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EP 32 | Kelly Grellier and Kate Parkes: RSPCA Assured Hatchery Standards Go Live: What Hatcheries Need to Know
101 Plays1 month ago
Tom Woolman and Tom Willings welcome back their first repeat guests to the Poultry Network Podcast: Kelly Grelier (Chief Commercial Officer, RSPCA Assured) and Kate Parks (Senior Scientific Officer, RSPCA). After the hosts’ earlier coverage, they set out RSPCA Assured’s perspective on the revised hatchery standards, now in force from 16 February.
The updated standard applies across poultry sectors—laying hens, broilers, turkeys and ducks—and is positioned as a refresh of a document last published in 2017, rather than a wholesale rewrite. The most substantive strengthening is in the section covering humane killing: RSPCA Assured reviewed current best practice and incorporated relevant guidance, including Humane Slaughter Association material, alongside clearer expectations on contingency planning. Other updates include additions intended to be consistent across species, such as a section on wild animal control.
Consultation is a central theme. Because hatcheries span multiple species schemes, the guests explain that proposals have historically been worked through the relevant species Standards Technical Advisory Groups (STAGs) and targeted meetings with affected members. They point to a focused 2023 session involving laying-hen hatchery members and BEIC representation, and acknowledge that an unusually long gap between sign‑off and publication—linked to a wider pause on standards releases—may have created a perception gap about how much engagement took place. Looking ahead, RSPCA Assured has convened a dedicated hatchery STAG to give hatchery-specific issues more focus.
For businesses assessing compliance and supply chain risk, Kelly and Kate emphasise that the revision was issued with a three‑month notification and they are not aware of major new requirements that should disrupt operations; where bigger changes are needed, longer lead times would normally apply. The discussion also highlights the egg sector’s sensitivity, given the small number of assured laying-hen hatcheries underpinning end‑to‑end continuity.
Finally, they unpack the document’s “iBoxes”—forward‑looking signals on areas such as in‑ovo sexing, AI use and potential future expectations for feed and water provision in hatcheries. The message to operators is to engage early on innovation and investment so welfare aims and practical delivery can be aligned. RSPCA Assured reiterates its welfare‑only focus and cites YouGov research indicating 85% of consumers look for welfare assurance.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Poultry Network Podcast
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Poultry Network podcast. I'm Tom Woolman. And my name's Tom Willings. Hello, Tom. How are you? yeah I'm very well. I'm very well. Yeah, the sun has come out and my spirits have lifted accordingly.
00:00:32
Speaker
I don't quite know what happened to my voice there. I got awfully excited about that we're we're recording yet again. it's ah It's all good fun. All good fun. Well, yeah you wouldn't be doing it unless it made you a little bit excited. Yeah, do it do enjoy it. We do enjoy it.
Introduction of Repeat Guests: Kelly Grelier and Kate Parks
00:00:46
Speaker
Today, we've got our first repeat guest, which is exciting in itself. Well, yeah, and I think there's a little bit of a, yeah, we shall so we shall see how it goes. It's quite exciting because this is one of the first people that we had early on, isn't it? Or the first two people.
00:01:01
Speaker
It's not just one repeat guest, it's two repeat guests. Absolutely, absolutely.
Discussion on Revised RSPCA Hatchery Standards
00:01:05
Speaker
So, um yeah, before before Christmas, um we recorded an episode covering the release of the RSPCA Shorts.
00:01:13
Speaker
revised hatchery standards which have just come into effect um on the 16th of February. But um in our coverage ah there were a few issues that caused the RSPCA Assured to get in touch and and seek an opportunity to come and explain a few things from their perspective. So we're delighted today that Kelly Grelier, the Chief Commercial Officer at RSPCA Assured, and Kate Parks, the Senior Scientific Officer at RSPCA, are here with us to um discuss the standards in a bit more detail.
00:01:47
Speaker
Okay, well let's start the interview but first a message from our sponsor.
