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Is Halo's Massive Shakeup Enough to Regain Its Former Glory? | Firelink Podcast
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This week on Firelink, Marty, Nick, and KC chat about the massive shakeup surrounding Halo, and what that means for the future of the tentpole franchise.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Support
00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast is brought to you by us. Since Second Wind operates 100% independently, we rely on your support to help us continue delivering the great content you love. Consider checking out our Patreon if you want to access ad-free versions of every podcast, plus your name featured in our video credits, as well as other exclusive perks. So if you like what you see, hear, or smell, maybe, visit our Patreon page and become part of the community today. Now back to the show.
Nintendo News and Discussions
00:00:33
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Firelink Podcast of episode number 40. Machi Machi, 40th episode for Wednesday, October 9th, 2024. I'm Marty Saliva, as always, joined by Casey Wosun, Nick Calandra, and of course, producer Eric. And if we got a show for y'all. We're going to talk about the big Nintendo announcement. Everyone's been waiting. Everyone's like, Nintendo, what do you have to show? They announced two things.
00:01:00
Speaker
And I'm going to tell you, I only put one of them in the dock. We got a secret one on the side that you'll all be excited about. A bunch of games have come out, including ah Metaphor Refentazio, Silent Hill, ah the Zelda. Well, just a lot of stuff for us to talk about what we've been playing.
Halo Studios Rebranding
00:01:16
Speaker
And of course, our main topic is going to be ah the big Halo news from over the weekend that 343 Industries has rebranded, renamed themselves,
00:01:25
Speaker
moved Halo onto a different engine and what does that mean for the future of a franchise that I don't want to say one of us holds very dear because I really i like Halo at a certain point in my life like meant a lot to me.
00:01:39
Speaker
Same. That was the first online video game. Like I played with, I had a clan and everything back in the day. We were just, the Halo, November 9th, Halo 2 and Jack 3 came out on the same day. I bought both of them. I brought them back to my dorm and I did not open Jack 3 for a month because all we played was Halo 2. But yeah, yeah. So going to the snooze and can Halo return to that glory? Like become the guy.
00:02:07
Speaker
Hey, Xbox needs a guy like a guy you like more like Nintendo's got a couple of guys, if I'll be honest. Nintendo has a couple of guys. A couple of guys. Smash, which is just like a game about a bunch of guys. I don't know, does Sony have guys? Could Astrobot be Sony's guy? They keep pushing Astrobot. It's not. Their guy is Kratos. Their guy is or their gal is Aloy. They're not guys. But like, yeah, they're all lesser guys than Nintendo's guys. But those are at least their guys.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah. Like, who are Xbox's guys? Master Chief was the guy. Was. Keyword. So we'll talk about whether Master Chief can beat it. I mean, he hasn't started the game for a while. Yeah, I don't know. He's just so, like, I think Marcus, to me, is Kratos, which, like, I love seeing both of them, but they're not the guy.
00:03:01
Speaker
Like they're not a guy where if I saw him on the street, I was like, hell yeah, there's a guy. I think Ash would have bought that guy. You would absolutely say, hell yeah, if you saw Kratos in his treats. Yeah, we did when we were at Pex West. Did we? We saw Kratos. Yeah, yeah is there was heavyset Kratos in those streets. Kratos! We love our heavyset Kratos here.
Audience Interaction and Support
00:03:20
Speaker
ah And yeah, thank you all so much, everyone who's watching live right now on YouTube. If you're listening on your podcast service of choice, we appreciate you. I remember our stuff is... ah powered by your incredible super chats, your donos, your patronage, and just honestly, your good vibes across the board. Before we get into the actual news, I have a secret news.
Mountain Dew Nostalgic Rebranding
00:03:43
Speaker
Nick. The Real News of the Week. Mountain Dew is getting a new logo. Have you heard? BAM! CNN right in the chat. Mountain Dew is getting a new logo and it's going back to its roots.
00:04:00
Speaker
which are the mountainous. Because Mountain Dew was was created in the Smoky Mountains and it's going back to like a retro nostalgia Mountain Dew logo. And I'm gonna tell you guys, I'm excited for this. Because I'm sick of this edgelord shit. i don't want I don't want the anger. I don't want Mountain Dew to be anger. That's anger logo. I don't want that anger logo. We don't need that. Why is everyone so mad? There's only soda. And so it's going back to the fucking titular mountains.
00:04:27
Speaker
And let me tell you, Smokey Mountains, where Mountain Dew is created. Top 5 American Mountain. Top 5 American Mountain, that's what you want to put out there. Yeah, this is not like boring, you know, every other logo on the planet these days. It still looks like Mountain Dew logo.
00:04:44
Speaker
No, it's going, it's going back. Let me tell you a back to the roots. That's what everything's about. Halo's going to be doing it. Everyone's going to be going back to the roots. That's actually a really good point. Yeah. Like that. That seems to be the way for these big corporations. You're like, Oh, we fallen from the path. We strayed. Where, how did we get here? We have to remember
Nintendo's Lifestyle Products
00:04:59
Speaker
where we came from. And they say the mountains, we came from the mountains. What was Zelda in Breath of the Wild? They were like, we got to go back. We got to figure out how why did people like the original Zelda? Straight too far. Yeah. Hmm.
00:05:15
Speaker
At least it's not. What's that? What did Sierra Miss change their logo back to? Starry. Starry. Yeah, they just did just gave up on the name Sierra Miss entirely. It's just a bummer because Miss is cool. Like the idea of Miss. I think it's cool. Missed fog. We'll be talking about Silent Hill 2. Like fog is cool. um Oh, my God. Someone I saw it on PC, they're just removing the frog from Silent Hill 2. Let me tell you, still a good looking game. Silent Hill 2, still a great looking game.
00:05:45
Speaker
Is there, I think it's Dr. Pepper, like the only one that really hasn't changed this logo much. Cause Dr. looks like Dr. Pepper. He's not a jesus does not have a a doctor. He's just a loser. He's a practicing loser. yeah he's a He's Mr. What? We're all misters. He dropped out of med school. It's all right. Yeah. He owns it. Do you guys have a favorite mountain range?
00:06:11
Speaker
No. The boogie on the spot. This is an easy question. No, I do not. No. I mean, Jersey doesn't have a lot of mountains, right? Can't still have a lot of mountains. so Jersey has some mixed terrain. I mean, the Rocky Mountains. Mixed terrain does not equal mountains. I like the Rocky Mountains. I love the Rocky Mountains. They're clearly rocky in their mountains.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah. And they're like, I feel like they create a national border, which is what like a good fantasy mountain does. Yes. It's like, I'm just going to fucking put a border here and there's shit to the left, shit to the right and everything else goes. The Tetons, Grand Tetons are great. ah Sierra Nevada's a great, great. It does have mountains. Like lower Appalachia. I don't know how low, lower Appalachia is, but Mount Tammany elevation of 1000. It has a mountain.
00:07:01
Speaker
There's a couple, but this this is the only this is the biggest one. Also, shout out to Fuji. What was that? The Misty Mountains. Oh, that's a little low to We'll get into the rewind if you want to hear a little bit about the Misty Mountains. ah But yeah, shout out to Mountain Dew. Congrats. RIP, whatever you want to say to Mountain Dew.
00:07:21
Speaker
Everything's fine. All these bottles sitting on my desk. These can be worth something. No, probably not. No, they will not. Before we go into the actual news, I bought the actual news is not real news. The only actual news is our main topic today. I bought. When Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace came out, they had a big promotion where like a month beforehand for Pepsi and Mountain Dew and like all that shit, they had an's with characters of the movies. You could collect like, I think it was like 24 different cans. So you'd get like an Anakin can, an Obi-Wan can, a Sub Bowl butt can, a Darth Maul can.
00:08:00
Speaker
First off, Saboba, greatest pod racer of all time. I know people are like, he's like dirty and he kills people on the track. It's fine. It's pod racing. That's what about. There's no rules in pod racing. And literally no rules. He could shoot fire out of his things and then the announcer's like, well, that's just what he's doing.
00:08:15
Speaker
Fucking Java runs it. What do you think Java's gonna put rules in that thing? I bought, I ended up accumulating ah a can of every character, kept them in a closet, went away to college. What do you think happened? They all exploded. Spoilers, they all exploded. They all exploded. My friend in high school did the exact thing.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, like he he was he was hoarding like all that game fuel cans and then he he like left him in there for a year. And then one day he just opened his closet. He's like, this is a disaster. Like, is it like extreme temperature? Like, what why? It's just like the hand of Zoda will bulge and then eventually blow up. Yeah. But I just left that room temperature like this carbonation worrisome. That's problematic. John, you asked a good question. You guys want to tie some more together? You want to know what closet that was?
00:09:05
Speaker
Was it the closet behind you? Was it that closet? Was that where the door was broken? Oh, faithful. Oh, faithful. Oh, it was not that. Didn't blow it off. It's in jail. Like, I'm not letting go. Speed 2 cruise control. um But yeah, shout out the mountains.
00:09:18
Speaker
In conclusion, Shadow of the Mountains. The real news we want to talk about right now is ah Nintendo and their big announcement today. Some people were thinking maybe, is this is this it? Are we ready? This is right around the time when they announced the Switch back in 2016. Is this when we're going to get some love for the next console? And ah no, Nintendo announced a new piece of hardware, but it was the Nintendo Alarmo.
00:09:43
Speaker
Yes, you guys want to guess what it is? It's an alarm clock. A fat clock. Yeah, it's a... um Fat cock time clock with a $5 Dono saying, oh my God, they made me do an alarm clock. Yeah, it's it's an alarm clock that has some... ah some smart integration to it. you can like this say It's going to make certain noises at certain times of the day. um This goes with all of the Nintendo stuff. like This makes sense to me. right like this is Nintendo is all about play and experimentation and lifestyle. and so All of this all
00:10:26
Speaker
Nintendo fans, how does it make sense? All of this checks out Nintendo's sleep. Pokemon, look at all these things, the the Vitality sensor, like all of this. It all the orbits around the central Nintendo. You just don't really. It's a hundred dollars. Just program your phone to play music from Nintendo games to wake you up and get these one hundred.
00:10:52
Speaker
less American dollars. yeah Like the playful functionality of this, they they tell you is that as you like toss and turn in waking up, it plays noises. So like it sees that you're moving and it reacts to you by playing noises. And is that like super unimpressive to anybody else? Like that feels like a complete waste of that sort of technology. but it's all what's What's better, this or the Xbox fridge?
00:11:22
Speaker
The Xbox fridge bridge is more useful. You can only, yeah it's like it's just tiny. Yeah. The problem is it's its size, but as a novelty, even it's fun to just have a slightly bigger Xbox. Cause it's just like I have one. It just sits in the room here. Well, now you're going to block on top of your ah little Xbox. I can, I can see this being like real fun for a kid. Like there's an absolute great Christmas present to like a kid who loves, you know, Nintendo stuff. Or my son would eat this up and he does need to wake his ass up on time on certain mornings. But I don't know. it's Who uses clocks anymore? We all have phones and watches. Smartwatch. It's true. yeah Again, like ah this is the case for like young kids, yeah. The funniest thing is they said, so there's that movement-based thing that you talked about where like if you're tossing and turning it, they'll throw different noises at you. ah They specifically say ah it will not work if they're a small...
