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3-year Average Weekly Prices at Kentucky Farmers Markets: 2022-2024
53 Plays2 days ago
In this episode of the Hort Culture podcast, our very own co-host Brett Wolff dives into the key findings and insights from his fact sheet, "3-Year Average Weekly Prices at Kentucky Farmers Markets: 2022-2024." He discusses the importance of understanding price trends for both farmers and consumers, highlighting the factors that influence weekly price fluctuations at Kentucky farmers markets. Brett also shares practical tips for farmers on how to utilize this data to make informed decisions about pricing their products and for consumers on how to navigate the market to find the best deals.
3-year Average Weekly Prices at Kentucky Farmers Markets: 2022-2024
Center for Crop Diversification Price Reports
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@l.uky.edu
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Transcript
Endless January and Winter Preparations
00:00:16
Alexis
Hey peeps, how's your 2025 rocking?
00:00:21
Plant People
It's still January from the 30th week of January.
00:00:21
Jessica
would
00:00:25
Jessica
January, that will never end. It's been so cold.
00:00:27
Plant People
I'm tired of dirty snow. That's where I'm at right now.
00:00:30
Alexis
m
00:00:30
Jessica
Yeah.
00:00:30
Brett
dirty dirty dirty snow
00:00:30
Jessica
ah
00:00:32
Alexis
It's weird how like January takes forever, but then all of a sudden we'll be like, so it's September and ah like how
00:00:38
Plant People
Yes, yes.
00:00:40
Brett
Time to get those fall crops on the ground.
00:00:42
Alexis
yeah
00:00:42
Plant People
That's it. You know, I always say it's just January.
Gardening Tips and Challenges
00:00:45
Plant People
I've got a little time to get my seating, you know, trays in for like, especially cool season crops. I always miss that window. I always miss if I'm going to grow a for few transplants.
00:00:51
Alexis
and
00:00:54
Alexis
February 1st is go time, baby. Let's go.
00:00:56
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:56
Brett
Yeah, I've got my I've got I've tried so I'm trying out a new thing this year.
00:00:56
Jessica
Yeah.
00:00:56
Alexis
um
00:00:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:01:01
Brett
um I'm trying out a bonsai but this would work for gardens to a bonsai reminder set up in my phone like a pre pre scheduled reminders for the whole season that I'm having repeat every year, you know, first
00:01:09
Jessica
Oh.
00:01:10
Plant People
Oh, nice.
00:01:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:01:16
Brett
first sunday in or yeah first Sunday in January every year or you know whatever. I'm going to see how it works. We don't know because there's there's different times of the year where you do different interventions as far as pruning or repotting or any of that kind of fun stuff.
00:01:26
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:01:26
Plant People
Mm hmm.
00:01:29
Brett
So I have mine that most of them are are just around the bend as far as starting some new seeds and thinking about repotting. So that's an exciting time.
00:01:39
Plant People
Reminders are a good thing.
00:01:40
Brett
Yeah.
00:01:40
Jessica
It is.
00:01:41
Plant People
That's a very good thing.
00:01:41
Alexis
I just like reorganized the greenhouse bench for like things that really didn't need bottom heat, but they were already on the like heat mats or whatever, because seed starting for me starts next week, the first week of February.
00:01:53
Alexis
So um for those cool season things.
00:01:53
Jessica
Right.
00:01:56
Alexis
So I'm like, okay, I need to actually like, how many bales of soil do I have and start.
00:02:02
Jessica
We strategically placed our giant order of vegetable seeds, but had it placed early and it was like, please don't ship it until last yeah the last week of January.
00:02:06
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:12
Alexis
Please don't.
00:02:14
Jessica
So nobody like jumps the gun right to like want to start things early.
00:02:16
Alexis
Uh.
00:02:19
Jessica
But then at the same time, we were like, man, we really got to start those hot peppers earlier.
00:02:21
Alexis
Uh.
00:02:23
Jessica
Because those things, those scorpions, ghosts, all of those guys as Carolina Reapers take forever.
00:02:28
Plant People
Do they take a longer time to germinate?
00:02:30
Alexis
ah
00:02:31
Jessica
So they are the first thing that we will seed.
00:02:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:33
Brett
I've always had had really long experiences of very long, not only germination, but then even growth.
00:02:41
Jessica
Yes.
00:02:41
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:41
Brett
It just takes for, you feel like they've been in the greenhouse for like a year by the time you, and you've put out, you're like putting everything else out and yeah.
00:02:45
Jessica
um
00:02:45
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:49
Alexis
Don't ever grow Lizzianthus then, both of you. It is, it will haunt your dreams.
00:02:55
Jessica
Oh.
00:02:55
Alexis
It takes so long. It's like, it's like six to eight weeks just to germinate, like just to germinate.
00:03:00
Jessica
What?
00:03:00
Brett
Oh gosh.
00:03:02
Alexis
And then.
00:03:02
Brett
That's so Ah, man.
00:03:03
Jessica
Oh, that would drive me crazy. Cause I don't want to keep coming and check in and checking and be like, we can do anything.
00:03:04
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:03:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:07
Alexis
Yep. So like if I wanted to put them in and say like the first week of April, cause like I've, I've seated them before. And if I wanted to put them in, say the first week of April, I would have had to start them in December for them to be like barely big enough to go in the ground.
00:03:21
Alexis
Like, like not beautiful plants, like just big enough to go in the ground.
00:03:23
Jessica
Wow.
00:03:25
Brett
Yeah, we'll never do that.
00:03:26
Alexis
Uh-huh. It's so shoutout shout out, shout out to Lizzie growers.
00:03:27
Brett
Sorry.
00:03:28
Jessica
Yeah. The hot peppers are.
00:03:32
Jessica
I'll just take the hot peppers, at least they'll like germinate and pop up, but then they just take forever after that.
00:03:35
Alexis
yeah You know they're alive.
00:03:37
Jessica
You know, they're alive at least.
00:03:39
Alexis
Yeah, they're not just like a film of green ah growing on the soil surface.
00:03:43
Brett
My plants are little in their seeds.
00:03:48
Brett
It always freaks me out to like, like manage the water because I feel like I'm like, I want to water you but I don't want you to be too wet.
00:03:53
Jessica
What if I love you too much?
00:03:53
Alexis
and
00:03:54
Plant People
Mm.
00:03:56
Brett
But what if like that.
00:03:58
Alexis
Oh, you know what? My, you probably already do this, but, uh, vermiculite just sprinkled over the top is so great for really small seeds.
00:04:02
Plant People
Yeah. Mm.
00:04:07
Alexis
Cause it keeps that moisture like right there at the surface level and you don't overdo it. So that's my, that's been really helpful for me with like Snapdragon seeds that are just like dust.
00:04:16
Brett
Um, vermiculite great, great in South great and salads as well.
00:04:17
Jessica
Hmm.
00:04:17
Alexis
Um, vermiculite sprinkle, like a fine.
00:04:19
Plant People
And just don't get paralot confused with vermiculite. So yeah, don't get those two things confused or put in salad.
00:04:25
Alexis
Yeah, no.
00:04:25
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:25
Brett
Okay. Yeah. Don't eat that.
00:04:27
Alexis
Don't eat it. No, it is a naturally a occurring substance. It is Omri approved.
00:04:31
Plant People
Paralot will not have the same effect if you do that over the top of your seeds.
00:04:31
Brett
Yeah.
00:04:34
Jessica
No.
00:04:34
Alexis
No.
00:04:35
Plant People
So the two are, you know, it's lighter in color, but do not get them confused.
00:04:37
Alexis
Are indeed different.
00:04:40
Plant People
They do different things.
00:04:42
Brett
How did you all make it through the
Winter Weather Impacts on Farming
00:04:44
Brett
cold? Any impact?
00:04:46
Plant People
Here in Kentucky, it has been we we had snow just for those of you that may not be here in Kentucky and central Kentucky.
00:04:47
Jessica
um
00:04:51
Plant People
I know ah most of Kentucky's had a lot of snow, but the snow has stuck around for weeks now. So.
