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S2 Ep83: Hotline Miami
71 Plays6 years ago
Join Dave and Jake as they dive into one of Jake's favorite games in this week's episode!
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Thoughts? Comments? Requests for new episodes? Feel free to email them in!
SoapstonePodcast@gmail.com
Like our podcast? Like our podcast! We'll post when new episodes are uploaded!
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Transcript
Introduction and Disclaimer
00:00:00
Speaker
The following presentation has been approved for mature audiences only. Now, enjoy the show.
Meet the Hosts: Jake and Dave
00:00:39
Speaker
How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake. I'm joined by my co-host, as always, Dave. How's it going tonight, Dave? No. Okay. Just know this time. I might be so bad. Yeah, you should just know. Have you heard it too many times recently, making the recap?
00:00:55
Speaker
No, I don't have a good response. Let me phrase. I can think of like weird response. I don't have a positive response. So I don't want to as I'm not drowning this out and elongating my response. This is now it's not trying to send out negative vibes. Right. That's that's important. You got to keep the good vibes up.
00:01:15
Speaker
You have to keep your vibes charged, otherwise it's just a... You guys can't hear us quit, but if you could. Just a silicone toilet. If you could, then you would.
Banter and Brotherhood
00:01:27
Speaker
So one of the reasons I feel like you should be happy is you got to play some Hotline Miami before this episode, which is obviously an unrelated game.
00:01:37
Speaker
Unrelated, yes. I was playing some Hotline Miami recently for not to episode of my own volition. I don't know if our listeners really appreciate how much effort we put into making the intro as roundabout as possible.
00:01:53
Speaker
it's like first pass it's always like oh yeah we just say the name of the game and we're like nah nah cross that we're like hey um we actually just watch as we're recording we're like not until five minutes will we say the name of the game and get into the episode right and do some roundabout bullshit we figured we'd mix it up a little bit this time by actually saying the name of the game but not introducing it as the game we're talking about
Game Spotlight: Hotline Miami
00:02:16
Speaker
We've definitely done that before. It's like, yeah. So what'd you, some of them monitor your solid and it's like, Oh, real quick. A story. And then 10 minutes later, we're like, Oh, right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There's a bit of it. Um, but yeah, this time we are talking about hotline Miami, um, which is a murder simulator.
00:02:36
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that's, that's not wrong. Yeah. There's a lot of games that are, uh, accused of being murder simulators and then hotline Miami came out and it was like, I guess too windy or something or nobody cared. It wasn't made by take two. Um, it was too pixelated again. You get a pass. Sims didn't get a pass though. They, uh, had pixelated and quote unquote nudity.
00:03:00
Speaker
What was it called when Sims would have sex? Woohoo. Woohoo, yeah. But yeah, there's all these claims that they actually were naked under the censorship and you could just remove it, but they were just Barbie dolls.
00:03:15
Speaker
But I mean, if that's what you're into, that's definitely sexual. I think one of my favorite things I think I saw it was like on r slash funnier gaming or something, but it was a render or the animation of Sims committing the act of woohoo.
00:03:32
Speaker
But like with the blanket removed or whatever and it's just like models like distorting like in all these crazy ways and nonsense like There was nothing sexual about it. It was more horrific than anything else. Oh god absolutely great But unlike that other murder simulator the Sims people who removed the entrance to the pool and
00:03:56
Speaker
know exactly what i'm talking about dude i was gonna if we were gonna hang on sims i was gonna be like that's the first thing i did yeah be like how long can you swim motherfucker you hate when you walk into a room in a house and then the door vanishes behind you you're just like oh hey i got i got an appointment in 15 minutes i can't stay too long i guess i'll stay forever um and then you haunt the place naturally um
00:04:22
Speaker
But hotline Miami's more that Definitely is So what it actually is for somebody who has no concept of it outside of reading the text hotline Miami Yeah, it is a top-down view kind of like you're looking at a floor plan and you go around with your fist melee weapons and guns and you are Going through and murdering people. Yep
00:04:50
Speaker
That's basically the game. So thank you guys for listening. As always, you can reach out to us. No, that's actually it. That's the basic premise mechanically. It's not all that complicated. And I think a lot of people might be turned off.
00:05:06
Speaker
from that initially. Raised his hand. Yeah, that was me. Entirely. See, I was turned on by him. The complexity really comes from how you have to approach each situation in each level a little bit differently. You got to solve it. You got to figure out where the enemies are. Some items, some weapons and things could be randomized, depending on what you have unlocked. But that doesn't matter nearly as much as the way I'd put it is planning your route.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, I bust in the front door. I hit a guy with a bat. I like throw the bat. I pick up a gun. I shoot, you know, like you plan it out like real life. I want to maybe put a disclaimer at some point in the early bits. I don't want a proponent of murder. Wow. Take it a strong anti murder stance.
00:05:59
Speaker
But anytime you go to a level, it's like a, like I said, a 2D floor plan. And sometimes you can walk around the outside, around the outside. It's kind of like a look to see where guards are, or people with guns, or whoever you're trying to kill. There's also like a look button. You can hold shift on PC.
00:06:16
Speaker
To a degree. Yes. It's pretty useful actually. Without it. Oh yeah. It's something useful, but it's like, um, local proximity around yourself. You couldn't see like stuff in the far corner. Oh, right. You can't see the whole map. Yeah. So you kind of have to go quick and be cautious or like do a perimeter sweep or just die and fuck up and then try again. Yeah. It's like the equivalent of, uh, holding down in a platform or something. You're just like, what's down there? What's up there? Commander Keen ask.
