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Let's Talk About Sex Appeal in Games | Firelink Podcast
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This week on Firelink, Marty, Nick, and KC chat about the good, bad, and weird uses of sexuality in games.
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Transcript
Introduction and Support
00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast is brought to you by us. Since Second Wind operates 100% independently, we rely on your support to help us continue delivering the great content you love. Consider checking out our Patreon if you want to access ad-free versions of every podcast, plus your name featured in our video credits, as well as other exclusive perks. So if you like what you see, hear, or smell, maybe, visit our Patreon page and become part of the community today. Now back to the show.
Hosts and Topics Overview
00:00:33
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Firelink Podcast, episode number 39 for Wednesday, October 2nd, 2024. My name is Marty Sleva, joined by Casey Wosu, Nick Calandra, and of course, producer Eric and Hachi Machi. Oh my gosh. Do we have a show for you all today? We got a couple of good news bits that I'm excited to talk about, including Star Citizen.
00:00:57
Speaker
ah CitizenCon is coming up soon. We're going to get some big old updates on Star Citizen, ah which might come at the detriment of Star Citizen developers having to work seven days a week for the next few years. No, next few weeks. I don't know why I said years.
Gaming News and Humor
00:01:12
Speaker
It might be years. We're going to talk a little bit about ah the house that built Star Citizen. i We'll talk about Bellastro coming to mobile, which um I know is ah it's a big event in Nick Lander's life, but also just a big event in I'm seeing a lot of people who are like, oh no, this is going to ruin and ruin my household ah by having this on mobile. We've been playing a bunch of stuff. And then as you see here, our main topic, we'll be using the the recent news of the Stellar Blade update, which is adding even more realistic cleavage ah physics.
00:01:44
Speaker
to the character, along with Hideo Kojima revealing the Death Stranding 2 photo mode, which is ostensibly creating a photo shoot with the ah actresses who are in Death Stranding 2, and sort of using that to springboard and just talk about what's going on with sex and games.
00:02:02
Speaker
We pro, we con. Who's doing it right? Who's doing it wrong? How do we feel about the the idea of titillation? This was a Nick topic, let me tell you. Casey and I were like, we want to do something serious. We want to talk about the industry, maybe journalism. But Nick was like, no, I want to talk about titties. And so we're going to mix it. And what Nick says goes, as you all know. Let's go. I know this was not. I don't want another video of my face on it. This was a topic. I thought it was great. I'm always, I'm always down to talk about this. I think this is a fun topic, honestly. Yeah.
00:02:32
Speaker
And I think we have three very different, uh, I think we have three different points of view on it. So I think it'll make for, for something fun. Uh, how are you guys
Gaming Culture and Terminology
00:02:41
Speaker
doing? I'm sorry. I threw you under the bus, Nick, but I also pulled you out from under of the bus. So I just want to play on one of America's heroes. I think this topic was specifically chosen because I had to check out of my Airbnb today and go back to my parents' house. And so I, my dad, you know, if my dad ever ever walks by the stairs and hears me talking about Gooner stuff, then it's your fault.
00:03:02
Speaker
I mean, he'll probably just be like proud, right? Like, yes, finally. My son is talking to him. He's finally made it his career where you can tell him. He's going to have to make a t-shirt for this.
00:03:19
Speaker
bago rule squa this squat ah
00:03:27
Speaker
I can't see how it's Goon Squad going for you. um It's actually going pretty well because, yeah, I'm not going to have a ton to talk about in terms of like games I've been playing because I've really only been playing Zenith Zone Zero and that game is just all Goon all the time.
00:03:40
Speaker
Was this the only single way to be like, how do I convince them to talk about themselves and throw some more shit away? And this is like genius, yeah, that's good. When did goon become like a phrase for this? I got it from you guys. I don't know, actually. I don't know where it came from either. I only just started seeing it on social media. Yeah, I see it everywhere now. Yeah. Yeah. Now we know who's online on Twitter too much. That's not me, because I don't even know where that came from. I first heard goon, I think, in 2008 on the Carter III.
00:04:09
Speaker
I mean, no, that's, that's not the same. Those are, those are doing goods. So when he says I go by them goon rules, he's talking about something else. That's just came full circle. Cause I was, this whole time I've been thinking goon squad was geek squad at Best Buy, but it's actually geek squad, not goon squad. No, it's a good squad, but they just, they they call it your CPU.
00:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, is this is a new era of goon. Like the goon I grew up with is not the goon that the internet has right now. yeah That's how they fix the thermal paste on my GPU. Oh no.
Community Support and Impact
00:04:47
Speaker
And then before we get to the news, including Sussy Guru, thank you so much for a five-year-old donor. Remember, all of your your super chats, your donos, your patronage especially, that that all goes towards supporting us for all the weird shit
Sexiness in Media and Games
00:05:01
Speaker
we do. The edited videos, the podcasts, the written columns by Darren, the very strange series we have going on like Battle Masters and a lot of other great stuff behind the scenes so we appreciate all of you sasy guru thanks for the donno we need more sexy anthroes in games
00:05:19
Speaker
i feel like we have those in the indie space which we'll talk about when we get to the main topic that's a triple a where trip a needs to grow up, site which is interesting. I've talked at length about how movies are getting less sexy and sexless and people are getting kind of pearl clutchy when it comes to younger generations. are good This was like a whole study that was done and came out a little while ago about kind of the ah Generation Z ah outlook on yeah sex in media? I think they even said like one of the bigger movies of the summer was Twisters. And without spoiling Twisters, there's like a um main guy and a girl and they're both really good looking and they have chemistry, they never kiss, there's nothing, they never have sex in the movie. And at the end, they filmed the two of them sharing a kiss at an airport and then removed it because apparently in test screenings, young audiences were like, either they're kissing, like they fucking fought mother nature.
00:06:17
Speaker
Like, why are they not? Why are they not? They just want to see the kiss of death. That's it. I think i think ah kids just got tired of watching Game
Star Citizen Controversies
00:06:25
Speaker
of Thrones and then having their parents walk in and be like, why are you watching porn? I didn't. Yeah, I mean, there might be there might be something to that in all honesty. The HBO effect because a lot of those series would just. it's a Any HBO series, no matter what it's about, always had gratuitous sex in it. Like it seemed like it was like, we need to justify the the subscription cost by throwing in anyway penguin. You haven't sex to penguin.
00:06:54
Speaker
Like I understand like Colin Farrell clearly like, but, uh, penguin was really bad about it two Spartacus. My God. Yeah. Yeah. That was just soft. they were on air waveve They used to do that. Uh, Raymond Ward with five Australian dollars. Thank you so much. Monthly funding goal. Have Marty joined the hot Monday team to save Del Capone kingdom and have Jess, Jack, Jamaite and Nick save the Del Capone kingdom. Wait a minute. That's night or have them.
00:07:20
Speaker
Uh, Raymond, thank you. Thank you so
Gaming Events and Industry Pressures
00:07:23
Speaker
much. And I know you guys got like some, some hot and heavy don't knows on Monday. Yeah. Folks up connection folks are going in for more dog upon the scene. my god bos as we call like so po a doca goons you know for now on if you send in a super chat you get the goons squash oh but yeah like ah We can say you're loud and heard and Wheels are in motion. Yeah, we're talking future for the future of dokopan and also
00:07:52
Speaker
I kind of want, I'm going to be honest, I kind of want to just stream a bunch of weird Mario party. I want to figure out how to stream Sonic shuffle, which was a Dreamcast exclusive Sonic Mario party clone. That's why I sent the message asking, does anyone know how to use parsec? And no one responded to me. I asked a work question and no one responded to me. So let me just say that in a chat that I can see.
00:08:13
Speaker
Fucking are you not in second wind staff my friend because I feel like you are This party game of all time fusion frenzy Listen, it was pretty like average, right? It's one of those things Like an Xbox kid was like I have it, too That's funny because I didn't have an original Xbox I Oh, you're a fake Xbox boy. Oh, so you. Apologist. a game fake Apologist. I didn't. wait mer At a game cube. Yeah. You do not seem like someone who had a game cube. Well, I'm weird enough for someone. My parents, my parents wouldn't let me buy or get one. And then my mom entered me in a raffle at like a school thing and then I won it.
00:08:58
Speaker
I like this in mind now. Also, that's the lie I told to my parents when I just straight up bought an Xbox. I told them I wanted in a raffle. My mom was the one that entered me in a raffle, not me. That's hilarious. Yeah. I love it. And then Fat Cock. Thank you so much. $10 before we get to the news, as a man of culture, I like goon in my games. No surprise there. Thank you so much, Fat Cock.
00:09:28
Speaker
ah ah Going to our first news bet, so Star Citizen, like I talked about, CitizenCon is happening ah later this month. It is a convention solely for a Star Citizen. The developers are going to be there. All of its fans and backers are going to be there.
00:09:45
Speaker
and it is ah ironic that it's called CitizenCon because I'm getting more and more of the feeling that this entire game is a fucking con. But ah one thing that Insider Gaming has i reported on today is that ah Cloud Imperium Games, who are the developer of Star Citizen, have ah mandated that their employees ostensibly work seven days a week until October 19th which is when CitizenCon is going to be. And they said it's so that they can finalize the the most recent later though i thought latest up-to-date ah patch for Star Citizen, as well as have the Squadron 42, which is the single player portion, which stars every actor under the sun, to have its first chapter ah ready for this CitizenCon. And they pretty much were like, hey, usually we do Friday work from homes. We're not doing that. It's in the office. Also, ah you you all have to come in on Saturdays for the next few Saturdays to finish this up. But we're going to have lunch and dinner. Also, you have to come in on Sundays. But you'll get Monday. You'll get the day after CitizenCon. This is the last... I don't want to talk about like, this is bad practice and more of like, what is this thing? Like, what is this thing? What are we doing?
00:10:58
Speaker
<unk>s It's a very strange and confusing operation there because like this game has not released yet. No, it's technically like in early access and they have been making a lot of progress on if you talk to anybody that actually plays the game. I've never talked to anyone who has played this game. No, so I made twenty twenty four star citizen Harris raised over seven hundred million dollars in crowdfunding. Yeah.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, and I've been keeping closer attention on the game. i I think I said like a year ago, I would install it and try it and I still haven't done that. I will do it at some point. I'm not making any firm dates because they don't either. But but you're getting into the the culture. Yeah. I mean, are you going to CitizenCon? I don't know where a citizen I haven't actually looked up where. How do you have how do you have a convention for a game that
Personal Gaming Stories
00:11:48
Speaker
has not released yet? like I'm assuming this is the first one, right? Like this is another thing that they've already been doing.
00:11:54
Speaker
but This is the first one. yeah the first one Wait, no. this You think this is the first CitizenCon? I'm asking. I don't know. They've been doing this already? They've been doing this yearly, yeah. so let's a first way This is the first year that they're mandating their employees work every day of the week for it. Really quick. I need us to to guess where CitizenCon is.
00:12:13
Speaker
I thought it was an awesome Texas. ah Casey, where do you think it is? I think it's in moved it a city that starts with a B, Idaho, Manchester, England. Where's this dev studio? Apparently this one's in England. Yeah, they have one in England and they have one in Texas.
00:12:34
Speaker
I believe I only have one in fucking finish your game. Yeah. Finish your game, South Dakota. The trailer they showed off for Squadron 42 looked really cool last year. I'm actually hoping we get a yeah actual release date because they said it was content complete. They're in the polishing stage. So how long was it again? Again, that was a year ago and they said it was going to be about another year. So Squadron 42 is the single player game. Star Citizen is the big MMO that's in early access.
