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Abortion: Should It Be Allowed With IVF, Rape, Incest, or Danger to the Mother?
48 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, Dan Sanchez, along with Pastors Ridley Barron, Kyle Hess, and Jon Ballard, tackled the sensitive and complex issues surrounding abortion, IVF, and birth control from a biblical perspective. They discussed the challenges of adhering to a pro-life stance while addressing situations like rape, incest, and the health risks posed to mothers. The conversation also explored the ethical implications of IVF and the nuances of birth control methods, urging listeners to ground their beliefs in scripture and extend grace to those who have faced these difficult choices.
Timestamps:
00:01 Introduction to the topic of abortion and the need for a deeper discussion.
01:41 Ridley Barron discusses Grove Hill's pro-life stance.
02:47 Kyle Hess shares insights from youth group discussions on abortion.
06:27 The ethical debate surrounding IVF and its implications.
12:28 Discussing the gray areas and exceptions around abortion.
18:05 Addressing societal and cultural influences on abortion perspectives.
25:18 Exploring the controversy and ethics of birth control.
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Transcript
Introduction and Importance of the Topic
00:00:01
grovehillchurch
Hello, and welcome back to the Grove Hill Church podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez, and I'm joined with the guys, again, Kyle, Ridley, and John to talk about a sensitive topic, but a topic that I felt needed to be covered is inspired by Kyle's youth group session, where we had a, I'd say, more more delicate conversation around the topic of abortion.
00:00:24
grovehillchurch
And I felt like it was a really great conversation that we had with the youth group around the generalities of it. Of course, it was very straightforward.
00:00:30
Jon
Okay.
Biblical Stance on Abortion
00:00:33
grovehillchurch
We didn't get into some more of the harder details around abortion, but made it very clear what the biblical stance on abortion was.
00:00:34
Jon
Okay.
00:00:41
grovehillchurch
but in that meeting while I was sitting there with the youth and having conversations about some of it, I remember thinking we need to do a podcast about this and dive into some of the nitty gritty dive into some of the harder conversations and.
00:00:56
grovehillchurch
around some of the shades of gray because it's an abortion in this topic around life. It can seem very black and white all the time and it usually it pretty much is, but there are a few shades of gray that are worth talking about and getting clarity on because there's a few circumstances.
00:01:12
grovehillchurch
that are going around. It's also a very relevant conversation in the society today because of politics. this Abortion has become like one of the top topics that both parties are fighting over and talking about. so I figured it's on people's minds. We should probably talk about it and dive into the nitty gritty. so Thanks, gentlemen, for diving into it with me.
Emphasizing Grace and Pro-Life Standpoint
00:01:30
grovehillchurch
To open it up, Ridley, I'd love to hear your thoughts on abortion in general. like What's your official stance? Where does Grove Hill sit as far as abortion?
00:01:39
Ridley
Well, I think you always have to start off with the the offering of grace for those who have ever crossed that line and have been forced into those choices. Whichever way you went with your choice, just just a real heart of compassion for women and men who have to make these choices.
00:01:57
Ridley
And I always want to be careful to emphasize men because we focus so much on women. There is indeed an attachment that a father has towards a child that you have to be aware of.
00:02:01
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:02:05
Ridley
But as far as a stance, I think this church is unequivocally a pro-life church, a church that stands on the idea that every life, no matter how imperfect it might be or how imperfect the conception of that life might seem to somebody, that every life is important and is formed by the distinct purpose of God. And because of that, every life matters and abortion is wrong for those who want to follow after God.
00:02:32
grovehillchurch
I thought I'd kick it over to you, Kyle. What led to this conversation coming up? I know we have a series of cultural conversations that are becoming up through the youth group, but what got this one started?
Cultural Lies and Scriptural Counters
00:02:43
Kyle
Yeah, so our sermon series on Wednesday nights right now is truth. Our students are being fed lies from every which direction, and not only fed them, but crammed down their throats. And then if they don't believe them, then they're shamed into thinking that they're wrong. And so the whole basis of this series was to kind of clear the air. There's so many lies floating around.
00:03:05
Kyle
that even as a student raised in the church they might start to wander into those areas where culture is saying this is okay. And so obviously we're going to hit some of the hot topics today that students are dealing with and I thought I'd kick it off with a doozy and just go straight with the abortion side of things. And so Dan as you were there you saw too my first exercise of the night was to have them test their knowledge of what the world says is okay an okay reason to have an abortion.
