Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back queens. queens Welcome back to the female dating strategy. The meanest. female -only podcast on the internet. But we're not mean to everybody. We're just mean to the service.
Speaker: We're not mean enough. Actually, we're not mean enough. they We're going to be a little angry today and our anger is merited. That's right. I'm your host, Rose, and we're joined by Patricia. And I'm so happy we're back. Patricia, thanks for making the time. Yeah, it's good to be back. Of course. Sorry we were a bit choppy. It was a weird...
Speaker: End of the summer, but we're back. We're back to normal. And, you know, when we were talking about what we had to talk about this week or like what were our ideas, Patricia was like. I think we have to talk about Cornell. And I was like, oh, we have to talk about Cornell. ah But.
Speaker: Really, it's just and it's just emblematic of the entire state of patriarchy right now. So I think that's one of the reasons why we feel like it's absolutely vital that we do talk about it, because this isn't a one -off. This is not, you know, an exception to the rule. This is the rule. And I think nothing exemplifies it better than the Cornell 57 case.
Speaker: I think so. Maybe you can recap and why is it 57? Well, originally the... The way it ran in the media was the Cornell 7. was that it had been seven. Cornell fraternity brothers. Fraternities are these like, you know,
Speaker: college affiliated. ah private social clubs. for men only. And um they have a long and sordid history in the United States. and elsewhere because really it's just like anytime you get a men's club, what's going to happen? Shit's going to go down. Oh yeah. So at Cornell, when this when the details first became known, it was called the Cornell Seven because there were seven fraternity brothers that were accused and either sanctioned or expelled.
Speaker: for their participation in a gang rape. But ultimately what came out over time was that there were a total of 57. fraternity brothers on a group chat, like a Snapchat.
Speaker: That all saw that this was happening in real time because there were invites to come down. There were, you know. there was There was back and forth on this group chat about what was happening. And...
Speaker: Not a single one reported to the police. Not a single one made an emergency call. They just... stood idly by. So if this was persecuted as a crime, they would be accomplices.
Speaker: Exactly right. So Jane Doe was an individual who it seems she had a friend. in the fraternity and she was invited over by him.
Speaker: to hang out at the fraternity. When she went over, it sounds like from what I've been able to gather, she was interested in sleeping with her friend. And he proposed a threesome with another frat bro, which apparently...
Speaker: She accepted. And again, this is all hearsay. This is all what I've been able to gather from... um the online discourse. But what ended up happening was they applied her with ketamine, which is a horse tranquilizer. If people don't know what ketamine is, I'll come back to that in a minute because I have extensive experience with taking ketamine as a sober drug addict. But so they applied her with ketamine, kept...
Speaker: kept um giving it to her and... and administering to it to her in ways I don't even know if I want to get into, but I can, um and basically kept her there for seven hours and gang raped her.
Speaker: And she brought this to the campus police afterwards, who, you know, did a very cursory investigation. But they did gather the the group chat logs, ah which were incriminating enough. And there were also...
Speaker: ah testimonies from like the Jane Doe's roommates who testified to her disheveled bloodied. in shock appearance after she came home from this event. And they...
Speaker: Went and brought this to ultimately to the local DA, the local district attorney who said that there was no crime committed due to lack of evidence. And so then what the university did was they had one of these like advisory boards that looked at it and determined that two of the individuals of the seven named.
Speaker: had done enough to be expelled from the university the other five were assigned, were given a slap on the wrist and assigned an essay. to write in order to provide.
Speaker: remediation. And that was the entirety of. the whole thing. And then... I don't even know too... Two of them got expelled. Right. some i heard about it know There is wrongdoing. There was wrongdoing acknowledged, at least on the part of the university. which is important legally down the road. But so then Jane Doe wanted to withdraw from campus because of course she was having to see her rapists.
Speaker: All day, every day when she was going to classes, she asked to withdraw and to have her tuition refunded and the university refused. And so. She finished out the semester in order to get her money's worth, but was...
Speaker: was faced with these rapists every day and of course at that point you know wildfire gossip had spread amongst the campus and she was being treated as a whore right and the front girls were being you know heralded as the alpha dogs on campus. And she then, wait, what does that mean? that The, the circle. What?
Speaker: heralds And they were like praised and like they were the big man on campus. Like, you're so bad. You're running. you're You've got, you know, you've got girls doing gang bangs and orgies. You're so cool. That sort of thing.
Speaker: um And then she withdrew and did not finish her degree. And the rest of the individuals involved all went on to graduate. One is pre -med now. One was pre -med and is now in medical school. I think another one is maybe in law school. We all know where... We all know where these guys go on. ah too Wow.
