Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 53 - Wanderstop
1.3k Plays5 days ago
Listen, the first 15 minutes of this podcast are about hair. We understand the inconvenience this may cause you. You expect a certain level of non-hair content from us, and we have failed to fulfill this responsibility. We will take accountability and reflect on our actions (and our hair) and, while we cannot promise that we won't do it again, we can promise that we had fun when we did it.
In addition to this, Matt has more to say about Blue Prince, and both hosts have more to say about Wanderstop.
Email us! mattandroses@gmail.com
Games Mentioned:
- Myst
- Blue Prince
- Animal Well
- Wanderstop
- Stardew Valley
Recommended
Transcript
The Hair Mishap Adventure
00:00:00
Speaker
um I dyed my hair pink. That's cool. It's pink now. Do you want to talk about it? Do you feel... You sound like you feel some sort of way about it. I don't know.
00:00:12
Speaker
Because, honestly, it was kind of a little bit of a mishap. I had a hair mishap. ah You were we were walking past the pink hair dye in a grocery store when...
00:00:25
Speaker
Because that's where you buy dye. Is it the correct? Because you wouldn't just... Because if you just fell... If the pink hair dye just fell on top of you, that wouldn't be enough because you would have to... yeah it would have to be like... yeah You tripped and fell and then the hair dye fell on top of you and then somebody dropped a gallon of water and that came and rinsed over you and and then trying to get you out of it, they accidentally combed your hair.
00:00:53
Speaker
on some of the other shit that fell over. Like, oh no, her hair's caught. I stood up and there was like a giant fan and it dried my hair for me. Yeah, yeah it's just like, oh no, I accidentally went through the long and difficult process of dyeing my hair pink.
00:01:09
Speaker
This all happened, it took like four hours. No, like I, you know, typically I've been doing ah bleach blonde for a while with kind of a dark root, very rock and roll, very, very Debbie Harry blondie.
00:01:23
Speaker
And I wanted to change it up a little bit. I wanted to go strawberry blonde. Okay. and it just, ah so I don't know, the bleach, we kind of missed a couple spots with the bleach. So it was looking like a little patchy. And i decided to keep some of my bangs blonde and that also didn't look good. So my hair was all over the place. And then it started like washing out in one wash.
00:01:47
Speaker
My hair didn't want to hold on to the orange pigment that we put in. So I went back in and I'm like, I don't know, put pink over it. And we did. And now it looks it looks pretty good. You've seen probably a photo of it. It does look pretty good.
00:02:01
Speaker
But also, I kind of miss the blonde. So was your thought kind of just like, oh, the pink will fill in some pieces and instead it overtook the hair? No, I knew it would overtake Okay, okay. I knew that. Yeah, I was too. I didn't.
00:02:15
Speaker
you just You just thought, okay, since this isn't working, I'll go for pink. And then you got the pink and you were like, you know what? Maybe it was working. It definitely wasn't working, but i i as the pink kind of gets lighter, I do like it.
00:02:32
Speaker
It was like a difficult relationship. You're like, you know what If we'd only just tried harder, me and the blonde. but Me and the strawberry blonde. We could have made it work, and now I'm with pink, and pink just isn't as satisfying it is.
00:02:46
Speaker
It's treating me really well though. It's treating me well. Like it's a really good color. Yeah. yeah And you're true pink. You're treating me well. I know you're a great partner, but there was just something so much more exciting about being with blonde. And I, I just need to see if me and blonde had really tried.
Playful Banter and Podcast Introduction
00:03:08
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe gone to, maybe gone to hair counseling together. Are you trying to get me to break up with my hair? If we could have made it work. mean Maybe me and blonde really did have something special.
00:03:23
Speaker
You know what kind of conversation this is? Huh? Harrowing.
00:03:29
Speaker
It's harrowing. It's harrowing. Harrowing. This is how we're going end every cold open from now on. Yes. Is this one of us looks for a pun?
00:03:59
Speaker
everybody, welcome to Save Your Game. am one of your two hosts, and my name is Matt. And with me is their other host, and her her hair pink.
00:04:11
Speaker
it Her hair pink. It pushing up roses. Hey, roses. Hi, broke up with my hair. During the intro, um I put another layer of bleach on it, and now it's orange. Now it's just bright orange. Looks like a carrot.
00:04:27
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is. do Okay. You know, they like. People sometimes use their hair as like an art piece, right?
00:04:39
Speaker
Like hair doesn't always have to just be something that compliments your looks. It can be its own expression, right? Yeah, absolutely. So there's got to be somebody somewhere who dyed their hair orange, spiked it straight up and then dyed the tip green and was like, I'm carrot head.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah. ah like you Like if you go to you go to like a Oingo Boingo concert or something and there's a okay there's going to be a carrot. If you follow Oingo Boingo on tour for a whole ah whole year, yeah you're going to see one person who's like, look, I'm karrot i'm a carrot head.
00:05:18
Speaker
I'm a carrot head. Yeah. It was probably me when I had my orange orange hair a few years back. I've all kinds of hair. Okay. I think we should post this to Instagram.
00:05:30
Speaker
I'm going to send you podcast.
00:05:34
Speaker
No, Instagram only podcast. now yeah have it oh oh We're about to run out of time. We need to go to podcast therapy.
00:05:44
Speaker
It's like couples counseling, but like for podcast co-hosts that just can't see eye to eye. Yeah. um I'm going to send you a picture of what of me at my desk recording the podcast right now with my pink hair.
00:05:57
Speaker
And I'm going to get your in real time reaction to right now. We can also post this on on the IG for those who want to see my new pink hair. OK. And sent.
00:06:08
Speaker
All right, let me out my open up my phone box. Your phone box. Lift the lid. Okay, i got to pull the chains off. Now I got to reach in my phone sack.
00:06:20
Speaker
ah Our lives are adventure games. the phone out of the phone sack. Now I got to pull the phone protector off. I just i i do a lot to keep myself from my phone while recording.
00:06:32
Speaker
Wow. that's um' Your dedication is admirable. i That's very pink. It's very. Yes, it is.
00:06:42
Speaker
It's very pink. Also, that's a cozy sweatshirt you got on. Thank you. i don't I don't normally show people like in my... I'm not cast out right now at all.
00:06:52
Speaker
We can still post it on Instagram. yeah, yeah. More casual, cozy roses. But like, see, the more I look at the pink hair, the more I do like it. Like it goes with my skin tone. i have green eyes. goes with my green eyes.
00:07:06
Speaker
Doesn't really go with that sweat. it Look, it's cold in here. Okay? Yeah. I can't look like a goth queen and all the time. Do you really think I would? I said, I complimented you and you're like, look, let me explain.
00:07:19
Speaker
Let me explain why my hoodie is cozy.
00:07:25
Speaker
ah But yeah, it's like a ah bright kind of cotton candy-ish hair. It's yeah it's very cool.
Admiration for Pink Hair Style
00:07:31
Speaker
That's what I wanted. like i'm kind of I'm trying to fade it into like a bubblegum pink.
00:07:36
Speaker
And then once I get kind of a bubblegum pink, I can have my like my dark root come in again. going to look so cute. But right now it's like very pink. ah Yeah, I think it's cool. i i in I enjoy Pink hair.
00:07:51
Speaker
I enjoy striking hair. Like, I enjoy a hair that is like... and attention catching but that's just my punk rock that my my punk rock background yeah you want me to dye your hair of course i will matt you know it just so happens that you're gonna be here for my birthday in a couple days and there's a there's a beauty store like two minutes from me i did blue during i did blue during covid oh did you like it Uh, you know, no it just didn't, no, it didn't, it didn't give me the emotional,
00:08:26
Speaker
sort of hit that it gave me when I was a teen, right? Like having blue or purple or what else did I do? Green hair as as a teen. Green is great. i love I love a good green.
00:08:38
Speaker
Felt cool. And I felt some sort of identification with it. And then I did it again. And i was like, this is fine. I don't hate it, but I don't feel identified with it. Maybe that's what you're going through. Maybe it's just the hate your hair looks fine, but maybe you're just not feeling an identity with it.
00:08:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, I i definitely, it it looks very cool when I'm in my leather jacket and my, like, heart-shaped, like, sunglasses. I look like a badass. But, like, I don't look like that all the time. So sometimes I go into my bathroom like, oh. something I think that's something about, i think that I think pink works for that, though, right? Because pink works both cozy and tough, right?
00:09:20
Speaker
True. It's like Kathy Rain, right? Yeah, you could be goth. And have pink hair and yeah it works. Or you can just be lounging around in sweatpants and a sweatshirt and whatever and have pink hair. looks pretty good. Yeah.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah. For that, you report can report back on what Pushing Up Roses is really like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we hang out in person, we're playing Myst and I'm like. Absolute gremlin. And then I looked over and she had fucking pink hair and I was like, God. Yeah.
00:09:54
Speaker
I gotta get out of here. I can't even focus on Myst here. I can't even focus on these puzzles. but i I'm just so pissed at this hair. I'm just so pissed off. That's not very punk of you, Matt. i just I would say that's not good.
Debating Game Design and Cheats in Myst
00:10:11
Speaker
I have a question. And it is about Myst. And i' I haven't played anything. But I have been looking into Myst because Matt's going to help me beat Myst, everybody. I'm going to beat it.
00:10:22
Speaker
For the first time ever, I'm going to beat Mist and get off that damn first island. ah So I've been looking into it. And feel like, I don't know if it was you I had this discussion with, but is there a shorter way to beat this game? And I and i say beat, I don't say complete.
