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EP6: The Power of Early Careers with Greg Mangham and Charlie Radnor
60 Plays1 year ago
In our latest mini-series, 'Breaking Bread: Exploring Hospitality as the Ultimate Accessible Career', we are delighted to welcome special guests Greg Mangham and Charlie Radner for this episode on 'The Power of Early Careers.'
Greg Mangham, Founder & Chief Executive of Only a Pavement Away, joins us to discuss the remarkable work of this charity. Only a Pavement Away is dedicated to creating stability through employment by connecting individuals from socially disadvantaged backgrounds with opportunities in the hospitality industry.
We are also joined by Charlie Radnor, Early Careers Manager at BaxterStorey, who is on a mission to foster inclusivity by building a strong candidate community, promoting social mobility, and establishing Education Gateways within our business.
During this episode, we discuss the impact of Only A Pavement Away, as they bridge the gap between socially disadvantaged individuals and the hospitality sector. We explore how their efforts are not only transforming lives but also reshaping the industry as a whole, making hospitality an appealing and accessible career choice for a broader range of candidates.
Tune in to discover how the power of early careers and charities like Only A Pavement Away can drive positive change and foster inclusivity within the hospitality sector.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Breaking Bread'
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to FYI The Backstory Podcast. I'm Samantha Wakeham, Head of Creative at Backstory, and your host for our next mini-series, Breaking Bread, exploring hospitality as the ultimate accessible career.
Making Hospitality Inclusive
00:00:14
Speaker
In this episode, we will be discussing the important topic of making hospitality a space of inclusion, an attractive choice for candidates, and exploring how the industry needs to think differently when creating job opportunities and hiring talent.
00:00:27
Speaker
In these times with the steep decline of hospitality candidates post COVID and Brexit, businesses that foster social mobility and offer educational pathways are not only engaging in doing the right thing or are nice to have, instead they are thinking differently, strategically harnessing a valuable pool of candidates that has become an increasingly valuable resource as the landscape of recruitment undergoes transformation.
Introducing Charlie & Greg
00:00:49
Speaker
To start off this series, I am joined by our backstory early careers manager, Charlie Radner, who is on a mission to create an inclusive community of candidates and drive social mobility and education gateways in our business. We love seeing the important work Charlie does to make a real difference. Also with me today is special guest, Greg Mangum, founder and chief executive of Only a Payment Away, a charity that creates stability through employment by connecting people from socially disadvantaged backgrounds into hospitality.
00:01:15
Speaker
Greg and his team's incredible work is fostering action to vulnerable communities with great impact. Thank you Charlie and Greg for joining us today. It's really great to have you on our podcast and joining our recruitment series.
Innovative Recruitment Practices
00:01:30
Speaker
So first up Charlie, it's a real pleasure to have you with us. Can you just tell the listeners a little bit about you and what your roles in early careers managers involve and why is it so important to you?
00:01:41
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for having me. I work within the recruitment team. We are working on a newly launched initiative to do with early careers. So as part of the recruitment team, we have your traditional recruiters. And what I concentrate on is finding and identifying candidates who
00:02:00
Speaker
perhaps we wouldn't be able to find through traditional methods of recruitment who wouldn't just be able to go onto our website and apply as you normally would. And so that would be through, as you mentioned, education gateways. But as well as that, we look at partnering with social mobility providers and charities and organisations who give
00:02:22
Speaker
people a chance to get into employment who perhaps wouldn't be able to, as I say, apply through a normal method. So that's through our partnerships with only a pavement away.
Founding 'Only a Payment Away'
00:02:32
Speaker
And I think it's a demonstration of our commitment to our inclusivity and our diversity that we want to continue with it amongst our employees and our workforce.
00:02:46
Speaker
And that means finding people from all walks of life and giving them a chance in our world and looking after them once we get them in. So yeah, it's early days, but that's what I do at the moment. Well, thank you, Johnny, and Greg as well. It's a real pleasure to have you with us. Can you, it's quite a big question, can you introduce only a paper towel way and tell us your story behind funding and founding this charity?
00:03:13
Speaker
I think the first thing to say that's really important that only payment away will get from this is to have met Charlie because one of the things not having been a charity board or involved in it is prevention and I think things like the early careers program and seeking out where you can get into say referral units or people who wouldn't necessarily have applied for a job with Baxter story or into some of the operations
00:03:44
Speaker
divergent on the charities and add value to society. So I think that what you're doing on early careers is very important, and more people should do it. Yeah, of course.
Charity's Impact & Funding
00:03:52
Speaker
Only a play by the way? God, that started as in all good hospitality after a Saturday night out in the strings. So Jill and I, my wife and I were walking along, and we were just suddenly taken back by the amount of rough sleepers, and that they were the same age as our nieces and our nephews. And then Jill just said, someone should do something. I said, well, we've got 80,000 vacancies in hospitality.
