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Guest: Musician Nikki Mariotti
23 Plays1 month ago
This week, Wednes learns about the transfemme nonbinary experience via Nikki Mariotti. They reveal their journey of discovery and transformation--and it's dope. We also talk Fiddler on the Roof, Aliens, sarcasm, and what happens when you need the police but you aren't confident that they'll actually help you. Also violins, the word enby, honorifics, guitar, and of course, pronouns--verbs and adjectives--because Mad Lib!!
A transcript of this episode can be found here.
Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art. Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hi friends, you are listening to the Mentally Oddcast brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror. My name is Wednesday Leave Friday and with us today we have Nicki Mariotti. Nicki is trans fem non-binary and they've actually been involved in music almost all their life. They perform through junior high and high school.
00:00:56
Speaker
in their thirties and in t were in a couple of diffe played at the Renaissance festival and generally in love with public per into motorcycling, bicycli paints and coloring. Wow that is such a great variety of things welcome Nikki thank you thank you I'm so glad you could be here I know it took a while to ah to get the ah the scheduling on point and here we finally are yes that it is ah it is good to be here
00:01:33
Speaker
Thanks. So we actually like to start ah by asking guests to tell us the story of their first horror movie. So let's have it. Okey-dokey. It was when I was 18, I believe, in still in... Whoa, what? Still. Wait, you went through your entire childhood without seeing a scary movie? Yes. What? Well, made unless you want to talk about Snow White,
00:02:02
Speaker
I mean, as a kid, as a little kid, like when the when you see the queen dressed as the old lady who looks more like a witch, that was scary. That was some scary shit right there. Well, Disney has never really been afraid to frighten children.
00:02:22
Speaker
Like, oh, you thought you had a parent? Well, they're dead now. So, you know. Very true. I mean, it's it's no different than the little like all the nursery rhymes. And when the bow breaks, the cradle will rock and you're like.
00:02:35
Speaker
Why are we singing this to little kids? yeah Totally. I remember getting my first book of uncut Grimm's fairy tales and like everybody dies at the end. You know, Cinderella's sisters have like half of each foot. Like it's, it is grotesque. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but the, uh, first horror movie that I, I would classify as that was when I was 18, we went to a midnight showing of aliens.
00:03:05
Speaker
Nice. And that was the experience. it It was, I think it was more than we bargained for as, as teenagers, as far as how, how scary that it, it was where there's all this quiet. So you saw up the sequel before the first one. Yes. Okay.
00:03:28
Speaker
ok Cause yeah, that one, like you think you're getting an action movie and, uh, yeah, that's wow. That must've been huge. So I guess we're about the same age because alien came out, aliens came out when I was in high school. Cause our senior drama class a year ahead of me did, uh, aliens, the musical, and it was all the songs from Fiddler on the Roof, but rewritten for it. Cause we had just done Fiddler on the Roof. It was so ridiculous. You just did Fiddler on the Roof.
00:03:59
Speaker
in In high school, we did. So in high school, by like the senior class, you know the the class play was Fiddler on the Roof, and then that was also the year Aliens came out. So when the seniors did their like class performance. here's Here's the coincidence for you. ah the i I played guitar on that production of Fiddler on the Roof. What? Yes.
00:04:28
Speaker
i Well there was a guy that came in to play a guitar that wasn't from our school. Yes, that was me. What the hell? Yep, that was me. Because yeah you're right that I did grow up in Royal Oak, but I actually, I went to Don Darrow.
00:04:49
Speaker
so Oh my God. So you're my enemy now. Yes. But no more because there now aren't any crosstown rivals in Royal Oak. That's what I heard. So now there's just Royal Oak High School and Royal Oak Middle School. And Royal Oak Middle School is what Dondero became and Kimball became the high school. Weird.
00:05:14
Speaker
Well, um, that is wild. That is just wild. Yeah. Cause there were so many great people in that production. Like we try not to name drop on this show, but the the guy that played laser Wolf is a Timo curvy. And he actually went on to do soap operas in Finland. Oh, wow. And, uh, the guy that played model, the Taylor was a guy named Andre Como. And he was on the first season of MTV's the real world. um Cool.
00:05:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. My high school was just, just, uh, it's weird. Cause I don't know. Does everybody have like a person who ended up low key famous in their high school and college or whatever? Cause I also went to a college with a guy who was like a huge writer now, whereas I'm a tiny writer. So supposedly there's a story that, uh, Glenn Frye went to Don Darrow or something along those lines back in the day. Oh, wow. But I don't know.
00:06:14
Speaker
I don't know if that's become an urban legend or if it's, if it's actually true. I kind of suspect. Well, better him than Henley. I hate Don Henley. I kind of, yeah, I kind of suspect it is true, but, but in any case, you remember Mrs. Gally. So, uh-huh. Yeah. Or, um, but she brought me over to play the guitar on that production. So.
00:06:43
Speaker
That is so wild. So that was really unusual. Yeah, I guess so. That's, wow. My mind is like blown by that. So, um, but I mean, as a, as a musician, you probably don't sit around watching movies the way a lot of other creatives do. I've heard that about a lot of musicians that like, they don't waste half their lives rewatching movies that they like. Is that, is that true for you? What'd you say? I would say yes and no. I have found.
00:07:13
Speaker
that due to my, I don't know whether it's anxiety or just uncomfortable with a lot of silence. I, I like to have movies or TV shows on in the background when I'm working. And sometimes even when I'm playing ah instruments by myself, uh, just especially when I'm not really trying to perform per se, but just sitting around noodling with, with something, trying to get something under my fingers where it really doesn't matter what's going on in the background. But, but for some reason, the, I end up watching a number of movies just during the day and TV shows and such, because it just feels better.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, oh, definitely. Well, there's there are psychological reasons that they say that people rewatch things even when the things in question are like, you know, Dexter, where people are just getting murdered on a regular basis because there's a comfort in knowing what comes next. yeah Even if it's, you know, even if it's something that's like uncomfortable to watch,
00:08:33
Speaker
You are prepared for it emotionally. It doesn't have that sideswipe that, you know, you watch a new show and like, Oh no, my character, my favorite person got killed. How awful, you know? Yeah, it's, it's like, yeah, it it is like that kind of comfort where I know what's going to happen and I, that way I kind of have control over it. And yep that's, it is weirdly comforting to do that. I.
00:09:02
Speaker
There's certain movies that used to be, you know, sort of my go-to stuff. Like it used to be as my wife would say, like Luke and Indy and meaning of course, Star Wars and Indiana Jones. and and Like those were, those were kind of my go-to and then, then, you know, some other movies take over and then You end up watching, you know, some, some of the better, but still kind of humorous Steven Seagal movies and they're yeah under siege and under siege too, or are my favorites. But I would say guilty pleasures, but they're really, those two movies in particular have a really good cast and they're actually considerably fun. Unlike the new stuff that he's making.
00:10:02
Speaker
No. yeah Well, you know, the the term guilty pleasure, I'm trying to get away from it. It it feels like kind of a gate keeping term. Because honestly, if you watch something and you enjoy it, I don't care if it is a cartoon shark leaping 20 feet out of the water to eat the mayor, you know, it's sometimes that happens. And it's like it's about having an enjoyable experience.
