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S3E16 Kaitlyn Teer of Cup of Jo and Big Salad
228 Plays4 months ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Kaitlyn Teer!
Episode Links:
Follow Kaitlyn here on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kaitlynteer
Big Salad:
https://joannagoddard.substack.com/
Cup of Jo:
https://cupofjo.com/
Priscilla Long's - The Writer's Portable Mentor: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-writer-s-portable-mentor-a-guide-to-art-craft-and-the-writing-life-second-edition-priscilla-long/10785213
Virginia Tufte - Artful Sentences: https://www.amazon.com/Artful-Sentences-Syntax-as-Style/dp/0961392185/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
Jess DeFino's Big Salad post: https://joannagoddard.substack.com/p/jessica-defino-favorite-things
Ashley C. Ford's Big Salad post: https://joannagoddard.substack.com/p/ashley-ford-favorite-things
Aimee Nezhukumatathil's post: https://joannagoddard.substack.com/p/aimee-nezhukumatathil-favorite-things
And Aimee’s books: World of Wonders and Bite by Bite
An August Big Salad Event in Seattle: https://www.siff.net/cinema/in-theaters/big-salad-comes-to-seattle
Meredith & Content People Links:
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Content People on insta: https://www.instagram.com/contentpeoplepod/
Subscribe to the Content People newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Email Meredith: [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:00
Speaker
Caitlin, thank you so much for doing this. For folks who don't know you, could you just give an overview of who you are and what you do? Sure. And Meredith, thank you so much for having me. I love content people and what you're doing here. I'm the senior editor for Big Salad, which is the weekly newsletter from Joanna Goddard and the Cup of Joe team. Each week we interview interesting people like chefs, designers, comedians, and writers about their work and their favorite things. And once a month, Joanna shares a personal essay about life and dating after divorce.
00:00:34
Speaker
Once a month, we also publish our monthly edit in which our team and friends share what they've been reading, watching, making, wearing, and into for the month. And I work remotely from Bellingham, Washington, which is a small coastal city between Seattle and Vancouver, BC. And I live here with my family. I have two kids. And they're a big part of my life and also a big part of my workday. I'm really excited to dig into the details around all of that. I've been a longtime Cup of Joe fan. Actually, this morning, think knowing we were having this interview, I was thinking about maybe eight years ago, my friend Lauren said something like, oh yeah, I saw that on Cup of Joe. And I was like, where? And she was like, Meredith, everyone reads Cup of Joe. And then I went home that night and read, I just got sucked into the beauty uniforms and I read a hundred of them.
00:01:32
Speaker
And I've been a huge fan ever since. So I'm so excited to talk to you. And the Big Salad Substack is
Career Journey and Responsibilities
00:01:40
Speaker
huge. I think you guys are one of the top substacks on Substack. Am I right? It it has been such an incredible journey to be on Substack. We have 130,000 subscribers. And I think last time I checked, we were the number one fashion review publication on Substack, which is just really exciting and unbelievable. How did you get into your current role? I'm really interested to know the career journey that brought you here today.
00:02:12
Speaker
I haven't always worked in media writing and teaching in the English department at Western Washington University here in Bellingham, which is where I got my MFA. It's what first brought me out here, I think about a decade ago. And shortly after graduating, I came back to teach undergraduate writing courses. And throughout, I've always had a variety of sort of part-time jobs and side hustles whether that's writing and editing for a literary journal or our regional lifestyle magazine or planning the writers conference for our local independent bookstore hosted in partnership with our community college or even sometimes more random work than that like working as a second shooter for a wedding and event photographer. for how I learned to edit photos in Lightroom and do graphic design in Photoshop. I've really just picked up skills that have been so useful for this job along the way. And two years ago, I was teaching and writing a column for Catapult and writing about books for Plowshares. Actually was on my second maternity leave when I saw that Cup of Joe was hiring a part-time editorial assistant.