00:04:56
Brett
More snow and more staying power than we're used to.
00:04:58
Plant People
And in in cold weather.
00:04:58
Jessica
We, down our way, ah speaking for Alexis and myself, we had a lot of ice. Like we had, we had a lot of snow.
00:05:05
Alexis
Yeah.
00:05:07
Jessica
Then we got a layer of ice and then we got more snow on top of that.
00:05:08
Plant People
Yeah.
00:05:10
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:05:11
Jessica
So that was not fun.
00:05:13
Alexis
The sandwich effect was weird. Yeah. Usually it's like ice is either all the way at the bottom or all the way on top.
00:05:16
Plant People
Yeah.
00:05:18
Alexis
The fact that we got so much snow on top of it was, was unusual.
00:05:22
Plant People
Then if you drove over top of that sandwich mix, it formed ah something, ah a plate of steel or rock that would not melt.
00:05:26
Alexis
Hard like rock.
00:05:26
Jessica
Yes.
00:05:29
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:30
Plant People
And I finally took it like a steel bar out and chipped it away in four inch sections off of our driveway. We have a small driveway and and it took forever and it's still laying in piles outside and it's very slow to melt.
00:05:36
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:05:42
Jessica
Yeah.
00:05:42
Alexis
Yeah.
00:05:43
Plant People
Very slow.
00:05:43
Jessica
it i mean As of right now, plant-wise, I think everything is okay. I will say for any of you those who you know are plant lovers but also may have some livestock on the side as well, um chore time greatly increased by an extra at least two hours you know to feed everything during that weather.
00:06:01
Alexis
Oh yeah.
00:06:01
Plant People
um Yeah.
00:06:05
Jessica
so it was like better with, I guess, the snow, but now we're like in that lovely period and in right Ray knows what I'm talking about, mud season.
00:06:10
Alexis
Mud.
00:06:14
Jessica
um So.
00:06:15
Alexis
But.
00:06:16
Plant People
and And when it's been frozen for the longer it seems like it's been frozen, the more it's actually frozen to a depth, the worse it's going to be when it finally unthaws.
00:06:21
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:06:25
Plant People
And that's at a point in time when four wheel drive vehicles, tractors, trucks, whatever, don't mean a whole lot because they will all sink to the axles and stop forward momentum.
00:06:31
Jessica
Right. Right.
00:06:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:35
Alexis
m
00:06:35
Jessica
It was like, it was like, it was harder. Like once all the snow and everything stopped for like making the tractor around versus like when it was happening, like when you would think it would be like, Oh, it must be really difficult to get out there and feed hay at that time.
00:06:49
Jessica
But it was like the couple of days afterwards. That's when it was harder to get out and go down the driveway and you know, those things.
00:06:54
Plant People
yeah
00:06:57
Alexis
Yeah.
00:06:57
Jessica
But, but we made it through, right? Because the sun is shining and it's actually like going to be like 50. And we're all going to get excited and want to plant things.
00:07:06
Alexis
And then the rain's gonna come and more, it's gonna be even muddier than it was before.
00:07:11
Jessica
Right. I'm just trying to be like, it's filling the ponds up.
00:07:14
Plant People
The reserves.
00:07:15
Jessica
That's a good thing, right?
00:07:15
Alexis
Yes, totally.
00:07:16
Jessica
It's filling the ponds up.
00:07:17
Alexis
We're getting in some deep, you know, water penetration. The trees are going to be happy. Everybody's.
00:07:22
Jessica
That's right.
00:07:23
Alexis
Yeah, it has been a really, I feel like a really sunny winter so far, like even though we've had a lot of precipitation, which is not super usual.
00:07:27
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:07:30
Alexis
And like the sun is what, I don't know, makes it better. Like I can work with the cold, but the gloom is can, you know, brings on the the seasonal depression.
00:07:35
Jessica
Yep.
00:07:39
Plant People
The days are short.
00:07:39
Alexis
So the sun has been nice.
00:07:40
Plant People
Yeah. And if they're gloomy and short, I feel like that, yeah, it's never ending, but the days are getting longer now about 20, 30 months a day.
00:07:44
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:47
Jessica
They are getting longer.
00:07:47
Alexis
It's good for starting plants when we have that much sun.
00:07:49
Plant People
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:07:51
Alexis
So.
00:07:51
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:07:52
Brett
Yeah, Alexis, and now we're talking about shoveling some snow into structures to just get a little bit of that moisture inside.
00:08:00
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:08:00
Plant People
Mmhmm.
00:08:00
Brett
ah You know, I have the bonsai and other things in pots that they don't need a ton of water in the winter, but a little bit to kind of keep things moist and I have them under cover and protected.
00:08:10
Brett
And so as a result, ah and they you know i they don't get that snow layered for insulation or anything else.
00:08:15
Alexis
Mhm.
00:08:17
Brett
so i've and throwing stuff in, but it's it was weird because it was it got so cold for a little while, um like down into single digit zero, maybe even a little sub zero around here.
00:08:22
Alexis
Mhm.
00:08:22
Jessica
Mmhmm.
00:08:25
Alexis
Mhm.
00:08:29
Brett
I don't know. It's just just been a strange, i was I was really worried about, because with the ice about losing power, but around here, the a lot of trees the lot of the trees that are aging out and that are in trouble got knocked out by other aberrant weather events over the last three years.
00:08:46
Brett
and Knocked out power for four days when it was nice outside. So luckily when it was freezing cold, we didn't ever lose power, which was very lucky.
00:08:53
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:08:56
Alexis
Yeah, we found out that negative five was the cut off for our pipes. So ah negative five, they freeze.
00:09:04
Brett
Okay.
00:09:04
Alexis
So now we know.
00:09:05
Jessica
yeah Now we know.
00:09:06
Alexis
Now we know.
00:09:07
Plant People
I don't want to ask, how do you know that?
00:09:07
Alexis
Well, the main line does. So yeah, the main line does.
00:09:10
Plant People
And it sounds like you know that the hard way.
00:09:13
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:14
Jessica
Unfortunately, right?
00:09:15
Alexis
Right.
00:09:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:09:15
Jessica
It's a little
00:09:16
Alexis
Yeah. Luckily. Yeah. We got it on in the same day, but, uh, it was, it was a little sketchy there for a while, but the, but it was fine because it was just the one to the house, the ones to the barn, um, and the tunnels and stuff still had water.
00:09:28
Alexis
So I just like lugged water into the house. It's usually the opposite. Uh, you're looking water to the barn, but yes, that was fortunate. But anyways, I think I've said, but 4
Farmer's Market Preparations and Regulations
00:09:39
Alexis
,000 times and no longer has any meaning.
00:09:39
Brett
all all of this All of this winter activity and buildup and anticipation, it's headed somewhere, right?
00:09:50
Plant People
It's got to head somewhere.
00:09:51
Alexis
Plants.
00:09:51
Plant People
So it's got to play.
00:09:52
Jessica
Yeah, you know, yeah, it's kind of like um
00:09:53
Brett
play points yeah
00:09:53
Plant People
It always comes back to plants.
00:09:54
Alexis
since
00:09:55
Plant People
It always does. Yeah, eventually, eventually.
00:09:59
Jessica
winter chore time, planning, plants, all of that, getting ready for the farmer's markets. That's what I've, I've been doing in this cold winter weather because that's the time to do it.
00:10:08
Alexis
business
00:10:11
Jessica
And I also don't want to be outside.
00:10:13
Alexis
Applications are yeah yeah exactly making excuses to actually do desk work.
00:10:14
Jessica
So yeah. ah Yeah. Yeah. Filling out farmer's market applications and like gathering all the info that goes with them, right?
00:10:26
Jessica
You're like Kentucky proud stuff, maybe your micro processing license, all of those fun things.
00:10:30
Plant People
I always forget like ah how much stuff there is, and I know some of you guys are are you know growers personally, but ah we just had our annual meeting. um in the county that I'm in. And I forget that there's so much stuff. And I was like, well, where am I going to talk about this year? And I've got a little checklist. Jessica's helped me develop that over time. But I added to it, and I kept added to and and i kept adding to it. And I was like, I dominated the meeting with just basic updates for new diseases or regulatory things you have to do or microprocessor things or all the things. There's a lot to get ready for in farmers markets here in Kentucky. So this is a great time to kind of get that started if you've not already got started on that.
