Transcript
Speaker: Good morning. Welcome to the business of machining episode number 336. My name is John Saunders. And my name is John Grimsmough.
Speaker: And welcome back folks. We were off last week because, um, I was in San Francisco. Well, actually San Luis Obispo for a fusion 360 DSI summit. Grinto was supposed to be there. And unfortunately, um, some, some, I got sick. Didn't feel so good in that, um, really stinks. I was really looking forward to hanging out.
Speaker: Absolutely, super excited for the whole event. It's the first Autodesk event I would have been to in many years. And since pre COVID. And what do you know, I caught COVID and had to cancel my trip. So whatever. It was a big trip to cancel. I don't know if you know, I was gonna go to Titan's shop afterwards. Oh, really? In Texas. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh. The Tornos was having a big open house event at Titan's shop and they invited me to come and I was like, that is the day after the DSI event? Yes, I'll be there. Got it. I had my flights booked to Texas and then I was going to go to tactile turn, the pen shop and the knife shop also in Dallas and it was going to be an amazing trip and I had to cancel all of that. Then Meg was going to go to Montreal and do a figure skating camp because she's been getting super into that and she had to cancel that too.
Speaker: not the fun week to cancel, but whatever, things happen. Sorry. It's good. So I just spent the week sick and watching everybody else have fun. So I want to know all about what happened. I have no idea. Yeah. So look, it was great.
Speaker: They have done similar things in the past, the Portland event years ago, which was a Fusion 360 summit that had classes similar to Autodesk University. These are 30 minutes to an hour long presentations, some Q &A. There's everything from customer stories, like you and me talking about what we're doing or seeing. And then there's industry experts, if you will, like, for example, the folks at DSI that
Speaker: They aren't necessarily Autodesk employees, but they're talking more from a position of experience than just being a power user. And then the really cool thing, I think, that makes these events unique is you've got the ability for the folks from Autodesk that are writing this software to be there showing what's coming. And I think it's worth giving Autodesk and Al Watmo and the rest of the team a lot of credit for being so
Speaker: forthcoming about roadmap and future type stuff. They put up what's called a safe harbor statement that says basically like, hey, this is not promised and don't trade stocks on this or whatever. But they say, hey, over the next number of months, these are feature sets that we are working on and could be coming
Speaker: And it's really cool because this is shown to anybody who shows up at this event. It's not just for insiders or advisory board members or anything like that. And that's what I really enjoy because it gives you a chance to see what's happening, but then it also gives us a chance to weigh in on what we want to see and what could be important. Things that stood out were
Speaker: The integration, this is my own words and opinions now, but the integration of Camplete simulation is really coming along in Fusion. So they showed a preview of five axis machines where you're seeing more of the machine kinematics matching the code as the code moves alongside it. So the normal to date workflow in Fusion has kind of been you assuming you're not using Camplete.
Speaker: So you're just saying, OK, I have my fusion operations. I select a post processor. Maybe I have a machine selected. Maybe I have NC programs. But regardless, your output is a .NC file or whatever your machine takes, which is some form of G code. That could be then put into a third party simulator.
Speaker: or sort of timeout prior to creating the G -code, you could simulate in Fusion, but what you were simulating there was Fusion's version of the CAM, not necessarily a reading of the G -code, if that makes sense. And I wouldn't be careful to not talk out of line here because it couldn't be more of an important point about what Fusion will be simulating.
Speaker: I, and I'm sorry, I don't actually remember whether it's the G code or the camera operations, which kind of makes everything I'm saying here worthless, because that's the whole difference. But the big thing that is coming is you're gonna be able to see the code in like browsing through the code as it's simulating. And the other major thing that was missing was that it used to be that linking moves were all handled by the post. So fusion, the camera operations, your concert source, it was kind of
Speaker: Ignorance moves like it would you would give it some parameters and then it would hand those off to the post to do the rest And that could be where you caused crashes. And so now fusion will have that ability That's really cool
Speaker: That's sweet. Pursuit to safe harbor and whatever. Well, I mean, they bought Camplete, what, three plus years ago with the intention of integrating it, of fusing it into fusion. It's cool to see the progress on that. That's really awesome.
Speaker: for sure. The other one is actually two more and then I'll wrap up to not spend too much time on this. Configurations, have you played with those? Are you aware of those? Not really.
Speaker: So the example that I always thought worked well, and I think this is back from like a solid works tutorial, is if you take the, what do you call it, like a door hinge, the plate that you mount on the door frame or sill to swing a man's door open. That's a product that has kind of like two steel plates and it might have three screws, it might have four screws, it might be two inches, three inches or four inches. So you have all these different permutations or configurations, et cetera, of that part.