00:03:36
Kyle
And I was thinking the students were going to give us maybe five or six. And we we filled a giant white board.
00:03:40
grovehillchurch
home is a busy lot.
00:03:42
Kyle
We had over 25 reasons. And these are students from sixth grade to 12th grade. And so the world is feeding them this for sure. And so for us to pause and stop and say, okay,
00:03:50
Ridley
Yeah.
00:03:53
Kyle
What does scripture say? I brought up two scriptures on that Wednesday night, and it basically debunks all 25 or 28 that they came up with reasons that society says it's okay. So I wanted to stick to the truth of it. Obviously, it's a sensitive subject, so we had sixth graders all up to 12th graders. So I just stuck to scripture and the truth of God's word when it came to this argument. But like you said, Dan,
00:04:16
Kyle
and There's many areas you can dive much deeper into this when you're in not such a sensitive group of of students.
00:04:23
grovehillchurch
John, where do you where do you land on this topic?
Personal Stories and Medical Industry Criticism
00:04:26
grovehillchurch
Have you had, I don't know, experience working working with this topic before?
00:04:34
Jon
I can say even from an experience of walking alongside friends who have been in that, who have followed through with abortion in their own life, whether it's been themselves or whether it's been a close family member, because I think we could probably go around any of our circles and say, Oh, I knew this person, they were going through it.
00:04:56
Jon
They ended up going through with it or they're contemplating it right now.
00:05:00
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:05:01
Jon
and, It does, it's impacting in every single circle throughout you know our country. It's been sadly advertised as a resource in a a medical sense for you know the last, I don't know, 50 some odd years or even more. And it's just sad to see how that has become just reiterated time and time again as a medical resource versus, you know, you look at the nitty gritty of it. We know what scripture says about life and how valued it is, but it's sad to see how the medical industry and people with the agendas
00:05:45
Jon
that try to pose abortion as this, you know, benefit whenever you even look to the science of it, and it goes against everything that the body states and how they perform abortions, all these things.
00:06:00
Jon
So yeah, I would say it's been a very evident thing and in my own life, seeing it from people that I've been close to.
00:06:00
Ridley
Yeah.
00:06:06
Jon
And again, it's it's a tough situation, but we as believers have to press into that. Speak about it.
Ethics of IVF and Alternatives
00:06:14
grovehillchurch
So with the current conversation taking place in politics, the the topic of IVF or in vitro fertilization has been a major conversation with Trump leading the way and saying that government should be paying for it. And it's raised a lot of concern on social media from a lot of number of religious leaders around the ethics and even morality of IVF. weirdly where Where do you stand on IVF? And have you dug a lot into the the topic of in vitro?
00:06:44
Ridley
I have not dug into it very much, although I do have family and friends who have actually gone through the process as an option for for them. I've been listening to the conversation thus far and we keep using words like an emotional subject and a sensitive subject. And this is where I think probably we need to be reminded that if we trust the word of God, then it takes the emotion out of this. it It makes it very clear what needs to be done in obedience versus what doesn't need to be done.
00:07:15
Ridley
And to both of the points that were just made with was Kyle and John, all you got to do is look at the language in which things are couched, how they they they describe it as a woman's right to choose, but they don't talk about the life that's inside the woman.
00:07:31
Ridley
They talk it about reproductive rights. Well, this has nothing to do with reproduction. This is all murder. So that's they misname things in order to keep feeding the lie and to misdirect our emotions and our thoughts.
00:07:41
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:07:44
Ridley
So back to this question of IVF, you know, the state of Alabama just recently ruled that this was it was unethical treatment because in the process of IVF, you are literally creating
00:07:56
Ridley
millions of embryos is what you're doing as part of this process. And as those of us who call ourselves pro-lifers, we have to decide, okay, do we really mean that when when a sperm and an egg come together, that that is a human life? Because if that is the case, then the process of in vitro fertilization actually is millions of abortions being carried out on a regular basis.
00:08:20
Ridley
and And in that case, as much as we want to be kind and compassionate and offer an alternative to people who cannot have children, IVF may not be the best answer because it goes against the command, do not kill. And maybe, and I cannot understand all the emotions that go with the woman who desires to have a child. I can only speak to a man in that regard.
