Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S3E11 Lindsay Holden
136 Plays6 months ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Lindsay Holden, co-founder of Odele!
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Content People on insta: https://www.instagram.com/contentpeoplepod/
Subscribe to the Content People newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Check out the Medbury website: https://www.medburyagency.com/
Book time to chat about Medbury: https://calendly.com/medbury
Email Meredith: [email protected]
We loved talking with Lindsay.
Stay in touch with her:
Follow her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-holden-b44b941/
Follow Odele on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/odele-beauty/
Check out Odele’s website: https://odelebeauty.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Content People Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome to Content People. I'm your host Meredith Farley.
00:00:16
Speaker
I have to say, you have amazing hair, which I should have expected. Oh, gosh. You know what? If you're funny, I just got a haircut. For how I usually go so long, and then by the time I can get in, I'm just desperate for a cut, and then wanting it so badly, and then I get to the seat, and I'm like, I have no, I actually have zero direction.
00:00:37
Speaker
Yeah, inspiring me to maybe get some layers or something. I'm just, yeah, after I actually discovered the Dyson, I finally made a Dyson air wrap purchase. And I'm pretty low maintenance. I have very little time to ever do my hair. So I also, beyond great product, I credit air drying often. But, you know, that Dyson helps make it look like you put in a lot more effort if you just do address a few pieces in front.
00:01:04
Speaker
You're still damp, so you're giving me more credit than I deserve. I have a Dyson too, and yeah, I feel like I thought about it for a year because they're a little expensive. Thank God, this pays off. This is like the look presentable, cheap kind of. It does, and I feel like I only use the one attachment, but it's okay. I love it. Yeah, it's definitely a good
Meet Lindsay Holden: Co-founder of Odell Beauty
00:01:26
Speaker
one. For folks who don't know you, could you introduce yourself and just say a little bit about who you are and what you do?
00:01:32
Speaker
Sure. My name is Lindsay Holden. I am one of three co-founders of Odell Beauty. And I always started this thing in 2020. We launched and so the three of us were really running this company on our own.
00:01:48
Speaker
out of the gates and for quite some longer than we expected, just given the pandemic and timing. But yes, I mostly manage all of our retail relationships, how the brand shows up in the world. We're working on titles as we speak. My favorite one is co-founder. But if you were to push me a little further, it's really the chief brand officer. And so just our positioning in the world, what products we're going into, and managing those relationships as they relate to everywhere Adele shows up.
00:02:19
Speaker
I'm so obsessed with brand and branding. I'm very excited to dig into this conversation with you. And you just have an interesting career so far. Well, one of the things for taking the time to do this, I know you're really busy and I've been really looking forward to it. So thank you. No, me too. Thank you for having me. And so I'm interested in the origin story of Odell.
Odell Beauty's Origin and Mission
00:02:42
Speaker
I know you started in 2020.
00:02:45
Speaker
Why was it the right project for you and how did you and your co-founders find each other? Sure. So I had a long career in retail on all sides of retail and I just have been naturally drawn to sales and retail and merchandising and I had lived in Chicago for quite, I think it was five, six years out of college.
00:03:06
Speaker
from Minneapolis originally, and my now husband and I were dating at the time and knew that Minnesota was eventually where we wanted to live. And when I came, when we decided to move back here, I decided to go to graduate school. So I went to the University of Minnesota Carlson School of Business, which is where I met one of my partners, Britta.
00:03:30
Speaker
And so Britta and I there, we met, we learned, we worked really well together, and we started plotting. And out of graduate school, graduate school is a great bridge to get your foot in the door. At companies in Minnesota, I ended up working at Target.
00:03:45
Speaker
I worked at Target for about eight years and then eventually left after I had my third child. And I think it was eight months later that Britta and I, who had this conversation of what can we do on our own terms one day, knowing that big massive companies weren't the forever plan, but an awesome step in whatever path we were on. And so Britta and I continued the conversation at a time when we both found ourselves as free agents and like a point of transition with no plan as to what was next. But both trying to navigate just that.