00:10:28
Speaker
And if that is what makes people happy, anybody who has to say, oh, you should feel guilty for that. You should feel bad if if everything you watch isn't Oscar worthy. Like, come on. Yeah. You know, right. Right.
00:10:40
Speaker
I worked all day. I don't want to watch fucking Schindler's list. Okay. I want to see something ridiculous happen and then laugh about how ridiculous it is. And that's all, you know, and that's, that's, I think, you know, people just have like different needs. Okay. Speaking of which now I want to talk about you for a bit because you are actually a fascinating person. Um, and now when I asked you to describe yourself,
00:11:05
Speaker
You described yourself as trans femme and also non-binary. Now, as a cis person, I feel slightly confused by that. Because on the one hand, your gender presentation, your sexuality is none of my business. You know, like as, ah as another human being, you don't owe anyone an explanation for that. But at the same time, like, I don't really understand what that means and I was, I would like to. So can you help me with that? Sure.
00:11:35
Speaker
I, it's really become, it's really been a long time sort of coming to terms with that because a lot of, uh, assigned male at birth folks, when they figure out there's something going on gender wise or sexuality wise that is not quote normal.
00:12:06
Speaker
they, they get a lot of, there's a lot of push to be, you know, transition all the way to being a woman because passing is, is really, really important to some people. And, and I, I get that, like, there's, there's also a lot of comfort in,
00:12:34
Speaker
like finding the right label too. So yeah you're kind of, you kind of get pushed toward, there is a there's an old meme that's going around that kind of speaks to that where it's like beware the trans pipeline and like 2017, he, him, 2018, he, they, then it goes to they, them, then she, they, then she, her, you know, for the next four or five years. And it's like there's this inexorable slide toward fully becoming binary again. And I
00:13:21
Speaker
I don't see it like that. I see it more in the sense that I'm i am somewhere, I don't know if in between is the right word, but I just feel like I'm not really a woman. I don't feel like a typical guy, I don't feel like really any of that. And I want to, I want to like quote the good place with Janet where she says, you know, not a girl, not a girl. And, and I kind of like that as well. Like I'm not a boy and i'm I'm not a girl, but what are you? Well,
00:14:13
Speaker
trans can mean not cis. So it doesn't have to be necessarily, I don't have to choose between, oh, well, I'm i'm not going to be a guy anymore. So I have to be a trans woman. Well, no, not really, but I do like to occasionally wear more femme type clothes. And sometimes I do, but a lot of times when it's ah when it's a problem for me, sometimes hair is a big hassle. So I'm of a certain age, so i'm I'm basically bald. So if I want to have hair, if I want to have like nice femme hair, I have to wear a wig.
00:15:04
Speaker
And if I have to wear a wig, then like what happens, like exercising and a wig where you're going to sweat and do all that, that's no fun at all. Like that just, it just gets in the way. Or if you're in some kind of having some kind of physical fun where you're, you're not, uh,
00:15:29
Speaker
you're going to get jostled or or whatever the wig might come off. And for me, like that's a whole kind of weird to be wearing a wig and then have it come off mid, midstream. So I, I kind of opt for androgyny a lot of times, but, but out of more out of practicality than Like what I would really want to look like all the time, which would probably be a little more femme, but it's, uh, it's kind of dictated by how, how you feel that day too. Like some days or it's, it's dictated by how I want to present at work. Like if I'm not feeling really great about that, then.
00:16:26
Speaker
I might not wear a skirt that day, and I might just wear jeans and a t-shirt or something, because because I don't want to deal with the sometimes the looks, and it gets a little bit funny feeling. Now, i i really you're kind of blowing my mind here, because this is something that I had not considered. Now, obviously, I'm i'm AFAB and Sis.
00:16:54
Speaker
So if I get up and I feel like putting on jeans and a t-shirt, that's what I do. If I want to go to work and wear like, I mean, there was one day, like my, my wedding dress is just sort of a blue, uh, Renaissance looking dress. And I was just feeling super fancy one day. So I just wore it to work.
00:17:14
Speaker
Um, yeah you know, I just, I just felt like being super fancy. So I, you know, sometimes I'll wear, or when I, back when I had a day job, I would just wear a special occasion dress to work. And the thing is that when I do that, nobody said, what do you think you're doing? Why are you wearing that here? Who are you trying to impress? Like I got zero pushback.
00:17:36
Speaker
And it occurs to me that if you are trans or NB, for those of you who don't know, NB is ah like a term that came out of non-binary because it sounds like N and B. um But that ah that's a luxury. Being able to wear whatever the hell I want and not be attacked for it is a luxury. And it's one that up until like this minute, I don't think I've ever really appreciated to that extent.
00:18:03
Speaker
it's is it's It's a really weird experience and it's partly, and the whole patriarchy kind of thing, how men are more powerful and women are you know not as as worthy and you know you're supposed to be all you know dainty and all that. And and i and what that does,
00:18:31
Speaker
Is it makes like a lot of people, I think if you're assigned female at birth and you want to dress more, more mask, then like that makes sense to a lot of people because you're, you're wanting to dress as the more more powerful person.
00:18:56
Speaker
But when somebody who's. You know, and I can't pass. I would, I don't know what I would have to do to even come close, but, cause I'm not a, I'm not a small human and ah being about six, one and fairly large. And so to pass is not really an option per se. So when I dress femme, it's, it's very, very obvious.
00:19:29
Speaker
I think, to others. And the question I think ah many would ask is, why would they want to do that? Why would they want to dress as the weaker sex? or but And and it just doesn't it just doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of people. I think i don't dress because of that.
00:19:57
Speaker
i I mean, the the thing is that like... You hear a lot of like, you know, the grand turf JK Rowling, um, we'll talk about trans women like stealing femininity. And I've met a lot of really beautiful trans women that are much, much more attractive than I could ever hope to be. I still didn't feel like they were stealing anything from me any more than any other woman who is more attractive than me. I mean, maybe you're stealing the spotlight, but you're not like, I'm not less feminine because you exist, you know? So I don't really and that the whole mindset, you know, like you were saying like well But if you're a man that in society you already have a lot of power So making yourself a woman
00:20:43
Speaker
I shouldn't be making people as, many I guess I shouldn't say making yourself a woman, but presenting as female shouldn't be upsetting people the way that, and I'm not saying it should upset people, but if you think people are stealing things, then women pretending to be men should offend a whole lot more.
00:21:02
Speaker
Because if you're engaging in like Trump style locker room talk and then it turns out, whoops, there was a woman here listening to you. Yeah, that's going to be a problem for a lot of dudes who rely on, you know, the bro code to keep up with being awful. But like, I think I remember in like the eighties and nineties when people started being more ah vocal about being bisexual.
00:21:27
Speaker
and people were mad. And one of the things that struck me about it was that there were a lot of gay people who didn't think that bisexuality existed and they were mad at the very idea of it. And I see the same thing happening with being non-binary, that there are people that I would think would be more tolerant and understanding of those kinds of differences really not digging the whole non-binary thing and thinking people are like making it up and everybody's one or the other, you know, you just want attention, like all these weird things. Yeah, there's a ton about that. it's the and And the bi thing with gay,
00:22:11
Speaker
that is some of that is because people that are bi can exist in a apparently heterosexual relationship and not have that stigma.