00:10:40
Speaker
Is there a short way involving levers to beat this game?
00:10:46
Speaker
i I have never heard of this. Are you serious? No, that can't be right. Are you trolling? No, I've literally never. The only time I've ever heard of this is when you vaguely referenced it one time, I think, in a phone call.
00:10:59
Speaker
Okay, so I looked it up and it's real, Matt. If you do the levers, you can beat the game. I complete it. And I'm going to show you this ending. I'm going to show you how I beat Myst.
00:11:10
Speaker
And you're going to be like, well, that was unfulfilling. You just pulled some levers. Okay. How did you, what did you, like... is it a Is it a hack? Is it a or is it like a secret cheat?
00:11:25
Speaker
It's secret. I don't know if... You guys tell us. Do you think it's cheating? Yes. yes You know all those lever boxes that are around the island?
00:11:36
Speaker
you You have to pull all of them, including the one that is the clock in the middle of the lake thing. Yes. You have to do that anyway.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, you have to do that anyway. But you pull all levers. I don't remember how many levers there are. And you get into this like secret like area where the guy where there's some guy. There's like some dude. He's like, you did I'm not. This sounds like making it up. No, that's how that is how the I guess I should just say it. That is how the game ends.
00:12:09
Speaker
You get into a secret room and a guy's like, you made it, you know, like that. So you're telling me that you can skip the entire game by just doing. But it can't just be pulling all the levers because I think you have to do that anyway.
00:12:25
Speaker
There's like a couple things you have to do. It's like, oh, pull the levers and then push this one up and push that one down. And then it opens the secret door. Like, it's got to be. It has to be something that the designers put in there to like, test the ending. You know, like a ah Like when there's a secret debug mode in a game. It's like, look, we're having problems getting this ending to trigger. So let's just put in some like secret thing no one's ever going to discover.
00:12:53
Speaker
So we can just cut right to the end from the beginning. Yeah, i there are. It does. It absolutely has to do with the lovers. Mm hmm. um And then there's, I think there's a couple other things, but it is like canon now. Like it's in all the, you know, updated versions of Myst.
00:13:12
Speaker
So it's not. Right. Cause it's like an, it's like an Easter egg. And now they're, they're like, yeah well, for the people that know it, wink, wink, we're going to put it in every version. Wink, wink.
Podcast Themes: Fun vs. Seriousness
00:13:21
Speaker
Here's this thing. Yeah.
00:13:22
Speaker
um This thing that I'm thinking about a lot right now, and
00:13:28
Speaker
Trust me, i don't I don't care about this, but it is it is making me think of it. We got a YouTube comment very recently where some dipshit was like, oh god um your this video said was about Laura Bowe and the...
00:13:46
Speaker
hi the dagger of Amon Ra, but I've been listening for 15 minutes now and they're just talking about other things. I need, and and laughing and said something like, Oh my God. Oh God. guess this is just proof. I need to stay away from introverts. Like you've never listened to a podcast before.
00:14:03
Speaker
What are you talking about? But anyway, I'm imagining that person listening to this and whatever this episode is titled, they're like, they're only talking about hair. They're talking about hair. And now they're talking about mist But we say exactly we talk about in every episode. In the description. Yeah, it's a description.
00:14:25
Speaker
Guys, Matt works so hard at the descriptions. Please read them. It's a fucking... name It's more of a comedy podcast. i Like, it's like half of our podcast is just us bullshitting. So somebody does. So, like good on that guy for recognizing that this isn't the podcast for him. But the fact that he took the time to sit there and write, like, I listened for 15 whole minutes and they didn haven't even mentioned Laura Bo yet. It's like, what?
00:14:54
Speaker
If this is being the opposite of an extrovert or whatever he's saying, then, like, is is sitting inside and complaining about not hearing the or the right thing quick enough.
00:15:07
Speaker
That is too funny. ah But we we also, I just want to say, we also take accountability for how long our cold opens used to be. That's on us. We just like to fucking talk. It's not, you know...
00:15:21
Speaker
I think most people like that. Wait, I don't understand the introvert quip. What's that about? Oh, did I not finish? Maybe didn't finish saying the thing about his comment. The last sentence was, this is why I should stay away from extroverts.
00:15:36
Speaker
Did I not say that out loud? You said introvert. Or did I? i Well, I was saying if that's the opposite I don't know. I'd have to listen back. Probably i misspoke one thing. i But I was saying... okay here's the two things I was saying.
00:15:51
Speaker
He said... This is great entertainment. He said... we might need to cut this part out. I'm not cutting it. He said This is why I need to stay away from extroverts.
00:16:05
Speaker
ah And then I said... If this is what being the opposite of an extrovert is... Then you need to stay away from introverts. because that yeah that Yeah, I guess that I need to stay away from introverts because being the opposite of an extrovert is complaining to a podcast.
00:16:23
Speaker
two were podcasts That they're enjoying themselves.
00:16:30
Speaker
Okay. No, that if that is what you want your life to be about, sir, then like, good, good on you, man. But you writing that comment isn't going to make us in the past have talked about Laura Bo any quicker.
00:16:45
Speaker
That's true. And it's not it's not even going to stop us from talking, to be honest with you. It might it might cause me to rebel and just talk about nothing. for It's like my superpower.
00:16:58
Speaker
wonder that, right? that By the way. who is in there's certainly going to be an episode one day where we just never get around to talking about video games right like it's just it's just like an inevitability inevitability that at least one episode in the next say 100 episodes we're gonna be like oh fuck we ran out of time to talk about games but fun but Yeah, it's not like he's like, oh if I leave this comment, maybe i'll I'll check back in and listen to the next episode and see if they've taken my feedback to heart and only talk about the game from the very beginning.
00:17:46
Speaker
Oh, i don't I don't take any feedback. well yeah But you see, I don't even think this person intends it to be feedback. i think he would and I think he intended for us to read that and be like, oh, we failed at our job.
00:18:00
Speaker
I was a bad podcaster. Yeah, yeah. um But anyway. I'm sorry you don't like fun,
Art and Broader Discussions
00:18:08
Speaker
sir. On some level, this man got into my head because as we were talking about hair for the 14th minute, I was like...
00:18:16
Speaker
i wonder what I was thinking to myself, I wonder what this podcast is titled. I wonder what this episode is. Is it titled Wanderstop? and is and And how would that man have reacted to it?
00:18:30
Speaker
Sir, we encourage you to have more fun in your life. I'm sorry that you're angry at our rambling, but just know that we love what we do. This is the thing. If games... I'm going be okay If games, if any art, right, doesn't lead you to more interesting conversations than just the art.
00:18:49
Speaker
That's probably not helpful. It's probably not something that's doing you well, doing you good in your life, right? Like art is meant to open up doorways in your brain so that you can ah think new thoughts, um connect better with people, um but you know, reach ah levels of understanding about something that you haven't before. everything,
00:19:15
Speaker
Any conversation about art should necessarily include the people talking about it getting along, connecting with each other. we get along? And, and ah you know...
00:19:28
Speaker
um broaching deeper subjects than just the game if you don't all you want to listen to and somebody youd say and then uh went into the basement room and then I found the uh sponge and then I took the sponge up to the chemicals and I soaked the chemicals in the sponge and then I put the sponge on the photo and then the photo developed and then I took the photo and I put it in the mailbox and then like if that's really way of talking that's all you want yeah
00:20:00
Speaker
then like just play the game again i guess yeah i haven't been i have a few videos on laura bow that might scratch your itch if you really want to listen to me talk about laura bow for ah too long of a time that said though one of my favorite adventure game podcasts of all time and um it doesn't it doesn't the guy doesn't make new episodes anymore but it was called the i think it was just called the point and click podcast okay let me look it up to make sure yeah it was it was called point and click an adventure game podcast and he would spend the first half of every episode going really deep into like the history of shit and he was really knowledgeable he would um he would go ah
00:20:50
Speaker
Even down into like the hardware that was developed that made it possible to make these sounds or whatever. Oh, cool. Really smart dude.
00:21:01
Speaker
And then the second half of every episode is what he called a talk-through. And he would literally just talk. He would just like do an audio walk-through of the game.
00:21:13
Speaker
oh fun. I get to... and like i get to
00:21:20
Speaker
99.9% of people on earth. That sounds like torture, but to me it was heaven. Right. I was like, yeah I love it. Cause it was just like, you'd be able to sit at work doing like, or doing whatever boring thing you're doing on a long drive or whatever. Yeah. And it's just like, Oh, it's kind of like I'm playing. What's an episode he did.
00:21:36
Speaker
It's kind of like I'm playing day of the tentacle in my brain.
00:21:42
Speaker
I like that too. And I like, you know, being told a story and, you And all that stuff. That's cool. It's too bad he doesn't do it anymore. i agree. I agree. But that was your only entertainment, you either play Day of the Tentacle or listen to somebody describe Day of the Tentacle. You really need to expand your horizons.
00:22:01
Speaker
Maybe listen to somebody joke about hair for 15 minutes. It's important to me. Anyway, ah so i talked to let's see I talked about hair. I talked about the mist weird thing that I am going to show you.
00:22:15
Speaker
And you're going to be like, what's the point of that? What have you been playing?
Deep Dive into Blueprints Game
00:22:20
Speaker
Oh, boy. oh my God. Matt, please. I've been playing that that that question, much like this game, has been is like a real Pandora's box for me.
