Transcript
Speaker: back in the room uh back in the room and it's uh this week it's just me um amy's doing other things so uh this week and next week it is just you and me and uh i'm glad that you're here joining me keeping me company uh while i do this uh summer special of uh adhdville
Speaker: Here we are. Here we are. So the question I kind of thought, I might focus on one thing this week. And the thing I thought about was, why do we rehearse conversations that are never going to happen?
Speaker: All right, seagulls and sea, be gone.
Speaker: there we go.
Speaker: Right, so I don't know about you, but I will rehearse conversations over and over and over again. um And it's something I've done for like forever.
Speaker: I mean, you know, it could be like, you know, a conversation I've just had, I'm just replaying over and over and thinking, yeah, God damn it. That was a really, I could have said this here. I could have said that there, but I didn't. Or it could be an ah up and coming conversation.
Speaker: Like, yeah, Sorry, I had to um had a conversation with my like psychologist ah earlier on today and I spent quite a little bit of time thinking about that.
Speaker: what What was I going to say? What were they possibly going to say? What was going to be my reply to what they might say? And all this takes up a lot of my brain.
Speaker: um So i guess the question is, why in the hell do we do this? um And is ADHD making it worse?
Speaker: Well, let's get into it, shall we? So I think one thing is that we have to establish that there are several things going on at the same time. So not every imaginary conversation is the same.
Speaker: and So as I said, you'll get some conversations that are replaying what I should have said. And my God, it's like I can even think of these conversations going back I think I was like seven or eight.
Speaker: It goes that far back. um You know, a... a teacher asking me well yeah it was like a sort of health thing and it was about cutting your nails right and it was like what do you do are you are you supposed to like cut them straight across do you like form a little little roundy shape and uh i said you cut it you you cut your nail so it's a it's a roundy shape
Speaker: And apparently I was wrong. Apparently I was supposed to cut it straight across. and And I replay that conversation. Hmm. Best part of like 50 odd years.
Speaker: because ah I think because I kind of felt like I was right, because every day I see people with rounded nails and no one with nails cut off straight, just a straight cut.
Speaker: it made no sense and it's bugged me for like I haven't been able to let it go
Speaker: Jesus Christ. Anyway, so there's those replay conversations about what I should have said. ah There's the rehearsals conversations, which is like preparing for what might happen yeah for a conversation that's coming up. There is ah the imaginary conversation, which is actually the argument, which is like almost like winning have you ever had this, like where where you're having an argument with some person?
Speaker: It could be a fictitious or a real person or whatever, but you kind of conjure them up in your mind. Then you have an argument with them in your head.
Speaker: um There is also the explanation argument, which is the ah where you repeatedly explain yourself to an imaginary audience.
Speaker: You know, why did you do this? Why am I here? what why why Why have you run out? Why didn't you pay the bill? Why are you out of meds? And you like, you just like, rip you just like rip replay that over and over and over again about how you're kind of trying to explain yourself there's also the the disaster version which is where you imagine in the in a conversation everything that could go wrong so in an up and coming conversation it's like well what if they say this what if they bring up that thing that i did back in 1997 what what if they talk about art mildred
Speaker: whatever it is um you know like you're having that conversation and then there's the fantasy version where you know the fantasy you says the perfect thing you've already thought it out you've replayed the conversation and you're replaying it out again but you're saying all the right things this time and and the person that you're having a conversation with does the thing that you want them to do, gets it or is rebuked or whatever it is.
Speaker: um So there's a whole bunch there of possible imaginary conversations that you may have with real people or people.
Speaker: fantasy people in in your head. So so what is what is going on? What is going on? i mean that So the first suspect, the first place we could look is working memory.
Speaker: So that's So that's a little bit of your brain that it kind of processes what is going on at that current moment in time.