00:22:32
Speaker
yeah And so that people that, and I don't, and I mean, I can, I understand that, but I don't, I mean, I don't agree with it, but I can understand why that would be upsetting, but it's not, but it's not a cop-out. I mean, they're not, you know, they didn't ask to, they didn't ask to be bi. It's not, that's not a thing. But there is, ah speaking on the the trans folk subject, like there is a lot of, I've experienced gatekeeping the other way.
00:23:15
Speaker
where you're supposed to be binary. So, you know, why, why don't I shave all the time? Why don't I, you know, do X because that'll make me look more feminine. And I, I don't always and do those things, but But you can also feel that people, some do look down on it. So not only as a non-binary signed male at birth person, like not only do you get shit from normal people,
00:23:55
Speaker
but you also get some shit from the trans community occasionally. And that's, that's really weird. And you'd think like, Hey, we're kind of all in this together. And why don't we instead of like further dividing ourselves. It makes me want to read up on like the human justification and need to judge other people. Cause obviously everybody's trying to find their place in the universe, but it,
00:24:24
Speaker
it would be better if we could do that without everything being a hierarchy of, you know, who's doing the best job and who deserves the most respect and who has the toughest time. um I also wonder though, like, how much of our relationships to other human beings have to do with probably subconscious thoughts about sex?
00:24:49
Speaker
Because if you're mad about people being non-binary and you're like, well, which is it? I need to know. I need to know. Like, no, you don't because like you shouldn't be treating men and women inherently differently anyway. You know, if you're the kind of person that has to flirt with every dude or every woman, then yeah, being non-binary is like, wow, I don't know which kind of sexy I should be right now. It's so confusing to me. Like, because I mean, I'm i'm kind of bi. I've been madly in love with some women, but I'm pretty famously married to a dude. So, yeah you know, i i don't i I don't have to tell people that I'm bi. If I don't want to, no one would ask, no one would assume it.
00:25:31
Speaker
unless I get too drunk at a party and I'm like making out with some random chick, which um let's let's pretend I've never done that and that's hypothetical. um but But people do seem to have that sense of like, I have a right to know what's in your underwear and You don't. you You just don't. If we're not dating, the contents of my clothing is up is my business and who I will like share it with. Decidedly so, yeah yes. Yeah, it's it's really, I don't quite understand why that people get all up in arms about about this. because
00:26:12
Speaker
You know, there's that one, there's the one meme where it's like, hey, you know, follow me for more information than, you know, if you don't, if you don't like the idea of gay marriage, then say no when a gay person proposes to you. like so that's It's not that difficult because it really doesn't affect your life.
00:26:33
Speaker
Exactly. And then we get into this thing now where people are so desperate to judge that they use, I'm sorry to bring up this word, but they use Nazi tactics. Pretending people you don't like, molest children is a Nazi tactic because who in their right mind is going to argue on behalf of someone once an accusation like that has been made?
00:26:55
Speaker
Because some of us like you I'm sure are still old enough to remember Rick Santorum and all his nonsense and i I don't understand the idea of like I'd rather believe some nonsense that makes me feel comfortable Then know what's actually happening in the world and I mean yeah sure what's happening in the world can suck sometimes but You you kind of still got to know about it.
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you do. ah but but But you're right. it's It's a real, it's a real problem. And they they the level of control that they seem to want over how people identify what you can talk about in school, what And it's pretty ridiculous, really, but but anyway. Well, the educational stuff in particular, because when people say, well, let's put people off on a good foundation, let's give people factual information and let them make up their own minds. There are, you know, zealots that bust in and say, well, no, you can't tell my kids that it's okay to be gay. Well, why on earth not? You know? Yeah.
00:28:14
Speaker
And because I don't want them to be gay. Well, wish in one hand. I mean, that's not a thing you can control. I mean, I don't think I've ever had a friend in my life who didn't at one point date someone that I did not approve of. You know, that's, you know, get to control that for other people as much as you might want to.
00:28:35
Speaker
um I want to kind of move on a little bit and just sort of lay a mea culpa on you because when I invited you to be on this interview, I knew that you were trans and I knew that you were non-binary and that you were creative type.
00:28:50
Speaker
I had assumed that as a trans person, that you would have experience with things like depression and anxiety um and you know think things of that nature. and i I think I might have jumped the gun on that because you do not have a diagnosis. Is that correct?
00:29:11
Speaker
um well it's it's really
00:29:16
Speaker
It's complicated. i don't it's a It's just related to gender in the sense of like gender identity disorder. ah that would I think that's the sort of official diagnosis, but i have but I have had trouble with depression and anxiety and all of that because it's it is As you point out, when I first ah started experimenting with gender and all that, there were a lot of things that were very just very difficult. And I don't know, and it's been a long time, it's been about 12 years, I think.
00:30:15
Speaker
Since I, since I kind of knew that there was something different, I don't really, I don't really, I'm not one of those people that like knew when they were six years old that I was in the wrong body or or anything like that. It was never, it was never like that. But also the time.
00:30:45
Speaker
that I grew up, wouldn't. Yeah, that, that would, it wouldn't have come up. it No one would have ever introduced that to you. No, there wouldn't, there it wasn't any kind of like terminology or like, like there is now. Yes, there was some terminology, but it was all, it was all stuff that now you wouldn't want to say. And, ah right you know, and I.
00:31:17
Speaker
I didn't really know what to do. And a lot of what I did do, because I didn't know anything, like I didn't prepare very well for like the after effects of it. like Coming out to people, like why isn't it Why is that so difficult? Well, it turns out it can be. It can be really difficult, but I i didn't think that much of it at the time. And so there were some there were some surprises in my personal life the were that weren't so great, but I
00:32:04
Speaker
And I mean, we, we live in a, in a progressive town. I don't know if you want me to say the town, but we live in a place where the major university that is known for being progressive and you are well-placed in the community as a creative and as someone who is like married and employed and doing all the, you know, stereotypical adult things. And yet you still get, did get pushback from people.
00:32:27
Speaker
Right. And there are still things that you don't necessarily want to talk openly about. So what what is that? I mean, was that a surprise? It sounds like it must have been like, what the hell? I'm in the middle of Ann Arbor and people are being dicks about this. What what? Well, yeah, it it was and and really, since say I until the until the pandemic, really, I lived in Royal Oak up until then.
00:32:53
Speaker
Which but again, very progressive, upper middle class. It's pretty progressive. It's close to Ferndale, which is also really progressive, even more so than Royal Oak, I think. And and i I just don't, I don't know. i Growing up, like when we were in high school or whatever, we didn't have a very diverse high school, like in Royal Oak.
00:33:23
Speaker
and Oh yeah, there were there were no ah no black people at Kimball when I was there, was not a one. Yeah, there was not a one. I don't think at Don Darrow either. And so that was, I won't say it was a real eye opener when I went to school, I went to Wayne State, but it it wasn't it it was a It was a good thing because we got to meet a whole bunch of other people and and that was fine. But I don't know, in the climate of Royal Oak, even there, like being trans in the like the early 90s would have really not been a great thing. And I i don't know whether, like,
00:34:15
Speaker
secretly, I knew something. I mean, these are things that you can't really know now. And I don't think, I don't think I did, but for the most of my like early life, I was mostly a rules follower. And so I wouldn't have done anything very risque or, or, and talking about I mean, we, we had, we had terrible conversations at the dinner table and like, and there you know, making fun of this and that and like, but not knowing, not knowing any better. And I think if, if you've, if you grew up in the time that I did and you aren't at least somewhat appalled by some of the things you did as a child or
00:35:15
Speaker
teenager or whatever, then you're just kind of kidding yourself. Like, yeah. And, and I, and you know, so people that aren't introspective at all, when like, everything's fine. Always. It's everybody's fine. It's like, it's like the dog meme with the whole room on fire. You know, everything's fine. You don't have to worry about it. We're all good. We're all good.
