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Steph Davis
399 Plays8 months ago
Steph was Team GB’s fastest marathon runner at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and won the 2021 UK Olympic trials in a time of 2:27:16. Steph is a coach at Runna and this episode is all about training for your upcoming Spring events.
We chat about:
Where should you be now in your training plan ahead of your spring events.
What should you do if you miss sessions due to injury or illness.
Stephs, lower mileage & cross training approach to her training.
Stephs journey to becoming an Olympic marathon runner.
What is a de-load week and how to execute these effectively.
and much more!
You can grab an extended free trial at Runna using our code UKRUNCHAT1 all capitals here
If you would like to get in touch with any comments about the podcast you can on [email protected]
Follow Steph on Instagram
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Transcript
Introduction to Steph Davis and Marathon Training
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast. I'm your host Joe Williams and in this episode I chat with Steph Davis. Steph was Team GB's fastest marathon runner at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and won the 2021 UK Olympic trials in a time of 2.27.16. Steph is a coach at Runner and this episode is all about training for your upcoming spring marathons. We chat about
00:00:23
Speaker
amongst other things. Where should you be now in your training plan ahead of your spring events? What should you do if you miss training sessions due to injury or illness? We talk about Steph's lower mileage and cross training approach to her training and how you could potentially implement this. Steph's journey to becoming an Olympic marathon runner
00:00:41
Speaker
What is a de-load week? How to execute these effectively and loads more. You're
Steph's Running Journey and Team Sports
00:00:46
Speaker
going to love this one. You can grab an extended free trial with Runner using our code UKRUNCHAT1 all in capitals. That's on runner.com.
00:00:55
Speaker
If you'd like to get in touch with any comments about the podcast, you know you can. Just do that on info at ukrunchat.co.uk. Enjoy this chat with Steph and we'll see you on the next episode. Good morning, Steph. How are you? I'm sorry, it's 1201. Good afternoon, Steph. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How's your morning been? Now it's completed.
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's been good actually, just been working away this morning, did an early morning swim as well, which was nice, so always a refreshing way to start the day. Very nice, very nice. Well yeah, thanks for joining us, like I said in the intro. It's great to have you chatting with me today and giving all our listeners your tips for their upcoming spring events.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, because they're getting close now really, which is exciting. Yeah, time flies, time flies. So we have had a couple of questions come in via our social channels and I've got a couple to ask you as well.
00:01:50
Speaker
will crack on. I'd love to start with your journey though, if we can, specifically how you went from running your first marathon in 2018 to then being in the Olympics come 2020. Can you share your journey for our listeners to becoming an Olympic marathon runner?
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I did my first marathon in 2018, but before that and from a very
Training Approaches: Coaching and Cross-Training
00:02:18
Speaker
young age at school, I was always kind of very active, loved sports. My parents were very good at taking us to a variety of
00:02:25
Speaker
lessons from like tennis, dance, hockey, et cetera. And it wasn't until I joined a new school that I got into running. They had a school across country and I didn't want to embarrass myself being a new school. So I went really hard to try and run as fast as I could, but I actually really, really enjoyed it. And that kind of introduced me to a little bit of club running. My dad then took me and my sister down to a weekly track session.
00:02:54
Speaker
each week and kind of dabbled in the running but was still doing other sports too so I just had the variety but was building a good base level of fitness, would do some running races for the school and a few for my club but wasn't really privy to a kind of, I never went through a strict training regime
00:03:16
Speaker
And when I went to university, I joined the university running club. And again, that's probably where I had my first taste of different types of running sessions, but never was committed to running.
00:03:30
Speaker
fixed sessions for a set number of days a week, I still just kind of did what I really enjoyed doing. And there was a love the social aspect of it. So for me, it was going to the sessions because I have lots of friends there and love being around people. But I also love going to the gym doing spin classes and circuit classes. I just love the group environment of training. And then when I moved down to London, I kind of fell out of the running club circuit. I was working
00:03:58
Speaker
in an office job and just did my own training whenever suited me around like work and life and social things. So I ended up going to the gym a lot and doing a bit of easy running outdoors. And then my company, I was working for the time they were entering this yearly race called the JP Morgan Corporate Challenge. And I went along to, yeah, just run for the work team and placed okay. I just think because I had
00:04:26
Speaker
a relatively good base level of fitness and was good at pushing myself. And then the following year when that race came back around, one of my colleagues suggested that I join Tim to come down to Clapham Chasers in London to do some training sessions. So that's when I got them back into club running again. And through that, fast forward, I can't remember how many years, but I met my
00:04:45
Speaker
my now husband in 2017 at Clapham Chasers and he persuaded me then to enter the Berlin Marathon Ballet and the marathon was never on the radar but you know I wasn't on this ballot thinking I'll never get in and then I did get a slot and was like why not I'll just go for it. At that time someone,
Balancing Training Intensity and Injury Prevention
00:05:06
Speaker
another coach on the track had been seeing me training with the club and he had approached our club captain to see if
00:05:12
Speaker
and you did any advice or help. And because I had this marathon on the cards, I was like, well,
00:05:17
Speaker
I don't really know what I'm doing. So yes, some expertise would be great. So I took them up on that offer and I just went from there really. Never did I think, yeah, that I would then be qualifying for an Olympic team, but I just loved the marathon, the race itself and also the training and the structure and the discipline that even though I'd never done a full running training program, I was always pretty good at like,
00:05:42
Speaker
each week I'd plan out a week when I was going to go to the spin class, the circuit class, do this run around work and social things. So, yeah, a running schedule suited my personality. Yes. It just kind of went from there. And I guess when I ran London in 2019, that was my second marathon.