00:08:42
Ridley
But maybe it's God's way of saying, you know what? I've got lots of children in this world that are unwanted. Maybe you're the one to take up that mantle rather than having children by natural processes. Or, in this case, not really natural, but scientific processes. So, IVF is a delicate subject, but I still think it falls under the category of there the ending of a human life that was started at the very beginning by God's intent.
00:09:07
grovehillchurch
have a friend where a mutual friend was trying to warn her about in vitro but she walked away saying like you know i'm go I'm gonna stick to my own research kind of brushing it off kind of like hey don't challenge me I'm I i think I'm gonna go through with this and I don't want to think about that
00:09:18
Ridley
Yeah.
00:09:22
Ridley
Uh huh.
00:09:24
grovehillchurch
Is a kind of a way we can get into as believers kind of like still hold the Christianity but still kind of like I think I don't want they want to understand I'm just gonna leave it as fuzzy But the more and more I've looked into IVF the more I'm like, you know The way they do it is by fertilizing lots of embryos taking a winter and then implanting it into either you or a surrogate mother which it It's hard because like your heart breaks for when they're you're not able to conceive conceive a child and that's just a really difficult, difficult thing.
00:09:53
Ridley
Yes.
00:09:57
grovehillchurch
but I kind of side with you is kind of like, well, we'll have to look at other options. Another thing that I hear, uh, some Christians say is like, we can't, we can't play God and we have to give these things up to control to him. I know a lot of my Catholic brothers and sisters kind of lean that way with many topics related to life and health. and I'd say it's a fairly safe route to go. Does anybody have any thoughts around?
00:10:23
grovehillchurch
like using the theological argument that stick to what's natural because that's the way God created things kind of an argument.
00:10:31
Kyle
I would say you're you're good as long as you stick to scripture. we we get to fill We like to fill in those blanks and say, like your your friend did, I'm going to stick with my research.
00:10:35
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:10:41
Kyle
I can research anything I want and find a stance on it on the internet and find research to back it of some sort. you know May it be true or not, but we have to go along how God created and God designed.
00:10:54
Kyle
and you have to You have to really cut out the personal desire because ive if I have a personal desire to have a kid, I may go to lengths that aren't biblical to get there. And so as far as detailing out everything, I would say as long as you're lined up with what God's word is is saying, then you're good.
00:11:20
Ridley
Yeah, I'm not against using science and medicine where it's beneficial, but it's only beneficial so far as it carries you up to the to the words of the Bible. When it starts to cross those paths, I think science no longer is an option. I think we have to stick with what God has commanded us, no matter how uncomfortable it makes us feel or how much it counters the desires that we have in a human heart.
00:11:42
grovehillchurch
I'd love to talk into some of the shades of gray around abortion and in general and when, when it it is okay.
Complexities and Gray Areas in Abortion Debate
00:11:48
grovehillchurch
I mean, it's, we all know it's like, it's, it's not okay, but there's some exceptions for when, I don't know.
00:11:55
grovehillchurch
I don't know how to describe this, but it's like, abortion's always bad, but there's some instances where it might, might be okay.
00:12:02
Ridley
Seems more acceptable to some people, yeah.
00:12:03
grovehillchurch
Permissible.
00:12:04
Kyle
So, Dan, one of the questions I asked the students on that Wednesday night was after we had put all the reasons that the world says it's okay, I asked them, which one is the most convincing argument for you?
00:12:05
Ridley
Yeah.
00:12:12
grovehillchurch
Yeah. Yep.
00:12:16
Kyle
And they had said rape. Rape was the most convincing argument because that's the one that they could empathize with and most understand
00:12:19
grovehillchurch
Yep. Yeah.
00:12:24
Kyle
And then I said, now that we know the truth of God's word, how does that argument stand up against the truth of God's word? And God's word clearly states that a baby in the womb is a baby and a human.
00:12:37
Kyle
And God's word clearly states that we shouldn't murder. And so even the best argument that the world has or the grayest area, incest, rape, whatever it may be,
00:12:44
Ridley
Mm-hmm.
00:12:48
Ridley
Mm
00:12:48
Kyle
It doesn't stand up to the truth of God's word. And although unfortunate, although just situations that are so traumatizing, we still can't dismiss the truth of God's word.
00:12:51
Ridley
-hmm.
