Transcript
Alexis: It's spring, baby. When we're recording. i don't care when this episode comes out. It's pretty much spring.
Brett: You don't care.
Alexis: I'm claiming it. It's in my bones. I don't care if it's technically spring.
Jessica : Even if it's fake spring.
Alexis: It's fake spring.
Plant People: Fall, spring, fall, spring. We have a lot of fall springs.
Alexis: Fall spring. Fall spring too.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: The offspring.
Plant People: A lot of winters, blackberry winter, red bug winter.
Alexis: Is this one of those times when like you call it like a red bud winter or a dogwood just winter?
Plant People: I don't think anything is this early. I think it's just winter. don't know that there's any kind of winter.
Brett: Is this getting cat, is this what getting catfished means?
Jessica : we we Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Early March is just winter.
Jessica : I think we just actually had legit winter this year versus, you know, normally we haven't had
Plant People: yeah
Plant People: We had dirty snow winter, meaning it hung around long enough to get dirty. So it's been there for a while.
Brett: dirty dirty dirty snow
Plant People: So yeah.
Alexis: Code. Code.
Jessica : Yeah, very cold.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, cold.
Alexis: Plants still seem to be happy. They're like, this is winter.
Jessica : Right, yeah.
Alexis: Everybody relax. I saw my daffodils starting to poke up.
Plant People: Nice.
Jessica : Yes.
Alexis: The ones close to my house that have, um you know, gotten some good warm soil from the brick.
Jessica : I told Alexis this the other day, how my son and I were walking around our yard and we saw the daffodils coming up and he tried to explain to his dad that there are flowers that are coming up and they're the flowers that still need to be in bed.
Alexis: So.
Jessica : He's like, they need to go back to sleep. they're they're They're coming up too early. So the sleepy flowers and my husband was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And it was daffodils.
Alexis: because he wants to plant sunflowers and you told him it's still time to sleep.
Jessica : Oh, it's killing him. Yeah. He can't plant his son flowers yet.
Plant People: Not time. It's not time.
Brett: And not snow flowers.
Jessica : nope talking about planting right
Plant People: It's not snowdrops. Not that. So it is that time of year.
Alexis: Well, it's that time of year to talk about gardening and how exciting it is.
Brett: That was the shortest and most linear intro we have ever done in our lives.
Plant People: Yes, just straight to the point.
Alexis: I'm a one, okay? That's who I am as a person.
Brett: Oh my.
Plant People: It's your personality. Your whole personality is just getting to the point.
Brett: Alexis is making reference to the the Enneagram.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: and Some listeners will have heard us talk about that. But if you if you know your number, be sure to drop it in the comments or let us know. We don't know what what Ray or Jessica might be.
Brett: Jessica just went through a different type of personality test um called DISC.
Jessica : Nope.
Jessica : Yeah.
Brett: And I'm going to reuse the joke from the break. So you your type was DVD-ROM.
Jessica : Yes, that is correct.
Brett: Is that correct?
Jessica : That is correct.
Brett: Okay.
Alexis: laughter
Plant People: Compact disc.
Brett: got it.
Plant People: I'm more of, I'll be more like, what's the pre-disc to even the yeah, even the VCR tape, Betamax.
Jessica : You're a floppy disk.
Brett: Like Betamax?
Plant People: Yes, thank you, Brett.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: I'm like the OG, the Betamax that's like 14 inches wide and you put in the big Pioneer player.
Brett: That's right.
Jessica : you
Plant People: Yeah, I'll be the Betamax.
Brett: two A two-hand deal.
Plant People: I'm not an alpha for sure. I'm a Betamax.
Plant People: That's right. I'm happy with that number of good things.
Brett: Yeah, well, this isn't the Joe Rogan podcast. This is the Hort Culture podcast, so there's plenty of room for betas anytime.
Plant People: That's exactly right.
Brett: Betamax is
Plant People: ah Alexis had something we need to follow up on sometime. And I meant to tell you, Alexis, during just conversation before the show, you mentioned, well, what's your garden look like based on your personality type?
Alexis: and
Plant People: And I actually did a little program on that years ago ah based on, you know, a certain assessment tool. And, and you know, we've made jokes.
Jessica : That's cool, right?
Alexis: that is cool
Plant People: Who's the English gardener and who's the Roman straight line gardener with the trim, you know, control?
Jessica : Not I.
Plant People: Yeah. So and it was very interesting. And um yeah, we need to do something with that sometime, you know, based on personality.
Alexis: upcoming episode based on your personality
Plant People: We have to all use it on this podcast. We need to all take the same assessment or go through the same process, find out our personalities and see if there's anything to that.
Brett: that's fun That's a very fun idea.
Plant People: I would love to do that, Alexis. That was a great idea. When you said that, I was like, oh, this needs to happen. it really We need to take a little time as a group. There's four of us here that are on the show weekly, and we need to do that.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: And then we need to compare notes based on what our actual landscapes and gardens and all the associated plantings look like. So, yeah, great idea, Alexis.
Brett: Yeah, well, well, maybe to to that end or is as as a prelude to that.
Alexis: I like it.
Jessica : yeah
Brett: I thought we'd do a little ah little role playing here on the podcast, if that's OK with you all. ah So this is inspired by a conversation with my next door neighbor. Shout out to Eric.
Brett: He has been doing some ah gardening off and on for the last few years, but he was texting me about um essentially, i think the timelines of gardening and and sometimes always feeling like you're ahead or behind. And here we are. You're hearing this episode at the very earliest. You're hearing it on March second ah You may be listening to it after that and thinking to yourself in Kentucky's zone six B six a, you know, depending on where you are, am I way behind the curve or am I way ahead of the curve on getting a garden started this year? You know, like it's ah by the time I know by the time fourth of July rolls around, it's kind of a lot of, lot has gone past, but here in March,
Brett: What is the proper timeline? And um so I thought maybe you all might, might've dealt with a few folks in that, in that realm. And just to give you a sense of what I'm thinking about.
Brett: And that's all I, this is what I transitioned into. i'm not going to do a voice or anything. that would
Plant People: Please, Brett.
Jessica : It's
Brett: I mean, ah wouldn't even, I won't even submit my enemies to that.
Plant People: Please do it, boys. Well...
Brett: um
Alexis: you
Brett: I'm thinking about growing snow peas, beets, cucumbers, tomatoes and lettuce.
Plant People: <unk>s there's a There's a lot.
Jessica : wide range there.
Plant People: that ah Yeah, there's a wide range. I mean, cool and warm season stuff that you just mentioned.
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: But as a new gardener, and and this is a common scenario that we get in extension, both specialist and field staff. And so this is the point where we start asking back a lot of questions.
Plant People: I don't know, Joe Gardner or whatever your name may be.
Brett: Please call me Brett.
Plant People: don't know. Brett Gardner. ah Brett, ah your exact scenario, but Mr.
Brett: My dad is Mr. Gardner. Please call me Brett.
Plant People: Gardner. That's right. mr And you're just ah Brett Hohandle Gardner.
Alexis: Isn't there someone in the ag economics department with the last name Gardner?
Plant People: Yes, full name.
Plant People: I think so, yeah.
Jessica : Oh. so
Alexis: Yeah?
Plant People: I'm sure that there must be because it's not an uncommon last name, but this is scenario.
Brett: There's an NFL quarterback called Gardner Minshew. So...
Plant People: Oh, I did not know that.
Alexis: Solid.
Plant People: and did not expect that factoid.