Speaker: It would seem quite silly to have, as you can imagine, if there's three different variables and there's three different variables of each, you all of a sudden end up with a kind of exponential number of permutations of this product. Fusion configurations will allow
Speaker: you have parametrically have one file and you just say, okay, today I want to make the three inch bracket that has three screw holes. And you don't need to save, you can kind of pull those configurations automatically back up as default if you will. And so there's this sort of hardcore CAD side of that, that is more what I just mentioned, where it could be a lot more interesting for us machinists is
Speaker: the idea of using configurations to help predefine CAM workflows. So kind of jumping to what I think could be a pretty awesome, I won't say extreme example, but definitely a fully vetted solution. And this is mostly coming from Lockwood is this idea that you have
Speaker: Let's say you have your current and you have, let's say you're R &D, your job shop, for the sake of this example, and you've got four different vice setups. You want to use the container method and you've got five different sock sizes or something like that. You could use configurations to have one master cam template that has all your different work holding setups in it with different
Speaker: stock parameters and so forth or parts, and it will automatically intelligently switch all that stuff out based on which configuration that you select, which means you have one master fusion file that can serve as your starting point as you want to update your tool library stuff or speeds and fees or templated workflows. The one thing I do wish they still had that
Speaker: I think it's coming, but it didn't come up this week is this ability to create our own read -only files. I want to create a template that John Saunders can overwrite, but none of the rest of the team can. That would be interesting to fork it off. But yeah, that's I think going to be really powerful. It'll be curious to see what folks do with that. And then lastly, have you heard of CAM of CAMs?
Speaker: Okay. So right now, Fusion 360, your CAD stuff, and then you have the manufacturing workspace, which is your CAM. You can take a Fusion 360 file and you can right -click, insert it as whatever, and it inserts that part into a separate model, but it only inserts the CAD. Okay.
Speaker: Now what's potentially coming is the idea that you can also link in, whatever you want to call it, embed, link, drive. I don't know what the correct terminology is going to be. The camp. So as an example, I think this was a simple and elegant example. If you have a five axis pyramid, that pyramid has three sides to it.
Speaker: you could create that CAD file that has your, whatever, Lang or fifth axis pyramid on it. And it's got nothing else in it. It's no data to it. But then you've got 17 different parts that you want to make on different days that are already pre -programmed, they're repeat jobs, whatever. You can right click on the three you want to run today, insert those three onto your pyramid, joint them up, line them up, et cetera. And it will keep the CAM in the original file
Speaker: file, but pull it into the pyramid and you can now run that with the correct sort of five axis setup and potentially changing some patterning or linking stuff or tool change type stuff. And so it's kind of this cam of cams also super interesting with what we could do on a horizontal where we have cam live at the sort of child level, but bring parts into a big tombstone. Yeah, like the part level.
Speaker: Yeah. Interesting. That sounds messy if done improperly. No, for sure. Right. Agree. On the flip side, it's sort of elegant because you don't have to, well, we've all dealt with pattern issues or complicated master CAM files where there's more information to one particular file than you'd rather have.
Speaker: Or conversely, there's say I have parts designed into individual files and I bring them into an assembly and then I bring that assembly into a CAM file or something like that, like all these stages of products. And then if I want to make an edit, I got to go back uphill and open these other files to edit the CAD model, which works well and kind of keeps things straightforward and simple, but also adds complexity in a way that like you don't always know where all the parts are. You know, you got to find them kind of thing.
Speaker: Yeah, I know for sure. I do agree with the idea that ultimately this idea of how we want to make parts is that when we're designing a part or we have a CAD file, there's usually some value to having the CAM data live there, especially if it's on its own. You might have for a blade or a mod vice, we have the top jaw. Now we might have the fixture in that same master file, but that fixture lives on a bigger fixture in a production environment. And that data is separate. And I like this CAM's ability to keep those two separated.
Speaker: That'll be cool to see. I'm curious how I could integrate that into my workflow once I learn more about it and see what's going on.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, there's so many other nuggets of things of like, um, you know, global varials blend is way better. Five access to a bus coming, uh, simplify or replacing like the, uh, simplified or replace basically complicated. She know designs with super simple stuff. Um, probing, like there were so many things that, that I think is the teaser nugget to say.
