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Episode 11 - Dinosaurs Rule the World
18 Plays23 days ago
Jerrica and Janeil build a world in which the dinosaurs never went extinct, humans never existed, and evolution favored a new creature to become the dominant race. These aren’t your average Jurassic park raptors!
Astonishingly, there is only one Power Rangers reference. How is that possible!?
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Transcript
Introduction & Prompt Discussion
00:00:18
Speaker
Hey, welcome back to Somewhere Elsewhere, world building and actual play podcast. I am Janiel. And I, as always, am Jerrica.
00:00:31
Speaker
And today we have a prompt. We have... who? From who? Today we have a prompt from our good friend Liz over on the Discord.
00:00:43
Speaker
We get to play with dinosaurs, Jerrica. Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs never died out and became the dominant species.
Dinosaurs as Dominant Species
00:00:50
Speaker
Uh-oh. So right off the bat, we have to learn dinosaur names. I only know a handful of them.
00:00:58
Speaker
We can make them up. We can make. It'd make him up. Well, like, the dinosaur people out there, dinosaur lovers, are gonna want us to sing, say some names. Listen, so, like... We can... We can... We have Googles. We have the Googles. We can... Yeah. We can look up dinosaurs based on their appearance. Like, for right now, for world building, I guess these specific species are not important. We worry about that in the actual play.
00:01:24
Speaker
This is true. So, first thing we need to decide... Are there people? So, I... Okay, so the prompt says specifically, dinosaurs ever died out and became the dominant species.
00:01:42
Speaker
So, if there are people, they are not dominant. Right. So, like, they but they didn't become the intelligent species, didn't become the dominant species, they the dinosaurs did.
Coexistence and Evolutionary Paths
00:01:52
Speaker
Um... like...
00:01:55
Speaker
Go ahead. Right off the bat, I'm picturing fucking like dinosaurs, the series, where they had the fucking cavemen walking around. Yep, that's what I was going to say. simple Yeah, the simple animals. That's exactly what I was going to say. Just animals living out. I watching couple episodes of that, and they're like they're basically the equivalent of raccoons. like They're were going through the trash and shit. Yeah. um So...
00:02:20
Speaker
I don't want to do that. No, I don't. So I kind of want to lean away from having people because... So if we want to go... So this is like an alternate Earth automatically, right? So like we have dinosaurs that didn't die out.
00:02:32
Speaker
Dinosaurs and humans are separated by millions of years. Even the first humans. The first like apes, essentially, that have become humans. um So like even like mammals. There were mammal descendants around when there were dinosaurs. Yeah. There might been a few at the tail end of like the dinosaur
Intelligent Dinosaurs and Societies
00:02:52
Speaker
era. I think like the William Mammoth's like mastodons might have overlapped a little bit towards the end.
00:02:58
Speaker
i I thought those were separated quite by a good distance, too. All I know is that Power Rangers had dinosaurs, they had saber-toothed tiger, and mastodon. Well, I'm also a big fan of ah Primal, but we don't have big cavemen riding dinosaurs, so unfortunately we don't have that. I have not watched that. Primal's excellent. We should watch that. The ending is okay, but I don't like... that's the risk anybody takes. Yes.
00:03:25
Speaker
But anyway, I'm kind of leaning towards a world where there are no humans because it took a a different evolutionary path. Instead of favoring mammals to become the dominant species, like, you... but let Think of of, like, the world's most intelligent animals.
00:03:39
Speaker
They're all mammal. You have orcas. You have dolphins. You have... Well, corvids are smart, but they're they're avian. But, like, you have a lot of smart mammals. Yeah.
00:03:52
Speaker
It seems like evolution kind of favored mammals being like more like an intelligent yeah path of evolution. Weird. It is weird. like But anyway, like I'm not saying that all non-mammal species are dumb. like If you look at modern lizards, are they're scary smart.
00:04:06
Speaker
Anyway. Okay. So if we're going to do no humans, I don't want to do the thing where dinosaurs are super smart and can talk and... And build cities and everything. I don't think that would happen.
00:04:22
Speaker
No. Dominant species means they're at the top of the food chain. Exactly. And that's all that means. So... if we go with no humans, then we've got a world with no people. Mm-hmm.
00:04:38
Speaker
It's just animals. Mm-hmm. So that's what was kind of thinking, like, staying away from humans, because if there are humans there, they are, like, they might as well be just monkeys and apes. Yeah. Like, beginning of humans, like... They wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to. Right. Yeah. And they are easy food for predatory dinosaurs. Mm-hmm. So... also can't imagine, like...
00:05:04
Speaker
If you think of a lot of classic ancient mammal species, like your mastodons, your saber-toothed tigers, um they're all kind of... Giant sloths. Giant sloths. They're all kind of, like, together.
00:05:18
Speaker
Speaking, like, time-wise, like, very broad timeline-wise, they were all after the dinosaurs. So, like, do we still have those in this dinosaur planet? Do we have saber-toothed tigers? Do we have mammoths and mastodons? Well, do we have an ice age?
00:05:31
Speaker
Because if there was no asteroid to kill the dinosaurs, the Ice Age probably would have. Because they're still reptiles. Well, I think like the ice age i think the common theory is that the Ice Age came as the result of the comet, didn't it?
00:05:46
Speaker
It altered Earth's climate. So basically, the the the common theory the the common theory of the comet killing the dinosaurs, the initial explosion didn't just obliterate all the dinosaurs. No. It was slow death for the dinosaurs.
00:06:00
Speaker
Like, the comet hit, big dust storm, like, that initial thing choked down a lot of species. But, like, what happens to the dinosaurs on the other side the planet? I'm sure there was, like... a change up of the weather and change up of the environment and the climate in general. So like
Adapting and Surviving Environmental Changes
00:06:17
Speaker
that sudden change killed off a lot of the dinosaurs.
00:06:20
Speaker
And because of that change, there was like a ah like a big cool down that led to the ice age. that I think that's all stemming from the comet. I i believe so. ok me It could be a different fluctuation. well like I understand like what would cause... I mean, we can Google it. Or we can you just say that that is what it is in this world.
00:06:40
Speaker
That it did it. That's what did it. Or didn't do It didn't happen. But there was a major environment and climate change because of the comet.
00:06:52
Speaker
So i'm not sure if you ever heard of the Yellowstone Supervolcano. I don't think so so. there's a super volcano underneath essentially all of Yellowstone. All the geysers and all that shit is a result of underground hydrothermal activity. Yeah, that's not actually... No, that's not... So they said if that ever went off, um that would cause like another global disaster because you would have...
00:07:16
Speaker
The ash and plume, whatever, or what have you, ash plume go up in the atmosphere, block out the sun for months, and that might affect the ah climate globally.
00:07:28
Speaker
So, like, it's that kind of shit that disrupts the entire Earth. ah Sort of like what happened in 19th century. where there was a volcano eruption and it did just that.
00:07:43
Speaker
And like temperatures dropped in, it was June and temperatures dropped yeah and it got dark. I know this um because ah Mary Shelley and Lord Byron and Percy Shelley, when they did their little vacation in Italy or whatever, or France or wherever they, how they were, I can't remember um where she wrote Frankenstein. Mm-hmm.
00:08:06
Speaker
ah That was during that period. Okay. Volcanoes really fuck shit, especially big volcanoes. Like, Mount St. Helens, that did a lot shit. Like, ash traveled for hundreds and hundreds, of like, maybe thousands of miles.
00:08:19
Speaker
ah But anyway, long story short, sum of that up, comets are bad. So, like, maybe the comet never hit. This version of Earth. It just whizzed on by. So there was no comet, no disruption of the climate on Earth, at least not yet.
00:08:34
Speaker
So that left the dinosaurs to flourish. So becoming the dominant species... Oh, I always think there's like... well Weren't they, though, in their time? Already. Yeah, they are were already. So like...
00:08:46
Speaker
I guess what would happen to dinosaurs if instead of millions and millions of years later that there's humans that have everything now, what would millions and millions and millions of years do to dinosaurs?
00:08:59
Speaker
i Evolution has to happen, right? like i can't see them getting more... i can see certain species getting very intelligent, like your velociraptors. like You probably have birds.
00:09:12
Speaker
Lots of birds. That are big, And intelligent. A world of giant terrifying corvids. Or giant terrifying chickens.
00:09:25
Speaker
mean, can't say giant terrifying chickens and actually take it seriously, but... I mean, the T-Rex was a giant terrifying chicken. Okay. Fine. Um, okay. So, let's think about this.
00:09:38
Speaker
But wouldn't there be, like, a ah population problem? And a a food source problem? Well, dinosaurs just eat each other. They're still beasts. That's true. and They would eat each other.
00:09:50
Speaker
I imagine, like, there are certain species that are maybe dolphin-intelligent or orca-intelligent, where they hunt in packs and they're very just strategic. And, like, core of it is problem-solving-intelligent, where they, like, mimic speech. Like, they mimic noises to attract prey or call for each other.
00:10:07
Speaker
im trying to think of, like, how animals behave now. Like, orcas are terrifying how smart they are, how they hunt. They do, like, talk to each other. They orchestrate hunts.
00:10:18
Speaker
They surgically remove the livers of sharks because they think livers are tasty. You ever heard of that? No! Orcas are terrifying, man. They will actually... They will actually... Yeah, great white sharks, they aren't the apex predators of the ocean. It's the orcas.
