Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Paul Giblin - Pro Ultra Runner
60 Plays4 years ago
In this episode we speak with ultra runner Paul Giblin. Paul is part of the professional Compressport team, he has medalled at world level with Great Britain on road and in the mountains. His list of successes is long and he has competed in races such as the Western States 100 and the Barkley Marathons.
You can connect with Paul on:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Paul Giblin
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to this episode of the UK sports chat podcast. I'm Joe Williams and in today's episode I am speaking with professional ultra runner Paul Giblin. Paul is part of the compressed sport team. He has medaled at world level with Great Britain and on the road and in the mountains. His list of successes is long. He's competed in some amazing races such as the Western States 100 and the Barkley Marathons.
Paul's Journey to Elite Running and Coaching
00:00:25
Speaker
Paul is also a coach and we had a good chat about the journey he's taken over the last 12 plus years to become an elite runner and coach. Enjoy this episode. Please give us any feedback via our social channels and see you next week. Morning, Paul. Morning, Joe. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. Thank you, mate. How are you? I'm all right. The sun is shining this morning, so blue skies makes a change. It's nice.
00:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, it is here as well. It's really nice. Whereabouts are you? I'm in Scotland at the moment. I normally live in Chamonix, but I came back for Christmas for 10 days just to see some friends and family at Christmas time and then I got stuck here in a lockdown. So I've been super unlucky in the last 12 months I've hit every lockdown possible.
00:01:13
Speaker
I was actually, I was in the U S when the pandemic hit. So I got stuck there for a few weeks and then I managed to get back, but I couldn't get back to France. So I was stuck in Scotland for six months. And then when I got back over to France, I went and done a little lockdown and all that. So yeah, it's been a, it's been a bit frustrating, frustrating time really. Yes. When did you move to Chamonix?
Pandemic Experiences and Relocation to Chamonix
00:01:36
Speaker
How long have you been out there?
00:01:37
Speaker
About two or three years, I've been going to Chamonix pretty regularly for, I don't know, maybe eight to 10 years, mostly around the UTMB race. So after the first couple of years of doing those races, I started going out in the summertime much earlier so I could spend some time in the mountains training and then that kind of extended from there. Then I wanted to be there in winter so I could ski and then maybe about two or three years ago, I kind of moved over there full time.
00:02:05
Speaker
Before that, I kind of travel a lot to races before pandemic. It's hard to remember times before the pandemic now. So I wasn't there all the time, but I would kind of try and base myself there. So yeah, I'd actually just moved October time to a different apartment, but I haven't been there very much obviously because I got stuck here. So I'm not sure when I'm going to get back, but I'm trying to make the best of it. I don't live in the worst place in the world in Scotland. There's some great mountains and
00:02:32
Speaker
some good places to run. So yeah, trying to make the best of it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it sounds blessed skiing and running in the mountains. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's more complicated now because of the whole Brexit thing as well. But yeah, it's a great place to be. Cool.
Transition from Mountain Biking to Ultra Running
00:02:50
Speaker
Okay. So give us, give us an intro to yourself and yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
Um, I guess that's always the tricky one. You know, do you talk about things you've accomplished? You talk about your career or stuff, but, um, I've been running for maybe 12 years or something. I wasn't a runner before that. It's not like, you know, I ran when I was a teenager very much, or, um, I had some kind of, I've been doing this all my life. I haven't at all.
00:03:18
Speaker
I used to race mountain bikes when I was a kid really, when I was a teenager. I raced for a number of years. I loved mountain bikes. I loved being out in the wild and having a good time on bikes. And then I go to university, the usual things happen. You get into other things. I was into music and drinking and having fun and coming out of university. I ended up working for some big advertising agencies in London.
00:03:44
Speaker
I lived in London for about six years maybe, partied a lot, worked hard, played hard, didn't really think about exercise all that much if I'm honest. And then I moved back up to Scotland and then at some point I just felt like for the first time I felt like I was really unfit and maybe unhealthy. And it wasn't bad, I didn't have a terrible lifestyle.
00:04:06
Speaker
And I just started going to the gym really. I thought I need to do something about this. And I started quite enjoying going to the gym. I ran on the treadmill like most people do, maybe 10 minute warm up and then 10 minutes after I'd done some weights or whatever. And I quite enjoyed that part of it. So eventually started running outside and I just kind of got hooked on it very quickly and just really enjoyed that feeling of being outside and the wind in your face and moving.
00:04:31
Speaker
And I got into that quite quickly, really, and then I signed up for maybe a couple of 10K, like city 10K races, just kind of local things, and I quite enjoyed them. I quite enjoyed having that target of, right, that race is on that date. I'm going to try my best to do some training and get fit for that race and see what happens. I had no idea about what was a good time, what wasn't a good time, how you would pace anything, nothing like
First Ultra Race and Early Successes
00:04:56
Speaker
that at all. Just went into them and I had fun.
00:04:58
Speaker
And then I just came across something on the internet one day and it was an ultra, which I'd never heard about before. And I just couldn't believe there was this whole scene happening that I had no awareness of at points. And there was people running 50 miles or 100 miles on these trails through the mountains. And it kind of connected me a wee bit to what I enjoyed about mountain biking. And I thought, I can't believe people are doing this.