00:13:02
Speaker
that they can continue to add to. I don't know. yeah I guess they keep raising all that money for a reason. Who's putting all that money? I'm not trying to be an asshole. What is the difference between this game and
Funding and Game Development
00:13:16
Speaker
what was that game the day before? The one that that you did the deep dive on? I'm not being a dick. What is the difference between these two? Like, why do why do they get the benefit of the doubt? And they i don't think they I don't think they do, but you can actually play Star Citizen now.
00:13:33
Speaker
How much does it cost you to play Star Citizen now? i think i think and don't know it they're early I don't know what the most recent Early Access cost is. Someone in chat probably knows. but i mean like we we We have to to look into this, don't we? like I feel like we cut like it's been so long and none of us still really understand why this is happening.
00:13:52
Speaker
like Like Nick, you said you were going to do it, but someone needs to do it. Like play this game. All right. I will commit to it and I will do an unpacked episode on it. Please. whatever Whatever makes it happen. Yeah. I need to know what the F is happening because that is an absurd amount of funding money. Like there's there's nothing that has raised more money than this. Correct.
00:14:15
Speaker
ah as far as crowdfunding? No, I don't think so. Right. And and there's no AAA game in existence from any of the big companies, including the overseas ones like Tencent or whatever, that have ever spent nearly as much the money on a single thing. The Concord reporting from Colin Mordiardi, which like we're not sure is 100% solid, but Colin usually has good sources, was that Concord was $400 million and that would make it the most expensive game ever. Right. Yeah, that was an absurd number. It was essentially twice that. Yeah. Right. So like we like what? Also, I want to call quick dibs on two things. If the game is bad, I call dibs on Star Citizen. And if the game is good, I call dibs on Star Citizen.
00:15:04
Speaker
skin talk i'll did someone i called them on both of thoses Either, either way, I think I'm, I think I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely just a game. One of all, I will use company funds to purchase and get in there and check it out. I mean, isn't it? How much do we need to pay to pay this game? Is it not, probably 40 hours on steam. Yeah. I was just looking at this. Now you can't get it on steam. Uh, it looks like $45.
00:15:35
Speaker
but I also don't know. on your luers sure oh three more We sure definitely one new airplane hit there's definitely need airplane anchors, clearly. i know get it get in on the gri This is my suggestion. Get in on the ground floor, but get the the most basic bitch pack you can get so that i twitter you're in the world and then see what the rest of the game costs, if anything, for you to like have fun. like i I need to know what that game is. like is it a Is all the fun hundreds and hundreds of dollars?
00:16:06
Speaker
Like, is that how they got there? It is genuinely one of those, I do not know what this... There was a Tim Robinson skit on I Think You Should Leave, where he... ah ah there's There's a woman... Like, a driver's ed class, and they're watching a video of a woman who keeps getting into car accidents, and the the woman keeps keeps saying her job is tables, and the class and the the teacher will be like, wow, that was crazy. Any questions, kids? And they're like, what's her job? He's like, it's tables.
00:16:31
Speaker
And then like later on, they'll be like, seriously, what
Role of Conventions in Gaming
00:16:34
Speaker
is her job? He's like, it is tables. And they're like, we don't know what that means. That's Star Citizen to me. You're just being like, oh, it's Star Citizen. It's a game. I'm like, what is, that's like saying the genre is tables. What does that mean? What is this game? yeah That's hilarious. That's a fucking hilarious privilege. She loves tables.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, look the main way to keep track of it really is just a subreddit which is active every day. and anyway've shown like People are showing off like clips of their gameplay and everything. like You can see the game in action.
00:17:05
Speaker
I keep track of it by, uh, I add it as a news topic twice a year. I make fun of you for it. And then I do zero research and forget the game exists until six months from now. Oh, I feel like star, someone will write about star citizen con in like two weeks. So I'm sure someone will go there. And it'll, it'll be like that British, uh, Willy Wonka experience.
00:17:26
Speaker
I will, I will have here's the star. God comes like, oly god can we send it to Manchester star con? That's not a terrible idea. Honestly, a terrible idea yeah I would, uh, he wasn't busy moving here. That's true. I'm mainly super curious if, if we do get a squadron 42 release date.
00:17:49
Speaker
That's the main thing I'm waiting to see out of that citizen con. And that that doesn't bug you out that they they would release an entire other game before the first game that is tied to it. And so they've been. pitching it since day one, that they were going to do a single player experience and use the tech from that to help build out Star Citizen, which is the MMO. Yeah, but like the way Jigsaw pitches your captivity is, I'm going to kill you at the end of this. So like just because they pitched it away from the beginning of this is making a good thing.
00:18:20
Speaker
Uh, shout out to John Kramer, the jigsaw killer. I dunno. I always maintain like, you know, people can do what they want with their money. Uh, and they must be seeing enough progress to continue investing in this game and funding it.
00:18:33
Speaker
And it's also like, it's so many people's dream game that actually wants to play it. You know, it's just like reoccurring like the people who are into this, are they like paying like a monthly thing or just constantly microtransactioning or you pay, you pay once to get in the game. But I think like, you know, you can pay for your ships and all that kind of stuff. Like it's definitely like a whale culture for this game, clearly.
00:18:56
Speaker
ah But I don't know, I guess like again, my friend, my friend from Nebraska played it and he's put like 200 hours into Star Citizen, the alpha version. And then I've had a couple of friends jump into it.
00:19:10
Speaker
you look the I am not joking. Would that friend be willing to like be on a stream with us? Probably. like that I'm sure that friend yeah has way more to say about this than fucking I do. It could be great if like we had him on a, let's do like a a three person stream. You play the game, we get your friend, and then we get someone most someone like Casey who's smart.
00:19:30
Speaker
ah I'll just ask the questions. Yeah. Just I think we'll follow this up after SZA and go and see, see what comes out of that. Yeah. you worry big is up there you're like This isn't like, gotcha journalism. Like I want people to just be happy. Like folks have been like, oh, the money, this thing and I'm getting stuff and I'm happy with what I'm getting. Then that's cool. Yeah. This this is just a, this is a ah relatively large and wild section of like video game culture that I just have a blind spot for and I am just genuinely curious like what is happening over there like it could be really awesome. I honestly
Legal and Ethical Challenges in Gaming
00:20:08
Speaker
don't know and I wish someone would tell me because I don't have the time to find out myself.
00:20:13
Speaker
ah Yeah, I completely agree. But yeah, we'll keep ah keep following up on that. A couple more Super Chats came in. Thank you so much. Denmark. $2 Dono. Sex appeal in games. Sex appeals to me. Classic Denmark. Classic horn dog Denmark. ah Tommy Salty with 10 Polish devotees. Thank you so much. Funding is hard to get because it all goes to Star Citizen.
00:20:38
Speaker
that was all or other large service game thats Yeah, sorry I haven't been fully paying attention to chat aside from super chats Does anyone chat have it has anyone chat given money to star citizen played star since it is not as like a I'm not Here to call you out judge you or anything just like you might know more about it than we do. I feel like yeah major himo like one of the regulars, I think about it. Uh, you know, who, uh, we talked about the regulars. It definitely was not Dower Dodger, but a member for six months who says, uh, start citizens.
00:21:10
Speaker
Not a believer. Not a believer. Not a believer. Fat Cock back with a $5 Dono scam. Citizen does not believe. Serpanza, thank you so much for the $2 Dono. Man are the people Marty fighting for the small man. Let me just wait because I'm sure we'll get to a topic at some point where I'll be like, listen, people trying to emulate games. Nintendo's trying to save you.
00:21:34
Speaker
Nintendo's doing a good thing by destroying game preservation. So don't worry, you'll you'll hate me by the end of this. It'll be fine. um How do you guys feel about the Nintendo emulation thing? I get it. I get why they did it. I fucking Zelda leaked early and everyone posted pictures of it running on that emulator. That's just fucking get the emulator and shut up about it. Yeah, like that that's doing shit and shut the fuck up. That's an own goal. Like people need to shut the F up. Like if if like if they had what they wanted, then they would have been fine. But what they wanted was attention and attention kills. Attention kills. Attention kills.
00:22:11
Speaker
so does it yeah attention to get you effed up. Yeah. I've always felt weird. The switch emulation in general, because usually like, I don't know. Emulators take a lot of become very popular after the console is kind of dealt with this life cycle and switches during, uh, sound like this. Yeah. I mean, that's, if you want to get into a legal gray area, it's definitely there. And I, you know, if games are leaking through the emulator, I can't,
00:22:40
Speaker
Yeah, ah not to be the good the corporate shill, but ah if if I was a lawyer, I'd be all over that. and Yeah, no, it is. ah Yeah, to me, it is it is two separate things. One, I steal a lot of things and I'm not going to talk about them. Two, and Nintendo saw that Zelda was available via emulation a week before it was available via purchase. And we're like, we're going to burn the earth to the ground. Those are two separate things. um Yeah.
00:23:08
Speaker
ah so Thank you so much, Serbanza. I hope I am no longer fighting for the small man, but fighting for Nintendo. ah John, you've been a member for six months. Thank you so much. Money laundering has the wildest names these days. That's a real, that's an absolutely real possibility.
00:23:24
Speaker
Why not? Just wide and open. The money from the power of Sid and Sakan. Sid and Sakan also sounds like Donald Trump's fucking Bitcoin. Bye, my citizen gun. A red door for the $5 don't know. Thank you so much. First they ignored Star Citizen, then they laughed at Star Citizen, then Star Citizen won. Gandhi is rolling over. It would be
Mobile Gaming Trends
00:23:50
Speaker
wild if this game came out and it was a fucking masterpiece.
00:23:54
Speaker
Right. And then we're all like, maybe we do just need to let them cook. We just need to take a step back and be like, take a decade and and a billion dollars. Just funnel most of that drug money into games development. And it's a win-win. Everybody comes out on top. Yeah.
00:24:12
Speaker
And then Saseguru with another five euros. Thank you so much. I bought a ship like 10 years ago and tried it once when it was a stuttery mess and nothing worked. But do you still have that ship? Can we borrow that ship for our experiment? That ship is like worth a ton now. Like if it was like, who is it? Shannon Sharp, the former football player was like, I came this close to buying like 10,000 Bitcoin in 2005. And my advisor told me not to and I'd be a trillionaire.
00:24:42
Speaker
You could have been like, yeah maybe your ship is worth a trillion dollars. Who knows? I guess going on to another money-making venture, Bellatro, the but beloved card rogue-like from earlier this year. like mobile Mobile deck card game. Yeah. is ah Well, speaking of mobile, it is now yeah you launched a PC earlier this year as well as Switch, and it is now on ah mobile. on on Is it just Apple Arcade or is it you can you actually buy it proper?
00:25:12
Speaker
ah you but You buy it proper. Okay, cool. um I think I have an apple arcade. But ah this it was one of the most addicting games of earlier this year, and everyone was like, oh man, if this comes to mobile, this is going to be our downfall. And Nick, you you loved the game earlier and you're playing it on mobile now. yeah How are you feeling about it it? It plays very well on mobile. Unfortunately for me, who has fallen asleep with it, falling on my face, woken up and played it, and then fell back asleep,
00:25:42
Speaker
ah on the toilet and anywhere I get a chance to play Bellator again and now that I have it on my phone and on a big steam deck or ROG or one of the Legion go it's ah in my hand and being played it is ah just as addictive as Marvel's Marvel snap on the phone and I'm not happy about it but I must have two-hander right Uh, it is, it is, you can technically play it by one hand and you know, yeah horizontally. It's not vertical though. You can't do one thing horizontally. You can cause you just, you just drag the cards or you need to go. That may be also why I'm dropping the phone on my face. So that's a long thumb buddy. One hand horizontally sounds safe. ah Get bigger, better thumbs.
