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Growing Shiitake Mushrooms on Natural Logs
43 Plays1 day ago
Join Jessica and Ray on this special holiday short topic as they talk about all the steps necessary to grow your own Shiitake mushrooms on natural logs. Shiitake mushroom production on logs is a sustainable and rewarding practice that allows you to cultivate these delicious fungi in your own backyard. By inoculating hardwood logs with shiitake spawn, you create the perfect environment for the mycelium to colonize the wood and eventually produce flavorful mushrooms. This method is not only environmentally friendly but also offers a hands-on approach to growing your own food, connecting you with the natural processes of decomposition and renewal.
Shiitake Mushroom Publications University of Kentucky
Mushroom Resource Page University of Kentucky
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: [email protected]
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Transcript
Holiday Season and Short Topic Podcasts
00:00:17
Plant People
Hello, constant listeners. ah This is not the voice of Alexis that you normally hear leading us into conversation because the holidays are upon us. And if you have listened to us before during the last holiday season, you'll know that this is typically the time of year where we do some kind of some short topic um podcast, a couple of episodes here and there. And that's what we're doing today. And I think next week we're going to do one of those short form podcast topics as well.
00:00:47
Plant People
But that's what we're going to be doing today.
Thanksgiving Preparations: Corn Casseroles
00:00:49
Plant People
As we're recording this, it's not quite yet to Thanksgiving. But as you are listening to this, we will just have been finished up with Thanksgiving.
00:00:59
Plant People
ah But I have to ask you, Jessica. Jessica Besson, who is also a regular host. ah It's just Jessica and I today, the rest of the podcast crew.
00:01:08
Jessica
and
00:01:09
Plant People
ah Yeah, Jessica. The rest of the podcast crew, the normal crew is off doing big things and getting ready for the holidays. ah But Jessica and I both are probably scrambling, preparing for Thanksgiving. Jessica, are you ready?
00:01:24
Jessica
um I hope so. I have another grocery pickup because I am making ah four corn casseroles.
00:01:30
Plant People
Wait a minute. Do you actually, do you go shopping in the store or do you have a delivery service come to you?
00:01:34
Jessica
Well, I know I normally go shopping or my husband was nice enough to go and get like some of the stuff.
00:01:35
Plant People
We need to know these things.
00:01:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:01:43
Jessica
And then we realized, well, I realized I forgot to tell him that I need like all the cheese, all of it, right?
00:01:49
Plant People
Well, there's never enough cheese.
00:01:49
Jessica
Like, yes. And so I'm actually today, first for the ease of things have made like one of those list, like click lists where I can go and drive and pick it up real quick on my way home.
00:01:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:00
Jessica
But yeah, I have four corn casseroles to make. So four different Thanksgiving dinners coming up. um
00:02:07
Plant People
And now corn casserole is not corn pudding, and I think there's a difference, isn't there?
00:02:11
Jessica
There is a difference. I have realized that some people really like their corn pudding, which is more, we were talking about like, not jello-like, but in what would you say? It's like,
00:02:25
Plant People
ah The corn pudding that I've had is more like pudding-like than a casserole, which has more, I don't know what you would call, structure maybe? Sometimes a topping of crumbly somethings.
00:02:31
Jessica
Right.
00:02:33
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:33
Jessica
Yeah. Like stuff on top or a little more fluffier, right? Like ours has like corn muffin, corn muffin mix in it.
00:02:37
Plant People
Lighter and consistency. Yeah. Oh, nice.
00:02:40
Jessica
So yeah, so I'm clearly making that because it's like one I can like do with my eyes closed and make easily with two small children and take it and andd travel, it travels well.
00:02:49
Plant People
Oh, yeah. you Yes.
00:02:53
Jessica
So yeah.
00:02:53
Plant People
So you've made all the considerations what you can do in a fair amount of time with two children and and farm chores and also what travels well.
00:03:02
Jessica
all of that and travel.
00:03:03
Plant People
So you've made all of the considerations. Yeah.
00:03:06
Jessica
ah What about you?
00:03:06
Plant People
I do love a good traveling dish.
Family Gatherings: Chaos in the Kitchen
00:03:08
Plant People
Yeah. Getting ready. We're getting ready. We've got our little punch list. We do sort of a family get together, some family get togethers and Um, yeah, we have kind of our list made and it's kind of like its own whole little mini production, getting ready for all of that.
00:03:24
Plant People
So, um, yeah, it's just one of those things.
00:03:26
Jessica
It is.
