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S2EP9: BLACK HISTORY MONTH TAKEOVER - Reclaiming Narratives with Ebenezer Sogunro, Sean Campbell, Eljay Berryman, Carol Thomas, Natasha Draper-West & Kicia Bissette-Emanus & Faisa Ahmed
40 Plays5 months ago
In celebration of Black History Month 2024, we celebrate this year's theme Reclaiming Narratives, hosted by Forward—our first cross-brand ERG, dedicated to Fostering Opportunity, Respect, and Working Against Racial Discrimination. This special takeover episode is all about reclaiming and redefining Black narratives in the workplace, highlighting stories, insights, and experiences from remarkable professionals across our company.
Our inspiring panel includes Ebenezer Sogunro, Sean Campbell, Eljay Berryman, Carol Thomas, Natasha Draper-West, hosted by Kicia Bissette-Emanus, and Faisa Ahmed, who each share their journeys of embracing their identities, challenging stereotypes, and breaking new ground in hospitaity and the workplace.
Tune in to this powerful episode and celebrate Black History Month by reclaiming narratives with us!
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Transcript
Introduction to Black History Month: Reclaiming Narratives
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello, this is Forward's takeover to the Back to Story FYI podcast. In honor of Black History Month and this year's theme, Reclaiming Narratives, you shine a brighter light on our stories, experiences, and history.
Panel Introduction and Reclaiming Narratives Discussion
00:00:17
Speaker
We are discussing some important topics with some invaluable insights and stories. We have an amazing panel of guests sharing their journeys and experiences of reclaiming narratives as professionals in business.
00:00:29
Speaker
If you would like to join forward our first cross-brand ERG or would like more information, please find the OnePager and sign up link on the company's SharePoint and learning platforms. Enjoy.
Panelists' Backgrounds and Journeys
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome to this year's 2024 Black History Month event.
00:00:47
Speaker
which is about reclaiming narratives. So before we start with the questions, maybe our panellists would like to introduce themselves. LJ, you're closest to me, so should we start with you? Just a brief intro. Right, so everybody, good morning to you. My name is Livingston Berryman, but everybody calls me LJ.
00:01:06
Speaker
I work in the tech industry, insecurity in the tech industry, and at my job is entitled the Global Program Lead. And basically all I do is lead a team of individuals who do ah a lot in the learning and development field. And I've worked in the learning and development field for a very, very long time. And I'll stop there. Thank you. Goveneza.
00:01:28
Speaker
My name is Ebenezer. I run a business called Kalimanchi. It's all about tasting African food with other cultures and being that bridge for African flavors basically. But yeah, we do a lot of festivals, corporate catering, pop-ups and residencies. Thank you. Good morning everyone, it's a pleasure to be here and to meet so many new faces. My name is Carol Thomas, I'm the University Accommodation Services Manager and we have a partnership with Facts The Story and I'm looking to see if I can see any colleagues from University of the Arts London.
00:02:01
Speaker
There he is. And also I've got other hats as well. I'm also here as the Chair for Living in Black Commission, which was a commission which has put forward to raise the awareness of the experience of young black students living in halls of residences and also studying at universities.
00:02:19
Speaker
And also the other aspect of my role is that I'm also an EDI lead for Cuba, which is a professional body which looks to enhance the student experiences for students also on campus. And that ranges from accommodation, that ranges from catering, that ranges all the way through everything that students need to actually have a good time while they're at university. Thank you. Thank you. Morning.
00:02:42
Speaker
For me, having lived through pre- and post-apartheid South Africa and now living in the UK, forward is very close to my heart. and My journey through Baxter story in the last seven years has been interesting. So today I'm really excited to share my insights through what I've learned and what I've overcome through with the comments. And changing and all narrative, returning all narrative.
00:03:07
Speaker
Good morning, everyone. My name is Natasha Draper-West, and Operations Manager for Portico. I've been with Portico. I always try to calculate it and get it wrong, but I think it's been 18 years, right? Yeah, 18 years. I'm originally from Trinidad and Tobago, and obviously its this initiative is quite dear to me, and I'm really honored to be here today. Thank you. Thank you.
Leadership and Ethnic Background Impact
00:03:29
Speaker
Both you all, so shall we get started. Nervous? You're in good happens. And we'll start as just as we did. So, LJ, our first question for you. Can you share your experiences of rising to leadership positions and how your ethnic background has shaped your journey?
00:03:47
Speaker
Okay. Interesting question. So I am from the Bahamas. I'm the little poor boy who walked barefoot in the village, went to the water pump, came from a home where we didn't have running water in the home or anything like that. And I find myself here in London sitting in a panel. So my story, I i always say my story is a bit of a good luck story, but my rise to leadership as such has been one of people giving me opportunities but me also recognizing my own skill set to get there. I've worked in a number of industries as well so I started off in travel and tourism, working for airlines, moved into aviation proper.
00:04:27
Speaker
and then moved from aviation back into the fashion industry. Ebenezer and I were talking about what I've done. I worked for Nike years ago. That was an opportunity I got from just applying for a temporary role. I moved to Holland with £250 in my pocket and a box of clothes. That's what I did. And four years later, I was coordinating the clothing business for the kids' business for Nike within the EMEA region.
00:04:51
Speaker
And that all came through hard work. All right. So nothing was an opportunity. The opportunity was getting in, but the hard work was proving who I was. Do you want me to continue or are are you happy with that?
