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S5 E5: Lee Hatfield — The Paranormal Prism, and Proving It Twice
7 Plays1 day ago
Lee Hatfield rebranded his podcast a week before we recorded this. SIPA Paranormal Chronicles is now The Paranormal Prism, he's stepping back as co-lead of the SIPA investigation team, and he's launched a second show with two UK podcasters. He's also eighteen months into a weekly release schedule I specifically told him not to attempt. We get into the medium whose money kept walking off in two different provinces, why the stick-figure cameras don't impress him, and the one question underneath his entire method: can you make it happen again?
Key Moments
- The rebrand. Paranormal Chronicles becomes The Paranormal Prism. One beam of light in, a spread of colours out. One question, six or eight possible answers.
- Paranormal Summat or Other. The new monthly show with Andy Booth (Alien8UK) and Tommy Cullum (Let's Get Freaky). Premiere was two hours of banter in England shirts.
- Weekly vs. bi-weekly. I said bi-weekly so he wouldn't burn out. He went weekly anyway and is booked solid to September. Six guests batched into two weeks, then a month off recording.
- Make it easy and they come. The one-sheet, the TidyCal link, and guests who now book themselves back onto the show without being asked.
- Ruling out the not-normal. Faulty wiring and EMF, the alarm clock beside your bed, carbon monoxide, black mould. All of it hands you hallucinations before a ghost gets a look in.
- The medium's missing money; SDG jail; The hand. Real life paranormal talks from the field.
- Poltergeist in the forest. Rocks thrown, knocks on trees, footprints. In a house you'd call that a poltergeist. So why does it stop being one under trees?
- Starting out. A logical mind, an audio recorder, a camera, a notebook and a pen. Not your phone. And have manners.
The takeaway
Rule out the obvious before you go looking for the not normal — then ask it to happen again. Belief is cheap. Repeatable is expensive.
Find Lee
- The Paranormal Prism on YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-zyT7fZF-Y-15XJfpBJgUQ
- The Paranormal Prism on TikTok — https://www.tiktok.com/@paranormalpodcasthost
- The Paranormal Prism on Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61592066402942
- Apple Podcasts — https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sipa-paranormal-chronicles/id1799596747
- Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/4mtVyd1Z3xbu7cEzfpZVDZ
- New Paranormal Prism episodes Fridays at 5pm Eastern. Paranormal Summat or Other drops monthly.
Gear mentioned
- Digital voice recorder — https://amzn.to/3ROZTeE
- Mel Meter — https://amzn.to/4wu2eL5
Empty Hell is an Amazon Associate. The links above are affiliate links, which means we earn a small commission on qualifying purchases at no extra cost to you. It helps keep the lights off around here.
All our links in one place: https://linktr.ee/Emptyhell
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Transcript
Intro
00:00:07
Lee
Five.
00:00:08
Jo
So yeah, that's why I call my dick Han Solo, because it shoots first.
00:00:08
Lee
Oh,
00:00:10
Jo
Hey, hey, everyone. <unk>re We're live with Lee Hatfield.
00:00:13
Lee
my.
00:00:15
Jo
He was telling me why he had a priapism. Oh, wait, what?
00:00:19
Lee
I was not.
00:00:21
Jo
Welcome to What's Kraken, as we're going to have Kraken today. Now, welcome to What's Kraken, special guest, Lee Hatfield. If you might know him of, formerly of,
00:00:34
Jo
the paranormal podcast, which is now the paranormal prism. Yes.
00:00:41
Jo
I just do a complete shit introduction for you.
00:00:42
Lee
Yes,
00:00:43
Jo
pretty sure. But.
00:00:45
Lee
you did. it was it was It was abysmal.
00:00:48
Jo
Well, I didn't know how much I could say out loud. I mean, I don't know how much i can say out loud.
00:00:50
Lee
Now you can say all out you can say it all out loud.
00:00:53
Jo
Yeah, but I didn't know. what i didn't know how much I had to I could say versus how much, you know, to hold back on that one. So.
00:01:00
Lee
So why didn't you ask me that before you started recording?
00:01:03
Jo
Fuck that. I want to get my Han Solo joke out. We're talking about prisms and stuff now. But it's just happy to.
00:01:11
Lee
Can't get the stuff.
00:01:12
Jo
I know. good It is nice to see you. And i will talk about the rebrand. I think it's interesting.
00:01:18
Lee
OK.
00:01:20
Jo
And just kind of like, this is what? You're past one year podcasting right now, aren't you? Is this one year?
00:01:27
Lee
No, it's 18 months.
00:01:29
Jo
Close. Oh, shit. Really?
00:01:33
Lee
Yeah, I started in February 2025, and it's now July 2026. 18 months-ish. and it's now july two thousand and twenty six
00:01:42
Jo
July 2026.
00:01:43
Lee
so like eighteen months ish
00:01:46
Jo
And you're still doing weekly? I'm curious. Are you still doing weekly?
00:01:50
Lee
Yes. Yeah, yeah, still doing one a week.
00:01:53
Jo
Minor weekly too. Very weak.
00:01:56
Lee
i've I've noticed.
00:01:59
Jo
So you're still doing one a week. What is change then? What is change? What's the major change? What's the shift? What's the prisming?
00:02:03
Lee
So basically because I got some opportunities available and I basically thought myself that I'm only one person. I've only got one pair of hands. I can only do so much.
00:02:19
Lee
So I'm taking a step back from SIPA, Scientific Investigation of Paranormal Activity.
00:02:25
Jo
Right.
00:02:28
Lee
by what What I mean by that is that I'm dropping off as a as the co-lead. I still might go out with them occasionally, but it will be as a normal investigator. And because I've got these other opportunities coming up, I decided to rebrand the podcast. So it was Paranormal Chronicles.
00:02:48
Lee
It's now the Paranormal Prison. But incorporating that, I've also started another podcast that is being monthly right now, where there's Andy Booth from Alienate UK, there's Tommy Cullum from the Let's Get Freaky podcast, and there's myself under the rebrand of the Paranormal Prism.
00:03:08
Jo
Cool. Nice.
00:03:14
Lee
And we are doing a podcast called Paranormal Summit or Other, which you can break down to something or other like. So it could be a bit of this, could be a bit of that.
00:03:25
Lee
and it's And it's basically going to be a review show of all the guests that we've had the previous month. So it's going to be monthly.
00:03:35
Jo
nice
00:03:35
Lee
And then we're going to talk about all our previous guests. And we're going to, if anything's in the in the news and the spotlight with regard to the paranormal, you know, perhaps a Gimli movie, at movie yeah all UFOs, then we're going to be talking about all that kind of stuff as well.
00:03:53
Jo
Right. That's very cool. So how did you get to meet them and why that podcast? like How did that come about? I'm curious.
00:04:00
Lee
So i stumbled across Tommy, not literally, because he's in the UK.
00:04:07
Jo
He was lying down.
00:04:08
Lee
Yes, he was. And I fell over him. I stumbled across him on another podcast, thought he'd got a really fabulous energy, reached out to him, and he was happy to come on as a guest.
00:04:22
Lee
So me and Tommy became friends and then I knew that he was he's friends with a lot of people. But one of the guys that I wanted to speak to was Andy Booth, who does Alienate UK.
00:04:39
Lee
And we created a WhatsApp chat together, and it's just full of banter.
00:04:45
Jo
Okay.
00:04:46
Lee
And then we decided that we would create a second podcast called Paranormal Summit or Other. And basically talk about previous guests and all that kind of stuff. So yeah we launched our premiere episode on Monday and it's just two hours of us shooting the shit with each other and giving each other crap.
00:05:12
Lee
All got England shirts on because it was before the Mexico game. And yeah, we're just having copious amount of banter and teasing each other.
00:05:18
Jo
Disgrace.
00:05:24
Jo
Well, that sounds amazing, man. And that's what is the generosity of maybe not so much a podcast world, the generosity of the paranormal world. And I think we had this conversation before when there was an ice storm.