00:04:13
Speaker
So she said, why don't you do something? I lined up with Crysis and a guy there called Dulao who's still a trustee and a guy called Ben who I did consultancy work for and is a pal and he's now a trustee and has been since the beginning and we said if we do it properly can we get some people into work and I was then gonna go off and back to my consultancy as you do when you semi-retired.
00:04:35
Speaker
Luke looked at your job to go back into betting and Jill said you're going to do what Donal said. You're going to come in, help a few people, bugger off basically. So that night we closed the consultancy down and we set up only a payment away and we've got some great trustees including Maria.
00:04:52
Speaker
Dan Friffen from YouFolks, and we work very simply. We have a jobs board that is locked down through logins, so only our members can see the jobs, what can apply for the jobs, and our employers can post the jobs. And then if someone goes through the secure jobs board,
00:05:10
Speaker
then if they get a job, then we give them financial and emotional support for a year after. So we will pay people's rent, we pay them their debts, their utility bills, help them with their clothing and their food. And to date, we've placed up until this morning 386 people into work.
00:05:26
Speaker
of which 295 are still going. We lost a fair few of our custodial friends during the pandemic because they were often more lucrative ways to work and didn't have any support. And our average length of service is about 40 weeks. And those 386 that are in work are only about $11.5 million in the economy. And hospitality funders. No, we don't get funding from anywhere else. It's totally hospitality.
00:05:53
Speaker
That was one of my questions. How do you raise this money? It's hospitality funders. They fund us. And it's also true campaigns we do. So we have a big event coming up in September. It's our fundraiser, Cook and Dine, where we raise 35. One of my daughters runs a thing called Hiking Against Homelessness, where we take people. We took them to Snowden. Next year, we're taking them to the Peak District. And then we're going to go to Xtreme.
00:06:18
Speaker
and then we're going to do really extreme Kilimanjaro and things like that. We do a thing called peddling for pubs where we have 50 riders who are going out to Kenya next
Recruitment Challenges in Hospitality
00:06:26
Speaker
year, but we also do it locally. We're doing Tough Mudder in a couple of weeks. I have to say here, we, I do not do any of these. I go on with a t-shirt, support, and do an identity catering. Cheering on. And cheer it on, I think. As they do it, Tough Mudder, they say, that was tough. I say, you should have queued up for the burger, man. That was horrendous. But that's how we get funded.
00:06:48
Speaker
So I wanted to talk about the hospitality crisis and the recruitment crisis that we have at the moment and the challenges that we face in the industry. At the moment, I've read around 400,000 vacancies in the UK alone for 2022, accounting for a quarter over pre-pandemic figures.
00:07:06
Speaker
However, I miss these statistics. There is still a substantial number of individuals in the UK who are seeking employment. What, in your opinion, is the reason for this gap and what do you think we can do to try and close that? Well, I mean, yeah, let's address the elephant in the room. Hospitality does get a bad rap and
00:07:26
Speaker
I think unless you've been in it or you know, you're part of it, you're either, you want to be in it and you're passionate about hospitality or you're out. So I think, you know, we can all do as much as we can to bang the drum about the career prospects that you can have if you enter hospitality. But I think it's really important
Redefining Industry Image
00:07:50
Speaker
with the work that Only A Pavement Away does and what we can backstory just try and do
00:07:56
Speaker
which is to give people the opportunity from the beginning. All we can do is initiatives like this and work with people like Own Your Pavement Away to be able to give those people a chance who on paper might get overlooked in any other situation in a pool of candidates with other people with experience. But we have such a spectrum of roles and we can take people from so many different walks of life
00:08:22
Speaker
and give them a chance and then it's up to them to take that. And I think that that's exactly what we're doing and that's what hospitality can do for people, but you have to give them a chance to experience that for themselves. And that's the commitment the Baxter story has shown by launching this initiative to give those people a chance and to take those people who are passionate and hungry for work and will be looking at their careers
00:08:51
Speaker
in a different way to perhaps other people who have been to college or to university or perhaps, you know, are looking better in Universal Commons on paper and try and bridge that gap between, you know, those people looking for work and the opportunities we can give them. I want to go back to that elephant in the room and that image of hospitality. Do you think there's something that we can do to make that image glossier or better for a better term of work?
00:09:17
Speaker
I think it's about showing success stories and it's about showing people. It's not what you think if you haven't been, you know, as part of the world of it. Working in hospitality is absolutely fantastic.
00:09:30
Speaker
if you are supported and looked after and are part of a team that create wonderful food, wonderful service and that's what we need to show people and I think that's what we have the opportunity to do at Baxter Story. It's about shining examples of giving somebody that role and how they can flourish.
00:09:48
Speaker
And the career opportunities, there's so many. I mean, you've both been in the industry for a number of years. You wouldn't be here if there wasn't that opportunity. So I think that kind of image of a career growth needs to be shouted about more.
Supportive Work Environments
00:10:02
Speaker
Definitely. I agree with you. I think we need to.
