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EP:11 Battling bias in the kitchen with Chanelle Taylor
84 Plays1 year ago
In the final episode of our Inclusion Month series, Sam Wakeham interviews Chanelle Taylor, pastry chef at BaxterStorey. As we celebrate Inclusion Month, we dive deep into Chanelle's personal journey as a young female chef in the hospitality industry, discussing her experiences with stereotypes, harassment, and gender-related challenges. Chanelle's story is an inspiring testament to resilience and the power of breaking barriers. Tune in for a thought-provoking and eye-opening exploration of inclusion and empowerment.
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Transcript
Introduction to Inclusion Series
00:00:03
Speaker
to FYI the Baxter Story podcast. I'm Sam Wacom, your host for our Inclusion series, shining a spotlight on unique stories from people across our business.
Introducing Chanel Taylor
00:00:12
Speaker
As we celebrate Inclusion Month at Baxter Story, we have a special guest, Chanel Taylor, experience chef-departy at one of Baxter Story's locations. Chanel will be sharing her personal experiences of working in the hospitality industry.
Experiences with Age and Gender Stereotypes
00:00:25
Speaker
We will be delving deep into her experiences with stereotyping, harassment and the disrespect she has experienced due to her age and gender. Chanel, thank you for joining our podcast. First up, can you just tell us about your journey into the world of hospitality and how you became a pastry chef?
00:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, of course. I started my journey when I was younger with my nan and granddad. They would always bake. And I remember a time where my mum and dad, we were moving from a different area and my sisters didn't have a placement in the school. So mum and dad had to keep traveling back and forth.
00:01:01
Speaker
I stayed with my nan and graduated quite a lot. Every time they picked me up from school, we'd make something different. I think the love just kind of grew from there. And then at school, I studied food technology and I started in the kitchen when I was 15. Oh wow. Yeah. So it was quite young, obviously. I don't think I was meant to at that age. And then I carried on, studied a chef diploma at Westminster Kingsway for three years, and then graduated with a diploma, which was really good.
00:01:31
Speaker
So you kind of always knew you wanted to be in food. Yeah, which was a bit crazy being so young and knowing what I wanted to do straight away, but it's been really rewarding throughout.
Passion for Pastry and Challenges
00:01:40
Speaker
You're a pastry chef at the moment. I am, yes, one of the flagship sites. Do you enjoy it? Yeah, I do really enjoy it. I mean, it's a lot of hard work. It's not as glamorous as people see on TV, but it comes with a lot of reward as well afterwards, especially when we get good feedback and working with a good team as well. So it's really good.
Navigating a Male-Dominated Kitchen Culture
00:02:00
Speaker
We want to talk about kitchen culture for Inclusion Month. Are there any challenges that you face as a female show? Let's say, compared to others starting quite young, being in such an intense and male-dominated field, are there challenges that feel kind of personality-wise, trying to stand out? How do you do that?
00:02:22
Speaker
It comes with a lot of trying to speak up. You do get pushed down and disregarded a lot, but it's just, we just got to keep pushing. Is that because you're a female or is that just chefs in general? I'd definitely say chefs in general. I mean, it's also age. If you start really young, you walk in, people are like, well, they don't really know. I don't have much experience, but it does also come with being a female. Obviously they don't feel like you can
00:02:48
Speaker
Take the pressure because a lot of people say women are too sensitive. The age as well, I'd say. My first job at 15, it was just men and me being quite young and just being around a lot of older men, which was fine. I learned a lot. Why it made me the first name today from speaking up.
00:03:05
Speaker
and saying when things are wrong or things I don't agree with, but not just my first
Harassment and Workplace Dynamics
00:03:11
Speaker
job. Being in a career where it's more men than females, there's not many people to look up to or maybe to talk to about certain things, especially when you may feel a bit nervous or a bit out of place is a bit hard, but then that's when you grow and you can make a voice and a place for yourself.
00:03:32
Speaker
Where was your first job? Was that in the kitchen? Yeah, well, it was in the kitchen. It was actually in a wedding venue. It was a big eye-opener. I mean, being 15, I wasn't reacting to the deep end too much. I was there for a few years and even when I had a lot of experience, I maybe wasn't
00:03:49
Speaker
chosen or put into situations where I deserve to be. I mean I got pushed down a lot which was quite hard but I guess that kind of pushed me to experiment and go somewhere else. Are there any instances where you have experienced harassment or disrespect in that place?
00:04:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think every woman's got their own stories, which is scary, but I have had quite a few situations. There's been times where I've done work placements while still at college and I've had different men follow me home. I've had... Sorry, men from your work place? From the work placements, being at college, still being quite young.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm vulnerable. Obviously, when you're studying as well, you want to make a good impression. You want to do very well. You want to get good feedback. But obviously, when you are just seen as vulnerable or just someone that maybe don't speak up,
00:04:50
Speaker
There's been situations where I've either had to leave a work placement early because I felt very uncomfortable from the men working there, or I've had one situation where someone followed me home. But it's not even in the kitchen, it's outside in the world, which is very scary.