Speaker: Um, if you want to, if you enjoy CNC machine, if you enjoy manufacturing, uh, there were so many folks from the community there, Dylan from within, uh, tolerance, uh, Jay Pearson, Rob Lockwood, some of the Facebook guys, um, Amish did not show up, which was really disappointing. Phil and Devin were there. I'm sure I'm forgetting some like CJ come.
Speaker: CJ was there. Thank you. I'm sorry. I feel bad now that I'm... Yeah. Well, there's lots of people, right? Mark Terryberry was there. There were just so many folks there. So that's that ability. So example, a guy was talking to me about Haas.
Speaker: probing when you're not in B0, C0. So basically probing on a Haas with, I forget what it's, I think it's D -W -O or TC, I'm pretty sure it's D -W -O enabled. And that's been kind of a sticky point that Haas hasn't had. And the short answer is it's been worked on at the factory and it's coming potentially as soon as early next year. Like getting that dialogue and that feedback and stuff like this is what it's all about. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker: So yeah, they're going to try to do, um, the sort of off the record shit chat was the next one could be potentially in the Midwest. Um, which I certainly wouldn't mind. Um, I don't really mind traveling either. The.
Speaker: San Luis Obispo was beautiful. Like middle of California, phenomenal weather. You were 10 miles from the ocean. We went over to the, for one dinner near there, it was beautiful. Like all of that was awesome, but kind of a pain to get to. And, you know, it was like, you didn't necessarily need a rental car, but it was, this is gripey stuff. Like there was a lot of walking for some folks. So I would rather see it like in a sort of not needing to take a connection
Speaker: like a Denver or Chicago or… Yeah, it was in Vegas for many years or at least AU, the big one. Yeah. That we went to many times. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome event. Definitely look forward to wherever the next one is. Sweet. Me too.
Speaker: Yeah, and that was the feedback that we were talking about. A couple of the things that were presented were a little bit more, and I hate to use the word, but the honest answer is sales pitchy on certain add -on softwares or other stuff. And the feedback was like, hey, the reason we love these events is that ability to see that raw technical skill set, user experience, conversations around that. And I don't have too much concern that that's going to be the direction they're able to move in.
Speaker: doing, Phil did a super deep dive class on the API. Craig Chester did a three -hour deep dive on like what's happening in multi -axis toolpaths. Like that stuff's just awesome. Yeah, gold. Cool. Yeah. What have you been up to? Not a lot, actually. So it was off all last week and just didn't feel great. So I didn't do much, to be honest. But the shop ran great. Everybody ran great.
Speaker: It was nice actually, even though I was around to not be needed. And the funny thing is I was planning on taking the whole week off to be with you anyway. So like kind of perfect because the shop was totally ready without me. So everything ran great. You know, a couple of little issues. The Aroa was giving some air.
Speaker: There's some gripping issues and the air system like all the solenoids and valves and stuff started leaking really bad Angelo said so they had to kind of take the solenoids apart and Re clean them and put them back together and then they got it to seal again Huh little things like that, but you know solenoids are magnetic. What would be leaking? I Don't know maybe it's maybe it actually to know whatever I'm just
Speaker: Well, it's like an air solar noise. So it's leaking air and oil. And I'm like, where's the oil coming from? Maybe it's in our air or something. I didn't look at it yet. But anyway, so such a device that you rely on to just be there and work all the time. Like imagine if your palette changer on the Okuma stopped working. Please retract that. I redact that statement. I will hang up on you. Exactly. But anyway, they got it fixed.
Speaker: On that note, I've always said trying to be prophetic and force myself outside of my comfort zone that you and I have been spoiled because we've started new shops with new equipment that haven't been run very long. Really just the truth of it.
Speaker: Conversely, nobody ever plans on starting a machine shop or a business where it's like, oh, do I look forward to running my equipment to the ground and not reinvesting in technology? That's not the mindset. You all of a sudden look around it. It's like, why would I replace a seven -year -old lathe that makes me money and is great? But the reality is there's newer, better, interesting stuff out there.
Speaker: We're seeing more and more knock on wood little things, but super stupid. But two years ago, it was kind of a fun shop perk. We bought a Jura. Everybody loves coffee. It was like a $2 ,000 coffee machine. It was a nice perk. It gets used all the time, and it broke. And so it's like, do we spend, I guess, $500 just to send it in for a service call? Or do we try to fix it or just replace it?
Speaker: and then our overhead LED lights are failing. This is the one failed this morning, which I'll be honest, it was annoying. I had a bunch of things I wanted to get done before the podcast. Not stressed, but like focus and then you come in and it's blinking. The way they fail, the driver causes the light to blink. It's almost annoying because I'm like, I know you can generate light. Would you just please stop blinking?