00:12:13
Speaker
multiple people in the back. It is for children and it is for sad, sad, lonelies. I'm going to be honest, I'm not proud.
00:12:26
Speaker
um but i agree but but know Is it already up for for order? but I should probably try to buy one. It's up for, it's over. You you guys go. It's for child. It's for my child. It's for my child. All right. I don't have kids. I'm not buying it for my dogs. I use the same excuse. so The Gooner clock.
00:12:48
Speaker
This no no no no no no no there's no no no going a allowed is last week was all about Gooners. This week is wholesome. This week's about the nice clock and it's about his Halo doing all right. This is a nice, don't bring Gooners into this. Absolutely. Don't bring Gooners into this. Goon squad cannot represent with the Nintendo quad.
00:13:08
Speaker
ah the but but I'm sure that they're going to, they're going to put something, right? They'll put, so they'll they'll announce a switch soon. yeah Who knows? At this yeah at this point, anybody's guess.
00:13:22
Speaker
send alarm for this thing or anything I did set several alarms tomorrow because, oh, I almost don't want to tell people the time because they said it's first come, first serve. Okay. scratch Scratch when I put a date. Nintendo is going to be announcing, they put out a tweet that ah they're going to have a play test program for current members of their online ah service, which is like but but Xbox does that all the time, right? Like Xbox insider or whatever it is where it's like, Oh, test some new features. They've never done this before. Eric put on the picture. I don't want anyone getting in before me.
00:14:02
Speaker
i mean play on because these's fucking mouthb breathers before me i ah but don't no So tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. Central, they said, first come, first serve. They're going to have a play test program for something. Nintendo Switch Online, which. That hasn't changed in a very long time, so I don't know what that's going to be. So my thought is maybe this is something to do with Switch.
00:14:31
Speaker
No, probably not new switch. What do you think it is? Eric, don't put the fucking link. Don't let him don't give him the link. Make him Google it. God damn it. I swear to God, if they get in before me, go and ape shit. There's no way this is something that you as a Nintendo fan want. Like, that is my stance. Like, if you're like if you could possibly be excited for what this turns out to be, it is not that. I made a modern online system for Nintendo. It actually works well. Like, whatever it is they need to test, it is not to your benefit. You know what? You know what? this That is the real intent. Casey, I'm not falling for that. This is just you trying to get everybody to go away so you can get in to make sure it's not about Smash online. I don't care about this. You're lying. What if they're like, what if I sign up and Sakurai is like, hey, Marty, it's me, Sakurai, your friend. I have a bunch of Smash news to share with you and you alone that you can't share with any of your friends and coworkers. It'll never happen. And if Sakurai shared secret information with you and you didn't share it with me, Marty, you'd be dead to me.
00:15:35
Speaker
Understandably. like Understandably. I'm not like I'm not a big fan of breaking and NDA's for that one. Probably worth breaking an NDA. You know what I'm saying? But Sakurai and I would sign a friendier. That's what we'd sign. If your life depended on it, would you break an NDA from Sakurai? Why I know, wouldn't threaten your life, though. okay see what also why If you trust the person, you can break an NDA.
00:16:05
Speaker
that's secret with secret ada rules like Like don't cheat. You've played games for review around people who didn't sign that NDA, right? yeah My son has helped me play games that were under embargo. Yeah. Yeah. Play games with girlfriends and roommates. Yeah. Your dogs have fucking senior games, Nick. If Nintendo finds out they're putting down. I don't need that alarm clock. I got my dogs.
00:16:32
Speaker
who let the dogs out, comma, who, who. A couple of super chats before we move on to the to to our main topic. ah Quintuple A, thank you so much. With your $2 down now. Appreciate you, Quintuple. Thank you. ah Metaphor Refantazio, go nuts, Marty. Oh, I will. Don't worry. that's that's That's for the final section. That's for what's what we've been playing. Did I tell you guys? Finished it. How many hours?
00:16:58
Speaker
Quarter than persona. How many hours? 77. That's like standard JRPG. No, that's actually like light JRPG. It's beefy, but it is not as beefy. So if you're if you're worried about 115 hours, 77.
00:17:17
Speaker
It's going to take me four years to finish instead of the seven. A lot of years. and was take A lot of years. Once you just sit down and fucking play it like an adult. I loved it. I loved it. We're going to talk about it later more ink with 75 with five Canadian dollars. Appreciate you. Everyone's on the lead edge of their seats waiting for news on switch to Nintendo dot dot dot clock.
Nintendo Hardware Announcement Reaction
00:17:42
Speaker
Do you think they know what they're doing? I think they know what they're doing.
00:17:46
Speaker
Or do you think they're just like so innocent and oblivious that they're just like, I think it might be the second I part. No, maybe innocent price myself but you're absolutely oblivious or not innocent, They have to be oblivious. Like, cause the, like the, the pressure from their fans to be like, Hey, Nintendo, please. And for them to just be like a clock, like, no, there's no way they, there's no way they anticipated that people would shrug this off.
00:18:15
Speaker
Eric, put a link to a picture in our Discord chat. But there are like a bunch of 99 cent clocks you could just buy in the shop that are like a bunch of bullshit companies. It was really funny that Nintendo was like, no, we will release the true clock. They should do the same with those hentai puzzle games that I got hoodwinked into buying two of them for 99 cents. Oh, no. Nintendo joins the goon squad. I do not believe.
00:18:39
Speaker
I mean, there's a couple like the Splatoon is absolutely good squad. You can make a titular fat cock. The aforementioned fat cock with a $5 don't know. Thank you so much fat cock. I feel personally attacked. I don't blame yeah ah yeah you. blame you. Are you worth $100 fat cock? That's what I'm talking about. Would you rather have $100 fat clock or $100?
00:19:08
Speaker
I'm not going to finish that. Yeah. Don't finish that. No, no, no money for the lovely peeps. So worm. Thank you so much. Jewel. Don't think, uh, what's it do you want to know my halo? Nick. Hey, all your life you you you skipped the whole intro where I said I didn't come up with this topic today. Marty did. So nobody can get mad at me for talking about halo.
00:19:30
Speaker
I'm going to feel like in my intro, i sort i like gave I'd throw you, if if you needed to be thrown under the bus, I'd throw you under the bus. like This is big news.
Halo Studios: Future Plans and Challenges
00:19:40
Speaker
I'm just perpetually under the bus. It's fine. You just live under the bus. This is big news, obviously. As we said, like Master Chief was one of the the few that guys.
00:19:49
Speaker
in the history of video games. We didn't have a lot of that guys. Master Chief's one of that guys. But the big, the big Halo news that dropped right at the end of the weekend is that a lot of changes at Halo. Obviously there were um layoffs and and the the future of Infinite was sort of up in the air over the past few years. ah But 343 Industries, the three four three industries the the developer of Halo since Halo 4 has rebranded as Halo Studios.
00:20:19
Speaker
So just a very clear cut. This is what we're doing. um And they're considering this ah part of of the Halo legacy, which has been going on since 2001, to be Chapter 3. So the Bungie Halo was Chapter 1. The 343 Halo, which was, you know, 4-5 infinite. ah That is Chapter 2. And this is Chapter 3 of Halo, which includes moving away from the slip space engine, their proprietary engine, onto Unreal Engine 5.
00:20:48
Speaker
which is what just a lot of ah play games and games in general moving on to. And they said several projects are in development and showed off a... They said it wasn't a tech demo, wasn't a proof of concept, but it was just sort of Halo existing in Unreal 5 to sort of show people that like, hey, this can this can exist outside of the engine that we have created.
00:21:14
Speaker
um all of that is to say, Nick, you are one of the biggest Halo fans ever met in my life. like what What did you think about this news? oh I'm in wait and see mode. Obviously, I'm i'm working on my next Unpacked script, which is going to dig deep into ah the restructuring that 343 went to to become Halo Studios because I think a lot of people like the news has been kind of dropping sporadically for like the last two years, honestly, because like Halo 343's entire leadership team is different now. Bonnie Ross is gone, Kiki Wilfel's gone, Joseph Staton's gone, Frank O'Connor's gone. Pretty much anybody that was in leadership at that studio is gone.
00:21:55
Speaker
And it's a completely new studio. So a lot of people are still 343. It's the same people. It's like, no, that studio over the last two years since the launch of Infinite has gone through a complete transformation. and I'm trying to find out if they're still using contractors like they were. But my gut is telling me no, because even like the Vidak that a Eric showing in the corner there, they're talking about like actually hiring talent to keep at the studio. And so I imagine all of the issues that led into Halo Infinite have maybe woken Microsoft up is like, Hey, this is our golden goose game. Like we got to treat this studio with the respect it deserves. Not 18 month contract workers that we have attrition at the studio all the time. oh So this this video in particular didn't do much for me aside from like, OK, cool. They're moving on real engine like.
00:22:52
Speaker
is Halo going to make a comeback. I really have no idea because, you know, I'm working on that Mapex script and the the trailer that I always go, but like, as soon as I finished Halo Infinite's campaign and I was like left with huge disappointment, you can go back and watch my review on the escapist about that.
00:23:08
Speaker
There's the initial reveal trailer for Halo Infinite and the Slipspace engine where you get all these different environments, all these different animals, all those kinds of like really good looking environments and stuff. And none of that existed in Halo Infinite. And Jason Shire's report on Bloomberg about the development of the game talked about how it like two thirds of the content in the game was cut in 2019. It was supposed to be a big open world game.
00:23:34
Speaker
Zelda-ish And you can feel that from the intro of the game when you step out of the prologue basically and you read it to the wide open, right? So, you know, the game doesn't never felt complete in that way. So I don't know like it they can they can put out the flashy videos and the flashy concept art and the flashy tech demos like this because that's what they did with slip space but until I see the game in action and like They prove that that studio is not just 343 again, and it's actually Halo Studios or whatever they're going to do. Like that's that's where I'm at with it.
00:24:08
Speaker
So, Casey, yeah we when we were yeah well going over like, wait, what are we going to talk about in this week's show? And I threw down this topic, you're like what's what's going on here? And I was i think I said ah summed it up as like, oh, this is their kind of last chance to reclaim their former glory. like they were like Again, just remember, Halo was at the top of... Halo was bigger than Call of Duty at a time, like halo was like Halo was the it game. Like the way people talk about like Fortnite or Minecraft that at its height, World of Warcraft at its height, that was Halo for a time. And you ah correctly said, haven't we heard that before, that this is this our last chance to get to the title? We reached that goal again. like you know i might and yeah Like I myself have made that claim back when you know I was doing podcasts probably on one of these shows at some point like that. Yes, like this very much looks like it's three four threes like infinite was three four threes last chance to sort of get it right before it falls into obscurity. um But I think what this really tells us because this the same thing was said about Mass Effect when that was like hanging on by a thread, um probably Dragon Age that was mentioned at some point.
00:25:21
Speaker
what What I feel like I've learned from all this is that some IPs are kind of just too big. Like we'll never hear the end of Halo. Like even if this does come out and is a dud, they'll just give another try down the road and everyone will be ready to give it a chance because people still love Halo. Like it's not as big as it was, but the love for how big it was still exists in like the DNA of just video game culture. So it just takes the one time for them to get it right and it'll be back. Like that's kind of how I feel at this point.
