Transcript
Speaker: Hi, and welcome to the Yes Mama podcast.
Speaker: A Yes Mama is one who loves being a mom, who is in it to have the best time with their kids to raise confident and happy and successful and resilient kids.
Speaker: And here at the Yes Mama podcast, we do that through intimate conversations with moms and sometimes dads about the best ways that we've found simple yet effective parenting methods that have helped our kids to really thrive.
Speaker: So even just by being here, you're doing such a great job.
Speaker: By showing up, taking this hour out of your day to be a better parent shows how much you care.
Speaker: So great job.
Speaker: Thanks for being here.
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: Hey moms, one thing I just wanted to jump up and talk to you about before we get into this episode.
Speaker: One, it's a trigger warning.
Speaker: This is an episode about a mom who's a really good friend of mine who had breast cancer and got through it and is on the other side.
Speaker: But we all know and have been touched by someone who may not have had the best outcome.
Speaker: So if your family has been touched by cancer, know that you are loved.
Speaker: I am so sorry.
Speaker: And if you are going through this battle right now, know that you're not alone.
Speaker: And this is one mom's journey of how she got through it.
Speaker: And she is happily safe on the other side and able to enjoy her life and her kids.
Speaker: I want to also share one thing with you.
Speaker: I have a freebie that you can get in my link tree for a guided meditation and happiness workshop that I'm having on Wednesday, May 17th of 2023.
Speaker: It's something, a live workshop that I did this Saturday that went so well and everyone that was there just loved it so much and felt just a sense of peace and relief when they left that I couldn't not do it again.
Speaker: So this time we're doing it over Zoom.
Speaker: No Facebook groups you need to join.
Speaker: It's just literally a free workshop on how to just get yourself just even 1% happier and then how to build a mantra out of that so that you can use it to move forward.
Speaker: So here we go with Sarah's journey.
Speaker: Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker: I hope you enjoy this episode.
Speaker: If you need to talk or have anything you'd like to share about this episode, come find me over on Instagram, yes.mamailana, I-L-A-N-A.
Speaker: Thanks, everybody.
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: Sarah is a 10-year survivor of breast cancer, and we thought it might...
Speaker: Like I always say, if it helps one person, amazing.
Speaker: If it helps 10 or 100 or a million to know just some little tips to get through it, you know, with staying present with being a mom and all of the things that go along with it.
Speaker: So I am so happy.
Speaker: A, that you got through it healthy.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You know, B, that we're here talking about it and hopefully can help some people.
Speaker: So absolutely.
Speaker: So let's just start with the day...
Speaker: The day, right?
Speaker: You go in for a regular mammogram, right?
Speaker: Like it was just one of those, like it was a Tuesday and I, I was my yearly checkup.
Speaker: And so I'm going to let you just to put a little, um, context around it is we were, we lived in the North shore of Chicago.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We moved to North Carolina for a job.
Speaker: We've been there for two years and we were moving back to the North shore.
Speaker: So you had already decided.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was decided.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Our house was sold.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Um, and so I decided I'm like, but we had no house to move into in on the North shore coming back because it was January, no one's selling their house, like slim pickings.
Speaker: And so we're kind of looking for a temporary house.
Speaker: Like we were just kind of like, Oh, what are we going to do?
Speaker: And it was December.
Speaker: And, um, but I thought, Oh,
Speaker: I'll get ahead of this.
Speaker: I'm going to get all my doctor's appointments in here because I have a little bit of time because I'm doing pretty good with packing.
Speaker: The movers are coming.
Speaker: I felt like a good spot.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So I'll go get all these appointments done so I don't have to worry about that.
Speaker: I can just really focus on house hunting and moving.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so I went to my regular OB appointment and she's like, oh, you should probably get a mammogram.
Speaker: And I said, you know, okay, you know, sure.
Speaker: I was 41.
Speaker: I was like, gosh, I probably should have done it last year.
Speaker: And I went in the parking lot and I made an appointment and, um, and like, you know, I get a little woohoo, but it was on the anniversary of my dad's death.
Speaker: And I made that appointment.
Speaker: And went in and happened to get a 3D mammogram.
Speaker: Yes, I've been doing those too.
Speaker: And the technician said at the time, like, but I was so naive.
Speaker: I didn't know.
Speaker: She said, okay, like a doctor may call you later today.
Speaker: And I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker: And I went, proceeded to go to DSW.
Speaker: As you do.
Speaker: Yep, talking to my friend on the phone.
Speaker: And I said, oh, it's so weird.
Speaker: They said they're going to call, like, might call me.
Speaker: And she's like, I don't think that's normal.
Speaker: I was like, what?
Speaker: And went home, phone rings as I come in the door.
Speaker: And they said, we need you to come back.
Speaker: So same day.
Speaker: Same day.
Speaker: And well, I didn't go back in the same day.
Speaker: I think I went the next day.
Speaker: Um, and that friend I was talking to drove back up and to, you know, kind of be with me because we're like, Oh, this doesn't sound good.
Speaker: And of course, like my husband went with me.
Speaker: you know you look back and go like oh this was all so crazy like husband he was at the appointment for a while and my friend came okay and he's like oh I guess I'll go back to work you know and we're like oh okay they're just doing the biopsy whatever and um so my friend and I are in the exam room so how funny is that like your childhood friend you're in this room we're like playing with the equipment of course and that three people came in looking so sad and um we kind of started laughing because they looked so sad because I think we knew what the answer was yeah and I'm like we're pretty sure you have cancer and I was like what
Speaker: you know, I don't, what are you talking about?
Speaker: So you immediately kind of go into like a, uh, emotional emergency, you know, it's just, it's absolute crisis.
Speaker: So, um, but again, we're in North Carolina, we're moving in two weeks or right after Christmas, cause this is all happening.
Speaker: Like the pathology report came back on Christmas Eve.
Speaker: Um, you know, and then we, we were up here by January, um,
Speaker: fifth that's when i went into the surgeon's office here on the north shore so it all happened so fast so quick then within a month i had the surgery i had a double radical double mastectomy um so it was just like this whole world when we went into a rental house because the doctor there said um we're at the duke medical center and she said you know where are you going and we're like chicago she goes oh
Speaker: okay, good job.
Speaker: You're not going somewhere where there's no doctors.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Major city that you can find somebody good.
Speaker: And it's just kind of funny how the universe works.
Speaker: She said, where?
Speaker: And I told her our town and she's like, oh my gosh, are you by this harbor?
Speaker: And I was like, well, yeah.
Speaker: And she's like, my son goes to Northwestern.
Speaker: My other son's at the University of Chicago.
Speaker: So I'm there all the time.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I know where you are.
Speaker: I know where to send you.
Speaker: I know what to do.
Speaker: And we're like, okay, but the problem is we're going to this rental house.
Speaker: And she's like, how long?
Speaker: We're like, a four month rental.
Speaker: And she's like, listen, you're going to go to that.
Speaker: You're going to have the surgery, be in that rental.
Speaker: When you're done with the rental, you're moving out and you're moving on with your.
Speaker: Oh, what a great way of looking at it.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, thank you.
Speaker: You know, we were just talking about how sometimes you just need to tell people what to do.
Speaker: She just kind of told me, I'm like, great plan.
Speaker: Yes, we're doing that.
Speaker: So that's kind of what we did.
Speaker: And the day I went in for surgery, my little best childhood friend called me and she's like, today's cancer-free day.
Speaker: I'm like, what?
Speaker: What are you talking about?
Speaker: And she's like, no, they're cutting out the cancer, right?
Speaker: And I was like, yeah.
Speaker: She goes, well, after today, you won't have cancer.
Speaker: So this is a great day.
Speaker: And again, it was one of those things where I was like,
Speaker: Great perspective.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I'm going with that.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Glass half full.
Speaker: Let's just get this out of the way and keep moving forward.
Speaker: And I do.
Speaker: I feel like because I was 41, I didn't know a lot of people who had had cancer, who currently had cancer.
Speaker: I was really alone in all of this.
Speaker: And so for people to just kind of tell me like,
Speaker: this is okay.
Speaker: This is what you're going to do.
Speaker: And you don't know the outcome.
Speaker: I didn't know what my paramedosis was.
Speaker: No, but a positive mindset is so much and such a great placebo effect of like, no, this is how it's going to go.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I'm a big believer in your brain.
Speaker: I probably spent a month because I heard this little boy talking one time that he loves Star Wars and this little, I don't know what they are, the, you know, the
Speaker: spaceship that shoots.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Sounds good.
Speaker: Millennium Falcon.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And he's like, I just shoot my tumor, shoot my tumor.
Speaker: And, um, and that's all I kept thinking.
Speaker: I just kept shooting my tumor and I just kept saying, cancer, you're not spreading, you're not spreading, you're not spreading.
Speaker: And lo and behold, it hadn't spread and they removed it and, um, you know, kind of moved on from there, but it was, you know, it was definitely a journey and a process.
Speaker: And again, not knowing it was really,
Speaker: you're kind of overwhelmed.
Speaker: You're in this space that you don't know what's going on.
Speaker: You don't know what to expect.
Speaker: You don't know how you're supposed to act.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: People don't know how to, everybody looked at me like I was going to die.
Speaker: You know, that was really hard to watch other people's faces.
Speaker: All those like, Oh, how are you?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or like, are you okay?