00:11:12
Plant People
Lots of things going on, but.
00:11:13
Alexis
Farmers market. So ah one thing that CCD does and works a lot with Center for Crop Firstification, which is where Brett and I work, ah is we do a lot with farmers market. And so if any of you are interested in farmers market as it of it becoming you know something you want to get into, whether or not it's the right market for you,
00:11:35
Alexis
Uh, just what are all the things that go along with it? We do have a lot of resources on our website. One of them we're going to talk about today that is, uh, can be particularly helpful when you're planning your summer and what cashflow could look like, might look like.
00:11:52
Alexis
And Brett has done, Brett, you've been doing this for like price, these price reports and, um, AOL over 80 years.
00:11:57
Brett
for well over 80 years.
00:12:00
Plant People
80 years.
00:12:00
Brett
Or no, no, ah like 10 years. Yeah. So we've been, I've been doing it since 20, since 2015. But we, the CCD has been collecting price reports from farmers markets and from produce auctions dating back to like 2004.
00:12:17
Brett
In the, there if you aren't familiar, either, either you're from Kentucky or from somewhere else, maybe and you aren't familiar. there was this thing that happened called the tobacco master settlement agreement that essentially it was a legal action between a lot of parties and it, but the effect that it had on agriculture in large part was that it, it was going to mean that there was going to be less tobacco produced in the state of Kentucky. And that was a huge part of the profitability and the whole, the whole culture, everything of farms in Kentucky. And so as a result, um,
00:12:53
Brett
there was either going to have to be something to theoretically replace or offset tobacco. There's many people in agriculture who are going to try to figure out new alternatives. And so the organization that we work with, the Center for Crop Diversification, is actually celebrating its 25th anniversary, which the 25 years dates back to a couple of years after, ah our we got our start a couple of years after that that um the tobacco settlement.
00:13:18
Alexis
Settlement.
00:13:19
Brett
Yeah. And there's a lot of programs in Kentucky that, that's kind of start at that point. And so as we're looking back on these price reports, which were started in 2004, we're celebrating this 25th year.
00:13:29
Brett
Uh, we have ah generated over the last few years, these retrospective publications to kind of compare average prices, um, over three year periods. As you know, one year might be crazy.
00:13:41
Brett
There might be something about it, but there's a drought or there's a, hurricane that makes its way inland, hypothetically, or something else happens that affects things.
00:13:48
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:13:50
Brett
So we try to use it a three-year average to um just buffer some of those differences to see see how things are changing across time. And so we have a new publication as of ah December, I guess, which is called the three-year average weekly prices at Kentucky's farmers markets, 2022 to 2024 version.
00:14:13
Brett
um not Taylor's version, but 2022 to 2024 version. And um yeah, so that we put these together because ah agents and producers as well as they're useful, it gives a sense of how things are changing and shifting and whether or not
00:14:20
Plant People
world here.
00:14:29
Brett
Stuff at my market's been really expensive or it feels like prices are coming down at my market.
00:14:32
Alexis
who
00:14:32
Brett
Is that true you know elsewhere? It gives a little bit of ah a sense of the the broader marketplace and some trends that are happening. and so we We released that back in December. We've got a couple of short articles to that orient you to um what how How you might use it what you might think about it but also and also i have some some data here so what do you all how do you all interact with farmers markets is this and and the pricing thing is this something new comes up in the offices.
00:14:59
Plant People
Well, we used this report ah actually just last night at our excuse me ah farmer's market meeting and went over some of the the basic trends and and got a lot of questions that I said, well, let me get back to you after we do this podcast episode and I get to talk to Brad a little bit more.
00:15:17
Plant People
But the the information in this report is very well laid out. And I know that that I saw market members pouring through the data. And that sparked a lot of conversation during our annual farmer's market meeting. And I guess what they were seeing on paper kind of jived with what they saw happening in the real world. you know Number one, they recognize that there has been ah you know big swings in prices over the last few years you know due to, I'm sure, a variety of factors. but They loved it. They found it very interesting and and I use a lot of Center for Crop Diversification publications with our farmers market. You guys have really great just ongoing through kind of seasonal price reports and then you have these historic price reports. But sparked a lot of great conversation at the market among growers um ah during that meeting.
00:16:07
Plant People
And I don't know, I guess we would be more of a rural market, you know, Bourbon County and where our markets located in Paris, Kentucky is a small. It's not really a population center, smaller population. But one of the interesting things that they were looking at our growers is they really noticed that you guys broke down.
00:16:24
Plant People
you know, and differentiated between urban and rural markets. And they just found that fascinating. They kind of always knew that sometimes you could fetch a higher price at the urban markets, but they loved seeing that data quantified it on paper.
00:16:37
Plant People
They loved it. They really liked it.
00:16:38
Brett
Yeah, that's the variability of of the rural spaces and and the prices there and in our urban markets. It factors into a lot of different conversations. I mean, there's conversations about cost of living and in rural and urban spaces and and wages in those places.
00:16:55
Brett
But there's also discussions of is it worth it for me to drive an hour and a half to get to an urban area?
00:17:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:00
Alexis
isn't it
00:17:01
Jessica
Right?
00:17:02
Plant People
that That's the conversation.
00:17:02
Jessica
Yep.
00:17:02
Brett
Is it worth it?
00:17:03
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:04
Brett
Yeah.
00:17:04
Plant People
We're about 20 minutes from a more urban market.
00:17:04
Jessica
Yep.
00:17:07
Plant People
So that's why they found it so interesting. Some of our market members were, you know, we're selling at our local rural market, but they also have access to fairly close by with, you know, within 20 minutes, ah urban market.
00:17:19
Plant People
So they found it really interesting,
Market Pricing Strategies and Data Usage
00:17:21
Plant People
Brett.
00:17:21
Brett
Yeah, well, and the thing is too, once you show up to that urban market, you may be asked to pay a really high fee in order to set up there.
00:17:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:30
Jessica
Yep.
00:17:30
Brett
And I mean, we're talking, there's there's urban markets that we have where the the whole fee for the whole year might be $0, it might be $25, it might be, you know, some of these rural markets, they're they're just trying to get vendors there, so they're not really in a position to charge.
00:17:32
Jessica
Yep.
00:17:43
Jessica
Right.
00:17:44
Brett
And then you have urban markets where it can be thousands of dollars to set up for the whole, you know,
00:17:48
Jessica
Waitlist.
00:17:48
Plant People
and waiting list, yeah, wait list.
00:17:49
Jessica
Waitlist. Yeah.
00:17:50
Brett
wait-listed politics, all the other fun things that are associated with.
00:17:50
Jessica
Waitlist to get in. Additional gate fees, percentages on what you make a month.
00:17:55
Brett
Yeah.
00:17:58
Brett
Yeah.
00:17:58
Brett
What's your take? What's your take on that stuff, Jessica?
00:17:58
Jessica
Right.
00:18:00
Jessica
ah Well on your on the information you just are kind of like what Ray said like for work-wise like that's a I provide this information is a good starting point for people who are new to markets because they never know what to actually charge and it's also good for those more experienced people as well um who are thinking about bumping up to maybe that urban market or It kind of can be used sometimes where people are like, oh, maybe I am charging a little too much for our area.
00:18:29
Jessica
And that's why I'm not moving products compared to you know some other vendors.
00:18:30
Alexis
Hmm hmm.
00:18:34
Jessica
Personally, I find this information really fascinating and interesting because I've been doing markets for about 14 years now. My husband and I have. So it's really neat to see the change over time with the market prices.