00:35:43
Speaker
ah I can recall having a conversation with a friend of a friend way back on LiveJournal, and it was about the word gay and and how and and why it's okay to use the word gay. and What they were arguing was that the expression, that's so gay, like as a negative,
00:36:04
Speaker
should never be used because it's offensive to gay people. And what I had said at the time was that, well, hang on, because the word gay has meant a lot of different things. And even if you're using it as a negative, it may or may not have anything to do with gay people.
00:36:21
Speaker
Yeah. and it Because, that I mean, in the 20s, gay was a good thing. You were the gay girl, and that meant you were out having a great time. Yeah. Nothing to do with with lesbians. But that's the thing, is that like ah the what the conclusion I eventually reached was, well, it doesn't really matter what's going on in someone's mind in that if you're saying something and it's hurting someone else, and you know that, and you keep doing it,
00:36:49
Speaker
You're a dick because it's not, you know, there's no, there's no reason to not just pick a different word. enter j k And we talk about that. Well, right. I mean, we talk about that a lot on the show, just like, well, where do you draw the line? you You draw the line when you're causing pain to someone else and you know that you don't have to be. That's where the line is. Or when you're, you know, or the, or the usual expression about punching down and right and that,
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's a bad thing. we know't Yeah. it it If you're hurting Elon Musk's fee fees, I'm going to get over that. But if you're you know talking shit about people that are already in a vulnerable demographic, like why are you doing that, but also stop it? Yeah. Then you're just being an asshole. and that's and ah that's very true now as someone who does not want to be an asshole if i can help it um i have a question for you and i'm asking you this as you and not necessarily as a representative of of nb or trans people but uh I have, ah it's especially in the last 10 years, I have been accused, and I'm using air quotes for that, of being a trans person. And once I was mistaken for a trans person on the internet, because just recently there was a Kamala Harris, a women for Kamala Harris community. And someone had asked, you know, if that includes all women, and they were like, well, no, I do, you know, blah, blah, a lot of hemming and hawing.
00:38:23
Speaker
And it turned out that the women for Harris community did not want to accept trans women. And I was, you know, me not just me, but like a handful of people were like, well, that's bullshit. And then they went started a new community.
00:38:35
Speaker
But because of that, people assume that I was trans. You know, my name is weird, so they thought that maybe I chose it. um You know, stuff like that. um What is a non-dickish way to say, no, that's, I'm not trans. You know, i I'm cis. Because I have no problem saying, like, I'm a cis chick. I don't, like, I'm not afraid of the word, like some people. But I also don't want to give the impression that I'm like, oh, ew, ah, no, of course I'm not a trans chick.
00:39:05
Speaker
First of all, if I was a trans chick, I'd have to be a whole lot braver and I think I'd have to be much better at pretty girl makeup because I am not good at pretty girl makeup. Never have been. Yeah, I, you know, well well, one thing you could just say is you're an ally, but the, there's other There's other things about, you know, people calling themselves allies who who really aren't. Yeah, I think the more i I think about that, the more I don't want to be a self-proclaimed ally. If someone wants to say, hey, thanks for being an ally. Oh, gosh, that's okay. You know, I would be very touched by that. Depends on the person. Like, is it, is it ah as they say, is it is it a ah teachable moment?
00:39:59
Speaker
Like, right you know, cause if it is, then you could say, you know, I, trans people have of a really hard time and I want to stick up for them where I can. And, right you know, something like that, rather than like, Hey, you know, you don't know, I'm not trans, like, and that, you know, say it in a way that is,
00:40:30
Speaker
more, um, like you're describing what you, what you do, or I'm in this group because I want to promote awareness for that. And like, if they make, if they make the assumption that you're trans, I mean, what's it matter really?
00:40:49
Speaker
Well, I mean, honestly, stolen valor, man. i I would not want people to think that I have the bravery that it requires to go out and be a trans woman in this world. That really sounds like I probably could now, you know, as ah as a middle aged woman, um but in my twenties, no fucking way, man. No way. I was still trying to pretend that I was going to be thin from dieting when I was in my twenties. like yeah i i look fat now but just you wait fellas um whoops but because that's a thing like i was i was accused of being a trans person in like a violent way once ah but usually well no man i mean i oh no no i was uh i was on my way into the women's restroom at an i-hop and a complete stranger
00:41:42
Speaker
like, stop me, back me against the wall, put a hand on my shoulder and said, where do you think you're going? And I was just like, oh the honestly, the first thought in my mind was, I need to wax my upper lip, man, this is not cool. um But yeah, it was it was pretty scary. And ah You know, of course my husband was on that, like a flash, but, um, so yeah. yeah who like cause And I mean, all he had to do, like, he stood up. I don't even know if he knew what was going on, but like he stood up and the guy made eye contact with him. And I was like, yeah, that's my husband. And, uh, and he like, I really had to go to the bathroom, which is the only reason that I did not, you know, make like a bigger thing of it.
00:42:30
Speaker
because basically I went in the bathroom and came out and the guy was gone because I was fully like I should probably press charges not because I was hurt but because that fucking guy is dangerous and he needs a wake-up call yeah yeah it's but a big you know and in a situation like that I wouldn't even want to say I'm cis because it doesn't matter if I'm cis or not that kind of behavior is completely unacceptable yeah yeah that's and I think that really is kind of the the point in a way like it's not.
00:43:06
Speaker
whether they think you're, whether somebody comes off thinking you're trans, like that's on them. Like you don't have to, you don't have to worry that you're, you're getting like negative points. You're getting demerits in, in the, in the views of trans people because someone thought you were a trans. That's not, that's, I don't think that's the thing.
00:43:35
Speaker
but Well, you know, I'm one of these like late in life autistic types. So I'm just now coming to terms with the fact that like, no, I'm not argumentative. I just need for people to not be full of shit. yeah And you know, that's, that's one of those ways of like.
00:43:52
Speaker
No, I'm not saying like you're not insulting me by saying, oh, I think you're, I mean, there they are trying to insult me. Definitely. Like when a MAGA boy says you must be trans because like I have pronouns in my social media profiles. And the reason that I have that is because trans people have told me that it de-stigmatizes that if if cis people do it. So I'm like, well, that's reasonable. yeah And I also have a life where like I don't have, like I'm a sex writer, so my boss isn't gonna unfollow me for like, you know, or like right fire me for for, you know, being inclusive. I'm really lucky in that way. Like I don't have kids, so I don't have anybody that's gonna like get beat up at school because their parent is speaking out or, you know. yeah
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah, oh which is why I I feel very obligated to stand up for marginalized people if I can Because I do have the privilege of being relatively risk-free as far as that goes You know, yeah, yeah, and and that's really Like you could tell you can tell people that Like because Because you're cis and you can use your privilege for something good And you're not self-proclaimed as an ally, but you're telling them the stuff that you are doing, which is good. And I don't think that people,
00:45:25
Speaker
I mean, if people want to argue about it, well, then they're probably not your people anyway. um i I'm not really, I don't get into a lot of conversations about this at work because I don't feel like it has to come about the right way, I guess is what I'm saying. Like people have to have sort of, ah they can be inquisitive, but you can be, but you can do it one of two ways.