00:05:37
Jo
was like Where do we meet? it was like, not Kingston. It was but Cornwall.
00:05:41
Lee
What you and I?
00:05:42
Jo
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not originally, but for that podcast talk, it was that one restaurant, but it was like not quite midway.
00:05:45
Lee
oh
00:05:51
Jo
Was it? Oxbury.
00:05:53
Lee
Oh, yeah, it was it was something you'd it was winter, somewhere down your neck of the woods.
00:05:57
Jo
Yeah. Yeah, it was like an ice storm that day, like my car is like, covered yeah.
00:05:58
Lee
It was it?
00:06:01
Lee
Yes, there was. Yeah, complete ice storm. Yeah.
00:06:04
Jo
Yeah. And then we're stuck. That was a while ago. The head be like, yeah, you went, here like two years.
00:06:08
Lee
Yeah, so that
00:06:09
Jo
ago
00:06:10
Lee
So yeah, so that that would have to have been probably between Christmas and New Year of 2024.
00:06:18
Jo
Oh, already.
00:06:18
Lee
Because I'd been on a podcast hosted by somebody else, and it was absolute caca.
00:06:22
Jo
Right.
00:06:27
Lee
And I...
00:06:27
Jo
That was mine, too. He's he's like, you know, Lee doesn't hold back.
00:06:29
Lee
It was yes. Yeah.
00:06:30
Jo
He's like, that was on your show, dude. It's just shit.
00:06:32
Lee
Yeah. And I literally decided that if I was going to do something like this, I could do it bigger and better.
00:06:41
Jo
Yeah.
00:06:41
Lee
Hence why you and i had that lunch date.
00:06:44
Jo
Yeah.
00:06:45
Lee
You because you've been I knew that you were doing podcasts already. And then I threw some ideas out and then you've helped me immensely ever since.
00:06:54
Jo
Oh, I was fishing for that one. Kidding. No, that's what I was going through the lineage because I remember during that time, think I said something along the lines of like the paranormal people, the community, like the paranormal family, we want to call them.
00:07:10
Jo
If you're good, There are so many good people that like they'll do anything for you.
00:07:17
Lee
Yeah.
00:07:17
Jo
there's There's a few rottens, of course, are always a few rotten people. But this community is so loving and so caring, mostly because if you give people an honest to God shake, this is what T&E channel does.
00:07:28
Jo
If you listen to them and let them tell their story, you can be skeptical. but they will open up and they will love you forever. and And that's what i'm saying. Like you now have a new podcast based upon just basically being you and being able to talk to people and listening to them and like encouragement, you know, goes both ways.
00:07:51
Jo
And that's a whole new branch. When you first started out, did you think you're going two podcasts, like completely different ones?
00:07:57
Lee
Absolutely not.
00:07:58
Jo
No.
00:07:58
Lee
Absolutely not.
00:07:58
Jo
Okay.
00:07:59
Lee
But even like at the weekend, Andy did two 12-hour podcasts, well, live podcasts over the weekend.
00:08:10
Lee
And he was getting different guests on throughout the day.
00:08:14
Jo
Right.
00:08:15
Lee
And just by me popping on there for a couple of hours each day, because yeah some people have lives and some people don't, I've now got two of the two new guests for the podcast because of people that i was talking to on his podcast.
00:08:26
Jo
amazing and That's good.
00:08:29
Lee
And we have started like swapping guests as well now.
00:08:30
Jo
That's good.
00:08:33
Jo
Yeah, it's it is a nice little family vibe. And if it's also kind of a small community, it's really amazingly small community, too. So if you do well on one show and you're a good hoes, people pass like that word around.
00:08:52
Jo
It's like wildfire that way. So one of the things I suggested that you ignored, you ignored. young man was, okay, do a schedule, for God's sakes, bi-weekly.
00:09:08
Jo
And you're like, oh, you started bi-weekly for a while. I'm like, oh, I can do weekly. I'm like, are you sure? Because that's like 52 episodes if you don't take any breaks, man.
00:09:16
Lee
OK. This is the reason why i ignored what you said.
00:09:20
Jo
Yeah. Because was me. Yeah.
00:09:23
Lee
At the time when I started bi-weekly, I was terrified of not having any guests.
00:09:32
Jo
Yeah. Very
00:09:33
Lee
I was starting out and people go, okay, new podcast. yeah And either it either succeeds or it doesn't. Within a few months, I had at least three months worth of guests.
00:09:51
Lee
So I took the plunge to go weekly, much against your better judgment. And it's exploded.
00:10:04
Jo
Yeah, it worked out.
00:10:05
Lee
on Yeah. And like even even now, with all the people that I've got coming up in the next two weeks, I've got enough episodes to last me until the 4th of September.
00:10:18
Jo
Oh, that's a special date. That's a great date. You should mark that date on your calendar, everyone. I won't tell you why, though, but that's a good date.
00:10:24
Lee
Is it your birthday?
00:10:25
Jo
Today? well happy birthday.
00:10:27
Lee
No, is it your birthday on the 4th of September?
00:10:30
Jo
Is it? Oh, I don't know. I mean, how would I know I was born? I had to take my mom's word for that.
00:10:35
Lee
Good point.
00:10:36
Jo
You know, do you remember when you're born? No.
00:10:39
Lee
Yes, I was there.
00:10:41
Jo
You were there? at Well, maybe i was there too. But I don't have a memory of it.
00:10:44
Lee
i would help you i would hope was there. yeah you might not remember it, but I'm pretty sure you were there.
00:10:50
Jo
Wow, you know.
00:10:51
Lee
and I don't think you were created in a bottle, to be fair. Well, but i have no I have known you for a few years, so you probably have but you probably were created in a bottle in a science lab.
00:10:55
Jo
Well, that would explain.
00:11:01
Jo
Yeah. I want in bottle and turn into another bottle. So and and that's one of those things about the advice was like, well, my I said that just to Sweden burnout, like, you know, you're starting a new project.
00:11:15
Jo
Don't burn out Don't burn out. You know, sometimes lack of guests will happen and some of that. And you just took to a mic and I'm so proud to see you doing weekly and weekly and weekly. You know, that's this that is pretty damn good.
00:11:26
Lee
yeah i And I took on board what you said about not burning out. But what I found out that I can do, I can have six guests in a two week period, for example, space them out, and then I don't have to have any for two or three weeks.
00:11:33
Jo
Yeah. Right. it.
00:11:47
Jo
right
00:11:48
Lee
Even a month. So that way I'm not burning myself out.
00:11:53
Jo
you just chain it
00:11:53
Lee
i can create I can create the schedule so that, like i say, I've got enough now to last me till September. I don't literally have to do any more, tap for any more guests until the middle of August and rolling in the middle of July now.
00:12:09
Jo
Yeah, no, that's that is pretty cool. and you are getting yours organically, more or less, right? Are you you're cold pitching people? You're people meeting people at the conventions and just saying, hey my name is.
00:12:23
Lee
Well, yeah, I went to a small convention in Ottawa the weekend and came away with two extra appointments, two podcast episodes.
00:12:30
Jo
Cool.
00:12:34
Jo
That's very cool. When you're doing this, what's your pitch like? Hey, this is my podcast. this is like We're going to talk about paranormal.
00:12:44
Lee
Yeah, well, basically, i introduce myself, I tell them who I am. And at the time, it was Super Paranormal Chronicles.
00:12:52
Jo
Right.
00:12:52
Lee
And basically, yeah, I host this podcast, I release it weekly. Yeah. And I basically go provide them all the information. And they some people call it a one sheet.
00:13:06
Jo
Yeah.
00:13:06
Lee
where you tell people who you are, what you do, what you're providing, how often the episode's coming out, and then you provide your social media. Do that kind of thing.
00:13:18
Lee
And the amount of people that go, oh, yes, there's all the information. Great. when can a book get yeah When can I come on your show?
00:13:27
Jo
and you're using yes I think you're still using TidyCal for that too?
