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SPECIAL EPISODE! The Title Challengers Talk It Out!
13 Plays1 month ago
In a special episode of the Daily Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester City podcasts, GSPN brings you a discussion between the three big teams in this years race, where form, predictions and required reinforcements are all discussed in a bumper episode!
Host : Jesse Sarwar
Guests : Josh Vince, Jack Ward
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Transcript
Introduction and Premier League Return
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Daily Liverpool podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. I'm your host today, Jesse Sawa. And well, it should be the Friday forecast show, but as you're aware, I'm sure it's that pesky international break. So no club football this weekend. The Premier League returns the following weekend.
Title Race Contenders Discussed
00:00:30
Speaker
So today we're going to be looking at the teams that we think will be in the thick of a title race between now and the end of the season. Now, unfortunately, the guys at the Daily Nottingham Forest and Daily Chelsea podcast shows just couldn't make it today. So I'm going to have to make it do with ah Josh, the Daily Arsenal team, and Jack from the Daily Manchester City team. And guys, we'll just pretend that your teams are in the title race. Are these shots being fired from Anfield here?
Guest Introductions and Team Banter
00:00:58
Speaker
Josh, how's it going, mate? You know, I was having a very pleasant morning, actually, until that little comment there. I mean, do you know what? When you actually play some decent teams, we'll see how things line up. But, ah you know, what, we're 11 games in, ah still a good third of the season's gut, two thirds, we're fine. I'm feeling all right. I'm feeling good. It's a fair point, Josh, because we have played United, so... yeah um Jack, how's it going, mate?
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's good. Josh, I wish I'd be here under better circumstances. But you know what, Josh, I'll just say to Jesse, he's probably not used to being in a title race for the last couple of seasons now, as you've been able to do head and head. So we'll let him have his kicks and giggles. Yeah. I mean, the Covid season, does it really count anyway? So, you know, I have fun with this one. You've got the flow to just coming in left and right
Team Assessments and Predictions
00:01:46
Speaker
there. OK, so this episode will assess how each team has done so far this season, their strengths and weaknesses. Look at the managers, maybe talk about what kind of business each team may need to do during the January transfer window. And then a season prediction. Where are we all going to finish? I'm going to start off by asking you both, where did you predict yourselves finishing?
00:02:11
Speaker
the start of the season and who did you think your main challenger would be for the title? Well I'm going to start with myself now first. I'm going to say that um we had a pre-season podcast on the Daily Liverpool and I said that Mansi were favourites and I think that they would win it but I thought that we would be their closest challenger and that we'd probably finish second and I had asked in third. Josh. Yeah. What do you want?
00:02:45
Speaker
um No, we similarly had a predictions episode. And I'm ashamed to say, considering that it was an Arsenal podcast, I did not have Arsenal to win it. I did, in fact, put City to win this year, I thought they would steamroller yet again. I mean, the injury to Roger obviously was brutal and has been more impactful than I think anybody would have imagined but I still had them to win it I had us coming second and Liverpool coming third yeah so kind of a polar opposite to you Jesse but ah city to win it I did say
00:03:21
Speaker
Jack, do we need to ask you? and Well, to be fair, you know what, i'll I'll say that my predictions last year was I thought Arsenal were going to win the title last year because I was so uncomfortable of anyone doing four in a row. But because we went and did that, I said at the start of the season, I think five in a row will be slightly less of a mental challenge to overcome than breaking that first barrier of doing four in a row that no one else had done. So I did have always finishing first this year.
00:03:50
Speaker
I can't remember who I had out of Arsenal or Liverpool. I probably would have given some more credit to Arsenal. Just don't even think about the rest. I could have been one of 19 teams. I'm not really sure. I bet it was Fulham or something like that, wouldn't it? It was crazy. You know what's crazy? I had possibly the worst shell anyone had on GSPN this season in my season predictions. I had Fulham going down.
00:04:14
Speaker
We made that video when they'd signed Emile Smith-Roe and no one else and lost. Hyena, they'd lost all these big key players. That has come back to bite me, so I'm hoping that you guys won't give me any more stick than I've had already. We have actually done the full-on crossover already, and they let me hear it. If there's any consolation, I said Darwin Nunez was going to be the top goal scorer. Early days, as you said.
Listener Engagement and Predictions Request
00:04:46
Speaker
Well, if you're listening to the podcast, you know, tell us your thoughts. Where do you think Liverpool will will finish this season? And who do you see as the main challenges? Send us a voice note with your views.
Liverpool's Squad Analysis
00:04:58
Speaker
Send it to us at GSPNDailyLiverpool.gmail dot.com and we'll play the best one in our next episode.
00:05:06
Speaker
All right, let's talk Liverpool, Jack's favourite topic. um How do you think they've done so far this season? Are you surprised by their start, Jack? um You know what? I don't know if I'm surprised by their start because there's always been a great team there in Liverpool with the players that they've got in the first team. Maybe the depth isn't as great, but in recent years, they've really upped that depth.
00:05:32
Speaker
So they've got a very coherent squad at the moment. What has surprised me most, and I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit later, is Arnie Slott. He's just been so impressive. And what I've really found most impressive about him is the way he talks and the way he carries himself and in the media, in the post-match interviews. and And you see that if he's like that to the media, then that obviously translates in the dressing room. And and you can tell that there's a brilliant cohesion between him and the players, and and they really understand him. so it's it's not impressed me having heard slot how they're doing because it just makes sense really. and Obviously the the tally is is a bit surprising given that the form in recent years because they they look to be playing such fantastic football and and and they look to be
00:06:18
Speaker
uncatchable at this point, and which is kind of strange saying that with just a five point lead. But they have had their blips, you know, that that loss against forest at home is has shown maybe some cracks, but maybe we should be giving some more respect to to fly in forest at the moment. and But no, I don't think it's been surprising that start to the season. I think that anyone that writes off Liverpool in any season, no matter who's managing them, is a fool. So I think it's it's fair to say that Liverpool are where they deserve to be at the moment. Josh, your thoughts?
