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Episode 63—Bronwynn Dean Talks Marijuana, Gonzo Journalism, and the Power of Performance
126 Plays8 years ago
"You have to see the value in the end product enough to make yourself suffer," says Bronwynn Dean. This episode is brought to you by Hippocamp 2017, a conference for creative nonfiction writers. It takes place in lovely Lancaster, PA, and runs from September 8 through September 10. Spots are still available for the third annual conference, so if you want to check out speakers like Tobias Wolfe and Dinty W. Moore, you better sign up! Hippocamp: Create. Share. Live. Bronwynn Dean stopped by the podcast to talk about the power of performance and her work-in-progress about the world of marijuana. It's titled Potted. Her work has appeared in Pitkin Review and Soundings Review. She cites Hunter S. Thompson and Tom Wolfe as major influences, and I think you'll dig how she was able to be the only one of about forty writers at a recent conference to land an agent. What went right? What was wrong about the other 39? Good stuff. Okay, friends, you know the drill: Please leave a nice review over at iTunes and sign up for my monthly newsletter where I give out my book recommendations. It's short, to the point, no spam. Share this with a friend and sit back and enjoy Bronwynn Dean.
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Transcript
Introduction to Hippocamp 2017
00:00:02
Speaker
This episode of the Creative Nonfiction Podcast is brought to you by Hippocamp 2017, a conference for creative nonfiction writers. Set in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Hippocamp enters its third year and goes from Friday, September 8th at 9 a.m. to Sunday, September 10th at 5 p.m.
00:00:25
Speaker
and for Hippocampus magazine and conference founder Donna Telerico. Her goal was to create a sense of nostalgia for summer camps of yesteryear.
00:00:38
Speaker
great feeling of camaraderie after you spend a lot of time with like-minded people. So I just thought we had a built-in name with Hippocamp. It's part of our magazine name. It also is a summer camp type feeling. So I just thought it was perfect. But we do have the subheading, A Conference for Creative Nonfiction Writers, because we want to add a little bit of clarity for people that aren't familiar with Hippocampus, if that makes sense.
Conference Highlights and Speakers
00:01:06
Speaker
There are several breakout sessions still available for registration as well as slots at the conference at large, but they're quickly running out. If nothing else, I mean, check out that headlining keynote with this guy named Tobias Wolf.
00:01:21
Speaker
I was really excited. We did have to go through a speaker's bureau and everything like that, but to find out that he was available was fantastic. Mary Carr was our headlining keynote in 2016, and she was a student of Tobias's, so I think that might have helped a little bit during my MFA program. That's when I first read This Boy's Life, and that really resonated with me. We have some similarities in our childhood upbringing, so just
00:01:47
Speaker
Personally, for me, I'm excited, but I'm trying to think more on the positives for attendees, not just myself personally, if that makes sense. It's the third annual HIPAA Camp. Visit hipocampismagazine.com and click on Conference in the Toolbar for more information about the conference. HIPAA Camp 2017. Create. Share. Live. Let's do the show.
00:02:18
Speaker
Whoa. Did you just hear that? Pretty rad, huh? I'd say it's roof-worthy.
Meet the Host, Brendan O'Mara
00:02:26
Speaker
That's right. It's the Creative Nonfiction Podcast.
00:02:30
Speaker
The show where I speak with the world's best journalist, essays, memoirs, radio producers, and documentary filmmakers about creating works of non-fiction. I'm your host, Brendan O'Mara. Thanks for listening, CNFers. This week, we're coming at you with Bronwyn Dean.
Bronwyn Dean's Work and Insights
00:02:48
Speaker
whose work in progress is titled Podded, a collection of essays following the marijuana industry from the underground through legalization. Podd is legal in Oregon, and to give you an idea of its prevalence, think New York City Starbucks. There's a dispensary on practically every corner in Eugene, so we'll see how long that lasts.
00:03:08
Speaker
Here we are for episode 63, and we talk about the value of performance in a piece of writing, which led to her hooking an agent, so that's very important, navigating conferences, the influence of gonzo journalism, and maintaining a sense of play and adventure throughout the writing process. Be sure to follow her on Twitter, at brawnwinhdean,
00:03:34
Speaker
That's B-R-O-N-W-Y-N-N-H-D-E-A-N. Reach out to me as well at Brendan O'Mara. I'm not gonna spell it.
