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Tax News Now Ep. 2 - Tax Topics with Brandon Lagarde
197 Plays11 days ago
Mark Gallegos, Tax Partner at Porte Brown, welcomes his guest Brandon Lagarde, Tax Services Partner at Eisner Advisory Group, to discuss navigating the challenges and opportunities in the tax profession. Brandon shares his journey, insights, and strategies for thriving during tax season, emphasizing the importance of client communication, education, and managing expectations. He highlights the evolving nature of tax laws, the value of staying informed, and the need for professionals to balance work with personal well-being. The conversation also touches on the complexities of tax law, the importance of adaptability, and the rewarding aspects of being a trusted advisor in the field.
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Transcript
Introduction and Tax Season Overview
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome back to Tax News Now. I'm your host, Mark Gallegos, tax partner at 40 Brown LLC in the Chicagoland area. If you're a tax professional deep in the trenches of busy season or a client trying to make sense of the tax complexities, this episode is for you. Today's episode is all about tax season survival guide tips for tax professionals and clients.
00:00:29
Speaker
Tax season can feel like a running a marathon, except, you know, with deadlines, endless client emails, and maybe a little bit of caffeine field chaos. But today we're here to make just a little, make the season a little bit easier.
Meet Brandon Lagarde
00:00:41
Speaker
I'm thrilled to be joined by an incredible guest, a great friend, and someone who truly knows what it takes to thrive in this industry, Brandon Lagarde.
00:00:50
Speaker
Brandon is a partner at Tax Services Group at Eisner Amper. He specializes in federal and state taxation, closely held businesses, does tax planning, deals with trust trust in the states, and has a background in M and&A tax strategies. He's a leader, a writer, and a speaker. His expertise and leadership in the field have made him a go-to resource for tax professionals and business owners alike. Brandon, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Mark.
00:01:17
Speaker
So Brandon, before we get going, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, absolutely. So happy happy to be here. I'm glad to talk with you about tax season. we're It's almost here. I guess it's it's we just started or soon we'll start. um So I'll give a little bit of background about myself and kind of how I came here to this firm and um and and why I really like what I do. I know we'll dive into that a little later, but I ah graduated from a good way back to college. I like to talk about where I went to school because I graduated from LSU and went to law school at LSU as well. Then after that spent a year getting my LLM in tax at University of Florida. So I made sure to stay in the SEC, big SEC fan. um And after that, you know, practice law in Baton Rouge, Louisiana for about four and a half years.
00:02:09
Speaker
And really, you know during that time, I really enjoyed pricing law. I really enjoyed helping
Career Journey and Tax Law Passion
00:02:14
Speaker
clients on the legal side. But at some point, I started looking around and and realizing that CPA firms were was where a lot of the fun tax work was being done. So about 2010, I decided you know to try this thing, yeah kind of use my CPA hat a little more and less my legal hat.
00:02:34
Speaker
and came over to the firm at the time, which was a regional firm here in Baton Rouge um called Postway to Netterville. Try to spell that. Good luck. And spent about, been that been was there for about 13 years and then a couple of years ago, we we joined and merged with Isenramper. And really, again, it was it was really,
00:02:56
Speaker
to try to use more of that CPA hat and and less of the legal hat, although you know honestly use a lot of both of them today in my practice now. So Brandon, before we dive into the taxis and survival strategies, I always find it fascinating to hear about people's journeys that led them into the profession. So from your perspective, tell us what drew you into accounting and tax law from when you went into college and and therefore.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah. So I'll give you even further background. So ah my parents are both school teachers. So I had zero kind of exposure to really accounting or law or ah really the business world. old My grandfather was a small business owner and I used to help him reconcile his books and and did a little bit of sales tax work for him and kind of found it fascinating. Just the whole accounting world and really found running a business to be something that seemed pretty cool to do. You know, started off an undergrad at LSU and didn't really know what I wanted to do. Thought I was going to, thought I wanted to ah do something in the medical field and ri quickly realized that the site of blood made me sick. So um pivoted from that.
00:04:13
Speaker
and start to think about what it is that you know every business in the world needs and what is it that could really help me to either potentially one day own a business, run a business, or just work in the business world and took an accounting class and really just just got it, you really understood it.
00:04:36
Speaker
um and really just enjoyed it. um Took a tax class and really enjoyed that and thought, you know, this is something that, you know, everyone needs. this is This is a service or a profession that no matter what, at least at the time, you know, I thought no matter what, there'll be a need for ah for this profession.
00:04:58
Speaker
So spend again, sent this graduate from college with accounting and to be honest was still not really sure what I wanted to do. I really enjoyed tax. I really liked the tax world, but didn't really know much about what it meant to be, you know, coming out of school, you always went to interviews and they were like, you know, you want to do compliance consulting? Do you want to do audit tax? I don't want to do tax, but didn't really know the difference between, you know, what compliance and consulting work meant in the tax world.
00:05:28
Speaker
um and decided that I want to try and go to law school and and really learn more about tax law specifically and just to you know continue to improve myself and improve my skill set. And law school, you know, is kind of one of those things where when I went to LSU and um tried to take as many business tax classes and business law classes as I could and really start to really enjoy the tax law side and really enjoyed the intricacies and the complexity of it all.
