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Guest: Editor, Sex Writer, and Ju Jitsu Instructor Robin Zabiegalski
21 Plays7 days ago
Wednesday Lee Friday talks with Robin Zabiegalski about body dysmorphia, depression and anxiety. We discuss sex writing and education, recovery and medication, why your diagnosis matters, and the consistent Call of the Void. TW for suicide and addiction/recovery/
Robin Zabiegalski (they/them) is a queer, non-binary writer and editor with several years of experience in digital media. Their specialties include: sexual health, sexuality, relationships, mental health, LGBTQIA+ issues, and wellness. Robin's work has been published in Insider, Health Digest, Glam, The Establishment, The Tempest, Heavy.com, The Inquisitr and several other digital publications.
A transcript of this episode can be found here.
Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art. Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi, friends. My name is Wednesday Lee Friday, and you are listening to The Mentally Oddcast. We are brought to you by sometimes hilarious horror. And if you want to support us, which you totally should, you can find us on Ko-Fi, sometimes hilarious horror. and This week, we have Robin Zabagulski, and I really hope I said that right because I did not ask for a phonetic on that. You did. It's actually pretty impressive. Awesome! Awesome! Okay, so Robin is a queer, non-binary writer and editor. ah They live in Vermont. Other specialties include sexual health, sexuality and relationships, mental health, LGBTQIA plus issues, and general wellness. When they're not working, Robin can be found teaching or practicing yoga and a Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Are you kidding me? You know we're...
00:01:29
Speaker
ah hiking, playing Fortnite with the husband, and and you have a kid too. I do. That's a lot to be getting on with. Welcome, Robin. I'm so glad you could be here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. um Full disclosure, ah we met through Kinkly, and we'll certainly be talking about that in a bit.
00:01:50
Speaker
I'll reserve my swears for then. um So we actually like to start the show by asking guests to tell us the story of the first horror movie they remember seeing. Okay, so I was thinking about this, okay and I cannot remember the first horror movie I ever saw. I was only allowed to watch PBS and Star Trek The Next Generation until I was 12, which of course did not include sneaking over to friends' houses to watch things, um ok but I can remember the first movie that terrified me.
00:02:23
Speaker
And it was the Batman movie where Danny DeVito is the penguin and he like bites off somebody's nose. yeah Yes. And I saw that when I was like four. um And I didn't talk to my parents for a solid like four or five days because I was convinced that they were going to give me back like the penguins parents did if I was a bad kid. um So she traumatized me a little bit.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, my God, that wow. See, the thing is, this question blows my mind because sometimes people tell me, you know, just about, you know, people are about my age and they'll say some movie and we'll talk about movies and But then sometimes I hear something like this, which is I mean, I absolutely concede that it certainly if you're not used to horror movies, that that particular version of The Penguin would be pretty terrifying. Terrifying. He bit somebody's nose off. Yeah. Well, and someone who was not threatening him like it was a there it was a totally villainous action. Yeah. so Yeah. And then then like to to compound that with the idea of like, oh, parents can give people back.
00:03:37
Speaker
morning Like if I guess if you if you like your parents, that that would be pretty ah pretty scary. I would have been like, wait, I could get new parents? That is dope. How do I do who apply? Who do I speak to? Let me just get my kid COV in order.
00:03:53
Speaker
um are yeah sorry so So like I was saying, though, you and I actually met because we're both sex writers. um I don't know how you got involved in sex writing.
00:04:05
Speaker
Um, I think it was just, I was trying to remember this as well. Cause it's been a long time. I, um, the first article I wrote for kinkly was probably like seven years ago. Um, and I think it was probably just the mad dash of, Oh shit. I like quit my job and now I'm a freelancer and I need to like pitch a bunch of places.
00:04:26
Speaker
yeah um And I had, I'm pretty sure I had a friend who also had written for Kinkly and gave me Tara's email. um So it's something that I just kind of fell into. um And for a long time, I wasn't really doing, like sex writing wasn't necessarily my main focus in freelancing. um And then maybe a couple of years ago, it just worked out where all of the gigs that I got consistently were about sexual health. And I was like, hmm, that's pretty interesting. um And since then, it's been pretty much that for the past couple of years or so. So I guess in in my experience, the more sex writing I did and the more research I did on it,
00:05:17
Speaker
the more it became clear that there was a lot of information out there that was important that people didn't know. ah yes who did ah How much would you say that fueled you as far as staying in the industry?
00:05:32
Speaker
um I mean, I don't think that it was a huge motivation for me in the beginning, um but especially now having, well, I spent the last six months as the managing editor over at Kinkly, and that time really like, got me about how much people just don't have information. um you know And it's something that I think that I tend to forget. I grew up in New England. I grew up in a fairly progressive town. um And I hate that I have to like qualify that like I grew up in a fairly progressive town to have comprehensive sex education. um but i But I did. I mean, my sex education was was pretty good compared to a lot of people. um And I remember doing being in an article, not for Kinkley, for somewhere else um a few years ago, about what does Yahoo Answers have to say about
00:06:31
Speaker
how you can get pregnant, um which was one of the funniest articles I've ever written, but also really sad in that there were a lot of teenagers on there telling other teenagers that you could get sex from like having oral sex or from anal um or in a hot tub if somebody came. It's not like excuses ah men make when they get someone pregnant. right Oh, it was a hot tub. People were freaking out about these ants like poor kids, like girls, coming on to Yahoo Answers, which, oh, God, why? um And asking, like this is what happened, could I get pregnant?
00:07:16
Speaker
and getting these kinds of answers. And I'm like, oh my God, this like gosh this is the state of things. um And so now, like, 100% that education part of it is is huge for me. um And then I also, like, I think the real passion that I discovered in doing more work for Kinkly was like the social justice aspect of yeah the adult industry.
00:07:45
Speaker
um you know, advocating for sex worker rights and um like destigmatizing so many of the things that people are still like, no, we can't talk about that in like polite society. um And I'm like,
00:07:59
Speaker
No, thank you. We can talk about whatever we want to anywhere pretty much. ah So that's really like, you know, and as I, again, we'll talk about a transition out of kinkly, that's been like my main driver for wanting to stay in writing um with the sex industry is just there's so much inequity um when it comes to sex and such sex education.
00:08:27
Speaker
and how we're treating people who work in this industry. Nice, nice, love it. Yeah, it's it's funny you you say ah that, because actually one of my earliest argument articles for Kinkley was about contraceptive misconceptions. And it was that, it was about things that that you've heard, like is saran wrap okay? What if you jump up and down after? You know, like, I don't know if if you've ever read the original book, Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask, the 70s book.
00:08:57
Speaker
No. that be Oh, definitely get your hands on a copy because some of it is hilarious. um Yeah. I read it and as a kid. I actually found it at a garage sale ah oh yeah back in the day. And one of the things that it suggested people do is that Coca-Cola used to come in these eight ounce bottles. And they said after sex, you could shake it up and insert it. And if you did it soon enough,
00:09:25
Speaker
it I mean, I don't even know where to begin. It's like, first of all, no, you do not want sugar there, but also like you don't want acid there. You probably don't want like effervescent liquids there. I mean, that's a very specific kink, but there was just so much wrong with it that I was like,
00:09:43
Speaker
And this was a mainstream book. I mean, for fucks sake, they made a movie about it. It was a comedy, but still. Yeah. Have you ever seen that movie? It's a Woody Allen movie. So, you know, I have not. It's not going to hold up very well. But back in the day, I mean, well, because like Gene Wilder falls in love with a sheep. Love that. And he's like, I mean, there's the where he's like in a motel room with the sheep, like in lingerie and buying it jewelry. It's like it's insane. It is insane.
00:10:13
Speaker
But um so so ah did you do you have a degree? I do. I have a made up degree um in that it was an an independent study degree of all of the things that I could manage to cobble together into a bachelor's. OK. um Because it took me 10 years um and five different colleges to finish my bachelor's um because of addiction. um So it took me forever to get my degree. And by the end of it, I was just like, OK, if I smash all these credits together, what will you call it? um So I have a bachelor's in professional studies with a concentration in business. um So nothing that applies to my current life at all. Wow. Well, it's interesting because I actually my degree, my undergrad degree is in ah tech theater and broadcast journalism.
00:11:10
Speaker
and if you If you just look at it as theater and broadcasting, it actually starts it translates pretty well to being a phone sex operator, which was my first job in the sex industry. Again, not not really what my parents had in mind. um They didn't take that very well, but the thing is I went no contact when I was like 24. I had not yet begun to do things that they would judge me for. so and yep yeah so so I mean, I definitely want to get into a bunch of what you just said, but before we do, I am curious to know how friends and family responded to you becoming a sex writer and and actually becoming like a major player at the at the website. um I mean, I think that the people who are like really the closest to me were like, this makes sense. um I'm absolutely not surprised.
00:12:05
Speaker
um my parents I mean, my parents are like hippies from the 60s, 70s. They are fairly progressive. um And I think at this point with me, they're just kind of like Yeah, okay. um You know, like everything that I do is just gonna, it's just gonna be one more thing that Robin's doing. um So I don't think they cared all that much, although I did absolutely give them like a, hey, because they read everything that I write, um which is kind of cute. um But i they definitely got the, okay, so some of these articles are gonna be about my actual sex life. Please do not read them.
00:12:53
Speaker
because I do not want to answer any of your questions about this. And as far as I know, they've respected that, um or at least they haven't asked me about it. So, yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker
Wow, that's that's pretty cool, actually. It is, yeah. you know when When I decided to like go public as a sex writer, I went through Facebook and just contacted my whole family and was like, hey, I'm doing this now. So if you want to like not tell people that I'm your cousin, that's OK. Well, because my family, like through some parts of our family, bipolar disorder and some other things just like run through like a weed, right?