00:25:51
Speaker
That being said, um i I'm very curious, like, yeah, with all the tumultuous happenings over at 343, the Slip Space stuff, that was just infinite, right? Like, five and four, but what engine were they using then? Like, was that not a factor? They were still using their own engine, but... Slip Space was like an evolution of that engine. Like, they said that there's a certain attack in Slip Space that's been around since Halo 1.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah. And it did not, it did not lend well to making a live service game is what the big problem was. And, but did I ever really become a live service game? Because like, I understand that, um, yeah, eventually was sort of disappointing, but like the base game, even if it wasn't everything they promised, I had a lot of fun in the halo infinite campaign. Like I really liked ah the concept that they went for with this sort of open world-ish master chief experience. And like if they kind of just did it again and like added in more of the stuff that they wanted to into that world, like more environments, more different scenarios and whatnot, it probably would have been a better, like it would have been a better iteration. It's just that first one didn't hit because of I guess the tail on it.
00:27:06
Speaker
Yeah. So the thing, the thing I'm worried about really quick, and I'll throw it to you, Nick, because you have a ton more to say than I do, is ah my thing about Halo Infinite is that game feels good. That is a good feeling game to play. And it feels like Halo, which I am very skeptical if, and I i don't know a lot about engines, like I'm very ignorant to all this stuff, but I feel like Halo feels different than any other shooter, and it's felt that way since Halo 1, and it's been iterated upon all the way through, and no matter what you say about Halo games, they all feel like Halo. Can you do that in Unreal?
00:27:43
Speaker
I mean, i yeah, i don't I don't see. I don't think they would switch to it if they could not, because I think at least that studio knows how important the feel of Halo is. What is Destiny built on? There are legend that's a good point. Destiny feels like yeah Destiny feels like Halo. and yeah I mean, it's the people who build Halo, of course. So gameplay feel comes down to animations and sound and all that stuff, which is all doable. Yeah. I mean, you can play you can play any type of like military FPS on Unreal and they all feel different. And it's just it's just who's making the game really. I don't think the engine the engine is going to have much to do with that.
00:28:18
Speaker
um ah what is goingnna take the folks It's take, like you say, Marty, like you recognize what Halo feels like when you play a game. If the people on that dev team know what Halo feels like, that's what they're gonna be trying to hit. And like it's not done unless it hits that mark. And like yeah the the hope is that you know that that that newer team care enough to be like, this needs to feel like the Halo we remember as opposed to.
00:28:43
Speaker
a brand new thing because like we definitely want to see a bunch of iteration, but it does still need to feel like the thing that they're building on. yeah And it is what you said, what you said Nick with, sorry, sorry, I actually got it already. But no, what you said with ah how so many of those familiar names, but for better or for worse, are gone. So many of the names associated with modern Halo and then even like Joseph state and for legacy Halo are gone.
00:29:08
Speaker
Is that good? like yeah like Obviously Halo hasn't been fantastic over the past decade, um but is losing that sort of ah ah leadership or ingrained knowledge Good. Good. Look, what is it? who What is Halo 25 years after it debuted? Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm digging into my and digging into in my script, because like the people the people that left for mostly management positions, you know, people deciding like Bonnie Ross and all that really and Kiki Wolf Hill.
00:29:44
Speaker
um no ill will towards them or anything for the franchise, like a lot of the Internet. But, you know, they wanted Halo to be and they were and they were from Microsoft, right? So they wanted Halo to be a big transmedia property where they had the movies, the TV shows, the games, the books, whatever it was. And I mean, didn't we all? i mean Well, when you like Halo 4 was a really solid game. Like if you I'm going back and like looking and reading through the reviews as I'm researching through the script and like forget you easy, easy to forget like how positive people were about that game. Halo five is where everything really fell off the map because the marketing campaign was better than the game. And then Mike Coulter, right? Like, yeah, Michael Coulter as a star. What was his in game character name again?
00:30:31
Speaker
ah Asian lock lock. I thought that's a cool character and name Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why people didn't like him that much just I guess just cuz he was hunting Master Chief and she was only John Locke fans were lost and there you think that man's name and People liked him as a character. The problem was like Halo 5 story was just a fucking mess.
00:30:48
Speaker
and And then they tried to add in all these extra elements and they did nothing with them. They dropped all these narrative plot lines. And then, yeah, it was around. They tried to reboot, but also keep elements from Halo 4 and 5. It becomes more of a mess. Now you have the banish from Halo Wars 2, which everybody nobody that doesn't like RTS games played. So nobody knew who the banish were. Then you had to get a bunch of the prelude to Halo Infinite from a book, The Shadows of Reach.
00:31:14
Speaker
Greetings for nerds. Yeah, like me. And so it just halo infinite from the grounds that was but from I guess the ground floor basically was just destined to be kind of a mess because they had too much baggage. It was also tied with Microsoft just stepping on rakes and tripping on their own dicks. yeah So it's like it will forever be tied with that of like Like what like what ah what is this console? What is it launching with? Like what happened with the... I guess that's the the push and pull of if you are the guy, if you're the dude, then you're associated with the platform you're on. Yep. And then, you know, it wasn't supposed to be a launch title for the Xbox Series S and X, got delayed a whole year and got content and all this other stuff. So I...
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, I like I don't I don't know what the future of Halo looks like, but it is at that point where and it's a point I'm i'm writing about in the video is. I did not expect like Gears of War to just drop after five and go back to a prequel. And that tells me like Xbox and kind of has it.
00:32:25
Speaker
kind of figured out like people were not as high on Gears 5 and to save- Gears 5 was so good. What are we doing? It was good, but the like the larger fan base didn't particularly love it. And so how do you win them back? You go back and you start over. And that's I think that's exactly what they're going to do. with having it It also feels like once you once you do a certain number of sequels in a continuous story, that is you do sort of run out of steam regardless, like you either have to start over or you you end it. Yeah.
00:32:54
Speaker
I mean, I think Aftermath, the ah the the the publication that started like right around when we started, right? yeah was um They put up a great piece of like, should Halo die? It was less like after Halo and more of like, should we let these franchises end and then someone and then have them go on to something else? like Bungie was able to leave Halo and make Destiny, and Destiny is certainly not without its problems, obviously, right now. ah But they were able to create something new. um i'm I'm getting ah a similar feeling to, which we'll talk about in a little bit, Metaphor Refantazio, like the creative leads of Persona 3 and 4 and 5. They were able to make something different. Yes, that different thing feels a lot like the original thing, in that Destiny feels a lot like Halo.
00:33:44
Speaker
but they didn't have those chains weighing them down, right? The the chains of, oh, there's 20 years of lore and you need to answer this and this. And there's some fans who love the books and some fans who play the RTSs and some fans who want X and Y and Z. And you could just make something fresh. And fresh is dangerous. Like I have no doubt Metavari and Fantasia was going to sell way less than Persona 5 did and then Persona 6 will.
Halo's Narrative and Gameplay Evolution
00:34:09
Speaker
But there's just something nice about not having that baggage and I don't know, I'm torn because I'm also the i'm a fucking Zelda fan and I'm a Mario fan and I'm a Final Fantasy fan. and but i mean though those i I made a video about this way back when as well. Like those as sequels have the benefit of not continuing a narrative. Like they get to be brand new games if they want to be with every iteration, which is why they have such
00:34:38
Speaker
Ridiculous longevity. And that's that's kind of the thing. Like ah the problem with these franchises, I don't think it's so much the franchise. It's that they're afraid to let their star character go. Yeah. Instead of creating new character like Agent Lock was a cool character in Halo 5. I would have played a game with my culture as the lead star of a Halo game. And that's where like I.
00:35:03
Speaker
i I believe Halo's, at least where I would take it, is going back to ah the blue team stuff in Halo, which we've talked about on this podcast before, a little bit about the lore, like blue team is, uh, Masked Squad, and the books focus a lot on that stuff. They have a lot of material there. That's where the show should have focused on, but they went this whole silver timeline bullshit, whatever they want to do with it. Did the show get canceled? Yes, the show got canceled. yeah That wasn't even like me trying to take a date. I was literally like, I can't remember. yeah But Halo, Halo, like,
00:35:33
Speaker
I love Halo one through three, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and say like the stories are like super great and in depth. Like those are games are really good. I really liked the stories, but I think there is a place where like they're doing with E day where you can get more personal with it, more mature and adult in Halo as a franchise. That's the gears. What, what gears is going to. Yeah. And Halo, Halo hasn't really grown up with its audience. It tried to with four.
00:35:59
Speaker
And then five was whatever five was an infinite kind of reset things, but they didn't do like the full reset that I think they need to do to. be that franchise and evolve with it. Kind of like God of War, right? God of War 1 through 3 and Ascension are all, you know, for that teen audience. And then they that audience grew up in God of War. and And that's a really good comparison. Yeah, that's actually it's because Kratos and the original, I guess all Master Chief all almost feels the same where they feel like an an angry teen avatar for the audience, which is not bad.
00:36:33
Speaker
But it just feels like what it is, whereas the Kratos in 2018 and Ragnarok, you know, feels like a maturation of that that went along with the creators. so Like it's not home it's a character who's ashamed of what he's done in the past. The Joker. And I don't want that. I don't want that from Halo, but like even in the books, like the blue team storylines are much more adult and human stories than just big green guy shoots aliens. Well, that's.
00:37:04
Speaker
What if we have Master Chief? He's got a beard coming out of his helmet because the beard bes are ashamed of if if media has taught me anything, when you grow a beard, you got some demons in my closet. nice Things were not going well for the last 20 years. I don't want to talk about reach. I don't I don't think I do not think Halo will ever be the behemoth franchise that it once was no matter what they do, because the multiplayer just isn't as fast-paced and Call of Duty-ish, but eight the the direction I could see it getting to that is if they really go back to the sandbox stuff that made it fun in the first place. Because Halo 4 and 5 and even Reach even like really started targeting that competitive audience, and that's where it lost its identity. Halo is at its best when you're in these big, expansive mads. You got tanks, airplanes, or ah tanks.
00:37:57
Speaker
things flying around, people doing dumb tricks off of gravity dwells and all that kind of stuff. I mean, whats to that point, you you may be right that in terms of like, as being a multiplayer behemoth, it may never reach those heights because of all the competition. But as a co-op thing,
00:38:14
Speaker
It could absolutely eat the lunch of something like Helldivers, which was like a big ass hit but from a no name IP. Right. Like if Halo all of a sudden was the premier group up with your friends, let's play through some PVP stuff experience like that would fight. how Yeah. you see you date Yeah.
00:38:31
Speaker
They used to have all the sectors covered, but like, yeah, if they really hone in on like one of their strengths, like the sandbox of a single player experience, but then, you know, co-op because people ah like one of my greatest video game achievements was playing through the entirety of Halo 2 on Legendary difficulty with like one of my old college dorm roommates. Like we just spent week after week going through every single level.
00:38:53
Speaker
getting through legendary. Like that's amazing. Like, can we have something like that back in the same thing? alllthough We've got two levels in really. This is too hard. sometimes marty tried It is so it is. I would love to throw fucking Sean Zirovsky, one of my best friends under the bus. But no, I was not pulling my weight in there. I was like a little bit better than he was, but it was not good enough to pull our team. shout the zo upki Yeah, infinite, infinite.
