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16. Pi | NAPA with Bryan Dosono
21 Plays28 days ago
Dr. Bryan Dosono visits Ethocast to discuss APIDA fraternities and sororities as well as the National APIDA Panhellenic Association (NAPA). He talks about what attracted him to Greek life, what sets Asian, Pacific Islander, and Desi American fraternities and sororities apart, and where he sees NAPA going.
About the Guest
Dr. Bryan Dosono joined Lambda Phi Epsilon at the University of Washington in the fall of 2008. As an undergraduate, he served as president of his fraternity chapter and president of his Greek council. During his doctoral studies at Syracuse University, Bryan established a handful of new chapters across Upstate New York while volunteering on his organization’s International Board. In 2020, he was elected to lead his fraternity as International President and now serves as the Executive Chair of the National Asian Pacific Islander Desi American (APIDA) Panhellenic Association.
Outside of Greek life, Bryan scales user experience research practices in consumer technology. He applies human-computer interaction research methods with visual storytelling to modernize the design of global marketplaces and online communities. Bryan publishes award-winning research on decolonizing sociotechnical systems and actively expands talent pipelines across APIDA resource groups. Connect with Bryan on LinkedIn.
Ethocast is a "For Our Edification" limited series and is supported by Edify Ventures, LLC.
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Transcript
Introduction to APIDA Greek Life
00:00:00
Speaker
Let's talk a PETA Greek life, a PETA being Asian Pacific Islander Desi American. Let's talk about their fraternities and sororities with the National PETA Panhellenic Association, also known as NAPA. And we're going to talk to the executive chair, Brian DeSono on episode PI of Ethocast.
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to Ethocast, a podcast about sound leadership practices to boost life in college fraternities and sororities. I'm Eddie Francis, presenter of Followership to Leadership and the Black Greek Success Program, presentations designed to help Greeks become more effective leaders. On Ethocast, I'll share lessons learned from my college days, my career journey, and leadership research. Ethocast is a four-hour edification limited series and presented by edify adventures. This is Ethocast, leadership to the letter.
00:00:54
Speaker
Thank you for joining me
Eddie Francis on Leadership in Fraternities and Sororities
00:00:55
Speaker
on Ethocast. I'm Eddie Francis and I am pleased to have this guest because I reached out. I wanted to find out about organizations around the country and I want to find out about umbrella organizations, especially culturally based organizations.
00:01:08
Speaker
And I'm going to get to the bottom of this because when I reached out to Brian DeSauno, he requested to be on episode pie.
Brian DeSauno's Fraternity Journey
00:01:15
Speaker
We're going to find out in why, but he is actually the chair of the national PETA panhellenic association. Um, and a member also of Lambify Epsilon. b Brian, thank you for joining me on these. Okay. As man, how are you? I'm doing well. Thank you for any invitation, Eddie. I'm excited to be on this episode.
00:01:32
Speaker
All right. Why'd you want to be an episode pie? What is the significance here? I can't wait to hear this. Yeah, absolutely. So I, like you said, I'm a member of Lambda F. Epsilon. I joined my organization in the fall of 2008 at the University of Washington. And the way that we organize our classes is by the Greek alphabet. And I happen to be the pie class of my chapter. So in addition to loving math and loving pie as a dessert,
00:02:01
Speaker
that has special significance for me and it's always just really fun to celebrate Pi Day every year and to keep in constant contact with my class. You know what, Brian? If you went to MIT, I'm sure this would have much more meaning. you secondly i I actually have a ah a good friend, a good colleague, Jen Lee Fowler, who does social media for MIT. And she talks about how it's a big day at MIT every single year, five days. But you're a Husky. You went to University of Washington. I've actually been on your beautiful campus before.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yes, yes. It's a beautiful campus and yeah and we have like really great cherry blossoms that bloom every year there. It's usually my favorite part of the year whenever I visit. Yeah, I tell you what, though, my legs was so sore because climbing stairs and hills and everything. I'm from New Orleans. Everything is flat. So that was a that was a new experience for me. And my my hamstrings have never forgotten it. So so let's start from the beginning um and let's talk about you. Let's get to know you a little bit. So what made you choose number one Greek life? But then also what made you choose your fraternity, Lambda Phi Epsilon?