00:13:38
Speaker
so yeah So the parts of the family that don't have it are a bunch of like professional people, you know, they like yeah excelled in life, like their feet were put on a path and then they went and got successful. And the rest of us are just like, yeah, well, you know what, I'm a dildo reviewer deal with it. Yeah. So, so that's, that's really interesting. There's actually something else that is like sticking in my mind and I have to bring it up because I think of.
00:14:05
Speaker
restricting a kid's TV viewing to that extent where you're pretty much only watching like PBS and and Star Trek. i I really think of that as is a conservative thing and not a progressive thing, even though Star Trek certainly is an extremely progressive show. um i'm I'm used to very like churchy, Baptist in particular, just in my life experience, that's who I knew were the kind of people that ah that avoided that sort of thing. Can you speak to that at all? Like what am I not what am i missing here? Yeah, no, we were churchy people, um just not churchy people in the way that a lot of people are churchy people. um It's actually really interesting because I was like, I was an every Sunday church person until I
00:14:52
Speaker
left for college. um Actually, interesting side note, I almost went to seminary. Oh, wow. But like i I lived in like this very insular church world that was extremely progressive and really affirming. um like The church that I went to when I was a kid was like one step shy of Unitarian. But Like i didn't I didn't recognize like this Christianity and that other people were talking about. um You know, like I grew up in the late 90s, early 2000s, I graduated in 2005, you know, so like prime conservative right, ah like just meshing with evangelicals. um And when I heard them talking about their,
00:15:48
Speaker
I don't know, quote-unquote Christianity. I was like, that's not real. That's not any kind of Christianity that I am familiar with. So you practiced the Christianity where you followed Jesus. I did, yeah. And not that other kind. The socialism kind, where we help each other and community care was really important.
00:16:12
Speaker
and like you know we actually supported people? oh Yeah, I don't know. I mean, i did not it's still a big thing for me. I would say that I i would like i would not call myself Christian today. I'm extremely spiritual, um but i still like I still have a lot of trouble with this representation of what Christianity is in America. um Because I'm just like that is it resembles nothing of what I grew up with. um And I think on the TV thing, it was probably just more like they didn't want the violence of other shows, um although
00:16:54
Speaker
space violence in Star Trek somehow didn't count. Yeah, I was going to say Star Trek. Yeah, it gets a little yeah violent at times. Yeah. But we also like I couldn't play with toy guns or toy weapons at all. We were like very like pacifist. So yeah. um What about games? Were you allowed to play games? I grew up down the street. I mean, board games.
00:17:20
Speaker
Um, okay. No video games. Well, I knew girls in my neighborhood that were not allowed to play any game that had dice or cards. Oh, play like we couldn't play Uno because that was yeah nuni would gambling.
00:17:33
Speaker
No, no, no, not not like that at all. ok We played some pretty mean cribbage in my house. That's actually how I learned to add was playing cribbage. nice um But no video games. And when my um cousin gave me a Sega Genesis, I was only allowed to get Disney games.
00:17:53
Speaker
um So I have beaten Page Master, Pocahontas, and Lion King several times, but I never played. Even Sonic was not allowed in our house. Well, it seems like that was when video games kind of started getting dirty.
00:18:08
Speaker
because, like, Grand Theft Auto was happening in the Conker's Bad Fur Day. I was I was managing for blockbusters when Conker's Bad Fur Day came out. So it was a whole thing of like all these like 11 and 12 year old kids wanting to rent it. And I'm like, I'm sorry, man. i Your mom has to OK this. I have to. Yeah. You know. Blockbuster. Oh, man. What a throwback. Right. Right. um So you actually mentioned um being in recovery ah for for addiction. um yeah i were you Was it a dual diagnosis program or were you tackling one thing at a time? or um I didn't end up going to um a treatment program. um I did group work ah group recovery work. um Actually, today is my 14-year sober anniversary. Oh, wow. Congratulations. Thank you.
00:19:03
Speaker
Yeah, um but I just kind of I showed up at 12 step programs um and so let them walk me through um what to do with myself because I was a little bit of a mess. No, a lot of bit of a mess. um Yeah, so I didn't end up doing um any like formal treatment program. um And I mean, I had been I got diagnosed with um major depression really early. I was like nine oh um because I was, um and I think we're going to get into this, but I was like very suicidal um from a very young age. and That's just
00:19:45
Speaker
how my brain decided to be. um So I had already been getting treatment-ish for depression and anxiety um and like wondering why I wasn't getting anywhere with that or feeling any better. Are you medicated?
00:20:03
Speaker
I was medicated on and off. um I mean, I have now learned many years later um that they don't generally ah recommend medicating kids under 18. So I went through a lot of ah weird medication stuff in high school. um And because of that, did a lot of not medicating um as a young adult. I got sober at 23, so I also didn't like,
00:20:33
Speaker
I didn't make it that long um as an addict alcoholic, not in recovery and like dealing with depression and anxiety at the same time. um I did like ah had resistance to getting medicated once I was sober, um thanks to some really archaic ah thinking in certain recovery circles. um yeah But i mean I feel like What works for people works for people, right? um And there were times that I was on medication while I was still drinking. There were times I weren't i wasn't on medication while I was still drinking. um And at least for me, none of it was gonna work while I was drinking as much as I was drinking and doing as many drugs as I was doing. um So yeah. Wow. um So how long were you using? Like problematic using, I guess I should say?
00:21:34
Speaker
um I mean, I started drinking really young too. I started drinking when I was 12, but I didn't like drink actively until I was 23. I would say the worst of it was really like freshman year of college until I got sober. um Because it is kind of hard to drink a lot in high school unless you have streams of ways to get alcohol and drugs. um But once they went away to college, there was no ah prohibitions on any of that and lots of easy access. It's hard to tell in college if you're an alcoholic because it seems like everybody is drinking a lot. Right. but Like you could always find someone who's drinking at any time. Yes.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yes. Well, and I mean, that was part of my problem even starting to get sober too is like I was, again, I was 23. Like all my friends were drinking the way that I was drinking. Most of the people I worked with were drinking the way I was drinking because I was 23 and I worked at a startup, a tech startup. um So, I mean, I didn't really think it was a problem until it was a problem um and it is really hard to recognize that especially again tech startup life like half the work we did was at bars um because that's the culture um you know so like when you're surrounded by it it's really hard to
00:23:06
Speaker
to figure out what is too much and what isn't. um And I mean, I guess the differentiator for me ended up being that most people were not drinking every single day. um And most people were not drinking as much as I was drinking, um which isn't to say that how much you drink or how often you drink is like the marker of addiction. um But that's what helped me like differentiate myself from the other people who are partying really hard, is going into work, hungover, saying to everybody, hey, should we go out again tonight? And people are like, eh, I'm like really wrecked from last night. I'm going to stay home. And I still ended up going out. Uh-huh. I see.
00:23:56
Speaker
so How did that, I mean, if if you're dealing with that and you you know that you're, you're have, if you, what am I trying to say? If, if you know already that you're dealing with mental health issues and then you're self-medicating with alcohol, how do you pull yourself out of that? I mean.
00:24:18
Speaker
it's It's rough. like i think that I don't think that I necessarily associated the drinking problem with the mental health problem um until I got sober, which sounds really silly, no but I wasn't like actively thinking, like oh, I am drinking because everything hurts too much always. Right. um But like that's what it was. like Depression, anxiety, undiagnosed ADHD, which I didn't get diagnosed with until two years ago. um like All of that was making it impossible to live in my body and feel all my feelings and be.
00:24:58
Speaker
on a daily basis. um And I know that until I stopped drinking. um I mean, for me, what ended up being the thing, like everybody talks about, you know, the thing that makes them realize they need to get sober, um was really the physical dependency. I really wanted to not drink one day. I had never had the experience of not wanting to drink in one day and I drank anyway. um And that was the first time that I realized that I don't have any control over this at all.
00:25:32
Speaker
um And I, up until that point, had been like, oh, I can stop if I want to stop. i you know This is not a problem for me. um But I didn't want to drink, and I drink anyway. um And for me, that was that was it. um For other people, it's... any number of things. um But i I never got arrested, even though I should have been. I never got a DUI, even though I should have. um you know I never lost a job, even though I should have. um I just managed to barely keep my life together enough um that
00:26:08
Speaker
it just never occurred to me that it was a problem until I realized that I didn't have any control over it. um and For me, what that looked like was trying 12-step programs um and figuring out what was going to work for me and what wasn't. um and i mean I have ah feelings about 12-step programs. um and I would say that it saved my life. um I think what really changed things for me was like the the deep work. And they do deep work in 12-step programs. um There are other ways to do deep work, is what I know now. um you know But looking at that, like what is it inside of me that is like making everything hurt so much, that I have to do this all the time?
00:27:00
Speaker
um and that I can't stand to like be in my life um on a daily basis if I'm not using a substance. The physical addiction of booze, it really can sneak up on you. like I know several people. and it's another like you know We talk about things that we think are common knowledge that at average people don't know. For your body, physically, once you are physically addicted to alcohol,
00:27:26
Speaker
coming off of it is at least as dangerous as coming off of heroin. It is what it can do to your body. But there isn't really a like a methadone for alcohol. You just know you have to mean as far as I know, the people that I've seen doing it, they have to just kind of taper their drinking and they'll have a shot like every four hours and then it's every eight hours and you have to just wean yourself down. And it is an ordeal, man. I do not envy that for sure. Yep. I went cold turkey.
00:27:55
Speaker
um and just didn't sleep for like five days in like cold sweats. And I mean, I did not like I didn't, they call it kicking, and like when you're having like seizures from um detoxing from alcohol. I, thank God, did not have any seizures, did not have any like major like health stuff, which can absolutely happen. But I couldn't sleep. I was sweating my ass off. I was irritable as fuck. And it just, you just ride it out. like There's not a lot of,
00:28:29
Speaker
There's not a lot to do about it. You just kind of ride it out. um I probably should have done like a formal detox program um to be like medically safe. um But there's also not a lot of like guidance around that. You know, like in my brain, like, oh, if you need a medical detox, it's because like you're drinking so much that you're going to have a seizure if you stop drinking. And I didn't think that was me.