Speaker: Or like, you know, like, Oh, how did you tell your kids what was going on?
Speaker: So, um, it's so funny.
Speaker: So my son's 23 now and I was actually telling him about this and I'm like,
Speaker: what do you like?
Speaker: What do you remember?
Speaker: And he goes, you know, I like, after you told us, I thought, um, like, were you, were you not telling us things or you, why did you take a while to tell us?
Speaker: I'm like, Oh my God, it was like a three week span.
Speaker: We're moving.
Speaker: We moved in the middle of that.
Speaker: Like there was a lot going on.
Speaker: And I think we were just waiting to get all the information.
Speaker: So I will say I, I, there was one person who kept trying to push me to tell the kids and, um,
Speaker: You know, I told like the whole gut connection, like this doesn't feel right.
Speaker: This doesn't feel right.
Speaker: I just needed to like grapple with it myself and figure out how I was going to tell them.
Speaker: and what I was going to tell them.
Speaker: And I waited until I talked to one of the doctors and they just said, you know, just tell them on their level.
Speaker: And you kind of know this from teaching too, right?
Speaker: Of course.
Speaker: Talk to them at their level, give them the information that they need to know, that they can understand and digest.
Speaker: You don't need to, I didn't need to go into surgery details.
Speaker: I didn't need to go into like not knowing what the prognosis was.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Worst case scenario, they do not need to know.
Speaker: But you need to tell them enough to where they feel satisfied because what they make up to fill in the
Speaker: blanks is often much worse than what is actually happening.
Speaker: And so we did.
Speaker: And so I remember calling them in and we kind of sat them down and, you know, you're kind of acting somber.
Speaker: And my son at the time was like 12, 13, seventh grade.
Speaker: And my daughter was fourth grade, like nine, 10.
Speaker: And, um, you know, my daughter was kind of like, Oh,
Speaker: Sounds good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Sounds good.
Speaker: And then my son, who happened to be reading a book about, like, two friends.
Speaker: One of them had cancer, and they were on a motorcycle trip across the country.
Speaker: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker: So he's a little bit more in two with what's going on.
Speaker: So my little boy, when I say little boy, like, you know, gawky, like, preteen.
Speaker: He climbed up on my lap and snuggled me on my lap.
Speaker: And I just like hugged him and rocked him and, you know, told him it would be okay.
Speaker: And you don't know if it is or if it isn't, but it was like, it's gotta be okay.
Speaker: It's gotta be okay.
Speaker: Cause when I, I remember when I found out when we were in North Carolina,
Speaker: I went into my closet and I was just crying, crying, crying.
Speaker: Cause you need to, why me?
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: So many things.
Speaker: What's going to happen?
Speaker: Like the, just the not knowing how, how did this happen?
Speaker: How did this happen?
Speaker: Like all of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And in my bargaining phase, you know, I promised God, the universe, whoever that, um, it was just funny of all promises that I would go to all my kids school conferences and,
Speaker: Like, I can't miss a conference.
Speaker: Like, cause I thought like, you know, as a teacher too, like parents who don't show up, like God love you out there.
Speaker: Parents who don't show up, but like show up, come to the conference.
Speaker: There's really important things that teachers have really thought about.
Speaker: We see your kids probably more time than you do.
Speaker: We want to share those kids with you with someone else who knows those kids.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But I was like, I'll go to the conference.
Speaker: I'll go to the conference.
Speaker: And then it was funny when my son was a senior in high school, it's a really big school.
Speaker: And by senior year, like the kids are in college.
Speaker: A lot of parents bail on those senior spring conferences.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But there I am up and down the hall.
Speaker: I mean, I went to the gym one.
Speaker: I mean, I went to all of them.
Speaker: Look at you.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm going to all of them.
Speaker: Cause I was like, I promised.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm going to all the conferences.
Speaker: I've gone to every mom's weekend, you know, like everything.
Speaker: It just made me realize, like, be there.
Speaker: Yeah, show up.
Speaker: Yeah, because when that is threatened and you feel like that's going to be taken away from you, you want to go.
Speaker: You want to go.
Speaker: I don't ever want to be in a position where I can't go.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I'm not going to show up for them.
Speaker: Because I think that was the most terrifying part.
Speaker: They were still so young.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I just thought, like, oh, I have so much work to do.
Speaker: There's so much to be done.
Speaker: I don't want to miss it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't want to miss it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But let's talk about that moment that your little guy just came.
Speaker: And again, 13-year-olds don't hug like that anymore.
Speaker: I mean, if you get a hug, you're lucky.
Speaker: I just want to just honor all of the time that you spent being vulnerable and loving him forever.
Speaker: up until that moment that he felt that he could come up and do that.
Speaker: I think it's, there's so much of that, like all of the conversations that you had when he was having a bad day, all the conversations that you had had over whatever that you had shown up for him so well, that then he knew that was a safe thing that he could come and cuddle.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like there's so many, like he didn't even fit on my lap, you know, like his big gangly legs and those arms and,
Speaker: He just held me and I just rocked and rocked and rocked.
Speaker: It just shows to your closeness.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was, it was, it was such a special moment.
Speaker: I mean, I was give my daughter some peep, you know, some credit too.
Speaker: She would flip the pages after my surgery, the magazines for me and go through them and try to read me the magazines.
Speaker: No, it's, it's, it's different.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I wasn't, what
Speaker: No, no, no, no.
Speaker: No, absolutely.
Speaker: And she listens to this.
Speaker: I just know.
Speaker: No, it's it's age appropriate to be like, cool.
Speaker: You know, and a lot of them, whatever you say to them, however you present it, no matter what the good or bad news is, they are reading your facial.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Expressions.
Speaker: They can feel the energy you're admitting of being hopeful or being scared or whatever.
Speaker: And so you really do have to set the tone of what you're trying to say before you walk in the room.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Especially for something that's that big news.
Speaker: If you were, I mean, you are scared at that point.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Terrified.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You had no idea what was going to happen.
Speaker: Your husband was probably terrified of, you know, that he'd be a single dad or whatever, but you do have to like,
Speaker: okay, I'm going to, we're going to have this talk.
Speaker: I'm going to present what they need to know, present it, hopefully in like a, let's get through this together.
Speaker: And it, did it create some closeness in your family that you guys had all gone through that together?
Speaker: I think for us, like my son last night, when I was asking about, I asked him a couple of things and he was like, oh, it seemed like a you thing.
Speaker: Like it was
Speaker: So I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker: That's good, actually.
Speaker: But I do think I was just very aware to try, you know, because I think they've been gone for two years.
Speaker: So they came back in the community, even though they knew it, a lot of change.
Speaker: Fifth grade to seventh grade, lots of changes.
Speaker: Second grade to fourth grade.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so they were just kind of in the middle of like being in a new school again, rekindling friendships, making new friends, you know, participating on teams.
Speaker: Like they have very little busy little lives that they were living.
Speaker: And I think they knew, you know, there was definitely something off.
Speaker: Like when you have a double mastectomy, you can't, you would, I didn't know.
Speaker: And no one really told me.
Speaker: You really can't use your arms.
Speaker: They kind of call it dinosaur arms.
Speaker: You can lift them like waist high.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But you can't lift them.
Speaker: You can't lift your shoulder to shoulder height.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like you're flapping chicken wings.
Speaker: You can't do that.
Speaker: You can't open a refrigerator because the suction's too hard.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You can't do all that for a while.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, you'll get it back, but the surgery, it cuts in the pectoral muscles.
Speaker: I have implants put in afterwards.
Speaker: So it cuts in the pectoral muscles.
Speaker: And so you can't do all this stuff.
Speaker: So I think that was something they were like,
Speaker: Why can't you open the refrigerator?
Speaker: And then people were just dropping off food and stopping by.
Speaker: And one time my daughter's playing in the front yard and this mini Cooper pulls up and, you know, this mom's just waving and thumbs up and my daughter jumps in the car and I'm like, was she kidnapped or is she going on a play date?
Speaker: I mean, I knew who the woman was, so she was going on a play date.
Speaker: Um, you know, people just kind of really stepped in.
Speaker: So that was unusual.
Speaker: I don't know if they really equated it to the cancer.
Speaker: They thought maybe like we're stars, we're back in town.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But, um, but yeah, there were a lot of changes.
Speaker: I think it made it closer because I do think in me, it opened, um,
Speaker: Like you said, I became very vulnerable.
Speaker: I wasn't afraid to cry in front of them and not in a scary way, but like, you know, mommy's just worried or mommy's concerned.
Speaker: And then, and just that honesty, like I, I'm going to be honest with them.
Speaker: I'm going to share stuff with them.
Speaker: I don't want to, you know, I'm not going to try to hide anything from them and that they can share their feelings with me too.
Speaker: I don't know if they were as good about that.
Speaker: No, but I love the fact that you didn't make it all about you.
Speaker: Having the kids have their normal is everything.
Speaker: It is their young little lives.
Speaker: What is happening with you, no matter what, if it's at home or divorce or whatever is going on, grandpa's sick or whatever, they need to know that their life is okay and normal and moving forward.
Speaker: Anytime you try to make your life more important or more, that's not right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's not how to do it.
Speaker: I think when you get any type of diagnosis that feels life-threatening, it can be very consuming.
