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07 Diversity and Inclusion in the Workplace with Ceclia Stanton Adams
123 Plays2 years ago
In today's business environment, change is a constant, not just in procedure but in people. We talk to leading diversity expert Cecilia Stanton Adams of the Adams group about how including different people into your ecosystem can help you grow.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Dial It In' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk with interesting people about the process improvements and tricks they use to grow their businesses. I'm Dave Meyer, president of Busy Web, and every week, Trigby Olsen and I are bringing you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in for their organizations.
Challenges in Hiring for Diversity
00:00:24
Speaker
Normally, Dave, I start our podcast together by saying something kind of funny. I don't feel particularly funny today. Oh, I've been...
00:00:34
Speaker
I've been hiring for a new position and I've been meeting people after people after people and I'm sick of talking about myself. But it's been an interesting process because I've been trying to find somebody who doesn't think like me and somebody who isn't a replication of me and somebody who can help us
00:00:57
Speaker
at BusyWeb be different and be better. And so that's why today's guest is going to be so particularly helpful for me as well as somebody else. Well, really anybody else.
Understanding Unconscious Bias
00:01:10
Speaker
Our guest today is an expert in diversity and equity and inclusion in hiring in corporate America. She is most noted for her ability to foster major paradigm shifts, change behavior,
00:01:26
Speaker
and empowering individuals, teams, and community. She's a trainer, an award-winning trainer, and she has extensive research on unconscious bias by the American Psychological Association. Amazing. Yeah, we've massively outkicked our coverage in terms of guests by having somebody today, which I am honored to call my friend Cecilia Stanton Adams. Hi, Cecilia.
00:01:54
Speaker
Hi, Trikby. Hi, Dave. How are you? Wonderful. Great to meet you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I want to talk first about, I read, Dave, your bio a little. Let's talk about unconscious bias because I think that's a fascinating subject to start with, and I want to learn more about that. Tell our listeners, what do you mean? What is that? Oh, gosh, yes. So I had no clue what that was until I went to Lehigh University. I did a pre-doctoral fellowship there.
00:02:21
Speaker
which means you're doing research in the lab. And I got an opportunity to actually bring participants in and measure their reaction times when they're looking at certain pictures and paired with certain words. And what you can do with the right technology is you can measure in milliseconds how quickly people respond to certain stimuli.
00:02:45
Speaker
And the long story short is that within milliseconds, people categorize others based on race, gender, age, and a whole host of other dimensions. And this is within milliseconds, so it's not even within our consciousness. We don't even realize it, but it's there because of all the years of socialization.
00:03:08
Speaker
All of the things that we hear from the community, from society, from the news, all of that shapes what our brain is telling us is either safe or unsafe. And so our reactions, our quick reactions are in response to what we learn.
00:03:26
Speaker
So, you know, like one of the things I hear, especially in New York, it's like, you know, if someone who is white has a purse and they're walking down the street and then there's a black man approaching them that they're, you know, more likely to kind of grab the purse or maybe like go to the other side of the street.
Influence of Socialization on Perception
00:03:44
Speaker
That's an example of how that millisecond reaction time can impact someone's behavior.
00:03:50
Speaker
And in some cases, yeah, like if you're a female and walking down the street and it's dark and any male approaching could be dangerous, right? But also think about when you're walking down the hallway of your child's school and that same situation happens. There isn't a threat, but those same automatic reactions could still come up.
00:04:14
Speaker
So that was fascinating to me and it really moved me away from this idea of people either get it or they don't because it's far more complicated than that.
00:04:26
Speaker
Is that relative to age? Because Dave and I are of the age where I think we are sort of the first Sesame Street generation. And there were, when I was growing up watching Sesame Street, there were, I remember Gordon was on there, who was an African-American guy and Emilio was there and he just passed away recently.
00:04:51
Speaker
And I didn't learn until later in life that those people were different. I just thought those were the people. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:59
Speaker
You know that's that's part of it right the younger we are the less of those Models we have built in us. So here's a really simple one, you know One of the dimensions that we really kind of hardwire into folks from a very early age is gender Right. Think about it. Like before you were even born, you know Like you'll have people buying you pink if you're if they know it's a girl
00:05:23
Speaker
or blue if it's a boy. And then when you start playing with toys, not all genders get to play with dolls and trucks without sometimes getting that reaction from society. And it doesn't have to be just your parents. Sometimes your parents can work really hard to expose the child to all kinds of different activities regardless of the gender stereotype. But then they're gonna go out in the world and they're gonna be reinforced by what society says.