Alexis: Well, Mr. mr Gardner.
Plant People: Good. I like it.
Brett: Yeah, Mr.
Plant People: But this is point where we start asking questions back because it has to do, it first thing I think of when people are talking about getting started, I want to know their experiences, what they've done before.
Brett: Minch, yeah.
Plant People: and if they're fairly new to it, we begin to ask questions like, do you plan on growing transplants? which may or may not be a good idea, depending on your knowledge, skill level, and your facilities and equipment.
Plant People: And start from there, usually, because if you're going to involve yourself in any kind of transplants, obviously you have to back that up six, eight weeks for a lot of different transplant productions. But no, you're you're you're not too late.
Brett: Well, so, okay.
Jessica : Yeah.
Brett: So the ones that I'm, so I'm talking here about snow peas, beets, cucumbers, tomatoes, and lettuce, just again, are there some of those that you would recommend growing from transplants or not growing from transplants?
Alexis: Your peas, anything that has a really large seed, typically, you can just plop right in the ground.
Jessica : yeah
Alexis: So like if it's big enough it's big enough for like a small toddler to handle, and I say that because, you know, they're dexterity and they that's why they have the big crayons, is not as good.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: So if it's something that they can like pick up one of, um corn, beans, peas, then usually direct seeding is the best way to go, especially with your peas.
Alexis: ah They do not like to be they don't love to be transplanted they get uh
Plant People: They're like curcubits, aren't they? Yeah. Some crops just don't like to be messed with.
Jessica : Right.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: and then also yourre your cool crops the ones ray mentioned you've got cool and warm weather crops so your peas your beets and your lettuce could all be considered your cool weather crops uh and which means that they tolerate a cooler soil and they like a cooler atmosphere and so at the beginning of march is a great time to direct sow all of those
Plant People: After the time.
Brett: Right now is the beginning of March.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Oh my goodness.
Jessica : right
Brett: ah So you're telling me that this is good news that I came to you now.
Alexis: So this is the good news.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: and If you have garden space, that could be even a pot. doesn't necessarily even have to be, you know, tilled ground or something. All of the things you're talking about could in theory be grown in a nice size pot.
Alexis: um
Jessica : Yeah, that's the.
Alexis: And you could plant them right in a pot that's that's ready.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: So the, yeah.
Jessica : Yeah. that's the following, yeah. The following question that Alexis just brought up is usually like, okay, well, if you're going to your own transplants or if you're doing a direct seed, what are you going to direct seed in? Do you have, you know, garden space that you can like till up in your ground? ah you know, do you have flower pots? Are you doing raised beds?
Jessica : um Are you going to build your own raised beds? Have you thought about, you know, there's a few, and we work backwards kind of, right.
Plant People: It's more about the mechanics, isn't it, Jessica? Yeah.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Jessica : And,
Plant People: It's like, what if what where are you at? I mean, there's one thing to break soil on sod, which tends to be cooler just from its very nature of being covered with sod. So you start asking all those questions of native soil, which is pretty common.
Plant People: ah Or is someone leaning towards, um you know, a large planting container or raised bed garden? Two are completely different scenarios.
Jessica : Yep.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Well, glad you asked me that because I have two scenarios that I'm thinking about.
Jessica : I often...
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Okay.
Brett: One, because I'm a true leaf, in addition to being a good little boy, i got my soil test last fall to see what things were and based on the recommendation I got from my extension agent, I made some amendments and I've got planned to add some some fertilizer.
Jessica : Oh, nice.
Plant People: Oh.
Brett: So I have some in-ground beds that are prepped. They're they're kind of ready to ready to be planted at some point.
Alexis: Beautiful. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: oh
Jessica : Good.
Brett: But I also was thinking it would be nice to have some raised beds for some of the stuff and maybe just as a different look. Is it too late to create a raised bed and then plant into it this same spring or summer?
Plant People: No, not at all.
Jessica : No. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: A lot of those crops, I mean, i don't know that you mentioned them, but if you're talking about snap beans, a lot of those aren't planted here in central Kentucky until the, you know, frost free dates, which in the spring is what the last of very last of April, beginning of May.
Plant People: That's a very important day.
Alexis: Derby day.
Jessica : no
Plant People: Yeah. Very important date wherever you're at. You're here in central Kentucky, Brett. So you would base a lot a lot of the decisions you make on that frost-free date, which, you know, lot the crops, that means that you're planting after the fact.
Plant People: So, yeah.
Brett: So i yeah I got the peas.
Plant People: yeah don't Not too late.
Brett: said the peas. Help me again. The peas, the beets. What was the other cool season?
Alexis: Lettuce.
Jessica : Lettuce.
Brett: one Lettuce.
Plant People: Lettuce.
Brett: So you're telling me when I go to put this garden out, I'm not going to be planting all of these at the exact same time.
Plant People: No, uh, not unless you're doing succession planning and we won't muddy the water with that. so yeah.
Brett: So i can I can put out those three things, the peas, the beets, and the lettuce earlier than I can the other stuff.
Jessica : right.
Plant People: Your cool seasons. Yeah. Yeah.
Alexis: Warm season.
Jessica : But you if you decide you want to attempt to grow your own tomatoes, right, ah from seed because you often get ah more wide variety to select from, right, versus what you're going to find at local greenhouses, farmers markets, and, you know, box stores, right?
Plant People: And it,
Jessica : So even though you you can plant some of that stuff outside now, you can also start those tomatoes inside now as well because they're going to want that warmth.
Alexis: warm
Jessica : You might want to get a heat mat to go with them. Same thing, you know, if you wanted to do peppers, some of the solanaceous crops, they just take a little extra time to get to get going.
Jessica : So not only can you do stuff outside, you can also start some other things inside if you want to go down that road of attempting to grow some of those summer crops as well yourself. you
Plant People: And at this point, it's usually the point where I will mention to people when they start to get an overwhelmed look in their eye because of garden math and all of
Brett: Did I look that afraid?
Plant People: ah I see the fear, Brad. And now that the if you are depending on the platform you you're watching this on or listening to this on, if you're on YouTube, you'll see the fear in Brett's eyes. The overwhelmed expression lets me know that I so i should suggest to him that to look into ID-128, and that's our Kentucky Gardening Manual.
Plant People: And all of this information we're giving you today is contained in handy charts within that manual around pages 12 and 13. You will find if you're producing transplants, you will find very, very important dates on common dates.
Plant People: on common garden crops of not when to plant those crops, but if you're dealing with transplants, it's when to seed those, ah to to have those transplants ready for six to eight weeks later at the proper time.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: You'll have that chart and you'll have ah early and late safe planting date charts for, we break Kentucky down into three regions, Western, Central, and Eastern.
Plant People: And you will have the earliest safe dates to plant things in the ground on average. And you'll have the latest latest which is a very important date to me, the late dates. I mean, we're I'm starting to use that more and more, but the latest safe dates to put things like snap beans in the ground.
Plant People: So we're throwing a lot of information at you, Brett, but all of this information is in that manual.
Brett: Yeah. So i'm I'm digesting this.
Plant People: It's in handy. Okay.
Brett: I managed to manage to look it up while you were talking.
Plant People: Stay with us this long.
Brett: And so I just went to i went to my favorite web browser and I typed in ID128.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: And the thing that came up was this really cool publication with, let me see what's on the front. some peppers in some pots to emphasize that point you made earlier, Alexis, about how you can grow stuff in pots.