Speaker: succeed afterwards, right? Because they are in the Supreme Court, they're in the White House, they are in the Senate, they're literally in all seats of government, which is why I think when things happen legally, when something's actually brought to court. so rarely is any sort of punitive punishment actually imposed because...
Speaker: you know A lot of times the judge was... That was his fraternity brother, right? He was a member. So... This is just something that it's become such a horror show because the more that comes out, the worse it gets. And it just really brings to mind. Also the thing with the with a DA, like when you're when you're mentioning a hypothetical judge, we don't need to go to a hypothetical judge because. There is a... real life DA, was it?
Speaker: She went to the police station and The police brought it to the DA. But the DA concluded that there's nothing to, there's no crime. Right. after i love crime That's correct. Even though she said in her statement that was submitted by the campus police, she said something like. I can 100 % guarantee that I was raped.
Speaker: Literally her statement, which by the way, if you don't know this legally. As a witness, your statement counts as evidence. As a witness. as a witness victim as ah As a victim, as a witness, it doesn't matter. If you come forward.
Speaker: With. with any sort of commentary because you were there at the... at the scene of the crime, that is to count as as evidence in a court of law. So it's not just whatever people say Whenever people say he said, she said, no.
Speaker: that's It's not an old, you know, each is saying something else. No, the victim of the crime, who was there? Her statement. counts as evidence in a court of law. It's not some, you know. indiscriminate thing where like oh she can say whatever she wants no in a court of law she's liable to be held in contempt. This is heartbreaking to me, like, too. Right? to put the one and one together that this girl.
Speaker: Went to the police station. She like we know that that's difficult. She went and filed a complaint at the police station. She retold the whole story. And then for the DA to conclude that there is no crime.
Speaker: Like how could there be no crime if she's going to the police and she saying that she was raped? How can you conclude there is no crime? And that is the patriarchal player here exemplified. on steroids.
Speaker: It's really heartbreaking to think about that girl. going through that alone. Yeah, my heart really just breaks for her because I just think like... I can't imagine being 19 or 20.
Speaker: You're exploring your sexuality. you go You go to who you think is your friend's house. He's invited you over. You're supposed to have consensual fun. And in the meantime, he was sending out.
Speaker: on the group chat, like free pussy, come and get it. She's on birth control. So literally come and bust a nut. ha ha ha Oh my God. Uh -huh. And one of the replies on this group chat was, I hope it's not another fatty again.
Speaker: Oh my god. I heard that theyll somebody asked at some point, is the store still open? Exactly. Exactly. And then the other thing that really kind of shocked me even, which just goes to show like as much as I...
Speaker: feel that I've been exposed to depravity. There's still like different levels to it, which I guess I'm glad I don't realize exist. But one thing that really... struck me was that apparently after she had brought the crime to the police.
Speaker: none of the None of the fraternity brothers knew who it could be.
Speaker: What? Exactly. What? but Oh my God. They couldn't identify who it was. Who was it? They couldn't figure it out. Oh my God. Because how many times have they been doing it?
Speaker: Oh my god, that's awful! Exactly. That is such a smoking gun. Exactly. it's It's not a piece of evidence, but... Just that fact is so horrifying. It's horrifying. oh but Oh but who is it?
Speaker: Yeah, some girl is complaining that we gang raped her I... I honestly have no idea who that is because we do that. So much. Yeah, like that's exactly. that's what That's what it is.
Speaker: So it's a method. It's a mess. That was just the only time that they got caught and not even that. Right. It was the only time, you know, criminal charges were were brought against them. and like Five of them had to write an essay, Patricia. So I guess, you know, I guess they learned their lesson. And then to see what the response from the university has been. I mean, because a real fur has broken out. So why has this come to why has this come to everybody's attention now? This actually happened in 2024.
Speaker: Yeah. But now Jane Doe is bringing a civil suit. She is filing a personal suit. by paying for her own attorney. um to bring a suit against the university. And that's how everything, and it was actually broken. The story was broken by a female journalism student at the Cornell University student newspaper.
Speaker: Wow. Mm -hmm. Because the institution... Touch it. And this is what this is basically about, right? It's about how... the institution systematically protects These...
Speaker: male actors. because that's in a way part of its DNA. Patriarchy is part of the these institutions' DNA. and they first want to protect the institution.
Speaker: but also as part of it, these... Patriarchal Norms slash depravities. Like... choose what is correct and erase the rest because like these depravities are the norm.
Speaker: And there is, um hold up a second, because I'm just, there are two there are two sources of media. I love the clicking sound. I know, right? So investigative journalism. I'm sorry, because I was just remembering how there was both a book and A.
Speaker: There is a... book and a DVD or sorry, a documentary. Yes. Okay. so yeah So John Krakauer. uh actually published a book in 2015 called Missoula.