Speaker: And they're way cheaper. Like when we bought those overhead LEDs, we bought really in a hot, like 95 CRA color corrected, like nice overhead lights. I don't know what they were, maybe three or $400 a piece. Now they're $110. But it is a little bit of pain in the butt to go replace them one at a time. But I did it this morning and
Speaker: Honestly, 15 minutes. I'm just thinking now, instead of just reacting to this, should I realize, hey, we've got, I don't know how many there are, 20, 25 of these. Should we just go order all new ones and replace all of them at once? I'm not there yet. Can you tell color wise or anything that the new one looks different?
Speaker: Yeah. So that's, um, the newer ones are both brighter in their, uh, candle, like they're, they're what they call it foot candles. I think like they actually put out more light. I think that's probably because the old ones probably have some amount of degradation or it's been John, it's been seven plus years we've been in the shop. Yeah.
Speaker: And they honestly, they get a little dirty and so forth. But then the other ones also, they aren't quite the same color temp. I think they're supposed to be, but they're just not. So you do see the difference. It doesn't. You notice it for about the first day and then it kind of just get used to it. Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Speaker: I don't know, they were preventatively replaced them all so that they're all like, you know, replaced now in 2023. And then they have another seven plus life years, whatever, or more, hopefully. Yeah. Kind of, I kind of am bummed that they only last, like, yeah, I really expected them to last longer, especially because you know, it's a climate control shop that, you know, I don't know. And they don't, I assume you turn them off at night. Yep. Correct. Right. That's two. So, uh, yeah, anyway.
Speaker: And I'm sure it can't be, when you put them in, the shop was empty.
Speaker: What do you mean? When you installed them, the shop was empty, and now there's machines everywhere. So they can't be easy to replace. Sure. True point. It's not terrible. One of them failed two weeks ago was kind of a pain in the butt. We have a scissor lift, so it doesn't make it too bad. The worst thing that's happened is we've had so much change over the last seven years that there is a decent amount of shadow casting because the light's kind of over a machine or something. Yeah.
Speaker: In the days where there's days where I'm like, oh, man, it would be so nice to have a complete overhaul of the shop, like all new electrical conduit and new lighting plan. And, um, but, you know, that's big. I just don't think that's gonna happen. Yeah. How long have you been in yours? Uh, coming up on four years. Okay. By Christmas. Yeah. Wait. I know you guys did a lot of improvements, including lights as well.
Speaker: Yeah, lights, paint, epoxy. I was machining on the Willyman yesterday and I was filming some brass, had the door open, don't tell anybody. The brass was coming out onto the floor a little bit. I just swept it up with my hands on the epoxy and I smiled to myself at how clean our epoxy is and how -
Speaker: You know, I didn't even get dirty. I just picked up chips and a tiny bit of dust and the floors are that clean. And I'm like, this is just, this is really nice. Yeah. It's holding up great. You know, our epoxy, we've got some, some chips in it here and there from where we dropped something or, um, you know, little wear and tear, but it is held up extremely well. Yeah. Oh, uh, that was the other fun thing. I show up at the DSI event, Marcus and Josh.
Speaker: Marcus and Josh. Marcus is a rock star apps guy at Willem and McAdill. Oh, those guys. Yeah. Then Josh is out of Noblesville. Yeah. I know Josh. He actually came and did a lot of our machine training. I don't think I've met Josh or work with Marcus a lot like over phone and stuff.
Speaker: Likewise, I've talked to Marcus. Marcus actually swung by our shop on a day I was on the road. I hadn't met Marcus and so I spent quite a few hours talking to them about life and machining and all that. Yeah, I've spent a combined total of probably 30 hours on the phone with Marcus over the past few years. He's a super awesome dude. Yeah, all those guys are super sharp. Yeah, everybody's solid. It's great.
Speaker: Um, yeah. So yeah. Well, so it was super, super nice past couple of days. Um, on Saturday, it was my birthday, uh, 40 happy. Thank you.
Speaker: Didn't need to do much, but I was like, after being sick for a week, what do you want to do on your birthday? I'm feeling kind of better. This is the first day I'm feeling better. Saturday, I just want to go to the shop. I want the shop to myself for the day. And I did, and I played on the Willamans. I played with my Willy. And it was just so nice. I made two parts kind of start to finish. One is a checking fixture for one of our pen parts.
