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S3E17 Dr Cheryl Robinson
173 Plays3 months ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Dr. Cheryl Robinson!
Dr. Cheryl Robinson is an international speaker, founder of Creative Renegade Media, a doctor of education in organizational leadership and a regular contributor at ForbesWomen.
We dive into Cheryl’s podcast, 'Embrace the Pivot,' where she shares why confidence, taking risks, and building a strong network are game-changers for career pivots. Cheryl also gets personal, opening up about her health challenges and the power of authentic storytelling.
Follow Cheryl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drcherylrobinson/
Follow Cheryl on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/embracethepivot/
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Content People on insta: https://www.instagram.com/contentpeoplepod/
Subscribe to the Content People newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Email Meredith: [email protected]
Episode Breakdown:
- 00:00 Introduction and Guest Background
- 01:06 Career Journey and Early Beginnings
- 02:23 Starting a Media Company and Forbes Contribution
- 09:07 Embrace the Pivot and Podcast Insights
- 14:30 Interviewing Techniques and Challenges
- 23:09 The Importance of Uniqueness in Pitches
- 24:33 Handling Misleading Pitches
- 25:25 Challenges in Conducting Interviews
- 27:08 The Problem with Jargon in Pitches and Interviews
- 28:13 Spotting Authenticity in Stories
- 28:44 Understanding Advertorials
- 32:03 Memorable Interviews
- 35:09 Personal Health Struggles and Advocacy
- 39:19 The Power of Vulnerability in Storytelling
- 41:55 A Unique Ghostly Experience
- 44:37 Final Thoughts on Storytelling
45:37 Closing Remarks and How to Stay Connected
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Transcript
Introduction to Dr. Cheryl Robinson
00:00:00
Speaker
but Cheryl, thank you so much for doing this. I've been following you for a while. I really admire you a lot. So, very happy to have you on. For anyone listening who doesn't know you, could you share who you are and all of the different things that you do? Hi, everyone. I am Dr. Cheryl Robinson and a quick snapshot. I am an international speaker, founder of Creative Renegade Media. I have a doctorate in organizational leadership and I have a column at Forbes Women where I just published my 500th article and have 30 editors pick recognitions.
00:00:37
Speaker
I have a background in sports. I worked in sports for 15 years, both on the marketing side and then the talent side. So I helped professional athletes put together programs, anything off the court. So basketball camps, galas, tennis events, anything along those lines. Oh my gosh. I didn't realize that about your sports organization background, not super cool. yeah I think I came to know you through your Forbes work and then in looking at your profiles and following you, I realized how much broader everything your work time is.
Career Beginnings and Sports Management
00:01:15
Speaker
What was your career journey?
00:01:18
Speaker
So it actually started in high school. I was the wrestling manager and I was the coach's right hand woman. I did everything from photography, press inquiries, to helping out at practice, videography, all this stuff. When I went over to college, I said, hey, do you need a manager for any of your teams? And they said, yes, I do. So I started working in the athletic department. That led me to Hollywood for two years. And when I came back east, I worked again in the athletics department at my alma mater. But I said there has to be something more to this type of sports job.
00:02:04
Speaker
did research and I said, oh, there's a whole industry out there. I had no idea that was actually a business as crazy as that sounds. But then I went to Columbia for my master's in sports management and that just opened the door for me. Wow. That's so interesting. And then from sports management, you started your media company and then also started contributing to Forbes. Or how did that come about?
Entrepreneurial Ventures and Partnerships
00:02:35
Speaker
Let's see. from I networked while in Columbia.
00:02:40
Speaker
your Rolodex or my Rolodex grew tremendously being there. And I met a woman who was starting a sports department at her PR agency. So I came on board. And that's where I started working with different athletes. And I was more on the event side. And yeah, about after about a year, I said, you know what, I can do this for myself. So I started a different company for events. And I thought I was going to be this world-renowned events organizer. I'd fly around the world. Didn't happen that way. But people started asking me, what type of events do you want to do? And I shared a few. And people said, we want to come on and help you with this.
