Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back, queens. Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest only female website on the internet, supposedly, or so they say. I think that was back in like 2009, so it's clearly a different landscape today. I'm your host, Rose. And today, before I introduce our special guest host, I wanted to have a little note, um a little request from the UK community.
Speaker: media channel that is recording fds as part of their four-part documentary series. So what they requested was, and some of you have already responded, we've reached out to you. Thank you so much for your interest. Now, before next week, before next Tuesday, they've asked for our listeners to call in um with an MP4 recording or even a written out note if you prefer, but voice recordings are preferred. They'd love it if you'd call in with one of your own stories about roast-a-scroat or your last experience with a low-value man. um This is, again, all part of their four-part series on what it's like to be a woman in the era of the internet. And one of the four episodes will be...
Speaker: literally built up around the female dating strategy. So I'm really excited about this. I think it's a really interesting opportunity to get out our message on a broader platform.
Speaker: um And so if you think you'd like to contribute and you have something interesting to say, you can reach out to us at contact at thefemaledatingstrategy.com. That's our email address. Again, it's contact at thefemaledatingstrategy.com. And they would really appreciate it if by next Tuesday, you could submit an MP4 with one of your stories.
Speaker: um If you have any questions, also feel free to reach out to us at that same email address. I'll be keeping an eye on it more closely over the weekend. um And we look forward to all of your contributions, queens. Thank you so much. Okay, but now I'm especially excited because today we have our first, but certainly not our last guest host, Anne-Sophie. Anne-Sophie, welcome.
Speaker: Hi, everyone. everyone Hello. Welcome. Thank you for welcoming me. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited that you could make the time. I'm so so glad you wanted to participate. what What made you reach out to us when we when we put out that call?
Speaker: I'm a huge fan of FDS. You know, I've been following the community since 2019. I've been listening to all of the podcast episodes. I love you guys.
Speaker: So here I am. Yay! And we love you, Sophie! For real. Like, if that's like OG, because that's about what I, I think i did you actually discovered it before I did, because it was during COVID that I actually discovered Reddit. And then...
Speaker: FDS, but that was 2020. So you had already found it right in its in its nascent stage in 2019. Oh my gosh. Do you feel like it's been, oh tell us about like, okay, you discovered it in 2019. Would you walk us through before we get to today's episode topic?
Speaker: Will you just walk us through a little bit about how you came to discover it and what it's what it's meant for your own life? Absolutely. So actually, it was when I came back from my ah first year abroad and I had like a huge six months long crush on a guy. And before that, I had like a ah a short string of relationships with some like stupid guys. Yeah. and Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. And then I came home to my home country and i was like, oh, my God, I don't understand. Why do I choose these guys? And I was like, i need some guidance because I'm so lost. I don't understand. And also a lot of people are advising me.
Speaker: about how to go about with these relationships. But the advice that I i receive is so bad, like it's really bad. so I need an advice. and i And I remember typing on the Internet, I need relationship guidance or something like that. Yeah. And then i see a Reddit thread.
Speaker: And it was FDS. And it was that at first I was a little bit scared. So i was like, wow, it seems like intense. But a few months later, i was on one of my favorite like community. It was an old community on LiveJournal called Oh No, They Didn't.
Speaker: And they were they were actually talking more and more about FDS. They were like, oh my God, there's this new community giving advice, like feminist advice about dating. And i was like, okay, I need to go back on that. And that's how I started reading the Reddit.
Speaker: Oh, my gosh. this I love hearing about the LiveJournal community. I feel like in many ways, I feel like the younger the younger, the youth of today don't understand like how much wilder and more loose the Internet used to be. Like there were all these little communities and all these little websites that I mean, even just like MySpace, you know, now. Sure. Like there, it was just kind of a more lawless place, but it was also a lot more fluid as far as being able to find, you know, these little pockets of people that were your people.
Speaker: Oh, so live journal to FDS. And then what I agree with you when I first, when I first discovered it, and I'm somebody who, I don't know if you've ever heard my little story about how I was like very much a reluctant feminist. Like I was a pick me feminist for a very long time, or as FDS calls them, a neoliberal feminist. Yeah. A liberal feminist, right? And it's like, it's not feminism at all because you're still so male-centered and this, that, and the other. And so when I first discovered FDS, I also was taken aback. I was like, oh, this seems really radical. This seems like almost militant and la, la, la, la. la But then the more i
Speaker: sort of avoided applying FDS to my dating life, but still dated and still read the website, the more I started to see like the incongruence of, of these really stupid ideals around, you know, just communicate and, you know, um Like promiscuity means you're a liberated woman. And like, if you're fine with porn, that just means you're a modern woman. And i was like, I don't really agree with any of this and it's not going well for me. So maybe I need to you know, you know, they always say like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. And so I was like, let's just try FDS. I've been reading about it. It sounds interesting. Maybe it sounds a little radical for me, but like, what do I know? You know, it's sort of like applying almost like a scientist's, um, and a scientific method. Yeah. Yeah, it was an experiment. Yeah. Like, but the laboratory was my own life. um And it's really been interesting to see and to hear from others too, how, how their lives changed when they discovered it. Since then on your dating journey has like, how has it been for you since you've begun to integrate those ideals?