Speaker: It's kind of complicated, perfectly willowman job, three radial holes and some features and tolerances. It was just pleasant. It was just so nice. Yeah. So cool. Can you go by yourself or the family come? No, just by myself. Yeah, and it was just wonderful. That's awesome. So, Willman's running good? Mm -hmm. Yeah, but I still haven't hooked up the bar loader yet.
Speaker: because I'm not making enough parts yet to require it, but that'll be the big step next. And everything runs great. It just runs, turns on, works great.
Speaker: He used a lot of V style turning inserts with an eight thou nose radius. And on the Wilhelmin, I find that they chip pretty quickly. Um, I don't know. Maybe it's just, I got to program a little bit differently than, than I do on the Swiss with 2000 PSI, you know, pressure. Um,
Speaker: probably just when it digs into a corner or a shoulder or like the kind of load on the tool kind of thing. But basically I'll be making a part and they'll come off, you know, within a 10th. And then the next part will be a foul bag. I'm like, hold on, something happened. And then I checked the insert and it's, you know, microchipped. There's just a little silver spot on it. Um, and sorry, place the insert back to normal. Good to go. But, uh, yeah, so that's slightly frustrating. Um, just learning how to, you know, avoid that.
Speaker: Are you turning with the spindle straight up and down or tip to an angle? Straight up and down. Okay. They said it's good to have to, especially on brass, but if you tip it, say up to 45 degrees, you're pushing more of the force. You're reducing the load on the spindle bearings. Interesting. Oh yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker: And I believe Grant does that, but I'd have to ask him actually. Yeah. I mean, it depends on your insert that you're using and how you deal with that, right? Spindle bearing load. I didn't think about that. That's the thing I'm just, I've kind of said from a light, like I love that machine. And I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to toast something on it just because we were, you know.
Speaker: going too much. We do very little turning on it, which pleases you greatly. Yeah, it's so funny. What's funny, so I'm making this screw as well, which looks like a small screw, except it's got a really fat, thin head and a Torx Plus pattern in it with a really shallow Torx. We use it for grinding our knife blades on the current and the speedio.
Speaker: And so I need to make more of those. I've been making them from 17 -4 stainless which is relatively hard. I want to make them from A2 and heat treat them to like 60 so that we keep stripping out the torques basically. So what's funny is, so I filmed this video yesterday about making the part and then I realized you could actually make the screw like
Speaker: rotated 90 degrees, like threads pointing to the sky kind of thing, not axially because the willowman is so capable, you just thread mill it. Yeah.
Speaker: You just make it from bigger bar and make it sideways. That is actually possible. It's nuts to me. The way I'm making it because the head's so big, the vice, it works to grab the part but it doesn't work to eject the part because the jaws don't open up far enough so the head catches it and it just wouldn't fall. If you made it front to back or back to front, the direction would work to eject this particular part. Then it occurred to me, I was like,
Speaker: If I just made it sideways, I could eject this part if I really had to, right? It's nuts. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. One thing I'll just ask you about that. Are you, you're chipping on brass? No, once I go to steel. Ah, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. Either cutting 17 .4, which is like 45 Rockwell, no joke there. Sure. Or yesterday it was A2, which is soft, but still like steel. Yeah, not chipping on brass. Okay. But that's cool.
Speaker: Okay, Swiss question for you. Assume I have a half inch piece of material for a round bar. If you extended that material out from the collet face. Guide bushing. Thank you, guide bushing. Obviously, if you drill the radial hole, that's just drilling a hole straight up and down through the part. You could also use an end mill to say cut a slot or interpolate a hole, right?
Speaker: What is the Swiss feature or option that would let you drill that hole or cut that slot instead of straight up and down through the bar at an angle? You need the B -axis add -on to a Swiss lathe where all the live tools can actually rotate either manually or there are automatic ones where they're motorized. You can be like 42 degrees please.
Speaker: Okay, but if it's a fixed...
Speaker: If it's a fixed angle for a production product, you just get them set and forget it sort of thing. Yes, but it totally changes the available live tools, usually gives you a lot less, takes up a lot of space, but it's like this add -on device that rotates to 45 degrees, you lock it down and it's got say two live holders in it. They are driven. And they're driven, yeah, but it takes up the spot of four live tools or something like that.
Speaker: Um, so it's like sort of medical parts, you know, weird dental implants or whatever. There's definitely a use case for it. Um, it's quite expensive to like tens of thousands of dollars for the add -on, but for the people that need it, I mean, it's.