00:03:11
Speaker
Absolutely. I love getting that question. And I always preface it by saying I'm the oldest of three kids in my family and my family within my family is a Filipino ah family. I'm a son of two immigrant parents. And as the oldest of three kids, I usually had to be that big brother growing up and providing guidance to my siblings. But I knew that entering college, especially a student body of 40,000 plus at the University of Washington, I was trying to find a network of support And I have heard about fraternity, sorority life, but my knowledge of, of FSL it was pretty limited to based on what I saw in the media. So I ended up wanting to just do my own research and explore these types of organizations for myself. So my very first week on campus,
00:04:02
Speaker
University of Washington, like many universities, have registered student organizations that table or that get to connect with new students on campus. I had the awesome opportunity to explore a handful of different Asian interest fraternities at the University of Washington. And in getting to know a number of these organizations, I just really felt the camaraderie between the brothers on land for Epsilon, very resonant with what I believed in And what I saw as complimentary to my growth as a student, many of the gentlemen in Lambda's back then, and even to this day, I think we're just very contrasting in terms of a wide array of personalities. And I did not want my high school experience to be an exact replica of what I was going to see in college.
00:04:52
Speaker
So I think the diversity of personalities within that chapter also made it very intriguing for me to learn a bit more. So I think in in exploring my options and just getting to know the the members of the chapter, that was what really, I think propelled me to move forward with Greek life and look at Lemtra Epsilon as a way where I can receive that mentorship, particularly as someone who doesn't have parents who went to college.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah.
Cultural Fraternities and Belonging
00:05:21
Speaker
Okay. So just so we can level set here, a PETA, Asian Pacific Islander Desi American, right? That's what that means. And so were you surprised to see Asian fraternities?
00:05:34
Speaker
I was surprised to learn that there were cultural interest organizations in general. So I saw historically or traditionally white fraternities and sororities portrayed in media. And I never saw the cultural aspect or or cultural counterparts reflected in media. So at the University of Washington, when I did see students who looked like me in these ri Greek letter ah greekla attire I think that really piqued my interest. And you said it yourself, like, you know, Napa, the National Asian Pacific Islander Panhellenic Association is an acronym within an acronym. And back then, the council was still relatively young. So my knowledge and and what I could even find about Napa was pretty limited. And that's what really made me
00:06:28
Speaker
talk to these members myself to get that firsthand information to really understand what these organizations were about. Did you feel that that sense of belonging really did it hit you right away when you became a brother?
00:06:42
Speaker
It really did because in America today, there's not a lot of spaces that are dedicated to discussing the Asian American experience. And there's not a lot of spaces outside of fraternities I feel do really well in discussing masculinity in general or what it needs to be a modern man today. And I feel that the intersection of Asian interest fraternities really is able to capture and lead that dialogue.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah. That's, you know, that is an interesting point because you, you, you really don't, you go through school and you have civics, you have American history, but you're right. I mean, the discussion about the Asian American experience is one that is pretty limited and not, and I can, I can say that it, there was a lot of stuff that You know that we would wonder we would ask about ah and and you're right like that stuff just is just never really came to the surface um about how the Asian American experience has gone you know ah ah throughout history i mean you hear bits and pieces.
00:07:46
Speaker
um But you're right, I think that's a great point um that you that you make there. So um talking about NAPA itself, how many organizations are we talking about that are members of NAPA? And I have a second part of that, but how many organizations are we talking about?
NAPA and Its Cultural Roots
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, Napa currently has 18 member organizations, 10 of which are sororities, eight of which are fraternities. Oh, wow, okay, that's so pretty. And if that break down further, eight of them had roots to South Asian identities.
00:08:17
Speaker
Really? Okay. Oh, that's pretty cool. So you said, uh, 10 fraternities and eight sororities. 10 sororities, eight fraternities. Okay. All right. All right. 10 sororities, eight fraternities. And then when you talk about what distinguishes a PETA organization from other organizations, what are those distinctions look like? Yeah. I think when we look about, when we think of Asian cultures from diaspora in general,
00:08:41
Speaker
You can think of Asian cultures as very collectivist, meaning the priorities of the groups who perceive that of the individual. This is already reified in collectivist cultures like military life or fraternities in general. So when you add another layer of like collectivism, you really enter this hyper-collectivist space. And that comes into practice in a number of ways in Asian Greek life.