00:28:55
Speaker
um Who knows? It could have been me. yeah But yeah, so yeah, there's just not a lot of guidance about like, what do you do? um And I think that it's great that we have a lot more guidance about opioid usage um because it is really freaking dangerous um to detox. And you're right, it can be just as dangerous um to detox from alcohol.
00:29:27
Speaker
So with that, I mean, with all of that going on, you're also non-binary. Now I have to think that that impacted your experience getting help with with both mental illness and addiction. like all of that must have played in. Well, it's interesting. um I actually i didn't come out until about two and a half years ago. um So I was already sober. um I was already pretty well managed in a lot of my mental health diagnoses. um And I think that
00:30:01
Speaker
once I had kind of like the chaos of all of that more under control um and I started to like sink into oh I just have like a regular life. um That's when I really started to experience like a lot of gender dysphoria um and I think that a lot of it is like this this constant dissociation, right, of like, I've always kind of felt like there was something not right about me, um but I could never pin it down to anything. um Like even from that like very young age of, you know, having a lot of suicidal ah or ideation, like being diagnosed with depression, like there was just this like constant feeling that like something is not right.
00:30:52
Speaker
um And I didn't like have that experience that a lot of trans folks have of like my body isn't right. um Or like gender norms don't like fit me. um It was just like this general feeling of like I am not right somehow. um And I was very much a tomboy. I was very much allowed to be a tomboy. um you know So i I never really had that understanding um of of gender, really. um And even as I got into like college and into my 20s and I had friends who transitioned, um
00:31:37
Speaker
you know, they were all binary trans folks. They were all transitioning male to female or female to male. um And I've remember, it's so funny in hindsight, not then, but in hindsight, I distinctly remember thinking like, oh, it's an option to just be something else. Oh, but I'm not a man either. So I guess I'm just stuck with this whole being a woman thing um that I don't really like. um and i I just didn't know. I didn't know that there were other options. I didn't know that my experience was that. you know so many people i mean So many people aren't getting even the most basic sex education from their public school system.
00:32:31
Speaker
And then when somebody says, come on, we need to broaden what we're teaching. We need it to be more inclusive. People lose their freaking minds about it. Yes, they do. But this is the result of it. People grow up, live their lives. They might, you know, get married, have kids, whatever, and still not be aware that there are options, which is not to say that, you know, anybody would regret like getting married or having kids. But right. It's the kind of thing you want to do once you know yourself really well.
00:33:01
Speaker
you know, build a life and put other people in it. So yeah, and and people talk now I hear a lot of people say like, well, everything is trans now, everything is, you know, this and that nobody's normal. And it's like, first of all, I don't know that there is like a normal, you know, there are just degrees of everything. Yeah. But The idea that keeping information from people somehow keeps them safe is just so outlandish. I don't know where to be. No outlandish. It affects things because it makes people vulnerable to predators. Yes, absolutely. And when you hear that kind of talk,
00:33:37
Speaker
It so often comes from predators because I'm sorry. But, you know, the GOP, they're just like they're they're like a ah sex factory now. I mean, it's it is never a surprise to me when I find out that some of them have assaulted people or are doing weird things to children. Like I'm just like, of course they are. Of course they are. Yeah. I mean, and the thing is that I until I became a sex writer,
00:34:03
Speaker
I, first of all, I thought that the old men who perved on me as kids were outliers. It turns out that, I mean, worldwide, this is not an American problem. It's not a problem with any one ethnicity or religion or or anything like that. There is a whole giant stripe of men.
00:34:23
Speaker
that really just wants a bunch of virgin children to raise into slave wives. And it's terrifying how normalized it's become, you know even in in things like you know Trump saying, well, yeah, I've never changed a diaper. You have five children, and you've never changed a diaper, and you're proud of it. like Doesn't surprise me at all. These are the kind of men, they're like the frigging sopranos. They make fun of the guy who doesn't have a mattress.
00:34:51
Speaker
You know, it's so gross, just the whole mindset. And I don't like, which, you know, if if that's how people want to live, it's, it's none of my business. If everybody is a informed consent, having person in this scenario, it's, it's really none of my business, but quit tell, telling everybody else what to do and pretend that people are immoral for things that are not hurting anyone. Right. Yep. So yeah. Yeah. A little soapbox there.
00:35:21
Speaker
Um, let me ask you this, when you were going through recovery, like particularly during your low points, what kind of support did you receive and what kind of support do you wish you had received?
00:35:36
Speaker
Um, i'm I mean, I had a really good recovery community around me. Um, people I met in recovery, um, and really deep friendships I made in recovery. Um, so that was my main support. Um, I wish I had gone to therapy earlier. Um, I held off on going to therapy for a long time after I got sober.
00:36:04
Speaker
um because I was like, oh, well, I'm doing this work in these recovery groups. Like, I'm fine. um I was not fine. And I wish I had gone to therapy earlier. um I wish people had encouraged me to go to therapy earlier. I'm surprised that you, because you were churchy, isn't it common to go to your minister to to talk about things like that?
00:36:30
Speaker
I mean, probably. um I think I'm grateful that my parents both went to therapy um and took me to therapy. um So I just knew that therapy was a thing. um And I mean, yeah, there's a lot of like, I feel like there's also like a disconnect sometimes between um in Christianity, like what is your minister's job and what is like a therapist's job. um And there are definitely people or branches of Christianity where that is included in a minister's scope of practice.
00:37:11
Speaker
um But that wasn't how I was raised either. um you know We went to the minister to talk about you know regular relation like relational stuff. But like when it came to, oh, OK, you have depression. I went to a therapist. um And I'm really grateful for that. Because I know a lot of people who grew up very religious who did not go to therapy when they really needed to go to therapy.
00:37:42
Speaker
um So yeah, I mean, I think I just knew that that was an option um and thought that I like had it handled. um And the truth is everybody, everybody could do with some therapy at some point in their lives, yeah if not always.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah, I'm actually of the belief that an annual mental health exam is at least as important as an annual physical. which Oh, hell yeah. And I mean, here in America, a lot of people don't do either because they just don't have access. But that's the kind of thing, you know, just a general, how are you sleeping? How are you feeling lately? Have you gone off on anybody? How much of your behavior did you come to regret? You know, yeah, couple of icebreaker questions.
00:38:27
Speaker
So, if you how would you advise somebody that has a friend who's going through what you went through? Like, how would you be a supportive friend to such a person?
00:38:39
Speaker
This is interesting and because for many years, my very quick first answer would have been find a 12-step program around you. um And I still think that's good advice. um I have also really broadened my idea of what addiction recovery can look like um or what steps towards recovery can look like.
00:39:06
Speaker
um So, I think that the first thing that I would say is learn about harm reduction. Just learn about what harm reduction is, um what it looks like. You know, talk to, we, um where I live in Burlington, Vermont, we have a um like a recovery center that's like a day, like it's open during the day. um It's not a program. It's not a treatment center. um It's just a place that people can go to hang out. And as long as you say you're sober, when you show up at the door, they let you in. And as long as you stay sober while you were in in the building, they let you in. um And I know a lot of people who
00:39:48
Speaker
have really struggled to get sober who just like would stay sober enough to hang out there for the day. And even if they drank at night, as long as they were sober, when they came back, they could go in and hang out.
00:40:03
Speaker
um and eventually that exposure to people in recovery, um to meetings that were held and in the space, to counseling, to recovery coaching, a lot of those people end up getting sober. um you know And things like there are apps now to help you cut down on your drinking. Some of them even like have had studies done on them. um you know So like I would say,
00:40:31
Speaker
It's not all or nothing. um It can be if that's what works for you. I'm a very black and white thinker, um so I had to be done with no option um to pick it up again or else I would have just not gotten sober. um But for some people, it really works to just cut down um With the support of a recovery coach, a therapist, um a drug and alcohol counselor, um you know just do what you can um little by little and notice how you feel. Notice how it changes your life and because that was definitely my experience. like i would not
00:41:14
Speaker
have stayed sober um if my life did not change. um And I will be 100% honest, like it's it's really hard work. um One of the stupid slogans that I've heard over and over again that I don't like, but it's true, is if nothing is changed if nothing changes, nothing changes. yeah um like You have to do a lot of really deep work on yourself as a person.
00:41:43
Speaker
um in order to stay sober. That's my experience. I don't know a lot of people who really like headfirst dove into addiction um or alcoholism and have come out without doing a lot of self-reflection, self-inquiry, therapy, step work, whatever it is that works for people.
00:42:06
Speaker
um And it's going to suck and it's not going to be fun and you're going to see things about yourself that you don't really like. um But the great thing is when you see it, you can change it. um And that's really like that is really the foundation of you know, my long-term sobriety, at least, is that um continual kind of like, how am I doing? What's going on? How often am I losing my shit? How often am I doing things that are not the kindest for people? um How often am I intentionally or unintentionally causing harm in somebody else's life? And what am I doing about that if I do do that? Am I cleaning up my side of the street?
00:42:52
Speaker
um You know, that's the kind of stuff that you have to do over and over. Um, and it does get easier. And eventually it just becomes like the way that you're living your life. Um, and it doesn't take all that much effort, but it takes a lot to get there. Yeah, I would, I would totally agree. Now I'm not, I'm not a sober person. I'm actually quite comfortable being a functional addict. ah You know, if I may be honest, no, I went through, um, like group and 12 step programs and stuff.
00:43:23
Speaker
And, um, I have a lot of feelings about it. ah Um, well, cause first of all, a group is made up of people. So however that works out, like, you know, you can go to group and have a terrible time and walk away and say, yeah, well, group isn't for me. No, man. yes That group is, is maybe not for you, right but it doesn't, you know, it's it's like, if you see a therapist and you have a bad session, they're not the right therapist for you.