00:10:33
Speaker
They will go after large sharks, disorient them, and then basically cut a hole in them and eat their livers. And leave the rest of the shark.
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm not bullshitting you. Well, there's a reason why they're called killer whales. Yeah, orcas are fucking terrifying. So, yeah. So, like, I can imagine... Sorry, Willy. Yeah. ah So, I can imagine, like, you have land pairs. Again, Jurassic Park did not...
00:10:59
Speaker
They did a lot of things wrong, right? Like, i still I'm still bothered by the way they did velociraptors. They don't look like giant lizards. say like Maybe the science at the time made them look like giant lizards, but now we know they're feathered in of Well, yeah, but they addressed that in Jurassic World.
00:11:15
Speaker
I have not seen Jurassic World. oh So, yeah. that they They address that. They say that, like, yeah, like, you didn't want accurate. You wanted... Big lizards. Yeah. Yeah. um So, yeah. So, like, we're talking intelligent velociraptors, I'm talking, like, slightly bigger than a chicken, covered in feathers, very fast, and some predatory animals.
00:11:36
Speaker
So there is a lot of evidence that points to them being very intelligent. Yeah. They're your first corvids, essentially. They could solve problems and maybe even hunt it and together um because they're so small. i mean, you could overwhelm a big animal if you hunt together.
00:11:53
Speaker
So like I can imagine, like... Not saying intelligent as like forming speech or whatever, but I'm talking they became intelligent like orcas or corvids. They became smart like that. But after millions and millions of years, they would stay.
00:12:08
Speaker
They wouldn't evolve further. That's what I'm saying. like that's why i'm saying Instead of dinosaurs, quote, quote, millions years later, you just have a lot of fucking intelligent birds. You might still have, like, your T-Rexes or something similar. They might not be T-Rexes anymore.
00:12:23
Speaker
But giant predatory things walking around that are closely resembling birds are feathered. Some of them might be flightless. So you have a giant flightless toothy bird running around.
00:12:36
Speaker
Let me throw this at you. Yeah. If apes and mammals weren't didn't have the opportunity to evolve into people... Mm-hmm. Why wouldn't the dinosaurs eventually? That's what saying. They evolved... Like, do you want them to be evolve city-building talking things? i thought you were trying to avoid that. Well, they wouldn't be they they wouldn't be like the dinosaur show.
00:13:01
Speaker
No. I think they would be people. I think they would just be like, i don't know, like Dragonborn or something. Oh, thinking humanoid? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:13:14
Speaker
Like, after that many millions of years, there's obviously evolutionary, like, precedent for... Bipedal. Bipedal opposable thumb situation. Okay.
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah, like, evolution it seems to favor that kind of thing. Like, even monkeys, our closest relatives, chimps and everything, like, they're very intelligent and they have opposable thumbs and...
00:13:41
Speaker
They solve problems and communicate with each other and have sex for fun. um So like, and that's a sign of intelligence people. you can just. Yes.
00:13:51
Speaker
Only the real intelligent people have sex for fun. But like even dolphins do it. Dolphins is. You heard it here from Janiel. All you idiots out there. You're doing it wrong.
00:14:05
Speaker
um Okay, but a case could be made that they would evolve into humanoids or even humans. But, but,
00:14:20
Speaker
is that what we want? Well, i was just going to ask is if it's like our world where the dinosaurs evolved into humanoids instead of apes, just like today where you still have monkeys, are there still dinosaur-like creatures running around?
00:14:34
Speaker
But they just aren't as intelligent as humans. Like, they are the apes of this world. Well, there's chickens. Yes. So you have, like, giant chickens? I mean... So, like, imagine, like, you go out into the jungle and you come across a bunch of chimps.
00:14:52
Speaker
They are our closest relatives. Like, evolutionary speaking. So, like, if for these dinosaur people to walk out in the jungle, would they find... dinosaurs of some kind?
00:15:04
Speaker
Your chickens? They just find a bunch of, like, chicken-like creatures? I mean... Or... Isn't that sort of like... Isn't that sort of like where birds came from? Yeah. So... So...
Societal Structures of Dinosaurs
00:15:18
Speaker
Right here...
00:15:20
Speaker
We've got two possibilities that are very likely. One, they all evolved into birds. Or two, they evolved into humans. But there's like bird-like creatures or dinosaur-like creatures still around. I don't think that's what Liz meant in the prompt.
00:15:34
Speaker
And I know we don't always adhere strictly to it. We veer. But i don't know. I just, it feels, i don't think it's as interesting.
00:15:48
Speaker
Let's read her prompt again. where Dinosaurs never died out and became the dominant species type. That's it. so That's all she wrote. i mean If you don't want to have humans, then they can't evolve into humans.
00:15:59
Speaker
Right. So, do they all just evolve into birds? Or do they evolve in different ways? So, I'm not saying they talk.
00:16:13
Speaker
Anatomically speaking, they couldn't. Not the way that... that They make like grunts or chirps or you know bird noises. Yeah. What if... What if they evolved... Because they had a really good diet, say. Mm-hmm.
00:16:35
Speaker
What if they evolved to where they could communicate telepathically? Where is this coming from? My brain. Yeah.
00:16:46
Speaker
I'm making it up, Janelle. That's what we do here. You said it's not realistic for dinosaurs to build fucking cities. Right. like like i tell i don't want to I don't want to do that. But dinosaurs who can communicate telepathically would be more interesting, I think.
00:17:02
Speaker
We just had a whole telepathy shit, even though we didn't really do anything with it. Well, yes, but like maybe it's not like maybe it's not like the way we think about it. Maybe it's more like communicating.
00:17:17
Speaker
Maybe it's like g Grimly. So Gremlin communicates with, like, emotions and shit. Right. Maybe it's... And, like, a choir. that's that yeah Basically, he sounds like a choir. Yeah. So maybe it's something like that. Maybe it's, like, not maybe not emotions per se, but God, you're getting into like, fucking Avatar shit, where they, like, connect to the animal they're riding.
00:17:37
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no. Because there's no one to ride them. But, like, maybe, like, images? I don't know. I just... After tens of millions of years, I just, it doesn't make sense for dinosaurs just to be the same. Like, I just, sorry, everybody.
00:17:55
Speaker
i know i That's why I suggested birds to begin. Yeah. but like Because that's what happened with dinosaurs. They turned the birds people. The the the canary, they're the ah the finches that are sitting outside, those used to be dinosaurs. They came from dinosaurs.
00:18:09
Speaker
Chickens, they came from dinosaurs.
Adapting to Climate Changes
00:18:11
Speaker
I'm sorry, everyone. I know I'm usually the the more fantastically open one. dig just i just can't believe it.
00:18:21
Speaker
Well, you were fantastically open about introducing telekinetic dinosaurs. Right. I'm okay with that. But you're obviously not, so... No, i'm just wondering where that came from. Like, where what was the ah evolutionary beginnings of telekinesis?
00:18:39
Speaker
There is, don't know there's evidence, but like there's like been theories about animals communicating. like You know that whole myth about we only use 10% of our brain? Yeah, it's bullshit. Yeah.
00:18:52
Speaker
But the idea is still kind of there. There's some power of our brains we haven't unlocked yet. Yeah. I mean, telepathically communicating animals is not a new thing.
00:19:04
Speaker
I was like curious, like, you have dinosaurs that literally have brains the size of walnuts to begin with. Right. But would they stay that small 10 million years later? Probably not. But depends on the species. Like, again, if you're starting your, like, if you have a huge brontosaurus versus a velociraptor or T-Rex, there's evidence pointing to the predators, like, especially velociraptors,
00:19:31
Speaker
you know raptors in general, like, those kind of those kind of dinosaurs, those two-legged, fast-running dinosaurs, those were the ones that showed the most intelligence. Like, there's evidence pointing to these predators hunted. So, let's let's let's back up a little bit. Mm-hmm.
00:19:46
Speaker
So, not all dinosaurs would survive. Yeah, obviously, yeah. Some of them do go extinct. So, do you think that the very big ones, the big and dumb ones...
00:19:59
Speaker
Would they still be around
Unique Adaptations and Species Evolution
00:20:02
Speaker
or would like the like raptors eventually take them out? I think a lot of those larger species, they flourish because the plant life was so different. on earth You had different trees back then. You had different forests. You had a lot of forests.
00:20:15
Speaker
um Well, no, I'm not. Yeah. the The brontosauruses and the brachiosauruses. Yeah. I'm talking about like T-rexes and allosaurus. Oh, you're talking about those. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think, why would they go extinct? Like, because, like, yeah so, okay, so I'm trying to think of creatures that are, um, they still exist, like crocodiles. Crocodiles i are ancient as shit.
00:20:38
Speaker
So... Crocodiles back in the day were enormous. So they ate a lot of like dinosaurs and large animals. But because of prey getting smaller because of earth changing, ah basically crocodiles have and crocodilians in general have evolved to be smaller um because they don't have as much to sustain them those enormous Yeah. sizes So ah generally, a lot of animals became small because their prey was not as plentiful or they got smaller too.