00:04:15
Speaker
Britta had met my third partner, Shannon, at a different beauty company at which she was consulting. And it was when Britta and I were really talking and looking at that hair care space, saying, wait, why isn't there this product that meets my needs but is clean, my needs in terms of performance? Or why am I paying $40 for this?
00:04:38
Speaker
salon grade product, but it's dirty. And at the same time, our showers were literally packed with product, the whatever kind for our husbands, the clean kind for the kids, the salon kind for us. And we took a look at mass and we're like, there isn't a product that addresses our high standards for performance, but really is enabled, is more accessible, whether that's sharing with those who share your shower, a more affordable price point, or where you even buy it.
00:05:05
Speaker
And so it was when Shannon found herself also a free agent that she called Britta and we knew we had the means to create something like between the three of us and our previous experience and we went for it.
00:05:19
Speaker
So I want to dig into your eight years at Target.
Insights from Target to Odell's Success
00:05:23
Speaker
So what were you doing there? I'm sure you did a lot of things over that eight year period, but what did you learn? And then I know that Odala is distributed or you can get it at Target. So I'm really curious to understand too, how it maybe gave you insight into how retail works for product.
00:05:42
Speaker
Sure. I was a merchant at Target, always within the home category, which I loved because it married both with art and science. And so you're getting to partner, whether it's sourcing from external vendors or working to develop own brand products internal to the company. You get to own a store within the store, a category within the
00:06:03
Speaker
and they all level up to the broader strategy. But there's a lot of fun to be had within a certain category. And so even when your business is successful, you're always looking for ways to continue to grow that business, lean into the momentum, looking for years out to see what's next or what am I not addressing within my current assortment, whether that's a design or a price point or an offering. And I had a lot of fun as a merchant.
00:06:31
Speaker
And I love that there's just this obsession with putting the consumer first, understanding what they want, but then also how they're voting with their dollars and what is transpiring within the assortment that you made in order to help inform next year's your approach to the same category next year.
00:06:52
Speaker
So I think I took a lot of value out of testing, learning from what your hypothesis was, what you put out there, and truly maximizing value for the consumer. And that value can mean a lot of different things. It can mean Target does incredibly well. They deliver on that effect more, pay less.
00:07:11
Speaker
promise, and it could be great design at a more accessible price point. It could be amazing function. It could mean so many things. And so that, I would say, is what I really took from my time there. So as a merchant, what was the category that you were responsible for buying for? Sure. At first, it was bath.
00:07:33
Speaker
So it was bath accessories. Everything from like toilet seats to bath mats and shower heads to, oh my gosh, what was like the furniture that you would put in small spaces. And then I moved over to outdoor living and I bought patio furniture.
00:07:51
Speaker
and that was really fun and it was really I'm very much design obsessed much to the dismay of some of my designers at the time because I cared so much and I had so much fun but you're shopping for inspiration you're like how do I make this more approachable and at the time it was super interesting too because it was one of the first
00:08:10
Speaker
It's a business that's seasonal and then it's also such a high percentage of it is done online. So it was navigating what does that omnichannel responsibility look like and how do we maximize how we show up in stores in addition to online. So that is where that those are the categories for which I bought.
00:08:31
Speaker
So it must have been in some ways, like you must, I'd imagine that you were looking for products that were maybe, what's the phrase I'm looking for? They're punching above their weight in a certain area, but also you were looking for white space and with
00:08:51
Speaker
Odell, did you just get really good at spotting white spaces? And you're like, this is a huge white space. Clean, incredibly good quality, effective, not gender specific, but also has beautiful packaging and branding. Or like you have in your head a list of 20 products where you're like, I know there's a white piece in the market, 20 different categories.
00:09:13
Speaker
I wish I could say that I was that intimate. Yes, we definitely, I love taking a look at categories and seeing what doesn't exist or celebrating that product or that brand that addresses Jeff that is so thoughtful and curated and intentional because
00:09:32
Speaker
I think the details matter when it comes to creating a brand.
The Bold Minimalist Branding of Odell
00:09:37
Speaker
And on the retail side, not everybody has the same needs. And so I think it's making sure you've got the range and just looking at these categories that you're shopping as a consumer and saying, I wish there was this and there's not. And I think that's where a lot of great ideas are born. I'd love to talk about the branding. Odell has such a unique premium feel from the packaging to the ingredients.
