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Landon Eckles on Scaling Culture and Clarity with EOS
11 Plays1 month ago
What happens when a founder scales a franchise to 100+ locations in just five years—then hits a wall? In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Landon Eckles, former founder of Clean Juice and now a professional EOS implementer, to unpack the journey from entrepreneurial chaos to organizational clarity. Landon shares how the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) helped him regain focus, foster accountability, and build healthier teams—and how he now helps others do the same. From confronting hard truths to creating culture-fit teams and using scorecards to track what really matters, this conversation is packed with takeaways for leaders who want more than just growth—they want alignment, health, and traction.
About Landon:
Landon is a founder who implemented Entrepreneurial Operating Systems to scale and successfully exit the business. Landon understands the challenges entrepreneurs face firsthand. As a Professional EOS implementor and consultant, Landon helps businesses with 10 to 250 employees clarify their vision, gain traction, and build healthier teams. Landon leverages rich experience to guide leadership teams to break through barriers and achieve sustainable growth using the EOS.
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Transcript
Introducing the Podcast and Guest
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these fireside chats, we talk with people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes.
Landon Eccles on Business Scaling with EOS
00:00:19
Speaker
My guest today is Landon Eccles. Landon is a founder who implemented entrepreneurial operating systems to scale and successfully exit the business.
00:00:32
Speaker
Landon understands the challenges entrepreneurs face firsthand. As a professional EOS implementer and consultant, ah Landon helps businesses with 10 250 employees clarify their vision, gain traction, and build healthier teams.
00:00:48
Speaker
Landon leverages rich experience to guide leadership teams to break through barriers and achieve sustainable growth using EOS system.
Personal Life and Entrepreneurial Journey
00:00:58
Speaker
Welcome, Landon. I'm excited for our conversation today. Thanks, Curtis. I'm super pumped, too. Appreciate you having me.
00:01:04
Speaker
Before we dive in, you are a busy, busy man. Five kids. Yes. Five kids. Yep. my ah Everyone says you don't look old enough to have five kids, especially when I say that one's 18, right?
00:01:19
Speaker
right So wife and I got started pretty young. um We had our first in college. And yeah, so I've 18, 17, 11, 10, and eight-year-old kids.
00:01:30
Speaker
if yeah If work didn't keep you busy enough, congratulations on that. Thank you. So you're an EOS implementer. For those who do not know, what is an entrepreneurial operating system and what does your role look like in getting organizations started with an EOS?
Understanding EOS and Its Core Aspects
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah. So with EOS, we're really helping companies do three things, and I'll keep it pretty high level. The first one is vision. We're helping the typically the founding entrepreneur and his or her leadership team create the vision for the company, right?
00:02:04
Speaker
So that everyone in the business understands where that business is going and how they're going to get there. um Then we do something called traction, right? This is where we're helping. We're not just creating a vision. We're actually creating a plan and creating discipline and accountability so that everyone in the business understands what their role is in achieving that vision.
00:02:21
Speaker
And then the third thing is really healthy. When we start to work with leadership teams, we find that there's some things that they're typically not talking about yet.
From Founder to EOS Implementer
00:02:29
Speaker
They're still working on building trust with each other. We really help them get to a healthy place because that's really where the strongest leadership teams thrive.
00:02:38
Speaker
So but how how did you get into it? What was the path that got you into you know this role? yeah Your story is great, by the way. Everybody needs to hear it. i'm I'm grateful that we've actually had an opportunity to spend some time together, but I feel like everybody should hear this this story.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah. So what's cool is that i I've been on what I call both sides of the table, right? I first started as a founder entrepreneur. My wife and I founded a business called Clean Juice. And we opened our our first location in 2015.
00:03:08
Speaker
And by 2020, we had 100 opened across the country, which was insanity, right? Just five years of of growth, not just awarding units, which is what you typically see in franchising, but then also opening them.
00:03:21
Speaker
We're actually getting them open too. So we got these stores open and then... and then you know In five short years, we had 100 open stores, we had a bunch of franchisees, and then this little thing called COVID happened, and then we had all this inflation issues. And you know we just said, we're dealing with so much day in
Book Influence and Clean Juice Transformation
00:03:39
Speaker
and day out.
00:03:39
Speaker
And I had never managed a business that big on my own before as the founder. um And I was just really struggling in a lot of areas of the business. I mean i i had a hard time staying focused on what was important. i had a hard time clarifying roles. I had a hard time setting priorities, et cetera. It just felt like everything was important.
00:03:58
Speaker
Somebody handed me this book, Traction, and I read it in like a weekend. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is what we've been missing. And so I read the book. actually knew somebody who was an implementer. I called him. His name was Neil.
