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S2 Ep65: Bioshock Infinite: Even Further
75 Plays6 years ago
Join Dave and Jake as they dive into a classic that and inspir- wait. Have we been here before? Why is my nose bleeding?
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Thoughts? Comments? Requests for new episodes? Feel free to email them in!
SoapstonePodcast@gmail.com
Like our podcast? Like our podcast! We'll post when new episodes are uploaded!
https://www.facebook.com/SoapstonePodcast/
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Transcript
Introduction to Soapstone Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Soapstone. Faithful, time for another night. If you're new to the show, welcome. If you've been down from the beginning, all I can say is thanks. Time to push the button. How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake. I'm joined by my co-host, as always, Dave. What
Food and Cooking Discussions
00:00:27
Speaker
you been eating lately? Dave? Hmm.
00:00:31
Speaker
Today with some Domino's pizza. Okay, because we have like a work meeting and It's cheap and it still tastes good. I'll be honest. Yeah, like I'm not putting up there with my number one pizza places But I've kind of missed Domino's. It's alright. It's kind of got a lot to it It's a very salty greasy thing which I've been missing in my life. Oh
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think most of the time now I go for a more like classic Italian like pan style Yeah, like a little bit thinner Nothing like deep dish because that that's like crazy to me
00:01:05
Speaker
I don't want fucking bread. Give me pizza. Like I'd really like Jules thin crust. Oh yeah. I have, it's been, uh, quite a spell probably like five or six months. Yes. Why didn't you bring me the real question? Say it once. I, I, I probably don't eat there as much as I should, honestly, given that it's literally within walking distance. I like, I just get two slices. I'm like, okay, I'm done. That's it.
00:01:33
Speaker
And also, um, I have been sousvéeing. Yes, that is correct. Yeah. You got the sousvée, uh, which is, allows you to steam products and water, maybe not steam boil in water boil. Would that be the correct term? Yeah. It's like the water doesn't really boil though. It just cook in hot water.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. The main thing of the sous-vay is it, or sous-v-day. Is that how it's at? Sous-v-day loca is really just to maintain the water temperature so you're not overcooking stuff.
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah, but then it cooks in the bag. This gives residual heat and then done. We're in very juicy meat I think like the only things I've ever really cooked in water would be like boiled eggs and Probably pastas shakes up. What should I do with these boiled eggs? Like no, let's cook them again Put it back in can never be really I
00:02:33
Speaker
But yeah, those, those two. Uh, so a entire device dedicated to cooking things in water is, it's interesting, but admittedly, admittedly you do more cooking than I do. I feel like I can say that means that that is correct. I reheated the Italian pizza. Everybody knows that a beep boop a microwave, Jake. Um, speaking of beep booping microwaves.
Exploring BioShock's Themes
00:03:04
Speaker
at one point in BioShock, which is a game we're still talking about, as one would expect given all of the lead up to us talking.
00:03:18
Speaker
Elizabeth learns the song to actually control Songbird at some point, which was a big deal. And they get to control him. And this climactic kind of conclusion leads up to the end of the game.
00:03:36
Speaker
Do you remember the notes too? Yeah, actually I didn't actually so I didn't think about this until before before before Don't be for before you sunk my battleship
00:03:55
Speaker
I didn't notice them until I was looking at them on a page. I was just like, oh, that's C-A-G, meaningless music notes. Oh, it's Cage, gotcha. It's a Nicholas Cage reference, obviously, for our listeners. You can appreciate that. There's national treasure in each and every one of you.
00:04:14
Speaker
And I think I probably skipped ahead like a bit here as far as plot was concerned. Like we left off Daisy had been, uh, brutally slain and yes, she got the old scissors from Elizabeth. Yeah. And the, uh, and the process of attempting to brutally slay a small boy founders founders child, which means he's like a white kid from one of the people who was upper class in Columbia.
00:04:40
Speaker
Specifically Jeremiah Fink, who was the guy who was extorting people for their cheap labor. Yeah. And try and generate a cycle to keep them in there working for cheap, not paying them actual money, paying them in like Fink bucks. Yeah. Just kind of control their whole environment. It's like, Hey, you're going to be here and work here. He was staying in the Jeremiah Mink. I don't know if that's a word for like wealth, but I know it's like clothing, I think.
00:05:09
Speaker
I saw your eyebrows. I saw what you're doing. So half credit. Yeah. Um, yeah. I, and I think something I didn't mention before there was a, uh, there's like a job board, um, in his area and, and, um, Columbia where people are like bidding on jobs. They're like, Hey, uh, we need a chimney sweep. And they're like, uh, five minutes, four minutes, three minutes. And then I was like, okay, any other, any other takers? And then the guy just runs off to complete his job in three minutes. Cause it's the only way they get employment.
00:05:40
Speaker
After some of the reality jumping shenanigans, you can look back at that job board and it's just like, kill the wit. Covering the entire thing. That's the only job that's available, is kill the wit. I will also like to apply for the kill the wit please. How long?
00:06:02
Speaker
You hate to be that first guy that's bidding on it though and you're just like the Aggressively sold one killed a wit and people like bit it down to three minutes and you're like, okay I got it and killed a wit in three minutes and then the next one goes up for auction and it only goes to like six minutes and it's still killed away and you're like, ah
00:06:22
Speaker
I don't know if I can actually do this in three. One person's like instantly sold. Oh man. But yeah, it's a big transformational moment for Elizabeth when she actually kills Daisy because she goes through this whole deal of she feels like a responsibility for the Vox Populi and helping them out.
00:06:49
Speaker
the idea that like Booker DeWitt and this reality has like helped out the the Vox Populi and like caused this uprising is like amazing to Elizabeth because she's like hey you can be good you can be idealistic um like look at this this symbol that you are and this reality uh why aren't you more like you you know
00:07:11
Speaker
Booker's just kind of like hanging back here He's like, yeah, I was gonna end poorly though Ever the optimist and It really does like it's this constant Conflict you're building towards toward the tail end of the game where like innocent people are dying back and forth and so I was gonna say I
00:07:36
Speaker
More so, I feel like she feels responsible because she's jumped between these tears in these worlds, these different realities.
Elizabeth's Moral Struggles
00:07:46
Speaker
So she feels like she has caused the death of those people and those realities that they've jumped to. Right. So like they went with the uprising and like Daisy doing her thing, kicking ass, right? Fighting the good fight. But at the same time, like all these people who, not necessarily all of them were bad,
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, died in the conflict, right? But she hasn't ever directly taken life until she feels the need to stop Daisy because Daisy has been killing people. And she fears that she's going to hurt the kid as well.
00:08:20
Speaker
I think she ruminates about that a little bit when you jump through some of these stairs. Nope, she never talks about it again. She never talks about it ever. You know what? I was fine with that back there. See ya. She asks, you know, am I making these alternate realities or are we visiting them? Yeah. And Booker's just like...
00:08:43
Speaker
And she's like, you know, thinking about life or death and whether she's creating an entire populations of people. And Booker's like, we're going to go here. I'm going to shoot some people. There's a bird. Yeah.
