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S2:EP6: Leading through Active Allyship with Katharine Dixon
48 Plays9 months ago
Our second episode of our Pride take-over with Shine is hosted once again by Sean Marcs (He/They) This episode focuses on the power of LGBTQIA+ Allyship and the critical role leaders play as allies both in and out of the workplace, not just during the PRIDE Season but every day.
Our host Sean is joined by Katherine Dixon (She/Her), LGBTQIA+ Ally and General Manager at BaxterStorey.
Together, they delve into active allyship, its profound impact on LGBTQIA+ people, and how you can better lead in allyship for all.
Tune in now and join the conversation!
Stonewall LGBTQ+ Allies Programme - Stonewall LGBTQ+ Allies Programme | Stonewall
Inclusive Employers - Inclusive Employers - experts in workplace inclusion
We Create Space - WE CREATE SPACE | Community, Platform & Consultancy
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Purpose of Shine Network
00:00:05
Speaker
friends and happy Pride Month, because this is going to be recorded in Pride Month, even though you might be listening to it in Pride season. Welcome to our second Pride special Shine Takeover episode on FYI, the Baxter Story podcast. Shine is Baxter Story's LGBTQIA plus and allies network, and we're on a mission to create the most inclusive culture in hospitality. And this conversation is part of our commitment to shine a light on the power of allyship.
Meet Catherine Dixon - Insights into Leadership and Allyship
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm Shaw Marks, I go by the pronouns he-day, and I'm your host for this episode leading through active allyship. Today I am joined by the incredible Catherine Dixon, general manager and co-chair of Shine's North Hub. And just a little bit of backstory for you. I actually first met Catherine by chance last year when I was looking for a location to do some back to the floor experience for in December.
00:00:56
Speaker
And we very quickly joined over our mutual love for all things drag race. But as we converse, what really struck me in our conversation was just the generosity and the empathy of Catherine's leadership. And the stories that she would tell me that demonstrated these small and large gestures of allyship that I don't even know that she really was aware of the impact of. And I turned her and I said, you would be the perfect chair for our North region for our new Shine network. And Catherine turned to me and expressed that she would love to, but also really questioned whether or not she was the right person to take this space as an ally and not a member of the LGBTQI plus community. The very fact that she even asked that question just demonstrated to me that she was the perfect person to become a co-chair.
00:01:46
Speaker
Like many, Catherine wasn't aware of just how important, effective, powerful and critical allyship is. you know I certainly couldn't have got to where I am in my life without them and I know many others who would say the same because we can't change the world alone.
The Impact of Allyship on Culture
00:02:01
Speaker
So who better to dive into this conversation with as over the next 30 minutes, we explore what active allyship is, the impact that it has on individuals, teams, and cultures, and how you can better lead through allyship for all people. Our hope is that this conversation will give you the encouragement to become an active ally and the courage to be a better ally, knowing that your presence and action matter.
00:02:25
Speaker
So let's jump in. First of all, a big thank you for joining us today, Catherine. Good morning. Thank you. I needed that on a Monday. That's good. Well, I wanted to start off this conversation with finding out a bit more about you. So Catherine, what is your story for people listening? Okay. So, way to begin. I guess my story in getting to this point of joining Shine is that when I was a little girl, because it's going back a long time, my cousin came out and my family obviously wanted me to have a full explanation of of what that meant. And they sat me down and explained that he had chosen to love another man and that that was completely acceptable. And that, you know, if, if it's safe and happy, then it's, it's a good thing.
00:03:19
Speaker
And so it was always positive in my, in my life from my, my upbringing with my parents, you know, the gay community and, and, and how it worked was explained to me. And, you know, I was very fortunate and that, that respect, I think it was never a taboo topic and we were a very open family. So I had a really positive introduction to it. My cousin then went on to get married. So it was, it was just, it was just part of life. So I never really thought or saw the negative side to it. And then.
Personal Experiences Shaping Allyship
00:03:49
Speaker
Later in life, one of my bestest, bestest friends, and she won't mind me sharing this, came out to her family and she'd she'd been living a completely secret life even from myself and a lot of our friends. She was really worried and concerned about coming out. um And she came out to her parents and unfortunately it was a it wasn't a positive response. And I saw her go through really upsetting, challenging times. And that kind of opened my eyes to that it's not all
00:04:19
Speaker
you know, just happy and and love and everyone's accepting. And then fast forward into my work career, I had members of staff who came to me and told me about some amazing happiness of getting engaged to their girlfriend and it was beautiful, ah but yet she couldn't be open and honest about it with her family. And I really wanted to show a support and a care for people. I really wanted to to give people a really safe and happy place that they could express themselves and be themselves in the workplace. And then this opportunity came up with Shine, and it kind of all sorted together and met yourself. and We bonded, like you said. And I thought, I can i can be part of this. you know i Like you say, I'm i'm an ally. I'm i'm not a you know i'm a heterosexual, married woman.