Speaker: And one ADHD possibility is that I need to work this out now because I won't remember it later. So... you you kind of you know you probably done so so you mentally practice what you're going to say you're effectively holding the conversation like in your little working memory come part of your brain and you and you might rehearse that point repeatedly because you know because we've In the heat of the moment of a this discussion, or it's not the heat of moment, it's like the anxiety of the conversation.
Speaker: You might lose your train of thought. You might forget the thing. You might get this distracted. You might become... um you might become emotional um and ah yeah and when the conversation comes you might fail to articulate whatever it is that you were going to say so so you kind of rehearse it so that you can kind of almost burn your the points that you want to make into your head so that you don't forget and then one interesting thought that kind of came out of that was
Speaker: are we rehearsing the conversation or rehearsing access to our own thoughts which is like sometimes you must have to have that conversation in your head, that fantasy, that rehearse the conversation to actually, and have that back and forth to actually know what you're even thinking or what your point of of of of very ah your point of view is. so you So it kind of becomes quite helpful in that way to actually know what's going on in you.
Speaker: The second thing that it could be, um emotional regulation. So if someone says something relatively small, the conversation ends, your but your brain doesn't. like There's been something about that conversation that kind of made you a little anxious,
Speaker: They said something in a certain way, kind of implied something else. Uh, and your brain kind of like is worried about it and it kind of just plays back the conversation over and over to kind of like work out what is this unresolved thing in this conversation so you you have an emotional state about you're in an emotional state about the conversation so you kind of like have to replay it because it doesn't feel finished until you've worked out what it is that was going on and then you go oh okay i think i know what was going on there and then your brain can kind of like let that conversation go
Speaker: um
Speaker: So, yeah, what's the ah other other thing? It's like there's this,
Speaker: how many times have we had a conversation and then thought about the perfect comeback for that conversation? It's like, oh, God damn it, I should have said this. I should have mentioned the other thing. I should have, oh, why, why?
Speaker: um those things can like really haunt. They can really haunt me.
Speaker: just replaying conversations that, as I said, can go back decades that, you know where i should have come back with something, certainly during an argument, but, but I didn't.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Because the problem is, is that, you know, if you are having like an emotional conversation, like, ah and it's, you know, maybe it's like a a tense conversation. It's an argument.
Speaker: a... it's a It's very focused in some way. It doesn't necessarily have to be a argument. But your brain is like, it's just processing the as fast as it can all of this stuff, not only what they're saying, but how they're looking, where their eyes are.
Speaker: You're taking in all of this information and there's not a lot of brain left. to actually process the goddamn conversation that you're currently in You know, ah yeah you're listening, you're trying to remember your points, you're deciding what you should say.
Speaker: um and then after the conversation's gone, after you've finished that conversation, you walk away, all that pressure disappears.
Speaker: And your brain... now has processing space to actually think about what it is that you should have said or how you should have replied. And it's like, well, fantastic.
Speaker: Fake your brain. um You know, that would have been useful in the conversation, not two days afterwards.
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, like... our brain We kind of wish that our brain could could run all of these different, just monitor all this different stuff all at the same time, but it it it can't and it will it will choose the thing that there.
Speaker: that is uh dealing with what is happening right now rather than thinking about what what you should be saying about the perfect comeback whatever it is it's just dealing with the anxiety of the of the of the moment which which which kind of leads me on to like think about um more like that that ah RSD, the rejection-sensitive dysphoria.
Speaker: um This is an and in in interesting topic. So RSD, rejection-sensitive dysphoria. Now, I should say that this is not like a standalone...
Speaker: psychologically recognized condition, if that's a proper terminology. um what it What it is, is is like a it's an in an informal grouping of different people part ah of of of different um things that are going on. So ah how it typically comes to life is is we are we are um we feel really rejected or we feel anxiety about being really rejected in some way.
Speaker: um and that comes from from in emotional dysregulation. It comes from sensitivity to to to criticism, from previous experiences of rejection, um anxiety, ro rumination.