00:03:27
Plant People
Yeah. Once we get there, I love the chaos of the kitchen. We were just talking about that today at my office. We did sort of a friends giving. Uh, once again, this is being recorded just before Thanksgiving and we had an, kind of an office function during lunch and.
00:03:35
Jessica
Mmhmm.
00:03:41
Plant People
There was two camps of people at my office. There was one camp that was super nervous with this super chaos going on with all the ovens and just everybody running everywhere is in my office. They were really not, not good with the chaos.
00:03:55
Plant People
And then there was the other camp at the office that was totally good with the chaos. So it wasn't, it was interesting.
00:03:59
Jessica
Did those, was it split between people who have children and people who do not have children?
00:04:04
Plant People
You know, I never thought of it that way, but it kind of was that people that have kids were used to chaos. So we were totally fine with it. I was good with just chaos of people running everywhere.
00:04:11
Jessica
Yeah.
00:04:15
Plant People
Timers going off, maybe a smoke detector here and there. We were fine with all of that.
00:04:18
Jessica
Yeah, it's, it's, it's fun to see like families how, like, I think at Christmas too, especially like as your family changes, right?
00:04:20
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:28
Jessica
Like all the grandkids grow up, right?
00:04:31
Plant People
Mm hmm.
00:04:31
Jessica
And now you're having Christmas and it's, it's not like, it might not be quieter, right? It might still be loud, but it's not chaotic, right?
00:04:37
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:39
Jessica
Cause everyone is like, an adult to to a point, right? But then you start bringing in like those great grandbabies or other small children.
00:04:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:47
Jessica
And then you see it slowly more from like that first one where there might be playing with the paper till like now we have several, um my grandma has several great grandchildren who we come and now it's gone back to that chaos, but it's like a good chaos, right?
00:05:02
Jessica
So to just to see that cycle through of like really calm Christmases to like now back with lots of small children and
00:05:03
Plant People
Oh yeah.
00:05:08
Plant People
yeah Yeah, and you just, and I used to be like, yeah, I like the, kind you know, the calm sort of controlled, but you know, as soon as I had a kid, I'm realizing that that is not, especially when my son was younger, just let it go and embrace the chaos and don't get tore up about anything because it
00:05:11
Jessica
Being very chaotic, and but a good chaotic. Let it go, right?
00:05:28
Plant People
At some point it is what it is and it has a life of its own. So that is the holidays with the Z.
00:05:32
Jessica
so
00:05:34
Plant People
D-A-Z-E, holidays is what we call it because it's a blur and I just encourage everybody to enjoy every minute of it if you can at all.
00:05:37
Jessica
That's right.
00:05:44
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:05:45
Plant People
So good times, good times.
00:05:46
Jessica
Goes by fast, but good stuff.
00:05:48
Plant People
It does go by fast, extremely
Introduction to Shiitake Mushroom Growing
00:05:50
Plant People
fast. But today, a short topic, as I said, a little bit shorter topic than we typically do. And this is one that it was my turn to come up with the short topic ah for the first holiday episode. And what I figured I would talk to you guys a little bit about today is something that I used to do in the past and really enjoy when I lived in the eastern foothills and mountains of ah Kentucky as I had a small shiitake log operation.
00:06:16
Plant People
Shataki is a mushroom literally she means a oak the oak mushroom I guess in. ah originally came from Japan years and years ago back in back in history but the shiitake mushroom and it can be grown many different ways but many years ago at the University of Kentucky we had a specialist that wrote a whole series of publications Dr. Deborah Hill a you know great specialists that worked with a lot of non timber forest products in the eastern part of the state specifically she covered the entire state but she did this whole series
00:06:48
Plant People
of ah publications on ah growing shiitake mushrooms on natural logs and i will kind of differentiate there because you can grow mushrooms such as shiitake and oyster mushrooms and commercial production systems on sawdust substrate sterilized substrate and there's some other production systems but while we were focusing on um
00:06:54
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:07:09
Plant People
And what I focused on when I grew them was ah growing them on natural logs, but that was the system that I was using. And I had access to a lot of ah lot of timber products and I had my own wood lot of about 65 acres.
00:07:22
Jessica
yeah
00:07:24
Plant People
So yeah, I had lots of trees.
00:07:25
Jessica
And that's that's key for this process, because I i offered a shiitake mushroom class that not this past March, but the year before.
00:07:29
Plant People
yeah It is. It is.
00:07:37
Jessica
And while it was super cool and it's an easy process to do, the most stressful thing for me was finding wood, like finding the right types of tree, right?