00:43:49
Speaker
That doesn't mean therapy doesn't work. If you try a medication and you don't feel like fixed or whatever, that doesn't mean medication doesn't work. So I think yeah that's a pretty important thing to bring up. It's something that I actually learned in in recovery that I did not know is that in these groups where I was, because I was at a place for poor people, um there were a lot of people that were there because a judge made them go there.
00:44:17
Speaker
Also true. Those people I found were disruptive. Often they were rude and dismissive and generally like offended at the idea that they or anyone should get sober. And at the time, my thinking was judges shouldn't sentence people to that. That's a dumb thing to make people do. All it does is bother people that want to be there. And I felt really strongly about it just based on my personal experience. And when I told my individual therapist about that, She showed me the stats and, God damn it, it turns out that what you said is actually true. That just being around other sober people and being exposed to the alternatives helps people. It helps people who are resistive to getting sober get sober more often than it it doesn't, you know? yeah And it could take a long time. I always joke.
00:45:10
Speaker
that addicts and and Weight Watcher people say the same thing. Like, of course you do. I've done it six times. like yeah ah Yep. Yep. So um so i think I think it's time to talk about Kinkly. Now, for people who don't know,
00:45:28
Speaker
Kinkly started in, I want to say 2009 is when the company formed Intelligent Sex Writing, predominantly for women, oh reviewing sex toys. um I came on board in 2012. It was my first ah freelance job after I quit my last day job, which was an office job. So I was pretty excited. I was writing about phone sex. um I was making $25 an article.
00:45:55
Speaker
And I was so happy because I was writing things that I wanted to write about and someone was paying me and then strangers were reading it and I was getting mail and getting like hearing back good feedback. So that was like a dream come true as a writer and it just got better and better since because that company just grew and grew and grew and did all this amazing work. Last year they were bought out by, are we going to say,
00:46:24
Speaker
Mmm, maybe not I was gonna say you're you're still there for I'm still employed there for a few more weeks So it was ah bought by um I don't know how racist it is to say it's a foreign outfit but it was bought by some people that are not from this neighborhood and ah We were told actually that it was a great thing that they were gonna be pouring a whole bunch of money into it and there were a couple different websites we were gonna be working with lots and lots of opportunity to be pitching things and heaven series and all kinds of cool stuff and And less than a year later, everybody's contracts were terminated with very little warning. I mean, two weeks notice isn't very much when you're a freelancer and a lot of your dates are two weeks out anyway. um so ah So how are you doing with all that? um It's been a lot.
00:47:14
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, I i think that um one of the hardest things for me in the entire situation is that like I worked with all of you writing, you know what I mean? Like I did exactly what you were all doing and then suddenly I was the editor yeah um who was like,
00:47:40
Speaker
Yeah, um I ended up being the voice of a lot of changes, um communicating that to people that I used to work with, um who I very much liked. Yeah. and Well, and in middle management, man, that's why middle management sucks. Because you have all this responsibility, and you've got to do a lot of communicating with shit that you did not decide and probably don't agree with, but you have to depend in any way.
00:48:07
Speaker
I plead the fifth on whether I agree with any of the changes we made at Ginkly. i Well, I have to think you were not in favor of terminating all of our contracts. No. I got to think that wasn't your idea. Nope. It was nobody's idea, actually, other than the ah top management folks. um Yeah. i Because I mean.
00:48:31
Speaker
Well, we were all there because we believe in the work. You know, this was not a I mean, I could make more money writing shit if I wanted to go back to my Texas yeah clients and write about guns and like make up for 10 year old girls. I could do it because it pays more than this. But yeah I got mirrors in my house. I got to look at myself after I, yeah you know, I can't ah I can't just be doing any old thing. But um that's that's the thing is that I can't imagine they ever would have sold it if they knew that this was going to happen. ah i would I would think not. you know um yeah I don't want to start naming names, but the people that that I know from there, like Tara wouldn't do this to us. I will stand by that. There's no way that if she knew we were all just going to suddenly get dropped, because the thing is,
00:49:25
Speaker
I took a break from Kinkly when Women's Health Interactive opened up because I was pretty excited to be on the you know the ground floor of a startup. and I'm still doing some stuff here and there for them, but it's not the steady gig that it once was. and so I was very happy to be able to be back at Kinkly writing regular again and with this buyout. like They made it seem like a very exciting thing.
00:49:50
Speaker
They did. I was excited for us. and you know Me too. then ah yeah i I would like to know if it's more than it seems like, because it seems like it didn't make enough money out of the gate and they just decided to take a loss on it. and Ouch.
00:50:13
Speaker
you know Like, well, why can't we just be the prestige project on a site that otherwise makes money from porn, you know? I mean, like the Disney model. I know. Well, you probably know more than I do. And I guess being the case, I think, because you got a little more than two weeks, right? Because we were just like off you go then. But yeah, you're like closing up shop and moving stuff and everything. I think only because I have to still edit everything.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think only because my job was still useful, so I get more than two weeks. And but I think yeah it speaks to a lot of things, um one of which being that it's rough out there for artists. It's rough doing work that an AI can sort of approximate because that's good enough for some people.
00:51:04
Speaker
yeah um Well, you know i'm ah I'm a writer. like i'm i've written and I'm a you know novelist to use a term that some people find douchey. But the thing is, it's almost time for the NaNoWriMo, the national novel writer month, which is a very, very big deal in the writing community. And this year, they came out and said, well, they took money from ah an AI, at least one company that focuses on generative AI.
00:51:31
Speaker
And so now the official NaNoWriMo policy is that they do not have a policy on AI, which means if you want to use why generative AI to write your NaNo novel, they don't have a position on that. So basically it is now a writing challenge where writing is no longer required. Oh, it's the worst. It is the worst. And the thing is, this year I was actually going to make a big to-do about NaNo this year because, just to tell you how old I am,
00:52:02
Speaker
This is the 20th anniversary of my first nano and my first nano. Yeah. and And my first nano was my first published novel. A stabbing. No way. Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. Right. Well, I mean, it would be because I actually was going to, I give them $10 every year because I'm a poor person, but I do think it's important to donate. And I was actually prepared to like drop some money on them this year, but I, uh,
00:52:30
Speaker
I can't. I can't. No, you know, and and I mean, I still believe in the mission. I believe in the young writers program. But yeah, apparently they don't believe in their mission anymore. So why why should I fund? I mean, I want to do like an alt man. Oh, right. Mo like a right for real. Yes. Seriously, I thought blows my mind. Yeah, it's it's the one.
00:52:56
Speaker
Especially for i mean not that we should be having a i write non-fiction either like no just stop but like especially fiction i i cannot. Like how do you even but i don't even know what to say about it well how can you even use a i to like.
00:53:17
Speaker
ah the Well, it's it's it's ah approximating fiction. it's not real right yes but when we When we tell stories, we tell stories because we think that they need telling, whether it's because they're funny or that like ah an AI can't be funny. It's a joke, but it doesn't wait. It doesn't understand humor, just like it doesn't understand, you know, ah grieving a loss or you know yeah having a pet and and feeling that you know feeling anything really because yeah AI, it does it doesn't have those yet.
00:53:50
Speaker
you know you to to suggest that that's I mean, that's that's a parlor trick, getting a computer to do what a person does. I mean, that's like, you know, when they train monkeys to ride tricycles and smoke cigars and shit like that. Yes, it's a trick. It's not, you know, a new era in the development of of monkeys or or literature. It's just not. And I don't know, like,
00:54:18
Speaker
I don't know where it's going to go. You know, the the frightening part really is that when you have AI combined with a world where people sort of have their own news channel because they believe completely different things about what's happening in the world, that becomes really frightening, especially when the most frightened people are the most violent people. Yes. You know. Yep. Because like. Yep.
00:54:46
Speaker
I mean, I live in ah in a constant vague fear that someday there will be zombies and we'll have to do something about it, but there are people that look forward to that scenario with far too much glee and excitement. and That is true. you know Because like I grew up it with conservative, ah well, quote unquote, values.
00:55:07
Speaker
um But conservative, you know, anger and hate and bigotry and this entitlement of like, well, I'm white and I have a job. Why don't I have everything I want? Like, well, because life sucks sometimes. But, you know, that whole thing. So I know militia people. When I wrote my zombie book, The Finster Effect, I talked to three different militia people. Oh my God, we need to talk. Well, one of. Yeah.
00:55:33
Speaker
One of the guys was really cool about just like, here's what happens when you press this thing behind my staircase and the staircase opens and it's full of stuff that most civilians shouldn't have in their home. will We'll, we'll leave it there. But, yeah you know, and it's like, okay, this guy seems fine, but there are people that are angry and frightened and really misinformed that also have access to these sorts of things.
00:56:01
Speaker
Uh-huh. But when you combine that with like, yeah, I'm the former president of the United States and I'm telling you that those people in that neighborhood are killing pets and eating them. Oh my God. And then people just believe it. And I mean, you could go on Twitter today, weeks after that shit has been thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly debunked and people still not only think not only like believe it, but think you're an idiot for not believing it.
00:56:30
Speaker
Oh, you believe the people that live there? Well, that's pretty freaking stupid. Like, no, dude, it's not. Yeah. So. AI being legitimized by anyone, I think get generative AI being legitimized does everybody grieve as harm. Yep. You know, you can go on Facebook right now and see people sharing AI visual artwork as if it's oh my god no yeah a photograph. And it's so obvious and people.
