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Exploring the content creator industry with Caroline Winkler
2.1k Plays1 year ago
Today on the show we spoke with Caroline Winkler. Caroline is first and foremost a YouTuber, and we talked about how her channel has grown and how that growth has helped encourage her to take more risks and experiment more with her content. We also talk about her brand new podcast with Jess DeBakey, Not For Everyone and play a round of Office Décor Smash or Pass.
Check out Caroline's channel at https://www.youtube.com/@Caroline_Winkler
Watch her video on YouTube about 'What I Eat in a Day' content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZxMxq85-nI
...And the Holiday Décor Smash or Pass episode that inspired our game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvwN3_UbQdM
Listen to Not For Everyone at https://podcasts.apple.com/bg/podcast/not-for-everyone/id1658791276
Subscribe to the Content People newsletter at https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
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Transcript
Introduction of Guest: Caroline Winkler
00:00:09
Speaker
Hey, everyone, and welcome to Content People. Tune in to hear from creatives, leaders, and experts in various media. I'm your host, Meredith Farley. And I'm the show's producer, Ian Servin.
00:00:19
Speaker
Hey, Ian. OK, so today's episode is with Caroline Winkler. I love Caroline's work, and I was so glad when she was down to talk to us.
Caroline's YouTube Journey and Evolution
00:00:28
Speaker
Caroline's first and foremost a YouTuber. Over the past few years, her channel has grown a lot, and she now has more than 400,000 subscribers. Caroline also just started her own podcast called Not For Everyone, which we talked about a little bit on the show.
00:00:42
Speaker
When she started on YouTube, her focus was interior design videos, and that's how I found her. But over the past few months, she started to branch out into more personal content, and her following, me definitely included, is really, really here for it. I've learned a lot about interior design from Caroline through her videos, but I have also really, really admired her approach to content and how she's built out her own very authentic and unique brand.
00:01:10
Speaker
Absolutely.
The Role of Authenticity and Community Building
00:01:11
Speaker
And I feel like that authenticity is so key on YouTube. And we spent a lot of time talking with Caroline about how important that community building aspect is on the platform and how her content has changed over time and how it's focused on building that relationship with her viewers who have given her
00:01:28
Speaker
permission to be more experimental and really create a lot of different types of content to follow her own interests and passions while ultimately still keeping that original audience and growing that connection over time. Yeah, she shared so much. We had a really great conversation. We hope that you enjoy.
00:01:52
Speaker
Hi Caroline, thank you so much for doing this episode with me. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored and delighted. I'm a Caroline super fan, so it is a pleasure for me. So our plan is we're going to talk about you getting a little deeper behind the scenes around your channel.
00:02:09
Speaker
and talk about your new podcast, Not For Everyone, which I listen to and really love. And then if we get to free Smash or Pass on Office decor, which was inspired by your Smash or Pass holiday decor video, be like, loves. Sounds good. That sounds great. So for folks who aren't familiar with you or your YouTube channel, could you tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do?
00:02:32
Speaker
Sure, yeah, I keep having to change my elevator pitch because the channel has changed a lot since I started. But I started a YouTube channel just about two years ago, and it started with all
00:02:49
Speaker
kind of DIY interior design content. I had really just an amateur interest. That was the content I was watching on YouTube all the time. And I was like, after watching it for a while, I was like, I think I could do this. I think it would be fun. And that's how my channel started definitely with interior design. And
00:03:11
Speaker
Then I realized there are so many other things I cared about sharing on YouTube, and so it's really transformed. It's a little bit of lifestyle stuff now. I kind of do some video essays these days, and those changes, they happened organically, but
00:03:32
Speaker
Ultimately, I think it might seem like a wide spectrum of content on the channel now, but it captures me pretty well, mostly because interior design was the fourth career I had. It's what I started YouTube with, but it was maybe the thing I know least about in the world. So it's funny that I've had to backtrack out of that a little bit, retaining some design, but mixing in all these other things I care about.
Engaging Content and Audience Interaction
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of hard to disagree with those people. I once ran into a viewer and she was like, oh, I love your YouTube channel. I ran into her on the street somewhere. And then I was with another friend who didn't even know I had a YouTube channel. And she was like, oh, what is your YouTube channel about? And I was like, I turned to the viewer who I just met. I was like, I don't know how to describe it. What would you say? And she was like, it's just vibes.
00:04:26
Speaker
I feel like I have a lot of questions off the back of that because I do think that's a really interesting part of the channel. And I feel like people, me included, are really as much fans or more just fans of you as they are your content. So what does that feel like and how does knowing that impact what you decide to create and share?
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. I do feel like there are two main ways, two very broad buckets, I guess, that creators go in general, probably on most platforms. One is like,
00:05:03
Speaker
viewers are there for the idea behind your content, the information, that's a lot of tutorial stuff, or whatever that is. And then the other, I guess, is more relationship-based, and I think I started as one, and I've become the other. But it took time. I was definitely afraid starting out. I wanted to bring more of my personality to videos for a long time.