00:08:55
Speaker
Now, it's, she is the more reflective of the two. But what I like is that that's actually consistent with kind of how the plot's going. Like Booker is intentionally, I think, I don't want to call him just stupid, but he's dense and he's very focused on the task he's working on. He doesn't care about learning things. He doesn't care about curiosities. He just wants to accomplish his task. That's all he cares about.
00:09:26
Speaker
I would argue at least. And you know that is, bring us the girl, wipe away the debt. Yeah, he seems kind of blindly driven by the information he's been fed and circumstance. He's like, I don't know too much about that science shit, but here's what I gotta do, or here's what I know, here's what I gotta do. Yeah. He's working with the black box that he has.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like the game actually, they wouldn't need to necessarily justify it, but they get a lot of points in my book for justifying his kind of his ignorance there or his drive for ignorance. And it really comes to a head when you discover the truth behind Comstock. Like you finally get up to his blimp that you're there with Elizabeth. Like at this point, she's discovered
00:10:22
Speaker
that there's more going on. Comstock's like taunting you as you're making your way up with all of these foreboding messages. He's just like, you'll never win. And all of this nonsense, I don't remember exactly all of his phrases, but in retrospect, they, they mean a lot more. Well, yeah, the whole thing is.
00:10:43
Speaker
It's been building up to comstock's been manipulating elizabeth. You know that it's Not actually his kid. Mm-hmm But some kid that he got yeah, and you're like what the fuck? What is going on? There's a lot of confusion stuff around it and obviously you've been blaming him for sending people to kill you Yeah, and you know being a total dick and calling you the false prophet Mm-hmm or false shepherd. Yeah
00:11:10
Speaker
And all this stuff, yeah, steal the lamb. Yeah. And, uh, like the, you learned the lutest twins are actually, um, through some, uh, of oxy phones, you learned that the test twins are actually the same person across two different realities. They use the, this machine. Uh, there's a, there's a line that, um, um, Rosalind says that's like only one chromosome separates us.
00:11:35
Speaker
So she cares deeply for her brother who is herself from a different reality.
00:11:44
Speaker
Whoa. Whoa. That was loud. Virus protection. Jake, get on that. Got to protect the podcast. But yeah, they created this device that can reach across to terrors, Comcast. Comcast. Comcast used this device. I mean, also pretty evil. So well played, sir. Well played. Comstock.
00:12:06
Speaker
Use the device to like see some of these prophecies by Gazing into alternate realities and that aged him artificially it also made him sterile which is like the tell that Elizabeth isn't truly a
00:12:23
Speaker
Yeah, his daughter and you learned that Comstock's wife the first lady Was not entirely happy with this whole arrangement She thought that Comstock was having an affair with Rosalind which is like hilarious If you know their characters because Rosalind's just does not care Like about that at all. She's completely absurdist. I
00:12:47
Speaker
She's the pure science trope. Yeah, but she's like I will study and analyze everything and she's very like Removed from the rest of civilization. Yeah, like oh you can go about your buying bread and milk I will study the sciences. She's like a GLaDOS for Yes, for Bioshock very smart, but very focused on her research. Yeah
00:13:10
Speaker
She's like sorry fuck somebody. No, I got shit That would that would cut in on science time I can't have that but so so ultimately this was the the big revelation is that There's there's more going on here and so when Elizabeth
00:13:32
Speaker
Uh, is, is this resolved at the very end or is this, I'm
Booker's Violent Path
00:13:38
Speaker
trying to remember if you learn this at the very end or if you learn this around the time of the test is, um, that where Elizabeth comes from.
00:13:46
Speaker
I think you learn it a little bit from the whole mom ghost thing. Yeah. It's all kind of tied in there. Then you learn about the test is a little bit later and then you get to comma stock proper. Gotcha. And he has this nice like garden, like with a little a bird.
00:14:08
Speaker
A bird bath bird bath. Yeah, I was gonna say a bird water a bird feeder a bird water Water the birds stream birds And you get there with Elizabeth and Elizabeth wants answers, yeah and Comstock's just kind of like high and mighty. He still feels like he's in control Everything's still going according to like his plan. You also learned that he at some point he has cancer He's he's going to die
00:14:36
Speaker
What a what an evil person cop out. Yeah, but i'm dying. We don't care. We hate you. Stop it But uh kind of kind of irrationally at this point. Um, so you you get up to comstock and he's just like Elizabeth a child. Yeah, like he thinks like the lamb has come home. Yeah, finally she's like I asked booker about your finger because she like wears a thimble Yeah, like through the entire game
00:15:02
Speaker
And well, it's like it's like a pinky. It's a smaller pink. I wouldn't say a stub Yeah, but that's kind of like end capped with a thimble. Yeah style. Yeah, you know, sometimes just got a thimble, you know, Columbia style and Elizabeth wants to ask him like a bunch of questions and Booker gets really really angry kind of it's sort of out of nowhere and it's well
00:15:28
Speaker
He starts to go into his full rant mode about how she will like assume her
00:15:37
Speaker
throne, et cetera, et cetera. And he kind of grabs her wrist and she starts to pull back because she's taken aback and she's being grabbed by this guy who has been controlling her. And Booker very defensively goes up within like a half second, grabs Comstock's face and slams it in the side of the bird bath.
00:15:59
Speaker
Well, I think he starts to put his face under the water first. Yeah, and then starts like kind of like bashing it in repeatedly until The guy's skulls kind of caved in. Yeah, it's like this very Dramatic violence in comparison to I mean everything else is still violent. It is pretty violent Yeah, but but in the same way that when you kill people throughout the game you get like the headshots they have like the little
00:16:24
Speaker
It's not pizzicato, but like the the execution noise on the violin. Yeah, they have like these very sharp string noises as you are Beating him to death. Yeah kind of American history X style, but without feet. Yeah Elizabeth is like begging Booker to stop. Yeah during all of this too, but Comstock had been like asking these questions trying to like Who knows what he was trying to accomplish really?
00:16:50
Speaker
booker you're bleeding yeah so after after he dies that's that's what elizabeth points out like booker here you you killed him you're bleeding you put your hand up and you see a little bit of blood which has happened several times throughout the game previously yeah when you jump rifts and in reality yeah or um at certain events when uh booker's discovering things um kind of recalling something
00:17:18
Speaker
Yeah, but you'd also see this happen. I think it was a showcase of once or twice throughout the game. Yeah. Where other people were that way when you first jumped riffs and you're like, I had killed these people previously. Yeah. And she's like, Oh, they remember their deaths. Yeah. This is foreshadowing for the end game. But like little things like that. Ooh, I was filled with so much, um,
00:17:42
Speaker
Shadow. Wonder, excitement, and shadow, the ultimate life form. Right. But enough of my fanfic, it was just really cool as you start to like put these pieces together. Yeah. That if you're, I'm not, as I've said many times, I'm not the type of person to go through a game and like analyze everything or a show. I just kind of live in the moment. Like, this is really cool. If I notice an obvious trope, I'll try and call it, but I did not call anything here.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, no, this is a lot of games. I think we might talk to foreshadowing a little bit. A lot of games will give you little tiny hints, but there's no real way you could put it together. There's enough pieces in Infinite that if you were really paying attention, if you really listened to all the Voxophones,
00:18:29
Speaker
You could actually guess what's going on by the end of it, which I give them full credit for. That's, that's risky. Cause if you blow the surprise for your player base and then the ending becomes predictable, you've missed out on kind of the, the Bioshock twist as it were.