Speaker: Honestly, I feel like it changed my mind, my life. yeah I feel like it kind of transformed my life because to be honest with you, I've always been a little bit critical of liberal feminism, I guess, but I didn't know how to articulate it.
Speaker: Like, yeah I was very critical of the hookup culture, even when I was a teenager, even when I was like a young adult. I was very critical of the hookup culture. But then actually my year abroad, that's when I kind of fall into that trap of hooking up because I kept receiving those messages like on the media, movies, TV shows, you know. And yeah and then i and and then I saw the damage it it did to my mental health and to my image, to the image that I had of myself. So finding FDS was really like, ah how can I say that? It really empowered me. Like, it really made me rethink about my original criticism, you know, of of the modern ah dating world and the hookup culture. And I was like, oh, actually, it was my first intuition when I was a teenager, when I was a young adult. I already had those tools and now I'm finding a voice, you know. So yeah it's been amazing for sure. And it has...
Speaker: Well, I've been single for a very long time, but it really has helped me navigate that area of my life in a more empowered empowered way. and it's and it just made me stronger about my opinion, about my intuition. So, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, that makes me so – I feel – hear but so much of my own story in in what you're saying because you're right. That sort of – that was how I felt when I was growing up. And this was separate from like my own religious Christian family. I had my – you know, I've always been very romantic and like very – very affectionate, but I also was a lot more selective in who I would give it to. And the whole hookup culture never really appealed to me. But like you said, with all of media and culture telling me like, no it's fine. It's in fact, it's empowering and it's liberating and this, that and the other, you know, I really started to doubt myself and which actually was very destructive to my own sense of, um,
Speaker: judgment, my in my own judgment in things. I had had my own judgment, but I was told that it was wrong and I should do this other thing. And then I did this other thing and I was like, but now I'm really kind of miserable and this is even worse than I had feared. And so FDS kind of liberated me to go back to not just ah living how I always felt and intuited that I should be living, but it actually gave me, it gave me the words and the sort of ideological framework to understand why I had felt that way to begin with Yeah, I get you.
Speaker: Right. And so often if we don't have the words, if we can't name things, we can't really grasp what they what they are and what they mean. And so this is one thing, i right? Like having a language articulate what we I already felt and knew to be true, but couldn't actually speak. That has been a real game changer for me personally.
Speaker: Same, same. I mean, all of the high value men, low value men, high value women. I mean, ah pump and dump, for example, like, yeah, like all of these expressions. And, you know, it captures something, for example, pump and dump. It really captures how... The, you know, the soulless kind of way some men decide to pursue relationship with women. yeah And i mean, it it gives like a voice to our feelings, you know.
Speaker: Exactly. Yes, exactly right. And, you know, I think it's interesting to that you mentioned the Pump and Dubs specifically because that, I remember how like, um how viscerally I felt that the first time I read that because I was like, that's exactly what's happening. It's like, it's like a factory floor, you know, sort of like, it almost made me think about um Pink Floyd's The Wall and m how much, so much it gets...
Speaker: put through a factory and manufactured and sanitized and made completely, um completely identical to everything else without its own soul. Right. Yeah. And how abhorrent I thought that was when I first saw it in the wall, but then I never really had connected it to modern dating practices. Yeah.
Speaker: Hmm. Yeah. And now too, I don't know if you've been following this. I haven't been following it too closely, but um I'm sure you're familiar with the Tate brothers, Andrew Tate.
Speaker: um Right. And so right now they are on trial for, right. I think it's for trafficking charges. And what's really interesting is that their lawyers defense of them is that it's all,
Speaker: a front. It's all just a performance and it's just a character. I've i've read, I've read, yeah, about the car. Yeah, everything's rented, right? Everything is sponsored. Everything is rented. They don't own anything. um The Bugatti and the Villas and the this and that, it's all it's all on loan or it's all sponsored by, you know, these companies that want to get their ads in. um But technically it's, it's a performance. It's performance art is what their lawyer is arguing. And I think that's so telling that like the, these men that are, you know, the heroes of the manosphere and of basically the pump and dump ah protocol are just, they're just scam artists and they're admitting it in the court of law
Speaker: ooho And just about that, I just want to say something that I think is really important. I actually work with teenagers who listen to Andrew Tate, like straight and all of the manosphere.
Speaker: yeah If you knew how much of an influence ah the society has people, on how much these teenagers ah listen and follow their guidance, because as soon as Andrew Tate was arrested and, you know,
Speaker: people were mocking their followers, you know, online and saying like they're really dumb. As soon as it happened, I saw the teenagers I work with ah change, like their minds about Andrew Tate. And actually it it really, um how can I say, like it really marks the image of Andrew Tate, the way people react and the way the society treat them yeah really influenced the teenagers, you know.
Speaker: Oh my gosh. Oh man. I feel like social media has been like the the worst infectious disease of the mind of our youth that we could never have imagined how bad it is, you know, because they don't they don't have the critical skills to discern. They don't have a framework to understand what's true and what's false. And right. Cause they're just looking at everybody else's reaction. If you have somebody who has, you know, a hundred million followers, well, they're, they must have something that they're saying that's right.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. You know, um that's i imagine that's how their mind works. and And I my mind would have worked like that, too. in fact, it did. And that's why I thought liberal feminism was the appropriate feminism for the longest time. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. So you've got up close and personal.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, I'm so... But do they still... you're in a position of authority. Do they demonstrate respect to you? Are they at least still willing to converse with you? Yeah, usually don't don't have any...