00:04:11
Speaker
I said, Neil, how do I do this? He said, well, we start out with a 90-minute meeting. I said, all right, let's do that 90-minute meeting. And the rest is history. you know i went through the implementation with him and my leadership team.
00:04:22
Speaker
For about three or four years, we worked together. Finally, i got to a place where I was able to sell the business, sold the business. And then I knew that I wanted to help other entrepreneurs really work.
00:04:33
Speaker
create that clarity that I was lacking, right? And that I needed so much and that EOS provided.
EOS Resources and Addressing Business Challenges
00:04:39
Speaker
And so I knew the framework, I've used it. um I've been on, you know, the others, what I call the other side of the table, right? And so I just thought that I'd be a great person to be able to help teams do this. And ah so far, so good. i' I'm really loving this ah career change.
00:04:54
Speaker
that's ah That's a transformative book. I actually, I have it right right up there on my shelf over there. was one of the first things that I think we talked about when we connected a little while ago. Just for everybody's, I guess, ah for some context, tell us, what is EOS worldwide?
00:05:10
Speaker
The organization. Yeah, so EOS Worldwide um is base was basically founded by Gino Wickman. ah Gino is the author of the book Traction. So most people have heard of the book Traction or they've read it.
00:05:23
Speaker
I think there's 3 million copies that have been sold so far. But EOS Worldwide is really putting out all the resources around EOS, all the different books, um all the different technology solutions and different things like that.
00:05:37
Speaker
But EOS Worldwide is also... um really licensing the everything that we do as implementers to us so that we can provide it to our clients. So EOS Worldwide brings in the implementers, makes sure the implementers have everything that they need to be successful so that then the implementers can serve their clients.
00:05:55
Speaker
So there are companies that just use some of the tools in EOS, and then there are other companies who work with an implementer and really get everything that EOS is into their business.
00:06:06
Speaker
So what what kind of clients, tell me about the kind of customers that come to EOS worldwide. what What are they trying to achieve? What problems are they trying to solve? How big are they? Do they fit into any particular buckets?
00:06:20
Speaker
They do. um Normally they are anywhere from 10 to 250 employees. so com They are typically frustrated with something, right? There's some kind of challenge or some kind of issue in the business that they've tried to wrap their heads around and they just can't, um they're they're stuck, right? They can't break through that ceiling is what we say.
00:06:40
Speaker
And they can get stuck in a lot of different ways. right Either the whole company gets stuck at $5 or $10 million in revenue, and they hit that for three years. And they're like, man, I just i know we can be a $20 million dollars business, but we're stuck at $10.
00:06:52
Speaker
right So we can get stuck from a company perspective. Sometimes departments can get stuck. right So operations maybe is doing great. Sales is doing great. But finance is just having a hard time keeping up with all the accounting.
00:07:05
Speaker
Or operations is doing great, finance is great, but sales just, we need more sales through the door, right? Or sometimes sales is doing great, finance is doing great, but operations just can't keep up with the demand. So in some way, these founders and their leadership teams are frustrated
Client Profiles and Business Needs
00:07:20
Speaker
and they need help. They want help, right? They're open to help. they're They're willing to be open and honest and vulnerable, and they're open to change. And once they're open to change, that's where we do our best work, right? If they're if they're in a place where there is some pain, but we have a solution, that's that's where we can do our best work.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, theoretically, right. Anybody who wants to solve a problem is first got to be willing to acknowledge that the problem exists. in one Step one, right? one So what about specific? What kind of organizations do you love to work with? Are there, you know, are there any more of like a sweet spot? Do any fit into that than more than others for you personally?
00:07:59
Speaker
So, you know, I have a background in retail and franchising. So I have a few clients that fit into those molds. um But I mean, I have everything from um ah commercial landscaping businesses to commercial cleaning businesses to a wine um a manufacturer to ah bunch of different types of businesses. So what's cool about EOS is that how I say it is if you have revenue, and if you have some people, at least 10-ish, you can run on EOS, right? So those are the those are the big criteria. So um you know I think that EOS works great in that sweet spot of kind of 10 to 250 employee size, but also like just wanting something more from your business that you're not yet getting today.
00:08:43
Speaker
So in your experience working with with these kinds of clients, you know how how frequently would you say these these more people-related challenges create the roadblocks to implementation of their EOS or or even any just strategic progress in general?
00:09:01
Speaker
Yeah, I like to be so bold as to say that Every issue or almost every issue in every business can be related back to two things. And it's either people or process and sometimes both.