00:06:48
Speaker
Yeah, I do actually kind of have to, I got to echo a lot of what Jack said there, honestly. ah The one thing you said about depth, that has really impressed me this year. Like you look at the, you look at the subs bench for any Liverpool game and it might not be world beta names, but they are all solid players. And also the, the way that slots developing certain players as well, like Gravenbert just come on, like leaps and bounds. He was, he was a bit lost under the clock last year, I think it's fair to say, but now is,
00:07:18
Speaker
these immovable in that starting lineup even Curtis Jones who I've always rated as a player I've always liked him as a player but he seems to be flying and it seems to be a stable figurehead at the top of the club and I loved the clock years I'm not gonna lie my dad's a Liverpool fan so I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Liverpool I've really enjoyed the clock times and just the chaos that came with it but I think after so much chaos a little bit of calm and sort of steadiness is exactly what Liverpool need.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's interesting. um I remember the start of the season, you had a lot of pundits, ex-players, Gary Neville comes to mind. That's never a good thing. And so you know what, look, I've got to say, I do ah like Gary Neville in the sense I i i like watching him. I think he's he's um he's a good watch. But I think when he when he talks about united, he's he's borderline delusional. You know, it he just cannot get those rose-tinted spectacles off when he's talking about United. And I remember at the start of the season, hes he predicted a big drop-off for Liverpool.
00:08:28
Speaker
that we wouldn't make the top four and that United would finish above Liverpool. Now, apart from it just being a wrong assessment, I just found it really surprising that Neville would say that because this is the guy that's been, he's been banging on about there being no structure at United and blaming every failure that a manager goes through on this kind of haphazard style of football, going from manager to manager,
00:08:56
Speaker
different styles of play, buying players that are just really individuals that don't really fit into any kind of particular playing style. And I agreed with him. But then Liverpool do have a very solid football structure. Recruitment is pretty spot on nine times out of 10. Each department knows exactly what they're doing. And Liverpool clearly went through a kind of rigorous process in terms of recruitment in identifying Slott as the right man um you know to to take over from Klopp. He clearly has a skill set. I mean, the personality to take over from Klopp
00:09:31
Speaker
you know you You have to be a really kind of solid individual and really have confidence in yourself. ah You can walk into that dressing room and command some respect because those are players that won everything in the game likes of salah van dyke.
00:09:48
Speaker
Alison, that kind of senior leadership team as Liverpool called them, they've won everything in the game and you can't just walk in and not command respect. It's going to be the same for Man City when Guardiola leaves after the guilty verdict. The next manager that comes in, he's going to have to command that kind of respect. So you've got to give that ah respect to Slott. Jack's giving me real daggers now.
00:10:16
Speaker
um So, where so um Josh, you you mentioned Summer Liverpool's strengths. Brian Gravenberg has been one of them. An absolute revelation this season. We went after Zuber Mendy quite big in the summer. Yeah. We didn't get him. And you know there was a real kind of worry for Liverpool fans because we are a bit light in midfield. We're one big injury away from it not being very good.
00:10:44
Speaker
And so Gravenberg coming in has been a real plus for Slott. Oh yeah, 100%. He always had talent. Where did he come from again? Where was it you lifted him from? Was it Germany somewhere? Yeah, it was Bayern. Bayern, yeah. like He always had a lot of potential with Kid. It's just, I think he needed, again, sort of like we said a little second ago, that structure that Slott brings, that calm collectiveness.
00:11:10
Speaker
that um allowed him the ability to thrive in a position a little bit deeper than what Klopp was forcing him into, I think, and sort of just gave him more of a purpose on the pitch and his transitional play this year, like the way that he turns and moves into space, which no one can bloody see on the pitch, is remarkable. I do, well, we quickly talk about transfers, have to thank Liverpool very briefly because Liverpool are responsible for Arsenal's biggest selling fee ever in Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. We've never sold a player for more than £35m and Liverpool were the schmucks who paid £35m for Alex Oxlade, so thank you for that one. yeah We didn't do too badly in that period though. No, you did all right. That name brings just terror to me because every time I hear that name it's just a strange dagger at Anfield and I can never get over it.
00:12:02
Speaker
Poor guy, he suffered a really bad injury. I think it was actually in that Champions League game against City, I think it was, where he did his ACL, which um really did for him. um But I think in that in if we look at so the January transfer window window that's coming up,
00:12:20
Speaker
I think in the one area that, from a Liverpool but perspective, that we do need to bolster is is midfield. I think we're really well set up front. I think we've got five really, really top quality attacking players in, obviously, you've got Salah, Nunes, Diaz, Gackpo and Jota. And if Kiesa can, you know, can get a game in,
00:12:47
Speaker
ah You know, we'd have six very good forwards. I think the back line is pretty solid as well. ah Goalkeeping, we've got absolutely no issues there. it I mean, Alison, for me, I know Jack might might have an opinion on on Edison, but for me, Alison is, at the very least, he' is one of the top three goalkeepers in the world. in My opinion is the best keeper in the world, but I'd happily concede he's top three in the world. I completely agree, by the way. I do think he's the best keeper in the world.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think he is. I think, um and Kelleher is, well, I mean, as ah as a backup goalkeeper, we've we've done really well with that. I'm really sorry to interrupt quickly. Between the two of you, between Kelleher and Ortega, who's got the better number two? You know what's funny? We actually had this conversation, the exact conversation on a pod a few weeks ago, and whether it was the Irish in him, but yeah we our very own Keelan McNamara,
00:13:40
Speaker
conceded that he thinks Kelleher is the best number two in the league. I was on the the wavelength that Stefan Ortega is just for some of his heroics that he pulled off at the last end and the back end of last season. But I'm quite happy to to concede whatever because I do think Kelleher is a fantastic keeper, obviously a lot younger. Is he is he what, 25 now? Yeah, I think it's 26 now. I've just personally not seen that much from him.