00:06:00
Speaker
I ran a nine-minute PB there running 2.32 and it wasn't until then I was like, oh wow, I'm actually really quite close to that Olympic qualifying time, which at the time was 2.29.30. When you run 2.32, the next step naturally anyway feels like, well, I'm going to go for sub 2.30 next time and that just happened to be the same as Olympic qualifying time, so I went for it.
00:06:25
Speaker
Wow. So let me let me go back. And first of all, I say congratulations, because I saw in your Instagram that you did get married next year, last year, didn't you? Yes, I did last September. Congratulations to your husband, you met in your running club. Very good. If we go
Pre-Race Routine and Mental Preparation
00:06:44
Speaker
back to your childhood, you mentioned that you're in lots of team sports. Was running your favorite or did you have a preference to a different sport when you were growing up?
00:06:54
Speaker
I'd say that running was definitely up there. The way it worked at my school is we played hockey in the winter and then running in the summer. But I loved the hockey, I would say, just as much.
00:07:05
Speaker
But with the hockey, we did fitness classes. And to be honest, I actually probably only made our school team because I was good at running around. I wouldn't say that I was particularly talented hockey player. My, you know, my ball skills weren't great, but I was able to run quickly to pick up the ball and pass on to the next person, which was really valuable as a midfielder. So I think that's, that was my strength. And I think as a kid, naturally,
00:07:31
Speaker
probably like what you're better at. And I did quite well in all the running races. So in that respect, it probably was my favorite, but I just love the team aspect of hockey. We got to go on hockey camps to abroad and we had a club on a Wednesday night that all my friends would go to. So I love that part of it. But yeah, I would say running probably maybe just pipped the line would be my favorite.
00:07:58
Speaker
You mentioned the group environments as well when you weren't running that you enjoyed that, don't you? That's why communities and things have taken off so much in running over the last 10 to 15 years because people do love that group interaction, don't they? Yeah, totally. Those corporate challenge, I used to work at Vodafone in a past career, those corporate events can get quite competitive, can't they?
00:08:23
Speaker
Oh yeah, I'm really convinced. Because I think a lot of people that work in those kind of jobs sometimes are just very driven. And whether they're good at naturally good at sport or not, there was definitely a good team morale going into that everyone wanted to try really hard. And actually, the JP Morgan challenge anyway, the field that turned up was actually really strong. And they had something like, it was over two races, two nights, it was like 15
Race Strategies and Adjustments
00:08:47
Speaker
,000 runners. So they pulled in a lot of people. And they were really good fun. Yeah.
00:08:52
Speaker
huge. Am I right in saying that you mentioned Berlin that you took a coach straight away for your first marathon you said didn't you? Yeah I took a coach straight away that just when it came on offer I thought it would just be silly to to turn it down because I didn't really know I could have gone along to the club sessions on a Tuesday and a Thursday but I didn't know what I was doing in between then and I certainly didn't know what I was doing
00:09:18
Speaker
with respect to the long runs. I studied Sports Science at uni, so I have an understanding of the human body and how it adapts training, but part of the degree is not how to be a running coach. So it's useful, but it doesn't give you the skills to make a running plan. I think that has come from, for me anyway, from my experience of training and working with coaches.
00:09:43
Speaker
Yes, and it sounds like you're an innate planner as well from what you described before. Yeah, I absolutely love planning. My last job in the office was an admin role. I was basically planning, I was a personal assistant, an executive assistant, so planning people's lives and diaries and getting them to the right places on time. So what was that like then, if you go out to that first marathon working with a coach?
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, it was eye-opening in the sessions I'd ever done before. We're always in a club environment and they're in a club environment. The sessions are great, but they're often catered for everyone. So whatever your ability is or whatever distance you're training for, the session is maybe a bit more generic.