00:22:31
Speaker
um Because I have, i think we're we're clear to talk about it now. I've been playing Blueprints. um And holy shit, does this game go fucking deep, dude?
00:22:45
Speaker
It's interesting because it doesn't... I wasn't quite getting that from the demo. Yeah. yeah Yeah. I mean, what we got from the demo was this game is really complex.
00:22:57
Speaker
This game is going to have a lot to it and it's going be really fun. Yeah. um So you play about, you know, your first 10 hours and you're doing basically what you're doing in the demo, right? You are um laying down rooms one after the other on a blueprint every time you go through a door.
00:23:17
Speaker
um Some rooms cost gems. Some doors are locked and need keys. You have a certain amount of steps per day. yeah um And some of the rooms have items that help you solve puzzles in other rooms and whatever. It's it's sort of like an adventure game. It's sort of like a um roguelike. It's sort of like a board game. It's sort of like a strategy game. It's got all these elements to it.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yeah. so you're working really hard to get to the fabled room 46.
00:23:48
Speaker
and Again, about 10 hours in. Maybe shorter if you're a lot smarter than me. um Impossible. That is the smartest boy in the world. You...
00:24:01
Speaker
but you um You get to room 46 and then you look at your notebook or you go over in your brain or you look at your screenshots or you go over in your brain, all the stuff all the goals you had. And you're like, there's a lot of dead ends still. There's a lot of puzzles I haven't solved.
00:24:22
Speaker
And you had this instinct right away, which is to leave the mansion and walk the grounds and say, What exists outside of the bounds of what this game is telling me, right?
00:24:35
Speaker
That was your first instinct. And that's how you found the spooky little hallway and stuff. Right? Remember that? the The garage? The garage, yeah. Yeah, the voice where i'm like, no, that's okay. um But then, first of all, ending made me tear up.
00:24:56
Speaker
and then ah And then you go back into the game. And you've only just scratched the surface.
00:25:06
Speaker
I am 20 hours past the credits now. Wow. And i still have a list as long as my hand of mysteries I'm trying to solve. It's like almost like sandboxy then.
00:25:20
Speaker
It kind of like it gives you an ending, but you can play way beyond that if you wanted to. i have a feeling there's I'm I'm I think I compared it on a previous episode to Animal Well.
00:25:32
Speaker
um And I yeah think it is it's similar to that. Like there's I have a feeling there's more endings beyond the ending. Yeah. Yeah. There's this game just goes so, so, so deep.
00:25:45
Speaker
And you could stop there. You could get to room 46 and been like, good to just think like, that was fun. solved some really tough puzzles. I solved some really fun puzzles. And i saw the ending.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah. But I think getting to the end is only, you know, you're only beating.
00:26:08
Speaker
I want to say maybe 10% of the game. Like, it's There's so much more. That's wild. How is that even possible? I know. I have all these rooms that are now outside of the mansion and are permanent.
00:26:21
Speaker
I have... ah I've discovered these, like, ancient catacombs. i don't I don't want to get too into it. But there's... yeah Because I don't want to spoil things. But...
00:26:34
Speaker
every It's this thing where everything you see in the game... has significance. um And you'll be you'll be in some room and you'll look at a note and there'll be some like oblique reference to something you've been looking at the entire game.
00:26:55
Speaker
Like not this, because I don't want to spoil anything, but say that there's I don't know, say there's a ah pen sitting on the first table when you walk in. And every time you come in, you look at that pen and you don't even think about it.
00:27:07
Speaker
And then there's some note that's like, Oh, on the underside of the pen. Because of what you did, what you hid on the underside of the pen. And then you go when you start the next day, you go look at the pen and you look at the underside and it tells you some way to open up a secret catagombe in the first room. and Like, things on that level of yeah secrecy. Yeah.
00:27:35
Speaker
ah yeah It's a game where you have to have patience with puzzles too, right? You have to run into something and be like, this what what this is telling me is so foreign at this moment.
00:27:47
Speaker
I just have to write it down and trust that eventually whatever it's saying is going to make sense. Yeah. Yeah. That might piss at some point i came across a At some point I came across a map and it had these symbols pointing to each thing on the map.
00:28:07
Speaker
And I was... There was... At that point, I don't even think I knew that the game had to do with the global politics of the world of blueprints.
00:28:19
Speaker
And so I was like, okay, I'm just going to take a screenshot of this and come back to it. And now I've spent
00:28:25
Speaker
So much time staring at this map and trying to connect it to certain other things that I know about. Like...
00:28:34
Speaker
yeah it's it's wild you start you uncover like the um family history of the people who owned this mansion and and it involves their um the both good and bad political motivations that they've had throughout the course of history and how the things they've done tie into the history of this world and the politics of this world good and bad ah and the consequences that they had for following their own politics again both good and bad and ah It's just never ending. there's There's a point where you come across a bedroom with bunk beds. That's one of the rooms that you can generate.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a notebook in it that was clearly the diary of, I think, your character. I might be remember remembering this wrong. One is your character and one is who ends up, who's like your brother.
00:29:27
Speaker
um And it was like, this is your diary. Like, it'll be a ah ah in one handwriting. like um today at kindergarten I did this and the next one is like a completely different handwriting and it's another it's somebody mocking the other kid like today i was a big stupid head and then the next diary auntie is like so and so stole my diary and I hate him for it and the next one's like and the next one's mocking the kid for doing that and at the end I'm going to spoil there's this one tiny thing because I think it gives you a hint of the humanity in this game if it's starting to feel kind of
00:30:05
Speaker
um antiseptic yeah uh the last page is a note from you as an adult and it's like today is a good day because like mocking like mimicking the format of all the previous pages and it's like because i get to see my brother and like my brother returns from college and i finally get to see him again and is how i hope and i And because of that, I can finally return the diary I stole from him long ago when we were kids.
00:30:35
Speaker
I hope you find this as hilarious and silly as I do. Congrats on your diploma. And ma it gives you goosebumps. It's like yeah the sweetest little thing locked in this game of
00:30:51
Speaker
um just endless complexity. yeah. yeah So it's sweet and it's personal and it's political and it's full of secrets and it involves a lot of thought, but it's also a lot of fun.
00:31:05
Speaker
um I know I've been ranting for a while. I apologize. and been raveing i mean You've been raving. yeah i also i I reached out to... I'm writing a review for this ah for Adventure Game Hotspot.
00:31:18
Speaker
I was just like, hey, is anyone covering this? Because like the moment I rolled credits, I was like, I need to write a review about this thing. So hopefully that'll be out by the time this episode goes up so people can read my more in-depth thoughts.
00:31:30
Speaker
Nice. It sounds like we might have to do a ah pod on it too. Yeah, I wonder. To if I have the same experience as you. I wonder because I think these a lot of these types of puzzles, it's kind like Lorelei and the Laser Eyes or like Myst, right?
Exploring Wanderstop’s Themes
00:31:47
Speaker
A lot of these puzzles might not be the ones you love. Yeah. But I do think you will enjoy the like the basic loop of the game, like from the demo, like building the rooms and trying to plan your way to the end.
00:32:00
Speaker
Yeah. No, I do. I do like the mechanic. It's really interesting. And I think what the pieces of story that you uncover... you will find interesting and charming.
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah. um But I do really wonder if it will, if this is the type type of puzzle that'll keep your interest. Right. ah To like, i don't know, however, however deep the ending is. I'm in a, i think I can say this. I'm in like a secret discord for press for this game. When you beat this game, and when you roll credits you can join like the press discord because it's obviously i'm playing an advanced copy yeah and there are people in this discord who are like i've put 106 hours into this game over the past three weeks yeah i bet yeah i bet i saw you on steam that you put like over 30 hours into it already yeah the person i'm quoting that spent ah over 100 hours is like i won't blow up their spot but they are a
00:32:59
Speaker
They're one of the biggest video games journalists on earth. So it's not like they don't have other shit to do.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is going to be this is so and you know the fucking thing about this roses. What? It's this guy's first game. Of course it is. Of course.
00:33:18
Speaker
Of course it is. Of course. They're the most talented person on the planet that I'm definitely not jealous of.
00:33:27
Speaker
Just because I'm sitting here making wonky pots doesn't mean I'm jealous.
00:33:34
Speaker
All right. I got to stop talking about blueprints because the listeners are going to hear more about this game in the next month, I'm sure. From me and everywhere else. Only from you.
00:33:49
Speaker
So I'll shut the fuck up about it. But my God, this game is a absolute triumph. ah see Hey, ah spoiler alert. I'm giving it 100.
00:34:00
Speaker
I'm giving it 100 on my review. Wow, you heard it here, folks. Aren't you lucky? ah Jack's going to listen to that. And it's like, he's going to plan for the thing to go up tomorrow.
00:34:12
Speaker
He's going to be like, you son of a bitch.
00:34:18
Speaker
No, that's great. I'm really curious about it now. So I did, ah I did install it. So I will be giving it a shot. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to see what your experience is with it. And I, I can't wait for the general public to get this game. Cause I just want to I just want to talk about,
00:34:38
Speaker
I want talk about it. Like, that's all I want to do like ah every day. I just, I'm just spending the day thinking about this game. Oh my. Yeah. I mean, you can talk about it at my birthday party if you want.
00:34:49
Speaker
um don't know if anybody will know what the fuck you're talking about. Nobody will have played it because it's not out yet. Disaster.
00:34:56
Speaker
disaster um And then later I'll have to be like, Matt, what did you do to my friends? Why are they all in love with you? Why are they all deeply in love with you? Why are all my friends fighting to see who gets to marry you? Fighting for you Yeah, it's it's wild.