00:06:46
Speaker
I mean, a lot of platformers have it. What's the oldest reference I can mention? How do I go down? I bring my feet up, my knees and butt still stay in the same place, and I fall. Or I take out this pogo sting. So anyways, I took out the pogo sting.
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's all about gathering the information, planning your attack, and then, um, and implementing it. And it's kind of like, um, I would equate it in some ways to like super meat boy, where failure can come really fast. Uh, if you like make a mistake, um, but it's a one fuck up thing, but then it starts you over. Yeah, exactly. You just hit R and you're like, all right, we're right back in there at the checkpoint issue with that early on though was, um,
00:07:34
Speaker
I feel probably being a little too overly cautious. And I'd be like, okay, there's a guy there. I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna shoot him. As soon as I fired the gun, guards are like, do you guys hear guns? And then they would come to your position. But as soon as they had like a bead on you, they would shoot you pretty instantly. MGS exclamation points to show up all over the map. Yeah. And it was just like immediate death. And it was really punishing for how I was going about it. Yeah.
00:08:00
Speaker
But when I went back to play more tonight I was much more in the groove of like ducking around corners shooting the shotgun going back Mm-hmm having like a guard and two dogs be like guns. Yeah, and then come around the corner But I you can see them come in exactly so you can take the attack of opportunity Which allows you to die roll first, right? Yeah, they moved into your your your threat range and you can attack them You fell for my die roll
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of how it's it's one of the the learning curve sort of of the game is managing enemy threat But the the loading screens to their credit like have some useful tips for that One of them is like don't be afraid to die That's the first step in like hotline. Miami. You're gonna die a lot. There's an achievement for dying like a hundred thousand times it's Not hard to get I was it's not a hundred thousand, but it's definitely a lot. It seems a lot. It's like a thousand I think It's it's a lot
00:08:56
Speaker
It could have been a couple hundred might have been like 500. It was five. It was five deaths. Okay, it was 100 times there's actually like ascending achievements so like oh you get this many when you die this many times Yeah
00:09:13
Speaker
Kind of hilarious. But yeah, don't be afraid to die. And then the other useful tip that's really accurate is enemies are predictable. Which is true once you know how they act. And until then, that's not very useful of a tip.
00:09:33
Speaker
Um, but like you'd say you shot a gun. Everybody ran at you. Uh, you can exploit that by being like, Hey, I'm going to shoot a gun on this side of like a door and I know everyone will run at me. So, uh, I'll like hit them with the door, knock them to the ground. There'll be in a vulnerable state and you can just walk up and execute them. Um, there's like, there's other ways like that. If enemies don't, they'll run to where you fired, but if you like duck behind a corner, uh, they won't be able to find you. They have very, very limited. I'm going to search for you.
00:10:02
Speaker
They'll kind of stay in place look around like definitely heard a gun. Yeah, it's the Skyrim thing, right? Must have been nothing as like their friend is pelted with arrows literally that But yeah being able to Accommodate that AI learning like how it works learning how quickly they'll attack if they run up at you with a melee weapon Knowing when to attack with your weapon like those are all
00:10:31
Speaker
Skills you just develop through playing the game. Yeah, a lot of it is being the aggressor at the right time exactly It's going back to that like attack of opportunity. It's being like I see you before you see me I'm gonna attack and then you try and maybe attack another person, but then if you need to like double back to get into like a safer position where they're coming into you and you still know where they're going to be Yeah, while they're looking for you because they don't know your position yet is much more helpful
00:11:01
Speaker
Yeah. And also you can execute people like Jake was saying, which is if they're in like a knocked out state, you can kill them with whatever gun or just beat them to death against the floor. The game is pretty violent. Like if that's not blatantly obvious at this point.
00:11:19
Speaker
A lot of pixel giblets.
Violence and Morality in Gaming
00:11:22
Speaker
Yes, lots of pixel blood. There's basically executions for most of the weapons. A lot of them, if they're melees, you just hit them. Sledgehammer is pretty gruesome. We just straight up down on their head. They're gone. If you've got an eye field, cut their throat real quick on the ground. There's a bunch of different executions like that. Unarmed, you smash them several times.
00:11:44
Speaker
I think it's one with a pot of boiling water too, right? I don't think so. I never had a pot of boiling water as a weapon. That's a thing. I watched it in a playthrough. Interesting. There's like a pot or pan in some levels, but I think one that is like by a sink. You can either fill it up where it's already filled or it's on a stove. It was hot. And you just kind of like pour it on the guys face like, fuck you.
00:12:08
Speaker
Wow, jeez, yeah, I haven't experienced that but there's a lot of kind of hidden stuff like that in the game There's some kind of unique weapons you can get a suitcase at some point because it's like an objective but it's also a weapon because you know everything is and Yeah, basically all of that's useful in your arsenal, but you can also throw whatever item you have equipped. Hell yeah, which is Like one of my favorite ways to like get through a level It's very very powerful because you can stun anybody running at you
00:12:37
Speaker
And also it's silent. Yes, so I can walk into a room with a gun be like now It's not the best time to make noise and throw the gun at them They're like who threw a gun and then they're unconscious. I go and execute silently pick up the gun again It's basically super hot except time only moves all of the time It's the same game just that's the difference and the perspective and
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, throwing and throwing is absolutely amazing. There's actually, I barely ever executed these, but there's standing takedowns. So if you'll sneak up behind somebody or something like that, and you tap spacebar, which is a relatively unused key for the most part, you'll just execute them, do a standing takedown. Or if you have a gun, you'll take them as a hostage, basically, you'll have a meat shield.