00:10:02
Speaker
How did you land on that really beautiful but minimalist brand flow? Sure. It was a risk that we got definitely mixed feedback out of the gates because it wasn't the traditional choice to make, right? There's so many brands, at least at the time, that were made to scream at you for all the reasons why to buy on the shelves, right? But we saw it as design enthusiasts my feed is filled with.
00:10:32
Speaker
rugs or light fixtures. I'm always shopping. But I thought there was something to what we'd be able to communicate from a beautiful design. And we didn't have a ton of resources at the time of lunch. So what you're seeing is really at the time they were stuck, it was stuck componentry. And we wanted
00:10:51
Speaker
We didn't want to put a lot of cost into the bottle because we knew what was most important as the goop itself. But at the same time, we wanted it to look beautiful and looking good would communicate so much more about our brand that we almost couldn't say. So one, it looks nice in your space and people care about how their space look. I think that helps people enjoy the product a little bit more when they're using it versus something you're like, oh, and then just want to tuck under your counter again.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, these bottles are out on display in your shower. We wanted them to look and feel good. And it really helped. We really scrutinized what we put on the bottle because like I said before, it's really hard to communicate all the things or help people navigate which one's right for them. But we stripped it down to really what are those key benefits that people are looking for who have that certain hair type and texture.
00:11:42
Speaker
We put that on the front and everything else is on the back. And in its simplicity, it's actually been really disruptive on shell. So you get a brand block and it's just these simple bottles lined up and that is
00:11:59
Speaker
that brings attention, that draws your eye in almost in its simplicity as you're walking down the aisle. So that lent itself to a ton of discovery too. Countless people have told me, I'm like, how did you find out about us? It was an aisle and I picked up your bottle because it was pretty. Yeah, they are really pretty. I like them very much. How many SKUs do you guys have, right?
00:12:20
Speaker
Oh my gosh, to keep me honest, I think we're at 20. Wow. That's really interesting when you say you got mixed feedback in the beginning. What was the negative feedback you were getting and how did you as a team decide we feel this is right and we're going to move forward even though there's not consensus among every single person who's reviewed it?
00:12:40
Speaker
Yeah it was mostly sharing with some people who were more like friends and family who were from the CPG space and I think had some less traditional views of or dated to be honest about like how brand can and should show up and yes like we definitely care about feedback and what everybody everybody was
00:13:02
Speaker
saying or thinking and helping that inform how we went to market. But at the same time, it was a helpful reminder to be like, you know what, this is not our target market. You know, that person is not representative of who is most likely purchasing our product. And that gave us a lot of confidence. So you're never going to reach 100 percent consensus. And that's OK. There's definitely more than one right way to go about things is what I've learned throughout this process.
00:13:31
Speaker
Yes, I also like that you mentioned that you got some feedback because I think for a lot of early stage founders, probably myself included, it can feel so vulnerable at first and whenever anyone has a bit of a note, it's like,
00:13:47
Speaker
At least my reaction is like, oh yeah, maybe I've got this whole thing all wrong. And to hear that you guys got some notes and you're like, no, we really we want to try this or we think this is right. Yeah, it's nerve wracking, especially before you've seen a day of
00:14:02
Speaker
proof is just there's so much planning and there's you want it to be perfect. And it's definitely that's where I've been grateful as well to have partners who you get to run these insecurities by. But yeah, the best thing to do is just keep moving.
00:14:18
Speaker
Okay, there are a lot of different places I want to go here. Next, I guess one thing I'm curious about is how are you managing to create this really premium product and experience at these accessible price points?
Balancing Premium Quality and Accessibility at Odell
00:14:33
Speaker
Sure.
00:14:33
Speaker
We work really hard to focus on what's essential and out of the gates, we needed scale. And at the time, most brands that were in our, what I would consider our peer set were really launching D2C first and then going brick and mortar.