00:05:50
Speaker
Like, oh, that's dumb. Why are you playing with that truck? You're a girl. You should play with a dog. So slowly again, we start building that framework of thinking. It's almost like a file cabinet. And when you see something for the first time, you create a file folder for it. And then everything that you learn subsequently about that, you put in that file folder.
00:06:14
Speaker
Right. So now in the future, when I'm now looking at this thing, I'm pulling that file folder out and I'm opening it up and I'm saying, okay, what's in there? What's in there to help me know what this is?
Impact of Societal Standards on Self-Image
00:06:26
Speaker
And, you know, for some things, we've definitely learned a lot of stereotypes and part of our work is on learning that.
00:06:34
Speaker
I just watched an interview with a comedian whose name is Nikki Glaser. She's sort of the 21st century Don Rickles. And they asked her, are men funnier than women? And her answer really surprised me. And her answer was, well, kind of.
00:06:51
Speaker
And it's not that as a gender men are funnier, but as kids, when little boys talk about farts and talk about their butts, it's laughed at and, oh, that's cute. Oh, that's funny. But when girls do it, no, no, you don't talk about it that way. And that really affected me as somebody who's raising a little boy who thinks his butt is really funny, that I need to be looking at a little differently.
00:07:18
Speaker
Is it fair to say that we all have biases? Yes. And actually you just made me think of a really great example. So my daughter is 27 and she teaches me a lot about diversity and inclusion just because of her generational difference. And I was talking to her about wanting to do this performance, but I really wanted to get in the gym and I wanted to train and I wanted to look a certain way. And she's like, mom, that's socialization. Why do you have to look a certain way?
00:07:47
Speaker
Why could the way you look now be good enough? We're going back and forth and I'm like, yeah, there's some things that are just hardwired in me that I've learned along the way that I couldn't even point to if I could because it's so ingrained.
00:08:05
Speaker
in the way that I think. But ever since we had that conversation, I've been thinking, wow, how much does beauty factor in to whether I think I'm good enough or whether I can pursue a specific task or opportunity? Those are the things that I think sometimes stand in our way of seeing our own potential and then seeing the potential in others.
00:08:31
Speaker
I know for me personally, I am very much not a small man. And so I make very careful choices about how I dress when I'm in front of potential clients. Like Dave makes fun of me because basically my entire professional wardrobe is varying colors of Sherbert.
00:08:55
Speaker
But I'm doing that on purpose because black is an intimidating color, especially when there's a lot of it on a very large man coming at you.
Importance of DEI in Modern Businesses
00:09:07
Speaker
It's such a fascinating enterprise. But I want to get into really the meat of why we have you here today, Cecilia, which is
00:09:13
Speaker
to talk about diversity and equity and inclusion. So as a philosophy, how has that come into the cultural discussion for companies as something that they need to focus on? Well, I think there are a lot of
00:09:30
Speaker
situations that have come up that have come happen together and created this complex situation, right? So number one, our demographics are changing across the nation. And we know this and we see it far more, you know, like on the East Coast and on the West Coast, right? There's far more diversity in many different ways. And as a result, that's changed our client markets, right? So who we serve are they're becoming different.
00:09:59
Speaker
And so for companies, they're realizing, wow, like we've always served this specific audience or a specific market. But now they're changing ethnically, religiously. Now there's many more people that identify across the gender spectrum. But if an organization can't speak to those markets, then what happens is they become irrelevant. That is the driving business case.
00:10:26
Speaker
I mean, if you want to stay around, you have to get this. It's almost like 20 years ago, organizations saying, ah, this technology thing. We're not getting into that. We know that they're mostly likely not around anymore. And I think that's the same thing with diversity, that market is driving it. But also we have a talent shortage.
00:10:48
Speaker
So we've known now for over a decade, the data has been telling us that we're going to have far more people retiring out of the workplace than we have coming in. And even if we tried to find a way to really leverage all the untapped talent, like people coming out of prison, like people that are in retirement that maybe want to come back out, even if we really leverage all that diversity, we still are going to be in need.
