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M.K. McDaniel — 18 Days in a Coma and a Christmas Carol in Hell
2 Plays3 seconds ago
M.K. McDaniel went into a drug-induced coma in 1999 with a 38% chance of coming out of it. She woke up 18 days later remembering every single minute of a place she is fairly certain was hell — bombed-out cities, demons, and a shack full of women waiting on customers. Jo, who had his own near-death experience at eight years old, gets her to walk through all of it: the black void, the Christmas carol she sang out of pure spite, the dead fiance who told her she had too much left to do, and the roughly 20% of near-death experiences that nobody in the room wants to talk about.
THE TAKEAWAY: "Skip the trip. You don't need to go there. It's an option — don't take that ride."
Content note: this episode discusses medical trauma, sexual assault, and death.
KEY MOMENTS
• 01:04 — The title, explained. Why "misfit," and why "expat."
• 02:29 — Two NDEs compared. Jo's was a white void and a fight for his sanity. Hers was black and silent.
• 03:28 — "We're taking your brain offline and you won't remember a thing." She remembered everything.
• 04:08 — ARDS, lung failure, a 38% survival estimate, and an 18-day induced coma at 52 years old.
• 07:35 — The bombed-out city, the swirling fog, and the voice that asked if she knew where she was.
• 09:19 — "It's Christmas on earth. That's always the worst day in hell."
• 09:42 — She sings "Away in a Manger" to spite a demon. It works better than expected.
• 10:40 — Her fiance, dead a month, looking 35 again: "Now Mary Kay, you've got too much left to do."
• 13:31 — Nobody believed her. It took ten years to find IANDS in Seattle and people who did.
• 14:41 — About 20% of NDEs are distressing. Almost nobody talks about them.
• 17:04 — Her theory: distressing NDEs are religiously induced, and most people she meets were raised Catholic.
• 18:16 — Every "segment" of her hell traces back to real trauma in her actual life.
• 19:53 — The life review: you watch the movie, then you feel it from everyone else's side.
• 30:37 — What's next — ICU delirium, awake-and-walking ICU protocols, and getting people off induced comas.
• 34:12 — The instruction she came back with: loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, nonjudgmental, useful.
FIND M.K. McDANIEL
• Book — Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat:
• Website — https://misfitinhelltoheavenexpat.com
As an Amazon Associate, Empty Hell earns from qualifying purchases.
Everything Empty Hell: https://linktr.ee/Emptyhell
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
00:00:08
Jo
Hey everyone, Joe here for another What's Cracking. Today's special guest, honestly, I reached out to them and I i was amazed that they said yes. And I'm so delighted to have Kathy here, at Kathy McDaniel. How are you?
00:00:22
Kathy McDaniel
I'm doing great. Yay.
00:00:25
Jo
Well, the Muppets show, yeah, I know. I love the Muppets. We're talking before recording about the Muppets. And this is the, I like to speak of my show as the Muppet show with Les Green.
00:00:36
Jo
but that That's basically me.
00:00:38
Kathy McDaniel
All right.
00:00:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:00:39
Kathy McDaniel
i I didn't wear green. and That's all right. Mm-hmm.
00:00:42
Jo
Today we will. Now, I kind mean honestly, usually the guests will contact me or the PR team contacts me. I looked at your page and I saw the spirituality of it. I saw the concepts of it and I saw the memoir, correct?
00:01:02
Kathy McDaniel
Yes.
00:01:02
Jo
The memoir. And I'll get the name right this time. I'm reading a straight from the screen. For those who don't know, I kind of like inverted it. It made it a little bit more weird.
00:01:09
Kathy McDaniel
and
00:01:11
Jo
Misfit in hell to have an expat. Yes.
00:01:14
Kathy McDaniel
Yes.
00:01:15
Jo
Okay, great. Now that title itself, I need to know more. I need to know more. What's why the misfit in hell was to have expat. Just bring it in.
00:01:29
Kathy McDaniel
All right, I had a distressing near death experience and um I went to what I thought was hell and um I didn't fit in because they kept giving me these terrible jobs to do that were icky and not not not moral not good and I kept saying no and they'd say well dude it's only going to get worse.
00:01:51
Jo
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:56
Kathy McDaniel
So they would just shift me to a new place and the same thing would happen. So I i was definitely a misfit there. And as far as heaven expats, I believe now that we all start off in heaven, we decide to come down here for God knows what reasons.
00:02:06
Jo
yeah
00:02:14
Kathy McDaniel
And then we do our our work here and then we go home. So i'm an expat, somebody that you know lives in America and they go to China to do their work and while they're there they're expats they they have little clubs and get together in the bars and stuff so that's kind of the basics there.
00:02:31
Jo
Right.
00:02:34
Jo
I get that.
00:02:35
Kathy McDaniel
and
00:02:35
Jo
and And it does fit a lot. You've had a near-death experience. I didn't tell you this, but I have one too.
00:02:42
Kathy McDaniel
Cool.
00:02:42
Jo
I mean, that that was kind of like the the clicking. I'm like, okay.
