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Journey of Faith: From Belief to Complete Surrender
50 Plays5 months ago
In this episode, Dan Sanchez and pastor Kyle Hess talked about the profound commitment involved in following Jesus, emphasizing the concept of absolute surrender. The discussion delved into the different stages of spiritual surrender, from those who have never fully committed to those who have, yet struggle with consistency. Drawing on scripture, personal experiences, and practical advice, Pastor Kyle Hess explored the significance of daily devotion, prayer, and scripture reading to maintain a steadfast relationship with Christ. The conversation was enriched by analogies and examples showing how understanding God's love can lead to a deeper, unwavering commitment to living a Christ-centered life.
Timestamps:
00:00 22 simple ideas for surrendering to God.
04:15 Periods of struggle are moments of grace.
09:13 Struggle with daily Bible study, but still valuable.
12:49 Slow and easy wins, quick wins lost.
14:00 Peter's struggle to focus on God.
18:56 Assess Christian commitment through workplace and lifestyle.
20:50 Podcast interviews reveal Christian language influence.
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Transcript
Introduction to Surrender in Faith
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church podcast I'm Dan Sanchez and I'm here with Kyle Hess who is the student pastor who preached this past Sunday on the topic of following Jesus and This we're gonna be breaking that topic down in more detail in our scripture unfiltered series here on the podcast So Kyle, it's good to have you back on the pod. It's good to be here. Thanks, Dan
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm excited because you didn't just cover following Jesus. Like I said right before we started recording, I felt like, because that can be interpreted many different ways. There's many people who think they follow Jesus. Even people who have never even gone to church, they're like, oh yeah, I believe in Jesus. I follow him.
00:00:39
Speaker
There's people who probably aren't even Christians. They're like, oh yeah, I love the teachings of Jesus. I follow those teachings in my life, generally. I don't believe he was God. So it's such a broad topic, but I'm like, yeah, but that's not what Kyle preached
Understanding Full Surrender
00:00:52
Speaker
about. What you preached about is a surrender, absolute surrender, which is a different level, I think, of Christianity and one that the Bible really speaks to when it says to follow.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's even a step more than salvation, right? Because we look at the thief on the cross and he really never got the opportunity to surrender his whole life to Jesus. He had the opportunity to acknowledge Jesus as his Lord. And so when he did that, he became saved. But there's a much deeper involvement in our Christian walk than just receiving the salvation of Jesus Christ.
00:01:29
Speaker
Um, and that's what this is talking about in Matthew. It's breaking it down to say, Hey, if you are actually going to say that you are following me, let's see what you're going to do with your life to prove that. Um, and that's what you're talking about is that full surrender. So in this podcast, I wanted to kind of break it down for three groups of people. There's only three, there's probably, there's only three groups of these, these types of people on earth right now. But of course, listening to the podcast, uh, one group, they've never actually taken the chance to fully surrender.
00:01:58
Speaker
They might even be saved, but they've never had this moment where they're like, okay, I'm all in, every part of me, every cent that I own, all my clothes, all my possessions, my family, my time, my energy, my affection, all of it, all in, I'm not going back, burn the bridges, this is it.
00:02:19
Speaker
Many people have had that moment. So that's one group of people. They've never had this all on surrender moment. Then there's those who have and have honestly stayed steady with it. It's probably going to be the smallest group of people because it's hard to stay steady, which leads to my third group of people, ones who have had that moment.
00:02:34
Speaker
And have since compromised or backslip we call it right and whether it's a small compromise or a large compromise or a series of small steps away from it somewhere they drifted away and have not continued to live in that fully surrendered mode.
Barriers and Paths to Surrender
00:02:50
Speaker
So with that in mind, I'd love to explore what's holding each of these groups back from being fully surrendered. What's coming to my mind like right off the cuff is two simple ideas. And one is someone who's just fully into God's word.
00:03:06
Speaker
is going to be one who hits that moment of surrender. Because the more we dive into God's Word, the more we realize His love for us. The deeper we understand who Jesus was, the more we see how much sacrifice He did to love us. And we
00:03:22
Speaker
acknowledge that and then we go into that full surrender. The other one is almost like a forced surrender and that's if you've encountered something in your life that was just extremely traumatic or really the bottom of the barrel, the end of the rope, where you've hit your last straw and you go, I need full surrender to Jesus to get through this. And I have no doubt that Jesus brings us to that point oftentimes to give us that option to either
00:03:49
Speaker
turn away and run or to full surrender to his will. And so I actually had that moment in high school at 17. I had something pretty traumatic happen to me. And that was the moment in my life where I was no longer just saved saying the sinner's prayer, but I made Jesus Lord of my life. And I knew that every single decision in my life moving forward from that point, that he was my full surrendered Lord.