Speaker: I mean, I don't have so much issues, you know, professionals who work with children and teenagers, they don't have issues with children and teenagers. um When you know the way to work with them, usually it's fine.
Speaker: It's more like ah how the school reacts or don't react. And that's where it's more difficult to to work with. ah But yeah. ah But yeah, I've heard a lot of things about, you know, manosphere and entertain. But it's crazy how influential the society can be about shutting down those ideologies.
Speaker: uhah But you have to be willing to say it face to face, right? Like, I think that's another part of it is that if they have an adult that they respect or yeah who's part of their immediate society, who who openly repudiates, etc., that has a real impact, right? Because it's actual...
Speaker: it's an actual human being in front of them that they know and that they can listen to without, I guess, the echo chamber being involved. But you know what, to me, based on what I've observed, close, you know, yeah to me, it's more how, for example, like a judge decides to ah ah like jail, put him in jail, put Andrew Tate in jail and yeah decides that, oh, it's been, it's enough. We have enough to charge him. This is going to impact way more than any adults around the teenagers. That's my personal my my experience. yeah
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's going to validate the adults, you know, um ah perspectives, but it's going to to actually influence more than ah than the the adults that surround the teenagers.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Man, that i'm I'm both heartened and dismayed because you know right now I'm in the U.S. and it's basically it's increasingly lawless here. So many of the laws that have been established up to the highest court of the land are being repealed or ignored or tossed out. And you know a part of me has just been so heartbroken because it's like...
Speaker: You know, i count on the laws of the land not being immutable, but I count on the laws of the land being subject to a certain rigor and a process of um overturning or altering laws as opposed to just like being flagrantly flouted ah by those in positions of authority. Like it's so heartbreaking to me as an adult to see like,
Speaker: And of course, this is also partly, you know, being a white woman from the particular class structure that I'm from, you know, yeah, the law has worked a certain way for my kind for so long. If I were black or brown, it'd be a different experience. um So in many ways, I guess ah maybe like sort of the blinders of naivete are coming off.
Speaker: um I'm sure disenfranchised communities would be saying like, we've been saying this for a very long time and I've been paying attention, but I've never seen it on such a broad scale. And so to hear you say like a judge and a jury saying about this is more impactful than you know a principal or a teacher or even an uncle saying something. I think there's a real merit to that. And that also concerns me. But in any case, thank you for sharing you that. I'm really excited because today you had a suggestion for a topic and I'm going to hand this over to you so you can explain it to our listeners and then we're going to get into it. So are you prepared to tell us about Summer House and Sophie?
Speaker: I'm not prepared, but I'll do my best. It's a little bit complicated. Yeah. I'm listening. Listeners, this is the first time I'm, when she sent us this email with a suggestion, I thought it was a fantastic suggestion, not because I know about it, but because I don't.
Speaker: But I'm aware that that reality shows, reality dating shows are extremely popular. They're some of the most watched shows across the globe, particularly and principally by women. And this was a point I was going to make in the pre-show, Anne-Sophie, but now that we're talking, I'm going to say it. I find it interesting that the top two genres of shows that women watch are are reality dating shows or reality shows in general and true crime.
Speaker: And i don't I don't think it's coincidence. i think these are two I think these are two sides of the same coin. And so that's why I thought it would be such an I thought it would be such a good topic of discussion because I'm sure our listeners are either listening to one or the other. And so I thought, what a fantastic topic for us to discuss, especially because you had some really salient points about specific individuals. So I'm learning in real time as I'm listening, but I have been doing a lot of reading on think pieces around Love Island and The Real Housewives and just trying to understand how
Speaker: how they're mirrors to our contemporary culture and how they can help us understand some of these dynamics that are operating, you know, in every echelon of society. So with that, I hand it over to you, Aunt Sophie.
Speaker: Okay. So yeah. your best. Just do your best. I'll do my best. Okay. Yeah, so I wanted to talk about um so a ah TV show called Summer House. So actually, I didn't know much about it, um but this TV show, the concept is very simple. um So apparently, I'm not American, but apparently a lot of New Yorkers like to go to summer houses.
Speaker: ah I think it's the Hamptons. Hamptons. Hamptons. That's right. yep That's right. So during July, like fourth of July or during vacation or during the summer, like they work in the city and then they go to their summer house in the weekends.
Speaker: And the show is very simple. It's just that. So a group of friends, actual friends, they knew each other before the show. They go to the summer through their summer house every summer. And the reality TV is about ah recording their love stories and their arguments and everything that happens. So this show has been on for 10 years.
Speaker: And yeah, and at first, you know, I'm a woman of color um and the first few seasons there were no people of color. in the cast but until season four.
Speaker: ah For the first time, there was a black woman called Ciara Miller as a regular cast member. She's very beautiful. She's tall. She looks like a model. She's also a nurse and she was a nurse during the pandemic. She was 24.
Speaker: twenty four Oh, wow. Yeah. And when she came on the show, she was like, i need a break. from the hospital because it's it was really, really tough ah during the pandemic. And so she wanted to start a new career or start something on TV.