00:46:04
Speaker
You can come up to somebody and say, Hey, what's with the nail polish? oh Or, or you can come up and say, Ooh, I really liked that blue color you're wearing today. Like right and there's a huge, there's a chasm between those two. And absolutely the one is like, okay, I'm not touching this conversation and screw that. And the other, you might actually.
00:46:34
Speaker
have a conversation and talk about something sensible. but and And that's part of like though the labor of being ah a trans person in a sense is that everybody wants to everybody wants to know things. And they do it in various ways, some great, some terrible.
00:47:02
Speaker
and Well, I mean, you see this also with with like gay folk when they come out. Now there used to be a thing where it would, coming out was considered like an event. You know, like it was like a ah single, like, okay, I'm going to come out at Thanksgiving. And then the whole family's there and you're like, hey, everybody, I'm gay. And that if everyone isn't immediately celebratory, it's like, well, why don't you accept me? Which like, I can certainly understand that when you build it up in your mind and say, all right, I'm going to reveal this huge thing about myself that I've been thinking about for months, if not years. And then when your family just sits there a god like, look, I just wanted some potatoes, man, why is this happening?
00:47:48
Speaker
like i can and like I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, like yeah, you you break the news to people, but it's a conversation. Because while your parents are sitting there with their mouths hanging open, they're probably not in a state to articulate, well, I'm concerned about the challenges you're going to face in life. And that upsets me. And, you know, like, it's ah it's a conversation. It's like any relationship, you know, like, if you find out that your buddy wants to join a convent, that can be just as shocking. And it's not because you're a nonophobe. It's because what? I didn't expect that. And now I need a minute. Yeah.
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah, and i can totally and I can totally see that. like that's
00:48:33
Speaker
that's a whole That's a whole level of you know what you but you assume people are going to come out and, or you know maybe they were getting ready to say, hey, you know,
00:48:47
Speaker
I made a different kind of pie this year and and you know and then they come out and yeah, that's- Wait, is is is that a lesbian joke? I don't think so, but it probably could be. i mean du and you know I don't and don't really see how- I mean, I see how families could be there and they could be sort of dumbfounded and and just like, oh, wow, this was unexpected, but it doesn't necessarily mean there're they're all against it. It's just odd and or unexpected. ah So maybe, and that's kind of what I did wrong as well is that,
00:49:37
Speaker
Like I didn't really prepare for it. And so I didn't really consider that there, this could be odd for people. Like, ahha and, and so it, cause it was all new to me. And, you know, I.
00:50:01
Speaker
I decided I was, you know, I forgot I was dressing as a hooker for Halloween that year or something. And cause, cause that's the, like Halloween is one of those universal things where you can, you can dress up and you can dress as whatever you want and people don't care. Right. So, well yeah and, and the really astute people will notice, uh,
00:50:27
Speaker
But, but it really, it really doesn't matter if you want to go, if, if you want to get out your sexy nurse costume at Halloween, then fine. Nobody's going to care. But it, it's just, it's just the other times that you can't just explain away. Right. And then I don't know, I guess I would,
00:50:56
Speaker
probably do things a little bit differently, but... So if you had a friend who was about to come out, what would how would you advise them? How would you would help them prepare?
00:51:11
Speaker
I think I would have them go to ah one of the places that ah affirmations in Ferndale, I would probably go there and they, even and in the past, they have had groups, I don't know what their current status is, but A lot of that of that they can they can help because they have groups and I think they could help with more of like what to expect when you come out to people or even maybe
00:51:50
Speaker
the best way to have a conversation around it. I, I, you know, a lot of people, of course, there's some people that like, they come out and they just like text their parents, Hey, I'm gay or Hey, I'm trans or whatever. And, and that works for them. And that's fine. But there's other people that it's it's not gonna work for. Or if you know your if you know your parents are are going to disapprove a lot.
00:52:28
Speaker
then there's other things that probably you should do. I mean I know in one case a young trans lady ah moved into a friend of mine's house because their parents were so, so bad about it that they're, they just, they just left their own home to go somewhere else. It's terrifying, especially when you hear that there are laws being passed that require like teachers or even counselors to out students to their parents. ye If students felt safe being out ah outing themselves to their parents, it seems like most of them would.
00:53:21
Speaker
you know If they had a safe environment to come out in, people wouldn't be hiding. so it's I mean, to me, for somebody who grew up in a home with a lot of abuse and a lot of things being deliberately kept from people who would freak the hell out about it, yeah that ah that it it just seems extremely ignorant and myopic.
00:53:42
Speaker
to you know it's kind of like with homeschooling and there are people that are like oh homeschooling they don't they don't need supervision well they do because that's whackadoo shit like I'm not saying homeschooling parents are whackadoos I think I just said that so I'm gonna cut that out later but it is like people that want to have the government help with those kinds of things and like, no, if my kid wants to hide something from me, I'm going to make them tell me. Well, gee, I wonder why anyone would want to hide from anyone who's so obviously bug fuck. but it's it's it's just it It is so scary because a lot of these are just basic privacy issues. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and and I also like the trans kids or a big are a big part of, you know, trans and queer. Of course, queer is another one of those words, but the queer we've kind of taken back.
00:54:44
Speaker
And, and, you know, so you can, you can be queer as fuck. And that's a good thing. Like, and there's not a lot of emphasis on like, people, a trans adults, like what, what they go through, what they go through, or like being, being trans in the workplace. I know where, where I work, it's been, it's been a huge hugely, a mixed bag about it. And,
00:55:13
Speaker
like about using the name about and a lot of companies are are behind the times and and they don't they don't know how to how to deal with trans people in the workplace.
00:55:31
Speaker
and And it's so weird, like the name thing makes so little sense to me because again, I'm a cis woman. So when I married my husband, I took his last name legally. So when I went to the doctor, they started calling me by my legal last name. And when I, you know, you fill out forms and it's on there and no one second guesses you. No one says, well, hey, wait a minute. Why did your name change? Because everybody understands that, you know, like, oh, like no no one acts like I'm trying to pull something. Right. Right. now And with and with the funny thing is is with trans folks, it's not even generally like I don't know how many trans folks actually change their last name. Like they might they might not. So it's generally like a first name and middle name. I mean, that's what I did when I did my legal name change last year. And. But and I did that because
00:56:27
Speaker
of of work actually, because there were a number of places, even though in most of the things we could use our preferred name, there were a number of places where the legal name still kept cropping up.
00:56:43
Speaker
on evaluations, on certain other things. and And I just finally decided that enough was enough and I i was gonna change my name. and so ah So I did. Well, I mean, there's there's like, sometimes people are just confused and they don't know what name to call someone, but there also seems to be a deliberate obstinance. And I'll tell you how I notice because as a kid, because my name is Wednesday, I would go through phases where I just wanted to be normal. I wanted a name that did not call ridiculous attention to myself and lead to questions and stuff. So I asked people to call me Wendy.