00:13:30
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I only like I accidentally Pull it off sometimes I never thought to do that The amazing wasn't prompted will run at you the rains ones will still shoot at you But you'll take tons of bullets cuz there's you got husband versus Never taking any bullets. Yes. Otherwise you pretty much just die. What's your character's name in this game? Oh
00:13:54
Speaker
So your character's name in this game is jacket. That's pretty much what you're wearing. You don't have body armor. You have a Letterman jacket, so bullets go right through you. It's worth noting. It's just a fan name. They never actually name him in the game at any point in either this or Hotline Miami 2. But I think by the time Hotline Miami 2 came out, they actually started naming the character files jacket. They're just like, all right, we agree with the community. So that's kind of cool. That's nice to see.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah. Actually, that was the thing. I didn't assume it was always a named character. Yeah. Yeah. He's silent. So you don't learn too much necessarily from him besides his actions and how he kind of participates in the world.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah, like anybody. Right, exactly. They didn't say much, but they went to the store to grab eggs three times a week. I think they like eggs, right? Yes. Or they ate a lot of houses. It's the alternative. Maybe it's just an asshole. It doesn't care about protein. People are complex, you know? What got you into this game? Because you said this is one of your big draws. And you said that the initial combat layout was not a turnoff for you.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think it took like a while to to kind of fall into place for me. I was just gonna I don't know why I picked it up. It must have been on sale or it was really cheap or something I've never seen it over five times. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty pretty cheap came out in 2012. So It's pretty cheap money wasn't a thing back. Okay. I traded three sticks and a carton of eggs, which I personally didn't like I got the game but um
00:15:33
Speaker
I really like a lot of things about the game. I like the storytelling. I like the gameplay is addictive for me. For someone else it might kind of get frustrating. And for a lot of people it gets frustrating. The completion rate on Hotline Miami is not very high.
00:15:52
Speaker
And it's also got like a, if the art style is like psychedelic, so like the map will kind of move while you're going through it. Like your guy's high almost constantly. Yeah, there's like a bit of, uh, it's like pivoting and stuff.
00:16:09
Speaker
I don't want to say a fisheye lensing, but it kind of bows on the outside just a little bit, or it kind of like swivels. Yeah. There are a lot of times with, I said the art style, or they might have like a filter where it's a little bit trippy at all points. Yeah. The game's just incredibly trippy in many ways, but, um, I don't know, it all came together for me and then was, was addictive. So like, I don't really like platformers, as I think I've mentioned before. There's some that are really good that I appreciate, but it's on the genre I usually like dive into.
00:16:39
Speaker
as i sit here holding my buster camera right exactly speak your peace son um but like i made earlier the comparison to super meat boy yeah uh super meat boy is a game i i really enjoyed because it just like crawled into my brain and was like you must beat this level i was like but ah i'm so bad at it and it's like doesn't matter you're gonna beat this
00:17:04
Speaker
It's, I don't know, it was like quick, snappy, and fun. In the same way, I got into Celeste because I like the theming, I like how the platforming felt, and it had a nice motivation to keep going forward. And Meat Boy did that in the same way where it's like, hey, just pick up your meat sack and do it again.
00:17:23
Speaker
And you got used to like how quick you were and like some like sliding physics and stuff And you're like, yeah, I completed a level and then you watch how many times you fucked up. Yeah, and you're like Yeah, I like this game. I'm glad I spent 250 on it I think it actually like it has some similarities to the the the experience I get in hotline Miami too because I have from a lot I played through and beat the game um in preparation for this episode again
00:17:49
Speaker
And I remember one specific level where I know I walked upstairs. There was three enemies. All of them had melee weapons, except a guy with a gun. And I was like, okay, my plan is I'll walk in, quickly swing the bat twice, kill the two people when the guy with the gun's close enough to the doorway so I can take him out.
00:18:10
Speaker
throw my weapon at the melee guy that comes down, grab a gun, shoot the guy down the hall. I planned this all out and I failed it like 30 times. Try to go that exact route? Yeah, exactly. I was trying to get one of the hidden letters and this is in a level where police break in after you've made some certain progress in the map and you can't kill the SWAT members, they all just get knocked to the ground.
00:18:37
Speaker
So I was like, I have to go really fast. I have to execute this quickly. And I was like, all right. I'm failing. I'm failing. I'm failing. I'm failing. I should take a break. I'm failing. I'm failing. I'm failing. I was like, I got to do other things. Now I'm still failing, failing. But when I stopped, I was just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm taking a break.
00:18:58
Speaker
Only only quitters quit exactly that's what it felt like But conversely when I figured it out when I got my route when I planned it out when I threw my weapon at the Because I realized like oh, I can't shoot the guy down the hall all these other people run in and make everything complicated I'll charge at him, and I'll throw my weapon But I have to be at the right range, so he doesn't shoot me immediately Because there's a slight delay
00:19:24
Speaker
It's kind of like, um, if you broken into someone's room and they had like a gun pointed at the door, the amount of time it would take them to be like, Oh crap, that guy has a gun. Like I should shoot him. That's literally like how long it takes the enemies to react. So you're saying yourself as the person who broke in, you're like, do they have a, they have a gun. That's the hesitation. Yeah, exactly. There's a moment of recognition.
00:19:48
Speaker
I recognize you too, Abigail. So being seen in this game, they give you points at the end, which hardly count for anything, but you get a level score, like up to A+, because this isn't Japan, obviously, based off of what approaches you used. And one of the bonuses is called exposure, or double exposure, triple exposure.
00:20:12
Speaker
I think it's some of those. What is that for? That's if enemies see you. So those are bonus points. You do get bonus points for it. So it's not a stealth game. Get in there. But I don't know, like the feeling of accomplishing beating the level feels really good and getting better at the mechanics because I went through probably half of the game and then I was like, crap, I'm not collecting the secret letters that are on every level and like the main game.