00:03:45
Speaker
Before we get rolling, I ask that you leave a rating. It's a simple click on iTunes, or leave a nice review. It's even better. It takes about 60 seconds, and once you're logged into iTunes, it's just bang, bang, you're helping out your buddy. They're adding up, and they really, really help. So thank you for that, if you can just take a moment to do that. Can't stress how helpful that is. So what do you say we just get on with it? Here's Bronwyn Dean, friends, enjoy, and thanks for listening.
Promoting Work and Networking
00:04:19
Speaker
So it's shaking. Dude, I'm trying to stop my book. I have an agent interested, so I'm like, let's do this. Yeah. You've been going to a lot of these conferences lately, which has led to complications in us scheduling this talk.
00:04:39
Speaker
Tell me a little bit about what you've been doing and the nature of this hustle to get your work more visibly seen by people. Well, I'm discovering that it's necessary, of course. I think that face-to-face interaction, people want to hear what you have to say once they get to know you. And that's definitely the case
00:05:08
Speaker
The last conference I went to was the Mendocino Coast Writers Conference. I participated in a pitch panel and one of the agents was like, this is great and I think I could totally get this by New York publishers. And then she came up to me afterwards and asked me to send it to her.
00:05:29
Speaker
Nice. So why don't you talk a little bit about your what you're working on and and then like maybe how you went about this pitch that that baited an agent.
Exploring 'Podded' and Writing Process
00:05:43
Speaker
I have a nonfiction essay collection. It's called Potted a Cultivated Life and it follows the evolution of pot through legalization and kind of my evolution along with it.
00:05:59
Speaker
I've spent a lot of time in the underground weed industry and then into the legal side of the weed industry and just seeing how it's changed. So offering a little bit of an insider perspective on that. And it's definitely something that people are interested, you know, of course nationwide, not just in, you know, the states where we have legal, legal weed.
00:06:30
Speaker
And particularly like the underground perspective because they want to know like, Hey, what's it actually like? So I think one of the bigger things that hooked her was that I do have sort of a voice and a leg to stand on. I'm not just like someone trying to write another pot book and I've, you know, I've taken the time to learn the craft of writing. So again, not just another sort of stoner wanting to write a book about weed.
00:07:00
Speaker
because I've compared it to, like, hillbilly elegy meets weeds and that definitely got a laugh. So what is that underground culture like? Well, I've had to learn to just, you know, take the gloves off and really just be super openly honest and not be afraid of that because I've worked in some situations that were certainly less than legal.
00:07:31
Speaker
And just having, I've always been an observer, so being able to take in just the whole scene of what a trim scene is actually like. And there's a certain level of rebellion just that sort of holds that whole scene together. And there's a certain type of person, I would say, that is interested in that.
00:07:59
Speaker
and feels compelled to work in that environment, so they make for interesting characters. Did you experience any pushback from people you were writing about? I've had some pretty open interviews, and I definitely don't identify anyone that, you know what I mean? And I mean, to be honest, there are a couple of sort of composite characters that just sort of
00:08:28
Speaker
personify what a typical weed boss person comes off of. So there's nothing really identified. Those people want to talk. They want to tell their story. They're not the kind of person that's going to be featured in the news or being given any sort of voice. So everyone I talked to was actually really
00:08:59
Speaker
really interested in telling their story. That echoes the point that Lee Gookin was talking about a couple weeks ago when I had him on the podcast, is that when you're doing this type of work and this type of writing, it's not important enough that you want to write about these subjects as interesting as they may be. You actually have to find people who want to be written about.
00:09:22
Speaker
So that's great that you were able to, like, how eager were these characters in this unpublished manuscript? How eager were they to speak to you and to try to get those, their voices heard in ways that, you know, from other publications that might just turn a blind eye to them? So just to clarify, like, I don't, they're not really like interviews or features in my work. It's more like,
00:09:51
Speaker
It's more my interpretation of who these people are and how they act. So it's not really like I'm doing little feature bits about these people. It's more like I just have regular conversations and or interactions with them. And then there's some sort of story around that.
