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Mad Ange: Sobriety, Grief & the Long Crawl Back | What's Kraken
7 Plays3 days ago
In this episode of What's Kraken, Jo sits down with Mad Ange — artist, writer, publisher, burlesque performer, and lifelong Vegas weirdo — for two hours on sobriety, grief, the old internet, and the long crawl back to yourself. Funny, filthy, and a lot more personal than either of them planned.
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Key Moments
- Opening riff – A virgin strawberry daiquiri so vile it deserved to die in a fire. Jo wanted to chuck it at an Uber driver; a red light killed the plan. Mid-interview, he asks if Mad Ange would've run the light for him — no hesitation: "Fuck yes."
- Getting sober – Both came up the hard way. Mad Ange quit during shutdown — 14.5 months, six drinks since — after trying to get an abusive boyfriend to quit with her. He lasted 14 hours.
- The feral early internet – Usenet, AOL, Lycos, and the Vegas chat rooms they were both haunting in the 90s without ever crossing paths.
- A career with no single lane – Award-winning non-nude fetish model, ten years of burlesque, painting, sewing, stage managing, and a film-school noir parody shot in an escape room in under two hours.
- Crafty Bat – 12 years running. She built the occult day-planner Ephemeronomicon in 10 days with YouTuber Billy Brujo.
- The family grammar book – Reissuing an Urdu-English grammar written by her great-great-grandfather, printed out of the family home in Pakistan, with her dad on the foreword.
- The heart of it: loss – Losing her mother, a young friend, and fellow Vegas artist Masuimi Max within weeks of each other. Grief as waves, the year after as a chrysalis, and the slow rebuild.
- Advice to her younger self – Ignore everyone who says art isn't a real job. Keep being weird, keep being creative, keep falling in love.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Absinthe Anecdotes
00:00:06
Jo
ah I'm always surprised when I see my, well, shit, like, hey everyone, Joe here. Today on What's Kraken, we got Mad Ange. Say that five times too fast.
00:00:14
Mad Ange
Hello.
00:00:15
Jo
Mad Ange, Mad Ange, Mad Ange. Hello, hello, hello.
00:00:18
Mad Ange
Hello, hello
00:00:18
Jo
Full disclosure, ah we we know each other.
00:00:22
Mad Ange
No, we don't.
00:00:23
Jo
We know each other.
00:00:23
Mad Ange
I've never met this man.
00:00:24
Jo
Yeah. No, we don't. Sorry, we don't. No, sorry.
00:00:25
Mad Ange
<unk> Never met this man before.
00:00:26
Jo
Full disclosure, each other. I have no idea who this person is. She's definitely not drinking what I believe to be absence missed mixed with lepardno leprechaun piss. I can't say anything today.
00:00:38
Mad Ange
could be.
00:00:40
Jo
That actually was going to be a drinking contest for the award show.
00:00:40
Mad Ange
could be
00:00:44
Jo
Every time I fucked up a name, take a shot. But we ran out of alcohol.
00:00:48
Mad Ange
That would have been a lot of, yeah.
00:00:49
Jo
Oh, wow.
00:00:52
Jo
That was a lot.
00:00:53
Mad Ange
That would have been
Alcohol Struggles & Quitting Journey
00:00:54
Mad Ange
alcohol poisoning for everybody, even the people that weren't drinking.
00:00:54
Jo
My answer.
00:00:57
Jo
Okay, usually we talk about like art and stuff, but first, but I really want to know, have you ever had alcohol poisoning?
00:00:58
Mad Ange
its the
00:01:06
Mad Ange
Varying degrees of it. Yes.
00:01:08
Jo
It sucks, right?
00:01:09
Mad Ange
Yes.
00:01:09
Jo
Same here. Same here, yeah.
00:01:11
Mad Ange
Yeah. Like I,
00:01:12
Jo
Yeah, and sadly enough, yeah.
00:01:15
Mad Ange
Oh, like, I i mean, i was I was kind of a drunk for a while. um ah so
00:01:23
Jo
Sorry.
00:01:23
Mad Ange
i I would quit every now and then. but um and then I would just get upset about something and start again and then just be like, we're going on a bender for a while, for a couple of years.
00:01:30
Jo
improve
00:01:33
Jo
Yeah.
00:01:33
Mad Ange
um And then, yeah, I finally, like, I got so sick of being sick from it that I, uh, I mean, there's a lot more to the story of why I quit, but I finally was like, I'm not going to drink for a month.
00:01:48
Jo
Tariffs. Fucking tariffs.
00:01:50
Mad Ange
Um, no, I was, I was, uh, I was dating an abusive alcoholic after having dated and ah ah crazy alcoholic.
00:01:50
Jo
That's why I stopped drinking. Kidding. Sort of. No.
00:01:59
Mad Ange
Um, and I was trying to get him to drink.
00:02:00
Jo
No. Is that a downgrade or an upgrade? Is like the crazy alcoholic better than the abusive one?
00:02:04
Mad Ange
Yes. Yes. The crazy one was better.
00:02:06
Jo
Okay, because they're not abusive.
00:02:06
Mad Ange
um
00:02:07
Jo
They're just crazy. Okay.
00:02:08
Mad Ange
Right. ah No, the abusive one, it was bad. And I kept trying to get him just quit. And then finally during shutdown, early on in shutdown, i'm like, you need to fucking quit.
00:02:18
Jo
Oh, shit.
00:02:20
Mad Ange
Like, I can't fucking deal with you. And um and i was like, I will quit with you.
00:02:22
Jo
Yeah.
00:02:26
Mad Ange
and i was like, I'll quit for a month. Let's quit just quit for a month. And he was like, okay. He made it 14 hours. I've
00:02:35
Jo
Okay.
00:02:36
Mad Ange
i've
00:02:36
Jo
Okay.
00:02:36
Mad Ange
I made it 14 and a half months.
00:02:40
Jo
Nice.
00:02:40
Mad Ange
And then I think I've had maybe six drinks since then.
00:02:47
Jo
That's not bad. And that's the thing, man.
00:02:48
Mad Ange
Like.
00:02:49
Jo
It's like, yeah, alcohol poisoning again. i don't think we ever, have I ever told you this I had a in Vegas,
Goth Phase & Online Beginnings
00:03:02
Jo
took a dancer home,
00:03:04
Jo
And I was so fucking like just beyond like, you you know, you get drunk, you basically numb and like it should stop there. You keep going because this Vegas, of course it is.
00:03:13
Mad Ange
No.
00:03:15
Jo
And you keep in like, you just go way too far. And then like, it's not even like you're throwing up, but it's like you have a fever and throwing up. It's like, honestly, God, like someone please pump my stomach. But at this point, yeah, when I couldn't actually I took her home and then I didn't spend any time with her.
00:03:34
Jo
And even then I'm like, the next day I'm like, okay, whatever. You know, they like alcohol poisoning, you think we'd stop at alcohol poisoning? No, you don't. You you just keep going because it's the alcoholic.
00:03:41
Mad Ange
no
00:03:43
Jo
Your alcohol is like, you have to say like, you're addicted to this shit, right? Like, just keep going. And so, yeah, I get it with the, God dang, man. Like, if I had to be locked in with someone that was completely fucking, that would be rough.
00:03:57
Jo
So, $14.
00:03:58
Mad Ange
Oh God, it was, hum yeah, he didn't, he didn't quit.
00:03:58
Jo
Yeah.
00:04:02
Mad Ange
So it was, um my life would be a lot different right now if I had gotten rid of him at the beginning of shutdown. I technically had broken up with him before that.
00:04:13
Mad Ange
And then, i don't know, he had, um you know, big sob story.
00:04:14
Jo
so Good timing.
00:04:17
Mad Ange
And i was just like, You suck, but your family sucks worse and you need someone to take care of you.
00:04:24
Jo
Oh, you are the, you know, you're like the stray person.
00:04:25
Mad Ange
And like, so I'll help you. I used to be, i help you.
00:04:32
Jo
I'll help you. Yeah, no, really, you used to taking all the strays.
00:04:35
Mad Ange
help you. Yeah. My last house, we had 11 strays at one point in my last house.
00:04:37
Jo
I'll help you out.
00:04:40
Mad Ange
was
00:04:41
Jo
Yeah.
00:04:42
Mad Ange
oh
00:04:42
Jo
Yeah. Not crazy cat lady, just crazy.
00:04:45
Mad Ange
Yeah. You know,
00:04:46
Jo
i don't know. Crazy lady. I got, I don't know.
00:04:48
Mad Ange
Oh, yes, yes. I'm i'm and completely insane. but But just the Mad Ant part.
00:04:52
Jo
Thus the mad ang part.
00:04:55
Mad Ange
I mean, you i did I tell you the story of how I got Mad
00:04:56
Jo
So where'd it get? Yeah.
00:05:00
Jo
I was about to ask that. I got it.
00:05:01
Mad Ange
but
00:05:02
Jo
That was my question. Yes.
00:05:03
Mad Ange
Ant?
00:05:04
Jo
Look at my tea.
00:05:05
Mad Ange
It's from when i was a ah so when i was when I was a high schooler. Let's go way back. Let's go way back to the 90s.
00:05:12
Jo
high school wait wait wait wait hold up you were in high school and then oh wait so what was that what the fuck never mind like early 90s or late 90s whatever wait ending high school or like getting into high school
00:05:13
Mad Ange
Yeah, if we'll go back to the ninety s um
00:05:21
Mad Ange
Mid-90s.
00:05:24
Mad Ange
it
00:05:27
Mad Ange
I would have ended high school in the year 2000.
00:05:32
Jo
mean fucking fucking millennials you spoiled sons of bitches you
00:05:33
Mad Ange
First year millennial.
00:05:36
Mad Ange
I know. Oh, yes, I'm so s spoiled. I'm so spoiled that I had to have 11 people live in my house so we could make a rent. Yeah. if it
00:05:44
Jo
Well, yeah. Okay. Spoiled millennial with a little millennial scholarship. How'd you get your millennial Mad Ang nickname?
00:05:50
Mad Ange
Oh, I didn't get the millennial scholar scholarship because I didn't finish high school.
00:05:54
Jo
Really?
00:05:55
Mad Ange
I didn't finish high school.
00:05:57
Jo
Oh, well.
00:05:57
Mad Ange
my My dad pulled me out of high school um after my sophomore year. So I only went for two years.
00:06:05
Jo
So wait, you got the mad part and within two years.
00:06:10
Mad Ange
like No, no, no. So post high school, I was, I was, yeah, it was immediately post high school.
00:06:12
Jo
Oh, post-high school. Okay.
00:06:15
Mad Ange
um You know, I was, I was getting, well why I was now a child, a child, I was now a child left home alone with the internet.
00:06:21
Jo
the child
00:06:24
Mad Ange
And I'd been on the internet since, you know, early AOL, since before AOL, since Usenet, like before Usenet, I'd been on it.
00:06:30
Jo
You've got mail.
00:06:31
Mad Ange
i'd I'd been on the internet for a while. I already knew the bad parts of the internet.
00:06:34
Jo
I've been on the internet. All the Gen Z are going like, how old are you?
00:06:36
Mad Ange
I was there when it started. but
00:06:39
Jo
How old are you? All the Gen Z are like, how fucking old are these people that was it before the internet? like Like we're talking like the internet ever exists. Like, yeah, motherfuckers. So you were like on like the dial up before AOL, Delphi and shit like that.
00:06:47
Mad Ange
oh
00:06:52
Mad Ange
Yeah, yeah. And then, ah you know, AOL and all that. And so i was I was used to being on the internet and being a weirdo on the internet and doing things you shouldn't be doing on the internet. And, ah yeah, no, and weird things, you know.
00:07:04
Jo
I don't know about that.
00:07:08
Jo
Yeah, I'm an angel.
00:07:09
Mad Ange
ah Throwing milkshakes at people, up up proverbial windshields. And, yeah.
00:07:14
Jo
Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on.
00:07:15
Mad Ange
ah
00:07:16
Jo
A, it wasn't a milkshake.
00:07:17
Mad Ange
but
00:07:18
Jo
It was, fuck, what was it? It was supposed to a virgin something. was supposed to virgin daiquiri.
00:07:23
Mad Ange
It was a virgin pina colada with a strawberry daiquiri mixed in.
00:07:27
Jo
Yeah, and I thought it was like fucking smoothie.
00:07:28
Mad Ange
yeah
00:07:30
Jo
thought it was going to make us a smoothie. Dumb me.
00:07:31
Mad Ange
Right.
00:07:32
Jo
Like, oh, a smoothie. We can share that.
00:07:34
Mad Ange
ah
00:07:34
Jo
No problem. or Okay, for those who play in the home game, we're talking about, what was it, the fight the the d Was it the D?
00:07:35
Mad Ange
Aren't you from here?
00:07:43
Mad Ange
Queens. The Four Queens.
00:07:44
Jo
Or what? Four Queens area. I was getting too confused. So for Queens Vegas, if you like play money or if you buy like $11, the bar, they'll they'll comp your, I wonder how much the fucking parking parking is like eight bucks.
00:07:57
Jo
I'm like, man, we could have.
00:07:58
Mad Ange
It was $4 an hour.
00:07:59
Jo
done but Oh, okay. So it must easier to do the fucking drink. Absolutely.
00:08:04
Mad Ange
Because I was there for like six hours.
00:08:04
Jo
um Yeah. Okay.
00:08:06
Mad Ange
seven Six hours. Seven.
00:08:08
Jo
Yeah.
00:08:08
Mad Ange
yeah yeah
00:08:10
Jo
This is when we discovered that neither of us drink anymore. we're like, oh, fuck. It's like, how about they like it? I don't want like alcohol. Like, what the fuck? I don't drink. So like we were trying to get like the cheapest thing that was still going to get over. And, you know, it turned out to be a sugar bomb that neither could actually take a more than one sip from before. were Like what?
00:08:28
Mad Ange
I had two sips.
00:08:28
Jo
So you had to.
00:08:30
Mad Ange
I made an effort.
00:08:30
Jo
Yeah, well, I tried the so to suck. It was huge. It's like Vegas. I mean, he put like, but I'm like, why is he putting more cream top this fucking thing? Like it's a fucking smoothie.
00:08:39
Mad Ange
For the aesthetics.
00:08:40
Jo
I'm like, what is it doing? Yeah. yeah ah
00:08:42
Mad Ange
ah
00:08:43
Jo
And so the, the, the idea to get rid of it came up and I saw this like Uber driver that was like sandwiched between two other Uber drivers. And he was like honking his horn, which I didn't like. And I was like, I've,
00:08:59
Jo
I talk like, oh, I should throw this fucking at them. Like, yeah, let's do it. And then the the the light turned red. I'm like, oh, thank God didn didn't do it. And just today I realize you would have ran the red light for me.
Fetish Modeling & Internet Adventures
00:09:10
Mad Ange
Oh, 100%. 100%. want even a second,
00:09:12
Jo
Yeah. See, now I didn't know that because last time. Dude. OK, so you don't know this guy, but and some other dude or in back of some guy's truck that might have been a drug dealer. And. ah we saw this gang, this gang. And we were just like, you know, fucking around. We were kids like, right. Oh fuck. You know, you piece of shit.
00:09:32
Jo
And the drug dealers slowed down. was like, Oh Christ, we're gonna get fucking killed. We're gonna get fucking killed.
00:09:38
Mad Ange
but
00:09:39
Jo
It wasn't even like slowing down. Cause he wanted to piss us off. He was slowing down. See that light of fucking blunt. I'm like, Jesus Christ, Brad, you're going to give us fucking go, go, go, go. Okay. We hear shooting. That's time to go buddy.
00:09:52
Mad Ange
Yeah, I know i um I've been in many cars with people like that Where it's like, some shit is going down You need to fucking go Why are you stopped?
00:10:00
Jo
Go. So yeah.
00:10:00
Mad Ange
Why are you sitting here? go We're go
00:10:02
Jo
Why are you white fucking brick? Pedal, pedal, pedal, pedal. Go, go, go, go, go. I can get out of the car and just run faster than this shit right now. So yeah, long story short, you would have ran it, so I appreciate that.
00:10:10
Mad Ange
ah
00:10:13
Jo
And we should have fucking just totally fucking through it.
00:10:13
Mad Ange
yeah no We should have. Well, we should have thrown it at a cyber truck. that wouldve been That would have been P. Oh, but they have their stupid cameras.
00:10:20
Jo
I would not have defaced a Cybertruck like that.
00:10:24
Mad Ange
but
00:10:27
Jo
I mean, it is fucking like the sugar probably melted off. So you wait, you said it and tell me how he got fucking mad edge. Welcome to our show. Ten minutes later, we'll get the story of mad edge.
00:10:38
Mad Ange
So I got into my, like, you know, hanging on the internet, got into my my goth phase. I discovered
00:10:43
Jo
Internet.