00:07:41
Plant People
Hmm.
00:07:46
Plant People
Yes.
00:07:48
Jessica
Because it has to be oak. Is there other ones that you can use as well?
00:07:52
Plant People
There are several. There's oak and then there's ash and there's things like hickory and we've learned that you can use sycamore and ah some of the maples are appropriate. um The only thing that you can't use is evergreens. Things like ah cedars, ah any kind of evergreen does not work well because there's sort of the nature of the way that wood grows and the resins that's in there doesn't let the the the mushroom colonize the logs very well.
00:08:21
Plant People
But
Sourcing Logs: Challenges and Strategies
00:08:22
Plant People
yeah, there's several logs that'll work.
00:08:22
Jessica
ah
00:08:23
Plant People
But now, I was doing that when I was an agent in the eastern part of the state that was the most forested county in the state of Kentucky. It's about, I think it's 80 some plus percent forested in the eastern part of the state.
00:08:36
Plant People
But I moved from there to the least, the least forested county in the state.
00:08:38
Jessica
Yeah, what's your county now?
00:08:43
Plant People
So now, Jessica, I'm with you, and I do, occasionally do, these ah mushroom workshops as a county workshop here in bourbon county where i'm currently an agent but it that's the one thing we have to consider first and foremost is getting the the wood and i and i say logs but when jessica and i are talking about logs jessica i don't know about you but when i say logs it's first of all live um live standing you know trees nothing you can't really go out and
00:09:12
Jessica
and
00:09:13
Plant People
you know, cut anything that's dead or damaged because that's already going to be colonized by other natural fungi and that's not going to work.
00:09:20
Jessica
And that's a good point too, like it needs to be harvested at a certain time, right?
00:09:24
Plant People
Yes, yes. So when we say logs, we're talking about, what I don't know how ah long you cut yours. You can cut any length, but really it's about because you're hand handling these things. You don't want them to be too big. So three or four feet in length.
00:09:37
Jessica
um huh
00:09:37
Plant People
And I liked mine about four inches in diameter, kind of through. um I didn't want it much bigger than that, even though I had some five and six inch you know logs. But if you take a five and a half, six inch log that's four foot long and it's wide oak, that's super heavy when you first cut it.
00:09:55
Jessica
ah yeah ah sure
00:09:57
Plant People
And you handle a couple hundred those in a day and I swear, That'll be the only time you ever cut logs that big. So what I used a lot of is when I was doing kind of timber thinning in my own woodlot when I was doing it personally was I even used a lot of limbs from larger trees and I tried to stay, you know, three or four inches, you know, live standing wood.
00:10:17
Plant People
When I'd cut that and or cut smaller trees, I would cut those up and I would get shiitake logs out of those.
00:10:19
Jessica
Yeah, for sure.
00:10:24
Plant People
If it was living, the bark was intact. um ah It made a good shiitake log out of some of the tree species that Jessica and I just mentioned.
00:10:32
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:10:32
Plant People
So that's kind of what you start with.
Drilling and Inoculating Logs
00:10:34
Plant People
But yeah, Jessica, you already you ask about the timing and the timing is really important. You want to cut the logs at a time when the sugar content is the highest in the logs, which is typically after the leaves have fallen off the trees. And I would go out during the summertime, that was my first thing getting involved with shiitakes. And the first thing when I'm talking to new producers that are interested in this, I tell them, if you're not really good at identifying trees by the bark, you go out during the summer, make sure to mark your trees. And if you flag your trees with like a plastic flagging tape,
00:11:09
Plant People
You can even write on their oak maple hickory whatever you cannot more easily identify those with the leaves on.
00:11:14
Jessica
It's a good idea.
00:11:16
Plant People
But the time that you actually yeah and and why people doing that because you know some of the tree species, like a red oak and a white oak I don't think it really matters I had great luck on both, but I would even you know.
00:11:27
Plant People
mark the different types of oak if I knew what it was based on the leaves.
00:11:29
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:11:30
Plant People
But once those are marked, the next thing you're doing is cutting those after the leaves have fallen off in the fall. Now I would harvest trees at two different times here in Kentucky.
00:11:41
Plant People
One was late fall and one was early spring. Both are appropriate, but keep in mind, and Jessica already mentioned it, you want fresh logs. So from the time that I would cut those logs,
00:11:54
Plant People
I would try to drill them no longer than two weeks after they were cut. The reason you want to do that is you want to get your mushroom spawn. And we can talk more about that in just a minute, what we mean by mushroom spawn.
