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World-Class Tumbler Ashley Matern on Triumph and the Power of Not Giving Up
76 Plays23 days ago
Ashley Matern may not be a household name—yet—but her story is one of the most powerful we’ve ever shared on the Especially for Athletes podcast.
A world-class tumbler, Ashley has faced the highest highs and the lowest lows in one of the most demanding sports in the world. After a devastating leg injury in 2023—featuring a cracked tibia and torn ligaments—most assumed her career was over. But Ashley knew she wasn’t done.
This episode dives deep into her comeback story: from missing World Championship teams since 2019… to becoming the 2024 U.S. Tumbling Champion and earning her place back on the world stage. Her message to young athletes is clear and unforgettable:
“Don’t close the door on yourself. If there’s still gas in the tank, make someone else close the door—you don’t shut it on yourself.”
Highlight Moment:
“The joy after the absolute antithesis of joy.” – a commentator, watching Ashley celebrate with her coach after her winning run.
Listen to learn:
• How Ashley handled years of coming up short—and kept going
• What it takes to return from a career-threatening injury
• The mindset of an elite athlete when the world doubts them
• Why persistence might lead to your best performance yet Watch, share, and get inspired at e4a.org
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Credits: Hosted by Shad Martin Produced by Shad Martin and IMAGINATE STUDIO
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Every day, athletes push themselves in the unseen hours. They sweat, sacrifice, and prepare to compete, sometimes against each other, sometimes against their own limits. But every year, something remarkable happens.
00:00:13
Speaker
For a few weeks, these fierce competitors come together for a different kind of challenge, a challenge bigger than any scoreboard. They compete against hunger. Last year, your efforts did something extraordinary.
00:00:26
Speaker
You kept a small school in the Philippines open significantly longer than it could have stayed open. and Without your help, it wouldn't have been possible. You changed lives. This year, we're bringing our efforts back home to an incredible organization called Tabitha's Way. They feed families across the Wasatch Front every day.
00:00:46
Speaker
Families who need help now more than ever. And this Christmas, we want to help them feed 100 families. Just $40 provides one full Christmas meal, a meal many families simply wouldn't have without help. Athletes, teams, coaches, and partners of E4A, we're asking you to join with us again and use your sport light to feed the hungry. Our goal is to raise $4,000, and every single penny you give goes directly to Tabitha's Way.
00:01:15
Speaker
In fact, we love saying 100% plus goes to them because we donate right alongside you. And here's another great part. On December 19th, we're gathering to deliver meals to families who can't pick them up themselves.
00:01:30
Speaker
It's one of the most meaningful experiences of the year. So yes, keep competing on the field, on the court, in the pool. But this Christmas, join us, stand with us, compete against hunger. Scan the QR code or click the link in our stories to donate.
00:01:46
Speaker
Merry Christmas, eyes up, do the work. Welcome to the Especially for Athletes podcast, where we explore essential principles that empower athletes to learn life's most valuable lessons through sports.
00:02:05
Speaker
right. Hello, everybody. Thank you for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. We've got a special guest today with us, Ashley Mayturn. I say that right, Ashley? Yeah, that was right. I screwed it up about five times as we were coming in to start the show. And then obviously, Shad and and I'm Dustin. Ashley, I say special guest because it's not very often that you get to have somebody who's on a world team of anything. um I don't care what the sport is, when you put world next to it or when you put somebody who's representing our country in competitions, that's a special guest. And that's what we have today with Ashley. So Ashley, thank you for joining us.
00:02:42
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Well, we're going to dive into some, a lot of things, but first I want you to explain to us, because I asked you this coming in, i didn't quite understand it.
00:02:53
Speaker
um The world that you're in looks like gymnastics. If you're watching it online, following you on social media and things, I just assumed all these years following you that it was just gymnastics.
00:03:05
Speaker
And it's, it is, but it's different. Will you explain what you do and how that compares to gymnastics? And then tell us a little bit about your successes and, and you know, why it is that, uh, you're so freaking awesome. And we have you our podcast.
00:03:20
Speaker
Okay. Well, thank you ah First thing, gymnastics is what you see in the Olympics. You see the bars, you see the beam, floor, vault. And that's what I initially started with. But I eventually made the change trampoline and tumbling. That's the official name of my sport. And it's just like a branch off of regular gymnastics. So there's actually multiple kinds of gymnastics that people aren't as familiar with. So there's acro, rhythmic, and I do tramp and tumbling. And so we have three events. We have tumbling, double mini, and trampoline.
00:03:58
Speaker
And I specialize on tumbling, which is pretty similar to regular gymnastics, the floor exercise, but I'm not doing all the dancing and leaping. It's just the flips. So that's the difference between artistic gymnastics and trampoline and tumbling. And Unfortunately, tramp and tumbling or tumbling is not in the Olympics, but hopefully one day it will be.
00:04:23
Speaker
okay And then like I said, let' in real quick. Yes. Yeah. The mini one, like trampoline makes sense to me. Tumbling makes sense to me. What was the other one? So it's called double mini and it's like a trampoline vault.
00:04:37
Speaker
You, it's a teeny tiny trampoline. It's angled like this and you run, jump on, do a flip onto the double mini, and then do a flip off and land on the ground. It's crazy.
00:04:49
Speaker
I used to do it, but I it. it I decided to focus on tumbling because it was scary. Awesome. Okay. Sorry about that. i just I could picture the other two, but I was sitting there.