00:03:28
Speaker
ah So I started building out these two main events, which I loved, but I had the wrong partners. Anyone in business realizes Your partnership is like a marriage. And if that's not going well, your child, the actual company, is not going to do well. And after two successful events, they were really successful. I was just burnt out. I said, I do not want to do this anymore. This is not the lifestyle I want.
00:04:01
Speaker
And I had always been involved in publishing journalism since high school, working for my local newspaper. Then I started publishing two different sports online journals. So I had a portfolio behind me.
Becoming a Forbes Women Contributor
00:04:17
Speaker
And I said, all right, what do you really want to do? I really want to be a New York Times bestselling author. But to do that, you need to write. And my writing had been put on the back burner when I started graduate school, made a commitment to myself. 80% of my time would be spent on my writing, 20% on
00:04:40
Speaker
events in different projects. Three months after I made that commitment to myself, I was at an event and there was a lady on a panel and she was a contributor to Forbes Women. oh Now, everyone else in the room was going, oh, that's amazing. She has a column at Forbes. But I was sitting there going, how did she get to be a contributor? And if she can do it, I can do it. And after the event, I went right up to her and I said, here's who I am. Here's what I would like to do. How can I be a contributor? She said, come with me. And what wasn't announced.
00:05:20
Speaker
Was the former editor of Forbes women was in the room and she introduced me I'm with her my whole spiel again, and I asked the same question. How can I become a contributor and The former editor said send me your portfolio Don't worry, I get back to people in three months. So just hang tight. Next day, I set my stuff off and I let it go because I knew it was going to be a while. Three days later, she wrote me, I had to answer a whole nother round of questions, send more portfolio pieces.
00:05:55
Speaker
Few days later, she got back to me again. I had to answer more questions and all this stuff. And then 20 minutes later, she said, welcome aboard.
The 'Embrace the Pivot' Philosophy
00:06:05
Speaker
But here's where it got tricky. She goes, what are you the expert in? I was in sports marketing. That's cool. That's great. But so are thousands of other people. I didn't consider myself the expert. But what I was really good at was failing forward. When one project didn't work, learn the lessons, pick myself up, do something else. When that didn't work, right? So I just kept moving forward. She goes, I like it, but it has to be more positive.
00:06:38
Speaker
Okay, now I really have to self-reflect. What does failing forward actually mean? Okay, you go from point A to point B to point C. What does that mean? Pivoting. And I said, what about embrace the pivot? It goes, I love it. No one else is talking about pivoting. Run with it. And that's where embrace the pivot. came from, and that's where my column blossomed, but then the pandemic stole my word. And oh boy, did people start talking about pivoting. and But that's the quick version of how I got to where I am. and then
00:07:16
Speaker
doing this column and I really, I have all these story ideas I want to get out into the world. I'm so frustrated with the publishing industry. It's just not what it used to be. Self-publishing doesn't have a stigma anymore, but I really want to build out a company. And I said, let's build a media company.
Vision for Creative Renegade Media
00:07:34
Speaker
And about two years ago, that's where Creative Renegade Media stemmed from. Wow. So for folks who aren't familiar with it, can you just talk a little bit about what Creative Renegade Media does? ah Sure. And I haven't officially launched it yet, so here it's on my launch pad right now. But Creative Renegade Media, right now it's housing my stories and
00:08:01
Speaker
I'm really focusing on short-term content, not for fiction. This is for nonfiction, leadership, self-development, those types of material. I just published a five book children's book series called The Happy Habits. or the Happy Habits Club with the Happy Habits for Rabbits and they help people find they're happy and there's a whole Happy Habits tracker for kids. It's very cute and ah launched with that. And then I have a few other books in the works that are going to be launching by the end of the year. Within five to six years, I want to bring on other authors, not where they pay me to publish because
00:08:44
Speaker
The smaller independent publishing houses, the majority of them, yeah they want authors to pay them. I don't want that. I want to act like a regular publishing house, but where I actually pay authors. So that's the five to six year goal with it. Wow, that's so cool. Thank you. right and So Embrace the Pivot. Yes, that's your
Understanding the Concept of Pivoting
00:09:09
Speaker
podcast. I did. So I got my column right in the middle of my doctorate program, and I really wanted to dive deeper. So with my column, I feature and highlight women who have successfully pivoted in their careers.
