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#10 - Presentation of metaverse
21 Plays8 months ago
The first podcast to introduce the concept of the metaverse
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Weather Chat
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome everyone. I'm with Sam and Boris. Hi guys. Happy to be here again. Another day, another podcast. Hello guys. Really good. Fresh weather in Barcelona. Sunny. We are Saturday 17 of Feb today. Pretty excited about it.
Visionaries and the Metaverse
00:00:17
Speaker
almost 10 has been a long way we start to change the topic we have spoken a lot about crypto and today we will change a bit the topic yes so today we dive into the fascinating universe of the vetiverse this is a concept that we're defining how we live we work and connect
00:00:36
Speaker
But what exactly is the metaverse and why do you visionaries like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk see it as the future of our civilization. So yeah, just to give a bit of definition and origin of the metaverse.
Defining the Metaverse
00:00:54
Speaker
This is a term coined in science fiction refers to a chart virtual universe where people can interact in three dimensions space spaces via avatars. It's a kind of evolution of the internet as we know as we know it promising and and
00:01:16
Speaker
unprecedented level of immersion for virtual and augmented reality. So with this kind of technology, like the Apple Vision Pro headset, we are making a significant leap forward. So this device allows us to not just to see but interact with a virtual world in an intuitive way. What do you think about a different technology who can allow us to connect in this world?
Growth and Investment in the Metaverse
00:01:46
Speaker
I'm fairly new to the whole Metaverse space. I've kind of seen it, read a couple of articles. Obviously you've got huge companies like Facebook that are investing massively in it. As you said, there's new technology that's been developed around it.
00:02:06
Speaker
So it is a growing space. I've not had a great look into it, but I know that it's grown.
Metaverse and Video Games
00:02:13
Speaker
It's been around for a while. I mean, I think if I'm not mistaken, a lochulus rift was made by Meta.
00:02:22
Speaker
And then for me it kind of all ties into the whole video game side of things. Kind of getting immersed into a new world, a different world where different things are possible and where you can interact with objects and people. Kind of like in the same world, like an alternative universe. That's kind of the way I see
Generational Understanding of the Metaverse
00:02:42
Speaker
it.
00:02:42
Speaker
For me, I think it depends with who you speak about Metaverse. Because if you speak up with people that are, let's say, web tree friendly or coming from the web tree that some of the people that listen to this podcast are, they know more or less what Metaverse. But if I speak with my parents or my grandparents, they have heard about it.
00:03:11
Speaker
but they don't really know what it means and it's far from their reality. So I think that they are good art stickers for defining what is the metaverse, one that I found that is by News Trend Micro that I will link in the resource of this episode on our website, sonumeramesh.com.
00:03:36
Speaker
And yeah, what I was saying is that depending on who you ask and who you speak to and how they interact with the internet, people will have different answers to the question of what the metaverse actually is. But in simplest definition, the metaverse refers to those realms of internet that encompass real-time human interaction.
Virtual Reality Gaming Experiences
00:04:02
Speaker
So what that means is that
00:04:04
Speaker
you can put and i can put a virtual reality glass so virtual reality glasses series i can create my avatar as you'll say i can consume mega end gaming content i think a big big part of what i am personally interested is the gaming side of the metaverse for example i played once in a room with my sister killing zombies with
00:04:31
Speaker
with glasses so I entered in a room they provide me a kind of laser game gun and weapon and I put on the glasses and through the glasses I was seeing my sister that was an army avatar let's say so not really personalized
00:04:52
Speaker
So it's pretty standard avatars for the moment. I didn't have the choice to choose the color of my hair or the color of my clothes. And we could move around inside the room and we were going in different places with the glasses. The thing is that the room was pretty small also.
Innovations in VR Technology
00:05:08
Speaker
So I think that one of the key concepts will be the size needed to move around the metaverse because what is really good
00:05:16
Speaker
I guess, I don't know what you think guys about but in the metaverse, if you are in a room of 20m squares it allows you with the glasses and with the oculus or product you use to move from room to room even without really moving of course there are pros and cons and we will discuss that
00:05:35
Speaker
but for me it's one of the big advantages and disadvantages is that you want to walk in the metaverse you can do that of course you will go in circles in reality but virtually you need a small room in your flat and you can be in different metaverse I think it's a good and a bad thing at the same time I've been seeing it quite a bit on LinkedIn so there's like this kind of weird carpet that's come out which allows you to walk and it always puts you back in the center of the carpet you do have
00:06:03
Speaker
In theory, the limitation of the space and the reward, but if this becomes a big thing, the carpet where you can walk and it always keeps you in the middle, but you feel like you're really walking, it really opens up a lot of limits and possibilities for walking around roaming and feeling more and more immersive experience.
VR Technologies: Oculus and Apple Vision Pro
00:06:22
Speaker
So to speak a bit more about Oculus, as far as I remember, it's a virtual glasses that is a software of virtual reality and it was created by Meta to play a different kind of game if I'm not mistaken.
00:06:37
Speaker
one point about what Sam said before. I mean you can put your Apple Vision Poor on the head and just live with it on your head like you can walk on the street and being inside the metaverse. You can see the reality and in the same time being in the metaverse. I don't know if you get me guys. I mean if you are walking on the street with the Apple Vision Poor, you are seeing what happened in the street.