00:14:05
Speaker
and I know we played a good run of games this season and last season, and you know, covering for Alisson, but either or, after I think we're pretty lucky in our number two spots. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And in terms of our back line, I really wanted Liverpool to go for Calfiore. He's cracking. he You know, I just think that we do well with players that can, that they're quite adaptable, that they can play in a centre back or a four back position.
00:14:33
Speaker
um But having said that, you know, Simakas has actually stepped up. I wasn't a huge fan of Simakas. I thought that he was a decent sub. i would't I didn't trust him to be a starter. He's actually stepped up this season. So I think that could be a real ah boost for us um ah moving forward. So where are we finishing, um guys? I'm i'm still um still looking at City as being the
Liverpool vs. City: Title Race Discussion
00:15:00
Speaker
favourites. I know Five Points is a good lead.
00:15:02
Speaker
It's a good day, but I don't think it's enough. 11 games in. I think if it's five get five points with 11 games to go, then that's a completely different story. But 11 games in, five points. I'm not going to say it's nothing. I'm very happy to be five points top of the table, but I'm still looking at City as being favorites. But I'm going to stick my neck out and say that we're going to win it.
00:15:24
Speaker
OK, OK, OK, moving on. What do you reckon, Josh? Are you going to change that? um No, no, no, I think I know everybody's saying it. Every fan is not a Liverpool fan of saying at some point they have to drop off. Yeah, at some point you have to drop off. It's true.
00:15:46
Speaker
And, you know, Erdegaard's just coming back. ah City will reinforce in January as well. It looks like Zoo of Mendy's most likely on the way there. I'm really sorry, Jesse, but I'm going to stick with third. I think i think there's going to be a monumental shift in 2025. It's my 30th year of life, and the least Arsenal could do is something special at last. So, yeah, so sorry, Jesse, third. What about you, Jack? and You know what? I'm going to tell you a brilliant optimism and I'm going to carry it over. I'm going to say that we are going to come back in 2025 stronger. and I don't know why you're celebrating.
00:16:25
Speaker
i think I think we're going to come around and we're going to figure it out because if there's one thing I've learned ah with Pep at City in his tenure, it's to never underestimate this team and never underestimate what he's capable of of whipping out at times. And and we've been in some quote unquote crisis before, you know, three games with no without winning three games it is our previous crisis. and So it's hard to say that we've been in in tough times, but he has definitely turned around bad times at City and and I'll never ever underestimate what he's capable of. I do think well this is probably a rare season for us in that we're probably going into January now and we've probably never been so reliant on a big transfer coming in since La Porte came in to save our season a few years ago so you have to get
00:17:16
Speaker
I think two or three players in January. But if we can get to January and and still be within the top three there or thereabouts, if it's maybe seven or less points, then I think we'll i think we'll come back and do it.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, look, up and that's why I've said that City are still favourites. I just think that it's not just City. I think i think champions, that's what they I remember the United teams, they would kick on in the second half of the season, clawback points, deficits, and that's just what they do because you know they've they've been there, they've done it, that's what that's what champions do. But so I think that after the international break, I think that those two sets of fixtures are going to be really interesting. um As soon as we come back, we've got um we're a way to Saints, Liverpool, a way to Southampton, City are home to Spurs and Arsenal home to Forest. And then the week after... There's no game the week after, there is no game for us the week after.
00:18:18
Speaker
A week after, West Ham at home to Arsenal and then Liverpool versus City. I mean, i mean it goes either way and it's it's just going to be huge, isn't it? It's going to be huge. I think i think if if there's one solace that we can take into that game, it's probably the first time in a very long time, since maybe before even Klopp was here, that we're going to Anfield with very few expectations.
00:18:44
Speaker
It's been rare that this Liverpool team has been seen as significantly more dominant than we are form wise. We've always gone to Anfield in strong enough form and got pretty much ah a gut punch and a reality kick in that Liverpool were always right still there.
00:19:00
Speaker
This time we're coming in, it's weird to say, very much the underdogs on the form table. So I think that maybe we can use that lack of pressure to maybe pull something out of the bag. But the last time I was at Anfield was that game when Salah spun Cancello, his last game for City. And yeah, let's just say... um me feel with knee Yeah, not a very fond memory to that. so That's a great memory.
Podcast Platform Mention
00:19:25
Speaker
Okay, look, time to go to a very short break. When we come back, we'll turn our attention to Man City. Here at Global Sports Podcast Network, we spent a lot of time selecting our delivery platform. Zencaster came out the clear winner.
00:19:43
Speaker
with 4K video recording from your phone and AI editing that automatically removes all those ums and r's, it's super easy to start a podcast that sounds great and is delivered efficiently. If you're ready to tell your story, check out the link in the show description to learn more about Zencaster.
00:20:06
Speaker
OK, welcome back. Let's talk Man City.
Man City's Injury Struggles
00:20:09
Speaker
Jack, give us a ah city perspective on how your team has done so far. Well, it's interesting because we started the season without Roger and we played three games on the bounce where we looked like we never really needed him. Since then, Roger had come back and and obviously done his ACL against Arsenal. And now we look like a team who desperately need Roger.
00:20:31
Speaker
So I don't know whether the that start to the season was a bit of an anomaly, but we had a really coherent midfield without him in it. But losing both Roger and Kevin De Bruyne in that midfield has lost us a significant ability in games which you've seen ex exposed nowadays. in Take the b Brighton game, for example, at the weekend.