00:20:43
Speaker
I need to go back and do that and Went back and just destroyed all the levels that like took me time to get through the first time cuz you'd learn the mechanic so yeah I had that I had the feel for it the the kind of adrenaline When you're just getting charged by all these guys and your timing your attacks and you're throwing smashing all it's just great I just pause as soon as I charge about these guys
00:21:06
Speaker
It's got that, uh, it's got a bit of the doom, rip and tear sort of visceral feel to it. Um, although you have very little health, you die to anything. The only, the only advantage jacket has is he's faster than everyone else. He runs faster. He shoots faster. He attacks faster.
Character Analysis: Jacket's Journey
00:21:25
Speaker
Um, that's cause he's, he's awesome. Obviously.
00:21:29
Speaker
And it would it would suck if it Everyone's on a level playing field, but there's 20 of them go and go yeah So what do you like about this game? From the sense of I know you're not big on violence in general right you said it makes you That's squeamish. Yeah, it should be obvious to our listeners. I'm not big on violence Do you hear much of a little bitch Jake is not like in blood? Oh?
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean it used to bother me more when I was much younger right the the fact that it's all fantasy I think um helps in this case Like I know that it's all entirely fake. It's a video game. It's an arcade game is the way how it feels
00:22:11
Speaker
It's actually much more that feel But it one of the things I appreciate about it is so like I was talking about how you learn more about jackets character based off of like what he does, right and As this relates to violence. He has all of your almost all of your opponents in the game There are exceptions are Russian mobsters. Mm-hmm He gets phone calls. This is a primary mechanic. He gets phone calls. They're always sort of a
00:22:41
Speaker
Message saying go to this location do something. Hey, you're a cleaner go here clean up a spill or something like that We're like do laundry. Yeah, they're all like openings like 70s pornos. Yeah. Hey, could you go deliver this pizza? It's like I got extra sausage Then you show up in those Russian mobsters jacket wipes them out and then walks back through and there's
00:23:06
Speaker
You could be forgiven I think for just assuming that the game is just like a violence a murder simulator with no other kind of redeeming qualities but And that's that's when you're going through clearing when you're doing the assault. There's like pounding music You might be listening to perturbator or moon or one of these other, you know artists Um, and it's like yeah, it amps you up. It hypes you up. You're like i'm getting through this gonna kill them all, right? Um, but then you have to walk back
00:23:34
Speaker
at the end, after you've completely depopulated the mobsters and the music cuts out.
00:23:40
Speaker
And you see all the corpses and blood. Yeah. And it forces you to do that for every level. Like you always walk back through all of it, which I think is is really cool for a moment of like reflection. It's like, great. Good job. You're the best. Here's your reward. So to that point, I was watching some lower stuff because I definitely missed that the game had a plot. Yeah. I was going through because I'm very much in that.
00:24:12
Speaker
It's like a fun to run around attack things type game. It's not uncommon to have 2d top down games. You just run around fucking shit up. And that's the fun is like, you're powerful. You're fucking shit up. That's not it. Um,
00:24:28
Speaker
I was I was gonna finish but kind of what I was talking about. I know is rambling but no, no, there's So he has no problem killing Russians doesn't feel the entire game really early at the beginning you're forcing a confrontation where a bum attacks you and Jacket you have you have to kill the bum. It's necessary to complete the level And after doing so he throws up
00:24:55
Speaker
Your character throws up. And it's really important because this is one of the few moments of humanity that he kind of exhibits. He dehumanizes Russians. For reasons explained in the second game, has no problem killing them at all. But for somebody else, he sees them more as human.
00:25:22
Speaker
Until you get to the police level then he kills a lot of police but Those are this is after like a lot's happened to him at that point, right? I did remember my train of thought. Yeah, we'll switch back. We'll switch the track over to Dave side conductor hat
00:25:40
Speaker
So one of the things as you're going through these, the very first thing that Jake's mentioning where you have to fire off the bomb, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is before you have any mask and you're going out to actual locations.
00:25:55
Speaker
It's it's either before you get a mask at all or right after like the first hit. It's very very early. Yep. Okay. Mm-hmm. So basically as A jacket is going through these things and you can like pick between different masks and each mask gives you like some level bonus Yeah for like I usually went Tony Tony's if like I punched an enemy They weren't like knocked out or knocked back and then I have to go execute them. They just died Yeah, it was awesome. There's a lot of times if I hit an enemy knocked him down. I'd be like, oh, they're dead Mm-hmm cuz a lot of shit's going on
00:26:24
Speaker
Right. And then they get up and they're like, my gun's still here. They pick it up and they shoot me and I'm like, fuck. Yeah. Start over the level.
00:26:31
Speaker
But in the same way a lot of people and jagged specifically can like wear on a map wear a mask And then say it's not me. Yeah, it's the mask i'm being i'm hiding under this guys Um you as a player like going through you're like i'm just playing a game i'll run around with the music and stuff And it's not me. It's the character. Yeah, and you go through and afterwards is like
00:26:57
Speaker
You did that that that's you yeah, that's you. Yeah, it is. It's like it's what you do. Yeah, so I So to what you're saying that on I don't think that the game is a complete murder simulator. Mm-hmm I think that's what it is mechanically. Yeah for sure It's not Promoting it. It's just it's the subject matter. Mm-hmm, you know
00:27:19
Speaker
It's also like it's fair to say that the game actually it criticizes jackets actions like pretty heavily because at the beginning there's five chapters. I said well not chapters but parts and chapters around 20 25 chapters in total but
00:27:35
Speaker
At the beginning of every part there's a kind of like a hallucination almost session where Jacket talks to three people who are wearing the three original masks, which is like Rasmus the owl Richard the rooster and
00:27:51
Speaker
and don won the horse exactly don won the horse and they all kind of have different attitudes but those attitudes are things like um one of them's openly derisive the other one's kind of sympathetic but and almost like maternal kind of paternal like oh you don't like look at all this crap that's happening to you it's kind of your fault though um and the other's like not really useful but it's cryptic um
00:28:16
Speaker
And they're always telling you things like, do you think you're a good person? Do you like hurting other people? There's all this stuff. And there's a story justification for it, for how it's all the hallucinations that you experience through the game. And that he's actually in a hospital, revisiting his memories of all these things he's done.
