Transcript
grovehillchurch: Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez and I'm here today with Kyle, John and Ridley. The four of us are back again. And today we're going to be talking about stuff you might believe as a Christian that actually isn't biblical or isn't quite biblical.
grovehillchurch: It's based off of what Ridley you were talking about in your sermon this past Sunday in accordance with syncretism or when your beliefs are essentially, I don't know if this is the proper way to say it, but like are essentially kind of syncing with other beliefs, right?
grovehillchurch: Or they're mixing with other beliefs.
Ridley: Right?
grovehillchurch: It happens all the time. It happens to other religions.
Ridley: Mm -hmm.
grovehillchurch: I remember a missionary friend telling me about like some Christian Muslim background believers bringing in some pagan ideas into Christianity because they had been confused even in their Islam wasn't quite pure you know so this happens all over the place to all kinds of people and it certainly happens to Christians so today I have a long list of funny little things some some big ones some
Ridley: Bright.
grovehillchurch: some cute ones and some some serious ones that we probably don't even realize are things that we believe or things we've heard or little sayings we hold we we say to be true.
grovehillchurch: yet might not be true. So I'm going to kick it off and start off with the first one. And we'll just go one by one. And as you're listening to this, think about whether you've heard this, or if you've believed it, it's something to wrestle with.
grovehillchurch: And it's I think the whole point of this is the kind of exercise, if we should always be exercising, looking for the truth and exposing what we believe, whether we heard it when we were young, we've heard it on a podcast recently, and all and a
Jon: The.
grovehillchurch: search for truth and what the real truth is what the bible says so we're going to evaluate some popular ones today but always be doing this with your belief system even bringing it to your peers or your pastors or elders to challenge some of these things sometimes we'll start off with my favorite one the belief that god wants you to be happy does he who wants
Ridley: yeah
Kyle : i I could bring up a verse when you when you said that, it kind of sparked something and I looked it up real quick and Psalms 112 .1 says, praise the Lord, blessed is the man who fears the Lord and who finds great delight in his commands.
Kyle : and so God wanting us to be happy. God wants us to follow His commands, which brings us the most delight. And so that's the that's about the closest you can get to that because if we look throughout scripture, those who follow the Lord are most of the time in the most turmoil and because of the attacks that the world and Satan has against his will.
Kyle : And so happiness might look like a different a light to you.
Ridley: Mm hmm.
Kyle : It may not mean that you're free of any sadness or free of any problems, but when you're when you're following and fearing the Lord and your delight is found in that.
Ridley: Hmm.
Kyle : You could be in some of the the hardest times of your life, but also have delight that God has you there. It's kind of an interesting concept. It's more so defining the word of or you what happiness is to you.
Kyle : If happy happiness means comfort, then no.
grovehillchurch: Yeah.
Kyle : If happiness happy means good times, then no. so
Ridley: Yeah, so yeah I think you're exactly right, Kyle. I think it's not necessarily the statement is false. It may be that our interpretation of what happiness is is what causes the problem. mean, could you go back over to the New Testament and listen to some of the conversations from guys like paul's and Paul and James and those guys where they talk about counting all joy, my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds?
Ridley: Well, yeah, God wants you to be joyous, but he wants you to be joyous in the troubles and trials that we would go, oh, that's not happy times, you know?
Jon: health.
Ridley: So the statement isn't necessarily way off basis, it just how we define those things.
grovehillchurch: The place that I hear this statement the most often that is the most disturbing to me is usually when a spouse is wrestling with divorce.
Ridley: Mm -hmm.
grovehillchurch: And it's probably the most common place where I hear it, then I'm like, yeah, that's 100 % misapplied.
Ridley: Mm -hmm.
Ridley: Yeah, absolutely.
grovehillchurch: It's like, God wants me to be happy, therefore, I need to get out of this marriage.
Jon: Yeah, that's the exception.
Ridley: Mm -hmm.
grovehillchurch: Yeah. If if this is the primary reason, then it's not a good reason.
Ridley: right
grovehillchurch: Of course, there are some reasons, but this is not one of them.