Complexity and Opportunities in Tax Law
00:06:05
Speaker
And and had had no idea that you know after I graduated, there'd be several massive tax bills that were going to have to be
00:06:14
Speaker
reviewed and and and learned, but certainly thought that it was a really, really interesting area of the law. And again, ever changing the complexity was was was great. And also to be honest, it was a field that most people look at you when you say that you want to be a tax lawyer and they're like, really? Like you want to do that?
00:06:37
Speaker
That's a little crazy, right? Right. And thought to myself, you know, somebody has to do it, right? And if somebody has to do it, then I'll always be um in need and always be there to help. um So, you know, again, decided to go that route, graduated, and ah yeah I got to mention earlier, practice law, and again, really enjoyed that. But At the end of the day, you know the the the CPAs in our profession, the CPA firms that are that are out there, again, they're doing a lot of the but really fun um tax work on a daily basis, weekly basis. um But yeah, it was it was it was really about you know opportunity that um back when I was in school just to
00:07:23
Speaker
understand that you know every business needs accountants. Every business has tax situation problems or needs to have taxes done. And it was a great way for me to kind of start that dream of maybe one day owning a business, whether it was owning a business um at a CPA firm level or just owning a business outside of the world. um But again, it seemed like at the time it was just so a great opportunity out there for anybody who's getting in the profession.
00:07:55
Speaker
That's awesome. And I can tell you, yes, I mean, being an advisor in the tax world, I know myself, you know, it's an ever-changing field that seems like every day we're talking about something new or something that potentially might be coming. So it's good. And you've had quite the journey practicing tax law, serving as a director of a major firm, now as a leading partner. Were there any pivotal moments or career decisions that really shaped that path beyond, you know, you know, what you already spoke about?
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah, you know it's it was it was a lot about you taking the opportunity that was presented and really making the most of it. A lot of accountants will talk to me about should I go to law school or you know what should I do and should I do tax. and and You know, and I've been very, very fortunate, very in my career to be in the right place at the right time at times. You know, the transition from the legal world to the accounting world, for example, I knew a couple of partners at PostWit Netterville and a couple of tax partners that were really well known in the community and actually met them at a marketing event that we had at the firm I was at the time.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I asked them, I said, what's, um, what's it like? Oh, I'm sorry. They're also attorneys as well. So I asked them, you know, what's it like being an attorney working in a con firm? And they both kind of looked at me like, why are you asking, um, are you interested? So, well, I don't know. I'm just, you know, trying to explore.
00:09:26
Speaker
um what's out there and just I'm just asking what's it like, what what is the day they like and um ended up meeting with them and ended up having a great opportunity to become a partner ah pretty quickly um at that firm because of the need that they had at the time and just the opportunity was there. and So really you know throughout my career, I've always tried to look at opportunities that were presented and taking them and and Same thing, even when I was you know practicing accounting or in a CPA firm, as you mentioned, you know the the tax landscape is ever changing and the profession really um thrives on us figuring out the laws and figuring out how to apply those laws and helping clients navigate through all the new laws. So every time they has a new bill,
00:10:19
Speaker
I was studying it, reading it, learning it, figuring out how to apply it when regs came out, doing the same thing. And really, again, having that opportunity to just illustrate within the firm and to the clients that, hey, we know our stuff, like we we we're staying up to date on this stuff. um And I think that's really what has helped me through my career is just constantly being ready and able to assist on you know all the new new things that come through. Because as we mentioned, tax is not stopping. um it's not chain it's not It's not slowing down. is it's It's always changing no matter what. um Whether it's court cases, whether it's regulations, whether it's actual legislation, it's always something we need to pay attention to. and So really just taking that opportunity to kind of be the leader from a thought leadership really has helped to
00:11:15
Speaker
helped the career a lot. That's great. So, and I love asking this question, especially for those tuning in right now who might be new to public accounting. So Brandon, what's your best advice for someone unsure about whether tax is the right path for them? I mean, it's like it's the best. I agree.
00:11:33
Speaker
it's It is, you know, again, it is not for the faint of heart. It is not for someone who just wants to go to work every day and and just push numbers into a tax return and push it out. I mean, you really have to, um you you have to you have to like it, you have to enjoy it. And I think, again, it's it's it's not easy at times. um We do get crunched with time. um It's the nature of the of the practice and profession.
00:12:04
Speaker
but there are a lot of times when you don't have as much work and you have a lot of downtime. So your your crunch times get met with you met with your down times. And really it's a profession that you can do so much with. um it's You have to understand accounting, you have to understand you know a lot of things. You have to understand a lot just to be a tax professional, in addition to being a tax professional. So when you are that well around it,
00:12:31
Speaker
you are an incredible asset to any client, any person that you work with. And ah to me, that's why tax is so fun and interesting is that you really are a valuable resource for anyone that you meet and touch. Even at, you know, cocktail parties, you can be vi a valuable resource when people are asking you about, you know, recent tax legislation, you can spit it out. So to me, it's a fascinating profession that allows you to do so much.
00:13:00
Speaker
and you can go so many places with it. I used to have this book and I think I might still have it, but it was put up with the ABA tax section, the American Bar Association tax section, and it was careers in tax law. um um And it might've been a little you know more focused on the legal side, but still, you know there are probably 70 different professions that were illustrated.
00:13:28
Speaker
and someone who worked in each profession, whether it was government work, or still practitioner, big firm, small firm. um Yeah, it's just, again, it's it's just a great, great profession that provides so much flexibility and so much rewarding experience.