00:28:41
Speaker
but uh it definitely doesn't leave you feeling like oh yeah i'm the protagonist i'm the good guy well i would still say you're the protagonist but you're not the hero yes you could be an anti-hero perhaps
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah because obviously mobsters are bad, right but Like as you find out through other things because every time you complete a mission you get to go back to your apartment Uh, you have the option to read like a newspaper clipping or something. That's around your apartment Yeah, it says like oh and like a recent attack some mass people were found and then these people died Yeah, and there are times where it's like oh some russian mobsters. Oh some
00:29:22
Speaker
Bad hombres to make myself sound whiter than I am. But there's also times where you kill political figures. You're pretty white though, Dave. I am. I am very white. For those who have imagined me as any other race, no, I'm white. Yeah. This is the race reveal. 82 episodes race reveal. I like how close it sounds to face reveal or something that the YouTuber could do if they're not on cam.
00:29:51
Speaker
Right Oh and You know, he he we haven't done that. Have we face film now? I mean people could probably divine some things if they actually know us Based on facebook. Yeah, that's very true. Um, well another videos True, actually. Yeah. I always forget about those. Yeah, we do those sometimes
00:30:12
Speaker
We have broken the sanctity of the podcast persona and become real people on occasion. But which one's which? That's the mystery. I'm pretty sure we've spoken during some of the videos.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's there's also some comeuppance for everything that happens like Jacket goes around he kills all these people at one point part of the sort of the redemption arc. I don't know You find a woman who's like really high on drugs you've killed all of the other like Russians in the area and she's just like hey just kill me make it quick, whatever and
00:30:51
Speaker
She yells at you if you try to leave, actually. She's like, what are you, a coward? Come finish the job. And jacket picks her up and takes her back to his apartment.
00:31:01
Speaker
Which ends better than you know, you might immediately assume given that she does not Get murdered by jacket, right? She like is off on the couch kind of in a separate room. No starts to recover No, no, so this may want to point out from watching a little video so I can actually contribute right and interrupt these rats. Yes
00:31:23
Speaker
So when you initially take her back, um, she kind of like locked herself in the bathroom and she's kind of Getting herself back together and composed because she's not locked in that house anymore. Right because Very pixelated but on the bed was like a syringe handcuffs There's like some blood on the ground and like three stand-up movie cameras. Mm-hmm
00:31:46
Speaker
So she was being like used in films for something. This is the jackets apartment. This is the Russian place. Yeah, this is where you take her from. Yeah. And then as you come back, like you see in like the bath one time and then like a couple of ones later, you see your apartment is clean.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah, she cleans the place up. You see that she's actually not Well, you see she's out of the bathroom. You see she's on the couch And then later point you see that she has the other bed, which was just kind of a piece of shit mattress He has like a guest bed. Yeah. Yeah, but then you see she's sleeping in the bed And then later you actually see like the beds get pushed together. They get pushed together. Yeah. Yeah
00:32:25
Speaker
It's really cool. They're fucking how my parents used to back in the 50s. Um, but I completely missed that progression of story aspect because I'm like, all right, let me answer the phone next mission. Yeah. But it's really cool to see that level of detail because she is an important facet of the storyline for the events that happen to jacket. Exactly.
00:32:49
Speaker
it's it's kind of she's the inciting event essentially because after It's it's honestly I think it's the mission after their beds are pushed together So it's kind of even more tragic because they've kind of found each other. It's yeah, it's like hey this companion cubes your best friend All right. I really love companion cubes. They're like murder. It is like what? It's right when they get to that. I see this is a plausible thing that I understand and appreciate they're like kill it So it's more impactful
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah, she gets killed by, uh, someone who's presumably sent by the Russian mafia. Um, and there's more to it than that, but they get into it and like the later game. Um, and ultimately jackets hospitalized when this assassin like takes him out and that contextualizes everything that happened previous in the game, all the hallucinations, everything like that. It's cause he's in a coma.
00:33:38
Speaker
So even the interactions with the three people in the mass are part of those hallucinations, right? Yes.
Narrative Depth and Storylines
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah. Those are just his conscience trying to remember, uh, basically, well, consciousness, trying to remember who he was, uh, remember all of the actions he's taken and berate him for essentially murdering on behalf of, uh, this phone caller, whoever's been calling him.
00:34:02
Speaker
So I have two questions, um, on behalf of somebody who's not me, Rasmus, who is described, he's like dressed up like the other Russian mobsters. My thought is that is his conceptualization of the people he's killed. Right. Who would obviously say like your piece of shit. Yeah. He's very cynical. Um.
00:34:26
Speaker
Richard is dressed exactly like you. So I think that's supposed to be you or like, uh, the other part of your brain, it's more conscious of your actions and currency to being, but who the hell is Don Juan? Don Juan is actually, so in some art that was released, um, the girl, the girlfriend is wearing the Don Juan mask.