00:09:05
Speaker
there's still this deference to older members just because in a lot of Asian cultures, there's that familial respect where you have to respect your elders. And sometimes you know that conflicts in the ways that we educate our members to ah in interact with alumni who might have outdated mindsets. So you have to contend with you know messaging that international boards have to communicate in you know the modern landscape of advising and how we are consistently consistently educating our alumni members about you know here's how we are really educating you know this next generation of leaders among men. Here's what we're doing to ensure that we'll be around on college campuses for the next century. So there's a lot of implications of hyper-collectivist norms like you know respect and even
00:09:54
Speaker
ah how they are understanding familiar structures and hierarchy ah that we are, we're still educating ourselves on today. How do you navigate campus life and stay true to the values of Asian culture? Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Many of our memberships, I think are in different phases of their journey as an Asian American. We know that some of our members come from immigrant parents, others have been here for
00:10:30
Speaker
either two generations or three generations, and that discrepancy in terms of where they are ah makes it so, you know, some students still have their mother tongue and can read, write, and speak in their parents' language. Others who have been in America for quite some time have either, you know, assimilated to American values or might not have an emphasis of learning more about their culture. And I feel that many torpedo organizations are doing are partnering with cultural institutions ah that help cement that heritage and can continue to reinvest in what it means to be mindful of a pita culture and to have discussions about ah what it means to be a leader within this space. And I think every year, especially us as NAPA, we recognize a lot of these programs that different chapters put on.
00:11:27
Speaker
as a way for them to you know innovate with the internet or as a way for them to showcase how they're adapting to current societal trends like the pandemic to make belonging and connecting this still a priority while adhering to cultural values.
00:11:43
Speaker
The views expressed on Ethocast do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts, guests, or any entities with which this podcast's participants are affiliated. Questions, comments, email eddie at eddiefrancis.com. That is so fascinating. I mean, we we we have these discussions all the time in black Greek letter organizations as well. and but In our case, you know you have this dilution of of African culture because of the history of Black folks in America. So we we are constantly wrestling with where where is our where is that sweet spot of our culture that we can continue to express? And yeah I think it comes out in Stepping. um I think a lot of it comes out there.
00:12:27
Speaker
But then when you get deeper into conversations and and I love that you brought up what the view of leadership might be. I think for us in NPAC organizations, that's what we try to that's what we kind of try to identify constantly like.
00:12:43
Speaker
What does leadership look like for us? If we really were to if we were really dig into the roots of our culture and and the diaspora and that sort of thing. So that's got to be a fascinating conversation, um especially for the members and especially figuring out how to meld it with with Greek life itself. um You're listening to Ethocast. I'm Eddie Francis. And we're talking to Brian DeSineau. He's the chair of NAPA, the National APITA Panhellenic Association. And we're talking about APITA fraternities and sororities, APITA being Asian Pacific Islander Desi Americans. So um speaking of this of this of this culture class, one of the things we deal with in Black Greek life um is we have this criticism from our fellow Black folks
00:13:34
Speaker
and and the ones who are not in fraternities and sororities, actually it it happens even in my own family where you have people who say, well, aren't you really selling out by copying, you know, Greek traditions and that sort of thing. And, you know, Brian, I got to tell you, my response to that is always, well, you know, we're not sitting in frat meetings eating baklava or anything like that. um You know, when we do, when we do service projects, the first place we go is a black neighborhood nine times out of 10 or a black church. But
00:14:06
Speaker
As far as APITA members are concerned, are there similar conversations that happen in in Asian culture? Yeah, absolutely. I think a very, ah a critique that I hear from Asian student organizations on campus are that Asian interest organizations, Asian fraternities and sororities may have very similar structures
Criticism and Challenges Faced by APIDA Organizations
00:14:30
Speaker
to traditional, traditionally white fraternities and sororities.