00:05:04
Speaker
Why not? We have any. Joking aside, yes so i did that I worked for Nike and then moved on to British Airways and I worked my way up through British Airways as well. I did a lot of learning and development in British Airways whilst working as cabin crew and I worked on a number of big projects for them introducing new aircraft in like the A380, you know the double decker plane.
00:05:25
Speaker
went to France, learned all about it then went and wrote all the training for the pilots and all the cabin crew and then he did the same thing for their latest aircraft in the fleet and then I left and then I moved to London City Airport working in a management role there in compliance and now I am working for a company called Milestone but I'm based solely at META in the role of a global program lead and that is developing team members that I've met along the way to and mentoring them to be good leaders for themselves but also becoming a good leader for the team that I manage and I'll stop there. You're next. yeah What inspired you to pursue a career as a chef and how do you think your cultural background shaped that decision?
Challenges in Introducing African Cuisine
00:06:10
Speaker
my careers And as a chef probably started off just cooking. Growing up, I'm the eldest sibling of five. So I had to take on the task of learning how to cook for my grandparents and my mom, and then show my siblings how to cook. So I've always been cooking from when I was like seven or eight years old. But as I left college, didn't want to go to a university because I wasn't too sure what to do. And I thought, let me just study professional catering.
00:06:38
Speaker
just so that if I ended up anywhere in the world I'll have a job doing something in the kitchen. So I took that role on and worked through mentorship or meeting people and just observing how the world works. ah started What started me feeling me was just realizing the gap in the market.
00:06:54
Speaker
where African and Korean food wasn't represented well enough, just going to different restaurants. I was customer service, seeing the views, presentation, to taste. I knew that there was something that needed to be done and to take inspiration from ah but how other cultures have been able to integrate and be able to serve their cultural views to other culture, to the Western culture. I saw a big gap in the market, basically.
00:07:21
Speaker
And that's what that's what got me into catering or being a chef. I worked for different um restaurants and different cuisine types and I loved the way skills and yeah the skills and the way the operations was done from like ah One of the ones that comes to mind is working for Bower London. And my attention to details of how simple the food was, how tasty it was, etc. is what kind of like I was kind of learning along the way. So work for different restaurants, work for street free own vendors and corporate catering businesses as well. And then from there I
00:08:02
Speaker
kind of worked my way up as from a chef to a sea chef to a head chef and yeah that's what then gave me dinner enough fuel to start my own business Kalimanchi but in terms of what inspired me to be a chef it was just more seeing the gap in the market really.
00:08:19
Speaker
Carol, we're going to come on to you. I've actually got some stats in this question.
Black Students in Higher Education
00:08:24
Speaker
We did our research. From research, between 2006 and 2020, black pupils had the biggest higher education entry rate increase of all ethnic groups. It was up 21% to 47.5%. Why do you think this was? What factors do you think attributed to this rise?
00:08:48
Speaker
people are smart? I think that's a really, really good question. And I think it that is a really good question that helps to change the narrative. Let's put it out there. Students are going to university, students are being educated and a big segment of that is black students and they want to progress. And I think it's a really, really important that we need to acknowledge because what that also means is that they're going to have more money in their pocket.
00:09:13
Speaker
And when they've got more money in their pocket, they want to spend it. So we need to wake up, shape up and acknowledge that because they're going to want to spend their money. And one of the things that I know that I do, I'm really conscious as to what I do with my money. So I'm interested to know where you, ah which festivals you go to because I'm going to seek you out and I'm going to buy my food from you.
00:09:34
Speaker
That's what I do. My money is precious, I work hard for it and I think it's a really important stat so thank you for that. In terms of what that actually means also, students are customers, they're paying to study at universities. When they go to university they have expectations of a good service and if you're establishment is not given a good service, they'll go somewhere else. I think it's really important around that. And I think in terms of the fact that they're paying customers is recognizing that as well. I think it also means that when students come, they want to have a good experience. If they come um site on onto campuses, if they're not getting what they want, they'll go somewhere else. They go to another outlet
00:10:18
Speaker
off-site, off-campus, so it's thinking about that as well. And also the experience um of students when they go to universities, when they go to college open days, they're also looking, what have they got to offer me as a black student? What's going on? So I remember myself but just a few years ago when I was going to university,
00:10:40
Speaker
I went to different college open days and after deciding what course I wanted to study, I then started to look what it was like, how I can imagine and myself being at university, moving from Bristol, coming to London for the first time, and I wanted to feel, I wanted to belong, so I chose a university which had black people.
00:11:01
Speaker
That's the reality. It might be completely different for students coming up. And I'd be really interested to hear from some of the young people here what what their decision making was when they actually chose to go to university. But for me,
Role Models in Black Education
00:11:14
Speaker
because there weren't that many students who were going to university from Bristol, I wanted to be somewhere where I felt welcomed.
00:11:21
Speaker
and how to feel comfortable. And then the other aspect of that is when they're living in halls of residences, what does that actually look like? You know, people are leaving their homes, going to university, being in a situation where they might be the only person who's black, who might have a different religion, and and what does that feel like for them as well. So the things with regards to living in black at university, which I'll talk about later if you don't mind, ah those are some of the things that we, which we have touched on. We have to see Black students, black people, are not one dimensional. We have lots of different factors about us. Look at us all here. We all look different. We're all wearing different clothes. We've all got different hairstyles. We're not just one type. And I think it's really important when you think about your customers, it's not one size fits all.