00:11:15
Speaker
And we're also preparing people for jobs that are not even here yet. So, yeah.
00:11:22
Speaker
I think what I found very interesting as a hirer and as someone who's looking to build their organization. The crazy thing about the past couple of years is those borders really have started to melt away. What's initially, I think, super interesting or what we feel is
00:11:50
Speaker
benefit of being together in cities. We're based in Minneapolis, you're on the East Coast. There's plenty of diversity where we are, but now we're starting to bridge out into places where maybe there isn't as much diversity. And so it's kind of a careful and interesting dance.
00:12:10
Speaker
because now there's no reason why someone that's in a very rural location who might have very different outlooks and or their entire community looks very different
Recognizing and Valuing Diversity within Teams
00:12:22
Speaker
than our community would want to interact and to come work with us. And so as you're looking at DEI, diversity and equity and inclusion, how
00:12:33
Speaker
Can you plan for that? Is it just front-loading and having a more open conversation? How do you set that up for your audience, especially as you're looking to hire?
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that has to happen internally and especially at the highest levels of the organization, right? If those executive leaders or those business owners aren't driving this conversation, it's going to get really easy to kind of push it to the wayside. So, you know, to me, I like to think about, let's look at diversity in the broadest sense because we are surrounded by diversity. And oftentimes, even with the people that we currently work with,
00:13:18
Speaker
we see them in a certain frame, right? And we may not even see all of the great diversity that they bring to the table. So it really starts with yourself, right? And the folks that you work with, what are some parts of my identity that maybe I've kind of pushed aside or haven't really, you know, delved into. When I can understand those different perspectives within me,
00:13:43
Speaker
then I have a much better appreciation of it within you. So I'll give you a real simple example. So my wife and I started our business, and I'm an extrovert, and she's an introvert. And so she likes to say that I'm a microwave, and she's a crock pot. And it's so true. I mean, like, you want popcorn, I'm popping ideas out, cheddar, no cheddar, you know, like, that's how I think.
00:14:05
Speaker
hearing my ideas at the same time you are. Whereas for an introvert, you know, she needs to process and really like think it through and maybe write things out before she's going to give her ideas. And, you know, for me, that would be frustrating. I'd be like, come in, like, don't you have something to share? And it took time to really like appreciate that. No, it's just a different way of processing and that the end result is that when we can bring both
00:14:34
Speaker
of those polarities of energy together, we can come up with really innovative and creative solutions and ideas.
00:14:43
Speaker
So I want to take a step back because I think that's a really illustrative point that we're talking about diversity. I want to have some clarification of terms because I think the concept of DEI is sort of a massive grouping of a lot of massive spectrum of things. So when we're talking about diversity, that's not just race and it's not just gender.
00:15:07
Speaker
What is it? Can you help define what the whole spectrum is? Sure. So I would start right away at the core of who we are, personality. So I just gave an example of introverted, extroverted, big picture thinker, more detail oriented. Those personalities are our first introduction to diversity.
00:15:30
Speaker
So you probably think of your family members or people you grew up with. There are probably some personalities that you clashed with, but you figured out how to deal with it, right? Or you put up barriers so that you didn't have to deal with it.
00:15:43
Speaker
So I always like to say, we already know how to do this. We just have to lean into areas where we're already doing this work. The secondary dimensions or primary dimensions, those are things about ourselves that we can't change, right? So like the way we look, our age, our gender, our sexual orientation, those are things that really form our identity, but it also has a big impact in that it shapes the way other people see you.
00:16:13
Speaker
right, because they whatever stereotypes come with those dimensions, then get kind of projected onto you. The secondary are those things that can change over time, like geographic location, like being from New York, and then coming to the Midwest, very different styles of communication, right?
00:16:35
Speaker
So, you know, when we think about diversity in that way, we start to recognize like, oh, yeah, like we're far more complex than we give ourselves credit for, and we're intersectional beings. So I can't experience the world as just a female or just a Black Latina. I experience the world with all of those things.
Equity in the Workplace
00:16:54
Speaker
So when I can do that for myself, I can better do that for you all, right? And then Trigby, I'm not going to just look at you and see you as just a white male, right? And there's so many other layers to you. I'm also quite handsome. Right, that too.