00:10:44
Mad Ange
I discovered goth music and I'm like, ooh, and the lifestyle and stuff.
00:10:47
Jo
Golf. Typo negative.
00:10:49
Mad Ange
And I'm like, oh, this shit all like fits in with me and what I'm into and my aesthetic. And um I don't know if you remember in the 90s internet. I don't know.
00:10:59
Mad Ange
Were you around like the goth scene at all at nighttime?
00:11:04
Jo
Nineties, I was AOL, mostly the Vegas rooms, or if you're talking like mid mid late nineties, it was AOL ah Vegas room.
00:11:09
Mad Ange
Oh, my God. We... we
00:11:14
Jo
I see Q. I mean, I didn't really die of that far into the internet after like the, like, okay. From 90 to 95. I'll say yes.
00:11:24
Mad Ange
So what's crazy about that is I was constantly in the Vegas rooms on a hu at the time.
00:11:31
Jo
What was your fucking name?
00:11:33
Mad Ange
I'm not going to say on here. ah
00:11:35
Jo
Oh, okay. yeah like Yeah. No, that's just... Okay. Were you in Vegas Town Square or places?
00:11:41
Mad Ange
All of them, there was so many different rooms and then I would make my own rooms and i would make, ah yeah, I would make some, some rooms every now and then.
00:11:41
Jo
Bitches. I was in Vegas m fourm
00:11:48
Jo
Fucker.
00:11:52
Mad Ange
um But yeah, I was always in the Vegas rooms, like constantly. Um...
00:11:56
Jo
Okay. I'm about to pump you... I mean, have to ask you for information. after this call, because now I'm curious, man, I don't remember.
00:12:03
Mad Ange
oh
00:12:03
Jo
Okay. Without incriminating yourself. Do you remember the time where allegedly trying really wear this legally, allegedly people were using fake credit cards or stolen to pay for the AOL bills? Because at the time it was per minute or per hour on tech. I can't remember.
00:12:24
Mad Ange
um Yeah, I was.
00:12:25
Jo
Were you around then?
00:12:27
Mad Ange
ah Yes, and you would get the little. OK, I'm not incriminating myself here. You would you would get the the bots, allegedly, where you could put in the first four digits of the credit card number and then you you would hit generate, generate, supposedly, supposedly.
00:12:31
Jo
this allegedly
00:12:37
Jo
Yes, the prefix. I mean, yes. I mean, that sounds like fiction.
00:12:44
Mad Ange
ah So I've read.
00:12:46
Jo
Yes.
00:12:46
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:12:47
Jo
I've read this in the archives in the in the fictional histories.
00:12:47
Mad Ange
that Yeah, and you would ah yeah you would keep hitting generate and then keep trying the different numbers until one worked.
00:12:54
Jo
Yeah, and just go through it. Yeah.
00:12:57
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:12:57
Jo
That was the... Identity and credit card theft as old as the internet. On the internet as old as the internet.
00:13:03
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:13:04
Jo
Yeah. And if you're in Vegas, you always had friends who worked for hotels and you don't take the full credit card because that's a kind of a dick thing. So you just do the, you know, the the generations, the gens and they don't, yeah, they don't really catch them.
00:13:16
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:13:19
Jo
Like their, their security was shit. Like absolute, like credit card security was shit.
00:13:22
Mad Ange
I didn't
00:13:23
Jo
Like AOL was shit.
00:13:26
Mad Ange
I still have a my AOL email address I actually have a pin that I wear on my jacket I think it's on my jacket right now that is a little the little AOL running man and it was like an employee pin um yeah it's it was an employee pin and it's like an enamel pin that's like one of my prized possessions but yeah
00:13:38
Jo
Yeah. Oh my God.
00:13:45
Jo
cool.
00:13:48
Jo
That's very cool. I actually built a house out of the disks, the AOL disks. I actually built a house, my first house. It was just a AOL disks. So you still didn't say fucking Mad Ant yet.
00:13:57
Mad Ange
I've known. this
00:13:59
Jo
God damn it.
00:14:00
Mad Ange
So, um yeah so back in the day, way back in the day, in the goth scene, it was really popular at the time to have come up with like a really, you had your goth name and it was usually like something really fucking over the top and flowery and dramatic, you know, like, I'm sure if you hung out with like vampire, the masquerade larpers, same fucking thing.
00:14:24
Mad Ange
um
00:14:24
Jo
oh okay yeah
00:14:26
Mad Ange
So yeah, you you had to have your goth name. And um somehow I came across a name and I read it wrong. And I was like, oh, I really like that name. And my one of my main nicknames from a lot of people since I was little was Angel.
00:14:41
Mad Ange
It was like one of the two fucking nicknames that everybody gave me.
00:14:43
Jo
oh i can see that i can see that you are a little angel you
00:14:45
Mad Ange
So, aww.
Filmmaking & Creative Pursuits
00:14:48
Jo
are
00:14:49
Mad Ange
Ignore all my devil horns back here Because they're all hanging Yeah and every the The good saints are sinners too So you know ah So um So it it morphed into Angelique Became the name A-N-G-U-L-I-Q-U-E
00:14:49
Jo
You are absolutely right. Well, yeah, no, I mean, every sinner's a saint, you know. But I can see. Yeah, he
00:15:03
Jo
was a bad one. Angel horn. So you did that, yeah.
00:15:12
Jo
Mm.
00:15:16
Jo
Yes, he said remembering a website now.
00:15:16
Mad Ange
So um
00:15:20
Mad Ange
So yeah, like it's Angelique. And that was my, my goth name for a while. and then when I got into fetish modeling and stuff, um I didn't want to be like Mistress Angelique, you know, it i't didn't love the ring of it.
00:15:39
Jo
Right.
00:15:40
Mad Ange
And I was like, this is not me. And ah somebody was like, you need to be Madame Angelique. And I was like, oh, Oh, that like fucking fits.
00:15:53
Mad Ange
That's super fits.
00:15:54
Jo
Oh, fuck.
00:15:54
Mad Ange
That's great. And so, yeah, that's, uh, Madame Angelique. And then when I was with my first husband, it somehow got shortened to, think I was typing.
00:16:09
Mad Ange
So I had to put like, enter my info somewhere and I could only put like the first few letters of each name.
00:16:13
Jo
Yeah.
00:16:15
Mad Ange
And I was like mad ang. And, um, oh, that's a sick pirate name. hey
00:16:22
Jo
It is.
00:16:23
Mad Ange
And it became, yeah, so it came it became Captain Mad Ange.
00:16:23
Jo
it's It's very cool, man.
00:16:28
Mad Ange
um And at that point, a fair amount of people, I couldn't find my pirate hat today, i was going wear it.
00:16:29
Jo
I'm
00:16:34
Mad Ange
um I mean, I have, like, there are several more around me, but um but yeah, so it a lot of people who were calling me Ange at that point already. um And then it it just stuck, and it was Mad Ange, Captain Mad Ange.
00:16:34
Jo
um wearing mine, but it's invisible.
00:16:52
Mad Ange
And it just evolved, evolved.
00:16:53
Jo
Captain 10.
00:16:54
Mad Ange
And then finally, um, when I got, when I got divorced the second time, uh,
00:17:04
Jo
To the same person. it was really weird. It's like, fuck you. Fuck you again.
00:17:08
Mad Ange
I think fuck it wasn't.
00:17:08
Jo
Was really the same person?
00:17:09
Mad Ange
Um, no no, no, no, no.
00:17:09
Jo
I was making that up. Please say no. Okay. Well, thank God.
00:17:11
Mad Ange
I know some stories of some people who have done that though.
00:17:11
Jo
Yeah.
00:17:14
Mad Ange
I, or maybe currently doing that. I don't know.
00:17:17
Jo
Touch wood on this, but.
00:17:18
Mad Ange
Um, the um When i when i changed my name back like When I got divorced the first time i put in that I was changing my name back But I never actually changed it Because it's easier to get on airplanes If your last name is very white um So he had a very white last name And I'm like my mom would get this hit My very white mom would get detained Going on airplanes I would not But
00:17:36
Jo
oh yes
00:17:47
Jo
walk by bye mom but I don't know her or not
00:17:48
Mad Ange
Like, ha, I'll see you on the plane. Um, well, actually there's a, there's a funny story there because, uh, when I married, when I married my, my second husband, i um, he took my last name, like he hyphenated his last name, but he took my last name.
00:17:52
Jo
or not
00:18:05
Jo
Wait, so he took your ex-husband's last name then?
00:18:07
Mad Ange
no no no, no, no, no. My, my maiden last name con con.
00:18:09
Jo
oh my Jesus cucking Christ.
00:18:10
Mad Ange
Yeah, no, cause con is a way better last name.
00:18:12
Jo
I'm sorry.
00:18:13
Mad Ange
So, um, But yeah, he, he, he, exactly. And so he he hyphenated his last name and we, I still hadn't legally changed mine yet.
00:18:26
Mad Ange
I hadn't done the paperwork, all that shit. Like it was legally changed. I just didn't change the documents. So we went to get on an airplane and guess who got detained?
00:18:31
Jo
Right.
00:18:37
Mad Ange
My very, very white sucker.
00:18:37
Jo
That buffalo.
00:18:43
Jo
But that's his own fault, though. I mean, come on.
00:18:45
Mad Ange
yeah He got detained for the same thing i was doing, which is we had our laptop batteries in our bag with the laptop and supposed to keep them like separate or whatever.
00:18:47
Jo
At this time.
00:18:58
Mad Ange
Or the charger, the charger, not the battery, but like the charger. And they were weird about it. And ah he went through after me. They stopped him. They told him, you can't do this. You have to separate these.
00:18:58
Jo
right
00:19:09
Mad Ange
But I was like, oh, do you need me to stop? Because I had done the same thing. And the guy was like, no, you just keep on going. Enjoy your flight. That was all.
00:19:15
Jo
Get on, man. This motherfucker right here, though. That's messed up.
00:19:19
Mad Ange
Bye.
00:19:19
Jo
And you just dated yourself by saying how old you are on regards to laptop batteries being A, you're correct, they used to come out.
00:19:21
Mad Ange
am...
00:19:30
Jo
The fucking power units used to detach. And B, yeah, those fucking chargers like bigger than my fucking laptop are now, man.
00:19:37
Mad Ange
ah yeah I think I aged myself, but I was on chat rooms in the 90s. Lycos. Lycos with the little dog.
00:19:44
Jo
Yeah, that's true. The AOL thing.
00:19:46
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:19:46
Jo
like oh but People are still Googling what the fuck AOL is.
00:19:47
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:19:49
Jo
They're using Ask Jeeves. Jeeves? What the fuck is AOL? Yeah, we'll AltaVista this shit.
00:19:53
Mad Ange
<unk>cose solychose with the little dog
00:19:58
Jo
Thank God. What was Hasta La Vista instead of AltaVista if you were doing like other searches. We'll leave it at that. Jesus, man. So, this circles back to what I did.
00:20:08
Mad Ange
yeah
00:20:11
Mad Ange
Oh, wait. So, so, so I, um, I finally, after, um after my divorce was finalized, I was like, I need to change my fucking name back.
00:20:12
Jo
Yeah.
00:20:15
Jo
actually.
00:20:20
Mad Ange
So I went ahead, I put in the name change paperwork and, um, was like, I I'm already changing my mate to my last name back to my maiden name. Cause I'm keeping that name. That name's great.
00:20:31
Mad Ange
Uh, but I finally went, you know what? I don't have a middle name. so I'm going to make my first name that nobody calls me by my middle name and make mad and my first name.
00:20:42
Mad Ange
And, uh, so I am legally mad. And now, you know, that I showed you my ID. You've actually seen my ID now.
00:20:50
Jo
I fucking guarded you. Yes, ma'am, I guarded you. Ain't gonna get me twice. No kidding. No one got me the first time, but I'm like, invent this. It just comes like, yeah, yeah, ID.
00:21:01
Jo
and Because you look at what you're a little bit younger. I'm like, oh, no, for reals, how old are you? Yeah, yeah, let me see your ID. Okay, you may enter. a yeah
00:21:09
Mad Ange
it You may enter.
00:21:10
Jo
Whatever we were entering in.
00:21:11
Mad Ange
wasn't in the though.
00:21:12
Jo
Whatever that was. ah We'll let the users users you hope the viewers, like, use your imagination. Just use it. It was in the 90s in Vegas. Neither of us remember. Apparently, one person remembers getting slapped. Wasn't me.
00:21:25
Jo
I'm like, and today I was thinking about this. I'm like, I don't remember this. But I'm also blacked out a lot. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It sounds like something that would happen.
00:21:36
Mad Ange
ah wasn't in the ninety s though
00:21:39
Jo
Oh, fuck. I don't remember. and Anywhere between like 91 2010, 12. and twelve
00:21:49
Mad Ange
Yeah, this would have been like between 2010, 2012, somewhere in that.
00:21:50
Jo
It's kind of black.
00:21:54
Jo
Yeah, it' it's...
00:21:54
Mad Ange
Between 2000 or maybe 16, I don't know, somewhere.
00:21:55
Jo
I
00:21:59
Mad Ange
There's a range.
00:21:59
Jo
know. It sounds... Yeah, like it's like the whole blackness of it all, man. I just remember like places where I was living. That's all I kind of like... sort of remember and recall, but, but, but, but.
00:22:11
Mad Ange
I have a really good memory, um weirdly, like,
00:22:15
Jo
up
00:22:18
Mad Ange
Even like sometimes when i when I forget stuff, um something will like trigger it at some point. i'll I'll be reading something or I'll hear a song and I'm like... And the full memories will come back.
00:22:28
Jo
Right.
00:22:29
Mad Ange
Colors, names, places, times in some cases. I'm like, oh shit. Dates. I remember dates really well.
00:22:35
Jo
Yeah, if you want them to or not.
00:22:37
Mad Ange
So...
00:22:37
Jo
Yeah, if you want to or not. and And that gets to my next question, because it's it's one of those things.
Book Publishing & Writing Identity
00:22:44
Jo
I'm not sure when I was aware of this, but talking to you now, it seems that our circles like kept going like this, nearly missing, nearly missing, nearly missing for a very long time.
00:22:58
Jo
Because if you were doing the AOL online, and I definitely was for that period time, sort of, and then you did fetish modeling, and then I... Shit, okay.
00:23:11
Jo
If I said Imaggio Studios, would that ring a bell for you? Or Imaggio? I can't really say their fucking name.
00:23:16
Mad Ange
No.
00:23:18
Jo
More Bondi-gy, okay.
00:23:20
Mad Ange
No.
00:23:21
Jo
Or there was a Pornhouse.
00:23:23
Mad Ange
I...
00:23:25
Jo
Sorry.
00:23:25
Mad Ange
No, no, there was there was a lot of hornhouses.
00:23:26
Jo
ah There were a lot of corn houses. Yeah.
00:23:30
Mad Ange
I mean, probably shouldn't mention this, but, you know, well, here, we're going to raise my hand now.
00:23:31
Jo
But you can be old. No.
00:23:37
Mad Ange
um I worked the...
00:23:38
Jo
Okay. You want me to to cut this one out or keep it in?
00:23:41
Mad Ange
See, I, um... used to probably cut this out, but I managed, like, every escort service and in Vegas. I was a pimp for a long time. So...
00:23:52
Jo
PIMP.
00:23:54
Mad Ange
It's why I was a getaway driver for a time. but
00:24:00
Jo
And people are like, oh, that's really weird. I didn't know you actually were on McDonald's at the McDonald's Playland house. That's interesting.
00:24:08
Mad Ange
Right.
00:24:10
Jo
And see, that's how we get around that. People are like, what the fuck are they talking about?
00:24:12
Mad Ange
No, a lot of like the fetish work and stuff I did, like it wasn't really like U.S.
00:24:15
Jo
As I write down the timestamp on the board.
00:24:22
Mad Ange
based a lot of it like um i did a lot of stuff through through my own website but um magazines and stuff that i was in were mostly like i had a huge following in like germany and austria austria i think was my biggest following yeah i did a lot of um i mostly did smoking fetish um yeah i was i was a non-nude fetish model that an award-winning one hey ah and um
00:24:28
Jo
Right.
00:24:35
Jo
Really? Good for you.
00:24:40
Jo
Okay, that makes more sense now. Okay.
00:24:48
Jo
Look at you. The
00:24:51
Mad Ange
And so, yeah, I did a lot of stuff for like magazines overseas. So.
00:24:56
Jo
that's That's decent. And I think, especially at that time, most of our clients were like, I'm not going to get him and killed. like It was basically Saudi, like ah a lot of of kingdom clans and stuff like that, because the more, the more physically repressed the country's laws are, the more they're going to seek it somewhere else.