00:10:14
Speaker
So how did you cultivate these relationships and then how did you go about the reporting slash research part of it so that you can have the raw material to shape a story? The relationships all came about through some sort of work interaction with most of these people, either me trimming for them or
00:10:41
Speaker
somehow, you know, just dealing with them in the weed industry. So there, you know, it's definitely an industry where it's based on trust and it's based on personal interaction. So you get to know these people, they open up, they start telling you things, you know? So it's more just been based on like this interpersonal work relationship over time. And then the story has just come out of like,
00:11:10
Speaker
Oh, well, this is a crazy thing that happens when you trim for a long time. And this is how people end up breaking down and just stuff like that. So yeah, it was never, there was never like a point where I was like, Hey, I'm writing a story about you. It was just like, okay, well I'm a writer and pretty much everyone I interact with is fair game for ending up in a story. And, you know,
00:11:37
Speaker
they sort of have that understanding, may or may not realize that something that I'm writing about is actually them. Because I definitely, you know, there's nothing that stands out as like, this is this exact person.
00:11:56
Speaker
Did you, throughout this process, experience any fear or reluctance to write about anything that might be deemed sensitive?
Crafting a Compelling Pitch
00:12:09
Speaker
How did you navigate those waters? Right, so that's where I made the decision to make it mainly my interpretations. I definitely didn't want to
00:12:25
Speaker
pin anyone for anything that may or may not be legal. But I decided to jump in as far as my own experiences and like, hey, this happened to me at this point and this may or may not have been legal at the time, but this is what happened. At what point did you realize that you wanted to write about this? I started writing stories about
00:12:53
Speaker
things that were important to me and then sort of made the connection that they all had the common thread of somehow being related to weed. So I was like, Hey, you know, this might work. And then more of them came about and then I sort of shaped some more of them. Um, when I started putting them together and realizing that they could be a collection, I was like, well, Hey, maybe I need to,
00:13:19
Speaker
do a piece that directly relates to the economy because I don't have something on that or, hey, this thing just happened to me where I got ripped off and this is a story. So then just sort of started tailoring the rest of the collection because I had a few pieces that were clearly like Ollies could be together.
00:13:41
Speaker
So what were the, as you start to piece and stitch all this stuff together, what were some of the challenges that you experienced in trying to make something that is, in some way, that has that cohesion to it, even though it's, you know, a book of essays like Short Stories isn't sort of as narratively bound as something that is just,
00:14:06
Speaker
a novel or pure narrative nonfiction, but in this case, there is some glue to it. So what challenges did you experience as you were trying to organize the entire work? Definitely trying to see it as an overall project. Like I mentioned before, trying to find the pieces that were missing. And that took a little while to sort of realize
00:14:36
Speaker
OK, if I'm going to approach this subject as a whole, I have to represent all of the sides. I can't just have my side, even though they are all personal essays. On the pieces that are more journalistic, just really reaching to keep my voice
00:15:04
Speaker
consistent throughout because it's pretty humor-based and trying to find humor in some of the drier subjects was a challenge. Well, what were you reading at the time to help inform this project and maybe what did you read that helped inspire the vision of this manuscript? Inspirationally, I think just going back to
00:15:35
Speaker
the classic Gonzo style journalism where you're just like, hey, anything goes. And actually the crazier and the wilder and the funnier is even better. So I definitely, I went back and reread, you know, some Thompson, some of his older stuff, just for like, okay, here's how to really get in the facts, but also make it really funny.
00:16:05
Speaker
Let's go back to the, you're in that pitch room where you were, where you were selling this as hillbilly elegy meets weeds. Um, what was, what was your pitch and just how was that received? And just kind of take it, take us there and tell us how, walk us through that. A note to anyone that would be doing that. I went to observe the first day of the pitch panel just to see,
00:16:32
Speaker
what was working and what didn't and what kind of feedback the agents were giving. That was really helpful because then I went home, I had some sort of concept floating around that I hadn't really sat down and actually written a pitch before then. I mean, I just laid it out there like, okay, I gave my credentials like, hey, I've been involved in the underground and
00:16:59
Speaker
doing the comparisons, they really like that because they want to know what their potential audience is going to relate to. And they want to know why, of course, that you're the person to do this book. I was just really open. And I think getting that laugh, you know, that helped.