Speaker: sounds awesome, but I certainly looked at it and I was like, Oh, sweet. I want all the features. And I was like, I don't need it. Yeah, sure. You know, five years later on that Swiss, I still don't need it. Yeah. But the Wilhelmin, like we're spoiled with the Wilhelmin because any angle, any degree, any hole, any feature, any flat end mill, whatever is fair game. And it is not really spoiled.
Speaker: Not only fair game, but fair game with 42 tools or more, 30 ,000 or more spindle, proper milling spindle, not, you know, two janky gear driven. Yes. You know, B, fixed B's. Yeah, I hear it. Yeah. And on both of our lathes, our Swiss and our Nakamura.
Speaker: I mean, the driven tools are fine, but they are gear driven, janky. They're not as quality as a milling spindle. And you see it in the quality of the part, and you see it in the cut finish. They're just kind of chattery. Yeah. Yeah. On that note, we've got some new, more holders that I wanted to check to see where they were. We've been kind of cash flowing in, or growing the tool library over time for the Willman, which has been awesome.
Speaker: Yeah, I just keep adding tools. I'm trying to be relatively strategic with what I'm adding, but not removing anything. So I think I'm up to 18 in there right now. Well, 18 million tools, and then three or four turning tools, something like that. It's not cheap to tool up. That is for sure. So it's, I mean, Mary Tools got their new holders that they came up with, which are probably the cheapest on the market for an HSK 40.
Speaker: your 16 or 11 holder, right? So I haven't gotten any of those yet. But we do have some of those and Grant loves them. They're not exactly the gauge length we'd want for everything. And so we've been buying the Technics, ERs that are 65 millimeters. They are great. And they're very reasonable. Oh, you do? Okay.
Speaker: didn't know if you did or not. Yeah, the call it not is fairly large on them I noticed. Sometimes for like a super short small tool to cool it doesn't always get in there. Whereas with the rego fix power grip unit that we have, the call it knows is like tiny. And you know, you get really good visibility and good stuff, but they're like $500 a holder and call it like, yeah, silly money. Yeah, expensive. Um,
Speaker: Yeah, no, I love that machine. Yeah. You figure out a tool life management on it yet?
Speaker: sending a tool life limit on the well. No idea. Yeah. Yeah. It's been awesome. Grant just runs with it. Um, I know we do break detect. I don't know if that's, so that's obviously reactive. I don't know if he's doing proactive stuff on it or not. It's nice. Like I just, for all the tools that I care about, I'm setting a maximum life of, I think it's 250 hours is the maximum you can set it to. And then once you set that, it'll start counting.
Speaker: up or down. I don't know. But it'll start tracking how much time the tool has been used so that as I chip it out or wear it out or whatever or break it, I can be like, oh, that tool lasted for 100 minutes or something like that. So that's a reasonable limit. It's a learning exercise, right? Yeah, sure, sure. And then once you have a bit more experience, you can proactively use that to set warnings and stuff and have the machine know that you or call a sister tool.
Speaker: Yes, agreed. That was the other sort of thing I'd say from the Fusion Summit was there's no real news on Fusion and linked libraries, which is an issue. At some point, this needs to be addressed more seriously. I did hear some kind of off the record chatter about
Speaker: It's not not on the roadmap, but I think it's a big overhaul that'll change some of the architecture, which I get. It's funny. When I was starting to use Fusion in 2015, I literally thought Fusion was like Autodesk had an office somewhere and there were a group of 20 people that were the Fusion team. It's like 800 people across the world. It probably was that back in 2016.
Speaker: It's a humbling effort and like even Phil's class on the API and seeing, your API is, I would say it's about as hardcore programming as you can get, especially if you're not a programmer, like you're trying to get API stuff to work based on cheat sheets and PDFs or chat GPT. It's pretty complicated when you start looking at like calling B rep faces and pulling commands and it's kind of cracks the hood of making you realize how complicated it is to build a full blown
Speaker: You saw a modeling tool, let alone CAM and so forth. I have a lot of respect from a technical side. On the flip side, from a customer standpoint, it's totally ridiculous and unacceptable. There's no ability to globally change tools when gauge links change or coolant styles change. It's a safety issue. It's an automation issue. It's a process reliability issue. I think it's just being ignored.
Speaker: The more we grow the company and I build out our internal tool library per machine and I'm past two, three years, I've gotten since getting the current basically, I've gotten rigid with that tool library because we're adding tools and not removing them kind of thing. The master tool library is master is key and then you pull it to each individual file and then it breaks that link. It's the whole thing you want.