00:05:21
Speaker
So I just wanted to find out more straight away. So I did a bit of digging and I found a race. It's quite a big race in Scotland that a lot of people maybe do as their first one or two races. It was the Highland Fling. Surely the first half of the West Highland Way route, I signed up for that straight away. I had no idea. And it was back before you could even sign up online. You had to write a check.
00:05:45
Speaker
stick it in an envelope. It was like, you weren't sure if you were going to get a place or not, and you weren't sure how you were going to be communicated to. So I signed up for that. And then I thought, right, OK, what am I going to do to get ready for this? At that point, I hadn't run a half marathon. I hadn't run a marathon. And I had to figure out a way to try and get ready for this 53 mile race. So I signed up for another ultra before it.
00:06:09
Speaker
It's the B-53. It's a smaller race up north in Aberdeen. And it's a kind of road race here. Go out for 16 miles, turn around and come back again. It's a pretty straightforward race. So that would be the longest I'd ever done. And I still hadn't run a marathon in training at that point.
00:06:26
Speaker
So I did my training, I went on and I did that race and I learned a lot and I had no idea what I was doing at all. Like absolutely clueless. I didn't know if I had enough time to stop and do the toilet and stuff. It was just all brand new to me. But I was, I was excited and I did the normal thing. I ran out probably
00:06:48
Speaker
way faster than I had the ability to do and maintain, certainly. And to finish was a real struggle to finish. It felt like I'd achieved something fairly significant. I don't know where I was in terms of finishing points or anything at all, but it was a really great experience and I was really excited then about being able to run longer.
00:07:08
Speaker
I signed up for another race in between before this fling race that they'd signed up as the first one. Um, and that was a little bit longer. Um, I think that was a cat around maybe. Um, and I ended up winning this race. It was a 55 mile race or something. Um, so I must've got something right in my training at that point. Um, races had you done up to that point?
00:07:31
Speaker
I think that was my second race. I'm pretty sure that was my second race. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it probably wasn't a super competitive deal, but there was some experience guys doing at the time. Like I seriously didn't know what I was doing at that point at all. I didn't know how to feel for the race. I didn't know how to pace anything. I didn't know what kit to wear or anything at all. It was quite a steep learning curve when you get into ultra running.
00:07:55
Speaker
And then I did the Highland Fling, or I can't remember, maybe they were slightly different order or something at the Highland Fling anyway. And then that race that I'd won, they were quite close to the organizers of the West Highland Way Race at that point. And they said that was the one that I'd really dreamt about. So doing my research here around cultures, I'd realized that there was this race every year. It was the West Highland Way Race.
00:08:21
Speaker
and it started, I kind of connected with the story of that race. It was probably one of the first long distance cultures in the UK. It was on a great course. It was kind of on my doorstep. My mum and dad knew the guy who first started the race. I first did it. It was two guys that kind of had a bet with each other to see who could, if they could run this a hundred mile trail, I think 95 miles maybe at the time.
00:08:45
Speaker
to see who could finish it first. So I kind of connected with that story and I got really obsessed by that race. So they allowed me to get an entry when I probably wasn't really ready for it. And this would be a bit more difficult to get entries these days, I think. So in that first season of me doing my first ultra, I went straight into doing a hundred miler, which is not the way to go. It's not a recommendation I've ever said to anyone.
00:09:10
Speaker
Like if you think I didn't know what I was doing on the shorter ultras, I had no idea what I was doing in a hundred mile race. Because you've maybe got crew involved and you'd really have to look after yourself and you'd really have to view things properly and I had no idea what I was doing at all. But I finished that race and it felt amazing. It felt like a huge achievement for me.
00:09:30
Speaker
I think it was maybe sixth or seventh or something, maybe, in my first one. And that was me. I just got the bug for the West Highland race and I knew I had to go back there. And I knew I really wanted to win that race. So it was something that just captured my attention, really, and my imagination. And I just wanted to be part of that whole scene, really.
00:09:51
Speaker
So I'm guessing you were, from what you were saying then, you're mid to late twenties then when you started running. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you, and this was 12 years ago. So within that second or third race then, how long had you been running then?
00:10:09
Speaker
I'd been running less than a year, certainly. I'd been doing some stuff, like I said, in the gym on a treadmill, but nothing significant. I probably wasn't going beyond eight kilometers on a treadmill at any point. And then I'd started being outdoors, so I was doing 10K runs fairly regularly. I did a couple of training sessions that I wanted to push it. I remember doing the first marathon distance. I'd never
00:10:32
Speaker
I'd never run a proper marathon at that point, but I decided I wanted to do that in training. I at least had to be able to run a marathon before I could run anything beyond that 50K or something. And I remember coming out of the back of that training run and I was crippled. I could walk for days virtually. I'm thinking, wow, this is something really significant. And I'm not saying that running a marathon isn't significant now. I mean, it's a huge thing for a lot of people.
00:10:57
Speaker
Um, but amazing how your body adapts eventually that, you know, a marathon at the moment for anybody who's really committed to running alters to run a marathon is probably a relatively short training run at a weekend. Um, but at the time when you've never done it before, um, it's a huge thing. And I felt that buzz afterwards, I felt like I'd really achieved something as well as suffering legs and unable to walk downstairs, going down backwards.