00:03:31
Speaker
It was for like five to 10 hours a week for three months. And I thought, this sounds amazing. I can do that job. I have all of the experience. And then I came on as a contributing editor. And for a year, I was responsible for sending out our weekly newsletter using MailChimp. And then we decided to launch Big Salad on Substack. And it has been just a dream to be part of making our newsletter from the ground up. So cool. I also, I kind of love that such a successful sub stack. And I love this about Cup of Joe in general, which I think of as a really huge independent like force in the media. Like it's cool that you don't have a marketing background to me. It's not like
00:04:22
Speaker
There's nothing gimmicky about Cup of Joe. It's grounded, beautiful, thoughtful work, and it's really popular. And as someone who's in the marketing world, we're often like the messages are always like, these are the three hooks you need to build your newsletter to XYZ. I always find Cup of Joe to be such a breath of fresh air. And the fact that you're coming from this like very cool, artistic, creative and more literary background, I just absolutely love. And I think you can really feel it. Yeah, I think our work is so story driven. I do really think of Cup of Joe and now Big Salad as places on the internet that are
00:05:02
Speaker
warm and friendly and filled with curiosity and opportunities to connect. And um it's just a really beautiful space and so special to be part of it. I myself am a longtime Cup of Joe reader. And it's been delightful to work alongside Joanna and to learn from her and also to find that she is just every bit as kind and thoughtful and smart and funny as she comes across on the site in person. That's awesome to hear, but I'm not surprised. I don't think one could fake it for as long as she has. That but that makes total sense.
00:05:43
Speaker
Obviously Joanne is not an influencer, but like the influencers out there recommending things. There's a very kind of sometimes frantic, ungrounded energy. And I also appreciate how grounded a couple of Joe always is. And it' sorry, you described it perfectly, of course, warm, curious, friendly. So specifically, what work do you do for Big Salad? I'd love to hear the details. I work closely with the Joanna each week to develop, write, and design each week's issue. So that means everything from scouting for and pitching possible guests to interview,
00:06:22
Speaker
writing questions for and conducting interviews, scouting for photos and designing the graphics for that week's newsletter. Our graphic designer, Diana Moss, built out all of the templates for our newsletter in Photoshop and put together this gorgeous brand identity for us. And so I just build on that in Photoshop with different images each week. Since we're a small team, I also contribute to social strategy for Big Salad. And I pitch in on the Cup of Joe side sometimes. We've got an editor, Janelle Sanchez, who's just incredible and does a lot for Cup of Joe. And so sometimes
00:07:06
Speaker
I might be writing a few posts for Cup of Joe. That's so interesting. I think Big Salad has the most beautiful sub-stack aesthetic out there. I think you guys are showing how beautiful sub-stack can be. You guys really figured out how to make it look fantastic. And I think it's a great model for anyone who's trying to put together a sub-stack that looks nice but doesn't know how. I'd say take a peek at Cup of Joe's because it's so beautiful, just like the site always was. We are obsessive about the design. We really put a lot of care into making something really beautiful to brighten up people's inboxes. Well well done. and
00:07:44
Speaker
Also, that's cool. I didn't know you did any of the social, but I have to say, so my agency, Medbury, we focus only on LinkedIn, but we do ghostwriting for executives and we do brand work for brand pages. But I have actually used some Cup of Joe Instagram captions as great models when showing clients, like this is a really nice voice to consider. so Yeah. Are big salad socials really building on all of the excellent work that Joanna and Janelle have done on the Cup of Joe side? Behind the scenes, is there a huge editorial brief about the voice, and we never say this, we always say XYZ, or is it more intuitive? and Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I know, yeah, you're picking up something that's been there for a long time and probably
00:08:29
Speaker
making sure that what you write fits and in some ways furthers that, that voice. Well, I think it helps that I was a reader of Cup of Joe first. I feel like some understanding of the voice and the brand is intuitive just from being familiar with it for years. And then the rest organically comes out in the editing process. It just comes through in notes and conversations and just a developed felt sense of things.