00:12:11
Speaker
OK, thank you. Thank you, Carol. I just want to touch upon, because I know the question was about what factors attributed to it. Do you think it is that students are seeing other students that they look like them at universities? And then I guess a point of it is also, and I think LJ touched upon it, when you said that you've got to where you are because of hard work, because I feel like that's also something that's quite common amongst black families. It's that drive. it's We've all been told by our parents that you have to work twice as hard. So do you think it's a mixture of baby both, you know seeing other people like us in positions and thinking, I can do that. I can go to university. There's people that that look like me that are there. But then there's always that if you want to do well, actually, you're going to have to work twice as hard anyway. so
00:12:58
Speaker
Exactly. I think there is is definitely both. I think that we are driven and we want to show that we want to do well. Well, think about my parents who made the trip from Jamaica to come here. I am eternally grateful that they gave me the opportunity. So I want to make the most of it. Some people might say, oh, why would you even bother? But I know that my parents made big sacrifices for me. And I know that a lot of other people sitting here couldn't actually resonate with that.
00:13:27
Speaker
There is also the thing about we want to do well and there's this also thing about seeing role models as well, representations and and I hope that this black panel might inspire some other people, not just black students or black people to go into business, but inspire everyone in here to actually think differently.
Diversity in Culinary Roles
00:13:47
Speaker
fortunate You mentioned how long you've been with Baxter Story and working as the chef, but what's the change you would like to see in the hospitality industry? And can you share specific ways that you have advocated for change and successes and challenges? What's the change you would like to see in the industry? From a chef perspective.
00:14:09
Speaker
I find it's really difficult from coming from a minority or Indian background because the growth is very difficult. You have to fight twice as hard. To get to where you need to be, people that work with me always always ask me, why am I working so hard? It's because I have twice as hard just so I can prove what I can do. you know There's one stamp I'll put out there. Back to the story, I'm the only semi-chef of color.
00:14:32
Speaker
And that's just it with you. know So clearly there must be something off. And then maybe is that upskilling we're not doing in our business? Do we need to dig deeper? Are we making our business more exciting to come to? So for me, I'll use my social media, what I do.
00:14:50
Speaker
to show the world out there that actually there is time to grow. And there's some amazing chefs of Colin Albert's list. They just stay at the level and then that's it. The head chef, they don't grow any further. Over time I've tried to get there, but I'm not sure with forward right now. I think we're going to get there. I'm positive. And I started, and we started all of this two years ago.
00:15:12
Speaker
ah in dive-in and then when Lindsay came on, I was a bit s skeptical. like Like I think probably most of you are skeptical to find what's actually going on there. Is this just a tickpo tick box exercise? It isn't. I can guarantee it isn't a tick box exercise. Forward is is moving is moving forward and there's some changes just coming. From my perspective as a chef and the only chef in forward, does it's exciting. So it'll be a journey. Thank you. Natasha.
00:15:41
Speaker
What unique challenges have you faced and what personal strengths helped you overcome them?
Support Systems in New Environments
00:15:49
Speaker
Lucky. I guess we're challenges aren't really unique because I'm pretty sure a lot of people would relate. So I, as I said, I'm from Trinidad and to be again, I left Trinidad when I was 20. I tell you how old I am now.
00:16:03
Speaker
And so I left Trinidad on my own to go to Bermuda to work in the hotel industry. I was in Bermuda for two years. So yeah, it was just sort of, I think, coming from a black family, obviously a Caribbean family. The family is very important and it's just being, having to face life's challenges without having key people in person around you.
00:16:25
Speaker
which I struggled with it a little bit. There were a few families out in Bermuda who adopted me. So I had, you know, stepmommy and stepdaddy sort of stepping in every now and again. And then obviously I came to this country with, he was my husband then, he was my boyfriend.
00:16:40
Speaker
ah So we came to explore and to look and, you know, obviously we had each other, but again, having that network around you was was very challenging. What helped me overcome it obviously is, well, not not obviously, but what helped me overcome it was my feet. You know, just always having God to fall back on and always having a higher being that I know was looking out for me. I was on a training course the other day, run by our lovely Dr. Bevans.
00:17:09
Speaker
And we were asked to look at a clip. It was, you know, sort of talking about beliefs and dreams and that sort of thing. And one of the things that resonated then with me was that it spoke a lot about faith. And I think that's the one thing that most Black people growing up they have that background of faith. Not everybody, but I would say the majority. And I think it's always important to keep God present and to have something to you know to fall back on in hard times or challenging times as this.
00:17:47
Speaker
and king natasha We've touched a little bit on family that you all have in various different ways. So my question to you, LJ, is how has your experience as a black person working in the UK differed to that of your parents?
Intergenerational Opportunities and Adaptability
00:18:00
Speaker
six kids, so we're close in his family size, moving his kids all the way from ah a fun family grouping to where she had no one. Absolutely no one, no support, except from that of my stepdad. in terms of but In terms of opportunity, I think that is the word that we speak about Carol. You mentioned that word in the conversation. As a young man growing up in the UK,
00:18:22
Speaker
I've been afforded a lot of opportunities that's why my parents decided to come here and they promised us it would be two years and now it's 40 something years later yeah and they were like oh we'll just wait till you finish we'll wait do two years we'll wait till you finish school we'll wait till you go to university well I didn't do university I refused I was Friday with my parents but the one thing I said to them was No matter what I achieve in my life, I would always strive to achieve more than the people that I know at school who went to university. That was my argument with my dad at the time. Speaking with my mum, she's very much of the mindset that for her and her career and what she's chosen to do,
00:19:00
Speaker
fear has been a big factor in the background for change. And so she's taken the opportunity to stick with what she knows in healthcare care and not deviate from that. Whereas for myself, my brothers and my sisters, we've been a bit more brave and our pathway has been, if it's not working for you, change. And I think that opportunity is what we all have. Nowadays, if we really want to address it, if something isn't working for you, change it. You be the change because nobody else is going to do it for
Cultural Integration in Dining
00:19:30
Speaker
you.