00:18:49
Speaker
So at this point, we now just want to destroy the siphon, which is blocking Elizabeth from being her true self and call it a day. Yeah. So this goes into a very long, but pretty epic and scale battle sequence where you're zooming around zip lines, murdering people, using guns, but most importantly, with that controlling song word thing you learned from earlier,
00:19:20
Speaker
You get to essentially just control him and you kind of point there like hey fuck that shit up yeah, and then yeah, he's kind of the the The ultimate weapon for this too because they send like airships and stuff at you Yeah, and he just the very well animated he just like runs at it starts like tearing at it with his claws rips it out of this guy and
00:19:41
Speaker
He's the only way you can defeat some of these There's like barges that like you could take out on your own You could shoot the people on them, but then there's full-on like zeppelins. You absolutely have to use them for And it's really cool. I also played the through the game on easy the second time because I want to just clearance I can do the 1912 mode, you know some other time I think I've attempted that in the past
00:20:05
Speaker
but This last one I still took some damage like to the to the the main ship Like it's there's a lot of enemies. There's a lot of fighting and my accuracy is not the best I know you can use bigger traps. Mm-hmm So if you set up like a crowstorm or the firestorm, yeah, and then have it cascade onto other enemies I'm like, all right, that'll cover some stuff. I
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah, but it felt like I was constantly switching weapons, too Yeah, because I'd be using my pistol at range and i'm like, all right, we need a new gun So i'd be like elizabeth summon this in she's like here And then I'd take a carbine. Yeah carbine carbine. I think a carabiner. Yeah, and I would uh
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah, that was probably my favorite weapon. Actually, I got a lot of value out of that. It's like there's a sniper rifle, but it's like it zooms in too much. Just give me the iron sights. Yeah, exactly. You talked about like making traps out of some of the the vigors there. The one that carried me a lot through this play through and.
00:21:08
Speaker
I don't have to be carried that hard on easy. You know, I'll make that claim. But I think my first playthrough as well was the murder of crows you mentioned. It's trap form, you can get an upgrade, which just takes money. So you're just like money. Elizabeth gives me infinite, infinite amounts of that. Bioshock infinite amounts. Hey.
00:21:28
Speaker
And basically, it makes the upgrade. So if an enemy dies while they're affected by this crow damage over time, they create a new trap that the crows will spawn from. So you can just make like this perpetual crow death machine of crow traps all over the place. The issue is in this final encounter, they drop a lot of Patriots at you.
00:21:51
Speaker
which is these like abraham or no george washington with a chain gun basically yeah but he's more of like a five nights at freddy's type of animatronics yeah and he always has like this very tinny voice and he's making these not political quotes but these uh we will fight for liberty and other things yeah slightly distorted things are like kind of um superior race things america first you know things like that
00:22:19
Speaker
Um, but he has like these gears exposing him on the back like off out of his back and you have to shoot the gear or you don't have to but you do Significantly if you shoot those gears and he's immune to crows. So like what am I gonna do? What's man to do? You just gotta install the game. Yeah, and that's what I did right then and that's that's all I can contribute to the podcast No, or he just points longer to him like yeah Kill the Patriots slams into the ship you're on. Yeah
00:22:48
Speaker
No, it's it's pretty pretty effective though. This is kind of your That the climax of the game as far as the action is concerned Yeah, and it actually goes is drawn out a little bit for my tastes. Yeah, I'm like I say it felt Long because other things were like skirmishes. This is like hold the point. Yeah
00:23:08
Speaker
But at the same time, if you're controlling song word to like take out fucking airships. Yeah. Full, full ass blimps. You know, like a nice big blimp. Yeah. People can't see the gesture, unfortunately.
00:23:24
Speaker
But like you want it to be epic to a degree. You don't want to have the height of action kind of be over in like 30 seconds. Yeah. But at the same time, there is a point in things like that where it just feels too drawn out and you're like, I'm just killing ways of people. And maybe that's what you want to drive home. Yeah. But from a gamer enjoyment standpoint, it just, it drones on a little bit compared to the rest of the game.
00:23:52
Speaker
Like Bioshock has good action and this is your home run sequence where you get to use all those abilities you've invested like money on throughout the game, learn to use everything like that. Your firearms, all of that. I get that. I fully get that. And your guns. Yeah. And the guns. Yeah. Hey. Um, but, uh, at the same time, it's like, it's, is that really the focus of Bioshock? No, I feel like the storytelling really.
00:24:18
Speaker
There is action obviously, but the storytelling takes point for me, especially in infinite. Um, and yeah, it just, it's a little bit longer and I think they must've realized that it's like they do focus testing. They know how long people enjoy fights. And I think they normally nail that with a skirmish skirmishes, like you mentioned. Um, but this is just a prolonged slog. Like it's meant to drain you of your resources. You're defending a health bar.
00:24:45
Speaker
It does a lot of things that are risky as far as game design. But it's the final fight. So when it's done, you're good.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel like you want to have some accomplishment outside of a cinematic where you murdered the villain, you know? Yeah, for sure. There's, there's a little bit more to it, some would say. So then what happens after this epic fight? Is it through the Creditors role? I forget. It's one of my favorite games, right? Could you remind me of what happens? Well, Dave, um, just as a quick refresher.
00:25:20
Speaker
After you've successfully defended the ship you're on, you get to command Songbird yourself. So previously, Elizabeth had played C-A-G-E to gain control of it. This time Booker's like, it's my turn and takes the musical instrument and pretends like you can play it.
00:25:36
Speaker
and actually commands Songbird to destroy the sound, which is the giant siphon, the monument with the siphons in it. And there's basically this superpower unlock awakening for Elizabeth, because as long as she's in Columbia, the siphon is affecting her.
00:25:55
Speaker
There's kind of a passive state and an active state for the siphon where if she's like chained to a table and they're just like Actively drawing out her energy. She can't open tears at all. But when she's in Colombia, she's affected by the siphon and she actually This hearkens back to what something she says about when she was a little girl. She could
Elizabeth's Powers and Rapture
00:26:15
Speaker
open tears at will they weren't like I
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah, she didn't see a tear and she's like, oh here she could just make them fully do it. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, in a moment she just gains all of that power back.
00:26:26
Speaker
Which is actually really convenient because with the tower destroyed, and I think your whistle breaks too, basically you lose control of Songbird. And he's like, what was I doing? Oh, I was protecting Elizabeth! So he sees you, and he just full in badass bird kind of Storm Eagle mode, dive bombs at you.
00:26:48
Speaker
And he's like, oh, that was a bath because he can't fucking shoot Songbird as we've tried before many times. So he needs her to open a tear. And so far she's been only to open or see other tears in Columbia. But now that she can open tears for wherever, she opens a tear and then you're, and that's the sound effect of the game.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah, it was really low quality. I know they do the rest of it. Their budget was focused on that long ass fight We should we should remark just for the listeners that at this point it's actually in sketch mode It's just like a two-dimensional comic and they're storyboarding the rest of the game Bible buffet So then low-res, um, yeah, where you go though, where's it take you?