00:39:21
Speaker
like ah such a frustrating project to even think about because like you can see all the potential there like Casey said the gameplay is really good but man that campaign. You could tell that campaign was thrown together last minute. like every We know story like almost a stem exact there's no cut scenes. All the stories done through audio. We know personally that um there was cut story DLC. We know from reports that there's the cut, not cut, I guess, canceled
00:39:53
Speaker
ah battle royale, the Tanaka thing that's been covered a bunch. So like infinite was going to be the literally its name. It was going to be this is Halo forever. That was the plan. Also, don't call. Just don't call. Just yeah, I have that money. This is going to be the thing forever. becauses because shoot dick off Yep. I will. I will check a little bit. Just just Corden from Windows Central as I'm researching that exact ah thing about the campaign DLC. There was never like actually any planned or cut DLC. Just never made it past talking. Which is also frustrated the shit out of me. It sounds like it's past music, because is that where we heard it?
00:40:33
Speaker
but That's where, yeah. Yeah. I think he was a riot. Yeah. Something was concepted, but they never went with it. Sure. So yeah, I don't, you know, I think, I think once the shit hit the fan, we're like the life service stuff wasn't even ready because don't forget like.
00:40:49
Speaker
Season 1 launched with Halo Infinite. Season 2 did not launch until May of 2022, so five months after. And then the Season 3 didn't even launch until November. Most games are launching like a season every two months at this point, if not if not sooner.
00:41:04
Speaker
I mean, so that's one of the other things is talking about the Halo can never be what it was before is almost less because of Halo and more because of in 2001 to 2007, Halo was a very big fish in a relatively small pond. Now, Halo, no matter how big of a fish it could be, is in the biggest fucking pond. And yeah, like Halo is responsible for that in part, like Halo moves, like Halo grew the sides of the pond.
00:41:34
Speaker
And it's like partly, like Fat Cock with a $5 don't know, love you Fat Cock. Just a little goof, Call of Duty was better. They're now siblings, step-siblings, half-siblings, like they're owned by Microsoft now, so yeah like Microsoft owns.
00:41:50
Speaker
Call of Duty, which was probably one of the things that that steered a lot of people away from Halo in the you know with Modern Warfare and the explosion from there. and ah Then you know you had Fortnite, you had PUBG, you have Siege, you just have you have ah a million games now. You have games from the creators of Halo and from the creators of Battlefield who are trying to form their own indie studios and make their own things. um and i just don't it there's just i don't it seems It seems so hard.
00:42:18
Speaker
ah good A good comparison is Battlefield. like Battlefield was at the top of his game at Battlefield 4 and kind of lost its way after. I love Battlefield 1 and I don't mind Battlefield 5, but Battlefield 2042, I don't like to talk about that one. But that is a franchise as well that is currently reinventing itself to try to take back that spot.
00:42:39
Speaker
So which, both of you, ah obviously, Vincent Pella is sort of overseeing the the the change in Battlefield. We have this with Halo Studios. If you had to put money on one of them, which one is still existing in 10 years? Which one's doing better in 10 years? Are they both still existing? do you Are you optimistic about both of these or either of these?
00:43:03
Speaker
um Battlefield a lot more confident in because they kind of figured it out at at the end of 2042's life cycle. They had figured it out. Halo Infinite also, I think, as you know, now that it's kind of at the end of its life cycle as well as figured it out, I think like forage is the best it's ever been. Like you can design people were starting to get high on it by the end. Yeah, people are designing fucking campaign missions and forge now. There's like you can put music in and an AI and everything. It's crazy. Like there's a whole there's a dude like making a whole
00:43:34
Speaker
Uh, campaign mission, like with like hell divers stuff or something like that. I don't even know, but it's, it's insane what they're doing in Forge. So I think, I think Halo does have like the template to be successful going forward. I think infinite, like really set up that team to know what they need to make. And that is the one thing in the Vidak that I liked hearing is like, we're focused on making content, not thinking around with an engine anymore. Yeah.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, essentially because he said they they have multiple games and development. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing they said is that they with the shift on real engine five, they don't have to simultaneously make an engine and the tools along with the game. They could just focus on the games and it is plural. They have many projects in development. you So what I'm curious, what projects do you think they have in development? Because I heard a rumor that I cannot remember from where that there's a ah remake on the way like a a Halo Combat Evolved remake.
00:44:33
Speaker
I would imagine. Is that a thing you you would want? You think that's a good idea? I don't. I don't. What happened there? You're fine. Oh, okay. um i You know what? having Having, I said no immediately, but also after streaming Halo CE a couple of years ago with Amy,
00:44:57
Speaker
I think that game could use a remake. Yeah. Is it like a lot of the levels are reused by design, but also limitations of the time. um So I wouldn't be I wouldn't be ah against it, but I wouldn't want that to be the future of Halo, just replaying Halo two and three again. I want I want them.
00:45:14
Speaker
umm I'm okay if they reboot the franchise entirely, but yeah I want them to go back and use the books that they have that are great that people adore as their starting point, like focusing on Blue Team and Master Chief and all that.
00:45:29
Speaker
well Would it rub you the wrong way? Because I understand the logic of that. but Would it rub you the wrong way as a big fan if they were like, we're just starting over. Like, this is Halo. Like, there's a Master Chief, but everything is different. Like, the game and is, you know, what it is. And the story is this new path. And it has nothing to do with the books, nothing to do with the previous lore. It turned to do with the show.
00:45:53
Speaker
I mean, we're not talking about a TV show, though. We're talking about where Halo belongs, which is in the video game space. Yeah. yeah But I think for me, I think I'd be the most excited about something like that, something that is just fully unburdened by any of the lore baggage or history that the franchise has had to keep up with. Like it's an IP. Everyone knows it by name. That's like the value of the stuff to the big corporations. But for this new ah development studio, the freedom for them to just do what they want with that IP, I think would be awesome. I'll go back to what I said about them aging up the game, because like they're in the books and all that. There's just so much politics and stuff going on between the UNSC, the rebels. or I forget what they're called at the top of my head right now. but
00:46:43
Speaker
And then the covenant like there's so much going on there that the games never really explored out of a sort of a base level of The prophets and all that kind of stuff like some of the religious angles that it takes I think halo really could just go back to the starting point and go deeper with that stuff and like You know so many FPS campaigns these days are about squads and stuff like that Like people like to play people love playing co-op. It's kind of weird Even back then, it was kind of weird having two Master Chief side to side. And at the time when it was Master Chief and Arbor playing together, that was really cool. Yes, they played differently. And so like I could see that working for Halo going forward and and revisiting a lot of the earlier stuff, even before Halo one, because there's a lot that happens before even Halo one happens.
00:47:28
Speaker
ah But going back to what you asked, Casey, I 100% think the first project from the studio will be a remake slash remaster of Halo 1, Halo 2 Master Chief Collection. I goofed. where a month We're literally a month today away from the 20-year anniversary of Halo 2. I think we're going to see something there. I don't know what that means. But like in the same way, Naughty Dog very much was like, all right, when we moved to PS4, we had a certain group of our team
00:47:58
Speaker
kind of learn PS4 architecture by by ah remastering the Last of Us. And then they did the same thing with Uncharted. And then on PS5, they did the same thing. Again, we will learn this architecture by having them of remaster both Last of Us games. Yeah, I mean, i mean honestly, re remaking the first Halo in Unreal Engine would just be a good way to make sure, hey, this all works.
00:48:21
Speaker
yeah you the will been good and i like that they are doing that And if we played it and we're like, Oh man, this feels like Halo, but it just looks really good. There you go. That's like a vote of confidence for what they're doing going forward. It would definitely give them momentum. Yeah. They don't need a whole massive team to remake that game. It's a good, it's a good starting point. It's a good way to show confidence in the studio before they do their own thing again.
00:48:46
Speaker
I like I'm not I'm not against that and it clearly makes sense to do that for them um But yeah, I definitely like I said, I just don't want to I don't want to replay all the games I've replayed I just I want to or I've already played I want to play something new and I like ah if it goes back in time and just Before Halo CE or more even if we get a deeper look at the fall of reach from Master Chief's perspective and all that great.
00:49:10
Speaker
And if he goes back to when his dad met his mom and he tries to bone his mom, I'll get back to the future. I don't know if I want to go back that far. We already got enough mess, your cheeks in the show, but, um, ah like the fall of reach even would be a good starting place just from a cheese perspective. Cause that's a nerd. That's a huge blue team story that we didn't get to explore anything outside of the books.
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great point. Speaking of the books, TruMando, with a $5 dono, thank you so much, TruMando, said, I'm reading the a Halo Shadow of Reach and it's great. It takes place in between five and infinite. Do you think the rebrand means more books soon? I think We've been getting lots of books. We've we're already getting lots of books, yeah. And a lot of those books have been expanding on the banished and all that, so I don't know if they're going to drop all that stuff, but They should probably drop all that stuff. The ban, the ban, the ban is just at the covenant 2.0, but they're a cool faction for what they are. It is always interesting, like Halo. Seems or maybe seemed like it was ripe for multimedia, like you have the Peter Jackson, Noah, but no, no, no, no, no. What's that?
Halo's Media Adaptations
00:50:19
Speaker
What's the guy from district?
00:50:22
Speaker
Oh, Neil Blomkamp. Neil Blomkamp. No Bob Backs like the guy who like fucking co-wrote the life aquatic with Steve Z. Sue and directed Marriage Story. A marriage story where they with Master Chief would be great. Neil Blomkamp, Peter Jackson thing which never happened. ah But then we eventually got the series and the series was whatever. um it's It's interesting when they try to do an adaptation and it kind of flounders and you saw that with like you i mean You saw that with Mario in the early 90s. We've seen that with Prince of Persia, with Warcraft, with the Assassin's Creed. Assassin's Creed is coming back, trying it again, right? um Maybe be ah the Tomb Raider has tried it several times. There's now a Tomb Raider animated series coming up soon.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah, like this week, I think. So, yeah, to me, it's interesting because I'm pretty sure Microsoft is like, because none of their franchises have ever hit big, I guess, Fallout has now, if that is a Microsoft franchise. That would probably be the first one, yeah. But, you know, I think everyone's seeing that Mario movie, even the Uncharted movie made a lot of money. The Last of Us got a shit ton of awards. Fallout is obviously going to be a big show that's going to go on for a long time. um i think I think everyone's viewing their properties as something, oh, we can we can get a piece of that. Sony's trying to look at that and be like, oh, we got this God of War thing and a Horizon thing, and then a couple of our things are going to be in that. Amazon series later this year, including Concord, which is what's, go what are we doing? That's like when like an actor dies at a year later, you're like Ray Liotta is in this movie. Like he died a year ago. see This movie. I mean, I think, I think.
00:52:05
Speaker
Like we've we've talked about this before, but like Last of Us did it perfectly. It's adapting exactly the games, but adding in specific extra story like they did with ah Nick Offerman's character. No. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see how that happens in Last of Us 2, because they've been talking about changes, but part two, because they've been saying there's going to be changes. You know what we need to do for Last of Us 2? I don't care who gets elected president.