Positive Workplace Changes
00:05:09
Speaker
As I said, many women have their own stories.
00:05:13
Speaker
And it's hard for some men to believe because they feel like, obviously, not all, of course, like some men feel like that we put ourselves in those situations. But sometimes we can't avoid them because you just never know what is going to happen. And there's been another situation when I was younger where a man cornered me, a lot older, older gentleman.
00:05:40
Speaker
you just don't know what to do in that situation do you kind of backs up you don't want to cause a problem you don't know if it's obviously it's wrong but you don't know if he's joking so you don't want to cause a problem you don't want to
00:05:55
Speaker
upset anyone even though you're the one that's the victim really. Was this at work as well? Yes this is at work but it's made me and I'm sure it's made a lot of women that are in the industry now who they are today because I'm sure they've had those instances where they've made them angry it's not nice but I'm in a work placement now it's amazing I work with many
00:06:18
Speaker
amazing men that have the same feelings towards those kind of situations as us. We have a lot of men that are there for us, always make sure we're okay. It is a lot better, but unfortunately there's still those places and still those people that are going to try to take advantage and to make your time a lot worse. They will get better.
Confidence and Industry Change
00:06:41
Speaker
Were you able to talk to anyone at the time?
00:06:43
Speaker
It's hard when you're younger, having those conversations. Like I said, when you're trying to get into the industry, you don't want to come across as, I know it sounds really silly now saying it out loud, but you don't want to cause a problem even though it is a problem.
00:07:03
Speaker
and it needs to be spoke about but it's one of those where you just you don't want to not have a name for yourself but you want to have a good check record from yourself trying to go through the career. It's just good that everything's getting escalated now, everything's getting spoken about trying to change so it just makes it a lot easier for the young girls that are in college now or the young girls that are in the kitchens now even
00:07:30
Speaker
even for the young men that are in the kitchens as well, if they're going through certain situations, it's good to know that there is people trying to speak about it, trying to make a change. Do you feel confident and comfortable now if that was to happen again? Oh yeah, definitely. I think that's what makes me happy that it happened because it made me who I am today. I know
00:07:54
Speaker
that if I was to see something or if something was to happen to me again it's going to be spoken about and it's going to change. I have nieces, I have sisters, if they were in that situation you'd want someone else to speak up and try and change it for the next.
00:08:12
Speaker
You're part of the Rise group. I am, yeah. Well, facts are story and everyone that shares their stories. Are there similar stories still going on now? Yeah. I mean, you hear loads of stories, not just in kitchens, from friends back home, them in the offices, even some women that I've worked with where she's the head chef and we've had someone in for a trial and he's here to see her, but he doesn't realise. So he goes straight for.
00:08:42
Speaker
the first male chef that he sees. And he starts introducing himself and kind of disregards her and doesn't say anything. And then as he says, oh, are you the head chef? And he goes, no, not me. She is. And he's just...
00:08:58
Speaker
like whoa oh my gosh and didn't realise but he's already made that assumption and disregarded her even though she's worked hard she's put herself in that situation but he's just because she's a woman.
Role Models and Policy Changes
00:09:14
Speaker
But it's like I said, it's even with age. If you have a young head chef and there's an older woman that's walked into that kitchen and disregards you completely, it just shows really, doesn't it? There's loads of different assumptions around
00:09:31
Speaker
different categories but there is a lot of change you can tell and it feels a lot better being in in the industry there's still things that need to be changed which we're doing now which is amazing to be a part of. Do you think kitchen culture is harder for women?
00:09:47
Speaker
Yes, I do. I mean, being a male-dominated field, women are just labelled straight away as sensitive, can't handle pressure, are not strong enough. I mean, obviously, as much as I don't want to admit it, a man is technically stronger, but we can handle the same things as a man can.
00:10:07
Speaker
we can be in that kitchen, we can do the hours that they do, and we deserve the equal respect that they get. Because we do the same work, we put in the same amount of love and
00:10:22
Speaker
care and hard work that anyone else does, when you find out that your colleague is getting paid more for the same job or even something below you, it makes some people think, why bother really? But we need to have that equality where it's worth people fighting for it.
00:10:47
Speaker
Have you seen changes since your career started? Yeah, definitely. There is a lot more females in higher roles, I'd say, a lot more people to look to and to work towards as well, I'd
Advice for Young Women in Hospitality
00:11:01
Speaker
say. And the Rise group, they made a lot of
00:11:04
Speaker
changes I mean the changes to the maternity leave the surrogacy is absolutely insane the changes that we've made and that's just something so small and hopefully it expands and everyone else follows
00:11:19
Speaker
and attracts more women into the business. Yeah, exactly. We need more women in the kitchen, not just obviously some people just say it's just pastry, it's not. We need more women in the main kitchen, more women in bakery, pastry, same with men. We need more men in pastry, main kitchen. We just need everyone to work together to have that balance, but equal balance of respect and opportunities for both, I'd say.