00:25:07
Mad Ange
Hmm.
00:25:19
Jo
And that's what the internet allowed people to do. That's exactly like, Oh, it can go this way.
00:25:22
Mad Ange
I mean, was raised in Pakistan, so, you know.
00:25:30
Jo
Imagine that. Imagine. Absolutely.
00:25:32
Mad Ange
i turned out this turned out fine between Pakistan and Vegas.
00:25:33
Jo
as
00:25:36
Mad Ange
I'm just a wholesome Pakistani girl.
00:25:37
Jo
Yeah. It's a great fucking combination of Callaloo.
00:25:40
Mad Ange
Hmm.
00:25:42
Jo
It's the average right there. But that's its what we're going for. And it's one of those, man, non-nude. People don't understand like how much. It's not like a lot of people with a little bit money. It's one or two people with a lot of money who want these.
00:25:55
Jo
And it's just like, bam, I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this.
00:25:56
Mad Ange
Oh yeah.
00:25:58
Jo
And it's usually, yeah, like non-nude. Back then, you can make a killing non-nude. I'm not sure what the market is now. I haven't i haven't looked for a reason, so I don't want to get back into like...
00:26:07
Mad Ange
um I was actually discussing this with somebody the other night at the award show. She was talking to me.
00:26:11
Jo
How is the... Okay, now now I want to know. wanna The Bazaoui Awards, 2026, by the way.
00:26:14
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:26:16
Jo
Check it out.
00:26:17
Mad Ange
Yeah. It was a great time. um Host was kind of weird, but but the girl was good.
00:26:21
Jo
I love it. Ah, fucker. yeah Yes, Christy and Lionel are amazing.
00:26:25
Mad Ange
but
00:26:27
Jo
I get it.
00:26:29
Mad Ange
ah You were a great host.
00:26:29
Jo
that one out too.
00:26:30
Mad Ange
No, you were you were a really good host.
00:26:32
Jo
Yeah.
00:26:32
Mad Ange
so You should come back and and host more things.
00:26:34
Jo
Cool.
00:26:39
Jo
oh you know
00:26:39
Mad Ange
But no, I was talking to a girl about it there. Cause she was like, why aren't you still doing stuff? You should get back into it. And I was talking to her about what I was, what I used to do. And she was like, oh yeah, no, like drop me a message. We're going to talk.
00:26:52
Mad Ange
um So that's a possibility. I've been talking to a few people about a few things, but like, I like, like I have nothing to against nudity. I love nudity. Great.
00:27:04
Mad Ange
um
00:27:04
Jo
Right.
00:27:05
Mad Ange
But for me personally, like it's,
00:27:06
Jo
either.
00:27:10
Mad Ange
I like the tease of it. I mean, I was also a burlesque performer for 10 years.
00:27:14
Jo
Yeah, I'll say that goes the burlesque part.
00:27:14
Mad Ange
um um But I mean, this is like long before I did burlesque, more than a decade before I did burlesque. um Because I mean, 10 year anniversary of doing burlesque was like two years ago, a year and a half ago. So.
00:27:32
Jo
So it's before that, wait, were you, okay. Were you a legal age to do the non-nude modeling? It is non-nude, but it was still sexually proactive and that sometimes blurs it.
00:27:39
Mad Ange
Yes.
00:27:41
Mad Ange
Yeah, I didn't start until I was after after I turned 18.
00:27:43
Jo
Yeah, okay.
00:27:47
Jo
Okay.
00:27:47
Mad Ange
um But I...
00:27:48
Jo
So you weren't doing a Tracy Lord.
00:27:50
Mad Ange
No, I almost said that.
00:27:51
Jo
yeah
00:27:52
Mad Ange
um
00:27:53
Jo
mean, she was brilliant for it though.
00:27:55
Mad Ange
The... I like to tease, but I also like, you know, I have my specific... um want to say like fetishes or kinks because kind of, but not really where, um, you know, there's specific things that I just love, like stockings and garters.
00:28:10
Jo
Right.
00:28:14
Mad Ange
That's like probably one of the highest ones.
00:28:15
Jo
Right.
00:28:16
Mad Ange
Like you see a hot girl in stockings and garters smoking a cigarette, like, Oh my God. Like, right.
00:28:22
Jo
It's back to the fucking 50s.
00:28:24
Mad Ange
And like, just that, just that,
00:28:25
Jo
Like that was like, it's the whole, yeah.
00:28:27
Mad Ange
That glimpse of it, you know, of like, you know, a skirt hikes up just a little bit and there's just that little line of fabric in the skin. And it's like, just that, like, but that's what I love.
00:28:38
Mad Ange
I'm like, oh, fuck, that's hot.
00:28:39
Jo
Is it because... Okay, I agree, but most of my porno was like the JCPenney's catalog growing up, you know i mean?
00:28:47
Mad Ange
Okay.
00:28:48
Jo
Because we didn't have...
00:28:48
Mad Ange
Yeah. Okay.
00:28:49
Jo
like You could probably get Playboy once in a while, but the most consistent thing was basically fucking the Sears lingerie. Like Sears catalog, JCPenney's, Montgomery Wharf, now I'm really dating myself. These places don't fucking exist anymore.
00:29:01
Mad Ange
Montgomery one is, I think there is still one somewhere.
00:29:01
Jo
And so are you... Somewhere.
00:29:05
Mad Ange
Somewhere.
00:29:05
Jo
I just want the catalogs.
00:29:06
Mad Ange
I believe there is one.
00:29:08
Mad Ange
no
00:29:08
Jo
okay
00:29:08
Jo
But are you the liking this certain thing because that is the era you grew up in? i mean, I know we both had nudity around, but...
00:29:17
Mad Ange
No, I think, um, I grew enamored with like twenties through forties type aesthetics.
00:29:25
Jo
a
00:29:26
Mad Ange
Um,
00:29:27
Jo
Yeah.
00:29:27
Mad Ange
Um, and I also, i think also part of it too, was growing up in Pakistan was the like opposite of that.
00:29:30
Jo
I see that.
00:29:35
Mad Ange
Everyone's wearing pants or, you know, the equivalent of pants all the time.
00:29:39
Jo
Right.
00:29:39
Mad Ange
So you didn't really get things like lingerie and stuff, at least not that kind. Um, or at least it wasn't like a known quantity, you know, like, or a known entity, but it, um,
00:29:55
Mad Ange
Yeah, I don't know. Something about it. I always thought it was like, it was just really pretty.
00:30:01
Jo
It is. No, I mean, it's, i agree.
00:30:02
Mad Ange
And.
00:30:04
Jo
It's something aesthetically about it. There's some aesthetics about it where if you see sheer nudity, sheer nudity is great. I'm i'm not, ah you know, we both like it, I think. It's just, God, there's something artistic.
00:30:17
Mad Ange
Right. There's something artistic about it. Like, yeah like ah like, like a hiked up skirt. With stockings and garters.
00:30:26
Jo
Yeah.
00:30:27
Mad Ange
like That's so fucking hot. To me that's so hotter so much hotter than like. Hey I'm just fully naked. like It's like no no no. Just just flip up the skirt.
00:30:36
Jo
A good baby doll.
00:30:37
Mad Ange
Stockings, garters.
00:30:37
Jo
I mean, yeah.
00:30:39
Mad Ange
Ugh.
00:30:41
Jo
And that's Vegas 101. It really, like, if you're describing Vegas, that's what it is.
00:30:44
Mad Ange
Okay. That also could be. Well, that could be part of it, too, because, I mean, I didn't i didn't go to Pakistan until I was, like, almost seven. So I grew up going to, like, showgirl shows and stuff before that.
00:30:57
Jo
Okay.
00:30:58
Mad Ange
And ah we would end up sometimes in the late shows where it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be you know, 21 over or whatever, but, like, when you know people who...
00:31:07
Jo
to Sandra Peterson.
00:31:09
Mad Ange
when you know people who run the shows and you're part of that, like, I grew up kind of on the the inside industry part of Vegas casinos um because of what my dad did for work.
00:31:12
Jo
Right.
00:31:17
Jo
Right.
00:31:20
Mad Ange
So we it would be like, yeah, come to the 11 o'clock show, bring the kids. And remember my mom being like, you're going to see naked women.
00:31:27
Jo
We're kid-friendly now.
00:31:30
Mad Ange
I just, I need to explain this to you. Like, And her very like just trying to explain it to me. and I'm like, okay, and, and you know, it was hot.
00:31:42
Jo
like, I can see that in the mirror right now. I wanted to.
00:31:44
Mad Ange
Right. ah But, you know, it was just like there was something alluring about it. The costumes, um as you can tell, I don't know if you can see them, all the feathers back here.
00:31:49
Jo
Yeah.
00:31:54
Mad Ange
i also really like feathers.
00:31:55
Jo
A feather boa.
00:31:57
Mad Ange
um
00:31:58
Jo
Feathers cool.
00:31:58
Mad Ange
You know, like the headdresses, the the the sparkles, the costumes and and the fishnets and the like, I don't know.
00:32:09
Jo
that no it attracts and I think that's why like razor candy was always special for me because she just nails that look again and again and again she used to make her own shit I'm not sure where she's doing right now though and and when I'm seeing you I do remember a lot of those photos also bathtubs like my memory is like I gotta look spotty spotty spotty so I like only glimpses like etch-a-scratches
00:32:17
Mad Ange
I
00:32:28
Mad Ange
was gonna say the bathtub photo. Oh yeah.
00:32:35
Jo
So I do remember like that and like you, you had, you had more than a few fishnets, right?
00:32:43
Mad Ange
so yeah
00:32:43
Jo
On that site. Yeah.
00:32:45
Mad Ange
um The bathtub photo, though, is my favorite. It's probably my all time favorite photo. Like, it's not even like the best photo.
00:32:51
Jo
Really?
00:32:51
Mad Ange
I just I just fucking love that photo. Like, I would love to recreate that one. um
00:32:59
Jo
And again, non-nude.
00:33:01
Mad Ange
Right.
00:33:02
Mad Ange
Technically, I was nude for that shoot, but it's tasteful.
00:33:02
Jo
These are all non-nude.
00:33:04
Jo
What? no nuts Yeah, you were ah blocking it.
00:33:08
Mad Ange
Yeah. It was hidden.
00:33:10
Jo
Oh
00:33:11
Mad Ange
Um, I mean, even like, so I became a real estate agent because, you know, like you fucking do. Um, this is, this is tangentially related. Uh, I became a real estate agent because my mom got to die to mortgage and I wanted to know how the system worked.
00:33:27
Mad Ange
So I breezed through the fucking course, I think nine days.
00:33:28
Jo
wow.
00:33:32
Mad Ange
Yeah. Start to finish. I did the entire course and then went to California to get my license. But while I was out there, I went to the beach and I was in fishnet stockings and my garters running around in the ocean.
00:33:45
Mad Ange
And there's some pictures of that.
00:33:46
Jo
Oh wow.
00:33:47
Mad Ange
Hi, Alia.
00:33:49
Jo
You got freckles from it.
00:33:49
Mad Ange
ah
00:33:51
Jo
Hello kitty kitty. Hello.
00:33:52
Mad Ange
Yeah, this is this is the little one.
00:33:53
Jo
Hello.
00:33:56
Mad Ange
This is Alia.
00:33:59
Mad Ange
She's like, oh, am I missing? Am I missing time on the camera?
00:34:05
Jo
like ah Just keep hitting there.
00:34:05
Mad Ange
No chickens.
00:34:07
Jo
I'm fine.
00:34:08
Mad Ange
No, I tossed her on the floor. But, you know, so it's still a thing that I, it's still a thing that I do where I'm just like, no, I'm going to run around in water in my fishnets.
00:34:11
Jo
Good dog.
00:34:20
Mad Ange
They get very heavy when they get wet.
00:34:20
Jo
I'm jealous.
00:34:22
Mad Ange
You can do it too.
00:34:23
Jo
Well, of my fucking thighs?
00:34:23
Mad Ange
What's stopping you?
00:34:27
Jo
i can wear I can barely wear normal-sized pants or trousers because, like, you know, hello, thighs. Hello, thighs and calves, apparently.
00:34:39
Jo
Sorry.
00:34:39
Mad Ange
I, um, no, we got, we got, you'll fit in my fishnets.
00:34:40
Jo
Phrasing? Okay. Okay.
00:34:44
Mad Ange
Come on. Let's go. Let's go to the beach.
00:34:47
Jo
Next time I'm there, next time I'm there, I'm getting your fishnets one way or the other.
00:34:47
Mad Ange
All all right.
00:34:51
Jo
ah wait, what? Okay. Oh, this this one got risque.
00:34:54
Mad Ange
All right. We, we got, we got the camera right here. We're all ready. Ready to shoot.
00:35:01
Jo
Fuck, man.
00:35:02
Mad Ange
but
00:35:03
Jo
Okay, I did. At one point, I'm like, you know what, if I ever go back to Camparn, I'm using my same old name. And I'll do like a book like the rise and fall of.
00:35:11
Mad Ange
yeah
00:35:14
Jo
That'd be great. because I would get so fucking smoked on camp right now. Like, you have no idea how much people, how much fucking talented people are. I'm like, back in my day, I was just like, tits, ass, you got a dick? Cool, let's go.
00:35:27
Jo
You know, and I was like, fuck.
00:35:27
Mad Ange
No, i just, I see what my friends do and what my roommates over the years do.
00:35:29
Jo
I had like, learn to play piano? fuck
00:35:35
Mad Ange
And I'm just like, yeah Yeah, I can hold the camera for you because obviously there's this needs to be captured from many angles. Hold on. Hold on.
00:35:44
Jo
Yeah.
00:35:44
Mad Ange
Let me grab my camera.
00:35:45
Jo
it's it's just It's just amazing fucking talent. And then we'll go into naturally, I've seen your shorts. Movies. Both.
00:35:56
Jo
but I met movies.
00:35:58
Mad Ange
Did I sent you the first one?
00:35:58
Jo
What? you so You sent me...
00:36:03
Mad Ange
i know I sent you the second one.
00:36:03
Jo
It looked like...
00:36:05
Mad Ange
I didn't know if I'd sent the first one to anybody.
00:36:09
Jo
well, maybe I just kind of like went in there and, you know, did my thing.
00:36:09
Mad Ange
I may have.
00:36:14
Jo
Is the mic who's to pick up that a lot?
00:36:16
Mad Ange
You just ah poked around in there until you found it.
00:36:20
Jo
ah Yeah. Although technically the i I showed the photo from, no, I did not show the photo from the Czech Republic. I found it. It was right there on the wall all the time.
00:36:28
Mad Ange
Yeah. and
00:36:29
Jo
Yeah. It's like it was right there. I'll show you the photo later. But no, no, no. I do remember it was i want to say the movie that maps my mind is Dead Men and Don't Wear a Plaid.
00:36:42
Jo
That's what I kind of mapped it right that. So it's um like this it's the noir, you know, mash, right?
00:36:47
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:36:48
Jo
Not quite the math.
00:36:48
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:36:49
Mad Ange
the the
00:36:49
Jo
No, that's not quite it.
00:36:50
Jo
Yeah.
00:36:50
Mad Ange
The usual intrusions, which is like that name came to me so randomly. i was like, I need name. And then that name came into my head and i was like, that's our working title. We're going with it. And then I loved it and kept it.
00:37:03
Mad Ange
yeah
00:37:03
Jo
I love that. I love that. Are you going to do more? Are you doing more? i want more.
00:37:07
Mad Ange
So, I mean, I'll give you more.
00:37:11
Mad Ange
ah
00:37:11
Jo
don't know.
00:37:12
Jo
Are you? Okay.
00:37:14
Mad Ange
I want to do more. We had kind of mapped out a second one because I actually was going to do the plot thin ends, which is the one that was that I teased at the end.
00:37:26
Mad Ange
um It's kind of up in the air right now because... ah the person I, the well, the person who wrote it, um, I was, I was in film school and I knew I wanted to do a parody noir for one of them.
00:37:40
Jo
Right.
00:37:41
Mad Ange
And, um, my, my fiance at the time loves old noirs and old movies and stuff. That's like his wheelhouse. Um, and so he i was like, come up with a story and he wrote me a script and then we workshopped it.
00:37:58
Mad Ange
And, Went back and forth and then like, okay, cool. It was great script. I'm going it. The filming was a nightmare shit show.
00:38:10
Jo
Imagine that.
00:38:10
Mad Ange
We filmed it in less than two hours.
00:38:13
Jo
Nice.
00:38:13
Mad Ange
And in an escape room, the entire thing is filmed inside of an escape room. um
00:38:18
Jo
can get out for two hours.
00:38:21
Mad Ange
And these, I had a, I wanted a second camera for it. because my first film, I was just a single camera. But this, I was like, between the limited amount of time we have and a bunch of other reasons, like I need a second camera.