00:13:03
grovehillchurch
It's good stance. And I've certainly seen testimonies from those who were, you know, essentially babies from rape, but then were adopted and grew up to have lives. And they're saying like, my life matters. And you're like, true story.
00:13:15
Kyle
Right.
00:13:15
Ridley
Yeah.
00:13:15
Kyle
Everybody who's pro-abortion has already been born, right? And so they take that stance because they're here on earth and that baby who who's being aborted isn't getting that chance.
00:13:20
grovehillchurch
no Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:28
grovehillchurch
Yep.
00:13:29
Ridley
Well, and I think one of the things that's brought this argument to the forefront is the the rising in a public conversations in our culture. regarding the Me Too movement, which has really put a highlight on the problems with rape and sexual assault. But even there, I just was reading recently that the numbers on what those things are where that's happening in our culture have been blown way out of proportion, that what we're seeing is not really an increase in sexual assault and and at the rate that they profess.
Impact of Social Movements and Sovereignty of God
00:13:58
Ridley
but it's actually an increase in causing women to believe it is sexual assault. So there's there's there's a lot of lies built around this, and i I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but there's a whole lot of lies that feed the lies that are feeding the abortion movement.
00:14:04
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:14:14
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:14:14
Ridley
And I just feel like to Kyle's point, the Bible is very clear that before each of us were even in our mother's womb, God knew we would exist.
00:14:25
Ridley
To say that a child that is born as a result of rape is a problem is is not to recognize God's divine and sovereign hand in that plan. Even though it may not be the most ideal beginning, even that life could could be incredibly important.
00:14:43
grovehillchurch
Well, let's keep going down because rape was the, was, was the most convincing one on the whiteboard, but they left off too. We mentioned one and then I'm going to get into the last one, but incest is a different, different from rape because now we are dealing with not. Not just an emotionally challenging situation. We're dealing with a physically challenging situation or a potential for a physically challenging situation. Any comments on this one?
00:15:07
Kyle
I'm gonna say the exact same thing that I did with the last one. and We could take that argument, and if we just mirror it against God's word, it does not stand. So you can you can try to convince anybody of it, but if we go back to the truth of God's word and we believe that it's inerrant, and we we we do, then no argument against or for abortion can stand. And I'm gonna stand right there.
00:15:34
Jon
I'm the same way. I think that in those areas, whether it's, you know, and you could go down the list, you could probably add a couple other factors to the, well, what if? I think you mentioned the gray areas, and I think scripture keeps pointing to there's this side and there's this side. And I think, yes, although there are gray areas in our mind, I think scripture continues to illuminate.
00:16:02
Jon
the intentions of humanity and whether it's self-serving or Christ-serving.
00:16:09
Ridley
Uh-huh.
00:16:09
Jon
And that's gonna be anything you go with whenever you talk about this hot topic.
00:16:13
Ridley
Alright.
00:16:15
Jon
Is is it serving the mission and the the operation of Jesus Christ being glorified in my life, even in those sticky situations?
00:16:29
Kyle
yeah and dan i'd like Dan, I'd like to bring something up.
00:16:29
Ridley
Topics like this. Go ahead.
00:16:33
Kyle
We're talking about the the most convincing areas, but one of the biggest impacts from Wednesday night that I had was how many of the like super selfish reasons that the kids brought up were good reasons.
00:16:48
grovehillchurch
Hmm.
00:16:49
Kyle
They were mentioning how parents are not seeing the gender they want and getting an abortion.
00:16:51
grovehillchurch
Yep.
00:16:55
Kyle
After 3D ultrasounds, not having the facial features that they are expecting. and have an abortion. And so there's no line that you have to say that you're doing it for a certain reason when you go into Planned Parenthood.
00:17:07
Kyle
So a parent can be literally having an abortion for any reason they want. Maybe they wanted their baby's birthday to be in December and it's not going to happen and so they're going to try again next year. so if, if we can, if their, their ideas, is if they can convince the big ones, the little ones aren't even an option.
00:17:22
Kyle
and it was sad to see how many of those petty reasons, the students were being fed were reasons, good reasons to have an abortion.
00:17:22
grovehillchurch
Yep.
00:17:31
Ridley
yeah topics like this that to me are addressed very clearly for us in scripture are only made gray because of our attempts to circumvent the scripture
00:17:39
Kyle
Hmm.