00:18:48
Jessica
um I've always, same thing as Ray mentioned, value that urban versus rural and um being able to you know provide that to growers to see how they should balance their prices. right and um Yeah, just with the markets, like you said, if you go into these urban markets, a lot of our smaller markets have like a one-time fee at the beginning of the year. And so not as much of an input cost to it. So if you're not bringing home a ton, that might be okay. But then ah these larger markets have a ah lot more inputs into them to be involved, but you're hoping for
00:19:29
Jessica
a more trafficked market, you know you're able to ask for those higher prices that kind of go along with it.
00:19:37
Alexis
Yeah. I could also see this being a useful tool for someone who maybe wants to expand what they grow. And so, you know, looking at, again, these are these are averages, you should always, in you know, in theory, we tell you that you should know your own numbers.
00:19:52
Alexis
But, you know, if you've never grown garlic before, um but you can kind of say, all right, it'll be about this much to get the bulbs in. And let's just say it'll take me an hour to plant.
00:20:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:02
Alexis
You know, you're kind of going through these things. but you don't know how much you're going to get for it. It can be nice to have these averages just to give you a place to start and whether or not it's worth it to grow garlic or lettuce.
00:20:09
Jessica
Mmhmm.
00:20:14
Alexis
And you might say, I'm not going to get a high end enough price to warrant ah me purchasing this in my time to take to grow it. And I think that can be really, really helpful for people who are wanting to ah expand their production ah and what that might look like.
00:20:31
Brett
So I'm i'm wanting to to write a publication, maybe a couple out of some of the these data, because we now have we now have three year averages going all the way back to 2016. And so just to to put a little point on the the conversation about the urban rural and that decision making in this report, just taking a look at these averages in 2022,
00:20:56
Brett
On average, urban prices were 35% higher than rural prices.
00:21:02
Alexis
crazy.
00:21:03
Brett
That number in 2023 jumped to 39.6%, almost 40%. And then we saw in 2024, actually, the number came back came down a little bit back to 31%.
00:21:13
Brett
But in any case, you're talking about almost a third higher prices. And in some cases, for some commodities or for some product crops and products, that difference is greater and some that's lower, obviously.
00:21:24
Brett
Um, but it is kind of, uh, yeah, it's, it's expected, but when you see that type of number put on it, it's, it's pretty staggering, honestly.
00:21:31
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:21:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:34
Alexis
Game changing, yeah.
00:21:34
Jessica
Yep.
00:21:35
Brett
Yeah.
00:21:35
Plant People
There are some interesting sub trends there and it kind of maybe speaks maybe you could help me out Brett kind of speaks to that what you just you know some of the statistics you just threw out there is that I was looking at one thing that you had published and kind of pushed out to this and it was really interesting that on this latest price report the average price increased 3.5 percent in urban markets, but the average price increased 5.3% in rural markets.
00:22:01
Plant People
So a larger increase in rural markets. What do you attribute that to? A price correction or what's going on there? Is there any inferences you can make from that? and Yeah.
00:22:10
Brett
Yeah, hard to say, but the the thing that you're pointing out there that I really like is that the the gap between urban and rural was closing more as a factor of rural prices increase or rural markets increasing their prices than it was about urban prices decreasing.
00:22:22
Plant People
Meeting a little bit. Yes.
00:22:26
Brett
So the city slickers didn't get their stuff any cheaper. The rural markets were starting to just charge a little bit more for their product. I think I would love to believe that some portion of that 5.3% is the result of people like us out there telling people to really think about how they're pricing their products.
00:22:42
Plant People
Input cost, yeah.
00:22:43
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:22:43
Brett
Think about it. And yeah and and and sometimes maybe the the realities of the spikes in input costs in 2022 and 2023 didn't really come home to roost until you know this year.
00:22:53
Jessica
Right.
00:22:54
Brett
ah you know it's it's hard That one's hard to to know. I think it also could be that there's maybe some more savvy business people coming into some of our rural markets who are pushing that those prices up.
00:23:06
Brett
Um, but yeah, I think there's a number of different plausible Hypotheses, uh plausible guesses as to why that might be But it was good to see that it wasn't just that urban markets have crashed and that's why there's a smaller gap Right all of it's all of it's because of us
00:23:09
Plant People
Yeah.
00:23:21
Plant People
Yeah, no, it did it didn't seem to indicate that. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. Pretty interesting.
00:23:25
Jessica
I think people are utilizing your resources.
00:23:30
Jessica
it's so it's like oh right But serious.
00:23:30
Plant People
Maybe.
00:23:32
Plant People
and in
00:23:33
Alexis
You're welcome.
00:23:35
Jessica
In these smaller markets, it's like opening their eyes of what they could potentially ask you know for their product because they're growing a great product as well, just as they are you know the urban markets.
00:23:47
Jessica
so
00:23:47
Brett
Yeah, well, you bring up you bring up a good point um about the ability to have conversations and the role that data can that from a third party who really isn't involved can play in these groups.
00:23:48
Plant People
And I'll and
00:23:58
Jessica
Yes.
00:24:00
Brett
And it's something that I always encourage people. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of this one particular example that I'll share here. But um it It's an opportunity to to have a conversation that's informed. And I found at times there are some people in the group who are really resistant to changing prices. ah There's some that are really adamant that we should be. And um if you if you aren't familiar with farmer's market dynamics, there's a lot of them who collectively discuss their prices and they discuss
00:24:31
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:24:31
Brett
you know let's Let's try to retain the maintain the value um of and the profitability of everyone by not selling stuff below cost or so cheap.
00:24:41
Jessica
Right.
00:24:42
Brett
and But there's a lot of anxiety too about raising prices too much. And I have this you know example from one of our reporters who um she was talking about green onions.
00:24:52
Brett
This is a number of years ago now, but she's talking about green onions. And she said that they had been selling green onions at their market for a dollar a bunch since, you know ah I don't know what, the beginning, or for for at least the several years, as long as she'd been around.
00:25:04
Alexis
the Donna time.
00:25:08
Brett
And they wanted to, think about raising their prices, but people were super you know nervous about it. and so She goes to the reports, she kind of points out, look, everywhere in the state, even these markets that are kind of comparable to us, these urban markets are sorry these rural markets, ah everywhere is selling them for at least $2 a bunch. We are giving this product away So having that data to point to instead of just vibes and just sort of arguing, you know, like, I just, I saw my cousin said, um, allowed for them.
00:25:40
Brett
And they all, they, what they did that next week was they charged $2 a bunch and everybody still sold out. And.
00:25:47
Jessica
Right.
00:25:48
Brett
They got this so they made twice as much money on that just that little change and they probably could charge more than that but.
00:25:49
Alexis
They doubled their money, yeah.
00:25:50
Jessica
Yeah.
00:25:54
Alexis
this
00:25:54
Brett
um and so that Those types of and and i've had similar conversations where you have either new people coming into the group or there's just an ongoing skism that has different opinions about profitability and different or is some people are.
00:26:10
Brett
If you have folks in the market who are more on the hobby side versus more on the professional side um whatever those distinctions mean.
00:26:14
Alexis
Yep.
00:26:17
Brett
it can be difficult to to have that conversation. And so, yeah, I'm i'm hopeful that this these data do inform ah some some good decision-making.
00:26:28
Plant People
Well, I really like the, and maybe we should just deliberately visit this, but at the beginning of this report, I like the way that you guys laid out, Brett, how to use this document.
00:26:39
Plant People
It's not a prescription, and you guys have sort of been talking about that this whole time on this episode, but it's really not a prescription of what you should charge.
00:26:40
Jessica
Thank you.
00:26:48
Plant People
It sort of lays out the do's and don'ts of how to use the document because what it boils down to is, you know, you have to make a lot of individual considerations based on your situations. But it's real explicit about that and the trends that are contained in there and, you know, that points to the fact that, yeah, you do have to.
00:27:06
Plant People
no matter what, know your own input cost and you know how far you are from markets or whatever, all the variables that you know your market has. And they picked up on that last night because they started making comments. I heard someone yell across the room. It says, hey, that says how not to use this report. And mom like they said, that's not a to-do list. And one person yelled across the room. At one point, there's a bulleted list.
00:27:29
Plant People
And they were like, no, no, you're using it wrong. And I was sort of cracking up. Yeah. And they were like, Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:27:34
Alexis
That's awesome
00:27:35
Plant People
We see how to use this report.