00:38:27
Jo
Yeah.
00:38:33
Mad Ange
So I got another camera guy from the school. Like, yeah, we I need you. i need camera, lights, whatever. I gave him a list. He showed up in the morning to filming and was like, i was like, okay, cool. Where's your camera? And he's like, oh, I didn't bring one.
00:38:47
Mad Ange
I saw that you already had one because you said you did. And ah so I figured you didn't need a second one. And I'm like,
00:38:53
Jo
Literally the opposite what I fucking said.
00:38:57
Mad Ange
So, and he was driving me up the wall. I made him go sit in another room while we filmed, but I had a second light at least. So that was good. Cause we're at school. We're only allowed to take out one light at a time.
00:39:08
Mad Ange
So now we had two lights. Yay. Um, yeah, I know fancy.
00:39:12
Jo
You doubled it.
00:39:13
Mad Ange
So, and then I, and then basically, basically,
00:39:14
Jo
With the construction lights? Uh huh.
00:39:18
Jo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:20
Mad Ange
But the, ah we went to go start filming and I went to get everything ready and I didn't have the memory card. It was a across town at home. And we now, we were supposed to have like four or five hours, but then um somebody booked an early escape room, like before they were open.
00:39:28
Jo
Oh fuck
00:39:37
Mad Ange
But I guess the owner approved it or whatever. Yeah.
00:39:40
Jo
Oh wow V-
00:39:41
Mad Ange
So now I'm like, oh, fuck. So I had to jump in my car, fly across, to like 90, just cross down. I'm also on like two hours of sleep. So I am just not there.
00:39:55
Mad Ange
Run in grab the thing, ah the memory card, run back, get down there. It's hot. I run in. I'm just like, okay, let's fucking do this. And I didn't storyboard this one. i always storyboard my shit. I didn't storyboard this one because they wanted us to use shot lists.
00:40:12
Mad Ange
I mean, I did, I did storyboard I just didn't bring them on a big board. Like I like having it on a big board to go, these are the shots we need. Let's pull them down as we're done.
00:40:12
Jo
Okay.
00:40:20
Jo
This is what have to do it is to order.
00:40:21
Mad Ange
Yeah. So, but I'm like, okay, we have a shot list. Well, I missed half the shots cause I was so stressed out and tired. And i kind of was just, I was irritated with almost everybody that day. Um,
00:40:38
Mad Ange
That's not true. But I was irritated with more than one person that day. And then we got back. I started editing. i In the editing, I saw that we were missing shots and scenes and stuff.
00:40:53
Mad Ange
So then we had to rewrite the script to kind of fit it. Because it was supposed to be no synced audio for this. So it was just a narration.
00:40:59
Jo
Right. Really?
00:41:00
Mad Ange
So I'm like, yeah, we got it we got to cut out like a whole section. And we have to tweak that. t tweet And so that was a whole back and forth process. um But we got it done. And we recorded the voiceover in my downstairs closet. um Got that all done. And I liked how it came out. But...
00:41:22
Mad Ange
There was a couple of little things I would have liked to have fixed on it.
00:41:25
Jo
really
00:41:26
Mad Ange
Yeah. But my teacher did ah recommend it for the school showcase. ah So it was recommended for the showcase. It didn't get in But even the fact that it was recommended for like a first year video student, um first semester video student was like, yeah.
00:41:43
Jo
It's pretty good. Yeah, no, that's a good good accomplishment, honestly.
00:41:47
Mad Ange
So, so I do want to do, a I do maybe eventually want to do a followup, but I don't know when, because I need to talk to my, my now ex fiance about it and be like, you still want to do this.
00:41:48
Jo
It's a win.
00:42:02
Mad Ange
Do you still have the the notes we wrote?
00:42:06
Jo
Just recast it.
00:42:06
Mad Ange
He's the one, he played the the the detective. Are you going to come be my detective?
00:42:12
Jo
I could be a detective. Fuck yeah.
00:42:14
Mad Ange
Okay. Come be my detective. Come be my dick.
00:42:18
Mad Ange
this
00:42:18
Jo
I'll be your dick.
00:42:19
Jo
I'll wear assless chaps.
00:42:21
Mad Ange
All right.
00:42:23
Jo
The entire time. You have to shoot me from the waist up though.
00:42:28
Mad Ange
the ah So i did actually I did actually start doing a third movie in my second semester of video class.
00:42:28
Jo
Until the end.
00:42:37
Mad Ange
um And that one, I was so excited for it. I was so excited for Oh, my God.
00:42:41
Jo
okay
00:42:42
Mad Ange
That story, i'm so I'm still hyped for it. I still want to make it. People flew in from out of town to be in it. Like, it was great. But ah kind of was, I was dealing with a lot of life stuff and, uh, I was very stressed out and overwhelmed.
00:42:54
Jo
but
00:42:57
Jo
okay
00:43:02
Mad Ange
I failed most of my classes that semester. Um, I think I audited two of them and failed two of them. It was a bad semester and yeah, so that, that was really kind of sad.
00:43:18
Mad Ange
Um, I even have like, I don't to say merch, but we have like ephemera for promoting the third movie that we didn't make. yeah
00:43:28
Jo
Fucking put it out. You can the third movie, yes, but print the merch out. And then be like, Space Spouse, the sequel for longest time.
00:43:34
Mad Ange
Oh, I have it. I have it downstairs. We have bumper stickers and one says, um, sin responsibly. And the other one says, keep, keep Vegas simple.
00:43:42
Jo
Love it.
00:43:45
Mad Ange
So, fit but yeah.
00:43:45
Jo
See? Wait, wait, wait, wait. What's keeping from making the movie now? The third one.
00:43:51
Mad Ange
I don't have the equipment.
00:43:53
Mad Ange
but That's it.
00:43:57
Mad Ange
Oh, my phone is a potato. but My camera is not great. I can do some filming on this. um The third one requires a lot of scenes in... um Like, there's way more places.
00:44:09
Mad Ange
There's way more locations. ah There's a lot of them.
00:44:11
Jo
Okay.
00:44:13
Mad Ange
The end of the movie and would have ended up with us having, like, a hundred and something people outside of the Double Down. Like...
00:44:22
Jo
Okay.
00:44:23
Mad Ange
Um, which Moss was great with.
00:44:24
Jo
Okay.
00:44:25
Mad Ange
He was like, yeah, just come on down. Just, it was gonna be like a Monday afternoon, and Monday evening. Like, hey, we're gonna come down there and just film in the parking lot for this shot. Uh, I really want a drone shot, though, for that, kind of, just because of the way I want that shot to look, but whatever. Which, I mean, I can get one from the school, but.
00:44:45
Jo
Get the drone. Get it now. Fly it above.
00:44:48
Mad Ange
I'm probably going to go back to that class, take it again ah in spring of next year. So, yeah.
00:44:56
Jo
Get the resources. Use those resources, man. Absolutely.
00:45:00
Mad Ange
um You know, so there's, there's, and I do have more people that collaborating with now on projects and working with, um you know, I'm working with I'm kind of sort of working on a documentary right now.
00:45:07
Jo
Good.
00:45:13
Mad Ange
It's kind of on hold at the moment. while funding is figured out because the dude who's doing it wants to pay us for our work now.
00:45:24
Mad Ange
Which, I mean, im yeah, I know it's weird.
00:45:24
Jo
Oh, imagine that.
00:45:26
Mad Ange
um Getting paid to do creative work. what But, well, it was being, it was actually for something and then the funding kind of fell through because it took so long to get done.
00:45:29
Jo
What's that? Exposure.
00:45:37
Mad Ange
So...
00:45:40
Jo
That happens. No, I mean, honestly, that happens sometimes more than not if if ah the funding's there only for a limited time. And if that time's not struck, then it's just like, goodbye.
00:45:52
Jo
It walks away to someone else.
00:45:52
Mad Ange
Which is why I got, ah yeah, I got brought on to keep the project on track and just yell at everybody and be like, what are we doing?
00:45:58
Jo
What
00:45:59
Mad Ange
What are we doing? What are we doing? Because like the main dude doing it is very much like, let me tell you this idea.
00:46:01
Jo
are we doing today?
00:46:07
Mad Ange
And we're like, we know what the fuck we're doing. We know the idea. we have all the stuff for the movie thing.
00:46:10
Jo
Going.
00:46:12
Mad Ange
What are we filming today? What is the first thing that needs to be done?
00:46:14
Jo
Yeah.
00:46:15
Mad Ange
And he's like, okay, well, let me tell you the premise. I don't fucking need to know the premise a hundred times.
00:46:18
Jo
Nope.
00:46:18
Mad Ange
I have it on my phone.
00:46:19
Jo
Just give me the shot.
00:46:21
Mad Ange
But he's a great guy. um He's just very excited and he's very passionate about the project and wants everything to be just right. And we're like, perfect the enemy of good.
00:46:30
Jo
Of course.
00:46:31
Mad Ange
Perfect to the enemy i good.
00:46:32
Mad Ange
We just have to get it fucking done right now. and We can make it better later.
00:46:32
Jo
Yep.
00:46:34
Jo
Get it on film.
00:46:35
Mad Ange
And I can edit and make it look good.
00:46:37
Jo
Yeah.
00:46:38
Mad Ange
Like, I was also going to help with editing because I can edit shit and make it look good.
00:46:41
Jo
Fix it in post.
00:46:42
Mad Ange
I will fix it in post. Everything can be fixed in post.
00:46:45
Jo
Yeah. Coming back to the conversation.
00:46:48
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:46:48
Jo
Absolutely. Almost everything, except for that one time stamp right there. I'm going erase it. I don't know what happened to it. it Nothing gets fixed in post nowadays. But that's that's exactly it. Like, What was the... Right.
00:47:03
Jo
i remember when 28 Days Later came out. This was the first one. They're really shooting on digital cameras and for a fucking theatrical release. We're like, how's that going to look? look Because used to be like, holy shit, it looks good.
00:47:16
Jo
And that was one major hurdle of anyone who wanted make a movie, gone. Like just a fucking film, the actual physical film doesn't have to be there anymore. And then became, I've seen a movie done with two iPhones that was fixed to shit out of in post, but still done with two iPhones.
00:47:32
Mad Ange
Right
00:47:32
Jo
I'm like, well shit, that's so last another hurdle right there, gone. And now it's just a matter like, how how much do you want to get on If you have any type of equipment at all, and even like the the the fucking Nikons and shit like that, they have decent fucking movie abilities.
00:47:36
Mad Ange
Right no
00:47:47
Mad Ange
Well, i'll be I'll be working on more creative projects that involve video coming up. I have have a really big project actually that I'm really excited about, but I don't want to talk about it on here yet.
00:47:59
Mad Ange
so
00:47:59
Jo
Okay. na
00:48:00
Mad Ange
um But I will have to tell you about it later because it's I'm very excited for it. It's insane. And it's going to be just like a passion project.
00:48:07
Jo
Big bird up whose ass? Oh my God.
00:48:09
Mad Ange
and
00:48:09
Jo
Oh, sorry. We cut that part out. You have no idea what we're talking about, people.
00:48:12
Mad Ange
but
00:48:12
Jo
It's definitely not big birds up someone's ass. Sorry.
00:48:16
Mad Ange
Not at all.
00:48:16
Jo
Or is it?
00:48:17
Mad Ange
I remember Thanksgiving.
00:48:18
Jo
Maybe, maybe not. Oh, you know.
00:48:20
Mad Ange
yes but
00:48:21
Jo
Oh, wait. That was something else. I was going back somewhere else.
00:48:24
Mad Ange
But you know, in the meantime, I'm in the meantime i'm um'm focusing more on art and writing with general art, painting, painting.
00:48:34
Jo
Rutten.
00:48:35
Mad Ange
Painting. There's one of my paintings. um
00:48:38
Jo
Loves it.
00:48:39
Mad Ange
You know, ah doing more writing.
00:48:40
Jo
Loves it.
00:48:42
Mad Ange
I'm working on, so i put this book out last year. Ephemeronomicon. It is a, like, it's huge.
00:48:48
Jo
Damn.
00:48:50
Mad Ange
It's to say the same, the same weighs like two and three quarters pounds.
00:48:51
Jo
Yeah, they can kill someone with that shit.
00:48:56
Mad Ange
like um It's like, um,
00:48:56
Jo
Jesus. and That's a soft cover.
00:49:00
Mad Ange
Yeah, we do have them in hardcover, but I couldn't get one in time for doing promo. I made this book in 10 days, okay?
00:49:05
Jo
Ah.
00:49:06
Mad Ange
From concept to published was 10 days.
00:49:08
Jo
Holy shit.
00:49:09
Mad Ange
So, um, it's, I mean, it's so what it is, is it's a, um, like, it like in, if you're practicing the occult in any way, you tend to have like a, like what's called a magical diary and it's just a journal and you, one part journal, one part, hey, I'm going to keep track of all my workings, blah, blah, blah, all that.
00:49:23
Jo
Right.
00:49:27
Jo
Right.
00:49:28
Mad Ange
So, um, ah there's an occult YouTuber that I love named Billy Brujo. And he wanted to put one out for God, a long time for at least 10 years. um He wanted to put one out, but he was like, Oh, I can't, I just don't have like the resources or the know the knowledge or the know-how or the focus maybe to do it um at this time.
00:49:54
Mad Ange
And I was like, Oh, I make journals and day planners. Like, hold on one second. And so he drew up some specs of what he wanted and gave me a list of some things. And then together 10 days, we worked on it like nonstop pretty much.
00:50:11
Jo
It's cool.
00:50:12
Mad Ange
um So yeah, I mean, no, it is cool because like, you probably can't see it on here, but i should go to a page I haven't written. It's got like monthly...
00:50:22
Jo
Page it up, writing all over.
00:50:24
Mad Ange
it's got like It's got, like, these, like, monthly calendars in it that have, like, holidays.
00:50:28
Jo
Oh, cool.
00:50:28
Mad Ange
And it's got, it's got like, a ton of holidays.
00:50:31
Jo
Yeah.
00:50:32
Mad Ange
um But it's got, like, moon phases. It has, like, what's going on with, like, Mercury? Is it in retrograde again? The Mercury done gone in a Gatorade.
00:50:38
Jo
That's decent, man.
00:50:38
Mad Ange
There it is. um And so it has this whole thing. But then, like, you get into the actual pages and it'll be, like... oh you know here's like the daily planet um day date and then it's got like whatever holiday over here it shows where the sun and moon what sign they're in and if there's any pertinent astrological stuff it's in here so if there's like a meteor shower eclipse anything it's noted in there and then there's like room to write obviously um
00:50:51
Jo
Right.
00:51:01
Jo
It's in the leisure. Cool.
00:51:08
Jo
Which is what we need. And that's actually one of the harder parts is just sticking to it and get the format in.
00:51:15
Mad Ange
Right. And then like the back has all these like charts and things that I made of like, when are the planetary hours and how do you calculate them? Um, here's like different astrological charts, including one you can like print off like photocopy and, and there's, yeah, there's so, and then there's like miscellaneous blank pages with different styles, graph paper and shit.
00:51:28
Jo
You must do it now.
00:51:36
Jo
Right, because he allows them to throw it in and how they need to then.
00:51:36
Mad Ange
Um,
00:51:40
Mad Ange
Right. So it's like people can just come to this book, grab what they need to photocopy, what you know, do their writing every day um cetera.
00:51:41
Jo
Yeah.
00:51:47
Jo
Yeah.
00:51:47
Mad Ange
So we were working on the second edition. It was, I've done, so I have an, i have an imprint off of Crafty Bat called Crafty Bat Books. And I started that, yeah, the Crafty Bat, my main company.
00:51:56
Jo
Crocky pots.
00:51:59
Mad Ange
We turned 12 this year. oh Crafty Bat. Yeah,
00:52:03
Jo
Oh, wow. That must have been like... That's kind of
00:52:07
Mad Ange
yeah I started it in 2014, May 1st. Um, belting.
00:52:11
Jo
rough. hu That's an anniversary for me. I was like, ah ha yeah, okay. Nice date.
00:52:22
Mad Ange
but
00:52:22
Jo
Nice date you have there.
00:52:23
Mad Ange
it's, it's, it's belting. Um, so I, um, but I was doing some books I've done. i did actually some books for like performers and burlesque performers and showrunners.
00:52:36
Jo
Cool.
00:52:38
Mad Ange
um where they could like keep track of like shows they've got coming. up They're really cool books.
00:52:41
Jo
Yeah.
00:52:42
Mad Ange
um And I did like a homeowner handbook. The homeowner handbook is the most insane book I've made. It's, I made it while I was bored in real estate class.
00:52:54
Mad Ange
And it's basically a book.