00:09:25
Speaker
And with a dissertation, I knew I would really be able to ask questions that went deep into people's mindsets, how they operate. And the biggest key finding is people don't realize that they're pivoting and people pivot on average. 300 times a day because pivoting actually, there's three types of pivots. You have your personal pivots, which is you get married, divorced, you move to a different state, have children, et cetera. Professional.
00:09:59
Speaker
You get fired, you start your own company, you change roles within a company you've been working for, change industries. And then there's the mindset. And people don't realize that you have to pivot your mindset constantly to not just survive in the world, but survive day to day. And that's where that 300 number comes from because you're constantly pivoting your mindset. Wow. I'm going to, that's super interesting. I feel like I'm, even as you're talking, I'm like, I can pivot it. I was like the CEO at a marketing agency for a long time. And then I started at my own company, which is like, it's.
00:10:45
Speaker
LinkedIn strategies, ghostwriting for execs and brands. And in my head, I was just like, oh, it's like a natural progression. You move on, you it's still marketing, but I'm like, maybe I can, I'm going to have to dig more into your pivot content. That's really cool. and I love how you articulated it. Just let me try and say that back to make sure I remember it's kind of have a life pivot. You can have a career pivot and then mindset pivot and we're constantly mindset pivot. 100% and the mindset does entail leadership styles. And whether you have a small business or you're managing a Fortune 500 company, depending on who you talk to,
00:11:25
Speaker
You have to pivot your leadership style in order to get them motivated to reach that goal. And then there's communication style. How you talk to your three-year-old child is going to hopefully be different than how you talk to your partner, than how you talk to your boss or to your stakeholders and clients, just everything. So that's constantly pivoting. in all of the work writing and thinking you've done about it, what do you think are the qualities and characteristics that make someone good at
Qualities for Successful Pivoting
00:12:01
Speaker
it? So one, so okay, let me rewind just a little bit. You're up in the dissertation.
00:12:08
Speaker
There were three core themes that I uncovered, along with a lot of sub-themes. The three core themes in no particular order, self-confidence. People who are able to successfully pivot, and this is in their career, they have the self-confidence in themselves. They recognize, acknowledge, and know the value that they bring to the table, and they're not afraid to share that with others. Two, they take the risk. Everyone that I interviewed, both dissertation and for my column,
00:12:47
Speaker
The risk of staying the same was greater than actually taking the risk to see where it could lead. And that is huge because risk-adverse people, they 100% can pivot and get to where they want to go in their career. It just might take longer. but the people who are willing to take that risk, that's how it goes quickly. And then the third core theme is everyone understands the value of their network. It's not about the quantity ah of contacts, it's about the quality. And through quality, they realized it's not networking, it's building relationships. That's so interesting.
00:13:34
Speaker
All right. I'm going to try and say it back again. So it was self-confidence, willingness to take risks and understanding and the value and how to nurture their existing network. Is that right? Yes. Perfect. Wow. No, that really resonates. It's so cool. You're doing so many interesting and different things. What is an average week like for you right now? and I might sound like every creative out there, it varies. It really varies. It's interviewing people for the column. It's coming up with different topics. It's working on the marketing campaign for the media company, for the book series. It's helping my parents who are getting older and they need some help. And it really varies between all of that.
00:14:28
Speaker
Now it sounds like you got a lot going on. I want to pick your brain a little bit about interviewing because obviously you interview incredibly impressive women constantly. I guess a couple of questions, a couple of things I've noticed, one right at the start or maybe right before we hit record and we were talking about, which is I think something that I need to work on as an interviewer is that I'm a recovering people pleaser who's really concerned with the people on the other side feeling comfortable. And I think sometimes I don't naturally allow, I don't want them to feel uncomfortable. So I won't double click on something that maybe I should double click on, or I won't appropriately push back if something sounds a little unclear to me. I don't know if I'm articulating it. That's one thing. And then the other thing is I think I have a tendency to mirror folks, which
00:15:22
Speaker
I don't know. I think I find draining afterwards as an interviewer. Do you have advice on that? Or what do you think makes a good interviewer? And how have you changed as an interviewer over
Evolution as an Interviewer
00:15:31
Speaker
time? I've had my column now for seven years, eight years. I've lost count. Wow. I do remember my very first interview, though. I was so nervous. I had a whole list of questions and I really wanted to make the interview an hour long because I felt that I was wasting their time if I didn't make it an hour long.