00:19:30
Speaker
Ebenezer, how would you implement cultural food to a more refined restaurant or food establishment? and And how difficult or easy have you found that? And my thing was, I told my staff members and the chefs that work with me, peanut butter and jam started from somewhere, someone invented it. Sunday roast, somebody invented it. So if you're going to create anything or you're going to work with anything,
00:19:59
Speaker
try to be the the the change, try to be the next, invent the next thing that people crave, that someone will trip to our home and say, oh, I'm craving a nice Indian, or craving a Chinese um special fried rice. And when you start the business, one of the things that I'm quite proud of that we've kept consistent, terms of quality wise, and been able to feed a lot of people with it is jello fries and peas. Like, yeah, it's, it's Think about the logistics of it, it's quite simple, but the the idea is when you eat in a meal, it can stir up conversations, it can it can spark ideas or even question it to where did this come from and represent multiple cultures ah at the same time. But if I was going forward and while always implementing that diversity and culture and culture into food, it's like, I don't think you need to change the world completely. We'll just add a few tweets and and
00:20:53
Speaker
and
00:20:56
Speaker
I think it's just more thinking about, do um yeah yeah, that's what kind of sparked me to kind of reach out to certain companies about doing collaborations and fusions. I remember when we did our first collaborative residency in a pub and I was thinking what regular pub go is going to deal with? a And it was challenging in the first week, but afterwards, we did the same standard roast, but with a different type of chicken. We did something that people used to eat, like nibbles, something that we we do you regularly now. We have nachos, or something called pianchos, which is having plant ink with the same guacamole sauce and cheese sauce and stuff.
00:21:36
Speaker
So it's things like, because before, a lot of people would always speak to me like, oh, nobody wants to try African food and blah, blah, et cetera. Sometimes it it's more than just a free taste, but it's how people eat and just thinking more about how it will be received. But yeah, so that's that's the little bit so in terms of when I'm crazy in the middle or doing the residency and doing the collaborations where I think of how people would be able to ask a bit more questions or even think more about what they're just ah get frustrated when some people are just so based.
00:22:05
Speaker
People just eat chips and ketchup, but I don't... One of my stickinesses is like, but... It's on Sundays, but yeah, that's how I'll do it. Thank you. Basically what I've taken from that is you keep the dishes the same, but you just add spice. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy.
Creating Inclusive Spaces
00:22:23
Speaker
Carol, Spicy. Spicy. one Spicy. of your roles as Spicy. commissioned chair for the Living Black Spicy. University, Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. Spicy. where you provide the right home environment for students to enable them to achieve their Sp goals. What are some learnings from that work you feel could be applied to help businesses create more inclusive workplaces for black and minority ethnic colleagues? So what are some takeaways that we could take?
00:22:48
Speaker
Okay, Live in Black at University, I've just come back from the conference which took place last week and i'm fit this is the programme in terms of what was actually available for staff across the sector. It was really interesting because at this conference we found that it was very inclusive in terms of the delegates And if you want to know more about Live in Black at university, you could just do a search and you can see the the actual survey, which also contains the recommendations. And also there's a checklist if you want to conduct a survey in terms of surveying your customers. There's some really good interesting questions in there. And also you can reach out to me as well. But in terms of Live in Black at university, it is a really important piece of work that was conducted by Unite students, which is a private sector.
00:23:36
Speaker
student accommodation provider and we have a partnership with them and a lot of universities across the UK has partnerships with them and it's quite interesting that it took a private provider to actually hire an education institution and it's actually starting to resonate so I do feel that partnerships are really really important. In terms of some of our the findings it wasn't it's not nice reading in terms of realising that students are not having a brilliant time at university. Some are in the main, yes, but deep down, there's some things that came out. And one of the things that came out for students was that they didn't have that sense of belonging. They felt as if they were there, but they're kind of like seen as the others. And that was something that really resonated with me many, many years ago, which is why I chose the university I went to, that that is still a thing a few you years later.
00:24:35
Speaker
So that's one the one of the key things that came out from that survey and that was almost like the driver in terms of enabled them to actually put together the recommendations. So some of the things that they said what we need to do, which I would also recommend for your sector, is to listen to your customers, listen to your ah the people who are actually you're interacting with. So I know that we know that the customer is king and I do I do think that we do have to kind of like listen to them and hear what they have to say. So that's one thing that's really important. So it's not just listening to your customer, but it's also applying action. So it's one thing to do a survey. You've got all that information, but what do you actually do with it? What does it actually mean? It's really good to dig deep into your survey and the results and then create actions from that.
00:25:24
Speaker
Also put to your customers so we realise that we need to put our students at the front and in the centre and that's a terminology that you're hearing quite a lot about which is across different sectors so putting your customers at the front and in the centre hearing what they have to say and listening to them.