00:21:10
Speaker
With the exclusion of like whales. Like the blue whale is the largest animal that has ever lived on Earth. But they also eat some of the smallest animals animals in the ocean. Anyway, ah because their prey is plentiful.
00:21:22
Speaker
That's the only reason why... animals, the size of whales are still around. So I guess it depends on, like, their food source. Are there still large sources of food around? Are the sauropods, you know, those those giant long-necked dinosaurs, are they still around to be kind of like the prey source for large predatory dinosaurs? Because if they're not, if those went extinct, for sure large predatory dinosaurs would extinct.
00:21:50
Speaker
There's not as much to sustain them anymore unless they start cannibalizing each other, but that's not good either. So I'm thinking that the smart, let's just, let's just like velociraptors.
00:22:03
Speaker
They're already smart to begin with. who So they would only get smarter to the point, like if there was any, like this one, this is a hard one because like, because like back in the day, dinosaurs were the dominant species.
00:22:18
Speaker
Right, but... you take humans out and dinosaurs are just allowed to keep going... You know, I'm going to admit, this one is ah this one's hard for me because i don't I don't know where to go with it. So there's several directions we could go. We could go where the simplest route, where dinosaurs didn't change too much, and like it's ah essentially a primitive animal planet where you still have dinosaurs being dinosaurs and acting like dinosaurs. Even millions of years later, they might have evolved, but then you have like co-evolution where, or um what's the term...
00:22:47
Speaker
call. It's not co-evolution. um It's where basically animals evolved together basically countering each other. like This predator has increased its ability. like Basically its eyesight got better so it can see in the dark and it can see these print these prey pre ah creatures much easier.
00:23:02
Speaker
But then these prey creatures, they develop camouflage so they can hide better. But then the predators... They can, you know, see in the dark or ah they have a ways to see past this camouflage and became smart enough to know that these animals are just camouflaging. And then suddenly these animals that are camouflaging are, you know, starting live in trees away from the predators. But then the predators start developing wings and they start flying. So like you basically have evolution doing that kind of thing where animals are like competing together and try not like basically one-upping each other.
00:23:36
Speaker
So that's how ah how evolution, in our way, how evolution changes animals. Okay. I just had an idea. yeah Another one. Since the telepathic thing was, you did not seem...
00:23:47
Speaker
It's just out there. like Well, this is a world building podcast. I'm always going to the one because I know like if we do go route like that, if we do take a route like that, people are going wonder like where the telesco telekinesis come from. Dinosaurs. like We don't even have telekinesis like amongst humans.
00:24:02
Speaker
So where the superpowers help. Okay. But humans aren't as old as dinosaurs. No. True. But given another a couple million years, do you think we could get there? Potentially. Or especially. I mean, not me, but like the rest of you. Yeah, probably. Especially via technology where you do like yeah experimental like brain chips or whatever. So.
00:24:22
Speaker
But okay. i have this idea. What it? Mostly it's the same as it was. Okay. Okay. But there are certain dinosaurs that have evolved and have not to like, you know, invent things like technology and in and speak and whatever. I'm not saying that because they still need the dexterity to do stuff like that.
00:24:49
Speaker
But what if because like say velociraptors or raptors in general, there's different kinds of raptors, right? I think so, but like ah there's a term for them. Theropods.
00:25:00
Speaker
Theropoda. Okay, so what if what if they developed and just kept getting smarter and smarter to where they have culture but are still limited by what they have, which is little arms? Mm-hmm.
00:25:16
Speaker
fun they can build these structures or anything but they have they have a culture and so like the t-rexes are still out there but they're just dumb beasts right whereas the the velociraptors like they live in communities and they're i'm almost imagining like yeah so they live in like almost like like tribal communities like like yeah like gatherings and then like they have to be really careful working around because like there could be T-Rexes lurking around and those are like the lions or the tigers in like primitive human world you still had the saber-toothed tigers to compete with and there were very very terrifying predators that would take you out if they saw you and and maybe they i don't know maybe they cultivated herd animals like some like for livestock yeah yeah like um Dilophosaurus which that's the one with the weird beak on the head I think
00:26:12
Speaker
I Google it before you, like... Okay, whatever. Whatever it is. Yeah. um Also, dinosaur names have changed a little bit over the years. Oh, yeah. um
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, maybe they have cultivated, like, some sort of, like, um livestock animal, right? And they communicate the same way they always have with, like, chirps and clicks and... But, it like, they have a language,
00:26:41
Speaker
yeah What do you think about that? I do like that. I'm actually kind of picturing the noises like if you if any of you have ever heard the sounds of a cassowary. Cassowaries, like, if you want to imagine a modern-day dinosaur, cassowaries.
00:26:58
Speaker
They are... shoebills. Or shoebills. But cassowaries are like... They have the giant claws on their feet. They're flightless, so they walk around on big two legs.
00:27:09
Speaker
They are covered in feathers. They have a big cask on their head. The noises they make are terrifying. They sound like dinosaurs. Like, they could have easily used the sound effects of a cassowary in any dinosaur movie, and you would believe that that is a flesh-and-blood dinosaur making that noise.
00:27:27
Speaker
They're terrifying. They kind of sound like... some of the noises they make, they sound like... If you took a corrugated plastic pike and ran a stick along it... That's kind of what a cassowary... One the noises a cassowary makes.
00:27:40
Speaker
But they also make a drumming noise that's so deep you can barely hear it. Like, it's barely audible to humans. um So it's like a thumping, like... Like, loud... It's a thumping, loud, deep noise that humans can barely hear.
00:27:54
Speaker
Um... So, yeah, they make a lot of weird noises. And I'm sure many millions years ago, their ancestors made very similar noises.
00:28:05
Speaker
Okay. We've got something now. Yeah. weve got a We got a race of, we have basically tribal dinosaurs that are kind of, they might not be Velociraptors anymore because they have evolved, but they're like Velociraptor-like dinosaurs.
00:28:20
Speaker
I mean, they're still feathered. They're still feathered, two-legged, fast, like, small dinosaurs. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I dig that. I like that a lot. Okay.
00:28:31
Speaker
And are they flighted or are they flightless? They're just, like, ground running. I can't imagine them being flighted. Yeah. Okay. I'm good with that. Because why would they need to fly? They're very successful ground predators.
00:28:44
Speaker
um Yeah, I like that. So, yeah, they probably gain the intelligence of... ah Since they are predatory, they need meat. So they probably, when they when they got intelligent enough, they started rounding up prey.
00:29:00
Speaker
corralling them, and that is their livestock. So in times of hardship, they can eat one of these animals and share it amongst themselves. um And they likely have to keep an eye out for larger, like, feral predators like the T-Rex descendants, which are out there like your lions or your tigers or bears, oh my! um That's They have to be wary of them so they don't get killed, but also their livestock doesn't get eaten by, like, a pack of, like, their wolves, essentially.
00:29:29
Speaker
And what if their habitations are, like, like they live in the side of, like, T-Rex skulls? Is that their only home? No, but, like, some of them do. Like... They use the bones of other larger species to craft homes with, or They can't really do a lot craft. Yeah. and they can, like, carry things. like Like, beavers don't have possible thumb, so they build dams.
00:29:52
Speaker
With their mouths. With their mouths and their feet and their tails. Yeah. yeah Yeah. So, like, yeah, they can... Crude buildings. like Yeah. ive Crude structures. Yeah. like I'm kind of thinking on the face of a cliff, maybe they can like pile up sticks like how a beaver would, just like laying on the side of the cliff face, and they just hide out in those simple shelters.
00:30:15
Speaker
I'm kind of picturing something like that. Yeah. Or like a mountain, like a hillside. They can kind of do that. I do like the idea of using the bones of bigger animals. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of big things yeah walking around. Because, like, if you're a velociraptor, you're chicken-sized.
00:30:30
Speaker
T-Rexes are fucking huge. Like, their heads are, like... The size table we're sitting at, easily. Yeah, so you can fit quite a few chickens. You can fit family of four in them. but Yeah.
00:30:44
Speaker
Or, like, if you dug it out underneath, too. Like, I don't know. Well, chickens dig. So, I imagine, like, the raptors, they can dig pits. Like, shallow holes to, like, put stuff on top of.
00:30:55
Speaker
Maybe that's their home, is they dig these pits. And they put stuff on top of them, and that's, like, that is their shelf. Okay.
00:31:04
Speaker
And maybe that's how they protect themselves from the bigger predators. They kind of lie underground a little bit. They can't really dig tunnels because they don't have anything to dig forward. But like they just kind dig and kick out with their feet.
00:31:19
Speaker
But being, like, as smart as they are, i imagine they're they're tool users, like how Corvids use sticks to get things out of other things, get things out of holes. So they might, like, have simple bone or stick tools that they use to, like, pry things or, like...
00:31:38
Speaker
um cut things, like maybe they cut meat to, like, and they have their mouths and stuff, too, like, to just, like, chomp into meat, but like, they're sharing amongst themselves to feed their babies or something, they can bring, like, I guess they have their mouths for that, but, like, trying to think of other things. Yeah, but it's got razor sharp teeth. Yeah, I guess I can try to think of, like, things they use, like, tools for, because, like,
00:31:59
Speaker
That's one thing, that that's one side of intelligence of, like, any species is tool usage. um Right. So, like, I'm trying to think what they use a tool for. I guess, like, to maybe assist them in digging or, or less like, scraping.