00:35:15
Speaker
ah Well, thank you for indulging me and listening. I know the only, i do feel a little bit better knowing that you're going to have a billion, billion things to say about the game we're talking about today.
00:35:26
Speaker
ah Yeah, that's true. That's true. I get very... We're going to be talking about Wanderstop today, folks. And... If there's one thing I'm good at, it's about introspection and just analyzing mental health and games and what it's trying to say. And ah i'm I'm excited for this. i You were the one who brought this game to my attention.
00:35:51
Speaker
I'm like, okay, I'll play it. And just luckily, luckily I played the demo and it came out very quickly after that because, man. Yeah. The game knew what it was doing. It's like, yeah, we'll grab you a little bit and then we'll cut you off. And i'm like, oh, thank God that I played this really close to the release date.
00:36:12
Speaker
I've never played a demo that ends at a more infuriating moment. No, I know. Yeah, I know. I i think i I mentioned it in one of the things where where it actually like cuts off or i don't know if I said where if if I didn't, we'll say it here. But yeah, infuriating. I could not believe that.
00:36:31
Speaker
Smart, though, because I went back and I got the game and played it. Yeah, yeah. me i i ah played it a lot slower than you for whatever reason. Yeah. Maybe it's something we can dissect, but I don't know if we'll get to the bottom of it because I liked it the whole way through. But anyway, um but I just finished it actually today.
00:36:51
Speaker
So. Oh, great. Great. Yay. Shit. I just realized you're waiting for me to do a blankie cankerino. Yeah, I am waiting. And I didn't, and I didn't even have it up. Maybe that's where I'll keep it today. Blankie cankerino.
00:37:04
Speaker
Blankie cankerino. You're incoming. Oh,
00:37:27
Speaker
everyone, welcome back to Save Your Game. i am your host, PushingUpRoses, and with me, as always, the very strong, the very um X-Men knowledgeable, ah plug, go listen to his podcast, Mutant Menace, Matt Aukamp.
00:37:45
Speaker
Hi, Matt. I forgot to plug that last episode. No, you did. Oh, okay. Oh, was it two episodes ago? I forgot. One episode I forgot about. It doesn't matter. We're not here to talk about X-Men. Even though, yes, I'm very strong. I'm so strong I can lift up every X-Men comic ever made at once.
00:38:03
Speaker
How many is that, Matt? don't know. That would be impossible. That would be impossible. I'm sure there is an answer, but it it would be so complicated. Like, what qualifies as an X-Men comic? What qualifies as a Comic just with an X-Man in it. What qualifies as, you know, what is... If you're asking how many issues of X-Men.
00:38:27
Speaker
That's what I'm asking. in Yes, that's what Of the comic called X-Men. Then, even then, you're getting into complications. Because Uncanny X-Men? Or X-Men?
00:38:39
Speaker
Because x-men for blood X-Men turned into Uncanny X-Men. But then in the 90s, another comic book came out that ran alongside it. That was just called X-Men again. So what are you talking about?
00:38:51
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about here. if we're talking about the combination of Uncanny X-Men and Adjective-less X-Men. yeah Yeah, put them together.
00:39:03
Speaker
You're looking at around a thousand books. So you you think that you can lift a thousand comics. Yeah. but What do you mean think? I'm doing it right now. Wow, you're not even like panting. That's amazing.
00:39:17
Speaker
Matt Alkamp, everyone. live some comics.
00:39:21
Speaker
It's just I'm a very strong, strong, strong and special boy. Hey. It's true. What are we talking about today? Well, ah you're going to need your your mental strength for this one because we're talking about Wanderstop.
00:39:36
Speaker
And if you guys listened to the last, definitely the last episode or maybe the one before that. I think it may might have been the one before that. i do We do talk a little bit about the themes of Wanderstop. but Yeah, it was the episode it was the episode with Meredith. So, yeah. Okay.
00:39:53
Speaker
um So it was two ago. Okay. but We have talked about it a couple different times now. Yeah. And every time we talk about it, I feel like we have to stop ourselves a little short because, you know, at some point we've, you know, I don't want to give away everything.
00:40:08
Speaker
I wanted to dedicate more of a ah um an episode to this because I thought it was a really interesting really interesting themed game and the kind of the points that this game was trying to make so so can i just give like a quick a quick overview not an overview i'm going to give my quick experience Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we were looking at this is when we found this game when we were looking at demos.
00:40:35
Speaker
And I think like Next Fest was going on. And you were just kind of you were just throwing a lot of um ah things that I might be interested in. and You said you might you might like Wanderstop.
00:40:46
Speaker
And I think you hadn't like played a lot of it. You're just like, I think you might like this. I'm like, OK, I like the name of it. It's like very whimsical. So I, you know, I play the demo. And this is the, I'm going to spoil it now. I'm going to spoil what the demo does.
00:41:02
Speaker
So the demo ends right before you do any of what the game advertises that it does. So it says it's kind of like a tea management type of thing. your Your character's working at a cafe at a tea place.
00:41:17
Speaker
You don't get to do any of that in the demo. It stops. it like It gives you some story. it gives you some narrative. You talk to a couple characters even. But you don't... And there's also like a gardening aspect as well because that's how you're going to make your tea. You're going to make it from hand. You're going to grow different plants. You're going to get the leaves and put different you know flavors in it or whatever.
00:41:39
Speaker
ah So there is a little bit of a gardening aspect to it. But you don't get to do any of that shit in the demo. Luckily for me, i played this game pretty close to release date, so I was able to continue it, and I actually binged it.
00:41:53
Speaker
I know, Matt, you played it more in short bursts. yeah I played it basically as much as I could because I enjoyed it that much. I enjoyed it. like there's i didn't I didn't not enjoy it, but i i think I found it more beautiful Yeah. And ah emotionally stimulating.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah. Then I found it fun. And actually, as we'll get into, i think, later in this discussion, I think that's maybe... That maybe affects the point it's trying to make a little bit.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I... it's It's a very interesting mechanic. And I know we've already talked about like kind of what it's about. I think I went into detail on that Meredith episode, but just a real quick recap.
00:42:47
Speaker
You're playing a character named Alta. You are a warrior and it has been your life goal and your life's meaning to be the best fighter to be the best warrior um unfortunately as you kind of go through this introduction you realize that you are burnt out you are tired you can't even hold your sword anymore yeah and you don't quite understand why um but eventually you pass out in the forest you're trying to run through the forest you're trying to find this mentor who will help you to become, you know, a better warrior, but you can't even make it there because you're that tired. and
00:43:21
Speaker
So you are found by this sweet little man named Boro, and he brings you to a place called Wanderstop, which is not, it's not a town. It is simply the name of like the tea shop or like the estate that you're on.
00:43:37
Speaker
as Yeah, is Wanderstop. So he's like, you know, maybe you just need to, you know, people come to Wanderstop when they need to rest a little bit. Maybe, maybe you can rest and hey, you can help me run the tea shop if you want something to do. You know, there's, there's always people in need of stuff.
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, I think your character kind of resists that at first because she doesn't want to be making tea. Because, you know, this whole the whole premise of this game is that you are allowed to be productive doing maybe things that people don't think right away.
00:44:12
Speaker
are production I think it really asks the question, like, well what is productivity? What does being productive mean to people? Is it working your hardest and working your longest? Is that what being productive is?
00:44:25
Speaker
Or is being productive doing something a little more casual, like making a tea for somebody? and And why does society think that that's not also productive? a way of being productive, you know?
00:44:36
Speaker
um it definitely pushes the idea that in order to be productive and successful, you have to push yourself hard to the point of of exhaustion. And the game is, I think, the story is trying to challenge that. Well, like, well, what is productivity?
00:44:52
Speaker
i I even think... This might be a difference of opinion meaning you have. I think i think that therere the game is trying to even say productivity shouldn't be the goal.
00:45:03
Speaker
Because early on, he also tells you, if you don't want to make tea, that's fine. And if and there aren't he he basically tells you, you don't need to do anything.
00:45:15
Speaker
You won't get... I don't think he's... I don't know how this is communicated because you know he doesn't say it in this word, in these words. But basically, you're not going to get rewarded right for doing anything. and you People don't expect anything from you. I'm not going to give you a list of tasks. I'm not going to tell you what you have to do.
00:45:37
Speaker
And if you don't give people the tea they're looking for, that's okay. We don't charge people money. We don't, like... So on some level, I think the game is also saying like, hey,
00:45:54
Speaker
sometimes you should do things just because you kind of enjoy doing them. Yeah. And not... for productivity's sake. ah And I think that, I do want to say, I think that is being productive. I think resting is being productive. It's just not, it's not what society, again, like you said, you're not exactly rewarded in a tangible way.
00:46:17
Speaker
But there is a reward. And I think Alta has to has to see that for herself. The reward of resting or pivoting from something that's no longer serving you. you know That's burning you out. That maybe that's not meant where your life is going to go.
00:46:32
Speaker
And so I think the reward... I think Boro... I think there's a lot of trickery in this game. right i think I think it is advertised as a certain type of game. And it it tricks you and it's not.
00:46:43
Speaker
And I also think that Boro is tricking Alta... into a different kind of, of pride. He's saying there's no reward, but I think there is one.
00:46:55
Speaker
It's just not something that Alta recognizes as a reward, the reward of feeling better, you know, the reward of feeling confident in yourself and your choices, you know?