00:10:05
Speaker
changed, we need to stamp out a couple of things. A, we need to get rid of this, anybody saying we're low skilled. I met someone who said to me, you know, this is good, you'll get people who are facing homelessness and prison leavers and military person who have suffered, you know, anxiety and PTSD, he's low skilled, isn't he? So I just said, do you want to do half an hour on the barista station? So I took him to a coffee chain, put him on the barista station.
00:10:31
Speaker
I'd take you for a drink afterwards. There was frothy milk everywhere. There was cappuccino everywhere. I said now, when I started off, you know, if you're talking about it, it was, you always made the chips look golden. The peas were always green. The steak always looked like it had been grilled. You've got 400 of those going out on a Saturday night. That's not low-skilled. That's pressure and I think we need to get rid of that. And not just because he's our ambassador, but I think we need more people like the Michelin-star chef, Tom Aikens, around.
00:11:00
Speaker
who actually talks about it as a career and doesn't do it so he can have his picture taken and get on television. You know, when we go and sometimes do recruitment fairs in prisons, we get the same thing. Why would I want to join hospitality? It's 30 pence an hour. It's every evening till two o'clock. And I get shouted out and sworn out by this crazy chef.
00:11:21
Speaker
We'll know, actually. You get shares, benefits, uniforms. You're paid above the London living wage. You can be a manager of your own outlet within 18 months, two years. You get training. You've got team camaraderie. We support you. And they suddenly leave the dry lining queue and the bricklaying queue. I want to know more about hospitality.
00:11:40
Speaker
And I think if we, and I think nothing is, we need to possibly stop telling everybody that we're in the Maya. Oh, it's terrible, we've got, because people are thinking, I'm not gonna go near hospitality, because they're shutting down. We need to actually get a story out there that's exciting and do what Charlie says is that, you know, this is open to everyone. You can come in and you can end up at the top of the food chain, so to speak. You can get in, you know, and when we do sort of like taster sessions and what we call our passport to employment,
00:12:10
Speaker
The example I'm gonna give you is that we've got a guy who had a stroke, lost the use of his right side, couldn't speak for three years. He's now working at the Hilton Park Lane.
00:12:21
Speaker
because we held a course in there and the general manager liked Gerald. Gerald said, I won't get a job here, his speech was really bad and so he's working in the laundry and he loves it. The manager of the laundry says to everyone, you don't interrupt Gerald, you let him speak. He would not have walked in and applied for a job, he definitely wouldn't have walked into them.
00:12:42
Speaker
Park Lane Hotel, but if we can get stories like that out, like Charlie says, you know, we can start to get the good news stories out. Other people from diverse backgrounds and people who are suffering some form of vulnerability will think, hang on a minute.
00:12:55
Speaker
We don't want to use someone like Gerald as this poster boy feel sorry, but we've got loads of great examples of people who have come in at the bottom and worked their way up. I agree it's an excited industry, but we have to accept the fact that it's not going to be for everybody. You have to love it, don't you? Yeah. In what other world can you go into an entry-level role and have
00:13:19
Speaker
so many pathways that if you're interested in you can you can follow and get to the top and we need to break that traditional method of a recruitment manager or a general manager looking at somebody on a piece of paper and judging them before they've even met them because like Greg said you know that that person wouldn't have made it into that hotel or spoke to anybody and it's about people it's not about
00:13:43
Speaker
about what they look like on paper, it's not about the words, it's about that person, and it's about showing them what we can give them, and them showing us what they can give us, and taking the opportunity of those people, not the CVs, and not what's written down. Yeah, I think that's really important, because I think, you know, just sitting on the train, you hear the contractors on the train, or people who are doing other jobs, come out and say, oh, you know, like, they got me to San Jose, because they were late a couple of days on the train,
00:14:12
Speaker
I have found one employee, one of 125 employers, has ever just said a sector.
00:14:19
Speaker
They've always said, I hear that they're late. They're looking disheveled. They're not the person I employed. I think we should give them some support. I think we need to talk to them. And I don't know another industry that does that. When I first started this, we said we have to have managers who are, he or she has to be empathetic to people's situations. I'm yet to ever have to say to an employer, we can't use that manager or manager s because they're like Attila the Hun.
00:14:48
Speaker
They all want it to work because, as one chief accepted me, we've all got one, haven't we? We've all got someone who's had mental health issues, or might know someone's been in prison, or been in the military, or suffered homelessness, and it's changing those people's perceptions that those people can add a value. But being commercial as well, there's certain people you can't employ.
00:15:09
Speaker
I think something you mentioned earlier about this kind of misconception that you're going to be shouted out or not treated particularly well in hospitality and Charlie we had a conversation a couple weeks back about an experience where you felt in your role you weren't being treated very well and you almost left.
00:15:26
Speaker
Since that time, have you seen a difference in the industry? And do you think that that is still happening? People are saying, I'm going to be shouted at, I'm not going to be looked after if I join hospital. It's something I feel so passionately about because it's a very unique sort of old school way of looking at hospitality. And when I started out,
00:15:50
Speaker
more years ago than I'd like to admit. I've worked in the bottom end of hospitality and those early days of looking after somebody when they're new in a business are so important and they're the times and the people that you never forget.