00:57:23
Speaker
And it was no problem. The teachers all said, yeah, that makes sense. And they did it. And, you know, introduced me that way to students. My mom lost her shit when she find out found out, like, went to the school screaming at people. But, like, the bottom line was that if you ask someone, hey, I would prefer that you address me this way. You know, some people are Mike and some people insist on being Michael. I have a friend named David. He does not like to be called Dave.
00:57:49
Speaker
And if you give a shit about someone and you care about their feelings, or you just don't want to be a flagrant asshole, you call people what they want to be called. And if your response to, could you please address me this way, is a long list of reasons why they shouldn't have to.
00:58:07
Speaker
That's gross. like I'll tell you, I'm not always perfect with people's pronouns. My brain just wants to default to he or she, and it doesn't occur to me to use the singular them. Even though I absolutely support that you know in practice, my brain doesn't always want to do it. And I have never in my life miss like given someone the wrong pronoun.
00:58:32
Speaker
And then, you know, either I apologize or they correct me and I apologize, but no trans person or any person has ever been like, wow, you are an asshole for doing that. Right. Right. You know, everybody gets that as long as you're trying your best, it's fine. The reverse does not always seem to be true. I find many people and I don't want to just say, well, you're a bigot if you do this. But if you're like angry at someone else because you got their name wrong,
00:59:01
Speaker
yeah I don't, and I mean, that's no, that's, that's not okay. Yeah, that's a new level of stupid, really. i right I think, yeah, I think about the name stuff a lot. It's, I like to, I like to get people's names correct, but on that note, you know, you'd think that as, you know, all the trans people are always correcting me about the pronouns to use and ah blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:59:32
Speaker
true maybe, but we don't have a free pass on knowing people's pronouns either. So trans people misgender each other also,
00:59:49
Speaker
including, and this is the wild thing, like misgender ourselves because, we really because you know, for 43 or four odd years, like I grew up socialized as a guy, you know, all of that. So occasionally,
01:00:17
Speaker
not as much anymore, but refer to myself as he or like something like that. and And it's really, really, and I don't think people understand that that's even possible. And like that that makes it that makes it weird. So like I have a friend who uses they them and sometimes i I fuck up their pronouns as well. And, but- Hater. But don't we all? Like, so it's not, it's not that we've, like, like there's this ah sinister, like organization, trans organization that, that has defined all these pronouns for people and
01:01:12
Speaker
yet we fuck it up as well. So it's not.
01:01:18
Speaker
So it's important to understand the distinction between a linguistic error and outright bigotry. Cause sure there are distinctions, like a whole bunch. So, so yeah, I mean, absolutely the thing is like, cause there are also times when I give someone the benefit, benefit of the doubt in a conversation. And then it turns out that they are a bigot and it's like, Oh, I had so much good sarcasm ready to go. And I held it back. Yep. Yep.
01:01:46
Speaker
Damn it. Yeah. The other thing too is the, to consider is if you, one thing I found in our even little community out here, we, there's a number of people that continue to fuck up my pronouns. Like they just, I've talked to them.
01:02:13
Speaker
i like I haven't had like maybe with one or two of the people, I haven't had like a sit down alone conversation about like, Hey, you keep fucking up my pronouns and all that. But I know other people who've had that and some of them continue to fuck them up no matter what. So when like this same person screwed up my pronouns just yesterday and I did nothing about it. ah And, and the, there's, there's reasons though. And it, Oh, Hey, that, that was not a judgment. I want to be clear. I don't, I don't, but it, it becomes kind of a, it's a pain in the ass when somebody is just not gonna use the right language. So,
01:03:11
Speaker
If, if we don't correct people who are screwing up our pronouns, that's for one of two reasons. One, we missed it altogether. Like that's possible. Like it might not even have registered that they screwed up our pronouns. Okay. But ah two is we don't think that you're worth Correcting. Well, it must be exhausting. It is. to It is. It really is. Um, and, and for me being, being non-binary, there's a couple of things that are really annoying that I've, I have not figured out how to get around. And one of them is being called sir. And this whole sir and ma'am thing, like that's gotta go.
01:04:13
Speaker
like i we We should as a society agree on something better, like esteemed guest. Your excellency. My liege. Yes, my liege. Yes, exactly. Yes, Captain, your my majesty. you know you're and but you know i know you know It is funny. We are laughing about it, but but the number of times that I've been served and I just, Oh, thank you, sir. God, just, uh, but and one and it's it's tough because there's not another honorific and there, there needs to be, yeah you know? Yeah. So you can't like, I get that you can, I can be, I can be mixed mariachi. That's okay. Like the, the Amex and that's fine. But, but the, the, the way that.
01:05:14
Speaker
Sir and ma'am have been ingrained in like all customer service people. yeah like yeah you cannot You cannot get rid of it.
01:05:26
Speaker
and that is, is a really, a really difficult thing to, to kind of deal with that. Cause there's no good answer. Like what, what do I say? You know, ah because if I do that, I'm both outing myself and like maybe having a conversation with somebody that I really don't want to have this conversation with.
01:05:58
Speaker
Or could be, or it might be that that person, I have a sense that they're actually okay. And we could maybe have that conversation, but probably not in the line in a store.
01:06:14
Speaker
Right. Right. Time and place. Yeah. And so it's a little tricky. that's That's, it's a lot different. And I, I still, like I said, I don't have any idea what to do about that.
01:06:29
Speaker
Probably. Well, you know, there used to be that SNL character, Pat, yup and the the humor in that sketch comes from people's embarrassment at not knowing how to address someone, yeah which could have been a great conversation for, for, and, and, and trans folks. And it, it wasn't, it was just played for laughs. And then we all forgot about it, yeah which is a shame. Sure. Meet, you know, in Pat, meet my friend, Chris, like, and and right like that yeah, that was a whole.
01:06:59
Speaker
That was a whole level of, of NB kind of. Well, and I'll tell you, when I first moved to Ann Arbor, I was meeting a lot of people that was just like, good afternoon, ma'am. Hey, sport. What's up? You know, like, I really was not sure. Like, even if I thought I could guess someone's assigned gender at birth, it doesn't, you know, necessarily follow that that's how they would want to be addressed now. No, no, they know, like, there's a lot and there's a lot of communities where you can
01:07:34
Speaker
If you assume things, that gets you in all sorts of trouble really, because anything could be true. Like it's, it's, yep. Yep. So. So listen, I really want to talk about music before we we run out of time here, because I know you play guitar and also violin. yeah um now i try i got I started working for Scharr Products, which is a violin company in Ann Arbor um in 2007, right before I got married.
01:08:05
Speaker
And my initial plan was I'm going to take lessons. And then at the end of a year or so, I'm going to do the store recital and it'll be silly. Cause I'll be like, you know, playing what ah a seven year old would play. Um, it turns out that a year would not get me anywhere close to what a seven year old who could play violin could play. And I was so bad at it. I have no musical talent. How how long have you been playing violin? and I've been playing well.