00:47:08
Speaker
So um I think one thing that you would maybe have to believe
00:47:17
Speaker
to believe that this game is about
00:47:26
Speaker
to to believe that this there's this game is still about a sort of productivity is you would have to believe and and maybe you do or maybe just disagree with this theory you would have to believe that alta wants to serve tea right You would have to believe that she ah ah eventually, she doesn't see it right away, but eventually finds that she wants, like, that's what she wants to pivot to. That is what she's like.
00:47:54
Speaker
Instead of being a warrior, she wants to be a tea server. And I think she, and my my take on it is that she doesn't. She's never, this isn't about finding a new career for her. She doesn't want be a tea lady. Right, right.
00:48:11
Speaker
And she's not going and she's not resting. And this is made very clear in the game. She's not resting so that she can get back to her life as a warrior. Yeah. I guess you can say. She thinks she is. She thinks that's what's going to happen.
00:48:24
Speaker
Right. And the whole game is about tearing down that assumption and saying, no, this is about resting for rest sake, not for if you are doing this, if you are resting so that you can get back to adventuring. And this is what at any point in the game, you can run back into the woods.
00:48:41
Speaker
You can, you can take back off. Um, and she'll collapse again. And I think what that's trying to say is if you are doing this just to get back to where you were at, just to get back to a place where you can be productive again, then you're not truly resting.
00:49:05
Speaker
You're not yeah truly living for yourself. You are still living for, ah what the game externalizes is this other person inside you, this other person who demands,
00:49:19
Speaker
demands perfection and demands, uh, productivity. Yeah, absolutely. And like I want to say, let's let's talk about, because we are kind of talking about, um you know, pivots and and kind of trickery. Not trickery, but i do think that the game can be misleading. I'm not saying it's false advertising in in any way. I'm saying that this looks like a cozy life management slash T-Shop simulation
Philosophical Messages and Game Fun
00:49:51
Speaker
game.
00:49:51
Speaker
Like a management game. Like you are going to be serving people tea all the time what is this good equivalent to a management game um i mean uh we overreference it management game oh okay um why are we why can't we think of anything there's like so many i think right yeah there's a ton um like maybe that uh i mean there's that cat cafe game i think you get little you know i think you get little quests of like serving certain people i mean there's there's um
00:50:26
Speaker
Holy shit, what is going on with our brains? um well What were you going to say prior with what that you said we over-reference What were going say? I was just going say Stardew Valley. Okay.
00:50:37
Speaker
Because I do think like that's not a food management sim, but it is it's a type of... ah there a lot of these simulation games, they are ah about productivity.
00:50:51
Speaker
Yes. And about how can you be the most effective at your job? How can you how can you approach your job with so much dedication and intelligence that you can do it as effectively, efficiently, as Quickly and smartly and in as much of a ah quantity as possible.
00:51:14
Speaker
yeah And this game is rejecting that. It's like therere there you don't unlock something that heats the tea faster. Right. right you don't unlock ah You don't unlock a special plant that ah makes all...
00:51:30
Speaker
you know, plants 25% easier to grow, right? You don't unlock a special watering can that holds twice as much water because the game trying to- You don't try to have sex with every single character and then break their heart and then divorce them and then erase their memories.
00:51:45
Speaker
I did, but I had a ROM hack. Oh, okay. Okay. i had a I'm just cruel. What was I? would say A mod, guess is the word I was Oh, mod. Okay.
00:51:57
Speaker
That's actually a really good example because if you if you look up like Stardew Valley videos, like guides, what are they? They're all about, you didn't know about this tip. You didn't know about this hack that'll make it this much more productive. And you're going to have so many crops and and so many ways to do something.
00:52:15
Speaker
Whereas this game, even though I think the there is a label for like life sim, maybe on the Steam page, it kind of tricks you. It's really not about that.
00:52:27
Speaker
um Yeah. Go ahead. No, you go ahead. Sorry. I was going to say it is, think what's really interesting and I've never really seen a game do this before is there's not a lot of characters on screen at one time.
00:52:43
Speaker
You were not, this, ah and this is what makes it really not a super duper management things. Like you would do have quests and you can do them. And I did them because that's how I wanted to play the game. I wanted to get people the tea that they requested. I wanted to plant plants to make, you know, ingredients and flavors.
00:53:01
Speaker
But I did notice that there's only a couple characters on screen that you can really help at a time. ah The game takes place what I presume to be in a year because it seems to be segmented into seasons.
00:53:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like per season, there's only maybe maybe two or three other characters other than yourself and Boro, you know, the shop owner. And at first I was like, at first I really didn't like it. I didn't realize that maybe this is something the devs did on purpose.
00:53:31
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Because no, we're not going to make you be the most productive. We're going to give you a choice. You can rest. You can play this in a cozy way. You can get people tea. But even then, there's only two people that you can help on screen.
00:53:46
Speaker
And then when you're done with that season, those characters, you don't see them again. yeah It's kind of sad. Do you want to explain that mechanic a little bit? Yeah, I mean, so there's characters wandering around that they they want specific types of tea, right? Sometimes they don't. Sometimes you have to convince them to want tea. Yeah.
00:54:06
Speaker
Which, you know, I think is part of the thing is like, not, this is something Boro tells you too, the first time somebody doesn't want tea. He's like, yeah, not everyone. Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:17
Speaker
Not everyone wants something. Not everybody needs something. And she gets upset, right? Because she's used to having this path where everything is just kind of working out for her. There's like a structure to it.
00:54:28
Speaker
And now there's no structure. now people Now she's got this weird job where somebody might not even want tea. Right. And so like at first you're just bullying people into wanting tea. yeah um But ah so then yeah what you'll have to do is you'll have to go grow certain plants.
00:54:46
Speaker
ah You'll have to harvest tea leaves, dry the tea leaves, um grow certain plants by planting seeds in certain patterns and watering the seeds and then um throwing those into the tea, heating the tea, heating the tea water, throwing those into the tea, pouring it out through a big,
00:55:01
Speaker
ah complicated tube. Yeah. And then you bring them tea. And generally that progresses those people's stories. Right. They take the tea, they walk away. And then a little bit later, they'll come back to with some new beat on their story. Like, for example, somebody's got a.
00:55:21
Speaker
It's this is this trickery you're talking about because he's got a cursed leg. Yeah. Um, but his story, right? Yes. But his story isn't about the cursed leg, even though you can't seem to stop obsessing about the cursed leg. Every time you talk to him, um, the story is not about his cursed leg. The story is about how he keeps doing bigger. And this is another thing.
00:55:46
Speaker
All the, all the stories at subtly or not subtly tie into the theme. Right. Um, It's about him constantly trying bigger and bigger things to impress his son. Yeah.
00:56:00
Speaker
And his son perpetually being unimpressed because he just wants a dad. Yeah. And he's like a teenager, you know, kind of that, that age where it's like, but yeah. So like, he just, he doesn't want his dad to go do impressive things and like, uh, be a super cool dude. He wants his dad to be a dad and just like chill.
00:56:22
Speaker
Um,
00:56:24
Speaker
And after a while, man and this this gets heartbreaking later on, but after a while, ah and you'll have like two customers roughly wandering around at a time.
00:56:36
Speaker
um And after a while, they will, you'll go up to talk to them and and you'll just get a series of dots. Right. And they they won't have anything to say.
00:56:50
Speaker
And you go to Boro and you say, hey, ah something weird's happening. Nobody's talking to me. Everything. and Everybody is silent. And he's like, oh, ah seems like it's time to move on then.
00:57:01
Speaker
Yeah. And this is often in the middle of people's stories. Yeah. yeah right You don't see how this plays out. You don't know what happens to the cursed leg. You don't know what happens with the sun.
00:57:12
Speaker
um At the same time, there's a demon hunter in a world where all demons have been extinguished. So he's trying to figure out what his purpose is now. And he's just doing his same demon expelling rituals, even though there's no demons around. um You don't see what happens to them.
00:57:29
Speaker
You go, you sit at a shrine, you meditate. The entire clearing changes. and then some other people wander into the clearing and they have their own problems yeah you never see those characters again it's a little sad but at the same time it's like oh that's well that is life it's it's clearly trying to you know say something poignant here about letting go uh and moving forward yeah i i want to i mean i want to talk about
00:58:00
Speaker
On that front, this seems as good a time as any to talk about the name of this game, which is Wanderstop. Yeah. Which reminds me of the word sojourn, right?
00:58:12
Speaker
Which is when you're in the middle of some sort of travel, in the middle of some sort of journey. A sojourn, people often misdefine this word, so that's why I'm defining it. I'm sorry. yeah um A sojourn is when you stop at a place for sort a short amount of time yeah before continuing to go on.
00:58:31
Speaker
Yeah. and
00:58:34
Speaker
that is what you're doing in this clearing, at this tea shop, but that is also what you're doing in the stories ah that ah in the stories of these people's lives.
00:58:49
Speaker
You are you were stopping, you know, your journeys are colliding for a short amount of time. And then they move on.
00:59:01
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's like a bed and breakfast, right? Somebody's on a road trip across the country. They stop in. You get to know them. And then they continue on your their journey. And you never find out where that journey goes.
00:59:14
Speaker
Yeah. I have never played a game where it is it's doing something like that, where it's not like like it's not being a Stardew Valley or Sims type of a thing where the goals are ultimately very important and you have a thousand ways to do something.
00:59:35
Speaker
um and I've never seen a game be like, no, you don't have to. yeah and it's really challenging. And I think that's why i didn't i didn't i wasn't into it at first because I'm like, where are the people?