00:52:35
Speaker
Whoever their secret service is, they need to give them to Caitlyn Deaver, who's playing Abby in The Last of Us 2. That girl, A, a fucking treasure. Every movie she's been in, since she was a fucking kid and justified in Short Term 12, she's been incredible. She's a book smart. She's like so good. She's such a good actor. And she's playing Abby. Give her fucking snipers following her around that if any of these goddamn mouth breathers say anything mean to her, just take them out.
00:53:03
Speaker
a st about I feel so bad for this girl. I feel so bad for this girl. All she wants to do is act. And then fallout. I wonder if she knows what she's getting into. Follow. Follow. Did the adaptation correctly by basically just using the world as the base and in crafting its own story within that world. Halo. Halo's going to do it again. All of the fucking books.
00:53:30
Speaker
well I don't know, you just you described two successful adaptations that followed, like, complete opposite lines of no philosophy, right? Like, Last of Us had a story, they adapted that story. And like, that that is the strongest selling point of the Last of Us in my opinion. Like, the gameplay is not what the Last of Us they' selling what these very copie as it is We know this. Right, exactly.
00:53:52
Speaker
And Fallout is a big open world with just tons of potential four stories. Like that's the crux of that that game is you get tons of little super interesting stories all over the place. And the main through line is kind of in the background. Same thing with kind of all the Bethesda games, honestly. So like that absolutely works as an episodic TV series. Like Halo is somewhere in the middle. Halo has an OK story, but tons and tons of super engaging gameplay. And that's what holds people is the engaging gameplay and like the cool backdrop. And to losing the gameplay entirely as a, you know, you know, watched medium adaptation. You got to fill in way too like so many more blanks than what's out there and like no one's going to be happy because like it's not going to be the thing that they remembered from them being the center of the story. No, they took the silver, the silver timeline is just blue team bastardized into their own bullshit.
00:54:48
Speaker
Like, literally, they took they took all the good parts and ruined it. Then then put all the other. Yeah, that's all I did, actually. but I mean, I mean, you're you're probably right. if If the books were good.
00:55:01
Speaker
They just adapt the books because like you're turning the book and it's interesting stories into ah a visual medium rather than the gameplay that makes up the video games as the as orbiting peanut. It's not a it's not a cure all that you still to have good writers and everything to adapt them because you can't one to one it. But like I don't this the whole silver timeline thing they did is they just took elements from the stories that already existed and then tried to do their own thing with it and just ruined it. They focused them.
00:55:30
Speaker
no I made it. That's how we fix all movies going forward. I'll so probably buy a season two that comes out on Steelbook just so I can stare at it with contempt. But you know what? I don't think I'm going to get there on your dartboard. Yeah, they I have like two shelves. I have a shelf of like this stuff. I like this stuff. I really hate and Halo season one is over on that shelf. I really hate. I don't think that's a healthy shelf. de You might need to just get rid of that shelf.
00:55:57
Speaker
You probably should probably get rid of that shelf. i that being said of my mind The news today before we move on to what we've been playing. Uh, the news today, you know what? You know what my most anticipated TV show right now is? And I don't know anything about these comics. I need Darren to talk about this. Land turns. You guys know about land turns. The TV series or this is a and an upcoming HBO series that is a green light room. Yeah, I've heard about this coming for a while now. Yeah, it is. ah Well, one of the lead writers is Damon Lindelof, the creator of Lost the Leftovers and Watchmen. And it is going to be there. They're describing it as true detective, where two lanterns have to come to America, they have to come to Earth to solve a fucking crime in the Midwest. And the ah the lanterns are Hal Jordan is being played, who's like the grizzled old like
00:56:48
Speaker
Fucking I'm too old for this shit when I started this earth lantern bullshit. Yeah You played by the dude from Friday Night Lights Uh, like the, the dad, the, the coach from Friday night lights, who's like, I'm, I'm fucking done with this. Uh, and then Jon Stewart, the young like fucking is Aaron Pierre, the lead in rebel Ridge. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh my God. Like Aaron Pierre, instead of being like fucking slow talking Don Johnson about like, we have a problem right now, but him being like, I got a goddamn lantern on my finger. Sounds like the greatest television series of all time. I'm so excited for this. That's all I want.
00:57:27
Speaker
Just make more shows like that. Just make more shows that are nerd things, but then just put them in True Detective. That's all I want. I think that's the secret. Yeah, that's how you make good shows. Before we move on, Fat Cock, thank you so much. Another $10 don't know. I agree with KC, a Halo game without the burden of lore would likely breathe fresh life into the franchise. Also on a side note, KC still has the escapist list on his blue sky.
00:57:54
Speaker
Oh I don't really use blue sky like that, but yeah, but you can I can change it. What are your dad's? I've not even put a single post on blue sky. You're missing out. No, the blu rocking. Are you in a rocking chair? No. He's rocking because you're excited. Do you want to talk about what you've been playing?
00:58:19
Speaker
I'm just talking about metaphor first before we move anything else. I just really don't want to talk about. eliminatating over any Go for it. Okay. I just want it really great. We don't have to spend a lot of time on it because we're going to have a topical punch up, uh, tomorrow that Nick, myself and Yahtzee recorded. We almost went 30 minutes. Jesse did a great job of editing.
00:58:36
Speaker
about our thoughts on Metaphor Refantazio, but it comes
Game Reviews: Metaphor Refantazio and Silent Hill 2
00:58:39
Speaker
out on Friday. That is the game we've been talking about for quite a while. That is the new big Atlas JRPG from the leads of Personas 3, 4, and 5. I have finished it and I can officially say I fucking love this game. It is tied with Final Fantasy Rebirth as my second favorite game of the year right behind an Animal Well. Like it is it is i'm goingnna say we're so goddamn. Yeah, it's been a long year.
00:59:05
Speaker
no it's It's been a long year. ah It is a game that I loved from start to finish. um it it just Yes, it is high fantasy persona, but it it trims away so ah a lot of fat and also focuses on the things persona does really well, which is a really engaging combat system that has a ton of depth to it, a gorgeous sense of style throughout its visuals and throughout its music.
00:59:35
Speaker
and incredible stories, both macro and micro, like the overall story has way more twists and turns than I was expecting, way more than a Persona game, like it had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. But also the smaller stories, every time you hang out with your with your confidants, with your party members, with other characters you meet, they all have these these story arcs that without fail are great. like They're great and they're emotional or they're funny or they're revelatory and they all ah add texture to this world that is this high fantasy world where the the king has been assassinated and to to fill his role, ah his ghost has come down from the sky in this giant planet form and said, there's going to be a democratic election to fill my seat.
01:00:22
Speaker
And you are ah just a fucking kid who's like, well, I'm going to try to avenge the king. I'm going to try to become king. And so everything you're doing is trying to win the hearts and minds of people, which in if you're an American in an election year, like it is really funny to play this game now because it is about like the power of democracy and the power of like winning, winning over people who are different than you and scared through genuine honesty and through like ah pro not only promising them that things will get better, but actually following through um and going against people who might have a serpent's tongue, who speak well, but obviously do not have the best intentions in mind for these people and who might prey on the the weakness and vulnerability and and and sort of scared nature of people. um Just a fucking great game. just I fucking love this game. Like, I genuinely feel like I should try it.
01:01:15
Speaker
And I just, I just feel like I'm just, I'm not going to feel what you feel, but like, I'm, I'm feeling intrigued by that premise. Six hours of talking in the opening.
01:01:26
Speaker
Which you could do in a free demo.
01:01:31
Speaker
The talking is so good though. The talking is like really fucking good. it's just It's just really good. I cannot recommend this game enough um to anyone who likes Persona, who likes JRPGs, or who likes the idea of this like sort of War of the Roses, Game of Thrones, Ian.
01:01:50
Speaker
a very, very topical story about the, the, the, the promise of power and also like the power of art and the power of storytelling and how those weave into, uh, our, our lives just. Mark, could you play fable three?
01:02:10
Speaker
I I did. Because what what you're describing in this sounds like what they were trying to do. Like, yeah is like, is this basically like the idea of able to be realized in like a real way? I've never put those together until this moment.
01:02:25
Speaker
I never put those together. And like, I'm not a crazy fable three. I love fable two like that to me is like, yeah, fable two is a great game for sure. Yeah. But the, the fable three of like, Trey, you like, you know, you're going to become the King. Like, how are you going to put together this kingdom kind of thing? How are you going to win this? Uh, that's a good, that's actually a great comp. I wonder if anyone on the team played fable three, which they're Japanese. so Probably not. Oh, no, not our team. They're tight on the yeah metaphor team. To be honest, the Japanese but probably didn't play an Xbox game. ah But ah yeah, that's that's no, that's a great point. Yeah, great comp. Really like it. I highly recommend.
01:03:04
Speaker
ah And before we move on, Dower Dodger with a $10 dono. Thank you so much, Dower Dodger, since Nick will never finish P5R. Not salty. I propose a funding goal for him to do a play through of that and instead. You know what? Never say never.
01:03:18
Speaker
Maybe we'll get some news in the ah in in the near future about about Nick having to continue his little this little torturous game. Maybe other things will continue. Maybe the little if you like that there' four people screaming over a board game, that doesn't make any sense. Maybe we'll have some more updates on that.
01:03:40
Speaker
Already some of the discord and I'm doing persona five next month, so. Oh, you fucking snitch. There you go. Nick, you've also been playing both of us have been playing some Silent Hill 2. Yes. Is this your first time through Silent Hill 2? My first time through Silent Hill 2. Welcome to the spooky city. How do you feel? I quite like it. I am. I guess I went into it expecting sure what I was expecting, honestly, but. It.
01:04:09
Speaker
its I had always like any time I seen gameplay, it looked like pretty linear. um And it's not that it's not linear, but I should love like the lack of direction in the game and that like the map is just you gotta to got to get a look and read the map and go explore and and investigate things on your own a little bit.
01:04:27
Speaker
um and And having not played the original just because, ah you know, people bug me about that all the time. But like when I grew up, i my games were Halo, Call of Duty, and sports games. I didn't really expand my gaming horizon until I got into games media stuff around 2009. So I think my first Silent Hill game, I did play a Silent Hill game. It was really bad. Silent Hill Downpour.
01:04:50
Speaker
ah Hey. You know what's raining and our fucking truck is coming to town and stuff is not going well and this prison got wet. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I just got to technically, I guess chapter two and I'm in the, uh, the apartment block. And so that's been a, that's been a fun area to explore with first big dungeon. Yeah. Very dungeon. And so.
01:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, i I really enjoy it. It's definitely it's unfortunately got that Unreal Engine stuttering problem on PC ah and there's no cross save. So I was thinking about picking up on PS5 or it's probably smoother, but a couple patches and I'm sure that'll be hammered out pretty quickly. Games gorgeous. Acting is really, really good. Like I was immediately just from that opening cutscene, which I've seen before. I was immediately invested in in the game just from the atmosphere of that cutscene and then walking that path into Silent Hill is just very different from a lot of games today. Maybe a bit of Alan, like two's opening a little bit.