00:04:59
Speaker
Double mini did not mean anything to me. but Yeah. So that's cool. I knew what it was, Ashley. Anybody that really gets it knows what double mini means. Yeah, yeah. I know. I know.
00:05:12
Speaker
I had no clue either. So thanks for asking. yeah i said as It was more flipping. and And as soon as one flip happens, I i check out. Yeah. I'm not kidding you, Ashley. Some of the stuff you've done, i kind of have to look away because I have a little bit of a phobia of being upside down in here and not knowing where I'm going to land.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah. you're When you go down that, I don't know, what do it's what do you call it? it's not You can call it the track. Yeah, the track. It's like you're going to go off like you would in the vault. Like at the end of it, you're going to hit the trampoline and go off the vault, except you're doing everything that they would do after they hit the vault in the air the whole way down.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Coming out of flips into flips into more flips and then cartwheels into other. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's wild. i I don't know how you do it. Have any idea where you're at when you land? Like, are you dizzy when you land? Yeah.
00:06:08
Speaker
No, I will say now that I'm older, if I take a long break, like typically after competitions, we'll take a week or two off just to recover, let our body recover. And when I go back, I'm seeing stars. I'm dizzy. It didn't affect me as a kid, but now that I'm older, it definitely affects me.
00:06:24
Speaker
Really? Yeah. What was that thing that Simone Biles had in the Olympics when she was in the air and had a hard time coming out of it? Did you ever dealt with that or do they and in your sport?
00:06:36
Speaker
So Simone had what we call the twisties, which I personally have never really dealt with the twisties specifically. I think mental blocks are super, super common in gymnastics and tumbling.
00:06:51
Speaker
i had a teammate who was dealing with the twisties and it is weird. It's just like your body and your brain kind of disconnect. And it's like your body's doing its own thing when your brain's telling it to do something else.
00:07:04
Speaker
And it's just scary because it feels like you have no control over your body. Yeah. But yeah, I've never dealt with it, luckily. Jeez, that's that's that's crazy stuff. Well, tell us a little bit about some of your successes, your your your rise to where you're at.
00:07:21
Speaker
Okay. um Well, I went elite. So elite is the highest level you can be. um You go from junior elite up to senior elite. I went junior elite when I was...
00:07:34
Speaker
Well, I went elite when I was 13 and competed nationally for a couple of years. um And then I went senior elite when I was 17. And made the Worlds Team, Worlds Team,
00:07:53
Speaker
twenty nineteen worlds team And then 2021 JV Worlds team. And then i didn't make a Worlds team until this year, 2025. And I was back like on the varsity team, I guess. um I won nationals this year, which was a huge accomplishment for me.
00:08:13
Speaker
um I've only won nationals one time before and I was a lower level and I was like 13. So it was exciting to have that accomplishment as an adult.
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah. Jeez, nationals. and So what's world team? like that's what Explain to us what that means. Because like I said in the intro, anytime there's world in front of anything, that's a select group, I'm assuming.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yes. So they select four girls and four boys per country. And we go and compete. I wish I could remember how many countries we competed against this year. A lot.
00:08:48
Speaker
A lot. I had like 60 girls in my group, which is quite a bit for tumbling. Yeah. Yeah. well So for your, your three other women and you represented the U S worlds.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yes. welcome Okay. And that's what you just came back from in Spain. Yes. Just a couple of weeks ago. Yes. How did, how did, how did you, how did the team do and how did you do?
00:09:14
Speaker
We did good. The team, so they assign our world team after nationals, which is in the summer. And the team that was originally assigned in the summer was not the team we ended up going out with. and We had multiple injuries, so we had some girls who weren't expecting to be pulled up to this world team.
00:09:34
Speaker
But they did great. We qualified into a team final at Worlds, which is where they take our top three highest scores. And we placed fifth. And everybody did really well. Our boys team did really well.
00:09:47
Speaker
They took the silver medal. And then individually for me, it was probably the best competition I've, I would say it was my best performance of my life. I've never hit my routines that well.
00:09:59
Speaker
I feel like when I was younger, I used to struggle with, I could do it in training. And when I would go to compete it, it just... something would switch and I was not able to perform. And I think this is the first time where I competed it as well as I've trained them, like my passes. So I was really happy with this competition.
00:10:18
Speaker
Wow.
00:10:20
Speaker
Crazy. Tell us about what it's like to get started in this field the first time you really at a competition really have to take off and leave the ground. What's that?
00:10:31
Speaker
And how do you get over that mental block? Talk talk to us about mental blocks. Maybe that caught my attention. You said that earlier. Yeah, I didn't really experience a lot of mental mental blocks until coming back from my injury, um where fear was a big thing. Like, i remember the first time I had to do the skill that I had injured myself doing.
00:10:54
Speaker
and It, I mean, it sounds dumb, but you really just have to do it and kind of turn your brain off because one thing I've learned is muscle memory is real and you just have to let your body do it and you just have to turn off your brain sometimes.
00:11:12
Speaker
Um, That's tell us about your injury. And then i I know Shad and I both would like to dive a little bit more into what you just said about and turning your brain off. And because there's a lot to that in in any, not even in sports, I think just in anything traumatic in life, coming back, right. And reengaging in just regular daily routines can be really hard after something tragic, a loss of somebody or or anything. But so what happened? What was your injury and how did it happen?