00:02:45
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:46
Jo
Most people say, like well, there is a soft white light and it was nice. And your experience kind of mimics like mine where was like, no, it was not nice.
00:02:57
Kathy McDaniel
and Nice for you, but so what was yours like?
00:02:59
Jo
Yeah.
00:03:03
Jo
It was an ever-consuming white light and a fight for my sanity.
00:03:11
Kathy McDaniel
Oh, kind of like the void. Were you in like the void?
00:03:15
Jo
Yeah. Yeah, I think that would be apropos to say.
00:03:16
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:18
Jo
And so you went through...
00:03:18
Kathy McDaniel
A lot of people go there first. Yeah.
00:03:21
Jo
Okay, so you went through that into the actual hell.
00:03:24
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah, I was in the boat. It was black for me. No sound.
00:03:27
Jo
Black for you, okay.
00:03:28
Kathy McDaniel
I had no idea where I was. i was afraid to move. I didn't know if i was standing or sitting. And I just thought, wait a minute.
00:03:33
Jo
Right.
00:03:35
Kathy McDaniel
The last thing that doctor said to me before putting me into the coma was we're taking your brain offline and you won't remember a thing. And I thought I'm awake.
00:03:46
Jo
Oh.
00:03:49
Kathy McDaniel
What's wrong with this picture?
00:03:51
Jo
Right. Famous last words you won't remember.
00:03:53
Kathy McDaniel
And where am I?
00:03:55
Jo
So you you you were being induced. And so you're cognizant before going in.
00:03:59
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:04:02
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. I had ARDS, um, acute respiratory distress syndrome, lung failure, and, uh, there, it didn't react to antibiotics because it was a syndrome.
00:04:02
Jo
And that's the last thing you hear.
00:04:15
Kathy McDaniel
So they had, they had to throw me in this coma and then they were going to just throw the book at me is what they told me.
00:04:15
Jo
Right.
00:04:21
Kathy McDaniel
And I had a, i like 38% chance of living. But my family said, we got to take it, you know, because you're only 52 years old and you've got a life to live.
00:04:26
Jo
Wow.
00:04:28
Jo
Yeah.
00:04:32
Jo
Absolutely.
00:04:32
Kathy McDaniel
So I went with it.
00:04:34
Jo
Absolutely. And then when you're going through this, what was your mind state? And if there's any question I ask, you just want to note out of this, always feel free. What was your mind state going into this coma? Because I know you're cognizant. I know you're taking the chance.
00:04:51
Jo
Was it a positive, like going to beat the odds or was it spiritual or what was the mind state?
00:04:57
Kathy McDaniel
I've been taking care of my best friend, former fiance for nine months as he died of leukemia and he had only died a month before. So I was already depressed and um needing to get back to my life.
00:05:10
Jo
Yeah. Ooh.
00:05:14
Kathy McDaniel
um I was sick as a dog, you know, things were not going well. I had met a nice, man. And, and I called him in the middle of the night. He was working like an hour away. And I said, look, I'm in serious trouble here. This flu or whatever it is, has gotten so bad. I'm coughing up blood here. I'm on the third floor, no elevator. I can't get to my car.
00:05:40
Kathy McDaniel
He's okay. So he took an hour to come get me. And then by the time we got to this urgent care that was open all night long. i got out of the car because i I could feel my life force just like dripping, ah going away.
00:05:54
Jo
Right. Right. Yeah.
00:05:56
Kathy McDaniel
And i and um i was panicking.
00:05:56
Jo
right
00:05:58
Kathy McDaniel
So I opened the door and fell out. And that's all I remembered till I woke up in the hospital a couple days later. He got me in there in time. They got an ambulance. Otherwise I'd have died if he if he hadn't come to get me.
00:06:15
Kathy McDaniel
So it was a very traumatic time. There was a lot going on. And then when I woke up and my whole family's there, you know, the ah rah-rah team and, you know we can't lose you and and hang in there.
00:06:28
Kathy McDaniel
We're all praying and you had to do your thing.
00:06:29
Jo
Right.
00:06:32
Kathy McDaniel
So I thought, whatever, whatever, whatever's supposed to happen.
00:06:36
Jo
Whatever happens, happens.
00:06:37
Kathy McDaniel
I'm tired. It just, I'm just really tired. Yeah.
00:06:40
Jo
Yeah, that sounds about correct. The hardness of it all, like the exhaustion okay, this is what is.
00:06:46
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:06:49
Kathy McDaniel
Whatever.
00:06:49
Jo
This is what it is.
00:06:50
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. What happened to you? did we do you on an accident or something?
00:06:55
Jo
High fever. Like extremely high fever, windbreak.
00:06:57
Kathy McDaniel
Ah.
00:06:59
Jo
Like the fever was like, cells were bursting on the molecular. I was being boiled up from the inside, basically.
00:07:04
Kathy McDaniel
Wow. Golly.
00:07:07
Jo
Yeah, it was not a fun time, but it was one of those things you keep fighting, you keep fighting, you fighting.