Jon: yeah
Ridley: That's not even a biblical reason.
Jon: yeah
grovehillchurch: no So moving on to the next one, Christians should not judge. It was interesting because you brought this one up in your your sermon, Ridley, and I think in some some services you gave some clarification and others not as much.
Ridley: Yeah, so let me let me jump in and clarify that one for everybody. The Bible actually commands us to judge one another. to start with the house of God and judging one another. We're supposed to judge one another's fruit to determine whether or not we are being obedient followers of Christ Jesus. So when you make the statement, you shouldn't judge, it's to say that we don't have the power or the authority to judge someone's eternal destination. But we do have to, we have a responsibility to judge each other's actions as to whether or not they align with scripture.
grovehillchurch: Right, and I find that people take that scripture out of context all the time of the log in your eye before you you deal with the speck in your own eye and miss that end.
Ridley: yeah
Ridley: It's probably one of the most familiar passages of scripture there is out there in the world. Really is.
grovehillchurch: Kind of like, yeah, no, no, it says clearly. Take the log out of your eye first and and then make a judgment call on the spec in your brother's eye, which still needs to come out because nobody wants that.
Ridley: hello
Ridley: Right. Yes.
Jon: Yeah, we've been in Malachi two and three with some young adults in our conversation there. And we were going over it last night talking about God is a God of justice and his character and talking about, you know, all that aspect of, you know, judging. We have to look at, man, the best perspective that we can take on this whole judging thing is who does it the best. And I think God is a perfect picture of that picture of justice.
Jon: And then looking introspectively of how we do that and do it well. And I think, you know, God gives us the example throughout scripture that, like you said, Ridley, looking into the body and how we can push each other to see
Ridley: Bye.
Jon: our spiritual lives played out. And sometimes that does looking that does mean looking to our brother and judging what fruits is he showing and saying, hey, this is where this needs to be aligned with what God god desires. But yeah, I definitely agree with you too, Dan. That verse gets taken so much out of context. Like, hey, don't be in my business.
grovehillchurch: Moving on to the next one, God will never give you more than you can handle.
Kyle : So there's, so there's ah I I mean, again, depending on how you look at it, you can't just make a generalization out of it.
grovehillchurch: Biblical, biblical.
Kyle : But there's a verse in scripture, I believe it's in 1 Corinthians, and it talks about, God will not give you, let you be tempted more than you can bear.
Ridley: right
Kyle : And so that's exactly where that comes from. is It's not that God won't give you more than you can handle. We can't handle this world. And so we're already in that. but you won't be tempted past what you can bear, meaning that if you have the Holy Spirit, you have a way out of every situation.
Kyle : And if you look at areas in the Bible when temptation arose, there were people who ran, literally ran.
Ridley: Right.
Kyle : They dropped what they had, which happened to be their clothes, and they ran out of that situation to get away from temptation. And so in the aspect of temptation, absolutely, we're not going to be tempted more than we can bear.
Ridley: Yeah.
Kyle : There's always a way out.
grovehillchurch: Any other thoughts?
Ridley: I think you said it well. I mean, I just, I think to the to the opposite of side of that, God absolutely sometimes purposely gives us more than we can bear because he wants us to trust in him and lean him in those situations.
Jon: Yeah.
Kyle : Mm hmm.
Ridley: So.
grovehillchurch: So it is it is a double a double, that saying kind of is true and kind of not true.
Jon: Totally agree.
Jon: OK.
grovehillchurch: It is true when it comes to sin, not true when it comes to maybe your capability, maybe your capacity, maybe your ability to just mentally handle something.
Ridley: Yes.
Ridley: Yeah.
grovehillchurch: nope you God will give you things and it will be from God and not from the devil and you crash and burn.
grovehillchurch: It's humbling, but I think we've all experienced it at some point.
Ridley: Yeah. Yes.
grovehillchurch: All right, cleanliness is next to godliness. It's a phrase I've heard. Maybe you've heard it from your mother or your grandmother back in the day. Does anybody know the origin of this this quote and where it comes from?