00:11:46
Speaker
Do you think there's enough female role models in the industry? No, I think what I saw, it was men. Obviously, I enjoyed watching all of them and I thought, I'd love to do that. But no, there was not many female chefs. Oh, I could be like her.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, definitely Nigella. I mean, you've got amazing chefs at Roof Hanson now as well, which is an amazing role model to look to, especially for younger chefs as well. Because she isn't just a chef, she's a forager. She is insane of what she does. But yeah, if you're not in the industry, you wouldn't really. Exactly.
00:12:34
Speaker
So what advice would you give to a young woman who is thinking about growing into the hospitality industry and in particular the kitchen? I would say obviously it's going to be hard. You're going to walk into such an intense but very rewarding environment. If you know or see anything that's
00:12:58
Speaker
not right, or makes you feel uncomfortable, speak up, but also just make a lot of connections. Everyone has a story, everyone's been through something, not just gender-wise, but discrimination, but the different people that you meet throughout the industry.
00:13:19
Speaker
you'll learn so much. But being a woman in the kitchen, I'd say think of the generation under you. Just think of making it a better place and a better industry and a better workplace to work in.
Achievements and Unique Opportunities
00:13:37
Speaker
not just for yourself but for other people, but enjoy it. It's so rewarding. You get to be around so much amazing food, such an incredibly growing industry that, I mean, just enjoy it. That's all I can say. What are your positive experiences being in the kitchen?
00:13:58
Speaker
I mean, it opens those doors for different things in certain workplaces, like Vaxa Story. You can be involved in apprenticeships, you can do competitions, you can meet loads of different amazing people. And it also can open different doors if the kitchen life is not for you, there's other opportunities for you.
00:14:25
Speaker
It's just a huge industry that some people don't realise and it is very, very rewarding. That's very true. Are there any memorable moments or achievements that you've had in your career that you'd like to share? Well, I'd say the first one was graduating. I think that was a
00:14:43
Speaker
It was a hard three years, but then I was really good. I really enjoyed it. But just to finally get that diploma, I got to experience different things within college time. I got to go to Buckingham Palace. Yeah, which was amazing. And now King Charles and Camilla, he's just opened a lot of
00:15:05
Speaker
different opportunities for me and also to see different types of food, preparation and or pastry really as well.
Harassment Strategies and Vigilance
00:15:13
Speaker
So it's been amazing so far. What happened to the individuals with the two harassment that you experienced? Are they still? Yeah, I kicked myself even to this day. The first one I didn't say anything.
00:15:27
Speaker
I just left. I just left the work placements because I felt very uncomfortable. I did mention it to the head chef, so I'm not sure if anything got done. I wanted to give him a reason as to why I was leaving. But the second one was, I had mentioned it, but I think it was because he was making me feel uncomfortable for quite a while and then I handed him my notice.
00:15:50
Speaker
But he knew when my last day was, and that was the day that he had followed me home. Was it returning to that workplace? So I'm not sure if anything was done about him. I didn't even want to think about that place after I saw him.
00:16:07
Speaker
What was he doing? He, well, it might sound nice, but he was waiting outside for me with flowers and he was trying to make a conversation. I told him nicely that I wasn't interested, but then he just continuously followed me. Even though I tried to get on different trains, he was always there. But luckily, I had talked to someone on the train and I said, I feel uncomfortable. Can you help me? And they did. We made a plan as to when
00:16:35
Speaker
The doors were about to close. We would quickly jump off. So the guy was stuck on that train. So then I got a different one, which was, yeah, which worked, but still very scary. That was, that was quite a few years ago now. I mean, women.
00:16:50
Speaker
We always experience it every day if we're on a night out with our friends or not every day but every other day. And it's just shocking that you go to a one woman and you say, oh, and it's like, oh yeah, I've had similar. But better safe than sorry, I think.
Encouragement for Women in Culinary Careers
00:17:07
Speaker
You don't want to scare people, but you need to be a realist and you need to save these kind of people who are out there. You need to be careful. Are there any final thoughts that you'd like to share with us? I don't want
00:17:20
Speaker
anyone to feel like this is happening and you should put your life on hold because you're scared. I feel like everyone goes through different things, but it makes us the people we are today to kind of face it and be that change to make it different and to make it better. But yeah, I'd say if you're a female and you're looking to come into the kitchen, do it. It's so rewarding and you'll thank yourself for it afterwards.
00:17:50
Speaker
you