00:11:41
Speaker
Um, so beginning of 2023, this was my first season back after being married. So I was super excited. I felt really good going into the season.
00:11:53
Speaker
um and it was at our local Utah meet and I had been having a little bit of ankle pain going into it. Um, but I didn't think much of it. I feel like aches and pains are unfortunately kind of normal in my day-to-day life. um But I went into this competition a little sore, but feeling excited for the rest of the season. And in one of my routines, I didn't have enough power and I went to do my end skill and I just landed short.
00:12:23
Speaker
And I knew as soon as I landed that it was not just like a normal ankle crunch, I guess. Like it felt really painful. And what had ended up happening was I chipped my tibia and I tore a couple ligaments in my foot. Initially, when they told me, they thought it was just like a chip in the bone, which they said is easier to come back from than a ligament tear. And then when I did all of my MRIs and x-rays, they saw that there were a couple tears in a couple ligaments. So yeah, that was my injury. It was the beginning of 2023.
00:13:02
Speaker
And then i started rehab and getting back into things and I was still having a lot of pain. And I just had some bone spurs that had developed. So in November of 2023, they went back in and cleaned everything up.
00:13:16
Speaker
But that was my second surgery. So did you ever think about, I mean, you you said you just got married. So obviously this was your husband's fault that you got injured. He cursed me.
00:13:29
Speaker
Did you ever think about after that, being done? Yeah, for sure. I think the main thing that kept me going to the gym was my teammates and my coach because it didn't, they weren't, I didn't ever feel pressured by them. Like you have to make a comeback, but they just made the environment fun and I liked going to see them and So that was a big motivator for me to just get into the gym.
00:13:57
Speaker
And then once I was there, then I was like, okay, let's try this. Let's see how this feels. um But they were like the number one reason that I kept going.
00:14:06
Speaker
That's really cool that you wanted to return because it was fun. Yeah. And it was a fun atmosphere. A lot of sports, especially youth sports right now, too much of the fun of it is being taken out of it Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:21
Speaker
And I will say that is the one thing that I have like kept with me through this entire last season is i could easily be done. Like, I don't have to be here, but this is fun. Like, what's the point in doing it if I'm not having a good time? And I think that's affected my performance a lot.
00:14:40
Speaker
what What do you think your coaches do? Describe the fun atmosphere of the tumbling team, because I all i think all coaches are good hearted.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah. Even youth coaches that some think are crazy. They have really good desires. They want their kids to be having fun. I'm just curious what they do to make it fun.
00:15:03
Speaker
So it is funny. So a lot of my elite career, I was actually at a different gym and i loved those coaches. They were amazing. Their environment um and coaching style was very different. It was very like everything was super planned out and I had like an assignment written down for me every day And I'm very type a And so i thought that was ideal for me was to have like a very type A coach and have everything super structured.
00:15:31
Speaker
And then when I moved to the gym that I am, I'm at now, she's actually our national team coach. So that was part of the reason I moved to her. um She's very laid back. And ah it took me a minute to adjust because I wasn't having these assignments every day. And like, but in a way, it kind of removed the pressure. It's like, okay, let's see how we're feeling.
00:15:52
Speaker
Let's see what your body can handle today. And then like other random things on every once in a while, we'll do like a fun warmup where we'll play volleyball or we'll play kickball. And that's like has nothing to do with our sport. And to be honest, all of our hand-eye coordination is horrible.
00:16:11
Speaker
So it's just fun. Like it it's not competitive. It's not crazy. It's just fun. yeah I want to discover what it is about dancing and cheer and hand-eye coordination go away because i have daughters that have danced and I'm like, man, what what is that? Yeah, so my husband says that all the time. He's like, you're the most athletic person I know, but you have zero hand-eye coordination. Yeah.
00:16:38
Speaker
that's ah that's That's a thing. I'm going to stay away from commenting on that in case my daughters listen to this. Listening in. Yeah. One is still dancing at Utah State, so I'm not going to stay out of that. but um But between us three, yeah the hand-eye coordination could use some more.
00:16:56
Speaker
the If there's a ball involved, it gets a little dangerous at our house with those three, my daughters. That's hilarious. Yeah. go back to the first time you, you said you did the, i don't know what you would call it. The,
00:17:10
Speaker
the routine or the move or whatever that you put yourself on. It was coming out of your, it was when you were landing, right? Like you're, so first time you had to do that again, knowing, I mean, how did you just turn your brain off? You you say that like that's easy to do, but that's not because we tell athletes all the time, forget about it, you know, just play the game, you know, that's, but that's easier said than done.
00:17:35
Speaker
Right. Luckily for me, I was able to go They have gyms where there's like a foam pit, so it's not a hard landing. So the first couple of times I did that, but still, even with that beforehand, putting it back on the floor was terrifying. One thing i had learned from a sports psychologist is like to get in touch with your senses. And so being able to like, OK, I feel the carpet underneath my feet. I can see Coach Becky over here doing this. And Trying to take my thoughts away from, oh my gosh, the last time I did this, I hurt my foot. Just focusing on other things and then just letting my body do it.
00:18:18
Speaker
That's interesting because, golly, that reminded me of a podcast we did last year. And I've used it since a hundred times in coaching and also just in my own life. but We had a professional golfer on named Daniel Summerhays.