00:56:59
Speaker
you know, don't have the discernment to just not. Yeah. So so, yeah, I'm I'm pretty nervous about the whole thing and it's it's making me feel old because these new fangled computer nonsense is are just, you know, I know I've always considered myself fairly tucky. But this kind of stuff just It freaks me out. um I mean, and not just because I believe that AI is going to terminator us at some point. um I absolutely believe in the robot uprising. um But like the fact that you can so easily generate a
00:57:46
Speaker
an article that looks enough like a real thing and reads enough like a real thing that it can be shared by a bunch of people who don't understand how to fact check or who don't understand how to, I don't know, read.
00:58:09
Speaker
read content. um you know And that's not to say that people who are sharing this are stupid because they're not. That's the scary part about it. I actually just read a whole book about how like the actual like scientific mechanics of how misinformation spreads. And I feel like especially on the you know liberal versus conservative i like spectrum liberals are always like, oh, well, these people who are sharing all of this are just so stupid. And the fact is that they are not. we're We've just gotten used to hitting a share button, reading a headline, not really digging into it, not really caring, not really understanding what is a reputable news source and what isn't. Well, and it takes a long time. I mean, if you are a busy person with a job and kids and shit, You don't have an hour every single day to sit down and look through the news and examine what site it's coming from and what the bias is. i mean its It's too much. and It is. and Really, i mean that's just another way that Nixon fucked us because it used to be ah illegal to put commercials in your news. so There was no reason to attract viewers and it it just fucked us.
00:59:30
Speaker
Yup, it absolutely did. Advertising in media, in news media, is why we are where we are. A hundred percent. well and i i'm you know like like i was fan i was ah I was a journalism major and yeah one of the things that we learned as an absolute journalistic standard is that any information that you publish as news on a news broadcaster, in a newspaper,
00:59:56
Speaker
has to be verified by two sources. And if it's explosive news, three sources, three separate sources who do not know each other and are not connected to each other.
01:00:08
Speaker
And now you can turn on CNN and they're saying, hey, so-and-so tweeted this. Isn't that crazy? Like, yeah I don't care that Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert are cat fighting on Twitter. that But the thing is, it kind of is news because yes they're going to leave those cat fights and then go vote on a law that's going to impact actual people's lives. So it pisses me off that it's newsworthy in the first place.
01:00:36
Speaker
Yes. But we have, I mean, if a politician says it on a social media site, it is political discourse. Right. Exactly. And that is wild to me. Well, because they can just say whatever they want to say, and there's no accountability for that at all. Well, and the news has stopped calling out lies at best. Yes. They'll say, well, there seems to be a difference opinion on who won the last election. Well, no, god damn it, there wasn't.
01:01:01
Speaker
You know, or oh, this controversial statement. No, it's not a controversial statement. It's a it's a lie. Yeah. When you call it a controversial statement, you're saying that there's room to debate it. And if you're talking about numbers that have been added together to form a different number. Well, that's not a controversial statement. That's a statement about how many of something there were. So yeah it just. It's infuriating and I don't.
01:01:30
Speaker
I don't know like what our recourse is. As individuals, you know we can try to do better, but everybody going off and doing their own thing is why we have a bunch of news channels that don't agree with each other in the first place. Yep. so yeah it It is pretty frustrating. Now, getting back to work-related things, though, what is up next for you?
01:01:53
Speaker
Um, well, I am on that hustle again for freelance work. Um, I am actually going to be doing some, uh, writing for a local sex shop, which I'm very excited for. Oh, awesome. Um, like a three person operation currently, um, that has been wanting to have a blog for a really long time. So I'm very excited about that. Um, which like, I just, I love this place, Earth and Salt in Burlington, Vermont, if you're ever over there.
01:02:22
Speaker
adorable, lovely little sex shop. um And yeah, so I'm going to be doing some of that. um I had a couple of clients before I started editing it kinkly that I'm getting back with um in the sexual health space. um But I'm also just like really open to whatever comes my way. um I've been like one of those lucky people in freelancing.
01:02:48
Speaker
um where when something like this happens very shortly after something is dropped in my lap. um So I'm putting stuff out there and I'm waiting to see what drops in my lap. We'll see. Okay. Well, are you on ah like LinkedIn or? I am on LinkedIn. Robin Zabagulski with my very hard to spell last name. We'll put a link in the description so if anybody wants to reach out, they can they can find you.
01:03:15
Speaker
Because I mean, who isn't looking for an editor right now? My goodness. Yeah, well, more places should be looking for editors, unfortunately. Right. but yeah So wait, so now your email signature also has the phrase movement instructor.
01:03:32
Speaker
So like, is is that an exercise thing? Because I'm going to warn you, I'm a lifelong fat person, and I do not like negative exercise talk. So you know how there's that lady on TV that like screams at people while they exercise? Like, that yes, does some has an impact. I don't understand that fully. But like, so what what is your your deal with this?
01:03:54
Speaker
Um, so I am actually a fat to skinny to fat person, um, only skinny ever because of severe eating disorders, um, that I ended up getting treatment for and.
01:04:08
Speaker
surprise surprise when I started eating again I got fat because you know I'm a fat person like that's my genetics um so I have a lot of complicated uh history with food with exercise um with all of it. um And when I was in treatment for eating disorders, I started doing yoga therapy um and like you know helping me like really land in my body, um helping me like develop a new relationship with movement. um And I
01:04:48
Speaker
just started moving my body again in a way that like felt good. um Exercise was also a really huge part of my eating disorders though because I was hey and was an amateur MMA fighter um and way to choose a sport that ah requires weight cutting.
01:05:07
Speaker
um as a person with eating disorders. so um So I also had to pick apart a lot of, um you know, I love martial arts. Like I truly love martial arts, but like how do I do that without it being tied to this like weight-based thing and competition and just like literally destroying my body. Like I ended up having to like, I tore a lot of muscles and that's why I ended up stopping. um Because it turns out when you don't eat and then you do a lot of martial arts, you tear muscles. That makes sense. So that makes sense. Well, yes. Does competition have to be a part of that? It does not, um which is the interesting part. You know, it's it's so funny to me how often it's funny to me now, certainly not in the time, but how often my brain co-ops things that I really like.
01:06:02
Speaker
and says, Oh, you really like this thing? Okay, this is exactly how you have to do it. And it's not exactly in a way that is beneficial to you. um And I had to do a lot of deprogramming around that. um I had to do a lot of deprogramming around like you have to work out hard all the time. um You have to train hard all the time. um You have to train for competition. If you're not training for competition, then what are you even training for? um you know And I really had to just like step back and
01:06:34
Speaker
and And figure out what martial arts particularly meant for me. Yoga, I didn't have such a problematic relationship with. um It was always kind of like my gentle thing. um And I did a yoga teacher training. um I do teach yoga. So that wasn't as much um of a problem. um But getting back into particularly Muay Thai and british Brazilian jiu-jitsu continually was this kind of like I would go back to classes and then I would get really fucked up in my brain um and I would have to stop again and I would go back and I just went back and forth for years.
01:07:11
Speaker
um And really what it took for me was having to go back for just the pure joy of martial arts, how I felt in my body, how I felt when I nailed a technique, um and how I felt learning it. You know, because I had never really focused on how I felt while I was learning the techniques, um because I was just learning it so that I could do competition so that I could take a fight. um And coming back with this like total beginner mindset um and with like no goals attached to it. um And for me, the only way I ended up doing that was I went back postpartum after I had my kid um because I was so sick of being at my house and so sick of having
01:08:05
Speaker
somebody attached to my body at all times because my kid had colic um and only wanted to sleep when he was being held. And I exclusively breastfed um back when I had breasts, which I don't now because I finally had top surgery. But I was just so sick of having my body be needed by other people so constantly um that I just went back to jujitsu one day and it was this thing that it was just for me and I was doing it just for my own joy um and that
01:08:43
Speaker
like really launched me back into being able to do it in a healthy way. um And the thing that I love so much about both teaching yoga and now I teach jiu-jitsu as well um is being the fat person at the front of the class, you know, and not as like a power hierarchy thing or whatever, but like showing people that like, yeah, I'm the teacher and I'm a fat person. yep um And deal with it, you know, like I've definitely like, it hasn't happened in jujitsu, thank God. But definitely at the yoga studio that I've worked at, I've had people come in and be like, you're teaching this class? And I'm like, yeah, I am.
01:09:28
Speaker
and just let them sit with that uncomfortable silence of their own fatphobia, which I just relish. I mean, you know we're on the same internet, so we know that there are plenty of people who will... I mean, people will say the most ridiculous things if I say, well, you know what? I've actually had apnea my whole life, but it wasn't treated until I was in my 30s.
01:09:49
Speaker
My weight was pretty much a done deal. and And like a complete stranger never laid eyes on me. All they saw was my face and that comment and said, you're just making excuses for yourself. Yes. Like, what does that even mean? Who yeah thinks they deserve an excuse or any sort of justification for what size my body is? Like as a total stranger? What the fuck do you even think you are?
01:10:14
Speaker
you know My favorite thing is when people come onto my Instagram, which has a lot of like a lot of content about me exercising and teaching yoga and like teaching jujitsu. And people like come onto my photos and like leave comments like, just get your lazy ass off the couch and go to the gym. I'm like, this is literally a picture of me teaching martial arts.
01:10:37
Speaker
ah Like, I don't and don understand what you want from me. um You know, and like the, just the misconceptions of like weight in general. um Like no, no amount of exercise is gonna make me skinny again. What made me skinny? Not eating. Like, that's it. yeah Yeah, and I'm never willing to do that again because I ruined my body. Like, yeah, it's just insane to me.
01:11:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, best best ah course of action is typically to not advise anyone else on their body unless they've asked for input. But let me ask you this. Now, I don't know really anything about martial arts that I haven't seen on TV or in a movie. um But it seems like some martial arts also have like a spiritual component and there's philosophy that goes along with that. Is that true of of what you do?