00:13:33
Lee
Yes, so once I've made that initial con once i've made that initial con contact, I say, yeah, yeah literally, it says to show you how organized I am or what's that effect, I do have a scheduling app that I can send you and people go,
00:13:34
Jo
Even though they can be in ass?
00:13:37
Jo
Yeah.
00:13:50
Lee
People go, great, can you send me it? which Which I do. And then you know i mean i even get appointments come to me that I forgot I've sent.
00:14:03
Lee
Because it can be like two or three months down the road and like, ping, you have got another booking from
00:14:06
Jo
Yeah.
00:14:11
Jo
Yeah, like a reminder of. And then sometimes I learn about the Tidy Cal. Someone just sent me an email. said It does the auto. I don't know how to set this off. I should have set this off maybe.
00:14:21
Jo
It will write the guest and say, you're great on the show. Want to come back later? and I had a guest saying yes. I'm like, well, yeah, you're always welcome back. I'm like, shit, I didn't realize that was on. like Now I have to like Look into that.
00:14:36
Jo
Did anyone like ever like do that to you where they kind of invite themselves back through tiny cow.
00:14:37
Lee
I don't think...
00:14:42
Lee
I've had two people. I've had two... knots Well, they've already got the TidyCal link. I don't know if it's through TidyCal.
00:14:47
Jo
Right.
00:14:49
Lee
I've not really noticed.
00:14:50
Jo
Oh, right.
00:14:51
Lee
But I've had one person who... She's coming back in August, funnily enough. That'll be her third time. But she's she's pushing out books like there's...
00:15:03
Lee
like
00:15:04
Jo
Nice.
00:15:04
Lee
There's a shortage. And yeah, she loves talking about books. She's a great author. And she's absolutely a diamond to work with. So yeah, can I come back on?
00:15:13
Jo
Who is it?
00:15:15
Lee
It is Sin Schrader Hill.
00:15:18
Jo
And why don't I not have this person? I hope I didn't. My podcast, sir.
00:15:24
Lee
Probably because you haven't asked me.
00:15:26
Jo
Oh, well. Sure. Likely story. No, it sounds interesting. It honestly does sound interesting. And that's that's one thing. they They become evergreen because you can always talk about the paranormal, but they have a new book coming out.
00:15:40
Jo
And if they're allowing themselves to book them, at one point, guests are booking themselves in your show. How cool is that?
00:15:48
Lee
Yeah.
00:15:48
Jo
You don't have to look for people.
00:15:48
Lee
and
00:15:49
Jo
like They're booking themselves.
00:15:51
Lee
Yeah. And I've had another guy who's a mutual friend of ours who you put me in touch with first. And he messaged me and said, I've got a spare few weeks.
00:16:04
Lee
Has he got any vacancies on your show? Can I come on?
00:16:06
Jo
Cool.
00:16:07
Lee
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:16:09
Jo
Very cool. Yeah, and that's the power of it. Now, going to play devil's advocate. Who is the wise man that once said, make it easy for them to sign up and they will come.
00:16:25
Jo
If you're going back and forth, the email train gets lost. Make it easy.
00:16:29
Lee
pretty I'm pretty sure it's some guy from England.
00:16:33
Jo
He was in England, yes. I think I was at the time. Maybe even in England. No, but...
00:16:38
Lee
So what you want me to what you want me to say, Joe, it was it was you, Joe. It was you that did it.
00:16:44
Jo
It was me or Pazuzu from The Exorcist.
00:16:44
Lee
hamut how much more How much more kudos do you want?
00:16:51
Lee
I'm not even going to go there.
00:16:54
Jo
That's me or Pazuzu. but that's But that's exactly it So you're having all these things fall into place. And we had this conversation about doing a live podcast. You were you want the live one, right? How does that differ from what you do here?
00:17:10
Lee
Well, funnily enough, the person that was hosting the live, and I quote, the reason why I don't pre-record is because I can't be arsed to edit.
00:17:25
Jo
Spoiler alert. Neither it can Joe.
00:17:27
Lee
Yeah, and and that's basically it. I do mine pre-recorded because I have a schedule that I plan people and when they're going to get released.
00:17:34
Jo
Yeah.
00:17:36
Lee
but most of us are live and you haven't got all that BS of doing your post-production because boom, it's there.
00:17:44
Jo
Yeah.
00:17:45
Lee
Now the only thing, on.
00:17:46
Jo
Yeah. Go for it
00:17:48
Lee
Yeah.
00:17:48
Jo
No.
00:17:49
Lee
The only bad thing about that is like, yeah, if you get a storm, you get a power outage, you're done.
00:17:55
Jo
Absolutely. And I was about to warn you today that it's been like thunderstorms over by me. So if our power goes out, you know it's one of those things. But you're right. If it's live or if they cock up, you can't edit it out.
00:18:09
Jo
And was like, oh, I can't say that.
00:18:09
Lee
Yeah.
00:18:10
Jo
You're like, oh, you just did. and know So are you going towards for your paranormal prism? Do you want to do live shows?
00:18:23
Lee
Now, I don't think I do.
00:18:24
Jo
Or people?
00:18:25
Lee
Because, like you say, something can go wrong.
00:18:26
Jo
Right. Right.
00:18:29
Lee
Like, for example, i was booked to have somebody at the weekend. that they haven't got very good internet connection and they get the change in the provider.
00:18:42
Lee
And it it there was a lag or it was freezing. So I went, Okay, don't worry. But and she's been on before. It's like, Okay, well, let's just stop. And then come back on in two weeks when you've got when you're suited.
00:18:56
Lee
Oh, okay.
00:18:57
Jo
Exactly. And you can't do that live because then it looks like the gas is flaking on you or something.
00:19:00
Lee
Correct.
00:19:03
Jo
And it's just bad feelings. that They feel bad. You feel bad for them and stuff like that.
00:19:05
Lee
Yeah. And not I've actually been on a couple of podcasts in the last, well, this year, where I've been following like podcast pages and people come on and go is there anybody free tonight because my guests have just dropped out?
00:19:22
Lee
And I've done that twice now where I've actually popped onto to but other people's podcasts at short notice because I'm available.
00:19:25
Jo
Really?
00:19:32
Jo
That is kind of cool. Okay, man. Good for you. And this is going to get me to my next question. as i was I was thinking about all the things that we used to talk about. and we sometimes i still have a I have a book for you, by the way. have a book about astral travel.
00:19:48
Lee
Oh.
00:19:49
Jo
yeah And what was the, not so much the weirdest, not so much unbelievable, what was the most intense story you've heard on your podcast?
00:20:02
Lee
One that I tell everybody, I was taught, this will tell you who it was straight away, because no doubt you've heard this story.
00:20:10
Jo
Right. Okay.
00:20:10
Lee
Somebody who was born in America, but went to Thailand to learn to become an exorcist. and him and his girlfriend at the time went to this haunted location they picked up a a talisman she put it on and as soon as she put it on she flipped over into the into the crab position and then crawled up a world it all crawled up a wall backwards
00:20:48
Jo
So what you're saying is never put things you find on. Yeah.
00:20:54
Lee
Correct.
00:20:56
Jo
We're hearing this story. When you're hearing this story, is your immediate reaction going, oh, no, yeah they didn't actually put this on. Did they? Like, that's just irresponsible at some point.
00:21:05
Lee
Yeah.
00:21:05
Jo
Or did you like, I want to try that next.
00:21:09
Lee
Well, and that's it. you're You're always told about these things.
00:21:14
Lee
And then that's perfect evidence of something going bad.
00:21:21
Jo
There you are. And then you you actually have training in this, right? I remember correctly.
00:21:26
Lee
I won't say training per se, but I've been on a course to teach me the basics.
00:21:28
Jo
Classes. Right. Which is more than a lot of people do. I mean, that person went to Thailand to become one.
00:21:33
Lee
Yeah.
00:21:36
Jo
And then like there's different levels of training. You know you don't have to. We all can't be in Thailand. It's like you took coursework to make yourself more informed because yours is based upon scientific skepticism, right?