00:26:26
Speaker
I don't, I feel like I'm stuck with the thumbs I have. I don't think you guys can buy them extenders. That's very well that game. ah
Consumer Choices in Gaming
00:26:34
Speaker
you wouldn't That game, uh, $10 on mobile though. And it was on the, it was the number one app on mobile on day one. That dude. Yeah, that's not surprising bank. That is unsurprising life. Yeah. That's which is awesome to me. Uh, like I, I am, I am a, uh,
00:26:57
Speaker
I don't know, a huge fan of just like make that money, make a game people love and then make that fucking money off it. Um, which is great. Like, do you, is there no, this is just a one time purchase. There's no like microtransactions or anything else. Nope. Just a one time purchase game. Nothing. No snowing game store. No, nothing. It's the exact same game you're playing on PC and or wherever you're playing it.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah. Even they even got it for my mom. Has she been playing? She she yeah they have like restrictions on what she can play on her tablet while she's in the hospital, but ah when she gets out, like.
00:27:32
Speaker
I let her, they let her play for a little bit and you could just kind of see the gears clicking in the brain of the addiction starting. And I'm like, this is good. Trying to get your mom hooked on bilateral. Let's go. Yes, I am kind of stutter you a good boy. Yeah. How, how safe of a space is this?
00:27:52
Speaker
um I mean, we're relatively, I mean, honestly, depends on where you go, or where you go next. I don't get it. I don't get it get it. I thought you were. All people don't get a lot. Well, I don't get it. I've never I've never played to you myself. I don't get it. What? But I know because now that it's on because I don't want to say to my computer and play a card roguelike thing, but like now that's on mobile, I might give it a shot. Do it. Marty, how do you not get below? This upsets me. I don't I don't get it.
00:28:19
Speaker
Is there any like deck builder or roguelike thing that you're into? ah's toughest name Marvel snap is the Marvel snap and that's a literally the game and card game. yeah that's ah That's more of a, not a trading card game, but a have you trading card game. Yeah. I tried it on, uh, tried it early this year and then I tried it again on a phone and I just don't, I don't understand.
00:28:44
Speaker
This is not a word I want to understand because I i don't, I have not clicked with a card based Roblox yet. Yeah. I just don't think that's like my genre. Sure. Yeah. But like folks are like super high on this. I'm like, maybe, maybe I'll like it. Maybe this will be the one.
00:29:01
Speaker
I want to try Monster Train 2. I've heard that one might be the one. Yeah. I've been recommending that to you for years now. You absolutely have it. I have just not gotten around to it. I'm playing Zenith Zone Zero. You're playing Smash. I was just playing Smash just before that. I only like playing cards when I was sitting across a man and I could see the life leave his body. When I realized
Classic Games and Modern Influence
00:29:22
Speaker
I just won, I just ruined his existence and I could just see like the energy leave him. That's the only card I like.
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah. Don't think of it. Don't think of it as a card. We put our keys on the table, like fucking bought a casino right now. It was wet. Everything was like, I could have my wife. if You wouldn't say you do that Blancho. Don't think of it as a card. Think of it as a gooning over numbers game.
00:29:49
Speaker
I'm gonna be honest. I goon over a lot of teachers. so There was already a game called number bunchers. I used to play the lunches. Well, let me tell you that was the prime goon and over numbers game. Did you ever play number muncher? That's probably more familiar. That sounds very familiar. familiar let me look it was Like a grid, like a grid, almost like a connect four board. You played a nut. He played it like the titular number muncher and you had to like choose your path based on like, it'd be, uh, five times three and you need to find the 15 and you need to munch it. Right. I,
00:30:20
Speaker
know what this is, I have never played it though. Oh man, that man seen that man was a number gooner. Also, now that Sakurai is wrapping up his YouTube column, his
Upcoming Game Releases
00:30:30
Speaker
YouTube essay series, Number Muncher for Smash.
00:30:35
Speaker
So we got, we want Goku for Smash, and we want number one for Smash. Those are two. Nobody wants Goku for Smash, not really. People who don't like Smash want Goku for Smash. Oh, is that true? You don't want an anime boy getting in Smash? No, no anime boys, no anime girls. If you had to get one anime character. Unless they are from video games. If you had to.
00:30:55
Speaker
No, well, no, that's a game think about that one. No, not because I had to hear what you said. No, that's a game. I don't want anime proper in smash this match the celebration of games. Like I'm a hundred percent with Sakurai on the keep it games only train. Yeah.
00:31:11
Speaker
Like no, no anime. Yeah. They're too weird over there. One of the blue lock boys. Listen, I'm falling for the blue. I'm going to be honest watching 15 episodes of blue lock. I understand soccer more than I have in 37 years. They don't play regular soccer at all. I don't think it's real. Most of the time are they like, Oh my God, I gotta find my monster.
00:31:32
Speaker
know the This is why it' the world's most popular the sport and we just don't know it's great It's so much better than Ted lasso. Let me say I told you watch all Ted lasso of Ted lasso is more like blue lock. I would have loved Crap for another topic Before we go on to full gooning tower Dodger with a hundred yo scholary donno doer dodger you die ah bollacal I'll invest my money in something actually worthwhile. No, it's not Star Citizen. Thank you so much, Tower Dodger. And then Miquel. Thank you so much, Miquel, with 10 Canadian dollars. As both a lifelong enjoyer and developer, if it has none at all, I have no interest. is my second This is our sex appeal, boy. Miquel, don't worry. We're going to be talking about sex appeal very soon. And we have strong opinions.
00:32:21
Speaker
I think that's a perfect
Sex Appeal in Video Games
00:32:22
Speaker
super chat to transition into it. Oh, we'll come back to you. It's called, uh, it's called edging. We just edged the two. Very on brand. Uh, no, we'll get to our, uh, main topic, which, uh, like we were saying, uh, ping ponging off, uh, the, the news that, uh, stellar blade, if you guys have not seen in a recent, uh,
00:32:45
Speaker
update is going to be getting, among other things, they they wanted to fix certain like clipping issues that the game had with with arms and hair and breasts, so that if a character did this, then like the cleavage would react realistically.
00:33:01
Speaker
um This came in the same week that Adeoka Jiba and the Death Stranding 2 team had a TGS Death Stranding 2 presentation on the Sony stage at the Tokyo Game Show over the weekend for 90 minutes. I tuned into it live. Turned out it was not translated into English. There was not a translator on stage and it was really not about the video game at all. It was about them having a good time showing off some jackets.
00:33:25
Speaker
And then also the jackets are several thousand dollars. The jackets are so expensive. I saw them posting all those pics of the jackets online. Those are good ass looking jackets though. Yeah. They're by like a company that like all of their, like the company's website is total garbage because their jackets are so good. They're like, we don't need to invest in like a good website.
00:33:45
Speaker
It's just like our jackets are like two thousand euros a piece. That Kojima drip. He knows what he's doing. cojibi He does. it He knows. But one of the things was that it has a photo mode, as Eric showed earlier, of of ah where it's not just like, oh, the action pauses, and you take a photo, but it's like the characters in the scene are posing like like models would. And so you show like, you know, his his three characters like Elle Fanning and and Leah Sadoo and like posing like that. And so just got me thinking about like,
00:34:15
Speaker
You know, uh, yeah, it always gets me thinking, uh, no, but just about like, where are we at in 2024 with like the depiction of like sex and sex appeal and sensuality and even relationships in games. And I know that's like a real big broad topic, but if you run everything from, you know, Baldur's gate three to Bioware RPGs, to indie games, to the persona and stuff, like, like, how do we feel about it? It's, it's current, uh,
00:34:42
Speaker
It's current status in the industry. in And in that case, you sort of brought this one up from the beginning. Well, I do. It's the Mario thing. and You want to be honest? Like that's the Mario thing. The Mario. I guess it could be both. ah But the this stranding photo mode thing. Like. Technologically, it's really impressive. It also just creeps me the fuck out. Yeah, it's.
00:35:10
Speaker
it's No, yeah like I get exactly what you mean. Like it's really cool that you can sort of play this mini game that just emulates being a photographer. Like you have, you know, real models who are moving around and stuff. You're trying to get a good picture. I wonder if he gamifies that in some way. Like if you get a certain kind of picture, if you know, they scored a certain way or or maybe you just use it ah to share online because that's what they do nowadays. Like, oh, I'm a great photographer for these virtual models or whatever. But yeah, it is. It does.
00:35:39
Speaker
It makes me wonder like, but to be honest, this is just Kojima, like Kojima put stuff in games because he can not necessarily because it serves a greater purpose or because like it it advances, you know, the whatever. Like he just, he's experimenting with the medium and I kind of get that. So let him have, let him do what he wants to do. and and So you can also take pictures of like Norman Reedus is Reedus and stuff. Yeah. I mean, the original, the original game had, you know, where you, if you held the camera at Norman Reedus too long, you would, you would Like a shy. Yeah. Just aim it as crotch. She'd punch you in the face. Oh yeah. And this had everything from like the pinup girls and lockers and Metal Gear Solid 2 that you could take pictures of and Otacon would talk to you to, uh, you could literally, you could take pictures of the the beauties and beasts from Metal Gear Solid 4 at certain points. And they would almost like pose while taking a picture, even though they were scary monsters.
00:36:29
Speaker
Um, so yeah, nothing, nothing new for Kojima and then the same like stellar blade. Uh, you know, by all, I played a little bit of the demo and it just wasn't for me, but by all accounts, people thought it was like a pretty serviceable, uh, uh, action. Yeah. Okay. You're an expectable fighter from what I've played.
00:36:46
Speaker
that that I think gained a lot of its ah conversation around it because of its overt sexuality in a way that was ah weaponized by by certain folks. But um yes it's as leaning into it knows its audience and it knows what it does well. So even like Nier, which definitely sexualizes his characters, it does a similar thing and is partnering with Nier.
00:37:08
Speaker
Yes, because like Yoko Taro says, no waiting for money. But i do I do want to interrogate that whole thing where um it seemed like, you know, the sexualization in Stellar Blade was weaponized, per se, and then maybe that helped its success or whatnot.
00:37:26
Speaker
I'm not sure if that's true, because we've had several other instances of like that same sort of sect of the internet doing the opposite. like they They say, we're not going to do this. We're not going to support this because of it not being sexualized or whatever reason they have. And then it still is fine. I feel like it may have prospered despite that, because the larger audience might have just been like, oh, this is an OK game with a cute character on the cover. And like it kind of never went further than that.
00:37:51
Speaker
It's also like a PS5 exclusive. Yeah, and that's the biggest. A lot of people with play base but the fives are like, Oh, a game. Thank you. So like, so I mean, whether that's the case or not, I don't really know. But I do think as I want to say it is a boon.
00:38:11
Speaker
I believe for a game to look good. like However, in whatever fashion that takes, like if it's sexiness, like that's how you make it look good, that's one way. If it's really cute, like Pokemon, that's another way. right If it's like really stylish, it has an amazing art style. that's not like just It needs to stand out. like That's the thing that really separates everything nowadays from other stuff. And as everybody on this planet knows, sex sells.
00:38:39
Speaker
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If that's going to be the the path you choose to make yourself stand out, just, you know, be responsible with it. Like I love it when a game goes, like they make a decision and they say, all right, I'm going to have like really cute models or characters or whatever, but it's for everybody. Like, um, I didn't really like, uh, what was that game? Uh, something arc, it was like the, the Korean and MMO.
00:39:07
Speaker
one those case yeah i've I I played it like for like 40 hours back on escapists that we never released the review. Do you remember that? ah Oh, Lost Ark. Lost Ark.
00:39:21
Speaker
I was so taken by that game's character creator or just options because of how gorgeous all the characters were, male and female. Everyone was just super model gorgeous that I wanted to write a whole thing about it. But at the end, when I started writing the thing, I went like, no, people are just going to think I'm horny for all the characters. They're not going to get the nuance of why I think this is interesting. So I trashed that as well.