00:14:34
Speaker
yeah and It's funny because it's these exact same Asian student organizations are adopting you know this big little mentorship structure. They're coming out with paddles of their own. They are wearing paraphernalia with the name of their Asian student organization. So I think it's you know a hypocritical conversation to have. But I could totally see you know why that would be their knee jerk sort of observation. And what I think our organizations are doing well is they're in today's day and age, I think our organizations do a really good job with educating every member who gets initiated into the organization about the history of why our organizations were founded, yeah the importance of of partnering and supporting Asian owned enterprises and minorities owned businesses. um And I think that our
00:15:27
Speaker
fraternal organizations within the Asian American community do that in spades. And I would posit, you know, do that um in higher rates than any typical Asian interest student organization would. um I think that ors our organizations have really strong institutional memory that is embedded in a fraternal structure, that Asian organizations that might have high turnover ah may lack. So even yeah despite that criticism, i I still think that our organizations are able to reconnect to a pita values while they're running their their chapters. And I think they're doing it in a way that has this level of sustainability and operational excellence that a typical Asian interest in an organization, for example, like a Filipino American Student Association or a Chinese Student Association may not have.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, I, my brother told me this story when he was in college, um, there was a group of guys he hung out with and they, you know, they just couldn't stand the Greeks, couldn't stand them.
00:16:36
Speaker
And so they all got together and they said, well, you know what? We're going to get together. We're going to form our own group. And so they said, yeah, yeah, you know what? We're going to get together and it's going to be our own kind of brotherhood. Okay. So first, first mistake. And then they said, yeah, you know what? As a matter of fact, we're going to call our ourselves us fire.
00:16:54
Speaker
and So we we use when you you mentioned that, I was sitting there thinking, okay, so this this is a thing. This is what people do when they when they get upset. But here's the thing that's really interesting to me. One of the first things that you mentioned about the distinction of Asian culture is the sense of collectivism.
00:17:15
Speaker
I mean, a fraternity or sorority, you can't get more collectivist than that on a college campus. So there's got to be, do people not see where that alignment works out? Yeah, I think from the outside looking in, it's really easy to critique fraternities and sororities because they just, you know, have their own rituals and they have sort of practices that differ from the rest of the student body. and and and And we could be a bunch of goofballs. Yeah. Ultimately, people join people and people want to associate associate with you know friends that have similar values. So I am always in the belief that anyone on any campus, you know, if they understand how to create their own student organization or join a student organization,
00:18:02
Speaker
um you can find belonging you know wherever you go. yeah The belonging that you'll get though in a fraternal organization is gonna look completely different than what you'll find in organizations that have lower barriers of entry. Yeah, yeah. So I wanna dig it a little bit more into what leadership looks like among a PETA or organizations. And so when you take a look at those distinctions in your thoughts,
00:18:32
Speaker
What do the leadership behaviors look like? or What kinds of tradition traditions are different than other organizations? Yeah, most
Volunteer Leadership in NAPA
00:18:40
Speaker
of the 18 organizations within NAPPA right now are still very much volunteer run. The exception of three that is like Alpha Kappa Delta Phi sorority, Sigma Beta Rho fraternity, and Lambda Phi Epsilon fraternity. These three have executive directors that are paid to do what they do. But For the most part, many NAP organizations are still in their infancy in comparison to the rest of the ah fraternal ah paternal Greek life ah that have organizations that have been around you know for over a century. So I think because a lot of these organizations are still volunteer run, they're still experimenting with modalities in terms of how they are governing their members, how they're educating members on
00:19:25
Speaker
key issues of the time and how they are growing across different campuses in North America. I think many of these organizations are doing a good job with educating their their leadership or their headquarters through, ah you know, nowadays a lot I see a lot of hybrid sort of leadership summits, but I think when it comes to ah the the way in which we work as a coalition, we're able to look at NAPA as a vehicle that brings all of our members together annually. And we, I think through training are able to share, you know, best practices and really look at approaching problem solving, not from a mindset of deficit, but one from abundance. Because I think if we were to look at like the Asian Greek life landscape a decade ago, there was unnecessary competition among already, you know, I think the the
00:20:24
Speaker
The frame of thinking a decade ago was there's only so many Asian student organizations on campus, which means they're competing for XYZ resources in a limited amount. But I've now been seeing that you know the collaborative approach is one that introduces optionality across different campuses. Students are happiest when they get to join the sorority or fraternity that best aligns with their values instead of sticking with the default one on campus. And we're seeing that The collaboration piece also makes it so that the sole Asian sorority or the sole Asian fraternity on campus isn't complacent in what they do. I think the the friendlier competition that comes out in JEST makes all of our organizations perform better. So I think when it comes to like leadership trends, we're seeing more of of this collaboration between our member organizations nowadays than we did a decade ago.