00:25:42
Speaker
The other thing that we found was policies and processes. We felt that we needed to have policies and processes up front, ready available so that students could actually understand what they're actually going to be getting into as it were. So they understand that they can, if there's an issue, if they wanted to know something more clearer, they can just find that on the website and understand the processes and also training.
00:26:07
Speaker
There's also training that we need to have a look at. What can you actually do to actually enlighten, or if you like, race relations training. Not sure of racialization if that's the right word, but race training. That is really important. And also being a host. Now, if you're going to do all this research, do all this survey, you're going to attract more people to your company, what is it like as a black person coming to your company?
00:26:34
Speaker
How does that feel to be a black person? I've been to many meetings where I am the only black person around the table. That is not easy. So I have to do a lot a little mental check, say, wow, OK, Carol, it's OK. You've got something to say. You belong here. Right. Move forward. That's something that I have to go through quite a lot. So what does that feel like?
00:26:56
Speaker
for your customers or students who's coming to your organisation, how do you actually welcome them and make them feel as if you want them to stay as well? And then the other thing is about realising that not one size fits everyone. We're all different. We're all made up in different ways. And then also allies. So what do I mean by allies? I mean, in terms of make an effort to actually engage with your colleagues who might be different to you.
00:27:26
Speaker
make an effort to actually kind of like read something we just had a fantastic lot of history introduction which is great do some more digging also make an effort to actually kind of like experience something different try different food as as you mentioned not just chips and tomato sauce but just make an effort to do something different and also i think when we have this allyship it's about believing someone who might come to you and say, look, I feel that this is just happening. It just doesn't feel right. Don't kind of like try and kind of like say, are you sure? Are you sure? Believe them. And then this kind of like supporting them and it's kind of like finding the way how you can move forward together.
00:28:10
Speaker
So I think there's lots of things that we could do across the sector and in collaboration but as I said if you want more information about the Live in Black survey please have a look please have a look at there's some really really good tidbits in there. So we've talked a little bit about our challenges so Sean my question for you is what kind of support systems or networks have helped you navigate some of those challenges you face as a chef of colour in particular and how can these be expanded?
Workplace Support for Minorities
00:28:38
Speaker
I think having a team around you understands where you're coming from. I don't live in London. I live in the countryside, so it's a lot more challenging. Trying to find people to understand you. A good boss, a good team, but and and someone you can have an open conversation.
00:28:56
Speaker
Open conversation only started a couple of years ago through my experiences in the business. An example I have is I spoke to a colleague which was very close to me. I said something about the riots. It just happened recently. And he took it for granted that everything's okay. Where I live, I couldn't go out after 9 o'clock. The reason I said is don't take for granted the people that work next to you. You should know them. It doesn't mean they're going through something. They're going through something that's quite deep and quite difficult. They might put on a facade in front of you.
00:29:25
Speaker
So having a support system, of having an alliance, an open conversation, uncomfortable open conversation works. And the more you have it, the more your colleagues will appreciate you and understand you. And I think it's just a learning. It's a learning staff. It's teaching our teaching our friends, not inside, but outside of work as well at the same time.
00:29:45
Speaker
Great, thank you. And just to add to Shaw's point there, I think we know the conversations about race are difficult, right? Ethnicity, culture. I think you made a great point in saying that it's it's easy to just ask and always wonder and avoid kind of, is that elephant in the room when you walk in and you're the only black person? and people just don't want to acknowledge it so we're just going to say anything but I have this conversation with my friends all the time and I think a lot of the times it's better to ask the questions because it's all about intent and I think if the intent is pure and it's good and you're asking because you are interested and you want to know something they're going to know that so instead of thinking I'm not going to ask because I don't want to offend because you're assuming we're going to be offended
00:30:26
Speaker
But sometimes we want to be asked. So yeah, I would say just bite the bully, ask the question. Because if it's coming from a good place, they're going to know. Adding to that, just because it's my two pence work. When you give that person freedom to educate and to advocate for themselves when you ask the question, a lot of the time, as Faisal said, we don't get that offended unless something is really offensive. Or this is how something works. Or this is how you give us the autonomy to do that. And I think that should kind of be at the forefront a lot of the time. Natasha, how can leaders improve their understanding of cultural differences and create an environment that respects and celebrates those
Cultural Understanding and Reverse Mentoring
00:31:11
Speaker
differences? We've got a lot of leaders in the audience here today from across all of the brands. So I think it's time we tell them.
00:31:19
Speaker
Well, I mean, I was really interested in what Sean just said in terms of not being afraid to talk and not being afraid to share. And I think Carl, you suggested that as well. So recently, a few months ago, I was part of a reverse mentoring initiative that they the company did. And for those of you who don't know what reverse mentoring is, it's where the mentor men ah you know is the person who guides and coaches someone who is in a higher position than them. So I reverse mentored a director within our company. And one of the things he wanted to know was around equality, diversity and inclusion and how he can better to understand his workforce who will probably fill in a minority sector.
00:32:10
Speaker
And I think that was really very powerful. It was very informative for me as well. And we had probably about eight weeks where we worked together. So we met every week. I gave him a little bit of homework. So, you know, who is Mia Markey? She is the female prime minister of Barbados and a very powerful and a very influential person in the world.
00:32:35
Speaker
not not just in the Caribbean region. And we had a lot of very interesting discussions around people of minority in his in his team, what they may be going through at times, how they may be thinking about certain things, how their actions may have been influenced by their upbringing and that sort of thing.