Speaker: ah And yeah, and Ciara, she became ah like a fan favorite. ah quickly because she's ah very, very funny. She loves having a... I mean, she she has like a lot of attention onto her because she's very beautiful. She's very sunny and she's very charming and she's extremely funny. And so, of course, she she attracted the attention of so certain cast members. Well, they're all white, so some white guys. And there were a lot of discussions about like interracial dating ah because she was involved with these white guys in a very white show, let's say. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So, for example, there was one story with a guy from a different show from the same channel. And this guy, he tried to play her. he was like two timing her with one of her castmates. And yeah, and it it was kind of like he was kind of love bombing her, basically. But the way it went about was very interesting. And that's why I wanted you to talk about that.
Speaker: because she seems to have a tendency to like getting close to the guys in a very friend buddy way. Like she's, she, she's, she gets very close, like very jokey. She loves joking with those guys. And then at some point it's very like ambiguous. Like we don't know, will they, won't they, you know? And, but the guy is like, well, I'm not sure. i'm not sure that, uh,
Speaker: that's what I want, but I really, really like you. And then he shows her a lot of attention and he makes her think she's very, very important. And then the show ends and then feels like start to unravel. And at the end, he was actually truly a player.
Speaker: Oh, this is so juicy. Oh my God. No wonder if people watch this. it sounds delicious. It sounds like a soap opera. Yeah, but that's because they are actually friends in real life. Like they've, they've, I mean, most of the cast members have known each other for like 15 years.
Speaker: so So it's really very interesting. And Ciara was like the new girl and also, yeah, ah very fresh. um and And she was involved with these guys who are very, i think the cast members in in general were were very wealthy. So from a more wealthy background, a certain type of, I don't know.
Speaker: ah class, I would say. And yeah, they treated her a little bit like, a ah you know, like a muse or something, like a Jezebel. So actually the first guy I just talked about, he, at some point he said, he tells her, oh, you're like a Jezebel in one of the...
Speaker: Yeah, in one of the episodes, that's how he flirts with her. Oh my go gosh, that is... oh And this guy comes from the South, so he's like a kind of stereotype, you know, and he says that.
Speaker: And Ciara, she doesn't react much during that scene, but a lot of people commented online. Anyway... So fast forward to like two or three years later, um another guy comes into play. He's a new cast member. His name is West Wilson.
Speaker: And this guy is from ah from like, ah I don't know, like the middle part of America. Okay. Yeah. And he he has a lot of black friends and he's very cool. He works in New York. He works in the sports ah journalism, you know, industry. So Ciara is attractive to him. He's very jokey. He is a little bit different from other guys because, ah like, he's a little bit heavier, let's say. So people are like, yeah, he's a different addition, you know.
Speaker: yeah compared to the other reality TV stars. And ah during the the season, he's already onto Ciara. He's like, yeah, I'm into her. Like, he's he's trying to kind of, ah like, gatekeep her or mate guard her. And the same thing happens.
Speaker: as like the other relationship where she gets really, really close. They are like best friends. It's very flirty. But at the end of the season, he's like, yeah, I really, really like you. You're you're amazing. ah But we'll see.
Speaker: We'll see. What's there to see about West West? Yeah. And after the season ends, she says that the dude just basically like ghosts her. Like at first he invites her to his family wedding parties and she she meets his parents and stuff.
Speaker: So it's outside of filming, right? Outside of recording. But by the time the new season, ah but by the by the time the season they filmed is broadcasted, he dumps her.
Speaker: Yeah. And he goes, he was actually interviewed by the Times Magazine, this time the New York Times. but And the New York Times journalists were like, so what happened with Ciara? And he was like, oh, you know, like we didn't work out, but I don't want to be like um treated badly by ah um the fans of this show because they love Ciara. So we just didn't work out. But he in he gets interviewed and he he he he says several times, you know, i wasn't i wasn't that into her, like she's not for me. But on the Times, like the huge newspaper, he rejects her several times. She said nothing.
Speaker: And he he keeps doing his press tour about her, basically. And the news season drops. And Wes Wilson is um is trying to kind of rebuild his image because she's a fan favorite and he didn't treat her well in the media. So he tries to get close to her once again. and unfortunately, she ends up falling into the trap, the same trap.
Speaker: So they start to get like super close, super flirty. you know, and like they're jokey and that's at some point like he's maid quoting her like exactly the same thing.
Speaker: No! But this time around and this is the season for this year so that's the that marks for the 10th year for this show.
Speaker: This time around there is another cast member called Amanda, Amanda, sorry, Amanda Batula and She's married to the main cast member of this show called Kyle.
Speaker: And ah her marriage is going through a tough time and the couple is thinking about separating. And Amanda is... Let's say she likes kind of attention. I think people notice that she likes having attention from other men despite being married. And she kind of flirts or implies some stuff might be happening. But actually, well, I'm sorry, I'm married. That's how she she she kind of moves in the in the house.
Speaker: And at the same time, she has horrible... ah ah like broadcasted fights with her husband. Her husband is absolutely awful. Like he he he insults her in front of everyone. And Ciara is friends with both ah the husband and Amanda, Kyle and Amanda. But she tries to protect Amanda. Right.