Daily Routine and Creative Practices
00:08:58
Speaker
Oh, that's cool. That surprises me. I for some reason thought there would be like ah a five page, like always this, never this. So that's really cool. I have to say too, and I feel like now I'm just being such a Cup of Joe fan girl. But one thing I've always really admired is the softness of the CTAs. It's never a click to read now. if If you'd like to check this out, the link is here. And it's just such like a nice, I don't know, I always think that the Cup of Joe has always done like a really beautiful job with CTAs.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, the invitation is always so gentle. Yes, totally. So friendly because that's how you would talk to a friend. You wouldn't have a hard CTA if you were just chatting with someone like a coffee. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a helpful way to think of it. So what's a day in the life like for you right now? So I live on the West Coast. I work remotely. and tend to keep East Coast hours, which actually works pretty great for how my brain functions creatively. And it also serves my life in terms of just like practically and logistically for me as a parent of a five year old and a two year old. We've got a great preschool and my spouse also works remotely from home. So I have a lot of flexibility and support at home, but
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, typically I wake up at five, I have my coffee, I do some reading and writing. if I've got a creative project that I'm working on. I am a morning pages devotee and so I often fit those in. Even if it's not like the full three pages, I just try to get something down. And then I open up my laptop and get started. Any work that requires my focused creative energy, especially the verbal part of my brain I like to do first thing in the morning. So starting my workday at six is actually lovely for me. I um usually do an hour to an hour and a half before my kids wake up and then they come downstairs and I take a break and get snuggles and we read and have breakfast and then
00:11:13
Speaker
my spouse does the whole off-to-school routine and so I come back upstairs and get back to work. My two-year-old is in preschool in the mornings and so when he comes home I take another little break and have lunch with him and put him down for a nap and then he's sleeping so I do another hour or two of work and then my daughter and usually comes home from preschool at three and it's just like family time and then depending on what's happening both my life and my work I might when the evenings after the kids go to bed do a little bit of like non-verbal work like just emailing or graphic design where I can listen to a podcast or something while I'm making images and laying things out
00:12:00
Speaker
And it's just this like beautiful rhythm that works for me and works for the stage of my family life. It does sound like a really beautiful day. I'm also a morning pages person. And so I like that you give yourself grace and you're like, I don't always do the three pages. I'm like, where I stumble with them is if I get in the headspace that if I don't do three pages, it doesn't count. And then if I don't have time or feel the energy for it, I skip it. And so now I'm like, no, even if I write four sentences, that counts. When did you start doing morning pages? How long has that been a practice of yours?
00:12:36
Speaker
Oh my goodness, I feel like it has just been so long a part of my life. I probably at least a decade now? Maybe? And Julia Cameron, who wrote The Artist's Way, she even says this like in the intro, which is, I hear from people who are like, I do them until my life is going well. And then I stopped doing them. Kind of like, when I feel the need for them, I go back to them. And if you would just keep at them, It would be so much better. And I do phase in and out a little bit, but it is a really consistent grounding part of my life. I love it. Have you read her new book? I i don't think I've read that one. I've read the, what is it, The Listening Path? I haven't read that one. I'm obsessed with the idea of listening as a practice book.
00:13:28
Speaker
I'll have to check that out. I do some listening meditations, but when you say listening is a practice, what's the gist of it? What do you find interesting about it? I think it just dovetails with so many of my other interests, both like literary and creatively. Like I'm an amateur birder, like I'm not good at it. And so much of birding is like listening. It's not just looking for birds. And I think so much ah about like from a poetic standpoint, listening to language. And I think there's something about the practice of deeply listening to someone else, like almost in the Quaker sense of being listened to that is a really beautiful form of connection and so special. And so to give that to yourself and to your creative work,
00:14:22
Speaker
is a really lovely thing to do. Do you do meditation at all? Is that part of your practice? Not in a formal way. I do have the Insight Timer app on my phone and I quite like how It's got guided meditations, which is nice, but I also just like its simple timer that starts with the bell and plays some soft spa-like music. I also have the Channing Nichols astrology app on my phone, and she has these beautiful guided meditations that I like to listen to.
00:15:00
Speaker
I like when you're talking about your routine, the idea of verbal work and nonverbal work. I've never been able to define it that way, but I will moving forward in my own mind because yeah, writing, it's a specific type of work. If you're ever in a spot where you're doing a lot of writing, do you ever find yourself feeling really spent and exhausted? like
Writing Techniques and Inspirations
00:15:20
Speaker
What's your battery for that? Yeah, it's like my brain, it just like checks out at 8pm. It's done. And so that's where I don't always work in the evenings. It's definitely not expected, but it is nice for me to decide when that works for me.
00:15:40
Speaker
And if I'm in a season where I can't ebb and flow out of the verbal and nonverbal work, but it all just feels verbal. What's funny is I find I actually have to prioritize my body. Like it feels counterintuitive, but those are the times where I just absolutely have to go for a walk or I really need to like book a yoga class on the weekend or I love to mountain bike. shuts my brain down in a really beautiful way because you're just focused on like staying alive and staying on your bike.