00:07:09
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:07:13
Kathy McDaniel
Mm hmm.
00:07:14
Jo
So when you experience this, when you're going into hell, what was your first thought?
00:07:24
Jo
Like, oh no, I messed up my life. Like, what did I do wrong? Like with introspection, like how did I end up here? Right.
00:07:30
Kathy McDaniel
You know, i I just didn't know where the hell I was. I mean, I i mean, the, that like the, the first scene was this bombed out city.
00:07:35
Jo
Right.
00:07:41
Kathy McDaniel
you know, the lights got really bright for me because I was in this dark void thing, just hanging out. And I thought, this is ridiculous. Somebody put me in a closet and I I'm waiting for the joke.
00:07:53
Kathy McDaniel
Right. And, and, uh, then I saw this like swirling fog and it was getting lighter and, and then,
00:07:54
Jo
Okay.
00:08:00
Kathy McDaniel
i I started hearing people screaming and moaning and I thought, oh, this can't be good. I'm trying to peer through this fog and this voice came out and says, do you know where you are?
00:08:13
Kathy McDaniel
Being a good Catholic girl, I thought, hell, you know, tell me I'm wrong, somebody. And it it just had this maniacal laugh. And that's when I took off and I thought I was running for my life is what it felt like.
00:08:28
Kathy McDaniel
I was
00:08:28
Jo
Right.
00:08:29
Kathy McDaniel
dodging all these for want a better word demons and and and segments i had all these segments the lights would go out and i'd stop because i didn't want to fall and then the lights would come up and it'd be in a totally different place and and uh this went on and on and on until um you know the last one which was the worst and i thought well i'll i just I was going to bug this demon lady and I sang a Christmas carol, you know, because she, she told me I was, I went through all these horrible things and now I'm in this shack with these other ladies that have been gang raped by zombies.
00:09:06
Kathy McDaniel
And now we're going to be, we're waiting for customers, you know, and, and I thought expletive man, how does this this get any worse?
00:09:07
Jo
Right.
00:09:15
Kathy McDaniel
You know?
00:09:15
Jo
Why are we
00:09:16
Kathy McDaniel
And I just said to this demon lady, I said, you know, I've been here a while and um this seems like a particularly nasty environment, is there any reason?
00:09:26
Kathy McDaniel
And she just looked at me and said, well, it's Christmas on earth. That's always the worst day in hell. I thought, huh?
00:09:33
Jo
Oh.
00:09:36
Jo
Right.
00:09:37
Kathy McDaniel
What? Wait a minute. You know, this can't be, what's wrong with this picture? And I said, hell, right? Okay. and And so being a fighter and a brat, I just thought, well, I'll sing a Christmas carol.
00:09:49
Kathy McDaniel
That'll, that'll tweak her panties. And And so I started singing a away in a manger and she turned around says, oh, shut up. And so the other ladies thought, aha, let's do this.
00:10:00
Kathy McDaniel
So we're singing away in a manger, no crib for his bed. The little Lord and I got Lord out and she shrieked and jumped at me. And I thought, good, the lights are going to go out and I'll find myself someplace else.
00:10:10
Jo
Really? Right. Right.
00:10:14
Kathy McDaniel
But boom, that's when the heaven thing happened. I mean, I totally didn't expect this this this joy and bliss and just rolling around in this love and everything else disappeared.
00:10:28
Kathy McDaniel
I could think of nothing else except enjoying this feeling. You can't even explain it. It was so wonderful. and And then to all of a sudden have everything kind of coalesce a little bit and look over and there's my, you know, my best friend that just died a month ago.
00:10:47
Kathy McDaniel
And he, he looked great.
00:10:47
Jo
Really?
00:10:49
Kathy McDaniel
And I thought, huh, I'm getting suspicious. He was 53 and I'd seen him, he all his hair had fallen out with a leukemia and he looked horrible. Now he looked about 35.
00:11:02
Kathy McDaniel
He had his hair back and it was, it was brown instead of gray. And, and he was happy and he was wearing a sweater I gave him. I was him. and And I thought, oh, shoot, he doesn't know he's dead.
00:11:16
Kathy McDaniel
You know, I don't want to be the one to tell him, and you know, because and now he starts belly laughing, you know, and I thought, wait a minute. And he's kind of like, you're getting the message. And I says, I'm dead. I said, we're in heaven. This is great. Why are we standing here, man? Show me around.
00:11:33
Kathy McDaniel
And he just shook his head and said, now Mary Kay, which he called me, you've got too much left to do.
00:11:42
Kathy McDaniel
Huh? I thought that sounds like the bums rush to me, man.
00:11:43
Jo
I don't
00:11:45
Kathy McDaniel
I thought, uh-uh, are you kidding? you have any idea? No, I'm not going. No. And I just crossed my arms and and the lights went out. and The lights came back up. I had a little so little time in there where I was walking along the stream and water and ran into some little old ladies that gave me messages. I think that was a timeout because I was really pissed. And so then the lights come up.