00:39:50
Speaker
But like i think I think that matters. to like Folks won't admit it oftentimes, but like if you just like the look of a character, whether it's male or female or like a creature, like I do think that has an effect that will pull you towards it. like I'm not surprised that like sex can be used in this way in particular. like yeah yeah yeah I guess for me, I just know that it's a video game.
00:40:11
Speaker
so like it doesn't do anything. Like I'm much more interested in the world and story and, and gameplay than characters. Cause like my, if I'm, if there's a character creator game, I probably spend like 10 minutes on it at most. And then it just get into the game. Cause I just don't care. Do you make your characters look like you? Do you have like a thing? Like, Oh, I want to make my characters look like blank or do you just go kind of crazy?
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah, I typically just do bearded bearded dude. Like I just I just do whatever like I really to randomize it and just do whatever or I just do a very basic looking thing so that it doesn't like distract me, distract me from the actual game itself. Sure. Because I just I'm not like I'm just not a huge role player, but like with Stellar Blade like going back to how that was weaponized a bit like that was I mean, that was all about censorship and because they changed the designs of of a few character skins. And so, I mean, like that whole controversy was just a bunch of fucking nonsense, no matter which way you look at it. ah But, ah you know, I'm with Casey, like if you're going to if you're going to make your game have a sex appeal, like lean into it and just own it, you know, yeah. I think some games try to like straddle that line a little bit. I would i would say Bayonetta is one of those games that straddles that line.
00:41:29
Speaker
of like, obviously it's on Nintendo so they can only do so much, but, um, start that way. Yeah. Yeah. yeah being a two or three war top though yeah First, first game had a lot more than that. Then the second and third one did. I mean, they put like when it first got ported to Nintendo, they added a bunch of Nintendo themed costumes and like, they just had her in like a sexy link outfit, a sexy star Fox outfits are like Nintendo kind of let them do what they wanted. It felt like, yeah.
00:42:00
Speaker
i see lincoln see fox mclash actually like i didn't even see those outfits like because it house on here i gotta to say my phone also ah no it is It's interesting because I think characters looking good is a thing that is a subjective but be like a You know that that that runs an entire gamut like when we were talking about Concord like one of the things about Concord when it came out and and people didn't gravitate towards it towards its characters in the same way they did to overwatch is like its characters were just weren't memorable right it wasn't like yeah
00:42:36
Speaker
is silhouette and we're like, oh, that looks cool. And like, I feel like for me, like a silhouette, whether sexualized or non-sexualized is a thing that I remember from the character. Like, and that's going back to like, you could see the silhouette of a smash character or like the fucking silhouette of a who's that Pokemon. And you just think to that. And then when you go to Overwatch, you have that same, you have that same thing. And obviously some of the characters, those are the one character who's become like a big old like porno magnet in Overwatch.
00:43:05
Speaker
people do like a bunch of, there's one character the one i trace is the one that i always so like that which isn' a character it isn't like hyper sexualized, like in the game, but has like been kind of co-opted and like, uh, the community or some other community has, has co-opted it.
00:43:22
Speaker
And
Art Style and Character Design
00:43:23
Speaker
then the same thing, like when I talk about silhouettes, like I think of like the the ah the art direction of Magura-san on the Persona games is like so so incredible. And I think, especially Persona 3 on, into Catherine, and now in the Metaphor Refandazio, the characters, just as silhouettes, like the way they stand, the way they are shaped, and this is not even a sexual thing, it's just like, that is what stands out to me. And that is the thing where I'm like, ooh, I wanna... play as that character or play alongside that character throughout this game because they've created like geometry that I'm interested in, um which I think works really well. and Then obviously, you can lead into the sexuality, which Persona definitely does with with games like Catherine, either overtly or with on across Persona 5.
00:44:11
Speaker
If someone in chat said, uh, Sebastian, yeah, I like what, uh, Sebastian Kirok Mikuluk said, uh, there are many ways to make it appealing characters. Sexy is just the easy mode. And I, yeah, I think that is kind of the case or what we're hitting on is like, what, what's appealing is that the character has style or, you know, a look that is attractive, like in the broad sense.
00:44:34
Speaker
But like the easiest way to probably gather the largest group to that character is just sex appeal, like sex like generic titillation, right? Like cleavage, but growing outlines, I don't know. big three cuts and grus But so like, but it does that.
00:44:57
Speaker
does Does that, does that feel cheap now? Like, is is that, is that what the pushback is? Like the, like the folks who kind of can see the difference, like, Oh, the aesthetic is really, really good here, but this is just, this is cheap aesthetic. Like, this is just trying to get me like,
00:45:16
Speaker
Like it's, it's taken like an easy route to something that you know is valuable. Like, is that why there's like kind of a pushback to like maybe some of the more hardcore, like higher brow gamers who don't care as much about like. like I don't know anything about the stellar blade character. Like, is she a good character? Like, I know I've played the shit out of near. So I know like to be and and everyone like I know that they are amazing characters and that their sexuality is actually used in an interesting way that a can be used for translation, but also be is used to say something by Yoko Taro and the team. um Is that the case? And now so I honestly couldn't tell you, but I doubt it. Yeah. yeah I mean, I made it through most of stellar blade, but I just ended up putting it down because the environments are so boring. Yeah. Like I said, that's the game that was like desert personified. And it just sure like every, every, every level is another desert. I'm like, why? It's just so boring and bland. yeah Yeah. And yeah. Her character, like, I don't know, there's not much story there. And like, it kind of reminds me of, um,
00:46:20
Speaker
Like I really love the Final Fantasy remake games, but especially in the second game, they really kind of, I don't know. I feel like they got a little weird with Tifa and Aerith. Like a lot of scenes were like would start, you know, down around their crush and ass and then come up and like real slow. And the guys are just straight on.
00:46:38
Speaker
and but Yeah, Tifa is a super interesting character to look at from the late 90s to now because like in the late 90s characters were kind of simplified like the character designs were like very simplified but now like Tifa is not a sexualized character I say this as but each well like character by and large, aside from the beach interlude, is not sexualized a ton in Seven Remake and Rebirth. Yet the visual design is obviously super sexualized. ah And so there's that like, I don't know, the push and pull, or is there even a push and pull? Like, can you just look past?
00:47:18
Speaker
I feel like if someone consumes a lot of anime, it's pretty easy to look past what a character. Yeah, you sort of get married. You get get to do it. Yes. Numb is the right word. Because like the the thing you just mentioned, Nick, about like, yeah, that the focus of on like the bodies and the animals. Yes. All the time in anime. And like, yeah yeah, I will just gloss over the fact like i I'll I'll stop picking up on the fact that like, yeah, this shot started from the butt up. Yeah. Like just cause I'm there for like the story and everything else. But like it's something that I've accepted. And and maybe that's bad.
00:47:48
Speaker
But I don't know, like is is it also a style? And is there merit there? like does that Does that work for the people who are into that? Does that keep them invested long enough to get to like the good bits of the story? And if that's the case, does that should like should you apply that the other way around? like give Give the other side that sort of treatment. like' I'm always in favor of like if you're going to sexualize one half, then sexualize the other. like Make everything that needs to be sexy, sexy. If you're going to go that route, like just make it equal opportunity for me. Like for me, like it just, it felt totally off with what final fantasy remake was going for. It got you at the very serious, very sad story for a lot of it, even though there are like, you know, fun moments and all that. And like you go on the dates with people or Eric or whatever you want. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, when you, when you do that, that kind of camera work for like that, it feels like it it cheapens it to me.
00:48:42
Speaker
um
Romance in Video Games
00:48:43
Speaker
and just I'm really excited for the third part because there was a scene in the game where it is very clear that the ship is hovering in the air and Cloud and Tifa have an emotional moment on the ground and then they fuck and then all the other characters are just kind of watching.
00:49:02
Speaker
what I'm like, get you out of, let's see you get to tie your way out of this one. Let's see you untie this knot. Yeah, that's same. I'm really excited for this scene. Thank you so much, Eric. ah that That led me to the my bigger point when we were discussing the Uh, bringing up this topic is like, I just wish games like just in general did like romance better. Like, and I don't think, I don't yeah i can't think, I can't think of many games that have like really well-written romances. So I'm not a big bioware obviously, or a Witcher person. Do those games have good written, well-written romances? I would say, uh, the Witcher three does have
00:49:50
Speaker
pretty, yeah, pretty good romance written into it with the characters that like get you to actually care about them. Yeah. I don't know. Like in Mass Effect, which I've played a ton of, I don't know if I would say they have good romances. I do like the relationships that they let you build over time. But like in terms of like these two characters like like each other, these two characters love each other. I'm not so sure like those feel maybe a little more hollow.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah. like out real easy Yeah. They're just based on decisions you make, you know, so you know what you're doing the entire time. But even, even the way they, um, but um yeah, I know that they're based on like decisions you make, but like they, they try to justify them in like the cut scenes that follow, right? Like you'll get a scene with, uh, uh, Jack, the, the, the, you know, the psychic, um, punk rocker or whatever, and you'll get, it or you'll get a scene with like your assistant at the,
00:50:44
Speaker
at the helm or whatever. But like none of those, even if you stuck with just that one person in game, because you you can just, you can be a straight up ho and just talk to everybody all willy-dilly. But if you just stick with one and you're really trying to be an honest man, I don't think that even then it feels like that's like building to something that like matters between the two. It still feels kind of like the finer choice. and whereas Like the friendships and stuff seem way more meaningful.
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's why I said it's kind of hard to write. I think it's hard to write a good romance is based on player choice, where the witcher, the witcher has player choice and like who you decide to go with. But it's also like fully fleshed out storylines that you either choose to follow or don't wear mass effect is very binary.
00:51:23
Speaker
you know, do this choice or this dialogue option. And I just don't think they're well written. So like i like, I can't think. Yeah, I just can't think of like too many games on the top of my head that I would consider like have. Well, was that one about the two like the couple who was like run around a. ah uh, empty planet, uh, haven. Yeah. That one, that one was good actually. Yeah. Indie games. Unsurprisingly are able to do this with, with more nuance, uh, of like Florence and one night stand and, and unpacked that can handle like, those are less like overtly sexual and more like dealing with actual relationships, yeah interpersonal yeah connection. yeah
00:52:05
Speaker
And yeah, the thing with the Bioware games that, God, this might Yeah. have been Yahtzee or it might have been someone else. So if this was Yahtzee, well done Yahtzee, if it was someone else, well done that other person. But bringing up that, the mechanics of relationship in games become kindness coins, where it's, I did a good thing for you, so I got a kindness coin, and then with kindness coins, I can sleep with you, which is ultimately like a pretty bad way to, like it's a bad lesson to impart onto people.
00:52:35
Speaker
because no one's out of how to do it. Yeah, very transactional. um yeah But here's the thing. Those exist in in like the real world. Oh, yeah. Still not good. ah yeah and I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but like yeah the fact that it it can be represented in that way in a game doesn't necessarily make it like false. It just makes it a bad representation, right? Yeah.
00:53:03
Speaker
Like same thing with like say the the hot coffee minigame in ah San Andreas. Like to, to gamify sex in that way feels like kind of lifeless, but you can totally find people in real life who do that. They gamify sex, like they want high numbers. They treat it like, you know, a competition between their bros or whatever. Like that happens. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
00:53:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's... Has there ever been a good video game sex scene?
00:53:37
Speaker
I like some of the intimate moments between Ellie and Dina in The Last of Us Part II. Spoilers for The Last of Us. Yeah, I've not seen that, so I can't comment. Ellie bones down.