00:10:32
Speaker
Whereas what I found with working with a coach directly, the sessions were then tailored to me and the distance I was training for. So that's now that when I'm coaching athletes is
00:10:44
Speaker
a lot of people want to go to group training sessions and they are so beneficial. But it is making sure that those sessions you're doing as part of a group are actually relevant for what you're training for. So for me, that was like the biggest thing that I learned was there was times I had to step away from the club sessions or adapt the club sessions slightly to make sure I was doing the right training for the marathon.
00:11:07
Speaker
So that was, yeah, a huge learning curve there. And then also just learning about the balance of the intensity. For me, we learned a lot about what I could tolerate. And I think that was something with the quote I was working with at the time, was a learning curve for him as well, because he hadn't worked with someone that maybe couldn't quite handle the higher mileage. And it wasn't until like after Berlin,
00:11:32
Speaker
we kind of picked up on that. But yeah, because sometimes with injuries, they come a bit later. And I got through that first marathon block relatively unscathed. But there was a lot of sessions I did that I was like, oh my goodness, these are crazy. But it was a really good way for me to become more in tune with my own body.
00:11:54
Speaker
and learn other ways of training that weren't just running that would still help me for running. And that's still something that I use a lot today.
00:12:07
Speaker
obviously doing some research before we've always spoken. I read a blog on SIS from yourself about marathon trading. And you speak about that, about lower mileage within your trading. Would you talk a little bit more about that? I think that there is a belief that you have to just keep piling the mileage on, I suppose. Some people believe. But you've got a different approach, haven't you?
00:12:37
Speaker
Yeah, high mileage has, it's just never worked for me. And I would say like, I haven't even got to really that high, high mileage that a lot of elite runners refer to. I know like, if we're marathon training, everyone talks about, not even just marathon training, some of the shorter distance runners will do this too, but there's a lot of focus on 100 miles in a week, which is around 160k. And that's just something that I've never, ever got close to.
00:13:06
Speaker
When I trained for Berlin, I was kind of averaging more around like 90k a week. Definitely there was weeks that were a lot lower than that. That's just the average if I looked at the weeks across the 10-week program. But I would only peak around kind of 120k. And that's still something that I do now. Like I couldn't run 120k consistently week on week.
00:13:31
Speaker
without breaking down. Whereas there's some runners out there that will be able to handle 160k week on week on week with no issues. And that's just something that I can't tolerate. So we have then supplemented those, let's call them missing miles with non-impact forms of training. For me, I've actually experimented with quite a few forms of
00:13:53
Speaker
of what that training looks like. At the moment, I'm doing a lot more in the pool and on the bike. In the past, I did a lot on the elliptical. And to be honest, I wouldn't say one's any better than the other because I actually quite enjoy all those forms of training. So I'm able to get
00:14:11
Speaker
like a lot out of myself, push myself hard, train well. So I think if you are looking to do cross training it's finding like what you enjoy and what you feel like you can push yourself the hardest on because you could go on the cross trainer but you just don't feel like maybe you're as skilled at it or you can't get your heart rate up whereas if you find it
00:14:31
Speaker
You've maybe had swimming lessons as a kid and you're a pretty competent swimmer so you know that you can get in the pool and push it, then that's probably a better option for you. But the way I add that to my training is I
Recovery, Hobbies, and Personalization
00:14:41
Speaker
don't do any double run days. So any, and I train two sessions a day, most days, but my second session will always be either in the pool or on the bike or elliptical.
00:14:53
Speaker
And the time that I do that for is usually kind of the same amount of time as I would if I was running. But maybe add about 10 to 20 minutes, depending on where I'm at in my week. Because with cross-training, you do need to train a bit longer in the sessions to get the same benefit as when you're running. But the great thing about them is you can get the same benefit. But without having that load through your body, it's just kinder on your body and reduces your chance of injury.
00:15:22
Speaker
So for me, I've just found that I can tolerate more training load without getting injured. Yes. So give us an example of a typical training week then. So you said you've been for your swim this morning. So this afternoon and onwards. Yeah. So typically on a normal training week, if I'm in a marathon build, I would do a cross train and an easy run on a Monday.
00:15:48
Speaker
Tuesday I would do track session and then I would actually get in the pool in the afternoon and do a harder swim session. So that Tuesday is like a double threshold day. And then Wednesday I would do a run and my main gym session of the week. If I'm feeling like well recovered and energetic enough after like the Tuesday being a hard day, then I would possibly add like a 30, 40 minute just easy cross train as well.