00:12:11
Kathy McDaniel
It's too bright. i can't move. There's people milling around. I'm sure I'm back in hell. And I just, I'm just so exasperated and I can't talk for some reason. And then one of these people turns around and says, whoa, mom's back.
00:12:26
Kathy McDaniel
And I thought, huh?
00:12:27
Jo
Yeah.
00:12:29
Kathy McDaniel
And then there's my mom and my dad and and my daughter and my son-in-law and they're all jumping up and down and screaming and stuff. Little overwhelmed. I just been someplace kind of bad here and I'm trying to acclimate. So my daughter comes over and and and I'm just looking at her because I've got the trach.
00:12:51
Kathy McDaniel
I'm 86 pounds. I can't move. No muscle mass. I'm hot. ah And and um my eyes are going crazy because that's the only thing that works. And she says, no, mom, you know, you've been in a coma now for 18 days.
00:13:04
Kathy McDaniel
We didn't think you were going to make it. and you're gonna be fine and I thought this doesn't feel fine somehow to me and uh so we kind of went from there
00:13:11
Jo
Right.
00:13:17
Jo
And then when you come back from a coma, do people tell you that you're a different person than from before?
00:13:26
Kathy McDaniel
I don't know if it was the the coma or the experience in the coma uh but yeah after that you can't how can you be the same person Um, everything changed.
00:13:29
Jo
Experience. Okay.
00:13:38
Kathy McDaniel
And, uh, I think the the worst part was nobody would listen to my story. They didn't want to hear about it.
00:13:43
Jo
Really? Right.
00:13:44
Kathy McDaniel
They said it was the drugs. They said it was all these others. I says, wait a minute. That doctor told me I couldn't remember anything. And it's here. Well, here it is. 26 years later.
00:13:55
Kathy McDaniel
I remember every minute of it. So, um, it was 10 years, Joe, before I, I found this group called IONS. in Seattle, the International Association for Near Death Studies, and went to one of these meetings and here's all these formerly dead people wandering around all yippy skippy.
00:14:15
Kathy McDaniel
And I'm thinking, hmm, this is interesting. So I went to a couple of meetings and they, you know, they got the telling their story and they got the puppies and the rainbows and stuff and I'm shaking my head.
00:14:21
Jo
Right.
00:14:24
Kathy McDaniel
So I'm sneaking out of one of these meetings and a guy come over, he's one of the people that ran it. And he says, you how come you're always so grumpy man? And and where are you going?
00:14:34
Kathy McDaniel
I says, well, I didn't have an experience like that. And he says, no kidding. What happened? I says, I don't like to talk about it. And he says, bad? I says, oh, yeah, bad, hell, demons, all that shit. and he says, great.
00:14:48
Kathy McDaniel
And I said, what? And he says, we never, nobody ever talks about that. He says, 20% of the people with NDEs have a hellish experience. And I said, there's a reason we don't like to talk about it.
00:14:58
Jo
Yeah.
00:15:01
Kathy McDaniel
it's shaming, you know, it's, it's, you don't want to think about it. He says, good. You're going to tell your story. So they strong arm me into that. And then, um, Then people started coming out of the woodwork.
00:15:14
Kathy McDaniel
They felt safe because I had experienced it and had the guts to talk about it. So I became the hell girl. Anytime anybody came in that looked a little, you know, disheveled, they, they sent them over to me.
00:15:25
Kathy McDaniel
And now, you know, 15 years, 16 years, almost with IONS, I started ah ah a sharing group once a month for the, the DNDE people.
00:15:32
Jo
Right. Yeah. Hmm.
00:15:35
Kathy McDaniel
And I get a lot of people in there, you a lot of them telling their stories for the first time because they finally feel safe. and And a lot of explaining, it's a very lighthearted group. The other thing, Joe, I've been doing a lot of studying on and with the help of people like Alan and Beverly Pierce, they wrote a book, Coma and Near-Death Experience.
00:15:59
Kathy McDaniel
And how how many of those have distressing ones? And it's, it's linked to the, well, how do I put it?
00:16:10
Kathy McDaniel
It's linked. There's another lady called Callie Dayton, who is a nurse and she's been ah studying how people in, in these induced comas where they put you out for a length of time, how many of them have what she calls ICU delirium.
00:16:11
Jo
Right.
00:16:29
Kathy McDaniel
They come back. you know, frantic and with these terrible stories and they they can't get over it. And so she she's linked the two things together. So the three of us and Ions are starting to kind of dig a little deeper into that and and see what those connections are because consciousness,
00:16:49
Kathy McDaniel
um that's who we are on the other side and that's who we really are, ah is not affected by drugs. So we're trying to You know, how much of this is is the, but it it's just interesting to finally name it, to um address it.
00:17:05
Jo
Right.
00:17:11
Kathy McDaniel
My own theory is, and in talking to many, many, many people that have had these, is that my experience was religiously induced.