00:09:14
Speaker
So people, I mean, that's that's we're dealing with people every single day, right? We're dealing with employees. We're dealing with investors. We're dealing with clients. We're dealing with customers. People is a massive part of what we do and a massive part of what we help our clients really work through is the people side of the business. In fact, it's a major component of their business is something we call people.
Accountability and Structuring in Business
00:09:36
Speaker
i I can see a world where you know if if people wind up being part of that huge problem, then lack of accountability probably is a huge part of that.
00:09:52
Speaker
For sure. You know, I think that a lot of times leadership teams, you know, will talk about, will start talking about issues in the business and people always comes up. Right. And they're like, oh man, I just wish people were were more more accountable.
00:10:06
Speaker
And so when you start to ask some questions about that, you're like, well, what what do you mean? What what do you want them to be more accountable for? And so, What I find is that most of the time, the team hasn't gone through and really created the right structure yet for the company, meaning everyone in the business understands where they sit on the bus, right? And what they're responsible for in that seat on the bus.
00:10:27
Speaker
They just want to be more accountable. But it's like, okay, what does that mean? And so we have to first start with creating the accountability. And and in EOS, we actually call it there. We have an accountability chart for that, right? Where we We're creating the right structure for the organization.
00:10:42
Speaker
And when we're talking about structure, it's always about people, right? What's the major function that they fulfill? And then what are the roles of that function? And then finally, what's the reporting mechanism? Who reports to who? You'll be amazed probably to hear this, but...
00:10:56
Speaker
So many times I will ask a a leadership team, they'll be talking about a certain person outside of the room. And I'll say, who does that person report to in this room? And like fingers go in all these different directions. I'm like, how do you expect that person to be accountable if they don't even know who they report to in this room? And you guys don't know who they report to, right?
00:11:16
Speaker
So there's so much that we have to do on the front end to create the right structure and accountability. Once we've done that, I think that's you know that's step number one. Do you, so that's really interesting to me, um especially because i I would imagine then there would be steps taken to determine, you know, who somebody needs to be accountable to, right? Some hierarchical process right there.
00:11:42
Speaker
Do you ever run into the situation where you'll wind up identifying that that hierarchy, right? Or, or you know, I'd be be able to identify that person to whom somebody needs to be accountable. And it's somebody that they haven't, you know, used to be, they're not used to being accountable to that particular person. They have either they're used to working more collaboratively on things, or it was reverse, you know, in terms of their reporting structure. Has that ever happened?
00:12:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah. i've seen I've seen a lot of things happen in those sessions. And so the really cool part of what we do is before we actually get into the individual people issues, we create the right structure. And in that, we're actually not talking about people at all yet. So all I care about is structure first. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's like, let's create, okay, you have 25 people in this business. What does the leadership team look like? Right. And then what does each, what does each department look like?
00:12:38
Speaker
And I'm not talking about names of people. I'm talking about functions in the, in the company. What are they doing? Right. What is their major function? What's their major responsibility? And then once we have that, then we can create the roles of that seat.
00:12:51
Speaker
And then finally we get, we, we get to put people into those seats. So, We like to take a structure first approach because it takes all of the emotion out of it. Right. We're just trying to create the right structure for the company.
00:13:03
Speaker
And then once we've done that, then we put the people in the seats. And that's where we see a lot of different issues like the one you just identified. Right. Maybe that person's never reported to that person before or they didn't understand that there was a reporting mechanism.
00:13:16
Speaker
That's the clarity that we're trying to drive because ultimately, if somebody doesn't know who to go talk to to help as as they need help in their position, they're always going to be stuck. Right. So we're just trying to create clarity and speed in the business.
00:13:29
Speaker
I would imagine then that there are times when when responsibilities for an individual, after you create that structure and the responsibilities in each of those buckets or seats,
00:13:41
Speaker
when you start putting names there, there might be responsibilities that change, right? Which would make people uncomfortable or more comfortable, I guess. I've seen it both ways, but I think i think it's it's typically more of a a positive than a negative.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. I think that people want – I think generally people want more structure and accountability because they want to know what they need to do well at, right? I mean that's just kind of human nature. It's like I want to know what the rules of the game are so that I can go in and win the game, right? Yeah, yeah.
00:14:12
Speaker
If I go to play a game and I only know half the rules, I'm always going to feel like I'm either being held back or am I doing this right? Or am I supposed to be doing this? And so we're just creating the rules of the game. And so that way, when they go and play the game, they know exactly how to win it, how to be a good employee, what is really good look like. And I think if you haven't done that yet, it's hard to create hard to create an organization of a culture of of accountability in the business.