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00:01:57
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:02:56
Speaker
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Clarification of Previous Broadcast Inaccuracies with RSPCA Assured
00:03:07
Speaker
Kate and Kelly, welcome back to the podcast. You're actually our first repeat, I was going to say offenders, I'm not sure that's quite correct quite the right word, but no, delighted that you've joined us ah again. thanks for Thanks for coming on.
00:03:21
Speaker
Thanks having us. and we This is a little bit of a repair job, isn't it? I know um when we broadcast previously about your introduction of your standards, I personally might not have been word perfect in the description of some of those things. And you were and you were keen to get back in touch, which we absolutely thoroughly welcome. um Clarify one or two points, but it's great opportunity also just to discuss the standards as a whole because they are live.
Key Changes in Hatchery Standards
00:03:49
Speaker
um And um yeah, kind of how we got here and and and where we're going. And they these are the hatchery standards, aren't they? This this is the interesting thing ah for for us as a podcast format where we have ah a meat guy and an egg guy. These standards are across um all sorts of different proteins. Yeah. Not only the egg egg hatcheries and and the meat hatcheries, but also turkey poults and ducklings, et cetera. It's the first time we've had to look at the same bit of paper and we were both supposed to know what we're talking about. so tests
00:04:20
Speaker
So maybe the best place to start is, um well, it's to start at the start, I suppose. So um just give us a little outline as to the to to the the standards. um What are the key changes that we're seeing in these standards? um and And what do you think are going to have the um you know the biggest impact on on the hatcheries going forward?
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Tom. So um as our members might be aware, it has been quite some time since we've reprinted the Hatchery Standard. So the ah previous version was 2017. So they were quite overdue from our perspective in terms of updating them. In terms of the areas we've looked at, um it's not too much that it's sort of a fundamental change or a big change, ah but we have bolstered our section on killing.
00:05:04
Speaker
um So what we've done basically is had a thorough review of the latest guidance, mainly following guidance from the Humane Slaughter Association to incorporating that um where appropriate.
Consultation Process for Revised Standards
00:05:15
Speaker
We've looked at things such as um ah contingency planning for killing as well, because that's a key area as well. um Some other bits and bobs, there's a little bit in there in terms of um areas we're looking at going forwards. So those would be some of our information boxes. things like inovosexing, for example, and artificial intelligence, the use of that.
00:05:37
Speaker
um There's a section on wild animal control that's gone across all species. um But again, from our perspective, um none of these are sort of major changes. They're kind of just general updates um that we'd expect to put into kind of all or species standards. Well, I would have thought the lot of the wild animal control stuff is probably already being replicated, isn't it, in in other standards already in terms of rodent control and and and and that sort of thing.
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah. Can I jump straight into the into the kind of consultation word because I think that's possibly where um you know some of the the ripples in the in the in the trade have have been over the course of um you know the introduction of this this this revision. and And from a laying sector perspective, i expect there's ah you know a very faint dotted line from the laying hand standards that were revised a couple of years ago.
00:06:29
Speaker
um but could you just sort of talk us through the consultation process you actually went through with the sector as a whole but but perhaps with a special mention for the laying sector the egg sector yeah sure so hatcheries has always been a bit of an anomaly anomaly if i can say that word properly um because it does as we've said fall across different sectors so it is you know meat chickens turkeys laying hens and the duck sector so To date, we haven't had a specific group to discuss sort of these changes. And by that, I mean our standards technical advisory group. So what we've done previously is take any sort of proposals to those individual species groups to discuss. um What we did specifically with these standards back in 2023 is also have a sort of focused group of the laying hen hatchery members and representatives from industry like the BEIC to specifically sort of go through them.
Formation of Hatchery Standards Technical Advisory Group
00:07:23
Speaker
um But what we found ah going forward is actually we would really like to have a dedicated hatchery stag to actually give it kind of the attention it deserves um and not kind of just incorporate it in our general, you know, meat chicken chat or turkey chat. So what we've actually done um more recently, actually a couple of weeks ago, was to convene our first meeting of that group. Now that's kind of going forward, the approach we're trying to take. um But in terms of these actual standards, the discussions very much went through those individual species stags um and kind of individual meetings with affected members, so to speak.