01:08:35
Speaker
in, I've been playing violin. I started when I was six. They, but it's a, it's a kind of a weird thing because after high school, I just kind of dropped the violin for like almost what, 11, 12 years. And now is that because you were made to play the violin? No, it just,
01:09:03
Speaker
It just became kind of a thing that I didn't want to do anymore. I mean, i there was there was parts of it that I liked, but by then, like in seventh or eighth grade, I took up electric guitar. And so the guitar kind of ah supplanted the violin. like Well, to a kid, that's going to seem much, much cooler, right? A guitar versus a violin? Yeah.
01:09:32
Speaker
I mean it was, but also like um I'm also the kid who used to follow along with my dad's David Bilstein recording of the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto and oh follow along in the music when I was young. so i yeah i did I thought violin was was pretty cool, but the the guitar was just a little more attractive at the time.
01:10:03
Speaker
and And I'd played a lot in high school in the pop concert and Don Darrow and, and all of that. And of course at your Fiddler on the Roof production. So I, I did a lot of that and I took, I took some guitar lessons for a while and then around was kind of a turning point around in like 98, 99, I started taking classical guitar lessons. And I also, around the same time, for whatever reason, I wanted to start playing violin again.
01:10:47
Speaker
And so I, so I did and I started, I started, uh, the number of years later I started actually, cause I was in a band. That was a really funny thing. I was at a friend's housewarming party and there were, there were some other people there and they're like, Hey, we hear you, you play violin. And I'm like, well, well, yeah, but I haven't really like seriously played in years. And, but.
01:11:17
Speaker
They're like, well, how would you like to be in an Irish band? And and I said, well, okay, why not? so so we did So I joined the band and we were we had a lot of fun as an Irish band and then we decided eventually that we would become like a jug, but jug music band, jug band music and like old time jazz and stuff like that. Because as an Irish band, you don't, you know, it's not like there's a whole bunch of places that always want Irish music. I mean, play around St. Patrick's Day, that's, you know, that was an easy thing because everybody wanted St. Patrick's Day live music, you know, but
01:12:05
Speaker
Uh, so we did that for a while and along the way, I really decided that I wanted to learn how to play violin better, become more finished. And so I started taking real violin lessons. And then a few years into that, I, I decided to not take classical lessons on the guitar anymore. Cause that's a lot to take lessons on two different instruments. Um, know sure so one of them was getting short shrift.
01:12:35
Speaker
and it was the classical guitar, but um but by and by i took I took that to work occasionally and I'd play at lunch and and that's how I got into the Renaissance Festival because one of the people important in the Renfest worked at my place of business and she said, hey,
01:13:01
Speaker
Would you want to come out for like a weekend and and try out and play at the festival? And I'm like, yeah, sure. So I ended up doing that for about 10 years or so. Wow. And it's just, I have a friend who does that. He like swallows sores and eats fire and stuff. And he does all the Renaissance festivals. It's a, it's a big thing. And, and I didn't realize that there's like a whole group that do they like travel around the country to different infests and all that. And that's ah that's a huge deal. But for me, with a day job and all that, to give up like seven weekends in a row, I would normally only play like three weekends, four tops. And that's just, it gets to be brutal. And I was always sure playing multiple stages. So it's like,
01:13:59
Speaker
You, you go back and forth across the thing with your instruments and, you know, a few times a day and, and sometimes it's hot and muggy and your fingers stick to the instrument and it's hard to play. And like there, there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons that's ah actually a really difficult gig, but, uh, some people just love it. So, you know, more power to them, but I've, I kind of decided that I'm going to Uh, not, not do that anymore. But when I, when I retire, which will be in January, I might want to maybe not take up Renaissance festival again, but maybe some other music thing will, you know, enter into my life. So I would hope so. I mean, once you retire, you actually have like time to do any dang thing you want that, uh, seems like it would open up a lot of, uh, possibilities. Yeah, I um me think so.
01:14:59
Speaker
So I have kind of a tough question for you, and this is a question that we ask because it turns out that a lot of people have had this experience and they tend not to talk about it. But I understand that there was a time in your life when, it like an incident, when you felt that your life was legitimately being threatened. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. Yeah. There's, there was a time, um,
01:15:29
Speaker
I was in a, ah we were, a friend of mine and I, we were going to a party and we stopped in a truck stop off of 23 and we we went into this truck stop and there were a few people in there and They they were like the kind that were looking and like pointing and and laughing at me. And oh I I was really like because obviously we stopped there. I had to use the restroom and I certainly I didn't feel comfortable really walking into any of the bathrooms when they were
01:16:25
Speaker
in, in the place of, in the, you know, a convenience store thing. And I just, I didn't really know like how to handle that because you're.
01:16:39
Speaker
i'm I am afraid that like that that things could, if I did or said the wrong thing, that things could turn violent. And and and even if somehow I was successful in fending them off or whatever, that if the cops are called, then like, you don't even know what the cops are going to be like. And I was, I was dressed, found my head wig on and makeup and all that. And it was just a, a really, a really unsettling experience and ended up that my partner just took me into the women's restroom.
01:17:26
Speaker
And we, we decided that, you know, that was the best course, but I think we also waited for the, those other three to leave before we did that, but it still felt it, you know, you get that sort of adrenaline reaction and you're, and you're kind of wired and, and it's, it's really unsettling. Um, I.
01:17:53
Speaker
You know, of other than that kind of experience, yeah, I mean, the people look at you and I've had some people like blatantly call attention to me, which is never fun. But those times I didn't really fear for my life.
01:18:13
Speaker
But those are- You hit on something really important, which is that even if you do manage to keep yourself safe, once the cops show up, that could go any number of ways.
01:18:29
Speaker
because yeah i mean i i I'm still uncomfortable with the term ACAB, but I don't have a legitimate argument against it, frankly. Cops are not, are not ah by and large, worthy of the power that we give them. no let's Let's say that. i would I would venture to say that as well. and i you know as When I grew up, I i really, like we all,
01:19:01
Speaker
in our little like lily white suburb of Froyolo, like we all thought the cops were good. Like, yeah of course they were good. Like, why wouldn't they be good? but But as I have gotten older and have had more experience with hearing about things from the the interwebs as it is and and other friends of mine that have been just really mistreated. And like i I have an entirely different opinion and feelings about cops now. Sure. Well, i think it's it I think it's impossible not to. and yeah If you're paying attention, I mean, my experience as a younger person was that I found cops to be unhelpful in situations when I had called them needing help.
01:19:58
Speaker
But I had, it had never occurred to me that I should be afraid of cops, you know, that a cop might hurt me and and get away like that as ah a white person, even when I was a criminal, um I did not have that, that, uh, experience of like, yeah, that's my weed. What are you going to do about it? You know, like i didn't write um even, even when I was breaking the law and getting caught, cops were still, you know, polite and courteous to me. They, they called me ma'am turn to the left, please, ma'am.
01:20:28
Speaker
Yeah, right. So. So, yeah, I. ah I feel that that wow. Cause I just, uh, I dunno, that's, that's so scary, you know, because it's, it basically means that like other people are living under the law, but it's, it's martial law where you are because the cops may or may not take you seriously. They may or may not, you know, like, I mean, women enough get like, Oh, you were harassed. Well, look at what you're wearing, but yeah if you are trans or envy.