00:21:52
Lee
Yeah, yeah, so basically, Yeah, everybody has to have a skeptical mind.
00:21:58
Jo
Right.
00:21:59
Lee
And not everything is paranormal.
00:22:04
Jo
Right.
00:22:04
Lee
So you have to roll out the obvious before you start looking at the supernatural.
00:22:13
Jo
And that's part of your prism now.
00:22:15
Lee
Yeah, so if you think about a prism, you've got a triangle.
00:22:21
Lee
You get one beam of light going in. Ta-da!
00:22:25
Jo
Right.
00:22:27
Lee
just asked you that.
00:22:28
Jo
And the light just came out and did that.
00:22:30
Lee
Ta-da! Yeah. You get one piece of light going into a triangle, a glass prism, and then when it comes out the other side, you get all the different colors because of the angle of the prism.
00:22:35
Jo
Right.
00:22:42
Lee
And I thought that that was a really good yeah idea because you can ask one question But then there can be so many answers, so many different descriptions.
00:22:53
Jo
Right.
00:22:56
Jo
Yeah.
00:22:57
Lee
And the fact that I thought, well, yeah, how can I relate that into the paranormal? Just exactly how I've explained it. One question, but you've got multiple answers. Is my house haunted?
00:23:10
Lee
Yeah.
00:23:10
Jo
Yes, I just saw you like go on like that.
00:23:10
Lee
And you've got, yeah, exactly.
00:23:12
Jo
So it is hot.
00:23:13
Lee
did
00:23:13
Jo
can tell you that.
00:23:14
Lee
Yeah. And it's like, you know, there's so many... possible answers that you've got for that.
00:23:21
Jo
Right.
00:23:23
Lee
So that's what that's what gave me the idea about the prism, because it yeah it splits light up. It splits that one question into six to seven, eight different answers kind of thing.
00:23:33
Jo
no That makes sense. and Now for your inquiries, I'm guessing you cross off the easiest ones first. It's not this. This is easy.
00:23:40
Lee
Correct.
00:23:41
Jo
Cross, cross, cross, cross, cross.
00:23:41
Lee
Yeah. So for those people that don't know if you've got
00:23:42
Jo
Yes.
00:23:46
Lee
faulty wiring and it's giving off electromagnetic fields, if it's strong enough, it can cause you to have headaches, nausea, sickness and hallucinations.
00:24:00
Lee
Typical example, if you've got like an alarm clock by the side of your bed and when you're going through your sleep period, if you wake up and you see hallucinations, it's going to be because of the electromagnetic field with the bad wiring in your alarm clock.
00:24:18
Lee
It's not going to be paranormal. So once you take that alarm clock out the equation and all the hallucinations stop, then your place isn't haunted.
00:24:30
Lee
You had a natural problem. And the same goes for carbon monoxide. that can make you have hallucinations as well. Black mold if you.
00:24:40
Jo
Black bold. Yeah.
00:24:42
Lee
Yeah. So you have to roll out the obvious. Before you start investigating the not normal.
00:24:52
Jo
No, that's exactly, I think while I was telling you about my so my sleep process thing that one time, I do you have this? No. Did you do this? No, no, no, no. And my phone's always like the other side of the bloody room. don't have alarm clocks.
00:25:04
Jo
Like, I don't think i've had alarm clocks since I was like 20. You know, you just kind of get up and go, oh, it's time get up. But it is the ruling everything everything else out and then trying to piece stuff together.
00:25:17
Jo
Have you ever been stumped? Like you rule everything else out. You just don't know what it is.
00:25:23
Lee
Yeah, we had a medium contact at the beginning of the year. And she was having money going missing, food going missing, and other things being moved. I think I spoke to this about spoke it to but to about you.
00:25:44
Jo
Yeah.
00:25:45
Lee
And you go down the rational road first. Okay. Okay. your son lives lives in your house. Is there any chance that he's taken the money?
00:25:56
Lee
And then she goes, that was my first thought. But I've got two houses, one in Ottawa and one in California. And it happens in California and my son doesn't go with me.
00:26:07
Lee
Okay. And when the food goes missing, same kind of question. Well, your son's there. Did he have a late night snack?
00:26:18
Jo
in
00:26:18
Lee
Well, he said he didn't, but if he did, there would be evidence. would be the the the the snack bag in the garbage. yeah He wouldn't like hide it just to make... But then again, it was happening in the second location as well.
00:26:34
Lee
So she was telling us that this had been going on for a while, and she was losing hundreds of dollars, not all in one go, but in total.
00:26:47
Lee
So she invited us around to have an interview with her to see if we could figure out what's going on. And a few days before, she was speaking to another medium friend of hers who, as she put it, gave me a cleansing and she felt something come away from her.
00:27:05
Jo
Okay.
00:27:10
Lee
She doesn't know what it is, but she felt release, a light. yeah It felt lighter. So she was going to cancel us, but she decided to carry on with us going around there. So we're doing in the interview. And what we did, we set up in the kitchen.
00:27:27
Lee
Now, she lived on the on the third floor of an apartment block. So you come through the the door. You've got the lounge to the right. a small area where there's a table to the left and, yeah know, coat hooks and things.
00:27:42
Lee
If you carry straight on, you've got a small corridor. You've got the kitchen to the left, bathroom at the end, and two bedrooms on the right-hand side.
00:27:50
Lee
There's no windows in the bathroom because there's another apartment the other side of the wall. So there's no direct windows going in towards the kitchen.
00:27:59
Jo
Right.
00:28:01
Lee
We placed... On the kitchen table, a bag of chips, some chocolate, some and some money, a $5 bill. And then we had a camera pointing at it, and they we had what's called a melmeter, which picks up temperature and a few other things.
00:28:20
Lee
The interview lasted two hours. As we're quickly reviewing the evidence, we noticed the $5 move. But it didn't just move side to side. It looked like somebody had pushed it down from the top and flattened it out.
00:28:36
Lee
Now, we've shown many people this, and some people go, well, it could be a could be a draft. Yeah, but it can't be a draft because there's no windows direct and all the other doors were shut.
00:28:47
Lee
And if it was going to be a draft, it would blow the dollar bill sideways, not from straight down, and there wasn't a fan you know directly above it.
00:28:56
Jo
Yeah. I was thinking like the table wasn't level and stuff like that. Maybe the table is not level. or Maybe this, maybe that, right?
00:29:02
Lee
Yeah, but if that's the case, it would the whole dollar bill would move, not just the top end of it and not just pushing down. yeah And I sped up the mouse just so you could see it quicker because it it was really slow when it actually did it, and it literally just pushed it down.
00:29:13
Jo
Yeah.
00:29:19
Jo
Yeah, it goes.
00:29:22
Lee
And someone says, well, it was folded up in the guy's wallet before he got there, and it's increasing itself. But again, you would see the entire dollar bill move, not just...
00:29:33
Lee
the top inch or so.
00:29:36
Jo
Yeah, I was thinking, like, the, because Canadian, we're talking about Canadian money, people are, like, wondering if it's an actual dollar. Canadian money is basically this, like, plastic polymer. It's not, like, anything like, but I don't have any here, obviously, but...
00:29:51
Jo
And my idea was like, well, maybe it's just expanding down normally, or just settling normally, or maybe there was water, whatever's underneath it, like, you know, evaporating, like, you never know if I don't set the trick up, I don't I want to see what the trick is and like, okay, this is how I've done it.
00:30:05
Lee
Yeah, but be the the whole note would move in some way, shape or form, not just the the top inch.
00:30:06
Jo
I would have done two pictures. ice
00:30:16
Lee
like put Like someone's pushing it down. Someone's someone's pushing it down like this.
00:30:21
Jo
Right.
00:30:21
Lee
Yeah. If it was a dollar bill, the entire thing would move, not just a ticket.
00:30:26
Jo
Is that Canadian money?
00:30:28
Lee
Yeah.
00:30:30
Jo
was like That was Canadian money.