00:16:15
Speaker
But it's listening to your body and just adapting. And then Thursday's actually my non-run day. So I don't do any running on that day, but I will do a double cross train. So I will do a bike in the morning and then a swim in the afternoon. And then Friday I have my tempo session and then again, like an optional easy cross train, which
00:16:37
Speaker
nine times out of 10, I will do in the afternoon. And then on Saturday, easy run, easy swim usually. And then Sunday is long run day. And because that's long run day, I just have the one session. I don't add a cross training cross training session to that. Yeah. So what does it, I'm just trying to get my head round. What does a harder swim look like compared to an easier swim? What's the difference in those two training sessions for somebody wanting to start implementing that?
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, so where I'm based at Leeds, we actually have someone coaching us through these sessions. So myself and another athlete who also kind of trains the same kind of approach as me, he basically coaches us through these sessions and they'll
00:17:19
Speaker
Like a run session, they'll have intervals in them. So we'll do some reps that are slower to warm up into it. We'll have some drills in there just like we would with our running drills. We have some swim drills. And then we'll progress into the swim session. And an example session might be like 16 by 100 meters off. Well, it depends how quick you're doing them. But usually the recovery is pretty short. It's like 10, 15 to 20 seconds.
00:17:47
Speaker
So for those will go quite hard and then we'll be followed by a cool down. So you can just plan them in like the same way as you do your running sessions almost and then like an easy swim.
00:17:59
Speaker
It's just going to effort again. I now know roughly what my easy swim pace is because I've quite experienced and done a lot of swimming myself. But like running, that easy swim pace is going to fluctuate day to day, just depending how tired I am. And with an easy swim, I still will break it down into intervals because
00:18:18
Speaker
I can get quite a lot just swimming loads and loads of lengths but how I break them down just again can kind of vary just depending on what I fancy that day and I'll keep the the breaks short so no more than like 20 seconds between the breaks I do and I try to keep the intervals like a bit longer so kind of 200 meters or above and I'll swim for roughly like two to two and a half k.
00:18:42
Speaker
So do you consider your Thursday, like your rest day, because you're not running? Well, I'm just, I'm intrigued as to how that. Yeah. So I don't definitely in the past, like I have.
00:18:53
Speaker
maybe falling in the trap, especially if I have days where maybe I've only got one cross train, I'm like, oh, it's practically a rest day. But it's obviously not because you're still doing something. And I think sometimes a rest day is just as important mentally as it is physically. But if I'm going to take a rest day in the week, it would be on that Thursday because I'd prefer to miss a cross training day rather than a run day.
00:19:13
Speaker
But if I'm building up to if I have a race, then my taper week would look would look pretty different. So we the rest day would be more factored in and what's best around the race. Yeah. OK, well, I'll come back to you tape. And in a moment, we've had a question from the community that that they'll lead into that nicely as well. So so if we go into your role as a coach now, if we if
00:19:39
Speaker
Let's take this as an example of, say, people who are running London. 10, 11 weeks away, isn't it?
00:19:48
Speaker
Where would you expect your coachees to be at this point six weeks in and what the crucial things they should be doing now around? And I know I'm not giving you a specific time and a very specific coachee here, but where would you expect them to be now being six, seven weeks into their programme and 10 weeks to go?
00:20:13
Speaker
Yeah, so you really want to be making sure that those long runs are up a good distance now because the way I coach my athletes is we'll factor in like de-load weeks every three to four weeks. So that means you kind of need to make sure your long runs all have started by now. And when I say long, it's really going to depend on your ability. But for someone who maybe is
00:20:37
Speaker
let's say on their second or third marathon, they've done a marathon before, they're used to running kind of four times a week, you probably want to be up there at least kind of like the high 20s for your long runs and those sessions are going to be the key one of the week in the next 10 weeks. I'd say you can not get so bogged down about kind of fast speed work so track sessions are great but for the marathon we don't need to tap into that speed
00:21:06
Speaker
because it's a long way to go. So you want to focus more on kind of tempo to marathon pace sessions. Ideally any speed work will have been done earlier on the block so that you have that speed in your legs and then you're building from that to get the endurance for the marathon. So your key session should be that long run and then your tempo or marathon pace and how many of them you do a week will
00:21:32
Speaker
will depend on how much you're running in that week because you don't want to do too much intensity whilst you're progressing those long run distances each week. Otherwise, that kind of increases your injury risk. And for the marathon, it's really about making sure that you
00:21:51
Speaker
have that consistency in training and you don't tip it over the edge, push it too much in back to back weeks that you then can't get to the marathon in one piece. That is the key thing is
00:22:06
Speaker
is focusing on what works for you and not comparing mileage, volume of long run, et cetera, to other people. And that's why falling a plan is great or working with someone like another coach or an app like Runner who sets out your training for you based on your ability, how many days a week you know you can run and sticking to that. But yeah, the key thing just now with 10 weeks to go is definitely those long runs.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah, and you mentioned Runner there, so Runner are our partners and you're our third wonderful guest from the team at Runner over there. Great. You've had Ben and Anne you run as well. Amazing. I've had lots of great advice. Yeah, really good. You mentioned D-load weeks there. Just talk to us a little bit more about that. What might a D-load week look like?