00:11:25
Speaker
So the West Highland Way, like you said, that was 95 mile at the time. So you've run into that 100 mile there. Yeah. So you went back the following year, didn't you? Yeah, I did. I ended up doing five in a row. So the first two were really good learning processes for me, really. The first one was just brand new. So at that point, you just don't know that you can complete the distance. And it's actually quite a
00:11:54
Speaker
I tried to say this to some of the athletes I coach when they haven't run that kind of distance before. It's actually a really magical time because you just don't know what's going to go on. Everything's new. Your mind and body, that whole connection is testing itself for the first time when you're going that kind of distance. So it's actually like a really special time. You don't realize at the time because you're having to work hard and you're suffering and you're questioning yourself and everything as well.
00:12:19
Speaker
It was really magical time for me. And then the second year I did it, I was a wee bit more clued up in terms of what I needed to do in order to have a good performance. So I think I finished second in that year. The guy that won it was a super strong runner at the time and I was kind of in awe of him a little bit.
00:12:37
Speaker
And then I got through the second one, and then I thought I had this kind of moment or this conscious decision making point in my mind to say, I'm going to win this West Highland Way Race, and I'm going to break the course record. And I'm not that type of person. I'm not normally the type of person who will be kind of bold in those statements sometimes. And actually, I verbalized it. I spoke to my mum and dad at the time, and I said, I'm going to break the course record, isn't it? And people,
00:13:05
Speaker
they kind of looked at me like, oh, that's great. So I'm very good. But they probably, I could, I could sense from them. They were thinking he's maybe been a wee bit over ambitious
Mindset and Strategies for Ultra Running
00:13:13
Speaker
here. And by the third one, that was the first time I won the race. And I took a fair chunk off the course record at the time. And I don't think I've ever
00:13:24
Speaker
run even since I raced with such determination and focus and I knew I was going to do it on that day. I don't know why, I don't know where it came from, but yeah. So I was focused enough that I wanted to go back the second time after that and I went back a third time and I managed to win another twice and break the course record twice again after that. So yeah, it was a really special race for me really.
00:13:48
Speaker
It was the second time that you took, you took quite a chunk off it, didn't you? Was it? Yeah, yeah. The second one, we had a good reason for it. We had another guy running who was quite open about it on social media that he was coming up to win the race and he was coming up to break the course record and he had a good pedigree and he was quite
00:14:14
Speaker
about it. So I guess that kind of riled me up. And when you've got really strong competition like that, then you can generally get a big performance out of either me or he was going to have a good performance and we kind of battled it out for a lot of that race, which, which helped in terms of the overall time.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, so just so for listeners, we're talking, I think it was just over 15 hours and then you took that down to 14.20 and then you beat it again to 14.14 the year after that. Yeah, I think that was it. And actually the third one was really tough. I ended up
00:14:52
Speaker
been on my own for quite a lot of that race and not comfortable, but comfortable in that I didn't feel threatened that I was going to lose the lead in that race. It was actually really difficult to keep on pushing and just racing a clock because you never win against a clock. You know, it's not like you can sense somebody slowing or somebody's catching you and you can push it a certain bit. The clock just keeps on going. So that was, that was quite a tough one. And for a chunk of that race, I thought,
00:15:19
Speaker
I wasn't going to get close to the record so it was really only in the last maybe 25 miles. I was really having to work hard to try and chase it down and that's quite a hard thing to do.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah. So you've gone from somebody who's just mountain biking, you got into running, you enjoyed it, you liked the bars, and then it's quite rapidly progressed to, like you say, you're making these bold statements and wanting to win races. So how did you change your approach and what you spoke about learning things from your early races? What
00:15:52
Speaker
Describe to us how what your training looked like and how it changed from, you know, before you ran that race to three years winning it. Yeah. I think it was, it was, it was more challenging in those days and that there wasn't the same level of coaching available. There wasn't the same level of really, uh, scientific or well-proven information about how to run an ultra really well.
00:16:19
Speaker
So it was like you were scouting old books and old race reports, you spent a lot of time reading blogs and trying to find different pieces of information about how people feel things and what they did and there was loads of like really wacky stuff now when I look back at the time it was
00:16:34
Speaker
You know, you could go from extremes at people that were saying, oh, you have to be running 200 miles a week is the only way to do it. Or, you know, are people doing these massive back to back runs? And that's the only way you can possibly run a fast 100 miler is if you do 50 miles on a Saturday and then you do 40 miles on Sunday. And like just crazy things I would never recommend now. So you had to really
00:16:56
Speaker
Um, spend time researching stuff, which was a big part of the enjoyment factor for me. So it was trying things out and training and going out every day and saying, Oh, well, there's a session I've found from some American ultra runner who, who recommends a session. I would go and try it and see how I felt after it. Um, I guess in some ways, like I definitely wouldn't recommend it in that first year of me racing. Um, I did seven alters. I think, I think it was signed up for a, a missed one cause it was sick.