00:32:57
Speaker
You know, and it it wasn't just for us sitting down every week talking, so we also, I shared with him a book from a Caribbean author, it's called Wine of Astonishment, and the book was written around, it was written in Trinidad, but it was written around a time where the American army, or and there was American bases in Trinidad, and one of the sectors, the Baptist movement, they weren't allowed to practice or preach openly. So they had to hide. So they had to go to the forest, go to the bushes and hide to practice their faith. So we read that together and every week they'll come together and he'd be like, okay, so this chapter, you know, we'll talk about the struggle at the time. We will talk about different things that were happening at that time in Trinidad. And we finished, I call it a partnership because it was really interesting because his daughter was one year older than my son.
00:33:54
Speaker
So we had a lot to talk about when it came to a black child going to secondary school and a white child going to secondary school. Or if his daughter was going out for a night out or my son was going out for a night out, what were the conversations? And they were two totally different conversations. So, you know, my son, it would be, you know, don't go into the shop with your hoodie on, take your cap off, take your hands out of your pocket. If the police come in, they're going to question you first.
00:34:18
Speaker
before they go to anybody else. So things like that. um But we finished on the subject of food and you try and interest in food. We finished as a Caribbean restaurant. We had our last session there and I introduced them to curry goat and roti. And, you know, and I think that's important to have him a similar initiative if we can do it. Just to get more of the senior, yeah senior leaders understanding Thank you. Before we do some more questions, I just want to throw it open to the audience, audience even, in case you had any, based on some of the toffee of us or so. Do you have any questions? If so, just remember to pop your mics on. Cool, go for it. Pop your mic on. Thank you. Sorry, what was the name of that book? Oh, the book is called Wine of the Stonish, by the Lovelies.
00:35:13
Speaker
Oh, get the thief. He contains a second question. Caddy Munchie. What does Caddy Munchie mean? Yeah, Caddy was just, myself and my siblings were just playing around with words and looking at cassava, and Caddy just came. So you just saw like Caddy meaning good and Munchie is just more of a fun way of eating. But yeah, we don't want to come over like a Nigerian name and then wasn't going to say that as a Nigerian business. oil Garnier names, so one is something kind of like flows out the tongue and is universal. we Just festivals, or is there somewhere we can find? At the moment, just festivals, and we do um a lot more corporate occasional free fuel. That's where I'm just concentrating at the moment. But we do the events here and there. So for example, this Sunday, we're going to be at a party here. During the year, a regular one we do is like wireless. Anyways, according to information on our website or it's... It's a shameless pun.
00:36:06
Speaker
can Can I ask a question? yeah yeah so okay yeah the i can i just if you don't mind Can I just have a show of hands of how many managers are in in the house? in the Amazing. It's great. And directors, clipvin moreton people if lots of important No, and it's really, it's great. I just want to say that I really do think that this is really important. And I think that the fact that you're here today, listening to the experiences, I think is fantastic. But I just wanted to get a show of hands. That's great. Thank you.
Allyship and Supportive Work Environments
00:36:41
Speaker
Question them for you, LJ.
00:36:43
Speaker
What would you like to see more of in terms of allyship from your peers and colleagues? and I think the answer to that would be I want to see more listening and support. It's one thing to lead and be the voice and be that person that everybody looks at for direction, but there's another thing to listen to the voices that are, I hate using this expression, but further down the tree than you, and also to support them in their journey.
00:37:13
Speaker
We're all busy people, we all have our own agendas, but I think nobody gets anywhere without having support. You must listen to the people that you work with, the people that are around you, the people that may one day be influencing you as well, and also never ever forget.
00:37:30
Speaker
support them as best as you can. Make that time for those individuals who A, ask you for support, but B, you recognize might need support as well. And I think sometimes asking is more difficult than for us to recognize. So.
00:37:48
Speaker
Ebenezer, do you believe that mentorship for minority chefs is sufficient in the culinary world? How can the industry improve support for aspiring chefs from underrepresented backgrounds? It is mentorship sufficient enough commonly. I think I'll give the flowers to the fact that we're in London. A lot of places I work down, a lot of people are seeing, they're doing, they have gone out of the way or for my experience, gone out of the way to create these Could it be better? Yeah, a lot of people might have a smiley face on, but they carry a lot of weight. And from my experience, a lot of dreams or Africans take on the weight of the family or having to support or the pressure of all you're in this country, you just make the most of it in the floor.