00:05:32
Speaker
Before I actually did, I was scared to. I thought people, they're just here for the interior design. I get it. They don't know me. And when you start out making any kind of content, people don't know you. Why would they? You're not their friend. So I think it is important to start with more of an idea, more objective value. But I wanted to start making vlogs. There are so many other things I wanted to share and I was really afraid to make that transition.
00:05:59
Speaker
And then I kind of accidentally got permission from viewers. At one point, I made a video about apartment hunting. And it was related to design, but it was definitely the most personal of my videos up until that point. And then people started commenting like, do more vlogs, do more of that. And it was such a funny moment because I'd wanted to do vlogs.
00:06:22
Speaker
for so long, but felt like I couldn't or people would reject it or no one would watch. And then there's this funny moment of getting permission. So that was like the big turning point where I think I started bringing more of myself into videos and there are a bunch of, there have continued to be
00:06:42
Speaker
different milestones with videos where I'm like, I have no idea if people will watch this. I have no idea and we will see because it's so different from everything else. But ultimately, people talk about niches a lot with content and I do think that
00:06:59
Speaker
the niche is probably more like who your audience is and not just interior design. Because if I think about me and my friends who like interior design, a lot of them also like a bunch of other stuff. They also are into therapy. They also are into fashion. I don't do fashion, but
00:07:19
Speaker
They also are into exercise. So like those subjects seem very different, but the people who watch them, usually, you know, we don't just have one interest. So I kind of go by like if I'm really interested in it and I think I actually have something valuable to say about it, then I think someone out there will watch it. I think enough people in my audience will watch it. And that's kind of how I define like the niche now, if there is one.
00:07:47
Speaker
That is really interesting. I feel like a question I kind of and for later, you're actually answering. One thing I was curious about was, I really appreciate about you and the work and ideas you put out there is that it doesn't seem to me like you're putting yourself in a box. You let yourself be an actress, a UX designer, a YouTube content creator, a podcaster, talk about working out, writing poems, and you make great content about interior design.
00:08:15
Speaker
And you kind of seem to let yourself be all of those things instead of at least from the outside seeming to feel pressure to define yourself as one thing so that you can then market that one thing. And I was wondering, do you think I'm sure to define a Caroline Breer?
00:08:33
Speaker
Not like maybe no, and you feel like your audience has kind of embraced you. Your audience is probably a demographic, and so you're free to talk about whatever seems of mutual interest about you and that, right? For the most part, I guess there probably is some kind of brand. This sounds so cheesy, but I do think
00:09:00
Speaker
I hate using the word authentic, but like it's like compulsive honesty. It's like compulsive confessions. And I think that's, I feel like as often the through line, even if the topic changes, just me like compulsively sharing what I actually think, whether those thoughts are flawed or embarrassing or exploratory, or I don't know what the answer is, I do kind of think that's,
00:09:28
Speaker
the through line that brings people back based on kind of what I read in the comments. I would never have guessed that, but that's what I've come to learn and that's also who I am. So it's not a brand in that like I've created an alter ego, but I do use that kind of as the guiding principle, which maybe that sounds really vague. But I will say of all those different parts of me you named, there's one or two in there that don't have a big part on YouTube, for example.
Balancing YouTube with a Full-time Job
00:09:55
Speaker
I probably
00:09:57
Speaker
I mean, I had a more legitimate career as a web developer and UX designer than I ever did as an interior designer. I worked for interior designers and I had clients on my own, but I really have more experience in software development. And yet, I don't think I have anything interesting to say about it. I don't think my audience really cares. I don't think I have a particular talent to bring there. So that is one thing where I could bring it
00:10:26
Speaker
to the YouTube channel more, I guess, but that's something that I kind of draw the line at because I'm like, I don't really think I have anything special to say, even though people do sometimes ask for those videos. So that's kind of how I sort through things. Like, do I have something genuine and maybe new to say, whether it's well-informed or not?
00:10:50
Speaker
That makes sense. Well, I'm glad you brought up the UX there because until fairly recently, you were balancing both the channel and your career in tech. How did you manage that balance? And do you have advice for creators who are still straddling a full time day job and rewarding but time consuming creative work on the side?
00:11:10
Speaker
I definitely have opinions, yes. I will say that I feel like I've done all versions of this. I've pursued a creative career when I was an actor, and all the pressure was on that. All of my income had to come from that, or I had to figure out out of nowhere how to pay my rent.
00:11:34
Speaker
that I don't recommend because it just puts a different kind of pressure on the passion and this precious thing you kind of want to protect and you want to give a very like pure kind of energy to. As soon as you have the pressure of relying on it for income, it can really warp things and kind of get in the way of you, I think, making
00:11:59
Speaker
what the best thing that you can make. So then later, yeah, I was working my tech job and it was very time intensive to balance that with YouTube. I did both for about maybe a year. I did both for a year. I will say
00:12:22
Speaker
Full disclosure, I was working 90 to 100 hour a week. It was very difficult. And also, I think it was the best thing for me to do for a short period of time because it took that pressure off of YouTube needing to provide an income immediately. I just had the chance to explore and do what I loved. And if you're creating content, I do think if you don't love doing it,
00:12:52
Speaker
you're going to be really tired because it's tiring. I think it was helpful to protect it as something I loved and something I was having fun exploring. At the same time that year, I barely saw my family, I barely saw my friends, and that really weighed on me. I felt honestly pretty guilty about that. That was the biggest motivator to
00:13:18
Speaker
wrap that period up. But I knew there was an end to it. I knew it wasn't going to go on forever.