00:34:50
Speaker
Okay, so the fact that Don Juan is the most sympathetic mask Actually ties a lot of that together. It's like it's the one that's trying to help you through this but Like yeah, she unfortunately was killed because she got caught up in everything you were doing
00:35:07
Speaker
but the big sort of reveal one of the things Richard says is like Someone you know is not who you think they are and he tells you a bunch of other things He either asks you a bunch of questions or he tells you a bunch of points that have no context. They're super vague Yeah Yeah, and one of those is you know, someone you know is not who you think they are and that's the assassin the person who killed Your girlfriend who hospitalized you he's just another person getting these phone calls and at this point
00:35:36
Speaker
If you're paying attention, I know I wasn't. You can think back to all the levels and you're like, crap, I picked up a lot of masks off dead people. And the phone calls kind of sometimes mentioned that someone else was sent there already.
00:35:47
Speaker
Well, sometimes the phone calls, but also in the newspaper clippings, they would say like, um, several like mass people. Uh, we're doing taxes plays and you're like, I was one guy. Right. So I guess part of the assumption could be once you start out the game, you have access to like three or four masks. Right. So maybe it got misconstrued in the news report or for what was reported. Hmm.
00:36:13
Speaker
Because it could theoretically be the multiverse of you doing separate attempts during masks. I don't know. By using different masks like they couldn't be the same person. They're wearing different masks. What are you talking about? I like how my brain jumps like multiverse versus maybe there's somebody else. I was gonna let it go.
00:36:32
Speaker
But yeah, it's a it's an organization You only really get some of the backstory on if you collect all the puzzle pieces across all the levels But they're called 50 blessings. The name actually shows up relatively early Depending on if you're paying attention or not and their symbol which kind of looks like a hamburger is actually painted across a lot of the levels or in some of them right outside jackets room like at the police crime scene
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah. Um, it's, yeah, it's something you wouldn't notice unless you knew that was their symbol. Then you're like, Oh, interesting. But, uh, basically they just, they are Patriots, essentially. Like the word Patriots actually comes up a lot. I'm like, is this metal? Is this metal? The Patriots. Um, but, uh, the, there's a, like a Russian American pact.
00:37:26
Speaker
Basically there was this is in a universe where the cold war became a very hot war And then they that means with nukes nukes Yeah, and then there was a treaty and now they're no longer attacking each other 50 blessings is really upset by this and they want to reignite the war
00:37:43
Speaker
So are they warmongers? Yeah, they're they believe in American exceptionalism and they're like the fact that we're letting Russians in our country and we're associating with them and They're you know committing crime and all this stuff. None of this can stand so they basically blackmail people Who originally believed in their cause we responded to their pamphlets about you know, freedom and patriotism and stuff Into killing all these monsters
00:38:17
Speaker
My other question is, do we know at this point, why jacket is taking these phone calls? Cause starts off pretty early. He's like, Hey, can you go take out the suitcase? You're like, yeah, obviously from like a player game standpoint, I'm doing a thing. The game tells me the game level's not clear yet. Got to find more things to kill. But, uh, do we know at this point in jackets motivation for,
00:38:35
Speaker
Well, yeah, nothing like a little bit of xenophobia in your presidency.
00:38:45
Speaker
Murdering that's what of the initial self-defense, right? It's kind of You can see the pamphlets for 50 blessings like around his apartment So it's it's not outright said but as many things are in the game It's implied that he you know, he wrote into the mailing list basically
00:39:02
Speaker
It was like, hey, I want more information about this freedom movement and things, and then just got drawn into it until it became, get a call, go wipe out a warehouse full of mobsters.
00:39:17
Speaker
But they don't let people out once they reach that point. They're like, Hey, you got any family? You know, and jacket is not the best detective. He doesn't figure out. In fact, Richard at one point says like, it's too late. You'll never see the whole picture. You'll never figure it out. Nothing that you do beyond this point matters. And you're like, but I'm still playing the game. Kind of bold of you to tell me that. I just quit at that point. It's like, all right, fuck you guys. Yeah.
00:39:46
Speaker
Um, but it's, it's true basically because, uh, jacket ultimately becomes imprisoned. You either do or don't kill Richter, the person who was sent to kill you and your girlfriend. I'm also working for 50 blessings. It doesn't matter whether you do or don't. And, uh, yeah, he's, he's in prison and he never figures it all out. Yeah. He doesn't know that.
00:40:11
Speaker
Your organization is pulling the strings and why he just Knows what he know pretty much what you know as a player. Mm-hmm is roughly what he knows Yeah, it's kind of they they realized I think that it would be not satisfying to end it like that though So the the fifth chapter has you play as biker? Who is someone jacket kills in the first pass through so
00:40:36
Speaker
Jumping back a little bit around level Five six seven. Um, yeah at a point you're told to Go clear this building you do And then it says like oh, it's level complete. You're cool And then you get a phone call in the location that you're actually at it's inside the building
00:40:58
Speaker
So you pick up and you're like, hello? And they say like, hey, we're having some trouble at the phone company. There's a bit of like a prank call right here. Could you like swing by? So you go over there through like whatever cutscene driving, you get out of your car, you're DeLorean. Yeah. Oh, it's a DeLorean. Yeah.