00:13:48
Speaker
That's right. And let's talk about the evolution of the profession. So much has changed in tax over the last decade, let alone technologies change, regulations, client expectations.
Technology and Trusted Advisory
00:13:59
Speaker
um So what do you think is the biggest opportunities for young professionals today within all this?
00:14:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's ah it's a new world. um you know We talk about this kind of jokingly offline um about um TikTok advice and and and things our clients are hearing. And it used to be the the days where you know my neighbor told me I could deduct my my ah suits. um you know That's now the TikTok guy or girl told me I could deduct my suits. um So there is, there is you know again, for for anyone who's out there, especially in the young side, um There's a great deal of opportunity to really be an advisor because that's what clients, you see it and and people are going out to these different platforms to learn because they're seeking high level, good quality. They're not getting much high level necessarily there, but they're looking for you know good quality advice from tax professionals.
00:14:55
Speaker
And it's it's again, it's not just filling out a tax return. It's knowing the rules, knowing the law, and helping clients with that. um You could do amazing things for clients by and helping them with there not just their tax compliance, but also helping them in their planning. and Every business, no matter how big or small you are, unless you're nonprofit, but even nonprofits have to worry about it, it has to deal with taxes.
00:15:24
Speaker
um And so for any any again young person, I say. Education is key and not just education school, but continued education. Um, what, what really bothers me at times is when, you know, people don't spend the time to learn, you know, all the learn kind of these things are really tried to become experts. And that's really where you can, can make, you know, can, can really shine is becoming an expert in a certain topic.
00:15:55
Speaker
Tax is very vast, so it is hard to become an expert in everything, but you know take on the initiative to continue to maintain your education and continue to learn and continue to to improve yourself. it's it's and That's one thing I really enjoy about the profession is it never and never stops. Learning never stops, whether it's learning a law, learning about how to manage your clients, whether learning how to manage your practice, learning new technology that's out,
00:16:23
Speaker
learning how to use a new technology. I think we're still all trying to figure out how to use and AI. um you It's always a learning process, so it's never boring. It's always kind of you know it's always improving yourself to help others.
00:16:42
Speaker
So true. And I agree completely with that, right? And I think key tip there is, you know, education doesn't stop because you got a degree. It continues in this profession daily and, you know, whether it's AI technology, change in law. I mean, it's always, that's what we do.
00:16:57
Speaker
But let me ask you, so, you know, it's a fun that keeps it fun. It keeps it exciting. It's maybe frustrating at times when, you know, when there is something that's new or something that you hear about and you're like, well, is that true? And then you got to figure it out or something new that's that is complicated. It can be it can be, you know, when you might want to bang your head against the wall.
Work-Life Balance During Tax Season
00:17:18
Speaker
But, you know, there's there's you'll find again, there's people to help as people that will help teach you. I mean, it's The resources are out there to to get that assistance. But and that's what keeps it fun for me is again, never, I never once think that I know everything there is about this because yeah it's it's impossible to do that. That's right. Now, tax season can be grueling, can be frustrating. You might even want to bang your head into the wall every now and then. But what do you do outside of work to recharge and keep yourself sane in this process?
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's ah that's a great that's a great question. you know Like I mentioned, it's tax season, whether it's this tax season during spring or you know we have kind of a second tax season in the fall. um We actually just finished our fall tax season yesterday here in Louisiana because we had um some disaster relief from hurricane. ah And I know some others who are suffering from disasters that also are experiencing some delays, but you you have to you have to be able to disconnect from it and you have to take time to yourself You know, I have two daughters, and one of them actually is is as and as another SEC school right now. um Ole Miss, it it did pay me a little bit um to to send her away and to another SEC school, but she did stay in SEC. And I have another daughter who's in high school, and, and you know, you have to take those times to spend with the family and take the time to do to exercise. I enjoy running. um And so, you know, sometimes you just have to
00:18:49
Speaker
and stop what you're working on. and and And maybe you might be in the middle of something, but you know you need to take time to to to yourself. You need your um you know kind of me time or family time. It doesn't have to be just this short time. So I do enjoy exercise. I do enjoy running. Hopefully going to try to do another marathon soon um in the next year. So looking forward to that. But you do need to take that that break And you have to manage, you know, the expectations of what you're working on and certainly communicate all that to the people around you. But um again, my biggest time, the biggest thing I do when I take time off is spend time with the family.
00:19:30
Speaker
um Actually, this weekend, we're actually heading over to Orlando for a cheer competition for my high school daughter who's cheering in Disney World. um and You may say it's during tax season, and like I said, you have to take family time. ah so It's important to take that time off and make sure you're managing the work and managing the clients and managing your people to and help you out while you take a little break. So it's so good. Yeah, I know. And I think at the end of the day, you know, you give back all over the place, whether you're mentoring people, you're speaking, you're organizing conferences, or you're just providing that leadership. And I think that's so key to be able to have yourself in so many different areas, but still, you're getting the job done.
00:20:14
Speaker
So now, as we kind of move into the heart of tax season and surviving it and talking about some tips and insights, we all know this time of year can be brutal, as we talked about, but what's the key to not just surviving, but actually thriving during busy season?
