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Man Utd BAN media outlets and managerial merry-go-round for Sunderland
36 Plays1 year ago
Join Killian and Nathan as they dissect Man United's bold move to ban some media outlets from press conferences and discuss who Sunderland could choose to replace Tony Mowbray. Get ready for fresh insights and engaging football talk that goes beyond the headlines!
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Transcript
Welcome to Nada Punda
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm not into podcasts. I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again. What a hit. Back of the net. Hello and welcome to the Nada Punda podcast. I am Killian Ginnity and I'm delighted to be joined by the almighty, all-knowing Nathan Byrne. Nathan, how are you doing? I'm doing very well, Killian. How are you? I'm great.
What's sparking the latest episode?
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm delighted that for once both of our teams are in the news, hence why we're doing this episode. Finally, Man United has done something worth chatting about alongside the mighties on the land. Yeah, it's not exactly something that I'd want to be talking about, but sure whether or not we might as well. So let's pretend that our listeners haven't been paying attention to the sports news. What's been going on on the red side of Manchester?
Is Ten Hag losing control at Man United?
00:00:58
Speaker
Same old, same old in looking at United, typical team leaks coming out, which we've become accustomed to really at United, seeing managers get leaks put out in the media against them and stuff like that. In the last 24 hours, 48 hours, we've seen a number of leaks saying that 10 haggers lost the dressing room, which is quite interesting.
00:01:27
Speaker
yeah it's it's led into that sort of big tobacco we had earlier yeah so like losing the dressing room has been often talked about with man united going back since furry left really every manager but like
Ten Hag vs Mourinho: A Management Comparison
00:01:44
Speaker
I don't know if it's just me, but this has been the most, Tenhag has had the most consistent allegations of this since Mourinho. Now people expect it with Mourinho because he seems to like target a new player every year, but with Sancho, Maguire, like Ronaldo last year, Tenhag seems to have a little bit of form and
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah. Is there any credence to us or why has this blown up in particular? Cause like we have been chatting about this for the last few months, really. Well, I think probably from the outside looking in, it does seem like there's been more when it comes to 10 hack and 10 hacks at the day with a number of more incidents, shall we say.
00:02:32
Speaker
But I do think it's been consistent over the last, the reason through Evangel is there's been consistent leaks in the media to certain journalists and stuff like that, that the club really haven't put our marker down. And I think today we finally saw them put their foot down and go like,
00:02:50
Speaker
Listen, this isn't on. And if you're going to publish stuff that are like quite, quite serious allegations, like in terms of quite serious and in terms of football and that like this and you have to come to us for comment first. And in my personal opinion, I think that's a fair stance to take. Well, this seems to be the part that's most different from any other time we've been chatting about this is
Why ban journalists at Man United?
00:03:20
Speaker
They've banned journalists for basically saying something that they don't like. I disagree with that.
00:03:29
Speaker
So just to add a bit more context, they banned Samuel Luckerts from the Manchester Evening News. They banned Rob Dawson from ESPN. They banned a Sky Sports journalist and they banned a Mirror journalist today. Okay. Now, let's clarify something before we go on. Is it a ban or were they disinvited? And is it just the journalists or is it the outlets as well?
00:03:58
Speaker
And to me, it seems, it turns out the second one is the media outlet book to answer the first one. Listen, it doesn't matter what sort of name you put on it. They got banned from today's press conference. I just mean like, are they not going to be allowed in future or is this just kind of a slap on the wrist?
00:04:20
Speaker
That really hasn't, like I haven't heard anything past today's one that suggests that they will be at the next one or won't be. It's just more this one that we really know the details on as they did get banned from this specific press conference.
00:04:37
Speaker
and it just seemed to be media outlet based so Sky wasn't there, MEN wasn't there, ESPN in the mirror. But to go back on what you originally said was it about them saying something the club doesn't like?