00:17:24
Speaker
which is way too many, right? But actually, I was just gathering information the whole time. So I was learning on the job as I went. And then I think after that, I maybe started to back off and be a wee bit more strategic about the races that I wanted to do. So I get it a lot as a coach. So somebody will come in and say, I want to do this 100 miler in June. It's my focus race. I want to do really well in it. And just so you know, I've also signed up to 50 miler three weeks before. Do you think that's a good thing to do?
00:17:53
Speaker
And I'm like, well, first of all, it depends on what your goals are for the race. If you really, really want to perform at your best, running a 50 miler or racing a 50 miler three weeks before you go into 100 miler, it's not going to put you in the best possible position to do that. If your goal is just to finish both races, then fine, you can do that. So I started to be smarter about things.
00:18:14
Speaker
It became, it became part of who I was and my lifestyle more than just a hobby, right? So I like, I committed to doing things. I committed to going to bed early. I committed my diet to eat properly and eat things that were going to help me train better. And I did all the extra stuff around my running, like all the mobility stuff and looking after your body and stretching and all those kinds of things make a big difference. And it becomes part of who you are and part of your lifestyle. And I think that was the big, big change for me, really.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. You've touched on a really important point there.
00:18:50
Speaker
I was playing football with my son yesterday and I made this point to him. I said he's 16, he's going up to college and he wants to keep playing football. You're at that age now where you need to start looking after yourself. You need to be stretching. You're not 8, 9, 10 anymore where you can just run around. You need to be stretching. You need to be doing bits of strength work. And this is something that runners are quite guilty of overall is
00:19:16
Speaker
just, just running and not doing those extra bits that you're talking about. So it sounds like you really immersed yourself in, in everything. I think, I think it's the only way to do it. If, if, if you really want to get the best out of yourself, I think there's a lot of untapped potential in people. All of us carry that about. And I know some people may be doubted more than others and like I'm talking here, I'm not, I'm not
00:19:38
Speaker
particularly gifted runner or anything. You know, it's not like I'm, I'm some genetic freak that I've got this massive VO two max or something that I just, I have this super talent for running. I'm not, I don't think I am. I think I've really committed to it and that's the difference. I became
00:19:55
Speaker
somewhat obsessed by it, I suppose, but everything I do is centered around my running. So I stopped drinking, for example. I was in a relationship quite early on, and it didn't actually really fit with my relationship at the time. And that broke down. So then I was able to fully commit to doing the thing that I really love doing. And that is things like changing all those
00:20:18
Speaker
not so good habits that you have in your normal lifestyle and actually asking questions about, well, why is it I feel the need to have to have a glass of wine at night to de-stress? Is there something else that's going on in my life that's causing that or makes me turn to that? And is there something else I could do to replace that? So those were the kind of things I was doing. I was doing more mobility then and eating well and trying different foods so that I could wake up feeling fresh after a 20 mile run and stuff like that. So
00:20:46
Speaker
I think that's quite interesting. It's great for me to see as a coach, it's great when you get people onto a podium or athletes finish a run that they didn't think they could do or they finished their first 50 miler or
Favorite Races and Their Challenges
00:20:59
Speaker
whatever. That's all great. But see when you actually have a relationship with athletes and you see how it's affecting their life in a positive way, them and their family. So they're going from
00:21:09
Speaker
maybe having some of these bad habits to doing better things with their lives. You know, they're spending more time outdoors. They're getting their kids and their families involved outdoors and they're doing things together and their families are turning up to support them on races and they're all getting involved with it. That's, that's like really rewarding to me as a coach when it starts to have an impact on their lifestyle, a positive impact on their lifestyle. Yeah, brilliant. That's really, really interesting to hear. So you've,
00:21:36
Speaker
You've run some amazing races. I know you've run Western states three times and finished in the top 10 there and Barkley marathons and there's a list on your power. Have you got a favorite?
00:21:52
Speaker
I struggle with favorites. In some ways, they're all favorites for different reasons. So Western states, when I went through my whole West Highland Way thing, I became aware of Western states. It's the oldest hundred-miler in the world. It has a really interesting, compelling backstory for me, and similar to the West Highland Way, I really connect with something that feels authentic and genuine.
00:22:19
Speaker
where it's run from and the backstory. It used to be like a long distance horse race. I don't know if you know much about Western states, but, and it goes through some amazing countryside in Northern California. It starts from Squaw Valley just out in Lake Tahoe and goes down
00:22:37
Speaker
through some huge canyons and stuff where they used to mine for gold and all that stuff. So it's really, really interesting backstory. So I really connected with that. I wanted to do it. And because of my success at the West Island We Race and through a few connections, it's a very difficult race to get into.
00:22:53
Speaker
I managed to get a place one year and I went out there and spent a lot of time in Tahoe and hanging out with people there. I made some really good friends and I went back and I think I've done four Western states in the end. It's just a magical race. It's one of the most exciting ultras in the world. It's actually relatively small in terms of the number of participants each year. They keep it to under 400.