00:30:30
Lee
ticket
00:30:31
Jo
I have no idea.
00:30:31
Lee
yeah
00:30:31
Jo
I just saw the colors.
00:30:32
Lee
yeah
00:30:32
Jo
Like, oh, is that 50? Right.
00:30:34
Lee
Yeah, so we can roll out quite a few natural things. Yeah, there was there was a glass dish and the table on the table. But again, if it was if the dollar bill was cold or the plate were your plate was warm, it would still be the entire dollar bill, not just an inch of it that was moving.
00:30:57
Jo
Now, this is my follow-up question. Do it again. Can you guys do it again?
00:31:05
Lee
Well, that's it, you see.
00:31:06
Jo
Repeatable.
00:31:06
Lee
We we haven't been back.
00:31:06
Jo
Yeah.
00:31:09
Jo
Oh.
00:31:10
Lee
she Now, she did have another incident where nobody was at home apart from her And she heard running up and down that corridor and somebody outside her bedroom door. Her son was away for the weekend, there was nobody. And even the dog went to the door to try to like, yeah, she's only got a small yappy little dog.
00:31:37
Lee
It's not like, yeah I'm going to protect your mom. But then she called it back onto the bed.
00:31:39
Jo
More attachment.
00:31:41
Lee
So she called me after that. And I said, well, okay, you've got a couple of options. She belonged to a spiritualist church. So went, right, speak to the head of the church, tell them what's going on, because for a medium to be experiencing poltergeist activity, you'd kind of think that they would have an idea what it was.
00:32:04
Lee
So, yeah, so i got them I got her to reach out to her church leader
00:32:04
Jo
attachment
00:32:11
Lee
I also got her to speak to the person that did the cleansing a few days before to see what else she could do. And then I also suggested to her that she bought a couple of cameras in like a T-shape, so then you could see if anything was occurring.
00:32:26
Jo
That's pretty smart.
00:32:29
Jo
part
00:32:30
Lee
And yeah, I don't know if things have just died a death and we've not heard anything, but we've not heard from her for a while now. so I don't know if things have resolved, but.
00:32:40
Jo
you know and It'll be interesting, man. And that's all very good advice, honestly. Like, talk to the spiritual, get the teeth, the cameras, and teeth who get all angles and stuff like that. if If paranormal activity caught us anything, you need cameras.
00:32:54
Jo
But honestly, actually do need cameras, especially if things are being moved. So, gut impression, I'm saying attachment. Sounds like it. What do you think?
00:33:03
Lee
Now.
00:33:05
Lee
The word attachment was put out there.
00:33:09
Jo
Hmm.
00:33:09
Lee
And then she said, and this is the weird part, everything started happening because she does readings in her own house.
00:33:21
Jo
Right.
00:33:22
Lee
Everything started to happen after this one person came for a reading. So we were wondering if this person had some sort of attachment themselves and it was their way of dumping that attachment onto somebody else and the fact that she was a medium it would probably be that easy jump across yeah
00:33:49
Jo
Shiny new object. Yeah. Oh, let's give a new play thing. Okay. Now, I've that question to you, sir.
00:34:01
Jo
That sounds very interesting. If she ever comes back, do you want to go together? Investigate? I'll go with.
00:34:07
Lee
Sure, we can do that, yeah.
00:34:08
Jo
Sounds like my thing. like I'll even i'll even to give a cleansing for free.
00:34:10
Lee
i got And i've i've even got I've even got little cameras that we could set up discreetly, and like you could even do it while her son's not there, for example, so he doesn't know that these where these cameras are situated.
00:34:13
Jo
Well, lunch.
00:34:23
Jo
where they are.
00:34:25
Lee
And they're motion detected as well, so they won't go on.
00:34:26
Jo
Yeah.
00:34:30
Lee
They can obviously turn them off during the daytime, so there's no personal yeah personal things that you shouldn't be seeing.
00:34:30
Jo
Yeah.
00:34:36
Jo
Right. Just the unexpected stuff at night.
00:34:39
Lee
Yeah, yeah. So at nighttime, when you go to bed, you click them on, and you've got two fields of view, which covers the corridor and covers the lounge.
00:34:48
Jo
You know, it would be funny though.
00:34:48
Lee
And then, yeah.
00:34:49
Jo
We did all that and it turns out to be a mouse.
00:34:53
Jo
Just a mouth.
00:34:53
Lee
I don't think mice wear like big heavy boots running up and down a corridor.
00:34:58
Jo
No, but fairies wear boots. You better believe it. Oh, because it is Ozzy Day. That's why I had to do that. Ozzy Osbourne Day today. So fairies wear boots.
00:35:05
Lee
It is.
00:35:06
Jo
Yeah.
00:35:06
Lee
There go.
00:35:08
Jo
So yeah that sounds interesting. And that's the thing. Just organically talking about it, it makes me want to go explore it. I think that's part of the paranormal.
00:35:19
Jo
It's not like you're talking about like Fairbanks, Alaska. I'm like, I'm not going to Fairbanks, Alaska.
00:35:23
Lee
yeah and
00:35:23
Jo
<unk> i'll do and I'll do California or Ontario. Honestly, I'll do it California a minute.
00:35:28
Lee
yeah and the thing is though yeah yes I could have reached out but the fact that she hasn't reached out either makes me think it may have gone quiet and she has no reason to reach out yeah because yeah if she's she goes on the circuit and does a lot of reading she might be out of town you don't know
00:35:39
Jo
Right.
00:35:43
Jo
Or just like hectic right now. Like,
00:35:50
Jo
True. True that. It would be really interesting. Now, is there any place you said you you if she reaches out, obviously, that would be a good thing to go follow up. Is there any place you did twice? I know you guys did investigations. Any place you did twice?
00:36:06
Lee
We've done SDG jail in Cornwall. We've done that two or three times. And this is where you've been involved as well. Not there in person, but the but the after effects.
00:36:17
Jo
jail.
00:36:20
Lee
So the very first time I went was the the double breath incident on review. And I sent you the audio and you broke it down and went,
00:36:31
Lee
This is your voice, Wade. This is mine. This is me banging on the table.
00:36:33
Jo
Yeah.
00:36:34
Lee
And this is what you heard.
00:36:35
Jo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:37
Lee
And then we went back there about three months later, and I i had another EVP unexplained. There was three of us sat in the room. I was walking up and down. The other two were seated.
00:36:51
Lee
And we had another EVP. One of them was talking at the time, so it definitely wasn't him. And the other one was further away and quiet. And I got an EVP and as soon as I picked it up in review, I'd got a body cam on, I'd got an audio device and I got a camera.
00:37:08
Lee
I stopped what i was doing. I went to the other two devices, got the timestamp and I could hear it on all three devices, but I never heard it at that moment in time.
00:37:20
Jo
So was a true EVP where it only appears to the actual electronics.
00:37:25
Lee
Yeah, and I'm not sure if I for told you, but that's where you and I are going in the fall.
00:37:25
Jo
yeah
00:37:31
Jo
Nice. I get the fall.
00:37:34
Lee
they haven't released they haven't release They haven't released the dates yet, but.
00:37:38
Jo
Okay. No, I love that. And it's third time's a charm. If you got two EVPs so far, like the third time, I'm going to find the amulet and I'm to put it on. No, I'm not finding anything there.
00:37:50
Jo
I'm not going to put anything up.
00:37:51
Lee
i would I would record the shit out of that if you did that.
00:37:55
Jo
Yeah, you know, at this point, if they fix my shoulder doing it, yeah, you know, I'll take one for the team.
00:37:55
Lee
I'd be like... Yeah.
00:38:03
Lee
Now, got asked a while ago is, have I ever brought back an attachment?
00:38:12
Jo
Yes. that's how
00:38:13
Lee
And I said, no but I wish I had. and And people are going, what, why? And I went... If you bring back an attachment and it starts doing weird shit in your apartment, think what evidence you can get.
00:38:28
Lee
I would use it as a, yeah, I would use it as a scientific experiment.