00:15:56
Speaker
So I was question after question. And then we ran out and I went, Oh, what am I going to talk about? It's only been 35 minutes. And, Oh, I was so worried that they were going to feel that they were cheated on time. Biggest learning experience of being a journalist. One, people value their time. So the shorter the interview, the better in my case. And it is so much better to not send questions ahead of time anyway.
00:16:35
Speaker
When people have the questions, they rehearse their answers. It's very fluff. It makes no sense. And they just stick to the surface. yeah As an interviewer, you don't want surface answers. because any one of your readers or followers or listeners can go to any other outlet and see the same exact quote. And that stinks. So never, even for my podcast, I do not send questions or topics ahead of time.
00:17:10
Speaker
I like it to be a fluid conversation and a good interviewer will pick up on different pieces of information. And ah what did you say? Double click or double tap. And that's what makes a good interviewer because you really have to listen And the people can't give you fluff. And I ask some really strange questions where ive multiple times people have come at the interview and said to me, I've never been asked any of those questions. You really made me think. And I think I know myself more now because of it.
00:17:51
Speaker
That was lesson number one. So really my interviews lasted about 15 minutes. Thank you. And we move on. I only had five minutes. I was at a Formula E race and there was a female lead for a team. And her publicist said, you have five minutes. I turned that five minute interview into a editor's pick recognition. And she was really good though. She was trained. So she got to the point, she didn't over talk, and it was phenomenal. So I said, after that experience, and that was in my first year of having the column,
00:18:32
Speaker
that I don't need to do our interviews. I could keep this to 15 minutes. Lesson number two as a good interviewer, if you feel something is off and the answer is too fluffy, I ask the same question in a different way.
Handling Evasive Interviewees
00:18:50
Speaker
And if they're just not answering my questions, now I tell them, sorry, I can't run your article. Wow. And because my reputation is on the line. The editors know when it's fluff. They know when it's BS. And I'm not putting myself on the line for that. And publicists are hired to make their clients look good.
00:19:16
Speaker
Also, they should have their clients do media training, because I have now interviewed close to 700 individuals, and you know when the pitch is better than the story itself, and that is brutal. No, no. An interview does not guarantee publication, even for my podcast. If the people on the other end of the podcast don't know how to speak, don't know how to tell a story, I don't run their podcasts. because I have to keep my reputation.
00:19:49
Speaker
High standard, is that the right word? by Or positive. And sorry, that's the way it is. And there have been a lot of times where I'm like, ooh, I've been scammed a little here, or let on. Maybe not scammed, but let on. And I don't publish. I do not publish. So that's lesson number two. And lesson number three, it's not the end of the world. It really isn't. In the scheme of things, It's not. People want to change their direct quotes. By policy, we're not allowed to change direct quotes at all. Again, your client should know how to speak and how to give an interview. If they don't know their story, that's on them. but That's not on us. So, yeah, it's not the end of the world. There are millions and millions of pieces of content going out every minute.
00:20:44
Speaker
the article is relevant for maybe a day and then people move on. So that's why I've learned number three. If I make a mistake, I've spelled people's names wrong before and there are quotes where, okay, this really doesn't make sense, but this is what they said. No one cares. No, that's the biggest thing. No one cares. yeah yeah I'm obsessed with these high standards boundaries of steel. Thank you. thank you there What are some of the questions when you say you ask unusual questions? Are there a few curve balls you will throw at people that you find like really enlivens the conversation a little bit?
00:21:24
Speaker
I'm going to share one of my secret sauces with you. So when the interview is stale, it's just not going anywhere, but you know that there's a story there. And a lot of times because it's a Forbes column, top tier, people get very nervous. because ah Forbes has such a great reputation. They want to sound articulate and successful. Can I tell you how many people are like, sorry, can I answer that again? If it's just ongoing anywhere, I always ask, what are you most proud of?