00:07:04
Speaker
And in the meanwhile, in the same times, you are also in the metaverse. Okay. I mean, imagine otherwise, if a car was the street, you are just shot. That's what I was thinking. Why someone would walk with the glasses? I won't try to do that.
00:07:23
Speaker
Originally, that was my thinking process. Now, there's already a lot of video on Twitter or YouTube with people walking on the street and in the same time looking at different things. I mean, you're not exactly inside the metaverse, but you are in another simulation. I mean, you can see the real world, you can see your end, while you have the upper vision poor on your head.
00:07:50
Speaker
But yes, I mean, if you want to open a tree window and making some, doing, sorry, doing some degen trading at the same time than crossing the streets, then you can. It reminds me something that I saw with Ray Ban, the glasses, that was proposing to be able to take pictures with glasses.
Oculus VR's History and Impact
00:08:15
Speaker
And this, I found the concept fascinating.
00:08:18
Speaker
to be able to take a picture with glasses. So just to precise, no Oculus VR is called MetaQuest. That is an American company created by Palmer Luca and Brendan Erebe.
00:08:35
Speaker
it's a filial sub study i think some you will confirm it's the correct word of meta platform so x facebook oculus virtual radity was bought by facebook in march 2014 for 2 billion of dollars and the activity is virtual radity so oculus rift and oculus quest are two
00:08:57
Speaker
glasses of virtual reality that has been delivered on the market on March 2016 and May 2019 and the conceptor, so Palmer Lukey, that is the builder of this kind of helmet of virtual reality has studied in the University of California. He is thinking that he has the bigger and the most important collection of the world of helmet
00:09:27
Speaker
of virtual reality and he is a moderator since a long time of discussion forum speaking about 3D mean to be seen MTBS and thanks to these forums he developed the idea to create a new helmet of virtual reality that is more efficient comparing to what is currently in the market and less expensive so to develop this he
00:09:52
Speaker
He created Oculus VR with members from Scaleform Corporation, Brenda Iri and Mikhail Antonov, and then engineers Jack McCauley, Ned Mitchell, Andrew Skodre. So after having done his research, he tried to create the first prototype, etc, etc.
00:10:15
Speaker
Link the full Wikipedia page and on the resource of this episode because it's a bit long but just to be to give a bit of of contact and I think what is interesting is the business strategy so the tailing and the development with mario kerber that
00:10:31
Speaker
When he bought he said Oculus has the possibility to create the platform, the most social of the history and to change the way we work, we play, we communicate in the future on the social media and the social media will not only be a place to share moments but we will be able to share real experiences and Facebook will monetize the platform and
00:10:55
Speaker
get a return on this buying but doesn't want to win money by selling the
Economic Potential of the Metaverse
00:11:01
Speaker
helmet. So this is about Oculus. Let's speak about the economy in the metaverse. I think it's pretty linked with the crypto. Do you have video games example of using the metaverse or entertainment in the metaverse? Do you know some companies or some games or some crypto that are focusing on that?
00:11:22
Speaker
There was a lot of talk about, you know, NFTs. So, you know how in video games you can buy skins, which are pixels, make you look cool, or certain weapons or whatever. In video games, so they're only valid to the game for which you purchase it from. But making that an NFT on a blockchain enables you to kind of move it around
00:11:48
Speaker
from one game to another which is I find really cool. So you get more ownership through the NFTs, true ownership and that kind of translates into the whole video game realm of things. A lot of it was speculative but there are some really interesting
00:12:09
Speaker
things to see and learn about it.
NFTs and Virtual Marketplaces
00:12:11
Speaker
I think of I went to the museum in Paris next to the Saint-Pompidou NFT factory, which was quite interesting, a good introduction to NFTs, and I believe you can talk to experts there which are very knowledgeable on the subject. You can get an introduction course. I'd highly recommend it to anyone that's visited Paris, by the way, actually.
00:12:31
Speaker
Okay, I found an article of Forbes that is explaining that NFTs are generally associated with websites and transactions that occur through web browsers and because the metaverse is mostly VR based there might be some confusion about what their common ground is and whether there is any in the first place.
00:12:54
Speaker
So the NFT uses in the metaverse, if we speak about that, the first one, I guess it's virtual marketplace and in second place, as Sam said, it's art gallery, because virtual verity is perhaps the best possible platform.
00:13:12
Speaker
short of an actual brick and mortar building for viewing art you get to see it up close with every detail and from every angle and this type of solutions differs from a marketplace because the prices are already set and not negotiated so the assets are all of one type
00:13:33
Speaker
art compositions and the atmosphere is much more relaxed for example many museums are currently placing NFT artwork in metaverses such as crypto voxels powered by the Ethereum blockchain and according to the art newspaper crypto voxels host hard art galleries and museums including San Francisco Museum of Modern Art and the FC
00:13:56
Speaker
from Cisco, Carolinum, Linz, Austria. It's also the case in the MOCO Museum here in Barcelona that is also displaying some NFTs. So I think they are topic also that we will be able to address with NumeraMS as a business, such as how to implement a metaverse with NFTs.