00:17:16
Speaker
I know very little about equity and I live with a school counselor, so I hear it used all the time. So can you help define what is equity and what all that entails in the workforce?
00:17:28
Speaker
Yes. So, you know, we're all familiar with the term equality and equality really refers to the idea that we were going to get something to help us be able to bridge a gap, that we're all going to get the exact same thing. Right. And so we know that, especially because of history, we all don't maybe need the same thing. Right. That sounds like communism. At least socialism.
00:17:57
Speaker
but it really is meeting people where they're at, right? Giving people what they need. And here's a great example of that. You know, I remember before there was a lot of people like using mobile. There will be a lot of companies that put their applications completely online, completely digital. And so they began to miss a whole cross section of talent of people that didn't necessarily have access to their own personal mobile phone, right? Or have a computer in their home.
00:18:27
Speaker
The other group that we're trying to tap into now are people over 65. If they've retired, maybe they're trying to attract more people that want to come back into the workforce. And that might be a miss if you're only going on, say, Instagram to publicize your job openings or to build that community. It really says, we have to think differently and broadly. One size does not fit all.
00:18:53
Speaker
And so that's where equity comes in, right? I suppose with that, it's not even just different kinds of people, but different
00:19:05
Speaker
ways of interacting with the world, right? So I'm teaching a class for Google and one of the biggest things that we talk about in that one is what people that can't see need from like blog or from like computer readers. So having alt text and images and I'm getting a little nerdy on that stuff of course, but you know, how can you accommodate and
00:19:27
Speaker
get the benefit of these brilliant people that have vastly different interactive worlds than you. Even as far down as people that are colorblind can't see a red or a green button on your website, so how can you plan for that and how can you relay information or how do you work with
00:19:46
Speaker
folks that might be hard of hearing. And so phones are definitely a huge help for that. But is, is there a broad spectrum or as you sit down with the company for the very first time, there's like, well, we need DEI and we understand that it's a
Building a Business Case for DEI
00:20:01
Speaker
big thing. Is there a conversation that you have to kind of level set or how does that first conversation go?
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, so the first conversation is usually about the business case, right? So what is your driving imperative for doing this work? And if the executive team, like I said, if they can articulate that really well, it doesn't matter how many diversity councils or ER employee resource groups you create, you're going to have that tension. So at the top level, what I like to do is talk about what diversity means at a broad sense, right? So they can kind of move away from that box that we want to think in.
00:20:38
Speaker
I really think a lot more broadly about how can diverse thinking actually benefit the company. In what ways can it really drive a competitive advantage and cools isn't open for competitive advantage and you know if your organization is it doing it others will.
00:20:57
Speaker
So if they can articulate that well, what happens is they can now send that message out to the rest of their organization. When you can have an in sync message about this work, you're going to be better able to operationalize what that looks like across departments. And we have lots of different tools for that. But that primary conversation is so important. How does a company start to realize that
00:21:25
Speaker
they need to look at, they need to expand their viewpoint. And what are some indicators that as somebody who's listening to this who might be frustrated in finding new people and finding a wider spectrum of people, what are those people frustrated with right now that they can start, that they can be led to this answer?
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, in terms of the folks that are running the businesses and executive leaders. Yeah. Well, I think number one is what does the data show you?
00:22:00
Speaker
If you're looking at your employees and your customers, what are the demographics look like? Are you reaching folks in every demographic? Where are their blind spots? When you look at your employees internally, especially those that have been there for a long time, what does that look like in terms of diversity? Are you starting to maybe promote from within folks that think similarly?
00:22:29
Speaker
Have you recruited all from the same industry? Thinking broadly like that really helps you to say, oh, well, yeah, actually, we do need someone that has a perspective on working with multicultural communities because we don't have anyone on the team that has that.
Creating an Inclusive Work Environment
00:22:49
Speaker
Now, where I think folks get tripped up is they think, oh, well, that means that just because you're a Black person or a person of color, you're going to get that job.
00:22:58
Speaker
That's not what I said. What I said is, do you have experience building relationships with multicultural communities? That could be someone of any race, right? And so we have to think about what is the value that people are bringing to the table in terms of perspective, especially. Yeah. We skipped over the last part of DEI, which is inclusion. So can you help define what is that? What does it mean? And how are people affected by that?