Speaker: Rape and the justice system. in a college town. Uh. And this nonfiction book, quote, investigates a spate. a number of sexual assaults and the handling of rape cases in Missoula, Montana.
Speaker: um which Missoula, Montana is like the University of Montana, Maine State University. Okay. And then there was a documentary that same year called The Hunting Ground.
Speaker: That sounds familiar. aha An American documentary directed by Kirby Dick and produced by Amy Ziering that exposes sexual assault on college campuses and how... School administrators handle or cover up these crimes. It follows the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Speaker: Um, alongside cases at Harvard, Notre Dame, and Florida State University. How does it portray like the incentive structure? for the administrators that are covering it up.
Speaker: Like, it's just... all right It's not that it's... ah it's not that it's um There are a couple things. One... Many of the... The people who are brought as, you know, perpetrators, as rapists to this campus is...
Speaker: attention, they're either Very. They're very... important children of wealthy patrons. Yeah. or And or.
Speaker: They are star athletes. They're untouchable, basically. So they they get a lot of money. because of these young men and they know that they're young men that if they look out for them now they're going to get money from those young men when they go on to have successful careers, which they all do.
Speaker: So that it's both money now and future money. that they are, you know, You know what the horrifying thing about it is? Like these people, these young men. are valuable to the system, therefore they're not.
Speaker: held under They're They're not sanctioned. for their crimes. and in a very beautiful and Terrible. way, they just continue to be.
Speaker: valuable or perceived as valuable to whatever. functions they serve in society later on. And then they continue to. to get away with things, right? That's how it works.
Speaker: You're important, you're rich, you're well -connected. So you do shit and you get away with it. And it just starts off at college. Exactly. Or even before, right? I mean, but this is, but these are training grounds. And one thing that I keep coming back to is like, Is that why it's called training ground?
Speaker: Right. Yes. Oh my God. i' Oh. wow it's it's so painful it's so horrifying and this is what I keep coming back to is like according to Um, like criminal forensics and, you know, like criminals like the the psychology of criminals, you know, they always start small.
Speaker: And they work their way up to the major crimes. So like when they talk about murder, often like time, murderers will... Start out. either torturing or killing animals, um or they torture their younger siblings.
Speaker: Yeah, you always see it in in movies. Yep. how like the the person that you know that's going to be a killer later he's just like Killing an animal. Exactly. what Exactly. They're training. that's They're in training for like the big crime. And so if if you've got a 19 or 20 year old.
Speaker: Who's committing gang rape at that age? What are they going on to do in the rest of their life? Fuck. They're gonna have free coughs. They're going to do human trafficking. on and Or just like the occasional... um like, how do you call it? Misuse of power?
Speaker: Absolutely. Absolutely. Like a casual date rape here, you know, molestation of a teen daughter's friend there. I mean, it's, it's and and you start to see like the ramifications go so.
Speaker: far and wide and deep that we our eyes can't even visualize it but I think when women are always women are now starting to get really angry and they're like You know... How is it that every i know every woman I know has been assaulted or or raped in some way or molested, and yet no man knows a single rapist?
Speaker: oh How do those numbers work? Right. And they're starting to ask the right questions, which is, well, you know how is it that you don't know anything, men? We'll be right back. When Locker Talk tells you everything you need to know, but you still don't know anything when we ask you.
Speaker: How does that work? yeah Well, men talk ah part of being a man, part of masculinity under patriarchy is... showing off for status and for clout, right? Like part of gang rape is...
Speaker: fostering um It's fostering us a bond of brotherhood. We've got each other's back. We're showing off how masculine we are. We're showing off our prowess. We're participating in the degradation of women because that's what we as men do. That's part of these sort of rituals of manhood under patriarchy.
Speaker: And so you've also always heard about locker room talk, right? Like, oh, that's just boys. boys right well if that's the case if men talk about this amongst each other then you can't tell me that all these men who swear they don't know a single rapist don't. No, a single rapist. They will have heard it. Consider it rape. Like one time I was on a...
Speaker: singular date with a guy that knew somebody from like um intellectual echelons of where I'm from. That was accused of... Bad stuff.
Speaker: Bad stuff. And what he had to say, the guy that I was on a date with, he was like, These women just complained. Like they ended up having not such a good time and then they complained.
Speaker: That's how he sees it. He was like really not a guy to do anything with. but to have one drink and go ahead. This reminds me. of But this was like... the way that he understands.
Speaker: a woman's experience because these experiences that we go through. go unpunished for the men that do that. And this has become a system. where...
Speaker: Power. Right. Choo. good and safe experiences. is forfeit. And this is what we're angry about. Our safety is not forfeit. Us being okay.