00:04:15
Speaker
I think those periods of being at the end of your rope are actually moments of grace because if you think about it, like a lot of people don't hit those periods in their life. So if you've ever had those periods or maybe you're in one of them or are soon to approach one of them and you kind of know it's coming, I feel like those are huge pieces of grace from God. It reminds me of like the screw tape letters.
00:04:41
Speaker
C.S. Lewis wrote the Screwtape Letters. It's almost like this satirical piece where he's giving advice as a lesser-ranked demon or something. And the lesser-ranked demon was so happy when World War II breaks out because that's when Lewis lived.
00:05:00
Speaker
Uh, and the other the older demons like no, this isn't good news We don't want them to go to war because war is like major life-changing events which drives them back to the enemy He says, you know Like it's those those things like well, we don't we don't want to have major things go on in their life We want them to just go as calmly and quietly Down to the pit where our father satan the rest you're like, oh my gosh
00:05:24
Speaker
Sometimes those moments are such gifts because it drives you back to the one, it drives you back to your maker, it drives you back to God.
00:05:30
Speaker
Oftentimes as Christians, we see those moments as a moment of punishment or neglect from the Lord. And really, it's a moment of opportunity because we have an opportunity to draw closer to Him in that moment. And so really, there's a lot of missed opportunities out there as people encounter these pretty tough times.
Discipline and Growth in Faith
00:05:51
Speaker
And they like to point the finger at God and say, you did this to me, you're causing this.
00:05:56
Speaker
Instead of really saying, Hey, you're my father and you can get me through this. Um, so there's a lot of missed opportunities in that desperation. One of the things I learned early on as a parent from this, this awesome parenting book called the love and logic kind of gave me this blueprint of, uh, saying, Hey, like when you've said not to do something, you've drawn the line in the sand back off.
00:06:21
Speaker
Let them cross said line and then deliver the consequence that you said that would come. Because if you just keep holding them back from the line, they're never really going to learn not to cross the line. And every time you're gone, well, they're going to cross over the line. So now I do it all the time with my kids, especially it's more of like, this is more for like toddlers and preschoolers. I mean, it applies upper too, but how you work through it is different.
00:06:42
Speaker
Um, but it's really easy when they're little because you're like, Hey, don't touch the thing. And then you back off. And what do they do? They touch the thing and then you deliver the discipline, right? Or whatever that might be. It might be time out. It might be something more, you know, but it's funny because in their, in their point of view, man, you're just bringing the discipline in my point of view. I'm like, this is training time. It will be hard for the day. But by tomorrow, after you do this seven times in a row,
00:07:11
Speaker
You'll be good. And then you'll understand why later on, why you weren't allowed to climb the bookshelf and fall over. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, it'll be way clearer to you later. Um, but I feel like that's how God disciplines with us and like brings those corrections to us. It's in his grace that he hones us in and I don't know, like puts hedges around us to drive us towards himself. But for those who haven't gotten to rock bottom and had a transformational moment like that,
00:07:39
Speaker
Um, having experienced that harsh grace of pushing us back to him. What do you think is holding people back from having that moment of surrender? I honestly believe it's, if it's a true, um,
00:07:53
Speaker
person who saved, I honestly believe comes down to how much they read God's word because it doesn't take that end of the rope, bottom of the barrel moment to achieve full surrender to Jesus. Really, it's just understanding how deep his love is for us. And once you realize that, it's like this undeniable love and you desire to be with him, you desire to spend time with him.