00:23:27
Speaker
Yes. Well, you know, just in comparison, diversity is about just all the ways that we're different and the same, right? And equity is about giving people what they need to have access. Then inclusion is all about what happens when you have all these people, right? How do you create an environment where they can feel like they can bring their best to the table?
00:23:48
Speaker
Because if you've done all this work, you hate to have a revolving door. And that's what many organizations are dealing with because they go right to recruitment instead of really understanding, is my environment actually going to cultivate these folks? Are they going to thrive when they come into the organization? So if you're an all-female organization,
00:24:11
Speaker
and you bring a male on board, you can't just say, well, hey, you know, gender doesn't matter. I mean, we're just going to continue to do everything the same. Yet there may be some places where that's going to be different. Like, for example, maybe the guy continues to get called every time there's something to get heavy to get picked up. Right. So there's research that kind of shows that happens to me. There you go. And so that's a huge blind spot. Like if you live and breathe that culture, you don't even realize that.
00:24:41
Speaker
And so you have to be open to where those blind spots might be and willing to find solutions so that everyone can come to the table and bring their best. I think the natural inclination as somebody who needs to do this and just listen to what you had to say would be that that sounds exhausting and I don't want to do any of that. So it's harder and it's different.
00:25:10
Speaker
But what are the benefits of having alternative viewpoints? We talked a little bit about competitive advantage. What does that really look like as an advantage for a company? Well, first of all, talent. We know that it's in demand and top talent is in demand.
00:25:29
Speaker
And but there's only but so much of top talent to go around. So number one, if you want to be that organization or that company that can bring those great thinkers, those folks that are going to bring those different perspectives to the table, you have to be attractive. And we already know from the data that younger generations, they want to see organizations that are actually delivering on their values.
00:25:53
Speaker
differently than maybe Baby Boomers and Gen Xers might be used to. So it means that in order to get that talent to come in, we've got to give them what they want or create that place that they really want to work in.
00:26:07
Speaker
There's data that also shows that when you have diversity of race and gender on your board, that you're gonna see on average about 30% increase in profit. You're also going to be a lot better able to move into emerging markets. I mean, the data is fantastic and it's been coming out the past few years because folks have been looking at this over time. And the data really shows if you want to be competitive and you wanna stay in the game,
00:26:37
Speaker
You got to look at this, right? And to me, it's more than just a compelling, like, this is the right thing to do.
Continual Learning and Reducing Polarization
00:26:45
Speaker
To me, it's also like, if you want to be good at business, this is a business strategy. I love that. So once companies get through that first, through the looking glass and they realize, okay, this is something I need to consider, how do they go about changing the game?
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah. So first is getting educated, right? Like I always say start with a Google. There's so much out there on Google that you can find and that you can learn. There's people teaching on different social media platforms. So each individual should really take advantage of trying to learn as much as they can. So if we take it back to technology, you know, if we think about back in the day, I don't know about you all, but I know I took typewriting in high school.
00:27:32
Speaker
You see the technology that we have to live and breathe all day today. What happened between then and now? I didn't just sit back and go, oh, well, I'll just catch up with it when I can. I had to do a lot to upskill myself or else I wouldn't be really competitive. That's what we have to do with diversity is we really have to learn about other cultures, especially of those that you want to build partnerships with.
00:28:01
Speaker
right? Because people will appreciate that you've done your homework and you want to get to know folks more. But don't stop at Google, right? You got to actually bring it to real life experiences and having the connections like Trigby. I mean, we met because, you know, I needed help in my business and you were doing mentorship for small business owners. And like you shared knowledge with me that I would never have had. I'm a first generation college student. You know, my parents are immigrants, so they don't know a lot of
00:28:31
Speaker
So, you know, we need to have more of that, those crossover interactions so that we can start to learn those unwritten rules. In an environment that we live in right now, as we're recording this, it's sort of the end of 2022 in the holiday season. And it seems like the country is basically splitting in two and in people who agree with me and then people who don't agree with me. So how can
00:29:01
Speaker
How can we turn that down a little by looking and listening to the other people? Yeah, I think to begin with, we have to accept that not everybody's going to believe exactly the same thing that we believe. And sometimes it's a matter of we may want to get to the same end goal, but we have different ways of doing it. So I think we have to learn how to make space for people to believe more than one thing.