00:14:14
Speaker
So as you may have noticed the metaverse is still a pretty new concept and only a handful of companies have already built solutions in this field that implement NFT. So if you guys are one of these companies, please let's speak and you are more than welcome on this podcast. I'm thinking about some solutions so I will contact
00:14:36
Speaker
some of you. Thus, if you see a use case for the combination in your business and have the resources to make it happen, contact us. We want to be one of the first companies to take advantage of these two trends. So a lot of companies don't have any VR developers employed and
00:15:00
Speaker
you can come at us to find some and I think that you can consider to search for this specific knowledge such as building with unity and real or implementing movement tracking and the knowledge of blockchain and NFT minting
00:15:19
Speaker
I think will be pretty helpful for you. So, this is a bit of promotion. Coming back to the topic, I think it's important to know who are the leaders shaping the metaverse and what leaders should know about the metaverse. So, some engines, what would be your, let's say, go-to advice for either business owners
00:15:48
Speaker
either parents that want to educate their children, how do you see the future of the metaverse, the expansion, the growth, the challenge regarding the ownership and the potential use cases that can bring numeramish and in general people get more educated and develop this space and go to the next
Implications for Work and Society
00:16:10
Speaker
step.
00:16:10
Speaker
For me, I can imagine I'm in a world where you can work, you can learn and socialize entirely within the Metaverse. I think the future generation might prefer these virtual realities over physical interaction with a profound implication for our social fabric. The Metaverse opens up incredible avenues for businesses also.
00:16:34
Speaker
think about billboards in virtual cities for example, doors where you can try on digital clothes or even attending virtual concerts. The possibilities are endless and I won't talk about the things that today's elements think that we are living in a simulation and meanwhile he fascinates us with this bold idea
00:16:58
Speaker
What if our reality, our current reality was already a simulation? And I know this is controversial, but it was a design question about our existence and our future in the metaverse. Because if we accept today that the idea of
00:17:19
Speaker
of living in a simulation the development of the metaverse becomes even more intriguing so it represents not just technological process but a deeper exploration of our own reality i know i know it's a bit weird something like that but just imagine i think it'd definitely be something interesting to see i mean i think um like if you're trying to like teach your children and your younger people i think we'll find that
00:17:47
Speaker
they're actually already learning about it themselves and they're probably more knowledgeable on the topic than like older generations because I remember I mean it's it's with any evolution like you see for example you know learning computers phones etc
00:18:05
Speaker
back then way back when it came out everybody was kind of picking it up now you see kids that are like a couple years old that fully know how to use a smartphone you know so I think it will be picked up over time pretty easily one of the things that's interesting that Jules said is if we go to the depths of exploring wanting to live in
00:18:26
Speaker
I don't know if we can call it an alternative reality.
Conservative Perspectives on the Metaverse
00:18:30
Speaker
I think you'll see that there'll be kind of two sides, like the conservative side, which will probably be like all the conservative people saying like, why would you want to live in another world than the one we're in at the moment?
00:18:46
Speaker
And also, I think the whole question about that is you've got to be able to really create value in that world for it to work and people to actually want to go and do things in the metaverse. Other than that, I think something that will take on on time, it will keep on getting integrated step by step into our new technologies. And before we know it, it will be part of our daily lives. I mean, this
00:19:14
Speaker
the Apple glasses that you mentioned you I think that's certainly like a first stage but obviously it's an innovation it's just come out but it can be refined it can be made smaller more efficient more practical so I think we've still got quite a long way to go but with big companies like you've got Microsoft you've got Meta or investing billions probably into it and I don't see how it's not going to become a thing it's more a question of when then if
00:19:44
Speaker
yeah yeah that's that's totally true and i i want to complete what you say sam that one of the sign of the metaverse fuller revile on the scenes facebook who owns VR product that we have just spoken about rebranding as meta in october 2021 marxie curberg announced
00:20:00
Speaker
in different posts he wants to focus on old things metaverse related so meta will be i guess the leader on that and a lot of people are criticizing who is using meta right now only the old people are using facebook but i think that meta will be a champion i can be wrong now another thing you spoke about microsoft 2022 microsoft purchased Activision Blizzard for
00:20:26
Speaker
a whopping 70 billion dollars and more recently Epic Games and Delego Group announced in early April 2023 that they would be teaming up to develop a family-friendly kids safe metaverse and for me it's one of the point that I want to
00:20:43
Speaker
develop in France, English also speaking countries, maybe at some point in Spanish, if I continue to learn Spanish, is to develop collaboration and to develop trainings with Numeramesh for schools, for parents, for maybe at some point a training program that will be able to get for free online on Numeramesh to protect children's right to play by making safety and well-being a priority.
00:21:07
Speaker
Safeguard children's privacy by putting their best interests first and empower children and adults with tools that give them control over their digital experience. Today it's really hard for a parent or for a children to get a go to guide and no matter how one chooses to define and interact with the metaverse, one thing is clear, the metaverse is here to stay and will only
Challenges and Benefits of the Metaverse
00:21:28
Speaker
expand. And as you say Sam, even if you are conservative, the metaverse will be here. As with all technological developments, there are clear pros and cons for
00:21:36
Speaker
for children, for parents, for grandparents, for companies, for everyone. But for parents and for businesses, openness and communication of the different pros and cons are the key. And for me the pros is you can stay connected with people. So it's not only a thing that will get you far from your family or from your friends. It can be the case and it can be also not the case and it can allow you to stay more connected.
