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Max introduces James Keblas as the future host of Crossing the Axis. Get to know James and how he plans to lead the show moving forward. Max shares his thoughts and observations on the video production business after three years building the Pipeline tech-tool for video production companies and running his own video production company for over 15 years.
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Transcript
Introduction of New Host, James Kevlis
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome podcast listeners. You are tuned in to a special episode of Crossing the Axis.
00:00:06
Speaker
That's because the show's founder and host for the past two years, Max Kaiser, is stepping out and handing over the microphone to me, James Kevlis. In this transition episode, Max starts us off with an update on Pipeline and shares with you what it was like trying to build the tech startup. Spoiler alert, he doesn't recommend trying it. He also introduces me and shares his trust for what I will and hopefully will not do with the show.
00:00:34
Speaker
I consider an honor and a responsibility to be the new host for Crossing the Axis. And while you will hear some variations in future episodes, Max's mission to provide you with practical and applicable business advice will continue to be my focus too. I hope you enjoy our conversation and I look forward to helping you succeed in the production business. Now, onto the show.
Decision to Shut Down Pipeline
00:01:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Crossing the Axis, the business of the business of video production. It has been a while since we have been on the show. It's been almost exactly a year since my last podcast with Alan Nay. You're probably wondering what the hell happened to me and to the show. Well, it's been a difficult time.
00:01:27
Speaker
But it has been a good time. But we did decide to have to shut down Pipeline. The software that was really the reason that I began the podcast was sort of just to get to meet more folks that might want to use Pipeline and be interested in Pipeline. That was the reason for its genesis anyway.
00:01:48
Speaker
But the fact is, running a software company was sort of a major endeavor that needed a lot of investment and a lot more than I was able to put into it. And after three years of pummeling money and time into it, I simply decided it was no longer something that I wanted to do or to raise investment for. But the best part while I was creating Pipeline was doing the show, doing Crossing the Axis.
00:02:15
Speaker
And all the great people I got to talk to to meet with that I really hadn't had a chance to while I guess maybe I thought I was in competition with them or something like that. But after this last year, I still was getting downloads of the show. I still was having people reach out to me to say how much the show meant to them. They were glad to have it out there.
00:02:39
Speaker
One of the people that reached out to me was James Kevlis. James Kevlis is an old friend of mine from the industry. He has been involved in nearly every aspect of the industry over the years. He said, you know, that was a great show. Would you consider handing the keys over to someone that wants to take it over and keep that flame alive?
00:03:01
Speaker
Well, I've got James on the show today and he is willing to do that. He's going to do that. And we're just going to, this, what the show's all going to be about is handing those keys over. And James had like to welcome you onto the show now. Hello, Max. James is offered to carry the show on, which is for me, the greatest, most, uh,
00:03:24
Speaker
Flattering thing I could ever imagine because I really wanted the show to go on but I I I have no longer really in the video production world and I But I couldn't be more excited because the show keeps getting downloads and it should should be carried on and he's offered to Take take it on. So this is absolutely fantastic. So I thought maybe we could just back up for a second and And and if you don't know James just get to know him for a second James you have done so much
James Kevlis's Background and Vision
00:03:54
Speaker
in the film video production sphere, starting back in 2005, your director of Seattle's office of film and music, then you go on to be the president of Creature, which, you know, I know when I was starting my production, I'm really like, oh man, Creature's a big,
00:04:09
Speaker
Fantastic company will never be like them doing campaigns for Dickey Seattle Opera, Alaska Airlines, Brooks, all these fabulous companies we all want to work with. And then over to the video software world of share grid software that you don't know is just a fantastic way to rent your gear and get it out there. And it was a really is a really unique company that grew out of the Seattle area. And there is the you were doing biz dev for share grid or I'm sorry, it was
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah. I was the director of growth for share grid early, early stages of just a small group of people doing a startup as, as you know, tech startup. And then finally the biz dev general manager at all is well, who we've had Tony Fulgram. I think someone else's name, who I, I, I absolutely, uh, terrible. Exactly. On the show, uh, as well. Um, and that was a great show about creativity and production. Anyway, all this phew.