00:29:31
Speaker
And until we can figure that out, we're going to struggle because really, are we ever going to get to a place where everybody agrees? No. And the more diverse we are as a country, you know, the continued those polarities were going to be. But we may have to think differently in our society about how do we make space for both to exist?
00:29:54
Speaker
How do we live in that polarity space where we're not killing each other but we're actually utilizing it to get to the other side to create solutions and innovations that really help all of us.
00:30:06
Speaker
It feels like maybe that's one place where business could actually help because as business owners, especially small business, we can pivot and we can just open our doors.
Aligning DEI with Organizational Values
00:30:16
Speaker
We can connect. We can encourage more than one opinion, more than one thing. I mean, certainly if you, whether you're on CNBC or Fox News on a daily basis, as far as what your media diet is,
00:30:30
Speaker
that's very polarizing and realizing that they make their money by making people angry. And so as business owners, it'd be great if more folks were very thoughtful about, you know what, we're all in this together. And not only is it a smart
00:30:51
Speaker
like money move or profit move for me to have better people that have different opinions and different insights. But it's also just smart to have more people and to have a bigger pool to pull from. That's right. So it feels like this DEI is not just a competitive advantage, but maybe it's a social advantage.
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah, I love that I heard an interesting turn of phrase for that sort of fox newsification that that it's it's called the entertainment Wow, right. Yeah so If I understand that correctly What we're trying to say is that two things can be true at the same time Yeah, yeah, I can hire somebody who doesn't believe what I believe religiously politically
00:31:46
Speaker
but they can help my business grow in ways that I might not understand unless I give them the chance to do that. Yeah, and I think what's going to drive it are values.
00:31:58
Speaker
Right. So if you think about the values of the organization, why do we create those first? Because they are the foundation. They should serve as the filter by which we're getting to the end product. Right. And so when I'm interviewing someone, I want to understand whether their values are aligned. How you got them could look completely different. Right. Like having a really strong work ethic. You could be born and raised in rural Kansas or the middle of New York City and have a strong work ethic.
00:32:29
Speaker
Right. And so that's where we have to really go back to what do we value? What's important to us in terms of what people are going to bring to the table? What do you want that customer experience to be like? And then you identify those folks and you don't get dissuaded by the things like, Oh, I can't pronounce their name. Oh, I'm not going to call them back. Little things like that can kind of stop you from getting the exact right person you need for that role.
00:32:57
Speaker
Maybe that's why people aren't calling me back because they're afraid of mispronouncing my name. Maybe. I think one of the things that I've experienced being and selling for as long as I have is that there's a big distinction in business where people either want to be right or they want to be successful. Yeah. And being right makes you lonely.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yes, but you're right. Thinking about things differently can get you to be more successful in ways that you don't understand inclusion is a great first step. So I'm sorry, I talked over you a little. No, I was going to say at one point it was right to believe that the world was flat.
00:33:46
Speaker
Right. So we just got to catch up with the world. And when we're talking about competing viewpoints, I think there is still a cap on these these kind of things. Right. So we as we're recording this, we're living through the era of Kyrie Irving. We're living through Kanye West, who's
00:34:11
Speaker
going, I don't know in which way. There's an appreciation for tolerance, but there is a limit to that, right? Being open to new things doesn't mean that you should violate your own personal integrity or your own value system.
00:34:30
Speaker
That's exactly right. Right. And that's where the values really should should drive your actions. And you have to stay aligned with it no matter what. You know, like we can't say, oh, because I really like Will Smith. It's OK that he got that he slapped Chris Rock. You know, like you got to kind of figure out like what's what's where the ethics lie. Right. And how do we create safety for that for
00:34:59
Speaker
diverse viewpoints to exist. And when you start to go beyond a line where people no longer feel safe, to me, that's where you draw the line. And I hate that term because safety is so misconstrued as feeling like you're somehow in danger. It's really not a question of danger as much as somebody just needs to be heard. Correct.
00:35:23
Speaker
Exactly. And people make fun. Oh, you know, everybody needs a safe space. Everybody needs a snowflake. No, they don't. They need to be heard and they need to be valued as an individual. That's right. It's almost more like there's a pursuit of, as Trigvey said before, you know, there's pursuit of being right or a pursuit of, you know, my safety and my feelings. But probably more importantly, there's pursuit of the actual truth.