Speaker: as going to a friend's house and not coming back bloody. is a right that we are. The... that we have. Like... we are entitled to it.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. I think too, and this is something we discussed in a previous in a previous podcast where we talked about this article that came out. um understanding the perspectives and experience of male perpetrators of sexual violence against women, where it actually studied...
Speaker: you know Usually anything about abuse looks at... the stories of of victims. um Rarely do we actually look at the experience of perpetrators and this one actually did that and it was horrifying because if you hold remember that right if you called it something else almost all of the men, you know,
Speaker: They didn't admit, but yes, they acknowledged that these were techniques that they used to get what they wanted. because So the paper at the time, that was in the Freeze, Flight, Fun episode, which also talked about these subjects, but more and like... ah let's say on the lighter side of the spectrum, but if you want, go ahead and listen to that. But the paper, the article that... you're describing, Rose, is um Basically, I was asking...
Speaker: Guys? anonym anonymously What? stuff. did What cunning stuff did you do to get sex? Right. Right. Yep. huh Mm -hmm.
Speaker: was it just like you know asking over and over and over again until you got what you wanted was it you know um You pretending that this was a serious relationship and this was how, you know, your love language needed to be expressed. It had all these different like techniques, right? And substances, right? Alcohol, drugs. But then it's like, indeed, I love how you connected that to what you said about the locker room talking about how. No man knows.
Speaker: uh A rapist. mm -hmm because It's exactly what you were saying. Like, if it's framed as... What did you do?
Speaker: Like what strategies did you employ to get sex? It's a different question then. When did you ever rape somebody and then what did you do to rape them? or to coerce them into sex. I'm not going to.
Speaker: Maybe not every one of those cases was sex, but it is. It's not freely given. like you know If you see that somebody doesn't want to have sex with you and then you go through all of these lengths, manipulations. um give them a lot to drink in order to have sex with them. like It's clear that this is immoral.
Speaker: Exactly. is like I don't know if like you know we can just start by saying This is immoral. I would like to think that nobody that I know would do that Like no but no one of my ex -boyfriends would do that.
Speaker: Because they would never... Get sex like that. Because that's not how you. that's not how you to have sexuality. Right. Anybody. If you're a healthy, grounded person, I would like to believe.
Speaker: I agree. And I've heard many stories from women who are like, yeah, I remember this one time where I was at this event and, you know, I didn't feel well. So I was offered to go up to somebody's bedroom and somebody came in and tried to start something. And one of their friends came in and like kicked them out and brought me water and then just sat by the bed to make sure like nothing else happened to me. Women have these stories, you know, ah they didn't have to. Oh my God. Yeah, they didn't get raped because he wasn't a rapist.
Speaker: um Or they didn't get raped because somebody else was helping them. ex Exactly. their oh Yes, yes, exactly. And like when you're like, um, You know... So when men will often say, and this is something that you hear the cops say all the time, it was like, oh, she wanted it. And then afterwards she regretted it. And so now she's bringing it to us as rape. That's a very common thing for cops to say. And I found a statistic. I can't cite where I read it.
Speaker: Sorry, guys, I'll have to go looking for it. But apparently... Max, there is ah there is a very small percentage of false rape accusations. It's something like 2 % to 3%. Alright. Well, I don't know what is false because that's maybe ambiguous, but I think that... uh that doesn't hold water at all because nobody wants to go to the police even if somebody
Speaker: Even if something was literally stolen from you, Like you would consider not going to the police just because it's a hassle. And if something was done to you physically in a sexual way.
Speaker: I don't think there is any incentive of going and... to the police. exposing yourself. Bearing your... your heart and soul and talking about something so intimate. with the law.
Speaker: Because of anything else but... This was wrong. And I do understand some people are criminals and some women may be criminals and go and... um make false rape accusations. I understand that that happens.
Speaker: in the percentage that you cite it, two or three percent. I accept that. But like... Why would anybody want to do that just out of spite? it's a worst like uncomfortable At least, in the least, it's an uncomfortable experience. Yeah, nobody wants to spend an afternoon talking to a bunch of cops who disbelieve you. But the reason I bring this quote up is because... Nobody wants to spend an afternoon of at the police station. Exactly. The reason I bring...
Speaker: is because... So what statistics have been able to verify is that max two to 4 % are false. Two to four. However, 90%. Of cops.
Speaker: Believe that any and all right accusations. are false. 90%. That is horrifying. Look at the difference. And so this is what I'm saying is like, they have all these things that, well, she wanted it and then she regretted it afterwards or she wanted it and then she felt bad afterwards. So, you know, then she had to like come and accuse this guy. That's what most cops think, which is why women don't report it because they know what happens if you do come forward and report it. You get harassed.