00:23:20
Speaker
Um, but it's like, it's like one of the premier, uh, ultrasound you can do in the world. And, uh, it's just got this like really good feel when you're in the race, super exciting. Um, the crews and the aid stations are amazing and you just feel like you're part of something really special for me. It's kind of like getting to an Olympic games for me, Western States, maybe UTMB or, or, or the kind of pinnacles of, of racing, uh, a hundred mile races for me anyway. Yeah. Cool. I, I do, um,
00:23:51
Speaker
How do you manage when you're in those races, your mindset? You've just described Western states, obviously. That's 100 miler through canyons, et cetera. It's a very tough race, isn't it? What's your mental techniques that you use when you're racing?
00:24:13
Speaker
I think you need to be really clear first of all and I think people get found out quite quickly. If you're just doing a race to tick it off or because you think you should do a race or it's just an easy one for you to do from a practical sense,
00:24:30
Speaker
then you can struggle. When it gets really tough, you struggle when you don't have a clear reason for why you're doing it. And I think that's really important. And that's why I tend to go to races that I'm really, I feel, a real strong connection with, like the West Thailand Race, like Western States, where I feel like I want to be part of that story. And I want to be able to, in some way, contribute to the story of that race.
00:24:54
Speaker
So that makes a big difference when you start off. So that helps you be much more committed to your training and it helps you to really force you to understand what the requirements of any race are and what the main limiters of any race are going to be. So Western States is kind of unique and it's quite a warm, it's quite a hot race.
00:25:13
Speaker
So you start early morning, you start quite high up already. You start from Squaw Valley, so you're already kind of at altitude and you climb straight away. You've got 3,000 feet to climb right from the gun really. So it's cold at the start. You've got snow to deal with usually at the start and maybe for the first 10 or 20 miles. And then
00:25:35
Speaker
You run at altitude for a period so that's a particular limiter maybe for some if you've got no experience of running at altitude and then you've got the heat to deal with for a good 10 to 12 hours it gets really hot it can be like 40 degrees sometimes at western states
00:25:51
Speaker
And this one limiter that you just can't ignore is the heat. So there's certain things you can do in a race mentally and there's things you can do to prepare for that. So when you've already bought into the race and you've got a strong connection and you understand why you want to do it and why you want to achieve and why you want to finish or race well,
00:26:08
Speaker
It makes such a difference in your preparation because you actually do the work to make sure you're as prepared as you can be. And I think that's the starting point that I would suggest to most people is like try and have an emotional connection to the races, understand why it is you really want to do it. And it's not every race you're going to do as you're absolutely connected to it, but some of the races you'll do are building towards a result and a future race. And that's okay too, because you've got a good reason to be doing that.
00:26:35
Speaker
So there's lots of things you can do when you're actually in the race itself, you know, is just break the race down, like a 100 mile race or a 200 mile race. It's quite hard to, even when you're maybe, I don't know, 30 or 40 miles into a 100 mile race, you're thinking, I've still got a long way to go here. You just need to break it into chunks really and just focus on the next stage station and think, right, okay, I'm going to get myself to the next stage station, then I'm going to make a call from there.
00:27:02
Speaker
What I find a lot of people do in these longer races is they maybe don't write any kind of race plan, which I will always do for a big race. I think it's quite important when people do it and that's breaking down the race into those chunks that I've talked about and they're usually aid stations in a lot of these races anyway.
00:27:19
Speaker
So they might be 10 miles, they might be 12 or 15 or sometimes only 5 miles between aid stations. So that's a useful checkpoint for you to say, am I getting there, am I going too fast already and maybe pushing too hard or am I falling behind on what my projected plan
Mental Strategies During Races
00:27:34
Speaker
It was and it's okay if you are sometimes, but at least you can make a decision then about what you're going to do in the next stage station. So there's always going to be times in an ultra that you're not going to feel that good and you're going to maybe struggle and you maybe start slowing either consciously or sometimes unconsciously you're slowing.
00:27:51
Speaker
And sometimes when you get to that point, it's a good wake-up call. And at that point, you can at least understand that you're maybe 10 or 15 minutes up or 10 or 15 minutes down. What am I going to do about it next? So when things start to go wrong, I try to consolidate my position almost to go, right, OK, I've had a bad period there. I've felt quite bad for an hour. I've had a bad stomach. I couldn't take any food on board or something. Or maybe I've been sick or I'm just not feeling that good today. I'll try and not let it.
00:28:20
Speaker
cloud every other decision I'm going to make in that race and start on this kind of negative slope that, oh, this is a disaster. I should never have come out today. It's a bad thing to do. And this is beyond me. And those small voices of doubt, we all have those in races and it's fine. But if you start letting that become a bigger and a louder voice, then your race can really slide. So I've used those points sometimes to say, right, okay, I'm going to get myself to that aid station. I don't feel that good.
00:28:46
Speaker
I'm going to take a minute in that aid station, I'm going to do some things, small things, any small thing that I can do to make myself feel better and it might be maybe you'd retie your shoes because there's been some discomfort in your feet or something or you fixed the pack that's been rubbing slightly on your shoulder, you have some food, you have a drink and you go right okay I'm going to see how I feel now in this next section. So breaking it down into small chunks is quite a good thing to do and then just trying to see it
00:29:12
Speaker
section by section and not look at the whole entirety of what you've still got left to do. And then actually, it's useful sometimes to think back as well and think, right, OK, so I don't have 100 miles to do now. I'm 25 miles in. I don't feel that great, but I've only got 75 to go. So if I break it down, I just need to do another marathon and then I'm halfway or I'm over halfway and just use some of those techniques to try and keep yourself moving.