00:17:40
Ridley
It's always black and white, but we want to do, as John said it, to do the what ifs.
00:17:41
Kyle
Hmm.
00:17:45
Ridley
Well, what if this, like God hasn't already thought about that before he gave us his word. God knew that we would have these arguments, both the the petty ones that Kyle just mentioned, as well as these that seem to be the more acceptable and convincing.
00:17:58
Ridley
What if the mother's life is in danger? Don't you think God knew that when he formed that child? And so the irony is that we use arguments like that to say, well, let's take a chance on saving the mother by definitely killing a child. That makes no sense. that's That's illogical. And that's the arguments that we're using to try to counter God's word. That's how far we've slipped on this subject. The church is even beginning to apologize. Churches that were once very, very strong and very adamantly pro-life are trying to compromise. Well, let's let's think about those what-ifs. Let's think about how we can accommodate that.
00:18:32
Ridley
And I would argue that the Church's job is not to try to rewrite the Word of God, it is to actually live out more critically the Word of God by being kind and compassionate and loving to people who go through these circumstances. It's not the unpardonable sin.
00:18:49
grovehillchurch
So I think it's pretty clear on rape. I think it's pretty clear on incest because like you said with incest, it's a slippery slope from designer baby to incest to, you know, it's going to be deformed without a limb or as a, you know, on the spectrum.
00:18:57
Ridley
<unk>
00:19:00
Ridley
you know
00:19:05
grovehillchurch
like there's all kinds of ways and different things that you can know for sure ahead of time, but none of those are good excuses to abort a life. Now, the one you just mentioned, Ridley, is the last one I want to talk about because I think this is the hardest one of all.
00:19:17
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:19:17
grovehillchurch
And it's when they know the mother's life is at danger. And of course, that's a slide it's a slippery slope too because it can go from mental health on one end to it's a baby stuck in the fallopian tube and is guaranteed to kill both of them, right?
00:19:21
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:19:35
grovehillchurch
So you have a spectrum here.
00:19:36
grovehillchurch
And where where do you land on this one? Because then like and this hasn't happened to Amy yet, but it has happened to close friends of ours. so especially the fallopian tube scenario. where do we land on that?
00:19:47
Ridley
Well, I'm going to repeat my friend, Kyle. I land in the same place. And here's why. A couple of reasons I would give you. Number one, science is not nearly as smart as it thinks it is. And so if a doctor tells you there's a chance the woman may be in danger, that's a chance. There's also a chance she's going to live 40 more years and have a very happy life. Are you willing to roll the dice on that?
00:20:09
Ridley
Secondly, I have actually lived through this. My first wife with our first child developed some bleeding. We went to a doctor. We were actually out of town at summer camp. We were student ministers at the time. and We were at a summer camp with a bunch of kids and the doctor said, you've got an issue that's going on here. We may have to abort the child or her life may be in danger. And she and I prayed about it and said, no, we feel very confidently that God god has this all under control.
00:20:35
Ridley
We got back to Nashville, Tennessee and had her checked, and what seemed to be bleeding that was causing the possible endangerment of her life was nothing more than the subchorionic hematoma, which is a place on the outside of the womb.
00:20:46
Ridley
The doctor had it 100% wrong, and I almost ended the life of my first child on the chance that he had right information. So until a doctor can tell me 100% of the time he's gonna be right 100% of the time, I choose to trust the God who's right every single time.
00:20:59
Kyle
Sure.
00:21:01
grovehillchurch
like there are certainly cases, but there are cases where they do now, or maybe, maybe is it, is it fully unknowable? Maybe I don't know enough about the topic.
00:21:08
Ridley
No, I do think there's probably some opportunities where doctors, because of technology and breakthroughs and stuff like that, have have a greater likelihood of knowing. But I mean, you know, we can sit here and talk for hours about stories.
00:21:20
Ridley
We know facts where people should be dead by all counts, but for some reason they're alive.
00:21:25
grovehillchurch
Sure.
00:21:27
Ridley
Well, I believe that some reason is God. I think God knows the number of days of our children, of our wives, of ourselves. that's who we're supposed to be trusting in, in these situations. And that, that's just my thoughts, my opinion.
00:21:40
grovehillchurch
Any other thoughts?
00:21:41
Kyle
Yeah, these situations are not light-hearted. They're intense. My wife and I had a discussion before we even decided to move forward with getting pregnant and of any sorts.