00:20:54
Speaker
We went into that game and in that half time, 1-0 up and then around 72 minutes, I think it was Jau Pedro equalised. From then on, Brighton are playing essentially with 12 men because the Amex was just absolutely roaring. It was a cauldron and what we had the ability to do with Rodry and KDB and these elite technicians in our team was to pass them to death and kill off the game completely, kill off that momentum, get it down to the 80th minute or something and the atmosphere in the stadium is no longer what it used to be and then we could go on the front foot, start attacking from a neutral standpoint and maybe get a late winner or at least end the game 1-0 but without Rodry,
00:21:36
Speaker
you know that equalizer goes in we lose the control and we're starting to get peppered on the counter again and from that point it's so much more difficult to fight that uphill battle we've seen it with them with Bournemouth as well ah the week prior You know, we, yeah, Josh, you know all too well. In our pre-match pod for the Bournemouth game, you know, we were talking about, or it got mentioned that, oh, after that loss of Spurs, it's nice to go to Bournemouth, you know, considered an easier game. I said, not a chance. Going to the Vitality Stadium is absolutely horrible.
00:22:11
Speaker
the pitch is small the fact that stadium is tiny it's so close the fans are so close to the pitch it's a cauldron so going to there after a loss was was horrendous and we've seen it in the stats we we conceded six big chances against Bournemouth that's the most we've conceded in a Premier League game for two years since that and horrible loss to Brentford at home so we what we've lost with these injuries now won't put too much emphasis on the injury crisis that were happening because it happens to every team but what we've lost is that control and that ability to kill off stadiums which is which is why our away form has been so poor this season at home we're still fine because we can get behind the team but you know we're looking at it now as a significant disadvantage and and what else has kind of impacted the way that we've played is that we're just not as
00:23:01
Speaker
energetic, is physical as as we have been last season. If you look at the stats last season, we were fifth in the league for sprints, player sprints per 90. For a possession-based team who held about 65% of the ball each game last year, to be still placed fifth in the league for sprints per 90 and top for and distance covered in the Premier League is monumental.
00:23:27
Speaker
if i told you that we were 20th in the league for sprints this season it helped surprise you because it just looks like we're not running we're not chasing we're 10th in the league for distance covered we're not covering half as much distance so it just feels like there's a lack of maybe energy, maybe motivation. It's hard to kind of pinpoint motivation, but if you look at stats like that, you kind of see it dripping out on the pitch. you know The experienced players are not really up to it this season, and that's drip feeding down. There's a lot of pressure on these young players that are coming in who aren't actually playing too bad, but
00:24:05
Speaker
young players will always be prone to mistakes, and we're seeing that exposed more because these experienced players, these older players, are looking a little bit sluggish, a little bit past it. Kyle Walker, Ilkay Gundogan have just not been up to it this season, and that's kind of really been affecting players like Rico Lewis, you know, the young lad, Jamay Simpson-Pusey, who came in and sent it back for a couple of games. He actually had a good game against Brighton, but conceded two goals right at the death, so no one's looking at that as ah as a good performance. So there's a lot that's gone wrong this season, and I do think that A lot of it can be pinpointed down to not necessarily the injuries, but the fact that we've not got the first choice starting 11 or at least the the the makings of our first choice starting 11 on the pitch. But I do think that there's a motivation issue this year and Pep's going to have to turn something around in December, January time.
00:24:52
Speaker
Were you surprised and when Gundogan came back? and We were all buzzing, to be honest with you. We all never wanted him to leave. We all thought that it was a shooing that he would get that two-year contract extension because he didn't want to leave. He was just not getting offered what he wanted. He had young kids that he wanted security for ah with them starting school. So when he come back, it it was great. He'd had a fantastic season at Barcelona, in my opinion. I thought he was one of their better midfielders in La Liga last year. and but like it or not, he's an absolute legend for us. He's been poor this season. How old is he now? 33, 10 and 34 this year, I think. i And it just looks like his legs have gone a little bit. And I think that's exposed even more with the fact that we've got Kovacic at DM holding that singular pin, who's not exactly the greatest runner off the ball. When he gets the ball and picks it up, he's fantastic. But defensive wise, that is a big gap where Roger was.
00:25:52
Speaker
It's interesting. yeah I think you made a couple of really interesting points. One about, um obviously, the yeah the obvious one being Rodri, but how it then... I don't want to say expose, it sounds really harsh, but it just puts more spotlight on some of the other players like can do and who probably won't wouldn't be as maybe under the spotlight if Rodri was there ah behind him. But the other point that you made, Jack, which which i I really do agree with, is the the traditional city ability to just strangle a game yeah with their possession and it almost becomes kind of, oh, it's just so depressing for another team. You're just constantly running after the ball. And then if you're doing that away from home, like at the Vitality, then as you said, you just kill that crowd.
00:26:43
Speaker
And then sooner or later, you know that you're going to get a chance. And when you got Harlan up front, nine times out of 10, you'll put it away. um Although as a side note, I've got to say, Ariola, I'm such a huge fan of, I just think that he's, I think he's brilliant. I think that what what he's doing at Bournemouth is, is so good. There's such a good team.
00:27:02
Speaker
I asked him to be one of our pet replacement. He was talking ah about life after pet. There's something in the water in that Basque region. You see the managers ah that come out. Arteta is one of them, right? Arteta, you've got Emory.