Speaker: You get victimized. You get re -victimized when you're in a very vulnerable place. And we all know that these these these cases don't get prosecuted. in I actually feel that rape is is extra legal.
Speaker: in the United States at the very least, and I would argue worldwide, because how often does rape actually get punished? It doesn't. Which means that technically, it's extra legal. It's permitted under the law.
Speaker: And so. This is what women are starting to really see is how the system is set up so that Rape is... Rape is ah acceptable. Rape is, in fact, even encouraged amongst many men. um And we're starting to see a level of anger that I've been hoping and wishing and praying. I mean, since I became a radical feminist.
Speaker: I have lived, as Andrea Dworkin said, you know in a constant state of like anguish and rage over just how much misogyny is baked into the system. I mean, it's a horrifying realization, especially when your eyes start to like. really get a broad view of what's happening it's a horrible it's a horrifying state of existence But. I wouldn't change it for naivete and ignorance again for the world.
Speaker: But I've been hoping and praying that like women would start to unionize as a gender. And one of the things that anger does. is it galvanizes, it motivates, it energizes, it breaks people free from apathy. And I hate that that's where we have to get to actually start to like see maybe some change, but I don't see how else we make changes.
Speaker: I hear y 'all. I hear you because maybe like if this hasn't come forward and You know, it's only from two years ago. It's like from now. Mm -hmm. Just thinking about... That girl going to the police station and being turned back home. Like, basically everybody is... gaslighting her.
Speaker: and telling her that nothing wrong happened to her. And that happened two years ago. That was, that is like. from now. Yeah. and Hearing that is really, really troubling. and kind of sheds light on where we are right now. So,
Speaker: Yeah, I think the anger is merited and basically... it's a moment of If we thought that it's not that bad, we were wrong. Yes. And in fact, what I've been seeing is i don't I don't have this app, but I've been seeing like some YouTube clips of... Apparently, women on maybe Instagram or TikTok are recording and posting reels of I Am Old. Jane Doe.
Speaker: And these are... ancient stories of women who Jesus, I got shivers. Right. i mean like ah grandmothers and great aunts and you know women in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.
Speaker: Finally talking about something that they never got. Yeah. And that's the thing. hopeful The scope is far beyond what our minds could ever grasp, which is why, again, I'm like, oh, you don't know a single rapist, huh? You don't know a single guy who like always closes the deal on every date. You think he's that irresistible? And this is what gets me is like.
Speaker: I think about this 19 or 20 or 21 -year -old young woman at Cornell, ah you know, at this Ivy League university who has got this bright future. She's going to graduate with a degree from a prestigious university. You know, she's a hard worker. She wouldn't be there if she if she wasn't.
Speaker: and maybe exploring her sexuality and being a little adventurous, being a little, you know, outrageous for the first time, but there is no way. There is no physical way a woman is going to want to have sex with seven, 10, 50. We don't even know how many ultimately because she was she was paralyzed and incapacitated for most of it. But she was but she was there for seven hours.
Speaker: so There is no way. that a young woman in With limited... is going to want to have... that many men i don't know maybe somebody would like to have sex with seven men i don't know i don't think so but in any ways if they did they wouldn't come back bloody and then go and complain about it and file complaints with like it's not about us in deciding whether she wanted it or not She went and complained.
Speaker: Like. the The paradigm where... Somebody who's wearing a uniform, needs to think about whether this girl wanted to have sex with seven men and then said she didn't want to. Like, that's fucked up.
Speaker: If she's going and complaining and she says... I didn't want this. I came back home with. Bleeding? Isn't - like that's - I'm just really upset.
Speaker: I know, it's so upsetting. And like, here's the thing about ketamine. So as I mentioned, I have some experience with it. I did it a lot in college, actually. um It is a horse tranquilizer. It is designed to paralyze and immobilize. horses.
Speaker: Literal fucking... One ton animals. What did this woman weigh? Maybe 130, maybe 150. It also... Ketamine is a dissociative substance, and what it does is...
Speaker: I would say it takes us back from um from our mental structures, meaning like... If you're thinking, and you take a little bit of ketamine. you're not going to be thinking that much but if you take more and more ketamine You grow.
Speaker: So... far away. from your mental structures that you're in nothing Nothing is left. there's It's not a black space. of nothing. There is an a void of anything, and people nickname that K -hole.
Speaker: And some people... do that voluntarily, some people do that unvoluntarily. but I can. pretty much guess that if she was on a lot of K for a long time.