00:18:33
Speaker
And I talked, i mean, this is the big time golfer and he's competed in in the biggest tournaments in the world. And he, I asked him a question about when you make them, you miss a putt that could cost you the tournament, you know, a three foot putt, something you've made a thousands and thousands of times in two more minutes, you got to hit another golf ball. You got to walk over to and the next hole and move on.
00:18:58
Speaker
And how do you address, how do you forget about it? And he said, very similar to what you just said, which is interesting. He said, I don't forget about it necessarily. I let it play out. But then he talked about what he does is he focused on a river the analogy he gave was thinking about a river and all the things in the river that he could see that would but were beautiful in the river. Is the water, the sun hitting the water a certain way? Is there a leaf floating down the river? and And he takes a second to like, he doesn't focus on the piece of trash that's in the river. That was the shot he just missed.
00:19:34
Speaker
He acknowledges it, but he lets it go down the river. And then he focuses, he lets himself think about other things in the environment. Like you just said, it might be the leaves on the tree or a blade of brass or a bird flying away and, and lets his body kind of come back to, okay, next shot.
00:19:52
Speaker
Right. Like that's kind of what you're saying, right? Like, right. You where of what's around you and not focusing so much on landing, letting your muscle memory now just.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah. Right. That that would be by turning your brain off and just letting your muscle memory take, take charge. Yeah, because I've done that skill a million times. I've done it so many times that my body knows what it's doing. And even still, like it's been, i think I did around this time last year. It's been a year. And I still, every time I do that skill, I take a second where it just, I get a little nervous. It's the only skill that I ever get nervous for.
00:20:33
Speaker
But same thing, I have to go back and focus on not the potential outcome, but like my surroundings, just getting my brain away from, but you could possibly get her on this. Yeah.
00:20:49
Speaker
And so how do you, the things you think about it was it was really interesting as Dustin said that I remember that being such an interesting thing to get into the mind of an elite athlete. Like how do you turn your mind toward things? What do you turn your mind toward?
00:21:05
Speaker
Do you have a mental routine to clear your mind or things you think through? Like you're standing there, you're just about to do a run and, and what goes on in Ashley's mind that leads to such elite outcomes?
00:21:22
Speaker
And one of the things you said, you don't focus on the outcome. What is in your mind? I feel like specifically right before I compete, as I'm chalking up, standing up on the floor, I'm not focused on the skills necessarily, but the corrections I typically get from my coach. so It's like, okay, turn around your round off fast, get your arms back and not necessarily, okay, I have to do this skill to another big skill at the end.
00:21:49
Speaker
It's just breaking it down to things I've been doing since I'm a kid or since I was a kid. Yeah. So those those individual little corrections. Like I i remember, and what was the golfer's name, the BYU golfer, Zach Jones? Zach Jones, yeah. He has this little thing when he's over a ball that I forget. One of the things he said that I say now because it helps me when I golf is like something like bump your hip or something like that. He has these little cues that coaches have given him that he stands over the ball and he says two or three things to him.
00:22:25
Speaker
to himself and that he just kind of goes through. And so something similar with you, the corrections. and Yeah. The last thing he says to himself, which very last thing he says to himself is I'm the greatest golfer in the world.
00:22:39
Speaker
And then he just takes the club back. And just, just to have that, well not, not that self-confidence, not cocky, but that self-confidence of, right. I mean, that's like, you are Ashley, like you were a, you were a national champion. Like you should, you should have that thought, right. I'm the best here. And then just, Yeah, yeah and just go do your thing. And and it's it's beautiful to watch. Like it really is. i' I challenge anybody who who haven't seen this to go look at what you do. My guess is there's not a lot of people in the world, even you know at the highest level of gymnast gymnastics and the Olympics and things, they do their other the other routines. But what you do specifically
00:23:20
Speaker
has an extra level of difficulty just because of how much you're in the air compared to on the ground, you know? Yeah. It's, yeah. And since it is like a continuing routine, it's like flip after flip after flip. The smallest error can be detrimental to your whole routine. Whereas like in gymnastics, if they fall on one of them, they can stand up, dance and then do another pass.
00:23:46
Speaker
But it's like, I'm done. Like I have a tiny error and I'm done and that's it. Yeah. Because the momentum you have, you have to continue through it. You one time you can't. Yeah. That makes sense. In the runway, house how wide that?
00:23:59
Speaker
why does that
00:24:02
Speaker
Probably three feet. I don't know. Two and a half, three feet. I'm not sure. Dustin, if I just closed my eyes, like that's my only trick. Right. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to close my eyes. Print down this runway. I honestly do not think I could do it without going off one side or the other. yeah And you all are sitting there just flip after flip. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:26
Speaker
To us, it looks like you're just you would be disoriented. But you look at things like when you're in the air, are you looking at the ground? the the like ah Yes and no.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah, i close my eyes when I'm doing like a double. But in my single skills, I open my eyes. But yeah, it is kind of hard to spot because you're moving so fast. But yeah, i spot the ground on my single skills and then it's more of my muscle memory when my eyes are closed with my doubles.
00:24:56
Speaker
And why do you close your eyes? I don't know. It's actually, I'm not supposed to. Like when my coach found out when I was younger, he was like, you close your eyes. But I think that's just how I started doing I didn't think about it. Like you don't think about breathing or if your eyes are open or closed, like it's just kind of what it is. Yeah. tell it Walk us through what your day looked like when you were I mean, you said 13. I mean, at 13, you knew you were really, really good.