00:22:01
Speaker
you can find more communities, you can find more activities, you can find more solutions for your personal issues, you can show your artwork, your music, your other passions, you can explore and express yourself with more creativity and with more safety, you can build different skills for cooperation, for communication. So these are all advantages and they are of course cons that are
00:22:26
Speaker
you are more exposed to harmful explicit content, you are more exposed to online predators, you have a higher risk of severe bullying, you have more consequences such as depression, suicide, exposure to excessive advertisements, distractions, privacy, also concerns, difference with sleep, with exercise, with homework, with family activities and for parents and
00:22:49
Speaker
And for business, a good starting point would be ongoing conversations, listening to this podcast, reading Numeramesh, getting self-promotion, having conversations on digital citizenship. And this is the point of this podcast. This is the point of Numeramesh. What does it mean to be a digital citizen? How do we engage with the internet in a healthy and responsible way? So this is our purpose with this podcast. This is our purpose with the conversations we have. And because the metaversity eats
00:23:17
Speaker
early stage is the perfect time for us and for you to stay ahead
Disruptions and Opportunities in Industries
00:23:23
Speaker
of the curve. Maybe let's complete with what a leader should know. So there is a really good article of Mike Walsh that is explaining that the metaverse is more than a gold rush, it's an alchemical transformation in how the world works.
00:23:36
Speaker
Do you want to explain a bit more what really will be disrupted, how to reinvent customer experiences, create, engage community, unlock value creation, what the metaverse means for enterprise and what a leader should know about metaverse or about regulation?
00:23:54
Speaker
Do you want to share about also maybe who are the companies that are the most active? Some of you have spoken about Microsoft, I have spoken about Activision, we have spoken about Meta. There is of course NVIDIA that is everything related to infrastructure and hardware. There is Adobe, there is Unity, there is...
00:24:10
Speaker
by MW that is building a digital twin using Nvidia for the auto factories, there is the sandbox, the central land, Roblox, all the avatars and AI creation that you give a picture to an AI and automatically it creates your avatars. What are the digital content and experiences that we can expect? I'm curious to develop more this topic of who are the leaders
00:24:33
Speaker
shaping the metaverse and what the leader today should know and how businesses can explore
Business Innovations in the Metaverse
00:24:41
Speaker
the metaverse. I think businesses need to kind of look at how they can implement this new technology and how it can serve them. I mean a big part one of the things I was looking at was for example today I don't know if you want to buy a pair of glasses for example or you're looking at I don't know
00:25:03
Speaker
changing the floor in your house you usually have to go to a shop that specialized in that which will take you time and then you'll have to kind of think about it take a picture go home look at it but now you have the possibility of using your smartphone or other things to kind of project that and have a you can have like the glasses projected on yourself to kind of see how it would look same for things in your house
00:25:31
Speaker
So I think that's a big thing because it means for businesses, they'd be able to potentially save costs on all these physical stores and also reach a much larger audience. They'd be able to target people in their own homes. So I think that's quite powerful in itself, the whole marketing and communication part that
00:25:59
Speaker
that is now offered through this new tool to companies? Yeah, I totally agree with that, Sam. It will change a lot of things and let business innovate their way to communicate with the customer, innovate the customer experience. So that could be a really, really huge change. And I also think that
00:26:26
Speaker
The first company who will be huge in the metaverse are the biggest companies of today. Maybe I'm wrong.
Metaverse's Role in Various Sectors
00:26:33
Speaker
Maybe they will have an overall company who will burn from now. But yeah, I think Meta, Apple, the biggest company of the world right now will be the first big one in the metaverse also.
00:26:56
Speaker
For me there are 4 areas that I have found in Forbes and I will share also the article in the resources. One is entertainment, one is hybrid work places, one is e-commerce and the last one is real estate.
00:27:14
Speaker
e-commerce, I think we have seen it, Nike for example that is set to sell your trans sneakers and they will present this I think in the next NFT Paris event that is in one week or two.
00:27:30
Speaker
Gucci also created an exclusive digital pair of sneakers, the Gucci Virtual25, that can be worn in apps like Roblox. It's a big topic for the next level of customer service engagement marketing. Customers could try on products and make purchase decisions in a realistic, immersed environment.
00:27:51
Speaker
Regarding the entertainment at the onset of the pandemic we have seen a lot a lot of artists like Travis Scott, Ariana Grande that have taken turns testing the waters. This success depends on future entrepreneurial opportunities for those with a knife or art and music. We have
00:28:13
Speaker
worked with Censo, also that was collaborating with DJs. Hybrid workplaces, we have seen also Bill Gates, he calls the sentiment painting a picture of businesses using avatars to attend and interact in virtual company meetings.
00:28:30
Speaker
and projects in two to three years. The shift from 2D camera video to 3D cameras with avatars presents a new platform for businesses to collaborate and home meeting with avatar technology. People could interact with each other in an immersive, meaningful and realistic way from anywhere in the world.