00:29:39
Speaker
Love it. And that's applicable for any distance as well, really, isn't it? If some of our listeners aren't running long ultras, they can still use that same technique to prepare themselves, going into races, break the race down, look at the course profile, look at what's the weather, et cetera, et cetera, and plan that so that they go into it better prepared.
00:30:06
Speaker
I think so. I think even down to trying to run a fast 10k, you're breaking it into those chunks, aren't you? You're breaking it down the first two kilometers of this 10k PB that I'm desperate to do. The first two kilometers are about trying to get to this point that you're feeling a relative level of comfort. You're pushing hard, but you're in control of things. You know when you get to 5k, you're already on the other side of the peak, you're already heading down the way.
00:30:32
Speaker
when you get to 8k maybe you're thinking right okay I want to get two more kilometers I know this is only going to take me less than 10 minutes I need to just be able to push hard for the 10 minutes so it kind of works in any distance it's just a wee bit more concentrated and it comes a bit more quickly on the shorter stuff yeah cool so what's your plan for the next you know 12 months have you got a specific race that you're aiming for or
00:30:58
Speaker
It's been a bit tricky, obviously. There's quite a few races have been canceled. I was supposed to be back at Berkeley this year, which happened a few weeks ago.
Upcoming Races and Coaching Career
00:31:09
Speaker
I was also in 2020.
00:31:13
Speaker
I was actually out there and I'd spent maybe five or six weeks in the park just getting ready and training and doing some navigation practice and stuff and the pandemic hit and the race was cancelled maybe six days before the race which was pretty frustrating so that's how I ended up being stuck in Tennessee for a while.
00:31:33
Speaker
So, I was supposed to have a place this year, but I just couldn't get out there, which was really frustrating to know the race was happening and I wasn't able to go out there. So, this year, I have plans to do the Tour de Geont. It was a big race in Italy, which is end of August, early September, instead of doing UTMB. I've been at UTMB for about eight years maybe, so I wanted to do something different, something a bit longer.
00:32:01
Speaker
I've done a few longer races now and I've got a real kind of fascination and connection with them which is partly why I've been at Barclay because it's quite a long race albeit distance wise it probably isn't that long but you're definitely going to be out there for a good few days at a time so I've run a few 300 kilometer races which I've really enjoyed that adventure side of things and been out for a couple of days just
00:32:27
Speaker
I don't know. It's something that I connect with and it makes me feel like I'm properly out on an adventure, which is quite important to me. So I definitely would like to do some longer races. The tour is quite a long race. I think it's 330 kilometres. It's got a huge amount of ascent and descent. So that's going to definitely challenge me more than I've been challenged in some other races.
00:32:54
Speaker
I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do before that. I've got an FKT challenge in the next few weeks I'm hoping to pull together with a friend that I'll do in Scotland before I head back to France, which I really need. I think I've raced for maybe 18 months or something.
00:33:13
Speaker
It's hard. It's hard. I don't, I don't run just the race. I would run anyway, but, um, to not have that really clear focus of a race has been hard for me because it's been a big part of my life for the last 10 years of knowing where I'm going to be in the world and what race I'm going to be focused on and what specific training I'm doing. So, um, I'll hopefully get a summer race in as well, but I'm not sure what that's going to be yet.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So you've mentioned, you've touched on that you're coaching as well now. So tell us about your, when did you start coaching and tell us about your coaching and pile on as well, please. Yeah. I started the coaching side of things back in 2014. So it's been quite a long time now. And back then I really ended up with just a couple of clients who trusted me enough based on my good race results to
00:34:06
Speaker
allow me to help them with their training and then we've really grown organically since then and I've worked with loads of athletes at all different levels and from people who are quite new to the sport and to people who were already performing and winning races really well and we've helped them to
00:34:23
Speaker
go on and be called up to have GB vests and run 24-hour races for Great Britain stuff. So it's been amazing. We work with athletes all over the world. It's mostly online remote coaching. So we write plans for people and then we build relationships with people mostly online.
00:34:43
Speaker
and help them just to reach their goals really. So we've now got a coaching team of five of us and we coach a lot of athletes now. We've predominantly been ultra focused, has been the biggest part of things, but we actually
00:35:01
Speaker
We want to reach more people now, and we think we can help more people. So we launched a product this year, which is like a monthly product at the moment, the Ultra product. It's not just for people running Ultras, but it's a weekly program, so we write week to week for people.
00:35:18
Speaker
and we'll react to how well they performed in the week before, before we write their new plan and stuff. We've launched a monthly programme for people and that can be anybody who's maybe wanting to run a fast half marathon or a marathon really and they don't maybe need a coach to speak to every week, so we'll do that monthly with them instead.
00:35:38
Speaker
and give them a month's plan. So that's been really good. It just allows us to reach more people and talk to more people and try and support more people because it's all about, I think some people just need some belief sometimes. And if you can have one person who's supportive of your goals and supportive of your dreams, then it can make such a difference. And you don't always get that at home and you can have a great partner and great family and friends and stuff.