00:22:56
Speaker
So your D-load week is basically a week that you have less training, and that should come in every three to four weeks, and your mileage will be around like 60 to 70% less than the week previous to that. And just offloading a bit allows your body to recover from the training you've done, adapt to the training you've done, so then the following week you can build again.
00:23:20
Speaker
They're really, really important for all runners, but even more so if you are new to running and you're trying to build those long run distances, because if we find someone who's maybe less experienced is doing high 20s, 30K runs back to back, that is a lot on the body. And in order for them to get the training benefit from them and the consistency in their training,
00:23:45
Speaker
They need to make sure they have that time to recover from them so they can do the next one. So we put them in to make sure that we're just giving that body the time to offload, recover, adapt. And in that time when you're running less,
00:24:01
Speaker
I would always say to my athletes that they can definitely add more cross-training, non-impact training. So they're still working on their aerobic system, their endurance, but they're just offloading the joints and bones. There is research as well, which I'm not a physio, so I don't know exactly the
00:24:22
Speaker
the science and the papers to look at. But from working with physios myself, we like to put deload weeks in because it times well with how your bones remodel. And by adding those deload weeks in, it gives your bones the time to regenerate, rebuild. Yeah. So particularly important for things, for avoiding things like stress fractures or stress reactions, shin splints, that kind of thing. Yes.
00:24:48
Speaker
In terms of how people have influenced that then, would you just chop that 60-70% off your long run or would you just spread it across all of the runs in the week? What might that look like?
00:25:02
Speaker
I would definitely take a chunk off your long run. So say if you had like a 30K run the week before, you probably want to drop that next run down to at least kind of 20, 22K, so significantly reducing it. And then you'll want to take some of the intensity out your interval sessions as well. If we can de-load the intensity as well as the volume, then we're really, really giving that body time to recover. Yes. Perfect.
00:25:30
Speaker
So I'll move on to a question from the community, leading nicely to that. So Thomas Sampson, he's asked, well, his comment was he's currently on week six of an 18-week marathon plan, but he missed last week due to injury. Currently attending physio, hopes to be back out again at the end of next week. His question to you was how many missed sessions or missed weeks or too many during marathon training?
00:25:56
Speaker
I think it really depends on what he's doing to keep fit whilst he's missed these running sessions, because if Thomas has been cross training and working hard on the bike or the elliptical or in the pool, then he'll still keep in a really good base level of fitness. But if he's not done anything, then in that time of being out, if it's only a week, you're not going to lose a lot. But if it starts to become like two weeks, three weeks, then you will start to lose some fitness. But by adding that cross training,
00:26:24
Speaker
you can keep that fitness in there. And then when you start reintroducing running again, you want to just make sure you're doing that carefully, whether it's guided by a physio or coach, or just make sure you don't launch straight back into your plan. But I think if he's on week six of 18, we're
00:26:41
Speaker
We're in the early stages of the block really, so I definitely wouldn't rule anything out and still keep his goals in mind, but it's really going to depend how much time he has out. I can see here that he's hoping to be back in by the end of next week, but he's not sure.
00:26:57
Speaker
And I think just make sure that when you do those first runs back, you just want to make sure you're doing a few easy runs first before you start introducing any intensity to make sure you feel confident that you're paying free on those easy runs before you start any speed work or marathon pace work or long runs.
00:27:15
Speaker
but if you can cross train alongside either no running or reduced running because you're injured, then I think you'll get to marathon, you'll surprise yourself on marathon date, you won't really have lost any fitness.
00:27:28
Speaker
There you go, Thomas. Thank you. How should a runner adapt if they do miss that week or two training and they do feel it in their fitness when they come back? Is it just a case of altering their final goal or what would you say? Yeah, I think they've had a long time out, but they're still set on doing the marathon in a lot or the race that they've got planned, which a lot of people are quite set on it because
00:27:57
Speaker
We plan these races in and we plan other parts of our life around these races or maybe we're doing it for a charity and we don't want to let people down. But if you've had, I'd say more than two weeks out because of injury, I would definitely adjust your expectations from the race and don't put so much pressure on yourself to hit that time that maybe you set out to at the start. And sometimes that's really hard to deal with because you do, you plan these races in advance and you have big goals and ambitions and you're really excited by it.