00:07:59
Speaker
so So there's no member... Sorry, go ahead. Just to add to that as well, once the those that process had been completed ahead of a notification letter letter going out, we um wrote to our sort of members to say, hey, this is coming. um So that when I say we, um the farm and technical engagement team um in RSPCA Assured to offer support advice and give the opportunity to ask any questions about the new standards as well.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's great. ah the The impression I've had, and I've only had, you know, informal conversation around the the um the laying industry only, and but I'm relating only to the laying industry. But the the feedback I've had is that actually they didn't experience or there was no consultation. And so how do we end up with two very different perspectives here on on on what degree of engagement there was?
00:08:55
Speaker
I wonder if it's a little bit that time delay. So obviously these discussions were happening sort of 2023 time roughly, um and they actually were finalised shortly after that. um So from the internal perspective, they were kind of signed off, ready to go.
00:09:08
Speaker
Obviously what we had then was kind of those further discussions generally around our laying hen standards. um And actually all the species standards were paused in terms of their release at that time. So, um and that's not just the hatcheries, that included pigs, meat, chickens, others as well. so I do wonder if a little bit um that intervening gap hasn't helped um because ultimately, you know, there was a prolonged time period longer than we would normally have from kind of having those discussions, signing them off, getting them ready, and then actual publication. So that could be of like almost 18 months or even touch over.
00:09:43
Speaker
and But it also, does what you're saying actually does talk to the fact that um there appears to be sort of nothing in the standards that that cause the industry, as far as I'm aware, any operational problem. Because that was something that I was extremely concerned about, that, you know, as far as I'm aware, you can count the laying hen numbers hatchery members on the fingers of one hand and um speaking about free range and and and organic and perhaps a touch of barn egg as well but um certainly free range and organic the the industry is predicated on RSPCA assured labelling on the packs on the retailer shelves and and if that
00:10:23
Speaker
continuity in the supply chain were to be compromised because you know the the foundation the root of the supply chain is is no longer compliant with just three months notice then you could imagine that there would be enormous consequences for everybody upstream but i i think what you're saying is that that was never a risk it might look like it but it was actually never a risk is that right yeah we're we're certainly not aware of any sort of major changes that are going to be causing any issues to our members, whether that's laying hen or or the other sectors. um And there's nothing from memory in there um about, and so yes, it's a three month notification letter.
00:11:02
Speaker
As with all species standards, if there's something that um ah might take longer to implement is a bigger change, then as always, we give much longer notice and that's kind of worked out through those consative consultative discussions about you know what would be an actual appropriate time period. So, feedback we've had there isn't anything like that. Yeah, Kate, thank you, I understand. am I right in thinking if I'm a supermarket and I've got RSPCA-assured marked eggs on on the on the shelf, and if I'm to use that that logo, then you know the the chicks that turned into the laying hens that produce the eggs do need to come from
00:11:39
Speaker
an RSPCA-assured hatchery at the point that they are that they are hatched. And therefore it's critical that future changes. You know, there's a hand in glove approach with a very, very small number of actors that are producing the chicks that are ah assured.
00:11:55
Speaker
Have understood it
Compliance and RSPCA's Supportive Approach
00:11:56
Speaker
correctly? Yes, absolutely. and we're very cognisant of that in not just in standards development, but also in compliance and understanding the criticality of that supply chain. So when we're looking at um if, for example, one of our hatcheries had some sort of issues ah from a kind of welfare perspective and so and from a compliance perspective, our approach would be to work really closely with them, support them to rectify those compliance issues um and if you know if it got to a point where ah it was you know significantly critical, we would never sort of leave the end-to-end supply chain um sort of hanging and in a critical state. So we're here for the overall sort of hen welfare end-to-end and we will always work with the um supply chain to sort of help support that um ah that compliance sort of in life and as we develop the standards.