00:35:53
Speaker
and or pursuit of the common goal of an organization for sure, right? So our goal is to feed all of the families that show up to work every day.
00:36:07
Speaker
of the people that show up to work every day. So there's a lot that goes into that and that we can enjoy from multiple perspectives and know who cares what gender people identify as, what color they are, what culture they're from, what beliefs they have, as long as we're all working toward the same thing in order to accomplish what our core goal is.
00:36:32
Speaker
I think it's important as we set up that goal, however, that the goal is worthy of
00:36:40
Speaker
moving forward, right? So if we just all get together and say, you know what, I'm Dave, I'm the president of busy web. I really want a new car next year. So if we could all work a little harder, I don't care who we hire, but I just need more money. That's not something that's going to get people excited, right? That's right. So I'm assuming when you have conversations with companies that are looking for help with DEI,
00:37:02
Speaker
that the goal is probably a little bit more altruistic than just cash, right? Correct. Definitely. And you know, one of the things that I like to do early on is talk to them about different approaches to DEI that are value driven.
00:37:19
Speaker
for example, one approach is social justice. And after the murder of George Floyd, that's, you know, a lot of people were kind of awakened to this work through social justice. So that's the only frame that they have. And so for some employees, when their company said, hey, we're doing DEI work, and they weren't showing up at protests or, you know, doing specific things to move legislation, that would be, you know, contention, that would be conflict.
00:37:47
Speaker
So that's one approach. The next approach is on building competence. So this is really focusing on individuals being able to upskill in their cultural competence, understanding different perspectives, understanding how to build trust across communities.
00:38:04
Speaker
A third is honoring dignity. So I worked with a hospice organization and their values were all about honoring dignity. So you can imagine the diversity work that they did look different than building competence because they had to get deep. Like they had to understand what people's idea of death is, you know, how do they, how does their culture identify grief? What does it look like? The fourth one is developing the organization.
00:38:31
Speaker
So that's when you're focused on the systems and practices. And then the last is being in compliance, right? And so like I think about one organization who employed people that had a lot, you know, had a lot of different languages spoken. And one of the challenges is that, you know, a lot of them were like driving heavy machinery and safety was of utmost importance. So they needed to make sure that everybody, no matter what language you spoke,
00:38:59
Speaker
understood the same thing about safety, right? So that's where compliance was actually a good thing for them to work towards. So it gives people a lot more choices to align their DEI work with the values of the organization and then be aligned in their messaging to the employees and to the community so that, you know, you're not standing back later like, Oh, you know, we jumped into this and it's really not aligned with who we are.
Training and Future of DEI Practitioners
00:39:28
Speaker
Right. We are seeing a lot more companies that are stepping up and being public and being very vocal about what they believe. With the whole Twitter debacle, again, we're at the end of 2022 here. There's a lot of companies that are pulling back from advertising because they don't believe in some of the things that the owner is doing. Right.
00:39:50
Speaker
So being public about that and making a stand is part of supporting the communities that you serve. That's right. That's exactly right. Your work at the Diversity Institute is changing a little from being just a consultant for large companies into actually starting to train people on how to get into diversity, inclusion and equity as a field.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yes, yes. Unpack that a little. How are you helping to create a new career path for this? Awesome. Well, I'm so excited about this. I started my career 20 years ago, and really, the jobs that I took in the early part of my career, they were all new positions. So I was often stepping into a role that had never existed before.
00:40:43
Speaker
And so, you know, I was oftentimes by myself trying to figure out like, OK, what are the models that are going to work? Like, how do I influence without authority? And what I know now is that there are people just like me all across the country scratching their heads and like testing things out. But we hadn't yet had the connection, that broader network and community where we could learn from one another.
00:41:06
Speaker
So, you know, it was very common to just feel like you're the only one, and that's really hard. Even when you do find success, sometimes it's really hard won, like you've had to step in a lot of landmines. And so after George Floyd, one of the things that happened was that we saw a 50% increase in DEI roles. So organizations began creating DEI roles specifically to start looking at all of the challenges that we've talked about in the show today.