00:16:08
Speaker
And I wholeheartedly say it's not like that anymore, for the most part. And why I do what I do is because I would want those people that we engage with through these partnerships.
00:16:26
Speaker
to be given the best start and the best impression of a business and looked after because hospitality doesn't have to be like that. There's businesses in every industry that will not look after people and hospitality is, you know, it's not the one where you get shouted at and mistreated anymore and that's not what backs the story do. And the whole point of this is to give somebody a chance and once we employ them, look after them properly,
00:16:56
Speaker
and take the passion that they have and give them the chance to go wherever they want.
Digital Inclusion Efforts
00:17:02
Speaker
Working on a split shift or a 14-hour shift in a pub or whatever you're doing, it keeps you in the industry or it makes you leave. And you come through and go, that was really hard. But I now work in a business where we actively look after people. I'd like to say that we're changing the way that
00:17:24
Speaker
hospitality can be viewed and there are opportunities in so many different types of role and we would never want to take somebody and then them have a career ending sort of experience with us that put them off. So yeah, I want to break that stigma of hospitality being a career where you can't enjoy yourself.
00:17:50
Speaker
the satisfaction you get when you go to some of our locations and see how happy those people are when they've just been given a chance, that's the best thing we can see and we can do. So I found a start whilst preparing for this conversation that 6% of UK homes do not have access to the internet and that older people and those from financially vulnerable or disadvantaged backgrounds often remain digitally excluded and potentially aren't finding the jobs that are out there.
00:18:19
Speaker
So in light of this, can only a pavement away work to support those who don't have access to the internet? I think we can. I think all companies can. You know, when we do our recruitment fairs and what we call our taster days to introduce someone. There are an awful lot of people who
00:18:36
Speaker
can't log on to a system and, you know, have to wait for their support worker or their job broker or their probation officer to get them into that system or don't know how to do their CV. I think they're quite fortunate now in that people don't need to know where you went to junior school. They want your attitude and behaviour and be honest about where you come from. And you'll be surprised the amount of sort of older prison leavers and those who have probably done five, six years just because of the speed technology changes.
00:19:07
Speaker
I don't know if I want that app, how do I do it? So I think we can, you know, we help them, we get them true to work, but I think it's accepting that if we want to take people who are on these fringes, that we need to be more open. I do know of an issue where a guy went for housing benefit, and he was told he had to fill out the form on his laptop, and he said, I don't have a laptop, unless you can't fill the form out, are you?
00:19:29
Speaker
And that was it. And it was only because the manager went in and spoke at the top of his voice in that job centre that they all suddenly found a spare laptop. But the manager actually said to me, it was easier filling in an application to get private equity money than it was housing money. So I think good moving companies like Back to Story are working with us, then we can identify if someone's got that issue and find a way around it rather than you can't apply because you haven't got a laptop.
00:19:58
Speaker
I think as well, like you said, the older generations who don't have that, some people who just don't know how to use technology, like the people that have grown up with it really struggle. Oh God, do you want to talk to my daughters? I often think about
00:20:13
Speaker
Where's my PowerPoint gone? Oh my god, they want a new password. I mean, what's it here? I think it's about, as well, them knowing that they'll be joining a company where there's people like them as well. And, you know, we're an industry that employs everyone, you know, and that's the great thing. In Back to the Story, we celebrate, you know, 20, 25, 30 years.
00:20:38
Speaker
people with incredible service and they were probably in the same position when they started and we want those people to know that if you don't have a mobile or you've got a Nokia 3210 and no laptop that we'll find a way for you. If you want to apply
00:20:59
Speaker
And we can find your role somewhere. We'll find a way around it. Unfortunately, we're in a society now that we have to have a level of tech to get people through all of the health and safety and all that kind of stuff. And that will be the same for anywhere. But our commitment is to help those people to get through those barriers.
00:21:19
Speaker
through our partnerships as well from anybody that would need the help. You'll be joining an industry where there's people like you and I think that's a really important thing to say. I think that is really important and often people mis-contrue that when you're doing a recruiting campaign you're looking for the people fresh from college or really young, which is obviously we are, but there's lots of other people from different generations that we're trying to retract as well. I think it's converted as well, you get the older generations aren't you who, you know, life is out of hell.
00:21:48
Speaker
But I thought that Nokia was a great friend. It was my first partner as an area manager. I still got it. They asked me back but I didn't give it to them. But I think firstly then you get the younger generation who come out of university and because of the way life is at the moment have
00:22:07
Speaker
are carrying a lot of secretive baggage that we need to be able to help with. And in some ways it's easier to help the, you know, 55 year old homeless or prison neighbour learn the basics of doing a CV or using a phone or using an app.