Brett: That's cool. I hadn't even really thought about pots, but I'm thinking maybe I might look into that.
Alexis: It even has a chart in it, or at least it did, I'm sure it still does, of how many plants of you know you can put in what size pot.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis: So for example, it'll tell you you can use put one tomato in the equivalent of like a five-gallon bucket, but you could put two or three bean plants in a five-gallon bucket.
Jessica : Which is...
Alexis: So that can be really helpful if you're like, Well, I can only fit three five-gallon buckets on my porch, ah so what am I going to get the most bang for my buck for?
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: One of my favorite charts that I don't talk talk a lot about on there, it's a kind of a hybrid chart, but it and it appeals to the type A in my brain.
Brett: Cool.
Plant People: I think if you're looking at the latest manual, it'll be on 20-1, Brett. But if you look at that, it'll list crops starting at the earliest, the earliest crops that can either, and it the chart designates whether you start them indoors or they're direct seeded outdoors.
Jessica : and
Plant People: I love that chart because I give this to home gardeners all the time, but I like that it's kind of in chronological order, starting with all the way back in January with things like onions.
Plant People: ah You know, what you can start indoors, onions, you know, January 15th, if you're in Central Kentucky, January 22nd. Love that chart because it goes by month, what you can do ah in general. It's a great chart. And not only that, but on the lower right hand side, it's got, you know, those important frost free dates for different zones in Kentucky. so
Brett: Yeah. So I found, maybe we can talk about that one in a minute. I found down there that on page, I think 22 of the one that I'm looking at least um had the earliest and latest dates, but I'm looking on page 13, 20-13.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: There's table 20.6. I wasn't expecting this many numbers. i thought this was more of a plant situation, but 20.6. And it's talking about transplant production data or information. And it's cool. I hadn't i hadn't even thought of it this way. but So I'm looking for under warm season here um because I know that I've got warm cool season and warm season stuff.
Brett: Under the warm season, the cucumbers that I want to start, it's recommending that my transplant be three to four weeks old. And it even says here, so okay, if you want that, and and so remind me again, cucumbers, that's one of them that I want to wait until after the frost that it goes out as a plant.
Jessica : Right, yes.
Alexis: Yes.
Plant People: Warmer.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah. More like a May 1st kind of plant. Yeah.
Brett: Cool. And so it's saying for like a three to four week transplant to go out sometime in May that I probably need to start that around April 1st at the earliest.
Plant People: Which, you know, garden math, right? Four weeks, you start at April 1, you go to, brings you up to May 1.
Brett: So yeah, that makes sense.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: So that's a cool thing about these charts. They were developed for Kentucky using historical data. It's all very local specifically to Kentucky and the the three main regions we have. So yeah, it works really good.
Brett: so And something else i I didn't actually realize was that like different plants, depending on, so cucumbers and melons and stuff compared to tomatoes, compared to peppers, you actually want your transplant to be at a different age.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah, so some just some'm just um just grow faster.
Brett: What's that? Why is, why is that?
Plant People: I mean, a tomato, like if you find yourself looking at this website that Mr.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Brett is on, you'll see that a pepper is more like a six to eight week. if There's a big difference between between a pepper and a cucumber. Cucumbers get to a plantable stage about twice as quick.
Plant People: They're three to four weeks instead of like, so that's why this chart is so good. and And even experienced home gardeners that don't produce a lot of transplants, I've showed them this table and it's an eye opener for them.
Plant People: They're like, wow, we've never seen it, you know, put in such a straightforward form, all this information. So it's one of the charts that it's one of the first charts that I ah go over with home gardeners as we're looking at garden math and making sure we plant things at the right date.
Jessica : you
Brett: Thank
Plant People: So, or, you know, seeding.
Alexis: I would say, and you've heard me say it before, but I'm going to reiterate. um So if it gives you say it says, you know, six to eight weeks until transplant, go,
Alexis: ah Go with the lower number. So ah plan it. If you want to do peppers, peppers are six to eight weeks. ah Go with six weeks out from your goal date.
Alexis: So if your date, you know, is is May 1st, count about back six weeks because I'd rather you plant it and maybe it's more of like a seven or eight week. I'd rather you plant it a little bit later.
Alexis: So maybe it's, you know, March 8th.
Jessica : Really?
Brett: Okay.
Alexis: um then planting it too early or that plant getting really stressed because it's eight weeks out and oh no, a late frost has come oh no, it's been raining for two weeks and I can't get outside.
Jessica : really yeah
Alexis: It's better to have a healthy transplant that's a little bit young you know ah younger and putting it out later than an unhealthy one that's root bound going out, quote unquote, on.
Brett: so So you're saying that I should view these average seeding dates seedling dates as the earliest date possible, and if I go a little bit later than that to start them, that's okay?
Alexis: Yeah, yeah.
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis: 90% of the time it's better to be a little bit later and have a really strong transplant that's not been stressed ah going out into the ground.
Jessica : It's, yeah, it's going to take off better once it gets out there. It's you're going to get production out of it sooner than you are that stressed one as Alexis has mentioned.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Cool. So I'm not sure. Do I have to start my transplants myself?
Jessica : No.
Alexis: No. No. No, you can definitely get plugs.
Jessica : I suggest if you've never done it before, yeah go get plugs, get buy, buy from the local high school, buy them from, you know, support local growers, get them that way.
Brett: I'm just nervous about, yeah.
Alexis: lot of the farmers markets do them now.
Brett: Oh, cool.
Alexis: And, you know, whether that's, it could be cut flowers, it could be, you know, vegetables, anything like that, you can get them. um And that's a great way to support farmers early in the season too, because their, you know, money is tight.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Alexis: And a lot of the times they don't have um stuff, you know, to sell, of you know, produce to sell. So ah grabbing some tasty food,
Jessica : ye
Alexis: what will be some tasty tomato plants and then you can always supplement later if you need more so that's a benefit another tip it can yeah
Jessica : Yeah. Oh, that's a great, yeah. Cause it can be kind of daunting, right?
Brett: Yeah, it's scar a little scary.
Jessica : Starting in your own own seeds, right? Making sure you have enough.
Alexis: ah
Jessica : Cause we could go in a whole topic of that, making sure you have the right amount of light, water, all of that, depending on um what you're doing.
Alexis: o
Brett: Yeah, I feel better about the plants being outside ah and getting some rain and other things, you know, when they're inside and I have to, yeah, you give them too much water or too little.
Jessica : Yep.
Alexis: Baby them.
Brett: So yeah, I mean, I think I would like to start my own transplant someday, but I don't think I'm quite ready. So I think my plan is going to be So I guess that that means if I'm going to do that, I could just go to the farm.
Brett: I'm going to buy them from the farmer's market, for instance. Other people sell the plants. I can just go and get those on my closer to my planting date that I'm going to put plants in the ground.
Alexis: Right.
Plant People: Then you only have to worry about the planting date rather than the transplant and planting date.
Brett: And as i
Alexis: Right.
Plant People: So yeah, simplifying.
Brett: Cool.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Well, I might I might start try a few lettuce seeds as transplants and just see if I can get them started because I ordered a bunch by accident and I have enough.
Jessica : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brett: Yeah. But I'm gonna buy tomato plants, I think.
Alexis: Let, yeah, lettuce you usually don't have to do as a transplant. You certainly can if you're doing like a head lettuce, ah but lettuce is one of those things you can direct seed, which takes the stress off of you, ah but also the plant tends to be a little bit happier.