00:14:37
Speaker
And theoretically, I mean, it's being structured in a way to help them
Cultural Fit and Leadership Challenges
00:14:41
Speaker
succeed. So you're you're not necessarily putting them in a position to make them um to try and make them uncomfortable or to fail because obviously we want to do this so the business can succeed. Yeah. would you Would you ever classify accountability as a talent issue, culture issue, something else, all the above?
00:14:58
Speaker
I think accountability actually stems from a leadership issue, right? We have to, like, i think that people, i think employees want to understand what they're responsible for, right? So that they can do those things well.
00:15:13
Speaker
I think that the lack of accountability and clarity just comes from, and I wouldn't say poor leadership, I'd say just not understanding what great leadership looks like, right? yeah So we help to drive accountability by first.
00:15:25
Speaker
Once we create this accountability chart, well, guess what? We show all the employees what the accountability chart is, right? We show them the whole thing so they can see where I sit in the seat, what that seat's responsible for, what Johnny's doing, what Sarah's doing, right? It just creates total organizational clarity.
00:15:42
Speaker
And then around that, like each seat has roles. okay In those roles, I'm responsible for X. Those things then become scorecard items that we're tracking every single week. right So it's like it's all a web of really understanding the right and best way to create accountability in the business.
00:15:59
Speaker
Because ultimately, people want to know what they're responsible for. They want to know what they need to do good at. And if we're not if If we're not as leaders telling them those things and giving them the right structure around it, then we're not doing our best as a leadership team. You you used a word a little while ago, which was, i think, kind of in ah in in a direction that I wanted to to go in, um you know thinking about culture, right? Having that accountability structure, I think, you know ultimately can, I think, breed a really positive culture. If everybody's on the same side of the table working towards the same
00:16:34
Speaker
you know, and a goal, but some people, you know, maybe aren't a great culture fit. Some people are, you know, a really great culture fit. What, what are leaders supposed to do then?
00:16:48
Speaker
And and yeah how would you identify when somebody is not a fit? Well, I think, you know Jim Collins really did a great job in his book, Good to Great, really talking about you got to have right people in the business and right seats. So, so far, I've just been talking about the seats, making sure that we're clear on the function, the roles and the reporting.
00:17:11
Speaker
But if you try to put the wrong person in the right seat, meaning they're really good at those things in the box, but we just they just don't fit our culture, then they're never going to be great employees because they're never going to fit in. They're never going to They're never going to feel like they fit in. You're never going to feel like they fit in. And what i when I'm saying fit in, what do i what am I talking about?
00:17:29
Speaker
I'm talking about an alignment really with with culture, which is the core values, right? Every company needs to have core values that aren't just pretty and put up on the wall or on the mouse pad, right? But they're actually things that we are expecting our employees to...
00:17:45
Speaker
have to share um the way that they treat each other and our customers, right? Culture is is is that stuff. And we got to make sure that we're analyzing our people to make sure that they are culture fits. So if we have five values, we got to make sure all of our employees are mostly aligned with those values. Because if they're not, they're never even if they're good at the job, they're never going to fit in with the business.
00:18:07
Speaker
They got to be right people for that company. and just because they don't align with the, with the, with those core values, it doesn't mean they're bad people. It's just, they just don't align, right? There's, there's no good or, or bad or wrong or, or, you know, nothing like that. It's just like, Hey, they either fit in with the culture that we're trying to create or they don't.
00:18:24
Speaker
And if they don't, they're, they're never going to work out in the long run. You ever see anything that like business leaders like routinely overlook while trying to fix their culture issues?
00:18:34
Speaker
Anything that they keep missing or that you see as a pattern? Yeah, I think that it's really hard to let go of a top performer who doesn't fit into the culture.
00:18:48
Speaker
Right. And that's like one of the hardest issues to solve, because to solve is if they don't if they don't possess the same core values that the business does. Right. Let's say they're completely far apart.
00:19:01
Speaker
Um, even if they're good at the job, they're never going to be, they're never going to be, a, a right fit in the business because they just don't align. And so one way or another, they're not going to work there very long.
00:19:14
Speaker
And so, and if they do, you know, the unfortunate thing is that they're probably going to be disgruntled and they're probably going to be doing more damage on the backend than they are. actually good in their job. So that's the hardest thing I think I've seen so far is just, it's really hard to let go of a good performer when they're not a good culture fit, because you don't want to lose that performance. But at the end of the day, they're, you know, they're, they're probably doing more, more harm than good. And it's really hard for the business owner to see that.
Data and Performance Measurement in EOS
00:19:42
Speaker
Could not agree more with that statement. um Quick shift to some data. It's a key component to successful EOS implementation. What kind of information is important to you and the organizations that you're working with? what are you measuring?