00:04:57
Speaker
This could be me being biased in whatever way, but I do feel like if you're going to publish something that, you know, needs to be really well sourced and stuff like that is the basics is you go and ask the club for comments so they can add any additional context or give their opinion on it.
Media Etiquette and Club Relationships
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's good etiquette.
00:05:19
Speaker
to do, to do, like give them the right reply. Like you can, as I've seen plenty of outlets do, you can kind of give them a timeline, kind of go and listen, give you 12 hours so they can come back or give you six hours or, but especially if you're trying to keep in good with a team, like you don't, I think for a lot of people, keeping in good with a team sounds as if you're going to just peddle propaganda for them.
00:05:47
Speaker
where in, I think it's more like clubs can handle and anybody can handle bad news or something that you don't necessarily like. If it's being done in a reasonable way, don't make accusations without evidence. If it's something scurrilous, well then allow us to kind of say our side of the story. But I think it's just another media failing by Man United.
00:06:16
Speaker
to let it come out and kind of let it come out with the way that it did, it makes my United seem more desperate and a bit more kind of on the defensive than they need to be, in my opinion. But I think this step sort of needed to happen. I know specifically in the last, I say, year specifically, there's been a good few stories that were released around United that have had zero validity to it.
00:06:44
Speaker
And some have actually been proven to be untrue. So is it not a time for the club to put their foot down and go, listen, if you're going to print these, not allegations, but big news surrounding the club. Saying that the manager's half the dressing room is such a huge thing to say is, should you not go to the club and then ask for their input on it? And as you said, give a time frame around it. But these journalists did not.
00:07:14
Speaker
i think this proves that sancho is the perfect man united player because they just seem to go to the terminal nuclear option first i think they if they had a manager that had a bit more media savvy and a bit more of um a wyliness to him he would have come out first and kind of said lads
00:07:36
Speaker
that's just not true or come on now I know you you print some bits that aren't a hundred percent and I know that and you know that before doing any bands or like just put out a little notice kind of go listen these stories have gone out we completely refute them in future please stop or we will have to look at our relationship with your outlet I think just by going straight to a band if it's done on a Fergie
00:08:04
Speaker
it would have come across different because he had that kind of dictatorship hold. But with the way you imagine it has been over the last few years, and it's not just a figurehead thing, but there just seems to be so many leaks coming from that ship that it's coming across, at least to me as a like a non-invested layman, as a kind of a desperate last ditch kind of, like it's very Glazer's behavior, put it that way.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yes and no. I do think my personal opinion on it, and again, I am biased, is I think it did need to happen specifically with some of the journalists involved. Now, whether that's right to jump straight to a ban, I don't know, but Ted Hyde came out in his press conference and said, we try and work with these journalists very closely, which they do. The club have a great relationship with a number of journalists.
00:08:59
Speaker
And they go ten hikes, specifically said he felt some of the journalists went behind their backs. Behind the backs was a bit of a weird comment to me for a number of reasons. I didn't expect him to say it, but he did. But I do agree that if you're going to print these, you need to get them validated.
00:09:25
Speaker
the club might come out and go no comment on this or it's not true but at least you've got that line but to go and go print it and then not ask the club for comment and then not expect them to have an opinion on it is in my opinion just sloppy journalism i think and who might say that you know what i mean but that's how that's as a layman
The Pressures of Modern Journalism
00:09:46
Speaker
that's how i take it
00:09:47
Speaker
Oh, no, I get that. Like it's it's one of them kind of things you kind of expected from more local style journalists. It like we are in a in a news round that is 24 seven longs. You're always trying to get the next angle or the next opportunity before anybody else. And I get that. And I appreciate that. I agree with what you're saying about they should be going to the club. They should.