00:22:00
Speaker
because that, the smile goes on their face and they just feel comfortable sharing what they're most proud of themselves for. And then it turns the whole interview around. And a lot of people say, yeah, I never thought of that before, but it it just makes them feel comfortable because I'm asking them to highlight their biggest achievement. Wow, I love that. Thank you. ah yeah So I'd imagine you're getting pitched by PR folks all the
Crafting Standout Pitches
00:22:31
Speaker
time, is that all right? All the time. What makes a good pitch? What's something where like you it'll stand out and you're actually interested to talk to the person they're putting forth?
00:22:42
Speaker
So one is when it's personalized, we know when you're sending this out to hundreds of other journalists, but when it's personalized and someone says, hey, I just read your article on X. Okay, so they have a feel for what I write about. And two, everyone thinks they have the best story in the world. And I genuinely believe people have awesome stories, but it's how you spin it. During the pandemic, I was getting pitched 1500 pitches a month. And 80% of those pitches were for a new apparel line, skincare, or cannabis, CBD, oil company. 80% of the 1500 pitches. What makes you unique? What makes you unique?
00:23:42
Speaker
That's what people forget to add. Great. You have another skincare line. I've just seen today 20 of them. Who cares? And the best piece of advice I got writing was, who cares? If you can answer, who cares? You have a great story. If you can't answer who's gonna care about this, you have nothing. And I always take that with me. So when I read these pitches, I always go, who's gonna care about this? And if I see, okay, it's a trend and they have a unique angle to it, okay, good, let's roll with it. But if this is just another run of the mill, look at this person,
00:24:29
Speaker
Who cares? That's what it comes down to. and I had people lie in pitches. I took this one pitch. This woman opened up a health center and everything, and they said she was a doctor who no longer wanted to work with insurance companies or within the scope of the medical field anymore. She wanted to really make health personalized and be able to connect with her clients. And that's why I took it. There's a lot more to that pitch. And then I said to her, so when did you decide that you really wanted to get your medical degree? And she goes, I'm not a doctor.
00:25:08
Speaker
I said, that was the whole reason I took the pitch. And I said, you better check with your publicist because this is how they're representing you. And I couldn't run the story because without that medical piece, the whole storyline, there was nothing to it or nothing unique about it. I was going to ask what one one of your worst interviews was. There's so many. One of the worst ones, and again, this is where people don't understand the importance of getting to the point with all the information and knowing their story. And this was about two years into having my column. I asked a person, briefly share with me one of your biggest career pivots. 45 minutes, it took her to explain that one question.
00:26:00
Speaker
And typically, I schedule out half an hour. By this point, I'm going, wow, I don't know what else I'm going to ask. Because if I ask her one more question, and I'm going to be on the phone for two hours. I learned that valuable lesson, too, as I now cut people off. Not in a rude way, but 45 minutes to answer one question, that's a lot. That is. It's funny. I had never made this connection before. but what you're saying, people doing interviews too, like a job interview. I remember you just sparked for me this one person who we were like, I used to like opening it, tell me about your career journey. 35 minutes later later, and also to the fluffy thing you were talking on earlier, like in job interviews, you can kind of sense when someone's being evasive,
00:26:50
Speaker
and like super polished in a way that maybe is disassembling a little bit. Yeah. And I never like, it's so obvious now, but I'd never really made the connection between the two minutes. Five minutes. She's doing research on how to connect with Cheryl. All right. And maybe you can relate to this too when hiring. When people throw around the jargon, organic, authentic, all these words. And what does that mean? Yeah. and You should be authentic. What were you not being authentic about that? Now you're being authentic. So when people, especially in pitches, when all those types of words, I don't even bother because I said, if they're doing this, the client's going to do this and it's going to be a horrible interview. So did you have you experienced that with hiring? They try and throw around all these top keywords that really hold no weight to anything.
00:27:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm very suspicious of jargon in general. I think sometimes people do it naturally when they're just so within the context of the environment, they're using acronyms all the time that they're no longer aware of. When someone is explaining something and they're just off in the sky full of jargon that means absolutely nothing in my head i'm often like wow you have no idea what you're talking about or is it about do you feel like you have an intuitive instinct for. A good story an interesting person and honest person at this point and having sorted through so many different.