00:27:37
Brett
Oh, the how-to use.
00:27:38
Plant People
ah Yeah. The how to use, but I was ah kind of laughing, but they did pick up on that. And hopefully, you know, that, that does aid people when they use these documents, because I know that all this data that you guys put together and all the interpretations can be tricky, but ah very interesting.
00:27:54
Brett
Well, yeah, the ah the reality is that the the data, these data that come from farmers markets is tricky to collect. It's tricky to pull together. It's tricky to analyze. Everybody, you know we we preach um diversification. I'm sorry, and but we do preach diversification, but we also preach differentiation of your product. you know Tell me the story of why this bean is special.
00:28:20
Brett
And so at your farmer's market stand, you say, this is my grandma, Thelma's 12th generation heirloom bean that was brought here you know from Ireland and blah, blah, blah, all these things.
00:28:28
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:28:34
Brett
And and that's why it's an extra 50 cents per pound. And i'm as ah on the marketing side, I'm like, yes, please do that. If your customer cares about that, amazing, amazing work.
00:28:45
Brett
But when it comes to a farmer's market price reporting, we have like, I don't know, 35 characters to describe what an item is, what size it is, et cetera.
00:28:51
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:28:52
Plant People
Yeah.
00:28:53
Brett
And we're trying to compare to some extent like to like. So that's one thing that's kind of kind of wild is if you have something that's specialty or different or unique, that it's hard for us to really bring that in, especially if you're charging a premium because We really want to compare green beans to green beans to green beans, regardless of the the market.
00:29:12
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:29:12
Brett
and um so And everybody's special and that's amazing, but that's one thing. And then the other is just units. Units is the ongoing.
00:29:20
Plant People
Hounds and bunches, yeah.
00:29:22
Jessica
Yeah.
00:29:22
Brett
Yeah.
00:29:22
Plant People
Yeah.
00:29:23
Brett
Handful. I'm like, who's handful? Is this like my handful?
00:29:26
Alexis
Mm
00:29:26
Jessica
Right.
00:29:27
Brett
Is this a small child's handful?
00:29:29
Alexis
-hm.
00:29:30
Brett
How you know how how ah how tight are you gripping the the
00:29:33
Plant People
I think quantify that, yeah.
00:29:33
Jessica
ah yeah Are they weighing them? Are they putting them in cork containers? Are they putting them in plastic bags already? Yeah, it's all over all over the place.
00:29:41
Brett
Yeah.
00:29:42
Alexis
That's one of the reasons cut flowers are not all on the list currently because they are the way.
00:29:48
Plant People
They're too special.
00:29:49
Alexis
Well, though like that's they're special for sure, like variety wise, but the ah just like, you know, a bouquet is not a bouquet is not a bouquet.
00:29:52
Plant People
Yeah. but Specialized maybe.
00:29:59
Alexis
So.
00:30:00
Brett
Yeah, that is an, I had just just having a conversation.
00:30:00
Alexis
ah
00:30:03
Brett
Alexis and I were out at the Organic Association of Kentucky conference. Shout out to the Oak team.
00:30:08
Alexis
What up?
00:30:08
Brett
Amazing, amazing event. um And the a person came up to me and was asking about, do does our reports include include flowers? And I was like, well,
00:30:18
Alexis
ah sure sure
00:30:19
Brett
Yes, but, uh, and like, so it's like, you know, a book, the idea of a bouquet that's, and that's how a lot of people are marking them.
00:30:21
Alexis
No.
00:30:25
Brett
That might be just sort of a, what do they call it? Alexis, when it's just like a random, you just, uh, what is it?
00:30:30
Alexis
A mixed bouquet? A mixed bouquet? Like just a market bouquet?
00:30:34
Brett
Yeah. Mixed. I feel like, uh, Sarah used some, Sarah Gerkink used some term that she had, that was like, it's, I don't know, I have to get back with her and follow up. But yeah, it's just like a, you got, you have like zinnias and some other, I don't know, other mixed kind of summer flowers, you're just, you just cut them, go, and it's a bouquet. It's very different from Specialty Lizzie Anderson specialty this and specialty that it that would be wouldn't be out of place at like a ah New York high concept event, you know, they're different things and so it's hard to compare those ah The idea of the you mentioned the unit pricing like the weight by weight so we what we end up doing is we end up making some assumptions and this is all included in there with links out to the publications we use for reference and
00:31:01
Alexis
Right.
00:31:04
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:31:25
Brett
that like a certain number a certain number of pounds of tomatoes is this many quarts and so vice or vice versa. as far as the and this This many bushels of beans of green beans has on average this many pounds in it or quarter bushels or whatever.
00:31:42
Brett
So we do have to do some conversion and some stuff. And so that's why but that that, in addition to just the basic marketing and business principles for why you wouldn't want to use this as a prescription is why we do that.
00:31:54
Brett
And so, um for example, or the way that I talk about it, I guess, is that this price or sorry, these reports can help you see what the going rate for a product is in some markets similar to yours.
00:32:08
Alexis
Mm
00:32:10
Plant People
Oh, God.
00:32:11
Brett
That's all it tells you.
00:32:12
Alexis
-hm.
00:32:12
Brett
that is not That does not mean that that that those products are being sold as at a profit. It doesn't mean that those people are growing in the same system as you, have the same costs as you, have the same quality as you.
00:32:23
Brett
There's no quality ah component here.
00:32:26
Alexis
or like organic versus not, you know?
00:32:28
Brett
Yep, correct. I mean, we we do sometimes report those if if available in our era weekly reports, but that's not factored in here in these these year end reports just because we don't have enough reporting organic markets to to factor that in.
00:32:29
Jessica
right.
00:32:41
Brett
But it's this is this is one part of it. How much is stuff going for? And then the other part is how much does it cost for me to sell it? And how much can i how much profit do I want to make?
00:32:53
Brett
And do those two things line up? And so if you do your math, and you see that you can't possibly sell tomatoes at a farmer's market for less than $5 a pound, then that means maybe you shouldn't
Decision Making in Market Setups
00:33:06
Brett
be growing tomatoes to grow and sell at a market.
00:33:06
Jessica
Mm
00:33:07
Brett
And that's an okay decision to make because maybe you're really good at growing cucumbers or you're really good at ah doing value added stuff and you actually wanted to go that direction or cut flowers or whatever.
00:33:10
Jessica
hmm.
00:33:18
Brett
So um yeah, that's
00:33:19
Plant People
But that's that's a great number, though. I mean, not to discount the number. that's I love the numbers. it doesn't I mean, it is more of an indication to me of like the public's price sensitivity to things in a given market.
00:33:30
Alexis
and
00:33:31
Plant People
ah you know If you really look into it, you guys are very deliberate to say, hey, know your own situation, know your role, know your expenses. But I love the fact that, I mean, that's a great number still. ah And you guys have done a good job of leveling that as much as you can, because I i realize, and Jessica, you mentioned, is it a bunch?
00:33:48
Plant People
Is it a pound? Breh, you said, you know, how big is a handful? And I know that drives you guys that love spreadsheets crazy, because you're going to have to have a million columns, Brett.
00:33:54
Jessica
Yeah.
00:33:55
Alexis
Just like only a little.
00:33:57
Plant People
You just add more columns, man. Add more columns.
00:34:01
Brett
Yeah we are.
00:34:01
Plant People
ah But yeah, it's I know it's super tough, but it's still great. It's supremely useful information. Not only the the historic stuff that I mentioned earlier, like the the during the season numbers of about what's going on immediately and those are awesome too.
00:34:12
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:34:17
Alexis
Yeah, that's really cool when you think about, um so like tomatoes are the most popular high tunnel crop in the state, right? So, but looking at that, like is it worth it to put your tomatoes in extra early and maybe rip out another crop because you're going to get a high enough price point versus the field tomatoes in, you know,
00:34:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:34:32
Jessica
Right.