00:10:17
Speaker
And I think that the ban itself isn't necessarily the wrong decision. I just think how they've gone about it is wrong, and that they're going to come off worse than they could have. They've taken the option that hurts them more than it hurts the journalists more. Because what now they're kind of doing,
00:10:37
Speaker
If you were to be conspiratorial, it's kind of like, oh, I'm not going to, like, we've all seen it. Like, you're on socials. It's always them journalists that are a little bit too in the know, but they'll never say anything bad. It's kind of going, oh, you're, you're, you're on the paycheck at the club or whatever, that kind of idea. And Tenhag has kind of admitted that and it's now kind of like, right.
00:10:58
Speaker
can you trust anybody saying something positive about the club anymore because are they doing that on the worry that they might get the band next? I know that's kind of a little bit probably OTT but for a lot of avid fans and like it's the same with like political journalists like that you have the allegations that kind of going oh you're too close to the TDs and all that or whatever it's that kind of idea of kind of going
00:11:26
Speaker
Is it better for you to carry the parity line than it is to speak out and actually say something that is against the club but in the public interest just so that you can keep in with and stay around the club? It now opens them up to them allegations, which leaves them in a much worse position.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, I do think so to a certain extent. I also think that the journalists did come out of it not looking too good. I know they received a good bit of backlash online, which, you know, everyone sort of expected that. But I do think one of the big things is, and I talked to some of my journalist friends and Robbie from Not a Pundit, the thing is,
00:12:14
Speaker
it does come across a bit like that sort of day one journalism if you get what I mean. It's like you go and get a comment if you're writing a piece about something or you at least offer the chance to comment on it. Now, I don't think they'll make that mistake again, but I don't think it's a matter of fact that you can't write anything bad about the club. It's just you got to give them the chance to reply to it, which I think in my opinion is just a fair way to go.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah, I just mean in terms of the fans, I think some journalists now will come under more questioning from fans that aren't as
00:12:56
Speaker
willing to see the good side to the club. Like every club has these fans that it's always negative and it's always the worst thing in the world. And the Glazers are the villains and tonight is crap and the players are terrible. And this isn't the United of my day and all them kind of people. And it's kind of just adding fuel to their fire where it didn't need to. I think, I think it's just re it's yet again, you know, it just being sloppy, just, they don't have.
00:13:23
Speaker
they don't seem to either have the systems or the experience or the savviness to kind of go about these things in a way that will actually benefit them. Like, if they came out kind of going,
00:13:39
Speaker
We don't like this. We think clubs should be, like, they could be seen as forerunners for kind of going, no, we're going to hold journalists to account again. Like some of these guys are just rushing in to get their tweets, to get their interaction and forgetting the journalistic integrity. That's not how they kind of went around with this. Like one of them is kind of a, a noble crusade. You kind of go, ah, you're making a bit of a mountain out of a boho, but I get it. Whereas now they come across as petty.
00:14:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's two sides of the coin. I think the specific journalists that are in question are what I would class as journalists that would write things to get interaction on social media and stuff like that. I have no problem saying that because that's my opinion on it. The thing with United is negativity sells in the dozen.
00:14:32
Speaker
And that's the issue with the club is a lot of these journalists have personal relationships with players where they get information and information leaks out
Man United's Internal Struggles
00:14:40
Speaker
and stuff like that. And fans do take it.
00:14:44
Speaker
And in the last couple of years, especially, I've taken huge offense to that. It's like leaks coming out of the club. Why are players speaking out against the manager? It happens at United. I don't even know if it really happens at other clubs at all. I don't really see it as much. But at United, there's a huge culture of leaking to the media and talking to the media, betting the manager and the way the club's run and stuff like that. And that's just not good for anyone and the rest of them.
00:15:13
Speaker
So that's a lot about the manager though. You wouldn't see that happen in a Pep Guardiola team. Pep keeps them on a tight leash. But Kylian, it's happened to the last six or seven managers. It's not just a ten-hike issue. Which one of them managers would you come back to though? Van Hal, he was a nutcase. Ollie was nice but out of his depth.