00:28:49
Speaker
LinkedIn, Upwork, he breathe higher solutions, that includes virtual meeting rooms. It will come fast and strong. And last but not least, the real estate as New York Times articles.
Virtual Real Estate Trends
00:29:04
Speaker
was reaching there is a boom in the virtual real estate business. As inverters grab these pieces of digital representations of real estate that range from shopping malls and entertainment venues to other properties. It's really crazy. This I have always found it crazy people that bought this kind of land. It's coming and it's real and it's highly speculative.
00:29:26
Speaker
It's creating more than enough interest for different groups and businesses have become more realistic about their extended digital footprints and it's becoming evident that physical locations are no longer adequate for customers' interactions, especially when most of those customers spend more time online. The metaverse offers an enticing solution for this need for expansion by providing an expensive digital space where businesses can lease, release dates, sell products and hold interactive events
00:29:55
Speaker
Guys, I have something to ask you about the real estate. I mean, how can you imagine making... I know there is the business of real estate inside the metaverse, but you took as an example the mall or other examples, but how can you imagine making money
00:30:18
Speaker
Like, I mean, it all will be virtual. Imagine you are buying a space inside the metaverse. We can quote, I don't know, we can quote some bugs, we can quote over space inside the metaverse. You buy it, but you will never feel the same things than the reality. I mean, tomorrow,
00:30:42
Speaker
If I go to work, then I will wake up, go to the office, and then come back to home. So I will be able to sit on my sofa, look at the TV, for example. Okay, you will be able to do the same on your own space on the Metaverse. I totally agree with that. If you have a house or anything else, it's your space, you buy it.
00:31:08
Speaker
You will never, I mean, it's not physical, so what I want to ask you guys is what do you think about your brain,
Philosophical Views on Virtual Reality
00:31:22
Speaker
you know? What happened in your brain?
00:31:25
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if you got me, guys. Yeah, I totally understand what you mean. Obviously, I think, so just to bounce off what Bully said, I think there are ways you can monetize your land and property within the metaverse. It can be, it can be like a tax of people being there, or if you built something on it that brought people, they'd have to pay, or you'd get a certain allocation of the resources or deals, transactions that are made within your land.
00:31:54
Speaker
um kind of like you know it's like a tax kind of like in the medieval times uh but to hop off what you said you i agree so it's really hard to get get this because there is a disconnect between obviously the reality what you know is physically real and like you can feel things like on on the touch on your skin you're lying down on a sofa then just being somewhere and visually
00:32:23
Speaker
feeling it. But I think as we go more into it, it will become more of a grey line and your brain might be less able to distinguish reality versus
00:32:40
Speaker
virtuality but I think it is it is quite quite scary in a way it's like when you see in the movies where everybody I think there's what is it Ready Player One so it's a movie where this guy he puts on the headset boom he's in the metaverse in like a video game or whatever and he's he's totally immersed he's living things and what happens to him
00:33:06
Speaker
in the game he can he can do things that he can't do in real life like he can die you'll just respawn or whatever but whatever happens in real life affects him in the virtual world you know and it and at the end it and it like kind of all tangles up because there's some some kind of let's say geopolitical
00:33:33
Speaker
stuff that makes it so the two worlds become intertwined. It is a very tricky one. It's a question of perception and it comes back to, I think, what you were saying about what Ellen Musk recently said about exploring, like, are we living today in a simulation? If we're living today in a simulation, what stops us from living in a simulation tomorrow, you know?
00:34:02
Speaker
I think it's a bit of a philosophical debate that we've got here. There is this and there is for me the profit that at the end what matters is where the people are. If people are in the Manhattan in Superworld, so Superworld I can share the website, it's superworldapp.com
00:34:23
Speaker
I don't know, to be honest, the stage of the company. It's, as I should say, it's new for us in numero mesh. So we will educate ourselves first and don't pretend to be expert of the metaverse, but we want to become and help companies to get the knowledge about that. Yeah, what I wanted to say is that
00:34:46
Speaker
you can buy locations that you love whether it's in Central Park or the pyramids in Egypt and what matters is where the people are in the metaverse so if they are in the central land it's expensive if they are in the super world it's expensive and brands will want to be there to sell items to buy stores and people that are
00:35:13
Speaker
developing this metaverse lens. Pretend that buying at this stage is hugely lucrative because it will become more expensive in the future such as the real estate in the real world. So what matters at the end is the need for large corporations
00:35:32
Speaker
they will need to be present in the Metaverse in the same way they need a website. This is Andrew Kigel, that is the CEO of tokens.com on Smurf 2.5 million real estate investment in Decentraland. So I can also share the link, it was in CNN. So this is what matters for me. There is also an article in VOG about the Metaverse Fashion Week. Yeah, I mean, one of the things
00:36:01
Speaker
You know, that we're seeing the whole, you know, I'm, I'm still thinking about what you said. So it's really, really, really playing on my mind here. So, but I think, you know, in, in the metaverse, obviously, you know, if you're looking to feel something, I think there are like body suits that you can put on where you do feel, you can feel like touch or, or stuff like that. Um, I've got to find what it's called, but
00:36:30
Speaker
I'm sure that does exist to kind of bounce back off what you said.