Speaker: So Amanda confines ah in Ciara and sierra is like, you need to be strong. You need to, you know, if you need to divorce, divorce. And you need to, um like, ah build up your business and be more independent. She's the best friend. Oh.
Speaker: I love that. Yeah. So while Wes Wilson is trying to rekindle the friendship with Ciara Miller, ah Amanda is having a horrible time in her marriage, but Wes and Amanda get close.
Speaker: Of course, you can guess what happens. They get close. The show ends ah its recording. um Ciara thinks...
Speaker: It seems like she thought that maybe something is going to happen with West once again. But in general, this year, ah we have two things that happened. Amanda says that she is divorcing her husband.
Speaker: And one month later, she is saying, oh, actually, I'm with West now.
Speaker: So it's like huge betrayal, but we see it on the show. So that's incredible because we see how West is like playing both. I mean, he's, we can leave his affection with Sierra and he's getting closer to Amanda, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker: This is such a classic white woman move I'm so, oh my God. Oh, this is why white women are like so, they're such an anathema to black and brown women. And I see why. Because this is the bullshit that you're dealing with all the time.
Speaker: um Yeah, it was so layered because there is the betrayal. and There is the possible affair, right? But there is indeed the friendship between those two women.
Speaker: And Ciara being the good friend who is like comforting her and Amanda just doing whatever she wants and getting into a new relationship with a guy who has the same issues as his husband.
Speaker: Because he one of the reasons why she was fighting her husband was that he's going out all the time, he's drinking too much, he wants to start a DJ career.
Speaker: He's like the life of the party. And Wes Wilson is exactly the same. Oh, man. this is oh This is so layered. You're right. See, this is what saying. Like, I don't need to watch it to be totally caught up in it. Look it. I'm totally invested all of a sudden. And all I've had is like 10-minute recap. Oh, my gosh. I mean, this is... ah And this is a formula, right? There's a reason why these are the most popular shows.
Speaker: But I think, you know, what FDS has taught me is like, you know, these relationships between the men and the women, like, sure, they're married or they're friends or whatever. But what really matters to me are the relationships between the women.
Speaker: yeah So for me, the scandal would be that Amanda fucking stabbed her bestie who had been supporting her and encouraging her, like stabbed her in the back.
Speaker: Yeah. And she lied also because she said she like there were a lot of rumors that. since the end of filming up until the divorce announcement.
Speaker: And ah journalists, friends, Sierra also asked, so is it is it is it is there something there between you and Wes? You guys spend so much time together. we saw you going back to his apartment, et cetera. And Amanda and Wes would say, no, no, nothing has happened. And Wes would be like, oh he would go to, i don't know, Sierra's, like he would go hang out with Sierra at the same time and like be with her. And so they they just lied for months.
Speaker: And and one day, i don't know, there was like a supposed video that was supposed to come out. And before it came out, they decided to to to come clean and say, oh, we we we've lied to you. We were together actually all of this time.
Speaker: And and people were watching the season that was recorded ah last summer. So they were now looking at every single sign. that West was actually two-timing, like both Amanda and Ciara.
Speaker: What? Yeah.
Speaker: Excuse me? Yeah. And at some point, for example, um so at the beginning of the season last year, that was recorded last year, ah ah West...
Speaker: ah sits on Ciara, like he puts his like butt yeah on Ciara's torso. And Ciara says to the camera, oh, you know what? When West does this, it's because he has a crush on the woman. like So he sits on her. And by the end of the season, we see him sitting on Amanda.
Speaker: ah Sierra, she's both so wise and so oblivious at the same time, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not all of us in a nutshell. I mean, because it looks like they're all in their 20s. Is that right? No?
Speaker: no What? No. You know, Amanda is 35. She's 35. She's the oldest out of the bunch. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think West is like, I think he's 30 now. And Sierra is also around that age. That's wild. But you know what? Honestly, when I was that age, I was so dumb, though. I mean, because I had a very arrested development with coming from such a remote ah rural place and then also from such a religious and conservative family background,
Speaker: You know, I, it took me a very long time to sort of really get to the adult world of dating. I think there was a lot of fuckery for a long time, which is what it sounds like this is all about. What really gets me when you describe this to me though, is like, I'm so sad that Sierra, like West clearly, i mean, so I've been looking at pictures online to look at these people while you're talking about them. And like, she is gorgeous. I mean, she is a model, my God.
Speaker: um And yet like, And she's a fan favorite. So West sounds like a typical man who is being very calculating and yeah and selective, right? He wants to pick right piggyback off of her popularity, get the screen time because she's going to be featured.
Speaker: um But then he's also two timing her with her best friend. And now it looks like what am I so now did I find out that apparently he had a secret girlfriend the whole time? The whole time. Yeah.
Speaker: Who is apparently, she looks like from the name Meija Moreno, she's probably ah in a Latin woman. Yeah. So people were saying, actually, he sounds exactly like the type of guy who doesn't make his relationship official with the women of color.
Speaker: Like he's kind of hiding them. And then with Amanda, now he's out and back with Amanda. He's official. He's everywhere, like photographed with Amanda everywhere, you know, despite Amanda being married. She's still married. Right. She hasn't divorced yet.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. This is a classic white man move. I mean, and this, I think you're, you've been pointing out some really interesting themes that I'd like us to discuss a little more in depth. Um, one that we won't get into, but like the fact that class is such a huge yeah driver, right? I mean, who has a summer house? It's a second house. Who has a whole second house that they only use for like two months of the year, you know? yeah And in America, as you know, like who has two months to just like jet off to their summer house? Only the wealthy have that. Nobody else gets more than like a week off at a time, if that. um So you've already have class differences.