00:05:10
Speaker
James, what ties all this together?
00:05:13
Speaker
Well, before I answer that question, Max, I really want to tip my hat off to you. I'm not going to let you get out that easy. We're not going to transfer it that easy. I just want to say that how much I admire what you've done here. And a great part about why I'm excited about taking over the hosting responsibilities of the show is to continue the legacy that you've built. And you've had some great conversations. You've done some great work. I feel an honor to have known you. And I also feel a little bit of guilt. I feel
00:05:41
Speaker
I feel like I'm one of those people that maybe contributed to just coming up short for pipeline because I was running a production company and you were hammering me, hey, come and check out our stuff. My crew, they all say, God, we need something that's better for scheduling and better for budgeting. I said, well, let's just try Max's thing and finally got around to it. You were saying, yeah, I'm going to wrap it up. Man, God, how many people are like me that didn't do it.
00:06:09
Speaker
I have a lot of respect for people who take risks and try things and just go out there and try to solve a problem, especially when that problem is bigger than just themselves or more than just money.
00:06:25
Speaker
And I thought that's what you did with Pipeline. You were really trying to solve a problem. You took a really strong kind of novel tech approach to it. Having worked in share grid and doing the startup thing around film, I understood what you were going through personally. I know how hard it is.
00:06:44
Speaker
And watching you do it, I just have a lot of admiration for that. And when you came up short, I thought, oh, you know, a lot of great people come up short. I've come up short and many of us have come up short, but it doesn't take away the great work that you did put in there. And I also want to say there's a lot of reason you came up short had to do with the pandemic. A bad timing, I think, is a big part of that. And I think you should remember that because if it was a different time, I think you probably would have
00:07:11
Speaker
been able to take it all the way across but anyway when i heard you were doing it and uh and then i said well what the hell is going on with the podcast like what are you going to do with that that was a little treasure a little asset for us and you kind of had no plans for and i went i'll i'll take it over i'm
00:07:28
Speaker
I'm stepping out into the consulting world. I'm stepping out into kind of trying to help, you know, video production companies and commercial film production companies grow. And I thought the conversations that you had were important and I think they should continue. And so, you know, you and I talked and you were into it. I like the idea of keeping your legacy. And I know a lot of these people that are on the show, I mean, I'll get Tony on there and Alan and I go way back and work together, many other people in the Pacific Northwest that
00:07:55
Speaker
I know. And I just think that you've had some really honest conversations. I thought the transparency and the candor was refreshing and nobody was protecting, you know, their little fiefdom or anything like that. You really brought out some nice stuff. And I think that's a good practical advice that needs to continue to happen. So that's, that's, I just want to make sure that I said, cause I have a lot of respect for what you've done and it's real honor to be able to take it over.
Advice for Non-Tech Entrants in Tech Industry
00:08:22
Speaker
I appreciate it, man, on every front. I would add to the demise of Pipeline was simply that I think it probably could have continued. I also realized I really don't love tech. I just was like, I love video production. I did it for so many years. I had a video production company when I was in fifth grade, and I think I had some form of it all the way through. Handcrank lasted 15 years.
00:08:48
Speaker
But honestly, that was the only one that was really financially successful. But honestly, tech I was in for three years. And within about a year and a half, I realized that sitting in a lonely room, writing coders in Bangladesh to do your bidding, it's just not that great. It was just sort of my dream to help people build the technological moat that they needed to help make their companies more successful.
00:09:18
Speaker
lives on. I hope someone figures it out. And I think there actually are a few people that are doing a better job than we were and that have raised a ton more money than we ever tried. Actually, I never tried raising any money. But I just will say that tech was not really, it's not, there's not enough people stuff going on in it for me.
00:09:39
Speaker
Right. So for anyone that, um, is working in video production and they have a big bright idea around doing some tech tool or some solution like that you had, and you're like, Oh, I could solve this for all. What do you say to them in that moment? I mean, I would just, I would just say really dive in and research and talk to people. And I did the research and it showed me the numbers of how much it was going to cost. And I just flat out didn't believe it. I was just like, Oh, I can figure it out. I can do it cheaper than that. I can figure it out. In fact, I doubled their numbers.