Speaker: Like, I mean, you know, you think about it all the time and then the people around you, it becomes consuming to them.
Speaker: It wasn't on purpose.
Speaker: It's only because we were in a rental home.
Speaker: We had no home to move to.
Speaker: And I think mine was a little driven by sort of like probably like not the best fear, but I was like,
Speaker: If I don't make this for some reason, where are my kids going to live?
Speaker: So I had this insatiable need to find a permanent home for them.
Speaker: And like you said, my husband was a single dad.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, please, no.
Speaker: And I love him, but like, oh.
Speaker: How would that go?
Speaker: But so I wound up buying a house with a sign in front of it that said teardown.com.
Speaker: It was a hundred year old home that was deemed unlivable.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And because we'd renovated houses before.
Speaker: And so I think I unintentionally...
Speaker: threw myself into doing that, renovating that home.
Speaker: I really thought I was going to put lipstick on a pig and just like, we'll just cosmetically kind of update it.
Speaker: Like we'll put a kitchen, fix the baths and like paint.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We had to rip it down to the studs, like new plumbing, new electric, new HVAC, new walls, new, new, new, new with old bones.
Speaker: But a project.
Speaker: It was a huge project.
Speaker: Something to focus on other than the cancer.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So it almost seemed like my appointments were like inconveniences.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, I have to go get the tile.
Speaker: Why do I have to go to the oncologist?
Speaker: So it was very busy and in hindsight, maybe a little too much to bite off.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it really did give me something else to focus on that was sort of positive, right?
Speaker: I was trying to do something to get our family into something that we were all, and the kids got involved, like pick out a light for your room or let's go over to the house and see what the progress is and what have you.
Speaker: So I think that really helped us get from the surgery until we moved in.
Speaker: That kind of helped get us started.
Speaker: through.
Speaker: There's a couple different movies, and I'm not going to even remember the names right now, but where building a home or fixing up a home did mimic that kind of experience.
Speaker: I'm so happy that you had such a good outcome of yours, but like, my life is a house, I think is one of them.
Speaker: There's a second one.
Speaker: I'll put it in the show notes because I'll think about it.
Speaker: But
Speaker: But I think a lot of it, and correct me if I'm wrong, because it's your experience, is wrapping it up in a bow.
Speaker: I know that they'll be safe there.
Speaker: I know that I will have touched, that's going to make me tear up, I will have touched every tile that's going to be in that house and all around them.
Speaker: So even if I'm not necessarily there physically, I am there in all those little pieces.
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I was building a home to put them just in case.
Speaker: And where I bought the home,
Speaker: was a block from the elementary school and right by, you know, in the same district they were in.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And it's not like the best location, but it was the center of town.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And all I kept thinking was, because those were carpool days,
Speaker: No one's ever going to say no to picking up my kid because we're in the center and they have to go by my house no matter what.
Speaker: So that just wrapped it up in a bow.
Speaker: And that's why we bought that house.
Speaker: I mean, that's really why we bought that house.
Speaker: Because, you know, some people are like, I have to go over the tracks.
Speaker: And it was like, nope, center of town.
Speaker: You have to go by my house no matter what practice you go to or what school you go to.
Speaker: Someone will pick up my kid and get where they need to go.
Speaker: Not that my husband would, no, but you know, again.
Speaker: That's yeah.
Speaker: Carpool, right?
Speaker: You never know.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But you also just want to make sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: If you had a busy day.
Speaker: Covering all the bases.
Speaker: It was by the library.
Speaker: It was by the post office.
Speaker: But it is funny how.
Speaker: It could get everywhere.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It is funny how our brains go there, especially as moms.
Speaker: Like I know when my kids were about to go to college, there were certain things that I had to make sure they had.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: That are ridiculous in hindsight, but yeah.
Speaker: Completely.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: But then, you know, you are going to be there in whatever way, or you're wrapping this transition in a bow, you know, I'm just going to make sure it's perfect.
Speaker: I'm going to wrap it up and then, and then they'll be okay.
Speaker: Then they'll
Speaker: be okay because i fixed it yes before there was a problem and i got in there and now they're fine and so then whatever happens happens they have a soft spot to land yeah whatever happens they have this this home to be in so yeah you know like so yeah in hindsight i wouldn't say buying a hundred year old home and renovating there's several other things that you could do to
Speaker: It's not the most practical or the least expensive option.
Speaker: But yeah, there's definitely other things you could do.
Speaker: How did you reach out for help in your community?
Speaker: How did you have the... So it's so funny.
Speaker: I really put a... I did think about this a lot because I think moving back to a community that I've been a part of and you kind of know on the North Shore, it's like these little villages, these little towns.
Speaker: And so if you go to elementary school, you kind of know all those people in elementary school are being in sports.
Speaker: You...
Speaker: meet all these other parents.
Speaker: So moving back, some, you know, people had known that I moved back, you know, people spread the word.
Speaker: And I just think I happen to live in a very generous community where my mom was here and she's like, this is so crazy.
Speaker: I've never seen anything like this.
Speaker: Like the meals that were dropped off and for weeks and weeks, like I would open the door and there'd just be like a Mason jar of soup or
Speaker: some magazine sitting on the doorstep or like the woman who came and just picked up the daughter on the side of the road as she's playing out front.
Speaker: Um, people really brought stuff.
Speaker: So I was very fortunate in that way to have that.
Speaker: Um, so I felt embraced by the community and I'm very, very grateful for it.
Speaker: And it served my kids well.
Speaker: It helped my husband a lot.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Um, people gave rides and people did everything they can.
Speaker: They took it to appointments.
Speaker: Like it was, it was, it was very, very kind.
Speaker: Um, but not everybody has that.
Speaker: And I'm very well aware of that even in the community, right?
Speaker: Like you just might be a more, a quieter person.
Speaker: I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve.
Speaker: I didn't mind if people knew, you know, and that's a big thing.
Speaker: Like asking for that help.
Speaker: Like, Hey, can you take my daughter to soccer or whatever?
Speaker: Sometimes it's embarrassing.
Speaker: Like they needed like some milk.
Speaker: Can you please, like you do feel bad asking, right?
Speaker: But I was like, can you please pick up a gallon of milk?
Speaker: And I think people want to help.
Speaker: They do.
Speaker: I think they feel like, I don't know, paying it forward.
Speaker: They really do.
Speaker: So an organization came, just brought me flowers, just like a little pot of flowers.
Speaker: And it turns out it was an organization in town that it is absolutely, it's a pay it forward organization.
Speaker: And that's where I'm going next.
Speaker: Oh, yay.
Speaker: And so I wound up afterwards joining that because I just felt so tired.
Speaker: touched by that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, but there's, there's definitely there's, um, you know, and in the years since, like I get a lot of phone calls of people who have cancer, breast cancer, what have you, you know, just looking for like a little advice or guidance, you know, people just feel like they just need a springboard.
Speaker: Like where can I go?
Speaker: What can I do?
Speaker: Even if it's not what they do, I think it helps generate.
Speaker: So there's one called Ironman's Angels.
Speaker: And it's someone who's kind of connected with somebody on the North Shore.
Speaker: My son actually graduated with, I think, his niece.
Speaker: When he was about 26, he got testicular cancer.
Speaker: So 26-year-old, testicular cancer, not a lot of friends going through that same thing.
Speaker: So he started this unbelievable organization where they will partner you as a cancer fighter, survivor, a caregiver with someone who has that same cancer and around your same age.
Speaker: Oh, nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so it could be somebody anywhere in the United States.
Speaker: You don't have to live here.
Speaker: It's everywhere.
Speaker: It's global.
Speaker: And so you have someone like if you were a 41 year old breast cancer with two kids, they'll try to find somebody 41 breast cancer with two kids.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Who's been through it a little further across the bridge than you are.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Who can help you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I feel like that is really, really helpful.
Speaker: Um, I did afterwards again, cause I like my arms and everything.
Speaker: My strength was gone.
Speaker: I did Pilates with someone who was certified with, for breast cancer patients.
Speaker: So I didn't, you know, cause you go to those fitness classes and you want to feel like I want to, I can do it too.
Speaker: And you're trying to do stuff.
Speaker: I was hurting myself.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Um, and so she knew like, no, don't do that.
Speaker: That's ridiculous.
Speaker: Like, and she would get me in a different position and do things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so I kind of dove into that and then probably about two years afterwards, I had a friend who, um,
Speaker: She had some family members who were diagnosed with cancer, and she was really struggling as a caregiver.
Speaker: And she and I decided to take a painting class.
Speaker: And sort of the rules were like, we don't talk about that.
Speaker: We don't talk about the kids.
Speaker: We just do this and take time for ourselves doing this.
Speaker: Distraction is excellent.
Speaker: So it's just another little community to get involved in that didn't have something to do with that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So that, my biggest piece of advice is just reach out in some way to something.
Speaker: I mean, there's all the rest cancer organizations.
Speaker: I wasn't, I call it like pink people.
Speaker: I wasn't a pink person.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like, don't give me pink socks.
Speaker: Don't, you don't need to donate my name.
Speaker: I didn't, I didn't, that wasn't my jam.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I think it's great because it's an instant community of all sorts of people from all walks of life who are going through that.
Speaker: You have that common factor of cancer, whether it's someone that you love or you're going through yourself.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So like reach out to that organization and do something like that.