00:16:14
Speaker
and It feels so good to just get into that flow where my muscles are working and so many different senses are working on the trail. And that in a way recharges the verbal part of my brain. It gives it just a break. And then of course, the other thing that helps fill up my battery for writing is reading always. There's nothing better than sitting and reading poetry or just reading something very different than what I'm trying to write, but that is still beautifully rightling written. It helps so much. Related, I remember in our like little prep call for this conversation, you talked about writing for sound and rhythm, which
00:16:59
Speaker
struck a chord with me. In my MFA program, I had the good fortune of studying with some amazing poets and also lyric essayists whose attention to the musicality of language was just superb. And so I read a lot of theory to support that work with language. And also just by and writing alongside of them picked up so many tips and tricks. So this is maybe me speaking more as a writer than an editor. But when I am writing,
00:17:39
Speaker
something that was a big unlock for me was paying attention to vowel sounds, not only to achieve assonance, which is like alliteration, but it's the repetition of internal sounds, but also because there's this thing called the vowel scale. Do you know about this? okay I want to know. Tell me. I read about it in Priscilla Long's book. It's on craft. It's called The Writer's Portable Mentor. And she has this whole section on the vowel scale. It's basically not only can you play with vowels in terms of how they're repeating throughout a sentence just to sound nice, but that the vowels themselves actually contain energy. And i we know this, right? It's intuitive. If you think about words like shriek and flee and be, those were exciting, high-pitched, energetically
00:18:37
Speaker
tense sounds. And then if you think about vowels that are lower on the vowel scale, like O and U, you think about moon and blue. And those are like just a different mood, a different tone. They are calming, they are soothing. um So it's just a fun thing to play with in terms of word choice. And you can get into the weeds with it as much or as little as you want to. Think of it as like a volume knob. You can turn the effect up or down as you want to, but it is just a little trick that the language does work that way on us. And so if you're choosing between like pebble, rock, or stone, and they're all like fairly similar functions, you can play with mood and tone in that way.
00:19:28
Speaker
I cannot wait to do a deep dive on this. How have I never known this before? I was a writing major. I was an editor for a decade. Oh my gosh. What was the name of the author, again, who wrote The Writer's Portable Mentor? Priscilla Long. She's a Seattle-based writer, and her book is called The Writer's Portable Mentor. And it's one of those things where it's just you need someone to spell it out for you, and then you see it everywhere. Something else that I really love about the sound and rhythm of language is called syntactic symbolism. And it just means that the syntax of a sentence, how it's structured, can perform its meaning. So if you are writing about a car crash and things are hurtling forward, you're using like lots of clauses that are running together and it just feels like the sentence is getting away from you.
00:20:19
Speaker
And there's like a cadence that comes from lists and thinking about the length of sentences and varying that in a paragraph to achieve whatever movement you want. What did you call that? I know it was syntax. Tactic symbolism. And if you really want to just go on a deep dive, Virginia Tuft has a book called The Artful Sentence, I think. She just pulls all of these examples from literature of different sentence structures that do different things. The one thing I would say, and this I think of all the time when I'm editing interviews and other people's writing,
00:21:01
Speaker
And Joanna and I have talked a lot about this where she has always done a version of this too, which is to just develop an ear for the ending of a sentence. And especially the ending of a paragraph or quote, you really want it to close. And it usually means editing so that way it ends on a strong word and not one that just trails off and leaves the reader without a feeling of conclusion. and I had a writer and mentor who said something like, you want it to feel like a bell that's been struck at the end of a section or a paragraph where it feels like there's this ending and then the sound just keeps resonating. I think we have our audio clip for the podcast. like you just I love that. I know exactly what you mean, but I'm so happy that you're defining this and giving these book recommendations because a lot of folks listening are
00:21:58
Speaker
create in the creative space, they might be writers. And I know from experience too that some of this can be really intuitive. And then if you're in a situation where maybe a client or a boss or someone else is editing your work and they change it in a way and you're like, I don't have the language for why that new version isn't right. Now in checking out these books, maybe some folks will have the language to say, there's actually a technical reason why we have to end with this clang. So I love that. Thank you so much. And I'm going to check these out and read them ASAP. Yes. It's so helpful to have the term for it, but also I know lots of writing teachers who, to make it more accessible to their students, they're like, let's come up with an in-house term for this thing. It doesn't have to be the fancy grad school term. As long as we know what we mean, when we say the end of the sentence needs to have a punch, like that does it for us.
00:22:58
Speaker
I really like that. Who are some of your other favorite writers? Who do you like to read? I find it so funny because I ask people about their favorite things all the time. And then when it's turned on me, it is this panicked feeling where you're like, a book? Have I ever read a book? I don't know. My mind just goes entirely blank. But I would say I gravitate toward lyric essayists and people like Rebecca Solnit and Leslie Jamison, Gia Tolentino. I just really love the essay as an art form.