00:12:06
Plant People
You want to get that in the log before natural funguses start to attack the log and colonizing because it's sort of an arms race. Do you want to get your mycelium and mushroom spawn in there before it's naturally calling that?
00:12:16
Jessica
you Yeah, you want to colonize it. Yeah.
00:12:18
Plant People
Yeah. Otherwise you're going to grow some mushrooms that aren't what you seeded in that log. You're going to get some random stuff in there and that's not what you want.
00:12:25
Jessica
Right.
00:12:27
Plant People
That's that's.
00:12:27
Jessica
You're gonna be very disappointed after you do this whole process and wait the waiting time, which we can get more to that as well.
00:12:27
Plant People
not
00:12:30
Plant People
e Yes.
00:12:34
Plant People
Yes.
00:12:34
Jessica
um But yeah, the for me, when I offered that class, like the most stressful part was like just getting the logs. um And luckily I had a local tree company that I worked with before and helped out with some stuff come through that a lady was having a big, beautiful,
00:12:51
Jessica
um oak tree cut down from her yard because she was worried about it being too close to her house. And then the the tree company said, Oh, it looks like a very healthy tree that we're taking down.
00:13:03
Jessica
And so they were willing to give me all of the logs that went with that tree, as long as I would let their wife in the class. And I was like, Done, do you want to be in the class too?
00:13:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:11
Jessica
I'll take it all. You know, so um but I feel like that's, i've for me, that was the most challenging part.
00:13:12
Plant People
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:13:18
Jessica
But like you said, depending on where you are, it might not be challenging.
00:13:19
Plant People
yeah It is, yeah. Yeah, it really does. If you're listening from a part of the country or part of the state here in Kentucky where there's lots of wood lots and you have a much easier time,
00:13:30
Plant People
than if you're in the central or western part of the state where you may be in a big row crop county, for instance. And there's not a lot of stands, extended stands of trees that are appropriate species. So it really all depends. So you, if you're not cutting your own logs, you'll want to look well in advance and talk to someone like I'll approach woodcutters. When I see advertisements for woodcutters, I will call them and say, Hey, listen, here's my specifications for a four inch diameter log. That's four foot long. Can you cut me some of these for X amount of dollars? So I've had some luck in the past with, uh,
00:14:02
Plant People
ah contacting a few months in advance, woodcutters. And I've had some luck with that, ah doing that, but you have to kind of work with those folks well in advance.
00:14:08
Jessica
Nice.
00:14:12
Plant People
If if you don't have your own woodlot and you're not cutting these things yourself.
00:14:15
Jessica
So you mentioned drilling in the logs.
00:14:16
Plant People
Yeah.
00:14:18
Jessica
So like, so you got your logs and the next step is, and you said mentioned like putting your spores in, right? So you can, you can order spores, right?
00:14:25
Plant People
Yeah.
00:14:26
Jessica
Like, so like, I mean,
00:14:27
Plant People
Yeah. and And that's a question we get a lot because ah you know people are a little bit nervous at first when we first introduced the concept of drilling a natural log and then putting mushroom spawn or mycelium into the log. We're like, no, it's there's companies that sell these things and it I kind of compare it to seeding a tomato. It's a known strain.
00:14:49
Plant People
and it's important to know that if you're working with the if you just look it up online spell out shiitake mushroom spawn you're going to come up with some companies probably you know close to you that sell these things but it's a known strain of shiitake and you're going to get questions from these supply companies they'll say well which zone are you located or watch your zip code and then they'll ask you a few more questions um
00:15:06
Jessica
the
00:15:14
Plant People
based on what you're trying to do specifically because there's different strains of shiitakes particularly there when I was doing it I used a wide temperature strain but now there's some specialized strains that do a little bit better they'll flush a little quicker or they'll will inoculate better in colder weather so there's there's different strains of shiitake mushrooms and whatever your order source is for those things just be prepared they're going to ask you a few questions based on when you're going to drill, what are you going to drill, and what are you expecting for timeline and stuff.
00:15:46
Plant People
So yeah, when you're colonizing the log with this mushroom spawn, you know you're typical you're you're ordering something that's almost like a tomato seed, ah but it's a known thing.
00:15:46
Jessica
I have a surprise mushroom.