00:28:27
Speaker
but it's not the only time you'll ever get to race and from these injuries we can learn
00:28:33
Speaker
things that we did wrong, things that we could do better, things that we could change within our training or add within our strength plan to avoid it next time and also make us just stronger. So I think if you've had more than two weeks out, you're definitely adapt. If it's only been a week, then I would ease yourself back in with something like a deload week where you have less running and then providing everything's okay from that deload week, then you could progress back into your training as normal.
00:29:03
Speaker
And that sounds like good advice to the people who've perhaps picked up a bug or something and are cold and they haven't trained properly for a week as well. I suppose that's all applicable, isn't it? Yeah, it's so calm this time of year to pick up a bug. There's so many things going around and I have athletes that I coach and we have athletes reaching out to us on run, saying that they're ill, what should they do? So I think with a marathon training plan especially, or any training plan really,
00:29:27
Speaker
never expect it to be 100% perfect because you'll find it really hard to find a runner who has done a 12 or 16 week build and not had to change one or two things or miss one or two runs at least, like at least something always goes wrong or
00:29:47
Speaker
just you need to be a bit flexible because you feel tired or something's come up at work or with the family or whatever. It's just not putting so much pressure that you have to tick everything off so perfectly. If you miss the odd session here or there, it's going to be fine. I'm not saying that that means you could just
00:30:07
Speaker
ditch or run every week and you'll still get to the race in the same shape. But if it is just the odd run here or there or the odd week that just went to pot for whatever reason, it's not all game over. Yeah. I mean, it's normal for a lot of people, isn't it? You know, life, work, children, family, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:29
Speaker
We had another question from Darren last. He asked about the day before a marathon. What do you do? Do you watch a film? Do you go for a walk? Do you spend time with your family? And then he said, I guess the question is, how do you kill that time and natural anxiety slash excitement for the next day? So I feel like Darren's asking two questions there. One really about how you prepare physically the day before. And the second is about mental preparation as well.
00:30:58
Speaker
Can you comment on that? Yeah so I actually take my like complete rest day the two days before my race so if the race on a Sunday I'll have a Friday off and then on the Saturday I would do like a 15 minute jog with four to five strides just to
00:31:17
Speaker
stride out the legs and those strides do not or should not be like flat out super fast around like race pace is absolutely fine. I just like to get moving a little bit I find that makes me feel better on race day so that kills a bit of time and I don't rush to maybe get up and do that at the crack of dawn but I do aim to get it done definitely kind of mid-morning well before lunch because then I want to spend the rest of the day just chilling out
00:31:44
Speaker
I try and yeah like if I'm abroad for a race or even just at home like you don't want to feel like you're just locking yourself indoors all day because that can make the day drag. So getting out for a little like light walk or walking out for coffee or something just to break up the day is great.
00:32:00
Speaker
But then I'm just focusing on what I need to organize for the race itself, making sure I've got my kit already, my number. Sometimes you might have to go pick up your number, so that's a little trip out. And I don't do any sort of like thinking about the race itself.
00:32:16
Speaker
the day before, so I'll have planned out my race plan well within earlier in the week as to what I'm doing. So when it comes to those days before, I am maybe rehearsing through my mind what it's going to look like and visualising it a bit, but I'm not debating with myself what happens if this happens, what am I going to do here,
00:32:36
Speaker
that's all done because I find I like to have got all those kind of let's call them stressors and worries maybe about pacing out the way before, had conversations with my coach about how he thinks I should run the race so that when it comes to the day before I'm literally just like prepping my drinks, getting my kit ready, watching a film, having an early tea, because often for these marathons you're up at the crack of dawn the next day so and then it's trying to get to bed at a good time and just
00:33:04
Speaker
Yeah, relax. But going out for a walk is absolutely fine. Like don't feel you need to sit indoors all day and not move because you want to save all your energy for the next day. Like some movement is good because if we just sit still or you feel like you maybe seize up, things get a bit tight whereas just movement keeps you a bit more mobile. Yeah.
00:33:23
Speaker
What's your thought process during a race? I don't know, this will change for each race. So for example, how do you decide when to push the pace or when to hold back, for example?