00:23:38
Speaker
My favorite though, is when a poet turns into a prose writer. Like nothing excites me more when I hear that someone has come from poetry and is now writing prose. I love poetry, but for example, Amy Nasuku-Matatiel is a poet who wrote the book World of Wonders about the natural world. And it is ah so gorgeous on a line level. And she weaves in all of this deeply researched work about the natural world. There's a chapter on the axolotl and also a chapter on fireflies, so all of these different creatures. And yet it's also so personal at the same time and so much her story.
00:24:29
Speaker
I love that book. And so it was such a treat to get to interview her for Big Salad about her new book, Bite by Bite, which is about food and these different fruits, vegetables, dishes that are significant to her and her family. And it's just a beautiful example of how research and personal writing can go together. And it's just got the most amazing illustrations. Oh, awesome. um It's like a visually stunning book. I will definitely check that out. And speaking of nuance of language, back to what you said about listing your favorite things. I actually think here's where I made a technical blunder as an interviewer, because I've noticed if I say, what are a few of your favorite books to someone? It's so hard, right? If I say, what are a few books that you gravitate toward lately? You'll get the same answer, but the person will feel less.
00:25:29
Speaker
pressured or something. so That was super interesting. We actually encounter that all the time in our work. Oh yeah, I'd imagine you guys probably have a lot of tips for me. How do we put people at ease when they're being asked about their tastes and their preferences? like I just did an interview this week with an incredibly accomplished person. She said, when I opened your questionnaire, I just immediately started sweating. So I, of course, just wanted to put her at ease and was like, Whatever you say, we are going to love. Our readers are going to love.
00:26:05
Speaker
But that's the funny thing about asking people about their lives and their interests and hobbies and art and media that
Interviewing Insights and Techniques
00:26:17
Speaker
moves them. What show have you watched recently that you can't stop thinking about? Or what do you listen to while you're walking or while you're working? And how do you ah set the table when you're entertaining? And what do you play when you have friends over? and it it ask someone to share quite a bit about who they are. Like on the surface, it might seem to be about things, um but often it's a lot more um in depth than that. We interviewed Ashley C. Ford, the memoirist.
00:26:51
Speaker
And she and Joanna talked for quite a while at the front of the conversation about how Ashley's experiences growing up in a working class family and just her personal background meant that she felt like it was a superpower to not have preferences, to just go along, to get along. And so then she really had to endeavor in an intentional way as an adult to discover what it is that she wants and what she likes and to figure out how to ask for that and to assert that and
00:27:28
Speaker
how pleased she feels when she sits down at a restaurant and can look at a menu and know what she likes and what she wants. And that really moved me, and I think it speaks to the bigger picture of what we're doing at Big Salad. When we're asking people for recs, hopefully our readers encounter great finds and ah genius pro tips and things that will improve their lives, but hopefully they also just encounter another human in a deeply felt and meaningful way. I did read that, that send and I really identified with the interview myself a bit in some ways too. I'm still in the process of discovering what I really like and not feeling a bitch if I asked for what I like and what I want. And I think that's fascinating. And I love that as a lens through which to view Coppa Joe as
00:28:22
Speaker
a project and as a really cool entity out there in the world. Do you know the concept of positive regard? I think therapists have it for folks. It's almost like you guys have positive regard for your subjects, of course, who are very cool people, but also positive regard for the simple and more mundane details of life that are actually the majority of our life. And I feel like that comes through in the work. It makes sense that ethos is of interest to you all. I think one can feel it for sure. I just want all of that to be true. I love that idea of positive regard for our guests and for our readers too. And I think I have this deeply held belief in the power of sharing our stories. My toxic trait as an interviewer is that I just always fall in love a little bit with whoever I'm talking to. Like every issue, like, this is the best issue. I love this so much. And I have learned so much from whomever I'm speaking with,
00:29:19
Speaker
And I think that comes through like Joanna and I are both so curious about people and how they live and what they like and why they like it. Do you have any advice for folks who are working on a sub-stack? So one thing that Joanna has always said is to write for yourself and for your friends. And if you think of the reader as this sort of like vague nebulous idea of the reader, but you're not specific about who that is, it can lead you astray. But if you just talk to people like they're people and you're like, how would I say this to a friend or what would my friend
00:30:02
Speaker
find interesting about this. What would I actually say to a friend? That's a much clearer North Star for writing on the internet. And I've found that to be really true. And I think something I love so much about the Big Salad format is that it's so conversational, informal, and it really does feel like you're just talking with a new friend about their life and what they like. And I think it does that for the reader too. I think there's a marketing or like a B2B version of that, that I work on with clients. That's popping up as you say that for me, which is even for brands, I don't say one person or a friend, but it's choose 10 people that are perfect. The people you'd love to get like an outreach email or a DM from, and I think that can really help.