Thriving in Tax Season: Client Management and Communication
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, um yeah yeah it's it's it can be done. um There is is definitely a way to to make busy season better. And every year, you know, we try to make small improvements to the practice to um to make it better.
00:20:43
Speaker
you know I think the days where where we're willing to work 70 hours for a client who you know brings our stuff to you on April 7th is over with. so um Really, you know it's it's a lot about client expectation, client management, and and really trying to you know We say kind of trained clients, but really set expectations on both sides. So really try hard and to you let clients know, here's what I expect from you and here's what you expect from me. you know So if you commit to providing a say forward turnaround, a tax return, for example, then you need to live up that commitment. If the client commits to getting you their information you know on March 10th,
00:21:26
Speaker
yeah have to hold in that commitment. um So, you know, really, to me, the biggest changes we've made over the last several years on trying to, you know, quote, survive tax season or really just make it more manageable for everyone involved is really that client management piece and client expectation piece. And it's not easy um to do, especially when you're trying to set expectations of thousand plus clients, um it it can be difficult to try to reach everyone.
00:21:59
Speaker
um But you really need to come up with ah you know kind of a process of method to, again, set those expectations. We started years ago, a couple of years ago, with setting sort of an expectation that for our 1040 clients, we have a we have a big 1040 practice here. And yeah we would have clients that would show up on April 13th and expect their return to get done on April 15th, because it's always done. It's tough. And that's just not it's not cool.
00:22:27
Speaker
And this is not the way that people work anymore. um So we really started setting deadlines on clients about here's when we expect you to get your stuff to us. If you get us by this date, we'll promise you we'll have it by April 15th. Now, of course, we'll have you know some that the K1's not coming until September, so you have to extend. But for the most part, it was it was pretty um shocking of how many people complied with our request.
00:22:55
Speaker
um Now, it might've been the day of the deadline, you know the the March 15th or whatever day that was set at that time, but um but it worked. And we really were able to push some work around to where it needed to go. um And we had some clients that, of course,
00:23:14
Speaker
didn't like that, and they've moved on. But for the most part, it's allowed us to better manage, you know, the practice. Now, next step is to push that to kind of the business group and and and our auditors and try to, you know, be a little bit better about timelines there too. But you know, baby steps right now, but it's really about client expectations and client communication. Because at the end of the day, again, we're, you know, I think this is something too, that um either young professionals or or all professionals will sometimes miss, and I can miss it sometimes, but you know we are in the customer service business. you know we may not be um but We may not be in the customer service business as much as um as you might be at a restaurant per se, but you know at the end of the day, we are providing customer service and customer service in our ability to service the clients in a way that are mutual for both parties is what we're trying to strive for.
00:24:09
Speaker
And sometimes it's just not a fit. Sometimes time the client wants something we can't provide, ah whether that's a drop everything and do your work or um you know want to meet seven times a year. And it's just not worth it because they're not going to pay that for that. And we're not going to be able to provide that because we just don't have the capacity. So, again, expectations of management are are kind of key.
00:24:31
Speaker
So good. And I know we talked about, you know, you you like to run and spend family time, but, you know, over the years, you kind of, and at least I myself, I know that you've had to learn different ways to develop habits, kind of stay efficient in your work, but also, you know, to kind of keep yourself grounded. And and so what is your go to strategy for managing stress and workload, dealing with clients, things of that nature?
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean it mean, I could tell you from yeah the past couple of days, like I said, we had a deadline and the deadlines are always kind of high stress times. And you you really just have to yeah know find, I'm by nature, a pretty even keel person. I don't get, um despite what my watch tells me that I'm stressed, I don't feel it, but maybe I do. um But you know, when when my watch tells me I'm stressed, I'll have to take a minute and just kind of breathe and and Um, I wouldn't say meditate because I don't know how to meditate. Um, I think and I need to learn because I feel like that is a way to get your mind to relax, but really just, again, just, just calm down, you know, take say take some deep breaths, maybe step away from the computer, take a walk around the office, maybe go take a walk outside.
00:25:44
Speaker
just to kind of calm yourself. um And, you know, there's, we live, we do, you know, we do work in an environment that can be high demand. um But, you know, by and large, what we do is not life and death. And we need to just, again, everything you need to look through a lens of, and you know, is is Yes, this may be a stressful time period. Yes, this may be. I may be really stressed because I have a bunch of people asking me for stuff, but again, no one's going to die if I don't give them that email, if I don't send it right now. So I'm going to take my time. Make sure you have level head, cool heads. There's been many times where
00:26:28
Speaker
You know, drafting the email, like, okay I'm not going to send that right now because I need to take a breath. I need to calm down. That's right. You need to do that because no matter what your profession is, but especially in this profession, there are times when you just kind of at your, at your wit's end, I'll say, and you really just need to take a step back, think about it, relax, talk to somebody if you need help, you know, reach out to friends, whatever it may be. but you know, this this this profession should be fun. um Because again, all the things we talked about, it's it's it's ah exciting to work in this area, and it it should be that way. And sometimes we we do get stressed about it, but you just gotta take a step back and just think about how grateful for you are for what we do.