00:13:27
Speaker
And although, you know, you're really tired working those kinds of hours, it's also energizing. To me, I was so much more tired putting in 30 minutes in my software development work than working till 5 a.m. on a YouTube video. Like one is energizing and I would still be out, like I couldn't go to sleep, I couldn't stop editing because you care about this thing. So that is a great feeling. I think that's like really good feedback if you feel that. I think the key would just be
00:13:57
Speaker
For me?
00:14:00
Speaker
as kind of a perfectionist, it was really important to learn where I was happy to cut corners. And I cut a lot of corners in my day job. I like stopped, I kind of relinquished this need
Keys to YouTube Success and Creative Risks
00:14:10
Speaker
to be the absolute best employee. Good employee, I didn't want to let people down, but like, I don't need to get an A plus anymore, especially because I kind of intended it to end at some point. Where you can do the minimum without being a jerk.
00:14:28
Speaker
figure that out. And I think, yeah, just having kind of an end to the sprint in sight or knowing what those benchmarks are for you that you would be willing to quit, that you would be willing to cut down. I also
00:14:47
Speaker
talk to my employers at my tech job and eventually got on a schedule where I was only working 30 hours a week. So that was like they were really supportive. It was a culture where they supported people pursuing their outside projects or they supported parents who wanted to spend more time with their kids and things like that. So that was really fortunate. I know not every job will give you that, but
00:15:12
Speaker
It can't hurt to ask if there are things that, I don't know, to change your schedule or change your hours a little bit, to make that sprint a little more survivable. I just try to find those things. But it was a lot of work and I kind of disappeared from society for like a year, I would say. It's interesting and it makes sense to think of that as like an intentional sprint as opposed to just the reality you were living with at that time.
00:15:40
Speaker
But I mean, congratulations on making the full-time transition. You have had such tremendous growth in popularity. I think you have almost like 400K subscribers as of now, though every time I look, it's more. I think a lot of creators really dream about getting the kind of numbers and subscribers you have. Why do you think that the channel has been so successful for you? It's a tricky question. It's a tricky question.
00:16:10
Speaker
After, I will say, I think there are a lot of things I've done right, but also because I had previous careers where I was the same person, I had the same work ethic, I had the same quote unquote talent or offerings, and those careers didn't go anywhere. Those performance careers didn't take off. Because of that, I know that there is luck that comes into play. I know that working hard
00:16:38
Speaker
and thinking you have something to offer, it doesn't guarantee anything, unfortunately. So I am aware of that. I think there's luck at play for sure. And also, YouTube does seem to have a little more meritocracy to it. You can
The Personal Side of Content Creation: Privacy and Vulnerability
00:16:54
Speaker
look at the numbers and see when someone left your video, when someone stopped being engaged, and if you're willing to make those changes. I feel like I really did pay attention to those kind of metrics and analytics up top.
00:17:08
Speaker
figuring out how to pack as much value as possible into a video and make them tighter and tighter and just like really hard to click out of because you're feeling compelled. I think the first thing I learned was, yeah, just how to
00:17:27
Speaker
put what I thought of as value in every single second. And I think in my earlier videos, the value could be like interior design information. It could be a funny joke. It could be something that's visually aesthetically pleasing to look at like a montage or a DIY project or whatever. But like every moment had to be kind of packed end to end with one of these values. And then I think the other big thing is actually
00:17:58
Speaker
again, so lame, but I do say things or I've become comfortable slowly saying things on YouTube that I think a lot of people won't say or that is at least less common to say. And that to me is kind of like low hanging fruit because A, it's my genuine personality. I've always gotten in trouble for like saying things that upset people or that shock people. That's who I am. And B, YouTube,
00:18:27
Speaker
can be so censored and like YouTubers, everything can be so PG and so safe because it's the internet and sometimes it feels scary to say something risky.
00:18:40
Speaker
which means that if you are willing to say something riskier, not for the shock value, but because it's honest and you're willing to put it out there and people resonate with it, I think it stands out a lot more. I think in that way, it's kind of easier, that's to me like an easy way to stand out, but it does involve taking risk. And I feel like I've taken a couple risks, some that like have given me sleepless nights and sometimes they have good returns, sometimes they don't.
00:19:08
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. I mean, your videos are never ever planned. And I don't think as a viewer, I just appreciated that. I never really thought about the risks behind it. Like, are you comfortable sharing? What are some of the videos that afterwards you were like, or maybe before you felt like, I don't know about this one. Maybe I shouldn't have done it.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah, it can even be little things though. It doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking, like a really small one would...