00:15:36
Speaker
Jose always goes after players. David Moyes was the right man at the wrong time. None of these appointments were the kind of guy that you kind of go, do you know what? The players are going to fucking love this guy.
00:15:52
Speaker
But that's not an excuse for a leak into the media, is it? Because when you think about it, like... But that's the reality of the world that we're in. So if the club isn't hiring... Why is it happening on Manchester United? Because the players and the people surrounding the players, whether that's...
00:16:08
Speaker
their agents or family or stuff like that is there's a huge American ability in Manchester United where people make money off negative news and it really does happen. I think that's such a big issue at the club and I don't know how to go about this but it's something that they have to stamp out quite badly is people selling
00:16:30
Speaker
Selling stories and going to the media with stories is a huge issue and I do think it's something that the club really need to wake up to that's happening, which they do know now, but it's not a manager issue, it's a club issue. This has happened for the last seven appointments. It's something that needs to be stamped out quite seriously.
Why did Sunderland sack Tony Mowbray?
00:16:56
Speaker
And on appointments, Sunderland has the news that we've all been waiting for. Sunderland has sacked Tony Mowbray. Were you surprised or was it even on your radar? I know, an absolute dreadful decision, you know.
00:17:11
Speaker
What a great job you've done with Amadiello last season. Amadiello said in the summer he'd happily come back to Tony Mowbray. He's a really good manager dealing with your own players.
00:17:28
Speaker
To be honest, I think it's a decision that could come back to bite Sunderland quite heavily. From what I've seen now, I know you've said things to me about style of play and stuff like that, but he seemed like a very set-up manager and a manager that got Sunderland to quite a healthy position. Whether he's the man that couldn't push forward or stuff like that, I don't know, but it could have been jumping the gun too early, but it might, like, only time can really tell. What's your sort of opinion on it?
00:17:59
Speaker
I kind of think you hit the nail on the head, but I don't think, or he was showing signs that he wasn't going to be the manager to take things forward.
Sunderland's Youth Strategy
00:18:07
Speaker
Like he did amazing last year. For context, just before the season started, Alex Neal left Sunderland to go to Stoke. Got a much better deal there. Alex Neal wasn't happy with the structure of Sunderland being
00:18:25
Speaker
Director of Football led, we have a head coach. You are given players, you play in a way that's kind of agreed more than what you want. So you're being brought in because you play a certain type of football, as it should be. And you get given players and you deal with that.
00:18:45
Speaker
Mobre was happy to deal with that, and then he kind of wasn't. So there seems to be a bit of an ever-growing rift. Now, during the summer, Carol Louie Dreyfus, who is our owner, and Christian Speakman, who is our director of football, Speakman was at Birmingham. He was the head of youth development there and brought through Jude Bellingham. Hence why we have Job.
00:19:09
Speaker
And our owner Louis Dreyfus is only 26 but his dad used to own Marseille and he grew up around Marseille and was like a boot boy for Florian Tovans so he's like an avid footballing head.
00:19:23
Speaker
But he's a businessman, first and foremost. And their whole kind of ideology is to bring in young players on a good deal and sell them for bigger money and grow the club that way. Very organic, very self-sufficient.
00:19:39
Speaker
In that kind of planning for the future during the summer it was kind of I've seen a report as kind of door window shopping other coaches and one of them being Faroli who's now the coach at nice who are kind of flying high and legal and best and PSG a couple of weeks ago tree to it's a very good coach and he's been linked again and I don't think mulberry particularly like that Now I've seen
00:20:05
Speaker
some articles from Sunderland based or Northeast-based journals about something and they're very against the ownership and the whole kind of structure but these are the same guys that hired Tony Wilbrey. I think one thing we've seen is this structure can work and it does work in the family. We've got Bright and he were really good at bringing through young prospects and eventually moving them on and stuff.
00:20:35
Speaker
I think Sunderland's issue is they're doing it in the championship and it's just like how long is it to bridge that gap until you can go into the championship or go into the Premier League is a matter of the fact that the only way you can really get out of the championship is by throwing money at the issue.