00:52:55
Jo
use
00:52:57
Mad Ange
It's like a it's like a book that catalogs everything in your house. So as you like buy a house and you go through, it's like, how many balances do we have in this room and how big are they? Let's measure them. what What's the paint number code, the brand and the finish.
00:53:10
Mad Ange
And like, it's, it's a pretty big book and you just know all of that stuff.
00:53:10
Jo
Yeah.
00:53:14
Mad Ange
You can do like layouts of your floor plans and stuff. um It's got emergency checklists and all kinds of stuff. But ah it's a really cool book and I'm updating it right now to make a hardcover version.
00:53:23
Jo
We need that, honestly.
00:53:27
Jo
yeah
00:53:31
Mad Ange
yeah, i So I started Crafty Bat Books to put those out under. And then this was my first sort of stepping into the occult space book.
00:53:41
Jo
think this is interesting
00:53:43
Mad Ange
So we've got a couple other books planned, but right now we're trying to get the 2027 version of this done because I want that out in June. So I have time to start contacting bookstores.
00:53:55
Mad Ange
And because there's some stores that actually did carry this book too, like physical brokenn but brick and mortar brook.
00:53:59
Jo
very cool they still exist
00:54:02
Mad Ange
but Yeah. Um, so I'm, I'm trying to get it into like, you know, psychic eye and, and stuff like that. um
00:54:09
Jo
Amber unicorn. That still exists.
00:54:12
Mad Ange
no, I meant to tell you that I meant to tell you that the other night every unicorn, and
00:54:14
Jo
Really?
00:54:18
Jo
No more?
00:54:19
Mad Ange
ah Lou, you remember Lou, the, the old man.
00:54:23
Jo
Vaguely. Yeah. Yes.
00:54:25
Mad Ange
Yeah. he he passed away on Halloween, I believe.
00:54:29
Jo
Oh, shit.
00:54:30
Mad Ange
Um,
00:54:30
Jo
Damn.
00:54:33
Mad Ange
2019? Maybe.
00:54:35
Jo
Oh, it's only been seven years.
00:54:37
Mad Ange
um He passed away and then ah Myrna was running it kind of into the ground. um
00:54:47
Mad Ange
And yeah, so I meant to tell you that I remembered it after I dropped you off. Oh God, forgot to tell you about Amber Unicorn.
00:54:52
Jo
sad.
00:54:55
Mad Ange
Because I'd never been to Amber Unicorn until you told me about it.
00:54:55
Jo
but That is sad.
00:54:59
Mad Ange
And I was like, yeah.
00:55:00
Jo
Really?
00:55:02
Mad Ange
Yeah, you've you you wrote a line like, of like and you've been to Every Unicorn, right?
00:55:03
Jo
I'm glad I just didn't make that up.
00:55:08
Mad Ange
And I was like, I've never been to Every Unicorn.
00:55:11
Jo
Well, fucking go crack this DOS, man.
00:55:11
Mad Ange
One of the like the only use only used bookstore in Vegas I hadn't been to, actually. so But yeah, they ah they closed.
00:55:20
Jo
Damn. 2019 sucked.
00:55:21
Mad Ange
It was very sad. um They closed during early 2021 because there's a picture of me in the newspaper in there and I've got like my mask on.
00:55:24
Jo
Oh,
00:55:32
Jo
geez.
00:55:32
Mad Ange
And I had green hair.
00:55:33
Jo
Those times.
00:55:33
Mad Ange
So there was ah there was a very small sliver where I had green hair.
00:55:36
Jo
ah
00:55:38
Mad Ange
Again. thats
00:55:39
Jo
Green hair again. i was like, I think i remember green hair one time. Have I? Yes.
00:55:44
Mad Ange
ah Blue.
00:55:44
Jo
Possibly.
00:55:45
Mad Ange
had blue hair.
00:55:46
Jo
But I'm looking up.
00:55:47
Mad Ange
Yeah. you might Well, it was like bluish green.
00:55:50
Jo
im looking off camera like they're fucking pictures right here. Something that really looks right there. No. All right. All right. No more Amber unicorns.
00:55:55
Mad Ange
I'll send you some. Okay.
00:55:57
Jo
But your books are in brick and mortar stores where still exist. Not Barnes and Nobles. Not no, not Borders books because that's fucking gone.
00:56:02
Mad Ange
Right.
00:56:05
Jo
Barnes and Nobles a candle shop now.
00:56:05
Mad Ange
Uh, break my heart.
00:56:07
Jo
And that was a long fucking time ago for Borders.
00:56:09
Mad Ange
But yeah, so I want to get it out by, uh, by June because then there's time to get them out, get contact, all these bookstores and then put in my massive orders to get them to the bookstores by September, or October, Halloween season.
00:56:23
Jo
and fill up it out there that's actually a really good gift if anyone was wondering if like I've got that occult person in my fucking family I don't know to get them right there good good gift man oh
00:56:23
Mad Ange
Uh,
00:56:32
Mad Ange
Yeah. A lot of people I know actually did buy it for like their, their kids, their partners.
00:56:39
Jo
oh
00:56:40
Mad Ange
um I thought that was really, i thought that was really great.
00:56:40
Jo
that's sweet then yeah
00:56:43
Mad Ange
I'm like, Oh, um but then um the other thing I'm kind of working on is, so there's this book and it's called the Munchie. And it is from, this copy is from 1961. It is or do do,
00:56:56
Jo
Nice.
00:56:57
Mad Ange
it is a ah ordu grammar book for teaching like English to Urdu. um And it was used to teach like the the soldiers in British occupied India um before that, because this this is the 18th edition of it that I have in my hand from 1961.
00:57:11
Jo
Really?
00:57:16
Jo
Yeah.
00:57:16
Mad Ange
um My dad's mother's father wrote this book.
00:57:18
Jo
my god
00:57:23
Jo
Holy shit.
00:57:24
Mad Ange
So my great great grandfather wrote this. His name is also Khan. but
00:57:30
Jo
See? You've been in the family, the initialisms.
00:57:34
Mad Ange
Right, which is the argument I have with my dad constantly, who hates that I changed my name. So my dad wrote a new forward to it, or he's still writing it, and it's going to go about the history of it a little bit, stuff like that.
00:57:45
Jo
Cool.
00:57:46
Mad Ange
And then i'm I'm getting every copy of it, because there's only like a handful of copies in existence still.
00:57:51
Jo
Right.
00:57:52
Mad Ange
um It was published in our house in Pakistan. So it's got like our home address on the back.
00:57:59
Jo
Oh, my God.
00:57:59
Mad Ange
ah in a
00:58:02
Jo
history you
00:58:03
Mad Ange
Right. i When I was a kid, one time I found several boxes of this book and it's a hardcover. um I found several boxes of them and everybody ah would take like a nap in the middle of the day, like a siesta type situation, but I am an insomniac.
00:58:23
Mad Ange
So i pulled in all the boxes and set them up like dominoes in the courtyard in the middle of the house.
00:58:32
Jo
like And I was reading grammar. I'm like, oh, okay. That makes more sense though. The dominoes. That makes more sense. of like, you're a nerd.
00:58:39
Mad Ange
Yeah.
00:58:40
Jo
Not that level of like every HCS do.
00:58:42
Mad Ange
um oh
00:58:43
Jo
I just fucking read grammar books.
00:58:45
Mad Ange
ah I mean, I did, too. like i read The problem was I read everything in the library several times over because my grandfather would always be like, if you're bored, read a book.
00:58:48
Jo
Yeah. All
00:58:56
Mad Ange
Read the newspaper, read a book.
00:58:58
Jo
right.
00:58:59
Mad Ange
I ran out of books. Read them again. So everything everything in the library.
00:59:03
Jo
Fine.
00:59:05
Mad Ange
the time I was eight, I had finished that library at least twice. um weve Read some weird shit.
00:59:10
Jo
for you.
00:59:11
Mad Ange
I probably shouldn't have been reading at that time. um Nothing think terrible, but like, it's like a boy and his dog.
00:59:13
Jo
The story of o
00:59:17
Mad Ange
You know, like, the road. where
00:59:20
Jo
What?
00:59:23
Mad Ange
I'm a happy child.
00:59:23
Jo
I see no more, you old yeller.
00:59:24
Mad Ange
It's all right.
00:59:25
Jo
No.
00:59:25
Mad Ange
okay So yeah, I'm, uh, I'm getting, there's only a bunch of them got destroyed.
00:59:28
Jo
Call me McCarthy.
00:59:30
Mad Ange
They were put, the boxes were put on the roof by a moron. Um, so they got rained out, they got molded, they fell apart.
00:59:39
Jo
Oh, shit.
00:59:39
Mad Ange
So my dad is getting, every time somebody comes back, I'm like, Hey, do you have another copy? So I think I have three copies right now. Cause a lot of them are are like water stained and stuff.
00:59:48
Jo
Good.
00:59:50
Mad Ange
Um, This one actually is the nicest one, but like, see, it has all these like nice little diagrams and stuff.
00:59:57
Jo
Yeah.
00:59:58
Mad Ange
So I'm i'm getting as many copies as I can to scan them in.
00:59:58
Jo
Jesus, man.
01:00:03
Mad Ange
Cause we're just, my dad just wants to use the original, what was in here.
01:00:07
Jo
Right.
01:00:08
Mad Ange
So somebody has been publishing them on Amazon.
01:00:08
Jo
really
01:00:12
Mad Ange
There's two versions of it. And like, he's like, fuck them. It's our copyright. We're going to put out the new version. So, so yeah, I'm scanning in all the pages and then he's doing a forward and talking about the history of it.
01:00:19
Jo
Yeah. No shit. No shit.
01:00:26
Mad Ange
And then I'm doing another preface. It's like, Hey, let me tell you about this book, my, my history of this book. And ah so I'm going to be putting that out too.
01:00:36
Jo
That's amazing.
01:00:38
Mad Ange
And that's going to be really kind of weird. Like I come, I come from book publishing apparently. Yeah.
01:00:44
Jo
I know. I was like, the way you discover, like, oh, I was doing book publishing. But your family has. Your family has. And all we i mean, you're very artistic. You're very driven in the arts.
01:00:56
Jo
It's like, I remember you're just eclectic as fuck for this. Like, you have... the paintings, you've got the writing, you've got the movies, you've got non-fictional, you've got the publishing with some typesetting and stuff like that, which is entirely different than actual writing.
01:01:10
Jo
And then you have, dare I say, dare I say, burlesque dancing. And you've got the other, you've got the, would just call them the shells.
01:01:21
Jo
And then we've got all these other things that come into it, right?
01:01:22
Mad Ange
I also...
01:01:24
Jo
It's like entertainment one-on-one.
01:01:27
Mad Ange
Well, yeah. And I mean, I do like clothing design and like, um, I make like accessories, like purses and stuff too, that I'm just like, I need to, I need a purse for a thing and I just draw it and then figure out how to make it.
01:01:41
Mad Ange
And then I sew it and make it, um, you know, and I do stage managing.
01:01:42
Jo
It's cool hell.
01:01:45
Mad Ange
So it's like, I'm also like running around in the background going, hi, i got, I have my, my trusty clipboard that I run around with and,
01:01:48
Jo
Yeah.
01:01:53
Mad Ange
Like, in my pen, like, oh God, oh God, oh God, everybody stay on schedule, we got this. and
01:01:59
Jo
We can do it now. And you're in a city fort.
01:02:00
Mad Ange
I'm trying to, kind of, but like, I also, i gotta work kind of for myself and like freelance.
01:02:01
Jo
I mean, Vegas, man.
01:02:10
Mad Ange
So I'm not working like ah show, being like an in-house,
01:02:14
Jo
Right. Oh, God.
01:02:15
Mad Ange
um doing in-house positions or anything like that. I've tried a couple times and I'm like, I could be at home writing a book. I wrote, but when I was a stagehand, I had my little pocket notebook and I wrote several books.
01:02:30
Mad Ange
And like when I couldn't have my phone, wrote a 20,000 word book last week.
01:02:31
Jo
god
01:02:36
Mad Ange
ah book last week I think when I saw you on Sunday by Friday, I had it finished.
01:02:42
Jo
Yeah.
01:02:43
Mad Ange
I started it on Monday.
01:02:44
Jo
Good for you.
01:02:44
Mad Ange
I finished it on Friday and it was just notes.
01:02:45
Jo
Good for you. Good for you.
01:02:48
Mad Ange
That's not even the fleshed out story. I'm like, how many words is this? And it was like 19,755. Oh, wow.
01:02:56
Mad Ange
oh
01:02:56
Jo
One day one day you'll get that 800-word paper done.
01:03:04
Mad Ange
Listen, it was 795 words and it was fine.
01:03:05
Jo
Inside joke. $7.95, yeah.
01:03:09
Mad Ange
It was fine.
01:03:09
Jo
system
01:03:11
Mad Ange
It did not need to be 800 words. Oh, God. Oh, God. That's really...
01:03:15
Jo
put your name twice I guess whatever it's gonna be now can you do what's what's your favorite okay if if you had to pick a single lane of creativity what's what's your favorite one
01:03:24
Mad Ange
so god oh god ah
01:03:27
Jo
right and that's their favorite one oh god like okay George Burns there you know
01:03:29
Mad Ange
that's really My favorite one is is saying, oh God, oh, God, oh, God.
01:03:38
Mad Ange
That's really hard.
01:03:41
Jo
But we're still doing phrasing, I guess.
01:03:41
Mad Ange
That's... that's
01:03:47
Mad Ange
I'm going to say, i always i always want to say, oh, it's it's it's drawing, it's painting, you know, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, it's writing.
01:03:55
Jo
I know.
01:03:55
Mad Ange
For so long, I was like...
01:03:56
Jo
you going say that.
01:04:00
Mad Ange
I've always, I'm like, I'm not a writer for the longest time. I'm not a writer. I write. I'm not a writer. And that's the one thing I've consistently done for 40 something years is write.
01:04:13
Jo
Yeah. Yeah, I
01:04:13
Mad Ange
Write, write, write. I always come back to write. I'm always writing. I'm always walking around with my phone out, writing, writing, or I've got notebooks, making notes. um
01:04:24
Jo
was going say, when I knew you. Yeah.
01:04:27
Mad Ange
It's, yeah, it's, it's gotta be, it's,
01:04:27
Jo
When first met you, I should say.
01:04:29
Mad Ange
What's that?
01:04:30
Jo
When I first met you, I mean, not when I knew you, like I know you now, but like when i first met you, yeah, you're a writer.
01:04:37
Mad Ange
um like think I didn't think I was a writer then either.
01:04:39
Jo
You are.
01:04:42
Jo
Well, okay. Why? or Actually, why not why don't you think you're a writer then? Because you do write.
01:04:49
Mad Ange
I think, no, I think I'm a writer now.
01:04:50
Jo
Okay.
01:04:51
Mad Ange
Like I know for a fact I'm a writer now, but um I think because there was a long period of time where you tell people, like, people go, what do you do? And you're like, I'm a writer. And they're like, what have you published?
01:05:02
Jo
Mm-hmm.
01:05:03
Mad Ange
but if you What have you written? And I'm like, I've written many things. but i've published Well, to be fair, I've been published since I was, like, a teenager. But, like, I, yeah, it was always that kind of thing. It's same with, like, being an artist.
01:05:17
Mad Ange
You know, oh, you're not an artist.
01:05:18
Jo
What do you really do?
01:05:20
Mad Ange
What do you you, you don't make money off of it. You're not a real artist.
01:05:22
Jo
Yeah.
01:05:23
Mad Ange
And it's like, I do make money off of it, though, you know?
01:05:23
Jo
air
01:05:26
Mad Ange
i just I don't know. I think it's that whole kind of weird mental sort of block of like, no, I write, I'm a writer. i have had things published. i have not written a full book.
01:05:42
Mad Ange
And for a long time, a lot of people were like, that was kind of their marker for It was like, well, you've never written a book. like I will give me time.
01:05:51
Jo
So, like, okay, I mean,
01:05:51
Mad Ange
Yeah.
01:05:55
Jo
okay, Flannery and Connor did write a book.
01:05:56
Mad Ange
um
01:05:59
Jo
Someone and I had disagreements on what that book was, but it was basically her master's miass's thesis. Otherwise, she's a short predominantly a short story writer. that I mean, Flannery Connors, is that a fucking writer?
01:06:11
Jo
Or James Joyce wrote two books, but or three, sorry, and then predominantly Dubliners is one that anyone still reads. Short story collection.
01:06:19
Mad Ange
but You're also you're also like discounting... They're also discounting... Not you. um Them. The general them.
01:06:26
Jo
Damn right.
01:06:26
Mad Ange
um theyre They're discounting... like Journalists. And magazine writers.
01:06:32
Jo
Yeah.
01:06:32
Mad Ange
And newspaper writers. and stuff too Or like people that do flash fiction.