00:27:19
Speaker
um there's there' There's a few of them. so there's There's obviously something something there. um What about Kyle Walker then, Josh? Carl Walker's been under a bit of fire this season. I've seen him um outrun by I think it was Adama Troy, which i or I mean, anybody can do. Outrun by, you know, Adama Troy, but he was really struggling at Bournemouth as well. yeah it's Is this like Jack alluded to that you've got some senior players who then they're struggling, but does that mean that they're that they are now on that downward trajectory or is it just a form thing? It's really interesting that you mention Walker in particular because I was saying to Jesse before I live in Manchester, I've done for many years, I know an awful lot of city fans and all of them are complaining about one thing in particular and it is Kyle Walker. Really? um Being at fault for I think one of being at fault for one of the girls away Brighton being at fault for ah
00:28:25
Speaker
couple of instances at Bournemouth and I think it's that point where this player, let's be honest, and this pains me to say because he was an experts player and you know I slightly hate his guts. He has arguably been one of if not the best right backs in the world for the last five years. He's been at his absolute peak and who's the uh the right back Lewis isn't it the uh the young right back Rico Lewis he's showing flashes of being great but because Walker has been such an impressive force at right back
Squad Rotation and Reinforcement Needs
00:29:00
Speaker
now I don't think there's been enough opportunity for Lewis to try and bed himself in
00:29:04
Speaker
Realistically, I think it would have been better if City had utilised the loans more, possibly got Lewis out a little bit to prepare him for this moment, but... They should loan Harlan out as well, they should loan Harlan out. I think they should be loaned out. Reading could use a first-team striker and Harlan would be, I reckon he'd be perfect for them. competitive league one stuff. He'd be, he'd do okay there. He's a league two though, remember? He's a league two player, isn't he, I think Walker seems to be at that point where his time is coming, but I just don't know. I mean, maybe Jack you can clarify or sort of clear this up a bit more. I don't know if City have prepared enough for when these world-class players have to be rotated out, right? because it seems as though it's almost like it's not quite the Galactico style of just bringing a superstar,
00:30:00
Speaker
but it kind of is just a little bit more technically based, if you know what I mean. So is there a problem with that rotation and that? Yeah, I mean, it's funny to mention that because with Rico Lewis, he's actually been coming in and playing the majority of his games in midfield and next to, you know, Okavacic or something like that. He plays his like this inverted fallback from the start of the game. Rarely comes back and covers a right back. and But, you know,
00:30:27
Speaker
You know, with Kyle Walker, it's a problem because he's our captain. i don't I don't know why for the life of me. I don't think many city players, and city fans, sorry, know why. But if you look at one of the biggest problems this season, our captain hierarchy is Kyle Walker at the top and Kevin De Bruyne, Ruben Diaz, Rodtree, Bernardo Silva and Ilkay Gundogan.
00:30:47
Speaker
All of those players by the last two, you know, the the fifth and sixth in the pecking order, fourth and fifth in the pecking order, have been out with injuries this season. and So it's not just the players that we are lacking, the numbers that we are lacking, it's the personnel who those players are. You know, if you're missing, you know, four-fifths of your captaincy hierarchy on the pitch, you've got no leaders there and it exposes these young players. Now, if I said to you, there's one player who has played the most minutes for Manchester City in the league this season,
00:31:17
Speaker
and I told you that it was a 19-year-old Rico Lewis. You'd probably be quite surprised because him and Harlan have both played 1400 minutes. All it takes is one injury to Harlan and we're in serious trouble going forward and it's exposing these younger players. Rico Lewis for the past three or four games has been pretty poor but before that he started the season really brightly and and it it is a bit of an issue with the kind of replacing cow walk a life for life because luis is a completely different player oftentimes we're seeing him playing most of the game open the ten roll because he operates from the six all the way to the eight all the way to the ten and and rarely gets back and does any any of the defendant right back but i do think it is an issue with
00:32:00
Speaker
who we're we've got on the pitch. I mean, Kyle Walker played his first game against Bournemouth in 19 days. He last played football for England, so he came in really rough, not much much much football in his legs, and you could see that Iraola was targeting Kyle Walker, because Semenyo and Kirkez and other players, they were doubling up on Kyle Walker at times, really trying to expose him, and it worked to it to to their credit. But, yeah, there's a lot of I'd probably say a lack of cohesion between the starting 11 and the subs because they're not coming into a place like for like, you know, like maybe a, I don't know, maybe Jesse, you can give me some more insight, but I see Simicast is a little bit of a similar player profile wise to Robertson, albeit a lack of quality. But when we're replacing Kyle Walker with Rico Lewis, it's two completely different profiles of player. So we have to set up for different games with Kyle Walker, which is why he came in.
00:32:57
Speaker
against Bournemouth straight into the starting 11 because we needed that kind of profile. and But it didn't work because he had no football in his legs. But certain games, like the big champions league fixtures, we need Walker to lock up them 1v1 wingers. Like you said, Josh, he's probably been the best fullback in the world for 1v1 defending elite wingers over the past four or five seasons. It's not the case this season. And he's not lost his pace. He's still just as quick. But his this defensive capabilities that you're making, is's just it's atrocious so something needs to fix for Walker this season and I'm not too sure what it is.
00:33:31
Speaker
you You mentioned, Jack, about the transfer window. So where do you think, realistically, ah Man City are going to try to strengthen? Are they going to try and strengthen? them Well, we have to really. It's rare that we go into a season now looking at the January transfer window as a kind of, this has to save us. Usually we maybe pick up one luxury player or in some rare cases like in that 1920 season when we we got La Porte, I think it was that season.
00:34:00
Speaker
to kind of come in and ah and save our season because we were lacking that center half depth. Now we're in a position where we need another striker because Harlan has played the second most outfield minutes of any player in our team, one injury to him and our second gold top goal scorer this season is Josko Vadio and John Stones.
00:34:18
Speaker
Covertures, they're not goal scorers. So it takes one injury for him to completely derail our season again. And we also need to, I'm sorry, Jesse, I know you you tried to get him, but we need to go to Real Sociedad to get the supermendy fuller. You can have him now, you cant we don't want him. We just need someone in. um I'd argue as well that even the injuries to our back line, we might need to go in in and get a player similar to the profile of a Califiori who can play in multiple positions on that back line. I mean, you look at Nathan Atkay, who's usually probably one of our best 1v1 lockdown defenders. I'm sure Josh, you'll know about how good he's been against Sakharova previously. Oh, he's been an absolute nightmare to play against. He's been phenomenal.