Speaker: Part and parcel of that, that is also race differences, right? Like overwhelmingly, it's a white community. It's a white upper class community, not even just middle class. This is upper class. um So you already have that division as well. And then you get into these like,
Speaker: the the racial and the social and the class differences amongst dating couples. I mean, this is, this just goes so many layers deep. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I identified a lot of with Ciara because when you date like outside of your race, you, you run some, I mean, you go through so many ordeals, like there are so many risks. You can be like fetishized.
Speaker: You can be perceived as an experience. I think that's that was the case of Ciara because every single guy ah on the show and they all come from wealth and they're all white in a very like niche genre of Bravo shows. yeah and And they all treated her like she's an experience, you know.
Speaker: oh Mm hmm. Like a scientific experiment. Yeah, I don't know, like they want to experience her, but yeah they don't see her as a full human being. They don't see her as an option. They don't. I think there is a a question of status as well when it comes to dating. Like ah a lot of men, yeah, will will decide to associate with a certain women a certain type of women because in their social circus, it signifies status.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. This is, oh my gosh, this is so, no wonder you watch this show. This is so delicious, but also enraging. I think that's one of the reasons why, Sophie, whenever I try to watch, like, because my friends all love Love Island. And so I've watched that with them and um I've watched some of the Real Housewives shows with them, but I get so angry because I'm like a real radical Marxist. You know, I'm all about like the the abolition of the International Monetary Fund and, you know, like, let's Let's let banks fail. And because I just I'm so tired of the inequality that's baked into the current system. yeah And a lot of times when I watch these shows, it just reinforces how unjust and unfair and wrong our societies are.
Speaker: Yeah. Absolutely. Here's a woman who is a medical professional who was a professional during a plague, a modern day plague. And these men are looking at her like a like a collect a Pokemon card.
Speaker: Yeah, totally. It's just, it's so it's so sad. it's it's so It's so dehumanizing. It's so disrespectful. There aren't enough words. And look, like I'm already getting worked up about it and I haven't even watched the show. You know, so this is why I don't, this is why I don't let myself watch these shows because I just, I get too upset about it, to be honest with you. But at the same time, and this is why I read the think pieces and it's why I'm happy to have this conversation with you today. It does reveal so much. It is such a mirror of what's actually happening on the ground every day in the world today.
Speaker: and Yeah. But, you know, there are so many layers to this. One of the things that I think was kind of understudied, because, of course, um a lot of things, think pieces were written about it and stuff. yeah But to me, where FDS should have like a a say about it is yeah um Sierra's dating strategy.
Speaker: I think how we need to talk about Ciara's dating strategy. I think she may have the idea that the loving relationship should start by a friendship, maybe.
Speaker: Like friendship to lover. Mm-hmm. And she may have a hard time like with boundaries when it comes to like emotional boundaries. Like she gets attached to the guy way before the relationship is is defined.
Speaker: And then it gives them leverage. So they can feel it and it gives them leverage. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's it's really like a cycle, like it kind of repeated itself like over two different guys, like two major stories in the show.
Speaker: And the thing is like, to me, it's an interesting dating strategy because, yeah, you want to... to develop like that connection with the guy, ah to to you know to to see the compatibility and stuff. But it's a risky strategy because you get too attached to the guy. You haven't defined the relationship. You haven't safeguarded your emotions. you know And I think that's where she made like major mistakes. But of course, she, you know, it was during her twenty s Like she she was 24 when she started the show. So we all make mistakes. But I think it's interesting to look at it, you know, from an FDS perspective.
Speaker: I mean, I feel so, ah so identified with this because oftentimes, and, but I think it's also, um like you say, it's also like a self-defense mechanism. Like if I, if I start out as a friend, then we'll see if it can develop into something else. But then also I haven't like exposed myself too much. I think that was kind of the approach I took for a very long time because I didn't feel necessarily secure in my ability to be desired or to be desirable, right?
Speaker: And I wonder if Sierra as a black woman has, has had this sort of like self-defense mechanism where, you know, she knows she's likable as a person. She sounds very charismatic. She sounds very fun, yeah but it's very, that's very different from being seen as an object of desire. Right.
Speaker: Or as a woman who is desirable and will, a lot she it sounds like she knows that men are very status driven. And so, yeah, you know, she i imagine growing up black in this country has gotta be something where she has dealt with a lot of um
Speaker: a lot of derogatory behavior and and things that aren't necessarily maybe negative upfront, like but maybe she couldn't put a finger on it, but she knew, you know, if I were a white woman, maybe it would be different. Maybe he'd treat me differently. Maybe he'd pursue me differently.
Speaker: That's what's so heartbreaking, because when you date outside of your race ah and then you see the difference of treatment, it's really it it hurts.
Speaker: It hurts. oh Of course it does. And it's just when it comes to Summer House, oh, my God, it's so obvious. Like, you can really, like, point it out, the way those men treat her.