00:36:35
Speaker
But yeah, property in the metaverse will always be expensive, where people are, obviously, because it's the basic supply and demand. There is also a report by Grayscale, everyone is speaking about Graysale today, that estimates that the digital world may grow into a 1 trillion business in the near future. Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, I have already said, DJ Marshmello,
00:37:03
Speaker
Paris Hilton deejayed a New Year's Eve party on her own virtual Iceland
00:37:10
Speaker
Kegel's company recently dropped nearly 2.5 million on a patch of land in the central land, one of several popular metaverse worlds, so we have spoken about the central land. Prices have gone up 400% to 500% in the last few months, so we are speaking about real money here. Another hot metaverse world is the sandbox, where Janin, Euro's Eurotran Red Estate Development Company, a Republic rarer, spent a record 4.3 million on
00:37:37
Speaker
a parcel of virtual land, it's a risky investment, of course, so the digital world to some is as important as the real world. It's not about what you and I believe in, but it's about what the future does. This is what the Miami-based really state broker and the next understand is CNBC. There are areas when you first go into the metaverse where people congregate. Those areas would certainly be a lot more valuable than the areas that don't have any events going on.
00:38:07
Speaker
Think about the board game Monopoly, we just bought Boardwalk and the surrounding area. Kiger said areas where people congregate are far more valuable for advertisers and retailers to find ways to get in there to access that demographic. So yeah, I think it absolutely matters who your neighbor is.
00:38:32
Speaker
It's a euro that's kind of true of almost anything right, it's like a club and you want to be around people that share similar interests. It's highly risky, you should only invest capital that you are prepared to lose, it's highly speculative, it's also blockchain based and as we all know crypto is highly relative
00:38:50
Speaker
but it can also be massively rewarding. And then the last thing that I wanted to share about this article, Mark Stapp, Professor and Director for Red Estate Theory and Practice at Arizona State University, agrees. I would not put money into this that I didn't care about losing, I certainly wouldn't.
00:39:07
Speaker
If it continues the way it's going, it's more likely going to be a bubble. You are buying something that isn't tied to reality. So I think it can be really interesting that you develop a bit more your point because I'm not sure to have understood it. And I think that if I'm not sure to have understood it, then maybe other people that are listening to us maybe are not really aware of what you were, what the idea you were presenting and what also some you were saying, I would like you guys to develop a bit more.
00:39:35
Speaker
Yeah, I was definitely talking about the spirits. So, I mean, if you are in a world, in a virtual world, and you cannot feel the things like in the real world, I mean, yeah, it means that it's a bit philosophy, but it means that it's all about the spirits, the spirit of your body. So, and that's linked to,
00:40:03
Speaker
to what Elon Musk thinks about we are currently living in a simulation.
00:40:18
Speaker
If we have our body, if we can feel everything, etc., at the end it's only the spirits of your mind, of your body, the spirits of each human, and then you just move the spirits into another world.
00:40:36
Speaker
like the Sims gameplay, you know? I think it's... I just want to say this really makes me think of... I don't know if you know Descartes, so he's got a quite popular saying that says, Je pense dans je suis, which means I think therefore I am. And I think that can be applied here. I think it's just a mindset kind of thing. Okay, I got that. So as long as you...
00:41:05
Speaker
believe, to live in the physical world or in the metaverse world, you decide and it's just a matter of perspective. When you think of it, it's not that ludicrous of an idea. I mean, nowadays you look at people, I mean, the world's going all over the place. People are making things up saying, I don't know, saying that they're cats or whatever.
00:41:34
Speaker
And for them, that is reality. Reality is what you construct it to be. And therefore, if you believe strongly enough in it, and there's a consensus of that, like a majority of people believe that it will become the new reality, it is the norm. So I don't think it's that strange of an idea.
00:42:02
Speaker
Okay, thank you for clarifying guys. So it has been quite some time that we are speaking What about if we speak about ownership system? So how it's linked to crypto to blockchain? I want to share on some experience with a web tree metaverse event. So quickly I Went to a forum for job. It was a job fair and
00:42:29
Speaker
and I had an avatar, I could move with the keyboard of my computer and I was going into rooms where there were binars, when there were other companies that I don't remember, I'm sorry. And it was really nice, so depending on the rooms that I was entering, I can connect with people via a meeting, classic meeting, the webcam of the person and my webcam. So it was a really nice experience. If you don't mind, let's speak.
00:42:57
Speaker
a little bit about the link with the crypto. So why is crypto needed? Why is blockchain needed for the ownership? And then let's speak a little bit about regulation and let's conclude. I think, of course, the blockchain will be related to in order to prove the ownership, to prove the authenticity of things, et cetera, about the cryptocurrency. To be honest, I'm not sure.
00:43:26
Speaker
There will be digital currency for sure, but talking about cryptocurrency like Bitcoin or anything else inside the metaverse, I mean, not totally sure if it will be directly related, you know, you just have to put digital currency inside this world.
00:43:54
Speaker
and then to create a new sociality, you know, but yeah. Question, who created the world? Who created the world and who's going to put the rule for what's the currency that's to be used?