Speaker: She was not there. She was in a K -hole the whole time. Meaning, If somebody is experiencing a K -hole, they cannot talk. they cannot do stuff and it's like you're in a cage like again some people do that for fun You're dead weight. You can't move. You can't do anything. And sometimes it it creates a lot of panic for people because they don't like if it's done recreationally and then people accidentally end up in a K -hole.
Speaker: I'm trying to explain it as a phenomenon. This is why I'm using this example. If you are in, if somebody is in a K -hole, and they didn't mean to get there, it can make them panic because... you didn't Plan.
Speaker: to not be able to move or speak. So the best thing to do. I'm talking recreationally. is to relax. However, now that I've explained it as a phenomenon, like the phenomenon itself,
Speaker: in itself. maybe it's not bad because some people Not me, but some people do it for fun. But if that's done to you, And you also mentioned that the K was administered in a um in a way that is unorthodox? Were they putting it in were they putting it in her butthole?
Speaker: Apparently they were putting it on their dicks. On their own. Oh, what? Oh. Mm -hmm. I'm not sure that's good proof. And... sure that's good for the the vaginal walls or anything.
Speaker: Right. Oh! Exactly. Exactly. It gets worse and worse. The more you look at it, it's just like, nobody would have agreed to this. Nobody. How can you look at this young woman and be like, she totally has. This is not okay. They weren't.
Speaker: Giving her ketamine. They were putting ketamine... in her. Right. She couldn't even say if she wanted. Yeah, but they were drugging her. You know, sometimes when people say they were drugging her, it makes it sound like.
Speaker: They were giving her another can of beer or they were giving her another bump and she took it. yeah They were putting the ketamine in her body and obviously it gets soaked in wherever you put it. I was mentioning the butthole because people do it sometimes recreationally. People do all kinds of drugs recreationally through the butthole, including ketamine, so that's what I thought.
Speaker: But this is not like... Nope. when when when When people say... She was drugged? Yeah. There's like an ambiguity around how. Passive, that is. But this is... like,
Speaker: She was... drugged like the the use of the of the passive term here. is 100 % correct if they were putting it on their dicks and then fucking her. yeah She had no say in how much ketamine she was on.
Speaker: And I bet your fucking ass. She was in a care home, meaning... She can't speak. She can't like she's literally in a cage that is her body while she's getting fucked by multiple guys that she didn't choose. This is...
Speaker: Fucking awful. And the cherry on the shit, on the on the shit of ice, on the ice of shit. is that
Speaker: There's actually one more detail that really horrified me that I just read recently. Oh, no, wait, let me take a breath. Because I'm just thinking about how they they didn't know who it was. I'm still there. Yeah. After several hours, apparently, you know, some, I don't know if it was some women had gone, they were worried about, they saw all of these and these were witness statements apparently that have come out.
Speaker: There were like two girls that were worried because so many men kept coming in and out of this room and they knew she was in there. And so they went to the... The president, the fraternity president. And they were like, we're really worried about this girl. Like she's been in there a long time and so many men are coming in and out. Can you go make sure she's okay? And so like the fraternity president and his second in command went into the room and were like, okay, okay, break it up.
Speaker: They took her to their room. And then she was there for another three or four hours. Doing what? Well... We don't know.
Speaker: But... They didn't bring her home.
Speaker: They didn't take her to the hospital. or they they weren't Wait, who's to say they weren't raping her in his room? I dunno. We don't know. but Were they questioned? ah That I don't know.
Speaker: That's as far as I... That's as far as I've heard so far. Um, This is so sad It is because like, and the only reason they were able to figure that out was because these girls reported like they had gone around 3 .30.
Speaker: Or so, I think her night started around like 11 or. or midnight at the front house. And so these girls went around like 3, 3 .30 to talk to the fraternity president. But.
Speaker: And so that's when apparently they... quote unquote broke they were just They were just hanging out there. Right. The girls were just... They were just happened to be there. Yes. And then the only reason we know that it was broken up.
Speaker: So what we only know is... hold up a second. So what we know is at like 3 30 or so the fraternity president went and quote unquote broke it up but she still didn't get home until seven. 25 am
Speaker: Yeah, they didn't take her home. We don't know what happened after that. I can't I'm sure the same thing i hope not but i i know i know but she doesn't she doesn't even know how many it was and that's what she says she could only name seven that's that's only what she was able to like consciously register.
Speaker: Oh my god. I think he gets home. Um. i i don't I think at that point, like the drugs had finally worn off and she was able, she walked home. And that's why her roommates have like this account of her stumbling in and just like.
Speaker: being disheveled and bloodied and like... in a state of shock and just like you know describing what had happened and hadn't quite realized yet that it was gang rape i mean your brain does a lot to protect you with these sorts of things.
