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Illegal Immigration, Public Schools, and Faith—The Christian Perspective You May Not Have Heard
64 Plays6 months ago
In this episode, Dan Sanchez, Ridley Barron, Jon Ballard, and Kyle Hess discuss several pressing issues from a Christian perspective, including the importance of intimacy with God, the complexities of illegal immigration, the role of Christianity in public schools, and the influence of Christian principles in government. They share personal stories about their spiritual journeys, explore how Christians can navigate hot-button topics like immigration and public education, and discuss the balance between upholding Christian values and respecting others' freedoms in a democratic society.
Timestamps:
00:01 Introduction and opening discussion
00:54 Sharing early experiences of intimacy with God
09:43 Exploring the Christian perspective on illegal immigration
16:02 Christianity in public schools: Rights and boundaries
22:19 The role of Christianity in government and theocracy discussions
28:23 Closing thoughts on applying Christian worldview to societal issues
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Transcript
Introduction and Technical Hurdles
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Dan Sanchez here. I just wanted to give a preface to the podcast that you're about to listen to. I actually interviewed Ridley, Kyle and John, but unfortunately Kyle's video feed, ah the software failed and it just didn't go through.
00:00:15
Speaker
So as you listen to this, the the I had to edit it down because his his his recording just wasn't there. So I edit it in such such a way that the make it so it still flowed pretty smoothly. But if you hear mention of Kyle and don't hear Kyle, well, it's because he talked and he had some great insights. But unfortunately, the software didn't come through. He's missing from the record.
00:00:38
Speaker
so He's kind of a ghost in this episode, but that's okay. We still love you, Kyle. um But here's the following episode with myself, Ridley and
Meet the Guests
00:00:46
Speaker
John. Welcome back to the Grove Hill podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez and I'm joined by Ridley, John and Kyle. And we have some hot topics for you today that we're going to be looking at, uh, from a Christian worldview, lots of interesting things to talk about. And it's going to be real fun. I just teed up, uh, these, these guys here with some, some topics. And, uh, I think I saw a few of them squirm in their chairs real quick. Cause they were thinking about how to answer said topics, but it's going to be
Intimacy with God: Ridley's Sermon
00:01:12
Speaker
a fun one. So stay tuned for the hot topics, but first,
00:01:14
Speaker
Want to go back to the the sermon that came out this last Sunday one of the things you mentioned Ridley was that every Christian really needs to pursue ah Intimacy with God and you were quick to under like specify the intimacy doesn't necessarily have to look like this feminine thing It's really just a closeness to God. It's really just a proximity to the Holy Spirit and his word um So I thought I'd open it up with ah story, like if each of you could share a story of an early memory of when you realize like this is what intimacy with God looks like. And I'd love to open it up with you, John.
John's Spiritual Journey
00:01:54
Speaker
I think back to between the summer between my junior and senior year in high school. And, you know, I grew up in a preacher's home. So I was very ah present with church and what, what a relationship with God looked like.
00:02:10
Speaker
but it never was a light bulb moment until then. I was at a church camp. I still remember almost the the placement where I was at, where the intimacy with God, it just became very much so a reality. And I realized that it wasn't the normal you know Sunday deal. It was it was an all encompassing journey that God was gonna take me on. And that was one of the beginning points to where God was intentionally placing on my heart, you know, through a lot of strong, influential people, the emphasis of a prayer life with Him, ah the emphasis that there needed to be some correcting in in my life at the time. And that became a very pivotal moment in my intimacy with God. And just going deeper, I think when we think of intimate, um we do think of that sacrificial part of our life
00:03:06
Speaker
and what what consumes our time. And at that point in my life, that was starting to become a consumption of God being a part of everything that I do. And really?
Ridley's College Experience with Faith
00:03:18
Speaker
So probably about the same timeframe as these guys are talking about, I accepted Christ at age eight and went through the rest of my growing up years pretty much walking alongside of God at a distance.