Speaker: So I think that those are all things that really helped me get through.
Speaker: And then some like resources online.
Speaker: There's Chris Carr who wrote Crazy Sexy Cancer.
Speaker: I love her.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And her movie is good too.
Speaker: She really is.
Speaker: I didn't see the movie.
Speaker: I didn't know she had a movie.
Speaker: Yeah, that's how it all started.
Speaker: She did a documentary of herself.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: And just all the self-care practices that she did.
Speaker: So the nutrition and the like, dance it out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You feeling bad?
Speaker: You feeling down?
Speaker: Not today.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Stand up, turn on the happy music.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Chris Carr is a really good one.
Speaker: She's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: She has lots of great books, a great website.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So she's a great one.
Speaker: For practical, like more holistic stuff, I go to Dr. Axe a lot, A-X-E.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Can you follow him?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: He's so great.
Speaker: Any ailment that my kids, I'm like, Google it.
Speaker: whatever it is.
Speaker: Um, and then mind over medicine.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I think her name is Lisa Rankin MD.
Speaker: And that was a big, like that mental kind of part, like, you know, you really, I think wrapping your brain around getting healthy, being healthy,
Speaker: it's not going to solve it.
Speaker: It's not going to cure anything, but I do think that that affects outcome of health.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: Um, so she was pretty inspiring in that.
Speaker: Um, so those are some, you know, kind of good either look on Instagram, Google them that were really, really helpful that I wish that, I mean, I kind of found discovered over time and slowly and one kind of leads to the other.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: But I think if someone had given me like sort of the cheat sheet, I would have been really appreciative.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think just even having a positive mindset, you're right.
Speaker: It doesn't always necessarily change whatever the outcome is, but it's going to help you get through today better.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so if you can stack up a whole bunch of good todays, right, then you're, you're, you're definitely going in the right direction.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's just like the other, another one, and this is the funniest one because it'll resonate with you and I from our
Speaker: Growing up, but Suzanne Sommer, Chrissy from Three's Company.
Speaker: Yes, with the Thighmaster.
Speaker: Wasn't that the name of her thing?
Speaker: The Thighmaster.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Yep, okay.
Speaker: She has written several books.
Speaker: One was Toxic, and then the other one was Knockout.
Speaker: She had cancer.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And she wrote some really good books, which you wouldn't expect from Little Miss Suzanne Sommer.
Speaker: Her experience, absolutely.
Speaker: She wrote some good books, too, so that's another one to look up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Each to his own.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Yeah, what you like.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: So, I mean, if you do like kind of the one, two, three, you have to do the grieving process.
Speaker: You had a moment where you said, you know, in the bargaining phase.
Speaker: So was your grief over...
Speaker: that you thought you might not be around?
Speaker: What was your grief wrapped around?
Speaker: My grief was wrapped around, yeah, I was terrified.
Speaker: My work wasn't done.
Speaker: I still have work to do.
Speaker: As a mom on the planet?
Speaker: All of it.
Speaker: Just all of it.
Speaker: I'm not done doing what I'm doing.
Speaker: I'm not done doing what I'm doing.
Speaker: And please let me be here for another day to do it.
Speaker: So yeah, I was really grieving that.
Speaker: I was grieving my body because essentially, like as a woman,
Speaker: part of you is being taken away.
Speaker: And, um, and he, you know, it's really hard because a lot of people think you're getting a boob job.
Speaker: Well, you know what?
Speaker: I would take a real boob job over this boob job.
Speaker: Like this, it's pretty barbaric what they do.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, the, the external, like it might like fine from the outside, but your insides have been carved apart and I can't do things that like, I can't push and pull the way I used to be able to.
Speaker: And it feels a little debilitating.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so, I mean, there's worse things obviously, but like,
Speaker: You know, it's just like your body's changing.
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: Your body's changing.
Speaker: You didn't choose it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, so that at 41, that was pretty tough to take.
Speaker: So am I a woman?
Speaker: If they take it, you know, I was going to have a complete hysterectomy as well.
Speaker: I chose not to ultimately.
Speaker: But, you know, that's a lot of your womanhood being sort of stripped from you at one time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So kind of grieving the loss of my body.
Speaker: of what is my lifespan?
Speaker: Even if I do survive this, am I going to live as long as I was supposed to?
Speaker: Just kind of all those things go through your head.
Speaker: And it's pretty scary.
Speaker: I think there's also another piece too, which is the sense of control.
Speaker: We feel like we get to choose these lives that we live.
Speaker: And I chose to get married and I chose to be a mom.
Speaker: I chose the town where I lived in.
Speaker: I chose my house and all those things.
Speaker: And I did not choose this.
Speaker: I did not.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: I did not sign up for this little blip in my life.
Speaker: Thank you very much.
Speaker: And so it really is a very humbling thing to realize that we're not in control.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: There is someone else.
Speaker: Someone else who does a plan.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: The whole life's like a box of chocolates.
Speaker: You never know what you're going to get, right?
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: There's a moment where you do, I don't care how old you are, and you're like, no, I didn't choose that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so that feeling that we are in control of our lives is like, oh, okay, that's not real.
Speaker: So then where do I put those feelings?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Well, and then you're turning any control you do have over, I've turned it over to the surgeon, to the plastic surgeon, to my oncologist.
Speaker: to my regular doctor.
Speaker: You're turning over a lot of control.
Speaker: A lot of people are making decisions on your behalf.
Speaker: Ultimately you're in charge of like what that final outcome is, but you don't know.
Speaker: I didn't go to medical school.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: What should I do?
Speaker: I'm at like, what should I do?
Speaker: And so you're, you're putting your life in the hands of a lot of other people.
Speaker: Like I remember before I went into surgery, I asked the doctor, it got delayed, delayed, delayed, you know, during the day.
Speaker: And I asked the doctor, I'm like, um, did you eat it?
Speaker: Could you want a turkey sandwich?
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: I gotta have you.
Speaker: Like, it can't be hungry.
Speaker: Are you tired?
Speaker: You're such a mom.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: He's looking at me like, what are you talking about?
Speaker: You're like, what?
Speaker: I'm making sure you're ready for this, man.
Speaker: Yeah, I know.
Speaker: I'm like, I need you and you're better.
Speaker: Like, this got late in the day.
Speaker: I was not your first patient.
Speaker: You've been in surgery for six hours.
Speaker: Like, can you do this?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I need this outcome to be good.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Um, you know, he just laughed like he's very professional and he knew what he was doing, but, um, but you're right.
Speaker: You're not holding that scalpel.
Speaker: No, right.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And like, are you like me?
Speaker: Like draw on here, like cut this, not this, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you do give away a lot of your control.
Speaker: And even like we were talking about the, you know, people had to take care of my kids, give me a lot of carpool, my kids, people had to bring me food.
Speaker: I couldn't grocery shop.
Speaker: I couldn't even get a mug out of the cabinet.
Speaker: You know, I couldn't lift my arm to open the cabinet and grab a mug and bring it down to the countertop.
Speaker: So you just, you really had to, I had to depend on a lot of people to help me kind of get through some.
Speaker: you know, it all gets better.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Um, but you know, when you're fully capable and competent person, you're running your own life to all of a sudden be at the, you know, can't pour yourself a cup of coffee.
Speaker: Could not.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Could.
Speaker: Or yeah.
Speaker: I mean, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, people are trying to tell you what to do and what to eat.
Speaker: And then also, yeah, people are telling you like, are you sure you have to have that surgery?
Speaker: Why don't you just have a lumpectomy instead of double mastectomy?
Speaker: All of a sudden everybody's like an expert.
Speaker: And so that's hard too, because you're trying to just come to terms with a decision that you've made.
Speaker: I follow the advice of my doctors of what to do, but other people have their input and their feelings on when you should tell your kids, what you should do, what doctors you should go to.
Speaker: No, this one's better than that one.
Speaker: It's just like you're sort of filtering a lot.
Speaker: And it's all best intended.
Speaker: People think they're trying to help, but it's hard to manage.
Speaker: You've got a lot coming at you.
Speaker: So you do, you just kind of have to listen to your own instincts of, you know, get quiet and think, what do I want to do?
Speaker: And be humble.
Speaker: Like there's a little bit there of like, okay, but I'm alive and I'm here and I can't pour my own coffee, but I'm here and I get to say goodnight to my kids later.
Speaker: You know, like that, that's again, where that mindset really comes back around.
Speaker: Because you can be angry and frustrated.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or you can be grateful and humble.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think I went to gratitude really fast.
Speaker: Like, I don't know if I was ever true.
Speaker: I think I was frustrated sometimes or been frustrated since.
Speaker: But I do think that I went to a place of gratitude, like even later on, like, say, like five years out, you know, when, um,
Speaker: Like all, you know, the kids, like, you know, whatever.
Speaker: Another podcast, another time about parents and sports and achievement and all of that.
Speaker: And, you know, you kind of get swept up in the current of things and like we should be doing this and this and this.
Speaker: And I remember one time my daughter was –
Speaker: playing soccer, you know, probably five years after and she was playing soccer and I mean, she put on her shin guards and be crocodile tears.
Speaker: Like she didn't want to go.
Speaker: But that's what everybody did, right?
Speaker: That's what all the girls did.