00:41:35
Speaker
And the challenge with that is that many folks, number one, there isn't a lot of good education that will train a practitioner, right? That's still being developed. And there's also not a whole lot of community support.
00:41:50
Speaker
Right. So you have people that are passionate about diversity, stepping into these roles and then being asked to basically do it, make a miracle happen. Right. Which is like, I get rid of all of these barriers that are in place. The typical average turnover for DEI practitioners is 18 months. That's how long a person stays in the role. And many times they're burnt out or they're just, they know that they've taken the organization as far as the organization's willing to go.
00:42:20
Speaker
And the really challenging thing with that is that once you get that a person leaves, it kind of dies down, right? The diversity work that was happening. Then when you want to look at it again and bring someone in, you have to build that momentum all over again. But now your employees distrust you.
00:42:42
Speaker
because they've seen it not work, right? So it almost starts to, it becomes more and more complex the longer you wait or the less you are consistent with your work.
00:42:55
Speaker
So with that said, I wanted to create a program that was really going to help practitioners hit the ground running, right? To give them those hard-won lessons and strategies and best practices that I've gleaned over the years. And so in 2022, I've been piloting this class and it's had a lot of great success. And I'm excited to launch it again, January 12th.
00:43:23
Speaker
And the whole idea is to really build standards around what we're teaching our practitioners so that they can be successful in these roles. And if somebody is interested in learning more about that, where can they find it? They can go to www.stantonaddams.com. And I'd love to hear from folks too. If you've got questions on DEI, I love talking. And there's not a question that I haven't heard, so don't even feel shy.
00:43:52
Speaker
Is there an end game for this kind of work or is this something that is just always going to be more and more prevalent?
00:44:00
Speaker
I liken it to finance. There was a time when organizations didn't have CFOs, and then they realized, hmm, we probably do a lot better. We'd be more strategic if we had someone that was overseeing that. And did it go, did everybody's individual responsibility go away? No. In fact, we want to make sure we're employing people that are going to be good with their budgets and manage them well. But it doesn't get rid of that CFO.
00:44:30
Speaker
Right. That CFO is still needed to be there because they are the subject matter expert. They're the ones that are going to bring that strategic thinking that are going to have their eye on what are some of the legal risks that might come up and have ways to really build that competitive advantage. So I actually see more organizations building in the diversity officer role. And my, also my secret is I think that diversity officers are really in line to be CEOs.
00:45:00
Speaker
Usually, diversity people are the ones that have to understand every single department. Then they have to learn the data that goes with everyone. Then they have to learn how to influence everyone so that everybody could get on the same page. Well, hey, if we actually were more strategic in their development and said, yeah, let's start creating this pathway to the CEO or to the C-suite,
00:45:28
Speaker
I think that would be amazing and I think these are the candidates that are untapped. Wow. That makes a ton of sense. I mean, especially when you look at the different ways that you need to pull everything together. I mean, what better role to synthesize the entirety of the need of the organization and that also leads right into leadership.
00:45:47
Speaker
Exactly. And to be able to individually influence all a whole spectrum of people. Yes. To think differently. And how powerful if the diversity and inclusion expert is in charge of the organization going
Closing Remarks and Contact Information
00:46:03
Speaker
forward. I mean, that sends a powerful message. Yes. Wow. Exactly.
00:46:08
Speaker
I feel like we've barely scratched the surface and we've barely got into this. I feel like we could go on for another four hours. But every time I talk to you Cecilia, I always feel like I get a little bit smarter and a little bit smarter. Once again, if anybody has any interest in this, where can they find you if they want to learn more about this? If they want to have you come in to help consult? If they want to take your class?
00:46:34
Speaker
I know we just said it, but let's do it again because I think the world needs more of people like you. Thank you so much. Folks can come see me at www.stantonadams.com. You can always find me on LinkedIn, Cecilia Stanton Adams. Come check me out, see what I'm up to. I always like to post the things that I'm doing and the projects that I'm working on. Love to hear from you.
00:47:00
Speaker
Right. And if I'm seeing this right, the company in LinkedIn, if you go, it's the Diversity Institute, correct? Yes. The Diversity Institute powered by Sam Adams. You're exactly right. Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us, Cecilia. And hopefully the world will get a little quieter and listen to you a little bit more in the coming year. Thank you so much, Bigby and Dave. It was great being here.