00:19:58
Speaker
Yeah. So in the data component, you know, what we want to do is we want to build what I call the the cockpit of the airplane, right? So you walk into an airplane, you see all the dashboards and the instruments and the clusters.
00:20:11
Speaker
If you go to take off in an airplane and you have none of that, you have no idea, right? How low you're flying, how far you're going, right? You know nothing. All you know is that you're flying, right? Yeah. So we got to create that instrument cluster for the business.
00:20:26
Speaker
And so typically it revolves around some kind of sales metrics or some kind of revenue metrics, some kind of production metrics, whether it's a product or a service that we're we're creating, um on-time deliveries, all that kind of stuff.
00:20:40
Speaker
And then there's typically some kind of finance component to it. So... um Really good scorecards are about 5 to 15 weekly numbers that we're looking at every single week to make sure that those things are on track, to make sure that our plane is flying at the right altitude, in the right direction, so that we're going to get to our destination.
00:20:59
Speaker
And for every you know for every business that I work with, their scorecard obviously looks a little bit different, but those are the big buckets, right? What are the sales metrics? What are the operations metrics? What are the finance metrics? And sometimes there's you know a little bit of mixture in there.
00:21:13
Speaker
what about What about people dynamics? Are there any kind of ah people dynamics that tend to show up in this in this data, even when clients maybe don't recognize them as as a root issue or or you know something?
00:21:28
Speaker
I would say that people... i would say that if if So what happens is if a scorecard item is continually off track, I would just ask the question, well, who owns that scorecard item?
00:21:41
Speaker
And it's like, well, John owns it. It's like, well, how do you guys think that's going? Right. So that typically opens up a conversation about John's performance, but the scorecard, because the other thing that I didn't mention is that in the scorecard, we have these different measurables that we're measuring, but most importantly, and it's a good catch on you, we have an owner of each one of those scorecards, right?
00:22:03
Speaker
So each person owns one of those items. And if let's say I have you know three items and two out of three of them are constantly off track, I'm probably not performing well in my job.
00:22:14
Speaker
So it does give a bit of a performance glimpse as to what you know as to how they're doing. Got it. And I think that that's kind of a critical distinction there to keep in mind is these aren't just general organizational numbers you know that are, yeah, and they're they're actual specific to ah human being that has a role and is in a seat.
00:22:34
Speaker
you know That's right. um Exactly. Any early sort of warning signs in the data or frankly anywhere else in your work as an EOS implementer that tend to go along with team misalignment, high turnover, underperformance, things like that?
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a lot of different things that I've seen. I think that when there is high turnover, all on all I'm hearing is that there's probably not a lot of alignment on the leadership team. There's probably not a lot of accountability on the leadership team. They're frustrated because they want their teams to be accountable, but they don't really know how to do it.
00:23:08
Speaker
And they haven't created the right culture. So, you know, that's typically what I see. I actually think that companies running on EOS have less turnover because they've worked on all of those things, yeah you know.
00:23:19
Speaker
I would imagine so like even Yeah. And even in a company that is you know very high performance driven, cetera, there are people out there that match those things, right? So when EOS works really well, people aren't just using their core values to you know analyze their folks that are in the business. They're using those values to make sure that they're hiring in the right people, right?
00:23:43
Speaker
Let's say they've got five values. They're like, hey, Curtis, these are our five values. How do you feel about them? Tell me a time when you were X value or Y value, right? So they're using the values to make sure they're bringing in the right people because that's going to lead to less turnover.
00:23:57
Speaker
Be really upfront with who you are and be unapologetic about it. you You talked a little bit about leadership, right? Obviously being a key ah key piece of this puzzle.
00:24:09
Speaker
Any traits stand out to you in leaders that are getting it right? Like what do they do differently other than being able to identify those things that are really important to them and trying to create that culture? Because a lot of leaders do that, but some still, you know, still aren't able to nail it.
00:24:24
Speaker
So what's different about those that are really excelling? my best leadership teams do one thing better than the rest. And that is they are completely open and honest with each other, right?
00:24:37
Speaker
They get into a room and if something is bothering them or if something doesn't feel right, rather than it letting be a feeling in their stomach, they're actually articulating it to the team, right? Even if it's even if it's something that they're causing, right? So they're just, they're totally willing to be open and honest and upfront with performance with whatever the issue is at hand.
00:25:00
Speaker
They don't hold things back. um They're great with conflict because they're obsessed with conflict resolution. You can't have conflict resolution without conflict. yeah So my best leadership teams are okay with conflict because they want to they want to get to a resolve.
00:25:17
Speaker
And I think that like trust and clarity and alignment really are, are part of that, right. um You know, between leaders specifically, you know, um probably those, those things also really influence, I think, very measurable outcomes.