Speaker: so you know, and... and
Speaker: it is quite common i am for people who are neurodive diversion to kind of have this collection of, of, uh, let's say issues. They are kind of issues. Yeah. They're, they're like little patterns of thought and behavior.
Speaker: Um, so it's like, ah if your boss or if someone in in or authority wants to speak to you um in their office whatever, and then your immediate thought was like, what the hell have I done wrong?
Speaker: I'm going to have to start, you know, right am I getting fired? Am I in trouble? I'm going to have to kind of like build a defense. What what could possibly have happened? You know, all this stuff.
Speaker: stuff goes on in your brain, you know, and even if it's like things like, well, you know, I want to put something out into the world. I want to do a, I want to do a little tick tock. I want to, I want to put some art out or I want to, um, uh, write something, whatever it is, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to put it out into the world, but I'm scared that people are just going to like,
Speaker: you know, laugh at me, so so I won't. So when it comes down to imaginary conversations, you know, it does become, know, why did they say that?
Speaker: Do they dislike me? Did I embarrass myself? um I should have explained X, Y and Z.
Speaker: and And those are the kind of, comp so RSD can generate all these conversations in your in your head about what bla what is going going on and you kind of feel like, yeah,
Speaker: it feels like you are being a being attacked and you kind of have to like, have to shore yourself up and the taf if defend yourself. So having these conversations in your head kind of like helps with the anxiety of it because you feel like you are protecting yourself in some way.
Speaker: um And I think that kind of like explaining yourself is is also an important part of it because ah
Speaker: because imaginary conversations aren't always arguments. Sometimes they're just giving a defense speech like why you forgot, why you're late, why you reacted.
Speaker: that way. Why you, well, what you actually meant, why something is hard, hard for you. Um, and I think if you if you are neurodivergent, this is something that you get a lot.
Speaker: Why you like this? Why, why, why do you keep losing your keys? why why is your car running so low on gas? Why didn't you pay that bill?
Speaker: Um, And so we we we spend our lives trying to or end up explaining ourselves and...
Speaker: when you have a when When you are ADHD and you've had ADHD your entire life, that means you feel misunderstood. You get called lazy, careless, rude.
Speaker: um And so you you end up having to repeatedly explain your you behavior. um You rehearse these things.
Speaker: these explaining conversations in your in your head so that you can kind of pull them out of the bag when you when you have to in the heat of the of the of the the moment And here's an interesting question that kind of comes out of that. If you've spent your life explaining yourself to other people, do you eventually start doing it when they're not there?
Speaker: Right? So that means you've been so used to people going, what are you doing? Why did you do that? And you have to explain your yourself that even when they're not there,
Speaker: That is your automatic mode that you're in, a perpetual explaining your yourself, and that becomes your baseline.
Speaker: It's an interesting kind of thought, isn't it?
Speaker: And so on on the next the next chapter heading I have, mental stimulation, this isn't necessarily dysfunctional. So I think, you know, like there's there's a, just because you have conversations in your head doesn't mean there's something weird or wrong with you because all humans do it. We all rehearse mentally mentally.
Speaker: first. So I can easily think of like, you know, if I was a salesman and I was going to go and do a sales pitch, I would already have that rehearsed in my head. I would have any possible questions that were being put to me.
Speaker: I would already anticipate what they were and I would anticipate what their answers are going to to be. If I was a neurodivergent person, i was going to phone up my phone
Speaker: No, if I was a neurotypical person, sorry, and I was going to phone up my neurotypical friend, um i may just make sure that I run down the conversation in my head so that I've kind of got the topics that i want to talk about.
Speaker: i want to meet, you know, ah do they want to go out for a drink? Let's fix a time. Let's fix a place. Let's make a plan. And you'll have that little checklist in your head. You know, we...
Speaker: Everyone will rehearse conversations in their head to kind of like to test possible outcomes. What if someone says this? What if someone says says that? so And we were and we as I said, we rehearse our risk risk responses. So this is all normal. It's not weird. But what becomes interesting from a neurodivergent point of view is...