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah, or, like, maybe using vines to tie things together. Yeah. I do have weaver birds or, like a like, tailor birds, they call them sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, they they actually weave nesting materials together.
00:32:27
Speaker
That's really cool. So yeah, I imagine like they they found some kind of thing to use as string to kind tie things together.
00:32:38
Speaker
Maybe they they gather mouthfuls of mud to use like it's like to kind of cement things together a little bit. And like maybe when when their culture is starting to develop, like they use it to make art and like adornments and stuff.
00:32:59
Speaker
I like that. Yeah, maybe like, I'm not sure what they're, we have to still discuss like what kind of prey animals they're using. yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, thinking of like any, like, any ancient culture, human culture, um they've used different parts of animals.
00:33:15
Speaker
Like, they used hides as clothes, they used feathers as jewelry, they used hooves and bone as tools and weapons. Yeah. That kind of thing.
00:33:25
Speaker
I mean, um they don't need weapons, though, because... No. They have they have teeth. and But what if, what if... What if? To defend themselves against the big, scary T-Rex descendants, they have developed something that's stronger than their teeth or claws.
00:33:44
Speaker
Like, what if they, like, made spears? Like, holding their jaws and they used that to stab a T-Rex in the heart or something to kill it. Or defend themselves. Because a bunch of little velociraptors, like, they might pierce the height of a big, fierce predator, but a knife is gonna do it. Maybe they're not as little as they used to be.
00:34:06
Speaker
Maybe. Maybe they grew in size a little bit. Maybe because the smarter they got, the more access to food they got. just got bigger. Yeah, and if they, like, herding animals, they're going to be always have food. Yeah, unless that herding animal is the size of a small dog, and they're going to be trampled to death. They're the size of chickens.
00:34:24
Speaker
So... Yeah, but herding animals are usually meek, so... Yeah. Like, what if they are with what what the artist size of cassowaries? Cassowaries are not... So they're not ostrich size, but they're not chickens either. They're, like, a little bit above this table.
00:34:41
Speaker
They're pretty big. i our Our audience can't see that, but I'm giving you a reference. Okay. Everyone should know like what a cast away how big a cassowary is. they're like And everyone should know how big our table is.
00:34:55
Speaker
So, like, they're between...
00:35:00
Speaker
I can't think of ever, like... Three feet? Huh? Three feet? Three feet big. Yeah, like tall. Like but like like dwarf size? Let me just... Huh? Like dwarf halfling size? Yeah, like a lot of people, like, not everyone's gonna know how big a dwarf is.
00:35:13
Speaker
Uh, thank you. Um... let's Listeners to a world-building podcast are not gonna know how big a dwarf is. The cast story... No one's seen Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. You freaking nerds. Like, who do you think's listening to this right now, Janelle? Let's see description. ah um Adult Southern cassowaries, 1.5 to 1.8 meters or 4 feet to 5 feet tall. oh feet Damn. They're bigger than thought they were.
00:35:45
Speaker
they're like... Almost as big as you. Damn. Yeah. That's actually taller than me, 5 foot 11. 5'11"? Yeah, they'd be four between four foot eleven and 5'11 tall.
00:35:56
Speaker
That's taller than me. That's bullshit.
00:36:02
Speaker
Okay, well... I guess they're bigger than I thought they were. Yeah, so like emus. That's fucking terrifying. Yeah. Okay, so they're bigger. Yeah.
00:36:13
Speaker
They're bigger danger chickens. again murder chickens murder murdered chickens yep um okay so well okay here's a thought what if okay so you're suggesting they make spears or knives or something control users don't hold in their mouth but what if they affix them to their feet like something like maybe they found a larger daggers but the they already have like big claws or feet Yeah, that are made out of claw material, not like... So i was almost thinking, like, say if they were to go up against a T-Rex-like creature, some feral predator that is like their saber-toothed cat.
00:36:56
Speaker
um So that's threatening their little encampment, their little village or whatever, what way have you. um So you have them with their claws, and traditionally what a raptor would do is they would use those claws to pin themselves in the side predators and bite them in the neck.
00:37:13
Speaker
So, instead of biting this big, fierce predator neck, they just jam a spear into them while pinning themselves on their side like that. why But why wouldn't they use their numbers to overrun it?
00:37:26
Speaker
you know what mean? Well, maybe it's like a like That's what I'm saying. like if if They're not the only ones to evolve. So, like... So the the big, fierce predators, they are also big and fierce, and maybe they develop, like, thicker hides or something, or spines, to kind of, like, deter... Okay....smaller predators from getting at them. That makes sense. Yeah. So, like, these little raptor people, these raptor race, was just like, hey, need to figure out a way to around this, and then via their intelligence and tool usage...
00:37:57
Speaker
They just like found to they found a way to like fasten a bone or a tooth, a large predator tooth or a bone, to the end of a stick. And they just jammed that right in the neck of their they' are predators.
00:38:11
Speaker
I'm not going to say no. i I'm just throwing it out there as possibility. Because like you're talking about intelligence, and one of the things that intelligent animals do, a lot of them do, is they use tools. um And that's the only way I can think of a tool being useful for a small predatory animal.
00:38:30
Speaker
What if they did... What if they did what the Ewoks did? Like... What? You know, back giant logs.
00:38:44
Speaker
Oh, it's set traps? Yeah, and like, have them come and smash a T-Rex. Smash the bit of a T-Rex? Yeah, like they did with the ATS-Ts. Yeah.
00:38:58
Speaker
Okay, so like... So they're tool using and also trap building because little Ewoks had little spears and shit too. Yeah, they did. They probably used those for hunting and they had bows and arrows. Yeah. Like like digging pits that they could cover. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:39:15
Speaker
soil yeah A big animal, not going to see it, going to fall in a pit, it's going to break its, like, it's going to fall down. And once it's down, like... Wait, like, so its if they're digging a sheer pit, how are they doing that? Because I was thinking, like, when they build their houses, they're built they're basically digging a shallow pit and then putting stuff on top.
00:39:35
Speaker
But they're digging a pitfall trap. How they do that? They just keep digging. do they get out? They climb out.
00:39:47
Speaker
guess they climb. Yeah.
00:39:51
Speaker
Oh, I can think of use tools now. Like, one one method they use tools is when they do build fall traps that they fall down. they Have you ever seen a parrot climb or, like, any bird climb?
00:40:02
Speaker
It's really cool to watch them. So, like, I've grown up with keeping birds. So, before we let them out to have their out time, they would climb their cage.
00:40:12
Speaker
And they would take both their feet, grab on their beak, yeah and then just kind of like inchworm their way yeah across the cage. So doing that a cliff face, I can imagine like, or like a sheer drop. um They use their feet, yes, but they also carry in their mouth like a small like pointed stick or a dagger to like jam into the dirt. And they would just kind of like use that to scale things.
00:40:37
Speaker
the wall of whatever they're climbing. Because, like, raptors and, like, even, like, ancient birds, um they have little claws in their wings. So they use that to, like, scale up trees and stuff. but if you're talking something the size of a cassowary...
00:40:53
Speaker
You... They have to be pretty strong to do... But they're pretty strong yeah agile, though. Agile doesn't do shit for climbing. Since when? have to like, upper body strength.
00:41:04
Speaker
You can be agile all you want, but have to have the upper body strength to poist your hoist your whole body up. Well, they got... So, what if they, like, do, like, wall jumps?
00:41:15
Speaker
Like parkour? Yeah. guess they build a shallow enough, like, like a, um, not super wide pitfall. They kind of do that. Yeah. If it's too, yeah, if it's too, okay. Well, ladders might be a little too much for them to be able to. No, that's what saying. For them to scale the wall, they like basically stab it with something in their mouth and then scale it like a parrot would.
00:41:37
Speaker
They don't use... Like, you'll see parrots using their wings to climb anything they don't have anything hook onto these guys, they have tiny little front arms, but, like, they don't they're not used for much.
00:41:48
Speaker
So, like, maybe they use it to kind like, they use their their neck muscles and their ability to use tools to kind of, like, climb their way up a sheer face like that. Okay.
00:41:58
Speaker
I'm trying to think of how they'd be able to make, like, sort of armor... Yeah. Protect themselves. Yeah. I mean, like... Or, like, get, like amount like, a giant, like, tooth, like, on their head so they can just, like, ram into something.
00:42:13
Speaker
I don't know. I'm trying to think. I think they would be into, like, ramming can't imagine, like, Velociraptor-like creature the size of a cassowary being very bulky. They're not tank. So, like, yeah they would go in, they would go in, like, stab something and leave kind of predator.
00:42:31
Speaker
um They're not one to just like ram into something and keep attacking it. Okay. I can't imagine them doing... like they They're not physically built for that kind of fight. Yeah.
00:42:42
Speaker
I'm going to throw this out there. Okay. If they're having livestock animals, what about working animals? What if they... Like like they trained animals? like Yeah, they trained triceratops and ankylosauruses.
00:43:02
Speaker
Okay, so like, I'm trying to think of how like dogs were first domesticated, it was obviously like humans offering them food. And then like, they started to train these animals, like, you gaining their trust and affection.
00:43:13
Speaker
How does a velociraptor-like creature, instead of just eating and killing a triceratops, gain its trust enough and then train it enough to be its ally? What does a triceratops get out of this?