00:25:37
Speaker
How does EOS help leaders be better at that and, and more successful or, or can it, or is this something that they're simply born with or not? I think that EOS definitely helps. And I think it's it's all about the implementer who's in the room.
00:25:51
Speaker
So 15% of what all of us do. And remember, there's 800 of me's out there helping companies implement EOS. Great partner, Landon Eccles here. it um and So that's 15% of what we do. We all teach the same curriculum.
00:26:06
Speaker
The 85% of what we do is all about the facilitation. So Curtis, if I'm looking at you and you're clearly like we're in a session and I can just see that there's something not right, or maybe you know there's some body language that's off or a little comment here or there.
00:26:22
Speaker
I have to ask a question about it, right? I got to enter that danger and and get be okay with a tough or an awkward conversation. that That's where we do our best work. And really, if we're not having those conversations, I'm not doing my job very well um because they're hard to have on your own, right? So we help facilitate tough conversations so that the leadership team can then go and do it on their own and and get more comfortable in the uncomfortable.
Tools and Technology in EOS Implementation
00:26:48
Speaker
That's really good advice. I don't know that enough teams really kind of take that to heart. I think i think a lot of leaders know that, um but I'm not sure a lot of leaders live that.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, well said. I think that that's that's really, really good advice. um So quick shift to technology. What kind of tools, programs, software, people systems should leaders be bringing into their stack to, i think, help sort of drive these desired outcomes?
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah. It's okay if mustard part of your answer. but Yeah. Well, I think, you know, mustard is obviously awesome. You guys are really, really good at what you do. And, um you know, the the the one thing tool that i use a lot is EOS is a great tool, but there are software tools that actually help to implement EOS into the business in the day to day. So EOS one.
00:27:42
Speaker
So like yeah EOS has its own software tool. There's a tool called 90 that I used in my business and a lot of my clients use. That just helps to run those weekly level 10 meetings to input the scorecard items, update the rocks and the priorities. You can actually build out the accountability chart. So that's a great tool on the EOS side of things.
00:28:03
Speaker
um But there's you know there's a lot of good tools out there. There's good tools around process. There's good tools around you know building and rewarding people like what you guys do. I mean, there's a lot of really cool tools out there.
00:28:15
Speaker
I think that the right technology is really going to be dependent on the business, but every company should be using technology to improve, especially the people part of their business, for sure.
00:28:27
Speaker
Any new or or surprising ways that entrepreneurs are sort of leveraging tools or software to support their people or or make smarter choices, I think, when it comes to building teams? Well, i you know I mean, obviously the big the big trend right now is AI, right? So there's a lot of AI that's being used in the business. But, you know, ai is intelligence, but it's not grit, determination, hard work, right? All those things that human beings have. And so I think that, you know, being...
00:28:58
Speaker
hardworking, being ah great culture fit, being all the things that we need our people to be outside of intelligence is actually going to become even more important because intelligence, you know, from here on out is, is, is going to be inexpensive, right? AI is very, very smart. That's not what we're looking for.
00:29:15
Speaker
We're looking for people who fit our culture, who align, who, are gritty, are helping to move the business forward, right? That's really what we're looking for. So I think that, I don't think AI is going to replace people. It's it's going to help us get smarter faster. Yeah.
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think, so I mean, it is it is, you know, in theory, it's it's infinite knowledge, um which is is kind of interesting because where do you often see the disconnect between what companies are measuring and what actually drives long-term performance? You know, you talk about creating these you You know, these scorecards, you know, a dashboard, these metrics, right, to be able to measure performance. But I would imagine that there's organizations out there you see measuring things that, frankly, may not really move the needle.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah. I'd say the first time we go through this exercise and we put together the scorecard, um it's, I call it ah the the little hill in the backyard. They think that they've built Mount Rushmore, but it's like, it's baby steps, right? It takes three to six months to really understand the things that Every company needs to be measuring to make sure that the business is on track. So it does take time. You don't you don't set it and forget it. A scorecard is evolving as the business grows, scales, etc.
Aligning Roles with Strengths
00:30:31
Speaker
It's going to change. But one person just needs to be obsessed with thinking about what are the right things we need to be measuring to be moving the company forward.
00:30:39
Speaker
All right. so then So then focusing maybe people-related insights specifically. What type of people-related insights do SMB leaders think they want versus what they actually need to drive better outcomes? Do you ever see some disparity?
00:30:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think that, um I think there's a few things. I think that first, we got to get really clear on the seat, right? What is the, what is the, what are the things that the seat needs to do? And then if Jimmy's in that seat, does he have those tangibles to be able to fulfill those seats, right?