00:41:17
Speaker
The fucking doors man is great. At least I think it is. But essentially you go in and everybody's dead. And the way that the game forces you to walk around to this main room is you see there's like one guy in the room just kind of out of computer and everything else is dead around him, around the outside. Then you go in and he says like,
00:41:42
Speaker
Don't fucking test your luck. Yeah, actually what he says depends on when you are running the encounter because the encounter happens both in jackets play through and in bikers play through and jackets play through biker says you're dead mate and then attacks you and then In bikers play through he gives him a warning. He's just like get out of here or he'll be in trouble or something like that And then jacket attacks him
00:42:04
Speaker
Cause they both have their own perception. It's really cool. Also, I was going to say DeLorean, the way we know it's a DeLorean, it's because of the payday to mission where they introduced a jacket and you have to grab all the bags of money and load them into the DeLorean.
00:42:18
Speaker
I forgot about that in the Payday 2 context specifically. I was just basing it off of how the doors open. It's not so much like an angled crack as it kind of just goes, whoop. Yeah, that's a side thing though. That's definitely side tangent. But yeah, that's your boss fight, right?
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah. And it's, it's weird to have it in this game because nothing else is a boss fight. Yeah. There's like a guy who has like another, he has like three hits instead of one, but you realize pretty quick. It's because of like how fat he is. I'll shoot him again. Oh yeah. You're talking about like the big beefy bodyguard guys. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:00
Speaker
Well, when you initially rescue the girl, there's a guy who's like, all right, I'll have to take care of this guy. So he gets up and if he hits you once, just like a punches you, you're dead. Yeah. You just die. So you have to shoot him. Take his knife back. Then it's going to get to shoot him one more time. Yeah, it depends on the gun. He can like take a lot of little bullets, but the shotgun lays them out pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah. But like the engagement with biker is.
00:43:24
Speaker
There's like an actual like mechanic. Yeah, you have to wait. It's like Nintendo. You have to wait for them to do that one special move. It's like, oh, I see your weak spots exposed. Yeah. And then you have the finger in the butt or whatever. I'm not sure about that one. Yeah. You throw the bomb at the eye of the open. All right. Nintendo. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The finger with the.
00:43:46
Speaker
No, I think he like he makes two swipes at you every time completely invulnerable. You can't attack him at all in this Then he throws his knife for some reason and that's when you have to attack him when he's retrieving it He's like, oh shit. That's my knife after it that you can hit him with your melee weapon You have to do that. I think two or three times. Yeah, it's two. Yeah then he finally finally finishes them off and leaves but you find out later in the last chapter or the last part that biker was
00:44:14
Speaker
biker is actually a good investigator and he's trying to he's simultaneously taking the phone calls and killing the Russians and also trying to track down who is calling calling yeah um and jacket remembers killing him but that didn't happen he remembered that in a coma
00:44:35
Speaker
Biker actually figures it out in the end Kind of in a meta fourth wall breaking way because jacket has to select collect all the puzzle pieces from all the levels and then Biker has to have all of those puzzle pieces solved in the right spot when he reaches the end of his game like the final level and Then if you've solved the puzzle which spells out I was born in the USA
00:45:04
Speaker
Then biker gets the full story
00:45:06
Speaker
Oh, so if you don't do all the side content, you don't actually get the bonus chapter. Well, what happens is he finds the janitors at the end, which they show up like in all these different levels are kind of around. Um, and, uh, they work for 50 blessings. They are agents essentially. And if you don't have the puzzle solved biker gets down there and he's just like, what's going on? And they're like, Oh, you have no idea. And they just like laugh at him.
00:45:33
Speaker
They won't tell them anything. They're just like, now you're dumb. Can't figure it out. But if you did figure it out, then you get more backstory about what's actually happening. Then you can kill them or not kill them. Doesn't really matter. Nothing matters. Right. If you kill one of the janitors, though, the other one flips you off before you kill them, obviously. Yeah, not a sociopath. It's a cool story, though, and they tie a lot of it into the next one. So it's like,
00:46:04
Speaker
I'm surprised by how much storytelling actually happens in a game that's so impulsive. Yeah. And your main character does not speak. Girlfriend doesn't speak. Yeah. Beard speaks when you see him at like random stores. And then you have some of the nightmare hallucinate gen sequences. Um, that's really your only exposition. Auto, audially, audially. I was going to say visually.
00:46:32
Speaker
I guess visually too, but I mean, throughout the level, like the level changing to like show that the relationship with this girlfriend character is progressing.
00:46:44
Speaker
And I guess some of the interactions for how you view beard versus how you view Richter and your hallucinations. Trying to think what else, but yeah, they still do a surprising amount without explicitly saying, here's the plot. Yeah. It's more dark solsy in a way and that you have to be explicitly looking for it.
00:47:04
Speaker
There's like, um, one example is like you visit beard one time and things just get really weird toward the end. Not going to get in that, but, um, you visit beard and outside of his building, there's like a bunch of Russians and they're like beating to death somebody with a mask on a wolf mask. Um, jacket doesn't interfere. You can't interfere. You can't do anything other than go and talk to beard and leave. Um, but that fills in pieces of like, what's actually going on.
00:47:32
Speaker
It's just I didn't catch any of it when I was playing through because I was just playing the game and sort of paying attention Which I really appreciate I open your eyes sheeple exactly There's no sheep mask. Actually, that's that's the disappointing thing. I think I got up to Think Graham. No, no George on George George the monkey George has George's a Draft. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right George's his draft. I can't remember who the monkey is. Oh
00:48:01
Speaker
But I've not gotten monkey. It's on I'm gonna call him Carlin. It's not correct They all have like really cool perks none of them are like Tony's Tony's is definitely the best well I mean Don Juan is like fatal doors. Yeah, so if you like door check people they die right knock back That's I haven't used it mm-hmm. It's kind of cool the wolf one you start off with a knife. Yeah, I
00:48:25
Speaker
Which again, you can throw. Right. But it's not like Tony, where usually dogs, you have to have a melee weapon to fight them. Tony can punch them. That's another perk. They don't even stay. Tony can just punch everything. Like the mascot. Tony punches doors. Tony punches walls. Nobody can stop Tony's face.