00:25:25
Speaker
You weren't just doing tumbling just, you know, for exercise. Like you'd obviously did. And it was something that you and your parents and I know your family, your mom. I don't know your dad as well. I know your mom and her family really well. Mm hmm.
00:25:39
Speaker
Obviously, Ashley and I are are relatives. Her mom is, I guess, a second cousin of mine. but And I know your uncles are all really good athletes. And um what but what was your like 13, 14? You're really, really good. What tell us what your day looked like and sacrifices you had to make. Talk to that 14 year old in any sport that thinks they're working hard. But talk to him about what real dedication looks like.
00:26:06
Speaker
On like a typical training day, would have school from eight to three-ish. I'd come home, I'd have a snack, and then my mom would take me to training and I'd have... Our trainings were typically two and a half hours. And then I'd come home, eat dinner, get to bed at a good time because...
00:26:28
Speaker
I had to wake up early for school. And then on the weekends, we'd always have a Saturday morning training. So luckily we'd go to school and I'd go to training right after school. So I was done around six. But um I honestly, i would hang out with my friends sometimes, but because I had to be up so early, I had 8 a.m. trainings and my practice is like 30 minutes away.
00:26:48
Speaker
um But because I had early morning trainings, I made sure to get home at a good time, get to bed at a good time. um I also not when I was 13, but when I was older, um we always do conditioning at practice. But um as I got older, I wanted to do more on my own.
00:27:05
Speaker
So my parents had like little exercise room and I'd write little workouts for myself and work out couple times a week on top of training. And yeah. Was year round?
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yes. It's tricky because our season is begins in January. And then my last competition was a week ago at the beginning of November. So have about six weeks off, but I don't take that time off. I still train, but yeah, it's like year round. So you're training most weeks. You're training six days a week. For tumbling, now I'm only doing about four or five times a week and less time, but...
00:27:44
Speaker
When you were younger, were you doing more than you're doing now?
00:27:50
Speaker
I would say my actual trainings were a little bit longer. They were two and a half or three hours. And I was there four times a week. So it's about the same, honestly. Yeah. Okay. and And you had to make weekends.
00:28:04
Speaker
Tell me about the sleep thing. you mean, you you mentioned twice. Yeah. Your focus on making sure you got to bed on time. How important was that to you to to get sleep?
00:28:16
Speaker
I feel like I didn't realize it as much as when I was younger. But now that I'm older, it's even more of a priority for me. But I just tried to get good sleep because my mom said I needed to and I needed to rest. But now that I'm older, I understand that's my body's time to recover.
00:28:31
Speaker
and I can't perform my best if I'm under recovered. Yeah. So I've also recently started taking magnesium to help me have a deeper, better sleep. But yeah, definitely had to make some sacrifices as a kid.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that interested me about your story is you said you made the national team for the first time in what year? The first time I made national team, I was in 2017. 17 and then 18 and then 19.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah. COVID 20, 21, not 22, injured 23, 24, and then 25. finally made it again. Yeah. not twenty one not twenty two injured twenty three twenty four and then twenty five i finally made it again yeah So through that time, did you ever, I'm just curious, like what kept you going for that three years and what goes on in your mind to help you be resilient to say, no, there's more there. There's more in the tank. I'm not going to close the door on myself.
00:29:30
Speaker
I'm just curious about that. Well, on top of my injury, I had a couple of rough seasons leading up to it. I feel like this season, I haven't had a season this good since 2017. 2018, I like barely made it on. 2019, same thing. I barely made it on.
00:29:45
Speaker
twenty nineteen same thing i barely made it on And it was because like other people had messed up. um 2020, it was COVID, which I was still training, but it was kind of a weird time. Motivation was low. I didn't know when things would, it's like, what am I training for? We don't know when we'll be competing again. Yeah.
00:30:05
Speaker
2021, I had a really, really rough season. 2022, again, another really bad season. It's kind of going back to where i could train my routines. Then when I would go to compete, I just would mess up. i I don't know.
00:30:19
Speaker
My brain, there was something off and where I wasn't able to perform. And then 2023, I was feeling good. And then, of course, there's an injury. um After my injury, i was pretty sure I was going to be done. But a little part of me was like, I don't want to go out like that.
00:30:40
Speaker
I feel like I have more to offer. And once I close the store, at least for tumbling, it's kind of like it's over. It's really hard to get back after you take some time off. People do it, but I knew once I was done, i was done. I wasn't going to try and come back two years later when I'm 24, 25.
00:31:00
Speaker
um So just knowing that I had more to offer and i felt like my competitors like hadn't seen the real me yet, I guess, because i can I trained it so well, but when I'd go and compete,
00:31:16
Speaker
That's not the same athlete that was in yeah training. Yeah. You know, Dustin said something that I have repeated to kids a thousand times since he said it on our podcast. And maybe it's part of my own story too, where he gives the advice, don't close the door on yourself.
00:31:34
Speaker
like Make someone close the door on your goals, right? You don't close them on yourself. And um what would you say to To young people, you know, we have kids right now just finished high school soccer and volleyball and football and cross country and all that. They may be ending their career. They have a chance to go on and they're wondering, I don't know, should I walk on? Should I do this? Should i do that?
00:32:01
Speaker
I feel like but your experience. What would you tell those kids? I feel like if you have any question, whether you should or shouldn't, I think you should. I feel like when you're supposed to be done, you're going to know.