00:59:48
Speaker
I'm not doing anything. This doesn't feel right. But why doesn't it feel right? Why can't I just enjoy this story in this cozy game? It's it's kind of challenging in that way.
01:00:01
Speaker
or I guess i but I've also never played a game where Yeah, there's like no end to the character's stories. Even in even in like simpler games on narrative like Stardew where relationships are only part ah only a part of that kind of game.
01:00:19
Speaker
um Even those characters have stories that kind of have some conclusions. Yeah. So like in this game, I've never played a game where it just i just don't know the character doesn't really have a conclusion. That's just it.
01:00:34
Speaker
yeah Yeah, they go off and they they they live their lives and you live yours and they you it's it it's separated. um And that becomes more heartbreaking as it goes on because you now that you know this is happening, now you know that this is the loop of the game, you will meet characters and start to grow attached to them.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah. um And I would say this is especially, especially true of the final customer. Yeah, it is. Yeah. um I guess there's one customer after her, but she's like clearly the focus of the final chapter.
01:01:11
Speaker
Right. um Where ah you know you're going to have to say goodbye to everybody you meet. Yeah. um I remember, okay, here's an interesting thing. I remember watching ah Battlestar Galactica with my son when he was a little younger.
01:01:29
Speaker
I don't know. Have you ever seen the... what is it Was it 2004 remake of Battlestar Galactica? A little bit, but it's been so long. Yeah. yeah um So we we watched it together.
01:01:42
Speaker
um And. ah he i remember getting towards the end. I remember watching it when I got towards the end, there's some characters who have abrupt and really disturbing endings to their stories.
01:01:57
Speaker
Yeah. um and I remember thinking, okay, like having to talk myself through it and be like, it's the last season. You were going to have to say goodbye to all these people any anyway. So just, okay, that's how her story ends.
01:02:11
Speaker
It's okay. you die It's okay, Matt. But I remember watching it with Toby then later and he, uh, got so upset when the story was over because he when the show was over because he was like feels like saying it feels like I just lost a bunch of friends feels like I have to I'm saying goodbye to a bunch of friends and at the end of Battlestar Galactica they all go off on so in separate directions yeah and he's like and it feels like They all lost each other.
01:02:41
Speaker
And I like, I just remember him being so heartbroken and like knowing, watching that show and being like, there's some adult stuff in here. So we're going to have to pause after every episode and talk about some of these adult things. Cause he was, I don't know, whatever, 10 or 11 at the time.
01:02:56
Speaker
um But the thing I did not foresee was that what would hurt him the most is getting attached to these characters and then having to leave them forever. That is, I can relate to that, honestly. I even felt that way a little bit um about the Guild, which is Felicia Day's web series. it It was like one of the first, I think, web series where there were like little sketches YouTube.
01:03:26
Speaker
And those characters really evolve over time. And in the end, you know, people go their separate ways. people and And I'm not saying like in that in that show they went completely separate, but there was like an ending to it. There was like a finality to it yeah where, oh, they might they might not play World of Warcraft together anymore. They have grown and changed in all these different ways. and That's ultimately a good thing.
01:03:52
Speaker
but it's, you know, but yeah, it's sad. Change is sad. It's hard. And we're talking about these stories where people do have ends, too. That's the thing. we're Like, that's another thing. We're talking about how sad it is when to say goodbye to people when you know why they're moving on and you know what the end of their story is.
01:04:09
Speaker
And in Wanderstop, you just don't. Yeah, that's true. I think like the the closest thing you maybe get is there's like a mail system.
01:04:20
Speaker
And I know at some point the night with the cursed leg, he did like send me a letter in a different season. Oh, i I either didn't get that or going click through a couple of the letters.
01:04:36
Speaker
It's all good. Yeah, I think he did. I mean, you still you never see him again. But you do get like a letter, which I thought was sweet. That is good. Yeah. um At some point, we are going to talk about... we've We're going to have to talk about the stuff that you get in the mail and read.
01:04:58
Speaker
yeah Because it's incredible. It's some of the funniest shit. Yeah. But okay, but... um Maybe that should be at the end of our discussion. Sure, sure. um Yeah.
01:05:14
Speaker
The thing earlier I hinted towards this idea that it's it's lack of ga like actual gameplay hooks that um I found super compelling was maybe a knock against this game. Not just because, you know, whatever. Not just like, oh, get all games have to be fun or whatever.
01:05:35
Speaker
But I think specifically maybe this game had to be fun. and Because if what it's trying to say to you is you should only be playing this game for the sake of playing this game. You should not be playing this game and to get to an ending or to feel some sense of accomplishment at the end because we don't want to give you that. That's not yeah that's not what you're here for you are here...
01:05:59
Speaker
to actualize in the moment. but um If that's what they're trying to say, then I think it needed to be... I think the gameplay itself needed to be fun enough that that was viable.
01:06:19
Speaker
Sure. I see what you're saying. And it's hard to talk about that without thinking like, oh, we missed the point then. Yes. You know what mean? Like, oh, we're just missing the point. Yes. But, you know, I do get, I do think there needs to be some degree of
01:06:35
Speaker
Gameplay. Yeah. Like you said, there is, there is a little bit of a lack of gameplay that is on purpose. It's not, you know, ah I wouldn't call it like a mistake or an oversight. I just wonder if there could be a little bit more.
01:06:52
Speaker
Yeah. But it also, you know, and and on the topic of missing the point, um which me and you talked about, I think, yeah, even before we started,
01:07:04
Speaker
um
01:07:07
Speaker
recording um that idea of like oh man any criticism this game almost feels like we're missing the point which is funny because it makes the game almost impervious to criticism which is such like a funny thing to do but anyway um uh so but that's that's an interesting thing talking about missing the point is like it makes you question why certain things in other games are even fun Like, why is it fun to play? And I know I talked about this on a previous episode.
01:07:38
Speaker
Why is it fun to play Stardew Valley and water all my crops just so I can make money to buy a thing that'll water my crops for me?
01:07:49
Speaker
I'm going to be honest with you. Am I saying then that? Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. I don't know if it's fun. right I don't actually don't know. And like i I have OCD.
01:08:00
Speaker
So I wonder. Yeah. like yeah i saw I really do. like Sometimes I wonder, am I having fun or if or am I just grinding with this intensity because like I'm anxious and I need to feel a thing. It's like that dopamine hit.
01:08:15
Speaker
And that's exactly I think that's exactly what Wanderstop is saying. Yeah. Right? And... and So I think there's this i this idea that's being um ah communicated here, which is like, why... and this is all subtext. It's not explicit in the game. But it's like, why is why is it fun?
01:08:37
Speaker
if i if all I'm trying to do is raise the money to get a thing that waters my crops for me, then I'm telling myself watering the crops isn't fun. So why am I watering the crops for hours and hours and hours?
01:08:51
Speaker
or Or like it's important because there is a tangible reward at the end. Right. And is that a good enough motivation for us to play a game? And yet we do. I know. Are we just simulating things?
01:09:05
Speaker
are we just simulating the oppression that we live in daily? Like, are we just simulating capitalism? Is this just like, is this just a do we use games as a form of therapy to process the trauma of capitalism?
01:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I do. I use games as therapy for a lot of stuff, to be honest. And whether I, you know, that can be unhealthy or it can be healthy. It can be, it can go either way, but,
01:09:37
Speaker
i think like yeah I think it is really more about getting that dopamine hit. Because we are we are living... And I i know I'm going to sound like old man yells a cloud. for just Just bear with me.
01:09:48
Speaker
We're definitely living in ah time where we're constantly getting dopamine hits. So we need to keep chasing a different way to do it.
01:09:59
Speaker
We can be on our phone and get a dopamine hit. We can be we can watch... any streaming service, we can find almost anything to watch that we might want. um We have music at the, you know, the palm of our hands. Like we are living in an age where dopamine is almost constant.
01:10:17
Speaker
So we're also desensitizing ourself a little bit, meaning we have to find a new way to get it. I mean, that's why people doom scroll, right? They're just waiting. They're waiting for something to hit them, just something.
01:10:29
Speaker
And how much is dopamine this dopamine addiction just a supplement to the fact that we again live in a society where we toil and toil and toil for very little reward yeah right we work every i mean some of us anyway work every single day um That wasn't a dig at people who don't.
01:10:56
Speaker
Like, sorry. Well, some of us. That wasn't a dig at people who have found other ah ways to make money like that. youve You fucking yeah okay congrats. like I wish that we all had that.
01:11:08
Speaker
um But yeah, some of us, um you know, go into work every single day, take home a paycheck that only gives us enough money to pay for our house and our car to get back to work.
01:11:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um And again, it feels like that's... So when we get these dopamine hits from everything these days, is that just because we are... Again, we're traumatized by this lack of true satisfaction.
01:11:40
Speaker
Yeah. And I think Wanderstop is really challenging us to just be okay with slowing down like just a little bit. like You can feel good. Without constantly seeking reward.
01:11:53
Speaker
Mm-hmm. and that and And maybe that becomes the reward. you know Rest becomes the reward. I think as a society, we're kind of weird about rewards. I think we're both millennials and we kind of grew up with this treat yourself mentality and kind of the skewing of self-care over time.
Societal Norms and Rest
01:12:15
Speaker
yeah um And you know I grew up in therapy. So for me, self-care is getting in the shower, um taking really taking care of myself.