01:06:34
Jo
Good job, not friends.
01:06:36
Mad Ange
And honestly, fuck you. Fan fiction writers. I have read fan fiction that is better than a lot of traditionally published works.
01:06:46
Mad Ange
Like...
01:06:47
Jo
The last Harry Potter. Did we have that conversation where I got ah a leak of the...
01:06:49
Mad Ange
oh
01:06:51
Jo
other was It was actually turned out to be a fanfic of The Last Harry Potter.
01:06:54
Mad Ange
Yes.
01:06:55
Jo
ah like This is pretty good until you see it like the the romance part you're like, oh no, some kid wrote this, never mind.
01:07:01
Mad Ange
Yeah. um there's There's so much good fan fiction.
01:07:02
Jo
That was recent though, man.
01:07:06
Mad Ange
And I'm i'm a huge proponent of fan fiction because I think it's a safe place for people to learn to write. to really get their writing chops in and they don't have to do all this world building, backstory, all that.
01:07:16
Jo
Okay.
01:07:20
Mad Ange
It's like taking out your toys and playing with them.
01:07:20
Jo
Right.
01:07:22
Mad Ange
You just you grab these characters, create a story with them. And...
01:07:28
Jo
And I was never that. I was, okay. i had, past tense, I had a problem with fan fiction because was like, motherfuckers, create your own shit. That was that was those my thing for longest time. I've hit my mic again.
01:07:40
Jo
But not only do I see your point about it gives people a space that they can write, But you know what? If people want to put more art in the world, fucking put more art out in the world.
01:07:50
Mad Ange
ums
01:07:50
Jo
mean, there's nothing wrong with that.
01:07:51
Mad Ange
Right But I really like a big thing like I have watched people that used to I grew up with like friends that would write fanfiction in like notebooks and they'd be like oh like let's write these stories and then the stories would spawn off into like bigger stories and like watching some of those friends go from that to being published and it's like I remember your stories from when we were like 11, 12 years old when you started writing this fanfiction and like
01:08:11
Jo
Yeah.
01:08:19
Mad Ange
ah kind of just sticking your toes into it. And it was not good, but you just kept at it and you kept doing it. And that writing bug, like took like you found your love of reading and writing through that.
01:08:28
Jo
Right.
01:08:32
Jo
And merged them.
01:08:33
Mad Ange
yeah,
01:08:33
Jo
Yeah, I agree.
01:08:34
Mad Ange
And you made it something bigger. Like, so i I think it's great for that. I think it's something that like, I'm glad to see um the younger generations, especially really embracing it and being very like, fuck no, I write fan fiction.
01:08:49
Mad Ange
I read fan fiction. Like, what are you goingnna do about it? being very open about that. And I think that's really cool.
01:08:54
Jo
Damn right, Nemesis.
01:08:55
Mad Ange
Because I remember when it was still like, we don't talk about that.
01:08:56
Jo
Well, okay.
01:08:59
Jo
Yeah, it was a dirty little thing, but we look at it historically, Choster did Troilus and Cressida. That's basically fucking fan fiction of Iliad. You know, it's like all these things like Dante's...
01:09:08
Mad Ange
Dante's Inferno. Dante's Inferno.
01:09:13
Jo
Oh, both. Either. Twice.
01:09:15
Mad Ange
That is, it's Bible fan fiction. That's all it is. And like
01:09:20
Jo
The Bible's fan fiction from Gilgamesh. The Flood? Hello. that One was written like a thousand years before the other one. I'll let you wonder which one it was.
01:09:32
Jo
Exactly. Or Shakespeare openly writes fan fiction. you know, most besides maybe the histories, it's going to be, and arguably, of course, The Tempest.
01:09:44
Jo
Romeo and Juliet started out something else. This and this started with something else.
01:09:46
Mad Ange
Right.
01:09:47
Jo
The Statement of the started out with something else. It's just adaptations of it, you know.
01:09:51
Mad Ange
Hold on just one second. I got to check something.
01:09:54
Jo
holding on right now as mad and walks away this is when we play the game of can i have sex with one of those dolls maybe maybe not if you're thinking that hey that's really where thought why you're thinking that i mean honestly god there are dolls But B, I shouldn't kink shame because maybe that's your thing.
Life Experiences & Lessons Learned
01:10:15
Jo
And C, is that a moon or banana? I want to say it's a moon, but it very well could just be a banana of something hanging off of it, which reminds the last time I went to doctor. You ever go to a doctor?
01:10:25
Jo
And you're like, it's kind of embarrassing. It's like, you you know, you get like an older doctor, you're like, oh, thank God. And then as he's examining you, The much, much, much younger and very cute, by the way, medical student walks in and like, she's like, oh shit, I like get the exam. And like, oh God, now I have her examining me too.
01:10:44
Jo
And she keeps like looking at you and looking the doctor and keeps examining your shit. Like literally not my, my, you know, my, my, you know, my, well, we'll say ah my wee Willy Wonka.
01:10:55
Jo
My wee Willy Wonka. I guess my penis. And then, oh you're back. Sorry.
01:11:02
Mad Ange
It is a moon by the way Yes,
01:11:04
Jo
It is a moon. Okay, I don't know Moon, bananas.
01:11:06
Mad Ange
no
01:11:06
Jo
so like
01:11:07
Mad Ange
Also, were you trying to have sex with Billy over here?
01:11:08
Jo
angly No!
01:11:10
Mad Ange
Like, what doll are you trying to have sex with?
01:11:12
Jo
i was I was not trying to... Okay, you take one picture, one picture, one video maybe, of you making out with Lionel on stage and all of a sudden everyone thinks you want to fuck at every fucking, you know, inanimate or inanimate.
01:11:28
Mad Ange
Go with
01:11:30
Jo
I think Lionel's inanimate for me. He's very inanimate.
01:11:33
Mad Ange
it. There's a Muppet in this room. There is actually, I went to a Muppet making workshop. One of my friends took me and we got to, we actually got to learn how to properly make Muppets with the ping pong balls and everything.
01:11:39
Jo
Did you really? Oh my God.
01:11:46
Mad Ange
So yeah, I have an actual Muppet that I make.
01:11:49
Jo
Where did you put the ping pong balls?
01:11:51
Mad Ange
That's what you use for the eyes.
01:11:53
Jo
Oh, the eyes. Of course. That's what I, exactly what was going for. I ain't going for nothing else.
01:11:58
Mad Ange
Well, I did say ping pong balls, plural, and you, you only use one of them with the, for the eyes.
01:11:59
Jo
No, don't tell me if it's toy.
01:12:02
Mad Ange
So, you know,
01:12:05
Jo
Cut in half eyes.
01:12:05
Mad Ange
the but
01:12:08
Jo
it See, Timothee Chalamet, you could have made fucking Muppets and instead. You made a movie about ping pong playing. that that was the If he would have done that he still had ping pong, he would have won.
01:12:21
Jo
we've We've crissed and crossed. We've crissed and crossed and crossed and crissed. And holy shit, we got to have you back one day. But I will say...
01:12:29
Mad Ange
Yes, i guess I have a lot of stuff I'm working on So like, yeah, there's Many much more to come I will keep coming
01:12:34
Jo
Keep coming, man. I hope so. ah Phrasing again. Okay, we're going to talk about two things. because i So how'd you get that name, Matt Edge? so we It took us an hour, but we got that story. One hour for the name of Matt Edge. We got that fucking story. That's nice.
01:12:55
Jo
Next hour. Why is your hair pink? No, I know your hair is pink. I like that. I might not.
01:13:00
Mad Ange
Why is it pink? Why is it pink? I'm using red.
01:13:03
Jo
Oh.
01:13:03
Mad Ange
I almost always have red hair.
01:13:04
Jo
I was like... It washed. Is it from the washroom? I usually had to remember. Did you remember when my head was head my hair was like red? streets No? No?
01:13:16
Jo
I think that is before you.
01:13:17
Mad Ange
Yeah, I don't don't think so.
01:13:19
Jo
I think it was was pretty straight then.
01:13:20
Mad Ange
you were you had well you have no yeah You had no color in your hair when I met you because you were um being a professional in a professional environment.
01:13:28
Jo
Professional mode.
01:13:30
Mad Ange
you had You had your hair cut and everything.
01:13:30
Jo
was killing it.
01:13:33
Jo
Oh, Jesus, man.
01:13:34
Mad Ange
yeah
01:13:34
Jo
That was rough. That was fucking rough. Tired of that much.
01:13:37
Mad Ange
think it was long when when i when you first started and then like the third week you like cut it.
01:13:39
Jo
Fishbowl.
01:13:43
Jo
I do that one.
01:13:43
Mad Ange
Third week, fourth week.
01:13:44
Jo
you know is It's locks of love. I'll grow it out and I'll fucking cut it short. I'll grow it. it just the The charity. That's all.
01:13:51
Mad Ange
Yeah.
01:13:51
Jo
That's probably what I do. Until you get old and gray and they're like we don't want you here no more. I'm like, really? Okay, fuck you guys. I guess I'll just keep growing.
01:13:57
Mad Ange
and More for me.
01:13:58
Jo
I don't know.
01:13:59
Mad Ange
God, this shit is so gray. But you can't see it in all the pink.
01:14:03
Jo
Oh, the pink. The pink is it, man. The pink.
01:14:05
Mad Ange
Usually, we ah we forgot to pick it out this time, but usually there's a big white streak here because I have, like, like in my mom's family, like, one person, like, every generation gets, like, the the gray streak.
01:14:12
Jo
No.
01:14:17
Jo
Gets it through.
01:14:18
Mad Ange
And they get they get the one gray streak, and I've got it.
01:14:19
Jo
God.
01:14:22
Mad Ange
So...
01:14:23
Jo
But no, you're using the the definitely not permanent black.
01:14:24
Mad Ange
like
01:14:28
Mad Ange
we Well, I mean, this is my hair color. That's my roots.
01:14:31
Jo
That's a root root. That's a fucking... Oh, that is your hair color.
01:14:34
Mad Ange
But there's... Yeah.
01:14:37
Jo
Oh, good for you.
01:14:38
Mad Ange
Yeah, I have black hair.
01:14:39
Jo
Good for you.
01:14:39
Mad Ange
I had black hair when you met me because I had to be professional and i wasn't allowed to have...
01:14:42
Jo
going to say, I remember that. like That's what it was.
01:14:45
Mad Ange
Yeah, I couldn't have...
01:14:45
Jo
Talk about who was being straight then.
01:14:46
Mad Ange
ah
01:14:48
Mad Ange
And I grew out my my mohawk. I just grew it out again for the last couple of years. Right before my mom passed away, I started growing it out. And then I just... ah It was like all fully grown out for years.
01:15:01
Mad Ange
And then a couple days before I saw you, we shaved. It's like, I was like, I need, I need it.
01:15:07
Jo
Oh, good. Yeah. Absolutely.
01:15:11
Mad Ange
I need it off. It's too hot. She did it the fuck off. So,
01:15:15
Jo
But that's exactly it, because when I saw you last, it was like the heat wave.
01:15:15
Mad Ange
so
01:15:20
Jo
Or as I like to know, i was like, holy fuck, it's not snowing. No ice? No snow? Fuck yeah. I like this heat wave. Like, day three, I'm like, okay, I get it now.
01:15:30
Mad Ange
As long as it's not as hot, doesn't get as hot as it did last year, we're good. We're good. This was, this sucked, but it wasn't too bad. It was 117 last year and I was in the fucking desert in a car with no AC.
01:15:36
Jo
No, it was...
01:15:42
Mad Ange
Um, and, uh, yeah, my boyfriend did tell me that his car had no AC. I took a bus to California and he didn't tell me to the drive back that his car didn't have AC.
01:15:42
Jo
Yeah.
01:15:53
Mad Ange
I get in his car at 11 AM on the beach and it's like, all right,
01:15:54
Jo
We're
01:15:59
Mad Ange
as you We'll hit the AC when we got up. There's no AC in this car. What?
01:16:04
Jo
going to take a long ass ride.
01:16:06
Mad Ange
I can't be in the heat for that long. So it took us, technically it took us 11 hours to get back to Vegas because we left at 11 a.m. there and got here at 11 p.m.
01:16:17
Jo
Which beach? HB or like Long long Beach? that like Like what area?
01:16:22
Mad Ange
No, my my beach is Long Beach. My beach is is Seal Beach. That's my home beach. Yeah.
01:16:27
Jo
Oh, Seal. Yeah, yeah
01:16:28
Mad Ange
But no, it was a redondo.
01:16:32
Jo
yeah. 11 fucking hours.
01:16:35
Mad Ange
Because we had to stop everywhere because I couldn't be in the heat.
01:16:36
Jo
Jesus.
01:16:37
Mad Ange
I was overheating. i had a pair of um i have a pair of shorts my friend made me out of like um this really soft cotton Sorong material.
01:16:39
Jo
Yeah, no. That's legit.
01:16:46
Jo
Yeah.
01:16:46
Mad Ange
And I just soaked them with water. And then I was holding them out the window to get them cool. And then I was wrapping them around my neck. and draping it over my lap as we were like rabbiting from every tiny little itty bitty.
01:16:56
Jo
Yeah.
01:17:00
Mad Ange
There was a Dairy Queen in the middle of the desert I don't think I've ever been to. The worst Jack in the Box ever. um An A&W, like we we had root beer floats.
01:17:09
Jo
I love
01:17:12
Mad Ange
ah Yeah, it was 117 and it was brutal. Once we got to the Mad Greek though, the the sun started going down. So it was pretty pretty straight shot from there.
01:17:21
Jo
Yeah, that's fucking brutal. Like, dude, I remember, like, I can drive to California in the morning, but I wouldn't come back until night. Like, it's even with AC, it's just a brutal fucking thing, man.
01:17:32
Mad Ange
He just, he didn't know, like he didn't realize that it would be, well, we didn't realize it would be that bad when we were driving back, but he also didn't realize, like, how much I can't be in the heat like that anymore.
01:17:32
Jo
Like, no idea.
01:17:42
Jo
No, it's legit.
01:17:42
Mad Ange
So I was like, well, I've had heat exhaustion a couple times.
01:17:43
Jo
Like, no one should be. Yeah.
01:17:48
Mad Ange
um
01:17:49
Jo
Yeah.
01:17:49
Mad Ange
And when when you get it, like, it kind of gets easier to get. And I had it out in the desert twice. ah One time in a gorge in Arizona.
01:18:00
Mad Ange
I thought I was going to die.
01:18:01
Jo
No.
01:18:01
Mad Ange
i'm like it is two and a half hours the nearest drive to civilization. And ah an hour to an hour and a half of that is off-roading.
01:18:11
Jo
Yeah, no.
01:18:13
Mad Ange
somebody Somebody saved my life.
01:18:13
Jo
No, I forgot. know
01:18:14
Mad Ange
And then, yeah.
01:18:17
Mad Ange
It was really scary. And then I... No.
01:18:17
Jo
some Here's some water.
01:18:20
Jo
al that's I think Vegas was when I learned i was the only guy
01:18:22
Mad Ange
No.
01:18:26
Jo
No, it was me and two Mexican kids running track at noon once, only once. And they're like, good job. We all finished. Like they would take turns running 400s with me.
01:18:37
Jo
And I was just running like miles and shit like that. And that was the only time they're like, oh my God, you're weird. and like, why? Then I realized was like 120. And like, yeah, the he is just like, what the fuck, man? do like one mile. I'm done.
01:18:50
Mad Ange
where did you move here from originally?
01:18:50
Jo
We are, yeah. Where am I from?
01:18:54
Mad Ange
Yeah, don't remember Chicago?
01:18:57
Jo
Near the vine.
01:18:58
Mad Ange
it
01:18:59
Jo
Originally, yeah. like original Originally, but I moved up north to noah Wisconsin after that like when I was four.
01:19:07
Mad Ange
Okay.
01:19:07
Jo
so like our like Wisconsin right now has probably got fucking snow. becausess I don't know. Probably a fucking snow or some shit. There's always snow there, man. we We used to burn tires on the ice and drink.
01:19:23
Jo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
01:19:24
Mad Ange
I can smell that.
01:19:25
Jo
Yeah, yeah.
01:19:25
Mad Ange
Oh, my eyes sting.
01:19:26
Jo
Yeah, exactly.
01:19:27
Mad Ange
Okay.
01:19:29
Jo
Yeah, I was like, you come home, you're all black. Like, you all drinking? Like, no, ma, just, oh, shit, tar, huh? Okay, you got me. You got me. Maybe I was drinking. Or maybe it was like a burning tires or some shit.
01:19:41
Mad Ange
So did you move here from Wisconsin?
01:19:44
Jo
Yeah, ran away. I mean, no, honestly, I was in in different um i was in different universities, and i was trying to go to California and ran of gas.