00:27:34
Speaker
So immediately you see that you are underwater and you see that like Songbird who is kind of like reaching out for you.
00:27:43
Speaker
From the pressure of the water. Yeah, his eyes starts to like crack and stuff and he's in pain and she kind of goes up the glass and kind of Comforts him in his last moments. Yeah, animal handling check, right? Yeah, you're gonna be okay. He's not actually gonna be okay It's a song where it like dies and you're kind of there with her like, oh that was that was some shit. Mm-hmm
00:28:07
Speaker
But then as you kind of move away from the glass, cause you're inside of glass from the ocean, you turn around, you're like, uh, I'm in fucking rapture. Yeah. And then, uh, then it just starts an exe for the first game. Just start over again.
00:28:26
Speaker
No, but it's a it's it's the location at the beginning of Bioshock one with the first gather you came out with the bathysphere. Mm-hmm There's the the balcony that you you fall off and whatnot And it's not in its destroyed state yet, which is actually interesting. I noticed that on this playthrough I was like, yeah, this is all like still pretty pristine And there's a reason for it. Yeah, what's that reason? Yeah, we'll get there. Okay, that's fine
00:28:55
Speaker
But yeah, the main thing is I never expected to go back to Rapture. Cause obviously there's a decent amount of time between Bioshock 1 and Bioshock Infinite. But Bioshock 1 obviously had like amazing aesthetic, it's highly rated, et cetera, et cetera. So it's cool that they went back, but at the same time, a lot of people were like, if you could have gone fucking anywhere, why did you go back to the same place?
00:29:19
Speaker
But people would know if they played Bioshock 2 that you always go back to Ramshank. It's all there. That's where the content is. Here we go again. Yeah, just the St. Andreas meme. CJ. Just get on the train. Chase the train, whatever.
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a really cool moment for me. I wasn't sure at this point I had no idea where the game was going in my first playthrough. Seriously. I was like, so like the game just ended as far as stuff and now you brought me back here? Yeah.
00:29:56
Speaker
She takes you to a bathysphere. Yeah, because she has all of her powers. She can see behind all the doors. She's essentially omniscient. Yeah, and she starts to lead you essentially through some of the initial parts of Bioshock 1. Like in reverse though.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yeah, and she's like there's always a man. There's always a lighthouse as you're going through walking along these lighthouses and docks you see other versions of Elizabeth and you yeah doing the same actions and you're like I don't know what happens, but this game got weird So it's like the opposite of Bioshock one you go up the bathysphere and then you exit yeah, you come out and you're like
00:30:38
Speaker
There's a lot of them. Like, as far as the eye can see, just lighthouses and lighthouses. And then you swim under the ocean, you reassemble the plane, right? Yeah. It's really just the VHS tape in reverse. Yeah. That's a reference for the older crowd. I listened. Yeah, it's really cool. See your alternate reality selves. And Booker's just like, why? Yeah. He's reaching a stupid comatose at this point.
00:31:07
Speaker
and i as the player my first playthrough is also in that boat uh yeah there is they're talking about some kind of fate and uh like choices they make and booker's like no one tells me where to go and elizabeth says booker you've already been and he goes like but yeah there this is the the multiverse theory it's all happening
00:31:33
Speaker
I mean, it's actually canon according to Bioshock. And boy, do I look up wikis. I've never even played this game. But you get to pick which lighthouse you go through. I don't think it matters. No. But you can like run around and pick. It's all the same. You essentially go back and
00:31:53
Speaker
But each door leads to wherever the fuck it wants. But the final door you go through leads you to a very Columbia-esque pool of water. You have some parishioners and you essentially go up to a baptismal and Elizabeth's there with you and he's like,
00:32:17
Speaker
Why are we here? Yeah. And basically she explains like in some universes, you get baptized and other ones you don't. And the ones you don't, you are Booker DeWitt, a kind of muscle man for the Pinkertons. Yeah. And this was your life. And these are the actions you chose, but in others you get baptized and become Zachary Comstock.
00:32:43
Speaker
It's a really cool scene too. And the lead up to this, Booker kind of brings this upon himself because he's just like, once he learns about this multiverse thing, he's like, no, she's like, there's other com stocks out there. And he's like, okay, there's only one way to end this. Like we go back to when he was born and we smother the, smother the expletive.
00:33:03
Speaker
And she's just like, you know, she doesn't seem super surprised at this from Booker, but she goes along with his wishes, you know, and there's, there's the scene where you go before the priest and.
00:33:20
Speaker
They all there's multiple versions of Elizabeth actually that all appear around you and they all Kind of baptize you and hold you under as you drowned and like the screen fades Yeah, and there was a I actually remember the line that led up to it too because it
00:33:37
Speaker
Booker is trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah. Well, this is all happening and they're just like well the first Elizabeth grabs your arm is like He's Booker DeWitt and the second Elizabeth grabs your arm is like he's Zachary Comstock and Booker just kind of with the resignation in his voice says no I'm both. Yeah, and then they they baptized him hardcore
00:34:01
Speaker
I get I actually just got like goosebumps or like reciting those lines because I got I really do like that but the thing I thought was most impactful for me was as you're going through this walk and Kind of she's explaining the whole multiverse plot and other stuff. Yeah You also learn about Comstock and Elizabeth and the baby. Mm-hmm. Yeah because essentially
00:34:31
Speaker
you sell Anna off to Comstock to repay your debts.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Which is the initial give us the girl and wipe away the debt because you had a cute accrued debt from a gambling and drinking. Um, and so in your disheveled drunken state, you agree to this. And then as you start to sober up, you become very regretful. You go back and you're trying to fight through the tear to kind of keep Anna on your side. Yeah. So they're using the machine in this case to open the tear. Yes.
00:35:04
Speaker
And it's really dramatic because it's like Comstock on one side of a tear with Lutessa's you on the other is screaming like you're not taking my daughter. Yeah, not taking my daughter, which I don't have kids, but I imagine you get the paternal rush. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would fuck some shit off for somebody who I cared about. Yeah. But as you.
00:35:25
Speaker
eventually let go as the tear closes. Her pinky gets caught and is left in your world. But the rest of her goes to the other world.
00:35:36
Speaker
So you're fucking Elizabeth's dad. And you are Comstock. Right. Well, you're not doing that to Elizabeth's dad. Yes. Well, maybe it's not clear, really. But you are the father. Really? Just check the wiki for Westworld season two when you get the chance. It all makes sense. But that whole thing for me, I was just like, oh my god. Yeah. And that's where her powers come from.
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, but you also You gave her up but you also stole her. So yeah in both versions of worlds You were a shitty parent. Yep, you steal her from yourself Yeah, yeah because comstock and the other reality at this point knows he's sterile. He's tried to have a kid um, and he has these these visions of elizabeth destroying the world baptizing the mountains of men in fire and uh with my
00:36:35
Speaker
That's not possible if he's sterile, so he makes a deal to acquire his own kid. Her pinky is stuck in one reality, she's stuck in the other, so the universe just kind of squints a bit and puts on its spectacles and is just like, is this how it's supposed to be?