00:30:52
Speaker
You have to know who you're talking to and then it just relaxes everything. Do you have any good advice for interviewing? You interview so many people. That's such a good question. I think send a questionnaire ahead of time. And it's not like you have to fill out all of these things. People can pick and choose. So if there's something that they're really excited to share about, Maybe they've got like this tabletop item that they're great aren't made really love and it feels like an obvious thing to share They can jot that down. But if they're like, I don't listen to podcasts, that's not part of my media diet regularly They don't feel compelled to answer
00:31:29
Speaker
So I think being upfront ahead of time to give them the sort of general framework of all of the types of things that they could share. Like we have one on there that's like something in the world that you love the sound of a rainstorm or just to give examples of the range of things we're interested in hearing from them. non-product questions, plus what's something you always bring with when you're traveling or what's your summer uniform right now? What are you wearing? And I think.
00:32:04
Speaker
giving people a preview of that ahead of time. That gives us a really good sense of just how the conversation might go. I think something that I'm always trying to do is like, how do I get what I need from this conversation so I don't have to circle back with follow-up questions? So I'm like always listening deeply and trying to anticipate What will I need when I'm putting together this issue? Like what seems maybe obvious now, but I should ask a follow up question instead of just assuming that I get it or that a reader will get it. Something else that I do because so many images in the issue are pulled from a person's Instagram.
00:32:47
Speaker
I feel like by the end of an issue's life cycle, I am like more familiar with that person's Instagram than they probably are. I have been up and down their grid. I know all about it. And so I will sometimes be like, ah You share so many reels of you and your mom together. It's so delightful. Can you say something about that? And so adding some questions in about that. Usually we warm up by talking about whatever project they're working on, if they've got something that they're promoting at the moment. And then sometimes, and this is a surprise and delight, we've had people on who aren't active on social, which is totally fair. The Jessica DiFino issue.
00:33:32
Speaker
Oh, and Jessica too. yeah Great. And so anyways, one of my favorite sub stackers. And I just, I think she has six photos on her Instagram grid. I really feel confident in that number. I think it's six. And I was like the whole interview kind of making track of what photos would I ask for afterwards. And then when she sent over her folder, it was holding my breath and I opened it and it was just amazing because we had talked about
00:34:04
Speaker
paddle boarding and how she lives on this lagoon and the waterfowl are so much a part of her life and she like goes hand-crabbing and this is just this whole element of her that I wouldn't know about outside of her sub-stack. And there's this image of her that's utterly fabulous. She's paddle boarding in a fur coat. I'm sorry. What? That is so bold and brave and daring. and
00:34:35
Speaker
I really love that part of Big Salad when an image doesn't just illustrate or confirm or correspond in a one-to-one way to what's being shared in the quote, but that actually adds detail and color and nuance to the whole storytelling of the issue. I will link the Big Salad Jessica Dofino interview in the show notes. It was so good. Everyone should go look at it and look at those photos. it's As you're talking about the general ethos, one thing is making me... First of all, it makes total sense. It it is a collaborative process to interview someone and like finding the things that they're also interested to talk about, I think is so important because it's easy to come up with questions that
00:35:22
Speaker
you think the audience wants to hear or that you as the interviewer are curious about, but if the person you're talking to doesn't have a spark for them, it's boring for them and they might not give you the best content. So that makes total sense to me. Big salads interviews, it seems like you're doubling down on what they want to share, which I think that energy really comes through. Something that kind of gives me the ick is if I read or listen to an interview and I feel like someone's being really pressed about something, they don't feel like sharing, I really hate that. Yes. Oh, totally. I want everyone to feel comfortable when they're speaking with me for big salad. And then sometimes people I'm talking to, you on the other hand, have a different sense of what other people think is interesting and they'll say something. like We need more info on that.