Role of Information Boxes in Standards Direction
00:12:58
Speaker
It's i mean certainly a an interesting standard, I'd say to anyone that's listening to this that um that is involved in hatcheries, to have a look, even if they're not an RSPCA-assured hatchery.
00:13:09
Speaker
Because in it, you have you have your main standards, but then you also have a number of of eye boxes which provides points of information um and um areas that you might be looking at at at various points in the future um different types of technology that you're considering and and in a lot of them you're you're actively seeking to consult and and seek input from people in in the hatchery. mean, one thing that I've found was was quite interesting ah for my area was um that you talk about the feed and water provision in hatcheries and and actually how you're potentially looking at that um being a mandatory thing at some point in the future to to look after the health and welfare of birds in in hatcheries, because at the moment that's certainly not something that is that is standard in in all hatcheries across the UK. But... um
00:13:59
Speaker
How should producers react to these um iBoxes? Because I think for some of them, they have the standards and they think, right, well, I can do that. And and all the things that I'm being asked to do, I can do. But maybe there's there's five things here that are big red flags and that potentially within five years could impact my business quite significantly.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yeah, no I could definitely understand that comment. And I think it's something that um we're very aware of. So ah in terms of that kind of function of information boxes, what we are going to try and do going forward is to make it clear what we're actually meaning in terms of, is this just for information? is this for an auditing purpose, for example? Is this future direction or is it aspiration, which is a bit kind of longer term? So we are looking to make that a lot clearer going forwards. But in terms of the rationale for including those kind of and aspirational um requirements, because standards yet, they have to be met. um Part of it was based on kind of feedback from from members across the board that actually they would quite like to know where we're heading. um So they don't have any surprises. They don't sort of go down a certain direction. And then we might turn around say, oh, actually, no, we didn't know anything about this. Hang on. That's not acceptable to us. So part the reason for putting it in is that. And also um it is just signaling an aspiration. So when we're putting these in, we genuinely do want to consult on this. We want to hear from industry experts. We want to hear kind of their views, what they're thinking of. um Because if we can work together in that kind of more collaborative way, then hopefully we can get to a a stage with standards in whatever area we're looking at, for example, that are kind of meeting our aspirations, but are also working practically for people. So they're not something that's going to come in, you know, in the next iteration of the standards, but it's kind of signaling this is where we'd love to end up.
00:15:50
Speaker
Let's start those discussions. let's Let's find out that information. Let's get this ah you know data or whatever it is, and then actually come together and again, go back through that kind of more formal process through STAGS, et cetera, or standards technical advisory groups.
00:16:05
Speaker
And at that point, when we'd be looking at kind of actually drafting some standards, but this is very much that this is what we're thinking. Let's start that engagement and see where we go. Do you see those?
00:16:17
Speaker
Sorry, Kelly, please continue. I was going to say many of our members um are sort of pioneering already in our aspirational standards. So by indicating this in the um in the documentation, in the standards themselves, actually it's a really great signal to say, you know, come talk to us about this. We can sort of work with you on trials. and help give that evidence base at a commercial level into as as a sort of an addition into this or standards thinking as well. So we know lots of people already doing the things that we're looking to bring in in the future. It's about how that can be done um at scale, I guess.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a fantastic thing that those iBoxes exist to give the the members a little bit of insight as to where we might be heading. And your point is well made that there are those that are already there. I think, what would you say to members who were concerned about the potential risks of you know investing in a technology? Because quite a lot of this stuff that's in iBoxes, it represents, I would interpret, quite heavy capital investment. and or or or effort in R&D, et cetera. But anyone who's who's reading the standards and thinking, well, gosh, if the ah RSPCA actually conclude that what it is that I'm looking to do is somehow going to be non-compliant in the future, or I'll sit on the fence and I'll wait, that that could be to the detriment of of welfare in the medium term. what what would your What would your message to members thinking that way be?