00:21:45
grovehillchurch
yeah
00:21:46
Jon
Thank you.
00:21:53
Kyle
And we had the discussion that if this came up, what would we decide? And we decided we'd put it in the hands of God.
00:21:59
Ridley
Amen.
00:21:59
Kyle
And so the scripture is true. But sometimes when we're in a situation, our mind can be swayed either way because of our personal desires. And so Ridley says that all the time, you don't decide to be sexually pure when you're in the back of a car with a girl. You decide beforehand and make that decision according to God's word. And then when you're in that thick of it, you're like, man, we've prayed about this. We've made the decisions. We know how we're going to proceed in this situation, regardless of where our emotions are at right now.
00:22:29
Kyle
So that's an approach we took. I had a student come up to me after Wednesday night. He said, hey, my sister was in the womb, was found out she was having developmental disabilities. And the doctors told my mom to abort her. And he said, we we came home and we read Psalms 139, which is, you formed me in in my mother's womb.
00:22:49
Kyle
And he said, we we just proceeded on. And in tears, he said, I can't imagine my life without my sister, even in her current state with her developmental disabilities. And so a decision you might make on a whim, if left in God's hands, he's going to do amazing things with it, regardless of what the outcome is.
00:23:06
Ridley
That's right. That's right.
00:23:11
Jon
Yeah, I really, this may be steering to the right a little bit and going to a certain course, but Kyle, you made me think of something. I have just lost in 2020 my great uncle who had Down syndrome. One of those things that it's an element of question of whether some people would wanna keep a child or not. They had estimated his,
00:23:38
Jon
time of living to be maybe somewhere in the 20 to 30 year range. He made it to his mid 60s. And I think just time and time again of how it's not always going to be this hard and fast evidence that they give it. A lot of it is speculation.
00:23:59
Jon
And it's amazing how we will base our decisions on speculation and we don't base it upon the solid, firm foundation that's God's word and how He can bring glory
00:24:05
Ridley
Mm hmm.
Birth Control Ethics
00:24:11
Ridley
Yep.
00:24:12
Jon
out of any situation, even in those difficult seasons of trying to figure out what you should do and what it looks like whenever you face these difficult abortion-like topics.
00:24:27
grovehillchurch
So to finish it off with probably the most controversial part of all, as as if I haven't been throwing like speed balls the whole time and curve balls. Have you guys ever dug into birth control as a as a way that babies are essentially aborted?
00:24:47
Ridley
this This is an area to me that I'm a little bit more open to because I do not see it as the ending of a life. I see it as the preventing of that life starting in the first place. So the the normal forms of birth control that we've seen over the past years, I don't have a problem with that as planning, planning for a family, those kinds of things.
00:25:12
Ridley
The new forms of birth control, the day after pill, those kinds of things that again are technically ending a life, absolutely, 100% against. But for the use of some kind of contraceptive or or something of that or a birth control pill that prevents the baby from being formed, I think that's an option where science gives us the ability to choose before the mistake is made how do we want to proceed with our lives.
00:25:20
grovehillchurch
Uh huh.
00:25:36
grovehillchurch
You know, Amy and I started off with the pill and then we learned because we were pretty, pretty subtly pro-life and even advocating a brain in front of abortion centers and stuff with the life tape when that was more of a thing.
00:25:49
grovehillchurch
And then we found out from somebody that that a lot of birth control has multiple mechanisms to keep a baby from happening. Like if it doesn't stop the pregnancy, then one of the ways birth control is ending is is ending the embryo.
00:26:01
Jon
Thank you.
00:26:03
grovehillchurch
Kind of like a day after tomorrow pill is like a precautionary thing.
00:26:06
Ridley
Hmm.
00:26:07
grovehillchurch
Now it's hard to know because I think a lot of this stuff kind of flies under the radar. No, if it's true, then they don't like to publish it. So it's kind of like, I almost feel like I'm jumping off into conspiracy theory because it's hard to find solid evidence for it.
00:26:19
Ridley
Right.
00:26:19
grovehillchurch
I've heard that if you want to look for it, you'll find it from doctors, like on YouTube videos, but it's kind of like one of those things where it's, it's, it's a little bit more difficult to discern and actually find enough reliable information to make, make a choice on.
00:26:31
Ridley
Yep.