00:38:28
Jo
Yeah, you don't have to go out something else.
00:38:33
Jo
Yeah, until it uses your body for a skin suit.
00:38:36
Lee
Then Kelly's going, you're not.
00:38:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:38:39
Lee
so
00:38:39
Jo
Like, no yeah, we both do not wish to be anything like, we always say goodbyes.
00:38:39
Lee
Yeah.
00:38:43
Jo
We always do those.
00:38:44
Lee
Yeah, that's it.
00:38:44
Jo
Yeah, no, that's so.
00:38:46
Lee
But if it did, yeah they don't normally come in all guns blazing. You normally get like a little bit of of activity, then a little bit more and a little bit more, and it builds builds into a crescendo like yeah in the in the film Poltergeist where you've got the room and everything spinning around.
00:38:54
Jo
I creep up.
00:39:02
Lee
But if you did and you were getting evidence, I've got all the cameras, I could record it, and I've got 100% evidence. So how cool would that be?
00:39:12
Jo
Yeah, but it's 100% evidence only if you live. Did you see the endings of these movies? I don't think you've seen the endings of these movies, Lee. They all die.
00:39:20
Lee
Yeah, but all these but all these movies are in America.
00:39:22
Jo
Horribly so.
00:39:24
Lee
The English do things differently, do things different.
00:39:26
Jo
Oh, the English ones. Yeah.
00:39:28
Lee
We don't go into a dark kitchen and say, is there anybody there? We just get the crap out of there.
00:39:32
Jo
Come on here.
00:39:34
Lee
We go, nope, where you guys will go, is there anybody there? And the killer's going, yeah, I'm just making a sandwich. I'll be with you in two ticks.
00:39:41
Jo
because of
00:39:42
Lee
Yeah.
00:39:43
Jo
Yeah, well, although if you do that, it means the apartment's free. Like, oh, I can get a place in Canada now. I didn't want to say where you live. like I was like trying to broaden the scope to Canada.
00:39:56
Jo
Somewhere in Canada, I'll get a place. That's one way of doing it. what i if it were If you knew the place was haunted or reported to be haunted, would you live there?
00:40:08
Jo
Would you like sign up?
00:40:08
Lee
Absolutely.
00:40:10
Jo
Would you? Okay.
00:40:11
Lee
Because if you think about it, if you get if you get like manifestations that are floating, then you don't have to get a step ladder for decorate. You could just stand on it.
00:40:22
Lee
And then, so okay, can you just go up a bit? I just need to paint this part of the ceiling.
00:40:28
Jo
Or the poltergeist just put some glitter.
00:40:28
Lee
Job done.
00:40:30
Jo
It'll like do this with the glitter.
00:40:32
Lee
Yeah.
00:40:34
Jo
the entire thing is done for Christmas.
00:40:34
Lee
to it Talking about poltergeist. I heard this amazing new theory Monday night, when i but i the episode's coming out on Friday.
00:40:46
Jo
Right.
00:40:48
Lee
This guy wrote a book about the poltergeist in the forest. Right? So if you think about it, if you go investigating for Sasquatch or Bigfoot, you go into the forest environment,
00:41:06
Lee
You get pebbles or rocks thrown at you, point number one. You get bangs on trees and noises, point number two.
00:41:17
Lee
You get mysterious footprints, point number three. And you get yeah other things moving and other noises, point number four. If you put that into a domestic environment like a house, what have you got?
00:41:37
Lee
You've got a poltergeist.
00:41:37
Jo
I get my my marriage. What was it? No.
00:41:39
Lee
Yeah, you've got a poltergeist.
00:41:39
Jo
Yeah. Oh, that too.
00:41:42
Lee
So who's saying that a poltergeist cannot be in a forest?
00:41:42
Jo
was my second time.
00:41:47
Lee
Because if they don't if they don't have any sightings of these creatures, but they're getting things thrown at them and they're getting noises and stuff like that, who says it can't be a poltergeist in the forest?
00:41:56
Jo
But what would they what would the the the localization be? Would it be an old house? wouldn't it be Isn't a poltergeist something that's localized to the domestic?
00:42:06
Lee
No, no. Well, we don't know because we' we've been unable to to like study them. And yeah, there is talk to say that a poltergeist can be attached to adolescent teenagers that are going through the stresses of growing up.
00:42:16
Jo
Right.
00:42:25
Lee
But there's also been other instances of where it's happened with adults and such.
00:42:25
Jo
right
00:42:31
Lee
But there's nothing to say that a poltergeist has to be in a domestic property.
00:42:39
Jo
So this guy's theory is when you're out in the middle of woods and things are going askew, it could be poltergeist.
00:42:52
Lee
Yeah, could be. Not that it is, it could be.
00:42:54
Jo
Right. It could be. Did he do a lot of research on this? I mean, does he kind of go out in the woods and try to find them? Right.
00:43:02
Lee
I know he's wrote a book on it. that That was one of the books that we discussed in the in the podcast.
00:43:05
Jo
Cool.
00:43:07
Lee
But it kind of got me thinking. It's like, what if, that yeah, there's a lot of people that say, yeah, Bigfoot's real, Sasquatch is real, et cetera, et cetera. But a lot the time, they don't get any any physical like pictures of what's happening.
00:43:26
Lee
So who says that the forest can't be haunted?
00:43:31
Jo
A lot of mythology has the force like forest nymphs.
00:43:34
Lee
Yeah.
00:43:34
Jo
and like
00:43:35
Lee
Elementals, imps, fairies.
00:43:37
Jo
yeah They all come. They wear boots again. Ozzy day.
00:43:40
Lee
Yes, exactly. But it was it was a fascinating comment. And I'm thinking, like, wow. I've never thought about before, but it's quite easily practical.
00:43:49
Jo
That's pretty cool. And so you're learning things on your podcast then. You're learning more about the paranormal.
00:43:56
Lee
one hundred 100% every single podcast I do, I'm learning something.
00:44:01
Jo
Interesting. And this is, okay, if you were to suggest when someone's getting into the paranormal, first steps, what would that be for you? What are the first steps of getting into the paranormal for you?
00:44:13
Lee
Learn to walk before you can run. So what I mean by that is don't go out and buy all the bells and whistles. The only thing you really need is a sane mind.
00:44:28
Lee
So that counts you and I straight out.
00:44:29
Jo
say I'm kind of.
00:44:30
Lee
Yeah, a logical mind, sceptical if you want, because then you can rule out the obvious.
00:44:33
Jo
I got that.
00:44:38
Lee
But an audio device, a camera and a notebook and pen, that's pretty much it.
00:44:43
Jo
And don't use your phone as the audio device because.
00:44:46
Lee
Correct. Do not use your cell phone.
00:44:50
Jo
Right. Flight mode or safe. Was it not safe mode? It's flight mode, right?
00:44:55
Lee
airplane Airplane mode.
00:44:55
Jo
Airplane mode.
00:44:56
Lee
Yeah.
00:44:56
Jo
you
00:44:56
Lee
yeah Yeah.
00:44:57
Jo
my mind, wait for a second.
00:44:58
Lee
Yeah.
00:44:58
Jo
There
00:44:58
Lee
So all these, all these apps that are on the phones, most of them are kind of, yeah, they're there for, yeah.
00:45:09
Jo
You know, that that they have little lights and flashing woo-woos and stuff like that, but that's about all. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree.
00:45:15
Lee
But there is one there is there is one app that someone has developed from the UK that apparently has been getting some interesting results.
00:45:27
Jo
Interesting to see. Have you used anything in the field that, whereas technology-wise, that you got, like, this has to be, like, paranormal? I don't mean the EVPs.
00:45:40
Jo
I know you guys use cat balls, and you use, like, the obelisk? Is that the obelisk?
00:45:47
Lee
The you got the other.
00:45:48
Jo
Or the Oculus?
00:45:49
Lee
Yeah.
00:45:50
Jo
Yeah, I got the...