00:27:14
Speaker
I love it. and yeah You you've said exactly something I always tell people I work with and that is as much as this is important and we want to get it right and we got to get it timely and make sure we exceed expectations. We're not surgeons and we don't have patients on a table where at the end of the day they they're dying because we're still working on their tax return. you know so And I think that's a good reminder to know how we can reflect on this. So let me ask you something. Let's just flip the script a little bit. Let's just assume I'm your client. All right. And what's something like a tax professional can say to their clients, say, how do I make your life easier? You know, and if I'm the client, you know, and every year, maybe I'm a good client, maybe I'm a bad client, but what can the client be doing to make our lives easier? Because I think we need to set that expectation. So kind of talk about that.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. we we We talk about that quite a bit as far as how do we improve, again, back to how do we kind of, and I hate to use the word training because that's that's probably not the right word, but how do we communicate the clients to improve the process? and and yeah We are all about processes. we We like our processes and sometimes processes can kind of get in the way of of either innovation or improvement. um So sometimes you have to take a step back and say, are these processes working anymore? Do we need something different? you know Maybe there's a chain of of events and there's some part of the chain that just doesn't work properly. But on the on the client standpoint, you know one thing that that we try to communicate to clients is
00:28:52
Speaker
Don't send us pictures of your tax stuff. That really, really, really annoys professionals. oh Yes, I agree. And I can't say how many people send pictures of their tax documents. um but But, you know, it's really, it's it's not even about, you know, we want this one way for you to communicate with this. You know, we do try to match the level of sophistication decline or the level of desire of the client to communicate with this.
00:29:21
Speaker
So you know we have portals, for example, for for client intake. Some clients love them, some clients don't. you know We're not going to push that to everybody and say, you need to use a portal. um At the same time, you know we do try to tell clients, look, don't send me an email a day for 10 days with your stuff. you know Wait till you get everything together yeah and then send us when you have everything and we'll let you know if we're missing something.
00:29:45
Speaker
um you know don't ah just yeah know Don't piecemeal it. um and you know Again, we try to who tried to match the client's expectations of Again, do you want to use a portal? Do you want to email us? Do you want to bring it in? um yeah we still are are Even though we're paperless in terms of everything we have is you know scanned in, we still have a lot of paper in our office. um But and so we haven't gotten to that point where you know we have sort of one size fits all.
00:30:15
Speaker
And and maybe maybe one day we will, but at this point, you know it's kind of like, let's again try to meet the client where they are they're at with some degree of flexibility, but certainly there are certain things that we just don't want. you know We just don't want, again, like I said, don't send me pictures of your W2 and think I'm gonna prepare your text term because you texted me that. um you know we need ah We need proper channels here to communicate. so We try to stay to the proper channel as much as we can, um with, of course, every year taking a look and say, well, is this making sense? Do we need to do something different? um you know What's our processes? And and we have so we have fumbled occasionally. Some people don't like our processes, and we either disconnect or we say, sorry, we'll try something different. But you know you' got to always be experimenting to some degree, too.
00:31:09
Speaker
So important there, i think I think, yeah, there's no one way to get tax documents to the prepare. And at the end of the day, they come through all these great levels of technology, but we also have to kind of set the standard of what we want. And if it doesn't work, let's let's keep our head on a swivel and shift. And I think that's important.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah, you have to look at your tech stack. and And we do, we look at our tech stack pretty regularly. You know, now, so it's only part of a bigger firm now. So we have less control of the tech stack. But I know, you know, they're constantly looking at tech stack. And does it make sense for us? Does it make sense for the client? You know, if you think about it, and I try to, you know, try to think about whenever I'm even reviewing tax returns, or putting out a tax return, or or communicating tax information,
00:31:53
Speaker
And I try to think of it through the lens of I'm talking to a non-tax professional. I'm talking to you my daughter um who's 19. What would the communication be like if I'm talking to somebody who doesn't ain't know anything about tax or doesn't know anything about the process? And I think we are so wrapped up in a times that we kind of forget.
00:32:11
Speaker
that people may not realize the deadline is April 15th. I know that sounds stupid, and but sometimes people are like, oh, I didn't know that it was deadline. Like, okay, well, especially when you start having new state deadlines and deadlines for this, deadlines for that, deadlines changed, extended deadlines, disaster deadlines, um people get real confused quickly about deadlines. um But again, yeah you kind of have to step back and think,
00:32:36
Speaker
Like I said, I try to communicate with clients in a way that makes sense to them, even though it's really difficult to do that. And how do you do that? Again, whether you do, whether you do a video, you know, some firms will video kind of their tax return review and send that to the client, whether you do an email, whether you have some other method, I think it's important to come up with some kind of method to do that. Because again, back to the customer service and back to the client relationship.
00:33:02
Speaker
Tax is hard and you need to try to communicate and and boil it down to you know as easy as you can for clients, even though it's difficult to do sometimes. That's right. Now you've worked with clients across many different industries. You work with obviously people within your organization, but also, you know, with your voluntary work with other associations and and and getting to know people in other firms, you have met a lot of people. Now, by talking to everyone, what are some of the most common mistakes people see and as far as tax preparers in the business side or individual side that typically happen during tax season that you can kind of think of or off top of your head?
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, no, so, you know, Mark mentioned that the I really, really enjoy one of the one of the kind of know another another great thing about profession is that we all are dealing with the same things um and it's comforting at times. I go to a lot of conferences, a lot of ah lot of events, um volunteer for the state society and the AICPA and other organizations. And and really that volunteer at work has really helped me to one, meet a lot of people and kind of understand that the challenges that we face with the practice are not unique to me or to us. It's it's you know something that's that everyone has trouble with.