01:12:22
Speaker
It is not... eating five brownies. I would like to do that. And it sounds amazing. It is not self-care. Yeah. Can I please have five brownies? I would love five. for We'll add it to our pizza order. Five brownies each. Five brownies each. Yes. 100%. So we of live in this age where rewards are something that um so yeah we we kind of live in this age where rewards are something that are almost kind of insane and exaggerated, you know, treat yourself to this, like in parks and rec, for example, Ben treats himself to an entire Batman uniform. These are rewards that are really important.
01:13:03
Speaker
ah more rewarding than they have to be and I'm not saying don't treat yourself ever absolutely treat yourself especially if you have especially if you have feelings of like low self-worth and you you need to be able to do that but you know I think Wanderstop not giving us that like special kind of reward is really kind of profound in in a video game Yeah.
01:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and I guess ah what, one of the things wander stop, I think is maybe asking us and well if you, if you'll permit my anthropologist to come out ah for a minute, please um is that this idea of should rest be a reward or should rest be the natural state and work yeah is a thing for a very specific purpose.
01:13:53
Speaker
um Like, Before, i mean, there was, for the majority of human history, right, um in foraging societies, you would, you know, there was no such thing as surplus. When you wanted food, right you would go get the food.
01:14:12
Speaker
Right. And then you might save some of the, like, when things were starting to get cold or something, you might save some food. and ah But you would go get the food, eat the food, and then You'd spend most of the day resting.
01:14:29
Speaker
Your life was rest. And the other, you know, like the minor... part of it was work but we have changed the formula so much where almost our entire lives are work and the the minimum amount of our life and this thing that we consider a reward this thing that society tells us is a reward like i'll work hard and you'll get you'll get your rest like you'll get your you know your food work really hard and you'll get your treat like are
01:15:05
Speaker
have broken, like this is a this is ah broken formula. Yeah. it' says We have a, ah that is ah the way we have all, we've internalized this idea that that is normal and that is okay, rather than this idea of like, shouldn't we, we only live once, shouldn't we enjoy life? Like, isn't life for enjoying? Is life for toiling or is life for enjoying? Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:35
Speaker
Which is why people, you know, whether or not you believe in this stuff, it whether it's true or not, I'll say this, it would have to have been invented anyway. This is like the reason for religion, right? Like, oh, if you toil really hard, you'll get your reward yeah the afterlife um is just a reaction to the idea of like, okay, yeah, life is starting to suck for all of us.
01:15:59
Speaker
Yeah. So we need to tell people that there needs to be, we need to feel like we're working towards something. Yeah. um Yeah. I mean, there is that idea of like, well, what's the point then if we're not working towards something?
01:16:13
Speaker
And I think there's merit to that, right? I think there's merit to giving yourself goals. Like um a current goal I have is to get better and pottery. it's it's But, you know, that's also a personal goal, you know, set for myself that isn't necessarily toiling all the time. I'm not necessarily being punished for it. I'm just, that's just my personal goal.
01:16:35
Speaker
um I just think maybe sometimes we go a little bit too far. into yeah like we, like we said, like rewards and what is a natural state.
01:16:46
Speaker
We should just be able to rest. Another one is food. Food shouldn't be a reward. yeah And that's a big one kind of in my, in my world, you know, having had an eating disorder where food was a reward.
01:16:59
Speaker
And so food became a reward. It also became a comfort. It also became an addiction, something you rely on. But really, it should just be... Yes, you should enjoy food. Absolutely. We're going to eat pizza and brownies and we're going to fucking love it.
01:17:13
Speaker
But it shouldn't be a reward. This should just be a natural thing that you do in your life. you shouldn't have to earn it. and Yeah, you shouldn't have to earn Shelter? Food?
01:17:24
Speaker
Like... we We shouldn't have to toil every day just to get shelter and food. And I want to say, um we're speaking very high-minded here.
01:17:36
Speaker
i'm We're not above it, right? We are living in that world. So all of my goals are still toil and reward related, right? Yeah. Like all of my the things that motivate me on a daily basis are – Within this framework because I live in... This is the world this is the world I live in.
01:17:54
Speaker
Yeah. ah So... You know, ah I'm not... This game... This game didn't heal me. Right. I don't know that it's going to heal anybody. Right.
01:18:08
Speaker
And I don't know, again, i don't know that you can be healed while living in this world that works the way this world does. Yeah. i don't think it's possible.
01:18:19
Speaker
I think there are certain things you can do that the game is kind of encouraging you
Embracing Life Pivots and Career Changes
01:18:25
Speaker
to do. um Like letting go of maybe certain toxic thoughts or...
01:18:30
Speaker
What I took almost immediately, because this is something as we get older, as as kind of older millennials, is what am I going to do with my life? And I think Wander Stop really encourages almost immediately that pivoting, even temporarily, even a temporary pivot is o okay.
01:18:49
Speaker
You don't need to, if you're unhappy with something, you do not need to stick with that thing. There are other things that you are good at. And I think this is like, I think this is a thing for many millenial millennials. I don't really know why, but the imposter syndrome is real.
01:19:07
Speaker
And, yeah you know, we feel like we're not good at anything and we've got this one thing and we have to toil at it until forever. um But I really appreciate it, especially i had just put out a video that talks about like career paths and is that okay to do it? And am I too old to do it? Is it too late?
01:19:26
Speaker
You know, I think part of this character's um issue is that she puts so much time and effort into becoming something and now she feels that's going to be a waste of time.
01:19:38
Speaker
But it's not. It's not a waste of time. It's just you're doing something different now and that's okay. Yeah.
01:19:46
Speaker
Yeah. um I mean, yeah, I am also potentially in the
01:19:56
Speaker
in the process of
Humorous Game Elements and Parodies
01:19:59
Speaker
pivoting, right? Like I i wouldn't i i went to school late um and I got a degree and something that has nothing to do with the job that I have. Yeah. um But I don't know.
01:20:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's This game is a lot. Hey, it is a lot. Do we want to take a break from the heavy stuff here and talk about the absolutely hilarious shit in this game?
01:20:26
Speaker
Yeah, it is a funny game. um What is this? The same writers as the Stanley parable, right? Correct. Or the same designers. So it does have a very good sense of humor. Yes, there is a series of books that That you get in the mail in this game. And I i don't often read books in games.
01:20:49
Speaker
I don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I'm not a big fan of that mechanic either. ah But I read the books in this game because they are so fucking funny.
01:21:02
Speaker
there's There's a series of ah action novels about a guy named Dirk Warhard, who is obsessed with himself. He's obsessed with Dirk Warhard. And he is, ah he goes on these, he's like impossibly skilled at the things he does. He goes on these insane missions. And ah it's just this, it's this parody of like thriller fiction.
01:21:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. That is so, so fucking funny. if it If it relates to the themes of the games in some way, I couldn't discern it. To me, it's just like, hey, it's a wander stop. It's a sojourn from the game where you just kind of like read these books and they make you... Like, I laughing out loud.
01:21:48
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, no, it does... it does are you So this is different from the detective, right? Dirk Warhard? No, he is the detective. He is the detective. I just remember laughing so hard because... he's a detective and a secret agent. He's an astronaut at some point. He's everything.
01:22:11
Speaker
Oh, he's one of those characters. Yeah, he's so funny. You find like lost parcels throughout the world and you can like mail them back. And if you mail them back, you get like responses from that. And I remember just laughing so hard because like one of them was like, you found the evidence needed to like prosecute this person or like solve this case. I'm like, I did?
01:22:34
Speaker
I just thought it was so cute. And like, well, that's That's lovely. I like this little this little world, I think, that the designers are building here.
01:22:45
Speaker
and Can I read a short passage of Dirk Warhard just to get people like like the the the tone of these books? Because I feel i i have this fear that people are going to hear, oh, yeah, i bet they're I bet they're funny, and then not read them. But they are yeah so fucking funny. So um as he stepped out of the limo, the sun shone brightly into his eyes.
01:23:04
Speaker
Dirk Warhard hated the sun more than he hated anything in the world. He'd been told many times to stop looking directly into the sun, but to turn his back on an enemy was cowardice. He could never forgive pulsing with rage from the Dirk Warhard undercover method. Dirk Warhard pulled a pistol from his tuxedo jacket and fired 10 rounds directly into the heart of the sun.
01:23:24
Speaker
oh He holstered the pistol and stepped into the party shortly after entering. He met. He was met by the host. I'm going to skip a little bit. Howdy, he said to her. My name is Bobby Briggleston.
01:23:35
Speaker
But his name was not Bobby Briggleston. That was only his undercover alias. His name was Dirk Warhard. Dirk Warhard thought to himself, I'm Dirk Warhard. And then continued the conversation.
01:23:50
Speaker
I love it. Yeah, that's that's actually a good passage that sets the tone for the type of humor that that you're going to experience. It's yeah. I mean, like all the conversations with the characters and stuff are funny, too. But I do yourself a favor and read these books. Yeah.
01:24:09
Speaker
So good. I also liked I liked there. I think we spoke about this in the other episode, but there's this um merchant, this older lady merchant.
01:24:19
Speaker
Yeah. Who's so salty and crabby, but she also likes you and you can kind of tell, but she's like, she's got a little bit of a guise on about it. And she says she's going to like take down your shop by selling all this stuff. And we, she never sells us anything. If anything, she gives us stuff for free.
01:24:39
Speaker
She's like, ah, yeah, take this thing. I'm like, all right. And I love that. I love that character. That's, yes. That character is so, that character rules. She thinks she's in a trade war with you. Yeah.