00:15:57
Plant People
It's not like we're going out into the woods and collecting some random spawn and bringing it back. no Yeah, surprise mushroom. So ah typically what it looks like when you have your logs is, you know, you get it up on some kind of bench or working heath. There's lots of variations of how we lifted the logs. I use like little, you know, stands for the logs, but you get it up on there and then you need a drill because you're drilling with a specific size drill.
00:16:22
Plant People
And your order company will help you with this because they have all of these supplies too. Not only do they have the spawn, they'll have, which you don't need a lot of specialized equipment if you're only drilling a few for yourself. But if you're doing hundreds of logs, they'll have things like high speed drills, angle drills with special angles to make it easier on your wrist. They'll come with drill bit stops, high speed drill bits.
00:16:43
Plant People
and all the other supplies that go along with doing like a commercial operation of shiitakes. But if you're just doing a few yourself or maybe just two or three logs, just a few logs, yeah.
00:16:53
Jessica
Yeah, just have some backup batteries ready to go for the drills.
00:16:56
Plant People
Yeah, batteries are great, but they run out really quick because you're drilling a lot of holes in a kind of a pattern up and down the log.
00:16:59
Jessica
Yep.
00:17:05
Plant People
We won't get into a lot of details of that, but there's there's you're drilling rows of holes up and down the logs and the row the number of rows is based on the diameter of the log. So a
Moisture Maintenance: Wax Sealing and Storage
00:17:15
Plant People
six inch diameter log will have more rows of holes than a four inch diameter.
00:17:19
Plant People
There's just this formula. But the rule of thumb is you're going to be drilling a lot of holes. So batteries, I've never had a lot of luck, even with the commercial but commercial battery systems.
00:17:23
Jessica
Mmhmm.
00:17:28
Plant People
So I always used quartered drills. So you're drilling a bunch of holes and you're buying spawn in one of two common forms. ah there's There's some other forms but the two main forms of spawn either comes on wooden dowels that you then bang into those specific size holes or you come you can purchase sawdust spawn.
00:17:49
Plant People
ah that you have a special little plunger tool that you purchase. That's a kind of a specialized tool that if you're using sawdust spawn, you need this tool to then put in the hose. So that's how you're inoculating the logs is you're drilling the hose and then you're using dowels, wooden dowels covered with spawn or you're using sawdust.
00:18:10
Plant People
um
00:18:12
Jessica
And then you need to cover them, right?
00:18:12
Plant People
And that yes, you need to cover them with
00:18:14
Jessica
To seal moisture.
00:18:16
Plant People
Yep, to seal in the moisture and and also the temperature of its food grade wax is what it amounts to paraffin wax or cheese wax. I forget which is it's a food grade wax that is sold also by the mushroom supply companies.
00:18:26
Jessica
Yeah.
00:18:29
Plant People
And you're heating this ah to a given point. And what I always did was I just use ah like fry daddy pots or, you know, some kind of a fryer pot, oil fryer pot.
00:18:40
Plant People
And I would set that to a certain temperature. But these are high smoke point waxes, food grade waxes. And since you have an exposed surface, remember the name of the game is you want to exclude all other ah funguses.
00:18:54
Plant People
So you're sealing in the hole that seals in moisture and gives the shiitake mushroom time to colonize the log, move into the log. But it also sterilizes and covers that hole, minimizing any kind of contamination risk.
00:19:08
Plant People
So you're kind of doing that.
00:19:08
Jessica
And do you think, from what I've heard, ah that the spawn, like the sawdust version, does it colonize quicker than the plugs, you think?
00:19:18
Plant People
I've always, it's sort of anecdotal. I've not seen any research on it, but we've had this discussion with different producers of bigger producers and I think so. Uh, for me it tended to, yeah.
00:19:29
Jessica
well oh Yeah, Alexis and I did some logs at like the same time. And I had like the little plugs. That's what I had for my class that I did. And she had just um some of like the sawdust.
00:19:43
Jessica
And she hers, like mine finally, as Ray knows, the other day we got my very first shiitake mushroom.
00:19:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:50
Jessica
like We were just super excited because my little boys helped hammer those in. So one of my sons remember doing it.
00:19:55
Plant People
Oh yeah, big fun.
00:19:57
Jessica
um But Alexis had like got mushrooms like the year before. ah Mine, so mine was like a full year behind hers.
00:20:01
Plant People
Yeah. And there's a lot of factors like tree species makes a big difference too, because the typical time, let's say that I didn't do a fall drill.
00:20:04
Jessica
so
00:20:12
Plant People
I didn't do fall logs. I did spring logs in March. Sometimes with if I'm using something like a tulip poplar tree, it's a softer wood, it colonizes easier. ah the The mycelium of the mushroom can move through the log, colonize quicker. I've actually gotten logs that I drilled in March. I would get log logs producing mushrooms in December.