00:17:21
Speaker
being relatable, not just having, you know, being super dry. And like my book is about blah, blah, blah. Yeah. That's a hard salary. Yeah. So when you, when you were listening that first, that first day, what did you notice was good and what did you notice was bad from some of the pitchers? Bad was easier to notice because it's easier to just fall into that, like,
00:17:49
Speaker
giving a basic plot synopsis and that's important. But also you have to remember you have two minutes to either have them say, hey, I'm interested or no, I pass. And like two minutes is not a lot of time. So a lot of people wasted that time and just started going into like, this is all my book and these are all these characters. And then you're just like, whoa, I don't even understand what's happening. That's too much information.
00:18:19
Speaker
So the distillation, I think, was crucial. I'm fairly certain I'm the only person out of 40 people that pitched that actually got an agent to want to read their work.
00:18:36
Speaker
And did you treat it like this is more of a movie trailer versus these bullet points of cool things that you think are cool? Like you set it up in such a way that like, Oh, this is a huge hook and now you want to know more. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a fair way to put it. The movie trailer image, but not, I didn't really like leave anyone hanging. I think I gave more of like the feeling like, Oh, you know,
00:19:06
Speaker
I'm speaking from the voice of a generation of people that followed the Grateful Dead and traveled the country on the motorcycle and are living outside of the law. Maybe just that in itself was compelling. What put you on the motorcycle to travel the country? Let's unpack that a little bit.
00:19:31
Speaker
Oh, man, you're throwing me some right hooks here. I mean, wanderlust, you know, what else puts you on the back of a motorcycle? Right. Well, I think you said that you once you grew up in Pennsylvania, right? So so what was how did growing up in Pennsylvania eventually put you on a motorcycle and ultimately led you to Oregon? Well, I mean,
00:19:58
Speaker
I didn't ride the motorcycle, the Oregon. So just to be clear. Um, I just, um, I mean, I had, I had parents that were adventurous. I think we were always hiking. They were definitely always reading. So just having that sort of, um, permission to adventure, I think I never really lost that. Um,
00:20:25
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, you know, getting out of high school and jumping on the Grateful Dead bandwagon, it was just a place to go and travel and see people and have experiences. I guess I just continued that and was like, hey, I've always wanted to go to the West Coast. And then you come out here from being in sort of draconian political state from the East Coast and you're like, hey, I'm never leaving.
00:20:55
Speaker
Um, I mean, I think that, that sort of sense of, I definitely follow some of that, like from my teenage years and my early experiences with weed. That's something that, you know, the adventure thing is definitely an undercurrent of the book and just that willingness to, to live outside of what is deemed normal. When did you first start to cultivate a love of language and reading?
00:21:26
Speaker
Um, that's funny. I mean, first, first is probably, I mean, I had like this image of me reading green eggs and ham, just being like, whoa, this is great. And I can read these words and I understand them. And, you know, they're, they're making me have a certain feeling. And like I mentioned, I mean, I, my parents were voracious readers,
00:21:53
Speaker
And it was just always something that was done. Aside from Green Eggs and Ham, which is great, that probably taught you a sense of how fun and playful and rhythmic language can be in a lot of ways. As you started getting older, what were particular books that really just hooked on to you and that you maybe still have a relationship with in some sense?
00:22:22
Speaker
I mean, a big one for me was electric Kool-Aid acid tests because that was one where I saw that, you know, it was okay to tell the whole story and talk about drugs and sex and rock and roll. And just, I mean, that one like blew me open was just like, I'd go back and read that one still.
00:22:46
Speaker
I love hearing people talk about the book that all of a sudden turned the world from black and white into technicolor. That was a big one for sure. I forget who I was speaking with, but she read, it might have been Color Purple or something, and she was like, I read that and all of a sudden I realized what could be done.