Mental Health in Hospitality
00:22:23
Speaker
But it's then looking at that younger age group and saying,
00:22:27
Speaker
you know, sort of in my generation it was you haven't got depression and you're not got anxiety, pull yourself together, you know, you're all right. I think my dad would have, I don't think he could do it under the whisk between someone's got depression. Whereas, you know, I'll be quite open about this and we have got distant family members who have had that. And it's opened my eyes and I think the industry is, I think it'd be probably one of the leading industries who recognises that mental health is there and it needs to give people
00:22:56
Speaker
support and you know accepts that older managers and people need to learn about bipolar and ADHD and things like that and need to encompass it so I think for hospitality we seem to be an industry that's got together and said we know there's all these issues and these blockers but because of our I am mentor of
00:23:20
Speaker
Let's get it going. Let's get these customers served. We remove those blockers quite quickly. Yeah. And we recognize our industry is incredibly stressful on the front line. And that you is a good example. You know, we could take somebody who's on paper is
00:23:40
Speaker
you know, leading a hospitality university and they jump into our business as a, you know, a manager or something. And a year down the line are struggling. So actually, you know, that's another part of my role, working with universities and colleges and school leavers. And they might fly through the recruitment and get into a role that on paper looks, you know, really on their LinkedIn or whatever looks shiny and important.
00:24:09
Speaker
and then really struggle and think that they're not going to be looked after. But I think its commitment to recognising anything that could come up and how we would look after them throughout their career is what we're doing through our new initiatives and with our EDNI strategy. As you said Greg, because we're an industry that probably is
00:24:31
Speaker
so hard to be in, but so rewarding. Remember a long time ago when I used to work in hotels that they sort of say to you, you're going to spend more time at work than doing anything else, you know, especially in hospitality, perhaps if you're, you know, you're doing long shifts or whatever. And so you have to be able to feel comfortable to say that you're not okay or, you know, that you are struggling with something and you have to get along with your team and it's so important that
00:24:58
Speaker
that you're looked after in your role. So it's about people in our roles knowing that we have to put strategies together to look after people if they a year down the line say that they're struggling and we want to keep them because they're an important part of the business. I heard a fantastic story where
00:25:20
Speaker
someone took on someone who had OCD quite severely so they were always late for work because they used to lock their front door 20 times and then they'd go halfway down the road and it was a tap still on and they left the window open and you always sort of sit you start work at nine o'clock or ten o'clock.
00:25:36
Speaker
And they were always late. And then he said to him, you're not late because I always put you on the rotor for half past ten when you think you've got to start a ten. He said, well what we've got to do now is get you some help. And that person then he presented them with an award that they had the best time keeping.
00:25:51
Speaker
Because they always thought they were late, but he'd always factor in the fact they were going to be late. And he said, years ago, Greg, I'd have sacked them. I'd have just got with them until I was late. He said, but they're so bloody good when they're here that I need to, A, make sure they're not stressed when they're here, and B, I need to find out more about OCD, and is there some way to help them? And that person's still with them now.
00:26:13
Speaker
I think that's so important, that educating yourself on how you can make that role more okay for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, isn't that wonderful? What a lovely example of going, we know you love your job and we are
00:26:29
Speaker
we want you as part of the team and let's sit down and have a conversation because we're all people here. We're not just, you know, numbers and we're not just serving people and we're not, you know, it's more important to recognize that I'm, you know, as your manager, I need to go above and beyond perhaps in certain situations to keep that person on.
00:26:51
Speaker
and it works both ways because you retain wonderful employees by a bit of extra support and that person feels like they're not scared to say how they're feeling at work.
Social Mobility & Education Programs
00:27:04
Speaker
That's a lovely story. Thank you. So working with social mobility and education pathway programs is great for businesses to widen their talent pool. In both of your experiences how have you found on the flip side the hiring managers and clients
00:27:19
Speaker
when they have these candidates put forward to them from backgrounds such as Own Your Payment Away and other programs from diverse halls. Ours has been changing perceptions. So everybody said to us at the beginning, we do a thing called fill a flask, where we go out in certain cities just once a year, we either go to the hostels or we give flasks for us leavens. And we do winter warm, but we go and give a blanket once a year. And it wasn't so much to be, well, you know, we do good, it was actually sending you to draw the tears out of who were coming back and saying,
00:27:48
Speaker
I've just happened to someone who's a private equity manager. I've just come back. They don't want to have powder under their nose. They don't want to have a bottle of meth and they haven't got a needle in their arm. They were there because there was a family breaker. Oh my God. You know, and again, we sat on the table and this dude stepped over out and said, my brother is a black shaded family. He said, you wouldn't trust him anywhere. He said, because he just steals everything.
00:28:11
Speaker
He said, so we need to, and then everybody around his table came and said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was homeless. Oh yeah, I slept rough. And then he starts, oh yeah, I took drugs. And I think it is changing that perception that if you come out of prison, you're not.