00:53:51
Speaker
I think that's a great sex scene in ah Wolfenstein two, the new Colossus oh yeah on a train between BJ and Anya. Yeah. And that's it. We reached the top what david a david cage game right now and needs to go to jail.
00:54:15
Speaker
so i knew I knew as soon as you said that I was thinking heavy rain. I like somebody's gonna say it Me I'll let the chat step on that land mine. Yeah on on the indie front. I love that. It's not ah It's not like intercourse but fire watch if anyone's ever played fire watch has ah the the one I don't want to spoil it. It's it's about a, ah yeah you you you build a relationship with a character who's in like a neighboring ah fire tower, who is so far away, like enough to kind of see their light on the horizon. And you never meet the character, but you speak to the character and the writing and the dialogue is so in the performances are so good in the game. And there's a one night, like the two characters get drunk and kind of start flirting with each other. And it's probably the best depiction of like flirting
00:55:06
Speaker
drunk, flirting, escalating into something else. I've maybe ever seen an art like it is just so spot on. Uh, and again, part of it's the writing part of it's the delivery part of it's when it comes to the story. But, um, yeah, that's, that's, that's good in the firewatch. Doki Doki literature club is a good, good relationships. I mean, that doesn't have to play out for anyone. Oh my God. don Yeah. I think just in general, like, yeah, I don't know. Like yeah the,
00:55:35
Speaker
sex appeal on games like either caters to the audience that just really, and for lack of a better word, goons over physics and jiggle physics and all that kind of stuff. And there's the audience that really likes their rpd RPG decisions, where they get to you know pick their waifu, pick their character in Baldur's Gate 3, and just like, that's the person I want to be in a relationship in this game. And then there's just people like me that just don't really, it's it's a video game, so I just don't, like unless they're very well written,
00:56:05
Speaker
romantic relationship. where I would consider Haven one of those games. Yes, Firewatch, too. I also think it's really good at that. um Like Baldur's Gate 3 has moments of that, but ah it still feels too gamified for me, I guess. I don't know. I guess Baldur's Gate 3 like straddles that line of like almost being really good where like I think the character that I bonded with most in the game was like Shadowheart.
00:56:33
Speaker
And like, it's, it's well written as it goes, but it also has that. I guess token. A metaphor that you brought up, Marty, where like, I know this action is going to lead to this next action. And like this, you know, if your role playing is my character ready for that, I guess I don't have a say in the matter anymore. Yeah. Because either that or I have to just not, I have to skip that dialogue option.
00:56:58
Speaker
Yeah. And it's actually, it's actually what's weirder in like Baldur's Gate or Dragon's Age or any of those games. Cause if you don't do that romantic option, then the character character is usually offended. Yeah. It's like you, it's like a black and white sort of thing. It can't be, I mean, if someone ever says like, I really like you in real life and you're like, I do not feel the same way, it's possible your relationship's not going to be the same. Well, maybe I just need to go like,
00:57:27
Speaker
Hell of a thing or something before I get to the story beat. There you go. so I'm really the guys who kill things. So, you know, yeah. Can you be yeah one of them? Like kill like 10 rats in the basement and then maybe you can talk. Also, the light, the lighting in this room because I don't have my ah like camera light makes looks like I'm like just beat red during this whole discussion.
00:57:49
Speaker
Yeah, sure. It's the lighting. that's I'm not embarrassed at all. It's not the doom glow. Yeah, that's a good one. Well, we can, you know, talking, yeah the the metaphor refantazio demo is out so you can play the first five to to seven hours of the game or so. And from that you can, anyone who's played that can kind of see that the game is, ah you know, would I wouldn't say the persona games are hyper sexualized, but like that's a part of the character design and part of the costumes and a part of like, oh, you're playing a high schooler who's hanging out with other high schoolers and sometimes hanging out with people that are older than high schoolers that makes everything a little wonky, but relationships like that and getting to a point where ah you can become intimate like is a thing in those games. ah From what we see in the first seven hours of Metaphor Refantazio, that's not a thing there.
00:58:40
Speaker
that is not that like you do build up relationships, but it is like, Oh, I'm building up a ally in battle. Like I'm building up a comrade and I'm not, I'm not building up someone that I can hope to like, you know, I'll hanky-panky with. So, um, yeah, whether that's something, and it's funny cause again, this is the core team of Catherine. which was the game that was all about the hanky, panky, uh, in, and in smart and interesting ways. Like that was the first, like one of the rare games I've ever played where it's like, Oh no, uh, we got pregnant. What do we do with this kid? Like, do we, do du do we need to have the talk? Like that's yeah games. I usually do that. Um, yeah, yeah so which is, which is interesting. Ms. Harmon in our chat, obviously, you know, brought up that we don't have a woman on this particular podcast to discuss this issue, but I do.
00:59:25
Speaker
one You're like woman in general feel about like I do like you do see on social media like ah people talk about like those kind of physics and stuff and like this just looks weird doesn't even look natural and I would say like without sounding too weird like the stellar blade stuff that they showed off today like the physics actually looks correct for body anatomy so a sorry ah do za I say that sounding weird. Thank you.
00:59:55
Speaker
When we when we first brought this up in like an earlier meeting, like I likened it to how Red Dead spent all that time modeling but like the the testicles on the horses that they like shrink when it ah gets cold. It's a good thing you can drag about, but 0.001% of people are going to notice that. The obsession with trying to get this exactly right seems like maybe misplaced, like maybe put that energy into something else. But I mean, go off if that's your passion, right? Like I really, I guess I can't fault them for like achieving the thing they achieved. And and there's a very particular subset who's into that. Like the people who are probably still playing Stellar Blade right now, that's, that is who that's for. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just still staring at Eric's B-roll. I don't know what's going on. It looks like a cataract surgery. pick
01:00:48
Speaker
Oh, sorry. I thought that was my eyes. It might be. You might want to get that check. Going over a couple of super chats
Impact of Games on Player Habits
01:00:54
Speaker
before we move on to the rest of the stuff we've been playing. Red Dwarf with a $5 demo. Thank you so much. Red Dwarf, what gets released first to Beyond Good and Evil 2 or Star Citizen in case he is not allowed to engage in this? Squadron 42 before either of those.
01:01:10
Speaker
That was neither of the two options. That's not the question. That was neither of the two options. You know what? I'm gonna say Star Citizen before Beyond Good and Evil 2. I'm gonna say Beyond Good and Evil 2. Just upset Jay. Alright, write it. Guys, mark their answers down and one of these men will win and one of these men will lose.
01:01:28
Speaker
unless neither of the game ever came to pick up on. Eric's got the real answer. No star says it will release before a silk song. Sorry guys. He wanted to take a pot shot at somebody. Wow. ah And then Denmark with a file or don't know. Thank you so much. Speaking of addiction. I got my girlfriend animal crossing. I've said goodbye to my switch already. ah if you last forever known that It will last forever. less No, it will last forever. It lasts forever.
01:01:56
Speaker
It doesn't last forever. I've got that on my system relatively quickly. She's already written her name on the inside of that switch like Andy Royce's name on Woody's boot. On Woody's clothing. It'll be yours away for a long time. It will not be yours for quite a while. You'll get it back eventually. You'll realize, your girlfriend will realize, you know what, there's more to life than turn ups and bells.
01:02:21
Speaker
She'll go, she'll go back to all the other stuff she did before video games. I have a copy of Animal Crossing. I've just never opened it. Probably good for my health. Yeah. That game just doesn't appeal to me whatsoever. You guys, you guys, that's cause you guys never lived through a pandemic. Yeah. I don't know where I was during this. Animal Crossing was really helpful. this se appendda i did I did try that, that mobile one, the pocket camp thing. And I was like, yeah, this is boring. i don't come the but My fiance got addicted to that. ah The hockey camp won. And then forgot about it. Like I had to remind her that that was a thing she liked a bunch. She was like, no, I didn't. general play Did you ever show her like Animal Crossing, a real Animal Crossing? No, cause I don't want to buy real Animal Crossing. It's always like 60, 60 dollar game still. You know, definitely definitely going down to the press. Near edge.
01:03:13
Speaker
close to the edge. very fi downno Thank you so much. I stand with Tetsuya Nomura on this one as a dangerous way to start. Attractive characters should be the default, conventionally attractive means that most people find that attractive find them attractive. I love it. Are those words he said? but oh I imagine that's what, I feel like that's Tetsuya Nomura's design philosophy. I didn't check it, but Sounds about right, given the characters. Oh, look at Lulu. Oh, Eric's a Lulu man over there. Watch, much Eric, we're learning a lot about you. This is so subjective, though. Attractive says, yeah. Agreed.
01:03:51
Speaker
Like, some people like whatever's going on in a work massage. Some people like whatever's going on in... Some people like massaging the orcs. Yeah, that's who you were. That is conventionally attractive right there. Him and his little boy Sora. Yo,
Character Design Philosophy
01:04:01
Speaker
he he does look a lot like Sora in that picture. They kind of favor each other. Shouts to a deep V. Shouts to a... Oh, God. That is a very deep V.
01:04:14
Speaker
Guess who's look at look at the deep view. Oh, he doesn't have to be anymore. Oh, you know, could you look at a couple of a couple of pals? Two goons. hang i me to was yesterday history presentation Two goons. Another $5 don't know. So much Denmark. I think there's a difference between a game character being sexy like solid snake and the kind of character that says I was designed one handed. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's people feel like solid snake is sexy.
01:04:42
Speaker
I know there's memes about like him having cake, but like, is he thought of as like sexy? Like, Oh, this is like a sexy dude. I wouldn't actually use the word sex. I think he's attractive. I would never say the word sexy because solid snake aside. Well, I guess that's big bosses is dead. Only his dad bones down. Solid snake never seems like someone, I guess like him and Merrill right off into like the Alaskan sunset on their, their snowblower or whatever, but like he's not bound to anyone in two. He's definitely not in four. God knows. In four, he's just like, I am dying. I crawled through a microwave. Things are bad in my life. I was not trying to bring my own book.
01:05:19
Speaker
But I mean, the one time you see like Snake really becoming intimate is naked Snake in Metal Gear Solid 3, and that moment of intimacy is used against him ultimately because Ava leaves him and steals his shit. so yeah so but it It reminds me a lot of Casino Royale. Oh, another thing Kojima predicted in Casino Royale where Bond finally like becomes legitimately emotionally intimate with Vesper Lind and then she uses him and ultimately dies. He's like, I'm never going to fall in love again. so They got that from Kojima.
01:05:49
Speaker
Nice. Look at that. Fucking James Bond watches one Kojima game. It is like, wait a minute. You stole everything from James Bond for this game. How is this working? Scatterbrain James. Scatterbrain James. Scatterbrain James just weren't up. It's fine. This Harmony with a $2 don't know. Thank you so much. This topic is, well, second needs, second wind needs more women. Agreed. Stay tuned. Agreed. Stay tuned. Me.
01:06:20
Speaker
Yeah. Two comments. Uh, James morning with a $5. No, no. Thank you so much. Seems like sexualization is only an issue. If it's an issue, if it's only an issue, if only an issue, if only straight men are appealed to like Casey said, equal opportunity, horniness. I definitely agree. Equal opportunity, horniness. If you're going to do it, do it for everybody.