00:03:31
Speaker
um still following him, but really not seeking him, really not um ah really trying to find out what his heart was for certain things, those kinds of things. Then I got to the call to ministry in high school, strangely enough, even at a time when I wasn't really walking very closely to God, he broke through to that, got my attention. And so when I got to college, I was invited to serve as an intern at a very large church as a student minister.
00:03:59
Speaker
And as much as I tried to minister to those kids, I think that ministry ministered to my heart as much as anything. And the guy who was a head of that ministry, who was a very, very good friend and mentor to me through lots of stuff, began to talk to me about what it meant for me to align my heart with God's will. um And even though I'd read passages and probably heard sermons and central lessons about it, it really began to take on flesh for me as I watched him live that out. And even some of the kids in our group, some of the older kids who were going through that stuff. and so I began to experience a just a totally different kind of walk with Christ where i I literally, as I was exposing myself to his word and and praying more frequently and feverishly in my personal growth, I began to feel a different kind of relationship where i I could begin to feel, okay, this is what God would want in this situation. This is where God would desire me to act a certain way. And I could tell noticeable difference in my life. and
00:04:57
Speaker
it's It's been different ever since. I won't tell you that it has always been that consistent that I felt that way. There's been times where I kind of went back more to just walking at a distance from God. um But definitely can tell when I'm in the place of intimacy with him where I can just know the heart of God and what his mind desires from him.
Intimacy with God vs. Human Relationships
00:05:16
Speaker
<unk> funny that intimacy you often think about it as a feeling but it's it's it's one of the it's more than a feeling of course it's like that closeness and there was a trend in the stories of like having this ah dynamic thing going on kind of like in marriage you can feel when you're not being intimate because there might be a wall there you're like right next to each other but there's like an emotional wall between your Right. You're not having, you're not talking because something's wrong. Yes. that's Right. You're, you're but going about your lives or even going through the motions of what intimacy looks like, but you're not being intimate. And I kind of heard that in bits and pieces of all of your stories of this, like, I understand what is required here and I'm having, I'm wrestling with him. I'm going back and there's like a back and forth.
00:06:00
Speaker
in in the relationship. And that's ultimately, I think, what we should all be striving for to deepen our relationship with the God is our this back and forth. And oftentimes, you know, a little bit of sin causes us to throw up the wall ah that needs to be torn down. Yeah, it seems to me like the normal human marriage relationship is a very good reflection of the God follower relationship in that there are seasons where you're not on the same page and where you're You're not doing anything but communicating information back and forth, but there's no real communication going on. And um i you can you can sense, like at least I can, I can sense in my heart this dryness that's there when I am not at that place of intimacy. And like you said, it's not a feeling, it's ah it's it's the difference between knowing about the person you're talking to and knowing the person you're talking to.
Hot Topic: Illegal Immigration Debate
00:06:51
Speaker
So moving into some topics, I've been watching the news. There's all kinds of crazy stuff going on, all kinds of lies everywhere. You're like, Oh my goodness. I actually wanted to bring it in on three topics and how to think about them. Cause as we explore this election cycle coming up, there's all kinds of big topic issues and you know, the Democrats have their take on it and their Republicans have a different take on it, but often find as a Christian,
00:07:17
Speaker
there's a nuanced sometimes a middle sometimes it leans more one way usually leans more one way than the other. um But it's not either or it's something different in in and of it itself. So I wanted to go through three different topics and kind of get your your all's take on it.
00:07:33
Speaker
Starting with illegal immigration, it's been a hot topic for a while. Obviously over the last four years, it's been more and more. I've heard some Christians say, absolutely. Get rid of the illegal and immigration app altogether. Some say like, Oh, we should, we should be more open with our borders. The people groups are coming to us. We should serve and be loving and compassionate. It would be unchristian to block illegal immigrants from coming in where Do each of you stand on on this topic?