Brett: Oh, okay.
Plant People: Okay.
Alexis: ah And so that means you can just whatever ground you have ready, whether that's, like i said, a pot, a raised bed in, you know, native soil, ah just making a little furrow and sprinkling them in there. You can do, I've seen people do, which can be fun, especially if you've got, uh,
Alexis: kids that you can work with ah what we call seed tape if you've not heard of seed tape before I think they have stuff about seed tape in ID 128 but you can look it up basically um when I've done it Jessica I don't know how you've done it but we've used ah like double ply toilet paper because it breaks down you know in water and so you kind of you separate those plies and you stick a little seed in the proper spacing so say
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis: you're doing head lettuce and it should be, you know, eight inches apart. I'm just making those numbers up right now. Those are all the N1 ID 128.
Brett: right
Alexis: But let's say it's eight inches apart, you put that toilet paper down and every eight inches you stick a seed. And then all you got to do is you bury that entire strip. And so hmm.
Jessica : And she mentioned we're gluing them on and you're gluing them off and with, so like when I do it with kids, I do this as a project every year with our ag day.
Brett: um
Jessica : And we use flour and water mixed together to make a paste, right?
Alexis: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jessica : Cause it's going to dissolve. And they just use toothpicks and they put a little bit of like the glue They they learn to measure. They have their measuring sticks, you know, their rulers, and they mark off how many inches between the seeds.
Jessica : Put a little bit of glue on there, which is the flour and water paste. And then that same toothpick, they can pick up one of those tiny seeds very easily and stick it right on that glue. And then it, you know, it dries and it's ready to go and plant.
Plant People: I've noticed that that it's become more popular over time. I mean, commercially, you could always get the coated seeds to make them easier. to They're modified with some kind of clay coating or or something like that to make seeds bigger or more easier to run through a mechanized system.
Alexis: handle
Jessica : Mm-hmm. Okay.
Plant People: But now for homeowners, I'm starting to see that more because a real problem with the small seeded stuff is that they simply drop down through the cracks in soil. They go too deep. They never germinate or they don't get enough.
Plant People: They don't get the requirements that they need to to grow properly.
Alexis: or you lose them when the wind blows or you breathe on your hand too heavy that's why i bring up the seed tape you don't yeah it doesn't necessarily have to be something to you you can do the kid if you're just like
Plant People: Yeah. Yes. And there goes $5 worth of Yeah.
Brett: And
Plant People: Yeah. yeah
Alexis: a person who likes a project, especially if it's like still cold or it's really rainy outside and, you know, you can do this for yourself and then you can just wrap that back up onto something and it's ready to go, you know, in another week when you are able to go out and plant.
Alexis: So,
Brett: and so the seed tape, the toilet paper that's going into the ground.
Alexis: right, right. So you're burying it completely um because that toilet paper dissolves in a day as soon as it it really gets watered.
Brett: and Okay.
Jessica : And just follow, as we say constantly, whatever the seed packet says, that's what you follow, your spacing and your depth of, you know, planting.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Yeah. So I do have a couple of questions about that here in a second, but I, I wanted to just take a look at some of these dates on table 2015. Also, thank you all so much for your time. i know that it's not typical to have three extension people helping someone who's never grown a garden before, but I really,
Brett: I really appreciate it.
Alexis: Ooh, can I, if we're going to talk about dates, can I give you my tip for calendar?
Brett: um
Alexis: So please.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: Okay. So um growing, growing, when you get to, you know, commercial growers, a lot of the time you'll see growing um you know the weeks of the year.
Brett: Obviously, i say I'm here to learn.
Jessica : you
Alexis: And so they'll say, you know, grow, sow this on week 20, plant on, you know, week 40 or whatever. so it's just how many weeks you're in a year. But what I have found 20 of the year.
Brett: Wait, wait, wait. Week 20 is like January 1 is the first week and then January 7.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Okay, got it.
Alexis: Yeah, yeah. So, ah but on your phone calendar or your, you know, whatever calendar, digital calendar you use, um but even your paper calendars, you can switch to have those turned on and they can be really helpful if you're looking into seed packet that maybe is telling you, you know, so this on a certain week.
Jessica : you
Alexis: But what I like to use it for is, you know, if we're saying, you know, plant eight weeks before your frost date. Well, you can go in and say my frost date is May 5th. That's week 20.
Alexis: And then I can count eight back from that. And so then you're just subtracting eight from 20. And sometimes like, you know how the Mondays don't always line up and, you know, you're trying to count back Mondays and
Brett: My Mondays never line up.
Alexis: Your Mondays never line up or or whatever it is.
Plant People: No, with anything.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Alexis: um
Brett: Mondays.
Alexis: It seems really silly and you're like, Alexis, I can just count it on the calendar, but the number of times I've still gotten it wrong when I'm just trying to count you know two eight Tuesdays back versus if I can just subtract and find an actual week, um I have found that really helpful.
Brett: Yeah.
Brett: No, that makes total sense.
Alexis: so
Brett: I think the idea of that, yeah. So you're saying instead of instead of working off of actual dates that change each year,
Alexis: Right.
Brett: Instead, you're working off of which sequential week of the year it is. yeah We've done that with some of the price reporting stuff.
Plant People: Thank you.
Brett: you know We report the 42nd week of the year, or that and maybe not that much, but 32nd week of the year for ah farmer's market prices or something like that.
Alexis: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brett: Similar similar kind of deal. That makes sense. So as I'm looking at these I, you know, Ray, you mentioned I'm in the central and I went and double checked. There's a little map where I could see that I am in confirmed in the central region.
Brett: It looks like for the most part, I am ahead of the curve on everything. Everything on here, the earliest safe planting date is after when I am right now.
Brett: The only one that's close and technically I guess I'm i'm behind is my Snow Peas. They say March 1st and today's March 2nd. I'm probably not going to get them in until the end of the week.
Brett: Does that mean that I miss the window or can I?
Plant People: Better a little later than too early. i think you're right in the window because a lot of these remember are the earliest dates, the very earliest dates.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Brett: oh okay. Okay.
Plant People: You should be thinking about it.
Jessica : hu
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: also I think of them as a week so if it's you know so on week 20 you have a full seven days of a week right so you know
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that i
Plant People: It seems like as a home gardener, Brett, you're probably well ahead of the curve of a lot of new, newer especially newer gardeners. You're way ahead of someone that calls me on May the 1st and says, what can we do?
Plant People: So we start from a lot of times. that
Alexis: ah fall garden.
Plant People: Yes.
Brett: Thank you for that.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : Right.
Brett: Thank you for that praise.
Jessica : Plan for your fall garden.
Plant People: I mean, they the then we start talking about that latest safe dating, that that the latest date chart for Central Kentucky.
Brett: Yeah, you can get ah get a call in the same week. One is, i want to have a tomato garden and our tomato going to be at the farmer's market this week.
Alexis: isn
Brett: That both happens on May 1st.
Jessica : Right.
Plant People: Yes.
Jessica : Yes.
Plant People: Yes. That is not that that's pretty common. In fact. So, yeah.
Brett: Sorry, I broke character.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: um Yeah, i guess I guess any other thoughts you all have as far as the timing goes?
Jessica : bean Beans, corn, and tomatoes.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica : That's what everyone's looking for.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: And I noticed all of these late dates. Does that mean like Is that when I would be picking it or like i how what's that about?
Plant People: It denotes it on the chart there if it's direct seeded, first of all, or transplant ah for those ah latest safe planting dates.