00:28:26
Speaker
necessarily a sex offender or a terrorist. You actually are in there because somebody went wrong. You didn't. If you left Afghanistan with anxiety, you haven't got PTSD. You're not a psychopath. And if you've been homeless, you're not necessarily a mess-drinking person.
Changing Perceptions of Candidates
00:28:41
Speaker
And I think you can change that perception by the hiring manager.
00:28:45
Speaker
And that's what we say is that they know, so the hiring manager knows where that person's coming from. The elephant in the room is taken out, because they're not sort of thinking, right, I'm going to ask you where you were between 2016 and 2018, Greg. And Greg says, I was in Australia, because that's far better than saying I was in Wandsworth. But it takes it out that it really then the hiring manager can turn around and say, when you was in prison, what did you learn? And I always say to people, if you've got a prisoner, you've got something streetwise,
00:29:13
Speaker
If you've got someone who's been homeless, they've got a desire not to have to go through that food bank again. And if you've got someone who's come out of the military, they've got processes.
00:29:22
Speaker
How do you write that down on the CV? And all those things you've just said are all the things that we are looking for, you know, in abundance and can't get taught in school or college, you know, and those people are, you know, they're looking at careers in a different way. Their hunger for some just earning money to support themselves and somebody giving them chances is very different to, you know, a lot of other people that would just chug through the normal recruitment system.
00:29:52
Speaker
And I think I completely agree and I just think from a business perspective.
00:29:57
Speaker
It's about, I'm really lucky, this is a newly launched initiative for us and everybody that I engage with in the business is really supportive and really keen to get involved. But it's about us also giving them the people in the business support to be able to welcome those people in if they need a bit of extra support or assistance. And knowing that it's not gonna be any different in the end. It's not gonna be extra work to take these people
00:30:27
Speaker
and that, if anything, they're going to make your team even more diverse and wonderful and better at some of the stories that we have from people who have taken candidates from Only Paper and Away or our other charities.
00:30:46
Speaker
they're all just such positive stories. And it's just about getting those stories out further to the business to say, you know, they're all just people. And we are now giving you this platform to take, to look at people that we wouldn't be able to look at. And the word will spread and we'll get some more great stories out of it. And before long, it will just be a normal part of recruitment and it won't be this extra thing anymore. It will be that,
00:31:13
Speaker
We have these pathways to get to these candidates that we didn't before. So Greg, how about homeless people? How do you go about that? Well, again, we work through the charities. I think what's happened in the past is that, and they hate me doing this, you know, you get to do good at a zoo. I'm going to go and get the person out of the doorway. I'll clean them up. I'll get them a zoo. I'll go and take them down to my local cafe and I'll get them a job. Two weeks later, that person's back in the doorway because of their infrastructure. So we never, ever will take anybody
00:31:42
Speaker
who's in adoring we always do it through the charities and then you know for someone like backstory then you know that they've got right to work they've got a passport some form of reputation bank account and there is a support network there and if the charities a small charity then we stop step in and cover that and I think that's the important thing to do is you have to have that that structure
00:32:05
Speaker
because a lot of the people will come out of prison and be given a flat with no furniture. So what do they do? They go back out on to the streets to talk to their mates because that's where they feel comfortable. You know if you're homeless then everybody thinks you're a sleeper but you're homeless means you haven't got your sofa surfing.
00:32:23
Speaker
So we always go through the charity so we know what the backstory of that individual and how we can help. And Charlie, is there other support that they would need that people don't talk about maybe?
00:32:36
Speaker
It's the culture of the business from the top down and understanding and knowing that as part of the business, you're in a world that you're going to be looked after. And I think that's, I know I keep saying it, but that's what is being driven throughout the business now is thanks to Only Pavement Away and the work that they do, it means that when we're getting to employing people,
00:33:00
Speaker
they're ready for work and they've had all of that stuff and they're feeling a little bit more confident and ready to have conversations and go and have interviews and all that kind of stuff but it's putting the work in six months or a year down the line and once that they start to feel confident and they're starting to be able to you know move away from the support in a positive way but no it almost taking the reins over we're then taking the reins over and saying we're going to look after you from now on
00:33:28
Speaker
and anything could be thrown up or the flexibility of something's happened at home and I'm going to be in late today. There's something gone wrong with my living arrangements and the managers knowing that something could be thrown at them but it's just the flexibility and being able to have the support
00:33:50
Speaker
throughout your pipeline, your boss and your manager knowing that I need to step in and help with something or we've got somebody who's on long-term sick or just having
Long-term Candidate Support
00:34:03
Speaker
the support throughout the business and that you're in a culture that you're not frowned upon if something goes wrong.