00:20:50
Speaker
And I think that could be certainly a thing. But to me, it seems like a bit of a weird timing to get rid of a manager. And I know you said there were window shopping in the summer, but I'd say to you, in my opinion, you pull the trigger in the summer or you just let Mowbray have a season. I don't know what your opinion on that is.
00:21:11
Speaker
See, I think it's either one or two things. They either have somebody lined up that could be a deal under the table ready to go or like a shortlist and like you don't pull the trigger without it being somewhat either one or the other being somewhat ready to go in some way shape or form or which I find quite refreshing is they're being proactive. They're not allowing a rush to set in. So over the last few weeks,
00:21:39
Speaker
Like, not a Sunderland striker has scored in the league yet. We have very young, as of yet, unproven strikers and the game planets seem to be
00:21:50
Speaker
get his Jack Clark and wait for him to do something. And I think with that coming up and with us now three points off playoffs, having been in the playoffs last year on our season back to League One, from League One up to the championship, that the ownership are possibly kind of going. Listen, before we allow ourselves to fall down the table and for anything negative to get in,
00:22:15
Speaker
Let's just move on while everybody's happy. Do it a little bit early so that we're not allowing any negativity to set in because that was one of the big, big things with something that for so, so long was like Lee Cattlemole and John O'Shea became these figureheads in the dressing room because they outlasted six managers, seven managers. And I think that's a really bad place to be in. Like when
00:22:41
Speaker
was that Rafa Benitez went into Chelsea as an interim, I think it was Drogba and Terry turned around and said, listen, we run the dressing room. We should never be in a position where that happens. And I think an ownership being proactive rather than reactive to that should only be really seen as a good thing. It's a very different way than Sunderlander used to. And I'm kind of excited about that.
00:23:06
Speaker
The timing is interesting though. There's a busy Christmas period coming up where I feel like the ownership could come out of it looking very silly or very smart, you know what
Future of Sunderland's Management
00:23:18
Speaker
I mean? It's a huge period. Oh yeah, it's a high risk, high reward though.
00:23:23
Speaker
Like, if they pull off a really good hiring now, it could fire us up the table, well into the playoffs, possibly push for an auto. Like, I'm not expecting that, but if we can get somebody in soon, early window, I would be expecting, say January 2nd, 3rd, 4th, be a good birthday present for me to have a new manager in and then just push on for a playoff push. It could be a masterstroke.
00:23:53
Speaker
Now it could be to Ireland's been as well. Cause I would definitely take Mulberry as, as Ireland manager plays good football, likes to use love as a biscuit. Nothing wrong with the man, but have you seen any of the names linked with the job? No, this was going to actually, I need, I need to know who's in, who's in the foreign line now to possibly get the job. Okay. So I'm going to go for the bookies first, just because it's a much longer list.
00:24:21
Speaker
Let's do bookies first and then I want your top tree. Okay. Okay. Well, see, there's the bookies and then there's apparently the front runners. So 40 to one, Steve Bruce, your man. Take him. 28 to one, Neil Warnock. Jesus Christ. 25 to one, Nigel Pearson.
00:24:46
Speaker
It's not a great start, but we'll keep going. No, this is where things get fun, though. 20 to 1 Thierry Henry. I don't see that happening. 20 to 1 Patrick Vieira. Then I'd be excited about that. 20 to 1 Roy Keane. Box office. 16 to 1 Frioli, who is the niece manager. Oh, yeah. 14 to 1 Kevin Phillips, son of a legend.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah. 14 to one Frank Lampard. Jesus, I'd say for our way. 12 to one Lee Carsley. You know, that could be a show. 10 to one Nathan Jones. I don't think he, I think he's too much of an ego to deal with our structure. Yeah. 10 to one Graham Potter. Jesus. I love that man.