01:19:53
Mad Ange
my parents ended it up here. but Well, not quite.
01:19:53
Jo
Yeah, and that's...
01:19:56
Jo
but Going to California?
01:19:58
Mad Ange
they They were driving from New York to California. My mom is from upstate, upstate, upstate New York, Canadian border upstate from Watertown, New York.
01:20:01
Jo
Yeah.
01:20:06
Mad Ange
Um, yeah, so she, she was, um, she's from Watertown and she met my dad.
01:20:06
Jo
Oh, shit, water talent, yeah. Represent.
01:20:12
Mad Ange
They got married. Um, they were driving to California cause he had family that lived in California and, um, they almost destroyed their engine on the drive here cause they didn't put oil in it.
01:20:25
Mad Ange
They ran out of oil and, um,
01:20:26
Jo
Oh yeah
01:20:28
Mad Ange
And then they got here and the car got fixed and they were just like kind of chilling. And then the car got broken into and they found the police reports, did all that while they were waiting.
01:20:37
Jo
shit.
01:20:40
Mad Ange
Because I mean, all of their stuff was in there. So while they were waiting to see if any of it got recovered or anything, they decided to stay here.
01:20:49
Mad Ange
So I would have grown up.
01:20:49
Jo
Let's stay in the place where my car got broken into.
01:20:52
Mad Ange
Well, I would i would have ah grown up like it would have been by the beach otherwise SoCal. That's where they were headed to.
01:20:52
Jo
good idea
01:20:57
Jo
Oh, poor you.
01:20:59
Mad Ange
So, um no, i I think I'm a better person for having grown up in the seedy underbelly of Las Vegas.
01:21:00
Jo
Poor you.
01:21:08
Jo
I think we all are. For much shit Vegas gets. Because it's hard to live anywhere else after you live in Vegas. It really, really is hard to adjust. Like, you get, like, looks like...
01:21:19
Jo
I remember people really giving me shit for having jello shots at McDonald's. Like, what do you mean? This is not like I do what now? Like, oh shit. Right. I'm not in Vegas anymore.
01:21:26
Mad Ange
I'm sorry.
01:21:27
Jo
Right. This is actually abnormal behavior. Got it. Sorry, sir. I will take my jello shots out of your establishment. You can, that may go kill people with whatever you put in, you know, hamburgers or things close, just things closing.
01:21:34
Mad Ange
they
01:21:41
Jo
Like how the fuck does things fucking close?
01:21:43
Mad Ange
Yeah, but they still close now and that sucks.
01:21:44
Jo
Like early. and
01:21:45
Mad Ange
And I hate it. Like I miss 24 hour Walmart.
01:21:46
Jo
Oh,
01:21:48
Mad Ange
I miss, I miss going to home Depot at 3am and we'd be like, we'd be drunk and we're like, we're going to build some bondage equipment.
01:21:50
Jo
Yeah. Oh
01:21:54
Mad Ange
Let's go to home Depot.
01:21:55
Jo
man.
01:21:55
Mad Ange
We can get everything there and be there.
01:21:55
Jo
Same.
01:21:59
Mad Ange
3am dressed all crazy, like picking out wood, buying chains and stuff like, but I, the thing is, I also, i was a night owl ever since I was a kid.
01:22:00
Jo
yeah
01:22:07
Jo
oh man thats that
01:22:12
Mad Ange
Um,
01:22:13
Jo
same
01:22:13
Mad Ange
I remember when I was a, when I was a baby, I remember being like three years old and being, getting in trouble because I'd be up till three, four in the morning and my mom coming in and yelling at me for still being up, playing Atari, watching TV, reading books, like, um,
01:22:31
Mad Ange
But yeah, remember being three and getting yelled at for playing Atari at three or four in the morning.
01:22:33
Jo
Atari.
01:22:37
Mad Ange
And my parents were, they just didn't know what was wrong with me. And my dad still doesn't know what's wrong with me, even though I'm kind of exactly like him. ah
01:22:45
Jo
No one does.
01:22:47
Mad Ange
And yeah, so the living someplace like Vegas, like it would have been hard for me to really live anywhere else. Living in Pakistan sucked because ah
01:22:55
Jo
Yeah.
01:22:56
Mad Ange
everything like the tv goes off at 10 they play the national anthem and put on the test pattern and you think the apocalypse is coming and then it goes to tv static and then it's tv static all night so i had my vhs tapes and
01:23:03
Jo
Yep.
01:23:08
Jo
that That was me growing up.
Loneliness, Loss & Healing
01:23:09
Jo
Yeah. No, if that was the small town smallest town in Wisconsin. Then the same thing. Like you hear the the flag goes up, the pattern, Night Living Dead once in a while, and then just like patterns and static.
01:23:16
Mad Ange
oh
01:23:21
Jo
That's all you get. One channel. Fuck off.
01:23:22
Mad Ange
Yeah. it It freaked me out when I was a kid. it it gave me I also had panic attacks since the time I was about like so four, I think it was the first time I had one. so um Something about the TV stations going off when I lived in Pakistan used to trigger them really bad. and like i felt Because I felt so alone.
01:23:40
Mad Ange
I hadn't embraced my loneliness yet.
01:23:41
Jo
Yeah.
01:23:45
Mad Ange
I was a lonely, sad girl. I was always a sad girl growing up. like I still am. But it um
01:23:51
Jo
I get that.
01:23:52
Mad Ange
it's part of why I write so much too is I'm, I'm always sad and I've always been sad, but know, I was a very lonely child because my brother was kind of like, well, you're the boy.
01:23:55
Jo
Yep. I can...
01:24:03
Mad Ange
So we have to put everything into you. And like the girl is, she'll get, we'll marry her off when she's old enough or almost old. once Once we deem she's old enough. Um, we get my dad tried that too. That didn't work out too great for him.
01:24:17
Mad Ange
Um, arranged marriage did not suit me. Um, But yeah, just so i I would read and write and play video games and watch TV. And now I sleep have to sleep with the fucking TV on because like it's too dark and quiet at night.
01:24:33
Mad Ange
And I'm like, I'm all alone. Yeah,
01:24:36
Jo
Yeah, the quietness kind of gets you moment.
01:24:38
Mad Ange
yeah it's like I could be in a room full of people and feel alone.
01:24:40
Jo
Weird.
01:24:42
Mad Ange
like And then I write. I'm in the corner writing like the weirdo. Yeah.
01:24:49
Jo
No, i I remember walking around school, reading and writing, when everyone else is having recess. mean, it's a very small school, so you get shit for it. But, no, absolutely. I think that's probably why...
01:25:02
Jo
You know, we were both writers and and my parents did try to do enrage marriage, but um Lionel was not old enough at the time.
01:25:10
Mad Ange
just a cub.
01:25:12
Jo
There's a cub, Lionel. Snarf, snarf, snarf.
01:25:15
Mad Ange
Yeah.
01:25:17
Jo
But this is one of the the cool things because we have a lot in common. We do, honestly, God, we have a lot in common. we don't know this until we start talking like, what the fuck, you know?
01:25:22
Mad Ange
Yeah.
01:25:25
Jo
But I remember I had just done an interview with this person and then you texted me like a couple weeks later saying like Misomi Max is dead. I'm like, what?
01:25:40
Jo
Like, what the fuck are you doing?
01:25:40
Mad Ange
Oh, yeah, you were the first person I thought of to message, honestly.
01:25:43
Jo
Yeah.
01:25:45
Mad Ange
um
01:25:45
Jo
was like, what the fuck? I just interviewed her like, you know, yesterday.
01:25:49
Mad Ange
Yeah, I think it wasn't quite public at that point, and I was just like, I...
01:25:53
Jo
No, it was not.
01:25:55
Mad Ange
I was like, I need to tell Joe. And i luckily I had your your phone over. So I was like, I need to message. I was just like and kind of a weird. I was also in a weird shock state because my mom had just passed away.
01:26:07
Jo
Jesus, fuck.
01:26:08
Mad Ange
Like she she passed away, i want to say like a week after my mom.
01:26:08
Jo
Double up.
01:26:13
Jo
Wow.
01:26:13
Mad Ange
Like it was really it was really close to it. And so I was just like in a weird shock state. Like, you know, um still trying to process.
01:26:21
Jo
Yeah.
01:26:24
Jo
People exiting.
01:26:25
Mad Ange
everything Because, could I mean, with my mom, that was like it was it was just it was so sudden.
01:26:27
Jo
Right.
01:26:31
Mad Ange
But she did die exactly how she wanted. She always wanted to die in her sleep. So, like, i'm I'm grateful for that. She was like, I'm going to take nap. I have to go to the Social Security office. I hate the Social Security office.
01:26:44
Mad Ange
I'm not going to go. I'm going to take a nap. And then she died rather than go to the Social Security office. So, you know. ah
01:26:52
Jo
That's determination, man. That is fucking determination right there.
01:26:53
Mad Ange
But. ah
01:26:56
Jo
love you, man. but that's But that has to be like the world emptying out bit by a bit.
01:26:58
Mad Ange
but
01:27:03
Mad Ange
the
01:27:04
Jo
Bit by bit. All your social network kind of goes bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. And then like it's... Were we taught... I never...
01:27:18
Jo
talk to you about some people, and but you would just like know to text me about it know what
01:27:25
Mad Ange
Well, with Messimi Max, you had, um you had talked me about her a few times that you were like, you yeah, but you were really excited about, like, working with her or something.
01:27:32
Jo
mean? Did Fuck. i was God damn it, would I have been blacked out Trump?
01:27:37
Mad Ange
Like, you're like, oh, i've I've, you know, worked with her before. Like, you know, I've and shot her whatever.
01:27:45
Jo
Something like that.
01:27:45
Mad Ange
And, um yeah, like, you you told me a little bit.
01:27:46
Jo
and
01:27:50
Mad Ange
So, like, i always have this association of you with her. Like, yeah.
01:27:53
Jo
Yeah,
01:27:54
Mad Ange
because of that like and i saw her not that long before she passed away like a month before
01:28:01
Jo
ah yeah I was like a lot of people did.
01:28:03
Mad Ange
um she i was working a show for my for my best friend she was doing a show and um and max was in it and i was helping
01:28:03
Jo
Like she was supposed to appear somewhere that day or some shit too.
01:28:17
Mad Ange
what was I doing? think was doing maybe like money change or something and kind of helping her out. Um, cause it was like one of my friend's first shows and, uh, and yeah, like she was there and she and I were talking and joking around and then she was dead. And I was like, what?
01:28:38
Jo
So how do you take, I don't i don't remember, i do not remember the year. Honest to God, I do not remember that year. There's like blackness for me, but I had to be in Montreal. i had to be 2020 something, 2020, not 19, hopefully not, no, 2020, 21, 22, like,
01:29:02
Jo
twenty twenty twenty one twenty two hike I don't know. But how do you balance the losses? I mean, ah they have to affect you. but These are not like insignificant people. right These are people that touched you, and you were like especially your mom, and one after pop pops. right like How do you fucking distance it?
01:29:26
Mad Ange
I don't know. um Right after my mom passed away,
01:29:30
Jo
Am I going make you cry on cam?
01:29:32
Mad Ange
no ah the ah right but between my mom dying and Max dying, one of my friends that we would always joke was my daughter.
01:29:43
Mad Ange
We found out she passed away. We didn't find out until like a month later.
01:29:45
Jo
Jesus.
01:29:47
Mad Ange
so I found out right after Max passed away, but she had passed away like, I think like the weekend after my mom passed away.
01:29:54
Jo
In between time.
01:29:54
Mad Ange
And It's, I've lost a few people over the last couple of years. I lost somebody just, what, two months ago?
01:30:06
Mad Ange
ah And I don't really know, like, because even with my mom, like, at first, I think, you know, well, part of it is, like, the shock of it all. um
01:30:16
Jo
Yeah.
01:30:16
Mad Ange
I was really in a daze. um I was at school. i was I was doing metalsmithing at the time. And I was, and that's like my favorite class to be in. And just one day I was sitting in there and I'm like, I gotta go home. I just don't feel good.
01:30:31
Mad Ange
I feel weird. We go home. And I went home and I took a shower and I got, I was getting dressed to go run errands when I got the call about my mom.
01:30:42
Mad Ange
And, uh, I remember kind of like blanking out, but also like crying and being very like, uh,
01:30:46
Jo
Yeah.
01:30:53
Mad Ange
And like immediately tried calling my dad. I called my dad for 10 or 11 hours um because she passed away in the afternoon. And so it's, he's 12 hours ahead.
01:31:07
Mad Ange
And so I'm just spamming his phone, spamming his phone. Like I must've called him a hundred and something times before he woke up. And i remember going and running my errands still.
01:31:19
Mad Ange
And just, I would be fine. Like I feel too, I remember being like, I feel too okay right now. Shouldn't I feel more upset?
01:31:27
Jo
Right.
01:31:29
Mad Ange
and I'm like, I just don't know. And then I was like in the dispensary crying. And yeah, just it kate I was kind of okay-ish until I talked to my dad. And then I i lost it mid-sentence telling him.
01:31:44
Mad Ange
and ah And after that, just like the next few days were really weird. It was just this up and down cycle. I still went to school. I kept a 4.0 GPA.
01:31:57
Mad Ange
Like I had a 4.0 GPA at the time. Like I was doing great. Like I just kept doing things like immersing myself in projects, but not like in a not in like, so I was trying to distract myself, but more, I was just, I needed to distract my conscious so my subconscious could work through it.
01:32:17
Jo
to work through it.
01:32:17
Mad Ange
Um, um,
01:32:18
Jo
Right.
01:32:18
Mad Ange
And then as, like, more people started passing away. Like, well, I mean, then that whole thing, like, going to my mom's wake was really weird. My brother and I hadn't spoken in 25 years. And the day she died, we spoke.
01:32:29
Jo
Shit.
01:32:30
Mad Ange
And then at her wake, we saw each other, or at the viewing. Like, we saw each other and hugged each other. and that was And then, yeah, that was weird. And then we had the funeral a few days later. and I went to my brother's house after the funeral. And so that was, like, a whole...
01:32:48
Mad Ange
surreal thing. um And again, like during the funeral, i was, I was up and down. Like there's times where I was really calm. Like I gave a eulogy. I made people laugh during her eulogy.
01:32:59
Mad Ange
yes Sorry about the time my mom got in a fight with somebody at a Flog and Molly concert.
01:33:06
Mad Ange
Dude tried to steal my pirate hat. She decked him and ended up on top of him, just punching his head into the ground. And then she hot,
01:33:14
Jo
Oh, that was the punching in the face you're talking about. I remember that.
01:33:16
Mad Ange
yeah
01:33:17
Jo
I don't know it ever happened.
01:33:19
Mad Ange
and then and then afterwards she got to meet the band and she offered to bake them cookies and so you know like the throughout the funeral it was like i'd be fine and then i was just not okay and then i was fine and i was not okay and then afterward at like you know at my brother's house like i was fine we were telling stories
01:33:26
Jo
Yeah.
01:33:41
Mad Ange
about random shit and having a good time.
01:33:44
Jo
like waves.
01:33:44
Mad Ange
And, and then, yeah, it's just been waves. Like, I mean, it still waves.
01:33:48
Jo
Yeah.
01:33:48
Mad Ange
It's been, um it's been just over two years. And I cried yesterday about my mom, like out of nowhere. Oh, because I'm getting ready to apply for graduation.
01:34:00
Mad Ange
And, ah and yeah.
01:34:00
Jo
And you she was wanting to see you back.
01:34:03
Mad Ange
Yeah. So I, and then I was just like, I'm to be crying my whole graduation. But yeah, but Yeah, I don't know. and then, like, after her funeral, we get all these other things. You know, Max died. ah My friend passed away. Like, more and more and more and more. And at some point, my brain kind of... And, I mean, again, I've lost some friends before that, too. So, at some point, I've reached this point of, like, I have a good cry.
01:34:33
Mad Ange
Like, I have a shock, and then I have a good cry, and then I'm just kind of, like... I don't want to say let it go it's but it's like it it has to go into like a back burner somewhere.
01:34:44
Mad Ange
Go into the subconscious.
01:34:44
Jo
Yeah. Yeah.
01:34:46
Mad Ange
It pops up here and there. um And I don't know. Like, it's it's it's such a new and weird thing for me. And I mean, it's one of those things, too, that's like the older I get, the more people it's going to be.
01:34:58
Mad Ange
But losing my mom really snapped me out of some shit that I had been. i didn't realize how much I had been like.
01:35:09
Mad Ange
I don't want to say stuck in a box, but I went through like a really bad heartache um in like 2018, like a really, really bad one. And that kind of broke something in me.
01:35:23
Mad Ange
And so there was a long time where i kind of felt like I can't feel feelings properly anymore. Like that was, that was kind of where I was for a while where it's like, yeah, I just, I can't feel feelings anymore.