Kyle : i do not
Ridley: I do not, but a sneaky suspicion tells me you do.
grovehillchurch: Put it in there because I was looking for lists of common things Christians believe. This one actually comes back from the medieval ages and the Christians were not clean. The Muslims were.
grovehillchurch: And so it was like it was almost like a, hey, don't be that clean, because that's what the Muslims do. And it's not as good as godliness. Godliness is better than cleanliness, even though nowadays you hear it, you think of like, well, cleanliness is almost as close to godliness.
grovehillchurch: But really, it's it was kind of like a, don't you don't have to be that godliness is better than cleanliness. So don't be like the Muslims. It was kind of a funny thing they used to say back then.
Ridley: Hmm.
grovehillchurch: Nowadays, they equate it to being clean. is do we Do we value cleanliness as a as a morality issue in Christianity, though?
Ridley: Oh.
grovehillchurch: I'll throw that out there.
Kyle : I would say you could tie it up with slothfulness.
Ridley: Hmm.
Kyle : if you're if you're just If you don't have intention to keep your life in order, the Bible speaks heavily about being slothful or lazy. I would say that's where it would tie in.
Kyle : If there's dirt on my counter, I don't think you should be you know taking a log out of your eye before you inspect the speck in mind. But yeah, as far as slothfulness or laziness, that's directly addressed in Scripture.
Ridley: Yeah.
grovehillchurch: I think if you look at the book of Exodus, right, or Deuteronomy, it's this the amount of cleanliness laws there is shows that God's a God of cleanliness, right? And he's pretty consistent.
grovehillchurch: Even though you see it a little bit more in the Old Testament, you do in the New Testament probably just assumed that you're following the guidelines set out before.
Ridley: Right.
grovehillchurch: So it almost makes it like the way we take it today is like, kind of true but I mean obviously holiness doesn't come from that it comes from yeah salvation through through Christ alone but it's probably a good idea that we'll take a bath
Ridley: Yeah. I mean, I know we haven't gotten into the rest of your list, Dan, but I think most of these, what we're going to find is there's just enough of an element of truth that causes us to connect it to God or to his word.
Jon: yes
Ridley: But ah ah over the years, it's been twisted just enough or whatever taken out of its context, those kinds of things. That's what we do.
grovehillchurch: That's why we're realigning.
Ridley: Absolutely.
grovehillchurch: And this is just kind of a fun list to go over anyway.
Ridley: Yeah.
grovehillchurch: The next one's extra fun. Guardian Angels. Do we have them or do we not?
Ridley: my gut tells me, y 'all feel free to to debate this one. My gut tells me we have angels that watch over us, but I don't believe we have guardians that are assigned specifically to us. I think there are obviously situations, Lord knows I shouldn't even be alive in some instances, but there was something that protected me or someone that protected me.
Ridley: If you want evidence, then you go back to the scripture and you see instances where angels, you know, buried Moses supposedly, God himself did that, that angels fought over in the book of Daniel, fought over Daniel to protect him, those kinds of things. So there's evidence there that angels are active and all around us and doing things. I just don't think I have an angel named Charlie. He's constantly on my shoulder watching out for me.
Jon: I think we like to put emphasis, you know, and I say we as in culture likes to put emphasis on that in, you know, end of life situations, funerals, you see a lot of that.
Ridley: Mm -hmm.
Jon: Oh, so and so was watching out for me. They're my angel. I think we do that again. And it's, you know, sometimes beating a drum that's been beat for a while, but we like to think of something like that because it's comforting and not so much because it's truthful because yeah, angelology,
Ridley: Yep. Yeah.
Jon: and You know, the study of that throughout scripture says angels are real as far as there's an emphasis of God utilizing that. But it's very specific and it's not just the run of the mill. Hey, you get one, you get one, you you know.
Ridley: Yeah, because I'm pretty sure I would have needed four or five to take care of them at this point. You know, and something that's tangent to that is this idea that your dead loved ones become angels that are looking out for you.
Jon: Yeah. yeah
Ridley: That's a yeah mistake. First of all, nobody dies and becomes an angel. That's a different created being altogether.
Jon: No.