00:23:11
Speaker
paint by numbers type thing like it just unlocked what books and writing can be and it's great that Electra Kool-Aid acid test like I think that's a real formative book for a lot of people who do narrative nonfiction and that has seemed to overlap with a lot of cultures and counterculture that you find just Immensely interesting and ultimately what you're writing about here Yes
00:23:38
Speaker
Perfect. That's interviewing 101. Just like that. Just say something obvious and stupid and then let it hang. So what was the next logical step when you started reading that kind of stuff? At what point did you're like, oh yes, I need to start putting words on the page and become a writer myself?
Writing as a Vocation
00:24:01
Speaker
I still didn't really like
00:24:04
Speaker
give myself permission at that point. I mean, I was fairly young. I read that book in the end of high school and still was like, oh, well, I need to go to college and do the straight guy stuff and get a teaching job and all that. I mean, I journaled pretty heavily and definitely took in experiences, but I didn't yet at that point
00:24:33
Speaker
give myself permission to actually be a writer, like I wouldn't have considered it to be something that I could do. Yeah, what was that moment like when you realized that this could potentially be a vocation for you? Well, realizing that it was a compulsion later on in life, I mean, had kids, did all that, I went to
00:25:03
Speaker
I got a journalism degree thinking that that was at least some sort of a viable profession, which is funny. And then just realizing that like writing these forced kind of stories wasn't making me happy, you know, like getting an assignment and having to go out and find something interesting about something I didn't particularly care about.
00:25:32
Speaker
It wasn't doing it for me. Right. Like, you know, covering city council meetings or anything. Like, what's an example of something that like you got an assignment like and you were just like black? Yeah, I mean, I never did any sort of actual beat like that. I was more at least blessed with doing arts and entertainment stuff, but still just.
00:25:59
Speaker
being told what to write about, I guess, was more the issue. And then sort of, you know, honing the skills at that point and like getting the chops down and then realizing like, wait, I want to tell my own stories. Like this other stuff is boring.
00:26:18
Speaker
You brought up the permission word a little while ago and when did you finally allow yourself or grant yourself the permission or who granted you the permission to start to pursue stories that appeal to your taste more instead of something external? A few years back, I sort of thought I could take on the world and start in my own publication. You know, it was fun and all.
00:26:48
Speaker
But I learned then that people responded to what I had to say. Of course, that's encouraging. And then out of that publication came a writing slash reading group that still sort of exists. But we were all sort of finding our way in writing and decided that if we did it together and made each other
00:27:19
Speaker
do it and actually perform our pieces that it would light the fire under all of our asses, so to speak. Starting to perform work in front of people and getting that response and having people come up to me and say, hey, this was really meaningful for me, and you just said a bunch of things that I wish I could say or wish I knew how to say. So I think that that sort of collective
00:27:47
Speaker
enthusiasm was like, hey, I can actually do this. People actually care about what I say.
00:27:54
Speaker
and i think this this performance aspect of it i think ultimately i think that kind of practice and then seeing the reactions of the people you're performing in front of ultimately maybe the reason why what you're the one out of forty people at your pitch conference that has courted in at least intrigued an agent where other people didn't because you you can actually you could probably
Engaging with Writing Communities
00:28:23
Speaker
Convey a certain sense of energy that maybe other people aren't who aren't as well rehearsed You know they can't yet, so how important was maybe this this this performing aspect to maybe? landing landing this agent I think performance is 100% like important you have to
00:28:47
Speaker
And enthusiasm, I mean, I have enthusiasm for my work in general, but to be able to convey that and not be the writer that's like, oh my God, I just want to write and stay in my room, but not ever have to interact with people. Writing the book is only, or whatever you're writing is only a part of it. You have to be able to get out there and talk about what you're doing and interact with people and have people
00:29:17
Speaker
you know, want to hear you. So I think that performance is definitely key, like, you know, go to open mics or, you know, whatever sort of even just going to listen to literary events and readings and just seeing how people handle themselves and handle an audience because there's also that that interaction time.