00:08:18
Speaker
And then you say, man, these other things in my life are getting in the way of my relationship with Jesus. And it's almost like a fun thing to get rid of these things that are distracting you between you and your first love. And so devoted time to scripture. This is speaking to the person listening to this. If you haven't hit in that full moment of surrender and you don't want to go down that road to where Jesus gets you to the full moment of surrender, you could do it voluntarily just by
00:08:44
Speaker
Submitting to read his word and committing every single day to fall more in love with him and really it's not us falling in love It's really realizing how much he loves us and then we pursue him with our heart and so Scripture reading honestly and then that time of prayer and just really having that intimate time of reading and prayer with him Do you think it's necessary to like really love reading scripture in order to read it and push towards that point? I
00:09:12
Speaker
Um, no, because sometimes I do not like doing my daily Bible study. And I know that sounds just terrible. You could record that and send it whoever you want. But sometimes I don't, sometimes I don't, um, I don't feel like I'm joyous about it. Um, but I'll sit down and read it. And after I read, I'll be like, man,
00:09:31
Speaker
almost like Lord that felt like a waste you know I really didn't get anything from that and then later in the day something just hits me in the side of the head and it's referring back to that scripture that I read in the morning and so even though you don't feel like you want to or even though you don't you make me feel like you're not getting something out of it his word never returns void and so we're putting it into our brain he's storing it he's using it
00:09:54
Speaker
He wants to reveal us something in the future or that day or maybe 10 years from now, but it's never a waste to dive into God's word. Even if you feel like you don't understand it, reading it alone is profitable for us.
00:10:08
Speaker
reading god's word is like one of those things where the more you do it the more you enjoy it the more you study it the more you get out of it the more you can just kind of casually open it up read it and be like huh that was refreshing i don't i like running um but most people hate running it's it's like if you're if you're not if you don't run a lot then every time you go out you're just you know you're sucking wind it's it hurts hurts your legs hurts your body your lungs are burning but once you get past that point
00:10:35
Speaker
I go to relax now and it's just fun.
00:10:42
Speaker
Mental no like moving meditation i've heard it called, you know, it's it's a point of refreshment and I feel like it's like that with the word though it probably doesn't burn as much as like running does to people who don't run but It's a it's a refreshing thing and a life-giving thing. Um, even though at first it's I don't know you're reading a book. That's pretty old. So I think it still actually holds pretty well at least a lot of it does right it reads pretty smooth but
00:11:07
Speaker
Right. It's like it's like anything you do for the first time. You're not going to be great at it. It's not going to feel natural. It's not going to necessarily feel good or you might be
Consistency in Spiritual Practice
00:11:16
Speaker
sore. Like after running, you might not quite understand it. But the more you do it, the more you start to realize and you start to make those connections in scripture when he says something in the Old Testament and then you read it in the New Testament.
00:11:27
Speaker
And it kind of gets adrenaline going when you make those realizations and then you go on Sunday and hear someone preach about it and you're like, oh man, I read that this week. And you start getting excited about God's word. And so the more you get excited about it, the more you get into it. But if you turn it away and you're not doing your reading and you're pushing that away, you'll grow complacent to not do it. And then that's those people that,
00:11:53
Speaker
that haven't fully surrendered because they're not really seeking him intimately. So I have certainly met some people that have just slowly but surely grow into a point of complete surrender. Though I still find for a lot of people it happens in a moment. There's like a specific time and it could be a point of salvation. It could happen at that point. It could also happen at oftentimes I find summer camps are really known for this. I don't know what it is. There's something about the power of a guest speaker.
00:12:22
Speaker
who comes in in a different environment and somehow pushes you to this point of complete surrender. They say the exact same thing that your pastor's been saying or your youth pastor's been saying, but when they say it, when you're surrounded by 200 other young adults your age wanting to love Jesus, I think the power of the Holy Spirit does some things in those moments to really get us to a point of surrender.
00:12:49
Speaker
And I will say it's probably better for the slow and easy one because, you know, things that are quickly one are also quickly lost, right? Because you can have somebody that has habit, a lifetime of habits working against them. So it's, it's much harder to hold to it. And there's going to be a lot more spiritual warfare afterwards of just their own flesh rebelling against the new surrender.
00:13:09
Speaker
Which probably goes into our next one of like those who have surrendered but then have come back Right. What do you think's holding people back once they've surrendered know they surrendered but now are living consciously With the fact that they're not at this formal point that they had been
00:13:26
Speaker
I think just at times losing focus, and if we look at this passage even, we saw it with Peter because Jesus presents a question to Peter and says, Peter, who do you say I am? And he says, well, you're the Christ. You're the son of the living God. And so at that point, Peter was much in tune with God. God was revealing that information to him.