01:21:02
Speaker
That's a whole like, well, why don't you just wear a sign that says, please give me shit for this? You know, like, yeah. yeah that And I think that's really, and that's really the point. Like, I mean, I, I also, like when I'm dressed femme, especially I avoid, I avoid groups of guys on the sidewalk, like Like, why wouldn't I? And, and there, and that's a, that's kind of a terrible thing to live with, but you, but you do find yourself like, Oh, look, I can walk across the street and I won't encounter these people. Perfect. Let's do that. You know, and, and that's me being white and six, one and pretty large.
01:21:54
Speaker
probably no one's going to screw with me, but but, but I don't, I don't know that for sure. And it's like you, so it makes me think like, Oh geez, the things I have problems with, I mean, if I weren't as large and if I weren't white, the, the difference would be monumental. And, and I, and so I have,
01:22:23
Speaker
That's part of why I'm as out as I am, because if i if I can't be out and that's why I'm completely out as trans at work, then like then what what chance do other people have? like and yeah It's gotta be normalized somehow, but it's still gonna be, as as we've talked about today, i mean it's still gonna be a long road.
01:22:51
Speaker
Because there's you know politically, there's a lot to do. ah and and And some prejudice, they just remain no matter how much evidence or experience there. I mean, honestly, I was on the internet last week and I met someone who is my same age and she thinks that left-handed people were touched by the devil. I mean, yeah like that is a thing that happened. But that's in history too.
01:23:22
Speaker
like that was yeah oh yeah the the um Well, it's not even that long ago, like 1980 is when they stopped trying to make kids right-handed where I live. like I was in Hazel Park schools then. You know the yeah yeah you know the the word for ah like a ah left left turn in Italian, right? It's c Sinistra. Well, I'm a Simpsons fan, so I know that sinister comes from the Latin word meaning left-handed. Yeah.
01:23:50
Speaker
So we we found that out when Ned opened the left. I am a huge Simpsons fan as well. So that. So do you um do you encourage people to contact you on social media? Because I'm sure everyone will find you fascinating after this interview. um You can. ah Sure, you can find me on on on Facebook, I guess. I mean, that if you look look me up under Nikki,
01:24:20
Speaker
Marietti. Um, I have my profile fairly locked down. So if somebody wants to find me, they might have to wait for a message for a while or, or. Okay. Well, you have a YouTube though too, right? Like a channel with all your stuff. Okay. Cool. And I, I believe I sent you the link to that one. So that will be.
01:24:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So we'll have it in the description. Yeah. So somebody could, if they wanted to ask something about trans or about ah trans issues or like ah changing name kind of stuff, because I did the legal name change last year, which is its own little Kafka-esque procedure and weird weird stuff.
01:25:06
Speaker
about you got to get a background check. You got to publish your name in the newspaper. It's all weird because the same thing is true. Like if you're a woman changing your last name without getting married, right like that's a whole ordeal. Right. If you get married, you get it for free. But yeah, yeah if you want to change it. And I think there's even a, um like if you get a divorce, there's a certain window that you can change your name back. Yes. But then if you go beyond that window, then you're stuck with all the people like me who just wanted to change their name. So, and well, the other thing too is I was, I was planning to go for the ax on my driver's license and passport, but then it was, it was kind of a big to do at the secretary of state and I kind of forgot to ask. So.
01:25:59
Speaker
And I had had a little misgivings about that, but like anybody who wants their gender to be an ex that could be used as a filter to find all the, all the weirdos or something. And when we get even more handmaid's tail, you don't want to, you you don't want that. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to give them, I don't want to be like handing them the bullets really like that. That's not the best plan.
01:26:23
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's dangerous enough to have an F, but an X might. ah Yeah. Yeah. that's And it's a shame because obviously ah the goal should be a world where everybody gets to live authentically and nobody is offended by anyone else's authenticity. Yeah. that would that That would be the goal, but we're not we're we're not there yet. So that's it's unfortunate. but So I also, I always want to ask our guests before the end, uh, before we get to the mad lab, if you have any questions for me. So do you probably have lots of questions about your, uh, your high school time, but, uh, we can, we can go into that offline, I think. Oh, seriously. I spent most of it working at McDonald's, honestly. Um, aside from a little drama club stuff, I was, cause I worked full time. My senior year, our store got fined because I was a minor working so many hours. Oh, wow.
01:27:24
Speaker
That's yeah, but I just, I wanted to get the hell out and I needed money and I, you know, that whole thing. Yeah. But that was a, that's a wild, it's a wild thing. I mean, I ended up, I think my senior year, I think I, I ended up clerking at a drug store. I think a little bit. I think I, I worked at Romaine pharmacy and when that was there right before it went to Liberty drug right before. Right. Then it became like.
01:27:54
Speaker
Memphis spoke or something on the corner of Lebanon, Maine. And that was, yeah, that's a whole thing. So. All right. Well, then let us get to the Madlib. Um, it looks like yours has a bunch of adjectives in it. One, two, three, four, five adjectives. Nope. Six. Nope. Five. Five adjectives.
01:28:23
Speaker
All right. Let's see. Red.
01:28:30
Speaker
Gigantic. Round. All right. Three more. Round. Uh-huh. Sharp. Formulaic. All right. So now this one actually had two that said person in room female. So I scratched those out. So we're going to do now when we say two person in room, um obviously there's two of us. So it's you and me. So do you want to be first or second? Oh, i I can be first. That'll be fine. Okay. All right. And then I will be the second person.
01:29:07
Speaker
All right, so I need two nouns, please. Nope, three, three singular nouns. A train.
01:29:18
Speaker
A speaker. Okay. And a lamppost. I need two plural nouns. Oh wait, I guess I just need one, one plural noun. Trees. All right, a part of the body. Leg.
01:29:38
Speaker
and a part of the body plural. Ears. Okay, so this is called pillow fight. The last time I went to a sleepover, a red pillow fight broke out. Out of nowhere, Nikki grabbed their gigantic fluffy train and began swinging it at anyone close to them.
01:30:03
Speaker
Soon, everyone else joined in. At one point, I got hit right in the back of my leg. See, we should have said penis. I don't know why we didn't. um but As soon as I recovered, I tossed my speaker at Wednesse's ears, but I missed. Instead, I knocked over an expensive lamp post and my pillows split open. Trees flew everywhere, covering the room in a layer of round feathers.
01:30:33
Speaker
The fighting stopped when we all broke out in sharp laughter. The fun ended when we realized we had to clean up the formulaic mess.
01:30:46
Speaker
See? Delightful.
01:30:51
Speaker
Nikki, I am so glad that you could be here and that we could do this interview. I learned a bunch and I hope everyone else finds you as fascinating as I do. ah Is there anything you want to tell listeners before I do the ending you know plug thing?
01:31:07
Speaker
oh just ah You know, give your anybody who's going through a lot of ah troubles with identity or whatever. One of the biggest things that we talk about is self-compassion. And it's also, of course, one of the hardest things to do because we're always so hard on ourselves. But give yourself grace as you're trying to figure out all this stuff.
01:31:38
Speaker
It'll, it'll pay dividends later. Might not feel like it, but it'll happen eventually. So thanks for having me, Wendis.
01:31:49
Speaker
Oh, right on. It was our pleasure. ah We are ah sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. We can be found on Ko-Fi slash Sometimes Hilarious Horror, um because we do have the quarterly magazine for all the funny horror stuff. And if you want to support us, that is the best way. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week.