Speaker: For example, there is another cast member. He was, like, West... best friend and he also started like getting close same same same like scheme you know he started yeah getting close to Ciara and they became buddies and best friends and stuff but um she kind of friend zoned him a little bit ah I know ah yeah she friend zoned him but before that another girl came in she's like a beautiful Canadian white girl like blonde blue eyes
Speaker: And this guy was attracted to her. And in the end, um um so the guy was was telling to Ciara, look, ah you're fine. But there's this other of girl i'm more interested in. But it was so interesting how with the white girl, blow the white girl who came in he became so serious so fast, like he could see immediately.
Speaker: That, okay, I want to have something going on with her, like more official, more serious. But with Ciara, he kept trying to get close to her, but more in a sneaky way. like So you can really spot the difference in this show in particular because it was so white at the beginning. ah Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, man. Oh, that makes me. And this was I think the first thing I had started when I first started to read about um dating shows in particular, like I think The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, um the the main criticism that I kept coming across again and again was like, there are no Black women, or if there are black women, there are no black men, or like there are no black men. And it it was always like, why is it always so white? Why, when this country is such a diverse country, why is the representative population like never represented, you know, or if, if they do have a black woman, like they, they give them the worst options or they don't like, they don't give them the same full treatment of like courtesy and, you know, um like star making turn, all these things.
Speaker: And I was like, oh, this sounds like, this sounds like a really interesting case study of basically society at large is what it sounds like, right? But you're getting to see people act act the fool in real time. And you're like, holy shit, we've been saying this, but now I can point it out. Like, look at this, this Canadian blonde comes in and all of a sudden he's ready to like, you know, engage himself. Like he's ready to be engaged. Right. Yeah. Whereas he won't even ask Sierra on it a fucking date. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened. Oh my gosh. Oh man. This is, this is really, see, this is why I thought this would be interesting and you proved me right. And Sophie, this is something that, so if we were to, if we were to like apply some FDS rules, what would be some FDS rules that we'd be like, Sarah, Sarah, girl, we need you to, we need you to understand and follow this going forward. What would you say? Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I think I i think about a moment where Ciara. ah So it was the first season where there was West Wilson.
Speaker: West Wilson came in and ah they were on a date. And ah West was like, you know what? The show is ending, but i want you to meet my family ah for Thanksgiving, I think.
Speaker: hmm. And Ciara said, but We I don't know what we We are. i think that's what she she said something like. I don't know what we are, what we are doing. Like, ah how will you introduce me to your family?
Speaker: So there was no, you know, label. right And I think she alluded to not going because there was no label. But then in the end, after filming, she still went. So to me, that's the moment to me where West Wilson could like ah register that, oh, she she may have like some kind of boundary, but she doesn't respect it anyway.
Speaker: Like she, yeah. Yeah. So to me, that's where the the playing, like, you know, the games started. Yep. Yep. So yeah, FDS advice. ah Yeah. If you, before like committing to something as big as meeting the guy's family, maybe, yeah, define define the relationship or at least the ambiguity to me is already an answer.
Speaker: ah it's yeah If it's not a hell yes, it's no. Yes, exactly right. That's a major one. I think another one too is, and you know, I know people to various degrees do or do not follow this. I i would say Patricia, I don't know if she's as adherre as much an adherent of this tenet. I do in typical, don't think women and men can be friends. Not because women can't be friends, but because men can't be friends to us. Exactly. I completely agree.
Speaker: Right. And so if I hear that this guy is kind of sidling up and he wants to be my buddy and this and that and the other, it's like, I don't trust you to be a friend to me. I know that i know that you know that I will be a wonderful friend to you and you will get all the benefits of ah of a woman being your friend. But none of it' it's a one way street. It doesn't go both ways. Right.
Speaker: And if you like me and that's why you want to be closer to me because you like me and you're interested in me, then ask me on a date. Yeah. For that, i really recommend the movie When Harry Met Sally.
Speaker: Oh my gosh, you know the classic When Harry Met Sally? Yeah. Because the whole premise of the movie is like Harry is arguing with Sally, right? About yeah can men and women be friends? Yeah.
Speaker: And Sally is like, of course, of course, I have many, many male friends. Of course, men and women can be friends. and Harry is like, no, that's that's not on women.
Speaker: The reason why men and women cannot be friends. That's on men. Because... even Even when there is no like sexual relationship, ah even when the guy is not even attracted, deep down, deep down somewhere in the guy's mind, there is always the possibility of sex.
Speaker: Always.
Speaker: Shit. I mean, he said it. What else is there? I mean, this is so true. And this is what, this is what FDS is really trying to get across to women. It's like we, ah so many of us, and I think this is very, this is human nature. We project onto others what we believe ourselves. yes So a lot of times women are like, well, of course, men and women can be friends. And of course it's, you know, because you're looking at it from your perspective and how you and how you treat and think about others, which is beautiful and wonderful and like often very wholesome.