00:32:15
Speaker
Like you're not going to have a question in your mind. And that's kind of what kept me going is I was debating, should I keep going? Should I stop?
00:32:26
Speaker
And I told myself the fact you're asking that questions or that question shows that you should keep going. You're going to know. Yeah. Yeah. that's the That's the phrase, Shad, that you heard me say a lot about empty in the tank, right?
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. If you still have gas in the tank in that particular ah that particular machine, you can't really, you know, some people say you'll take that passion, you'll put it towards business or you'll put it towards something else. I remember hearing that all the time.
00:32:57
Speaker
Personally, it didn't, it didn't translate for me. It was a different engine, right? Like that had a different set. It would required different gasoline. The competitive sport motor had a certain type of gasoline that If I didn't use it all, it was just going to sit there and fester and annoy me that it was there. And I couldn't, and you really can't use it again.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah. Burn it. Or, and then once it's done, it's done and you'll know I can't go anymore. Right. That might be injury. That might be, you get cut, you, but it or you reach your goals.
00:33:32
Speaker
You accomplish what you want it to and you just, you know what? I'm good. I feel like I'm done. i'm I'm out of gas now. And then I can, that I mean, is that is that how you feel? And and I guess my follow-up to that, Ashley, is where are you at? How much gas do you have in the game?
00:33:47
Speaker
Yeah. One more thing I had thought of was I also didn't want to make a decision based off of my emotions. Yeah. Post-injury, of course, I was super upset, super bitter that I had just had so many rough seasons. And as soon as I started feeling good, it I had an injury. So I kind of had to remove myself from the situation for a little bit and think more long term.
00:34:10
Speaker
and not act on my short-term emotional state. um So that's another thing that I would have told my younger self is not to make a decision based off of my emotions. um As for the future,
00:34:23
Speaker
i had considered being done after this year, um but it was a great season. I'm feeling good. i for sure want to go another year, and then we'll see how I'm feeling after that and kind of go from there.
00:34:38
Speaker
It's really cool. And it it goes back, Dustin, to something she said earlier that, you know, Dustin and I played college baseball together. And so, you know, I was this Southern California boy that went up to Idaho to play baseball. Yeah. Never even considered weather being part of baseball because i don't know that I ever wore sleeves in a baseball game unless it was to look cool.
00:35:04
Speaker
But, You know, the weather, the just some dynamics that existed in that particular program and things, even though like best friends are there and I love them, still my best friends today.
00:35:19
Speaker
if if you still have gas in your tank, I love what you're saying. Like if if the place is not, if you're not enjoying it, just just switch, you know? you ah good Don't assume that every experience is going to be like the current experience. And I i was working through an injury. It was freezing cold. that There was these other things going on. And I was just like, oh man, I don't know if I want that again. And then all of sudden, six months later,
00:35:48
Speaker
I'm feeling healthy. I'm stronger than I've ever been. I'm running faster than ever. But like you said, you kind of close that door. You don't keep pushing. And it's yeah really hard to reopen that door. Right. yeah and And so I just think that's such important advice that your experience teaches is if there's gas in that tank,
00:36:09
Speaker
burn it. Don't close the door on yourself. Get every opportunity you can out of, because the time when you could actually play sports at a high level, it is such a little window of your life. Just, man, I hope kids listen to this. We'll do what you did and just make the most out of it and burn every ounce of gas that's in their tank.
00:36:31
Speaker
And I think also coming back from my injury has made me more appreciative because When I was in high school, I was traveling traveling to all these places.
00:36:42
Speaker
So cool, like such cool experiences. But in the moment, I wouldn't say I wasn't grateful for the opportunities, but in my head, there was always something more. it was like, okay, this is cool, but I want to do this. Whereas this year, this was the first year where I was like, this is so fun. I can't believe I get to travel the world with my best friends and we're competing. And this is fun I'm so grateful that I get to do this. And i think that's also part of the reason I kept going is I wanted to live these experiences again and be more in the moment and be more grateful that I was even there. Yeah.
00:37:20
Speaker
i want I want to, I to, we have a couple more questions and we'll let you go, Ashley, but I want to transition to, I just thought of this as you were saying what you just said a little more of a serious conversation.
00:37:31
Speaker
kind of topic here angle but when you compete at these world events you meet girls and boys competitors from all over the world right do you develop relationships with them i mean do you see them regular do you have enough time to get to know them at all A little bit.
00:37:49
Speaker
feel like this ah since i it's been so long since I've been on the world stage, this is my first time making relationships with these people again. Just because the people I competed against five, six years ago, some of them are done. Some of them aren't competing anymore. But yeah, since you see them every year and we have a couple World Cups throughout the year, ah you definitely become friends um throughout the year.
00:38:17
Speaker
Well, you just kind of answered but my next question as you become friends. h One of the things that we sometimes go down and I think it's appropriate with just kind of what's going on in the world right now is that these people that you meet from these other countries, I'm confident have a completely different upbringing than you have.
00:38:37
Speaker
Completely different. 100%. Religious beliefs, obviously the ethnicity, the culture, everything about it. Their schooling, everything was different other than you guys have one thing in common and that is this sport.
00:38:51
Speaker
And when you get together, because of that one thing in common, you don't focus on all the other things you don't have in common. You are friends because of the sport, right? It brings you together. And you don't, my guess is, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you probably have never thought about all those other things, what religion or what you know color of skin they are, language they speak. They're just, they're your friend and you yeah focus on what you have in common Yeah. right Instead of all the things you don't have in common. and For sure.