00:36:02
Speaker
They don't always connect with your why or why you want to run or why you want to get a fast 10K PB or why you want to do London Marathon. That's the role that we can fill because we really understand why people want to do that and we want to try and bring out that potential that they have inside them. It's been a really great experience for us. We've actually got a really amazing community now.
00:36:26
Speaker
of athletes who are currently working with us, or some that have maybe left, but they're still connected to us. So we do some meetups. We also put on some events. We've had a few residential training camps, and they're just amazing experiences for us that are putting them on, as well as the people that come there. And we normally have
00:36:45
Speaker
like a weekend, we're supposed to have one this year obviously but it's been cancelled or postponed until the end of the year but we get a bunch of people together, we go somewhere nice like the Lake District or somewhere nice in Scotland, we spend a weekend together eating and running and talking about running and talking about why we do things and adventure and we have a lot of fun along the way as well so that's been great.
00:37:06
Speaker
And we've also, we're putting on a race this year as well. It's a virtual race, but it's called exposure and it's happening next weekend on the 24th. And there's been a lot of virtual races about and for good reason. And it's given some people some focus, particularly last year in lockdown when none of us could race, which was good. But they tended to be this kind of run 50 miles in a week and let us know when you've run it and we'll send you a medal and a t-shirt.
00:37:34
Speaker
we thought if we were going to do something that had to have a kind of live race experience was important for us. And it had to be genuinely challenging as well. So basically we've got the race is going to be split into six, 12 or 24 hour exposures. So
00:37:52
Speaker
If you sign up for the 12-hour, there'll be 12 one-hour exposures. So we'll basically tell you at the start of that hour, you won't know what distance you have to run. We'll send you a text message to say, in this exposure, you have to run three miles. So you go out and run three miles, you'll come back and you'll wait for the next exposure. And if you don't make it and you're not quick enough, maybe you get a six-mile exposure and you're too tired, then you'll be out of the race. So you really need to
00:38:15
Speaker
be comfortable being uncomfortable and you need to surrender to it a little bit and it's a genuinely challenging experience so we've got a six hour a 12 hour and a 24 hour the six hours great if you've never run an ultra before maybe because you're probably going to have to run 50 kilometers over that six hour period
00:38:34
Speaker
We've got the 12-hour, you're probably going to be around the 15-mile mark. And if you're brave enough to take on the 24, then you're going to have to be able to run probably 100 miles in that 24-hour period. But it'll be broken down into those one-hour segments. So it should be a lot of fun. The fastest cumulative time overall will win. Some people will not be doing it for a win. They'll just be doing it to see if they can survive for 12 hours or 24 hours. So it should be a lot of fun.
00:39:00
Speaker
That's great. You're right. I completely agree.
00:39:06
Speaker
virtuals have helped people a lot because you spoke about having something to aim for, you know, you're missing your connection to a race. And that has given people that over the last 12 months, I agree. And it's great to see how they've also evolved because this is a completely new concept that you're talking about here. It's really, you know, people have got creative with it, which is great, really good. Yeah.
00:39:31
Speaker
Do you have, we all like a bit of shoe porn don't we? What's your kit of choice? Have you got any favorites there?
00:39:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I've been working with Topo for maybe five or six years.
Running Gear Preferences and Hobbies
00:39:53
Speaker
As any runner, when you get into running, you become obsessed with shoes. So I've gone through a lot of shoes in my time. And then it was maybe five or six years ago, I had a conversation with Topo. So it was the first time they came into the UK, the distributor here.
00:40:12
Speaker
got in touch and I'd done some work with them before to say we've got these shoes, we've got some test shoes coming in, do you want to try them and maybe come in and talk to us about them. So I went in and I met Tony Post, who's the guy behind Topo in the first place. I had a really good conversation with him, really passionate guy.
00:40:28
Speaker
And kind of like any new auto runner way back will read Born to Run and probably every runner reads Born to Run maybe, but it's one of those books that really gets you excited and motivated about running.
00:40:44
Speaker
And there they talk about barefoot running and five fingers and whatever. And Tony was actually involved in that because he worked at Vyram before he started Topo Athletic. And so he gave us his shoes and went out and tried them. And I really loved them and went for other conversations then. So I've been running and nothing but Topos since then, really.
00:41:05
Speaker
And just the minute you put them on, I don't know what it is. I think they say they're like a natural foot shape or something. I don't really know what that means, but it feels like that when you put them on more than any other shoe I have in the past. And I don't know if it's to do with they've got like quite a wide toe box, not as wide as some of the other shoes like the Altos or whatever.
00:41:24
Speaker
And they don't, they're not like super close to your ankles and stuff either, so they feel really natural. And I think most people that have managed to convince to try topos have all been the same. They're like, oh wow, these feel really good. There's just something really nice about the feel.
00:41:40
Speaker
I guess early on for me they had quite a small range so they weren't always super suitable for some of the races that I did. It didn't stop me but I ended up doing UTMB and stuff and a pair of their trail shoes way back that maybe weren't suitable for such rugged terrain and the shoes got kind of
00:41:59
Speaker
messed up a little bit, but now they've got a huge range. They've got like a shoe for every kind of terrain or requirement that you have really. They've got great fast, like for doing your fast intervals or doing fast stuff on the road, they've got some really nice lightweight shoes, zero drop.