00:36:53
Speaker
I don't know, just give her superpowers, I guess. And so that's how she gets the ability to make terrors. Yeah. Ultimately, like Comstock is a douchebag, but he's a very calm douchebag. Yeah. Booker is a douchebag, but he's a very angry douchebag. Prone to violent tendencies.
00:37:11
Speaker
Like, Comstock eventually attempts to kill the Lutess twins to cover every... Well, first, he kills his wife because she's not actually going along with this whole adoption. Yeah, and he doesn't need her. He's like, I'll be a better Mars situation if I'm a single dad. Yeah. And he can use her as an image in her death because he can shape the narrative. He's very manipulative. Goes to kill the Lutesses using the machine and accidentally makes them quantum.
00:37:42
Speaker
So that's why they're all over the place and they jump to and fro. And the Lutesses are just like, they think about running a couple seasons of Doctor Who and ultimately the lad, Robert Lutess.
00:38:00
Speaker
Decides that he's he's bothered by this he's bothered by their part in the whole the whole shebang. Yeah led to this And it bothers him that like he you know sees Booker Booker's face, you know taking like attempting to bring his daughter back like save his daughter and failing yeah, so Rosalind doesn't particularly care. She's about the science but He basically gives Robert gives her an ultimatum. He's just like hey
00:38:30
Speaker
Either we go back and we help him or I'm leaving and she really, she loves her brother. So like she loves science and brother. Those are the two things. Um, so they resolve to, to, uh, give Booker a chance, uh, or a lot of chances as it turns out.
00:38:48
Speaker
So as you notice, they kind of guide the whole narrative of the story. Um, starting from like the number 77 on the baseball at the lottery. But also if you look before the lottery, when you flip the coin for heads or tails, and then you see all those tally marks, those were all different versions of you doing the same thing and making those choices. And maybe you went one way and maybe you went another.
00:39:17
Speaker
Yeah, and they explained the whole bring us the girl wipe away the debt line coming back here. And then when Booker is brought to this reality, to Colin Stock's reality, his mind basically breaks and has to reform itself. And that's the quote at the beginning of the game that we referenced in the first episode.
00:39:38
Speaker
Whereas like if a man did not have memories, his mind would create them, uh, paraphrased. And that's what happens. It's like, you remember that you remember yelling or you remember hearing from Robert Lutess, um, bring us the girl and wipe away the debt and your mind incorporates that into what you're here to do. Right. And so they're just like, I need to get the girl.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, just to wipe away my debts. Yeah. And they're just like, well, if that's what he wants to believe, sure, whatever. And they just kind of construct the sides of the narrative, shore it up and let you run with it. Because as long as that you accomplish the goal in the end, which is getting the girl, there really is no debt, you know? Yeah, you already paid that with the other kid. Yeah. There's a cool kind of mechanic where you can't lose in BioShock Infinite. Just like you can't really lose in BioShock.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Actually, they have divided chambers in Bioshock and invite Bioshock infinite. Like if you die, um, it puts you in front of a door and it's at your back. Yeah. At your agency. Yeah. And you kind of push through the door back into.
00:40:45
Speaker
Skirmish or wherever you're at. Yeah in Columbia and it's kind of just the abbreviated Booker catching up to where he was my understanding at least is Every time that you would lose in that situation every time you die. They actually go through the entire sequence again But you just kind of remember stepping through the store back into it. It's there's a lot going on It's multiverse theory who knows
00:41:10
Speaker
But at this point I was like this game's fucking heavy Yeah, but I really liked where they went with it because I felt so tied to the characters like I had the paternal instinct As Booker did because they kind of make you to rely on Elizabeth and she's a likable character Yeah, and you have this like dynamic throughout the game and
Booker's Character Development
00:41:32
Speaker
So I cared when things happened. I was like, don't hurt a little. And when he's bashed his head, I was like, yeah. But sometimes this seems a little bit abrupt and violent. But at the same time, the good guys are winning. And that's him covering, whenever he starts to realize, that's when he bleeds. And in this last case, it's because he killed his alternate reality self. But it's his mind rejecting the truth.
00:41:59
Speaker
And so they try to form as a reality like that. That doesn't make sense. It doesn't compute this. This makes sense. Yeah. So he reacts in violence to protect himself. Um, and his, uh, Elizabeth's name from his reality is Anna. And that's why he has marked on his hand a D D for Anna DeWitt. Yeah. And he carved it in. So he wouldn't forget because he felt so regretful. And when it's like depression after he gave up his kid. Yeah.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah, this was this was the defining kind of turning moment in his life I just proved useful once he was through in Comstock's reality as another piece of the narrative they could work around. Yeah It's really freaking cool. There is there's this it doesn't matter like I
00:42:46
Speaker
It's honestly an awesome narrative start to finish. And like I was saying, Bioshock's great with the foreshadowing. They're great with the like, would you kindly, spoilers for Bioshock 1, like they're great with setting up the foreshadowing here. But I actually like how they did it in infinite and more than Bioshock 1. Bioshock 1 was like, here's a phrase and maybe if you notice the repetition,
00:43:08
Speaker
But the thing is, you're just like, oh, it's a turn of phrase. Yeah. It's more out of like left field. It doesn't give you as much in the way of clues. Exactly. Until late, late.
00:43:17
Speaker
This one this one stays true to its its own narrative. And if you happen to guess it by the end, then good on you. And I think that the revelation is kind of so verbose and like well described in the end. It's an it's an extended epilogue, actually, it's like it takes several minutes to go through actually finishing the game.
00:43:40
Speaker
Several. It's like 20 minutes. Yeah. It's a good several. This is like the major end cap to the game. So they do it justice in my opinion. I feel like even if you had guessed what it was, you would probably still feel a sense of pride and accomplishment as though you had spent money on microtransactions, um, being vindicated at least at the end. Um, it's really freaking good. There's a way, there's a reason, as we said in the previous episode, Dave modifies his body and reaction to the emotional feelings he gets about this game.
00:44:11
Speaker
I have one Bioshock tattoo currently. I would like more diversity in my tattoos, so I'm trying not to double up on games. Pick it up on Steam, $7.00. It's ridiculously good. Going back is much more analytical, but the first time I played this game, it's like you stop, you take off the headset, you go outside and you're like,
00:44:33
Speaker
Life can't be this good. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like everything else kind of pales in comparison because I was so swept up in the moment. Yeah. And like you're saying Bioshock one's ending is more of a, Oh, uh-huh. Oh, that's some shit. But the near ending, the ending's kind of like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. But the thing is like also with the near endings push for near, not actually, but I do feel much more of an emotional attachment where I was like,
00:45:03
Speaker
You know, where you kind of have like the blankets pulled up and you're like, you have your fingers up on your lip. Check. Oh my God. I meant near like any AR. Oh, like, cause there was the revelation with Andrew Ryan and all of that. And then there's the actual ending with the fight and people are like, why is this? Yeah. It's like, what is this a fucking field? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. But it just felt much more.