Speaker: and i think it's It's a horrible experience and I'm sure like even when I was hearing about it for the first time. There is some incentive structure and in a person's psyche. that wants to normalize it so that you can Just continue your life.
Speaker: Because what I heard when I was hearing the the recap about it. is that With time, she was tormented more and more by this experience. which doesn't make sense to me because like you know It's something really traumatic. And what happens, like what trauma does is like.
Speaker: It rips apart. our perception of what life is. what can and cannot happen. It just pures us through that. And that's really hard to accept. So it's better to say like, I don't know. It was a really weird night. I do understand why Somebody would try to say that to themselves.
Speaker: Absolutely. And I mean, they they've shown this in psychology. This is like a known phenomenon. This isn't anything we haven't heard before. But all I can think of is, again, like... At that age, I wouldn't have even known.
Speaker: What? to call that. Because I would have no cream of butter. Oh, my God. When I was 19, I had no... adapt. I could not adapt to anything. i did not like i was very weak as a person like how much can you do when you're 19. or 20.
Speaker: Right. Right. they' just You have no frame of reference. You don't even have the language. And I think that's what her, when they... or talking to her roommates. That's kind of what her roommates were saying was like, it was only when she was recollecting and like piecing bits back together as like things came to her memory in the days after.
Speaker: that she started to understand that something seriously wrong had happened. And that makes sense to me because I think my brain would not want me to accept that like you know I had been passed around like like candy.
Speaker: Okay. And that not a single... Not a single man. And that entire situation stepped in and did anything. And in fact, the only reason she ever had... is excuse for body. The only reason she had any evidence to go on was because one frat brother.
Speaker: Yeah. had a friend, a girl. who was a friend. And apparently he had her with her phone take a picture of the Snapchat thread.
Speaker: And that's why we've seen any of the evidence is because he apparently, so there was like one guy who was like, yeah, this wasn't okay, but he didn't take pictures on his own phone. He made sure he couldn't be traced back to him.
Speaker: He had his friend do it for him. Did she actually take... pictures of his phone screen. is that Yes. because Because if you screenshot these kinds of like hidden apps.
Speaker: There's a trace of that. Exactly. And he didn't want to break the... Whatever, America. Great to see that And so I guess like, that's what gets me is like of all the 50, like not, you could have just called the cops, man. You could have, I mean like. ah But of course, you would then get exiled and punished.
Speaker: And all of the advantages of being a fraternity brother would then be. not only removed, but... You would be... you would be punished for the rest of your life by these other brothers. for having done the right thing.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. to me, it's just such it's a tragic story. A woman's life, her family, her friends, nothing will ever be the same for her. um And, and hopefully, I don't know, but like we have to, this has to, something has to change. I mean, I guess what I'm really starting to see is that universities are basically just
Speaker: trust funds at this point. They're basically just small economies. They're not there to educate. They're there to make money. And I guess a part of me really wanted to hold on to like. you know higher education as a bastion of of intellect and of knowledge and you know where the free market of ideas uh, like, uh, uh,
Speaker: birthplace like a ah fortress. or a location like a library just like it's something that's fortified that's protected um Dead. filter on something Almost sacred.
Speaker: Well, maybe it still is, but it's convoluted with... ah with a of something a lot. Bigger. and a lot more toxic. That is this.
Speaker: patriarchal. really It's not even like this is. This is criminal. This is criminal activity. under the guise of quote unquote. Fun.
Speaker: Nothing is fun about this. Like ah a person had... their body used up. in a way that they could not have a say in. That's it. Terrible thing. to do to anybody And it seems to me that on a rudimentary level, this is all about incentives and repercussions. what we talked about in the beginning about how This is perpetrated by... guys who are
Speaker: um either have a really big value assigned to them because of their families or because of their athletic activity. So there's... an incentive for the institution to keep them there's like the repercussions don't happen because there is an incentive to keep them.
Speaker: and then for the guys themselves they get this kind of like social um Credits? for supplying the group with with girls. Like if you're saying that when this girl came forward and and filed a complaint, they didn't know. who it was that means they do it all the time that means that there is a system in place by which Guys, bring the -
Speaker: female friends over to the frat house they get a little boozy They get a little sexy. and then they're trying to like drive the situation into this into this position where the girl is kind of like knocked out and then all of the guys are coming and fucking her which is Fucking criminal.
Speaker: This is criminal activity, but then I imagine that the guys who do that have a social incentive as well as a sexual incentive because then they get credit. between the guys, right? Because they're the ones then brought the chick.
Speaker: Right. and what are the and as we said like the repercussion doesn't have an interest. like If you want to, if you know, like let's say some guy in the fraternity knows about this and he feels in his heart that that it is wrong.