Governance and Societal Structures in the Metaverse
00:44:09
Speaker
Most probably it's something that's going to be to the world creator's advantage.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. No matter if it's in the metaverse or not. Who needs to create a crypto? No, that's a good question, to be honest, because imagine if we take, okay, let's take the sandbox, or I mean, we can take the metaverse of meta, okay? So, it includes that meta will be the government of this metaverse, but if everyone are living inside this space,
00:44:42
Speaker
then who will decide the rules, who will be the government, who will be the
00:44:50
Speaker
the monetary provider, etc. It's really interesting, you know. If tomorrow we live in a kind of metaverse, who will be the police? Who will say, okay, there are some rules, so you have to respect this, this, this. You have to think about an entire new society. You want to be the one that creates the world. You want to be the government.
00:45:20
Speaker
But for example, also, do we need an army or police people inside the metaverse? Do we need rules inside the metaverse? Because look, at the moment, I mean, okay, if we go in deep in this kind of sociality, okay, let's say in, I don't know, 20 years, okay, it's become
00:45:41
Speaker
democratize, et cetera, et cetera. And then in 100 years after the first real metaverse, do you think people will be able to steal something to another one? No, technically no, because there is the blockchain. Do you think you will be able to kill someone in the metaverse? Technically, no.
00:46:05
Speaker
why is the police or the army necessary, you know? But we cannot imagine that there will be some war inside the border. Exactly. Who will be the army also? Some war or some content? Some content. Imagine someone that is, let's say you are in the central land or you are even without taking an example of a company. You are in the Boris metaverse, let's say.
00:46:34
Speaker
At the end, it's Boris that decide what kind of content can be displayed on the advertising...
00:46:42
Speaker
It's a bus station kind of thing, you know what I mean? And if you consider that the content is violent or the content is not for children or just you don't want to see this content, of course you have the choice to leave the metaverse. But it's a big question. At the end, it's the owner of the place. It's the same question if you ask me in my flat.
00:47:11
Speaker
I will put something that is not authorized in the street or I will put a violent content. The blockchain for that. So technically, you will be not able. I mean, even if you are in your own metaverse, in this case, okay, because you own the walls of your metaverse. So if we follow that point, it means that each metaverse will be equal to a country.
00:47:41
Speaker
So, for example, you will have the metallurgy of Descentraland, of the sandbox, etc. And we can compare it with different countries in our current world. And then, okay, we can imagine that at a point, Descentraland will want to, I mean, it's just as an example, will want to
00:48:08
Speaker
take ownership of the sandbox. So they will be, I don't know, imagine, able to create a war to take the ownership of the sandbox. But everything is working on the network. So, I mean, it's based on the blockchain. We are talking about networks, software, etc.
00:48:33
Speaker
You know, I mean, a simple human will not be able to change the world, so... Yeah, I don't know if you got me, guys.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's
Internet Laws and Metaverse Governance
00:48:43
Speaker
really interesting. It's really interesting at the end. It's it's I agree with what you say The only thing is that for the moment? The ownership is and it's the same with crypto and is the same with internet. I build the website Who can who can decide to shut down the website who is internet belonging to etc, etc. So it's a big debate and
00:49:07
Speaker
That's why they restore, we will not develop about the dark part of the internet because it's really not all point and we are really not focusing on that and for me it's a kind of losing my time to let's say try to build a website that is not legal but it's really interesting to understand what are the rules for the website construction today in France for example or in Spain.
00:49:34
Speaker
I'm sorry, but I don't totally agree at all. Because you said, I don't want to build a website who will be not legal. But if we follow our current discussion concerning the metaverse, it's illegal or legal, depending of the guy or the group of person or the company who creates the rules of it. So in this case, it's the network.
00:50:04
Speaker
So today, if you create a website on the dark web on Tor, for example, it's illegal because some people decide of it, but you can build a normal website on the darknet just because there is some
00:50:25
Speaker
you know, some governments who don't allow you to share some kind of information in your country. So you just want to let other people of the world know about your current, about the current situation. It can be political, about a war, about anything else. So it's the same things that we talk about for the metaverse.
00:50:51
Speaker
You've got the whole ethos, the ethical part of it. I just want to say, as a disclaimer, Tor isn't bad. It isn't all bad. Obviously, you've got the Clear Web, Deep Web and Dark Web, which is a small part, but I think it is a good invention, let's say. The thing is not in legal or legal to create on Tor or in the classic Internet.
00:51:18
Speaker
So for me, there are two different things. There is one, we are speaking for France, we are speaking for Spain, we are speaking for Malta, we are speaking for Scotland. I think that in these countries, there is no need to build a website into, you know, in my case, I have never got the need to say, okay, my BorisNedache.com or numeroamesh.com needs to be built in the system because it will get shut down.
00:51:46
Speaker
I'm speaking in a, let's say, democratic, or even if some people would say France is not a democracy, but I don't want to get into this kind of concentration. But what I mean is that the world web has conventions.