00:10:09
Speaker
I was about a half million into it by the time that I finally said uncle. Honestly, you're just constantly writing checks and you're constantly waiting for something to be delivered to you. If you're a tech founder, great, go for it. I would really say that if you're not a tech person, you're going to have a very hard time understanding why everything is so much harder to do than you could have ever thought and everyone is telling you.
00:10:37
Speaker
something is going to get done and it then doesn't get done and you can't understand why. It's very difficult. As video people, I think nearly all of us started at some point just holding a camera and doing the work ourselves, doing the editing ourselves, and then we sort of grew from there. Certainly, that's my story.
00:10:57
Speaker
And so you understand how long somebody should take to edit. You understand how long a video shoot should take and how much it should cost because you did it all and you know where corners can be cut. Man, when you get into tech, you don't know these things. And so it's just very difficult and very frustrating to do it.
00:11:15
Speaker
If you love tech, go nuts. If you love video, you might want to stick with that. Right. Smart words. And now you're no longer in the film production business at all, right? I'm not, actually. I thought about it and I just decided, honestly, I didn't want to go start another video production company. I felt that I had sort of said what I wanted and done. We did over 750 videos with Handcrank.
00:11:39
Speaker
a number of the people that work with me went and started their own companies and they were already taking off and doing great. I certainly didn't want to be competition for them. I probably couldn't have even done what I did without them.
00:11:54
Speaker
I've always had our family involved in investments, and I'd always been one foot in that, always an owner of that company. I just said, that's a world that I have never gotten into as much as I wanted to, financial and investing. I had some great opportunity to jump in there. I just said, I'm looking for something new.
00:12:19
Speaker
I still have some ideas of things I want to produce on the more speculative side of things. That is like a reality TV show, maybe a short film. I still am very interested on that side of things, just probably not in the video production for the world that Crossing the Axis was developed to talk about, which is the world of making it a business that you can live.
00:12:44
Speaker
You know that can pay the bills that you can raise a family on that you can enjoy And do creative work, but also make a living and have a regular income These are the key credentials that for me going into hand cranking had to achieve and that's what I was really trying to do with the show crossing the axis is help people to To find the way from just being creatives to be doing creatives that could successfully run a video production business
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's probably what gets me the most excited about it too. You know, when I got my start into this business, when, like you said, when I became the director, basically the film commissioner for the city of Seattle, and, and, you know, we're overseeing permits and trying to attract productions and all of this kind of stuff. And I really got to know,
00:13:29
Speaker
the people at the front lines. And Seattle is not a motion picture town, right? It's not an episodic town. It's not any of that narrative stuff for the most part. And, but what we do have here is we have corporate titans everywhere. And we have all these businesses. And as a result of that, we have a lot of commercial business. And I just became close with that world. And I remember one time we were
00:13:51
Speaker
Uh, doing, it was a feature film we had brought to town. We'd want it. It was a 21 and over. It was like a college comedy romp. I don't know if you remember that or not, but we brought them to town and I was meeting with the producer and making sure that they have everything they need. They're going to make this feature here. And I go up to him like this by a week before production was about to happen. And I go out and say, Hey Pat, how's it going? And he goes, well, it's fine. Except I, you know, you got a crew problem.
00:14:16
Speaker
I'm like, what are you talking? I had a crew, probably a great crew. And he goes, no, but they, you have good crew. They just don't want to work for me. They, you know, they only want to work in commercials. And I went, what's, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, they only want to do commercials. They don't want to do feature films. And I was like, okay. So I kind of put that in my back pocket there and.
00:14:31
Speaker
I went back to everybody, a bunch of people I knew in the unions and in production companies and all this kind of stuff. And I talked to a lot of people going, hey, I heard this rumor that you actually don't want to do these. And they all went, yeah, we like commercials. And I went, then why the hell am I out here trying to hustle for feature films all the time? And losing most of the time, by the way. And so I thought, well, why don't we change it up?