00:19:39
Speaker
Yeah, this isn't mind-blowing, but I really debated over including my mistakes and my imperfections, even with interior design. When I started, there was definitely this pressure to present as an expert and present with authority. But I'm not an expert. I don't have any authority. Why am I doing that? And ironically, the thing people connect with more,
00:20:04
Speaker
If they're tuning into my channel for interior design help, they want to see a human figuring it out and stumbling through, and they want to see something they can relate to because that's how everybody feels in their home is like, I hung up this thing. I don't know if it's right. My grandma gave it to me. It's kind of ugly. That's reality.
00:20:22
Speaker
I got these curtains and they're like a foot too short and that looks pretty dumb, but I'm living on a budget and I'm going to deal with it." And letting even the interior design be a little less polished felt, it's so funny to say looking back, but it felt like I really had to, I was really worried that would discredit me, but I think it actually became a point of comfort for people and a point of resonance.
00:20:52
Speaker
And then they're probably, for me, one of the like bigger risks to me was probably in a more recent video, which was much more personal. And I was talking about eating habits and like what healthy eating means to me, completely unrelated to interior design. First of all, is anyone going to watch this video? I don't know. I did. Bless you.
00:21:20
Speaker
People watch it. I think it's actually, I think it's like one of the, my best performing videos recently. But again, I was like, is anyone going to, why would they, well, this has nothing to do with anything, but it was something I cared about. And it's actually, you know, everyone thinks about eating and their relationship to food. It's like a fraught conversation. And I personally have a very fraught relationship with it. And that, that conversation with my own
00:21:47
Speaker
difficult history. That was so stressful for me to talk about. I filmed this video kind of on a whim. I was just overcome with inspiration to film it. And then when I sat down to edit, I think I truly went insane. I was so stressed about it. I regretted the whole thing and I ended up being really proud of the video I put out, but it was
00:22:13
Speaker
a really difficult conversation for me. I had no idea if anyone would hear what I was trying to say, if anyone would watch, if they would attack me for it. I don't know. I have mixed feelings about that. That video did well. People were supportive.
00:22:33
Speaker
I got really positive feedback and it like cost me so much emotionally that I'm not sure I would do it again. So I don't know. Well, I watched that video. It really resonated with me. I absolutely loved it. We can link it in the shout outs and just like
00:22:53
Speaker
Sure. If someone, if anyone listening is curious and haven't watched it, it was kind of, I'd say the headline was kind of like calling BS on a lot of those, what you eat, you know, like bloggers or, um, celebrities giving their what they eat in the day journal essentially, which I think you made it. I mean, it's always like they only eat green juice and, or they eat like 5,000 calories and you're like, I don't think that's what you eat every day.
00:23:20
Speaker
I don't think either one is true. I just have so many things to say off the back of what you said, but just I'm trying to collect my thoughts on it. I am so interested in that final bit, which is that yes, it was successful and yes, it resonated with people, but you're also mindful of how much it cost you and you don't know if it was worth it. And I think that is fascinating and something that I love your perspective on that because I think there are a fair number of
00:23:50
Speaker
folks or creators who might say, but it turned out the numbers were good. So it was a black and white success.
00:23:57
Speaker
as opposed to this was this cause, you know, if someone, if you were like, you know, racked with anxiety for those days, what was that cost to you? And also when you're talking about the fact that you allow yourself to be imperfect in the videos, as opposed to presenting yourself and just be like, um,
00:24:23
Speaker
an expert who never makes a misstep. I feel like for me, that is what made them so accessible. And I feel like you are the only resource for interior design that I have ever engaged with that I actually came away feeling like I get it a little bit more, I understand it. And I think it's because you would talk through the practical, you talk through your thought process. And then when you did make a mistake, you'd show it, you'd be like,
00:24:50
Speaker
put the wallpaper up ahead of the molding or whatever. And I appreciate that because I feel like if I'm in the midst of those projects and I inevitably screw it up, I start to feel like, well, no one else screws this up. And my inner critic gets really, really strong. And then it's really demotivating. And I'll be like, well, f it. This room will never look good. I'm bad at this. Oh, yeah.
00:25:17
Speaker
And you are so good at, you know, you have a beautiful result, but the fact that you're so honest about sometimes not being sure about it or needing to sit with it for a while or like wishing you did things in a different order makes it more accessible.
00:25:32
Speaker
I also understand what you're saying because I think when I'm talking about management or leadership, sometimes I also am compulsively honest in a way that later I'm like, I shouldn't say that. So it is really, really hard. I don't know. I appreciate you sharing that. I'm really grateful as one audience member of yours that you do. But it's interesting to think of the cause that it has for you and I understand why you're saying there too.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah. I appreciate hearing all that so much. It's funny, I think. I spent so much time, when I was in my tech job, I spent so much energy repressing or trying to hide my insecurities and my self-doubt. That took more energy than anything. It was
00:26:26
Speaker
it took all of my energy and eventually I stopped. Eventually I would just, I stopped filtering it. I would just tell my boss how bad I was. I was just like, because it takes more energy for me to suppress it. Like I don't care anymore. And that didn't work well in that job, but the vulnerability
00:26:49
Speaker
it does work on YouTube. So I don't know, I'm familiar with that debate of like, okay, the honest truth doesn't have a place everywhere at all times. Like sometimes, sometimes you have to gloss over it a little bit to survive, but it's been, I think it's been pretty important for me to find a place where
Vulnerability vs. Self-preservation in Content
00:27:10
Speaker
that works. Cause it's like, I can't keep my mouth shut basically.