00:34:25
Speaker
And I really think that the client expectation part is something that every client, every CPI I talk to at other firms or every, you know, business business owners will will complain about their CPAs or CFO, they'll complain about CPAs because again, there's just that expectation gap. um And it's it trying to close that gap seems to be something that again, you hear a lot of professionals talk about of We're trying to do this, we're trying to communicate that, and we have resistance because of this, that, and the other. um And again, change, in many cases, is evolving. Change of some sort, whether it's changing ah professionals or changing in the way that you're doing yous going about your work, but it's it's really um you know trying to navigate that expectation gap and close it. That's yeah know that's something you hear a lot.
00:35:22
Speaker
um on you know every every time I talk professional and every committee I'm on, it's always, you know especially if it's if it's more you know ah public professionals and people talking about kind of working with clients, it's all about just trying to navigate that. um that and you know We still do have a talent shortage. um I think there's no secret there in trying to get yeah kind of people into the tech profession.
00:35:48
Speaker
seems to be getting a little better. I don't know if it's supplier demand side is getting a little better. um But you know there's there' are certainly challenges there and and challenges with staffing and and challenging with with getting good quality staff and keeping good quality staff. So a lot of conversation around that too. um But again, I would say the biggest the biggest side and on the client side is really that expectation gap that like everyone's working hard to close it because That's the worst thing is, again, client is expecting X, they're getting Y, and it's it's it's it's hard to close that gap and it has to be closed if you want to you know keep happy clients.
00:36:27
Speaker
Good. Thank you. And so we know tax laws are constantly
Future Tax Changes and Impact
00:36:32
Speaker
shifting. It feels like every year there might be something that's being talked about, something that's being proposed or stuff that we got to navigate. So for this tax season for 2025 here, what are things the professionals and clients have to keep in mind and what are we navigating right now? Yeah.
00:36:50
Speaker
What are we not navigating right now? It's true. I mean, it's, um, 2025 is going to, we, we've, um, yeah, we've, we've talked about this a lot at at the various conferences over the last year, you know, kind of leading up to this period. Um, you know, you're having a change in the president and then the executive branch and the legislative branch and, and what's going to happen. Um,
00:37:16
Speaker
You know, we're waiting to see what happens on on extension of task on jobs act and what that looks like. You know, there's been so much focus on spending. um Recently, there's been so much focus on the debt. This this stats are just staggering. We start looking at um kind of the the.
00:37:37
Speaker
the the size of our debt and the size of the federal government. So yeah know there's just a whole lot of things going on right now. There's a lot of noise in the system. Right. um And, you know, it's how much is IRS going to get funded for 2025? What does IRS look like? How many employees take the offer to leave? There's there's a lot of stuff out there that's impacted the profession in 2025.
00:38:01
Speaker
um And i'm not sure it's all gonna be positive impacts so i'm not going to pretend to say that. Things that happen in 25 going to be fantastic for the fashion, but. I will say that there will be an opportunity for us to again be a client's advisor on tax changes because whether they extend task on jobs act in some fashion, whether they let it sunset.
00:38:24
Speaker
Hopefully we know. There will be an opportunity to talk to clients about, here's some things you need to be thinking about. you know Should you consider going back to C-Corp or going C-Corp, for example, is a big topic that keeps coming up in recent years.
00:38:42
Speaker
Should you do anything with your estate? you know Is the exemption going to drop down to 7 million instead of the 13, 14 million is going to be at um over the next year or two? you know what Again, what's going to happen with the estate exemption? Are they going to drop it? What's going to happen with state tax deduction, SALT cap?
00:38:59
Speaker
um A lot of plans have been put in place to pass your entity elections, PT elections on entities and you know to kind of get around the salt cap. And is that salt cap going to be in place? Is it going to be removed? I mean, there's just so many things that um I think it's our job to focus on things that we can control and things that we know.
00:39:22
Speaker
and not get into clients saying, hey, I heard the IRS is going to be defunded and shut down. Should I pay my taxes next year? Stay out of that, because we've already heard it. you know We've already heard the um the the the comments about the IRS and what's going to happen there. um So again, we have to you know we're professionals. We need to stay clear from all the the noise. Try to have a TikTok um you know and all the tax advice they give there.
00:39:52
Speaker
but ah But really, it's going to be a fun year um to just see what all transpires. It's going to be an interesting year. And we have a great opportunity to be very valuable to our clients in helping them work through all that's going to be coming up. And it's just there's just so much, so much that's going to be happening in 2025. I would agree. I'm trying to deal with 2024 taxes.
00:40:17
Speaker
so And exactly, and and and as we go, and you but you said it right right on the head, I think is the, we have this opportunity to provide the client's resource, to provide that advisory level um with all the uncertainty in the tax law.
00:40:34
Speaker
You know, right now we know there we got TCGA sun setting at the end of this year. We know that that's that's that statutory. However, what's going to happen beyond that we can you and I can have that we can debate all day long. But the reality is with the reconciliation bill having to be created, we need.