00:20:34
Plant People
like really quick.
00:20:34
Jessica
Wow.
00:20:34
Plant People
Now my oaks were typically a little slower, but no matter what, if I use sawdust spawn, they tended for me personally to colonize faster. The dowel spawn worked just fine, but the I don't know, I've just observed that myself.
00:20:44
Jessica
So yeah, so is it about a year from the time you get it or is it a couple of, yeah, a timeline for them.
00:20:51
Plant People
Yeah, well, it you know, ideally, yes, environments got a lot to do with it.
00:20:54
Jessica
I know environment has a lot to do with it too.
00:20:59
Plant People
The the the strain of spawn that you're using has, a lot to do with it, and they can give you an estimated time. ah Your orders place that you're working with ah can give you some idea of how long, but best case scenario, 12 months, more typical scenario is 18 months. In fact, if I would have, for instance, if I would have drilled this fall, ah it may be like the following fall or the following spring after that fall, 18 months, ah
00:21:32
Plant People
ah Before you get anything and that's more typical now if you've got several logs there's a way to sort of structure the production a little bit where you know when they're going to produce and Did did you guys soak your logs Jessica when you had logs?
00:21:48
Jessica
I did just with one of them to test it out because I was thinking like, oh, we're at a year and I don't have anything.
00:21:51
Plant People
Mm-hmm Yeah
00:21:56
Jessica
But in reality, that that was okay. And I guess just so we don't skip ahead. um I know a big question I always had in the class, okay, we did these, we drilled them, we covered them with wax, where do we put them?
00:22:07
Jessica
like where like What's the best place to stick them while we wait for mushrooms to develop?
00:22:09
Plant People
hey Yeah, once you drill them and once you've waxed them, the next thing I would always do is I would take aluminum tags. You can cut up an aluminum can or you can actually purp purchase little square aluminum tags from ah the order source once again that you're getting your spawn from. you Just ask for aluminum tags. But I would staple those just using a standard staple gun to the to the ends of the log and I would put like, if I ordered, you know, like from Fielden Forest, I'm just, you know, that's the, one of the order sources, one of many, but I would put F and F and then I would put the strangest shiitake that I used and the date that I, um
00:22:49
Plant People
inoculated that log because I'm going to look at that later and after 12 months, that's going to let me know that I can start to force that log this way you can force the log fruit. So I tag the logs and then I take them to a location that's high humidity, the densest shade that you have, the highest humidity location that you have. That's really important because remember, shiitakes are a living organism. They need things like we need. ah One of those things Very critical things is moisture. Moisture in the logs. Really, really super important. So you're looking for dense shade and high humidity. Down low next to a creek is great because you tend to have a little bit higher humidity in locations like that, not right in the water.
00:23:31
Plant People
But I had my logs that I, there it was close to a creek and it was dense shade. But that but that's ah important places to put your logs. If you put them out in full sun and you don't water them, like with a soak or hose during dry really dry periods, what's going to happen is all of your spawn is going to die in your log or most of it's going to die.
00:23:43
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:23:48
Jessica
Mm
00:23:49
Plant People
And you may or may not ever get any mushrooms. Yeah.
00:23:52
Jessica
hmm.
00:23:52
Plant People
So that's sort of the next step is storage. Because like Jessica said, it's at least going to be 12 months before you see anything at all in that log. And you can the next question people have is, well, how do you know that the mushroom spawn is working?
00:24:09
Plant People
If you look at the ends of the log, you'll actually see them start to turn white. And that's actually the mushroom itself. That's a mycelium. Whereas the actual mushroom that you see and eat, that's more of the, you could call that the the mushrooms bloom almost.
00:24:18
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:24:24
Jessica
I guess flower, right?
00:24:25
Plant People
That's a reproductive part of them. Yes. It's almost like it's flower where the actual mushroom plant per se, that's in the log. That's a mycelium, the tiny little threads of mycelium.
00:24:34
Jessica
That's what gave me hope with mine was that I saw that. And because also where we have been in droughts, if you have been in Kentucky, these last two summers have been kind of hard. I watered them like every day when I was watering my plants every day.
00:24:49
Plant People
how did you How did you water them? Did you just like well sprinkle them with some water?
00:24:51
Jessica
I just I just soaked them like with the hose every time with part of my normal watering of all my annual containers that I have.