01:35:32
Jo
Right.
01:35:37
Mad Ange
And then, I was getting bits and pieces of them, but after my mom died, it was kind of
01:35:44
Mad Ange
floating for a while. and it was like, it was kind of that like chrysalis moment of like, all right, now I am the goo. And then it slowly started reforming.
01:35:56
Mad Ange
And then this last year, um last year, I really was like, came out of it. Like i started snapping out of it. step by step by step pretty quick.
01:36:05
Jo
Good. Catching
01:36:06
Mad Ange
And that's why I did so much shit. I made those movies. um Literally was supposed to start school and yeah, I was supposed to start school in two weeks and I changed my classes. I went and took out all my classes and was like, I'm going to film school.
01:36:20
Mad Ange
of And then made those movies and had that whole experience and I've been working on a bunch of other creative projects. I started painting, drawing,
01:36:32
Mad Ange
More. And just kind of. I kind of returned to myself. Over the course of the last year. um and so far this year. Has been like a. the out like Like last year was a lot more internal. With a lot of external. I did some crazy shit. I went on my i took my first trip out of town by myself.
01:36:50
Mad Ange
like I've never solo traveled. Out of state.
01:36:54
Jo
Bakersfield, here we come.
01:36:56
Mad Ange
um I took a bus. ah By myself. And went to California. was like.
01:37:02
Jo
wow.
01:37:03
Mad Ange
Get on a bus. Bye.
01:37:04
Jo
That's cool, though.
01:37:05
Mad Ange
And then I've, I've driven there and back several times by myself now, which was very scary the first time. And I'm just, yeah, like now, now I'm getting back to where I'm going out more and going to events again being social again. So that's healing too, i guess, in some ways. Yeah.
01:37:28
Mad Ange
that connection with people and my social circle is always growing too.
01:37:29
Jo
Yeah.
01:37:32
Mad Ange
So that's part of it too. is that Oh, somebody died. Hold on. We've got another one. But,
01:37:38
Jo
Come on in. from Regenerations, here we go.
01:37:39
Mad Ange
but
01:37:41
Jo
But that was...
01:37:45
Jo
I think we mentioned this after the award show. We all went to dinner and kind of shit like that. And like in the car, I think it was, where it was, it was so nice to see you again because honestly, I got to feel like yesterday.
01:38:02
Mad Ange
Yeah, it felt like no time had passed.
01:38:02
Jo
Like no time at all.
01:38:06
Mad Ange
And um and it was also nice, I think, on my end at least, that there was a lot more clarity of mind there because because I wasn't hammered out of my skull.
01:38:07
Jo
Yeah.
01:38:20
Mad Ange
ah
01:38:20
Jo
Sober and sober.
01:38:22
Mad Ange
The time before that when I saw you, I almost got a DUI on the way home. okay
01:38:27
Jo
Oh. You almost got a DUI in the hotel room. God damn it. I'm surprised they let you in. Like, oh fucker. Stay out.
01:38:35
Mad Ange
2018 that was my first solo burlesque show that I had ever done where I was like by myself like I had no support there my boyfriend at the time didn't go with me was just like no I'm not going go and I was I remember being all by myself at the show and I had friends there and that was great but like it felt really weird yeah I was like
01:38:56
Jo
different
01:38:59
Jo
You have
01:39:00
Mad Ange
this is really kind of scary and I've staged right. So like, this is really scary and I feel kind of fucking alone. Um, and then you messaged me and I went and saw you straight after the show, got off the stage, did my, the, the, the curtain call then went to go see
01:39:20
Jo
a drink man, let's have a drink like it I should yeah, and now I'd be like, let's have some tea. But it was kind of the same, or let's have a very sugary drink that we can't even fucking stand and throw it to at someone. but
01:39:33
Mad Ange
I have a good assortment of of tea, of some very high-end teas, because I do love my tea.
01:39:33
Jo
More aproposal.
01:39:40
Jo
Tea's amazing, tea's amazing, though. But I'm glad that you're coming back to you. And it's a, I'm very, very glad that you're coming back to you sober You know, it's not perfection. No, I'm not saying you're never ever drinking them, but it's a different you.
01:40:00
Jo
It's a very, because you're always very sweet. You're always very nice. You're very smart.
01:40:04
Mad Ange
Aww.
01:40:05
Jo
All those things, right? I'm glowing. more and it, know.
01:40:08
Mad Ange
all
01:40:10
Jo
And it was always that weird, not because of drinking, because we both know it ain't good for us. We both absolutely know how far, there's no limit to how far we can take drinking.
01:40:22
Mad Ange
a
01:40:24
Jo
There's there's none. Heart-stopping. Let's keep fucking pumping up. Let's go, let's go, let's go. I woke up, huh? Let's go. What's more drinking? And to not have to do that and still find out you're wonderful, sweet, charming, caring, you know.
01:40:34
Mad Ange
I
01:40:40
Jo
And now, you know, it's...
01:40:41
Mad Ange
am who I am.
01:40:43
Jo
Yeah, it's like you you just find out like it was never the alcohol. The alcohol was like, the inhib it was like doing things against you. and and me, maybe i just maybe I'm projecting right now, but but
01:40:51
Mad Ange
Oh, God, yeah.
01:40:54
Mad Ange
No, I was a horrible person um sometimes when I was drunk. You've seen it. You've seen it at least once where I'm just an asshole drunk.
01:41:01
Jo
I do not recall.
01:41:03
Mad Ange
Oh, I'm glad.
01:41:03
Jo
Because i was also probably blocking blackout drunk.
01:41:06
Mad Ange
Um, yeah, no, there was, I, because I, and also being like a sad girl, um, being a sad girl and also being somebody who had a lot of misplaced rage and hadn't learned how to like work through that.
01:41:06
Jo
Okay.
01:41:19
Jo
um
01:41:20
Mad Ange
Um, there was a period of time where I was just really burning some bridges. Um, I was really fucking toxic, you know, and I just was like, well, i can be an asshole because I'm drunk, like whatever.
01:41:26
Jo
Self-medication.
01:41:33
Mad Ange
Um,
01:41:34
Jo
Yeah.
01:41:35
Mad Ange
And also, or I'm going to just be crying my eyes out and trying to kill myself. Um, which I'm not a suicidal person. That's the thing. Like I've, I'm for as depressed as I am as a person, like that deep bone, deep depression that I have that just set deep sadness.
01:41:57
Mad Ange
There's only been a couple times in my life where I was actually, actually suicidal.
01:41:57
Jo
Yeah.
01:42:04
Mad Ange
Um, You saw me during one of them. But yeah, it just, for it to get that far into like, instead of working through my shit, just drowning myself in it.
01:42:18
Jo
Yeah. No, i I saw you through one of them. was when you took the second drink from that fucking sugar bomb. I'm like, goddammit! Take that sugar bomb off. I do fuck too.
01:42:28
Mad Ange
And I was like, no I'm going to go out the way I want, sweetly. But...
01:42:34
Jo
Yeah.
01:42:36
Mad Ange
but
01:42:37
Jo
But i i get it though, because I... You saw me after and before, honestly. But my 19 through 20-something, was blackout for a reason. I was trying to kill myself every day with alcohol. And every day I woke up, I was like, fuck it, not today, i guess.
01:42:57
Jo
Okay, I tried more. like i was depu Every time I woke up, I was disappointed.
01:42:59
Mad Ange
Yeah.
01:43:03
Jo
I was like, what the fuck? So yeah, I think we were kind of edging through that as well. We're just like using like one day you won't wake up and this is the day. Let's keep going with this drink. This one more drug, one more of that, whatever it is. I had back in tables of Valium and vodka.
01:43:19
Jo
What? How bad? And Vicodin at the same time.
01:43:20
Mad Ange
Oh, God.
01:43:21
Jo
How bad that can that be
01:43:23
Mad Ange
Yeah, no, it's totally fine.
01:43:25
Jo
Yeah. the
01:43:26
Mad Ange
see I was always like...
01:43:26
Jo
Donut mix.
01:43:28
Mad Ange
cautious about that for the most part. Like I hated taking pills and drinking.
01:43:31
Jo
Oh,
01:43:34
Mad Ange
i did. I mean, I did it, but that was incredibly rare. Like mostly i was just like, okay, so we're going drink this whole bottle of rum.
01:43:43
Jo
that was time.
01:43:43
Mad Ange
And now we're happy. drink this bottle of vodka. And now we're sad. and we're going to throw some whiskey in there and get in a fucking fight. I have one of my best friends in the entire world.
01:43:50
Jo
and no
01:43:52
Mad Ange
i lost my shit on him one night um after having whiskey. And to this day, i am forever grateful that he was kind with me and talked me through it.
01:44:08
Mad Ange
And... but Like he very easily could have been like, I never want to fucking see you or speak to you ever again in my life. And like, um, and again, like he's one of my best friends in the world and one of the most important people to me. And I almost burned that all down more than once, but one time, especially, and that, um, you would think that would have been a wake up call. It kind of was a little bit, but then I kind of met somebody who was worse than me.
01:44:41
Jo
Hey, God damn it.
01:44:41
Mad Ange
And no, no.
01:44:42
Jo
No names.
01:44:44
Mad Ange
no um We, we, we don't say her name anyway.
01:44:44
Jo
I am too fragile.
01:44:47
Mad Ange
ah
01:44:48
Jo
Her name.
01:44:49
Mad Ange
And she, she, I was watching her go through what I went through at her age.
01:44:51
Jo
Good. Not me.
01:44:57
Mad Ange
Cause she was in her twenties and I was like, Oh God, we have to get you off of this path. And then I kind of realized like, bitch, you are still on this path yourself. And,
01:45:07
Jo
Yeah.
01:45:07
Mad Ange
I remember flying out to Colorado during a blizzard for the weirdest Thanksgiving ever.
01:45:13
Jo
Damn.
01:45:15
Mad Ange
We will come back to that because that is actually a story you will love. um And ah I messaged that same friend who I who had lost my shit on that time. And I was like, hey, I just, I, you know, basically apology. Like, I want to say that, like, I'm sorry. i am a lot and I've put you through a lot. And you know, I'm, I need to get my shit together and I really need to work on that. And like, just I, on the plane, i was just thinking about that. And I messaged him when I got off the plane and then, um, and then, yeah. And then shutdown happened a couple months later and shut down. I really got my life together. i relaunched my business.
01:46:00
Mad Ange
Um, I was helping people. I was writing. I wrote so many fucking books, so many I wrote something like 300,000 words during shutdown
01:46:12
Jo
Jesus man.
01:46:13
Mad Ange
um I was there's days where just all I was doing from the time I woke up to the time I went to sleep was writing writing writing writing writing and I was so creative and I had so much going on and also was babysitting that insane alcoholic so it just uh
01:46:29
Jo
Right.
01:46:34
Mad Ange
it just ah I don't know, like getting getting as i as I distanced from myself from alcohol, it was rough. And especially during, well, no, not during shutdown.
01:46:44
Mad Ange
was actually fucking easy because I was making art and I was happy. i was making more money than I've ever made in my life on the record and, ah and got to create art with that money.
01:46:54
Jo
things you love.
01:46:59
Mad Ange
Like hello, universal basic income. Thank you. um Starting businesses, helping friends start businesses, writing, like hanging out on Zoom with friends. i did I did a virtual burlesque show, which was interesting. Like I got to have so many cool experiences without leaving my house um and didn't have to worry. thats That's the big part. I didn't have to worry about paying my bills.
01:47:24
Mad Ange
And that was a weird, great feeling. I'm making art and don't have to stress that the power is going to get shut up or, um, yeah, I was going to say, it just went, thank that crazy Thanksgiving with was with the, with the ex.
01:47:31
Jo
It's a nice feeling. going Yeah. Speaking of, my light just went out. Jesus. I know, man. why What the fuck?
01:47:45
Mad Ange
We went to his his mom's house for Thanksgiving and we're sitting at the table mom, aunt, grandma, there's some uncles, there's some cousins, nieces, nephews, whatever.
01:47:58
Mad Ange
And at some point they're talking about um his late stepdad who he considered his dad. You know, he loved him very much. And somebody was like, yeah, remember you know the time he saw Bigfoot, one of the times he saw Bigfoot.
01:48:12
Mad Ange
And I'm all, okay, wait, now I'm going to stop eating. What's going on? What's this about Bigfoot? As they went around the table, Everybody had a Bigfoot story of the time they had seen Bigfoot, and including grandma.
01:48:27
Mad Ange
Grandma was like, oh, the for the the first time I said it, I'm like, the first time?
01:48:27
Jo
Oh, God.
01:48:30
Mad Ange
I'm so invested. I'm so invested in grandma's Bigfoot story. And this whole family has, like, they lived in the woods in, like, rural Colorado.
01:48:40
Mad Ange
They all had Bigfoot stories, and they all were like, he's such a nice man. We have to watch out for him so that nothing bad happens to planet.
01:48:48
Jo
Oh god.
01:48:49
Mad Ange
There was a point where I was like, okay, so is this like a, like, are you all like, is this a thing you do when new people come around to like weird them out? But until it got to grandma, grandma was so genuine, like tears in her eyes.
01:49:00
Mad Ange
Like, oh, he's such a nice man, that big foot.
01:49:02
Jo
a nice hairy man. it was just Italian, really, but that's still...
01:49:06
Mad Ange
We have to look out for him. Yeah.
01:49:15
Mad Ange
But yeah, I mean, I smoked a lot of weed. I tried smoking a lot of weed during shutdown to help me sleep. And then I smoked a lot of weed for a while, but I stopped smoking weed, too. I stopped smoking cigarettes. I stopped smoking weed. I stopped drinking alcohol.
01:49:29
Mad Ange
Like...
01:49:31
Jo
Fucking, have you seen Bigfoot lately? That's my question.
01:49:36
Mad Ange
Can't say that. It's witness protection, you know.
01:49:40
Jo
Lip Pro.
01:49:40
Mad Ange
It's a Vegas, baby. Yeah.
01:49:43
Jo
Yeah, well, there's some shit that... Hey, you know what? Actually, nothing came back with me in Vegas. That was nice. That's actually a cool stint.
01:49:51
Mad Ange
Oh, you're lucky. bunch of people got COVID.
01:49:55
Jo
Yeah, no, I...
01:49:55
Mad Ange
um I got a sinus infection. No COVID, though. So, yay.
01:50:01
Jo
Don't go touch wood.
01:50:02
Mad Ange
No, i went't got like they I did all the tests, flu, COVID, everything. Then they checked me again. and like No, you just have a sinus infection. like, cool.
01:50:13
Jo
Well, windy as fuck, too. so That's just all. Yeah. Especially that weekend, man.
01:50:18
Mad Ange
It's... Been windy as hell all day today Like it's I don't know if it's windy right now because I have headphones on And i have good headphones on Can't hear shit outside of my fucking Sennheisers Like But
01:50:28
Jo
Damn right. Legally through. on your face. Now, I'm going to ask one last question. One last question, Your Honor.
01:50:41
Jo
If you can go back to younger, you know, to tell younger you one thing, and I mean younger you, I mean like preteen, like maybe 13 and below.
01:50:53
Jo
what What advice would you give younger or you? What would you say?
Advice to Younger Self
01:50:59
Mad Ange
Okay. I would say follow your dreams. in fact i' Ignore all the critics, ignore all the people that tell you all that weird stuff you do, the the drawing, the writing, all that, all the people are going to tell you that it's, it's not a real job.
01:51:10
Jo
Yeah.
01:51:16
Mad Ange
It's nothing you can make a living at. You're not good at it, whatever. Like to ignore them, ignore them and just keep doing it because on the one hand, it's something that you're always going to come back to. That's, it's a part of who you are.
01:51:31
Mad Ange
It's the core of your being. You're always going to come back to it, but there is going to be a point where you realize that all those people were wrong and it is going to be what you make a living doing.
01:51:43
Mad Ange
So, um you know, just, and and you'll, you'll end up with a lot fewer complexes.
01:51:44
Jo
Yeah.
01:51:49
Mad Ange
So listen to them. Um, But just keep doing that. Keep being weird. Keep being creative. and keep falling in love.
01:52:01
Jo
There you go. Perfect. I love it. Keep being weird, but keep being creative, keep falling apart. I can't say it better than that, so I'm not going to. So I, first of all, thank we did we did two hours. We did two hours.
01:52:15
Jo
Or ah two hours in a big bird, depending on we cut out. But on behalf of myself and Mad Ange, remember, if you have someone who's in in your families, go, go, go, go crafty, crafty, crafty bats, and get, get, get, get that book, because it is amazing, because you are.
01:52:36
Jo
From myself, Joe, and my, and forbid you good day. bye everyone.
01:52:40
Mad Ange
Good