Speaker: I think a lot of women are just, I'm not saying all, okay, we're not going to do the not all thing either. But I think in general, we you know, women are socialized to be the world's best friend and to be like the savior and the and the buddy and, you know, your girl's Friday and the secretary. Like we're we're taught to be everything to everyone, right? That's what patriarchy has so us ah socialized us to be. But what we have to understand and really get through our skulls is that men are socialized to get the most advantaged from from everybody else for their own benefit. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. They're not in it for anybody's benefit but their own. If somebody else can benefit incidentally, fine. They don't care. They're not going to... and you know Most of them aren't going to actively act to make sure you don't get benefit. but But ultimately, it always comes back to, how does this benefit me? And that's how they're going to approach it. And so I had such an iconic scene that you just described from When Harry Met Sally because...
Speaker: That's all we're trying to say, ladies, queens. That's all we're trying to say is like, this is this is a reality. And it's to your own detriment when you don't understand and accept that this is part of their nature.
Speaker: Yeah. And most importantly, I've had friendship, quote unquote, with straight men. But what did they bring to my life? Like most of the time, truly, it's not worth it. Like it's just worth it.
Speaker: ahha I mean, I'd rather have that time be spent on my own hobbies or literally napping. Okay. I'd rather just take a nap. You know, because ultimately all the, and I've had so many quote unquote male friends and they all disappear as soon as they get a girlfriend. And it's not because the girlfriend is saying like, I don't want you having women friends. It's because I was just a placeholder and a therapist, you know, and yeah like a rest stop on their way to getting what they actually wanted. They never actually liked me as a friend to begin with. I was just there, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And that was very hard for me because, you know, again, for the longest time, I really doubted my own ability to be desirable. I just, you know, I had all these ideas around what you have to look like in order to to be considered, you know, a girlfriend or a wife. And so I thought the best I was going to get was to be a friend. And so that was the approach I i took. And over the course of many, many years and pre-FDS, I came to realize like,
Speaker: why, why do they leave as soon as they get married? Or why did they leave as soon as they have a girlfriend? I thought we were friends. I thought we were best friends. And, you know, then when I, when I discovered FDS and really put myself to reading about it, I was like, oh this, this is what was happening. And I just, it wasn't that I couldn't see it. It's that I wouldn't allow myself to actually identify what was happening because it was too heartbreaking to me, you know?
Speaker: And I think Sierra is probably going through a huge learning curve with the show. i hope she i hope she goes on to have a successful and wonderful life because she sounds like a delightful person.
Speaker: Honestly, her popularity completely exploded after that. ah She's on Dancing with the Stars now, the next season. Ooh, for you, Sierra. Honestly, get your get that cash, girl. I mean, this is it makes me so happy when I hear like people are able to, you know, not that it's going to be a lifelong career, but she sounds like such a dynamic and interesting and intelligent person with a really good heart.
Speaker: And those are the people I want to see succeed, Anne-Sophie. Yeah, I mean, come on. She was a nurse during the pandemic. Like, I mean, someone like ah and ah someone on in New York asked, you know, ah New York Meyers, like Mamdani, hey, do you have you heard about the Sierra Meaders scandal?
Speaker: And he and he said, well, I don't know about the other people, but Sierra, is she the nurse, right? Like, He knew her name because she's a nurse. She's a nurse and she's a reality TV star. And he said, like, think thanks thank you for your service, basically, because she was nurse during the pandemic, you know? So she's like an amazing person, like...
Speaker: And Wes Wilson is just, oh my God, these guys are not worth He's just some guy. Yeah, I looked at pictures. I'm like, that guy? I mean, but that's the thing. It's like when you're in person and like the voice and the charm. He's very charismatic and he's very funny. He's very, he I think he must be quite charismatic in real life.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. He sounds like some of these, he sounds like he's from the Midwest. I know exactly how, and they can just, they, again, they seem like they're so down home and so wholesome and like so real. Exactly. you know And it's, it's just a mask. It's just, they are also playing a character to get what they want. You know what? Watching Summer House, I've learned so much about American culture. Like...
Speaker: Because, yeah, i've learned I've learned so much. Like, I didn't know about the middle. low yeah The Midwest. Yes. youre Right. It's Missouri. Yeah. meet Midwest.
Speaker: He comes from Missouri, I think. And before the first guy that CR was with, he was from the South. He he was from a TV show recorded in in the in the South. And he said the Jezebel comments.
Speaker: And i was like, oh, my God, I need to look into that. So, I was like, okay, I'm getting to know American, you know, because yeah american culture and the different regions. And oh my gosh, that's so, it's almost like you're like a student of American culture with these shows. That's so funny.
Speaker: oh my gosh. I'm so delighted that you had this idea. and This was absolutely a humdinger of an idea. I think that's about all we've got for today. Unless there's anything else you want to wrap up with your thoughts and Sophie.
Speaker: I love this. It was a great exercise and I'm really happy to to be able to share that with you all. Oh, thank you, Queen. Another of our FDS queens in the wild bringing it to us real and unfiltered. It makes me so happy to have these conversations. And again,
Speaker: And Sophie, you're the first, but you're certainly not the last. So to our listeners who are interested and who have reached out, we followed up with you. um If others are also interested and have ideas, please feel free to reach out to us. Once again, I want to invite you over the next couple days to send us an MP4 or a little written comment ah that we can share with the UK media company. any of your roast to scrot ideas, or even just the last experience you had with a low value man, you can send that to us at contact at the female dating strategy.com.
Speaker: With that, we'll say goodbye. Thank you once again, and Sophie, and we'll talk to you again soon, Queens.