01:11:36
Speaker
Not particularly. um And I would say Muay Thai has some of that, um but not as it's really practiced in the United States, which is true of like a lot of activities that we have stolen from other places um is that we have just like stripped them down and made them about movement. um Yoga is the big one for me that i like you know I had to really learn about it being a spiritual practice um because it was only ever taught to me as movement. um But particularly Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, that's just not a ton of like the background so of it. The interesting thing is that both of them came out of like
01:12:28
Speaker
traditions with more of a spiritual background um that are still practiced, um but it's just not really a part of the philosophy in the gyms that I have trained at um and not necessarily part of the like lineages that they come from now.
01:12:50
Speaker
um I would say that like on a personal level, um martial arts is very spiritual for me. um Yoga is very spiritual for me. Movement in my body is very spiritual for me, um especially now that I am out um as non-binary since I've had top surgery, since I like finally feel like my body is like my own and right for me. Um, these practices, like any movement practice has become just like a spiritual experience. Cause it's like, Oh my God, I'm doing this in like my body after a lifetime of like doing these things in a body that just was not what I, what I wanted was not me. I see. Okay.
01:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, i was I was always curious about like the differences in that. Because like I said, movies and TV is where I know these things from. So yeah you know if if it's not ah the Kung Fu Panda or um yeah David Carradine was my other. yeah yeah But but like let's suppose I do get my information from those sources. Are there any that you would consider like an accurate, viable place to to get information on those disciplines?
01:14:08
Speaker
I mean, i I'm not huge on martial arts movies, um which is not a lot of people really love martial arts movies. um I don't know that there are any like really like very accurate portrayals in any of those movies. um But if we're talking about like the actual techniques, Van Damme is actually one of the people who has like actual good technique doing martial arts in movies. um And I mean, of course, like Bruce Lee and everything like that. um But as to like the background of any of them, I don't think that there are probably any movies out there that are accurately depicting, um you know, the lineages of these martial arts or the spiritual side of these martial arts. Yeah. Okay.
01:15:03
Speaker
All right. yeah I want to switch gears a little bit because yeah we do sometimes ask our guests to talk about a time when they were in legitimate fear of their life. And when when you and I discussed it before the show, ah you had indicated that this involved ah being suicidal, um which is relatable for me, certainly. I've i've had, ah I mean, my most recent one was in 2022. And then before that, I had a ah bit of a meltdown in 2016 that became problematic. um So yeah, what what was your experience with this?
01:15:40
Speaker
um so like i had said i have i've dealt with suicidal ideation since I was really, really young. um And I didn't have a name for it for a very long time, um but I know now that this it's it's intrusive thoughts. So I would you know just like get these thoughts of like, you should kill yourself. um you know And I would like make plans. like I researched like
01:16:11
Speaker
how to kill yourself. um you know And I didn't really know where any of that came came from. um They would just be like thoughts that popped into my head. um And as a young person dealing with depression, um you know I There's so much that I understand more about my brain now that I understand more about neurodiverse divergence. Um, I have always just like felt everything really, really big. Um, yeah and like, like intolerable big and like in my body big, you know, like I would get these sensations of like,
01:16:52
Speaker
buzzing in my body or like itchy, you know, just like things that I couldn't, I didn't know what i was going on. um But they were like physical sensations of yeah in my body. um And I didn't, I didn't know what to do about any of that. um So I just thought like, Oh, well, I just I feel things too much. I feel things too big. Like there's something like wrong with me.
01:17:21
Speaker
um And I think now in hindsight, um like being trans was at least a part of that. right you know like i have One of my biggest core beliefs that I've like struggled to undo is that like there's something fundamentally wrong or broken about me.
01:17:39
Speaker
um And no, there's not something fundamentally wrong or broken about me. And I spent 35 of my 37 years on this planet trying really hard to be a girl and a woman and I wasn't. um And I was feeling that dissonance without knowing that I was feeling that dissonance for years. um And you know, I i made one semi-serious suicide attempt when I was 13, didn't really try again actively, um but just always kind of felt like I would rather be dead. um You know, it wasn't always an active, like I want to kill myself right now, um but it was just like this background buzz of like, I would really rather just not be alive anymore. Is that, I just want to clarify,
01:18:38
Speaker
um the The feeling that goes with that, is that because nothing matters and it all seems hopeless? Is it because you personally didn't, like I grew up thinking that I would never get married, I would never have children, I would never own a home. And honestly, I mean, I'm i'm married, but most of that is exactly what happened. I never thought I would have a career or do like normal things that normal people did. Is that is that where you're coming from? I mean, I think,
01:19:06
Speaker
a little bit because I just like knew that that I wasn't like other people. um You know, like I had that feeling of like wrongness, brokenness, all of that also came with like, I'm just really different from people. I think really different things. um You know, I had the experience pretty young of like saying a thing that was in my head to somebody and having them be like, oh my God.
01:19:32
Speaker
Um, because my thoughts get really dark and really scary and they didn't know what to do with that. Um, and I learned pretty young that when you say that shit out loud, people think that you're really weird. Um, you know, so I just stopped saying a lot of that stuff. Um, and it just like, it grows and it festers in you when you don't say it out loud. Um, and when you don't have somebody like reflect back to you, like that's, that's not really like.
01:20:00
Speaker
Accurate it's like not like factually accurate like maybe that's not actually what you're feeling right now and you're trying to like cover You know your brain is doing gymnastics to like make it something. It's not um You know, so I just didn't have a lot of feedback on my brain for a long time um and I mean it changed a lot for me. Sometimes it was that nothing mattered um Everything was helpless and hopeless um but sometimes it was I am so angry or so sad or so some kind of feeling that I think is negative and it is so in incredibly overwhelming that I would honestly rather die than continue to exist. Um, you know, so I kind of went all over the spectrum of like sometimes being completely dissociated and wanting to kill myself.
01:20:53
Speaker
and then sometimes being so intensely feeling that I thought that dying was gonna be the only way to get out of that. um And I just like, I don't know, I've always been a very, I never learned the term masking until I got diagnosed with ADHD. And I have my entire life been a very highly masking person. yep um I got a lot of feedback when I was young that I was weird,
01:21:22
Speaker
that things I said were inappropriate, that I talked too much, um that I was just generally like too much and people could not deal with me. um And I learned to mask really, really well. um So I would be like at work doing my daily stuff and my brain would be like, maybe you could kill yourself. Maybe you should kill yourself. Do you think you should kill yourself? And I would just be sitting there like,
01:21:52
Speaker
I don't know. I'm i'm trying to work. um you know um and and That's still an experience that I have sometimes. um and It's not even necessarily when I am like in distress or anything. um I just have a brain that likes to say really weird shit sometimes. That is so relatable. and I think that it's something that neurotypical people I don't know that that they would believe it if you told them you know because people don't I mean because it's true like I definitely go through that these feelings of like like if I did not have a husband I would not be here because um you know but that that's a whole ah other thing but the idea that
01:22:35
Speaker
the casualness with which most people say like, you know what, I think I'm going to get a sandwich later. And, yeah you know, that that's the casualness with which you're like, you know, it really wouldn't matter if I just walked out in front of that truck right there. You know, like, yeah, I had to stop. I had these friends that lived out of town and they used to come and pick me up a lot and we'd go out there and and part of the trip would be the expressway.
01:23:00
Speaker
And I had just a fixation of just opening the car door and tumbling out onto the expressway constantly, like every time I was in the car and yeah it like, I can't explain it. You know, like the the same reason I would not go up on ah the top of a tall building. You know, yes why would I do that? Because like, because first of all,
01:23:23
Speaker
why am i even up here if i'm not gonna jump what what else would be the point yes i' a ah but you know like i don't know but cuz and that's something like hey neurotypicals as you go through life and you feel like you wanna be rude to someone who's walking slow in front of you or like whatever.
01:23:42
Speaker
A whole bunch of people out there have to talk themselves out of taking their own life a couple of times a week. Maybe keep that in mind when you're on the internet telling strangers that you know whatever, whatever.
01:23:56
Speaker
like Yeah. Well, and as I've been like properly medicated and in therapy and like doing all the things that I'm supposed to do to like keep my brain in a better healthy place. And like I I think I assumed at some point that that would like go away. Well, it wasn't like deuces, I think. Yeah. when When you're because some of that, I mean, certainly some suicide
01:24:27
Speaker
suicidal thoughts are situational. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yes. But I also still just get the random shit, yeah um which I did not expect. I'm in a fairly good place in my life. I'm in a fairly good place in my brain. I'm fairly comfortable in my life. And sometimes while I'm just like watching TV at night, my brain is like, There are knives in the kitchen. Do you know what you could do with those? I'm like, what? Why? And I don't know. The answer is I don't know. And like I have the coping skills now to be like, that's very nice, Breen. I'm going to just stay right here and watch some TV. um And it's not that big a deal anymore. It's not so distressing to me anymore to have those thoughts. But I think that it's something that we don't talk about enough, that like even in a
01:25:21
Speaker
pretty solid mental health state at this moment in my life, I still consistently deal with intrusive thoughts of suicide and self-harm that I just have to be like, no, thank you. I'm not going to do that. So I guess what I want to say to listeners about that is that if you're listening to this and you're nodding along and saying, holy shit, I had no idea other people feel this this way.
01:25:51
Speaker
Talk to someone in your life about it. Yes. You know, I'm right here. Hit me up online. Talk to me about it like this. Yes. Because that is it's so isolating. I. It is. I used to write for a website called The Roots of Loneliness. And it was about all sorts of ways in which people end up lonely. And one of them, done well, several of them actually have to do with things like mental illness and addiction and like suicidal thoughts.
01:26:18
Speaker
and they're things that people are ashamed of. And that's why they don't want to talk about them. There is a lot of shame that goes with suicidal thoughts, especially like my experience when I first started talking about suicide was shut your mouth. You just want attention. Nobody wants to hear that. And so, you know, well, first of all, if you've got like a tween or a teenager and they're saying something because they want attention,
01:26:46
Speaker
they should have a attention. They need attention. you know They like actually need attention. and But even beyond that, like to tell someone, like oh, you're faking your feelings so that someone will be nice to you is so many different kinds of fucked up. I don't even know where to start. But the thing is, like it also like it seems like the more you're struggling, the less likely you are to reach out. like Not just you and I, but like the general you.