00:36:11
Speaker
And you're like, really? And you're like, oh, yes. like I'm thinking of Amy and Azucumara Teal who said just like in the throwaway thing that she was the handwriting champion of Western Kansas. And I was like, you are? Could you tell me more about that? She had this lovely story about winning this penmanship competition in sixth grade. And it was a competition for high schoolers, by the way. So this was a big deal. And it led into how much handwritten letters has meant to her over the course of
00:36:49
Speaker
her relationship with her husband who writes her a letter every Valentine's Day and how she corresponds with the poet Ross Gay about their gardens and that turned into a book of poems and I felt really thrilled that she shared that and that we went on that journey down that line of questioning together. Do you think of yourself as a very intuitive person? Maybe. I don't know. I feel like I'm always trying to become a better listener and that some of my most deeply held values are curiosity and empathy and connection. Do you feel intuitive? Yes. i dont I think that word means different things to different people, but for me, I'm like following threads and sparks. The older I've gotten, the more I'm ha okay with that. I think that
00:37:44
Speaker
If you are an intuitive person, there can be shame in it because the world, especially around business wants facts and plans and stats. Not to say those aren't important, they are, but sometimes for me, finding the language to say. I'm doing this because I feel like I need to and I trust that I'll figure something out in the process of doing it and following this feeling has been something I've had to get better at. I felt more shame when people pressed me because sometimes they didn't have the language to say why. The reason I asked is because I'd imagine you're an intuitive interviewer who's hearing things and being like, oh, I'm going to double click on that. I love the phrase that you use, double click. that Yes. it's And also you said spark and like following threads and
00:38:29
Speaker
Yes, I am so much about respecting people's boundaries and like whatever they consent to share, that's what I'm good with. But I think part of deep listening is, wait, where are the sparks and where are the threads and how can we make these connections come together? And what's cool, and this is true for Cup of Joe, week of outfit posts, beauty uniform posts, there are always like two to three themes that sort of bubble up and become what the conversation is about, even as we're ostensibly talking about fashion or beauty. And listening for what those themes are and asking questions around them really provides such a nice structure to those Cup of Joe posts or to the Big Salad interview post.
00:39:19
Speaker
Can I ask you about a personal writing project of
Personal Projects and Stories
00:39:22
Speaker
yours? Let me talk about it a little bit. So I am working right now on a book that started as a column I was writing for Catapult before it shuttered its magazine arm. It was called Mother of All Messes, and it was about mothering and the climate crisis, and just how strange it's been for me as a parent to be like giving my children language for the natural world and teaching them about these places and these animals that are actually under threat and in danger of disappearing altogether during their lifestyle and how I've had to learn to hold together
00:40:04
Speaker
my hopes for them and for all of us for the future alongside my fear, which I think is just a part of parenting in general. Like Eula Biss when writing about parenting was like, I think one of the biggest questions is what will we do with our fear? And because it's so much of our love is wrapped up in that. And the book's big questions are about like how do we help our children fall in love with the natural world and introduce them to the real and complex and overwhelming problems that we're facing while also reassuring them that they're not alone in it and that there is still reason yet to hope.
00:40:52
Speaker
And so that book project is coming out in April, 2026 from Harper Perennial. And it's a work that is deeply personal to me and very meaningful. So thank you for asking about it. Congrats. i'll be I'm now obsessed with you. I can't wait to read your book. And what a tough, I don't know if that's funny to say. I think it's such an interesting topic. And when you first mentioned it to me, I thought, Oh, how hasn't that been a bullshit? What a beautiful topic to be exploring, but also obviously a complicated one.
00:41:28
Speaker
It is. Caitlin, speaking of being an intuitive person, have you ever seen a ghost? It is maybe the tragedy of my life that I have not yet seen a ghost, but I will say I haven't ruled it out yet. We live in an old Victorian. It was built in 1902, and it's definitely a fixer-upper. like We always have some sort of project or DIY thing happening at any given moment. Before we moved in, I had this incredible two hour long conversation with the previous owner. She shared with me everything that she had learned about the home's history and who built it and the neighborhood and
00:42:13
Speaker
She's like, you're going to want to take out the carpet in the stairs and on the second floor for the bedrooms, hoping that there's beautiful hardwood flooring underneath. And there is original flooring. oh But you should know that in the middle bedroom, there is on the floor spray painted in hot pink. And I spent a whole weekend with a floor sander trying to get it off the floor so I could refinish them. And then we ended up just putting carpet down. So it's okay, that's good to know. But then she also told me all of this stuff where I'm like, I feel like maybe your realtor should be present. I don't think you should be dying for this.
00:42:54
Speaker
And so she was like, yeah, in the 70s, I think there were hippies living in the house and maybe a squatting situation. And then I think there was a fire in the dining room with the fireplace. She showed me where there were burn marks on the floor. And she was like, I think it was even abandoned for a while with blackberry vines coming up it. And I was like. What are we getting ourselves into? Once I had a dinner party and a priest came over for supper and he wanted a tour of the house so I showed him around and then at the end of the night as he was leaving he like turned to me and said there aren't any ghosts in this house.