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: From my experience working with home gardeners, we don't use that side of the chart as much because spring gardens are more typical. The frustrating thing for me about the latest dates from a homeowner perspective is that, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. If you go to this garden manual and you look on that twenty twenty two page or you know, whatever version of the file you're looking at is that keep in mind that transplants for those things that should be transplanted, you may not have the availability that you think you might have ah for gardens that are planted out of that typical spring season.
Plant People: a So you may not have a source for those.
Brett: to not To buy them from someone else, you mean?
Plant People: You may not be able to buy those.
Jessica : Right.
Plant People: So yeah, that's, that's a tough thing.
Brett: the So the, yeah, the store has transplants for the spring.
Plant People: Yeah. Okay.
Brett: Everybody's excited, but in the fall, I may need to start my own.
Plant People: Yes, exactly.
Jessica : Coal crops is is a good example of that because um so you're like your broccoli, your cabbage, ah all of those kind of crops, called ah cauliflower, cauliflower.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: What is that?
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: What's that, Cole?
Brett: Oh.
Brett: Green. The green stuff.
Jessica : Right.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : And they traditionally do really well in Kentucky in the fall.
Alexis: to
Jessica : um
Brett: Hmm.
Jessica : And it just depends because sometimes you can find it at local stores ah in the spring. Right. Because but then a lot of times we heat up too quickly for them in the spring and they they enjoy those cooler nights.
Alexis: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : and So it's kind of lucky when you can find like a local feed store or garden supplies or that will actually carry those transplants or greenhouse. um in in the fall in the time because a lot of times you don't see them so much at farmers markets because by that time those farmers market vendors are rocking and rolling with their tomatoes that are coming in and and if they are if they do have any of those transplants they're planting them for their themselves you know to have that produce available coming up
Plant People: Yeah,
Plant People: yeah. yeah
Alexis: Right. But
Plant People: It's much more common for commercial producers to involve themselves with that. i I very rarely find a good selection of all the things that I want for those late, safe planting dates, the fall crops.
Jessica : yeah
Plant People: You're absolutely right when you deal with those. So if you get interested in those as a home gardener, you either work out a deal directly with a small local greenhouse or plan on growing those yourself if you want access to the varieties that you want, if you have specific things in mind.
Brett: That makes sense. And i'm I'm glad that I checked and looked at it now because I think so.
Alexis: but
Brett: I mentioned I'm not really going to grow any transplants this spring myself.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Brett: I think I'm going to let let the pros do that one more time at least. But I'm kind of surprised how how early some of these latest safe dates are.
Brett: Some of them are in June, even in in July.
Plant People: Oh yeah.
Alexis: So um I don't know if we answered your question though, Brett, on like why that let late date is.
Brett: Yeah, why that Why that?
Alexis: So why can't why shouldn't you plant after that latest planting date?
Brett: why why is that
Alexis: So um the whether it's warm season or cool season, we've talked about how there's crops that don't like the cold and then there's crops who thrive in the cold, right? And so The idea is that they have a certain number of days until they reach maturity and maturity is them, you know, fruiting or being harvestable.
Jessica : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alexis: And so if you plant them too late, they won't reach maturity before that untimely weather comes in or that bad weather comes in.
Plant People: Central Kentucky is like last of October, beginning of November of the
Brett: I see.
Alexis: Right.
Brett: So you need to just give them that saying you have to have this in by July 15th allows that thing to get to its mature stage before it gets too cold for it.
Alexis: Before frost kills it, correct?
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Right, right, exactly.
Plant People: And the days are getting shorter.
Brett: Ah. Hmm.
Plant People: So, I mean, you take something like a tomato and it's amazing. You plant that thing late and they're just so day day length sensitive that the crops just don't do well.
Alexis: That's very true.
Plant People: Number one, the frost is going to get them.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Number two, the days are too short to produce those warm season crops. So double whammy. Good point, Alexis. Yeah.
Brett: Cool. Well, so I do have a few ah seeds picked out for some stuff that I may be wanting to grow and maybe I could read through. So, so this, I'm looking at some beets here, for instance, and they say, and I'll, I'll go ahead since we're, you know, since we're video conferencing for you all helping me out here, I'll go ahead and share the link to these beets that I'm looking at.
Brett: And they look yummy. I love a roasted beet.
Jessica : and
Brett: Hope to grow one someday.
Jessica : try them every year and still it's a no.
Plant People: and not ah Not a fan, huh?
Alexis: taste Tastes a little bit like dirt for you, Jessica.
Jessica : Yeah.
Brett: You mean eating?
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: you like pickle beets, though?
Jessica : I can't think if I've had pickled beets or not.
Plant People: I like pickle beets.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: There are definitely some beets that I think if they they get too hot, maybe, that they do taste more like dirt.
Plant People: Wonky.
Alexis: And I really like beets, but like sometimes I'm like, this tastes like dirt.
Plant People: They take a lot.
Jessica : Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: They taste like dirt. Yeah.
Jessica : It's like one of those things. I try every time like this is the year. I'm going to like it. And then I'm like, oh, no.
Alexis: I'm proud of you.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: How many times have you done it?
Alexis: No.
Jessica : I don't know. a lot.
Brett: Like more than 10?
Plant People: Multiple times.
Jessica : Probably. Same thing with lemons.
Plant People: Okay.
Brett: Yeah. There's some kind of break-even number like with kids trying stuff where it's like if you try it this many times then it's like probably not.
Plant People: It becomes a no-go. Yeah, just go away from it. Yeah.
Jessica : I just need to stop at this point.
Brett: Just give it up, okay? Just beat it.
Plant People: Maybe. Maybe.
Jessica : don't try beet juice as an alternative. That won't make things better.
Brett: Oh, no.
Alexis: new
Plant People: Ooh. Ooh.
Jessica : It
Plant People: Yeah, that doesn't seem like a good alternative.
Brett: and and Also, it sounds like a nightmare trip to the bathroom later when you forgot that you drank beet juice.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah, that's... Yeah, and and so many bad things.
Brett: Like, ah!
Jessica : was just a sip and I was like, this is not good.
Plant People: Not for you.
Jessica : It was in honor Dwight Schrute to see.
Plant People: Beats Battlestar Galactica. Yeah. Yes, I was going to Shrewd Farms.
Jessica : see
Brett: Ah, because every time I have beats, I always almost call a nephrologist.
Jessica : yeah
Brett: be Like, I think I'm done.
Plant People: What is happening?
Alexis: Yeah, I have to remind myself.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Don't forget you ate beets.
Brett: Turns out.
Plant People: Done for.
Alexis: if you's ah If it's a beet asparagus today, all bets are off.
Brett: Ooh, it's a multi-sensorial experience, like synesthesia.
Plant People: Yeah. It's your, yeah. It's going to be a bad day for everybody.
Brett: So on here, it says, um it says that the days to maturity on these beats is 55 days.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Brett: So you're telling me as I went back to the ID 128 and I look here and it says my earliest safe planting date is March 15. So if I were to go out and put a beat in the ground March 15, then it germinates 55 days from then in theory, ah you know, things can change a little bit.
Plant People: yeah
Plant People: Yep. Almost two minutes.
Brett: I'm going to have a beat.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : You should be able to harvest, yeah.
Alexis: Yep.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: So by like, um like the middle of May
Alexis: It's compressive, isn't it?
Brett: ish, right?