Ridley: I think the scripture is very clear about that. But even more specifically, my grandmother is not watching out over me right now. so
grovehillchurch: Here's a more obscure one that wasn't in my original list that I prepped you guys with, but now that's in my mind, I'm like, I have to bring it up.
Ridley: Go ahead, Gal.
grovehillchurch: Ghosts, biblical or unbiblical?
Kyle : So again, with the definition of what we want to describe as the ghost, if we're talking about and a spiritual being, then absolutely. with we The Bible speaks directly to what we were just talking about, angels. The Bible speaks directly to demons and demon possession. And so when people go into those areas and they seek out those types of things,
Kyle : One, don't. it's it's a It's a very slippery slope between wanting to experience a spiritual thing and going right into satanic rituals. and so But yes, the the Bible speaks directly to the spiritual realms, the spiritual beings, but you know Casper in in the white sheet with the holes cut out, not not necessarily. so you you watch these shows and people are enthralled with the shows about ghost hunters and spirits and things like that. There's a lot of demonic stuff involved in that and surrounding that. And so I stick with scripture and I would caution any area that has to do with the spiritual realm of seeking to speak to something.
grovehillchurch: For sure, it's dangerous. The one scripture I'm thinking of that gives me gives me pause to think that it's more than angels or demons, like if you encounter something supernatural or something that seems like ghosty, that but probably a demon, right?
Jon: Bye!
grovehillchurch: Is that one passage where the medium pulls Samuel back from the dead and Saul's having a conversation with them. I'm like, well Like, it seems like there's this realm here where people can be brought back and talked to, and that's ah ah that's a thing that can happen.
grovehillchurch: Now, of course, Samuel comes back in a rebuke saw immediately for doing something really bad. So we know, like, there's no case where Christians have ever be seeking this, but it does bring in this, like, interesting gray area of maybe there's a possibility that it can be more
Ridley: Yeah, and and the question i I think I wrestle with with that story, because that's the first thing that came to my mind too, Dan, is was that really Samuel spirit that was brought back? If so, was it one time exception for God because he was trying to correct the monarchy of Israel as it was getting started? Or was it a demon posing as Samuel in order to take Saul off course in his kingship or whatever? And the answer to me, for me is,
Ridley: Whatever you guys think.
Jon: I think just the the thought of ghosts today and where are they, you know, institute this thought of, you know, some Civil War hotel is, you know, haunted by ghosts.
grovehillchurch: Yeah.
Ridley: Right.
Jon: I mean, boo.
grovehillchurch: Yeah.
Ridley: Yeah.
Jon: It's one of those things that I'm like,
grovehillchurch: Likely nothing, most likely to even.
Jon: To me, it gives, again, more credence to the thought, then if you believe in ghosts, then man, you got to give credence to the person that believes that their grandmother is their guardian angel now, to that personal effect.
grovehillchurch: Yeah.
Jon: I would ascribe to the thought that you know Ridley and Kyle just mentioned that there's demons, there's an emphasis of demons being reality ah ah throughout scripture today, even, and then angels.
Jon: So I think sometimes those can disguise and put there as far as demons, they can be masked in in various ways.
Ridley: Yeah.
Kyle : I think also for an area that's maybe unknown. look at the area that you're searching for information. And so if I wanna know about spiritual beings, I can go to scripture and I can read what I need to know about spiritual beings.
Kyle : If I'm looking outside of scripture to find and learn about spiritual beings, you could darn right guarantee that's gonna be a satanic force.
Ridley: Uh huh.
grovehillchurch: yeah
Kyle : And so if someone asks, oh, show me you're real by moving this stool and something moves, that's not like an angel going, here's God's, you're looking into areas that God didn't design us to seek.
Ridley: Yes.
Kyle : We're supposed to seek
Ridley: Uh huh.
Kyle : scripture and get our information from there. And so very dangerous going into those areas where you think you're going to contact or seek something out from this world.
Ridley: I think maybe we need to hold this conversation in a few weeks, have another conversation about Halloween and the cultural impact it has on the church.
grovehillchurch: Yeah.
grovehillchurch: There we go. Maybe I should round up a bunch of questions related to that.