00:25:47
Speaker
six-to-one John Eustace, three-to-one Paul Heckenbottom and was earlier one-to-one Julian Sable, who is the assistant manager to Feroli at Nice. So when Lucian Favre
00:26:06
Speaker
when Lucien Farver left Nice, Didier de Garde was the caretaker who was the former Middlesbrough midfielder, but technically Sabley was because de Garde didn't have the pro license but Sabley did.
00:26:20
Speaker
That's a bit of a, that would be a managerial job. That'd be a very, very Sunderland, like, bear in mind, this isn't what most people would think of Sunderland anymore. Like you've done the football manager say, if we have signings from PSG, we have signings like really clever ones from West Ham, we're like getting the, from Tottenham, like we're picking off these guys that nobody really thinks of and making them do something good.
00:26:46
Speaker
So it would be very Sunderland now, but in the last few minutes, talks about have tweeted saying that the two main names are on the two-person shortlist is Julian Sabla, who seems to be the most realistic because of the other person being Will Still, Reams head coach and football manager legend, 31 years old,
00:27:11
Speaker
his team had to pay a 25,000 euro per game every time they played because he didn't have the pro license. Twitter was ablaze with that for weeks on end. But the compensation that they'd have to pay being the stumbling block.
Modern Coaching for Sunderland
00:27:28
Speaker
Oh, it's all very exciting names, though, I have to say, like, apart from, like, hecking bottom and the usual kind of bookies flinging them in because, oh, he just lost a job this week.
00:27:41
Speaker
Steve Bruce is in the list, but he's not close. That's good news. Don't be surprised, Steve Bruce can pull out some...
00:27:49
Speaker
some master classes, you know, for now. I nearly crapped myself earlier. There's a Twitter account called Slow Sports News, and it's all branded up to look like Sky Sports News. And I came up, Sunderland in talks with Steve Bruce and a link. And it was like breaking news. I was like, oh my God, no, no, this can't be true. Click it. The article is from 2009.
00:28:18
Speaker
Squeaky bum time does not cover it and on that note we have hit squeaky bum time and we are coming to the end of the show.
Personal Picks for Sunderland's Next Manager
00:28:26
Speaker
Nathan, thank you so much for bringing us through the United news as it is. No better man, no better man for the information on all things United and I'm just delighted we got to talk about Stoneman for once. You didn't answer my question. Oh. Who's your top man for Stoneman?
00:28:44
Speaker
Really, in Speakman I trust, whatever he thinks, I trust his judgement wholeheartedly. I would love Will still for the memes, it'd be great. Roy Keane would be box office, but like with our Ireland manager chat, either Lee Carsley or Graham Potter,
00:29:04
Speaker
like I take either Graham Potter being my first preference because I think it's the perfect structure for him like yes you'll have to get rid of the Chelsea money and he won't be on that money again but like where else is he going to get this reasonable size club in a reasonable level that will pay him decent wages but has a really good young
00:29:24
Speaker
prospect team that you like to work with, you like to work with personalities, you're well used to working under a model of selling and buying young and with a director of football. It just seems to be all made in his image. Yeah, Graham Potter would be my choice. I know it's very boring because I say it on most podcasts on any managerial position, but I think he's very good.
00:29:50
Speaker
We've got it down here. I think the listeners are well and truly cleared up. Like listen, like he went to Sweden and he made it there. Like if you can do it on a snowy, snowy, snowy night in Hampstead. I can put it that way.
00:30:14
Speaker
True, true. But yeah, no, I think it's an interesting time for something and I'll keep a close eye on it. Yeah, you're going to keep a close eye so that it doesn't affect your the January update for Football Manager in case you go at them again. Yeah. But Nathan, thank you very much for joining us on this Tuesday evening. And thank you very much to our listener. And we will be back with another episode later on this week. You're getting double trouble. Ooh, look at you. Chat to you then.
00:30:44
Speaker
Bye.