00:35:00
Speaker
He's had how many minutes in his leg this seasons in his legs this season? About 230? 230 minutes. Put it this way, Roger has played 156. He's been just as injury prone and he's not looking to be coming back anytime soon. 224 minutes in his legs. John Stone has played less than 600.
00:35:19
Speaker
Carl Walker also less than 600. We've got a bit of a defensive issue at the moment with lack of availability and options. And and most of those defensive players are in our captaincy hierarchy. So there is a massive de-structure of ah our organization across that back line. I mean, John Stones has done all right, hasn't he? Let's be honest. Yeah, he's done all right.
Upcoming Fixtures and Title Race Implications
00:35:41
Speaker
You what? My if he wants my night yeah my issue with Stones is the same issue I have with Luke Shaw. I think Luke Shaw is fantastic. i and He's one of the best left backs in the world, but there's no point. And it's the same with them ah the Chelsea right back. His name escapes me. There is absolutely no point being an elite top class footballer if you're only available for less than 40% of the season. yeah those Three players all are.
00:36:07
Speaker
yeah Yeah, no, it's absolutely absolutely true. um Give us a prediction then. Obviously, um you you think that you're going to come back and win the title, I suppose. I think the optimist in me says yes, but if Liverpool beat us convincingly at Anfield, that'll probably give us enough confidence going into the rest of December to probably win all their games. And I could see them really running away with it then. So the optimist in me says, yeah, I think we'll come back. But the realist says, it takes one game.
00:36:37
Speaker
Yeah, true. Josh, sixth, seventh. Swap with Man United and end up 13th. That'd be ideal. Now, um it's a tough one. I mean, Jack makes the perfect point. I think a mass, that Anfield game is huge. yeah At least going into a very, what is a very, very congested December. But Liverpool have got some nasty fixtures coming up. They've got some nasty Champions League fixtures coming up as well. City.
00:37:07
Speaker
It's not perfect your run in coming into December, but it's a bit nicer. And ah realistically, December sort of time is when that momentum really starts. keeping up I'm going to still say, see, you're going to win it. I'm still going to. Yeah. Yeah. it's a winner i'm afraid i I can see where you come from. Although I would say this caveat in terms of the Champions League.
00:37:25
Speaker
I think one thing that really works for us is that we've made such a great start in the Champions League that we could probably afford a couple of slip-ups. We've got Real Madrid, actually, the Wednesday before... Please spank Real Madrid. That would be hilarious. I would love that, actually, as well. I feel like we're all part of the Real Madrid hate club. Yeah, absolutely. We've got Real Madrid on the Wednesday before we play City, so it'll be really interesting to see what kind of team slot picks for the Real Madrid game, knowing that City is just a few days away. But look, before this turns into a Man City podcast, I don't know if Jack would like that. Josh, let's turn to the Gunners.
Arsenal's Season Challenges
00:38:08
Speaker
Give me an Arsenal fan if we have the season so far. Jack, let's put our feet up, mate.
00:38:14
Speaker
Oh, the season so far. Take a while. Do you know what? It has been a remarkable season as an Arsenal fan. Started off with such high hopes and a brilliant, brilliant run. And then and I hate using this as an excuse. And I've kind of mentioned it on the Arsenal podcast as well. It shouldn't be an excuse. But the amount of international breaks that we've had And the amount of pointless football, in my opinion, that's been played in the first half of the Premier League season or and any sort of domestic season with all of the international stuff going on, losing your captain two or three games in, who is the focal point of all your creativity, is enormous. ah Then Mikel Marino gets injured in his first training session. Calla Fiore gets injured. We lose timber for a little while. we The red cards that we've suffered as well, it has been,
00:39:07
Speaker
a cataclysm of errors and snapped ankles at the Emirates. Thing is, I say that we're we're still forth. Like, it's not as if we're having a travesty of a season. It's not like we're wolves or something like that. You know, we're not right down the bottom of the table. But it's just been such a weird 11 games. You know, the highs of almost beating city almost almost Beating City. I was watching it in a pub yeah ah in Manchester and I cannot explain how buzzed I was. I'd been interviewing Arsenal fans that day out on the street for the podcast. I sat down in the pub. I was watching it. Seconds to go. Seconds to go. And then John Stone.
00:39:58
Speaker
I can't explain the level of pain that caused me. That was the most celebrated draw I've ever had. I was so angry the entire game and then I was so overjoyed that I didn't even care that we'd we'd got only a point from that game. It was one of the worst days of my life.
00:40:20
Speaker
I had like a, I've got my Arsenal GSPN logo on my coat from the interviews I had. I'd been covered it up walking home just out of shame. Then Liverpool drawing against Liverpool when we really could have won the game as well. And it's just been It's been a very, very odd thing watching Arsenal because the transition from incredibly dominant attacking football to really cautious defensive football. Arteta seems, I love Arteta, by no means am I on the Arteta out crowd, which by the way, is a thing at the moment. There are swathes of Arsenal fans. It's very unusual for Arsenal fans to turn on their mayor.
00:41:01
Speaker
out of character you might say Jesse yeah really but um i'm not on his against him at all but he seems a bit he seems a bit scared almost at the moment um uh the Monday night football with Jamie Carragher where he I thought it was really interesting where he he he looks at Arteta and Arsenal and basically posits an argument that he's turning this Arsenal team into a Mourinho style team. And he adds up with a lot of facts, with a lot of stats. And he didn't say it as ah as an insult. I know people would say, look at that as an insult, but at the end of the day, you know, Mourinho was a winner, you know, at his peak.