Speaker: This is what you did.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: You know, made a higher team in a different league.
Speaker: You know,
Speaker: whatever.
Speaker: We just thought this is the thing.
Speaker: It paid all this money, you know, my gosh, this is what we should be doing.
Speaker: And, um, this, Oh, this will create all sorts of good things in you.
Speaker: And the poor girls who, I mean, just miserable.
Speaker: It was just not her thing, right?
Speaker: She did not want to do it.
Speaker: And I just wasn't listening.
Speaker: And then, you know, kind of watched her at one tournament and, um,
Speaker: I just kind of sat in it for a minute and I was like, what are we doing?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I didn't even say you need to finish it, finish out the season.
Speaker: I just said, we're out.
Speaker: We're out.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You're in separate.
Speaker: What's the worst thing that's going to happen?
Speaker: You're out.
Speaker: And people are like, well, you know, you make a commitment.
Speaker: You need to follow through.
Speaker: We've committed to a lot of stuff.
Speaker: We have followed through with tons of things.
Speaker: this is miserable for all of us.
Speaker: But also you committed to showing up for your girl when she needed you.
Speaker: And when she tells you, this is not okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And listen to her gut and said, this is not okay.
Speaker: You showing up and meeting her there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's the lesson.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That was, yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, the money is hard to be like, Oh, and the uniforms and the pieces in the bag that they had to have to match the color.
Speaker: Oh my God.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But that, that connection that you've made with her by listening was,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And again, you know, I have a little bit of a pessimistic attitude, but like if I'm not here two weeks from now, am I going to be really glad that I forced my daughter to go be part of something that was not giving her anything back or she valued that was really giving her back at the moment?
Speaker: And we suffered through that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Would I rather spend this next...
Speaker: two weeks, like enjoying my daughter and finding, spending time finding anything that did light her up.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: That made her glow that she wanted to go to.
Speaker: It wasn't like, we're going to quit this and never participate again.
Speaker: And nor are we saying to like sign up and like quit after once.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So just again, for the moms at home, we're not saying that.
Speaker: We gave it a good old college try, like the fall semester and halfway into the spring.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: The second half of the spring, I'm like, no, she's not feeling it.
Speaker: We can be
Speaker: this.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: And neither one of us are failing or, or I guess, I guess we were quitting technically, but like quitting to move on to something better.
Speaker: Sometimes if something isn't serving you, it's okay to say that was that experience.
Speaker: Put it down.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Put it down.
Speaker: And it's a, and then it's going to give us room to grow, to find another experience to go to.
Speaker: You're absolutely right because you do have to make that room.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, you can't do it if that's filling all your time.
Speaker: Totally.
Speaker: You need something else to go to.
Speaker: Okay, so before I ask you my cheesy mom questions, is there anything else that you wanted to say on the breast cancer front?
Speaker: I just wanted to double check and make sure that I was giving you that space.
Speaker: If someone finds himself with a cancer situation, Dr. Sarah here says...
Speaker: which I have no medical degree.
Speaker: So that's not- My opinion is.
Speaker: In my opinion, try to cut the sugar.
Speaker: And for cancer patients, they should be between like a 60 and 80, where the American Medical Association thinks, I think it tells you like 20 is a low-
Speaker: So no, 20 is way too low.
Speaker: So vitamin D, get your vitamin D in there and cut out sugar.
Speaker: My two pieces of like little medical advice on that, which in my opinion, yes.
Speaker: And then just follow, follow your gut.
Speaker: And just when it comes to your kids, if, if they have questions and you don't know, just say, I don't know.
Speaker: And I'm going to ask my doctor next time I see them, you know, and just be on as honest with them as you can without over explaining or
Speaker: or over telling they don't really need or want to know the gory details no but i love that like oh you have more questions great let's make a list together yeah just you know and so they feel like they're kind of can get it out of them yeah let's write them all down right oftentimes they might not even care what the answer is they just kind of wanted to tell you that they have questions yeah um yeah so i think that those would be maybe and find find
Speaker: Find your something other than cancer.
Speaker: Find something else, whether it's just walking with a friend.
Speaker: Maybe you start a lunch group.
Speaker: Maybe you get really into reading or a sport or knit or painting.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: But just find something outside of yourself that brings you some joy and some pleasure.
Speaker: So you don't get consumed and you might not feel good.
Speaker: You might be going through chemo or radiation.
Speaker: You might not feel good, but it's like, you know, organize your photos, your digital photos, start scanning photos, just do something that you can do wherever you are in your health journey to get you outside of that.
Speaker: So you're not so consumed with it because it will eat you alive.
Speaker: Like it will really consume you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's not on your mind forefront all the time running that hamster wheel of it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's good advice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's good advice.
Speaker: I know there's the one called, I think it's the Gershon method or Institute and they're big on to all the raw food to just, just flood your body with as much fruit and vegetables as humanly possible.
Speaker: And that's a whole nother, but I love your vitamin D in your.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, we had a juicer and we just started instantly juicing.
Speaker: Like I did juice too much sugar and we get a lot of
Speaker: fruit ones, but, um, juice your greens, you know, just clean up your diet.
Speaker: Basically.
Speaker: Oh, another one is the food, babe.
Speaker: Do you follow the food?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love her.
Speaker: And her protein powder is brilliant.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the food, babe, I would just, yeah.
Speaker: Clean up your diet.
Speaker: Big time.
Speaker: Big time.
Speaker: I know it's hard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm not the best.
Speaker: I really falter at that.
Speaker: Well, they say 80-20.
Speaker: If your diet is right on 80% of the time, let's just start there.
Speaker: Well, it's hard because I know in my brain what the right things are and I make bad choices all the time.
Speaker: But I'm trying.
Speaker: You're doing great.
Speaker: I'm trying.
Speaker: You're doing great.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: And I also say with the doctors, you don't have to just have one doctor.
Speaker: I look at it as like a bicycle wheel on the hub and then they're all my spokes.
Speaker: So I have my, and I went through three oncologists.
Speaker: Like I was like, no, you seem to- Listen to your gut.
Speaker: Good for you.
Speaker: You're, you're a little too out there for me.
Speaker: And I finally found my guy and he's my guy and I love him.
Speaker: Um, but, and I have my regular doctor.
Speaker: I have my functional doctor.
Speaker: I have my therapist.
Speaker: I have all my spokes and then I make the decision.
Speaker: Good for you.
Speaker: You know, don't just follow one.
Speaker: You, you have advocacy and agency over your own body and your own choices.
Speaker: People haven't been to 100 oncology appointments with me.
Speaker: So they don't get to chime in on my health care, my decisions.
Speaker: Go girl.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I filter all the information from all my doctors and then I make my choice about what I want to do.
Speaker: And I found doctors who were willing to work with me on that.
Speaker: And, you know, they don't always like it.
Speaker: My oncologist is like, I don't like that you're not doing this.
Speaker: I'm like, okay.
Speaker: And he's like, but I'm with you.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, here we go down this journey and 10 years cancer-free.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Two questions quick.
Speaker: One, best advice you ever received just on parenting.
Speaker: You have two kids.
Speaker: Is there any like grandma advice that you ever received that you were like, that's good advice.
Speaker: I should pass that along.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I have, I actually have two.
Speaker: My grandmother used to tell me all the time when I was a little kid, well, if you didn't get dirty and didn't have fun,
Speaker: So like as kids, like get dirty, get out there, go play in the dirt.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Give them a spoon and send them outside.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Such a teacher thing to say, but absolutely.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Go play in the dirt, go play under a tree, go collect acorns, play with the leaves, draw some leaves.
Speaker: go play in the dirt go get dirty get messy you don't have to be clean um and then the other one is my dad used to always say and this kind of pertains more to like my older kids um that there's always another trolley coming down the track love it whether it's a relationship a job a friend an experience there's always another trolley come down the track you might not see it coming down the track but it's coming down the track it's
Speaker: coming.
Speaker: And so sometimes this one wasn't for you.
Speaker: This one, maybe the next one was for you.
Speaker: It wasn't your door.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, just wait, wait for the next trolley.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: And then final question.
Speaker: I hate to say happiest because I know that you've had a million happy family moments, but a family moment where you were just like, this is it.
Speaker: This is the moment.
Speaker: This is awesome.
Speaker: I just am so happy here.
Speaker: And so if this podcast was like a time capsule and your kids would hear it 10, 20, 30 years from now when you are still kicking around, thank you very much.
Speaker: So happy you're here.
Speaker: They'd be like, oh, I remember that.
Speaker: And they know how much it meant to you and to them.
Speaker: Yeah, well, I'll tell you.
Speaker: I gave you pre-thought because I've heard you ask on your other day.
Speaker: podcast.
Speaker: So I was ready for this one.
Speaker: And it's so funny because, um,
Speaker: this is the memory that I've used every time I've gone under anesthesia because I've had a couple of surgeries.
Speaker: And it's always the, because one of the anesthesiologists said, I was like, what can I do to like make this better or whatever?
Speaker: And he said, just think of a happy family memory, something that makes you happy.
Speaker: And I, every time I've gone in, this is what I just, the image I play over my mind is when, and this won't resonate with anybody else that I tell them.
Speaker: It doesn't matter.
Speaker: We used to go to this island in South Carolina.
Speaker: It was pretty underdeveloped, but they give you these golf carts to ride around on.