00:33:36
Speaker
So I would say I'm a pretty cautious runner in the sense that, and I sometimes wish I could be more brave at the start, especially for shorter distances like a five or a 10K. I feel like with those sort of races, you can risk it a bit and just try and hold on. Whereas for a marathon, you definitely
00:33:55
Speaker
don't want to do that or even a half. So for those longer races I have my race plan and I'm just really quite strict with how I stick to that and my pacing and for me I like to make sure that I'm like
00:34:08
Speaker
feeling quite in control for the first third before I then decide whether I'm going to make a move or not. Sometimes those moves and when I decide to pick up the piece is maybe dictated by what's happening around me. For instance, when I was racing in Valencia in 2019,
00:34:26
Speaker
group that I was in a pacing group for 229.30 and that actually was going a bit quicker than I had planned but I just decided in the moment to kind of commit to it and see what happens and it did pay off that day but for other marathons I've
00:34:44
Speaker
gone out a bit more reserved and then negative splitted. So my second half is a bit quicker. And I just find for me, that is a better way to run it. I know a lot of people might say, oh, I'm going to go out a bit faster so I can bank some time. I think when you've got such a long way to go, you could end up ever doing so much time into it if you've overcooked it. So it's about using that race plan to keep your focus during the race. That's kind of what I'm thinking about when I run is
00:35:12
Speaker
this was my plan till X kilometre. I also use my nutrition, especially in the longer races. In a marathon, I'm like, right, get to 7k, you're going to have your gel. And that just helps break it down. Because if you start thinking about the race as a whole, sometimes it can feel quite daunting. And similarly, with like a 5k, it's just for me, like, I'd be like, right, get the first 2k done. And then before you know it, you're almost halfway.
00:35:38
Speaker
And then after you run 3K, you've only got 2K to go and then it really is just like head down and push as hard as you can. So I find like whether it's using distance markers or your nutrition plan or seeing people on the course or landmarks, just try and break it down.
00:35:55
Speaker
into chunks and just take each chunk as it comes, rather than trying to think about the whole race. Because that can sometimes feel quite daunting, especially when maybe you're in a tougher patch and you're thinking, oh, I've still got X amount to go, how am I going to do it? Just don't think about it. Just think about that next block that you have in your mind. Yeah, nice. You mentioned negative splits there. I believe you run that with that plan at the Olympic trials.
00:36:22
Speaker
Yes, so Olympic trials is actually one of my favourite races because I already had the Olympic qualifying time. So for me, this was a good chance to actually just race a marathon, whereas the previous marathons I've always been running to for a time.
00:36:40
Speaker
So I had to come top two in order to secure my spot. But for me, it didn't matter on the day, whether I ran that time or not, because I'd already done it. If I hadn't run the time, I would have had to come top two and run the time. So I was just focusing on being in the group. So we went out at like a 2.28, 30 pace. That was what the paces were instructed to run at. And then from halfway, I was feeling good. So then I was able to push on and run faster in that second half.
00:37:10
Speaker
And maybe it was because I felt like I had like a little bit less pressure, time pressure on me that I was able to kind of just relax into it and just run to feel rather than being obsessed about looking at my watch. But it meant, yeah, that I had a really strong negative split that day. And I think I often wonder like maybe if I hadn't been in a pace group at the start, could I run quicker? Who knows? But yeah, I think
00:37:37
Speaker
I have such fond memories of that race that I wouldn't change anything now, but it does make you think. But I think if you're going to take a risk in a marathon, you want to do it from halfway because that's really when the race starts. Yeah, yeah. And the way you mentioned running to feel then, it's
00:37:57
Speaker
It's interesting psychologically, isn't it? You made your comment there about racing a marathon versus running for a time that that psychologically impacts. And everybody at all levels is too interesting. And it's so hard to run a marathon to feel, especially at the start because
00:38:15
Speaker
I mean, hopefully you will feel good at the start because you're only 5k and then you've got another 37 to go. So in theory, you should be feeling good with 5k. So then it's easy for people to be like, oh, I'm feeling good. I'll just pick it up now.
00:38:30
Speaker
I think the more marathon experience you have, the better you become at that. But I think that's probably why I mean, I was very happy when I ran Berlin in 241, but I definitely was so scared about hitting the wall with that last 10K that everyone talks about that it definitely made me pace my first half of that race a bit more reserved. And I'm not saying that I could have gone like loads and loads quicker. But I think if it's your first marathon, just take the definitely take the pressure off and
00:39:00
Speaker
enjoy that first bit soak it all up and then from halfway or from 10k to go that's when really go for it and okay maybe you'll finish and be like oh I think maybe I could have pushed harder but that's what you then learn for your next one whereas if you overcook it in the first half I think I've just there's just so many stories out there of people just losing so much time and making it miserable and if it's your first one like you do want to really enjoy it as well yeah definitely definitely
00:39:30
Speaker
What's the best piece of advice you've been given for you running? It probably changes at different points in my career. At this moment I would say it's like, because I feel like I'm more an experienced athlete now, it's like also trusting my own gut on things and on how I'm feeling and
00:39:52
Speaker
and having that ownership of my training as well. You can work with a coach and my coach is amazing and the best thing is that he is very receptive to me speaking about how I'm feeling and if I need to change things. But it's making sure that you do speak up if you feel like you need to take an extra rest day or you want to
00:40:15
Speaker
change something in your training plan because you know it works for you. It's just taking a little bit of ownership of that training and then you're more likely to have something that is totally tailored to you because even as coaches we can't feel what someone's feeling. So it's not being afraid to kind of say how you're feeling in a training block and adapting things as you go because
00:40:38
Speaker
you know your body best and if you feel like something's too much or too little, that's where you can get the best out yourself by making tweaks and training. But if you're new to learning, because that's probably an advice for someone who's more experienced, then as cliche as it sounds, it's really like focus on yourself.