01:24:52
Speaker
And so she asks you what the most valuable thing you have on you is. And whatever you give to her, she basically, she'll come back to you later. She'll be like, ah, sucker, I tricked you into giving giving me an expensive thing. I gave you a worthless thing. And later she'll come back to you and and she's like, that was even more, it was worth even more than you thought.
01:25:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I, like, literally I gave her, like, a leaf. i yeah
01:25:18
Speaker
I gave her one of my seeds. I had 30 others. Oh, I remember. I gave her a mug. i like, gave her one of the mugs from... Just a regular fucking mug.
01:25:30
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah. yeah Yeah, it's funny. It's really cute. I think this game succeeds on a lot of levels. Because even if... Even the ways that we're talking about how it might not succeed, right?
01:25:43
Speaker
the ways where it could be improved and where it doesn't quite hit its mark. um
01:25:51
Speaker
There's not a lot of games that can make you think that hard about that. Yeah. Right. Right. Like it succeeds in putting you deep enough into the psychology, ah the, the, the, the literary, you know,
01:26:08
Speaker
ah merit of their point. Yeah. That you start debating with it about how well it's doing the thing it taught you.
01:26:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um... it's i Yeah, I think it makes it special yeah in that way. i think this is a special game, and I really like the heart that that went into it.
01:26:31
Speaker
Also, there's Pluffins. i We almost didn't say it. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Pluffins and Game Mechanics
01:26:35
Speaker
like Why don't we wrap up on Pluffins? On Pluffins. They're so cute. think that was one of the first things I texted you about. I'm like, there's Pluffins in this game.
01:26:45
Speaker
Yes, definitely. Tell us about Pluffins. So pluffins are these cute little penguin slash puffin type of of animal that they seem to have an understanding of like where they are. They really like tea. like You can give them tea. You can feed them tea.
01:27:02
Speaker
And depending on which tea you give them, they'll change colors, and it's really cute, and you can take care of them, and you can pet them, and they yeah they find you seeds and gloss parcels. Look, they're not a big part of the game, okay? Yeah.
01:27:16
Speaker
but they're adorable and they give the, the area a little bit more personality because there aren't that many characters on screen, but you can always find a pluffin. Yes.
01:27:28
Speaker
Um, Yeah, you can feed them tea and they change colors. Sometimes they find stuff on the ground and you pick them up and you got to shake them. Oh, you got to shake them. Yeah. And they have such grumpy faces like they'll follow you. If you feed them tea, they'll follow you around looking for tea for the rest of the like, the not the rest of the thing, but for a long, long time.
01:27:48
Speaker
yeah and But they have such grumpy faces. So even though they're happy, they look so mad at you for giving them the thing they wanted. They have angry eyebrows, like constantly yeah angry eyebrows.
01:28:00
Speaker
They're, they, yeah, they're, they're adorable. They're so cute. I love the pluffins. And like, uh, there is a quest it's, it's, it's optional. You don't have to do it but there's a quest in one of the seasons where like, you have to she like make as many colored pluffins as you can.
01:28:18
Speaker
So like make an orange pluffin or a purple pluffin and feed the pluffins. Cause they're hungry. they I just love them. Also, did you notice that...
01:28:30
Speaker
Every season it changes. Does the setting change a little bit? Like do things, like the Pluffin Ranch is different from the last season? Okay. Yes. every the the The layout of the play. Again, yeah also playing this so slow, I think helped me realize that because I did take time to get used to the layouts.
01:28:52
Speaker
Yeah. um And so, yeah, it was like I would go to where I knew the... You can plant stuff literally anywhere. Yes. But there's this there's a spot that is specifically like designed for your planting in it.
01:29:07
Speaker
Yeah. um and So I went to my... Yeah, like my garden plot. It was just something different there. I know. That also kind of plays with you a little bit and kind of you know encourages acceptance of change. It's like, well, but I was familiar with that. Well,
01:29:25
Speaker
It's again, they didn't want this game to be pump. They didn't want this game to become habit. Yeah. Yeah.
01:29:34
Speaker
habit yeah um And they do all these little things like that to prevent it from becoming one. You can't. Also, we didn't say this. When you meditate and that the scene shifts, you lose all your inventory.
01:29:46
Speaker
That made me so sad. ah So you can't like build this massive farm. Yeah. And end up with all the stock so that when somebody asks for a type of tea, you just have it.
01:29:59
Speaker
Even the inventory you get from like the merchant. Like, you'll get, like, a real cool mug. ah No, it's gonna be gone. Which made me say, I found some really cool mugs in that game, I gotta say. And there's a point where Bufo asks you to do something.
01:30:14
Speaker
i'm sorry, say his name again, Matt. Bufo? What is his name? What, did I say it wrong? think his name is Bufo? It's Boro. Bufo is the character from fucking...
01:30:27
Speaker
Boof. You're thinking of from Dare to Dream. I'm thinking of Boof from fucking Dare to Dream. Oh, my God. I was also just thinking about Boof. That's wild, man. Okay.
01:30:39
Speaker
Oh, that game. Foro. Foro, yeah. Jesus Christ. We'll come to you, and he'll ask you to do this, like, oh, plant can you plant ah nice plants in all these pots over around here? Yeah. And the first time he asks you that, you say to him,
01:30:55
Speaker
um well won't they just disappear anyway? yeah like And he's like, well, does that mean that it's not worthwhile? Yeah. ah And again, it's another point of the game.
01:31:09
Speaker
Just because you lose a cool mug that you got doesn't mean that it wasn't worthwhile that you had a cool mug. Yeah. Yeah. It's... It makes me feel a certain type of way. I'll say that. yeah It's a real fascinating game. i think...
01:31:27
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if I'm if this is a game where i'm like, everyone should play it. Right. It's it is a game where it feels like it would be. I think this game would have value for anybody.
01:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, I do, too.
Reflecting on Game’s Personal Value
01:31:42
Speaker
um Anything else to say before we wrap up? think I just love that you called him Boofoo. I want to draw fan art. I say this like every episode. I'm like, want to draw fan art of that thing. And then I don't.
01:31:56
Speaker
um But no, i I think this game does have a lot of value. i think it's worth. I recommend it personally. I think there's value in it. And I would love to hear other people's thoughts and you know analysis on some of these themes. Mm-hmm.
01:32:13
Speaker
Do you have anything else to say? No, I think i think i think we've said it all. Are you still thinking about pizza? Yes. I know. I'm hungry. guess that's why we had a hard time like thinking of thoughts.
01:32:27
Speaker
Yeah, and it's late. We recorded this one late, so we shouldn't be hungry. Yeah. It's not dinner time. No, it is not. It is past dinner time, but this is where we are. And I'm very hungry. I'm going to eat so much after we've we get off.
01:32:42
Speaker
ah
01:32:45
Speaker
Hey, thank you guys for listening. um we appreciate you every single week i know we were ragging on ah ah youtube commenter at the beginning um we still love you though yeah we love you and i i meant it as as critical as i was with that guy i was also attempting to be self-deprecating about how we went on and on and on about hair ah
01:33:10
Speaker
but uh
01:33:13
Speaker
But, you know, I love doing this podcast and I love that you guys listen and you get something out of it. So thank you
Podcast Promotion and Listener Encouragement
01:33:18
Speaker
for listening. And um feel free to email us, mattandroses at gmail.com. Check us out on Instagram.
01:33:24
Speaker
Save your game podcast. Yep. He finally got it. After what all these episodes, you know the name of our podcast. Or our Instagram, rather. Like always, if you like the show, share it with some people. Tell people about it.
01:33:37
Speaker
every Everybody let one friend know. How about that? How about that's your action item this week, people? Everybody go to one friend and be like, hey, I don't know if you like this or not, but there's this cool podcast I like.
01:33:49
Speaker
And there's reward for it, but. yeah just Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just, hey, or, you know, or say to your follow, like if you're on social media, i say to your social media followers, hey, there's this podcast I like. Or again, just go to one friend and be like, hey, I know you like video games. You might like this.
01:34:06
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. um Show it to your parents even.
01:34:12
Speaker
Introduce us to your parents. though ah Parents love us. Yeah, it's true. i mean, they might like you. I'm a little... I'm a little harder to get used to. want those tattoos.
Concluding Thoughts on Art and Suffering
01:34:27
Speaker
I, ah again, i am, I've had a bit of a tough week, so I don't have offhand a political action to push you guys towards.
01:34:38
Speaker
ah And I apologize for that. I'll try to have something for next week, um but, you know, just keep, stay frosty, stay informed.
01:34:48
Speaker
And stay sane. Like, ah you know, again, if if we're going to have to resist for four years or whatever. Yeah. Maybe play some Wanderstop.
01:34:59
Speaker
Yeah. hey yeah it weren't Take a week off. Hey, if you've done all the other political stuff that I've ah pushed you towards, this week, let's all take a week off. I mean, I am taking a week off. So, um yeah.
01:35:12
Speaker
I encourage this greatly. um So, ah guess there's only one thing left to say. What's that?
01:35:25
Speaker
Well...
01:35:28
Speaker
Podcast is art. That is so profound, Matt. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You know what? You know what I think? I've been working on it all week. You have? Mm-hmm. Gold star.
01:35:40
Speaker
Well, I think that... Don't give me a gold star. We don't want rewards for... right, I'm ripping it out of your hands and throwing it on the ground. How? Do you know why?
01:35:50
Speaker
Because art is suffer. Yeah.