00:27:15
Speaker
Well, similarly, I have, and I'm curious about you, have you ever had experiences where you felt like in hindsight, you were glad that you were honest and vulnerable about something and actually may be proud of that it took a little strength to be that way, but you also then felt like someone kind of maybe, no, I'm just talking my own shit out, I guess, but I think vulnerability, people mistake for weakness. And then, uh,
00:27:42
Speaker
take a different attitude or approach and then I have to take some corrective actions and be like, just because I was open about hearing XYZ way does not mean that you are now in a position to treat me in that way. Does that make sense? A hundred percent it makes sense. I'm so familiar with that. I feel like I'm
00:28:01
Speaker
battling that, trying to strike that balance, not just in my work, but in personal life and relationships all the time. I'm so much more comfortable leading with my insecurities or my fears or my vulnerabilities.
00:28:18
Speaker
not every situation does deserve that from you. I'm actually way more comfortable leading with that, but not every situation deserves that. That's even something that I learned, I think, from YouTube, even though I would say that kind of vulnerability is like, if I have a product, that's the product.
00:28:38
Speaker
But I watched an interview recently with a YouTuber, Elle Mills, who I guess she was really big a couple of years ago. I hadn't watched her, but she was super smart.
00:28:50
Speaker
girl and she talked about... She also had built a YouTube channel, I guess, kind of based on her own vulnerability. I think she came out as gay in a video before she even came out to her family. That was how she came out, very vulnerable, raw stuff. And the videos performed so well and the success, blah, blah, blah.
00:29:14
Speaker
But she shared this reflection of being like, that was the biggest lesson I had to learn is that the Internet does not deserve all of your vulnerability all of the time, and having to learn to draw those lines. When she said that, I was like, I know that is the lesson I'm heading for. I know that is the lesson I'm going to have to learn. It just really resonated. So it's important to me, but like with the video I shared,
00:29:42
Speaker
about eating and eating habits that I'm kind of like, was it worth it? Would I do it again? Got great views. It's a big video, but I will no longer pursue
00:29:58
Speaker
any pursuit, like if it's going to deteriorate me. I already did it, actually. And that's the only reason I know I don't want to do it again. I did that when I was an actor, just pursued something till it completely, like there was very little left of me. I had left nothing left to give to family, to friends as a person. And I work really hard at YouTube. I would say,
00:30:22
Speaker
I work a lot and I work very seriously at it, but there is still a balance of I'm doing YouTube because I want it to fit into the bigger picture of me having a good life. If I'm deteriorated and I'm stressed and I'm upset all the time, that's not actually success. That's a really important thing to me now. Yeah. You come first even ahead of the numbers because the channels in service of you, you are out in service of the channel.
00:30:52
Speaker
Theoretically, I'm like, I don't get it right all the time. But that is the goal. I try to like recenter on that because I definitely get swept up in I'm totally obsessive. Like I'm obsessive with the numbers. It's a high. It's a drug. You're addicted to it. Sometimes like I put out my videos on Saturday mornings by Friday evening late. Like after a whole week of editing, I'm in the deepest, darkest editing hole. I'm like the most depressed like my low point in the week. And then Saturday morning,
00:31:21
Speaker
Oh, the serotonin flows in. You're getting comments and views and like I am high every Saturday morning, basically, without taking any drugs. And I realized it. I don't know. I just like noticed it a week or two ago. And I was like this. I wonder if this is even good for me, like the amount of like chemicals that are pumping through my body once a week, every Saturday this intensely. Yeah, I still chase it, but I'm trying to keep it. I'm trying to keep it healthy.
00:31:50
Speaker
Oh, that's interesting. And I also just want to go back to something you kind of said at the start of this question as well. I love what you said about basically allowing yourself to make a judgment as to whether or not you are required to be your most honest, vulnerable self in any situation. Because I feel like that's such a helpful thought because it almost, it takes
00:32:19
Speaker
it values discernment as much as it values authenticity and allows you to wave it to, as opposed to steal your words again, being compulsively honest. So I love that. I think that's really a great wisdom. And thank you. I'm going to use it. Yeah. It's really tough. I find it really tough, especially in
00:32:40
Speaker
you're more traditional work settings because so many people do show up with walls up. And so even if you're ready to be vulnerable and you're willing and ready to accept someone else's vulnerability, people can be in different places. I really do. I still struggle with figuring out where those lines are, but yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
Totally. And I don't know if this would be true for you, but I know for me, even in moments when I'm making a decision, I'm like, this prison has a wallop. I don't actually necessarily trust them. I still didn't actually feel guilty for holding back. Yeah, I think that's the compulsive
00:33:23
Speaker
I don't know what the word is, like honesty, integrity. No, because I think you can hold back and still have a lot of integrity. Yeah. But it's like, in me, because I relate to that feeling, it really feels like I have like a compulsive, confessional part of me. It's not healthy, it's not good. And I could, that's a whole other podcast where that came from. But yeah, if I was also,
00:33:51
Speaker
I never know if I should talk about this a lot, but I was also in like a really long-term romantic relationship where I was always
00:34:01
Speaker
I was taught to compulsively confess, basically. And it was pretty painful. And I think I've carried that with me a lot. And in some ways, I think it's really helped my YouTube channel and the work I do there. But it's also personally something I'm still having to undo. Yeah, I don't know.