00:13:46
Speaker
And then just a few verses later, a little time later, Peter's directly denying what God's saying. And so Jesus is saying, hey, I'm going to have to go suffer at the hands of many and die. And Peter was not in tune with God at that point. He obviously hadn't prayed about what Jesus had just said, and he wanted to spout off with his own will. And so Peter had just turned his eyes away from what God wanted and put it back on his own fleshly desires. And so you could see that change so quickly.
00:14:16
Speaker
And so that's why in some versions and different books when it's talking about this story, it says to deny yourself, take up your cross daily. And that's why we always say the verse that his mercies are new every single day. And because we have that opportunity to either fully focus on him every day.
00:14:34
Speaker
Um, or lose sight or lose, um, focus when a situation arises, um, when we hit heartache, um, whatever it may be. Um, we have to constantly realign and constantly focus on him. What do you think about those who kind of have this habit of like swinging back and forth? You know, they have this moment of up and they kind of slide down to a moment of another recommitment and they kind of slide down.
00:15:00
Speaker
What would be concerning for you to see that kind of lifestyle in a person and what can we do about it? Kind of like you said earlier with that a real rapid change of surrender that may be lost because there wasn't maybe some foundation to it.
00:15:18
Speaker
And so that waving back and forth, I've seen it many times and it's a dangerous habit because if you don't have that consistency, if you're waving back and forth, it's easy to just turn away and walk away.
00:15:33
Speaker
At the same time, you still can commit and focus and re-surrender. But someone who's easily persuaded back and forth between Jesus and the world, they haven't really experienced that full surrender, I don't think. Because if they did, they'd be more stable and more likely to commit to it. How do you get to that point? If you're that person who's kind of like, well, I feel like I've experienced surrender and there's been moments of surrender, but I've still gone back and forth.
00:15:58
Speaker
reading God's word, staying connected because I've seen it and it's real majorly evident in like a youth group because a teenager has so many things going on in their life. They could be super committed and then all of a sudden, boom, you haven't seen them in four or five weeks. And so they get distracted and they get this, but if you can convince them to daily stay in God's word, they have that connection.
00:16:24
Speaker
And then they're going to desire to come, come back and be there and be consistent. And so, um, really it comes to, I know it's like the Sunday school answer, but staying connected in prayer and staying in connected in your Bible reading, um, is a huge stabilization in our walk with Christ.
Practical Steps for Daily Surrender
00:16:41
Speaker
What are some things that make that easier? I think we had, that's exactly what we talked about on our last podcast. We did have a moment and really reference that last podcast. Cause we only, we talked, the whole podcast was how to make it, how to keep it stay, uh, stay in line essentially.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it's different for every single person. Some people drive a lot, and so they do a lot of prayer on the road or listening to God's Word through the Bible app. I think the absolute best way in general is in the morning when you wake up first part of your day. I believe that that is the most effective way, but we all have different work schedules. I worked nights, I worked through the night, and so it wasn't possible.
00:17:22
Speaker
And so whatever fits your life, as long as you're making it a priority, you're not fitting it into your life, you're having it control your life. And so whatever part of the day is best for you, especially if you're that night out and your brain is useless in the morning. But, you know, after 11 o'clock, you're really thinking that could be a good time for you to be really focusing on what God has for your life. So if you're listening to this and you're like, I've never had that dramatic moment. You don't need it.
00:17:50
Speaker
Sloan Steady's probably better anyway, but you can still make a decision and hear me say like,
00:17:57
Speaker
you can make you I don't know you I think there's just a moment where you have to sit down maybe with the pen and paper maybe in a journal or maybe in a quiet space consider what does it look like to give everything to go all in all your money and consider nothing I almost in my mind have to put my head in like I'm going full monk mode to where I would be happy with a rag on my back or nothing you know like if everything if I could give away everything that I have and am but
00:18:24
Speaker
just to give my whole life to serving Jesus. I'm like, just give me a mop, and I'll just mop all the floors of the church, and that would be the greatest joy. Then you're starting to get into that, at least for me, that when I'm starting to think like that, and it's like, it's all about serving other people, and forget me, I'm nothing. I'm a slave, and a happy one.
00:18:44
Speaker
then I'm starting to get into the mental mode of surrender. And there's other things probably in my life that need to be surrendered, but at least I'm starting to think in that right way, where it's not about me. It's about him and everybody else he loves.