00:26:33
grovehillchurch
But we haven't done it since then because of the possibility of it.
00:26:37
Ridley
Yep. And that's why I said I lead, that's one of the areas where I kind of leave myself open. I don't know enough about those. I don't know enough about those kinds of things. but as it was mentioned earlier, the time to decide whether or not you want a child is before you decide to participate in the act of sex.
00:26:52
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:26:52
Ridley
That's when you make the decision beforehand. So, I, I absolutely huge respect and understanding for Christian families who say, we don't want to participate any kind of contraceptive because we're going to trust God to decide when the child needs to be born and when not to.
00:27:09
Ridley
But i also, I leave room for that just because to me, based on the the science, the medicine, I know there are mostly preemptive rather than responsive with these birth control methods.
00:27:13
Jon
you
00:27:26
Ridley
You guys have a different thought.
00:27:26
grovehillchurch
Calgion.
00:27:28
Kyle
i I would align right with that. i don't I don't know enough about the medical side of each pill to speak to him or anything like that, so I'm going to have to keep my mouth shut on that one.
00:27:40
Jon
I'm probably in the same same line of thinking with you,
Education, Compassion, and Reevaluating Beliefs
00:27:42
Jon
Kyle. Yeah, it's gotta be one of those, and I think this also brings up another topic.
00:27:50
Jon
We as believers have to educate ourselves whenever it comes to topics like these of walking alongside, maybe if it's not us, if it's somebody that's right next to us,
00:28:02
Jon
questioning what that looks like.
00:28:03
Ridley
No.
00:28:04
Jon
we We need to go down that road of educating ourselves and sometimes seeing the ugly side of what the medical industry is offering is, like I said earlier, that option.
00:28:14
Jon
Because sometimes it should never be an option that's on the table.
00:28:18
Ridley
Yeah. and And to me, guys, I know you would agree that the the real real backbone of this conversation is the grace of God that covers all of us. We've got ladies and and guys in our congregation who have been parts of abortion, who've had to make those choices for whatever reasons they felt were important to them. While I do not support are or suggest by any means that they get some kind of exemption to the commands of God,
00:28:49
Ridley
I do believe it's really important that they hear from the pastor and other leaders in this church that it's not the unforgivable sin that we all have sinned in our life that we have to deal with. It shouldn't be a divisive issue over how we move forward because the truth is that we all need the grace of God. So whatever the situation may be, whatever they felt like was the justifiable cause, I believe that the God who created that baby is also the God who stands ready just to help them move beyond that and and embrace what's next in their journey.
00:29:19
grovehillchurch
Well, gentlemen, thank you for joining me on this topic, this hard one. but I felt like it was good. I felt like we covered a number of different issues and shed some light on how to think about them.
00:29:29
grovehillchurch
Even me, I was probably a little bit more like, uh, in case of the mother's life and I'm, I'm fine myself mentally, like taking a few steps back there. I'm like, I'm going to have to dig into that a little bit more and I'm going to have some side conversations.
00:29:39
Ridley
yeah Yeah, yeah.
00:29:40
grovehillchurch
I'm probably gonna have to revisit it. Maybe even back on the show. Cause that was the one exception I still had in my mind where I'm like, Oh, maybe it's not as clear as I thought now.
00:29:48
Kyle
<unk>
00:29:49
Ridley
Well, I don't do John's exactly right.
00:29:50
grovehillchurch
So I appreciate that because I think we all need to be challenged.
00:29:53
Ridley
Yeah, John's exactly right. There's a lot of areas where probably all of us as true cup followers of Christ need to dig into the word deeper for ourselves, but also be willing to take a look at the researchers out there and the breakthroughs in technology and all those kinds of things.
00:30:06
Ridley
If anything, the the breakthrough in technology with ultrasound and sonograms today, convince me more than ever that a baby baby begins their life the day that that sperm eats that egg.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:30:17
Ridley
And God has an intentional purpose for every single one of them.
00:30:18
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:30:19
Ridley
And it's not our place to question and judge what that purpose is.
00:30:23
grovehillchurch
Well, again, thank you for joining me on the podcast. I look forward to seeing you guys next week.
00:30:26
Ridley
Mm hmm. All right.
00:30:28
Kyle
Thanks, Dan.
00:30:29
Ridley
Thanks.
00:30:29
Jon
Thank you.