00:29:46
Speaker
at super important yeah you their chase jarvis this uh... you know founder of creative live in a world-class photographer heat he talks about uh... this thing call it the other fifty percent so there's a fifty percent where you are in the room you're writing the book the essays you name it and then you know and there's a big chunk of people use kind of alluded to it that would prefer or kind of wish they can just hold up in your room and
00:30:14
Speaker
the publicity in the publication in the network will take care of itself but the fact is it that's pipe dream maybe that's that's a lightning strike for that to happen the other fifty percent is engaging in community going to readings uh... giving feedback it it it doesn't have to be huge but it is something that you do have to engage in how to you how important is being a member of a writing community
00:30:42
Speaker
Just how important is that to just the core of you being a writer? Also super important. I think, you know, otherwise you exist in this vacuum and you need to have community and some sort of perspective and, you know, workshopping your stuff.
00:31:05
Speaker
It's always good to have more feedback, I think, than less. Because a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want anyone to criticize my work. But learning how to take that criticism and turn it into better writing is super important. And just to have a group of people that know what you're going through, because there's so many days that you're like, I can't write anything, and everything I write is total crap.
00:31:35
Speaker
to have someone being able to relate to that because I mean, writers are definitely a very particular subset of people and you need to have people that understand what you're doing.
00:31:49
Speaker
How do you push through those ugly middles, those crappy drafts, that dark forest moment when you're just in it and it sucks and you're like, you can't see behind you, you can't see in front of you, everything stinks. How do you get through that? How do you push through? Panic. I don't know. I mean, I don't think there's any sort of formula
00:32:17
Speaker
I wish there was that you could follow. You just have to. You have to see the value and the end product enough to make yourself suffer through those pieces. That is where the other people come into play. Even if you're just like, hey, I'm stuck, let's go get a drink or
00:32:44
Speaker
Let's go for a walk or I don't know, just talk me down from this cliff because I don't know where I'm going with this. And even having one person that believes in your work enough to be like, shut up, just go do it. It's oftentimes just getting over your fear.
00:33:02
Speaker
A lot of people have that hiccup or even the gap from the perfect vision inside the head and the final product. There is this gap of what it looks like when you start doing the work. It's really far away from that perfect vision and oftentimes that can
00:33:21
Speaker
That can just totally handcuff you. Have you had any of those experiences where you just kind of felt, for lack of a better term, a little bit blocked because what you had in your head wasn't manifesting itself on the page? I think it was more a matter of realizing that what I was getting down wasn't authentic enough. I needed to keep going deeper, and that's really scary.
00:33:48
Speaker
you know, I would have one sort of level of truth and then read it and just be like, well, this is total BS. Like I need to tell the reason why. And I need, you know, I need to go more into what's happening here and what's the, the psychology and where, where was the breakdown. And, um, that often has to come in layers because you're not ready for all of that at first.
00:34:18
Speaker
And you've been to a lot of conferences of late, and I suspect you'll be going to more. How do you build that in to your life? It goes back to that sense of community, but how important is it for you to find time and money to make these face-to-face introductions? Well, I mean, that's a struggle still. I wish it wasn't. I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship for
00:34:48
Speaker
the Mendocino conference. So it was just a matter of me getting there and taking the time out of my life. But I would say that it was absolutely crucial. And even just meeting other new writers that are getting stuff published, that are doing stuff, that are running literary magazines. Like it's all, it's all a network. And honestly, like you have to, you're going to have to know someone somewhere, ultimately.
00:35:18
Speaker
to be able to get something read or something, you know, published because it is often a game of like, oh, well, hey, I met her and she's super cool and I'm actually going to take the time to read her work instead of like this 500 other pieces in my slush pile right now.
00:35:40
Speaker
What would you tell somebody who feels like doing the networking and the conferences and stuff like that? What would you say to someone who feels that that's in any way like icky or slimy? You're going to have to get past it. Maybe start with the smaller ones because I made the choice actually between this small, more intimate conference
00:36:10
Speaker
instead of the really huge, you know, Willamette writers, which was, you know, which was just going to be pretty much a circus. And starting with the intimate ones where we're actually sitting down sharing meals together, where we're actually like going to the evening events, listening to readings together, drinking wine together, you know, like being able to have the conversations. The smaller ones, I think would be better for that.
00:36:40
Speaker
especially if you were sort of, you know, nervous and I mean, everyone's nervous, but yeah.