01:06:44
Speaker
It just makes sense. I don't know if you have to do it for everybody. If just lean into what you want to do with, Who are your targets? But then that's where you get the imbalance, right? Because there are people who have the opportunity to do what they want to do, whereas there are a lot of others who don't. Or like if they do get the opportunity, they would not be better best served by leaning into it in the same way. Well, how do you balance Stellar Blade when the protagon you only get one protagonist? I don't think they mean a single... ah you don't have, like one person doesn't have to make something that appeals to every single person, but it's like the industry industry at as a whole needs to service yeah the wants and desires yeah of the spectrum. And that's when games get called woke. No, but it, well that's stupid. like i fuck know it is but
01:07:34
Speaker
But like even in Stellar Blade, right? We're like, yes, there's a singular focus here where there's a lot of titillation around the main character, yeah right? And like, yeah, they don't need to necessarily insert a super hot, like, K-pop star, ah like a male K-pop star to compensate, but they do have male characters in the game. Like, where's the scene where, like, he's just real vulnerable? Like, he's holding a towel over his junk and the girl walks in the room and they have, like, the little cutesy moment of, oh, is there something here? You know what? Like, just give but give them a little bit.
01:08:04
Speaker
Yeah. the watching Watching Blue Lock, which I love, every every every guy, every soccer player is attractive. Also, I think you're just super attractive when if you play soccer. I think it's just like you run so much that you outrun the ugly, you just become attractive. ah There is one woman in the show, and she shows up like once every five episodes, and every time she shows up, it's like a jump scare. I'm like, get out of here. but There's a show about boys. let we get back to the answer also the guy who talks to is just really mean to her though every time he's like he also wants her and he loves ego
01:08:40
Speaker
loves ego eagle who loves the ego you Oh, you know which game did uh sex appeal the very best 12 minutes Nick, get out of here. Turn turn off your PC, walk out of your room. Your room's slowly becoming darker. That's fine. Has he become an evil Nick?
Media Portrayal and Impact
01:09:00
Speaker
Yes, I'm getting more red as the light goes down. ah Jumbly, thank you so much for the big old don't know. Appreciate you, John. Y'all are a bunch of weirdos. I'm out. I'm off to watch freaky Demi Moore movie meant for wholesome individuals. Jumbly is going to see the substance.
01:09:19
Speaker
don have anymore which if you wanted if you If you want a movie that... No, Jonny knows what it is because we talked about it on Tuesday, on the the rewind. I highly recommend if anyone wants to see a movie that deals with the idea of of attractiveness and sexuality and body horror in a great way. Go see The Substance. Let me tell you, Dennis Quaid, Eat and Shrimp.
01:09:43
Speaker
That's all I'm gonna tell you. If you want to see a little bit of Dennis Quaid eating shrimp, real close up with a fish-eyed lens looking over ugly as hell, like Spike Williams shot it. You're not selling me on this movie. Yeah, it's great. Going back to the very start of her conversation about how like Gen Z is is not warning as much ah sexualization in their media. Sure wonder what they think about the boys.
01:10:07
Speaker
is the boy doesn't do like sexualization. They do ah like shock. What was it? What do you call that? Yeah. It's like you drink my drink, my breast milk, or like I'm going to blow up your dick or something. Yeah. I'm going to masturbate off of a building you or like, like it's, it's all like shock. It's like over exaggerated versions of yeah of sexual adjacent things. But like, do any characters in a show actually have like Like they'd never show Huey or Starlight like yeah having an intimate moment, do they? Or even like Butcher and his wife. They see him. Yeah. Butcher's wife is dead. I hope he's not doing it. She didn't she't start that way. you No, no one starts dead. They had flashbacks. Everyone becomes dead eventually. We don't start dead, Casey. We be we know hissies alone that neckro we believe we become we become dead eventually.
Scripted Relationships in Games
01:11:00
Speaker
um And then, uh, Sussie girl with a five-year-old don't know. Thank you so much. Kind of relationship in a game, uh, unless it is fully scripted from the beginning, ever be anything but transactional. Good, good, good point. Uh, Jason, Jason's pointing out to me, that's not how that sex scene went when the boys would, uh, starlight. Yes, I know.
01:11:25
Speaker
I have watched. So that you didn't understand though, did you? i It was fucked up. Uh, Yeah. it Can, can they only be transactional? That's a good point. Like, is that what, what interaction is? Um, in games. Yeah. That was the question that was asked. yeah um I'm trying to phrase it. I mean, I, it's hard to say because like, well, I guess we would just need to see the game that doesn't do that. But like, I think Haven's that game. I don't think Haven does it transactionally, but that's what they're saying. Like,
01:11:59
Speaker
They're saying that's the exception because like it's from beginning to end like written to not be transactional, right? Like as opposed to like options, but like, I don't, I don't know why I guess those have to be two separate things. Like.
01:12:14
Speaker
Like they're both depicting relationships. Like a relationship in a game that is written from top to bottom is a depiction of a good relationship. So like games get a point for that in my mind. Yeah. Like all games get a point for being able to depict, like, cause the possibility exists that you can depict a good relationship in games. Just more games need to do it that way, I guess. Yeah. I guess the difference is like what you do can impact it versus like I suppose two where That's the relationship they wrote. like you can't yeah you You can't make or break your relationship with Dina, depending on actions.
Non-Transactional Relationships
01:12:47
Speaker
One way is a story. It's just just written like a story. And the other is an actual game mechanic. Sure. Yeah, I don't think you can make a non-transactional game mechanic or something like that when the player has input and what they want to do.
01:13:00
Speaker
Well, how does how does this sound, right? Let's say the entire game is about a single relationship. And i' I've not played Haven, so stop me if this is exactly what Haven is doing. But um at the end of this game, you may...
01:13:15
Speaker
you know, stay with this person you're in a relationship with, or you guys may drift apart. And whether that happens or not is based on several decisions and choices that you make over the course of the game. Like, your partner's doing stuff it has stuff to do, you're doing stuff it has to do. Like, you're balancing things, they're balancing things. The decisions you make in order to maintain that relationship versus get whatever else you need to get done will affect that ending goal. With that, even though that it's playing with the same mechanics of like, you have to make choices and like, you can do something wrong or you can do something right.
01:13:44
Speaker
But, you know, it's just the one character and like, they're like, does that feel more. Whatnot, or does that still count as transactional because it wasn't just a story that was kind of out of your hands? I don't know. That's a good. That's a good point. I don't think I'd consider that transactional because in mass effect or whatever, like. Those are like pre predetermined choices that you have to make at specific points. I. That actually.
01:14:13
Speaker
but Interesting topic for Dev has to explore of like, how would you, how would you build a relationship that just, yeah, it'd be great for them to have like someone who's making a game like that on. It's just completely impacted by your mechanical actions in the game rather than choices. yeah So like if you are playing Haven and you, there's gotta to be like the Sims kind of does that, I guess. Like if you don't give enough attention to your relationship or whatever, they like the meter goes down.
01:14:41
Speaker
And so that they might end up getting bored and leaving. I mean, that's, that was fable, right? When you would just marry any NPC, you have to like give them gifts and not buy the house or whatever. you know if apple's sending them Send them money. yeah to ah Interesting, interesting set of mechanics. I don't feel like any game is like really explored fully yet.
01:15:00
Speaker
Get on it, Yahtzee. You heard it first. I think a lot ah lot of the visual novels and and stuff like that have done it.
01:15:10
Speaker
kind Horribly handles any type of romance. I would say one of the best depictions of a romance, I guess is the bromance between Dom and Marcus in Gears of War. Like that's a really well written,
01:15:28
Speaker
That's a good relationship story. Yeah, it's not romantic, but yeah. Yeah, I love that dynamic. I heard the need to keep warm during a cold razor hail night. Al Shashire, thank you so much for a don't know. Eric, if you may, I'll use this money to get Skull Girl squiggly butt snap back in the corner space. Shout out to Alex Ahad, big art influence.
01:15:54
Speaker
ah sister sir What have you done? When he said squiggly butt, that's not what I imagined. But it is. But it's squiggly's butt. So now I get it. Thank you. ah Beautiful. That's great. One time to be alive. I hate it all. ah Miss Harmony with a $3 don't know. You are all hitting relevant points. Women, I'm assuming you say would help, but you just said women would hell.
01:16:18
Speaker
um don't think is well you have your own point it helpful but it and then not did we I'm sorry just to jump in right there like there are women in the chat so definitely throw your input yes if you have any because yeah we don't have one sitting on on the panel with us so please we and Please for the love of God, no, we do not try to even pretend that we speak for women. Yes, absolutely. i really signify self spokenke that Completely from our perspective in this podcast. I i could always yield myself and your edge with a $5 don't know. Thank you so much near edge. I think we have more than parody with hot characters in video games. Male characters are almost always designed to be hot. That's just normal.
01:17:05
Speaker
I want to push back on that because this is a thing that comes up often when folks, uh, when a lot of folks try to defend the the the imbalance in terms of like the sexual relation. Yes. You'll look at like a guy who's kind of built like
01:17:21
Speaker
Super muskets. But that is still designed for men. Like that's a role model that men idolize and want to be like and not necessarily the sort of thing that many women just find conventionally attractive or like will be attracted to. Like their their level of attraction um from what I'm what I have heard about this particular situation. Because again, I'm not trying to speak for women.
01:17:42
Speaker
ah like It comes from more, like they need more context rather than just the image of the character, right? Like they need to know if that character is a good person or if they have certain qualities or whatnot to like push them into that sort of attractive state. Though it's not like for some, absolutely, but like the greater majority, it just doesn't work the same where it's like, boom, that character is instantly
Gaming Culture and Male Gaze
01:18:06
Speaker
hot. And like that, that does it for me.
01:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, completely agree. Yeah, I'm snake of the garden followed it up with games are no different than general society. Still a very male dominated culture with male gaze. Yeah. And again, that's not like saying that and I completely agree with that. And that's, I know snake isn't like bemoaning those representations, but at the same time, it's like, well, it's doesn't feel authentic to say, Oh, there's a balance because there's not a balance.
01:18:30
Speaker
Yeah, and then First and foremost, we just need to Recognize that before we do anything else like let's not pretend that it's the same thing on both sides There's an imbalance and then we move from there Let's just say the only attractive thing is a bear with a backpack with a bird in it and it's called banjo and why aren't we making more games with banjo because we all think banjo was a attract You think banjo it's walking that bird I thought about it.
Innovations in Zelda Series
01:18:58
Speaker
I'm not going to lie to you. I've thought about it. This is a few occasions. Uh, and I don't know the logistics, but I feel like there's something there push out air and pulling up shirtless. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Uh, Shulk and Sephiroth have shirtless options. Um, and zero suit. Samus has like a, like zero suit. Like she has like a mid rift exposed in her options. So like that's two versus the one. Yeah.
01:19:26
Speaker
So Mario was almost thinking in Mario Odyssey. Finally, we got to see Mario's nips in Mario Odyssey. You've been waiting. Thank you Miyamoto-san. ah ah what you've been playing but which been mean I've only been playing one thing. I'm just going to start off with my one thing and it's going to be the Legend of Zelda Echoes of Wisdom, which I think is a delightful video game. I finally got to the back half of it, assuming what I think is the back half because I'm over half the hearts. But I think it it does ah a wonderful job of blending the the aesthetics and fun and exploration of a top down to the Zelda a la Link's Awakening or a Link Between Worlds ah with ah sort of the the sense of choice and freedom and experimentation and puzzle solving that you get from the modern open era Zeldas, whether it's Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom.
01:20:15
Speaker
um And i'm i'm just I'm having a really good time going through not only just the the dungeons, which are a delight to have back like actual dungeons, but just wandering around the world and solving little puzzles and side quests and being like, oh, there's like ah there's a row of trees separating these two areas. And most of the games are like, I have to find a way around the trees. But in this, you're like, if I stack a bunch of fucking beds, I can climb over these trees. And you can. And this game is so funny to me because I solve 99% of my problems by stacking beds or by throwing a bunch of stakes.