00:41:47
Speaker
his teams were, they were winning titles. ah well His argument was that they've slowly moved away from this kind of, I mean, he was a Guardiola assistant, right? Yeah. That style of football. And, you know, they've even in the transfer market, they've been going for very big, physically strong players. And that's kind of reflected on the pitch now in terms of, you know, dark arts and all that kind of stuff. Right. and
00:42:19
Speaker
being more physical, but I think that the problem with that is that and Mourinho had this problem in in the clubs where he's failed is that it's basically and you have to win then because you you really don't have anything else in terms of ah like a playing style, you know, fans are not going to be happy with that playing style unless you win. If you win the title, then great, you know, do do that as as much as you want. And I'm just wondering whether that's something that you would agree with, Jack, whether they they are transitioning into a different team than he had a couple of seasons ago. You know, it's funny, actually, because it's so almost the kind of linear progression that Pep Guardiola made during his time here. If you look at his earlier team, 17, 18, 18, 19. Yeah, true. Just blowing teams away. We we smashed all the goal records. We would concede two, three goals a game, but it wouldn't matter because we'd score seven.
00:43:15
Speaker
Then we kind of transitioned to this, OK, he understood how important it was to have players out wide who were so capable of of dealing 1v1 with these defenders, which kind of brought in this, OK, we've got four center half starting on the back line. and And that just become this very, very much theive defensively cohesive team. But those games where you're losing that width out wide and you're losing that kind of progressive overlapping out wide,
00:43:44
Speaker
yeah your games tend to become a little bit more stale in a way you defensively sound, but you're sacrificing something going forward. So you can kind of see that little progression there with Arteta. He loves players in the jewels. He's mentioned it time and time again. He wants players that are going to win these jewels. And you've got players in this team now, which are just absolute unbelievable aerial threats. We've been battered by Gabrielle time and time again now, and we know that any time after the lineup for a corner, it's like you're taking a penalty kick. and But on the games where you're maybe not getting these set pieces, the games where you're like you've seen Josh this season without Erdogan, your talisman, all it takes is for a team to double-triple up on Saka. Your creative outlets, a few of them have been gone. And for whatever reason, in the last couple of years, Martinelli's been very hit a miss and So there's not a lot of threat going forward.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yes, Martinelli. Is he productive enough, Josh? I mean, last season, um six goals, four assists from 35 appearances. This season, three goals, two assists from 11 appearances. um I think most a lot of those have been as a sub. But I think there is that kind of question mark, ah certainly from from me as ah as a Liverpool supporter. Does he actually impact the game enough?
00:45:10
Speaker
He's an interesting one as Martinelli. I love him as a player. I think he's dynamic. I think he's energetic. He brings something else to the team that we don't have. Kasaka, he's pretty rapid, but he's a technician more than anything is Saka. And I think that's something that people often forget. Martinelli is the one who brings in the pace and he's never been a volume player in that sense. Do you know who, not in terms of physically exactly the same, but almost doing a role, he slightly reminds me of Dirk Kaut.
Arsenal's Tactical and Transfer Needs
00:45:40
Speaker
in the sense of he's that utility player who can fit in along that front line and he does a job, like the pressure that he applies on players, the runs that he makes him behind, he's there to, he's there to fulfill a function more than to be there as the finisher. I mean, that's what the likes of Kai are meant to be there. Kai Havitz is meant to be there for that. But then again, he's not a natural finisher. This is Arsenal's issue at the moment. And like Jack said,
00:46:04
Speaker
When you lose Saka and he gets played out of the game, that creativity goes. Trossard has been poor this season. The boys at the Arsenal Podcast think he's the best finisher in the team. Who, Trossard? Yeah. Well, that's an issue, isn't it?
00:46:18
Speaker
Big issue. I'd argue Saka is definitely the best finisher. Do you think that maybe they think that because he's almost in a similar mould of player to Adeogo Jota at Liverpool. He can play anywhere along that front three and thus you think his strengths more lie in his finishing. But I'd probably agree with you Josh and I don't think he's the best finisher. ah so I do think that that's probably either Erdogan or Saka actually.
00:46:43
Speaker
does does it Does that not speak to ah so Arsenal's um maybe criticism or you know a problem that a lot of people have ah talked about is that they don't have a proper number nine? Is that something that you you you think that they'll address in January?
00:46:59
Speaker
The fact that we've just sat here and said three different names for best finisher at Arsenal it means it's not clear cut. It means that it's it's very much up for debate. Havertz has moments, but realistically he scores goals that he should score. Saka scores worldies, but is inconsistent in goal scoring. Erdegard scores, screams from difference, or comes in late at the back at the sort of the edge of the box and tucks them in, but not every game.
00:47:23
Speaker
It's Gabrielle's probably our best goal scorer, realistically at the moment, but him and Saliba haven't been clicking at the back. They've been a little bit outsourced. Saliba is lacking confidence at the moment and our back line is chopping and changing so much through injury. We do need a goal scorer, realistically, if we are going to be realistic about winning this title. I didn't think we did, but we urgently do because the injury crisis has hit us really hard and there's just such a lack of finishing capability at the top.
00:47:53
Speaker
There's also only one really big name available in Europe right now. And you've just lost that advantage in the transfer market without a name going to United. Hugely. I mean, the only thing that I can think in that sense is that they are already are pretty stacked with offensive players and he wouldn't get much of a look in without completely destroying the changing room and the prospects of Xerxes and Hoyland as well. And that we were in for him in the summer.
00:48:21
Speaker
He said no, because Amarin was still there and now Amarin's jumped ship. Yeah. Because apparently there's quite a lot of discontent at sporting at the moment because they all stuck around for Amarin and now he's left. So that's the only hope I have. I mean, he would be ideal. I still I still quite like Vlajevic. I was just going to say I like Vlajevic as well. And he kind of went under the radar for a a few years after his UVA transfer. But his his underlying numbers have been consistently great at UVA.