00:38:34
Speaker
and I think now, which is good now, that mental health is becoming more of a topic, especially in the Black minority than other cultures, because it's not an easy thing to carry upon in this rewearing, which is hospitality. One of the things I was actually speaking to Elgin about is mentorship that looks more like showing how things work and the way I can almost put that in so um sometimes i when I employ some staff is all well and good given instructions since and micromanaging but then when you're showing up a case of okay cool so then we are doing 10 cucumbers because it's south of 450 people and then they mess up on one cucumber and it's like okay that's not feeling 650 people no more that's doing 40 people what more the
00:39:28
Speaker
financial education, the why you price, that twice unique selling points, price points, just more a case where you're not just stuck in on focusing on your thing, but seeing how the whole business um among functions. And I say that because even when I was working at a lot of restaurants and and so on, that's something I was always interested in and excited me in terms of Yeah, I think it's more of a case where like some of the frustration that I had was there's how many millions of people in the UK and you're just stuck in one place serving 100 people. and There's so much opportunities out there and a case where you can expand and solve more problems, etc. But I think the education for minorities in a kitchen specifically could go beyond just their job role and that's how you can see if people have more abilities than they state
00:40:20
Speaker
you kind of resume in the beginning. That's what's been able to, and it's surprising sometimes, and some people that you work with, what they can do is some of the most unlikely staff members that I've worked with, that have shown themselves or proven themselves, handle more in terms of even logistics, even handling the em emails, and yeah, and and so much more. But if I was meant have trust issues or on someone and just keep them in a box. I would never explore that. So I think the question I'm sure is just more a case where it would be nice for mentorship can kind of give people, in the eyes a bit more, I would just say to, you know. So basically upskilling.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think we try and do that. Certainly, I know as I work in front of house, but they're not just receptionists. We have apprenticeships. We try and do leadership programs. So yeah, you're right. They're not just working in the kitchen or cutting up cucumber.
00:41:25
Speaker
Exactly, and I think you'd be surprised with how that is perceived with some young people as well. I'm not gonna lie to some young ah men that I grew up in South East London, but some and guys I work with are black. They look aggressive. They look like they'll slap you up. We're changing that era too.
00:41:45
Speaker
Here, too, I naturally didn't know what it was. For example, when we were running the restaurant at Africa Center, there was one guy that I called him up the day before because we had a last-minute book. And I was like, yo, I need you to help me in this. Can you do this? And the next day, he was so grateful because he's never had someone entrusting responsibilities like that. So it's a case where the most things you give to certain people can encourage them and encouraged them That lends itself to it, it's got to be seen and you've got to give people the opportunity to thrive as well. If they're never given that opportunity or given that chance, they can't prove anything different. Yeah, I think that lends itself really well to that. Thank you. Carol, as a leader, what bearers do you think what barriers do you think you personally faced in your career and how can we dismantle those barriers for others, future generations?
Overcoming Career Barriers
00:42:44
Speaker
Okay. It's a, it's a tricky question and it's kind of, it's quite a personal question. So bear with me. So I face barriers all the way through my life as a professional and you know, it's, it's quite challenging because you need, you you need to have inner strength. I relied heavily on my family as well, but I needed to have inner strength. So you kind of build up this resilience.
00:43:09
Speaker
And I think that the resilience that and the experience that I had as a child growing up in Bristol. So I went to a primary school where there was only one other black family in the school, the primary school as a result, as we were really, really good friends. But we also had the wider network of the church. So that's where I got my kind of like support and resilience from that.
00:43:34
Speaker
So when I started to enter the world of work and knew I wanted to go into into management, it wasn't because someone said to me, oh, car yeah, I think you make a really good manager. You know, I think you should go on this program. I had to do it all for myself. I had to dig within myself and say to myself, what do I want to do and get on that path and also learn from that? So I would say to any person here,
00:44:00
Speaker
If you want to do something, don't wait for somebody else to come and say to you, you can do that. I think you need to look within yourself. Do it yourself. Find your network. That's the other thing I would say to my peers. If you are looking for support, look to your organisation, ask for the support, but also look outside your organisation. There's lots of networks and also do kinds of work that might also be able to give you the added skill set that you want.
00:44:30
Speaker
So for example, I joined the local school governing board because I want to have that board experience. I couldn't get that in my day-to-day work and also I needed to have some more confidence about feeling comfortable at the table when I went to meetings with senior managers and being the only black woman. I needed to have something else outside of work that was giving me the opportunity to practice that The other thing I would say is do not let the glass ceiling stop us from going forward. If you want to do something, set your mind on it and do it. The other thing is a program, a pathway. I think as organisations, I think we have a duty to actually find a way to support the people that's coming into your organisation. We have a duty to support students.
00:45:18
Speaker
and we have a duty to support colleagues, we have a duty to support people who are actually paying to actually come and work for us. They're giving you their time, their mind, their body, their thinking and their receiving wages in return but obviously they need more than that. They want to feel support and they want to feel as if they've been nurtured and that they belong. So I think it's really important to send strong messages that you actually value them and that you want to support them and that when they come to you with an idea or they want to do something different. It doesn't have a chat and say yeah and let's have a look at this but don't kind of like place any salience or anything negative that they can't do it. Find something within what they're saying to encourage them. The other thing I would say is
00:46:06
Speaker
As leaders, we have responsibilities. We have a responsibility to listen. It was interesting to see how many managers are here, but I didn't ask on the other hand who else is here. So I'm not sure what the other makeup is. I imagine it's lots of front of house, chef, support staff, admin staff. And it's nice to have us all here together, but try and find a way to learn from each other and managers, talk to your staff for not managers. And then also in terms of recruitment,
00:46:36
Speaker
If we're finding that we're getting the same people all the time, cast a wider net. Try a different recruitment agent so we don't have to do the same thing all the time. If you do the same thing, you get the same results. Cast a wider net. Try a different way of recruiting. him One of my colleagues, she works in putting on events for students.
00:46:57
Speaker
So we wanted to get a range of students to apply for different roles within putting it on events. So because it's an arts university we went down the usual routine sending your CV via your process specification and we got information back and we just felt that we weren't getting the right type of person to be involved in events. So what we did we said send us a video of what you do, why you want to do it. We got it all cleared off by Human Resources, by the way, in case you're wondering. we sent out We asked them to send us a video and explain why they wanted the role. And from that, the calibre and the interest changed completely because we were thinking about it as an arts university and we want to we want to ah attract the creative people. So ah the reason why I say that, think about what it is you want to achieve at the end.