Speaker: you can spend way too much of your brain energy doing it, like way beyond what is functionally useful.
Speaker: Like me going over a conversation I had with a teacher when I was seven about how you should cut your nails should not be occupying my brain. Now I'm like 61.
Speaker: But yet there it is. You know, and that's just one of many conversations that I randomly hold in my head. It's almost like, it's almost like,
Speaker: If you went into my brain and there's like a series of rooms and you walk down the corridor and you open up open up a door and then there's like me and someone else having a conversation. I'm just like replaying this conversation over and over again. I shut that door, go into a different one. Same thing happening. It's like there's just loads of rooms in my head where conversations are going on all the time.
Speaker: it's It's nuts.
Speaker: So, you know, it is really strange, you know, the these these people that we have the conversations with in our heads. So when ah when I, as I said, when you go in the corridor and the rooms of my mind, there's ah there's me having an argument with someone.
Speaker: And that someone, that person that we're having an argument with, isn't a real person. person they're not they they don't behave like real people you know my the imaginary ah opponent always says exactly what is necessary for my brilliant a response um because I'm writing both of the characters I'm writing me in this conversation and I'm writing them
Speaker: which means I'm not actually really per predicting what is going on. It's kind of like a, a a play that I'm putting on in my head.
Speaker: um But,
Speaker: yeah and Sometimes I'm not actually talking to them ah at all. I'm talking to a represented a representation of them. And and these things can, and what I do get out of it is that they can...
Speaker: they will sometimes resolve something internally so i as i said before i might feel bugged about a conversation and i will just replay it and replay it till it makes sense and then i can put it to bed and sometimes they don't they just they just sit there and of lifetime of these conversations that are just running around my head. Some are useful and some are not.
Speaker: So I guess what, what can i do about this? What can i do about this? What what can we do about this? um And I, one thing is am i when these conversations come up in my head, especially the old ones, am I discovering anything new?
Speaker: Because going over conversations that you've just had might bring you some insight, right? You might think about it and it might be useful to kind of go through these conversations or practice a conversation that you're going to have.
Speaker: feels useful. but then going over something, you know, two years ago, five years ago, 20 years ago, that is just a loop of conversation that never resolves itself.
Speaker: And you always just feel anxiety about it or the shame of what you said or the, the missed opportunity or what whatever it it was, doesn't feel useful anymore.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: and almost feel like when it comes up, I should just let it go. I should get always that conversation.
Speaker: me, let me just try and tag that as dead. It's a dead moment. It's a dead combat conf conversation. Move on to so something else, um, as quickly as possible because it's pointless. It is pointless.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So yeah, where are we? 27 minutes. All right. Well,
Speaker: let's just say... um maybe the imaginary conversations aren't completely pointless. As I said, sometimes we're practicing, sometimes we're processing, sometimes we're trying to remember, sometimes we're protecting ourselves, sometimes we're trying to make sense of something that hurt, and sometimes we are just having an imaginary conversation and destroying the other person, and it damn well feels great.
Speaker: all right well that was half an hour of that conversation um now then i would normally go into the post bag um for this week but um due to time i've not managed to pull that out so i have i have some catching up to do from uh post bag stuff um But yeah, I hope you like and subscribe. Next week, again, it is just me once again.
Speaker: um and I'll come up with another little topic of conversation. And then Paul is back at the beginning of September. So that is something to look forward to.
Speaker: So that just leaves me to thank you for keeping me company um and pointing out, as I do every week, that ADHDville is delivered fresh every Tuesday to all providers of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and rate us most conversational.
Speaker: most imaginary um and feel free to correspond at will in the comments but wait there's more if you wish to see our beautiful beautiful faces then sadly forth to the tiktoks and the tube and the youtubes and you can also pick up a quill and email us at adhdville at gmail.com but in the meantime fucking kind to yourself
Speaker: there says the mayor that's that