01:05:46
Speaker
Yeah, which, ah you know, Alan Way 2 definitely pulled from Silent Hill 2. Like that was one of the urtexts of it. um Yeah, the acting is i'm I'm playing through it now as well. I'm i'm halfway through the hospital, um which is kind of the second major dungeon. um And that is ah the acting is probably the biggest thing that's really embarrassing me because the game famously its original 2001 PS2, the acting is weird and bad. Its defenders say it is weird and bad on purpose and that lends to the sort of the surreal ah nature of the world.
01:06:25
Speaker
um i'm I don't subscribe to that. I just think it's weird and bad. And as someone who I like David Lynch and a lot of the acting in David Lynch is weird and bad. And so, you know, ah take what I say with a grain of salt. um The remake or the remasters in on the 360 and PS3 and stuff in like 2011 or whatever that was, they cast like Troy Baker and Laura Bailey as these characters. And so the performances were better, but it was still like you're you're putting this acting over the weirdness of the original game. and So never quite ah meshed for me. Whereas this, like the actors and the performances and the staging of the cutscenes are so fucking good. Like they're it's really good. and
01:07:12
Speaker
And i don't I don't know, like so far there's changes. The changes don't like completely change the meaning of the story. It's more of like, oh, we've moved some things around and we've, oh, you think this puzzle is going to be here, but it's over here. And oo we've added another thing here. So it's less a thing you wouldn't notice. Like someone like Nick won't notice these changes because they all feel really natural. Whereas I'm familiar with the game and I really like the changes. Granted, I'm not as like,
01:07:41
Speaker
Silent Hill 2 is not my favorite game of all time, like it is Yahtzee's. So if Yahtzee's upset at the game, he has even admitted, like he understands that, like he is coming from, he is not impartial. Like that is not where he's coming from. And we all have that game, right? That like, yeah if you touch that game, we are going to be so hypercritical. He was like, Oh, the turn of phrase that she said at the beginning was different. I'm just like,
01:08:06
Speaker
okay ne I don't know, i didn't know that no but we all have that game. And so, but yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm really enjoying it. It's good. It's spooky. It's good looking blueber team. I'm sorry. I had made funny view. Oh yeah. You had a lot of trash talk for blueber team. Oh, I mean, everybody did. They hadn't really served done anything like this.
01:08:26
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if they deserved it, but they've just never made a game like this. They've never made a game with a game play in it, actually. No. And not to say like this has a ton of gameplay and it's like definitely got combat in the I would say that the melee combat is very simplistic. But this was a template to follow. Right. Like this game existed and they did it again. Yeah, but they did it again. But Everything they've done has been done really well. like To me, this is as good... I haven't finished it yet. This is as good as the Capcom's Resident Evil 2 remix. Resident Evil 2 and then 4. I'm sure that's what they were going for. That's probably very high price. 100%. I bet this got greenlit when Resident Evil 2 was remade and they were like, ooh, look at how good this is. What if we just do the same over-the-shoulder camera thing that Resident 2 did? And again, a lot of people will be gross that's like,
01:09:19
Speaker
but You're just making it you're homogenizing it into every other third-person game. but um like and to get them up I don't want to say the modern audience because that's a stupid term that everybody's using now, but you got to get modern day gamers to play it. Yeah, no, I completely agree. and um I don't know. I think the game... I think it was really good. and I hope a lot of people play it. um hardcore how hell fans are mad, but hardcore everything is mad. So yeah i mean nobody, nobody that's a purist of an original is going to ever enjoy a remake of this course. I still think, listen, Joe Biden, if you're here, yeah you got only you only got like a month left.
01:10:00
Speaker
Put it put in into law, pass it, just like fucking jam it through ah that. If you're going to remake a game, you need to include a perfect emulation of the original on the remake. Then, you know, I would be. Yeah, that would be a really nice addition. That's what Joe did right before he left office. Like how? That's part of it of all time above George Washington. That's Joe. We did it, Joe. Japan has to follow this edict. Yeah. but like ied like man We really slept on Joe. he He pulled a real cool one over on everybody. but I realize you could still do it. I was also going to be like, Shinzo Abe, you got to do it too. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure he got assassinated by like a copilot years ago. So Shinzo Abe, you do not have to do it because you're dead. ah But ah whoever is leaving Japan right now should probably do that. You're just making a campaign promise from Kamala.
Political and Anime Discussions
01:10:54
Speaker
Do you do it? That would have been all the gamers. Oh no, but what if Trump did it? I got a joke, I got a vote for a troll. He's a liar. I wouldn't believe him. He wouldn't believe him. He'll tell you anything. That's a great point. That's a great point. This is the end so for Kamala to win over the culture warrior were gamers though. But in that yeah that inner inner promises that she'll put a one-to-one remake, remaster, whatever it is, on the remake remaster disc.
01:11:21
Speaker
that is That's it. That's how you win the country. Absolutely that easy. If it were that easy, I think I would want to leave this country. he was very hard but do You know, you could control the weather.
01:11:32
Speaker
oh my god i but see it at Oh my god. We are so cucked. We're so cucked. We're absolutely cooked you but you you were amazing cucked.
01:11:47
Speaker
we're We're also so cucked. You've been watching or playing even? i've i've I've been playing a lot of stuff that I have talked about at length, so I won't bore you with any of that. ah But I have started watching some new ah anime stuff. um Specifically, I started watching Uzumaki, ah which is the Junji Ito manga, which has just recently been adapted by Adult Swim. um Two episodes dropped.
01:12:11
Speaker
And folk like apparently the adaptations for Junji Ito's work have had a lot of tumultuous happenings. And this one in particular has taken like several years to get out the door. um And it's a very beloved manga series, like really creepy. ah um um Does it go by the name Spirals on HBO? I don't remember. Uzumaki or just Spirals? It's Uzumaki. Uzumaki, okay.
01:12:36
Speaker
um And the thing is, I'm not a fan of Junji Ito. I don't read horror stuff, period. But I have a lot of his art burned in my brain because like I see it in like forums and like internet stuff that I i had scroll through. And there are a lot of other fans. And I'm like, that is exceptionally creepy, the art that I'm looking at. And I don't want to go anywhere near the actual story. And he was going to be one of the concept artists on Silent Hills. That would have been crazy. So he was originally going to be a concept artist on that, obviously, before it fell through.
01:13:05
Speaker
right so But a controversy arose with this show because after the first episode aired and like people actually really liked it, they thought it was a good adaptation, ah episode two came out and the animation quality took a nosedive. The difference is night and day between how it looked in the first episode and how things were animated and looked in the second episode. And fans were just very baffled. like What the hell is this? we They felt like the wool had been pulled over their eyes and like a lot of um creators and animators and stuff ah came out and said stuff and deleted stuff. But essentially, they blamed like ah executives. They said like they kind of got screwed over in terms of like what they were told, what they were promised in terms of like funding. And they were faced with a couple of decisions in terms of either not releasing anything or finishing up the work that they did do and then releasing that because like a lot of artists did put time and effort into it. And they went with that option.
01:14:00
Speaker
and All that being said, I think they went with the right call. like If you're gonna go ahead and start this project, yeah, just get it out there. like at the like It's only four episodes, like just get them all out there and let people experience you know this thing in this medium.
01:14:17
Speaker
um It is pretty funny, though, how bad the second episode looks. It is crazy how good the first episode looks yeah and how terrible the second episode looks. And the one who like the one argument I've heard is like this thing is about a weird, discomforting world, and maybe that blends in. And I'm like, no, it's just this bad animation. The first episode was really good animation, and the second episode was very bad animation. Honestly, I was going to say like, maybe they should have maybe stuck it to the executives and just not released it. But then I'm thinking now, now I'm thinking like, no, actually people like love that first episode. And then the blame is on the second. Yeah. Like you like and you can see the difference, right? Like, give us more time for the third and fourth episode or else this is going to happen. I mean, they had a ton of time like this. This has been in the works for like five or six years. So like it's really like one
01:15:14
Speaker
One, ah his name, ah Jason DeMarco, who has done other like, ah anime series I just started watching as well.
01:15:25
Speaker
ah but like of quality. So like it very much, and but we've only heard his side. Like executives usually don't go out and speak on the internet, but he's essentially blaming them for this. So like it does really like put the ball in their court, but like usually they don't care. They're like, we don't give a shit what the audience is thinking. We've, we've hit our bottom lines or whatever. Like we're moving on to the next thing. So that kind of sucks ah so like on ah from one to two. They will.
01:15:50
Speaker
I don't know. i mean my Okay, um outside outside outside of the whole art thing, like i'm I'm probably gonna finish it out because um so far, I don't get what the appeal is of this. And again, I'm not a horror guy. I can appreciate how unsettling the art is. ah like Because again, like I was very affected by some of the images that Eric's putting on screen now by just seeing them completely out of context. I was like, I don't wanna know more.
01:16:16
Speaker
But now that I'm seeing the story play out or at least the beginnings of the story play out, it all kind of seems like nonsense. And like, like it's not intriguing to me and I'm not being pulled into this creepy world. And like there are creepy stories that I have liked that I thought I had great writing like stuff from like um the Midnight Mass guy, for example, whose name again, Mike. flaer Yeah, I keep getting his name. But like, yeah, Mike Flanagan is a great writer who really pulls in a lot of that Stephen King esque or and I've liked a lot of Stephen King adaptations.
01:16:45
Speaker
um as well. ah But like, I'm not really feeling Junji Ito's storytelling. And I i ah maybe that'll change. like Maybe I'll get some of the explanations that make this satisfying. But like, so far, it's like this all feels like a vehicle for his very creepy body horror centric art. And it's like, that is amazing. Yes, the body horror imagery. But like,
01:17:09
Speaker
the threads piecing it together are stupid as far as I as far as i can tell right now. You just might be a guy who who works on the page and doesn't work in animated form because I've watched a lot of his animated series and like none of it. Yeah. Yeah. and and And his, his manga is, his comics is animated like or his, his, you know, physical things are, are like really creepy. Like it was a mock. He's really fucking creepy. And I just don't even, I really like,
01:17:36
Speaker
the animation of the first episode, didn't hit me as hard as the comic did as the manga did. So you did read the manga before- I did, yeah, I read the manga at like college, yeah. and that was a And that was affecting to you, like the yes storytelling of it? Yes, very formative. Okay. Whereas I thought the first episode I was like, this is pretty good. Second episode I was like, this is really bad. What's going on here? Have you watched Den to Den?
01:17:59
Speaker
This is just speaking of a different anime. I'm going to, because that, oh my god, the trailers for that looks so gorgeous. That is out of this. I'm going to start that soon. That is out of this one. I didn't know. How do you put that much animation into something? They did so much animation. That looks like a movie. Yeah. And it's a series. It's a weekly series based on a manga. It's on Netflix, Debian Weekly. The first episode is out. It is probably going to be like the, it's going to be this season's big. It's going to be the season's Chainsaw Man or anything like that.
01:18:28
Speaker
It is definitely, George Lucas, close your ears. It is definitely, like, horned up in a way you need to, like, be willing to, like, ah lean into, like, manga, anime, horned up. That's funny. I did not get that impression at all from the trailers. Is anyone here, like, watching me watch this? No, thank you for letting me know that, because I was totally into the watches in my living room.