00:34:35
Alexis
And then you can look at, okay, well, it costs me a lot less to do field tomatoes. So really I make more per pound, even though I'm technically not you know charging less per pound. Being able to look at that and make this like production system ah decisions ah were or yeah having data to support those decisions is super, super helpful.
00:34:50
Plant People
Yeah, and watching the crash.
00:34:56
Alexis
and like the opportunity cost of going to a farmer's market, right? So if you just said, and we kind of said this, but I like to call it opportunity cost because I learned that term a long time ago and I've kept on it. But you know if you are deciding between a roadside stand and going to a farmer's market,
00:35:13
Alexis
ah You might make less at the roadside stand, but you're not putting in as much effort right that is going to the market. And so seeing those general numbers can be so so helpful. And I think sometimes we forget to use it in that way. And we're just looking at, am I charging enough for my tomato? Well, I don't know.
00:35:32
Plant People
And timing. you and It's so interesting watching a new producer interpret these for the first time or see it graphed out ah monthwise, you know, on one of the axes. And then they're like, well, why is there always such a big dip?
00:35:44
Plant People
And then, you you know, they start to think about it and they're like, oh, that's when everybody has tomatoes in the process.
00:35:47
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:35:50
Plant People
Bottoms out and that leads to a whole other set of interesting, you know things and questions and conversations And it just goes to show that and especially this historical data, you know If you're looking at, you know monthly like what process things bring it's a really interesting and and I've even had a market person said Oh, you know, I guess we're losing money on that what we you know Um, we lose per unit.
00:36:15
Plant People
We'll make it foreign volume and just laughed because it was a numbers person. And that's the classic Joe guys cracking up because they saw that at a certain point, they were going to put, you know, grow field tomatoes, but it was, they were going to be coming off based on the days to maturity of that particular variety, um, that it was going to come off right at the bottom of the price curve.
00:36:21
Brett
i
00:36:34
Alexis
Mm.
00:36:35
Jessica
Mm.
00:36:35
Plant People
So yeah, I mean, ah there's lots of great, you know, little side conversations you can have from the data historical and current. It's like good stuff.
00:36:41
Brett
Yeah, you're really gassing us up here. I appreciate that. ah But and you know one thing too is that you in general, we sometimes approach, and this is because there's a lot of beginners involved, we sometimes approach direct marketers, farmers, marketers, et cetera, like at a very basic level as if like the content and the information should be very basic and very straightforward.
00:36:49
Plant People
love the numbers
00:37:05
Brett
And I i appreciate that. I appreciate good basic information regardless of the of the context, but the reality is, These direct direct marketing channels are pretty complex um and they're they're really complex in small spaces.
00:37:14
Plant People
I love the numbers.
00:37:15
Alexis
Yeah.
00:37:18
Brett
What I and i mean by that is there's some other you know agricultural markets and and other phenomena in general that are complex, mainly just because they're so big and there's so many actors involved. But there's a lot involved.
00:37:29
Brett
And so that all that heady talk for me to say, Alexis, when you're talking about looking at early tomatoes, There are some data to suggest that one of the more important things for farmers market vendors is to establish your customers early in the season because if someone comes to you, they know you, they know where your booth is, they feel comfortable with who you are, they're more likely to buy from you across the whole season.
00:37:49
Jessica
oh
00:37:54
Jessica
I would agree with that. I've seen that a lot.
00:37:56
Brett
Yeah, we're we're creatures of habit. And like, ah safety is important. And at a very like primal level, it may manifest as like, Oh, that nice person sold me that stuff.
00:38:05
Alexis
Mm
00:38:07
Brett
And so and I liked that. But on a primal level, it's almost more like, I got my food stuff from that person, it was safe, it was, you know, cool.
00:38:08
Alexis
hmm.
00:38:14
Jessica
It was good, yeah.
00:38:14
Brett
So I will keep going.
00:38:16
Plant People
the power of routines, yeah.
00:38:16
Alexis
Yeah.
00:38:16
Brett
And so You see these weird really weird dynamics in the prices and in the end if you go through if you go and find the report you can see the um individual crop.
Customer Relationships and Market Dynamics
00:38:27
Brett
ah Price dynamics and they are throughout the course of the year so you know what was it in may versus june versus august for things that you know things are in season then.
00:38:38
Brett
And it's not at all what you would expect. And a lot of times it's like relatively flat or like, so the inference, meaning that most people are charging around the same price for the whole season.
00:38:50
Brett
In some cases, there will be a decline where, when, um, you know, stuff comes into season or, or, or, but other times it'll completely go against your expectations.
00:39:00
Plant People
Hmm.
00:39:00
Brett
This is kind of to what Ray was talking about. If you compare that to like our, our auction. reports in our auction analysis, it follows, we have we're and with auctions, we're able to better track volumes.
00:39:12
Alexis
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:39:14
Brett
And it's literally as as volume, the amount of product that's available goes up, i.e. it comes more and more into season, the price goes down. And then as that goes but as the amount available goes down, the price goes right back up.
00:39:28
Brett
And and so it's this you know two upside down or two opposite types of curves that you can see. And we just don't see that in farmers markets because they're, again, but they're complicated in this weird way because they're relational.
00:39:38
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:39:40
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:42
Brett
It's a retail space, but it's also seasonal. And so the the amount of the volume that's available doesn't necessarily translate in a lot of consumers minds, the types of people who are who are messaging and in in April and saying, oh, you're going to have tomatoes at market this this weekend?
00:40:01
Brett
Well, no.
00:40:01
Plant People
Brett, do ah do you have, ah do you guys see any differences?
00:40:02
Brett
um
00:40:03
Plant People
I mean, maybe the information is not nuanced enough to speak to this, but ah you speaking of prosperity, you see much of ah any kinds of trends between urban and rural markets.
00:40:14
Plant People
I've always been really interested in that, where urban markets seem to have a ah you know little bit different kind of swagger about them, different population levels, so on and so forth. I mean, i just I've always wondered, are they more buffered against some of these swings?
00:40:27
Brett
yeah Yes, I think so.
00:40:27
Plant People
I don't know.
00:40:29
Plant People
Are they?
00:40:29
Brett
and i think I think another thing that we have seen across these reports has been that availability of product tends to be more continuous at urban markets compared to rural markets because there are some places where people only want to buy stuff until it comes in in their garden.
00:40:49
Jessica
Right.
00:40:49
Plant People
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:40:49
Brett
and then
00:40:50
Jessica
Yeah, we see that a lot with Have a Day.
00:40:52
Plant People
Rural markets, yeah. I could see that very easily. um
00:40:55
Jessica
Because everybody has has a garden, right? And so like in our our county, we see a different definite change in that because you know then they're just kind of supplementing some of the stuff if they don't have enough.
00:40:58
Brett
Yep.
00:41:05
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:41:08
Jessica
Something on topic with this, but it would be interesting how you mentioned how with farmer's market, there's more of that relationship with vendors and about how you said, like Oh, I bought something from this person from the beginning.
00:41:20
Jessica
So now I'm always going to shop with that person. That would be very interesting to track that or to see why people go to certain vendors. And you do build relationships with people and some of them, you know, their names, some of them, I, I will own up to this.
00:41:35
Jessica
There's a man, an older gentleman. He has a Corgi. Um, the Corgi's name is Dougal. Dougal barks a lot at the market.
00:41:40
Alexis
Not mine.
00:41:42
Jessica
I know Dougal's name. I do not know the gentleman's name, but he is wonderful. And he always buys tomatoes from us. But we are his tomato place when there are five or six other vendors who also sell great tomatoes or who've had them way before we've had them. So that's kind of interesting that to think about those relationships and how they might impact your your trends as well for selling-wise.
00:42:07
Brett
Totally. Yeah. And it it emphasissize it brings an emphasis to to some of the other marketing education and support that we do to try to help with that. I mean, granted, theoretically, if everyone followed our advice, they would kind of create an equal playing field, but it doesn't really do that. people Some people listen, some people don't.
00:42:25
Brett
But things like having an attractive display that looks clean and is is you know just attractive and inviting, and you yourself being friendly enough to say hello, to have clear signage, to have all those little things, it actually has this effect. Yes, you're sort of converting that first sale, but converting that first sale in these relationship-based marketing contexts can have all of these domino effects throughout the course of the season, even one season to another.