Speaker: And to get from one beach to another, you had to go through a forest.
Speaker: It was just a dirt path with a lot of bumps and puddles and whatever.
Speaker: And so we'd load, Greg and I would load the kids on and we called it the spooky forest because there w as a lot of like old oak trees with the Spanish moss hanging down.
Speaker: And we would just floor it.
Speaker: Like floor it through this thing.
Speaker: Dust would be flying in the air.
Speaker: The kids are bouncing off and just the laughing and the screaming.
Speaker: And we would just like, I mean, we'd ruin these golf carts.
Speaker: Like, oh,
Speaker: I mean, we just terrorize these golf carts, but going through the spooky forest and you wind up on the other side of this beach that no one was ever on.
Speaker: And we find sand dollars and we'd always say, what gift is the ocean giving us today?
Speaker: Sometimes there'd be
Speaker: starfish or those sea slugs or shells, whatever was out there, sand dollars.
Speaker: And so that is a memory.
Speaker: And I asked, I asked my son about that.
Speaker: And he, that's the first thing he said.
Speaker: And then my daughter was like, I don't know.
Speaker: She's like, well, what is yours?
Speaker: And I'm like the spook.
Speaker: And she goes, you know, she's just, exactly.
Speaker: So yeah, the spooky forest with our kids when,
Speaker: when they were little.
Speaker: And it's just, you know, and it's something to go good.
Speaker: When you're having one of those days, go back and go look at your, think about one of those little memories that makes you happy.
Speaker: Instant mood shift.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And that's what I was going to say.
Speaker: I don't care if anyone's never been in a golf cart going through a spooky forest.
Speaker: It's that taking those moments to realize that now could be one of those moments.
Speaker: I don't care what happened five minutes ago, or if one of them fell out of the golf cart and was screaming and crying and it turned into, I don't care.
Speaker: It's just that, that split second when you're like, this is awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Do you ever do that?
Speaker: Like sometimes I go, oh, I want to remember this.
Speaker: I should write it down.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And I'm the worst about taking pictures and video and all that.
Speaker: I don't have any because I try to stay in the moment so much that like even one of my posts, I think it was either my son's 16th or 18th birthday and we had just like the best family dinner ever.
Speaker: And I think my post after, cause you know, Instagram or whatever was like, did you ever have one of those dinners that was so great that you didn't, you forgot to take pictures.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You forgot to take a picture.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Because it was so good.
Speaker: And you did want to just be in the moment.
Speaker: And you just wanted to remember like your kids' faces at that moment because they all change so much, you know, day in and day out.
Speaker: So, so this is to those moms out there.
Speaker: Just soak it in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: This could be one of those moments right now, or you could have one later today or this weekend, or maybe create one this weekend.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And those are probably the best moments where you don't take the picture because you're so wrapped up in it.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: But then I go like, Oh, I remember I said, I wanted to remember this moment.
Speaker: What was it?
Speaker: That's got to age.
Speaker: Anyway, I love you.
Speaker: Thank you for being here.
Speaker: And a double episode.
Speaker: So you're the best.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Well, I'm not the best.
Speaker: You're the best.
Speaker: You're the best.
Speaker: you completely from it, right?
Speaker: So yes, the trauma response.
Speaker: However, if you grew up in a household, while your attachment style is forming and you're going through this, you're, for instance, anxious attachment style is truly about
Speaker: Learning how to just cope with your anxiety and oftentimes because you're not getting your knees met sometimes and sometimes you are and you're just trying to figure out how to get through this as a child.
Speaker: And so what you learn to do is just become hyper vigilant about what other people need or what you think they need or if something's just the tiniest bit off.
Speaker: And oftentimes those things are not actually what that person needs.
Speaker: So that's true service is doing sometimes the harder thing.
Speaker: It's actually not making them happy.
Speaker: It's actually challenging them.
Speaker: It's even as a parent, right?
Speaker: We can't please our children all the time.
Speaker: Being of true service to them is being...
Speaker: is honoring yourself.
Speaker: What, you know, even what you just said, you hear this quote, it's off.
Speaker: I want to, I want to agree with you, but there's something in me that's like, no.
Speaker: So self-sacrifice would be, Oh, put that aside.
Speaker: This, this person of authority is right.
Speaker: And I'm not right.
Speaker: And that's not right.
Speaker: That's your, you honoring that authentic truth in yourself and then showing up in that way in the world.
Speaker: the greatest service of all, in my opinion.
Speaker: That goes back to, and I would love to hear your take on this.
Speaker: I know that I'm a parent who loves to rescue.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I am the queen of jumping in and let me take care of it before it's a problem.
Speaker: But when your kids get, especially to the teen years, but at any age, tying their shoes for them, bringing their homework to school for them, rescuing them,
Speaker: not only isn't helpful, but again, you're taking away from them being able to figure out how to take care of themselves.
Speaker: But it's so hard in, again, in our current, because making a mistake is so wrong and so bad and they get so, you know, docked down at school if, you know, they did forget their homework one time.
Speaker: So we feel like we need to rescue to keep them on that path, but it's also not healthy.
Speaker: How do you show up for your boys in that way and not...
Speaker: not over rescue, but also help.
Speaker: What is that online there?
Speaker: It's tempting.
Speaker: I think one of the things I grew up in a household where I was also rescued a lot.
Speaker: And one of the things I learned from that was that the, the uneducated,
Speaker: the hidden message in that is actually that I was not capable of rescuing myself.
Speaker: And so I think like what we're talking about with service, there's different levels of service.
Speaker: Yes, it is one level to show up, bring your children, right?
Speaker: But the higher level of service, the one that's going to probably impact their life in a much greater way is when I let them know that they're, yes, they can, not only can they
Speaker: survive the consequence of this, but they get to learn from it.
Speaker: And then they get to realize that they are capable and stronger than they even imagined because of this mistake.
Speaker: And to me, that lesson is going to serve them much more than
Speaker: the maybe that moment when they don't have, you know, the, the little ding on their home or whatever.
Speaker: It's hard though, because yes, there's a part of us that really pulls that we want to just make it better.
Speaker: And that's, I think it's biological, you know?
Speaker: So, so that work again, there's where that work comes in understanding that there's different levels and being fully conscious of, okay, what am I, what is the message here?
Speaker: The intrinsic message that I am giving my child and what is going to serve my child more
Speaker: Which choice should I make here?
Speaker: And in the moment, sometimes that means they're not super happy with you.
Speaker: But in the end, you know what?
Speaker: This moment's going to pass and they're going to be grateful later.
Speaker: They're going to know that to me, I just want to send out.
Speaker: I have two boys and I want to send them out as empowered as I can for them to know that they can, you know.
Speaker: lead this incredible life and that they can lead their own life and be really not only successful, but very happy and feel fulfilled because of that.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: And then there's the other piece of, you know, because you also have that age where I'm sure you're driving, driving them everywhere and to friends' houses and to sports and to all the things.
Speaker: And you get those conversations in the car.
Speaker: I love those when they just kind of open up for no reason at all.
Speaker: And this guy did this and then this happened and you just get to hear all this stuff.
Speaker: And one just amazing piece of advice that I got and have keep trying to do is the, do you want me to just listen?
Speaker: fix it or give you advice.
Speaker: And sometimes they do want the advice.
Speaker: They might not always take it, but they want to know, you know, if you are close with them and they appreciate your advice, right?
Speaker: And they know it's worked in the past.
Speaker: They want your advice, but they definitely don't always want you to fix it and take care of it.
Speaker: You know, a lot of times they just need to kind of get it out to a safe place and then they can figure out where they go.
Speaker: So I love that advice for, again, kids of any age.
Speaker: Sometimes they just need to get it out.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: And even as a coach in my own life, I have these different hats.
Speaker: So I have to ask that question sometimes to my friends.
Speaker: It gets confusing.
Speaker: So even as a parent, that's a really it's a great place to do that, too.
Speaker: It makes sense.
Speaker: which hat do you want me to wear here?
Speaker: I'll do one.
Speaker: Sometimes you're just like holding it in in your mind.
Speaker: You're like, oh, don't tell them what to do.
Speaker: And one of my little mantras with my kids has always been anything, anytime.
Speaker: If you need me, I will be there.
Speaker: I don't care what it is on what day.
Speaker: My son was down in Venice and his car got towed.
Speaker: And guess who came to help him to go to the place?
Speaker: And here's your credit card, darling, to get your car out of the thing.
Speaker: But I showed up.
Speaker: You know, you need to call me.
Speaker: I am there no matter what.
Speaker: And having those, you know, that foundation so that he can go and do whatever he needs to do.
Speaker: But he knows if he needs me, I will be there 100%.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: And I love, again, talking about intrinsic messages, the way that our kids are able to then internalize those things is so incredible, like that they're
Speaker: you know, I am worth being shown up for, I am worth showing up for, right?
Speaker: And that's, so doing those things is such a beautiful way to model for them to then internalize those things.
Speaker: Just like we internalize the negative, that harsh critical voice came from somewhere, right?
Speaker: So it's the same thing.
Speaker: It's a beautiful model.
Speaker: It really, it is just because you're right.
Speaker: Anything that they hear growing up just becomes their inner voice.
Speaker: And the concept of, and I think it's falling aside and I hope it's just completely gone, but that we need to tough them up at home so that they can deal with tough critics outside in the world.