Speaker: But... he's not going to ah drive repercussions for this action because He's going to get kicked out. right he's going to lose his social network. He's going to have bad. bad rumors flying about him that he is i don't know not a guy's guy or he's a i don't know what what they're gonna say about him but There's no social incentive for him to do that. and they're even like stuff like how to say that It's not even that there is no incentive. there's um Hope you out.
Speaker: It's actively punished. Yeah, it's punished. Exactly. Thank you. uh -huh so that's I think it's... It's very... simple. Like people do what they can get away with. it And not to say that if a guy doesn't treat you well or it doesn't take you on a date it's the same as rape or anything like that. But what I mean it's to say is like,
Speaker: Exactly like we and everybody that's giving David. a Dating advice says. A guy is doing, like, people do as little as they can get away with. yes If the guy can get away with doing very little and still...
Speaker: You are. happy to be with him happy to spend time with him you're okay with getting crumbs That's what he will do. We always succumb to the least possible effort to get the max result.
Speaker: We do that at work. we do that at school we do that i don't know if for their friendships because that's a bit different but basically you get what i'm saying And it seems to me... that for these institutions if we're talking about this as a system because it is a system like the documentary that you mentioned the book that you mentioned this is now coming out All of this shows that this is not a singular phenomenon. It's a system that we sometimes see the cracks in.
Speaker: And that means that the incentives And the repercussions are all fucked up. and what these institutions need to know. is... It's not that... They're going to lose.
Speaker: some money. or some clout if they lose this athlete they're gonna have people's wrath upon them and they're gonna lose funding. OOF they will have people raping women on their campuses. I think that's a... That's what where the incentive structure should go to.
Speaker: That's what I hope we can start to see some change in. Yes, exactly right. Exactly right. Well how do we make that happen? well that's i think that i don't have I don't have millions of dollars that I'm contributing to universities. um um I know I've seen some of the the alumni ah who had. deeded you know their future inheritances over to campus have been...
Speaker: communicating with the president and saying, unless X, Y, and Z are done, I have directed my attorneys to remove this you know legacy. inheritance from your endowment, and I am withdrawing further support, and I'm contacting other alumni to withdraw support. I mean, it's it's it's kind of the same idea around... um um the What is it? bd BDS? BDS.
Speaker: I don't know if BDS is effective but... Yeah, money talks. money talks and so that's that's what people are doing right now i think we have to continue to dream up alternate ways of also finding as far as i'm concerned and i mentioned this to you and this is going to be my last thing that i say on this topic because i can only talk about i can only stomach this for so long As far as I'm concerned, At this point in history,
Speaker: What? What history has shown me is that we need to execute rapists. I don't think there's any other recourse. I don't know how else we have enough because clearly we're we're not doing anything to punish them.
Speaker: So if we're going to punish them, let's make it count. okay one less rapist in the world is a i just saw a t -shirt that a protester had worded that had worn at a Cornell protest. And it said, dead men don't rape.
Speaker: And I was like, yes, that's where I'm at now. The the like the pacifist hippie in me has reached a point of no return when it comes to sexual violence. and men. And. i'm As far as I'm concerned,
Speaker: put all rapists to the death. The end. I don't know. Isn't it a good idea to just start putting them in jail? Like to actually... Like there is a law in place. that protects rape victims. Isn't it a good idea to start acting in the in the lines of the law and putting people away.
Speaker: I would love that, but clearly that has never happened. So when is it going to start happening? I don't know, but what... pri told me is I think it's a really good idea for that to start happening now. I mean, it's either that or put him to death. These are your two options. So pick your poison, but like enough is enough. That's what I think. Yeah, but they need to be persecuted to to be administered the penalty. No, it's not going to happen. like It's not going to happen spontaneously.
Speaker: Mm hmm. I really wonder what we can do. I don't know. use i i If I have ideas, I can't talk about them now because I am. at my limit with having this discussion i can only talk about this for so long That's fair, you also said that. I thought this was a really important topic to discuss today. I was absolutely dreading it and I'm glad we have had a good discussion. And again. Yeah.
Speaker: Come and write in our comments. This is difficult. We want you to be involved. I mean, this is an ongoing conversation that we we have to band together as women. We have to we have to unionize and we have to find new ways of going forward.
Speaker: So talk about it in the comments. Come, let's have a discussion. Let's keep this going. Let's fight for justice. We deserve it. And so do our sisters. Yeah. Thanks for listening in. This is an important topic, albeit difficult to talk about.
Speaker: mm -hmm And we'll talk to you next time. Thank you, Queens. Love you, Queens. they say scroll Do better! Don't fucking rape it's against the law and it's immoral See you next time.