00:45:26
Speaker
Involve like end of series type thing. Yeah, they actually learned from their mistake. I think in in Bioshock one and Two to an accent to as well. I will do the Rude to the maturity. Yeah, and then Then we wrap a meat of story. Yeah, then we put a bow on it and that's much more satisfying than like all of that Infinite's infinite's really good. I would say good at it. I have a stop Those jokes are bad. Sorry
00:45:56
Speaker
But yeah, that's about all we got for Infinite. So as always, I'd like to thank you guys for listening to the podcast. You can reach out to us on Gmail at soapstonepodcast.gmail.com, send in your ideas for new episodes. We love to hear them. Or join the discussion on Facebook at facebook.com slash soapstonepodcast.
Podcast Closing and Listener Engagement
00:46:15
Speaker
And until next time, we'll see you in the next one. Have a good night.
00:46:30
Speaker
you
00:46:48
Speaker
Just kidding. Did you think we're going to go back to Bioshock 1 and Rapture and then just like end it there? That's what I thought. Ken Levine's like, hey, made some DLC. And younger me was like, what the fuck? What is DLC? Does this one have horse armor? Because I only buy DLC that has horse armor.
00:47:08
Speaker
As long as it's not free horse armor, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, nobody wants free horse armor. What am I, poor? I mean, you're not, right? No, no, David, make up plenty money.
00:47:21
Speaker
Oh cool. I was worried that I was going to have to kick you out. Anywho, so we are back in Rapture and we are yet again Booker DeWitt. We are in our detective agency. We're coughing up some booze as we awake from a drunken nap. Yeah. In Spanish it would be a Booker of wit.
00:47:45
Speaker
That's
New Storyline: Booker as Detective
00:47:46
Speaker
wholesome laughs So we're minding our own business, you know, but this this Dame this femme fatale walks in and He's like, hey, we're closed. She's like doesn't look like you can afford to not work. Mm-hmm She's implying that we're to shovel. We don't have our shit together. Right, which is fair, right? You open coughing like that's not a sign of propriety If you have asthma, you're fucked
00:48:12
Speaker
You're pretty much always a detective if you have asthma. That's your one career path. I gotta look for clues.
00:48:24
Speaker
So yeah, um, she comes in and she essentially offers you a job to, Hey, I need you to look for this girl. And you're like, this girl is dead. Like, um, rapture and little kids, like they're, they're far for goods. We know about little sisters and everything. Right. Um, she's like, how do you know this, this kid's dead book is like, I killed credits roll.
00:48:50
Speaker
Um, but essentially you go on this mission with her for the DLC, looking for this little girl named Sally, who we believe is taken for the purposes of being farmed as a little sister. Um, but as we go through, we have this again, dynamic with Elizabeth, but she's older and different. She's in the.
00:49:16
Speaker
the rapture style. Like she has that 1930s-esque thing that everybody does. Covered in slime. The rapture style. Sliming glitter. Man, those are some good parties.
00:49:32
Speaker
No, she also has a much more kind of you mentioned this in the femme fatale take but like that is not Elizabeth an infinite not like she's curious discovering about the world This is an Elizabeth that has seen some stuff like she is yeah, she's a harder character serious. Yeah, I
00:49:54
Speaker
But as we're going through we kind of realize she doesn't know Entirely about the world of rapture. Mm-hmm, which seems kind of weird because it seems like she should be in the know, right? She's all about doors. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And what's behind them? But at this point a lot But at this point
00:50:14
Speaker
We don't exactly know why we're here because at the end of infinite Um, it was kind of implied that elizabeth Killed or erased all versions of booker and comstock. Yeah with that symbolic multiple people drowning him type thing
00:50:31
Speaker
Across timelines. Yeah. Yeah. So we don't really know what's up here. But again, we're like, all right, I guess I got to look for more girls, as is the Booker DeWitt way. Right. So you kind of go through this tour of World of Rapture. But like you said, at the end of Infinite, it wasn't so beaten to shit. And as we're exploring through Rapture with Elizabeth, it is kind of at the height of its existence.
00:51:00
Speaker
Like nobody is fully spliced out. Right. Society is fairly normal. Plasmids are being used. Recreationally. Yeah. I think it was a lot of drugs. Yeah. They show that at the intro too, right? Like you light her cigarette with an incinerate on your fingers. That was really cool because previously you only knew figures, but now you're like, oh shit, plasmids? Yeah.
00:51:25
Speaker
very similar as we know um it kind of makes it strikes truth to the uh the the demonstrations for all the like the plasmids and the vigors and things you always come in when stuff's gone to crap and you're like oh these are all weapons but the just the descriptions are like for household use you can light fire and levitate or even like the bees in bioshock one where it's like
00:51:49
Speaker
Is someone being a nuisance? Sting them with bees! With bees! Doctor Bees!
00:51:58
Speaker
But yeah, it's, uh, pretty much a working together quest and you're trying to figure some stuff out, but you have some back and forth, but you get the sense that this, like you said, this Elizabeth has seen some shit and you realize that this is Elizabeth post the events of Bioshock infinite. Okay. Does she, does she help you out in similar ways to, um, how she did in, so you don't actually get.
00:52:23
Speaker
I think there's like one or two times you might get like some ammo. Yeah, or health But comparatively it is very limited throughout the whole game. You don't have much in the way of resources You're really scrounging her bullets. Maybe if you had better aim than I did that's not the case She's not like opening rifts to the army surplus store. No, there are no rifts She's finding things. Yeah
00:52:49
Speaker
So as you're going through this, uh, scavenger hunt, you do come across an old familiar face. Uh, you have to get into Sandra Cohen's party to ask him for information. Cause he's a shady fucking sort, right? The protagonist of Bioshock one. Essentially, or most interesting character. Um, so you get to go down into his.
00:53:14
Speaker
art debut, art exhibit. Yeah. Where essentially he's has these like very dark, creepy, but full of life and death paintings. And he's painting a couple who are dancing with like a sun and moon mask and like their finest garb. But they're also hooked up to these giant electrical cables. And when he feels that they're not respecting his muse,
00:53:39
Speaker
He kills them and kind of just strings them up. Oh, geez. Um, so Cohen was kind of losing it before the, before everything went, yeah, he's been a crazy Salvador Lee savant slash sociopath for a while. But that makes his character really cool and interesting. Um,
00:53:58
Speaker
And he hasn't died. I'm not going to spoil the whole thing. Just check it out. But we're here to show the Bioshock Infinite deals. Ken Levine needs. Please call the number on the screen. Friend of the show, Ken Levine. Needs money.
00:54:15
Speaker
His paypal is don't share ken levene's paypal right they might try and take his money I'd like to request money. I can't deny that shit. It's like the uh, the on your honor system from bioshock infinite where there's a little tray and supplies and you can like take supplies and you're supposed to leave money or you could just take the money too, right as everyone did Yeah, that's gonna be not the best system But for your library's work figure that shit out. Yeah
00:54:46
Speaker
So you continue your scavenger hunt, etc, etc, but essentially you do end up finding the girl And you have to kind of close because she is part little sister at this point So she's kind of climbing in vents and stuff going under the process. She's got the sea slug
00:55:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, so you're kind of closing all these other vents to like kind of four shot one vent And she's like, well, let's essentially crank up the heat So we four shot the one thing and he's like that sounds kind of awful. Let's not Mm-hmm. She's like, do you have any other ideas and he's like on second thought let's do that. Okay, so at the same time you have these Thugs or splicers who were like that little girl has some Adam
00:55:30
Speaker
Want the little girl, right? So you're fighting them off and you end up kind of trying like pull her out of the thing. Mm-hmm But essentially you start having some calm stock isms in the way you're approaching the situation. Yeah, and then She's kind of like says
00:55:50
Speaker
Like, oh, this is what I expected of you. Right. Elizabeth's watching you at this point. Yeah. Seeing what you do. So basically this whole thing is one of the instances of Elizabeth going to evaluate whether this version of you is more like Booker DeWitt or more like Comstock.