Christian Views on Immigration
00:08:03
Speaker
And we'll start with Kyle this time. ah Throw you in first. What about you, John? I liken it to the same thing, but I'll give a different illustration. I think what we do here at Groveville Church in seeing who comes in, and the fact that there are those
00:08:26
Speaker
questions that we need to ask that are so necessary ah to seeing the intentionality of someone before they enter in. I think the back end of that question, though, of what is our stance on illegal immigration, sometimes they've gotten past that point and they're here, so what do we do?
00:08:48
Speaker
Well, I think we have to give some credence to to government officials in saying that we need to follow God's law. And God says, hey, you need to render under Caesar. What is Caesar's? You need to follow this.
00:09:05
Speaker
that's been set in place by the government. But I think too, there's also opportunities in there to show compassion and love. um And I think that happens in various different ways. So yes, I believe there's a need for structure, but I also believe that if there's a ah scenario or a circumstance where we have the opportunity to love on someone one that has come here, even in the illegal way, that we have the right to obey, but also to show compassion.
00:09:34
Speaker
So I'm right there with these guys. I think if you go back to the Old Testament, God clearly delineated the idea that there would be nations that are separated from other nations. A nation without boundaries is not a nation. um So you have to have boundaries. You have to have permissions for those boundaries. I think maybe I'm a little simple minded, but the fact that we call them illegal immigrants probably should indicate to us there's a problem here. oh the The migrant, the immigrant who comes as as Kyle mentioned, and comes through the channels that are put out there for people to come through, absolutely bring them in. That's what made this nation a great nation. But this nation will not remain great if we continue to open the doors wide without any restrictions and allow the terrorist in, the one who's a freeloader who doesn't desire to have any kind of investment back into the country. They're just here to receive what the government wants to give them.
00:10:28
Speaker
um And then the same Old Testament that says there should be boundaries that every nation needs to be able to protect its own identity. That same same Old Testament says that God cares for the widows, the orphans, and the aliens, and that the aliens will always be a part of us and that we have a moral obligation to care for them, to love them, ah to treat them as we would want to be treated, to help provide for them.
00:10:52
Speaker
ah But then you go all the way over to the New Testament and the New Testament says very clearly, if a man does not live and work to take care of his family, then he shouldn't even eat. So I think as these people are integrated into our culture, the integration should come with an expectation. We expect you to contribute to this country just like anybody else is. And specifically what I'm addressing there is I don't think we should give handouts. I think we should give them jobs. I think we should put them to work because a man needs a purpose for living. And so what we do when we just hand them stuff and instead of giving them training to hand some kind of job, we just hand them stuff. We create quite frankly, slawfulness, laziness, and the Bible has much to say against both. So I feel very strongly. Yeah, let's,
00:11:40
Speaker
And in fact, I would even argue, let's widen the door for proper immigration. Let's figure out how to make it faster and and easier for people to come in through those doors. But man, this stuff of sneaking across the border from day one sounds to me like it's not what God would desire for our country.
00:11:58
Speaker
Finally, being a Christian, you can't be a Christian and not like law and structure because God is a God of law and structure. Yes, absolutely. So to throw out the laws is an unbiblical motion. You need to abide by the law. And I think that what I'm hearing everybody say is like, yes, like let's have more immigration, legal.
00:12:21
Speaker
Immigration let's make it easier simpler because gosh dang It takes a it takes a book to get into this country like you got a the amount of paperwork and costs that it takes I've actually sponsored somebody is a ah From an employer standpoint to get a work visa and it took eight months Three four thousand dollars in legal fees Wow and a ton of time on my part and his part did bring him over ah My feeling is Let's do away with the IRS, make them all go work in immigration and do a flat sales tax here in our country. We take care of all those issues. Wouldn't that be a dream?
Religion in Schools: Liberty vs. Indoctrination
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. oh ah Moving on to the next question.