01:18:52
Speaker
But it is it is about these two high school kids. There's a guy who is obsessed with UFOs and the idea of aliens, and a girl who does not give a shit about UFOs thinks they're fake, but who is obsessed with ghosts and the paranormal. And the UFO guy does not give a shit about ghosts.
01:19:11
Speaker
And so it's like these two separate things. It turns out both of them are real. Like ghosts and aliens both exist. And and ah the first episode is, ah yeah, it is it's it is great. It is great. Do not watch it around your priest. That's that's mine that's my quick review of Den to Den.
01:19:28
Speaker
nice Oh, yeah. Oh, look at that image. Wow. past him him Yeah, it's the alien. He's got a weird, pe he's got, it he calls his banana. It's fine. It's fine. It's his banana. It's fine. It's fine. We're never going to have this show sponsored ever.
01:19:43
Speaker
Thank you. Show that one. That's a spooky ghost. That's great. ah what What else? what are You guys watching, eating anything else? ah Yeah, real quick. I'll just say i've I've started Ninja Kamui, which I was told to start like a really, really long time ago. ah Another Adult Swim anime joint. um Beautiful, gorgeous animation and like fight choreography. um Really basic story like not not in a bad way, but like think John Wick right like it's very very Simple premise a guy who apparently has lived, you know a certain kind of life beforehand ah Gets his his retirement interrupted and now it basically has to come out of retirement and kill a bunch of people um so like nothing you haven't seen before but it is a it is gorgeously animated. Like, there's some sick ass fight scenes, tons and tons of like, if you're into that sort of thing, like bloody gore and decapitation and whatnot. So if that's your bag, definitely check this out. Like I'm having a good time watching so far, but it's it's really popcorn. Like it's not hitting me that deep. And maybe
Star Wars Outlaws Game Review
01:20:49
Speaker
it'll have like some some conspiracy stuff or some metaphors down the road. But if it doesn't, I think I'll be fine. Like I feel like I have need to kind of turn your brain off action thing. oh yeah ah And this this is fitting that bill.
01:21:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Having a good time with it. Cool. That's all from me. Nick, what about you? Anything else? ah a Well, i'll I won't be on the ah rewind on Tuesday because I could avoid it, but I'll be traveling anyway. But I did finish up Rings of Power season two. I literally invite you said, I'll be on if there's room. And I said, yes, there is room because Jack's not there. We can have four people. I miss that. My apologies for throwing you under the bus.
01:21:29
Speaker
But now I'm pulling you out because now I'm going to talk about it anyway, because I won't be there. because i'll be travel Talk about it on Tuesday. I won't be here. I'll be traveling. Oh, what the fuck are you mad at that? I didn't know I was going to be traveling when I sent that message. What is happening? You said I'll be on the show if there's room and I said, great, Jack's not going to be there. We could have you as the fourth. But I didn't know I was going to be traveling yet anyway. It's another spiral. This is Junji Ito's. I still haven't watched literally any of the season Lord of the Rings, so I'm binging that this weekend. Oh, I'm out of town. I'm binging at some point.
01:22:07
Speaker
I'll watch it all before Tuesday. Then I enjoyed season two quite a bit, actually. great i've I've heard good things. Yeah, I there there's I I don't really know the lore of the similarities or whatever it's called. mull I don't know how you can pronounce it. Yes, whatever. Probably not that deeper, deeper Lord of the Rings lore. I don't know. As a TV show, I had a good time with it.
01:22:28
Speaker
and much better time than I did the first season. Also, the there's a reveal. You already know the reveal. The matter is stupid. I don't care. I'm just moving on from the reveal. It's fine. You'll talk about it on Tuesday and you're all going to say it's stupid. It's fine. If I assume I watch it by Tuesday, I realize I got to watch that tonight. Probably I got to start. Oh, shit. It's only seven episodes, right? Eight. Yeah. And today's only Wednesday.
01:22:57
Speaker
It's eight episodes. Yeah. But I didn't. I didn't play another. Yeah. It's eight episodes. I didn't know the big franchise thing, though. I played and beat Star Wars Outlaws over the past week. um Did you beat it, Marty? No, I have a media. I don't know. But if I really fantastic, I would find Zelda is I.
01:23:17
Speaker
That's a weird one, man. I like I liked. I liked it. Didn't love it. The camp, the story didn't really do a whole lot for me because like this, it's it's weird. I talked about it in my unpacked video because like, this game's really hard to talk about because I liked it and that it I finished it in 12 hours. I finished the main campaign in 12 hours. It was a decent campaign and had some fun missions. Really good environment art, but the gameplay,
01:23:51
Speaker
which is obviously the most important part, and everybody's gonna roast me for that, is really shallow, really shallow. And I put out a ah tweet the other day that it says like, this game probably should have just dropped all the open world stuff and just made a uncharted S Star Wars adventure and stuck with it. Because that's when the game is at its best moments when you are climbing up an old High Republic cruiser and solving puzzles and getting into combat and then getting into a high octane moment and then moving on.
01:24:21
Speaker
That's what the game should have stuck with because all the open world stuff is just it's pretty. It's fun to be in that in Star Wars and I get the appeal as a Star Wars fan of like, oh, this is like I get to live on Tatooine for a day. But I just never found a good reason to really explore or do anything. There's the side missions are you're immediately given them like there's a few you can find, but they're all just kind of fetch quests. The main side missions you get are from the the, like the, what do they call that?
01:24:55
Speaker
syndicates. Yeah. sort of talk about that Yeah. They get the they get the side quests from the sit in the syndicates and those are like actually good fleshed out side quests like they have their they have cut scenes, they have big action moments and all that. So like don't skip them if you do play the game because they are worth doing. But the rest of it is like go pick up the stuff for an ability unlock. And I went through the whole game without mocking like 90 percent of the abilities because you just don't need them. And I even up the difficulty because it's not necessary.
01:25:24
Speaker
Hmm. Yes. Well, because like it was too easy on normal. Like if you played any third person shooter, definitely up upgrade the difficulty because it's it's too easy. I think it's a very nice amount of easy. But there's there's just not like I don't know. There's nothing really going on in the open world. There's a few times when like a stormtroopers like land to ah get some like gear or whatever and you can go stop them from getting the gear but it's like it happens same way every time. It's in different locations and like not being able to interact with like the civilians or like even like just just have fun with the sandbox of like having the GTA wanted system in there is really it hardly ever affected me.
01:26:14
Speaker
And so it's a game that like, I didn't, I didn't mind it. It's a good, it's a fun 12 hour experience, but it's not a game that I would ever rush out to play again. Since joe Biden is listening, but pass through, you know, in, in your final few months, pass through, uh, all remakes need to have perfect emulation of the original. You know what? What about two years with no open world games?
01:26:39
Speaker
We'll just see what happens. Let's just see what happens. Take a breather. Let's just see what happens. This starts after Monster Hunter Wilds releases though, right? We all get one. Everyone gets one. Everyone gets one. We're like, okay, you can put that out. Yeah, you can put this all the game out. That's fine.
01:26:59
Speaker
Yeah, so we all get one. um Yeah,
Witchfire and Visions of Mana Discussions
01:27:02
Speaker
i yeah. i like You know, if I had to give it a risk review score, I guess it'd be like a six out of 10 because there's there's moments where I really enjoyed it and then.
01:27:11
Speaker
But the best part of the game is like the last mission. It's like the most uncharted s type mission that you get out of the game. But a very abruptly ends and there's like interesting story twists and plot, plot and all that. It's like right when the plot of the story actually gets interesting, the game ends and it's it's it's pretty easy. One or more. It did, but.
01:27:34
Speaker
Yeah. no that's that That sounds annoying. I ba that i wasn't trying to like defend. I haven't gotten that far yet, but um I do still want to check it out. I haven't played it at all yet. I think it's worth checking out and I do hope it is the foundation for a sequel that takes what was good about it, trips away what wasn't, it improves upon things like this. This could be like a sick ass. We say that all about a lot of games, but this like could be an accessory to Uncharted 2 sort of like, damn, took a heartbeat and made a hot song. because thats how That's how games have traditionally functioned, right? they have The second timeout is
01:28:12
Speaker
is the formula. Yeah, you built the foundation and then you built upon it for the second time. It's ah so only yeah only sold a million copies. So unless it sees a second wave of sales, I don't think we're getting a sequel to this one. You know what's cooler than a million? A billion. Justin Kimberly, Social Network. um The last thing I want to ah but if he's not go fearee if you want to go first talk about your game, I just want to talk about book and leave.
01:28:38
Speaker
let's Talk about your game. You're reading a book. Yeah, I've read a book for you. Talked about it. I'm already talks about the fire. Yeah. The other game I've been playing is Witchfire, which Casey, you you did that one for. and just Yeah, before it was hit one point. Oh, I played for this item's not one point. Oh, yeah. Won't be a one point out until the end of next year. No, just came to Steam, which is why I finally played it. And they did in a big, a big content update, but um and I remember loading it up before and I didn't like it at all. And it was like right around the time they launched it in Early Access. now that ah Now that it's come a long way and they've added a lot of content, I actually really love it. It's basically Destiny meets Dark Souls. And I kind of love that. Don't say that. That's what a gross. It's not Destiny meets Dark Souls. yeah It has the gunplay of Destiny with the gameplay loop of Dark Souls.
01:29:31
Speaker
like I didn't play this game, but that sounds like bullshit to me. you not it's What but but Dark Souls is, because this is an extraction shooter, right? Or did that change? It's still...
01:29:46
Speaker
It's an extraction shooter, but like you are gaining souls to level up. Basically, you're unlocking weapons and finding gear experience. Yeah, there's like tough as nails bosses later on and stuff like that. it It's not like as hard as Dark Souls or anything. I'm not saying that it just basically has if you like that loop of like learning a map where to go to find.
01:30:09
Speaker
items, get to the combat arenas, get to the bosses, find some puzzles and all that. And then make sure you get back to the bonfire or the waygate that they use in the game to make sure you can get back and level up your character and keep coming back stronger. Like it has it has persistent progression, which is good. It's not just ah ah another roguelite like extraction. We lose everything. um If you like that gameplay loop, you would actually probably really dig this.
01:30:37
Speaker
The first map is really simple, um but now that I'm on the second map, there's a lot more going on in it, and the maps as they go keep getting more and more complex. Is there patches? I don't know. there patches? Is there patches? There's only one man I want to care about. Is there patches? like If I get kicked in the butt off of a cliff, I'll let you know. Hell yeah. I feel like it wouldn't feel the same if it was in first person.
01:31:05
Speaker
It might be funny. Yeah, you'd be like, who moved me? Did I just fall? Because I'm bad at judging where the ground is? This was by the astronauts, right? This is the, yeah, this is the Bulletstorm Gears of War Judgment, Vanishing of Ethan Carter folks. Really talented Polish studio, so. Yeah, they kind of also know the game is called Witchfire. It just popped up on screen for a while. Witchfire. Yeah, not a great name for a game. Also been in Early Access for a long time, but I've heard from several people in before you brought this up that it's actually coming along very well. Yeah, it has come a long way since I last played it. I really enjoyed it. The last game I played that I just want to talk about for 10 seconds. Visions of mana. Visions of mana.