00:40:57
Speaker
because I think in my first couple of marathon builds where I've had periods of really bad injuries and it's because I've been obsessed with everyone else talking about these big mileage weeks and I've then tried to push the edge on where my tolerance levels are and it's just caused me to break down. Whereas if I just focus on what I know works for me, then I couldn't have caught myself into that situation. Yeah, listen to your own body. So important. Yeah.
00:41:24
Speaker
Have you got any go-to recovery methods? You've probably spoken about them in terms of how you structure your training. Any weird and wonderful ones?
00:41:34
Speaker
No, nothing weird and wonderful. I think I have a history of under-fueling and now I've kind of probably on the opposite end of the spectrum where I'm just so obsessed, especially when you're in that 10 weeks before marathon and the training is ramping up, is making sure that I'm really prepared with recovery drinks or snacks after my sessions because they are so key in making sure that you recover well and don't get injured because if you under-fuel,
00:42:04
Speaker
you're not going to have enough energy and that is how you will potentially break down, whether it's from fatigue or a niggle. So it's just making sure I plan out all my meals and I have plenty of snacks and stuff in the house or in my bag and just being organised with that. But I think nutrition is just so key. So for me, the big recovery thing is making sure I'm getting enough fuel in. Which race has been your personal favourite?
00:42:34
Speaker
I would say Olympic trials was an amazing race, especially because it was during COVID and felt very fortunate to be able to be part of a group race again. But I also just absolutely loved London Marathon, my second race. I was running in the championship group then and
00:42:55
Speaker
I just had such a ball. I think being, I lived in London at the time, so like running through your hometown city and seeing so many people you know out in the course and just the atmosphere there was incredible. So it's kind of given me like the, I kind of want to do more of the marathon majors to have that buzz again. Because I just, yeah, I absolutely loved it. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible London, isn't it? Yeah.
00:43:19
Speaker
that crowd. So, even for the non-elite runners, you feel like you're winning the Olympics with your average, it's incredible. It's next level, yeah. I don't know anyone that hasn't rated that atmosphere, I think. And it's just from start to finish as well. There's very few like patches where it's a bit quieter, whereas like when I ran
00:43:39
Speaker
in the Olympics itself and even when I ran in Berlin there was maybe some spots that were just a bit quieter on the course where you could probably really have done with a bit of a boost. Yeah. How do you wind down? What's your favourite other hobby I suppose is the question? Yeah, I'm not very good at sitting still so this is something that I'm really trying to like focus on so that I am like really, I've nailed the nutrition when it comes to recovery but I've not nailed like the
00:44:09
Speaker
sitting and chilling even if I'm on the sofa still I'm always like doing a bit of work or researching something but I also just really enjoy like cooking and baking so that's something that I can do obviously from home and I find just quite relaxing so yeah I'd say alongside something non-sporting would be yeah being in the kitchen but um I also just love being on my bike so that's if I wasn't doing running I think I'd train pretty hard to be good on the bike
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah. What's your best baking recipe? What can you whip up? I like just making it like banana bread or like flapjacks. So good snack options around training. They're my go to. Nice. I've been researching flapjacks, but low fob map flapjacks I've been researching this weekend. Yeah. I need recipes, email them over. That'd be great. You can just put in like so many toppings into your flapjacks to like experiment a bit to see what you like best. And I always think if it doesn't,
00:45:05
Speaker
If your flapjacks go to pot, then you get some good granola out of it anyway. Brilliant. Steph, thanks ever so much for coming and chatting to us. It's been lovely, been great, and thanks for your tips and advice for everybody.
00:45:21
Speaker
Tell us about your story, it's been brilliant. For our listeners, Steph is one of the coaches at Runner, our partner's Runner, the coaching app. If you haven't yet, you can get an extended free trial with Runner using our code, UKRUNCHAT1, all in capitals.
00:45:39
Speaker
Brilliant team there. If you haven't already, there's two other podcasts, as we mentioned before, from some of Steph's teammates at Runner, one with Ben and one with Anya. And this is the third in the series of podcasts that we're hosting with our friends at Runner. And there's more to come over the next couple of months. Steph, thanks ever so much. Thank you. It's been great. Yeah, it's been lovely. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.