00:39:24
Speaker
Right. So, again, I'm throwing ah a pretty deep question at you, but do you see a parallel there, a comparison to what the world could be like if we would approach the world more like we did?
00:39:39
Speaker
sports and competition and team and like can we compete with each other and still get along and be friends is that possible yeah and that's what's funny is i feel like on the floor when we're warming up in the back everybody's super friendly we're all getting along um and we go out to compete it's not that we're not getting along everybody's just a little more focused we do our thing and then no matter what happens If somebody from France beats me, somebody from Japan, whatever it is, it's at the end, we all get a photo together, congratulate each other. And it's fun. Yeah, we're friends. I think we all genuinely want to see each other do well.
00:40:19
Speaker
And like genuinely, I feel like people say that, but that's something that I feel like is unique about our sport is that everybody wants everybody to do well. And I would say even within, you said outside of the U.S., people who have grown up um differently from me, I would say I see that even within our country. Yeah.
00:40:44
Speaker
And my roommate, she's my good friend. I've been competing with her for years. She grew up in Tennessee. Like, I feel like we were raised very differently, but we're like the best of friends. And despite maybe some of our differences, we're really close and we have that common interest and we were able to develop a friendship through that.
00:41:04
Speaker
Isn't that awesome, Shad? We talk about it a lot, but how, man, if we could get people to stop focusing on all the things that they they don't have in common and rather focus on the things they enjoy and that they do have in common, a lot of the hatred in the world would would go away because we'd see people as more like us and that, you know what, we are this person's really cool. We enjoy the same thing. And I genuinely want to see her be successful because you know what she's gone through to be doing what she's doing at Worlds or at Nationals. 100%, yeah.
00:41:44
Speaker
You know what her body's gone through and her emotions. And so, yeah, you you see them as people, not just as something in the way of the trophy. Yeah. why Yeah.
00:41:54
Speaker
And that was also the fun thing about rooming with this girl from Tennessee. Her name's Tia. We would go through our trainings and then we'd go back to our room and talk about kind of what it took to get there. Like she would tell me about, oh, I've been having this Achilles pain and we would just bond over that. And then it makes you even more excited for them when they do well. She did so great at our competition and made me even more excited for her because I know what she had to go through to get to this point.
00:42:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I love what sports does, Dustin. i feel like, and we've said this many times, but if the world could function a little bit more like athletes function, you know, where they focus on those things they have in common. And I love what you said, Ashley, that there's that, that time,
00:42:49
Speaker
you know, behind when you're warming up and going through your routines. And then there's the time you're on the floor and it's focused and it's competitive. And then there's the time where I bet there's been times where you've comforted another girl or she's comforted you, you know, even though you're competitors, you know what you put into it, you know the disappointment. And so there's a time to be focused on you and your routine.
00:43:14
Speaker
And then it sounds to me like there's other times where your eyes are up, are saying his eyes up, do the work, you know, and your eyes are up and you see someone who's maybe a little disappointed or injured or having a hard time. And you're saying,
00:43:29
Speaker
I need to do what's right here. And you care about them. It's not that I need to do what's right, even if I don't want to. yeah You care about them and you go and you, you talk to them, you comfort them, you encourage them. And I love that about sports.
00:43:44
Speaker
It's awesome. Have you had any experience with that, that comforting aspect, either people coming to you and, and helping you or you helping others? Yeah, actually in Spain. So we have at world championships every year, they have a team final.
00:44:01
Speaker
i had mentioned that earlier. So I'm competing against all of these other girls in the U.S., the other three girls that are there. But also they take our scores to qualify us into the team final. So it's weird. You're competing on your own. You're competing against them.
00:44:15
Speaker
But then in a completely different round, you're competing together. um And when we are competing in the first individual round, One of our teammates, she messed up one of her routines um and she was super down. And Tia and i had to build her back up like, OK, you got this. You've got one more.
00:44:37
Speaker
um Like we needed her to do another good routine. But at the same time, we've seen her all this whole season. get to this point it's like okay at the end of the day it's one routine it's okay if you mess up um but we need you to get back on for this next one you can do it and just building her up she came back hit it we qualified it was great um And it sounds like ah we only picked her up so we could get that score, but that's not what it was. We've seen her all season get to this point.
00:45:11
Speaker
It's like, don't let this one routine break your confidence. You know what you're capable of. you believe You deserve to be here. Now show the world what you've got. And that's what she did. And it was it was great.
00:45:24
Speaker
Well, and in in the team setting too, the better that they do and the harder that they work, the more that that's going to push you. If you, in this sense, you want to also beat them, right? Like, I mean, you're, you're also competing against them. And so even in a team setting where you're, it's a little different in what, in what you do and that you're not all pro.
00:45:46
Speaker
doing it at the same time like you would in a basketball game, right? Five teammates are all involved in the same play. But but i you know it the harder my teammate works and the better they get, the more I have to work if I want to stay on the floor in a basketball game, right? Because everybody is working harder than me and getting better than me. Yes, that's great for the team. We're all going to win, but I'm going to be sitting on the bench watching it. Mm-hmm.
00:46:14
Speaker
you're right if you want to be in the, actually in the arena on the field playing, you also have to beat out your teammate. So it's, it's, it's not a catch 22, but it is sort of a, like, yeah,
00:46:26
Speaker
Right. Like I want you to do well because that's I got to then do better. have a professional football player on here. Really good. ah I mean, he was a all pro multiple times. And he said that he used to give tips and advice to other players at his position who could take his job.