Speaker: I find to be absolutely the opposite.
Speaker: know how amazing they are and loved and, you know, supported and all those things.
Speaker: So that when they have something hard happen to them, they're like, yeah, no, that's not right.
Speaker: I know I'm amazing.
Speaker: I, you know, I know my parents have my back.
Speaker: I'm not going to take that behavior.
Speaker: Thank you very much.
Speaker: And they're not looking for love in all the wrong places.
Speaker: They love themselves enough to know,
Speaker: that's not right.
Speaker: I'm amazing.
Speaker: I totally agree with you.
Speaker: And I think those toughen up things become trauma.
Speaker: And so no, it's not helpful in that way, in my opinion.
Speaker: I think
Speaker: what you're saying is so true that in order to help them distinguish what is okay and not okay, and to understand what does love look like?
Speaker: What does, you know, what is showing up for myself look like?
Speaker: What does accountability look like?
Speaker: All these things they're learning.
Speaker: And then they take that out.
Speaker: And, and yeah, I think that's, it sets you up to, to launch yourself even more.
Speaker: And the same thing with relationships, by the way, when you have a really healthy, you know, just,
Speaker: loving, happy relationship, that also is one of the foundations that people can use to then launch into the world and go further than if they're in a really painful, chaotic relationship.
Speaker: It can actually affect our life in all areas.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: In all the ways, absolutely.
Speaker: Okay, so let's jump into boundaries a little bit.
Speaker: I love Brene Brown's way of saying like, this is what's okay and this is what's not okay.
Speaker: And it's really honestly just that simple.
Speaker: You know, for me, shouting or yelling near me, not okay.
Speaker: Deal breaker, not gonna happen.
Speaker: And then there's the step two, which is if that happens, I'm gonna remove myself.
Speaker: I'm gonna, right?
Speaker: So you're not just telling somebody where your line is
Speaker: And your line can be whatever your line is, right?
Speaker: There it goes back to what your needs are.
Speaker: You get to pick whatever is okay and what's not okay.
Speaker: But then what are you going to do about it if someone tries to cross your boundary?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: One of the most important parts of boundaries, especially and challenging, especially as a codependent or recovering codependent is actually enforcing the consequence.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And because that enforcement of the consequence is reinforcing your own value and your own worth.
Speaker: which when you fully grasp that, you will reflect that in your relationships.
Speaker: And you're also informing them, yeah, what you are worth and what your value is.
Speaker: And sometimes people need to see that and understand that.
Speaker: So that's a huge part of the boundaries.
Speaker: I feel like it's easier to know what they are, but then to actually follow through.
Speaker: If you say, this is, I'm going to remove myself of this, if you cross this line and this boundary, that can be really hard, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: In a relationship, as a parent, that's different, but you know,
Speaker: Enforcing consequences as a parent is also important, but that's not.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But no, it is scary in a, in a love relationship because they could be like, yeah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker: And then that's that.
Speaker: And you're like, Oh God, I said I would do this and now you're going to follow through, but you'll find on the other side of that is honestly the, if you can, if you can get through that and be strong enough, cause that's really difficult to just take that stand for yourself and
Speaker: then you will, on the other side of that, you will start to magnetize people that also do that.
Speaker: And that is really powerful stuff.
Speaker: It's really powerful.
Speaker: Boundaries are like magical.
Speaker: They really are.
Speaker: And they actually, it is with kids too, because kids can get, they can pick up some bad habits of talking bad to you or not treating you with respect or whatever.
Speaker: And so it is a hard thing, but to be like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm going to take a step.
Speaker: I'd like you to try that again.
Speaker: I'm sorry, but I'm not going to let you talk to me that way.
Speaker: I love you so much.
Speaker: Let's try that again.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And you might have to do that like three times and they'll kick and scream and whatever.
Speaker: But it is honestly that what's okay and what's not okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And being consistent with that so that because kids have a way of pushing and testing and trying to find a hole somewhere, right?
Speaker: So true.
Speaker: So it's a great practice for us as adults to work on our consistency and to work on continuously, you know, our actions are backing up our words.
Speaker: Again, really great models to them.
Speaker: So, and it's so important to let your kids know
Speaker: that, you know, what is okay and what is not okay, what is acceptable for you, how to be treated and what is not.
Speaker: And these are all such valuable lessons that they're watching us teach them is really the reality of that.
Speaker: And again, they're watching everything.
Speaker: They hear everything.
Speaker: They feel everything.
Speaker: I know all the time.
Speaker: Yes, all the things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: Okay, so I want to touch on something that's a big deal, not just for everyone these days, but definitely for kids.
Speaker: And that's the concept of anxiety.
Speaker: I think social media is doing such a big deal in a good way of let us all be aware that anxiety.
Speaker: Mental health can be something that we work on.
Speaker: It doesn't have, we all have emotions, right?
Speaker: We're going to have good days and bad days and we're going to have all these things and how you get out of it or deal with it is really the thing.
Speaker: But you also hear so many, Oh, I have anxiety disorder because I felt anxious, you know, this many times.
Speaker: And it can be,
Speaker: It doesn't have to be a disorder just because you're feeling anxiety, right?
Speaker: And so I just heard this amazing thing about how anxiety actually is where you know you can't predict what's happening, right?
Speaker: So like my son is actually waiting right now to hear a school he's transferring into for colleges.
Speaker: I cannot control his acceptances to college, right?
Speaker: So I'm feeling a little anxiety about what's going to happen.
Speaker: However, it can be...
Speaker: You can go to excitement of what could happen, or you can go to worst case scenario of what could happen that way.
Speaker: And so anxiety can actually be a tool that you're like, okay, I feel this, I understand.
Speaker: And then all those things we talked about of the awareness and then kind of driving out of that skid of having it, it doesn't stop you.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Like if it's fear, if it's old school fear, you're done.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: I'm too scared.
Speaker: I'm not doing it.
Speaker: I'm out.
Speaker: But anxiety, if we kind of reframe it as the excitement of what could happen, then it's not this thing that just stops us in our tracks.
Speaker: What's your two cents on that?
Speaker: Yes, I agree with that.
Speaker: I think anxiety is a gift.
Speaker: And I think it is, again, a signal that, you know, that we're given when
Speaker: We are about to step into something out of our comfort zone or unknown or the unknown is the big part, right?
Speaker: And that's, guess what?
Speaker: That's where all of growth is.
Speaker: That's where all of healing is.
Speaker: That's where all of expansion in our life is.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: It's almost like a signal that you're on the right track, keep going.
Speaker: It could also be a signal that you need to do what we talked about earlier, which is a little bit more self-care.
Speaker: But no matter what, it's talking to us.
Speaker: And we don't want to fight anxiety.
Speaker: The second we start to fight it, it fights back, right?
Speaker: So we want to welcome it.
Speaker: We want to ask it questions.
Speaker: Be like, hmm, what are you trying?
Speaker: What is this about?
Speaker: And start to get curious.
Speaker: That curiosity is...
Speaker: actually makes friends with the anxiety.
Speaker: And then what you're saying, it could then become excitement.
Speaker: It can become something else.
Speaker: And as long as it doesn't stop you.
Speaker: And the key to that is not believing the thoughts all the time.
Speaker: So
Speaker: Start to, like there's Byron Katie, there's a bunch of people that do thought work, which is start to question those thoughts that are causing you anxiety, right?
Speaker: So again, that curiosity.
Speaker: And then understand that oftentimes those aren't fully, those aren't real, those aren't true.
Speaker: And they're just happening because of what you just said, which is, I don't know the future.
Speaker: So I'm going to start to
Speaker: to try to grab onto certainty.
Speaker: And we can't really do that.
Speaker: So understanding that it's okay, that the thoughts are not, you can watch them pass by like on a luggage rack.
Speaker: You don't have to pick them up and play with them, but you can pick better feeling thoughts, right?
Speaker: So if you have a choice, like what you just said, well, this could go this way or this could, right?
Speaker: But not the worst case scenario.
Speaker: So
Speaker: Choose which thoughts you do want to pick up.
Speaker: And then oftentimes that's a great path forward out of the anxiety into something different.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: And then it also, you know, that anxiety, you get that flood of hormones that goes through your system.
Speaker: So you have a little bit of dopamine, which helps you to, you know, propel forward.
Speaker: And then you also, I guess, get some oxytocin at that time.
Speaker: And so if you can find someone, you know, as a mom to be there for your kids or in a relationship that can go through it with you, can talk through it with you, someone that you trust to come together and, you
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But wouldn't it again, like you were saying future self, you know, maybe my future self will look back and go, wow, good job.
Speaker: You know, I understand that you felt that, but that again, I agree with you that it can just be a gift, right?
Speaker: It doesn't have to be this thing that just stops us.
Speaker: It doesn't have to be this thing.
Speaker: Oh, I have anxiety.
Speaker: I know it's a good thing.
Speaker: Again, get curious, write it out.
Speaker: What's best case scenario.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that anxiety it's, it's it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Again, it's there for a reason.
Speaker: There's
Speaker: it has a purpose in our life.
Speaker: So starting to befriend it and understand that it's not, I know it's uncomfortable.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I know it can be like torture, but that's a lot of the time because we're fighting it and we're like, we don't, I don't want to feel it.