00:14:49
Speaker
But in order to protect that lower price point that we felt so strongly about, we really needed the scale to be able to pass along that value, right? You get price breaks and cough breaks, like once you reach a certain volume as it relates to packaging and components in the goop itself. And so we started with that and that essentialism
00:15:10
Speaker
carries through like in the brand, how we communicate, but in the business as well. And so that meant building the best product we possibly could while stripping out a lot of those drivers commonly associated with our industry. And so I think it
00:15:27
Speaker
We didn't have that massive marketing budget that then get path long. We really focus on earned or we didn't build that unique mold for a custom shaped bottle we sourced from what was stock. And so it was those choices that really added up and embracing less is more as well when it comes to the product.
00:15:47
Speaker
ease of navigation, making sure that our products are uniquely and discernibly different from each and every one that we offer, helping people navigate. So it's not coming out with that new flavor every season. That all adds up and drives cost. And it's really maximizing the value for what we have and the growth potential for what our lineup is. But that is mostly how we did it.
00:16:14
Speaker
So it was like you, you're focused on the ingredients. You went doc with some things like the bottle shape, et cetera, but you do have the cool font. So it really like, it's still differentiate. You focused on earned media as opposed to a big marketing budget.
00:16:30
Speaker
And is there anything else you can think of where you're like, this was one lever we pulled that really, this was more transformative than we expected it to be? Getting on shelf at a retailer was pretty incredible, right?
Innovative Marketing on a Budget
00:16:43
Speaker
And you learn pretty quickly whether or not this works. And so we were able to understand our velocities, to understand how we move. And then we get to
00:16:54
Speaker
do our best to add to that funnel, right? To build awareness, to build word of mouth. I've always loved our sampling for reviews, for example. And so just trying to get the product in the hands of as many people as possible because we know the go-goop is so good that people will come back and purchase it again.
00:17:14
Speaker
And also that word of mouth, it's so powerful. It's almost a better endorsement of you tell your friend that's better than the brand telling you in a way. And so it's like, how many different ways can we encourage the discovery of Odell?
00:17:29
Speaker
to continue to build that business. So what have been some great ways you've found to do that? It sounds like samples for reviews has been powerful. I imagine just being on target shelves is the only word of mouth. That's been.
00:17:45
Speaker
The earned attention in media has been awesome. We are just the company we keep and getting it into the hands of editors or beauty authorities to test and try and be like, no obligation, but what do you think? And so I'd say those have been incredible. And we're really, we're now just starting to play with, okay, what does more traditional campaigns look like and do for us? What is out of home? Looking at connected TV, social is a beef that
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah, always navigating. And so I wouldn't say we've had that viral moment, if you will. And we're just chugging along and figuring out and honestly assessing what has worked, what hasn't worked, and pivoting as we go and growing from there.
00:18:35
Speaker
We have had a few Today Show features, which is one where it's so amazing because you do see, it's really great you see the needle move with mention from the Today Show. That's interesting, that's cool. An author I know, she just posted on LinkedIn like a couple days ago because her book, which was published a couple years ago, was mentioned on the Today Show and sales on Amazon went up like 10,000 percent. You're like, no.
00:19:02
Speaker
I know. So there are like, I feel like it's a lot of little effort that kind of make the total that every once in a while come that that nice little bump.
00:19:17
Speaker
Hey guys, interrupting this interview for 10 seconds to talk about Medberry. At Medberry, we work with executives to help them build their brand and tell their stories on LinkedIn. If you're an exec, your LinkedIn profile can be really, really powerful. It can attract top talent, dream clients, and PR for your organization, and it can turn you into a magnet for opportunities that you might be curious about, like board seats, high paying speaking gigs, podcast appearances, writing projects, or even sometimes a new dream job.
00:19:46
Speaker
But you don't have to post super cringy LinkedIn content to get there. It's totally possible to build a brand with great content that you feel excited and proud to put out into the world. Our process starts with an interview. It's actually a lot like being a guest on Content People. We ask strategic questions to draw out your personal stories and expertise. Then we create a brand plan, optimize your profile, and deliver a batch of content to you for review each month.
00:20:13
Speaker
Once you approve it, we post and engage on LinkedIn on your behalf. We're on their building community and you never have to log in unless you want to. Here's a testimonial from a client that we got just a couple weeks ago. I'm reading it off of our website. She said, just want to reiterate how amazing it's been working with you and how happy I am with the content we're putting out on the channel and the credibility and engagement we're building.