00:17:23
Kathy McDaniel
I'm a Catholic, was a Catholic. And 85% or more of the people that I talk to are Catholics. that have these dnds would you happen to be catholic 86
00:17:33
Jo
I'll say, yes, I was. Sam, like, yeah, that makes, I was like, there you go.
00:17:38
Kathy McDaniel
i but it you know it's it's i think i i put it back into from the time i was you know what five six um and the nuns told us if you did this you're going to hell the priest said if you do this you're going to hell And if you don't, you go to purgatory.
00:17:40
Jo
more percentage.
00:17:53
Jo
Right.
00:17:55
Kathy McDaniel
ah Everybody goes to purgatory because even if Jesus died for your sins, you still will have stain on them. You go to purgatory, you get your sins burned off. Let's all pray for the poor souls in purgatory.
00:18:08
Kathy McDaniel
um You know, that's what it was real.
00:18:09
Jo
Yeah.
00:18:12
Kathy McDaniel
You know, that's what we expect. And so um when I died, I expected to go to purgatory or or hell and there wasn't one. So I made it.
00:18:23
Kathy McDaniel
And all those segments, and most of the people I talk to have segments, I can trace back to actual bad things that happened in my life. And so I just took the earthquake in Santa Cruz that I was in where the buildings fell down and there was people screaming and running and fires.
00:18:39
Kathy McDaniel
And I thought, wow, that'd be great. So that was my first scene in hell, was being in that bombed out city with all the chaos.
00:18:44
Jo
Right.
00:18:47
Kathy McDaniel
I was raped, so there was a gang rape thing that that that wasn't a gang rape, but ebony that that was there. So it gave me some power to think, okay, I caused that.
00:19:01
Kathy McDaniel
And it's not my fault. ah That's what I was taught. But I don't believe that crap anymore. And i hi I caution people, if you're in some sort of religious environment, that tells you you can go to hell for anything they say is wrong, run like a bunny rabbit because a it's not true and it's going to screw you up.
00:19:21
Jo
Yeah.
00:19:24
Kathy McDaniel
And yeah, so I believe that when people die and stay dead, they don't do hell or purgatory.
00:19:25
Jo
And it changes every year.
00:19:35
Kathy McDaniel
I think that there's free will. So if you want to go to to hell, you are perfectly willing, able and welcome to make your own.
00:19:47
Kathy McDaniel
So I, ah so many people that come, come back, talk about the life review, which fascinates me. And I didn't get to get one. I wasn't there long enough, but their interpretation is that you get to see like a movie of your whole life.
00:20:00
Jo
Right. I've heard that.
00:20:01
Kathy McDaniel
You know, did you get one?
00:20:03
Kathy McDaniel
The life review?
00:20:03
Jo
I was only eight.
00:20:04
Jo
So my movie is basically a tricycle and some dreams ice cream.
00:20:05
Kathy McDaniel
Oh,
00:20:09
Kathy McDaniel
and and you kicked a puppy once.
00:20:09
Jo
That was it.
00:20:09
Jo
does it Yeah.
00:20:11
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:20:11
Jo
Yeah. Like once.
00:20:11
Kathy McDaniel
so Pulled your sister's hair.
00:20:13
Jo
Second to sleep. Yeah.
00:20:15
Kathy McDaniel
Um, so you get to see the whole thing and it's, it's not a condemnation. It's just a a review. It's, it's like you sit there and, you I don't know if there's popcorn, but you, you know, you get to see the whole movie of your life and then they flip it around and then you get to experience that as if you were the people you were interacting with.
00:20:36
Kathy McDaniel
So, so there you are and and you're in traffic and, and, and you just lay on the horn and some guy in front you has a heart attack.
00:20:36
Jo
Oh, Right.
00:20:45
Kathy McDaniel
You get to feel that guy's heart attack, you know, or you help an old lady across the street. She's so grateful. Oh, wow. Got a good feeling out of that one. So it's just, just to let you know how, how it went, you know, how the, the karma, what you put out came back and it's not a judgment.
00:21:04
Kathy McDaniel
It's just an understanding. Um, yeah.
00:21:06
Jo
And understanding, I think that's the best word for it. Because judgment is goes back to religious atonement.
00:21:11
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:21:11
Jo
Yeah.
00:21:12
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. So I don't, you know, I just don't believe in hell and my purpose in coming back when he said I had too much left to do. That was 26 years ago. I've been on 200 podcasts with over 2 million views. I wondered how I i was going to make a difference, but just to tell people, skip the trip.
00:21:32
Kathy McDaniel
You don't need to go there. It's an option. Don't take that ride. um God is loving and forgiving and we're all here just to do the best we can We choose our lives. We choose our soulmates.
00:21:45
Kathy McDaniel
When it's over, we'll go back and have a good laugh. All my soulmates are meeting in the bar. Free hors d'oeuvres. I'm buying.
00:21:51
Jo
but There you go. i I like that idea. And that goes back to the, you know, you start off the misfit in heaven part. I mean, see, I just did it again.
00:21:57
Kathy McDaniel
Miss business. Yeah.
00:21:58
Jo
I did it again.