00:13:02
Speaker
Christianity in public schools. I know it seems like an obvious like, of course, like read the Bible in every class. But at the same time, if yeah are we being fair, if we we don't want like progress, a lot of progressive values are pushing in schools, like we don't want drag queens, like gut like performing in high school gymnasiums, like we don't want some a lot of this stuff being thrown into libraries. Is it fair for us to push a Christian agenda if we're not allowing them to do the same, or at least we don't want to?
00:13:32
Speaker
We'll start with Ridley on this one. Here I am. I'm just going to be completely honest. um I think if you're going to talk about living in a country that provides liberty and freedom for all, then you have to provide liberty and freedom for all. um You can't tell the Christian that he can be bold with his Christian faith in the public school and not give the Muslim the permission to have that same thing.
00:13:55
Speaker
um But I think it comes with some common sense, some moral righteousness about it. While you tell the Hindu kid, yeah, you can have a moment of silence sitting at your table before lunch. You also have to have the guts to say to them, don't bring your depraved behavior in here and try to inflict it on kids. Don't force children to be a way that their parents tell them isn't right. um there there has to be What's happening in our schools isn't just immoral and unethical.
00:14:25
Speaker
It's being done under the premise that parents don't have a right to tell their kids how to live anymore. And that's wrong. That's always wrong. Ever, ever will always be wrong. So I feel like do we do we want Christianity in our schools? Absolutely. Every child should be ah allowed to live by their faith, should be allowed to talk about their faith without being afraid of it. I feel like if anything, it's been flipped the other way where everybody's got freedom to talk except for the Christian child nowadays and and they are feeling like they do not have the same freedoms in the classroom that most people do. Now, the other thing I would say very quickly and not want to take up all the time, um parents need to to give up this idea that their kids are missionaries in their schools.
00:15:09
Speaker
um Missionaries are called to live a certain lifestyle. And while your child might have a ministry to their friends or whatever, um your your five-year-old isn't old enough to be a missionary.
00:15:23
Speaker
and your seven-year-old isn't mature enough to be a missionary. Can they share Jesus with other people? Yeah, and in that sense, I guess they they technically are missionaries, but but sometimes I feel like as parents, we throw our kids out there in these vastly pagan kind of atmospheres and go, go be Jesus, good luck, you know? And um I think that's a hard place to put a teenager, or or even more importantly, an elementary age kid. John, moving over to you.
00:15:51
Speaker
I think in that same vein of thinking, I've got a five-year-old and a six-year-old, a kindergartner and a first grader that are going to public school. I've actually seen both ends of the spectrum. I've attended Christian school ah as my childhood went through you know kindergarten through fifth grade and then attended a public school six through 12. So I've seen both ends of that and agree wholeheartedly ah agreee wholeheartedly with you, Ridley, that We can't send our kids to public school and act like they're going to be the ones doing the indoctrinating. It's usually the other way around because we have adults.
00:16:32
Speaker
that are the teachers that have preset things that are right in front of them that are gonna do the indoctrinating. So again, we have to say, let us allow liberty, but liberty for all. um And yes, that will stand up and test some of the faith of our kids in public school. But Christianity in public school,
00:16:57
Speaker
I think there are definitely places that we as believers need to help insert that. I think it starts at the home, though, in Deuteronomy 6, where parents are generationally putting this in into effect, and that's how we get Christianity in the public schools. so It's never going to be a full on Christianity ah seminar in every one of our public schools. We just have to know that there are elements of that that we can see inserted. But yeah, that it's not going to be one of those full on our kids being surrounded by that continuously. her So with all your answers to this question, I kind of have a sense of where we're going with the next question.
Is the U.S. a Christian Nation?
00:17:45
Speaker
like
00:17:46
Speaker
I talked to them about even in the the before we even started recording. um How do you feel about Christianity and its role in the government? and Some people make the case that the US should lean towards a theocracy because it's founded on Christian principles.