00:48:46
Speaker
One of the the weirder ones though is the the monkey one where standing executions You'll rip their throat out and take their weapon. That's all the mass does gives you the ability to do that so I guess that's if you want to style on people because it doesn't give you an actual bonus and
00:49:03
Speaker
Actually, there's one that's the only one that's just straight up downside is it like puts a dark filter on the game, but it does not affect enemy sight lines. Burlap mask. I can't see. It just makes the game harder. Yeah, there's there's a lot of flavor there. A lot of cool stuff.
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm still. So from my experience, um, I played some, like when I went on steam sale, two years after it came out, it was like 2014, 2015 ish.
Gameplay Mechanics and Replay Value
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I did some, but I was like, I'm shit at this game. I'm not getting a whole lot out of it, but I'm glad that Jake's like, you don't play this. I'll fucking kill you. Right.
00:49:45
Speaker
And like getting back into it. And given how into the game I was, you were like, this could be an actual threat. I never hear Jake swear or threaten violence. This sounds legit. But going back, I'm actually appreciating it now. Grant, when I played like three days ago, I'm still like, Jake, I suck dick at this game. It's real bad.
00:50:03
Speaker
This you hated the game when you started playing initially. Yeah, it's like it's not as bad as FTL which I refused to play right natural on principle now Yeah, I definitely had that initially and had to come back
00:50:19
Speaker
I think that that's not an opinion you can just dismiss either. A lot of people just really dislike the game, which I think is absolutely fine. Like it's, it's not a pretty game. No. And it's, if you don't like the mechanics of it, there's no fucking tie-in now. You're like, it looks like shit plays like shit. Hey, thanks.
00:50:36
Speaker
Yeah, you can play the first level and if you're like, I don't like these mechanics, then just stop. Cause they just add to it, but keep that core through the entire game. This isn't like out of mini game, partway through sort of game.
00:50:51
Speaker
No, it's pretty much what it is, but it's good for what it is. Yeah. A lot. And there is just a lot of flavor there. Like my other experience with it has been on the payday two
Crossover Elements with Payday 2
00:51:03
Speaker
side. Yeah. When they had the hotline Miami DLC, Jake, I'm familiar. Fucking banana. Cause Jake is much more of a diehard fan than I am. Uh, Jake actually has the jacket jacket and your license plate reads potato.
00:51:21
Speaker
I'm not telling people my license plate but It was really cool to see like that silent character in pay to which is like all these badasses. Mm-hmm Doing covert optin. I don't want to say shooting the police in that exact right? Yeah. Yeah, but they're heisters. It's like the It's like the robbers from the old west. Yeah
00:51:47
Speaker
It's like living outside of the law but in like a video game context where it's like let's leave it here, right? Exactly. It's like going back and playing virtue a cop, but it's like virtue a robber Yeah, exactly what it is What's that one? Uh Back in the 80s when they had this anti-drug Arcade games where you're like right as a copy you're like shooting hobo dealers john tran stuff. Yeah
00:52:11
Speaker
Oh, I didn't know we made the friend of the show friend of some shows, I guess. But yeah, it's, I don't know. It's a, it's a fun experience and it's so absurd. I think that makes it easier to pallet things like the violence to go back to your original question. It's like, like in payday, you're shooting thousands of cops, which is less bad than shooting a single cop in a realistic context. It's like you're going out for the explicit thing of murder. It's you are trying to like.
00:52:41
Speaker
rob a place and steal jewelry, take hostages so the police do not attack you as quickly. Yeah. It's all hasty stuff. Sometimes combat breaks out and then you're killing ways of cops that come in to try and rescue the hostages and kill you and take back the things you've stolen. Right. But it's different.
00:53:01
Speaker
You gotta revisit the Payday 2 episode is what I'm getting from this. The audio from that one's so bad. It's really bad. That was an early one. Yeah, I don't even know if that's... It still is hosted somewhere, but don't listen to it. It's not worth it. No. But yeah, those are two games that live in an absurd, non-real space, so you can't treat them like they're real.
00:53:22
Speaker
Yeah, but it's cool that Jack, it was a DLC character. Oh, yeah. And because he is silent in the game, they actually gave him a quote unquote voice in Payday 2. Because you have to have call outs.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah. To say like, Hey, there's a cop, or if you need to like answer a page or saying, it's fine. We're all fine here. Thanks for checking in. Yeah. Yeah. They had it. So, uh, one of them was like, you were the recording system. It was like, thank you for reaching Dennaton enterprises, which is a nice joke. Cause Dennaton's the developer of holla in Miami. Uh, yeah, the voice recorder is pretty great.
00:54:00
Speaker
Anyways, that's Hotline Miami.
Final Reflections
00:54:03
Speaker
I probably never do an episode on the second one, so you guys will have to play that yourselves if you're interested in it and completing the story. I think if we ever did an episode on it, it would basically just be the story because we've already covered all the mechanics.
00:54:18
Speaker
Um, and I don't really assume the second one would not add too much in the way of mechanics. It doesn't. Yeah. Um, so we'll leave that one to you guys, but hopefully you enjoyed the episode and listening to one of my favorite games.
00:54:36
Speaker
core part of my character who i am what do i enjoy you know when i go outside um i don't see jake smile often but uh anytime this game comes up it's a big grin ear to ear that's not true i smile like all the time no he's a real pessimist how you doing tonight shut up all right as always thank you guys for listening and we'll see you in the next one have a good night take care