00:43:25
Speaker
Because a dog, you can feed ah a piece of meat. like that's like That's how dogs were domesticated. It's like, oh, here, puppy, I'll give you some food that I just killed this deer. So out here, I'll give this wild puppy some meat, and it now it's friendly with me.
00:43:41
Speaker
What if they stole eggs? Stratocytops eat eggs? No. Oh, stole eggs and raised them. Yes. Oh, okay.
00:43:51
Speaker
Interesting. So they raised them from babies. That's interesting because, like, you do have a lot of dinosaurs that were, like, egg thieves. That's what they ate. They ate eggs. They would steal eggs from nests and eat them.
00:44:03
Speaker
So I'm sure these Velociraptor creatures have done that. Like, they'll eat eggs of other dinosaurs. Sure. one... so one Like one tribe of them or whatever had the idea of like, hey, instead of eating these, we're going to raise them and train them to do stuff.
00:44:24
Speaker
Interesting. I'm kind of wondering how they got that idea. It's again, like how we domesticated dogs is here, puppy. Here's some meat. Now we're friends. But if we're raising this animal... All it would take is for one to come across a baby one and the baby one, like... Thought it was his mom or something. Well, wasn't, ah you know, they didn't know to be afraid. Yeah. Because it was like a lone velociraptor. Like, that's not that scary. Yeah.
00:44:50
Speaker
this velociraptor, instead of just eating it, like, being an opportunistic predator, said, hey, I'm not going to eat you. Instead, I'm going to bring you back home with me. And you're going to be my dog.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, and then everyone's like, oh, okay, this is, we've seen what these guys can do. What, maybe we can get them to do stuff for us. Interesting. I can see it.
00:45:14
Speaker
So are, like, the Triceratops still as big as they are? or they shrink? Or, because, like, the size difference, even between, like, if you if you see how big Triceratops used to be, even compared to a cassowary, they're huge.
00:45:29
Speaker
Okay. What if? What if they use the Triceratops' tanks? And they're like all... Ride them in the battle? Yes. They're riding them behind their their big... The cask? Yeah. Is that what it's called?
00:45:42
Speaker
I think so. Yeah. um And so they can like duck down so that they can't be seen. And the Triceratops is like just chilling. And then it can like run at a... you know With the horns, that's going to do damage.
00:45:57
Speaker
But then, oh what's this? Five velociraptors jump from behind it and, like, crawl on the thing and just take it down. Cool. I kind of dig that. I'm trying to think of, like, how they train and what like what what the benefit this triceratops gets out of about it. like Like, they're they're plant eaters, right?
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah. So, like, they would have to have access to a very lush forest or, like, a lot of food for this triceratops. Because they're smart, they can get food that triceratopses can't reach, like certain fruits. Fruits and veggies. Okay.
00:46:36
Speaker
Okay. So they work as like a, um, uh, what's the word i'm looking for? What's term I'm looking for where like animals benefit from each other and they like symbioosis symbiosis, symbiotic relationship. Yeah.
00:46:53
Speaker
Okay. So, like, maybe the world as it is now with these dinosaurs, this domestication of these big horned, you know, like, triceratops has been a thing for a while.
00:47:06
Speaker
So, like, not all of them are domesticated. this so those three yeah They're still feral, like, how we have wolves. There's still feral dogs out There's still feral triceratops or horned dinosaurs, we we're calling them.
00:47:17
Speaker
But there is a significant population of them that has been domesticated by these guys. Now, think of what they could do with an Ankylosaurus. That giant, like, mace at the end of the tail. Yeah.
00:47:31
Speaker
Like, the crushing power of that thing. Clearing trees. Like, hammering things. I don't know. Yeah. So, like, are they, like, domesticating all the giant herbivores or, like...
00:47:46
Speaker
Or just some. Like, what's their prey? was What's that was their was's their livestock? Um, you know, other ones. Something between the size of a... Um, hold on. I gotta look this up. This... I think it's like a Dilophosaurus, but let me let me look. Let me look.
00:48:04
Speaker
We are going to delight a lot of dinosaur nerds or make them very angry. Well, listen, I like my dinosaurs, man. i just don't know the names a lot of them. I'm more into dragons and shit. But like I have nothing against dinosaur people. i so I say dinosaur nerds as the most loving thing ever because I absolutely love you people if that's your thing.
00:48:25
Speaker
I've known i've no plenty of people that are into dinosaurs that would probably be either angry, upset about this, or like absolutely delighted that, like, yeah, the raptors are the dominant species. Hell yeah. And then you have, like, the people who are fans of Triceratops, like, why are they the great beasts of burden?
00:48:42
Speaker
ah guarantee there's some people listening that are going to be like that. made it I'm sorry. this is the way This the path our brains have taken. And we just can't back down from this. we've We've gone too far. We've gone far enough down this path that this is the path we're taking.
00:48:57
Speaker
What'd you find, Jerika? Parasaurolophus walkerai. What the fuck is that? Yeah, they they they got the, like, long, like, it's not a horn, but it's like a bone protrusion in the back. So, the livestock animals are ducky from Land Before Time, if you guys don't know what we're talking about. there's a deep cut. Yeah.
00:49:22
Speaker
But yes, damn, I didn't think anybody knew that movie existed. think a lot of people should know Land Before a Time. But like, instead of saying the scientific name of some dinosaurs, say oh, that's Ducky.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a Parasaurolophidus. Parasaurolophidus. o lot I'm not sure it's the exact species that ducky is, but it looks a lot like ducky. Yeah, that's what that's what I'm... But there's other ones, too, like... um Oh, then that's that's a raptor. Never mind.
00:49:54
Speaker
The sharp tooth. Yeah. There's other ones like this Lambiosaurus looks kind of the same or like duckbilled dinosaurs. Yes. Yeah. Duckbilled dinosaurs. Yes. Those ones. I don't think like Ducky in the movie had an exact species, but like everyone's duckbilled dinosaur. but like there's several, there's a handful of species that are duckbilled dinosaurs. Yes. that they Those are the ones. Yeah.
00:50:19
Speaker
Okay. Um, Maybe the the packies too maybe the Pachycephalosaurus, the head-butting ones. Oh, those guys.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we domesticated rams that can kick their ass if they really wanted to. Yeah, and so... They always want to, so... But, like, okay, so there's more than just dinosaurs, though.
00:50:44
Speaker
Right. So there's like... way to like, like maybe some do some independent research in between this and the ah the actual play of what species lived alongside. but like know we can just make it up because we're building in a whole new world, yeah feels. Yes, yes. Let's say that there's like... I'm just trying to introduce some like, like again, we're we're taking a like, the actual world...
00:51:06
Speaker
that just dinosaurs didn't go extinct. So i was thinking of, like, actual species to, like, do a comparison. of But, like, they have evolved. It's been millions of years. yeah, like, if... fe but Like, who knows what would be here? Yeah. So... So, like, hmm. I was thinking, like, are there... There has to be mammals of some kind, right? Because, and like, mammals did evolve at some point. Yeah.
00:51:25
Speaker
So... Maybe there are, like... Some small, ancient-looking mammalian. Oh! So, whales?
00:51:37
Speaker
Whales used to be land animals. Look up the ancient, like, what whales used to look like. Ancient ass ancestors of whales. Maybe you can you couldn't find that. But they used to be kind of like a dog-looking thing.
00:51:49
Speaker
that's weird-looking. Yeah, it's like a dog thing. So they used to be on land, and they evolved to be in the water. But not so much where they could breathe in the water. No.
00:52:01
Speaker
They're not fully aquatic. Like, 100% like fish. that oh That's a whole... That's ah that's a horror thing. that And that bothers me. But, okay. So, like, you have your ancient whales, essentially. Like, these kind of creatures that, like, maybe they were destined at one point to turn into whales eventually, if evolution favored them. But it did not. the dinosa It favored the dinosaurs. So now they're like these...
00:52:24
Speaker
land animals that are kind of like mammalian ancestors. Yeah, I mean, or and there's there's like even just tiny dinosaurs too. Yeah. Lizards.
00:52:35
Speaker
but is you you Like bite-sized meals for these guys. Yeah, I mean, like there were insects, so someone has to eat the insects. Well, i mean, I would think that even these guys dine on insects, too. They are predatory, but, like, they eat, like, other protein, like, very diet. Yeah. Like, you have lizards out there that eat insects, mice, small animals. you know, they eat pretty much anything they can get a hold of.
00:52:59
Speaker
um So I imagine these creatures, ah this this race of intelligent creatures, um they are very similar. They just kind eat anything. Not so much plants because they're just werent designed eat plants. Right. But like fish, insects, meat, like they pretty much eat everything except for plants. Right.
00:53:19
Speaker
And maybe even, you know, some, like, larger tribes could get together and maybe once a year as a, like, rite of passage, like, go and try and take down a brachiosaur or something. Yeah, like, you're not a mature adult male until you do this.
00:53:39
Speaker
Well, hold on. It doesn't have to be male. I'm just saying, like, this is an example a mature adult. Yes, thank you. Thank you. We're all about gender equality. Yes.
00:53:51
Speaker
Okay. So now that we have sort of established how these these these raptors sort of live, what is their culture like?