00:28:23
Speaker
people? Yes and no. I've gotten better at it. And it's not until you talk to the person that you can really tell, okay, is this truthful or not? and Yeah, it's people, there are some really good con people out there and who know how to do it. Have you heard of advertorials at all? Yes. It's like a feature article about someone, but they're essentially paying for that feature, right? Yeah. And what some of these places do, which I don't know how, but they get access to a specific yeah URL and then they're able to take that main extension of the yeah URL.
00:29:07
Speaker
then add a PDF to it. And I don't know how that works, but technically that's an advertorial where it, and there's some magazines where you go, these people are paying for it because all these sketchy pitches have these same magazine articles in it. And what happens is if you don't keep paying, it's a PDF and they'll just take the PDF down. So the PDF is made to look like It's hosted on the platform, but it's not. It's just a PDF. If you look all the way at the end of the yeah URL extension, I went to do some follow-up research and all the articles were gone. Just gone.
00:29:53
Speaker
And that's when I learned about avatorials. This was about four years ago. And one of my publicist friends, she went, oh, they did avatorials. And then that's how I learned about it. And I didn't run the story because if you have to pay someone to run your article, then you really don't have a legit business. Yeah. That's, I feel like now I'm going to be looking at the end of yeah URLs. when i yeah Yeah, I love what you said about but someone's being jargony and giving you that really polished elevator pitch elevator pitch. You'll ask the question in a different way to throw a different type of question at them. Maybe what are you most proud of or something else to bring them back to the present moment in a more real way? Is there.
00:30:41
Speaker
Anything else you suggest for trying to get your subjects to just be present with you? Or are you that's actually not my job if they can't be present with me and they're giving me these polished answers, etc. Like I just don't run the article. Yeah, that's not my job and I could typically tell within 10 minutes if I'm gonna run the article or not and There have been some interviews where I stop them and I say, I'm sorry, you're not answering my questions. I can't run this article because they all make it about business. And this isn't free advertising. It doesn't matter what platform you're on.
00:31:21
Speaker
These platforms want to know your story. They want story or articles that connect with readers because that's why readers keep coming back. And when people just go on about their businesses and The marketing campaigns, that's free advertising where other advertisers on these top tier media publications pay a lot of money. And then to see this with, if it comes across as free advertising, it's not good for anyone around, but mostly the reader. yeah They don't get engaging content. So why are they going to want to come back if they're not learning anything or connecting with the articles?
00:32:03
Speaker
Do you have, is there one that comes to you as one of your most fun or best interviews ever?
Memorable Interviews and Stories
00:32:08
Speaker
Oh boy. Okay. There's two. One is Candace Cameron Beret. She played DJ on Full House. And I have interviewed her twice. She is just so loving, so open. Anything was on the table. And we just really connected. And she was actually one of the ones who said, you've asked some questions that no one else has ever asked. I grew up with Full House and I said, she's been interviewed a million times. What could I possibly ask her that she hasn't been asked before?
00:32:46
Speaker
That was my question. I said to her, what I just told you. And I said, what do you wish a reporter or journalist would ask you? And she stopped and she goes, no one has ever asked me that. And then that opened the door to all these other questions because she talked about what she really wanted to talk about. So that was just the best. She really gave me her time, which I appreciated. And she really gave me her time. And then the other one was this woman who grew up normal in a upper middle class neighborhood. And she said, no family trauma, nothing. And I just got involved in drugs.
00:33:33
Speaker
and the drugs led to homelessness in and out of jail. And the last time that she was in jail, she realized that there were no programs for women to reacclimate them into society. She started a program and we were on the phone for about an hour and a half. She was just so open and she just really spoke from her heart and that was one of the best
00:34:05
Speaker
interviews because she was so open, I could relate to her. I knew my readers could relate to her. And she took this really negative experience, turned it around. About a year later, I found myself halfway around the world talking to this vice president of this really large tech company. And he told me, hey, we're trying to work with individuals who have programs for inmates. And I said, I have this person for you. I introduced them and they actually invested in her company. And that's how when you share your story, and I always tell people, here's what makes a really good interview. The story you're most afraid to share is going to be the best story ever.