00:31:17
Speaker
So like, if Jimmy is really, really good you know accounting and he's a black and white kind of a guy and we have him in this super creative artsy role, like probably not going to do very well. right and so so and So the people have to, what we call GWC the seat, they have to get the seat, want the seat, and they have the capacity to do the seat well.
00:31:39
Speaker
So I think that you know if we go through all this exercise of creating the right accountability chart, and we do it right, but then we try to fit a you know a round peg into a square hole, it's never going to work, right? Yeah.
00:31:52
Speaker
With EOS, and from everything I've learned from from you and about the process, I can only imagine that just about every client that you have, I would imagine there are breakthrough moments, right? where Where some of the leaders either gain some incredible amount of clarity, an aha moment or or something like that, right? Or maybe even there's an inflection point as it's being implemented or through the process, right? Where you're measuring, um you know, the effects of of implementation and things like that on on growth and performance that they notice some just, you know, either in some some sort of incredible learning moment.
00:32:37
Speaker
I want to hear about one of the, you don't have to share any names. You can, if you want, but I would love to hear about what some, just because I feel like you more than probably most of the people we talk to see it so often because your role is transformative.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah. um I can give you a lot of examples, but I would say probably the biggest breakthrough is, and I'll give you kind of the genre, is when somebody in the room gets honest with somebody else in the room when they haven't been for six months right or a year. Or there has been the there's been this cloud, this thing that's been hanging over them, and they just haven't had the courage to say it.
00:33:16
Speaker
And they finally do. And no matter what the outcome is, like it it's finally off their chest. It's finally out in the open. It's finally a thing that instead of us just feeling a certain way, we're actually talking through it.
00:33:28
Speaker
So I'll give you an example. i had a call um with a business owner. And She had told me that she was having issues with her CFO. It's a long time thing.
00:33:42
Speaker
They've had little discussions here and there. um you you know by By the end of our first day together, that CFO, and i mean we basically got to the conclusion that... And he had agreed, like, I'm not the right guy for this role. And I think it's time for me to retire from this business.
00:33:58
Speaker
And they had... they had like that that that issue had been on the table. That tumultuous situation had been there for six months to a year. They just had never addressed it head on.
00:34:09
Speaker
And by the end of one day, we got to a conclusion and both parties were actually happy with it and understood that that's what needed to happen.
Future of EOS and Business Dynamics
00:34:16
Speaker
So, you know, I'd say those are the breakthrough moments. After one day?
00:34:21
Speaker
One day. yeah and imagine Imagine what could happen just going through the entire thing. So, I want to think ahead a little bit, you know, yeah ah people inside cultural competency that tomorrow's leaders are going to have to develop in order to thrive.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yep. So what are those things? Yeah. What are those things? Or what is the thing? Yeah, I think so much time, and I've talked about this a lot, but I don't think it can be understated.
00:34:55
Speaker
Like in business, we try to be really smart. We try to get focused on the right priorities and the right, you know, what's the right strategy. And we think about all this stuff that I call being smart, right?
00:35:06
Speaker
But we spend so little time on being healthy, right? And it's really in the healthiness or the unhealthiness of our business where we're going to make breakthrough or not. And so I think that business...
00:35:19
Speaker
businesses and business owners and business leaders, they try to think about the right strategies and they try to think about you know all the stuff that they need to do when really they got to be thinking about, hey, am I having the right conversations? Am I being open and honest? Are there things that I'm holding back from the team because I'm uncomfortable having that conversation?
00:35:39
Speaker
And I think that the best leaders are the ones who embrace those things. And you know as we say, enter that danger.
00:35:48
Speaker
You know, EOS is growing yeah a lot, right? And, you know, I especially, i think over the past five years, 10 years, you know, business leaders have been investing more and more into their people and into their teams.
00:36:06
Speaker
As they start to invest more intentionally, but because it's only going to grow, how do you see your own work evolving to sort of meet that that shift and that need? Yeah.
00:36:17
Speaker
Well, I think what's really cool about what we do is, you know, I work with clients in full day sessions and I only have so much inventory, right? only have so many days that I can book out with clients. So there's a lot of us, but I don't even think we're scratching the surface yet on how many implementers there could be um who are helping, you know, our target market client, which is that 10 to 250 employee size, small to medium size business.
00:36:42
Speaker
Um, so I think that, you know, there's a ton of opportunity. There are so many people who are curious about EOS. Maybe they've read traction or they've heard of a theory around a level 10 meeting, or they, they have some rocks in the business and priorities that they're trying to move forward.