00:45:52
Lee
So the thing is, they were cat balls. A lot of people say they're a toy. And yes, they are right. It is 100% cat toy.
00:46:00
Jo
right.
00:46:01
Lee
However, what the team have done in the past, they have something that's called a geophone, which is basically it's a vibration device. So you put it on a table, you bang the table, it goes off.
00:46:16
Lee
So what we do, we will always put the cat ball on top of it. Bag the table, both of them go off. Yeah, it's a vibration from the table. But if only one goes off and not the other, and it does it on command,
00:46:33
Lee
then you've got to excuse me then you've got to kind of look at it from a different angle. yeah Yes, yeah batteries could be low or whatever. But if you say, know, if you assume that spirits and entities are at present, go up and touch that top device out the two or touch the bottom one, and one of those goes off and not the other, well, it's not a vibration because both of them are vibration controlled.
00:47:00
Lee
So what is it?
00:47:02
Jo
It's you using the proper word device instead of go touch that electronics, you whippersnapper from the 1800s.
00:47:09
Lee
Well, that's another thing. i don't use it don't like using the term device either because in the 1800s, I'm only using that because you're modern day person-ish.
00:47:19
Jo
Thank you.
00:47:20
Lee
But i always if I'm on investigation, it's that toy or that box with the light on.
00:47:20
Jo
I'm stylish.
00:47:28
Jo
Right.
00:47:28
Lee
Because they're going to know what a light is because they had yeah even had flame torches back in the day or candles. So they know what a light is. So go up to that that object. Go up to that toy. Go up to that box.
00:47:40
Jo
They
00:47:40
Lee
Touch it. It will make a noise. I promise you it won't hurt you. yeah And that kind of thing. And you explain to them what it is you're putting in front of them. You're treating them like a human being because potentially back in the back in the day, they were a human being.
00:47:56
Jo
were.
00:47:58
Lee
So treat them with respect. Treat them yeah like you're talking to to your best friend. Say please, say thank you.
00:48:05
Jo
Right.
00:48:06
Lee
And be courteous.
00:48:06
Jo
I agree.
00:48:08
Lee
Don't antagonize them because... I've seen episodes where people have have tried to antagonize them, and they've got absolutely zip. I go away somewhere else by myself, and I get evidence because I'm courteous, I'm polite.
00:48:24
Lee
But it's so it's all about doing things getting things on command as well. Because people use the term, well, that came on, but it was a coincidence. But how often does something have to happen before it stops becoming a coincidence?
00:48:39
Jo
300. 20. Blue. twenty blue i have thought that was a question.
00:48:40
Lee
okay
00:48:43
Jo
Sorry. No, but that's exactly it. And and I'm glad you brought... and i I think everyone who does paranormal investigations or, you know, experimentations, when they're on the show, we can all name people who are like, I'm going to yell at you. going to do like, well, what are you doing for it? Like if, if, if the spirit's there, now you're just yelling at a dead person. What's that about?
00:49:10
Jo
And if the spirit's not there, now you're just yelling through the air, but even weirder. And if it's, if it's not, if it's a non-human entity, now you're pissing something off.
00:49:15
Lee
Yeah.
00:49:20
Lee
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:20
Jo
Like that's even worse. whats There's no winning there.
00:49:23
Lee
Yeah.
00:49:23
Jo
Just, just be polite.
00:49:24
Lee
No, it's not. Yeah. if it If it did used to be a human entity, then treat it with disrespect. You are in their house. if If they used to live there and you're walking around going, come on, you bastard, show yourself.
00:49:34
Jo
Yeah. Show myself.
00:49:39
Lee
They're going to go like, who's this idiot? I'm not talking to you. Yeah, you're in my property.
00:49:44
Jo
so
00:49:45
Lee
Get the hell out.
00:49:47
Jo
exactly Or you're in my woods, then throw us down on you more.
00:49:50
Lee
Yeah.
00:49:51
Jo
so what do you okay Then I'll ask i'll ask a this question as as we come to a close.
00:49:51
Lee
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:58
Jo
and By the way, weekly weekly, what day does your show go out? The Paranormal Prism.
00:50:05
Lee
Friday's at 5pm.
00:50:07
Jo
5 p.m. Eastern Time.
00:50:08
Lee
Eastern.
00:50:09
Jo
That's it.
00:50:09
Lee
Eastern time. E-S-T.
00:50:10
Jo
Correcto mundo. So... What is one thing technology-wise you want to work with but you haven't had a chance?
00:50:20
Lee
I know a lot of people are against it for various reasons, and I'll explain why in a minute. But i I'd love to have like a, I can't mean what you call it, the the stick figure camera kind of things.
00:50:36
Jo
this Okay.
00:50:36
Lee
SLS camera. Yeah, or the XLS, which is the color one, to put them to the test, just to see how how good and reliable.
00:50:43
Jo
Yeah.
00:50:45
Lee
However, For shits and giggles, I had an app on my phone that did exactly that. It was but yeah it was an app version of the, like, I can't know what SLS is now.
00:50:54
Jo
yeah
00:51:03
Lee
i'm not I've not said it for a while. But yeah basically, if there's a spirit there, it creates it into a stick figure. So i've got I had an app on my phone, and I went down to take the recycling.
00:51:14
Lee
So you have to walk through the garage, and you go to a room that's off the garage where all your recycling bits and bobs are.
00:51:19
Jo
right.
00:51:22
Lee
And there must have been an electrical fault with the door because you hit the but you hit the the button, door electronically opens. You walk in, it closes behind you, but then it will try to keep opening because there was electrical fault.
00:51:39
Lee
So just as a bit of a giggle, I thought myself, it would be really cool if there was a spirit. So I got my phone out onto this particular app. Now, on the door, there's a sticker that says, please don't exit fast.
00:51:57
Lee
There might may be cars going past go past the door.
00:51:59
Jo
Right.
00:52:01
Lee
So it's a safety message. And because it was picking up that sticker, that circular sticker, it was trying to create it into a stick figure. That was the head.
00:52:13
Jo
Yeah.
00:52:13
Lee
Yeah, yeah. And then it was trying to create the rest of it. So, yeah, I know it was complete BS, but it was funny by the fact that the door had got an electrical fault.
00:52:25
Lee
And then when I got this app, just for a laugh, it actually came up with a stick figure just coincidentally at the right time.
00:52:33
Jo
See, that's this is stuff like that. And then there you go. if if There would be people like, oh my God, that's definite proof. Right there, paranormal. And you're like, no, it's a damn sticker.
00:52:44
Jo
It just happened that the the app picks up in the shape and they go, like a child would, you know?
00:52:44
Lee
Yeah.
00:52:50
Lee
That's it. And if yeah if you're in a property and you've got like over over the other side of the room, I've got my telescope on a tripod.
00:53:00
Jo
Right.
00:53:00
Lee
If I got one of those cameras and moved it across because it's simulating a human standing up kind of thing, even though it's got three legs, but it would pick up the two legs.
00:53:12
Lee
It would try to create it into a human formation.
00:53:12
Jo
Right. It's basically looking at clouds.
00:53:19
Lee
Yeah.
00:53:19
Jo
It's trying to make the sense out of a cloud shape.
00:53:21
Lee
That's it. any anyway And if you've got a mop bucket, you've got the the straight thing of the mop. Again, it's going to try to put it into a stick figure.
00:53:29
Jo
Yeah.
00:53:30
Lee
However, if you take one of these into a warehouse that's completely empty or a field, where where it's just like, there's nothing there. And there's nothing for it to try to pick on, pick up on.
00:53:47
Jo
right
00:53:48
Lee
And then you get those kind of shapes and figures. What's causing it? It could have a completely natural explanation. But it's got to have something to pick up on.
00:54:01
Jo
So we should do an experiment. because we have to we do If it picks up on one field, have to keep going back to see if it keeps picking up.
00:54:07
Lee
Yeah.
00:54:08
Jo
If it's one off, it could be anything random. but If it keeps picking up, then we to figure out what it is.