00:21:58
Kathy McDaniel
up
00:21:59
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. that
00:21:59
Jo
Maybe that's that's my book, Misfit in Heaven.
00:22:03
Jo
but just didn't fit in. No, Misfit in Hell, we start out with that.
00:22:04
Kathy McDaniel
ah
00:22:06
Jo
And then you're going back to the heaven expat where you come back to earth, right?
00:22:06
Kathy McDaniel
yeah
00:22:12
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:22:12
Jo
Because you have more things to do.
00:22:15
Jo
And that more thing to do is to be the messenger of.
00:22:15
Kathy McDaniel
More work.
00:22:19
Jo
And measure of light and love.
00:22:19
Kathy McDaniel
Right. It gives you a purpose.
00:22:21
Jo
Right. Right.
00:22:22
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. it's It's a purpose is to help people get over that. Don't be afraid to die. I mean, my mom's 99 now. Perfect little Catholic lady. And she's concerned she might go to hell.
00:22:32
Kathy McDaniel
It's like, mother, you are the soul of generosity and kindness.
00:22:36
Jo
Right.
00:22:37
Kathy McDaniel
and And no, dad's already there. He's saving your place. And it's a quick trip. And you will not believe it's a party, mom. All your friends, they're all there. Everybody looks 35. You're going to love it
00:22:50
Jo
I think those that's that's one of the things that maybe we're talking, I mean, if we were both Catholic, we might be able to understand and where it came from, but isn't it like the glorified body? Is that where it comes from?
00:23:04
Jo
the The body, this when you're dying or when you're dead, heaven is your glorified body. So if you're missing a finger, it comes back. If you're, it kind of rolls back the age type thing. Is that correct?
00:23:15
Jo
is that correct?
00:23:16
Kathy McDaniel
i i i like to say spoiler alert there are no bodies in heaven you leave them on earth and they turn to dust but what is you and and is you and and it it looks like you i i don't know and if you i see if if i have a a little trouble with the reincarnation thing if If you reincarnate a thousand times and you look like Cleopatra, when you come back one time, another time you look like a garbage collector.
00:23:22
Jo
Right. Right.
00:23:38
Jo
right
00:23:45
Kathy McDaniel
I mean, I don't, I don't got, I don't have the specifics, but I just know the soul is you and you, I think you can look pretty much any way you want.
00:23:48
Jo
right
00:23:55
Kathy McDaniel
Just so that people recognize you.
00:23:57
Jo
Interesting.
00:23:57
Kathy McDaniel
I don't know. i didn't stay long enough.
00:23:59
Jo
Or you recognize the aspect of the soul and that's what the projection is.
00:24:00
Kathy McDaniel
but
00:24:03
Kathy McDaniel
Right.
00:24:05
Jo
Yeah, okay.
00:24:05
Kathy McDaniel
I guess so. It's that personality.
00:24:06
Jo
Okay. Right.
00:24:08
Kathy McDaniel
There's your personality and people recognize you because they see you with, not see you, but they experience you with a different dimension.
00:24:10
Jo
The consciousness of.
00:24:17
Kathy McDaniel
So everybody knows everybody.
00:24:20
Jo
Very cool.
00:24:20
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:24:20
Jo
Now, with all that said, and we talked touched a little bit about reincarnation, but you started out with saying you you believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, you believe that we were in heaven and we wanted to go, it was a choice to come here.
00:24:35
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:36
Jo
And so could we also do that again and again? Interesting.
00:24:40
Kathy McDaniel
Oh yeah, and all the other billions of planets and and and universes and all that.
00:24:44
Jo
Interesting.
00:24:45
Kathy McDaniel
This is not the only place. I've been told over and over that this is the toughest gig, Earth. Only the brave souls come here. the The contrast is so extreme that it takes the crazies you know to come and say, I'm doing this.
00:24:59
Jo
Right. Yeah. Right.
00:25:02
Jo
yeah
00:25:03
Kathy McDaniel
This is gonna be like going to the biggest, baddest amusement park, the highest roller coasters, the scariest ah haunted houses. I want to do it all. I'm going big. I'm going down to earth. And I've been told that there is like endless line of people that want to come here. I mean, this is all metaphorically speaking, but they want to come here because it's, it's wild, man. It's just, it's just unlike anything else. So personally, i think I will pick another place and let somebody have my
00:25:37
Kathy McDaniel
spot in line because I think been here done this.
00:25:40
Jo
Right.
00:25:41
Kathy McDaniel
It would be the t-shirt been to earth done that. And then yeah I'm going to go someplace a little calmer, but it's been, a you know, it's been something I've had a hell of a life.
00:25:44
Jo
Done that. Got the wristlet.
00:25:51
Kathy McDaniel
You've probably had a hell of a life. Uh, there's very few people that haven't, uh, they call those the vacation life people, you know, the people next door that got married right out of high school, had three perfect children.
00:26:03
Kathy McDaniel
He retired and you never see him except when they're working in the garden. um vacation life and they earned it but it sounds a little boring to me
00:26:08
Jo
Right.