00:14:56
Speaker
got a bunch of people around the table and said, what would you really like? And that's where we created the commercialized Seattle campaign. I don't know if you remember that or not, but I remember it well. Yeah. So it was the commercialized Seattle and it was all about bringing in commercial production here and talking to agencies and production companies. And we offered incentives. We created the thing called the commercialized either, which was a artificial AI, artificial artificial intelligence.
00:15:22
Speaker
um the uh where we you know some creative could put in their you know script with some locations and or you know so they're they're they're kind of a cliche idea along with some locations and I would pop a script and we had a lot of fun with it and
00:15:37
Speaker
and really had success. And that's when I got to know the commercial side even more and liked it. And as I started talking to these folks and just realizing that was a legitimate way to make money, like it was a legitimate way to make a living and, and to, and to really,
00:15:55
Speaker
have a long run at it, and there was sustainability in it, and it was what many places outside of LA and New York could do. And so that was my eye opener to the whole thing, and that's what led me into the agencies, and then was what led me into ShareGrid, and then I got to know the production community on a scale, never even imagined, hundreds of thousands of members at ShareGrid and growing that community and launching all the cities and things like that, and then watching what they were doing and how they could make a living.
00:16:25
Speaker
then running a film studio, commercial film studio for the past couple of years and helping a few others. And learning a lot from other people and how they're doing it and then applying it and seeing what worked and what doesn't work and growing a company. And I think there's a lot to be shared there. I think we're kind of in a
00:16:48
Speaker
video moment where video has been happening for a while now. It's been increasing in volume. And I think the prices did go down and they probably are continuing to go down for the services that clients want. But I also think there's a maturity happening right now where a lot of these people believe that
00:17:06
Speaker
they are smarter than the people that are hiring them and they're starting, they've got enough experience and they have an own point of view and own belief and they're going to want to do something on that. And there's enough, there's a critical mass of that now, I think, where, okay, so if we can really figure out how to create these sustainable businesses, it's worth figuring that out and sharing that information. And that's, that's my path and what I hope to do from what you've built and the conversations you have and what I've experienced and put in what I see others doing into sharing that.
00:17:35
Speaker
Man, that is going to be, I mean, that, that's fantastic. And quite frankly, I think that's as I, you know, you and I've talked about this offline and I, I think that's actually a much, you know, in making pipeline, look, I was really successful with a hand crank to the, at least from my point of view, like I was happy with that. We were doing about 1.75 mil a year for about three or four years running.
00:18:02
Speaker
Um, and, and, and, and by the way, James taking over the show, one thing I will say is try to get people to talk dollars, man. Don't let them dive around it. You know, like you've got to, like, I always been like, when I would talk to people before the show, I would say,
00:18:17
Speaker
I just want to say to you that I just want you to know that I'm going to ask you about specifics on your financials and I need you to answer me honestly and if you're not comfortable with that I'm not sure we should do the show because everyone is so sick of having everyone dance around their goddamn numbers and so I really do think it's important
Financial Transparency in Video Production
00:18:40
Speaker
that guests know that they're going to be hit on those and that they should be ready to talk about it. Frankly, most people really were, and that was what was awesome, but I do think that's what made the show special. I got people to talk about their margins. I got people to talk about their profit. I got people to talk about those really critical areas and not be shy about them.
00:19:04
Speaker
This fundamental part of the business that drives me crazy and always has, and that's the idea that business itself is a bad word in the video world. That's hurting us. That hurts us. That's not us exercising our best.
00:19:20
Speaker
foot forward because we deserve to be the only way we're going to get the financial enumeration we want out of our work is if we accept and believe in the fact that we deserve it and that we have the means to get there and that it's okay to talk about business. It's okay to talk about dollars and cents just as any other community
00:19:42
Speaker
I just want to mention that that was always a little bit scary for me to mention to people because I was so excited they agreed to be on the show. And then I'd be like, okay, but here's the deal. You have to be willing to talk about the dollars because that's what people really need to hear about.