00:20:36
Speaker
I've had so many people tell me how much they love what I've been putting on LinkedIn recently. When I tell them I have a team helping me, they can't believe it's not me. It's so in line with what I would write and truly comes from my voice. That is a great client of ours. She's a CEO and founder. To learn more, check out our website. I will throw it in the show notes. It's medberryagency.com. And I'll also include a link to book a 15-minute call with me. Thank you so much for listening. Back to the show.
00:21:08
Speaker
Totally. Before we keep going, I do want to say you guys were really kind and you sent me a couple of samples to try before our conversation and I love them and I am going to keep buying these products. So it worked on me.
00:21:22
Speaker
Thank you. I love it. So I'm really curious about I always like to ask about the first 18 months of starting a business.
Reflections on Odell's First 18 Months
00:21:31
Speaker
And what like what was the first year to 18 months like for you three? When did you start to hire? Did you hire right away? When did you bring on your first full time employee? How would you describe that time now that it's a little bit in the rearview mirror?
00:21:47
Speaker
Oh my goodness. We were the first year, right? You don't have product on shelves. It was concept. It was pitching. It was reverse pitching to the people who would help make it for us. And we were really lucky that we were able to do this all in our backyard, but it was really built over, pick off the nap time. Oh.
00:22:12
Speaker
We were navigating and nurturing this idea. And honestly, the fact that we sold ourselves on it, we were probably our own toughest critic. And we all have very different points of view, but kept coming back together excited about the next step as they kept happening. And once you start, things just keep going. And I would say that first year felt
00:22:35
Speaker
you know, a school project or like having that baby. I was like, I'm like, Odella is my fourth baby, right? Like you just birth this thing and you put it out into the world and there's some things that you can control and there's something that you can't and you hope that you are setting this thing up for success and to reach its
00:22:54
Speaker
best potential and so it was really insular that first year and then I'd say at that year-ish mark we got on shelf and that is when it was terrifying and exciting all the same and it was
00:23:11
Speaker
You know, I process things after the fact. One of my partners walk into the store and start crying. I think we launched with a product out of the gates. And you know, here we are surrounded by all these big brands with massive budgets. And you're just like the proof will be in the sales. And they started to come in and there was nothing like more rewarding than
00:23:35
Speaker
that and watching that and seeing that seeing through social seeing through people discovering seeing there's so many like feedback loops that we're we have access to on top of like the proof of sales and just like
00:23:51
Speaker
That was the most rewarding and fun thing was to see the discovery and people sharing it and people loving it. When I first found out you had three co-founders, I was curious about it because I think that's one hand I can imagine it being wonderful, especially during that first more insular year to feel like we are a team, we're in this together. But I also wonder as things grow, how have you guys had to navigate having it's not just one person or two of you, but it's three co-founders.
The Power of Co-founders' Dynamics
00:24:19
Speaker
What's that like?
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, I am incredibly grateful. I did not be on this journey solo. I don't think I could have done it, but I think our skill sets and our points of view are very different. At the same time, we really
00:24:35
Speaker
respect and appreciate and that's what makes us better together having considered all those points of view and so at times it could be hard when you fundamentally disagree I want to do this on this timing or I want to do that or you can't do that because we don't have XYZ it's been a gift.
00:24:50
Speaker
I think to be able to have that sounding board, have that partnership when things feel scary, have the support. We're like workwives. It's a very close relationship with a lot of respect.
00:25:09
Speaker
Because our skill sets are different, we do have to have explicit, OK, who's the decision maker on the phone? Like, you call it out. There's no time to be path diversely adjusted. We bring it up as it needs to be brought up and empower and support each other to run with what it is that each of us is driving.
00:25:26
Speaker
But it's been a it's been a gift to to be able to just say, you know, OK, you need to go on vacation like we got this. And so we help each other stay healthy as well. And you're never not thinking about a business that you've started, but I can sleep better at night knowing I have two partners that are also thinking about it.
00:25:48
Speaker
No, yeah, that sounds really interesting and nice. I remember I had Chris Cantwell on a year ago maybe, and he and his professional partner wrote the show Halton Catch Fire for AMC.