00:42:53
Brett
And you've seen that with Dougal Senior and Dougal Junior.
00:42:56
Jessica
Mm hmm. I always look forward to seeing Dougal and owner.
00:43:00
Brett
buddy And in hearing, seeing and hearing it sounds like.
00:43:02
Jessica
Yes.
COVID-19's Impact on Markets
00:43:04
Alexis
in the...
00:43:04
Brett
Yeah, so I'm curious what like, um do you all have you all observed any, you know, this this covers 2022 to 2024.
00:43:04
Plant People
Look.
00:43:13
Brett
But maybe if we think a little bit longer back to COVID, the COVID times, um this last five year, four year, five year chunk of time.
00:43:17
Jessica
Uh huh.
00:43:22
Brett
Do you all have any kind of impressions or thoughts about farmers markets where they're headed? ah What what people are saying are you having more? You know new people get involved as vendors or what about customer basis any any kind of tales from the field would be really I'd be intrigued to hear
00:43:40
Jessica
I think during COVID you saw an increase on both ends, right?
00:43:44
Alexis
Mm
00:43:44
Jessica
You saw where people were like, I'm going to grow my own stuff, right? For my family.
00:43:48
Alexis
hmm.
00:43:48
Jessica
And then if I'm going to grow enough, I'm going to sell it. So I know I saw an increase of people wanting to join markets, but then also being a vendor ourselves, it was just, they were slammed, right?
00:44:00
Jessica
The markets were slammed with people coming in and buying because there was that worry about, I'm not going to find stuff in the actual grocery stores, right? And then, After COVID, that leveled off, but I don't think like it dropped.
00:44:13
Jessica
right like I think you the market's gained new customers.
00:44:17
Plant People
I think they established some habits, and I love it, some buying habits.
00:44:19
Jessica
Yeah. Now, as far as vendors, i I think a lot of people got really excited and wanting to do it, and then they realized, oh, this is
00:44:28
Alexis
Oh farming is hard.
00:44:30
Jessica
Yeah, farming's hard.
00:44:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:32
Jessica
And so maybe they've tailored off a little, but I think they're like, it wasn't a significant drop, right? There's still always new people interested in joining markets and doing that.
00:44:44
Jessica
And I think it helps like if they've had a successful home garden or if they're like already a mid range grower like wanting to bump up. But definitely like during COVID, at least I saw an increase from both sides of it, like increased customer foot traffic and people wanting to be a part of a market and and start selling.
00:45:04
Brett
Yeah, i think so I think um people were expecting that there'd be this spike in demand and as soon as things went back to normal, the grocery stores shelves were restocked, it would just be an instant return to normalcy. and um or whatever that meant, or the absurd state we were in before.
00:45:23
Alexis
It's ridiculous.
00:45:23
Brett
I don't know. Maybe it's not normal. none of it There is no normal, um but that the the economists have a very evocative term for us to say that the demand for local products is was stickier than expected, that it it's more resistant to change.
00:45:39
Alexis
Oh yeah.
00:45:40
Jessica
Huh.
00:45:42
Brett
um and and sort of you know It's like a Klingon. It's clinging on.
00:45:46
Plant People
I think ah tasty, fresh fruits and vegetables are a habit for me. That's my philosophy. That's my theory. It's a habit for me.
00:45:53
Brett
Well, and in the in the midst of a crazy um isolating period of time where you have time, some some degree, what depends on who you are and what you were doing, but you at least had some time force time alone and probably time to reflect on relationships.
00:46:09
Brett
We know, and there's some really cool interesting data from ah Tim Woods that we work with about some of how important community is to people who shop at farmer's markets, which is no duh, but like to have data is,
00:46:18
Plant People
Hmm.
00:46:18
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:46:19
Alexis
That's exactly what I was going to say.
00:46:22
Brett
oh sorry alexis
00:46:23
Alexis
No, no, i'm glad I'm glad I didn't know that Tim had some data.
00:46:23
Brett
we
00:46:26
Alexis
So that's that's good for me to know as a newbie to CCD, but you know being an agent you know for four during COVID and like four years after it, um we really saw, we would have a rural market and it grew a lot, but a lot of that had to do with the community of just having something to do on a Saturday.
00:46:47
Alexis
And so, you know, everyone would come, everyone would buy something, but they were there for the the chatter and the, you know, maybe the music playing the socialization of it.
00:46:48
Brett
Oh, sorry, Alexis.
00:46:56
Jessica
Socialization here.
00:46:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:59
Alexis
So that socialization is what keeps them coming back. And they're like, well, while I'm here, I might as well get some stuff, you know, so it was sort of a, and that's what we've seen continue as those relationships made.
00:47:06
Jessica
ah
00:47:10
Alexis
during a time when you know people were maybe be feeling more lonely than usual, maintained. And so it was kind of like a standard, I see so and so on Saturday at the farmer's market. And we really saw that increase. And then I think also, going back to what Jessica was saying about a lot of people grew gardens, right? ah So maybe they were vendors or ah maybe they um aren't any And they aren't anymore, but I think the value of what farmers do, the perception of that for probably increase, I would assume, again, I'm not going off data here, but the people who tried to grow a garden and maybe they're not getting as many tomatoes as they thought they should, they see the value in paying maybe that $5 a pound for a tomato because they know how hard it is. ah So I think that there was ah some added value to the work done by farmers.
00:48:01
Alexis
ah
00:48:02
Plant People
It's another interesting thing I observed at our market that was already happening pre-COVID.
Technology's Role in Market Transactions
00:48:08
Plant People
I mean, there's pre-COVID and post-COVID as far as, you know, the scope of this discussion, but it was interesting. And and I wonder if it's not one of the things that helped people develop a habit in that friction was removed in purchasing at the farmer's market. And by that, I mean,
00:48:23
Plant People
I think that the evolution of a small and medium sized vendors sort of sped up. and And they did things like they accepted alternate form of payments or they accepted all the swap payments. And it's amazing how many people said that they are that's why they shop at the market because then they realize that people can swap. And I saw things like that accelerate through COVID and post COVID during COVID and then after COVID.
00:48:52
Plant People
ah is that the payment methods removed a lot of friction to purchase. Not only that, but our market greatly evolved in things like ah CSA baskets. Our market acts as an accumulation point where they're a purchasing point, the market itself, and then they assimilate you know baskets and then have different share levels. There's more microprocessors now. There's more home-based processors. All of that, I think, sped up in evolution, but the biggest factor there was just simply something small like a payment swap method that made it so much more easier.
00:49:25
Brett
Man, you all are so smart and you're so engaged and plugged in. It's so awesome. It's just like so awesome. to Because yeah, ah so back when you know we're coming up on the the time of of year where I'm reminded in 2020 when everything started to be like, oh no, things are going to be different for now.
00:49:47
Brett
Um, and, and that March, April, may period time period where. Luckily we had been preaching, take other forms of of payment because people are, i I refer to it as the, as the inverse Dave Ramsey that Dave Ramsey wants you to not use your card because you're going to spend too much money.
00:49:57
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:50:04
Jessica
Right.
00:50:07
Brett
Please use your card so that you can spend too much money. You can't say, I don't, I don't only have $40.
00:50:07
Plant People
Yeah.
00:50:10
Jessica
Please.
00:50:12
Brett
So I can't, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. My friend swipe away.
00:50:14
Jessica
We take a card, yeah.
00:50:15
Brett
We take a card, come on.
00:50:17
Plant People
That's a big deal for ad markets. I mean, people constantly, and it's amazing how many people come currently and they hadn't been to a market in a long, long time.
00:50:18
Brett
Invest in your health.
00:50:25
Plant People
And they say, wow, we're really amazed that everybody can swap now. And and they're just, yeah.
00:50:29
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:50:29
Alexis
Now, Venmo is like a big thing. People don't even bring a card anymore.
00:50:31
Plant People
yeah
00:50:32
Alexis
They just want to like pay you on Venmo or Cash App or something.