Speaker: And then, then this vortex, you know, this, this spiral starts to happen.
Speaker: So just catch yourself in the spiral and, and, and start to be curious with it, start to interact with it.
Speaker: Instead of fight it.
Speaker: And then it does become this incredible inner kind of guide along with other things in us, you know, that show us how to move forward.
Speaker: And what you just said was so important.
Speaker: Co-regulating.
Speaker: Huge tool to help you cope with anxiety, regulate your nervous system.
Speaker: Same goal as before.
Speaker: Co-regulating, especially with other moms.
Speaker: That's gotten me through so many things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: My husband used to be gone on location all the time and I would have friends come over almost every night and just sit with me when they didn't have kids yet.
Speaker: So it was easier that I had kids really young.
Speaker: And then just having that space and time.
Speaker: Or now I have moms, friends that have a lot younger than I do.
Speaker: And then remembering how I felt at that time, going on a hike.
Speaker: And just talking, letting them talk and vent that out is one of the most helpful ways to deal with that.
Speaker: But yeah, it's magic.
Speaker: I totally agree.
Speaker: I totally agree.
Speaker: And you can co-regulate with your kids, too.
Speaker: You know, when you see they're having big feelings and there's lots going on.
Speaker: One of my tricks was always add water.
Speaker: you know, put some warm water in the sink with some bubbles and let them like play in there and they'll start, it'll start coming out or put them in the bath.
Speaker: And I used to sit on the toilet in the bathroom with the kids in the bathtub for hours, just let them, you know, do whatever.
Speaker: And some of that stuff will come out.
Speaker: So yeah, you can do it with other moms.
Speaker: You can do it with a partner if they're available.
Speaker: You can do it with kids.
Speaker: You can do it with a pet.
Speaker: My dog is fabulous at co-regulating, right?
Speaker: Just feeling the breathing of your head and then add nature.
Speaker: You're absolutely right.
Speaker: And movement, right?
Speaker: So anything, you can just move the energy through your body.
Speaker: Sometimes it's literally just stuck and it just needs to move.
Speaker: And it can be as simple as that.
Speaker: A nice walk or yoga, whatever you do.
Speaker: Your weights, heavy weightlifting, boxing, anything.
Speaker: No kickboxing.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I don't want to give you too long, but your advice is just amazing.
Speaker: So again, I'm so appreciative of your time.
Speaker: So let me just jump into my last two little mom questions.
Speaker: Cause you are a mom as well.
Speaker: From a,
Speaker: Grandma, unconditional love place.
Speaker: Was there a piece of advice that you got from anyone in your life that really helped you as a mom?
Speaker: So just a good piece of advice that worked for you that you could pass along to other moms coming up behind you.
Speaker: Oh gosh, there's so many, but I think the thing for me personally, because I have, you know, struggled with perfectionism for so long and feeling like I have to be perfect at something I've never experienced.
Speaker: known to, right?
Speaker: Like until we're in it, we don't know how to do it.
Speaker: There's going to be plenty of mistakes.
Speaker: And I didn't really ever experience being
Speaker: you know, someone taking responsibility or just acknowledging that there was a mistake made that kids are very egocentric.
Speaker: They take everything on as their own fault or because of them, right?
Speaker: It's hard for them to understand that this isn't about me that we try, you know, when we do the inner work, we're like, oh, it's not personal.
Speaker: It is personal to kids.
Speaker: So for me, the advice was, it's okay to say, okay, I really didn't like how I handled that.
Speaker: I'm so sorry.
Speaker: Can I try that again?
Speaker: And whoa, the level of freedom that I have felt when I have done that of not having to be perfect, showing my kids I'm not perfect, and then restarting and then not letting it stop me, but actually showing up in a better way.
Speaker: Oh, it's the best feeling.
Speaker: And I thought the fear was, oh, they're going to lose respect for me or they're going to see me in a different light, but they don't.
Speaker: They have been so forgiving every time I've done that.
Speaker: They're like, of course,
Speaker: go ahead.
Speaker: And it's almost like they're relieved when I take on that responsibility and that accountability.
Speaker: So that's probably my favorite.
Speaker: That repair phase is absolutely huge.
Speaker: And again, it's all about awareness that you knew that you messed up.
Speaker: And yeah, I am so sorry.
Speaker: And treating them as people, you know, they are little people.
Speaker: They're not just your, you know, kids that you could tote around, but they're little people that have all their own feelings.
Speaker: So apologizing and reconnecting and resetting is just, yeah.
Speaker: And I see it too as like taking a burden off their shoulders that I accidentally put on that.
Speaker: With the iceberg moments we talked about earlier, like maybe that was more about my iceberg than it was about this little tiny incident.
Speaker: So I'm.
Speaker: It actually is okay to spill milk.
Speaker: I'm the one who has more going on.
Speaker: So just delete that.
Speaker: Oops, sorry.
Speaker: Okay, the last question is a favorite memory.
Speaker: So if this was a time capsule and your boys got to listen to it in 10 years or 20 years, is there a moment where...
Speaker: The family was just together and it was just the most amazing.
Speaker: And even if it's just the five minutes, because we all know like an Instagram culture, sometimes right after you take the picture, it completely melts down.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's the truth of it.
Speaker: But you were just like, oh, I love being a mom.
Speaker: The four of us are here together.
Speaker: Is there something you can share?
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: It's I have to I'm going to go with the most recent one, which although my husband could not join us,
Speaker: It was, I took, I was able to, with my, my mother and sister and the women in our family, able to take my two boys to Africa and be, so when I was nine, I was taken there, which Africa and being in the wild and being in harmony with everything in its natural state.
Speaker: And then also seeing how other people live in the world.
Speaker: It changed my life when I was nine.
Speaker: So I always made this decision that I'm going to do that.
Speaker: I want to do that for my kids.
Speaker: And it just all unfolded this last summer.
Speaker: And it was the most beautiful.
Speaker: I just was like, just sitting in every moment.
Speaker: And I was so, and then of course they learned different things than I did and they had their own experience, but just me being able to do something like that and help just be in the present moment with them in that way was such a beautiful experience.
Speaker: And
Speaker: My favorite favorite, of course, is when we're all together, but that was the way it unfolded.
Speaker: And it ended up being, it's a good example of how, when I make plans and then those kind of get, you know, that saying, when you make plans, God laughs.
Speaker: And then you, what actually is supposed to unfolds.
Speaker: And if you can stay unattached, I think as a parent and attached to what you think should happen, and then you're open to what is actually happening, it really is a
Speaker: you can be fully present in that moment and it's such a beautiful thing.
Speaker: So I would have to say that that is the highlight.
Speaker: There's so many, but we've called our kids and we lived throughout Asia for a couple of years.
Speaker: And I think it's so interesting that,
Speaker: their takeaways are different than your takeaways, especially when you're in a completely different place, you know, and you're like, Oh, do you remember this time?
Speaker: And it was the best.
Speaker: And they're like, yeah, no, that was not the best, but do you remember this time?
Speaker: And so, yeah, again, they're little people and they're having their own experiences and, and leaving our country or even leaving your country.
Speaker: you know, going camping for the weekend or just like a new perspective of anything in your life can really just open up everything.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That has been the key throughout my, my journey as a mother is, is putting myself in these new experiences, exploring things in a way that,
Speaker: that I wouldn't be doing without them.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, and, and, and having that, like moving locations with my husband and being in these new States when they were little enough, I wanted to keep us together.
Speaker: And I'm like, all right, we're just going to explore every corner of this place.
Speaker: And now we're going to explore this place.
Speaker: And it was, it, they of course ended up teaching me through that.
Speaker: Cause I'm like, this is,
Speaker: how you are present and this is how you experience and then watching that through their eyes and then learning, relearning, because we forget as adults, right?
Speaker: Children are just the most amazing teachers.
Speaker: So that's what you're saying, putting yourself in those places, those little microcosms of adventures doesn't have to be huge.
Speaker: It can be simple.
Speaker: And it's, there's so much to gain from that in so many ways.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So true.
Speaker: Your knowledge is amazing.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: If someone is finding that they'd like to work with you, how could they find you or how do we find you on Instagram?
Speaker: What's the way that we can get in touch?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So my Instagram is at coach Jen Wolf and that's with an E and that's two N's.
Speaker: So J E N N W O L F E.
Speaker: at coach Jen Wolf.
Speaker: And then there's TikTok.
Speaker: If anyone does TikTok, it's same thing at coach Jen Wolf.
Speaker: And then my website is jenniferwolfinc.com.
Speaker: Again, Wolf is with an E. And there's
Speaker: You know, you can apply on there to work with me as far as coaching.
Speaker: We're doing a speaking of Africa and Africa retreat in this coming up this summer that is going to be incredible.
Speaker: A really just immersive experience for eight days to just really.
Speaker: jumpstart the healing in your life or get yourself to the next level, get yourself unstuck, whatever it is you're looking for.
Speaker: And, um, coaching.
Speaker: I also, I do couples, I do individual and then I do groups.
Speaker: So, um, that's, that's awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it'll, I'll be in the show notes.
Speaker: I'll put all the links down there.
Speaker: So it's an easy way to, to find.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker: I really appreciate you so much and all of your wisdom and knowledge.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Such a pleasure.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me.