01:20:45
Speaker
Like I keep getting stronger and stronger abilities because this whole game is about you don't have attacks. All you could do is like summon things. You're like a Pokemon trainer and the weaker things only cost one bit, whereas a strong thing might cost four bits. And so if you have a four bit meter, you can summon one strong thing or four weak things. And every situation I'm just like, how am I going to solve this? I'm like, gotcha. I just throw a bunch of snakes. on the Those next attack things for me. And it's so fun. like think It is so fun that my Zelda is just like a fucking hellion. Like I like that is very funny, but i I worried like does that not cheapen like the idea that like you kind of need to use all of this stuff to like figure out the world and interact with the world.
01:21:29
Speaker
You should, I think there is, and case the game wants me to use things more, but I'm just ah literally, I'm just like, no, I'm good. I need the worst bed and I need a bunch of snakes and I will get there. I will beat this game using a series of terrible beds and a ton of snakes. I really liked that. Like i I didn't know. I mean, I knew I haven't really paid much attention to this, this game in particular, but that was like the most annoying part for me for links awakening, obviously based on a very old game. Uh, but how,
01:21:58
Speaker
Rigid. It is. And so this style, that style of game, but without the rigidity, bridgeger yeah yeah I don't know how to say it. Very, very open-ended, very much to the point where it's like, Oh, uh, your goal is to beat these three dungeons, do them in whatever order you want. Here they are. It's very cool. Um, I may actually try this one though. Yeah. I'm ah a very good time with it. Unopened for a year.
01:22:23
Speaker
There you go. So you'll get to it after you get to Animal Crossing. Not to spoil anything, but this being Zelda's like very first official leading role, like does she really like get to shine or or do they enter do they interject Link ah here and there?
01:22:39
Speaker
uh, here and there, but like very here and there, like, well, I don't know what that means, but like, like sporadically, like he shows up at the beginning, like you play as a, we, we streamed the opening two hours. You play as him in the opening of the game. And then he, actual link has only shown up once since then for me, extremely briefly. So this is, he shows up as much as Zelda does in a traditional Zelda game, which is not very often. Yeah, so this is very much you feel like you're playing Zelda. um You talk to people when they realize it's you, like they talk a little bit different to you, and it's it's I'm liking it i'm like quite a bit. Okay. Yeah. And that's the main thing, aside from stuff I can't talk about that I've been playing. What about you guys? I've been playing Zelda Zone Zero clearly, but I'm not gonna talk about that.
01:23:35
Speaker
I did get to finally jump into parking garage ah rally circuit, which like two weeks ago, like it was one of the favorite things that came out of steam. Uh, next Fest, uh, when we did our last kind of compilation video, uh, put, put two hours into it, uh, for hot Monday energy. And like, I was locked in, like it's such a tightly tuned arcade racer and it's all time trials. Um, so I was basically just, I was racing the course ghosts over and over again. Um, and like,
01:24:06
Speaker
time time trials require ghosts in order to like really shine. Um, and even though I didn't jump into multiplayer half, which does record like multiplayer goes from across the world, whatever. So you can like race, like, I believe like 50 to a hundred ghosts at once, which is like kind of chaotic. Um, yeah the course ghosts themselves do a really, really good job, especially early on of just tutorializing how you play the game. Like your main things are essentially power sliding around corners. And that is that is how you get boost to go anywhere. Like if you're just hitting the ah accelerator, you actually go criminally slow. So like they they they steer you away from driving like that.
01:24:49
Speaker
Um, but there's this really fun nuance to the fact that like, yeah, all you can do is drift and then boost out of the drift. But half the time you need to be able to break. Cause like, if you go too fast around a corner or a ramp or whatever, like you can just launch yourself straight out of the goddamn parking garage, like out into the it's like the snow fields or the abyss or whatever. So like it's this, it's this is really fun. Uh,
01:25:13
Speaker
There's a really fun sequence of like learning the course, learning the mechanics of and how to apply them to that course, and then basically execution, which is the same sort of like, it's the same energy that like i i I get like' really hooked on like souls like games, whatever, right? Or like a really good boss fight, where it's like, I can see the code now. I just need to get to the other side. yeah like it It really just fuels that energy of just start over, start over, start over, start over.
01:25:43
Speaker
So like um i'm I'm probably gonna finish everything I can in it ah when I get a free chance. Like I played like half, I think there's eight courses and they're like three vehicles that you can do those courses with and the vehicles do feel different. And I was able to do like maybe all of the light stuff and then like the, with the heavy car, I did like half, I think. nice Maybe maybe ah the first third. God, I love these aesthetics. I love this aesthetic so much.
01:26:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's it it it sounds great. It's got fun ska music with dumb-ass, goofy-ass lyrics in it. Yeah, see I tuned into some of the some of the stream of my dates of it. it's It's a really fun title. I really, really like it. like's It's a real feel good throwback kind of game. Yeah. Yeah. This is the exact kind of arcade race. I used to really be into that. Like once they've got a little little too like I've never been able to do even like the Forza Horizon just felt like too big and into.
Nostalgia and Game Evolution
01:26:31
Speaker
Yeah. Like too much. And obviously for a little bit too much arcade out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas this absolutely seems like a thing up my alley. So I really can't believe like after all this time we haven't got like a good new like a pursuit type game.
01:26:46
Speaker
I mean, we did get, um, Oh, no, no, no. Uh, was like a year and a half ago or something. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't like that game was good. That game was good. No, no, it was fine. It wasn't like the torch and been like, Oh, we'll do this burnout the same way that no ND has been like, well, we'll just,
01:27:10
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yeah. yeah In the same way that like the, um, bomber cyber funk just did jet set radio. But the, the fun part of how pursuit was the PVP and we haven't had like a good PVP drop the ball on PVP for unbound for sure. Yeah. Like they had all the stuff in there, but took out like the, the police chasing in the, uh, multiplayer world. And that's just sucks. Like who the hell wants to do that? Yeah, man. I play, I put hundreds of hours in the harbor suit too. And that came out.
01:27:37
Speaker
Yeah. The original hyper suit and then the new one that they just remastered for some reason. You bring them back. You just did somebody just die. I don't know what that was.
01:27:51
Speaker
ah Eric, before we go to me, unless you've been watching anything, you see Eric wanted to play a clip from your stream on Monday. What? Is he asking me? No, I think he just played it. we ask the obvious fuck you fuck you yeah what a beat you by Well, there was no warning for that for audio listeners i ah for a second is we forgotten that have but for a second. I thought you were mad at Eric for playing the clip. And I was like, what's happening? That might be the biggest meltdown on any screen we've ever done. How much did you lose by?
01:28:32
Speaker
I'm so sorry. like that was that was what ah That was one of the toughest, like I probably played that particular course the most times because the ghost was doing this inexplicable thing where on the first lap, I'm kicking his ass. On the second lap, it just gains a shit ton of speed. and I was finally ahead of it for the entire race until at the very last second, he just zoomed past me.
01:28:52
Speaker
That's incredible. Eric, please drop the link to the clip into chat. that was like there was like a fiveful level rage quit i'm sorry I was locked in. I was in the zone in the middle of a live stream. Like I didn't know anyone else was around me. something so has got themoitized for that one That is funny as hell. Uh, you've been, you've been watching play anything else?
Toby Fox's Impact on Gaming
01:29:16
Speaker
ah Yeah, someone in chat just mentioned, um yeah, I did finish Undertale. George Lucas asked for me to to review it. Yeah. um Yeah. Finish that with the fiance ah last week, last Friday. Undertale is a great experience. um it's I ah don't understand, I guess, the obsession with it. Like folks made Undertale their whole personality back in the day.
01:29:41
Speaker
But like i I really like the humor in the game. I really like the story that's at the core of it. Like it's really kind of this sad morose tale of like, you know, ah injustice or whatever. um And I like how they the whole premise kind of just plays with a lot of your notions and comfortabilities of just games in general. like They'll put you in front of enemies where you could kill this enemy. Like they look dangerous. Like they definitely interrupted your pathway to whatever you were going to. But you honestly need to find a way to interact with that enemy and figure out how to how to resolve the situation peacefully. Like you can compliment them in certain cases. And it's like if they're responses to that, then you can just leave the fight afterwards with no harm done.
01:30:25
Speaker
And like it's fun figuring that stuff out over and over again for all the different enemies. um The dialogue is good. It's it's it's a really unique experience. like I've not played anything like it, honestly. um But i I don't know if I want to continue playing like to play more like it. like I feel like it's sort of a unique thing that if you keep trying to do this exact thing, it'll it'll wear off or it won't work as well.
01:30:51
Speaker
Um, but like, yeah, Toby Fox hasn't done anything since this, has he? Oh, which is right. Yeah. it' you the weotic And I think two episodes are out and three and four on their way. And five is ultimately. what america and there that been like an I think so. Yeah. But I think it's also the like, Oh, do you, i want do I want to play this all now or do I want to just wait until it's done? but jim Right. Kind of the the, especially, you know, episodic TV is one thing when you know it's coming next week. Episodic games, uh, Delta rune will probably come out over the course of five to maybe 10 years. Like that's it Kentucky root zero is the only episodic game I've ever gotten super into. And that took about 10 years to come out, um, from episode one to episode five. Uh, like, so it's almost you're better off, uh,
01:31:36
Speaker
playing them when they're done. Yeah, Undertale's one of those giant blind spots for me that I've been i've been meeting to store up at some point soon. It's really funny. Yeah. like Like Delta Room, this looks like, is this just a straight up sequel? I think it's like used, I don't know if it's in the same world, uses a lot of the same art characters and It looks like it's using similar mechanics and stuff too. Yeah. like change what If it's not broken. i don't think now That old chestnut. Why change if it's not broken?
01:32:06
Speaker
But if someone else was trying to do this, I don't think I'd be as interested as if Toby Fox is just continuing what he's doing. Like I would go back to that. Yeah. Yeah. Which like a million people have tried to do a similar thing, but it feels like he's like the guy where it's like almost like what, uh, um, what's his name? Why would I think his name is Rumblefish? What's the guy who made, uh, uh, star, uh, Stardew Valley? Uh, shit. Eric.
01:32:34
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, his name is Eric something, right? Yeah. It's out of my brain. It is falling out of my brain. Eric's Barone yeah but concerned ape. Concerned ape. Yup. What? I think it was Rumblefish. I mean, Chucklefish is a Dev. Chucklefish is a publisher, I think. Yeah. Rumblefish is of for a cultural film.
01:32:55
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, which broke? Yeah, that might not be a real game. I don't know if that's real. Uh, cool. Nick, you've been playing to watch anything. Uh, yes. I, uh, because I got my monitor, uh, appeared in Nebraska. I can ah enjoy my games at the correct frame right again. Of course. Um, of course. I did, uh, start a Natria, the last song, which is that souls like that setting, uh, like based off like Italy folklore.
01:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, you've been digging that up. Yeah. um Yeah, I quite like it. It's very it's not very hard at all, really. um And I would say like the bosses are interesting, but their patterns are very simple, which is kind of nice. I guess what the name was. It's Anachria, the last song.
01:33:44
Speaker
um
01:33:47
Speaker
It definitely has like that good. Souls like map design where everything kind of loops back into itself, even though the areas like it's not one interconnected world, you gravel load to other areas in the world. But each area is like a nice size where.
01:34:04
Speaker
You know, you'll it almost has like um um a hub, of like a main area and then like dungeons that loop back within itself where like Liza P I think didn't do that looping as well, but it had like the really good combat. um So basically when I was talking about Anatria on social media the other day, I kind of put it like in the middle.