00:17:43
Speaker
I think it would be, I mean, the areas where we've kind of picked out in these aspirational um ah these eye boxes that kind of signal our aspirations are very much, we've already come, we're already at that starting point where we we want to go in that direction. So if it was something that probably we weren't as keen on, we probably would already be saying that
Encouraging Early Communication and Industry Alignment
00:18:04
Speaker
if that makes sense. I'm probably not wearing that very well, but it's, so I suppose it's it's the general message is please come and talk to us because ultimately if we don't know what what people are out there doing, it's very difficult to have that conversation. It might be that, I don't know, someone's implementing some new technology,
00:18:19
Speaker
if they talk to us early on, we might be able to influence and kind of say, oh, actually, if you tweaked it in this way, that would be much, you know, more um that would sort of meet our standards or what we're trying to achieve with our standards much better. Whereas if we don't hear from that at all, people might get, you know, quite far down the road going in a certain direction. and it might be too late at that point. And it might just be a sorry, we, you know, that's not really going to fit with our standards. So I think the earlier we can have these conversations, the better.
00:18:45
Speaker
and And do you think if in the in the stag group, again, the standards technical advisory groups that you you hold, there's a difference of opinion between, you know, your aspiration and the aspiration of industry?
Incorporating Industry Feedback while Maintaining Standards
00:18:56
Speaker
ah Will you take on board what the industry say and do and adopt? Or will you, you know, did you take a three line whip and say, well, it's our standards if you choose not to comply, then, you know, sell your eggs with with or or chickens or whatever um without without the logo? How? yeah I, of course, infer to or refer to to um you know the laying hen standards of 23 and the feedback, the noise around the launch of that time to say, well, actually, we were on the STAG committee. This is what we said. And though that feedback wasn't adopted, accepted, it's gone out of the window, if you forgive the pun. um Yeah, I think so. So the role of the STAG is that advisory group. So it is to gather that information, to gather that evidence, to get that feedback. And obviously what we're trying to do with them is get to the point where, um so we might be wanting to move ah you know in a certain direction at certain speed, but we have to move slower, for example, based on their feedback or go in a slightly different direction. So the the purpose of those groups is to kind of understand those kind of practical limitations and the sort of the feasibility side of things.
00:20:03
Speaker
But ah ultimately, as sort of the standards owner, if you want better phrase, the RSPCA, they are our standards. So we do have to make that decision as to ultimately what we go with. But certainly the intention is to, through those discussions, is to bring those members with us.
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah. And we you know, yeah we're we're an independent standard and we're here the only standard. that is wholly about um animal welfare. And from a consumer perspective, we know that from our surveys, YouGov surveys, that 85% of consumers are looking for um their products to be assured from a sort of animal welfare perspective and have that reassurance that the animals have
RSPCA's Commitment to Animal Welfare
00:20:43
Speaker
had a good life. So this isn't this is an independent way of continually driving and focusing on animal welfare, but we do want to bring people with us and do that in a way which is commercially viable and sustainable for the industry, but um but you know but challenging us to go further for for laying hens and and Turkey, etc. and That's just one thing I was thinking about when I was reading the standards and and I suppose drilling down into the detail because as you say, as scientific research and understanding moves on and ah the standards grow and become more demanding,
00:21:22
Speaker
Do you think um looking forward that it's that it's potentially going to be viable to have one standard that covers all sorts of different species? Because I'm thinking about there's some things in the standards regarding egg age, for example, and the impact on hatchability and um and and quality of um of of chicks or pullets which are coming out. and And actually, depending on which supply chain you're in, whether you're in and laying hens, whether you're in meat chickens or whether you're in turkeys, you can end up doing quite different things with egg age and um and actually the bird itself will react quite differently, whether it's a pult, you know which are which are which are famously very delicate and you do really need to take care of them um compared to, but certainly probably compared to what I would have said as a sort of a Hubbard JA 57 or 87, which actually ah are ah relatively more more robust. But do you think they will get to a stage where where maybe this standard has to be split up into into different species?