00:24:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:25:00
Jessica
I would go over to where they were located, um which I had them under like a big tree where they got pretty much all shade under there and even are kind of shaded in the winter from like the house and stuff.
00:25:11
Jessica
um And then we just soak them every time as I walk past.
00:25:14
Plant People
and And people that do that, you kind of pay attention. If you have them in a spot where you're going to see them and you can remember to water them, if you've got a water source nearby, it's the people that basically have the most consistent luck with these. And you know to test my logs to see if they're getting enough water, I mean, you've handled these things. So you know what they feel like when there's maximum moisture in there when you drill them. That's maximum moisture. And if you go by and you fill your logs, let's say in June or July, and they're super lightweight, that's a problem.
00:25:42
Plant People
That means they're drying out too much. That means you may consider a shade cloth. You may consider soaker hoses or like Jessica did. You may just kind of go through with a sprinkler any way that you can get water on there. The slower drip the better.
00:25:56
Plant People
But anyway, you can get moisture in that area of the logs and on the logs the better as that mushroom is colonizing the log for those 12 to 18 months.
00:26:00
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:26:05
Plant People
um And if you're a homeowner, you may never force the log to flush. You may see it every day. And then all of a sudden you notice during the cooler months, typically once in the spring naturally, and then once in the fall, there'll be roughly two flushes per year, one spring,
Mushroom Flushing: Natural vs. Forced
00:26:21
Plant People
one fall.
00:26:21
Plant People
And that's when the temperatures start to change, the moisture is going to be hostile in the log. And that's when the mushroom is basically doing the best. And as the temperatures start to warm, you have high humidity, ah warm past freezing.
00:26:34
Plant People
That's when you're going to have your natural flushes. But it's hard to tell when that's going to happen naturally, I guess, just getting it.
00:26:38
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah. We were really so like, I've checked those things all the time. And then it was just a couple of weekends ago, we finally discovered I had two shiitake mushrooms on a log and we were just ecstatic about that.
00:26:49
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:52
Jessica
Like so excited because like didn't think anything was, you know, happening with them.
00:26:57
Jessica
So there's hope now there's hope that that'll flush again. Right. And that, um, the other ones,
00:26:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:00
Plant People
Yeah, that definitely is in there. I mean you've got shiitakes. So yeah, and you know log a hardwood log will last depending on the size of the log But you know four to five years on average Maybe if it's a something like a softwood like a tulip poplar it'll last a little bit less But I've had six inch, you know, once again little little too big, but I've had six inch wide oak logs produced beyond seven years
00:27:23
Jessica
Wow.
00:27:24
Plant People
that they actually they you know the hardwoods they produce a little longer but your average lifespan of a log is four to five years just on average um and once you start to see that production if you're just going to let let them naturally flush just start watching in the spring and pay close attention in the fall the biggest problem with growing these things if you let them naturally flush is sometimes you'll miss the flush and the way that you tell when the mushroom is i guess for lack of a better word ripe or ready to harvest
00:27:31
Jessica
Wow.
00:27:53
Plant People
is if you look at mushrooms and shiitakes are an example of this type of mushroom, they're going to sort of be closed. The edges of a mushroom are going to be curved down and tucked under and attached. Now ah you'll want to harvest those shiitakes before that mushroom cap completely flattens out and the edges completely open up because that's a little bit overripe.
00:28:16
Plant People
you wanna harvest them before that, when the edges are still curled under. That's when you wanna harvest if you're really paying attention to that. But what I like to do, and what I was doing because I had several logs, is I would ah force them, and when people say forcing shiitakes on natural logs to flush, that just means that typically you're soaking those in something like a stock tank for 24 hours, and that does a couple different things. It changes the temperature of the log, and it introduces moisture,
00:28:46
Plant People
ah into the log. There's some other things going on, but that's two of the big things that causes that log to then flush several days later. And I don't know, I've had them flush after I soak them for 24 hours in the spring on my first flush. Let's say it's a you know log I've had for a couple years. I force it in beginning the third, fourth week of March, I will soak them for 24 hours. And seven to 14 days later, I'm harvesting mushrooms pretty regularly.
00:29:13
Plant People
and that's your first flush and you can do that again in about eight weeks let your logs rest you know for eight weeks then do it again your second flush in eight weeks and then you can do it for a third time so you typically you get three flushes at least eight weeks apart if you're doing the soak system and i like the soak system because i have better production and i actually can control somewhat when those logs are going to flush so that I can pay attention to them so I don't miss the mushrooms.