00:54:04
Speaker
I imagine it's like, it's obviously very primitive, right? Like for like, imagine even when we start the actual play, it's very primitive. um But like, so it's all, think about like ancient human cultures, especially like your cavemen.
00:54:19
Speaker
ah When you look at like wall paintings, it was mainly about hunting. They drew horses, they drew bison, they drew whatever they were hunting out the wild on the cave walls because that was their center of their culture was this hunting thing. Sure. mean, the livestock too, but I'm sure is lot of culture centered around taking down the enormous feral beasts. that are lurking around their camp that is a constant threat to them.
00:54:47
Speaker
But like, as you said, a rite of passage is to go out and slay one, like slaying a dragon. Like they're, they are like big, it's a big deal. So also like, or maybe, maybe it's like an event that many tribes come together and then they split the meat. Cause that's a lot of animal. That's a lot of food. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, like, I imagine, like, they do have art, like, cave paintings, essentially, of taking down these enormous savage beasts and sharing the meat amongst themselves and nearby tribes.
00:55:19
Speaker
um I imagine the tribes, they each have their own, like, maybe, like, families, like, family names. Yeah. And then sometimes they send out um mature males and females out to start their own colony somewhere, start their own tribe somewhere.
00:55:35
Speaker
um They want to break off. But I imagine, like, they are social in a way. So that they do do once a year, once whenever they have this festival where they want to go out and slay one of these giant beasts. Well, come on. Not a festival. Yeah.
00:55:54
Speaker
a festival, like like ah like i ah write a rite passage kind of thing. Yeah. um Well, I imagine there's some, like, there's some schedule to it. Like, they can't just go out and hunt it whenever they want. It's a big deal.
00:56:07
Speaker
So I imagine there is, like, a ceremony involved. i where Yeah, and i think I think that they would be able to start understanding time...
00:56:21
Speaker
By watching the moon. Well, I mean, animals understand time. to like You have migratory birds that migrate. Right. So, like, you know, so they know, like, so many moons. Now it's it's time.
00:56:32
Speaker
or it's changing the seasons. Like, oh, it's cold. It's the cold season. So we have to do, like, preparations to survive the cold months. Yeah. um That kind of thing. So... they do know when, like, spring, summer, fall are, like, they have seasons. So I'm i'm picturing...
00:56:49
Speaker
why Why do I always come back to gatherings whichh of tribes? what is What is up with me? You want unity. you are a guess. Yeah. i imagine them being like like tribal. I imagine there are conflicts between neighboring tribes and all of them are friendly. Oh, yeah. For sure. Absolutely. Like sure they take over Char's territory and shit like that.
00:57:09
Speaker
Maybe they don't take down a full size brick. Maybe like a small, a baby one or something. Are you talking about like sauropods the big long neck dinosaurs? Are you talking about like the big predatory dinosaurs? No, no, no.
00:57:21
Speaker
Brachiosaur, bonosaur. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you are talking about taking on number one of those guys. Okay. Well, maybe evolution like shrunk them down a little bit. Like they're just never longer enormous. um As enormous.
00:57:35
Speaker
And they could be. I don't see why they would get smaller if food is plentiful. Yeah, because they're just eating leaves and plants off the trees and stuff. Yeah, like giraffes are big. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess they would be relatively the same size. Yes. So, okay.
00:57:51
Speaker
But i'm i'm i'm I kind of want their culture to be a little bit more developed. Not like... Where they're, you know... Making cell phones and... Or, like, you know, writing plays and stuff like that, maybe. But, like...
00:58:07
Speaker
Not... There's, there's like... there's like um Everyone has their their their role in the tribe. And not everyone's a hunter. Yeah. Right? You have builders. You have... Yeah. um
00:58:24
Speaker
Craftsmen. Livestock caretakers. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So only the only the people who only those that would want a people I guess they're people ah that like want to be part you know want to be a warrior would would partake um which then allows for like you know.
00:58:49
Speaker
I'm a warrior. My mate is a warrior. My, my, my clutch will be warriors too. like I don't want to be a warrior, Dan. Like yeah that kind of situation. Cause I feel like there, there is a little bit of drama.
00:59:03
Speaker
Yeah. And I mentioned like, maybe like after a few years, like, like how these, like, when do these creatures reach maturity? Cause like with humans, like you don't reach maturity until you're like, your brain doesn't stop developing until you're in your early twenties. Right. So like your late teens and your early twenty s that's when you kind of reach maturity as far as a human goes. But like, what's the lifespan of these creatures? Like when did they reach maturity? Five years old?
00:59:27
Speaker
Like that that they did they live for like 10, 15 years? or i think I think they would be living longer because the the more intelligent you are, the longer you live typically. You learn how to survive. Yeah.
00:59:41
Speaker
So like I imagine like maybe like these creatures, they live... 40 50 years like not quite as long as people but like parrot lifespan like like some parents live like 50 60 years some can live a little like like older but okay so let's see if the average human lifespan is like what 80 let's say just 80 and you mature at 20 so that's that's a quarter of your life right so what's a quarter of 50 and it's about, well, I have 50s, 25, I have a 25. It's 12 and a half. 12 and a half. Yeah.
01:00:17
Speaker
So, like, maybe 10 to 13 is what you're sure. Yeah. So, like... So, little bit faster than ne humans. Yeah. So, maybe around, like, eight, nine years of age, like, kind of, like, on the cusp of adult or maturity, um they have to choose a path in life, and that's what they stick with.
01:00:39
Speaker
So, like, they can choose to be a builder, a livestock caretaker, or a hunter, warrior, what have you. But in order to go down that path, they have to be set on a trial to make sure that they're ba they're built for it. Yeah. So, like, a test.
01:00:57
Speaker
And obviously, the toughest test out there is that of a hunter or a warrior. Yeah. um So, like, that would involve slaying, you know, the beast, the the big beast um But like for livestock caretaking, like maybe you're just like running the farm or whatever for like a certain period of time and you to do things like backbreaking work for a while.
01:01:19
Speaker
um So they each have their own tests to make sure they're built to do that shit, um that they really want to do it for the rest of their life. um So maybe it's that kind of thing where, like, again, like you said, dick you're raised by warriors. They're both warriors. Your mom and dad's a warrior. Your brothers and sisters want warriors. Where it's like, well, i kind of want farming. Like, I kind of like a kind of like caretaking, like, animals.
01:01:40
Speaker
um So, like, your parents might be a little disappointed in you for not doing what they want to do, but, like, That's your thing. That's what you want to do. And like if you do well that test, that trial, you can be a farmer for the rest of your life or a livestock caretaker for rest of your life.
01:01:58
Speaker
Okay. So like the the everyone has got a trial. I was thinking that maybe when you you know when they choose a mate, ok are we going to have them be monogamous or or or not? i kind of like the idea of like them being monogamous because a lot of There's a lot of intelligent animals that are.
01:02:19
Speaker
um They have, like, monogamous relationships. Like... I think... Corvids? Are they? but I think they are. was looking at that. But i I want to say that they are. Okay. But... ah I just don't want to, like...
01:02:35
Speaker
i you know Had the dominant male or female or whatever. or no I just don't want to be like, oh, yeah, monogamy is just the norm. like Because not everyone is monogamous, right? Yeah.
01:02:46
Speaker
There are poly people up Right, right, right. And yeah that's perfectly fine, too. Yes. um Okay, so whenever they choose a mate, and after the the the ceremony, the the whatever mating process,
01:03:02
Speaker
Not mating, but, you know, mating ceremony. Yeah. Then they, you know, they have to choose, okay, you have to, you can't live in your parents' house. Yeah. There's that room.
01:03:16
Speaker
You have to build your own house or... Or move on, start your own... Yeah, or go off. Yeah. Or or go off. And start something new or something. Mm-hmm. So...
01:03:30
Speaker
Because the like the tribe can only support so many people, right? i mean, it it it would grow, right? It would grow. sure there's different sizes of colonies or tribes where some of them are a few families. Some of them are just a bunch of families that have maybe fused together or have grown and just expanded.
01:03:52
Speaker
um There's gay dinosaurs. I'm just saying that now. There's gay dinosaurs. Listen, like I said, in every intelligent species... there's There's just gay dinosaurs and nobody has a problem with it.
01:04:06
Speaker
Yep. So in a way, they're more intelligent than us. You got it. Yeah. I was going to mention something about like like like fucking chimps and bonobos. They like fuck everything for fun. Because like that's like in nature you have lions fucking each other like male lions. Anyway, I'm not going to cut that out. But like nature's queer. So. ah Yep. Nature's queer. You heard it here, folks. Okay.
01:04:31
Speaker
leave that in. Okay, so yeah, so we have we have the trials, we have the mating. What happens when you get older? I mean, so i'm i'm like what pops into my head is what like happens to older predators. Like,
01:04:49
Speaker
they start losing teeth, they can't really hunt, so it's, like, kind of miserable death. But, like, since these these this group of, like, creatures is intelligent, they probably, like, hunt for their elders. Like, that they can't run anymore, they can't run as fast, they can't eat tough foods anymore. They probably just, like, they take care of their elderly, and when they die, they bury them? Do they burn them? did they leave them for... Well, well we burn, like,
01:05:19
Speaker
Do they have fire? Like, we didn't talk about that. Talk about fire. Yeah. um I think fire is a big game changer. I was kind of thinking they probably didn't have fire. Oh, interesting. Okay. But I'm not, like, I'm open. It was at one point in human history. Man make fire. You cavemen discovered fire. But, like... Yeah, and you have Prometheus giving people fire in Greek mythology. Like, it's a big deal. Yeah. Fire is a huge deal.