Elizabeth's Redemption Journey
00:56:09
Speaker
Right. Essentially you're found wanting and a big daddy puts a drill through your stomach from behind. Right.
00:56:18
Speaker
And you as Booker DeWitt yet again die at the end of a Bioshock Infinite game. Oh geez, don't even recover from it. You don't like run to cover and- No, it's- Call of Duty, heal your stomach. It's essentially that that goes and fades to black. Yeah. So it was really cool because it's like, hey, we're going back to Rapture, gonna check some of that out again. Mm-hmm. Which is good if you like Rapture. Like we said, they could have gone other places. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But it was really fucking cool to go back. They do a lot of nice homage and stuff.
00:56:45
Speaker
And you're like, oh cool, this is kind of what happened at the end of Bioshock Infinite in like a different part of the multiverse. And it sounds like Elizabeth really, her character has taken a relatively dark turn if she's pursuing this, right? Like she's not letting this go. Right. This Booker DeWitt slash Comstock conflict for Booker.
00:57:08
Speaker
Um, if she's literally spending time going through realities, tracking him down and, you know, killing some, something that can approximate the version of him that, um, like imprisoned her. Like that is, that is pure vengeance. Like this is vengeance beyond your timeline, which is, uh, pretty vindictive. She's essentially the chaos night to book her to what's keeper of light.
00:57:38
Speaker
At approximately the same power levels, you know, you're just going dalini Yeah, yeah, no it's it's an interesting term for her character because um in an infinite she really doesn't Like she makes some executive decisions. She kills daisy Yeah, you see her kind of grow and mature through circumstance and she has to make those hard decisions. Yeah
00:58:03
Speaker
But she represents like the good conscience like the conscience of someone who believes that rising up against depression is Preferable to being oppressed and then she sees the outcome of anarchy like she is she's supposed to represent the People behind the keyboard idealistic. Yeah, who still have ideals that will work out properly and this DLC turns it on its head because she's now
00:58:29
Speaker
You can argue you know, maybe this guy This version of Comstock He's committed some serious like Mistakes and in particular for the ending and his reality his Anna DeWitt that he was pulling through the portal He had the front half right? Yeah, or the or the feet but instead of her pink her pinky getting cut off No, he had her for half
00:58:57
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, so she got pulled most of the way through back to Booker's side by the way Okay, so he so calm stock did have her feet. Yes and pulled her through But somebody's like picturing this. Yes. So portal in the middle baby in the middle Calm stock being pulling through the baby through but instead of the baby's pinky getting cut off portal closes sooner. Yeah, and Decapitates the baby. Yeah, which is kind of
00:59:25
Speaker
Demonstrated by like the little doll head. Yeah And he comes to turns like he's like I'm so sorry that I did this and that's when he like shaves his beard off He goes back to being Booker
00:59:39
Speaker
Yeah, he tries to change his ways. Yeah. Um, basically, but she hunts him down. And then like I said, the big daddy kills him. Yeah. And his, his recollection of all this, he's kind of suppressed it, but she brings it to the forefront and kills him for it. And yeah, that's, that's pretty serious. This is a darker Elizabeth for sure.
01:00:02
Speaker
And then, yep, that's it. That's, uh, that's the DLC. Yep. But then resurrection at Barilla. See, they're like, Hey, there's a burial at sea part two. Now I'm at this point. I'm like, okay. But actually infinite ending. Eventually understood and got them bored. Cool. Yeah. Then they went further and I was like, Oh, okay. Add some more detail in there. Cool. And they made a cycle one. And I'm like, where the fuck do you go? Right.
01:00:28
Speaker
So in the second one, you now play as Elizabeth. You go back to Rapture, but we don't know why. She doesn't remember why, right? She's going through to look for another kind of version of Sally. We find out that she feels remorseful that she used the child as bait to then go and kill this version of her dad. Yeah. Type thing. And she's like, and I just.
01:00:57
Speaker
Left her there to be essentially organ farmed. Yeah and use and abused So she ends up going back
01:01:06
Speaker
But this version of her does not have access to everything. She can't tear holes through reality. And she's kind of suppressed. Aren't we all. Oh, oh, suppressed. I said depressed. Super depressed. Super depressed. But yeah, as you're going through.
01:01:29
Speaker
I don't have time to the whole DLC could be its own thing. Yeah, but but it won't be no Before God and you Jacob, I will not do that to you But really cool thing about it is You learn so much in the way of plot. Mm-hmm now, maybe
01:01:48
Speaker
And it's kind of ham-fisted. But again, I was along for the ride. I love it. Because you learn things like the Lutestas were involved in having Daisy Comstock pretend that she was going to kill a little boy so that Elizabeth would have to make that executive decision to kill her, to kind of grow her character.
01:02:08
Speaker
Oh, geez. Yeah. Oh, geez. That's a heck of a revelation. A lot of things are like deeper tied than we initially thought. Yeah. The game plays a little more different because you're stealthy and you have either knockout darts or you kind of use the grappling hook to knock people out rather than murder them. Interesting. Because you are.
01:02:30
Speaker
Essentially depowered and very regretful remorseful Elizabeth. This is conscientious Yeah, Elizabeth. She wants to it now atone for her sin, right? So she's kind of in Booker's shoes in a way. Yeah So lots one pack again, yeah feeling it
01:02:45
Speaker
Going full full circle here. So she doesn't choose to use like a big daddy arm and just kill everybody in her path She goes for the non-lethal. Yeah, or does the game give you the choice? Is it all non-lethal on the way through or do she have options to be more brutal? I feel like you might Get a weapon. Mm-hmm
01:03:07
Speaker
But again, it's like very limited resources. Your best strategy is to kind of like skirt by situations. Right. Which you can do because you have a skirt. Yes. As you're playing Elizabeth. Did you hear that? No, she must've been wearing a skirt. Clack, clack, clack, high heels. Plus 15 to sell. So you're kind of like going through and trying to figure out why you are where you are. But also you want to stay with the girl and you have to end up working with Atlas.
01:03:34
Speaker
Yeah. Or as we know them should truly be Frank Fontaine. Uh, and he's like a huge piece of shit. No surprise. Yeah. Um, but as you are going throughout the game, you also see visions or kind of like hear voices of Booker DeWitt, which as it's explained many times is on your head and you're just kind of projecting. But again, we don't know why that's happening. We don't know why we're here. Right.
01:04:06
Speaker
So if you're hearing voices from Booker DeWitt, does this mean that this reality's Elizabeth is actually a Booker DeWitt that had his exchange?