00:40:49
Speaker
you know the legislative branch to come together and figure out what are the budgetary um guidelines for this. And that's still up in the air. And so we want one aspect, you want lots of cuts in spending. On the other hand, a tax bill to to do everything everyone's talking about is going to be an enormous price tag. So we'll see where this goes. Now, when it comes to the tax law, you know if you take away all this other stuff,
00:41:14
Speaker
What are some areas that you think are the most, that that you've worked with that are the most complicated or confusing areas of the tax code that you seem to repetitively run into? Maybe it's not every day, but in a given year. Yeah, that's that's ah that's a great question. um i would I would say, you know, back to my kind of one of my comments earlier, which is, you know, learning and digging in and diving into tax changes.
00:41:41
Speaker
is can be extremely fascinating, fun, and sometimes frustrating and difficult. And, you know, Tax Code and Jobs Act provided, I guess, you know, tax EPA is a great deal of stuff to learn. And we we had great people who were writing about it and tweeting about it and posting about it and and everyone's trying to learn at the same time all the different rules.
00:42:04
Speaker
um you know I would say, yeah recently, we're running into you know some of the more complicated provisions that we deal with. you know Once 3J, interest limitation rules, those are complicated rules. um and It's kind of interesting. you know um that we spent a lot of time learning about the qualified business income deduction, QBI, and one on cap A. And I think at one time we were really good at applying it. And I feel like now it's just, you know, you kind of see it being misapplied quite a bit now. um That's a pretty complicated area too, that, you know, I think they tried to simplify the task code back in 2017 and just added a ton of more provisions that, you know, just made it super complicated for us as professionals on a compliance side.
00:42:48
Speaker
um You know, those are those are kind of recent memory type of provisions that I find to be very complicated. um And especially when you get into the kind of nuances and nitty gritty of it all. um And just navigating, you know, just the simple things, you know, travel entertainment still, you know, comes up quite a bit with our clients and what they can write off or they can't write off and, you know, and and and just all those rules. um But I would say, again, kind of recently, you know, start talking about some of our higher network worth clients and or our partnerships, you know, the rules that apply their partnerships are just very complicated. And that's one area that um i'd I'd say it's all time when i'm speaking to my lawyer friends, when they asked me, you know, what's the biggest difference between price of law and pricing accounting?
00:43:39
Speaker
And I'll say partnerships, it's the biggest difference. And like, what do you mean? And I'm like, it's like, it's like two different languages. And so, you know, it's like, countless think of one way, lawyers think another way, and there's two different ways of thinking. So overall, that's probably the most complicated area of the law, is partnerships and partnership taxation. But that's what makes it fun now. It makes it fun because it's complicated to me.
00:44:02
Speaker
I would agree. and I find partnerships to be the most complicated, but yet the the most value add to talk about and learn about. you know So we've seen, you know in in the last decade, we've had Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, we've had the CARES Act, we've had the Inflation Reduction Act, we have new legislation on the horizon. So all these things are up in the air in a given year. right So with all that, how what is your approach to advising clients or telling your staff to advise clients in this realm? because Because obviously, it's coming from everywhere, like you said, neighbors, friends, meetings are at family parties, TikTok, whatever it is, but what what are you doing to advise them so to me keep them level? Yeah, I think, you know, it's and one, again, especially our staff, you know, it's just
00:44:48
Speaker
Being educated, pay yeah read the morning ah alerts. you know we We subscribe to B&A, we subscribe to um we subscribe to all the different tax services, all the different resources, all the different you know tax notes, and all all the different services are out there.
00:45:05
Speaker
You know, stay up to date, you know, read, read at least, you know, you may not think you have time and, or maybe you don't quite understand, you know, everything you're reading, but stay up to date with what's going on. Um, you know, if there's a, if there's a case that comes out that says that, you know, now permits this c type of deduction or takes a position that maybe was sort of questionable in the past and and you learn about it and then you can start applying to your clients. That's great.
00:45:30
Speaker
um especially when you know new legislation comes out, stay on top of it, you know read the read the the the blue book that comes out from the Joint Committee on Taxation, it explains it all. I tell people this all the time, when I first started practicing law, I worked for a state and local tax lawyer, and I knew nothing about state and local tax, like zero, um especially sales tax, because in law school, I don't know about an undergrad that didn't have an an undergrad, but in law school,
00:46:00
Speaker
Um, they had a, they actually offered a state and local tax class and it was all constitutional law. And and I'm like, I hate a constitutional law. That was not my thing. My brain didn't work that way. But, but when I started practicing law, I worked for a guy who that's all he did was sales to use tax. And, and, and I had to learn it all. I had to learn on the job.
00:46:26
Speaker
And so I've had to spend time reading cases, reading the information bulletins that are being published, reading, going to the multi-state taxation um website to find information. I mean, there's a lot of education that you you know kind of, you know unfortunately, um have to do on your own and do your own time. And sometimes it's on you know um an the client's time, other the times you're doing your own. and to me, again, staying educated about what's going on is key to providing your clients the best service. And similarly, when something comes out, you know, we try to produce ah alerts, like clients know that there's, you know, this new bill or this new
00:47:08
Speaker
potential tax savings. you know Right now, there's yeah we' we're looking at how to mitigate issues with 163J and how to deal with that. So again, there's always something to talk to a client about, and it's just a matter of looking at your client clients and looking at, okay, what's going to the client?