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Alexis: If you do radishes, it's like some of them are like 30 days. It's wild.
Plant People: And this is an important point. thing to point out on seed packs and there will be some variants based on specific varieties. That's why I love the seed packs and almost all seed packs that I've ever seen will say how many days to maturity.
Plant People: And you'll notice with the, I'll pick on tomatoes again. There's a big variance in like, you know, tomatoes or i don't, beets don't vary as much, but look on that seed pack and on average, you
Brett: Yeah, I noticed that. Yeah.
Plant People: this chart is going to get you where you need to be, you know, give or take plus or minus a few percentage points. But on things like tomatoes, it can be more significant things like so corn sweet corn.
Jessica : right
Plant People: and It can be way, you know, a big variance.
Jessica : yeah there's some sweet corn varieties that can be very long to maturity but then there are those out there that you can find that are a quick maturing one that are good for planting in like late june so you get like a fall crop of sweet corn because it can you can be harvesting sweet corn in september with them
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: So these these averages are good, but just keep in mind that if you're like, oh, I planted my tomato this at this time and it's it was two weeks later than what the chart said, well, that probably is a varietal difference.
Brett: Yeah, once as I was shopping, I noticed that like there's tomatoes on here that their data maturity is 60 days and there's other ones where it's over 100 days.
Jessica : that in
Plant People: Yeah, it's incredible.
Jessica : yeah yeah
Brett: That's guts over a month difference.
Plant People: Yeah, really incredible.
Jessica : And you've got to think of environmental things too.
Brett: Hmm.
Jessica : Like, you know, with that, that can play a part in it with maturity, cool springs, or if it gets too hot too quick.
Plant People: Cool springs. Yeah.
Jessica : Cause eventually, I don't know, we probably already said this on here at some point, just not this episode, but like eventually gets so hot outside that even the plants are like, I'm done. I'm not pur producing, you know?
Plant People: They go sterile. The blooms do bad things happen with vine crops.
Jessica : Right. So, so.
Plant People: A lot of the crops. Yeah.
Jessica : So things things can happen like that too that can fluctuate that day to maturity. But it's pretty pretty accurate most the time.
Brett: in the
Plant People: Gardening more than anything is about the math. It's about the calendar. Yeah. Getting that right.
Brett: in the In the world of bonsai, they talk about a a period of summer dormancy where there's like the biological processes slowed down so much just because it's so, so hot that, yeah, so that's that makes sense to me.
Brett: So I guess the only other, the main other thing I was thinking about, I guess, is just making sure about the spacing and like, I don't want to have way too many or put them in too close.
Brett: Would you recommend looking somewhere in a publication or is this a seed pack question?
Plant People: All in that gardening publication. at Seed Pack, yes, but also ah that gardening publication that we've been referring to constantly during the course of this episode.
Brett: Okay.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: So this is saying begin sowing.
Jessica : Well, in
Brett: Yeah, sorry. Okay.
Jessica : I was going to say, and then like when you buy transplants, most of them will have, like sometimes you might buy them from somebody and they'll just have like the name on them. But majority of the time they will have tags that will have that information as well.
Jessica : Like your spacing and what their needs are.
Brett: Okay.
Brett: So what's the downside of planning this stuff too close together?
Plant People: Number one.
Alexis: if it's a root crop they won't get as big so um
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously if you have a container, it's a little different. If you have a big container that gets, you know, yeah.
Alexis: to water a lot more
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Water more self shading diseases that, I mean, yeah, lots of things.
Jessica : and that yeah I was going to say disease. Leaves can't dry off as easily ah for that disease pressure.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : I automatically think of tomatoes, you know, when they get planted too close together.
Plant People: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Jessica : It's hard to harvest them unless you're going to, you know, prune and tie them and all of that.
Brett: Okay, well, I'll make sure to space them out. So so I'm looking at the beat seed directions here, just making sure that I understand these before I go home and forget everything.
Plant People: Drop the beats.
Brett: um beginning Before I go home and drop the beat. ah Begin early sowings when soil has warmed, but I'm going to go based on the the seat that their date that was in ID 128 and even maybe go a couple days past that.
Jessica : you
Brett: 15 seats. So 15 seeds per foot, a half inch deep rows, 12 to 18 inches apart, thin to one plant per three inches for a continuous supply of greens and small tender beats. So seeds at two week intervals until eight weeks. That's, that's more advanced than me. I want to get one round of beats.
Brett: So thin to one. Does that just mean i like, what do I, how do I do that?
Alexis: So beets are one of the weird ones. You picked a weirdo. um one be One beet seed, what you would grab as one beet seed is actually got multiple embryos in it.
Plant People: Way to go, Brett. Way to go.
Brett: Dang. Let's see.
Jessica : you
Alexis: So in theory, like one quote unquote beet seed will produce multiple plants.
Brett: Mmm.
Alexis: So it's sort of like um it has quadruplets, basically. That would be the equivalent of that versus something like lettuce,
Brett: Oh.
Alexis: is one seed is one plant. All right. So that's you you picked a weirdo. So that's one of the reasons one of the reasons it tells you to thin is because it knows that you are going to get way more plants than you actually need. But there's there's no way you can avoid it because of the ah nature of that seed.
Brett: I see.
Jessica : And it's it's hard thinning or the concept is thinning is hard for people sometimes because we because a lot of them when you're direct seeding, you're just taking that package or, you know, you're sprinkling them along that furrow or you've, you know, you're it's hard to space like those little beet seeds all apart or like a carrot seeds.
Alexis: hmm.
Jessica : And then they all come up together and you're like all excited about all your little plants coming up. and And then you're going to go back through you're going rip them out. Right.
Plant People: Yep.
Jessica : You're going to get that proper spacing. And that's hard sometimes for people to do that. But then as we've already mentioned, Alexis already said, you know, the overcrowding, they are just not going to produce as well if you leave them.
Alexis: Quality over quantity.
Jessica : Yeah. If you don't do that thinning.
Brett: So to ask a silly question, thinning just means pulling them out.
Jessica : home
Jessica : yep
Brett: Pulling out ones that are not, that are too close together.
Plant People: ye
Plant People: Some people will do pinching.
Alexis: Right.
Jessica : Yeah,
Plant People: i mean, there's different ways to accomplish that. It could be little specialized little hand rake or hand tool.
Jessica : yellow little scissors or...
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Okay.
Plant People: Lots of different ways to do them.
Brett: So I'm putting out more than I, more than I'm going to need. And then I'm so taking out some to leave room so that the ones that are left behind can grow big and strong.
Plant People: Your garden will thank you later.
Alexis: And putting out a little bit extra is always good because you're going to you may have you know some get eaten by a bird or a mouse or just not germinate because they got too much water or whatever that is.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: So, you know, you're kind of compensating and seed is so inexpensive in comparison to like a transplant.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: So is there anything you would recommend that I do in the ground versus in my raised bed that I'm going to build?
Plant People: Uh, things like, I think of so crops in the way that they grow, like corn is ah to me, not a good use of a raised bed because the size of corn and the intensity, I save crops like that for in-ground.
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis: Corn, yeah. cornia
Jessica : yeah
Plant People: Um, but because, and there's a big difference. There's a huge difference between the nutrient profile of in-ground, which is more buffered native mineral-based soils, you know, dirt.
Plant People: Sorry, Alexis. I know that your eye just twitched, but, uh, that's more buffered. So you can, typically deal with nutrients a little easier in soil.
Brett: Thank you.