00:22:15
Speaker
i mean, potentially. um i think it's one that um they've been combined since since they were first written um and that people have probably seen they are quite short compared to other standards. They're not, you know, as sort of lengthily. I think it's just with this new hatchery stag, we're kind of seeing how that goes. I think there's definitely short term work we could do to make it clearer in the standards what a sort of general and then where there are things that just apply, for example, to a particular sector.
00:22:44
Speaker
I would say, based on the discussions that we've had so far there, we haven't identified that many areas that aren't necessarily common to at least one poultry sector, but that's not to say going forward that there could be value in separating them out. It's it's a work in progress with all the standards. And I think based on the feedback we get from our members and sort of discussions at these stags, we can we can look at that going forwards.
Closing Remarks and Reflection on RSPCA Standards
00:23:10
Speaker
Kate and Kelly, it's been fantastic to to have you back on the podcast. Thank you very much indeed for getting in touch, um for for correcting us where where we we needed sort of setting straight and for for explaining that today.
00:23:25
Speaker
Thank you very much.
00:23:33
Speaker
Very good. That was an interesting chat, wasn't it? Yeah, it it it was. it was i you know i keep coming back to just how few hatcheries, again, in the in the laying side of the industry there there are to include and just how critical it is that all parties come together and and have an open and lasting, constructive dialogue if um If every egg that carries the RSPCA Assured logo on the shelf counts on the the accreditation of just a handful of firms, a handful of operations, then you know we can't do anything that jeopardises the continuity of that supply chain.
00:24:15
Speaker
and And this is a standard that's that's a very broad church, isn't it, encompassing laying hens, meat chickens, meat turkeys and and and ducks.
00:24:26
Speaker
But actually, in terms of um percentages of of RSPCA product, in terms of the the meat sector, um it's ah you know it's it's a well-established proportion, but it's but it's the minority of of production if you look at UK production as a whole. Whereas for the egg sector, it is it is almost everything, isn't it? So that's why I think that that the egg sector has reacted potentially in the way that it is, because it it really is a ah big deal for them potentially if if if if things go wrong.
00:24:57
Speaker
It really is. In fact, um there will be vastly more eggs produced to to the standard than are actually marketed to the standard, because simply of old, that's been the way the free range egg industry has has has grown. Yes, there there are um routes to market.
00:25:15
Speaker
um that that don't require RSPCA Assured. And so there will be entire businesses where the RSPCA Assured team never never set foot. But in the majority of cases, um even if only ah a relatively small proportion of a and a packing business's trade is is heading into an RSPCA assured label box. Often their entire supply base is accredited to the same standards because it just eases friction and improves kind of liquidity in the in in the trading environment. So
00:25:49
Speaker
and You know, the consequences of of um this ah assurance scheme and the accreditation of those handful of members at hatchery level, um you know, not maintaining those standards, I think ah could be very, very far reaching for an awful lot of people. I'm sure, however, and and Kelly and Kate have been fantastic in explaining that.
00:26:09
Speaker
you know their intention, their aspiration for improving the communication through the STAG groups, again, there's the standards, technical advisory groups, um specific for hatcheries, as well as each of the other parts of the of the chain. I'm sure that um yeah parties have come together and, um you know let's say, normal service will ah will resume.
00:26:30
Speaker
We shall see. um Yeah, it's certainly interesting that they've taken the step of setting up a specific hatchery um stag group. Yeah, I can imagine that the labs have some interesting discussions there and and hopefully that puts them in ah in ah in a better place going forward than than they have been in terms of consulting with the with with producers.
00:26:52
Speaker
We will all um yeah keep ah keep a close eye on it and we will welcome the guys back in in due course as further developments take place. It sounds like with the with the eye boxes and the forward-looking um yeah indications, then there's still quite a lot of change yet to ah to come about. So we'll, I'm sure, all learn together. i look forward to that.
00:27:12
Speaker
Great. All right, then. We'll see you next week, Tom. Until next time.