00:34:53
Speaker
and e She shared it. She shared her worst moment with me, shared how she turned it around, stuck with me a year later. And when this opportunity came up, I thought of her. Wow. So I mentioned I follow you on LinkedIn. I think that's probably the place I see you.
Sharing Personal Health Challenges
00:35:13
Speaker
You've been really open about some health issues that you've experienced and how that's impacted you personally and professionally. Is that something you might want to share a little bit about? I have a very rare clitoral issue. And for five years, I suffered where my clitoris would swell at its worst to three grapes the size. And being a woman, I'm sure you can, what's the right word, empathize or sympathize so with it?
00:35:44
Speaker
And I couldn't walk, sit, stand, run, nothing. and I was basically immobile when this would happen, when it would swell. No rhyme or reason to it. And that was the most frustrating part. Because if you knew why it was occurring, you yeah okay you wouldn't do X. doctor after doctor, no one knew. And when it was swelling, I went to a female gynecologist and she said to me, honey, it's all in your head. And as a woman, I couldn't believe that she was saying this to me when you could see it.
00:36:16
Speaker
It's not okay, maybe she's just feeling something but she could see the swelling. Anyway, from that I just went doctor after doctor and then I met Dr. Goldstein and I really credit him to saving my life because he took a chance on me and for a year we tried different methods and finally he said, you need surgery. And I had a sign of things saying I may lose my clitoris and I don't care because you're just in so much pain. And it wasn't until after surgery, I realized how much willpower it takes to keep going.
00:36:57
Speaker
Because when that's not feeling well, you're not feeling well. And when you're not feeling well, how can you run a company? How can you lead others when all you have are these negative thoughts in your head? And I said, if I'm going through this, there has has to be other people. And I've been on a few talk shows, different podcasts. I've had women write into me after the episode saying, thank you for sharing your story. I'm going through something similar and it feels good to not be alone. And then that just took it to another layer because as a woman entrepreneur, you feel alone in a lot of aspects, right? Much so. And it's just about the community. And I said,
00:37:42
Speaker
If I'm going through this, there to me, there has to be a reason because there isn't a reason I'd really go crazy. And just being able to share that you're not alone, it makes such a difference. And for a year and a half after the surgery was great, and now I'm starting to experience symptoms again. So now me and Dr. Goldstein are going through saying, okay, what can we do? Because no woman ah should experience this. yeah
00:38:13
Speaker
so that Snapchat. I'm so happy you found a doctor who's listening to you and working with you. And I think it's so cool and brave. that Thank you. but I can imagine like a reason women don't share about that. It's like talking about your clitoris online is like, it's complicated. And I could see it being something people hide and then feel worse about. Yeah. It's cool and brave that you've shared about it. Thank you. And I took my own advice. The story you're most afraid to share is the best story ever. And it is. And I'm OK. It was hard telling my dad, hey, here's what's going on with me, and telling some of my family members that everyone's been so supportive. But for me, I have that. And I said, I have to lean on that. And I really want to help other women know that you're not alone.
00:39:08
Speaker
so okay maybe there's different things that you can do but you're not alone because that was the worst feeling in the world with it yeah totally so for at medbury we do a lot of ghost writing and linkedin strategy for our clients many of whom are executives and actually like 70 of them are women which i love but sometimes they I hate like a certain type of vulnerability porn on LinkedIn that I feel like some execs or folks have gotten into, but sometimes I think I'd never made the connection of the story you're afraid to share being a really powerful connector.
Power of Vulnerable Storytelling
00:39:45
Speaker
But sometimes we do push a little bit with a client. We'll be like, we really think this story you told us is going to do a lot for you. It's very meaningful to put out there. And so usually they do incredibly well.
00:39:58
Speaker
But I know they're so nervous like the day it goes out and their nervous system is just what will people think? Is this too much? Did you feel that when you first started posting or did you feel very confident about sharing around it? Yeah, I was a little nervous, especially on TikTok. and I'm not a TikToker, but I said, let me try to put this out there. And it didn't do that well on TikTok. I don't know if it was the algorithm or anything, but I have a presence on LinkedIn and Instagram. And people were so supportive because I embraced myself for those negative comments and those trolls. I didn't get any.