Speaker: And if changes happen, I do make a gauge length change or a four flute to five flute or something like that. And I have no way of knowing where that tool is used or how many times it's been used or, you know, I hear you. Yeah. I just wonder if it's, I wonder if it's not an issue for many people, just the way they use a tool library. Maybe they use it more throw away. Maybe they, you know, I don't know. I think folks like us,
Speaker: where we have larger ATCs, it's more of an issue. And to be fair, I'm a complete green, totally a novice on, are there other camp systems that have addressed this issue or handle it better? I have no idea. So I can't speak like some of the other folks can about, hey, you should copy this. But what I do know is that
Speaker: You know, we have a Kuma with the 218 tool matrix. The tool library should be a digital version, a digital twin of that matrix. It should be a master thing that reflects that, the physical existence of that.
Speaker: because there were some conversations at a prior event about like, well, how do you want this to look and what should happen? And like, should you be able to just click get latest like you do in the cat? I was like, that just seems so like, what am I getting the latest of? And my user opinion is that we're sorry, we can stop talking about this a second. My user opinion is that
Speaker: In your example, let's say tool 31 is a four -flute quarter treadmill. If you change it to a five -flute in your master tool library, when you open up the next file, that file shouldn't have ever even had any other instance of that tool other than the one that was in the master tool library, which you've already updated the speeds and fees. And so perhaps you need to regenerate it. Yeah. I wouldn't mind a warning for that operation or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker: some sort of forced user interaction that tells you, hey, this tool changed in the master library, are we still good here? Because if you change a gauge length and you shorten it up a little bit, it could crash on the next part, right? Yeah, like a forced link would be amazing and a forced warning for massive changes I think would also be necessary from a safety aspect.
Speaker: That was, I feel like where the conversation naturally went, you had also contributed to going off the rails. It's like, you're not going to please everybody. And trying to show some like, you know, think of it this way. Think about you opening a file. Like, John, how many tools do you have in some of your files? 70, you know? And let's say you happen to have changed 37 of them. Are you really going to
Speaker: ask, is it reasonable to expect or ask the software to generate a intelligible change tracking report of like, hey, 37 went from four flutes to six flutes. But because guess what, when you do that, all these other parameters happen to have changed as well, like feed for tooth or feed forever, like whatever. And that's all noise when really what you're saying is no, I just went from four to five flutes. That's the change that matters. But fusion doesn't know that. And then
Speaker: You know, what if it's, I think a lot of the point is that this exists in a system where it's not just one person programming, it's a team. So if I make that change and then Grant opens the file, I don't know, you don't care. Like what? I want to run my part. Right. So I get it in the reason to, so there's a safety aspect there, but I still don't like it. Yeah, go. Back to the woman though, did I tell you about our fire trace?
Speaker: No. Yeah. This is awesome. I think tentatively awesome. I started the conversation with the sales guy and sent him a picture of the, you know, used probably fairly old fire trace system that we had. And I was like, Hey, I was.
Speaker: Ours came with a detached slash removed fire trees. I did not know that. I knew that and I asked Will and I was like, hey, will you just send it to us so we at least know what we're working with here? Yeah.
Speaker: I'll be the first to admit, I love saving a buck and I can save a buck, but this is a safety thing. I reached out to the firehairs guys like, hey, here's the system we had on it. I don't even expect that this could be reused. I just wanted you to see if this avoids you from having to start from scratch on what the right fit is. If you look at the thing and you ask for a couple more things, he's like,
Speaker: We're not done here yet, but what he made it sound like is they can re -inspect and certify that existing thing and then I just need some extra lines or valves or something to get it up and running. You're talking hundreds of dollars instead of 10 grand or whatever.
Speaker: That's the goal. I guess it'll be a bummer at this point if it goes the other way, but we're at the point now, it's doing bar changes during the day, which is awesome, but we're not running it after hours for that reason. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, it is good.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually looked at my tank yesterday, the fire trace tank, just to make sure like it's still got pressure. Yeah, okay, it's good. Yeah, I just did a quick visual inspection of the line. It's still there, it's still good. It's one of those, you'll be glad you have it when it is needed. But until then, you're just like, okay, I had to, I had to get it.
Speaker: Yeah. And actually cutting A2 yesterday, sometimes the coolant pump takes a second to spray coolant. So the machine's already cutting. And on that first facing the end of the bar pass, cutting A2, it smokes. And you see a little puff of smoke come up, and then the coolant comes on. I'd add a dwell to that, John. Yeah, it might want to. But it's kind of neat to see that the machine is faster than the coolant pump at this time. Or put a check valve in it or something would work. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So that's on my list of, um, uh, this, I, I want, we're kind of out of our informal time of it today, but, um, I really want to get serious and I guess I want some accountability in terms of this conversation about, okay, I've got some work that I need to be involved with the, with finishing out some of the gen three mod vice rollout, the puck chuck rollout, actually the locomotive grinder install in training happens tomorrow and Friday, which is awesome.