00:34:23
Speaker
Well,
Introduction to Caroline's Podcast: 'Not For Everyone'
00:34:24
Speaker
I'd love to. I know you've got your new podcast called Not For Everyone. I listened to your several episodes and I loved it. I'm so scared to have more of your content in my life. I couldn't talk about it a little bit. I'd love to. I'm so delighted you listened to it. Yeah. The podcast I host with a co-host who is a dear friend of mine from back from elementary school. We've known each other for a long time.
00:34:52
Speaker
And it's an existential commentary podcast hosted by, we say, one hater and one lover, which kind of captures our different perspectives on the world. She's quite enthusiastic, and I would say she's the lover. And people describe me a lot as a hater. I don't know. I don't reject that.
00:35:13
Speaker
Um, but I also feel like it's more complicated than that. I just, I just have a lot of fat opinions. I have a lot of opinions and, um, I have a fun time with that, but I really started the podcast because I obviously love to talk, like look at me go to
00:35:30
Speaker
And there were so many more things that I wanted to say and share and explore that I really think do not have a place on YouTube. I like pushing some boundaries with YouTube, but there is also a limit. I won't just put anything up there. And I think people are still there for a certain kind of package.
00:35:54
Speaker
The podcast made sense. I also wanted like a separate business, a separate investment. I'm just always prepared for anything I do to burn and die, including YouTube probably one day. So this kind of like another investment I wanted to start and I wanted it to be more relaxed than YouTube. I'm way less.
00:36:13
Speaker
perfectionist about it. It's a conversational podcast with my dear friend. And we talk about all the things that I at least am processing in life right now. And I know a lot of my friends are, which is dating and career and these existential questions and relationships and self-development and discovery and therapy topics. And we both also have a history. In addition to having an interest in those topics, we also have a
00:36:41
Speaker
history in comedy. So I think that's like the spin we try to bring to it is tackling some heavy topics at times, but also like cackling half of the episode and being obscene and trying not to take it all too seriously. It's been a lot of fun. I didn't know how it would go. Podcasting is very new to me, but it has quickly become like the exact thing that I was craving in my life. Yeah.
00:37:12
Speaker
That's interesting. Why do you think you're putting a little less pressure on the podcast being perfect than you do the YouTube channel? Because I literally don't have the time to do it any other way.
00:37:27
Speaker
I mean, I still work seven days a week. So I was like, I don't have the hours to put more to it. I need it to be more relaxed or else it can't happen. And I also was just craving a different energy. I was craving a more relaxed, exploratory, casual,
00:37:51
Speaker
pursuit. The thing that I do think is hard about content creation, at least for YouTube, and I know most people relate to this, is that it's a hamster wheel. It's just nonstop. For me, by the time I put up a video, I am starting on the next video that day or I've already started on it. Sometimes I'm working on three videos at a time or more.
00:38:19
Speaker
There is never, which is crazy because if you're doing something creative, part of creation is like an incubation period or where you're thinking about it and the way my schedule works now, it is constant output.
Creativity and Avoiding Burnout
00:38:33
Speaker
You are constantly executing and I think that's how it is for most people, which is insane and that's why you get burnout because there is no simmering period. There's no incubation period.
00:38:44
Speaker
for this creative output, which is insane. It doesn't even work. It doesn't really work, which is why I think there's so much burnout. One of my goals this year is to take four weeks off. I don't know when they'll be, maybe a quarter, one a quarter, but four weeks where I'm not putting out a video,
00:39:09
Speaker
I'm not even going to put out a backup video I made, just completely unplug. And that's so funny because that seems impossible to do. I had to intentionally set that as a goal. But that's a normal number of weeks off to have from a job. That's a pretty standard number of weeks to take off. And it doesn't exist yet really with content creation. You have to fight for that and you pay a price. You pay a price, you might come back to
00:39:37
Speaker
lower views or lower numbers, like it's so hard to take that. But with the podcast, I was hoping to not get into that position by just keeping it really low effort. All our conversations are just like live conversations. We don't do too much work planning. And so that was important to me for that reason. Well, I hope you get those floor weights off. That sounds... Thank you.
00:40:01
Speaker
All right.
Office Decor Trends: A Humorous Take
00:40:02
Speaker
Well, should we move into office decor, match or pass? Let's do it. So maybe we can link it in the show notes, but Caroline did a really, really funny smash or pass holiday, holiday decor video, which inspired this. And so I found like eight things I think are kind of like basic,
00:40:26
Speaker
office decor from the last, I don't know, five or so years to get Caroline smash or pass take on it. And so, let's see. Number one, Caroline, what do you think about motivational wall art? Mostly up in meeting rooms. And the image we have says, don't say it's not possible. And it's like, oh my God.