01:27:15
Speaker
um Which again, if you are a friend to someone that you think might be struggling in that way, it is a difficult topic to bring up. I mean, especially if, if you're, the thing is nothing bad is going to come from saying, you seem like you're having a tough time. How's everything going? You know, just yeah opening up the conversation, even if, if the response is no, man, I'm fine and I don't want to talk about it. And why don't you leave?
01:27:44
Speaker
Even that is better than thinking no one cares. Right, because the next time you do feel like talking to somebody, you will hopefully remember that that person asked. Yeah, you know what? I'm going to bring up something sad, because here's the thing. Robin Williams spent his life making people happy. So many people's like, not just your evening while you watch a movie, but when you watch something like good morning Vietnam or dead poets is mighty or the Fisher King, you know, that stays with you. It, it yes like goes into your brain and changes who you are. That person meant so much to so many people. And yet he was sad and isolated for just one afternoon. And that was all it took. Like he had, you know, there was stuff going on, but like,
01:28:39
Speaker
He had a loving family. He had a great career. He was known as being a good guy. He overcame, you know, cocaine, which is yeah enormous, you know, yeah like all of those things. But this one, one day he didn't have the support that he needed and it made all the difference, you know, which means it's like the the thing that they say, you know, when people go back in time,
01:29:07
Speaker
they're afraid of doing one small thing because one small thing can change everything. Well, guess what? You don't have to go back in time for one small thing to change everything. You can do it right goddamn now. So, yeah. so yeah but So now that you know that anyone in your life could be contemplating suicide, A, be nice and B, pay attention. yeah Because we're not responsible for each other, but we are responsible to each other.
01:29:37
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Yes. And that's something that I like for the other side, like for the caretaking side of it is like, I am always very clear with the people who love me that like, if I am going to take my life or take a drink or do some drugs again, which are like,
01:29:56
Speaker
hopefully never on the table again. But like that is me. like those those are Those are things that I'm just i'm going to do. like You can't prevent me from doing that. What you can do is know if that is coming um, by continuing to check in with me. Um, especially if you haven't heard from me in a while, cause I've gotten fairly good at reaching out. Um, but yeah, I mean, you can, you can check in on the people who love you. It may not prevent anything, but it could, and you never know if it could. Um, you know, there was something else I actually wanted to to touch on because we talked a lot about like reaching out to people.
01:30:41
Speaker
and you know being open communicators. I'll tell you that like ah personally, I'm a fairly impatient person and I have you real low tolerance for things like lies and bullshit and cowardice and stuff. ha um With that in mind, I sometimes struggle with kindness.
01:30:59
Speaker
Because first of all, I'm witty as hell. So sarcasm just comes flying out of my mouth before I can stop it, which is not ideal. You know, I've had plenty of time to work on this and I have not mastered it. But like, what what is your philosophy or or ah like what what what kind of tips can you share for being kind when you don't friggin feel like it? I mean, this is still my quest. um I think It helps me a lot to understand that, especially for AFAB folks, people assigned female at birth, um an ADHD symptom is impulsive rage. um You know, they talk a lot about impulse control in ADHD with like shopping or dangerous driving um or
01:31:48
Speaker
you know spending too much money, whatever. um But like that lack of emotional regulation is also an impulsivity issue. um you know So I spent years and years and years and years thinking that my emotional react reactivity was about me being a bad person.
01:32:07
Speaker
i Like I'm just such an angry person. I just lash out so quickly and that makes me a really horrible person. um And to find out that like that is literally a symptom of ADHD, which is not an excuse.
01:32:21
Speaker
to lash out at people. like I have to actively work on my emotional regulation. If you don't know what it is, you cannot yeah have a plan of a test. Yes, exactly. i mean i did i Oh my God, the years and years and years that therapists told me, take a deep breath and count to 10. And I'm like, I fucking can't. I can't. well I don't know why I can't do it.
01:32:43
Speaker
And it's not going to fix a chemical imbalance in your brain. you know Exactly. It's not going to fix the fact that I don't have enough dopamine ever. But like, so I think that for me, like the kindness thing is something that I work on a lot. Parenting has like completely transformed my practice of emotional regulation and practicing kindness um because when you're face-to-face with a kiddo, um losing their shit because they literally don't have these skills at all, like you just you just got to nut up and like have those skills yourself. um And
01:33:29
Speaker
I think that parenting has, it made me do more work than I have ever voluntarily done on my own. Well, um when you're a parent, it means that you live with someone like in your home who is 100% looking at you to lead an example.
01:33:51
Speaker
Yes. I could not take the pressure. I didn't understand how much pressure it would be. um you know And my my kiddo has started coming home from preschool with calm down strategies and like coping skills. And I'm like, shit that gave you that shit in preschool. I don't have that shit. you know And so like i I started doing a lot of that like really deep work on emotional regulation and like regulating my nervous system and all of that. And it's ongoing work. like I am still a reactive person with a lot of people in my life. um And for me, the biggest thing that I
01:34:39
Speaker
both do and model for my kiddo is repair. Um, because that is something like I, I really wanted at some point to be quote unquote healed enough to like not snap at people and to like not rat, like lash out. I thought that I was going to become like this Zen master if I could get like healed enough. right Um, and my therapist is like, no, that's not the point. Um, the point is getting back to baseline sooner, um, and owning what you did. Um, you know, so like it is.
01:35:13
Speaker
a like grooved practice in our house. I you know stressed out a snap at the kiddo and we have, I don't know how, but we've raised him well enough that he says, that is not nice. You cannot talk to me that way. um And I say to him,
01:35:34
Speaker
holy As the parents, as the adults in the situation, I say to him, you are right. That was a mean voice and I did not need to use a mean voice. I'm sorry for that. I'm going to go take a couple of deep breaths and try not to use a mean voice anymore.
01:35:50
Speaker
And he does the same thing when he yells at us. He says, I'm sorry, I didn't know what to do. And I yelled. And like, honestly, if that's all I can do as a parent, like. Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. Because I mean, that's definitely not something I had. Oh, hello. Hello. I didn't learn how to be in a respectful relationship with another person until I was in my 30s.
01:36:15
Speaker
I thought relationships were about one up my ship and who was right, who was wrong, and keeping tabs of shit. I was keeping that score book. Well, because that's what was my fault for me. I knew that some of the things that went on where I lived were not right, and not what I wanted for myself, but I wasn't aware of like what the alternatives were, how you were there, you know, and how you how you do differently, you know, and like, I think that that is a lot of my, just like my ongoing practice in everything, my my spiritual practice, my self inquiry, like,
01:36:55
Speaker
All of the work that I do in parenting, the work that I do in relationships, it's all about that. like I'm trying my best to not lash out. And if it happens, I own it and I make repair um as much as I possibly can.
01:37:13
Speaker
um and like the ability to not shame spiral when that happens um and to you know not think that I'm just like this horrible, angry, fucked up person. No, I'm a human. I'm a human being.
01:37:31
Speaker
um And I'm doing the best I can just like everybody else is doing the best they can um and Just being able to approach things with with that perspective as much as I can It's certainly not all the time, especially when I am tired or hungry um Yeah, but yeah how does that go like if you If you ah hate everyone, you should eat something. And if you think everyone hates you, you should take the nap. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I am. Oh my gosh. i
01:38:05
Speaker
and like I will say that one of the the beautiful and shocking things about parenting is seeing a not just like a tiny like physical version of you, but like a tiny emotional version of you um doing like all of the things that you do. um And being like, oh man, that is...
01:38:31
Speaker
That is, yep, that's me. That that is me. And my my kiddo the other day came home and wanted to play video games. He loves to play video games. He's autistic in ADHD. And we were like, I think you should probably have a snack. And he's like, no, I'm good. I'm good. Five minutes later, in a puddle,
01:38:55
Speaker
on the floor screaming and crying, I'm just so hungry. And I'm like, ah I get it, dude. I also sometimes cry and yell when I'm hungry. um Yeah. Yeah. So we're we're big on snacks in this house, too.
01:39:14
Speaker
OK, so I need to know before we actually were like kind of winding down to the last couple of cues here. But do you have a favorite sex toy company? You know, I have such like a smattering of different toys um that I was like, can I choose like one that is my favorite like brand? And I have so many different brands. um And I think it's like, I'm so basic right now. I think it's Satisfire. My Satisfire Rabbit Vibrator is probably my favorite toy ever. okay Just basics.
01:39:54
Speaker
yeah what i i i would say yeah i have ah the the satisfy or the the pro too. You know that's one of those clitsucking dailies and that and that has been my go to toys since i got it and right you know i mean they they are they are basics they are like.
01:40:13
Speaker
bottom of the line, kind of but like they work. it It should be in at least as many bedrooms as a Hitachi, for sure. Oh, hell yeah. I also don't understand how anybody uses one of those. It's just too much. It's too much. It's a lot, but like that's the thing is like there are people that use those like outside their pants and it's like, i yes I could see that because- I was like, yeah, I could, maybe that's the secret because- It's too much. Yeah. But yeah, I love satisfier toys. I mean, they're cheap. They're basic. Yes, it's going to break given enough use, but like it's good. Well, and that's the thing. If you're paying like, you know, 60 bucks for something and it lasts two years, that's a pretty good value. Yeah, exactly. Yes. And I also, I mean, hashtag freelance life. I can't afford.
01:41:07
Speaker
a lot of the very ah higher-end toys. I have them because people keep sending them to me. that I was going to say, I did just i just get accepted for um doing reviews for Bed Bible. Oh, nice. will I will be receiving a lot more sex toys quite soon. Who is your contact over there? Don't say now, but say later because, yeah, I would love to review for them. Yes. Is there a particular piece of work that you've done that you are the most proud of?