01:34:22
Speaker
it's not like it's not as good as ah liza p but it's not as bad as steel rising even though i really like steel rising it still rises kind of more mediocre than yeah but like yeah it's fine mediocre then this is good and then liza p is great and then Lord of the Fallen and Souls, you know, Dark Souls and all that are excellent, I guess. low Lord of the Fallen is behind the lives of P. Let's be serious here. Nope. Nope. You're wrong. That's why you find to be wrong. It's you and Jess versus Nick and Jack. And me and Jack are right. That's why i I like I like my team better. Yeah, they're they're working on quite a few patches for Anatria. So it's the the main issue I have with it right now is like when I'm playing it and no matter what settings I change, it like has like this
01:35:07
Speaker
like flicker effect sometimes or like it's not like it's not screen tearing but like the game will literally just something will flick i guess is the best way i can describe it so i would i would maybe wait uh to buy this one for a couple more palletches or yeah patches to i try to put patches and balancing in one word as palletches Any date for any date dinner. I'm hungry. ah So yeah, that kicks you in the ass when you're looking over a cliff and also get to fly back up. But yeah, I would i would definitely wait a couple a couple of months on this one and let the the patches fix more things in it. But it's it's pretty solid. ah The other game I've been playing is Kill Night. Would you also stream today? That one's I tried that during the next fest, I think. That's right.
Indie Game Highlights
01:35:53
Speaker
It's not. Yeah. So a lot of people kind of look at it and think it's another like vampire survivors like it's very much not. It's just a bullet hell arcade game. i Really, really crunchy, solid combat. And like in the game, like it's quite difficult very quickly. Like I'm on it took me quite a few tries to beat the first map. And once I beat the first map, the second map is like.
01:36:16
Speaker
Jesus, it just gets really tough. And there's five maps in total now, I think oh this isn't a rogue like it's not a roguelike at all. Right. Like it's like you need that first map, but then you you start on the second one, I'm assuming. Yeah, it's a root it's it's got elements of that. I guess I don't know. I don't even know. Like a roguelite is such a.
01:36:38
Speaker
Because well what I mean is like you you earn points and you upgrade by completing challenges within the game. So no, it's not a red light at all because there's no like currency system for that. But you do. You have like a base set of abilities that are just there with you. Yeah. Yeah. You don't like unlock cars. You don't unlock like abilities as you yeah and play the level. You don't unlock anything. You go on the set load out.
01:36:59
Speaker
um Jason Tudor just seemed like Yahtzee hated it. Yes, it's a game that requires very fast reflexes, which Yahtzee doesn't have anymore. It's rolled, it's hard. And also, was he was he playing this like during a livestream? Yeah, he was playing it during a livestream. Yeah, that's going to screw him over too. yeah If you don't do the tutorial for that game, you will miss out on combat mechanics. So like if you do pick this up, make sure you do to do the tutorial because it's actually pretty mechanically deep.
01:37:23
Speaker
yeah It reminded me a lot of the the new Doom, where it's like, do this in this situation in order to fuel this, which will let you do the next thing in this other situation, which I like a lot. Like is like this it's sort of ouroboros of mechanics in terms of like gameplay ah situations. Yeah, just it just always keeps your brain firing and like juggling a million things at once.
01:37:47
Speaker
Yeah, I would say the game's weakest point is as somebody just pointed out the chat, like kind of like the environment design. It's it's very bland, but that's also the game's aesthetic. It's just very muted, I guess is ah the way I would put it.
01:38:03
Speaker
Yeah, it looks like it's predominantly like just red and black. Yeah. Like red, black, and shadow. but Yeah, I really, really enjoy the combat of those games. if you like If you like vampire survivors or games like that, I think you will actually probably like this too. You know, it's it's quite mechanically different and doesn't have the randomization that those games have.
01:38:24
Speaker
Oh, he lied about doing that. Did he go back to do the tutorial? Because I came in and said, did you do the tutorial, Yahtzee? And he yelled at me. Because anyone who asks that gets yelled at on the street. what if any If I'm streaming and someone says, did you do the tutorial? I'm going to yell at him. I just was watching him miss the active reload. I'm like, you probably did this tutorial because you didn't know there's an active reload.
01:38:44
Speaker
or you just just trying to get it sorry yeah so a And then the ah final game that like I gave a go to ah is Lauren slur, which I know you guys. yeah Jesse played that. Yeah, not too long ago. ah Like just most recent week. yeah heat Did he end up liking it or not?
01:39:06
Speaker
I actually ended up, I think, liking it more than he did, and even though he was one playing. So like, yeah, Jesse, I don't think was into it as much. He thought it was interesting. Yeah. But I kind of like what it what it seems like it's going for. I actually like it. Yeah, I should. I should. I should dig it. Yeah. Yeah. I I got through almost to the end of the first level and then I got stuck somewhere. And then it made me well, it said start over.
01:39:32
Speaker
And not thinking straight, it put me back into the start of the the very start of the level where you go down like the but tube. And I was like, Oh no, I'm not happy about this. It started too much over. Yeah, it's incredible.
01:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good ah sort of creative ah ah ah first person running parkour climbing, falling game, like all the different actions. Again, talking about ah parking garage rally circuit, like it has that crunchy aesthetic that I just really fucking love. And there's something about it that that immediately kind of puts me in a time and place. Dread delusion earlier this year headto head is had a similar thing, which I really liked. And yeah, Neat Game ah doesn't overstay its welcome. ah Excited to watch video essays of the people who are smarter than me. Talk about it. Yeah. Or like a speed runners, like just completely break it to hell. yeah Yeah. Like I really want to see that sort of stuff.
01:40:34
Speaker
It's a yes. I guess and people don't know what this game is. It's a small indie game made by one guy completely. I've been watching it be developed for years now. And it's like just the aesthetic alone is what caught my eye when I saw it on Twitter for the first time. But ah essentially it's a platformer and like a free climbing platformer as I would describe it as. And but the the big flip is that you're kind of going down for a lot of it.
01:41:01
Speaker
And so it's a really just atmosphere, weird experience that like, I don't know, just. Something like it's just really unique in a, you know, it's wave of very un-unique indie games lately with every game being a survivors like or something like that. Yeah. No, it's cool. It's cool. It's not too long. Uh, and it's a, it's a rad ass atmosphere, but with headphones. So I dug it. Yeah. orangeour is it Does the atmosphere hold up after the first level? it myping from Yeah, so it's also not a very long, and like I finished the game in like two settings. So it's, uh, yeah, theyre slightly beefy, but
01:41:37
Speaker
Um, definitely there was like read and look up a full i was gonna say sitting for you. Marty's like six say to eight hours. I whoa, whoa, whoa, who whoa yeah it's true we know just got called out it was a i mean just because i sit down at eleven a m on a sunday and i'm like i will watch three footballs and then a movie afterwards doesn't mean to sittings that long that'll play a game on steam deck I finished Lost in One City. I finished Lost in One City and it's like 140 episodes. You find a way. Only 140 hours. You probably already put that metaphor. 40 minute episodes. I haven't put 140 hours in the metaphor. What are we doing? just christ You will be.
01:42:25
Speaker
It's all over. Fine. We're done. We're done. We're done. Everything was going cool right until the, to the 97th minute and you guys pissed me off. Uh, no, that's about does it for us so at the end of this, uh, wonderful episode of, uh, Firelink. Uh, Nick, what, what should folks check out? Where can, where can folks find you? Uh, you can find me on blue sky now. and I'm on both Twitter and blue sky. Uh, it's same username, Nick Jekyll.
01:42:52
Speaker
ah No, I'm not getting into it. I'm just tweeting about cool games and cool stuff. I'm working on my next big unpack script, which is all about Ubisoft's problems catching up with it and so as a company. and So I will have that out next week, and I'm pretty happy with the script on that one. Casey's not mentioning it at all. and Please don't. Yeah, I have nothing to do with it. Yeah, he hasn't given me free seed stuff yet.
01:43:21
Speaker
or whatever game you work on now. And now I no longer can. Oh, shit. Well, for a second I thought you said seed stuff. Like I was like, plants? You have to give them the heirloom tomatoes. Yeah, we got a real gardening club going on in the back. Yes. I'm waiting for my pimento seeds, you see. Love a pimento. I'm waiting for them. I'm a big fan of pimentos. Delicious. But yeah, other than that, I probably won't be on any streams until I'm back from Nebraska. So we'll see you there.
01:43:53
Speaker
Hell yeah. Casey? ah Yeah, same. You can find me at SigmaGears9 on all the social medias. That does include Blue Sky, though I have not sent a single thing on Blue Sky yet. I mean, I check it every now and then, so like I'm seeing stuff, but like I don't have the energy. um Outside of that, um yeah, this week, this is my last stream thing. I'm taking a flight this weekend, so ah no Metroid. We won't be starting Metroid until next week, um and no wedding stream, because my fiance is also traveling with me.
01:44:23
Speaker
um Outside of that, um check out ah my latest review, Elsie, that just came out. And also Elise just released the review for Key Locker, which I helped edit. So check that out as well. And ah Adventures and I remastered on Saturday.
01:44:40
Speaker
And just, I don't know, be good people to the other people. That's all I have. That's all we ask. Yeah. And then we'll have, in terms of other stuff going up, tomorrow at noon central, Jack will be hosting a sponsor stream for his Schismo Sideshow, a game he's been looking forward to. So we'll be doing that. Might do another stream sometime tomorrow or Friday. We don't know. We'll see. We got a new design delve.
01:45:08
Speaker
though on Friday from Jay, so check that out. Yes, Astrobot, it'll be good stuff. A lot ah lot of good bite size, some fun fun videos in the works for y'all, so get excited for about that. And then I'll ah yeah i'll be don't probably doing streams on my personal channel this weekend as well, probably some Friday at middle, just like ah and I'll steal a movie and watch it or something on Friday or something. It's fucking extreme. Yeah, do I do that sometimes, then I just delete stream.
01:45:37
Speaker
I mean, I totally did that for karaoke, so. Who's going to arrest who's going to address me? The director of Silent Hill, the movie to start. No, he's in jail. So no, absolutely not.
01:45:49
Speaker
that's exactly i you said area number is no free card scott stone He was allowed to leave the wall. His watch had ended. Yeah, all the normal stuff next week, so tune in for that. Make sure you check out our PAX videos too that we did. Yes, check out our PAX videos. You guys made some good ass PAX videos.
01:46:10
Speaker
They were a lot of fun. Check those out. Definitely. Definitely videos for like our core audience only, but you know, the viewership wise, they're doing okay. starting next week, we should have some, uh, we have some, some special, uh, Halloween spooky season, uh, centric, uh, streams in the works. Uh, but there's going to be definitely some, some spooky and gems. I know Jamaite is, uh, putting down some money to play and then putting down some money. He's just literally we're scheduling him. He's never played Resident Evil seven. So he wants to play through Resident Evil seven. Uh, Jesse's got a bunch of hidden gem spookies he wants to play. So all sorts of fun stuff. We'll have a big schedule for that as well.
01:46:46
Speaker
Uh, so for, uh, Casey and Nick and Eric, this was, uh, the final podcast episode number 39. Thank you all so much ah for tuning in. Jewel. Wow. Sorry. Two Euro donor. Before we end money, he, he, he, or they go back and read those ones we skipped over earlier too. Oh, what did we do? I don't think I did. I thought I was saving all of them.
01:47:12
Speaker
I thought we we we said we were going to skip two and come back to them further. Oh, yeah, we read that one from Roger Orff and then Denmark's. OK, we're good. OK, so you read your despite the fact that as the host, I actually hosted the show correctly and and handled everything when I was supposed to. And then during the outro, you interrupted. Pretty much. OK, I just want to make sure that's what that's what it was going to punch me for Casey, Eric Marty and the three of us alone.
01:47:40
Speaker
ups it over there yeah Thank you all so much for tuning in, for hanging out. You all are wonderful everyone on YouTube, everyone on your podcast service of choice. ah Your support means the world to us. Have a wonderful rest of your evening and we'll see y'all later. Good night everybody. and then i'll See you later.