00:19:57
Speaker
Well, I know exactly what you're talking about. I heard that in many of the episodes that you have in the past and it is what I liked about it and we'll continue to keep it going. I mean, I'm interested in that too. I mean, I think the being more specific is better. Being really direct is better. And I think so often people aren't that way because they're insecure. Insecure comes from lack of experience and lack of experience comes from lack of...
00:20:22
Speaker
not knowing things. So no one's afraid to, everyone's afraid to say something because they don't know enough about it. And so it's just like, my interest is in demystifying these specifics as much as possible and just laying it all on the table. And I'm not, I hope, and I think what you've done is, is, is honorable in that you've really
00:20:41
Speaker
getting people to understand that they don't have to be protective of these things. Because if we're all doing better, if we're all practicing, doing these better practices, and we all do better, it will serve everyone better. I mean, I think that's, that's the key here. And what I hope to keep going as well is just sharing the secrets and the pro tips and the inside knowledge elevates the quality, it elevates what we can expect clients to pay.
00:21:09
Speaker
And my theory on that too is it increases the quality of the work because you're getting more money. So you'll do better work and you'll feel more of an expectation or an obligation rather to really help the clients meet their goals. And clients are happy to pay. My theory, my experience is that if you could help a client meet their goals, they're happy to pay. Absolutely. And they'll come back. I mean, that's the other thing is like, you know, as we moved up the ladder of pay from, you know,
00:21:35
Speaker
Joe's local car dealership to take capital one you know along that route you know it was it what we what i found was that yes the creativity. Element was obviously paramount and very high and of course you're only you're always gonna be judged on your portfolio that you have online but at the.
00:21:57
Speaker
But the thing that sealed the deal and then also always brought them back with your delivery on that work in terms of a business that's on budget on script that you know that things happen the only clients we ever lost is when we not when we blew it creatively but when we blew it on the business side for one reason or another which did happen and so that is.
00:22:21
Speaker
The key is we used to always say we like to think of ourselves as 50% creatives and 50% just like a bank and that we're that boring and keeping it that boring. Of course, banks have got a lot more interesting over the years, but at the time, we were the old kind of bank, the boring bank.
00:22:40
Speaker
Those things are really critical as you move up the line and the numbers get quantumly bigger. That's something I really hope you'll cover more in the show that I never got to was how scary it gets when you start doing $250,000, $300,000 productions and how tricky it gets in terms. You've had more experience than I have with this. I only touched that market
00:23:02
Speaker
a little bit in our last few years. We did a national for Zulily. We did some nationals for Capital One. We did some other stuff. But we kind of just dallyed in the union stuff. And we weren't really there. You've been there a lot more. So it's going to be very exciting to hear what you're able to bring to that because everybody wants to know about that. That's like the shrouded secret mist that no one knows about. And you'll be amazed.
00:23:27
Speaker
at how many people I've talked about it with and they said, you know, I went into that world and I came right back out because it's so terrifying when the numbers are so terrifying.
00:23:37
Speaker
Let me ask you then, what, what is it you think is so scary about it or what you said, there's a little danger in that, that scale. What are you talking about? When you get into that scale, just the, the liabilities, uh, are, are, are, are scary. Um, you, the, the, the fact that so much money, often the agency will have, will figure out a way to get the production company to act as the bank.
00:24:00
Speaker
Um, this is really unfortunate and you wind up holding the bag on a lot of, uh, you know, there's a lot of money that just has to go out at the outset of a big production like that. You know, how do you arrange your deal with the agency to make sure that, you know, you get that money first before you put it out? Well, a lot of times that's not the way it happens because you're so goddamn excited to get the work. And so you might make a deal that is not in your best interest. And my experience was the agencies always came through.
00:24:28
Speaker
But sometimes, specifically back in the mid-2012s, 2015s, you probably remember this change, it was like there was some kind of crush on agencies where they didn't have any cash flow. And so we were all kind of playing this weird cash flow game. And that's just a very dangerous place to get into. And then the production's like, oh, let's have a motorcycle jumping over something. Holy crap. Sounds like a great thing.