01:31:47
Speaker
Why are you playing visions? of You've never played Chrono Trigger. Fucking stop playing Visions of Mana and play Chrono Trigger. what does role with you what What is wrong with with you? Visions of Mana connected to Chrono Trigger? No, it's just... Fucking... What is... What you doing are you doing? you doing? I just floated it up and I didn't know what to do with it. And I was like, it's kind of... You guys ask you for months. For like a month. The combat, but it's like real time combat. It's kind of fun.
01:32:16
Speaker
The world's
Blizzard's History and Impact
01:32:17
Speaker
really pretty too. That's a good point. No time combat over. They go into a cutscene like every two seconds and address fucking nuts. They took all the trappings of a JRPG that has all the text and put it in a third person action game. It's a JRPG. It's just a monogame. It's just a JRPG. They tricked you. Yeah. The monogames were always real time combat. Like even back on my game, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was a screenings game.
01:32:45
Speaker
Just play Chrono Trigger. What is wrong with you? I'm sorry. i that's really like I shouldn't do that. I have tons of blind spots, but what? I'm waiting for the Silent Hill 2 remake of Chrono Trigger. Honestly, that's probably going to come next year. Square is desperate. Square is desperate, so they're probably going to be like, we've got to do this again in 2D HD. um There you go. Yeah, I didn't play Visions of the Month.
01:33:08
Speaker
I played the demo and it didn't do anything for me. I'm not a crazy Mana guy. Secret of Mana doesn't do anything for me. I like Legends of Mana, which is a PS1 game that looks like a storybook coming to life. But yeah, the Mana games, I like that there's like a cool big tree. I like a world where there's a big tree that's important. Yeah, I love the art of those games. That's what dragged me in. And I never finished anyone I ever started, but I did try a couple of the Game Boy ones. Yeah. There are more games where it's like there's a big tree tree and we need to do something to save this tree.
01:33:35
Speaker
It's a weird story plot. We're like, yeah. The dude's like dating the girl and she's like, I got selected to go be sacrificed to the tree. And he's like, I love that. That's a great idea to my girlfriend.
01:33:48
Speaker
10 is all about. We got to go fucking hell. The only reasonable guy, the reasonable guy in the game is introduced at the front. He's like, no, I'm not going to let my girlfriend get killed by the tree. And then she turns on the stone rip. showslar that'sri and reasonable Yeah. Then the main character is like, yeah, no, I'm just going to throw my girlfriend at this tree. I'll take you all the way there. See, it's better than stone, ain't it?
01:34:13
Speaker
I don't, I don't know. and We saw what happens when you don't listen to the big tree. It's bad. You're just a stone person either way. buts ah Last thing I'm going to talk about, a book. Several months ago, I got a copy of Play Nice. This is Jason Schreier's book that just came out this week on the rise and fall of Blizzard Entertainment. This was actually, this was my this is my ah beach side reading when I was in Punta Cana this summer. I jammed through this book in like three sittings. ah an Excellent read. And this is coming from someone, I am not a Blizzard.
01:34:50
Speaker
person, ah clearly. yes Like, I've never been a Starcraft, a Warcraft. I've never been an RTS person. I've never been in a WoW. ah But Jason Schreier, the former Kotaku writer, now Bloomberg writer, just a video game journalist, wrote this entire book about the story of the creation of Blizzard, it's its rise to becoming one of the biggest studios on the planet with with Starcraft and Warcraft, a world of world of Warcraft, especially.
01:35:17
Speaker
um how it ended up ah getting under the thumb of Bobby Kotick, eventually its journey into getting acquired by Phil Spencer and and Xbox, ah but also incredible inside stories of, you know, there's parts about the toxic work culture there, but there's also parts about the experiments they tried to do that never got off the ground. Like, I learned so much about games that never existed a year. Like, what happened to Starcraft Ghost? What happened to several other crazy projects that they had into work. Some things that had to do with Diablo and Warcraft and Starcraft. some Some things that tried to be completely new. IPs, including their take on an MMO superhero Animal Crossing that ended up becoming Overwatch. Like, hu it is fascinating. Like this book is absolutely fascinating. If you like Blizzard,
01:36:08
Speaker
Or if you just like video game history, like this is such a fun light read through that history. Learned a ton. ah Just it was great. and Like I said, I'm not even a Blizzard guy. And I thought this was a great book. So I recommend it. I threw the Amazon
Upcoming Content and Channel Updates
01:36:21
Speaker
link in there. Buy it Buy it at Waiting a home for me.
01:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, I really, I really, really enjoyed it. So, um, I would, I would love more books like this, especially like, give me a Primsoft one like this. I mean, I mean, it's gonna be hard to get a Japanese one because it's hard to... Well, they won't even... need yeah learned everything' worse Yeah, those like folks are are less, uh, less apt to do sort of interviews afterwards. Whereas a lot of these people were... able to go on record or offer any Daniel Joy from no clip has been turning into from software for years to do doc and they're like yeah we don't we just don't do that stuff its tough it sucks because like there's there's the history of the studio is gotta to be fucking awesome but yeah great story still um yeah I'd recommend that so great read uh check it out if you're interested in that
01:37:15
Speaker
We did it. Nice. At the end of the show, I only yelled at Nick once or twice. I regret one of them. The second one I do not regret. The Visions of Mana won. I do not regret yelling at you. Like, that's weird. What are you doing? I want to go back to that for a second. Casey asked and you didn't really answer. What does Chrono Trigger have to do with Visions of Mana? Yeah. You are nothing other than they're both Square games, but it's mostly Square made literally the greatest JRPG ever made and then is now making games that are fine. But it's just if you're going to spend your time making and playing their fine things, like go back and just go back in there. All right. Go back and give yourself 15 hours to play the greatest game of all time. Why did you why do you yell? I played Chained Echoes or Sea of Stars before Chrono Trigger.
01:38:06
Speaker
Cause those are like, they're trying something. Yeah, I shouldn't have got mad. Oh no, I'm fine. I'm fine that I got mad at you. Whatever. i don't regret but yeah that That does it for us on ah this week's fire link. Casey gone what should folks check out.
01:38:26
Speaker
ah Yeah, as usual, you can find me all over the internet, including Blue Sky with an updated ah bio, because there was a lot of old stuff on there I realized. At Sigma Gears 9, this weekend, there will not be a wedding stream, because my fiance is participating in a friend's wedding or something. um But um Nick and I will be doing, I believe, ah a spooky stream?
01:38:54
Speaker
Right? We're doing the sponsor stream. stream on Friday. V-O-I-N for anybody. Yeah. So catch us for that. And then I'll probably just do like a solo thing on my own channel, uh, afterwards. So, uh, it will be a long stream session for me. Uh, Marty and I will be starting Metroid Prime tomorrow. So excited for that. Cause I have not, like I play like maybe the first three but So hours of Metro Prime and then never touched it from that point forward. Whatever you think you should do to prepare for scanning. Prepare for scanning. Whatever in the next 24 hours, however you think you should mentally prepare for scanning. Prepare for scanning. It can be Batman, Arkham Asylum all over again.
01:39:34
Speaker
and but but That's great. I'm excited outside of that. We've got some fun original shorts content coming soon. So be on the lookout for that on the main channel here. And I think Nick sent out a message already in the discord, but we are converting our old escapist live stream channel into our shorts.
01:39:55
Speaker
and clip ah clips channel. So you're probably already subscribed to that, but if not head on over to that, uh, what like that's now called second, when you said the scapists second one, I said escapists. I'm sorry. Escapists. We don't work anymore. It's almost been a year. I worked for escapists for several more years that I've worked here. Okay. It's very hard. It's going to take some time every once in a while.
01:40:21
Speaker
It's going to take some time. That's our history, right? We can't be ashamed of our history. Exactly. Exactly. Um, but yeah, check that out. Uh, we're, we're working on some really fun stuff that's going to be popping up here, there, everywhere. Uh, I think that's all I have on hand. Make sure you're watching adventures, not remasters because they are great.
01:40:38
Speaker
and So I got, hell yeah. What about you, Nick? You can watch my unpacked episode that came out this week. I was really happy with how that one turned out on breaking down all the stuff that's going on with Ubisoft. And my next one will be on breaking down all the stuff that's going on with Halo. Kind of, if you liked our discussion earlier on Halo today, I'll be doing a much more in-depth dive on that. And then an Alarmo one afterwards, breaking down the Alarmo. No, the next one I have to do after that is so Star Citizen.
01:41:06
Speaker
I was waiting for citizen con to happen. So several, several regulars have D on me. Yeah. Nick POG was a well fucking backer 35 years ago. Like we, we got some, we got some inside sources on this. Yeah. So I'll be a halo and then, and then the big star citizen episode, which maybe I and might spend a little bit more extra time on to make sure I get it right. yeah But other than that, uh, Jim eight and Marty will be starting resident evil seven tomorrow.
01:41:35
Speaker
as well. And then, uh, yeah, I'll be traveling back to Kansas city, uh, tomorrow. So, uh, Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. we may be doing a dead by daylight game night stream this weekend. So stay tuned for that one as well.
01:42:10
Speaker
yeah got vo on the mine um Great. Uh, and then before, before my stuff, Tower Dodger with a five dollar demo, thank you so much, Tower Dodger. Hooray for spooky streams and prime time. We got a lot of spooky streams planned for you. You're going to get, trust me, this is going to be up the wazoo. By the end of the month, you can be like, please stop it. and Bring us back. Bring back nice things.
01:42:33
Speaker
This has been, this has been too scary. Uh, but yeah, we got both, uh, uh, resi seven and Metroid prime tomorrow. Dead heads will be on Friday at noon. Uh, I'm should have a new three MR or a fucking shit. What are these things called? Bite size bite size. Talk about me. I get so many more than three of ours than Bite Size that Eric is editing. And then we also have a couple of topical punches in the yeah chamber. We'll have a Metaphor Re-Fantasia one up tomorrow, and then we should have an undisputed one that Casey, myself, and Jesse Galina recorded early today, probably up this weekend. Hell yeah. And then Quintupale with a $2 donut, I think he's so much Quintuple. Safe travels back, Nick. Great Nebraska for five weeks.
01:43:22
Speaker
Time to go home. Good time. We love Nebraska here. Also, if anyone is in the path of a Hurricane Milton, please say be safe. Oh, my God. Be safe. Our Florida pals, our Southeast pals. That shit's scary, especially coming right off the heat of helena like fucking weather. We got to do something. We got to do something about this climate. is weather i know We to fix this climate. We got to fix this climate. That'll be number three for Joe. It'll be fixed.
01:43:50
Speaker
fix the remakes. Already forgot what number two was, but number three is fix the weather. What was number two? What number two? What was number two? What was Joe doing? maybe a new self to take number two Yeah. Also just, just stay, stay regular. No no more open worlds.
01:44:07
Speaker
No more open worlds, that was it. No more open worlds. Re-1 for every person. Original game, we're remixed, and fix the weather. Perfect. So for Casey, for Nick, and for Eric, this was Marty. Thank you all so much for joining us for Firelink up episode number 40. Great to see you all, and we'll see you back here tomorrow for Rezzy and Semiramulamatic, and ooh, is that tomorrow? I just said that. Yes, Semiramulamatic tomorrow. Rezzy, Semiramulamatic, and Metroid. Hi, everyone. And Metaphors, topical punch. Bye everyone. Bye everyone.