01:04:19
Speaker
No, no. Okay. I thought about it. I was like, this adds an interesting theory to the camera for sure. He had us exchanged dressed up as Elizabeth and then he killed himself. But they actually say this is like the same Elizabeth that went back and killed that Comstock, which is why she's going back in the first place. Continuity. Um,
01:04:45
Speaker
But yeah, she ends up being partially lobotomized and then eventually killed by Atlas. And it's something like really heavy shit going through. Yeah. Um, but she's kind of, she wants to be done with all of it and she wants to do a little bit of good. So the end result of all of this, of all this shit ends up being her giving the key phrase to.
01:05:14
Speaker
Atlas to kind of trigger Jack Ryan coming back to Rapture and everything. Because kind of similar to Dr. Strange seeing that one possibility, she saw for a brief moment while being lobotomized behind a door where she could actually help the little sisters out through Jack Ryan.
01:05:33
Speaker
one of the eventualities Jack Ryan saves the little sisters the remaining ones they grow up and Yeah, they all marry him. We went over this I think in the original episode Yeah, it's it's kind of like the towards a brighter tomorrow or brighter future yeah ending But it was some really heavy shit for me at the time and even chalk man. I'm getting a Little bit choked up getting those asthma asthma's up
01:06:01
Speaker
But there's just so much in the way it feels and the fact that they tied everything back to Rapture that it's all one interconnected story. Yeah
01:06:10
Speaker
That was his brain. Yeah. Yeah. Instantly a lot of me. So my question kind of, kind of coming off of those DLCs is it's interesting for the franchise to revisit Rapture.
Future of BioShock Series
01:06:23
Speaker
Yes. Like you brought this up some, but like, why do you think they're so focused on Rapture? Like they could have pushed the narrative further. It almost seems like a safe bet to me to kind of reinforce the story going on in Rapture and close a loop. They could have progressed the loop, the story, but they made it a loop.
01:06:40
Speaker
It certainly does, but if you look at it from let's say
01:06:49
Speaker
Halo 1 to Halo 3, right? Each time it progresses, it's different. It has the initial roots, right? But they're not going back. But from a storytelling standpoint, for something like Game of Thrones, where you have all these different things going on, it is so cool and rewarding to see a connection that ties back to an initial part of it. Now, maybe it's lazy storytelling to be like,
01:07:16
Speaker
we'll just tie it back or something. But at the same time, it's really cool to be like, holy shit, I can now go back and replay Bioshock 1 and realize these events were triggered by Elizabeth, which is triggered by this, and just see everything come together. I guess my question would be,
01:07:32
Speaker
Because there's two ways they could have could have gone with this, right? Like either this is part of an actual grand plan or they kind of did they filled gaps And I assume they filled gaps, right? Like when the first bioshock came out in like 2008 2009 Like I can't imagine they had all of these pieces that elizabeth don't fulfill. Definitely not They probably like just elaborated on it and then they built ways to kind of look back. Yeah
01:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, like in my mind it's it's cool as part of the the ongoing narrative like when you can come back and fill that in and to be fair this is DLC. This isn't like it's a full game. This is just an addendum that adds to the story and as far as within the space of DLC
01:08:15
Speaker
Uh, this sounds like a pretty big accomplishment that they, they can like enrich the whole storyline of Bioshock in this way. Um, I would hope that, you know, uh, when the next Bioshock hopefully comes out, you know, right. Um, then they kind of, uh, expand beyond that. They expand beyond that, um, and push the plot forward and they definitely have.
01:08:41
Speaker
Plenty of doors to go through you know as far as the future holds for the series Literally just tons and tons of lighthouses. Do you actually think they're gonna make any more?
01:08:54
Speaker
It's interesting, right? Because the way they, they, they almost left it too open ended for me. Like when I saw the ending to infinite initially, like we kind of just got done circle jerking about the game, but I was almost like there's too many options. Um, is this just opening the door for infinite spinoffs?
01:09:17
Speaker
Right. Cause there's all these lighthouses you've established that there's always a man, there's always a lighthouse. Um, and then they made a female protagonist to the second DLC, which is kind of funny. Uh, just to reassure people, it's not always for every entry, but like, do they buck the trend, right? Like, um, in Bioshock one and Bioshock two and Bioshock infinite, there's always this underlying kind of.
01:09:45
Speaker
Story arc circling through it will they ever kind of break out of that formula? and if so How do they do it like they went to the depths of the sea they went to the sky? Like what is another Bioshock actually look like?
01:10:00
Speaker
because downtown Manhattan right because I'd almost it'd be kind of a weird comparison I would think but Assassins Creed they have this very iterative Format where they're constantly. Yeah, they just they change the location exactly. It's just like a basic reskin It's like ice character fire character. Yeah, um jungle and poison stuff. Yeah, this is Rome. This one. Yeah, Egypt This is you know, whatever
01:10:29
Speaker
but it's like the same game and i definitely wouldn't want it to be that and i guess we said it's been like what like six years since infinite came out so they it's pretty apparent at this point they're not just gonna milk the franchise you know yeah and i way i just don't know what it would be because it's so open-ended
01:10:47
Speaker
It's in that state where I want it to kind of remain where it is. And in so many ways, I want second seasons of good anime as I like. Yeah. But at the same time, if one ends on a good note and it's a concise thing, it kind of dilutes the experience and the overall product. Yeah. If you add extra content to it, that's kind of shitty or underdeveloped or repetitive. Yeah.
01:11:12
Speaker
So I Feel that they flush out the story as much as they physically could yeah, they can't use rapture anymore, right? Like yeah, they could not without being massively criticized, but if they were to just do another Plays the same type of thing you'd be like
01:11:27
Speaker
Oh, I get a multiverse theory question mark. Yeah. So like, how do you get around that? They kind of back themselves. I almost feel like they back themselves in a corner because they've shown the scope of what's going on. All these lighthouses, all these Elizabeths, all these bookers. But then they've also spent so much time with Booker and Elizabeth and Comstock that they can't use those characters.
01:11:48
Speaker
Like in a new game without seeming like you're like, you're hanging on to the, um, your pla- your past glories, really. Like you're relying on these good games to carry you through. And it's, I dunno, it's really tough. They have, uh, if they ever come out with a new game, their storytellers have their work cut out for them.
01:12:07
Speaker
Yeah. I feel that you'd have to, they already kind of do this with Bioshock too. It's like, Oh, let's have a side character kind of be the protagonist of this story and kind of be like, Hey, similar thing, but from a different perspective. Right. They just invert the philosophy you're fighting against and, and, and Bioshock too. Yeah. So I think they've explored everything. I hope, like I, maybe they can do something to be fucking awesome. I'm going to pull my tits off, but.
01:12:36
Speaker
I like the experiences I had when I had them. It's still nice to go back and re-appreciate it, though I'm definitely more jaded as an individual, just in general now. So I'm looking at things more critically, analytically, probably than I should. Great tinted glasses.
01:12:52
Speaker
Yeah, then this then this game of color. I have a band and over my eyes. Jacob. It's bad Yeah, that doesn't change your vision a bit. It's um, yeah, like you said that covered a lot of it individuality and Ayn Rand covered communism collectivism and Bioshock to religion nationalism and Bioshock 3. Yeah, I think it's like infinite
01:13:21
Speaker
So I think the key question is, do any of our choices matter?