00:26:01
Speaker
He was, I was talking about that partnership and he said that they had made like a very conscious effort that their partnership was like their second marriage. And they had a lot of, I think like hard rules for each other about communication. And I found that so interesting. Has it been very more organic with you three or is it something where you're like, we have like a relationship meeting with the quarter and we talk about XYZ?
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, it is. I would totally agree with that statement because it was the three of us for so long. And now that we're building our team, we need more like better definition to what is something that evolved over time, but naturally so between the three of us. And we're having to better define our roles. We're having to so as to not create spin for the other people who are also working on this. Who do I go to for this or how do we decide that? And that has been
00:26:53
Speaker
learning, like we're literally in the midst of it right now, but I think we are getting there to create better boundaries and definition while also protecting our time and space together because that's what's got us to this point and we don't want to lose that. Yeah, definitely. What would be some good advice you could give folks who are in their first 12 to 18 months of starting a business?
Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
00:27:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think being curious, right? You're never gonna feel totally ready, never gonna be perfect. You just need to start and one thing will prompt the next. And there's so many things. We were all pretty tenured professionals in our past experiences, but nothing is gonna fully prepare you for building your own business. There are so many aspects to what you then need to do that you
00:27:46
Speaker
a hero need to address in a past life, right? Just standing up a company, building this brand, it just takes being curious and filtering opportunities, and I love talking. Reach out to people, talk to those who may have done this thing that you've never done before.
00:28:06
Speaker
take from it what you think applies or could apply to your business and go from there. So I think networking is huge. I think beauty in particular is an awesome industry with so many people willing to share a lot of people having been in your on this path, maybe just a year or two ahead of you or 10 years ahead, but it's a really inclusive, warm and welcoming industry and it's super fun.
00:28:31
Speaker
Trusting yourself and knowing that there's always there's no one true right way to do something But doing it is better than not doing it at all
00:28:41
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I feel like you just listed out lessons that like, I feel like I'm learning this year about. You got to start before you know everything. Yeah. The more you go out to try to learn, the more you realize you don't know. And so that can be paralyzing. And so you're like, you know what, like these baby steps, because you'll get to however far from now and be like, what just happened?
00:29:06
Speaker
I'm thinking back on that first year that you asked me and I'm like, I have no idea what we did. Every day, every week with something totally different, whether it was dealing with the contract manufacturer or packaging design or discerning between like a label look or no label or it's just like details that matter, but you wouldn't have anticipated until you got yourself to the point of needing to make decisions and move on. And I don't know if this will resonate for you, but I feel like one thing for me
00:29:36
Speaker
was that I was in executive roles for maybe seven years before I started Medbury. And I think, on one hand, you always have that experience, but you're also going to be a beginner at other things, at a spot where maybe you feel a little vulnerable, or maybe for me, even a false and unhelpful, but a bit of a feeling of pressure to prove myself because it sounded different than exact.
00:30:01
Speaker
And I think it was a good growth thing, a good growth experience for me, but also difficult at the time. I don't know if that resonates with me at all or maybe not. Oh, 100%. I think one of your, you're so wrapped up in the identity of what it means to be an executive or now a founder. Honestly, like one of the harder things was when I had nothing, right? When between starting Odell and leaving Target, I was like, I'm a mom.
00:30:30
Speaker
And I had been so conditioned to the adding value in the corporate world and the business world. And I think that was realizing that one, that is more than enough and two, probably the harder choice. Who you are isn't dependent just on the success of this brand. You're so much more than what you do, if that makes sense.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yes, totally. And I think it can be, it's one thing to know it and another thing to feel that. Yeah. And living in that, figuring out that spaces. Yeah. And protecting times for that as well. Did you feel in that first year, did you have a lot of
00:31:13
Speaker
Did it feel like a exciting fun time or did it feel like a dark time where you were a little bit like, I don't know if the work will try and see or maybe both at different times I'd imagine. Yeah, I was more excited.
00:31:30
Speaker
I was more excited, but it didn't feel like it had the weight and gravity of what it could be. It was like we saw the potential, but I didn't feel the pressure of, I will be a failure if this fails, right? I thought,