00:18:56
Speaker
And if you're in a position where you're like, man, I know I'm following Jesus and I feel like I'm close to him and I'm committed, but I don't know if I've crossed that line of just full surrender.
Reflecting Surrender in Daily Life
00:19:06
Speaker
A way to gauge that is how different do you look in your workplace? How different do you look even compared to other Christians? And I'm not saying compare yourself, but are you really sacrificing a lot for the name of Jesus Christ?
00:19:22
Speaker
Are people against you in some situations? Because they should be. If you work in a secular place, there should be a little bit of conflict because of a way that you're handling yourself, or at least them acknowledging that you are different. They should be able to identify that you're a Christian without you telling them that you're a Christian.
00:19:42
Speaker
And so just kind of analyze your life and say, what area is my life? Do my kids think I'm a hard parent because I have these structures in place? And if they think you're kind of a borderline hard parent, then you're probably doing good at bringing scripture into the home and cutting things out for them. My kids have lost different things as far as streaming services because of full surrender, right? Because we don't want those things to enter into our house.
00:20:09
Speaker
And so just analyze your life and see how different you look from the world because we're supposed to stand out. If we're following Jesus, we're going to stand out like a sore thumb. I remember I had a conversation with a woman that I got to know through LinkedIn. It's a social media network for professionals. And we had talked on LinkedIn about work and marketing and stuff before.
00:20:30
Speaker
One time she was complaining and she actually messaged me. She's like, hey, because she knew I was a Christian, uh, from previous things I had posted. She's like, why do Christians always like have to feel like they have to get their Christianity out there? She's like, it's not even like preaching the gospel. It's like, Oh, God bless this. Or like, bless it. They, they, the Christians have a language like you oftentimes I'll be interviewing people on a podcast about marketing.
00:20:54
Speaker
And I'll be like, are you a believer? Cause like they use words that are just Christian words, like blessed or God or, or, you know, praying for help or little, little, there's little tells. Um, but thinking back to it, I'm like, you know, I'm like, I don't know why Christians do that. That was my thought. Then I'm like, I don't know. Christians have Christianity, Christian lingo. And now I'm like, yeah. And it's good because if your life's fully consumed by this, then.
00:21:21
Speaker
How would you not, if you're reading the Bible every day, how would the language of the Bible not make its way into your normal language? Yeah, absolutely. It would, and it would be hard to hold it back because just input output, right? You're feeding your brain and it's going to come back out, which is the whole point. If you give enough input, it'll come out on autopilot. It'll just wash your mind and all of a sudden you'll be repeating back those things and you'll be like, oh, shoot.
Conclusion and Call to Reflect
00:21:45
Speaker
I'm starting to sound like the Bible kind of like when you hang around with kids who are with people who have phrases I noticed my kids hang out with this a neighborhood kid and he he's has this really enthusiastic tone He's always like let's go Guess what? I hear my kids saying let's go and I've even started saying is just going around the house. I'm like, it's a phrase I don't know as he probably picked it up from the internet. I have no idea
00:22:07
Speaker
But it's that same kind of thing with the Bible. You spend more time in it, in your language, and once it's in your mind and in your language, it's probably going to follow in habits and practices too.
00:22:18
Speaker
Right. And you can consider that for the flip side as well. If your kids or yourself are watching TV shows that aren't good for you or hanging around with the secular world too much, you're going to start adopting their language and their beliefs. And so that's why it's so important to keep daily in God's Word is where really it's an input. It's an input. And so whatever gets the most input is going to which show in your output. And that's it.
00:22:48
Speaker
So thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I think it's been good to unpack what it means to be fully surrendered. You did well in the sermon, but to unpack some of the practicals around some of the different groups. If you're listening to this podcast and you're at this moment, consider thinking about it. Consider thinking about if you are fully surrendered, you can have a conversation. You can come talk to Kyle. You can come talk to any of the elders in the church about it. If you're wondering about it, it's good conversation to have with other believers.
00:23:18
Speaker
And if you've ever wondered, if you've heard other people talk about this and wonder about it, you can send them this episode and see what they think about it. But either way, thanks for listening to it. Remember, the mission of Grove Hill is to impact the life of every person with the whole gospel by any means possible. And that includes this very episode. So take it, share it, do something about it.
00:23:43
Speaker
But don't let it go by without actually thinking about how to surrender more to Christ in your life.