01:41:37
Speaker
Yeah, um so the piece that I did on weight stigma in sexual health care yeah um for kinkly I think is probably my favorite thing that I've ever written. um It was like that perfect, I mean as a person who writes both journalistic stuff and personal essay, like it was that perfect blend of like my own experience helping other people and then interviewing the right people and digging into the research. Like I am such a like medical study nerd. Um, but just being able to write like a big feature on how awfully fucked people get by the medical system, especially in sexual health, um, especially for a fab people. Um,
01:42:34
Speaker
I just love that one. So that's up on kinkly um and it's weight stigma in sexual health care. Nice, nice. Yeah, it's weird because one of my favorite articles for kinkly also is about weight and sex. And it's um just basically like if you're a fat person and you're uncomfortable with your body. Here are some tips that help you have good sex anyway. Just stuff like sit around naked sometimes. Just be naked and hang out with your body. Huge fan of just being naked. Yeah, it's weird. Probably about 15 years ago, which would be about 10 years into my current relationship, my husband sleeps in pajamas, which I don't know how people can do that. He is so into being fully clothed. I put on pants if company's coming over.
01:43:25
Speaker
You know, are you naked right now? ah No, actually, I have a dress on. I have a dress. I do. I do. um I do tend to dress for interviews, even though they're not on camera just because I feel more professional that way. You know, it's like wearing a bra like I kind of need one. But there's if even if there's nobody else here, I feel more professional and and put together with a bra.
01:43:51
Speaker
It's true. you know that That whole thing. um But yeah, like I think those pieces, especially when they have personal um accountings in them, they they seem to resonate a lot with readers because again, it's something that people don't talk about. yeah because I mean, like honestly, just being a fat person on the internet talking about sex toys, I get so much shit from like MAGA people and just, yeah you know,
01:44:21
Speaker
And it's so like, okay, first of all, you're probably masturbating right now, sir. why you're why you're making yeah shit Like you don't fool. Well, the thing is I did a series of videos, um, the summer before last about making DIY flashlights, you know, and and ho he's just out of things you have around the house, like sock, sponges and stuff. And so now I send that video to people as an in insult.
01:44:47
Speaker
Yes. Like, well, you know what? I love it. First of all, this is what a sex writer does. And secondly, please avail yourself. You'll be in a better mood. Yes. Yeah. Because, you know, um I'm not opposed to that kind of pettiness. All right. So before we get to the Mad Lib, do you have any questions for me?
01:45:10
Speaker
What is the favorite thing you have ever done in your life? the favorite thing I've ever done in my life? yeah like Like an accomplishment? No, just your favorite. Like the thing that I enjoyed the most? I guess it's an open-ended question. It certainly is, my goodness. um
01:45:38
Speaker
I think like The things that I like the most are the the projects that I do that like leave an indelible, well, I don't know if it's indelible, I'm alive and stuff, but that like the the things that I'm leaving behind, like my body of work and and yeah things that I've like accomplished that I feel proud of. so like Honestly, with that in mind, I'm really, really proud of this show.
01:46:03
Speaker
um Yeah, there you go. Which is kind of a weird thing because I haven't been doing it for very long. And it it's, ah you know, it's slow going in the beginning. Our audience is still modest. um and And one of the things that happens with my projects is I don't have a lot of money for marketing. um I get kind of strangled on meta platforms now. And, you know, Twitter's a friggin cesspool. So I don't have a lot of reach But when my projects get out there, like nobody read my last two collections, either one of them, and said, this book sucks. Not to me, anyway, and not in any reviews that they left. Nobody said, yeah this book is a piece of shit. Why are you even trying?
01:46:45
Speaker
Yeah. And it's the internet. if somebody If somebody felt that way, they would not keep it to themselves. So I think that, yeah, that, I think that like this show, I think is kind of a culmination of like who I am and what I do and just like a lifetime of being a fucked up nutbag has been, I've been able to like parlay that into something that like, I mean I've already helped people. like There are people that have contacted me and said, I listened to this and I felt so much better about X, or I felt really like somebody understood Y. To me, that's huge. like that's If that is the kind of mark that I leave on the world, like I made something that helped people. I get really down ah about that because I didn't have any kids.
01:47:38
Speaker
Yeah. You know, ah so when I die, people will remember me for like, you know, let let's say a generation and then that's it. So if I haven't left anything that means anything to anybody, then there's just no more me and I'm too vain to accept the fact that I would think out into nothing. You know, I want to be Vincent Price. I want people to still be scared by my shit 100 years later. That's what I want. So hashtag goals. Right. Right.
01:48:08
Speaker
OK, so I hope that answers your question. It does. All right. So it is time for the Mad Libs. You know Mad Libs. You know how this works. I do. OK, all right. So we're going to start with some adjectives. Looks like I need one, two, three, four, five, five adjectives.
01:48:29
Speaker
yeah Sexy, horny, voluptuous.
01:48:39
Speaker
Vapid. a Loud. All right. And I need one, two, three, four plural nouns. Ooh.
01:48:55
Speaker
um
01:48:58
Speaker
Now I'm like, oh my God, what's a noun? Boxes. A noun is a person, place, or thing. We're just going to go with ah things I see in my room. That works. A dresser. Jeans. Clock. Say it up. Lube. OK, these may be plural nouns, so I'm like ah pluralizing them for you. Yes, great.
01:49:24
Speaker
Do you need another one? Is that enough? Yeah, that's all the plural nouns. I need one singular noun. Okay. Vibrator. I was wondering why it was taking you so long to say vibrator. Yeah. All right. I need some adverbs. I need one, two, three adverbs. Oh my God. Now I don't even remember what adverbs are. They're things about verbs. Lolly, lolly, lolly. Get your adverbs here. Adverbs here. Yes. It's like an adjective, but for a verb, so they tend to end in like L Y or H. L Y. Slowly.
01:49:55
Speaker
quickly, madly. All right. And oh, sorry, I need another singular noun. Door. A number. Thirteen. Verb past tense. Went. Part of the body. Penis.
01:50:25
Speaker
Okay, person in room, now that's always the guest. yeah All right, I need another part of the body and another number.
01:50:36
Speaker
37 and toes. All right, and now I need a part of the body plural. Knees. Okay, all right, so this is called Let's Dance.
01:50:53
Speaker
At my sexy sleepover party, my best boxes and I decided to have a dance off. We made my 13-year-old little sister be the judge. We broke into two teams, the dressers and the horny dancers.
01:51:12
Speaker
My team danced slowly, but the other team's voluptuous moves were out of this door. They totally out went us. So when no one was looking, I grabbed my sister by the penis and pulled her aside.
01:51:30
Speaker
ah Robin, I whispered. I promised to do all of your vapid chores for 37 months if you say that my team won. My sister shook her toes. No way, she said quickly. Your team danced worse than a bunch of loved lubes.
01:51:53
Speaker
Fine, I said. I'll just have to tell all my friends that you are madly afraid of clocks that help that help change her vibrator. We won that contest. Knees down. Oh, my God. Wow. See now all the all the manga people are going to freak out now saying I did a mad lib of about a 13 year old girl with a penis.
01:52:17
Speaker
I know yeah those trans folks. Wow. Maybe we get them to boycott. That'd probably be good for some notice. Oh my God. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I wrote a book ah about Don Jr. I mean, excuse me. I wrote ah a satirical book about the son of a president who it is an ass. And, um, when I first was thinking of marketing strategies for the first book, I actually joined truth social and it was the first time I ever was like a fake person on the internet. Cause I'm always me. I'm always, I'm like either wetness fry or Wednesday, Lee Friday, like everywhere.
01:52:52
Speaker
But that time I made a fake account because my plan was to like, ingratiate myself with people and then be like, Oh my God, did you guys see this book? Because I thought, I thought that might work. Oh my God. That's amazing. Well, I couldn't, I couldn't keep it up because first of all, I had to like write with bad grammar and it was like upsetting my hands to do it. And I didn't want to pick up bad habits, but also like it was making me really upset.
01:53:18
Speaker
to be there interacting with those people because they're all so angry and they're so mean and there was so much like just bigotry and misogyny and then I started seeing like death threats and stuff and I was like, no, no, I got to get the fuck out of here.
01:53:35
Speaker
so yeah Yeah, i didn't I did not have the the fortitude for it because i don't I don't really have the ability to see because like even if half of them are trolls, half of them aren't. you know And I don't want to see it. I don't want to know about it. It's just too like upsetting and sad and infuriating for me.
01:53:56
Speaker
So yeah like that's why I don't like I used to watch the late night shows every night. I never missed Colbert. I love ah Seth Meyers, you know, and I i can't anymore because yeah all they're talking about is politics. And it's not like you're going to change my mind. Like I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm suddenly all turned around. Maybe Trump is a great choice. But, you know, yeah, but I just you know, I can't do it. And it occurs to me like ah Because I have family members that are super low information. They just don't pay attention. yeah And they're so much happier. but i like They don't have that constant political anger that I have. But I feel like, ye in some ways, I'm like obligated to have it. Because if you have any sort of privilege at all, it's like, no, I have to use this privilege to help people with less. Yes.
01:54:43
Speaker
But, you know, sometimes you just need a nap instead of that. Yep. So it's valid. Right. Right. So Robin, I am so glad that you could be here. I yeah thank you so much for having me. Like it's weird because we worked for the same place for a long time, but we didn't really know each other that well. And holy shit. Again, freelance life.
01:55:04
Speaker
We vibe like crazy, man. That was amazing. I know. What a great interview. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I had a great time. Awesome. Awesome. So I am going to see everybody next week. And remember to support us on Ko-fi slash sometimes hilarious horror. Thanks, everybody.