00:24:53
Speaker
fun, exciting idea until the motorcycle crashes. And then you've got some major liabilities and concerns. So those are the things I'm talking about that are just a lot scarier as you move up the line. And then, of course, you have a $300,000 budget that, you know, you get so excited about until you start realizing that, you know, a third of it or more is going to the talent or going all these other places. Very quickly, you can find yourself with not much left over at the end of the production if you're not super duper, duper careful with your numbers.
00:25:23
Speaker
So it's just stuff like that that I know you've got a lot of experience with that I think that people are going to be really interested to hear about as they as they move their productions up the line because as you were saying about you know Yeah, I think budgets are always getting crunched budgets are always getting worked down. We saw that from day one I think you just have to be really good at owning the space of what value you're bringing and and you you
00:25:47
Speaker
Those big companies those people with the big pocketbooks they they know the value of your brain and you just have to unlock that and find a way to unlock that as you're talking to them and of course your past work is one of the best ways to get that to happen.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think one of my missions is to knock people down from being too excited about jobs in general. Like, the more, the more excited you are for the job, the more at risk you are. You know, you got to kind of back it up and really be honest about it. I know it's such a scary thing, especially if you're
00:26:21
Speaker
Um, you know, the money's really good and you really could use it and you're kind of making decisions. You've got to still stay smart about it. You have to be, you have to say no, you have to tell a client exactly what they can get for the price that they're putting out. And if they want more, they can do that, but it has to cost more.
00:26:38
Speaker
get comfortable talking to the clients that way, always offer them what they can afford. Give them an option for what, you know, if you have a hundred thousand dollars, this is what we can do for a hundred thousand dollars. But, um, if you want to do this or that, that's going to be $200,000 and this one is $350,000. That would be a great show. That would be a great show right there. So, you know, I was always thinking of great show topics and that would be a great one. What if you've got like an agency person and a production company person on the same show?
00:27:07
Speaker
and you've got them to each present their side of the deal making. You know, the deal making is always chicken and egg, right? It would be, and maybe not, you could also not be agency. It could be like a in-house marketing director that hires video guys all the time, right? But like, you get the idea. Like, have them have to both present their side of the story. It could be really fun, right? Because it's kind of scary.
00:27:33
Speaker
tipping your hand a little bit there or tipping my hand, I should say that I'm working on recording right now. And I think that's going to be the first episode that I do on my own. I really, you know, I really what I'm approaching the show is not as the smartest person in the room. I'm approaching the show is
00:27:52
Speaker
I have a lot of experience here. I've done a lot. I've worked in the millions of dollars, not in the tens of thousands or the hundreds of thousands. And I can, I can tell you what I did that worked. And I will tell you what I did that didn't work. And I'll be real honest about it. And there's still so much more that I don't know. And we're going to talk to people and uncover that and try to get into it a little bit. And one of the areas that I really want to focus on is what the hell are the clients looking for? Like what do you want? Like,
00:28:16
Speaker
Whether you are brand you know you're some kind of a marketing director and a brand in your hiring agencies directly i'm sorry our production companies directly.
00:28:25
Speaker
or you're an agency and you're hiring production companies to fulfill their client streams and just, well, let's just talk to them. Let's just bring them on the show and have them in a very candid way, talk about what they are looking for and what they want to hear and what they're facing and just put some daylight on this conversation and just once again, demystify it all. So that's going to be how I come out. I know people will appreciate that, your audience in particular, and I think video production companies
00:28:55
Speaker
they're often afraid to ask. And I feel like I'm in this position with the show that I can do that and have enough experience to offer the authority to lead it. So I'm excited about those kinds of conversations. That's a brilliant idea. Those are great. I am now sure that the keys are handed over to you and it is now your show. Officially you folks are hearing it for the first time. Is that James's show crossing the axis? And clearly you have
00:29:22
Speaker
Really really good ideas for for doing it and that's that's super cool. And I'll just say that it's just that
00:29:28
Speaker
It's just a lot. It's a lot of fun. It was like literally my favorite part of doing it. The people in the production business are literally now that I'm a year out from really being in any form of the production business and four years out from actually having produced my last video. Um, you know, I can honestly look back and say that it's a great career. It's an incredibly great career. It takes MacGyvers. It takes.