00:40:50
Speaker
You know how to get me riled up immediately. I really do like, I would say most of the things on the list I like have medium feelings on. I hate this one. I hate it so much. First of all, I hate anyone.
00:41:06
Speaker
don't try to motivate me. I'll decide if I'm motivated or not, let alone like, I guess I'm thinking about the motivational word art in the context of like a day job, especially if I'm doing, if it's at my passion work, like you don't need to motivate me. I'm motivated. I'm there because I want to be there. But if it's at my day job, I reject this idea that I need to feel motivated. I'm motivated by
00:41:28
Speaker
my paycheck or maybe I like the work or maybe I like my coworkers or maybe it's a nice environment. Don't put more on top of it. What is this like overlord surveillance trying to get everyone to work harder? I'm so upset by it. I think if you want to motivate people,
00:41:45
Speaker
Like, you know, figure out first what motivates them. Maybe the thing that motivates them is a nice community at work, like something communal or having a nice workspace or getting different benefits or time off or like, don't motivate me with words about working harder. Who is motivated by that?
00:42:08
Speaker
It's also been like, this one, don't say that it's not possible is a terrifying maxim because you just, I picture a terrifying boss be like, don't say that it's not possible. And then everyone's like, okay, well, we can definitely do this by Friday. Thanks, Brian. Did you crack the whip? I'm motivated now. Amazing. Thanks, Brian.
00:42:30
Speaker
Oh, okay. So, hard paths, unmotivation. Hard paths. It's going to be a pass from me. What do you think about giant abstract artworks? The one I linked to here is the Dropbox Panda, which is kind of famous. And I think an important sub point is that these artworks have to cost more than most employees annual salary. It's bold. It's bold. Yeah, it's a bold statement.
00:42:59
Speaker
I would say if they were free, I kind of like them. I kind of like that. It's like a little weirdo mascot in the office and a talking point. I always felt there were certain weird quirks about a shared office that would almost become
00:43:20
Speaker
an inside joke for people in the office, whatever it is, whether it's a statue or something weird about the water fountain or somebody in the office, you have these inside jokes that unite you. So I enjoy that. But if you are putting
00:43:39
Speaker
a panda sculpture of this size and this much money in your office, you better have a super nice staff kitchen. It better be stocked full of the nicest foods. You better have the best break rooms and benefits. You're setting yourself up for something there. I'm going to say I'm not going to pass on it. It's a reluctant smash, I think. Reluctant. Did it smash? Okay.
00:44:08
Speaker
big artwork, well left your fashion like that. I have no eye on taking notes. I love it. For the quiz later, I'm going to quiz you. Your goals are very open opposites. What do you think? I like a mix. I like a mix, which is a very diplomatic answer of me, I know, but it's true. I think that, um,
00:44:32
Speaker
I think some of my favorite offices I've seen are ones that have the option for the communal seating, but then the option for private meeting rooms or private cubicles. Maybe they have glass doors so you can still feel connected. You can look out. That's my preference. I want to see that society still exists around me, but I don't want to have to talk to people. I don't want to hear what they're saying or be interrupted with their jit chat.
00:45:00
Speaker
Um, yeah, I think it's nice to have a mix give people the options and then it's also it can just like kind of
00:45:06
Speaker
I think re-energize you throughout the workday. Even when I'm working at home, I like to get up and sometimes I'm working on the couch, sometimes I'm working at the table. It can just give you a little fresh boost of energy to switch up where you're working. So I think it's nice to have a mix if you can pull it off. Yeah, I agree. So pass on, well, I guess we're pass on the balance between Cuba and Culver.
00:45:30
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. What do you think about brightly colored accent walls in meeting rooms? I've been in a lot of these meeting rooms. Yes. I love that you... I didn't even think of this as a pillar of office culture, but it so is, and I love that you called it. Yeah. I'm going to say pass, and it's so funny because
00:45:57
Speaker
I don't know why this, I guess the intention, all right, I'm trying to empathize. I feel like the intention is to breathe some life into the office, but why are we doing it by decorating like it's a kindergarten? It's like there's no other adult space that we decorate with these weird pops of bold.
00:46:15
Speaker
bright colors in this way by painting what the image you shared here is just a totally suicidal looking meeting room that happens to have one lime green wall. You haven't tricked me into thinking this is a fun place to be, just like painting the whole wall green. I think if you want to breathe some life into it, think about what actually
00:46:41
Speaker
feels like life to people. Maybe just put some plants in there, put some artwork, like artwork will liven up the walls so much more than just a bold color. And it also doesn't feel, there's almost something condescending about being like, yeah, it just feels like a kindergarten again. Like, why are we, you know, we're adult people who go to, you know, we enjoy adult restaurants and stuff. Like those don't have to be decorated this way. I'm going to say pass.