Ridley: would be Yeah, yeah.
grovehillchurch: It could be fun. Well, to to to come soon. soon. um With that, it's kind of a good segue to the next question is around Satan. Does Satan rule over hell? Or is he more of a prisoner of hell or how does that work?
Ridley: If you're talking about the real hell, i I do not think, I think he's a victim of hell, just like anybody else that's sent to hell. I don't think he's the ruler over it. I think that the place where Satan does have authority is here on this earth. He's the ruler, the prince of the power of the air, according to Ephesians. So he has that authority here, but I think when he gets to hell, I think that's a punishment and a conviction, not a, here's your <unk> your territory reign.
Jon: I think, yeah, he's relegated to that. Again, maybe the face of it. God only gives him as much parameter as he does for a reason. you know There's not anything that God doesn't allow in in his design with whatever he's over. And again, I think the resources that he has to use here on earth, yeah, he's got them, but it's more of a a ah punishment again for the pulling back that he had in the very beginning of, you know
Jon: the creation of Lucifer, all that stuff. It definitely is.
Kyle : I think, I think you're, I think you're right in that statement right there.
Jon: Go ahead.
Kyle : A punishment is he's being punished. He's not the punisher.
Ridley: Right.
Kyle : And so, it's a place created by God. it's a place of, of punishment for him. And so, uh, with just that logical concept right there, he's not ruling over that or the Institute or of the punishment.
Kyle : so I kind of think it kind of answers itself in what create what hell actually is.
grovehillchurch: Next one I have is three three smaller points. I want to hear, is it true? Is there is there a sprinkling of truth in some of these somewhere? the First one is luck. Is luck a thing? Does the Bible speak to luck?
Ridley: I don't think so. I think and to me there is um um I don't even know how to define it other than I think that World events circumstances are all left in God's hands. So the flip of the quarter or all those kinds of things. To me, those are chance and there's a difference between chance and luck. You can flip a quarter a hundred times and percentages are that you're going to get X number. You know, that that's not luck. That's just chance playing itself out. My grandfather used to tell me all the time, there's no such thing as luck. You make your own luck.
grovehillchurch: Or you just have a great outlook. So everything seems to be going on your way.
Ridley: Yeah. Yeah.
grovehillchurch: Everybody's like, that's a really lucky person when that person is really just taking everything.
Ridley: Yeah. If you're an optimist, then everything looks good, right?
grovehillchurch: All right. Next one is superstition.
Jon: Superstition, yeah. Being a big sports fan, you see it all the time.
grovehillchurch: There.
Ridley: Yeah.
Jon: The rally caps, the the the favorite t -shirt they're never going to wash. ah Again, Again, I think it goes back to probability and so many different things that I believe God allows.
Ridley: Mm hmm.
Jon: But I don't believe you know the superstitions are going to change any other exterior of it by what you do. you know I just think some of it's pretty silly.
grovehillchurch: Well, the last one of this, these rapid fire ones, is karma. Or more, not the karma where it's like you die and get reincarnated kind of karma, but like the idea that what goes around comes around.
Kyle : So I guess I could talk to that one. If I make enough bad choices, I'm gonna have bad before my life.
Ridley: Yeah.
Kyle : If I'm careless with my relationships, if I'm careless with my money, if I'm careless in general, bad things are gonna happen to me. And so that's not karma, that's a fact.
Kyle : On the other side, say I do all these good things and I, serve the homeless and I do this, I can still get cancer, right? And so the whole aspect of karma, what it what it is from that religion is not a thing. But there is logical things that if I take care of my family well and take take care of my finances, I'm more likely to be successful in my finances if I if i take care of them. And if I'm careless, I'm more likely to fail.
Kyle : There's just a logical side to that. But just because I do all the good things doesn't mean all the good things are going to happen to me and the the reverse for the opposite.
Kyle : But a little more likely that if you do all the bad things, bad things are going to happen to you.
Ridley: Yeah.
Ridley: And I like the fact that you use the word logic because think the verse that comes to mind for me, even though it's not specifically addressing this subject, is do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Kyle : Sure.