01:05:51
Speaker
Because I imagine like if they did have access to fire, they could like go into colder climates and survive because they have fire. um And they that's how they survive so like better survive winter, to have fire.
01:06:04
Speaker
But I can't imagine... how would they figure that out, though? I mean, probably the same way he humanity did. They saw lightning struck a they're like, ooh, that thing's on fire now.
01:06:14
Speaker
How do we make that fire? And being intelligent beings, humans started figuring out, like, they but they probably just had, like, fire from lightning and they said, like, okay, we don't let this fire die out But then they're like, oh, the fire died out. It's, like, how do we make this fire again?
01:06:31
Speaker
And they figured it out somehow. We have fire every day now, but we have fire everywhere. So are little velociraptor friends going to have fire?
01:06:45
Speaker
I don't know. I imagine... Okay. So you know what a firehawk is? Isn't it a ride that's no longer available? It's that. But also in Australia, they have fire hawks. ah They have hawks that will use lit branches from wildfires and they will purposely scatter wildfire to chase out prey.
01:07:07
Speaker
I'm not bold of shooting you. That is something they have in Australia. Wow. um So they have fire hawks. um I believe they're called fire hawks. So like birds figured out how to use fire as a tool.
01:07:19
Speaker
Because when they see something on fire, they notice prey running away from it, so they'll actually use it to flush out prey. They start wildfires that way, which is a pain in the ass to deal with, I'm sure.
01:07:30
Speaker
Like brush fires and stuff. But that's what they use to lure out prey, is they chase it out with fire. Which is crazy. They'll actually take lit sticks or smoldering sticks up in the air with them and drop them into brush to light it on fire.
01:07:46
Speaker
Okay. It's crazy. So like it's not too far fetched that like... All right. wait Maybe during a thunderstorm, lightning hit a tree and set it on fire and the raptors were like, ooh, ooh, ooh, what's that? And they kind of discovered how to use this thing.
01:08:00
Speaker
And then when it died out, they're like... How do we make fire? How do we make fire? We have to light this thing again. So they probably tried all different things, like, as tool users to try to light it on fire, which they probably struck rocks or, you know, ah struck things against the sides of cliffs.
01:08:18
Speaker
They probably discovered flint that can do that. Like, they can if they strike these two shiny rocks together, they can create sparks. Um... So, like, it's not too far-fetched that they ok know how to use fire because they have seen what it does, and they probably eventually figured out how to make fire.
01:08:39
Speaker
If you have dry sticks and flint or something to strike it against, they don't have metal, obviously, but flint was how fire started back in the day. Guaranteed. Okay.
01:08:50
Speaker
How about this, though? How about not all the tribes have fire? Only some of them do. Okay. So maybe not all them may have access to, like, dry kindling and flint. Right. Because if you if you live in, like, a tropical jungle, you're not finding dry anything.
01:09:09
Speaker
True. Right? Like... Yeah. There's nothing dry in a rainforest. So... It depends where they live. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:20
Speaker
And yeah, maybe like ones that live sort of in prairie situations or in like somewhat colder climates.
01:09:32
Speaker
That's another thing. So the climate back then was warm all the time. Yeah. Warm and humid. Is it still like that? Like the Earth changes because you have plate tectonics still.
01:09:44
Speaker
So plate tectonics has shaped a lot of the ecosystems because the Earth is being heated by the sun and everything in the in the in the ah the atmosphere and everything. But if you have land shifting slowly towards either of the poles or towards the center, like did the equator, things are to get hotter or colder.
01:10:05
Speaker
So that alone changes how life is on these shifting plates. If you have things kind of gravitating gravitating towards more like the ah equator, things have to adapt to live in warmer environments.
01:10:20
Speaker
And same thing with things being shifted towards the poles. They have to learn how survive in colder environments. So...
01:10:31
Speaker
I mentioned that because of the fluctuations of tree life, like plant life, because like plants influence a lot of Earth's atmosphere because you don't have as much CO2 or um you know ah plants absorbing oxygen, you have a lot more CO2 and then you basically have the greenhouse effect.
01:10:49
Speaker
um So that can warm up things up a lot. So over the course of millions years, I suspect there were, like, again, you have volcanoes erupting too.
01:11:02
Speaker
That can yeah fuck shit up too. um So through the course of, like, millions of years, volcanoes erupting, plate tectonics, the Earth going through changes, you do have, like, shifting of climates. So maybe you have some of these tribes, like, being, like, nomadic or migratory, where...
01:11:23
Speaker
Like, hey, shit's kind of fucked up here because that volcano many miles away erupted and is covering us in ash or blocking out the sun. It's colder now.
Transition to Birds and Warm-Blooded Evolution
01:11:32
Speaker
We have to migrate to a warmer climate.
01:11:34
Speaker
um So, that makes sense. Here's a question. Dinosaurs became birds. They went from cold-blooded to warm-blooded.
01:11:46
Speaker
Eventually. so Well, eventually. We're talking millions of years. yeah Eventually. So... Is it possible that, I'm not saying at all, but there are some that ended up, you know, becoming surviving yeah surviving in the cold weather, like, eventually became warm-blooded?
01:12:07
Speaker
Interesting. Because you do have birds that are built to live in the snow. Yeah. Like, in cold environments. You have birds that are, like, all they do is live... Like penguins. Like penguins, yeah. I'm thinking of, like, predatory birds, like owls.
01:12:21
Speaker
If you think penguins are not predatory birds, you are wrong. They eat fish and stuff. I'm thinking of like... I know. i'm just saying. Yeah. But um I'm thinking like my first thought was like a snowy owl.
01:12:33
Speaker
Like they live in very frigid environments. But they're they also are covered in very thick feathers. and Yeah, so maybe that their feathers are thicker. Yeah. That's the thing with like early birds and like dinosaurs that became birds.
01:12:48
Speaker
They were feathered. They have fur. they're not going to become polar bears or whatever, but they have feathers. So dinosaurs and birds have feathers. that's with That's reality.
01:12:59
Speaker
Some dinosaurs, not all of them. Yeah. So here's what I'm thinking. So are you thinking like this, these race of intelligent creatures, are they warm blooded now? Are they more like birds? Okay. Okay.
01:13:10
Speaker
We've got a couple different scenarios that could be true simultaneously. You have the tribes that live in places where winter is a thing. Well, what do reptiles do in the winter? They hibernate. They go in the... Right.
01:13:23
Speaker
Yeah. So that requires preparation. That requires a lot of preparation to make sure everyone's going to be safe. um And they probably all huddle together, right? Like snakes do. Yeah.
01:13:41
Speaker
Snakes do, yes, but here's the thing of reptiles, since they're cold-blooded, they can't warm each other up. So they um they go dormant, there's not hibernation. um But they don't really... they don't There's no heat exchange when reptiles kind of but cuddle up to each other. um because they're fair bloodoed That's true. Yeah, so like...
01:14:01
Speaker
hollering up the air wouldn't do much unless they they become warm-blooded eventually. like That's what was going to ask. Is this race of creatures, are they warm-blooded? yeah Have they evolved enough to become closer to birds than dinosaurs?
01:14:13
Speaker
I think some of them have. Some of them? So there's different races? i think that's I think that's a fair thing to say. Okay. Right? like So, because some birds can live in warm places. and Yeah, but they're all warm-blooded, though.
01:14:31
Speaker
Okay. Fair. Because if you're talking like, yeah, all birds are warm-blooded, but if you're talking like intelligent reptiles, like monitor lizards are cold-blooded. cold-blooded. But like the difference between birds and reptiles are not that big of a difference. They're not, but they did take two drastically different evolutionary paths. Right. So, but, like, I'm just saying, like, if everyone started as dinosaurs and then we get birds and lizards, why couldn't we start as dinosaurs and get warm-blooded raptors and cold-blooded raptors?
01:15:05
Speaker
Interesting.
Survival Strategies of Intelligent Species
01:15:06
Speaker
Right? So here's what I'm thinking. Some tribes, just that that that particular race, they have to hibernate in the winter. ok Some live in the tropics. They don't want to worry about that.
01:15:20
Speaker
Some, now, I like this idea, but we'll see how you think about it. Some have survived in the colder areas, and they maybe they became warm-blooded.
01:15:36
Speaker
Okay? Mm-hmm. So they could be active during the winter, during the cold, right? That makes sense. Like, they developed, like, downy feathers to protect themselves. Right. Instead of more, like... Flamboyant, colorful feathers they use in, like, out the prairie. Right.
01:15:50
Speaker
So, but they're still smart. So what I'm thinking is, what I'm thinking is, is that they take out mastodons and use their fur to, like, they wear coats. They make coats for themselves. Interesting. Okay. So they they actually use the, it like, I guess, like, the the other, like, cold-blooded race, they use animal bones as houses. So, like...
01:16:16
Speaker
That's not too far-fetched that they use animal hide as covering. But, like, yeah, so, like, but those animals only live in the, like, really cold areas. So, like, they're not everywhere. Yeah.