00:42:18
Speaker
They're not all zero drop either now. They used to be quite minimal, but they've got different kind of drops and shoes that work for different people. And then they've got things like the mountain racer, I think came out maybe a year or two ago, which I've used at UTMB a couple of times now. So just a great mountain shoes, got loads of great grip on it. They teamed up with Vibram, I think in the last couple of years as well. So they've got a bit more kind of grip and traction than they've had before as well and much more durable with the outsole.
00:42:46
Speaker
That's been fantastic. And they've got like shoes like the MT3, which are great for kind of hard pack fast trails that you might get in Western states. And then they've just got like a really good range of shoes now. So I would hope to, I think I'll always use topo shoes, whether I have a relationship with them or not. So yeah, yeah, they've been really good.
00:43:09
Speaker
Cool. I met Tony at a conference. That's a really interesting story that not everybody knows over here yet is exactly what you've just told. He was involved with Vibram and then started obviously Topo. They're getting much more popular in the UK as well now, aren't they? Like you say.
00:43:28
Speaker
They seem to be, yeah, I've got quite a lot of my geysers started wearing them and stuff as well. And I think it's always difficult. It's a difficult selling. I think initially when you come into the market and you're maybe relatively minimal and people are unsure and they don't know the brands and people are quite brand loyal when it comes to shoes for a while. So actually the task for them, I think, is just getting them onto people's feet because once you get them onto people's feet, they're like, oh, wow, these feel really good. And that can make a big difference.
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good brand and nice company it seems to be as well. Do you want to give any other brands a mention? I know you're supported by the brands as well.
00:44:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I run for the Compressport Trail team. So I've been with them for maybe five years maybe. I actually bought their stuff before I was involved with them. When I first started and I was doing some European races, they were a relatively big brand in Europe and maybe less well known in the UK. And they were really
00:44:33
Speaker
focused on technical trail running stuff. They've now expanded the range. They do a lot of triathlon stuff and they do a really great road running range as well, but they're just really passionate people. I don't know if you've met any of those guys as well. Sylvan, who's the owner, he's like
00:44:51
Speaker
I think he's probably the head designer as well. He's so passionate about design, so passionate about the fabrics and he gets really, really excited about the products. So their products are not like they're not just churning out different colours every year, they're actually making developments and they're using us as their athlete team to get feedback on stuff and they're talking to us about what is it you really need and does that top work really well and what happens if it's windy? Can we change that product? Can we make it better?
00:45:18
Speaker
And he's obsessed with making things better, but making them lighter as well. So yeah, it's a really interesting company to be working with. They've just got some really great kit now. It's never going to be super cheap kit. It's not cheap. If you're wanting cheap stuff that you're going to run every day in and do all your training runs in, then it might not be the stuff. But if you really want to perform well and
00:45:42
Speaker
you want the lightest and best performing kit, then I don't think there's much that can beat it at the moment, really. Cool. Okay. What's your favourite non-running hobby then? I'm not sure if you're going to have anything the way you've described it. What do you do to chill out and away from running?
00:46:05
Speaker
I like to ski in winter, but that becomes a form of training really. So I probably can't claim that one as a way to chill out sometimes. So I don't just ride lifts and ski down all the time. I like to do skiing uphill and do some ski touring really. And then with that mind that I have, it's never enough. You want to be lighter and you want to be faster going uphill and you want to be faster in your transitions and stuff.
00:46:31
Speaker
So it's not always a way for me to switch off. I read a lot. I do some music production. So whenever I get time, I'm messing about with synths and making noises and trying to put some tracks together. I do some YouTube stuff, make some films about running, and I do a lot of that kind of stuff. We've got a podcast as well.
00:46:53
Speaker
Um, and we talk about, it's not just about running. It's more about some of the issues that come up in life and how we can use running to better inform some of the decisions we make as we go through our lives and stuff. So that's great. A fun thing to do. Um, it's the pilot ultra pod for anyone that's listening. Give us a listen. Um, yeah, give us all your social and your website and that. So people, if people want to connect with you and
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah, mostly you can find us at Pylon P-Y-L-L-O-N, which is kind of the umbrella for the whole kind of coaching business and the events and me. We have Pylon Ultra as well now, which is really the brand itself and my personal ones Pylon, but you're more than welcome to follow there or come along and check some stuff out.
00:47:39
Speaker
The podcast is the pilot ultra-pod. It's available on all the normal podcast players. We just put another episode out last night, actually. So that'll be available now. If anybody fancy is listening to us on your long run, then check it out after you've listened to this. Great. Paul, thanks ever so much for coming and chatting to me. I've really, really enjoyed it. You're especially how you describe your connection with races. It's really
00:48:08
Speaker
It's inspiring. It really pulls you in. It was very, very interesting to hear. Thanks for coming on. No worries at all. Best of luck with your future races and your coaching and everything. No worries at all. Hopefully, I'll speak to you again soon, Joe.