00:47:07
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Great. Yeah. The more you're talking on it, the more like, I understand that some of us really jump, but now it's like, something really like has hardened and depressing. It's like, yeah, color's meant to be. So we're being like, Hey, fuck up. It's not so bad, but you know,
00:47:24
Speaker
It's really sad. It's really sad. It's upsetting. It's insulting. It's a little bit. It's like you haven't tricked me. This still sucks. I was tired, but this lime green paint really gave me a second one. That's all I needed. Yeah. Who needs a salary? I'm here for the wall.
00:47:42
Speaker
All right. Holiday decorations on your desk slash cubicle office. And the picture I put is just when folks listening, someone went all out. They wrapped the walls, the counter, everything but their computer is highly decorated.
00:47:59
Speaker
It is. I'm going to say smash. I don't personally do it. I don't personally do it. But I like when people... I am a total sucker for the family feel, homey feel of an office, which it's hard to pull off. But if you can get people to bring in parts of their personality and have that family's feel, I think some people are really offended by that. They're like, this isn't my family. It's my job. And that's totally legitimate. But I like when people bring in
00:48:28
Speaker
a little piece of their personality and stuff. I'm not going to do it. You do it. I like when you do it. Smash. Yeah, I agree. I feel like it makes me think there's like a level of self-care that's like they had enough energy to do this for themselves for the month of September. And I'm like, I don't have it, but I love it. What is that like? I don't have that. All right. This is the opposite.
00:48:54
Speaker
displaying absolutely zero personal items and or exposure. So like a very, very minimalist, austere desk. Like, I'm not sure if that's really good boundaries or kind of psycho behavior.
00:49:10
Speaker
I think I have neutral feelings on this one. I respect it as a choice. I respect the boundaries, but it is less fun. It is less fun. I have to look at you for eight hours today? What are we going to talk about? Give me some peaks into your life. It's so funny the way you try and piece together the mystery of this person sitting across a desk from you that you look at probably more hours than you see your own family, but it's kind of a mystery.
Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
00:49:39
Speaker
Yeah, if there was absolutely nothing, I feel like I'd be very suspicious but captivated and like desperate for a crow. Like, nothing's so true. It's hooked you. Yes, yes. Give me a crow. It's compelling at least. Yeah, so if your goals would be super intriguing and mysterious, hard smash, you've done it, you've accomplished it for being fair to them. All right, so what about the giant Stendig style wall calendar?
00:50:07
Speaker
Is this one that people write on? Do people or people supposed to contribute to it as an interactive thing? No, not really. It's usually just up on a wall and it's like three feet by two feet or maybe size feet by three. It's usually really big and just the dates are looming over here. The dates are looming?
00:50:34
Speaker
Look at how many days we have left till we all die in this office. Yeah, that is so looping. That is so austere when you put it that way. I was gonna say, I was picturing people like, communally writing notes on it and stuff, which I guess that is not what it is, but I like anything that can
00:50:53
Speaker
which incur a little bit of like sass or interaction from the office. But if it's just up there, I mean, I guess you could put worse things on your wall. I'm going to allow it. I'm going to allow it. I'm going to say smash because you can put worse things on your wall, like a motivational calendar or something. Yeah, that's true. Okay. All right. Final one.
00:51:14
Speaker
I was always guilty of this back when I worked in and off. Having multiple pairs of shoes under your desk. So funny. I feel like this feels very similar to the going heavy on the Christmas desk decor. It's like you're making it a little bit of your home here. I like it. I like to see it smash.
00:51:41
Speaker
Good. I'm glad. Well, I feel like I didn't like it, but I did it and I...
00:51:47
Speaker
I don't know. It just makes sense. I'm trying to like, how does it even, like, where does the first pair come from? That's what I was trying to remember. It's like, it's because you cherry your heels in one day for a meeting, but you wear different shoes in because they're more comfortable. And then you just leave the heels under there because you're like, well, this next time I'll just have them here. I only wear them at work. And then it just like snowballs. And suddenly there's like 10 pair of shoes under the desk. And you've got the rain boots. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's how they get you.
00:52:17
Speaker
No way. Caroline, thank you so much. Is there anything that I didn't ask that you feel like you'd want to just want to say?
00:52:29
Speaker
Um, I don't think so. I had, I had so much fun chatting. This was a lovely, I love talking about this stuff. I feel like YouTube, first of all, it just feels like the Wild West, like people are just making up their own strategies and there are kind of no rules. And I love talking about it and hearing other people's approaches. And this was just like a delightful conversation to have with the
00:52:53
Speaker
very thoughtful person. I loved every second of it. Thank you, Caroline. Well, I hope that folks listen and like this too. I think you shared a lot of great advice. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us this week. We had so much fun having Caroline on the show.
00:53:11
Speaker
Next week, we're going to be talking with Steve Ward. He is an executive search consultant, and we're going to talk to him about building a career in marketing and how to navigate the current world of uncertainty, but also opportunity. If you like the show, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe in your podcast app. That really helps other folks find the show. Also, consider subscribing to the Content People newsletter. The link is in the show notes. And that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to get in touch, our email is in the show notes.