00:21:23
Speaker
that's ra saw That's actually, it's got to be exciting though. It's got to be really, really exciting for you, someone who's leading this ecosystem right now to watch all of this develop. Are there things that you see that really kind of get you to kind of geek out maybe a little bit ah to say, okay, wait, wait, here's what we can do. And and you you kind of throw something in there to to bring people along?
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if I were to rewind back, you know, two decades, so Napa was founded in 2005. So we're not even 20 years old. Oh, really young, really young organization. course if i be full The driving force the behind why we were founded was the 2004 presidential election. And the 2004 presidential election was one of the very first times all of our that the collective Asian Greek community, you know, band together to show our political power at the polls through voter registration. Wow, that is dope. Okay. yeah but It was a nonpartisan event that will be partnered with API a vote, which is ah still an active partnership that we have today, to really, you know, showcase to political decision makers that they should not be ignoring the Asian American vote. And now, you know, two decades later,
00:22:42
Speaker
ah It's a different political landscape of course, but all of our organizations are rallying behind the importance of voter registration. yeah And they're you know doing that through educational workshops at their own college campuses, as well as, you know, looking at the the values of candidates who are ah running today. So I think that <unk> it's an exciting time, and especially because it's an election year, we're seeing a lot of energy that, you know, effervesce from the summer and as we're especially we're heading into the fall of our organizations continuing to educate the broader Asian American community about the importance of
NAPA's Vision for the Future
00:23:20
Speaker
civic engagement.
00:23:22
Speaker
So let's talk about your vision, man. So as someone who has the opportunity to sit at the head of an organization that is not even 20 years old yet, um, where would you like to take Napa? What does your dream look like during your term? Yeah, absolutely. I've been able to lead a strategic planning meeting with my current board and we've looked at,
00:23:48
Speaker
two different spectra, one of which is you know our execution ah towards our, ah you know, the execution and our actual vision for where we see NAPPA, you know, in the next 20 years. And then we're also looking at at at this from a lens of ah what can we do internally to bolster the membership that we have and how can we continue to stay relevant externally to the broader Asian American community and the members that we serve.
00:24:16
Speaker
And when we map this across like a two by two quadrant, we're able to come up with these four key priorities that Napa is going to be working on as we march toward our vice-senial or our 20th year anniversary next year. So, you know, one of those one of those priorities is longevity. We really want to continue having Napa as a brand that's closer to college campuses. Right now, we serve primarily the headquarters of the attorneys and sororities in the APITA movement, but we really want our undergraduates to feel more closely connected to the NAPA brand. And we feel that strongly happens at NAPA councils ah at the local level. So in the immediate term, we'd love to onboard two more NAPA councils as we march toward our 20th anniversary. And we're going to continue with this priority of of maintaining our legacy as NAPA, where we're going to continue to host voter registration drives with our partnership with APIA Vote.
00:25:17
Speaker
We also want to really focus on legitimacy and there, i especially as a researcher ah in my day job, I think this is where we have a lot of opportunity to continue to create resources and to amplify public scholarship about our community.
00:25:35
Speaker
most of the research bought about Asian Greek life has been written by a white sociologists. So we really want to take this opportunity now that we have a ah new generation of APITA scholars to reclaim that narrative. And then lastly, ah we also want to make sure that we're able to celebrate the milestones that have carried us to this day. And levity plays a very big part in that. And I'm really hoping that come our 20th anniversary next year, we'll be able to showcase at our annual meeting all of the great things that our organizations have been able to accomplish as a collective. Oh man, that is so cool. If anybody wants to find out more about NAPA, how can they do that? Yeah, they can find out more about NAPA through our website at nappahq.org.
00:26:20
Speaker
All right. That information is in the show notes. And then also information about Brian is in the show notes as well. Brian, the sono. Thank you so much. He is the chair of the national PETA panhellenic association, man. Thank you so much for joining me on etho cast. It was really cool to find out more about what you do and what a PETA organizations are doing. Thank you for having me. I'd be grateful for this conversation.
00:26:43
Speaker
Ethercast is a four hour edification limited series. If you like what you heard, like and follow this podcast for more leadership insights for your fraternity or sorority chapter. To find out how you can bring followership to leadership or the Black Greek success program to your campus or a campus near you, email today, eddy at eddyfrances.com. Until next time, spread brotherly and sisterly love wherever you go.