00:29:53
Speaker
people that are open to thinking all the way around the box. And you just don't see that almost anywhere else now that I've been in tech and into finance. And I will also say, though, folks,
00:30:06
Speaker
it's hard. I will say, you know, looking from the like, that it's it is if you think, wow, this is really challenging. I mean, I love it, but it's really hard. Well, you're right. Don't feel bad. Because the truth is, is you're being asked to like, think on three different levels all the time, whether it's creatively, financially, you know, craft operations,
00:30:30
Speaker
you know, business, the creative, all of that. Yeah, right. Yes, man. I mean, it's just so much. So don't think you're crazy if you're lying up in the middle of the night like what the hell is going on. And I will say that you're not wrong. And yet it also can be a renumeratively satisfying.
00:30:48
Speaker
Um, and if you stick with it and, and so forth, but it really also is really fun. And I think one of the best parts of it for me was always being able to be a dilettante. And, and, and that is that I just love to be able to drop in on whatever X company or product was doing and learn all about it. And you went straight up to the C suite and talked to the head of these big places.
00:31:10
Speaker
And you just kind of dove in and you got to kind of experience whatever they were doing at a very visceral level and then help them shape.
00:31:18
Speaker
the future of where their company and creative was going. And it's different than being in just an agency, right? Because you're not just sitting there writing a script or whatever, man. You're out in the field. You're shooting. You're creating the moment, the light, the laughter, the prickles of emotion, all that stuff. You are making that out of thin air. And nobody else is doing that out there. Nobody else is doing that to the degree that we are in the video production world. And that is
00:31:47
Speaker
It's very, very satisfying. It's also pretty exhausting, which again, you know, you know, I was talking about getting out of business. The other thing I say is like, I just turned 50, you know, and like, I'm not sure. I'm not 100% sure that like, I would recommend getting into the business for anyone like north of 50. It's like, I'm not saying it's a young person's game. It's a bit of a young person's game, right? Like, I mean, I think like 30 or 25 is like, as I said, I had had a company for the time I was in fifth grade and like,
00:32:17
Speaker
So is this such a passion? And yet, you know, at that age, it's just like, Hmm, you know, this is I've, I've, I've really you have to have that passion burning bright to get through all the rest of it. But in that case, it is most certainly worth it. But the other thing I would say is you're going to learn a lot
00:32:36
Speaker
about a lot of things as you do it and that if you choose to go other places you're gonna find out that you can kick anything else's ass because if you've done even halfway well in video production dude you're gonna be able to get into whatever else you want to later in your second or third career or whatever so.
00:32:54
Speaker
It's all good. I'm glad that you pointed that out and kind of the unique kind of personality or persona of the video production person in some way, because I feel that too. I mean, I've worked in advertising, marketing, all this on a few different sides now, and the agency side and the production side. And I really love the production side. That's my people. It's my spot. It's where I feel the most comfortable. It's where I always have been.
00:33:22
Speaker
And, and I have this a little bit of, you know, I was the film commissioner for the city of Seattle for almost 10 years. And in that role, you have the responsibility of all the companies here, because it's an economic development, you know, driver, it's supposed to create jobs and grow your business, and you're kind of doing it for everybody. And it's kind of fun for me right now with the podcast, it's kind of take that same point of view. But rather than for a city, it's for a whole sector of people working in it anywhere in the world or the country.
Innovation and Career Longevity in Video Production
00:33:49
Speaker
and really empower them to do better, because it's the people I love. So I'm really excited about that. And while I do think it is a young person's game to start into, I think it would be really hard to start into it late in life. But I do think that there is a path for a long, solid, healthy, lucrative, satisfying career that will go deep into your life.
00:34:18
Speaker
And that's my goal, actually, is for those young people who get into it because they found a client.