Plant People: And I think about all those crops and raised beds and you have to be a little bit more careful about your fertilizer usage.
Jessica : and
Jessica : I also think about like space wise in that raised bed. We like, we talk a lot about square foot gardening and stuff and how raised beds can be used that way.
Plant People: one
Jessica : But like your vining crops, think about how much space they're going to take up.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: you yeah
Jessica : And, um you know, if you plant them ground at the end of a garden, ah you know, for them to run and have as much space as they want, because you don't want them to overtake that whole raised bed you know,
Plant People: yeah
Brett: So that's like my my cucumbers in this case.
Jessica : Well, cucumbers, yeah.
Plant People: Depends on your, if yeah they're the patio cucumbers or bush top, the really compact cucumbers.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : Yeah.
Brett: So what would be other vine and crop? Sorry.
Jessica : So like if you decide to grow butternut squash or if you try to do some watermelon or, you know, something else like that, but like, yeah, yeah.
Brett: Oh.
Plant People: Yeah. Watermelons. Yeah.
Brett: I see. I gotcha.
Jessica : Those cucumbers, you could go either way. And especially sometimes like you can provide a small trellis for them to grow up and that might be anchored better in a raised than out in your, you know, just your general garden plot.
Alexis: I've seen really cool raised beds um at a community garden I was helping with and they had some pretty tall raised beds and they were, you know, about ah three or four foot apart so you could walk in between them.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: And then they created like a, um a
Jessica : Like an archway, right?
Alexis: and yeah, an archway, but in it was like a teepee shape basically where you could walk underneath it.
Brett: move
Alexis: you know connecting the beds and they ran strings up so that their beans, they specifically were doing runner beans, but you could also do melons or something like that and put some trellis up ah makes it easier to harvest you don't have to bend over and it also gets things ah you know shh spreads things out a little bit more and uses utilizes some space you can even use you know if you create a trellis ah system you can use that shade we talked about shading out you know if you overcrowded your plants shading out is bad but ah in some cases you can use the shade from other plants for your cooler weather crops so like lettuce is a good example
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Alexis: of something that you could grow in the shade in the summer.
Brett: That's, yeah, that's awesome. So I think, I think what I've decided, i added radishes to my list because you said they grow really fast and I could use an easy win early in the season. um I'm going to put my, try to put my snow peas out now, basically now.
Brett: ah ah Go ahead and seed those.
Plant People: It's time. You can do it.
Brett: I'm going to wait and put the beet seeds out on around March 15th. um would Would you recommend that I do cucumbers as transplants or direct seeded?
Plant People: I like to do mine if it's in native soil, direct seeded, but the ah you cucumbers are one of those things you can do either way. But if you do transplanting, you got to be really gentle.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: With them, if I'm going to grow cucumber transplants, get an early start on those, I actually use peat cups for those because then I can put the whole cup in the ground as a homeowner. wouldn't necessarily recommend that commercially, but that way you don't have to try to force them out of their little growing container and risk damaging or even breaking the stalk off of cucumbers. cook Cucumbers, I prefer direct seeded.
Plant People: That's just a personal choice, but you can grow them as transplants and and get an early start on those.
Jessica : Yeah. So I always, i always grow minus transplants.
Plant People: Do you?
Jessica : Right. But different kind of, kind of different, uh, just in a regular, uh, like cell cell tray.
Plant People: how do you grow those Jessica just gently
Jessica : Right. And, um, you get them up there where they have, you know, a couple of those first leaves, those leaves, tree leaves on there.
Alexis: True leaves.
Plant People: the yeah
Jessica : yeah.
Plant People: ah leave
Jessica : but you're right they're a little more fragile popping them out but they'll get a nice nice nice root ball uh on them but don't start them too early because that's the thing like you gotta you gotta to yeah yeah right so they're something you can wait till much later to and then have a bigger plant to get out there and sooner earlier production off of them
Plant People: you learn to be careful with those when you work with them yeah oh yeah
Brett: I think another I'm breaking character yeah they they're very yeah fast transplantized
Plant People: They're warm season. like They still need to go out at that May date. So, yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: There's also some people who are super into planting tomatoes really deep so that like those hairs and, you know, other kind of ah ah structures can turn.
Alexis: Adventitious roots.
Brett: Yeah. The advantageous structure. I wasn't going to go go terminology here, but it is.
Alexis: it's a It's fun. It's a fun thing to know.
Plant People: He's a new Gardner, Alexis.
Brett: I mean, I mean, what did you say?
Plant People: Don't confuse him.
Brett: X-mantitious fit?
Alexis: Well, because it's like, okay, these roots are adventurous.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: They're going where no root has gone before, right?
Brett: um When they have an advantage, they will take it.
Alexis: And they're going up the they're going up the plant. So they're they're adventitious. I just think of them as adventurous.
Brett: Yeah.
Jessica : Yeah.
Brett: ah Okay. um Well, with cucumbers, that's not the case. Do not bury the stalk. It will rot and you they will die.
Jessica : Right.
Brett: um At least that's what I heard right on Reddit as I was doing this basic gardening research earlier.
Plant People: The place of all knowledge. Yes, absolutely.
Brett: Yeah. um Cool. So going to do cucumbers direct seed. going to try that this year. ah Tomatoes, I'm going to do as transplants, but I'm going to buy my transplants.
Plant People: Sounds good.
Brett: And then lettuce, we said I was going to direct seed.
Plant People: Yep. It's a, it's an easy win.
Brett: And I'm going maybe do it that as a tape, as a tape, ah seed tape.
Plant People: We're looking for those easy wins.
Brett: Is that what you called it?
Jessica : Yeah. The sea tape.
Brett: Anything else that I'm missing as far as my first foray into gardening? I know that there's, ah i did a lot of research and some work on soil prep and fertile fertility and soil testing and all of that ahead of time. And if if you're out there and you haven't done those things, you might think about going ahead and, should I go ahead and get a soil test if I didn't get one?
Plant People: If you haven't had one, it's it's time to get one.
Jessica : yeah Yeah, it doesn't hurt. Yeah.
Brett: Okay. I just didn't know how long it would be or if it would be able to.
Plant People: it Normally we allow pretty good lead time for that. If you wait until, let's say, April in Kentucky, what that means is if you're working through the extent your local extension office, ah you're going to have a pretty good lead time, sometimes upwards three to four weeks.
Plant People: It's not that we're dragging our feet. It's just we have very busy labs, and lot of they serve a lot of people, and they get really busy ah during the springtime of the year, especially.
Brett: There's a lot of people.
Jessica : a lot of people, yeah.
Brett: But if I didn't get one, I should go go ahead and get one, and even if it is late, or maybe I can't be optimal.
Plant People: so Go ahead and do it now.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, ahead and do it. Absolutely.
Brett: That way next year or in the fall, I'll be ready.
Plant People: Yeah. The information's always good to have that. And for home gardeners, we say, i don't know, what are you to say every three years or so? For a home gardener is a pretty good re interval to retake your soil test, especially if you're modifying soil pH.
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis: If it's a raised bed, I usually say more often just because those nutrients leach and change so rapidly. But but if yeah if it's in grounds, I prefer every other year.
Plant People: The profile is going to change in a raised bed every three to four weeks. Yeah.
Alexis: um But every three years you'll probably be fine if you've not had any you know crazy issues.
Jessica : Every year.
Plant People: And when...