01:16:30
Speaker
i imagine if, like, if there was an ice age on this planet, maybe it killed off the cold-blooded ones, and now you have the warm-blooded ones that are just, like, kind of surviving. Like...
01:16:41
Speaker
I'm not sure how far you along you want to go through this timeline, but, like, if there is an ice age on this planet, because, like, if you're going the Earth route, the ice age just happened because of plate tectonics and, like, shifting of the Earth's atmosphere and stuff. Because that happened, that happens with, like, volcanoes erupting and shit. So, like, what there was, like, a supervolcano that detonated?
01:17:00
Speaker
and really fuck shit up. But yet, like, you have, like, these relatively new race of warm-blooded super dinosaurs, essentially, like, super smart um feather theropod dinosaurs.
01:17:13
Speaker
Um, they have survived because they they kept warm. Like, they're warm-blooded, they figure out how to keep each other warm, they they, no fire, maybe. Yeah. man iss really You know, um like, the cold-blooded ones, they basically went dormant and never woke up, kind of thing. Or, there's, like,
01:17:31
Speaker
a very small population in, like, the equator where... they somehow were able to follow the warmth or whatever, but like but like a so like one like one or two tribes. Yeah.
01:17:47
Speaker
Like the last last remaining survivors of that race. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then like, I imagine like this race of like the warm-blooded, you know, dinosaurs, they they kind of became like, they kind of like followed ah followed our route of humans. Like they basically eventually maybe take over the world in some respect. to Like they...
01:18:06
Speaker
They're warm-blooded, so like they can survive in any environment. Cold or not. Like, if they get cold, they just put a jacket on. Like,
Cultural Diversity and Mimicry
01:18:13
Speaker
the cold-blooded ancestors, if they got cold, they're kind of toast. They have go dormant or die.
01:18:18
Speaker
So... Yeah. Yeah, and and maybe given even enough time, they end up people. I don't know.
01:18:32
Speaker
Well, I'm not sure how far down this timeline you want to Yeah, so that's the thing. Yeah. but i like did She didn't say that. she didn't the The prompt wasn't like... I'm comfortable like with keeping it there. Maybe they're like maybe in another million years they'll make cell phones or whatever.
01:18:47
Speaker
But like right now yeah they're kind of like the early humans, how they were. They nomadic. They were traveling around. They were following animals. They were following the climate.
01:18:59
Speaker
um But yeah, you had some... Human tribes that were comfortable living in the mountains their entire lives. They were built for that. So
01:19:10
Speaker
a timeline of like ancient people, like we're talking like even before the Greeks, right? Like before the Mesopotamians. Okay. i Yeah, I think that's fair.
01:19:24
Speaker
So is there anything else we want to add about this this this dinosaur world? I think it's like pretty good because now you have like the varying cultures where some of them were like, maybe some cultures are so like ah stuck in their ways. like They're still very ancient. Like, oh yeah, we're still go out and hunt these giant sauropod dinosaurs as like a ceremonial like rite of passage.
01:19:48
Speaker
But then like the ones in the mountains are like, why are you guys doing that? like We hunt mastodons like for supplies, but it's not like a ceremonial thing. like We just hunt them for supplies and food.
01:20:00
Speaker
And, like, their culture might involve other things that are ceremonial or special, but they're not, like, the ones, like, down in, like, the flatlands beyond the the all below the mountains where they're just, like, maybe they're still kind of, like, old-fashioned in a way.
01:20:15
Speaker
And then you have some that are strictly nomadic. Like, oh, the... Buffalo equivalent are moving this way. We ought to go follow them. And that's they kind of like. Yeah. i I think that's I think that's perfectly fair. Yeah. like I think there's like a ah ah ah different loss of different cultures of these. And ways of surviving this world.
01:20:35
Speaker
Slightly tall feathered velociraptors. Yeah. That can use tools. It's horrifying. Yes, it is. You have these giant like fucking murder muppets that just like murder muppets.
01:20:48
Speaker
Well, they're feathered like toothy clawed dinosaurs that some are warm blooded. So they could survive anywhere.
01:20:59
Speaker
They use tools. They have access to fire. And they communicate with little clicks and beeps and and bird noises.
01:21:09
Speaker
Yeah. That's terrifying. We all know that birds can make lots of different sounds. Yeah. Oh, I'm wondering, are these animals, are these creatures capable of mimicry?
01:21:21
Speaker
Because some intelligent birds... I think I think it... corvids and stuff, they will mimic noises. Like, there's no... There's a lot of theories of how mimicry evolved.
01:21:34
Speaker
But going back to like so like our world, ah what some birds use mimicry for, ah some birds will use mimicry to sound like predators. So it'll scare off other birds or like scare off like competing, like basically a male, a male bird would go up, sound like a hawk.
01:21:52
Speaker
And scare off other male birds that might encroach on his territory. Like, oh, we can't go There's a red-tailed hawk. That's scary. we don't want to deal with that. And it also might freak the predators out. Like, oh there's another hawk here. I don't want i want comfort confrontation.
01:22:04
Speaker
And then they'll also mimic other noises to, like, impress females. That's, like, they talk about the lyrebirds. I think it's mainly, like, lyrebirds and, like, ah mockingbirds.
01:22:15
Speaker
They mimic sounds to create an arsenal of audio that playback for a female they're trying impress. So that's some theories of like, or not theories, but like that's some ways how birds in our world use mimicry to their advantage.
01:22:32
Speaker
um So, like, I wouldn't pass put it past these animals, these creatures, to use mimicry to maybe lure prey or scare off predators or scare off encroaching invaders, like, from another encampment.
01:22:48
Speaker
um And that's how they maybe spread information around. Like, hey, I learned this cool noise from... the colony or that the tribe down the down the the the mountain range.
01:22:59
Speaker
And they use that noise to kind of spread information um or sound like something else that they're trying to you know do something. And ah and it would it would help them develop language too yeah exactly i just had another thought and what do you think about raptors that some raptors that lost their feathers okay and so they just they have uh a skilled skin like lizards but they're kind of like chameleons so they can change colors and so that they can like hide in trees and shit
01:23:33
Speaker
Okay.
01:23:36
Speaker
ah For one, chameleons don't change their colors to blend in so much. um They can if it's green, but like that's a total misconception about chameleons that they blend color to change colors into anything. Well, it takes a long time, so like yeah, no. like Mainly chameleons use them to blend in like ok green, brown, whatever, blend in with plant material, but like they if you put it against a brick wall, it's going to a brick wall.
01:23:57
Speaker
um But an octopus could. An octopus could. um But that's ah that's cephalopods. They're fucking wild. that's that they're They're aliens. i'm i'm i'm I'm convinced that they're aliens.
01:24:08
Speaker
ah But like... Talk about smart animals. Yes, very smart animals. They also change texture their skin. That's wild. Anyway... No, right? That's why they're awesome. he has mimicking octopus that look like other animals. Or try to mimic other animals. Anyway, that's a whole other fucking thing.
01:24:24
Speaker
They're fascinating. When it comes to chameleons, they they change color to express their mood. So you can lot of chameleons upset or when it's trying to look bigger to scare off another male or whatever.
01:24:36
Speaker
But anyway, birds don't camouflage. They
World-Building and Cultural Exploration
01:24:40
Speaker
don't change their skin. Okay. fine i was just I was just, again, I'm asking like with the same thing with tell like tell yeah telepathy. Where that emerge from? like i Listen, evolution... Evolution's weird. We don't fully understand it.
01:24:54
Speaker
So i was just yeah I was just thinking how terrifying it would be. have a giant talking, camouflaging, predatory murder muppet? Yes. That would be terrifying.
01:25:05
Speaker
Maybe too terrifying. It's just... Too scary for our podcast. Like, I'm trying think of, like, kind like, hybridizing what we know of dinosaurs and, like, birds from our, like, actual, like, modern world.
01:25:17
Speaker
Corvids are tool users. they They have mimicry. They use it to camouflage their voice to sound like other things. But don't... unless he can like think of a way like that evolved somehow Because you're talking about lizards again, but they're not evolving to be lizards. They're evolving to be birds. They're like... Okay.
01:25:36
Speaker
All right, that's fine. I was just... That's fine. No, no, no, it's That's just me. That's just me being I mean, and we're keeping... it This is Earth. It's not a different... There's no aliens. There's no magic. Yeah. yeah So that's fair.
01:25:49
Speaker
Yeah. So there's no aliens except for for for cuttlefish and octopus. Maybe. Yes. They're both wild. Okay. ah I think we've established a really cool world. Yes. I
Audience Engagement and Future Prompts
01:26:03
Speaker
like this a lot. um And if you would like us to establish a cool world based on one of your prompts, head on down to the Glitter Fox Media Discord, where we have a whole channel just for prompts, just for the show.
01:26:18
Speaker
And we may pick yours. And if we do, we're going we're going to say your name. And you can find the Discord in the show notes or glitterfoxmedia.com.
01:26:30
Speaker
Another world built, and you know what that means. We've got to have an adventure in it. So stay tuned for next time where we see what are intrepid fixers get up to.
01:26:45
Speaker
I've been Jerrica. And I'm Janine. And until next time, bye!