00:47:28
Speaker
what kind of you know What kind of issues are they facing? Maybe they're you know maybe that self-employment tax is going up, so you want to look at something there with an S Corp. Just looking at that and saying, okay, what can I help my clients with? Let's communicate to them about that. And ultimately, again, staying on top of the news, staying on the top of the cycle and alerting them that, hey, this thing's coming down a pipe. But to your point too, there's so much uncertainty you can't do in a way that's too alarming. You know you need to say, hey, you know we know what this we know this is what's happening right now.
00:47:58
Speaker
If this changes, we need to be prepared to act. So you do need to but be prepared. um For example, you need to be prepared if the estate tax exemption does go to $7 million, dollars because that's what it's scheduled to right now to go to. So you need to be taking steps to prepare your clients for that. um And some clients may be like, hey, President Trump's not going to let that happen.
00:48:22
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe we'll, maybe won't. I have no idea. Um, you know, so I'm not going to do anything. Well, that's, that's, that's on you, but at least I told you about it. So at least, at at least I got you prepared for it. So, you know, education again is, is, is key to all of this and trying to educate in a way, you know, we do, we hold webinars, we hold, um, clients, uh, seminars where we might clients to come to our office to hear about what's going on in tax, you know, constantly providing tax updates.
00:48:51
Speaker
ah pushing out content. And that can be harder for some firms, you know smaller firms, but you know just trying to stay on top of that is is is, I think clients appreciate that even though they might not understand what they're getting at times. They always appreciate that they're hearing from you about yeah know certain things and you know having your staff involved and keeping them involved with, again, learning the new stuff, learning the stuff that they need to know and learning the planning.
00:49:15
Speaker
That helps out a lot too, because they you can leverage that down and get them to you know start working with clients directly on those things. Brandon, this has been an incredible conversation, but before we wrap up today, I have to ask you, if you can go back and give yourself one piece of advice at the start of your career, what would it be?
Advice for New Tax Professionals and Managing Burnout
00:49:35
Speaker
o ah you know that's That's a tough one, because I would say that I've been extremely, extremely fortunate. um I never thought that I would be where I'm at today. If I was looking back 25 years ago, um I'd say that, you know, i definitely had a goal to own my own business one day and be a business owner. And, you know, certainly being in a partnership with, ah you know, hundreds of other partners, maybe that isn't the same thing, but it's close. um But, you know, I've always wanted to, ah you know, I joke with people too that,
00:50:11
Speaker
If I go back to myself in high school, there are a couple of careers that I thought about that I really wanted to to look into. One was a, ah um I guess maybe it's my mean college. One was and a Navy Air Force pilot. um The other was a tax lawyer. um And there's one more, and I can't think right now it is, but the connecting factor of it is that They were all played by Tom Cruise and in different movies. yeah So Top Gun was my favorite movie growing up. So I wanted to be a Navy pilot. Unfortunately, my vision kind of held me back from that. um um And then the next thing is Tom Cruise actually plays a tax lawyer in the firm. That's right. The firm by John Grisham. um And there was one more I can't think of the other movie. Now I've taught my head. But, um you know, to be honest, I'll probably be a pilot. If my vision would have, if my vision wasn't as bad as it was, I probably wouldn't that right.
00:51:07
Speaker
um because I really do enjoy flying and and planes and the whole concept. But again, I'm happy where I'm at and happy how everything has has gone. We're going to have to call you Maverick from now on, I think. so I really wish I could remember that led to the last one, but there was a third ah there a third of third career that i was I really thought about and it just so happened that It's also a Tom Cruise movie, got it but mission impossible. It might've been, it might've been a CIA agent or something like that. There you go. So, you know, for those that are feeling overwhelmed, frustrated in the industry, maybe even burned out because it's just beating them down. Any words of quick and encouragement you can give them to kind of keep them in the game.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's, burnout's a real thing. I mean, we can't just true coat that and say that it's not something that happens in our profession. But, you know, try to tell people when I feel staff or even some of our other partners who are starting to kind of get to that point where you could tell they're getting burned out.
00:52:13
Speaker
Um, you know, it's just talk to somebody, tell, tell, tell whoever you need to that this is happening and we'll work with you and we'll work through it. And whether it's take some time off, whether it's again, try to try to reduce the amount of work. I mean, it's just really.
00:52:29
Speaker
You shouldn't ever get to the point in your career where you just feel just so frustrated and defeated that you want to quit. um Again, maybe the place you're at is not the right fit, but ultimately, you know this profession is a great profession and just take you know take everything that we do um and the work that we do and the the and and really lean into that we we work in a great profession and with great people. And again, might just be finding in your fit, but this is absolutely the best profession being a tax tax professional. um And just got to remember that that it's. it's There is a there is an end to the rainbow um at the end of tax season, um and you will get there and then you'll have a great time after that for a few months and then we'll be back at it. But
00:53:20
Speaker
You know, take some time to yourself and and try to keep your mental health on top top of mind. That's a great way to end it. Brandon, this has been such a valuable discussion. Really appreciate your friendship, um your leadership, you sharing your wisdom and your stories with us today, and even your practical insights. I think a lot of people will get a lot of benefit of what you had to share with us today. So thank you for being a part of this. Thank you for having me.
Episode Wrap-Up
00:53:49
Speaker
And for our listeners, if you found today's conversation helpful, don't forget to subscribe to Tax News Now so you never miss an episode. And if you know a fellow tax professional or a client who could benefit from these insights, share this episode with them. I'm sure they could use it to keep them moving forward and helping them during this tax season. Thanks for joining us today.