00:43:39
Speaker
And I was like, weird, I have never ended a dinner party by any kind of pronouncement. That seems a little, I don't, should I be reassured by this? Or this is a little suspicious. That's what he's telling you in parting. So I don't know. I have not yet seen a ghost in this house, but I wouldn't put it past it. I hope it's a nice if that's what you want. It's funny you were last week or a couple weeks ago, we interviewed Maggie Sows, who's lovely. She's the head of marketing at this brand agency Red Antler and she had a similar answer and that she was like, no, but it is like the heartbreak of my life that I have not yet seen a ghost. That's wild. I love that the previous owner, it was like,
00:44:23
Speaker
Forget about escrow, I just need to pass on the history of this place to you. I like the integrity of that. She just told me everything. She's like, and this neighbor, she is meddlesome. I'm so grateful that you shared so much about your life and your work and your process and behind the scenes. It's such a cool, I don't even know what to call a cup of joe or a big salad, a cool entity. Is there anything that, is there anything interesting coming up for you, big salad or cup of joe that you'd want to talk about?
Community Engagement and Events
00:44:53
Speaker
Yes. So something new that we've started is we're having big salad live events. We did our first ever event in Chicago in April, and it was Joanna Goddard in conversation with Hunter Harris, who is brilliant and so funny. That event was so much fun. It sold out in an hour. We sold like 250 tickets and it was just
00:45:19
Speaker
such a magical thing to be a part of to bring a publication like Cup of Joe and Big Salad into an event space and make it real and tangible and to feel as warm and welcoming and fun as the site and the newsletter feels. And so we were like, we have to keep doing more of these. This is so great. So we are doing our next event in Seattle. It's going to take place August 21st with special guest poet Kate Bayer and we're holding it at the Sif Cinema Egyptian in downtown Seattle. We're going to have ah treats by legendary Seattle folks like Molly Moon's ice cream and it's just going to be so much fun.
00:46:06
Speaker
We are also dipping a toe into merch. We're going to be selling some Big Salad merch at that event. And we're just really looking forward to doing more of these in different parts of the country because it's such a fun way to connect with our readers. Cup of Joe and Big Salad wouldn't be what it is without first of all Joanna Goddard hosting us all but then second like our readers they really make the community what it is and I'm happy to be a part of it. I'm sure that so many big salad fans are going to be like jonesing for those tickets every time a new event comes out that's super cool that you guys are doing that congratulations. Thank you. Could I ask you a question?
00:46:51
Speaker
What's one of your favorite things? Oh, here's a theory I have. I think that we know the answers to most questions right away. If I said to you, what was one of the best days of your life? I bet your thinking brain would have to sift through and be like that, but I don't, et cetera. But probably you'd get an image in your head that was like, and whatever that image is, is the right answer. And so I don't know if you agree with that. But when you said that, I thought of my Morning Pages Journal, which is like a giant lime green moleskin. I think of this necklace that th I wear every day, which is from Catbird, which I love, and my fiance got it for me, and I just love it. Those are the two things that came to mind. What's one of your favorite things? The beach.
00:47:33
Speaker
oh I love even just like a a terrible weather day going to be by the water is so special. oh Like sometimes we'll just go get like a breakfast sandwich and bring the kids walk and it's the Northwest. So it's probably like 50 and rainy, yeah but it's still so restorative to be by the water. I took it so literally as object. Caitlin, thank you so much. You're an incredible interview. And this was such a bright spot. I'm so glad to have done this. Meredith, I had the best time. Thank you so much for everything.
00:48:12
Speaker
Hey content people. Do you mind if I call you that? If you like the show, there are a few ways you can stay in touch and support us. The first is you could subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode. The second is you could leave a five star rating and a review. Those make a really big impact. I know they're a pain and they take a little bit of time, but if you're feeling generous and you've been listening to the show, I'd appreciate it so much. And the third is you could sign up for the Content People newsletter. The link is in the show notes. We share news about the show and episodes. And I also write a lot about the intersection between
00:48:47
Speaker
work and creativity, which is at the heart of so many of these content people conversations. We also love feedback. If you want to request a guest or a topic, pitch yourself to be on the show, advertise with us, learn more about Medbury social media, or otherwise just be in touch, shoot me an email. I would love to hear from you. It's Meredith at medburyagency.com. That's M-E-D-B-U-R-Y agency dot.com. I will throw that in the show notes too. All right, until next time.