Brett: and that's as as a horticulturist and soil head that's sort of your like i would you know every two years yeah
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: Yeah. And make sure as you are working with your local extension office, if you have a raised bed that has like, you know, peat based or potting soil in there, let them know that because it's a completely different type of test that they're going to do on that. It's not the same process as ah native soil.
Plant People: So it's more of a greenhouse kind of test.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Soiless medium, I guess. Soiless media.
Jessica : Two things i thought of that I always talk to people about when they first call and they're like, oh, hey, I'm going to start a new garden, which it seems like you've kind of already done your research on. Well, make sure that you're close to a water source, which I assume you are, because that is very important because nobody wants to haul buckets of water in 90 degree weather.
Jessica : When they're like, I'm going to put my garden like far away from my house, right? Because it's most likely going to fail, not to be downer about it, but watering, pest, all of that.
Plant People: No.
Jessica : But the other thing, and you've done your research about, is grow stuff that you actually like or like are going to eat, right? So i am not going to grow beets because I am not going to eat them, right?
Plant People: I'm going to do beads.
Jessica : So...
Brett: yeah You can buy the juice for cheaper than growing it. So why would you?
Jessica : Right.
Brett: Yeah.
Jessica : So why grow, like, even if some of these things look look really pretty and cool and, you know, just think about before you get started and overwhelmed with everything of like, what will my family actually eat? What will I actually use? You know, and then maybe, you know, the following year, try something that you've never experienced.
Jessica : you know, had before and see, maybe I will like this, but not, you know, do it. My other example i always give is you know, ghost pepper seeds, ghost pepper plants, like, like one plant will give you like over a hundred ghost peppers.
Jessica : So maybe don't, don't, maybe don't plant 25 of those plants or more speaking from experience.
Plant People: That's plenty of ghost peppers.
Brett: That's enough to haunt you.
Plant People: Yes. Very nice, Brett. Very nice.
Alexis: Yeah, and you don't need 15 tomato plants if you're not going to can tomatoes.
Plant People: There's only two people that's going to be eating in those fresh.
Alexis: Yeah.
Jessica : Right.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: yeah
Brett: Well, one, some upper um experienced person I was talking to recommended to me to, to pick like five to eight things and just try those and not, cause I had, I had originally, I had a list of like 25 things that I wanted to grow.
Brett: And they all had different requirements and everything. And so I narrowed it down to a few just to see if I can grow those. And then I think I'm going to plan to expand from there. Does that sound reasonable?
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: start simple. It's what is a kiss method kind of as you're starting out, keep it simple.
Jessica : Yep, sounds good. but
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Keep it simple. What, Ray?
Plant People: Keep it simple, silly.
Brett: Oh, how did you, how could you tell I was silly?
Plant People: So, yeah.
Alexis: Short stack.
Plant People: Yeah. You know that, but that is, that is a trick is ah and when I'm planning a garden in the the winter and I have cabin fever, I'm ready to go as a new gardener. Um, And then when it gets to 104 degrees in July, my enthusiasm level is that I'm a different person in July than I was in March and April.
Alexis: yeah
Plant People: pro So I'm a different person, okay? I'm a different person. ah Having worked with a lot of community gardens, I see that you know that that is a learning curve. you know If you're truly a new gardener,
Plant People: Take into account the seasons, take into account your ability and your zone, and just be realistic as far as starting out. If in doubt, start a little smaller. ah We tend to overestimate our ability to manage things like water and weeds and things and all the factors and care that go into a garden, especially if you have a shiny new, let's say, garden tiller that you just want to use.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And you go out there and plant your 10,000 square foot garden, and then you realize, what have I done?
Alexis: I'm
Plant People: I don't want you to go through that regret.
Alexis: i'm
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: I'm going to post on the Instagram. I have i found a um found it. It's from a couple years ago, but I did a just like an infographic on, I called it containers for the couple.
Alexis: So if you just wanted to grow in containers, you could this would translate to in-ground as well. But for bush beans, peppers, lettuce, tomato, and zucchini, all of those can be grown in containers. So I tell you how many for what size container and how many of those plants per person.
Jessica : you
Alexis: And so, you know, an example is like, you if you if you are the type of people who like to eat vegetables specifically, um then you would maybe want one tomato purple one tomato plant per person, but you only need one zucchini plant um for both people most of the time.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: But i I'll post that on there just in case anybody
Brett: One zucchini plant per city block.
Alexis: Per city block.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Your neighbors for your neighbors, your neighborhood, whatever.
Alexis: Yeah. ah
Brett: Now, Alexis, i want to I want to find that content, but you said, where was i gonna or am I going to find it?
Alexis: You're going to find that on our Instagram at hort culture podcast.
Jessica : Thank you.
Brett: Instagram. Okay, just followed you.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah. So you, well, I'll, I'll post on there. I need to rework it a little bit, but yeah.
Brett: Cool. Well, I hope this episode was kind of like a fun, different, different way of doing this.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: man
Brett: And, you know, if we hated it, that's fine. If we loved it, always leave them wanting more.
Plant People: I like the topic because every year thing that keeps me interested in gardening and growing things is no two seasons are the same. You will have failures. No matter how much, you know, you will have failures because you will never control all the factors that grow that goes into growing a living thing.
Plant People: You just can't control that. And I guess that keeps me interested. Personally, it's the challenge of having a good year and what goes into that. So.
Brett: and I know that we played up the the bit of it, but the reality is you could go and have a conversation like this with your extension agent, talk to them about this kind of stuff. And um hopefully.
Alexis: Get a free ID 128 if you're the type of person who likes it like physically in your hands. I'm not judging you.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: I'm one of them.
Jessica : it's ah It's a nice book, actually, not just a print off.
Alexis: Yep.
Brett: We'll still sign those for people. that, or is that just me?
Alexis: yeah
Plant People: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Brett: Okay, cool.
Alexis: um
Plant People: I do it in big floor riding too. Very, very dominant.
Brett: Guy catcher. I feel less special now, but that's good that everybody else gets to.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I tell you, that's okay.
Alexis: But yes, you if you're in Kentucky, you can go to your county extension office because you have one.
Plant People: We'll talk later.
Alexis: they
Brett: All 120 counties.
Alexis: All 120 of you do.
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis: and you can go get that. Or again, you can find that online if you're the type person who likes to be able to look at it on your phone, wherever you're at, and ask them questions. So um ID 128 will put a link down in that in the show notes about that one.
Jessica : you
Alexis: And we already talked about what you can find us on Instagram. You can leave us if you liked, if you liked our bit, if you liked, you like Brett's, Brett's bit, um you know, let us know and leave us a review.
Plant People: let us
Alexis: Give us some stars helps people find us. I know it feels weird. It always feels weird to me um asking you all to do that because you know, I feel like a little bit of a, you know, used, you know, car salesman or something, but
Brett: It's the least they could do for us, frankly, Alexis.
Plant People: On it, Brett.
Brett: We just carried a bit for 53 minutes.
Plant People: He just stayed in character for 53 minutes.
Alexis: Killing it, killing it. But yes, please so leave us a review. it helps other people find us.
Jessica : you
Alexis: And we've had some really great feedback from you guys. We really appreciate that. You can also find our email down there in the show notes. If you all have questions, ah want to find something specifically, just want to tell us we're great.
Alexis: All of those are welcome. If you don't want to tell us we're great. ah We'll give you a different email address to contact um and we'll go from there. But we appreciate you guys joining us today. and we hope you'll join us next time.
Alexis: Have a great one.