00:46:44
Speaker
Yeah. They could be from other teams, even they could be traded for him. But those that were his backups, new new draft picks, and he would teach them things and give them advice. And he said nobody did that for him when he was a rookie, when he was young in the in the NFL. He would ask advice of other guys in his position and they'd all say, hey, man, I'm not telling you anything. You go figure it out. Because They didn't want to lose their spot.
00:47:10
Speaker
Right. yeah And I said to him, well, why did you do it then? And he said, because if I give them my tips and my tricks, right, I then have to go get new ones now.
00:47:21
Speaker
I got to go get better. so it was a motivating force for him to be like, okay, I just gave this guy five years of wisdom that he's been in, you know, five days.
00:47:31
Speaker
Now I got to go find more. He's going to take my job. Yeah. So my guess is that you want them to do well. There's a little part of you, Ashley. I know you, I know your family and I just, the competitor in you that Shad and I, we've all played sports. Every time you see them getting a little better, I'm guessing there's a little fire that goes off in you that says, okay,
00:47:53
Speaker
I'm to stay little longer tonight and get a little, going work a little harder now, right? For sure. My mom and I talk about this all the time, just where we'll get to one of these national meets. So they pick their world team based off of the national meets. And usually there's one girl who will come in super strong. And my initial reaction is like, oh, shoot, like, she's really good. She's going to beat me. But then I'm also grateful because I'm like, oh, now I have to go home and push myself harder. I have to up my difficulty. I have to...
00:48:21
Speaker
do this. So it really does just raise the bar for our country in general. Yeah. Well, and that's why our principle of competing without contempt, and you've touched on, we haven't we haven't mentioned them as you've been saying it, but we've touched on all four of our principles. Seeking to bless, not impress you going and talking to your teammates.
00:48:43
Speaker
and and wanting you and Tia and wanting her to do well. Yeah. Because you were going to get, you know what I mean? Yes, you guys were going to advance, but we wanted to genuinely see her do well and have that moment.
00:48:56
Speaker
Yeah. You know, the winning the hour, like you had to be focused on getting to bed on time. You had to be focused on, you know, two and a half to three, four hours of work every day and resiliency, obviously the focus to come back from an injury and stay after it and, and so keep your mind right and everything. But the, you know, the competing without contempt principle,
00:49:17
Speaker
is that the competition is good. It drives us in the world. it's It's what makes the world advance is that we compete with each other. and Who can come up with the next greatest invention or the next greatest, how can we make the internet a little bit faster, right? And every year we've got another 6G, like it just gets faster and faster.
00:49:37
Speaker
But it's the drive to you know to be the best that sports creates and that actually you've driven yourself to The difference is few people get a say they actually reached the pinnacle and the top of the mountain and you did.
00:49:55
Speaker
So that's awesome. Congratulations on all your success. It's really cool. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's not very often that we get a world anything on here, national champion on here. don't think we ever have. Had we, Shad?
00:50:08
Speaker
Well, I think only ryan White, you know, he's had Ryan and she won the U.S. backstroke, if I remember correctly, then got silver.
00:50:19
Speaker
yeah know maybe Maybe we've had a few like that, but they've been rare. They've been rare. Do you do much with the gymnasts, the U.S. s gymnastics? I mean, you know them? do you associate at all with them?
00:50:31
Speaker
Not really. i feel like our competition season is pretty similar, but we're usually in different locations. So they'll be in one state competing, we'll be in another. But yeah, so not really.
00:50:41
Speaker
Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us. you know Thank you for having me. I hope there's people in the in the tumbling and and you know trampoline world that you're in that you know this can they can get access to this interview and maybe find some you know some help from it and and becoming great and learning from you. You've done it a long time and obviously been extremely successful and But even even if you're not in that specific sport, you know, learning from you and and especially your comeback, I didn't realize that you didn't make that team before the injury. it would it yeah
00:51:17
Speaker
And then you had to deal with the injury. So there was yeah probably a pretty down time there, right? that For sure. it was. We were in the trenches. It was rough. Yeah. And yet now look at you and you're, you're happy and successful and married and awesome. yeah So congratulations. And thanks so much for joining us.
00:51:36
Speaker
Thank you for having me. Yeah, Shad, anything that you've got before we wrap it up? No, just thank you so much for what you shared. I think people's stories and experiences teach the greatest lessons, and we love to teach them through sports and those experiences. And so, incredible job, and just congratulations from me too on all your accomplishments, and thank you for sharing them with us. Thank you. And Kate, keep working on the hand-eye coordination for volleyball. I will. I will. We've got a big family reunion coming up.
00:52:08
Speaker
you're ready Yeah, golf too, right? Don't you guys kind of take over Bear Lake Golf Course? yeah Yeah, we can go golf. I have a dancing daughter that's transitioning right now to learn to golf with her boyfriend, and she's, you know, it's coming. It's coming, but it's... Golf's the toughest of all of them when it comes to that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:31
Speaker
fine Thanks so much. Thanks for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. Keep your eyes up and do the work. Thank you for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast.
00:52:41
Speaker
To learn more about Especially for Athletes organization, get a copy of our book, The Sportlight, or to bring our program to your team, school, business, or organization, visit us at especiallyforathletes.org.