00:34:25
Speaker
they found out they were good at video. They found out they were good and then all of a sudden someone liked it and then paid them for it. And then they got two people that paid them for it. And then they had three, then they had a couple of people. Then they got to a point where like, oh shit, this is, we're actually kind of good at this. And so asking for real money. Then they start thinking, oh, I can, I'm smarter than the people that are paying me. I should be getting paid for my creative development. And as they're kind of going through that evolution and they get to a point where they really decide that they want to do it.
00:34:52
Speaker
that they want to take this further, but they just don't know how yet. They've never done it before. It's new to them, but they really, really want to go for it. This podcast is that moment to help them, right? That's going to be the point of view I'm going to speak from mostly.
00:35:08
Speaker
I'm not going to tap. I probably will tap into like the getting started a little bit here and there a little bit there, but really it's for when you've gotten to a point in your career where you've asked yourself the hard questions. Do you want to do this for the rest of your life? Do you want to run a company? Uh, do you want that company to be healthy and full of people that you enjoy being around and have it be sustainable and have clients that mostly you that respect you and pay you and all of that when you're ready to go for that, that this podcast plays a really pivotal role in helping them get there.
00:35:37
Speaker
That's awesome. And that's all I ever hope to do, too. So I'm really excited for you to do that. And I look forward to listening and helping you spread the word about it. I feel like I have to leave off with some word of wisdom. And all I can say to folks is,
00:35:56
Speaker
The one thing I would really try to hammer home as you go through this because there are so many chat boards and everybody, you know, it's not a non opinionated group of people that you're working with, right? Like everyone has an opinion about how to do
00:36:12
Speaker
Best color balancing how to do that you know how to do the certain shot the certain way and there's always the way that things are done and so forth i would just encourage everyone to realize there are no rules there are no rules and i am talking about everything i'm talking about their no rules for how much you pay people.
00:36:31
Speaker
I'm talking about there are no rules for how you work with agencies. There's ideas. There's best practices that you will develop as you go along. But don't let anyone else tell you what the rules are because more often than not, those rules are made for them to protect their place in the hegemony of the world of production. And that's that, unfortunately,
00:36:58
Speaker
is true. It's out there. Everyone wants to protect their turf to some degree. And you really have to say, that's cool, man. That's the way you did it. I'm doing it differently. And it's going to change the way everything gets done. And that's how progress happens. And that's how things change. And whether it means, hey, I'm not shooting with a red. I'm shooting with this little DSLR.
00:37:24
Speaker
Whatever it might be that day, you know, I'm moving over to resolve I'm getting out of premiere, you know, whatever it is. There's like there's no frickin rules whatsoever No one can ever tell you there's that's probably the best part of being in this business is there is no school for it Really? There is no rules to it that you have to follow. So the only thing the only rule is
00:37:47
Speaker
is treat everyone as best as you possibly can cuz they will you know just cuz first of all you should and second of all they'll come back around and you'll you'll need something and only some you but like just treat everyone with the respect that you want to you know pay him as great as you possibly can that goes a long way don't ask for too many favors cuz you know just just use money you know
00:38:13
Speaker
And, and, and, and honestly, it's, it's, it's, but just that just for me, don't, don't, don't believe anyone that says, Oh, that's not the way it's done. Well, that's not the way it was done, but this is the way I'm going to be. And so please, that'd be my only thing to say. That's, that's that risk taker talking in you that I told you, I admired earlier on when I was singing your praise. That's that, that was taking stuff. I'm excited for you to take our show.
00:38:37
Speaker
Well, thank you, Max, for handing the keys over to me. I'll take care of this for you, I promise. And I hope to keep your legacy alive. Thank you for all you've done for the Pacific Northwest community in particular, but for the broader video production industry and the conversations you've led. And then I wish you the best of luck. And if we all make a lot of money, we'll bring it to you and you can help us with our wealth management. I see you have the long game here, don't you, Max? That's right.
00:39:05
Speaker
That's right. I expect to have lots of clients who are successful video producers for sure, but no, man, I think it's great. So all the best to you and the show and to what you're doing and the coaching and the business development with folks, it's a great, I'm so happy to hear that you're doing that. That's really fantastic. I look forward to with the head.