00:34:12
Speaker
It's no different to any other person, it's no different to any other employee because they've come perhaps come from a program program like O'Neill Paper and Away. It's just about knowing that throughout from the top down the culture is that we would support people regardless of what's going on. I think that I think what Charlie said is really important because
00:34:34
Speaker
When Trill and I started this, everybody said, oh, you didn't get thousands into work. And I was talking to a hotel channel, don't you? Do you remember when we first started? When we first started talking, we all saw, we can get hundreds. I've got a thousand vacancies. I can take them. But it's what Charlie said, is that we've got someone at the moment who
00:34:50
Speaker
came to us from a charity five months ago. Five months ago they were sort of almost a quiver of couldn't have sat in a room as you know they couldn't have come in it was as nice as the three of you are and told they couldn't have come to this building. They probably will our development coach thinks they're probably another two weeks off their first interview.
00:35:08
Speaker
And so the 387 viewpoints at work over the past two years, we've touched another 700 people. Now whether they've come into hospitality or whether they've had the confidence to go and work as a cleaner or work in a construction industry.
00:35:24
Speaker
That adds value to society. But they're not ready straight away. We take them from the charities and the prisons. But there's still a lot of issues for them to go in. And that's why we always say it's quality, not constant. Because it's easier to give back to the story. One person who will stay with you for two years can give you $500 on a Friday before 99 had gone by the Monday. And he's that backstory that we have to record. And then when they get to work, they are just, you know. And most managers don't know if they've got a prison leaker or someone who's homeless anyway.
00:35:53
Speaker
And it's about, they don't want to be seen as any different. They don't want the charity. They don't want, like you said, they don't want to be taken off of the street. They want the opportunity to earn their own living and that paycheck to come through after their first month of working.
00:36:10
Speaker
Very hard, but you know rewarding in a in a rewarding team, and that's that's what we're trying to do None of our members will have like the only paper to weight badge or a little card They don't have that because then they join the new goes never been you guys employ We're just there to make sure they stay be there. You know what's going on in their background So we have to charity relationship managers to custodial and to employ So the employer one will touch base with either the general manager or one of Charlie's team
00:36:39
Speaker
say how's it all going they will touch base with the individual to say is everything okay and then if the individual or the manager says there's an issue then we go to the charity. If the charity can't do a thing about it then we will step in and may help them you know it might be their accommodation might be cash problems you know I would have done hide the fact that we did have someone who sort of a plot just applied for their third fridge freezer so
00:37:03
Speaker
They said they'd be knocking them out down the road pretty quick. So we have to be commercial about it. There are people who are going to try and make use of the system. But on the whole I would say we've had about half a dozen people that we haven't wanted to continue helping because they are unscrupulous. What it does is by helping the members behind the scenes is they don't become this guinea pig or this
00:37:29
Speaker
Obviously we want testimonials on people to talk about it, but only if they're happy. The amount of people you get say, well can I have a picture with so-and-so, can I have a picture with so-and-so? No, and then suddenly they cancel the meeting and you think, oh well we know why, because you couldn't have your picture taken with them. But it's very much giving them that support. But you tend to find in hospitality that the GMs do that.
00:37:48
Speaker
You know, they will ring our relationship managers quite a lot and say, you know, I think Bob or Betsy might have an issue. How do I handle this? You've kind of mentioned lots of stories throughout this whole conversation, but are there any powerful ones, potentially hospitality in particular, that you've had from only a paper and a wife that you'd like to share?
00:38:09
Speaker
I think there's Gerald, you know, Woody have got a job at the Hilton. There's Paul, who has been from actually three times at Ivy Asia, was on the steps of Trafalgar Square. He's quite open. He goes on. He will go on any interview.
00:38:24
Speaker
to say what his story was. There's Julian that could hardly speak English. He was on a park bench for 18 months because he came over to work in the construction industry and he was duped on his wages. We have got a gang enforcer as a pastry chef in a topland in a restaurant.
Diverse & Passionate Teams
00:38:42
Speaker
He's got a fantastic story.
00:38:44
Speaker
You know, you're forcing with the gangs. He's got two children. We helped out with some of the baby clothes when he first started. And he's just done over three years. So it's stories like that. And I think it's also a lady called Marisa who started at the Young's Pub around the continent. Did three months. So she would never have served front of the house. And then her family moved back up north and she wanted to reconnect with them.
00:39:05
Speaker
She said to me that when she went for her entry up north and it wasn't in hospitality, she wasn't asked why. She'd been homeless. She was asked what had she learnt about customer service with Youngs. And that's what it does. It's when people move on that what hospitality does is by giving them their skills and behaviours and that team ethic,
00:39:26
Speaker
But when they go to next door, people aren't in... So what did you learn up in New York? Was it the serpents on you? You weren't that bloody hell. You weren't in that. I've been there. What was he like on a Friday night? Not. Oh, I see you were claiming benefits. Oh, I see you came out of a woman's prison or something like that.