Ridley: I don't think that Jesus is saying if you do good, then karma is going to come back to you. I think he's saying if you're good to people and kind and compassionate people, there's a greater likelihood that they're going to turn around and be kind and compassionate to you.
Ridley: It's kind of like when the police officer pulls you over to give you a ticket, you've been speeding. If you treat him with kindness and gentleness and respect who he is, he's probably going to be a little bit more favorable to you. He may not write off the entire ticket, but he might give you a little bit lower fine just because you were respectful for him.
grovehillchurch: find that with this saying of what goes around comes around in the light version of karma. it It makes me think of like the saying that I heard from a friend saying that all truth is God's truth.
Ridley: Hmm.
grovehillchurch: And if God really possessed wisdom and created the universe according to wisdom, then other people would discover some general rules of life because God created those things to happen that way.
grovehillchurch: And that they would find that if you behave wisely, like life tends to go better for you. If you behave unwisely, life tends to go worse for you.
Ridley: Mm -hmm.
grovehillchurch: Not that bad things don't happen to good people or good things don't happen to bad people, they do, which is what Ecclesiastes will wrestle with.
Ridley: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm -hmm.
grovehillchurch: But There's still a created order to things and I think some people have found ways of false ways of like creating theology around why it is, but still they found a piece of truth that was true.
Ridley: Yeah.
Ridley: yeah And there's a simplistic way of expressing that that we learn early, early on from our parents, because your mom says, if you run around the house with those scissors, your heart yourself. That's a kind of a karma kind of statement.
Ridley: It's like an elementary version of it. If you do stupid things in the house, you're gonna get hurt. Well, that's not because of karma.
grovehillchurch: Yeah.
Ridley: It's because of, I think John used the word earlier, probability. The more you do dumb things, the greater chance they're gonna catch up with you at some point.
grovehillchurch: Here's a beehive I like to kick every once in a while.
grovehillchurch: To be Christian is to be Republican.
Ridley: Because we all know Jesus was.
grovehillchurch: Who wants to go first?
Ridley: Jesus wore a red sash around his robe.
Jon: Ugh.
Ridley: To me, this is why I'm very careful. I don't call myself a Republican or a Democrat. I found a Democrat who expressed Christian values, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. you know it's To me, it's not about the party you represent, it's about the principles you represent. And to go one step further,
Ridley: And I've said this clearly from the stage, I'm not a fan of Donald Trump. His character causes me great concern. There are parts about Kamala Harris that I actually like. They're feeling far between, but there are parts that I like. So it's not about the party they represent. For me in this election specifically, it's about finding the men and women who best or most closely represent Christian values.
Ridley: and voting for them may not win a complete and final success for me, but it might be an incremental step in getting us back to where we need to be as a nation.
Ridley: So no, Jesus is an independent.
grovehillchurch: And I'll leave that one at that one. one. ah The next one is, it's it's more of a statement like the fact that we in lean on psychology as a source of truth alongside biblical teaching.
grovehillchurch: This one's a hard one because we do study psychology and we have Christian psychologists, but where do we def define define ah define the line when it comes to psychology? Since a lot of us are reading psychology books, it's very popular to read these things, and quoting psychological studies as a source of truth into why we do what we do.
Jon: I think humans are very complex beings. And I think, man, scripture talks about so much the makeup of who we are as humanity.
Ridley: Yeah.
Jon: And sometimes those things go very deep. And thank goodness we do have Christian psychologists who love to apply what Scripture says to some of those things that are very complex, you know, and understanding how ah ah the human side, you know, the brain works, all that. But I do think that line sometimes we definitely have to see that as letting scripture speak first and then speaking beyond that of what natural things, you know, what we found out in the psychology of people over, you know, hundreds of years, how that plays into that conversation. I definitely think they go hand in hand, but ah ah if we're looking at scripture first and then looking at what psychologists have seen. We can kind of mesh those two together, but scripture has to be paramount before
Jon: before anything else.