Balancing Writing with Life
00:36:51
Speaker
So when you're in writer mode gearing up in a generative phase of your work, what does your routine look like in the morning as your or whenever you choose to write? Like, how do you warm up to the day so you can feel like you've been productive?
00:37:08
Speaker
I don't have a formula, and I wish I did. I wish I was one of those really motivated and scheduled kinds of writers, but that's not my life right now. There's just always stuff, and I have to make the conscious effort to wade through all of that stuff and be like, hey, I need to spend at least an hour today working on something.
00:37:35
Speaker
So how do you find that one hour, if possible? What do you think? Are you looking at a planner and you're just like, all right, there's the hour and I'm going for it? No, I really wish I was that organized. I often, to be honest, it ends up where I get to this frenzied state
00:38:01
Speaker
And I realized that the reason is because I haven't allowed myself the time to sit down. So yeah, it usually takes me getting to that super wound up state. And if I take a breath, I'm like, well, you know what? I know the reason why. And as soon as I sit down, the frenzy goes away. And I just have to block everything out. I have three teenagers.
00:38:30
Speaker
a bunch of random jobs and I have to just make it happen and turn everyone else off. I feel like I'm always writing in my head or I'm always at least observing and taking in. I always have a notebook with me for those things or the notes on my phone. There's always a snippet of conversation or
00:38:56
Speaker
You know, just like the way something looks at a particular time that strikes me enough that I'm like, I have to write this down because this is going to be something or it's at least some sort of inspirational starting point for me later. So you're never not writing when you decide that you're a writer. Yeah, that's really important. What kind of notebook do you keep with you?
00:39:20
Speaker
I mean, whatever. Usually like a little small one that I'll fit, like I always have it in my purse or my bag or whatever. And if I, for some reason, don't have that, there's always the notes section on your phone, like always.
00:39:37
Speaker
Right. So what are some books or books that you revisit from time to time?
Inspiration and Aspirations
00:39:44
Speaker
Like you had mentioned electric Kool-Aid acid test earlier. Are there any others that you keep on your shelf that you're like, Oh yeah, that's, I go back to that one again because I need to be reminded of what can be done. Um, yeah, I mean, I hope not to be cliche, but like, I can open up like maybe sort of any page of any Dillard and just read a line and be,
00:40:07
Speaker
you know, transported, you know, or like Rebecca Solnit. I've really gotten into a lot of, you know, the women memoirists that are just sort of, they have no fear. Past year or two, Lydia, you can have edge like the chronology of water is just a tortoise. Yeah. Um, you know, I still go back to,
00:40:34
Speaker
Hunter Thompson just for when I feel like I'm getting a little too soft. And I'm definitely not a poet, but I can pick up the E.E. Cummings poetry book and just read a line of that also and just remember how words that don't seem like they can go together can go together. And Shel Silverstein for the same reason. Just the ridiculousness.
00:41:05
Speaker
It's to remind yourself that it doesn't have to be so earnest, that it can be fun and playful, and that if you're having fun, the reader's going to have fun. For sure, yeah. In your greatest ambitions, in your greatest dreams and visions, where do you see yourself? What would be the ultimate manifestation of Bronwyn Dean's writing career?
00:41:33
Speaker
I mean, I would love to see this book published and I'm working on, already I'm working on some sort of spin-offs from that out of recommendations like a fictionalized version of, you know, my life as a character.
00:42:00
Speaker
hard to explain at this point because it's still sort of developmental, but I, I, you know, I'm also pursuing like being a weed columnist in a couple of different publications. So I don't want to be like pegged as the weed girl, you know? But it's definitely, I mean, you got to have some sort of niche
00:42:27
Speaker
And if that needs to be it, then that can be it. Like Jessica Leahy, who I had on the show several weeks ago, she is the bestselling author of this book called The Gift of Failure. She's a teacher and it's about allowing failure as a major teaching tool.
00:42:46
Speaker
And when she sold that book, her agent, like before it was being developed, and she's like, are you ready to be known as the gift of failure person? Because Jess also has a lot of, she writes columns for Atlantic and New York Times about education, so that's her thing. So basically the contract she signed was, I'm signing on to be the gift of failure person.