00:50:33
Plant People
Yeah. The systems have gotten better.
00:50:36
Alexis
Yeah, it's wild.
00:50:36
Plant People
Yes. Yeah.
00:50:37
Alexis
Yep.
00:50:38
Plant People
All the technology, the support technology that market vendors can then employ, you know, and use to get their products into people's hands more easily.
00:50:47
Jessica
That's not even thinking about like all the WIC and senior programs as well.
00:50:47
Plant People
It's all awesome. It's all awesome.
00:50:51
Plant People
Double dollars and all of those programs now.
00:50:52
Alexis
Yeah.
00:50:52
Jessica
And they've, those are all, um, swipeable now too.
00:50:53
Brett
Mm hmm.
00:50:57
Jessica
Like they have like cards for those and like you said, double dollars program and streamlining those things to make them easier or both market vendors and the clientele to use them.
00:50:57
Alexis
yeah
00:50:57
Plant People
Yes.
00:51:08
Plant People
Just making it so much more easy to come and purchase things and be convenient.
00:51:11
Jessica
Yep. To buy things.
00:51:13
Plant People
Yeah. Do you guys ah take ah like ah all the ah alternate methods or like Venmo or PayPal, Jessica, when you guys are selling Alexis?
00:51:22
Jessica
Definitely we do, um, we have like square credit card wise and then still, you would still be amazed how much, how many people they're just trained though, like to this who bring cash, like cat, you know, to, to markets still.
00:51:26
Plant People
Awesome. Awesome.
00:51:30
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:51:33
Plant People
Oh, sure.
00:51:33
Alexis
Yeah.
00:51:34
Plant People
Sure.
00:51:34
Brett
Totally.
00:51:36
Jessica
But, um, definitely the credit card is game changing for, for a producer.
00:51:41
Plant People
Yeah.
00:51:41
Brett
yeah
00:51:41
Alexis
Yeah. We do ah Venmo, especially because we have a self-service stand, ah but also just, I think with flowers where they're, um you know, they're not a necessity item for most people.
00:51:49
Plant People
Oh, awesome.
00:51:58
Alexis
And so Venmo tends to kind of be more on like, like fun money, I guess is a good way. That's the way Tyler and I, as' my husband and I describe is like fun money tends to be in more Venmo accounts.
00:52:06
Plant People
Just dictionary spending.
00:52:10
Alexis
And so ah people are like, able to spend it easier, I guess, is a way to think about it ah from that perspective.
00:52:18
Plant People
We're just making your data more complicated, Brett.
00:52:18
Brett
Yeah.
00:52:21
Plant People
We're mentioning all these secondary factors or fringe factors.
00:52:21
Alexis
Yeah.
00:52:23
Brett
Well, and that and that you know if if there could be people who raised their raised their prices marginally in order to cover some of those credit card fees, people are so averse to the credit card fees.
00:52:23
Alexis
Yeah.
00:52:29
Plant People
Swap these, yeah.
00:52:30
Alexis
and yeah
00:52:33
Brett
And I get it.
00:52:34
Alexis
and
00:52:34
Brett
I do get it.
00:52:35
Alexis
Right.
00:52:35
Brett
But like i the whole simple math of if you sell 20% more as a result of taking credit cards, factor that into the fee.
00:52:42
Alexis
right
00:52:44
Brett
like' It's just the cost of doing business in the same way that if you had to drive more you know or you have... but Anyway, that's a getting on me um me getting on my soapbox.
00:52:51
Jessica
it's
00:52:51
Brett
But i still there are still people who I so you know sat with on the phone in March and April in 2020 who set up pre-order systems
00:52:52
Jessica
yeah
00:53:03
Alexis
isn'
00:53:04
Brett
And they set up their ability to take cards. They set up their all, all of these things so that they could, they could use still function, you know, in a contact free world that still use those technologies because they saw like, Oh wow, this is way easier when I can like know how much I need to take.
00:53:15
Jessica
Yeah.
00:53:22
Brett
I can have this pre-packed and it's.
00:53:23
Alexis
And people got used to it, so they were like, you know, they want that now.
00:53:24
Jessica
Yep. And.
00:53:25
Brett
Amazing. and so And in the same way that it got a lot of people used to the this this digital ah meeting space and digital presentation space, for better or for worse, I don't know, a lot of webinars.
00:53:36
Brett
um But it it did hit fast forward on that technology adoption, right?
00:53:37
Jessica
ah
00:53:40
Jessica
Yeah, to brag on, to brag on Brett, I attended some of those like trainings for our market here in Mercer County of like doing these pre-order systems and using, you know, we we were using like Google forms and stuff before, but we weren't like really using them like we, you know, did once like COVID and stuff happened.
00:53:40
Brett
So I think that's right on.
00:53:50
Plant People
So.
00:53:58
Brett
Sure.
00:53:58
Alexis
but
00:53:59
Jessica
So like excellent training opportunities from Brett.
00:54:02
Brett
Aww. Well, thanks. Yeah, we're and we're we're hoping to...
00:54:04
Alexis
So, head of the curve.
00:54:06
Jessica
Yeah, he was.
00:54:07
Brett
well that we we we had been My colleague Christy at the time and I had been doing webinars for uh five years at that point and That was
Digital Outreach and Community Engagement
00:54:18
Brett
before zoom.
00:54:18
Brett
It was before it was he is adobe connect i'm sounding like the old, you know, whatever but um i've been i've been lucky to work with i've been lucky to work with people who uh, you know elective and including alexis including ray including jessica who like to think about things a little differently and prioritize what people really want and and deliver it in a way that's that's useful and
00:54:23
Jessica
Hehe.
00:54:25
Plant People
Still around, nobody's still around.
00:54:40
Brett
works for them. And that's that's the whole reason that I go through the very fun ordeal of creating these three three-year average price reports is because I do think that they're useful. I think it's a helpful conversation starter. and i'm I'm you know, in the same way that I think farmers market people are just excited to like have a document that is just all about their experience of thinking about prices. It's like a weird, you know, it's like going to the Comic Con or whatever for whatever whatever your interest is. and Everyone there is like, whoa, we're all into this. I think that they have that experience. And I'm I have that experience today of like, yeah, this is all stuff that we have talked about and thought about. And so it's ah it's nice to to share.
00:55:23
Alexis
Cool. So if you're interested in price reports, even if you don't live in the state of Kentucky, uh, you may be able to to check stuff out and see sort of how that, how that works, whether that's auction or farmer's market, we have.
00:55:30
Plant People
You should be.
00:55:36
Brett
Yeah, we have reports for Tennessee that ah our car our colleague mar Margarita Volandia down there collects that we post on the site as well.
00:55:43
Alexis
Absolutely. So there you go.
00:55:44
Jessica
Cool.
00:55:44
Alexis
You can get two states. And if you're in the Southeast, even you may be able to kind of use those. ah to check that out but you can find those on our CCD website which is just ccd.uky.edu and so we can throw that in the show notes if you're interested in checking out any of the resources that we have on there ah for direct markets or wholesale markets or We got a lot, so definitely check out the website. It's new, so we're pretty proud of it. ah and and Let us know if you've got any questions, if you want to deep dive more into wholesale marketing and the different avenues of wholesale for you know institutions and farm to school. We've not really done that, ah but that could be of interest to some of you out there. so
00:56:30
Alexis
Feel free to drop that ah down in the ah review section as you give us five stars say this was great would love to know about XYZ. You can also send us an email our emails in the show notes if you want and we all.
00:56:45
Alexis
get access to that email so we can all check that out. ah Also, you can find us on Instagram, ah at Hort Culture Podcast, and you can drop us a line in there if you have interest, and it'll just kind of keep you up to date that a new episode has has dropped or some cool stuff that we have found. We share a lot of stuff from our um other organizations, such as Oak, who we mentioned earlier, ah but things that are timely and might be useful you know in between your, of course, programmed weekly episodes. so If you've got anything for us, definitely let us know, but we appreciate you guys being here today with us and we hope that we will chat with you next time. Have a great one.