00:52:09
Speaker
who has decided are the people that invent the internet, basically more or less, if we want to keep it simple for people to want to know. And these people decide. You cannot build a numerical website with violent content. You cannot publish a video of a violent thing. It's the same kind of thing for YouTube, for Facebook, for content that will say
00:52:31
Speaker
you have to have this age to consume this content it's the same thing for video games so at some point there are a consensus of people that decide and say okay this film or this movie is only for people older than them this video is only for people older than this and so this is speaking about web2 now the question is
00:52:52
Speaker
What makes the difference between web 2 and the metaverse? It will be the same with the metaverse, then. I mean, imagine we each create a metaverse. And I will say, okay, I don't recognize the metaverse of Boris and Sam. Only mine is legit. And then you will say the same for Boris and Sam will say the same for its metaverse also. So at the end, we will say, okay,
00:53:20
Speaker
just my metaverse is legit so if you go in another metaverse you will not able to come back in my metaverse and I mean at the end it's the creator or the group of people or the convention or the you know the company who will be the owner a kind of cheater if I mean we can say in one end it's a kind of cheats and yes it's the same for internet today and it's the same for each country you know
00:53:50
Speaker
Yeah, but for example, so if we speak about content, conduct, and safety, I will share the lower article. There is in the European, the Digital Services Act.
00:54:03
Speaker
that established a regulatory regime that requires platforms to manage the risks that illegal and harmful content and activity may pose to users and society. So, conduct such as harassment or bullying can lead to harms in their mind, the safety of the experience. In the United States, it's the same. Communications Decency Act
00:54:27
Speaker
There are lawyers and lawmakers that are pushing for this immunity to be scaled back. There are, of course, always pros and cons, but there are laws and rules that are created to protect the brands, to support positive experiences for the users while establishing responses in case any causes problems.
00:54:54
Speaker
already a topic for social media, it's already a topic for user generating content services, multiplayer video games and I guess it will continue
00:55:06
Speaker
to be addressed because there is conduct, privacy, trade issues, also tax and finance issues. So let's continue to speak about that with lawyers. I'll let you guys conclude some ensures on that on the conduct and safety, on the regulatory focus for the privacy, for the trade, for the
00:55:32
Speaker
the risk, the regulators, the protection, the different considerations. I let you guys conclude about that and then let's invite the lawyers or different people, let's try to invite them.
00:55:56
Speaker
Yeah, so I think obviously, I mean, we've talked about quite a couple things today.
Reflection on the Metaverse Discussion
00:56:00
Speaker
And on this topic, I mean, obviously, great new tool innovation technology, but then like everything, it depends who controls it and whose hands it is and what is done. And that really is what shapes its use at the end of the day. So I think it would be interesting to get lawyers or
00:56:22
Speaker
people that are more knowledgeable on the legal side of things on this podcast, if there are out there. Yeah, exactly. If you like our podcast, don't hesitate to give us some money to be able to buy your Apple Vision Pro each, and then we will be able to leave our Q&A on social IT and make the next podcast in the metaverse.
00:56:48
Speaker
It was a really interesting topic. We can go a lot in deep in terms of political, ethical aspect also. We can go in deep about the privacy, the ownership. It's a really interesting subject to talk about. I'm just trying to think about the next generation, even if it's in one, two, three, four, five generations.
00:57:18
Speaker
Imagine people who will wake up or stay in their bed and just put a kind of mask, you know, like the Apple Visual Pro. And it's not, by the way, we are not doing any advertising for Apple. But yeah, imagine just
00:57:41
Speaker
passing your whole day with something on your head and just living in another world, in a digital world, yes, if I can, in a kind of simulation. It's super, super interesting and super affraying at the same time. But I mean, I'm someone who like the innovation, we have to go to go ahead.
00:58:08
Speaker
Yeah, let's see what what will happen with this kind of thing of things. Don't forget that everything that the first stage are just kind of ID. So, for example, Bitcoin in 2008, 2009 was an idea and today we are
00:58:27
Speaker
It's another topic, but we are far away from the basis of Bitcoin. It was the same for internet, for example. Yes, it was the same for the computer also. So, I mean, everything we will evolve.
00:58:46
Speaker
And yeah, maybe it will be super freeing in 100 years. People will say, oh, if we know we had never created a metaverse, but today it can be a kind of solution for different aspects, dangerous aspects of our current sociality. I'm talking about too much things, about the weather, about
00:59:16
Speaker
I lost my word, so I will let you... The climate change? Yeah, the climate change, about the war, etc.
00:59:26
Speaker
Today, we are thinking about that, and some people like Mark Zuckerberg think metaverse will improve the society, the human race. But it was the same with Apple, for example. And today, we have a lot of problems in terms of privacy, data, advertising, et cetera.
00:59:54
Speaker
I mean, today we are the product of the internet, so it's all about the time we passed on internet looking at advertising, eating content, etc. So yeah, I think you got my point, guys.
01:00:14
Speaker
Question of the point of view on which side are you looking to the things you can say that internet and every innovation after the computer.
01:00:26
Speaker
was amazing and you can sit on the other side and say yeah it was amazing but we also create a lot of problem that we didn't add before so I think it will be the same of the metaverse okay guys thank you julie for that thank you Boris I think this was quite an informative podcast I myself have learned quite a bit I mean we touched on the realm of metaverse a bit of philosophical
01:00:54
Speaker
legal security takes and all of that kind of mixed together. I think it was quite interesting. I hope you guys found it interesting and we'll find you next week for another podcast with Build. See you guys.