00:43:14
Speaker
Proving to be a good choice for her. So that might be something similar I think that you that you're gonna or are wrestling with now be like, all right. Well Am I willing to be the weed girl for for my writing career? It might be good for a certain chapter. It might be great for your entire career who knows but that's probably something you're wrestling with now I take it. I'm certain that it can evolve Yeah, I'm also interested in
00:43:41
Speaker
Pursuing and teaching career because that's something that you know, I definitely had those motivational teachers along the way So you kind of want to pay that forward? Yeah What were what who were some influential mentors for you? And what did they how did they put gas in your tank? I mean, I probably definitely started in high school just the literature teachers that could recognize that I had just like
00:44:10
Speaker
this overwhelming need to desire like all of it. There was actually in college, there was a performance art teacher that sort of ignited that whole like, I mean, I don't, I don't consider anything I do like spoken word, but just to be able to stand in front of people and say your work. And that was pretty, pretty influential.
00:44:39
Speaker
And he gave such power to words and just having that profound realization of hearing a word said a particular way, like how it could make me feel. So when you write, do you have a propensity to write for the ear? Yeah, and I've tried to tone that down a bit because it doesn't always translate to
00:45:09
Speaker
what someone's gonna read on the page as smoothly. Cause yeah, when I first started just writing my essays, it was definitely with the thought in mind that I was going to be reading it out loud. So there were definitely more pauses and more breaks and I've been learning to scale that back a little bit, but also to still give it like enough breath that
00:45:37
Speaker
you know, people can feel okay about like, Oh, I can stop here for a minute and two on that. Where in the process do you feel most alive and most engaged? I mean, definitely when you're having a good flow day when it's like, okay, I've got five pages, pretty solid stuff here that maybe just needs a couple of rounds of editing. Um, I feel like a lot of my stuff that,
00:46:05
Speaker
I mean, at least in the past year, um, it's, it's been preforming for so long in my head that when I finally get to the point where I'm writing it down, like it's almost there. Like, you know, it's like, it doesn't need much change just comes out. Um, and that's pretty exciting. And what would you say you struggle with?
00:46:35
Speaker
I think maybe the ability to slow down into scenes, because I sort of like to have these kind of compact, efficient stories. And a criticism I often get is like, oh, I'd really like to see this drawn out in more of a scene. So being able to translate what a reader actually
00:47:05
Speaker
would like more of instead of like, I just want to tell this short and sweet story and get it over with kind of thing.
00:47:13
Speaker
And are there any little tools or exercises that you perform, you know, writing exercises that you perform to sharpen the saw, so to speak? Like things to keep you sharp and, you know, a little practice, like a baseball player going down in the basement and swinging 500 balls off the tee. You know, just this is something of that nature. Is there anything you'd like to employ?
Improving Writing Skills
00:47:41
Speaker
I think actually reading other people's work, I've been teaching some classes and just like when you do go to a workshop or something and you have to give feedback on other people's stuff, I think seeing what works on other people's pages and what doesn't work really tunes you in a little better to things that you might have overlooked in your own.
00:48:11
Speaker
I would say reading other people's stuff.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:48:15
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, Bronwyn, thank you so much for coming on Creative Nonfiction Podcast. This is a lot of fun getting to dive into your work a little more. And as your manuscript progresses, we'll have to have you back on when the thing starts to take shape and get bound between two hardcovers, hopefully. That sounds like a plan. Awesome. Thanks so much, Bronwyn. Thank you. All right, talk to you later. OK, bye.
00:48:42
Speaker
That's a wrap friends. Big thanks to Hippo Camp 2017 for the sponsorship exchange. Be sure to check out the website and go attend the conference.
00:48:54
Speaker
breakout sessions, pitch sessions, amazing keynotes, and a chance to meet your fellow CNFers. Dig the episode, share it with a friend, and pass along the message. Also, one last call for reviews. Head over to iTunes and help a CNFer out.
00:49:12
Speaker
If you peruse today's show notes for the Bronwyn HD'n episode, or any of them for that matter, check out my monthly newsletter. That gives you some reading recommendations and what you've missed in the world of the Creative Nonfiction Podcast. Man, that is it. I'm a bit out of breath, so I need a week to recoup. See you next week, friends.