00:40:42
Speaker
Everyone was supportive what fully. And I said, this is how we're going to break this stigma around gender bias just in general that these platforms have. And if we can normalize talking about women's body parts, which is okay to talk about men's body parts, but for women, it's still a taboo. This is how we're going to do it is encouraging one another. And both men and women were going, wow, you're so brave. Thank you for sharing. I was really surprised because I was expecting a few negative comments, but everyone was supportive. I'm so happy that you did. Yeah. And thank you for asking me about it because the more I can share the better or the more people that know they're not alone. So thank you.
00:41:36
Speaker
No, is it cool if we put a link to your LinkedIn and Instagram profile in the show notes in case people want to. I would love that. All right. I know we're encroaching on the hour, but my one question I love to ask at the end is, have you ever seen a ghost before?
Spiritual Beliefs and Unusual Dreams
00:41:55
Speaker
Seen a ghost.
00:41:58
Speaker
I'm going to say noticing, but I'm going to share a really unique dream I had. and So maybe this falls into it. And it was so powerful. I still remember it, but I kissed a ghost. And I don't know who this ghost was, but it was one of those dreams that felt so real. And it was a ghostly figure. and They kissed me and I remember I woke up going, was this real? Did this really happen? And I actually Googled it to see if it's a thing. And there are communities for people who have experienced this type of dream before. Oh my God. So that's a story. And then I don't.
00:42:43
Speaker
I'm spiritual and have you ever heard of the dime or quarter theory when it comes? So there's a theory where if you see a dime or a quarter on the street or not even just on the street, in your house where you're like, wait, that wasn't there the last time I was in the room. That is a loved one saying hello. So I have a whole jar of dimes and quarters that I've just randomly found. And if I could share this one really quick story. ah My brother's in the army and during boot camp, but you make your bed, everything is tidy. And he came back from a drill.
00:43:24
Speaker
and there was a dime on top of his bed and he just goes like, where did this come from? So that continues our belief in the whole diamond quarter theory. What was it? Were you like in your room asleep and the ghostly figure was there or were you like in another dream landscape somewhere? Oh no, it was my bedroom. ah Yeah. And I felt everything like the mouth, the hands on my face, the whole thing. And this happened about three years ago and I still remember it. That's how
00:44:03
Speaker
ah real it was, I guess you could say. And I thought I was going crazy, but I Googled it and there was a thing. And yeah, I felt like a ghost. It just felt like a ball of energy. I'm like, is this a ghost that's in love with you? Is this someone in a previous life that you were with who's like quantum leaping to say hello? I never thought of that. ah Yeah. I don't know. All I know is like a ball of energy and I felt the kiss in the hands and yeah. Oh, so cool. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Is there anything I didn't ask you relevant to our convo that you feel like you just want to say before we wrap up? Yeah, I would just like to emphasize everyone does have a good story.
00:44:48
Speaker
It's how you spin it. What makes you unique? What is going to make people care about listening to you, whether that's different advice you have for people, whether that's you support different foundations, because that's a unique angle to your story that people necessarily don't think about. And if you practice, telling your story in a different way. And of course, there's going to be other questions that come out. You don't want to sound rehearsed. But that's what makes the good story. And it's always the story you're most afraid to tell that is going to be the best. so just Thank you so much, Cheryl. This was ah such a treat to talk to you. I feel like I'm thinking about what you said quite a bit. I really appreciate it.
00:45:41
Speaker
Hey content people, do you mind if I call you that? If you like the show, there are a few ways you can stay in touch and support us. The first is you could subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode. The second is you could leave a five star rating and a review. Those make a really big impact. I know they're a pain and they take a little bit of time, but if you're feeling generous and you've been listening to the show, I'd appreciate it so much. And the third is you could sign up for the content people newsletter. The link is in the show notes. We share news about the show and episodes. And I also write a lot about the intersection between work and creativity, which is at the heart of so many of these content people conversations. We also love feedback. If you want to request a guest or a topic, pitch yourself to be on the show, advertise with us, learn more about Medbury's social media.
00:46:31
Speaker
or otherwise just be in touch, shoot me an email. I would love to hear from you. It's Meredith at medberryagency.com. That's M-E-D-B-U-R-Y, agency dot.com. I will throw that in the show notes too. All right, until next time.