00:54:11
Lee
It could. And then, a yeah, okay, I i i stood 20 steps from the fence or the from the gate.
00:54:20
Jo
Right.
00:54:20
Lee
I've now got 100 or 200 feet in front of me. This is the exact spot that I stood before. I'm pointing in the same direction,
00:54:32
Lee
and I get nothing or I get something. Then you have to try to repeat it.
00:54:36
Jo
I think that's it. It's repeat repeatability. I think that's... It's just science. like That's the scientific aspect of it.
00:54:43
Lee
Yeah.
00:54:43
Jo
You have to be able to repeat it. you don't repeat it...
00:54:45
Lee
Yeah.
00:54:46
Jo
sorry. It's like hit my mic. I don't keep hitting my mic, it just shit happens.
00:54:51
Lee
Yeah. and if
00:54:51
Jo
It's like the outlier. or I guess the outlier.
00:54:53
Lee
Exactly. And if you're if you kind of try to replicate the same, like you said, the same test day in, day out, so we we have a little bell.
00:55:04
Jo
Yeah.
00:55:07
Lee
it Basically, it's a bell that they used to have at the reception desk at a hotel.
00:55:12
Jo
Right.
00:55:13
Lee
and it's got some wires and things it's supposed to be able to pick up electromagnetic fields. And you get the ding of the bell. If you ask whatever's there to touch that bell, it will go off.
00:55:29
Lee
But if it's picking up other electrical fields, it's also going to go off. But if you ask it to touch it, and it goes off to on command, and then you ask it again, and it goes off on command, and you ask it again, and it goes off on command, that's not an electromagnetic field.
00:55:54
Jo
No, that's Han Solo. see, bring it back to the beginning joke.
00:55:55
Lee
Yeah. but don't Yeah. So that could, yeah.
00:55:58
Jo
But that's exactly right. I agree. agree, absolutely. It's repeatable. That's what an experiment has to be.
00:56:03
Lee
Yeah.
00:56:04
Jo
The results have to repeatable. Can you repeat this? Can repeat this? Can repeat this? Yes. And that's, I believe, the large difference between you and a lot of them, a lot of the investigation, a lot of the shows, is you don't want disbelieve, but You really want a question
00:56:25
Lee
Yeah, and that that's it.
00:56:26
Jo
You're really questioning
00:56:27
Lee
And a typical example, i think I told you this, but not on a podcast. Last December, we went to an investigation between you and me, about halfway.
00:56:42
Lee
And we're upstairs in this building, and i and the the building's cut the the roof is quite sharp, so it's got cutouts to where the windows are, so it's like a little alcove.
00:56:52
Jo
Right?
00:56:54
Lee
So I've got my back to the window and I'm, know, if there's anybody there, can you please make a sign, make a sound, yada, yada, yada. And I'd got my thumb in my left pocket and my pants, but the rest of my hand was hanging outside.
00:57:13
Lee
My elbow was sticking out and I felt like something wrapped its child hand around my three fingers.
00:57:24
Jo
right.
00:57:25
Lee
And it just felt like a child came up and grabbed my three fingers. So my initial thought was it's got to be cobwebs because the upstairs was a little bit forlorn. It it needs revamping into yeah how it used to look, but they got to raise money to do this.
00:57:47
Lee
So and then thought, well, it can't be cobwebs because if my my hand is in my pocket and my elbow is sticking out, my shoulder and my elbow is going to take out any cobwebs that are hanging down anywhere.
00:58:02
Jo
Right.
00:58:03
Lee
And it happened below that. And you're not going to get a cobweb hanging in the middle of nowhere.
00:58:09
Jo
No, it has to attach to something.
00:58:10
Lee
Yeah, and I'd literally been stood in that position for five or 10 minutes. So if there had been any other cobwebs there, I would have pushed them out the way with my body.
00:58:24
Lee
But it literally felt like a little hand grabbed my three fingers.
00:58:30
Lee
I can't explain what happened. I don't know what what caused it. I'd like to think it was something spiritual.
00:58:39
Jo
What did you do? What did you do?
00:58:41
Lee
Well, I did ask you if you are here, could you please do that again?
00:58:47
Jo
Right.
00:58:48
Lee
Didn't get a response. But we had cameras set up at different locations and even the guy monitoring the cameras, he says, what happened? Because he says, I saw you stop and you're looking around.
00:59:01
Lee
I says, well, it felt like my hand had been held.
00:59:05
Lee
But I've got no rational explanation for that.
00:59:08
Jo
That's interesting. And this is a place you've been to once, yes?
00:59:13
Lee
Correct.
00:59:16
Jo
Another place to go back.
00:59:18
Lee
And it's halfway between us, so it will be ideal.
00:59:20
Jo
Perfect. It's absolutely perfect. So week an hour we covered a lot, sir. We covered a lot. We covered a little, we covered a lot. We covered both. And I just want to say thanks again for everything, honestly, and just coming on the podcast, but I got absolutely everything.
00:59:33
Lee
You're most welcome.
00:59:36
Jo
You know, I always say most of my friends are where you live. I won't say where you live, but it's like, yeah, it's, it's so bizarre. We just kind of like click and always like, you know, it must be the the English tea in me.
00:59:49
Jo
I'm not sure, but it's up.
00:59:50
Lee
It's 6 o'clock in the morning somewhere.
00:59:53
Jo
Yeah. I don't know. You know, you know, And that's going to go to every every week. Fridays, yes? At what time again?
01:00:04
Jo
5
01:00:05
Lee
5 PM Eastern.
01:00:08
Jo
p.m. Eastern Time, Fridays, the Paranormal Prism with Lee Hatfield and Monthly coming out.
01:00:17
Lee
Paranormal summit or other.
01:00:17
Jo
What's that one? Something on there. and what When is that coming out? The first episode already dropped, right? It was Monday.
01:00:24
Lee
The first episode's dropped. we We haven't got a complete schedule yet, but obviously it will be probably about four weeks from Saturday. So literally middle of the month every month.
01:00:38
Jo
That's very cool. And then where can we find you on the interwebs? You got TikTok, Tommy Rock.
01:00:43
Lee
So I've rebranded my TikTok to the Paranormal Prism, but you can find me under the I think it's the Paranormal Investigator or something like that. Let me just quickly check. that dada The powers of technology.
01:00:59
Lee
it is. Yeah, the Paranormal Podcast host on TikTok.
01:01:04
Jo
Nice.
01:01:06
Lee
The Paranormal Prism has a YouTube page.
01:01:10
Jo
Wow.
01:01:11
Lee
And we also have the Paranormal Prism Facebook page. And that's it because I only love relaunched it or rebranded last weekend.
01:01:17
Jo
That's amazing.
01:01:22
Lee
They're the only three that I've got up and running right now because, i'm again, I want to learn to before I can walk with the rebrand.
01:01:29
Jo
Right.
01:01:30
Lee
I don't want to throw everything in and make it too busy for me.
01:01:33
Jo
Yeah.
01:01:33
Lee
I'm exactly get overwhelmed. So I'm just doing things bit by a bit.
01:01:38
Jo
That sounds amazing. if we We're going to reach out. We're going to And you and i we are going to do a show, maybe live, maybe taped, but it's going to be out in the field. And then one of us will come back. And then the other one will come back because we'll both come back.
01:01:51
Jo
People are like, oh my God, when one of us comes back, it'd be weird.
01:01:53
Lee
Now, when we'll be back in the same time zone there?
01:01:58
Jo
Maybe. Maybe. Depends.
01:02:01
Lee
Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.
01:02:03
Jo
I never know. I'm always one hour ahead or one hour behind. Who knows? But next time, we're going to talk even more. I want the spookiest, scariest things. And I know you' have another project. I won't mention the project here yet, but I know you have one burning in the background that we'll talk about next time.
01:02:22
Lee
Okie dokie. Sounds like a plan.
01:02:23
Jo
All right. On behalf of myself and Lee, we bid you good day. Bye, everyone.
01:02:29
Lee
Bye-bye now.