Kyle : John, I'm glad you mentioned the Christian psychologist because, like you're saying, it's not a bad area, but a Christian psychologist psychologist will ah kind of see what the mind's doing and point you to things outside the mind, which is Christ, and then a worldly psychologist will point it back to self.
Jon: No.
Kyle : and so we know that self is corrupt. And so to walk through these things and see how there's a a purpose that is greater than us inside of it is the way that we process out of it. Whereas there could be areas that turn it back into yourself and you could just get in that cycle of relying on yourself to do something that you're not capable of doing.
Ridley: Yeah, and and quite frankly, and this is not a popular opinion these days, but I feel like too many Christians fall back on psychology as an excuse for their sin. instead of taking responsibility for the actions and choices they make. Now, to be sure, all of us have paths that impact us and develop our character in good and bad ways. But I feel like there are too many Christians today who are very readily you know blaming this or so you know this disorder or that disorder for their behavior. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but the Bible says very clearly, you have a responsibility to take for the actions you choose.
Kyle : And what's said about that is a lot of times those issues come from the result of someone else's sin. And so someone's you know experienced something traumatic as a child, and now they're in a cycle with their own sin because of something that somebody else did.
Ridley: Yeah.
Kyle : It's it's really a a sad situation in most cases.
grovehillchurch: Moving on to a common belief that I've seen out there is this question, is material blessing or the lack of heart circumstances a sign that God is pleased with you?
Ridley: Uh, answer no.
Kyle : Cheers.
Ridley: I mean, the best example I can think of is going back to my grandmother and grandfather. He was a free will Baptist minister, drove a school bus to make ends meet, raised eight kids in South Georgia.
Ridley: He was a dirt farmer. He never had a whole lot, but I don't know a more godly man that ever lived. He and his his wife loved the community, ministered to the community, prayed for the community. He served several different churches as an itinerant pastor over the years. The man was a ah ah shepherd, a real shepherd for the those communities he served, but he never had much, and that was okay with him. I think you, of course, can always trace it all the way back to the Bible and when Jesus was confronted by people who would go, you know,
Ridley: Who sinned to cause this man to have the problems he's got going on in his life? And Jesus would correct him and go, it has nothing to do with sin. This is just so God can show his power to you people. So it's a bad, bad misinterpretation of the life events to say that our goodness gets us anything we deserve. Don't don't deserve
grovehillchurch: almost seems like it pairs pair as well with the belief that God wants you to be happy or that if you're doing good then therefore you should be happy or God will help you be happy.
Jon: Thank you.
grovehillchurch: It's kind of like God will bless me if I do the right things and bad things are happening to me because I do because I'm
Ridley: Yep.
grovehillchurch: because I'm sinning of some kind. And when we do that to the nation all the time, we say, oh, America is getting judged right now, or that hurricane hit this city because that city is ungodly, right?
Ridley: right
Ridley: Yep.
grovehillchurch: New Orleans specifically, you're right.
Ridley: Well, and you know, I could, I could see where there would be confusion about this because from the Old Testament all the way forward. God makes promises to nations. If you will obey me, if you'll follow me, then I will bless you as a nation.
Ridley: I don't think that has anything to do with blessing individuals or special blessings.
Jon: Yeah, it is.
Ridley: I think it's once again just saying, if you'll follow me, then you'll find out that what I'm promising you is better than what you're going to seek for yourself. And as further evidence of that, I would offer How many times have we seen just in the last three or four months pastors who are prosperous and who materialistically are blessed in their churches who are falling because of their sin? So I would think if one thing were true, the contrary would be true as well. And obviously we're not seeing an indication of that.
grovehillchurch: And it kind of goes back to that wisdom and karma principle we were just talking about too.