00:18:04
Speaker
but still fight for freedom of religion so that anybody can practice freely without any any harm coming to them or them being like cut out of certain parts of society. Are you for that? are you where Where do you kind of side with that? Because there's many shades of gray in in that kind of a statement. And we'll kick it off with you this time, Kyle. I think we would be naive to think that a theocracy is going to deepened spiritually the nation as a whole. I don't think that it's it's going to... Again, i I prayed just like Kyle said for godly leaders, but we know good and well that
00:18:49
Speaker
um the the Christianity that we see that is mainstream is not healthy, so to speak. I think there are pockets of Christianity that are very um effective in your own spiritual walk. You see you know that here and there, but I think you get almost communistic and dictatorship-esque whenever you start to enforce a religion or a theocracy. I think you see some traces of Catholicism ah where some of that started in Europe and you start to see, man, if you're forcing this sense of ah religion, I think it brings some um less intimacy what it for what it really means to have a relationship with Christ.
00:19:38
Speaker
But yes, I do think that, man, praying for godly leaders, praying for ah godly oversight from the city all the way to the national level is definitely our best route. And I think that God honors that. But yeah, definitely thinking in that vein. So I kind of agree with them on on all things. ah I mean, probably what I'm going to say doesn't surprise anybody who knows me.
00:20:02
Speaker
A forced religion, absolutely not. and That's not what any of us desire because forced faith is not genuine at all. ah But I think every Christian at heart should desire a theocracy in the sense that that's what the Old Testament was before the people demanded a king. it was It was a nation that served under one true God and he desired to be their shepherd and they would be his people. If you go all the way back to the founding of the United States, ah let's go ahead and shoot down the myth that we're not a Christian, we're founded on Christian principles.
00:20:31
Speaker
I think it was 54, the 56 guys who sound signed the original Declaration of Independence um were guys who believed in the one true God and sought him as their leader. um In the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the name of God is mentioned several times. In fact, the Declaration of Independence ends with a private prayer to the God of the universe to bless this nation. So all this baloney about us not having Christian principles and not being founded on Christian principles should be thrown away.
00:20:59
Speaker
I think it was Alexander Hamilton who said that the Constitution that we were given to run the United States of America was only going to work for a nation that believed in a God and chose to serve that God. And I think that's why today we see so many people pushing back against the Constitution because the Constitution serves the people who seek truth and we no longer seek truth in this country. And that's the problem. we We're not going to work with the Constitution we've got.
00:21:22
Speaker
All that to say, man, I wish we could be one nation under God following God. I wish we could get back to the Christian principles we've got, but I wish it would happen because this nation experienced revival, not because anybody was forced to do it. I'm kind of with you, Ridley. I'm like, yeah, like theocracy light. It's kind of what what the constitution is.
00:21:46
Speaker
it's not It's not like the UK, where they have Anglicanism tied into the the state, which is what they were exactly trying to get away from. If we can probably just say this was a Christian nation, but that everybody has the freedom to decide whether or not they're going to follow Christ or not, which I think is what originally we had, ah then then I'd be okay with that. if you if you If you want to turn your back on Jesus and do that, that's fine, but you're going to live under the Christian laws that ruled this nation the way it's meant to be.
00:22:12
Speaker
man And then that's why a lot of people are calling for the the re rewriting of the constitution because it's obvious that it's there and it's hard to take out. yeahp if You're like, well, you find it was mounted on this thing, mostly. But interesting to hear everybody's perspectives on this.
Conclusion and Reflections
00:22:28
Speaker
And it's been fun covering these hot topics. Hopefully if you're listening to this, you've I don't know, dove into some things and ah in a deeper sense that maybe you you've experienced before, learned about how to think about it from a Christian worldview, from a Christian perspective. So gentlemen, thank you for joining me today, and I look forward to talking to you again all next week. Thanks, Dan.