00:36:57
Speaker
Um, but I think, you know, for, for us, like the more the merrier, like we're, we're an abundance mindset organization. Um, If we so like if if I'm talking to a client and another implementer is talking to a client, we don't think of it as a competition. We just want the client to pick the the right fit for them.
00:37:15
Speaker
So I think, you know, we we just lean heavy into that because there is so much opportunity out there. There aren't enough implementers to help meet the demand of the clients who want to run on EOS with an implementer.
00:37:27
Speaker
So it's just all about, you know, finding the right fit. Are there any aspects um of people dynamics that you think may um may change as the business landscape evolves? I mean, you know in five years, right, we'll probably see close to or over 60% of the U.S. workforce involved in the gig economy, right?
00:37:49
Speaker
the The sheer volume of deskless workers, right, and and remote teams. How does that influence what you do? Yeah, I think, um I mean, it's always going to be evolving and changing and there's always going to be different things that we've we've got to think about. But I don't think it changes the basics or the fundamentals. Right.
00:38:11
Speaker
there are going to be people in the business, right? Maybe they're doing different things. Maybe instead of, you know, needing the one to be inputting the, the, the numbers on the spreadsheet, they're managing the AI that's putting the numbers on the spreadsheet, right?
00:38:25
Speaker
People are still going to be involved. And so going back to the basics, Hey, are they good at that seat? Right. Do they want that seat? Are they good culture fits? And so, you know, There's been so much, if you think about technology change over the last 20 or 30 years since EOS has been around, but EOS is thriving, you know, more today than than ever.
00:38:47
Speaker
And it's because the basics never change. Right. And we get really, really good at helping our, helping our leadership teams get really good at the basics. That's good. And, you know, so. That's, that's, I think that a lot of people forget, or maybe they don't understand that you know, might not matter where your desk is, might not matter what your employment classification is, right? If you have a responsibility to the organization, right? Everybody's contributing to it somehow. Everybody has a role. Everybody has a responsibility and those things can be addressed with EOS.
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. but time What mindset mindset shift, I think, would you most like to see from some business leaders today when it comes to culture, communication, accountability? you know i'm I'm kind of curious what you'd say to that.
00:39:42
Speaker
i think um I think that the hardest thing for leadership teams pre-EOS to determine is what is the culture of our business, right? but Every company talks about culture like it's this you know ominous kind of thing that it's so... like We talk about it but it's so hard to define.
00:40:00
Speaker
We define those things in core values, right? And we just got to make sure that our employees align with those things. And it's not that complicated, right? like I think everyone... a human beings.
00:40:11
Speaker
our our Our tendency is to overcomplicate things and it's my job to uncomplicate them. And so when we're thinking about culture, I'm going to the core values and i'm saying, hey, these are the these are your core values. Is this truly the guiding principles that you want from your people? Yes, it is.
00:40:29
Speaker
Great. Then we just got to make sure everyone aligns with these these values. and we go through an exercise on that. When it comes to accountability, hey, do we have the right roles filled out for each seat? Do people clearly and understand what it is that they're responsible for? If they do,
00:40:44
Speaker
Well, then maybe they don't get or want to see. Right. So it's like everything has a place. Everything has has an explanation. It's just finding finding that root cause.
00:40:56
Speaker
So before we go, always curious to hear. Right. You're sitting on a plane, you're about to exit the jetway. Right. or And you're sitting next to a business leader.
00:41:10
Speaker
who needs your advice and asks you for your single most important piece of advice about managing people, right? He just grabs his bag. He's about to head down and you have one thing that you can say to him in the next 10 seconds. What is that?
00:41:26
Speaker
About managing his people. And he really wants to get it right from day one. Yeah. I would say, The number one thing that leaders hold back on is creating health in the organization.
00:41:44
Speaker
So stop trying to be smart and focus on getting healthy with your team. And in that healthiness, you'll create breakthrough. Um, that's, that's the number one thing that I see. It's not about being smart. It's about being healthy. And most teams are not.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:41:59
Speaker
I love that. I love that. And I love the book recommendations that we, uh, that we touched on traction, good to great. um those were some Those were some key ones that that I've read too. So Landon, thank you. i appreciate you you know being here with me today. These were some really, really amazing insights.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah, super stoked to be here. Thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation. If you want to find Landon online or learn more about EOS implementation, visit EOS Worldwide ah slash Landon Eccles.
00:42:32
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into Mustard Hub Voices behind the build. I'm sure you got a lot out of this conversation. I know I did. Please share it with the entrepreneurs and business leaders in your life.
00:42:43
Speaker
While you're at it, check out mustardhub.com to see how we can help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. Until next time.
00:42:55
Speaker
Thank you.