00:29:41
Jessica
Yeah.
00:29:42
Plant People
And my natural logs that I didn't flush, I would get busy doing other stuff and I would forget to look and then I would come and find a butroom a bunch of mushroom mummies, just dried up mushrooms.
00:29:53
Jessica
Oh, that's so disappointing.
00:29:53
Plant People
And that was very disheartening.
00:29:54
Jessica
Yeah.
00:29:55
Plant People
Yeah, was it was very disappointing.
00:29:56
Jessica
just Do those logs last as long? The ones that you flush?
00:30:01
Plant People
You know, I didn't see much of a difference because the the natural the the natural aging process, um you know, the decay process isn't ah really affected that much that I personally saw by flushing them three times versus letting them naturally flush.
00:30:03
Jessica
That's cool if they do.
00:30:16
Plant People
twice. So I didn't see much of a difference in the overall breakdown of the hardwoods, especially.
00:30:20
Jessica
Yeah.
00:30:21
Plant People
I'm sure if I kept a two of popular logs long enough that that that soaking process may break those softwoods down quicker, but I didn't observe much of a difference. I just was getting more more mushrooms um with the flushes.
00:30:33
Jessica
Nice.
00:30:34
Plant People
so this And I use stock tanks, but if you're lucky and you have a pond or a big a hole of water next to a creek, anything you can do to submerge the logs. The hard part is actually submerging the logs underwater because you have to use some kind of weight to weight them down because they float, they start to dry out and they're very buoyant.
00:30:47
Jessica
Yes. Yeah.
00:30:55
Plant People
So you've got to you've got to really hold those down and that was the toughest thing for me, finding something heavy enough to lay on the stock tanks that digits wouldn't pop back up, the logs wouldn't pop to the top.
00:30:57
Jessica
um
00:31:06
Jessica
Yeah.
00:31:06
Plant People
So that's the way that I grew shiitakes and got my shiitakes is I would drill in the fall and seed either in the fall or early spring and March. And then just like Jessica said, you sit them somewhere in the shade, you kind of forget about them except for watering during dry periods. Some get water on there as much as you can.
00:31:23
Plant People
And then 12 to 18 months, you can begin to either look for the mushrooms naturally, or you can go through the flushing system and control the cycle a little bit. Almost all commercial producers of shiitakes that have a lot of logs, that they they flush there's just so they can get more mushrooms and they can control the process.
00:31:41
Jessica
Well, very cool,
00:31:41
Plant People
So, yeah.
Hosting Workshops and Final Insights
00:31:44
Jessica
right? Like you taught me a lot more about shiitake mushrooms.
00:31:46
Plant People
I know you you guys have grown them yourselves and what and I love the process.
00:31:47
Jessica
So so um all it does.
00:31:50
Plant People
It makes a great workshop, doesn't it? ah but Yeah.
00:31:52
Jessica
It is a fun workshop. Like I said, if as long as you have that source for logs, then you're, you're good. but You're good, but it it does make a really fun workshop. So is there anything else you think you need to share about shiitakes today?
00:32:00
Plant People
It's great.
00:32:04
Plant People
No, that's it to Jessica nail. The most important thing, just, uh, you know, identify your logs, depending on where you are in the state. If you have a little chunk of wood that fits the description that we gave you, that it's fresh and barks intact and it's living.
00:32:17
Plant People
And you just have a, I mean, you could cut, I don't know, technically a 10 inch little chunk of wood and dry. And I've done that and drill it and inoculate it. And you've got just a little chunk of wood that's producing mushrooms. It's amazing.
00:32:27
Jessica
That's awesome.
00:32:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:32:28
Jessica
That's awesome.
00:32:29
Plant People
So fun stuff guys.
00:32:30
Jessica
Yeah, good, good topic today. So I think like our next topic, we might be talking a little bit about ah holiday cactuses and you know what's the difference between a Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, if you didn't even know there was an Easter cactus out there.
00:32:44
Jessica
ah But that wraps up today. I do not remember everything that Alexis says at the end of of our podcast.
00:32:48
Plant People
Nor do I.
00:32:51
Jessica
Besides, you know check out the show notes, follow us on Instagram, reach out to us different ways if you have any questions because we love hearing from you. and um love having your comments.
00:33:02
Jessica
So thanks for joining us today. We look forward to, look forward to you hearing us on the next one. Thomas is seeing you. So yes, thanks.
00:33:09
Plant People
yeah Yeah, see you all. Thanks so much.