00:26:12
Jo
Yeah, I like mine. more interesting than that as well. but After your near-death experience, after remembering and after talking to a people, how long did it take you to write the memoir then?
00:26:25
Kathy McDaniel
um I wrote it um six years ago so 20 years um I kept here you hear the voice sometimes when you get back it's like you're your conscience or something telling you nags, you know, nags to, you know, you really, now you really need to put that down and go do something.
00:26:29
Jo
Okay.
00:26:40
Jo
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:43
Kathy McDaniel
All right.
00:26:43
Jo
Yeah.
00:26:43
Jo
Right.
00:26:43
Kathy McDaniel
All right. So that's what got me up to the IONS meetings, a series of synchronicities that were incredible. And then I got to the, I did not want to go to the meeting, did not want to tell my story.
00:26:55
Kathy McDaniel
And then they started in with, you got to write a book. You got to write a book. You got to write, I'm not going to write a book. So I was, let's see. Well, it was, probably seven years ago or six years ago, uh, that I was at an I as conference and this gal had a table every, oh, they're great. There's going to be one in and Seattle this year, which is great because it's only 45 minutes away instead of flying over the East coast. But anyway, she had this little, uh,
00:27:21
Kathy McDaniel
table set up and she said that she was starting her own publishing company and it just said do you need to to write a book on her little you know cardboard thing and I dodged her every time I had to go buy this this thing I kind of put my hand on my face and pick up my pace a little bit and finally it was the last day and everybody's leaving and she was packing up and I saw this lady so I went to make a wide birth around her and she put her books down and came up and stood in front of me and said, they said, you need to write a book.
00:27:30
Jo
Yeah.
00:27:52
Kathy McDaniel
And I said, I'm looking around for her invisible friends, you know, and I said, oh who's they? She said, she says, she said, gave me your card. She says, I'm going to be your publisher.
00:28:04
Kathy McDaniel
I'll be contacting you.
00:28:05
Jo
Wow. Yeah. There
00:28:06
Kathy McDaniel
What's your name? ah She was rather adamant about it. So I just told her my email address and whatever. And she got back to me and then COVID hit. I'm stuck in the house for two years.
00:28:18
Kathy McDaniel
I had nothing to do.
00:28:19
Jo
yeah
00:28:21
Kathy McDaniel
So i wrote the book and she published it and and it it got out there. And then out of the blue, some lady named Kirstie Salisbury from New Zealand to got in touch with me.
00:28:36
Kathy McDaniel
and said she heard about my book and she'd had a near-death experience and she wanted me to be on her podcast, which I had no idea what that was.
00:28:45
Jo
Oh, wow.
00:28:45
Kathy McDaniel
And she explained it and she said she was in New Zealand. I says, I can't afford to fly to New Zealand. She's no, no, no. So but anyway, she was my first and, um, and it just, the word got out.
00:28:58
Kathy McDaniel
And then I got on that podcast.com thing, which, uh, you know, opened the door there. So it's been a whirlwind. And I love it.
00:29:07
Jo
It's also good.
00:29:07
Kathy McDaniel
I love meeting people like you. i I feel like we're soulmates, you know, and one of the hundreds that you bring down with you. And we said, you know, it's going to be busy, but let's get together for an hour.
00:29:19
Kathy McDaniel
Okay, it'll be fun.
00:29:19
Jo
Every once a while, i have some tea.
00:29:21
Kathy McDaniel
And here we are.
00:29:21
Jo
Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:21
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:29:22
Jo
And that's that is refreshing. And I did not know that much about your near-death experience, of course. So to hear what you described as not pleasant at first,
00:29:38
Jo
That made all the difference for me because I've tried to tell people like, oh, I mean, the great thing and and that nice, bright, warm, fuzzy. Like, no, no, no, not like that at all.
00:29:49
Jo
And so it was kind of like alienating. Even when you open up to people about NDEs, right? They hear your experience, just like the people in your group, go, okay, I'm not the only one.
00:30:02
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah, it's huge.
00:30:02
Jo
Good. You know, we can talk. Yeah, it's like the bonding connection.
00:30:04
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:30:06
Jo
And if you want to know more, not you personally, you know more, but if you want to know more, you can get the book Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat. See, I can read today.
00:30:16
Jo
And that's not just for look.
00:30:18
Kathy McDaniel
You're cured.
00:30:19
Jo
Yeah.
00:30:21
Jo
Kathy, we we talked a lot about religion and spirituality and just even took out the religious aspect of it. What's next for you?
00:30:34
Jo
What do you want to do next?
00:30:37
Kathy McDaniel
I kind of let it unfold. You know, it's that, that synchronicity stuff.
00:30:41
Jo
Yeah.
00:30:42
Kathy McDaniel
um I think I have really been funneled to this whole thing with Callie and Alan about,
00:30:54
Kathy McDaniel
helping people that all these people that are in these drug induced comas, A, it's physically ruining. ah i went through that whole bit of trying to learn how to walk and talk.