Ridley: Exactly, exactly.
grovehillchurch: It's all tying together. And my last question today is a personal one for me. It's just something I've realized recently and I feel like I'm unpacking is a that it's a belief on where you have a focus on the individual experience and autonomy, or essentially like you are the main character of the story kind of a feel.
grovehillchurch: I'm having a hard time, like it really needs a name, this this thing. But I feel like it comes a lot from like Disney movies. You know, you you watch Aladdin, you watch Beauty and the Beast, you watch The Wizard of Oz, and everybody identifies with the main character. And it feels like they go about their life as a main character character. In fact, the kids, they actually have a word for it. They call it main character energy. Have you ever heard that term before? It's like going around on TikTok. But part of me is like, you know what? yeah Is that biblical?
grovehillchurch: or should we be reeling that back a little bit to the days when like people saw themselves as part of as a citizen or as a a church member before they saw themselves as an individual?
Kyle : I don't know if I'm going to answer this question along the lines of what you're thinking or what you're looking for. But my perception has always been that God gives us ourself. And so we we under so we see things from our eyes. We hear things from our ears. and We speak from our mouth. so we have our personal identity in that in that case, but just back like back to the psychology thing, we have to look outside of ourselves to the main character and I don't even think we need to say who the main character is, but we know who the main character is.
Kyle : and and that's And he's the main character of the story. And so I think he puts himself in that position. He allows us to have the freedom of who we are, to raise families, to have spouses, to have children. But it is all designed, and scripture tells us this, it's all designed to bring glory back to the maker.
Kyle : And so, yes, we have our eyes, we have our life, but our life is put on this earth for one purpose, and that's for the main character.
Ridley: Very well put.
Jon: I was talking to somebody last night about this very same question. We think about ourselves way too highly. Uh, and the, the crazy thing about it is we draw that attention to ourself, but you know, if the attention is drawn to self, we take away the social context. We take away all the other things that are going on. Obviously,
Jon: you have a lot of social influencers nowadays, you have a lot of that are pushing this idea of draw people into this, I'm the main character, but the best way that that's played out and the best way that anyone's uniqueness is draw it out and shown is whenever God's a part of the equation or when other people are a part of,
Jon: your life. you know I think it ties in too with you know the those commandments, Deuteronomy 6, and then also in the New Testament where you're involving others in this context. And I think that's whenever your character, whoever that is, your character is best played out. Whenever others are brought into the equation and ultimately God's brought into the equation.
grovehillchurch: Absolutely. I think back to the the famous book Purpose Driven Life and the first sentence in the book. It's not about you.
Ridley: it's It's probably for the most powerful words written in a book in the 21st century in my mind, if you think about the ramifications of it.
Ridley: because what it doesn't say, but it implies is it's about something bigger than you. And if if we could get that drilled into the minds of 380 million Americans, how this country would be a different place? Just radically, radically different. If I didn't look out for Ridley all the time and think the world revolved around Ridley, and we started out so young, used to with my kids when I was a ah ah student minister used to talk about their egocentricity, this idea that the world, ah ah their high school world revolves around them.
Ridley: If they show up with a pimple on their nose, everybody's paying attention to their nose because everybody's worried about what Ridley looks like.
grovehillchurch: Bye bye.
Ridley: And no, most of them have their own pimples to worry about. They're not worried about you, you know? And so we we just start off with that whole mentality of the world exists for me and is focused on me.
Ridley: And and maybe maybe that's because we pull from scripture these passages where we you know it talks about how God loves us and he pays attention to our needs and those kinds of things, but he's not doing it because we're the focus. He's doing that because he is the focus and he gets glory by us living life according to his plan.
grovehillchurch: So with that, we'll wrap up the podcast. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me through this mishmash of interesting, it's kind of a collective assortment of beliefs that have wandered into a lot of Christian minds and belief systems.
Ridley: Good.
grovehillchurch: So hopefully if you've listened to this, you've gotten some interesting factoids, but also some, maybe we've pulled a few of these out that you've leaned on or believed or have heard a lot that you've recognized and made you rethink it a little bit.
Kyle : Thank you.
grovehillchurch: anything, maybe we've hopefully we've salted your mind with the fact that you should question or rethink some of these things. They come off your tongue because maybe they don't come directly from the Bible.
grovehillchurch: We need to evaluate it as we should always be reevaluating what we believe so that we align ourselves more closely with the truth over and over.
Ridley: That's right.
grovehillchurch: So thank you for listening to the Grove Hill Church podcast.