00:39:43
Speaker
any
Lessons for Other Industries
00:39:44
Speaker
of our teams will have such a huge diverse range of backgrounds and problems and great things and bad things. Like Greg said, none of that matters at the end of the day. You're all there doing a great job and feeling proud of wherever you're working. It's not how did you get here or what happened to this and tell me this because you could have a grade A student from a top university on a hospitality course
00:40:11
Speaker
or you could have somebody through this program and they're all working together and it doesn't matter. It's about what you're doing and how passionate you are about working in hospitality and with your team and all of that sort of fades into the background if that's what you're passionate about. So that's what we're trying to do. How can other industries
00:40:32
Speaker
learn from what hospitality is doing when it comes to partnering with charities, social enterprises and educational gateway programs. What advice would you give to them?
00:40:44
Speaker
you know, continuing what we've been saying, but I think hospitality do it so well. You know, I would say that we do it better than anybody else. As long as you can understand that you need to look further than just the people applying online or through your website and the range of people out there, it's not about just finding somebody and giving them, you know, a junior role. We're such an accessible
00:41:13
Speaker
industry and for any other industry to sort of say, well, I couldn't take somebody without any qualifications. I couldn't take somebody that doesn't match up what we need on that job description or CV. Well, that's not true. You could take anybody. There's always an opportunity in every industry to give somebody a chance through a program like this. And I think we are lucky in hospitality that we can give so many people from so many walks of life.
00:41:43
Speaker
that chance and take them right through to the top if that's where they want to go. We can show how well we can do it by success stories like we've talked about before. Other industries have to just get on board and understand that it's about the potential that person can give you and just give them give them 15 minutes on the phone. When there's programs like Only Pavement Away who take them from perhaps
00:42:12
Speaker
feeling like they're nothing through to being able to have a fifteen minute conversation with the manager on the phone and you know that's almost the mountain climb you know done and and then we're having fifteen minutes with a with a candidate on the phone and
00:42:27
Speaker
we could change our lives. And I think people in other industries need to see the benefit of what that can do.
Collective Industry Support
00:42:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think there are people who stand out, so prison leaders, you've got Timbsons, there's a guy called Alistair in the north who does fantastic work with prison leaders. He sort of puts money into building accommodation reform and works with, he does a fantastic job. And I think you've also got some of the supermarkets.
00:42:52
Speaker
But it is hospitality that's an industry. When you look at it, and we set this up, we have to fire, we've got kaitra.com, Hospitality Jobs UK, Leisure, Leisure Jobs, Harry, all of those. If we sort of say, who's going to sponsor that for us? And one does. The other four say, well, we're not coming. They don't say we're not coming. They say, right, OK, we're in there.
00:43:17
Speaker
we've got to make this work together as hospitality. And we recently wrote to Prince William about his initiative of curing homelessness. I went out and asked people to sign, endorse a letter, we said, we've got 150 responses within a week. All saying, yeah, put my name down, put my name down, put my name down. And I think it is, it's just like Charlie says, it's that what other industries can get, you're here, Timson's will do something.
00:43:44
Speaker
but I don't know any other key cutters or people who are doing it. You hear Tesco's doing it, but the supermarket's doing it diversely. But when we do it, we do it as hospitality. And that's where I think we need to get that story out to the public who are saying, you know, when you go in to one of our outlets in hospitality and leisure, you have got a strong chance of being served by someone who a year ago was struggling.
00:44:13
Speaker
And that's another thing we've done. And that's what hospitality can do. You can walk into, exactly as you've said, you can walk into any of our locations, you can walk into any hospitality location and not know that person's story, that person's background.
00:44:28
Speaker
it's not a building you know perhaps in I don't want a bad amount of any other industry said you know you could be in a building full of IT or you know something that and they've taken the top 1% of people from their their categories and they've all got the same
00:44:47
Speaker
you know, they've all come from the same place and they've all got the same story and isn't it wonderful to think that, you know, perhaps you could go into and be exactly served by somebody who was six months ago who had come out of prison or, you know, just wanted somebody to give them a chance. Well, we're coming to the end of this episode. Is there any final thoughts you'd like to add? I think we've got a great opportunity to change the perception, but I think the industry needs to come together to do it. Like I said earlier, you get Charlie on a video, you talk about what hospitality
00:45:14
Speaker
he's doing. We do a big campaign and we're not low skilled. I think there's like those key messages and you know we are as good as the continent and we're not going down the tubes when you read every magazine or you know so many of these clothes in, so many of that clothes in. Yeah we do need to lobby but we need to also I think get to the positive of what we contribute now.
00:45:38
Speaker
rather than what you're going to lose if you don't help us. We need to sort of take the fight to them. And I just think the proof is in the everyday stories. It's not in the big social media campaigns and it's not in the sticking of celebrity on the front of your website or whatever it is. It's about those stories that hearing about that people who have been in a difficult situation have been looked after properly.
00:46:08
Speaker
and having those real world scenarios where somebody has come into a business and has changed their perspective on somebody who's not given them a chance. This has been a really powerful conversation and thank you Greg and Charlie for joining FYI, the Back to Story podcast. Thanks also to our listeners for tuning in. If you'd like to find out more about Oney and Pavement Away, check out their website www.OneyAtPavementAway.co.uk. Thank you.