Speaker: Um, but then I have a bunch of days off in the shop stuff that just needs to happen. Um, and it's kind of reminds me back to, yeah, okay. I got to think you're listening to this and you're a shop owner, you probably can relate, but like I'm.
Speaker: I'm comfortable saying I can do things really, really well when I focus on them, but just I don't often afford myself the time to focus. So cleaning up the station where we change inserts or organizing some of our pallet racking or even just looking at it and then getting the team some instructions on where to go with it. And something you said on the Willem and made me think of something else on that front I needed to do. I can't remember. Check files, come on, I don't know, but there's some stuff that's, it's going to happen. So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. How about you? What are you doing today? On a very fun and interesting note. I got my 1968 Volvo Amazon back from the shop. Oh yeah. Finally. And they put new calipers in the front, new brake lines, things like that. And I've been driving it for the past two days. No way. It is so much fun. So, Leif came with me. My dad dropped us off. So, he dropped us off at the shop and he's like, okay, see ya.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, I guess we're driving this home by ourselves. He had to leave. And Soleif and I got it. We drove it from the shop to the next inspection place where they did an appraisal on it, and then we get it registered and stuff. And there was a detour, so we had to go up the little hill in town. And right near the top of the hill, the car started to cut out.
Speaker: and like took took took took and I'm like oh no and it's not a good spot to like pull over and stop and so died and then it's a it's an automatic so it's not a manual but so it died and then you know try to start it again and it catches for a few seconds then it dies again and we're like oh no what are we gonna do apparently it doesn't like going up hills the fuel gauge said half thought it was good so we backed it into a safe spot and then
Speaker: Even on that spot, it was still parked on a slight uphill, and it just wouldn't start. It wouldn't catch. It wouldn't do anything. So I was telling Leif, I was like, OK, an engine needs fuel air spark. Without those three things, it doesn't work. So it's obviously got air. Let's pull a plug wire off, check for spark. Yes, it's sparking when we crank it. So it must not have fuel. So I was able to pull the fuel pump hose off, and heat turned it on, and turn the fuel pump on, and it was coming out.
Speaker: We're just out of gas. The gauge says half, but we are out of gas. So he helped me push it on this gravel road into a slightly more downhill position, and we got it started.
Speaker: No way. Yeah. Because it had so little fuel that literally being tilted up at five degrees or tilted down at five degrees or flat, it worked. You had one pickup, it's just one. Yeah, exactly. Eric came to the rescue and brought us a five gallon gas tank and we drove home after that. Once I filled up the tank, it drives great.
Speaker: That's awesome. It's so much fun. Driving an old car like that, I've never had a car that old. Driven a lot of 80s follows, but this thing is just such a joy to drive. It gets looks, it's so many thumbs ups from older guys, and it's just a blast. So much fun. Did they not import them to the US?
Speaker: Yeah, tons. Yeah. I feel like I've got a decent eye for seeing weird and older cars. I have never seen one of those with my own eyeballs that I'm aware of. Yeah. It's a unique looking car. Volvo Amazon. That's awesome, dude. Would you trust it enough to drive here?
Speaker: Um, not yet. So that's a five hour drive. No, not yet, but maybe somebody, some of your, I drove it to work yesterday and it was, it was awesome. Yeah. Which is great. Good for you. So anyway, that was awesome. Yeah. Are you going to do more with it? Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, even though I took one of our one of our notebooks and I put it in the car and I was like, this is the fix it notebook. It's the maintenance log and like all the things because when you're driving it, you're like, oh yeah, that rattles. Okay. Breaks are a little spongy still. Like, so then you write your notes. But anyway, super fun. It's I haven't had a lot in my personal life that's like John's hobby because everything's work or family. And so now this is starting to pull me out of it and like,
Speaker: give me a third brain space to kind of release myself. And that's so far been super nice and super fun, but it's going to get freaking expensive. So that's gonna be fun.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, and like, gosh, to be able to do so with late two is like, yeah, like check so many boxes. It's awesome. Exactly. Good. Good. Well, to answer this question next week, we'll do a cliffhanger. Are you going to consider electrification of it? Don't answer it. Don't answer this week. All right. Okay. Awesome. Sounds good. See you next week. Later. Bye.