00:48:48
Speaker
and he's good in the Champions League in Europe, he's a big physical presence which completely matches Arteta's playstyle. I think you can't go wrong with Larvish, it's whether you can get him from Juve in the position that they're in now, they're doing quite well under, is it Thiago Motta? Motta, yeah, Bologna's manager last year. It's whether they want to depart with with him, but you do need someone. We we do, I mean,
00:49:14
Speaker
That's where the transfer window has to be focused i think yeah we need a little bit of work in the field but marino just needs time to sell in. um but it's the forward line, it's that forward line just needs a massive ah massive boost, because we're lacking energy at the moment and we're floundering a little bit. we're in a We're in a city crisis, you could argue. So so you're you're you're sticking with Arsenal, what, winning it or second? or Oh, I never thought we'd win it. I never thought we'd win it. um ah god If we sign a striker, a good striker in January,
00:49:53
Speaker
We could challenge. If we don't... I don't think City are going to sell Harland to you, mate. I don't want Harland, honestly. I don't rate him that much. I don't want you to have Harland either. I've got a question for you, Jack, in just a moment. But I reckon if we don't sign a big striker, we might struggle for top four. Because this scares me slightly. You know how much we'll all laugh about how terrible the seasons United are having?
Psychological Pressure on Arsenal
00:50:23
Speaker
They're four points behind us. Small sample size though. yeah it's Small sample size still, but it's, you know, it's closer than it should be. And very, very uncomfortable at the moment, having dropped so many points. Not grateful for me to be in. No, I mean, technically Chelsea are above us currently. So it's very nice that you've invited me on. ah and But just before we finish, Jack, should you have sold Alvarez?
00:50:54
Speaker
um You know what? I don't think any other summer we get 95 million or whatever it was for him. But for that in that aspect, I think it was okay for us to sell Alvarez. However, I think it was only okay for us to have sold Alvarez if we'd so bought a direct replacement or at least a body, a capable body. We've been linked with names from Self-Tick. I think it's Furiasa, the young Japanese striker there. but They're not really the names that we should be kind of dipping about. We just need someone now. So in hindsight, which is obviously 2020, should we have sold Alvarez now that we've got you know this lack of players? Probably not. But I don't think at next season or the season after, we still get nearly 100 million for him, which is frustratingly money that we've not reinvested. So we do have to go in in January and and buy a couple of players now.
00:51:47
Speaker
I mean, you're right on the 2020 Smith row would have been helpful this season, but one one last question for you. I've got one last question for you because I want to give you a reason why I predicted Arsenal would finish third. Okay. It wasn't, it wasn't just out of spite or I do have a reason. And this is the reason I've got I think Arsenal are in that zone where they had to have won something last season. I think that nate they are there comes a point with a team that you can't keep getting second. You can't just keep missing out. yeah Because sooner or later, it's just going to affect the team mentally. And I look at the Liverpool team when we're you know we're going up against Man City.
00:52:40
Speaker
The perfect example is missing out on the Premier League by getting 97 points. yeah I mean, that is soul destroying and that really should have broken that team, you know, because it it was perfectly reasonable for that team to just say, you know what, 97 points. There's just no point. if If you can't win the Premier League on 97 points,
00:53:06
Speaker
let's just go home. yeah But what do they do, they go and win the Champions League and they go and win the Premier League. And that was for me, the great achievement was coming back from missing out on the Premier League with such a high points tally. And I'm just wondering whether Arsenal have gone beyond that point. um And we're seeing the effects of that now, that you you keep coming second, you keep challenging and you don't get over the line. So the question is, do you have to win something big this season? For me, I think the Premier League, I don't think you're going to do it. But is it now a case of Arteta thinking, look, guys, let's just go all in for the Champions League.
00:53:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually a really, really good question, Jesse. I mean, you're right. Last year, Fulham, that result goes different. We win the title and because it was it was two points, I think in the end, wasn't it? Two points in the title race. um The Arsenal team is also very young and in terms of sort of big heads, they have leaders for sure, Erdogan's surprising leader, Erdogan really, for sort of the stature of him and the the age of him. But then you've got Rice and players like that. They haven't really faced too much, like you say, adversity in that sense of just missing out. Do we need to win something this year? Yes.
00:54:36
Speaker
Champions League. See, this is the problem. This is the problem of being an Arsenal fan for 20 years. I'm just burnt. I know that somewhere along the line, Bayern Munich are waiting with Harry Kane to ruin our day. And he'll break his curse and he'll finally win it he'll finally win a trophy. I think,
00:54:59
Speaker
but but so i think no, you're right. We have to win something. Otherwise, then you do have to question if Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this out loud, but maybe something at the top needs to change to give a little bit of energy. I mean, Edo's just left out of the blue. Maybe, you know, a new new person coming in to fill that fill that position might give us a little bit of impotence and a little bit of punch, but you're right, we need something. Because at the moment- I knew we'd finish on our tetter out.
00:55:28
Speaker
yeah Absolutely not. or the record absolutely not but yeah We need some energy because like you say, there's a risk of floundering at the moment. We've done so well. I think the fact that we overperformed so much two years ago has worked well against our favor because it means now the expectations are way too high for possibly what they're capable of mentally doing.
00:55:55
Speaker
Well, we shall see. so Sounds like a seventh place finish then.
Conclusion and Thank Yous
00:56:01
Speaker
and That's all for today. My thanks to Josh and Jack for joining joining us today. I'm sure we're all going to send them our very best wishes for the rest of the season. You can listen to the Daily Liverpool Podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. Give us a follow so that you get the very latest content when it drops. Follow us on social media at GSPN Liverpool.
00:56:23
Speaker
You can email us gspndailylovewattgmail.com. Join us again on Monday for all the latest news on the reds. Until then, thank you for listening.
00:56:39
Speaker
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