00:47:49
Speaker
You don't have to do exactly the same thing all the time. Try something different. And in terms of casting a wider net, by doing that, you'll get a different group of people. And at the same time, if you do get different people, you need to make sure you're there to support them. You need to be a good host so you can welcome them into your organization and make them feel as though they belong.
00:48:13
Speaker
OK, and Sean, if you could change one stereotype people have about chefs, what would it be?
Stereotypes in the Culinary Industry
00:48:21
Speaker
No, oh I'm not going to come to your house to cook. My time refreshes. I think it's ah it's more the fact that it's not the outside world. The chef environment is a very closed circle. So I think it's more chefs chef to chef changing the the way they speak to each other and removing the word or using the word bantas and unconscious minds. It's really important.
00:48:42
Speaker
You know, the these small changes are that chefs, with chefs, need to change. We're not going to get people to grow. relu ah The industry, for me, has a long way to go, from a chef perspective, because it's a a lot of people don't see ah don't see what's happening inside, just from applying for jobs, simple applying for jobs. If you saw my serie on there, you'd probably think it's something else. But when I turn up for an interview, the expression on somebody's face is completely different.
00:49:11
Speaker
So we need to change that knowledge of people's names. A name doesn't matter. It's the person we're looking for. The current doesn't matter. There's race, nationality. None of that matters. So from a chef's perspective, that needs to change. Dasha, how important are employee resource groups in companies?
Role of Employee Resource Groups
00:49:30
Speaker
OK, so I think they're very, very important and I think they're actually a key resource to health. One of the things that I feel is that we need to ensure that each team member within the company and within each sector has a voice.
00:49:48
Speaker
Not just a voice to be heard, but a voice to share as well and share experiences. And I think what we're doing as a company, having forums like this is vitally important and has help in a lot as well. So yes, I think it's vital to have and resource groups within a company. And a closing question now, this is open to
Reclaiming Narratives and Conclusion
00:50:08
Speaker
you all. As this year's theme is about reclaiming narratives, what is one narrative each of you would like to reclaim?
00:50:18
Speaker
so any of you can take it. OK, I'll go first. I think, well, I spoke to my sister about this last night, and she said, well, you have a double one because you're from the Caribbean and you know you're black. I think, yes, the Caribbean is is great to go for holidays and have fun. We we are fun people. But I think for me, we came and reke in the narrative is about understanding that there are different regions within the world that we call third world that have quite a lot to offer in terms of leadership, in terms of innovation.
00:50:49
Speaker
in terms of, you know, educational resources as well. And I think that's important as well to change that narrative. So yes, come and join Carnival and have some fun, but you can also send your kids to university. You can also come and learn about natural gas and oil and all these things that help the world grow and make money as well. Thank you, Natasha. I have a computer's not spicy. Is it? I think that's something that... It's just blabbers. But it's deep bruising. It's just an assumption. And when I was with that, it was good to change that. Some people seem to see it as an African-American. It's just like, yeah, it's spicy, but it's not really. Yeah, even to even speak about to get back, sorry, regarding the question I was going to ask before, I think one thing about mentorship as well, I think it was just more answering specifically, shift.
00:51:46
Speaker
managers to chefs, but also business to business. I think working with fuel quite a lot, it's enabled my business to grow quite a bit, quite a lot, and there's just more exposure and opportunities. I think it's just stretching it out to other businesses as well. I think that's sort of the owner of Benig.
00:52:02
Speaker
and I was having the conversations with him but those interactions I think are quite key because a lot of black-wing businesses kind of stay stagnant where people aren't recruiting the support needed to help a business actually grow but when more opportunities come and more resources and you find out how to expand the business and how to write people and so on I think those are key to helping everybody make more money. but yeah Thank you. Do you have a narrative you'd like to change, Faisal? Or reclaim? Any questions before we close? Can I just say that for me, and I feel quite strongly about it, is that we're just people and, you know, we're just living human beings. They've got blood inside of us.
00:52:47
Speaker
We're not going to hurt anybody. We just kind of like have the same aspirations as everybody else. We want a good life. We want food, shelter, clothing. We love our families. And that's the narrative I want you to take it back with you.
00:53:02
Speaker
We're not all the same. When I say we're not all, and that's kind of like in Britica, we're just, you know, we all got, I mean, look at us here, and we've all got to come from different backgrounds. We have different views on life. See us as individual people, okay?
00:53:17
Speaker
Do not kind of like make any stereotypes. Check your biases like you might have. But for me, changing narrative is really important in terms of seeing us as people. We have dreams, hopes, aspirations. We want to live a good life, I think.
00:53:34
Speaker
Just wanted to add one thing. as um It goes back to what you said, Faisal, right at the beginning. That statement that our mothers and our fathers make to us quite often, nominees from the grandmother action. You got to work harder. You always got to work harder. They never say work smarter. So I think that that is the thing that we need to change that narrative to. Don't just work harder, because if you work in smart, by default you're working in hard.
00:53:57
Speaker
And I think that brings our wonderful panel to a close. So I'd like to thank you so much for your participation, your time, taking the time to be here and answer some really great questions. And thank you for those who sent those questions in as well. There was a lot of thought that went into those compiled by our committee and from, you know, the company.