00:31:03
Jo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:07
Kathy McDaniel
There's all your muscle memories gone. And you're like a baby. You don't know how to go up steps. You don't know to, that took a month. That's humiliating. It's it's awful. So if you can take that aspect out of it with Callie's, idea of keeping you alive, you know, awake and walking around.
00:31:23
Kathy McDaniel
Sure. You got the ventilator, but you know, you're, you're, you're, you're talking to your family, you're exercising. And so when you get out of the hospital, you just go home instead of this depressing recovery area.
00:31:34
Jo
Yeah. Yeah. It is.
00:31:36
Kathy McDaniel
So that's, that's good. And then also so many of those people that have the distressing, uh, NDEs that nobody knows how to fix, you know, my therapist said,
00:31:49
Jo
yeah
00:31:50
Kathy McDaniel
I'll put PTSD on your chart, hon, but I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. So I was, that's helpful for so many people. That's part of it right there.
00:32:02
Kathy McDaniel
So getting rid of the debt drug and produced comas now is my, one of my new ones, but it's also entwined with helping people with the DNDs.
00:32:11
Jo
Right.
00:32:14
Jo
And the rationale behind it is beautiful. And it's everyone, everyone, everyone, if if anyone experienced even a sliver of what you went through, I think the world would be a but better and more kinder and more understanding place.
00:32:29
Jo
You know, I really, I really see that from you.
00:32:30
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:32
Jo
Now, if, if you want, what are your social media contacts? If people want to reach out to you,
00:32:38
Kathy McDaniel
I'm on Facebook. Uh, I've got one for my heaven expat and one just for me, Kathy McDaniel. I'm on LinkedIn. um I've got a website, www.misfitandhelltoheavenexpat.com with all kinds of information there.
00:32:58
Kathy McDaniel
And yeah, if if people contact me, I'll get back to them. Mostly I get people trying to sell me stuff. ah
00:33:07
Jo
Don't we all?
00:33:08
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah, I know.
00:33:08
Jo
Yeah.
00:33:10
Kathy McDaniel
I've got no money left, people. Leave me alone. um
00:33:14
Jo
But spiritual currency, plenty.
00:33:16
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah, I love it. I just love it.
00:33:19
Jo
Yeah.
00:33:19
Kathy McDaniel
And I'm so grateful for you and what you're doing and the other podcasters that that are bringing this to light to to people who are suffering on thinking they're the only ones. And, and yeah.
00:33:34
Kathy McDaniel
And, and for people not to be afraid to die, it's, it's, I, that's one of the things almost everybody does when they come back is work at hospice.
00:33:34
Jo
Well...
00:33:42
Kathy McDaniel
I was so jealous of those people. i would tell them, you know, they're, they're frightened. They're getting ready to die. I'd change places with you in a minute. Heaven is so wonderful. You're all your friends are there.
00:33:53
Kathy McDaniel
Your pets are there.
00:33:54
Jo
Right.
00:33:55
Kathy McDaniel
And, and they just relax and, get this look on their face. This one guy says, I'm getting ready. You know, he was ready to party, man. So there's, yeah, it's a lot of good things that come out of these things.
00:34:04
Jo
That's kindness. Yeah.
00:34:08
Kathy McDaniel
And they told me when I got back, I said, you know, this is thou shalt not didn't do it for me.
00:34:09
Jo
That's that's. fine
00:34:14
Kathy McDaniel
I need something positive to go forward with.
00:34:16
Jo
Yes. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:16
Kathy McDaniel
And, and the voice told me over over a period of weeks, be loving and kind, merciful and forgiving, encouraging, grateful.
00:34:23
Jo
oh
00:34:26
Jo
yeah
00:34:26
Kathy McDaniel
nonjudgmental and useful.
00:34:28
Jo
yeah
00:34:29
Kathy McDaniel
Now, I don't know where I left my keys or what my license plate number is, but that got burned in there, you know, so that's what I, and if you can't remember all that, just be loving and kind.
00:34:40
Kathy McDaniel
It's contagious.
00:34:41
Jo
It really is. And this is at a conversation with a friend. Those are two things i i always think that kindness is a type of love.
00:34:51
Kathy McDaniel
Mm-hmm.
00:34:51
Jo
Kindness comes from love. And kindness and time are the only things I value on this planet.
00:34:53
Kathy McDaniel
Oh, no.
00:34:56
Jo
Like everything everything else just comes and goes.
00:34:57
Kathy McDaniel
Yeah.
00:34:58
Jo
I appreciate both of yours, kindness and time.
00:34:59
Kathy McDaniel
Bye.
00:35:00
Jo
See? Now, for behalf of my son, thanks again for coming for this.
00:35:01
Kathy McDaniel
yeah
00:35:04
Jo
And again, Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat. Check it out. Behalve of myself. and Kathy. I almost called you MK, so wasn't going to call you Mary, but you know, connection to the story.
00:35:14
Kathy McDaniel
ah
00:35:16
Jo
We bid you good day. Goodbye, everyone.