00:05:15
Speaker
but I wanted to be there for people and I wanted to show other people as well that the support's really important, yeah that to be an ally can make a difference and impact people's world and give them an opportunity to to be themselves at work, because we spend so much of our time at work that you know it needs to be a ah happy, safe place. So much better time at work. And and I love that, and well, thank you know first of all, thank you for sharing that, such a personal story. I love that you were brought up in the household that we're really accepting of
00:05:46
Speaker
people in all their beautiful, wonderful forms and that you, you know, I'm sorry that you did have that experience where you kind of realized that it wasn't all rainbows and then actually action really is needed and support really needed. Now I'm ah really aware that a lot of people listening may not actually understand what an ally is. So I just wanted to quickly define it and then get some of your thoughts on on what being an ally means to you. So when I looked up the definition, there's lots of different versions of it, but I quite liked a definition that was given to by a company called a group called We Create Space and they define active ally share for someone who provides support and assistance to members of a marginalised group without being a part of that group themselves. By allying yourself with a marginalised group you strengthen their power and provide added legitimacy to their claims.
00:06:31
Speaker
They go on to say that this doesn't mean that an ally is without marginalisations and also acknowledge that an ally's commitment to a cause may be driven by experiencing injustice in others, much actually like what you just shared, Catherine. So Catherine, what does being an ally mean to you? To me, it's it's really important that I'm open in accepting. I make it really clear with anybody that, you know, my my My life consists of of people that have come out that are happily married or are experiencing things. I'm really open and honest with it. And I want people to know that they can be themselves with me, especially in the workplace, but also in my personal life as well. You know, when my friends came out to me, I didn't make a big deal about it. I was just, I was very, I thanked them for being open and honest with me, but I i wanted them to know that it,
00:07:28
Speaker
it It was just the norm and it was just accepted and being an ally. I want people to know that it's a safe space and I want to stand up for them in in times when people think it's appropriate to maybe say something that's inappropriate. I want people to be educated about it. A safe space, like I've mentioned, is really important. I want people to be themselves, but I want to be the voice that educates the people that aren't aware or don't understand. I think that's really crucial because there's still a stigma and there's still a historic taboo and negativity, unfortunately, surrounding it. And it's those people that when they say a comment that they think is acceptable.
00:08:15
Speaker
I like to jump up and shout, but, you know, I'm not afraid to put my voice out there and say that's not acceptable. Or did you know by saying that it has this effects and, you know, you shouldn't say that, you know, educate them and sort of lead the way. I want to be the voice that of people that may be a bit worried to shout because they don't want to draw attention to themselves. I will happily stand in front and and and shout for them and and take the focus maybe off them that they don't want and make them feel safe and and protected and loved. Yeah, love is so important. And I think you just highlighted why it's so important that leaders, particularly, are active allies. You know, when we look at work specifically, we, you know, in the last episode, we talked about inclusion and, you know, inclusion isn't felt by the strategies or what we say we're going to do. Actually, inclusion is felt in the day-to-day interactions with other people, you know, in our workplaces, at lunch, during men meetings, in conversations with fellow colleagues and team members. And that is so critical as a leader that
00:09:13
Speaker
we have that ally-shaped presence so that we're able to nurture that inclusive environment. So, as you said, everyone feels valued, respected, heard, and seen, and we can build that real sense of belonging. I wonder, is there anyone that's inspired you to be more active ally for the LGBTQI Plus community? As I mentioned, my best friend was a real client in in in wanting to support. My stepchildren as well, I've got a stepson and a stepdaughter who have both come out recently. And and i I did think, how would I want them to be feeling in the workplace? How would I want them to have the confidence in the world? you know I hope there's somebody there that respects them and you know that nobody
00:10:01
Speaker
d doesn't value them the same because, you know, i think I think the world's changing. I think my children's generations view it completely different and that's far and big less and I love it. And they're so confident in who they are and what they're about. i And I think think that's inspired me a bit as well to kind of almost work it backwards and bring that that confidence and that that's that freedom into the other people and and show them that it's you know it's just love. It's just it's not a a scary thing that you know needs to be, I don't know what the word is, but ah kind of a a big thing for me is the educational piece.
Shine Network's Role in Inclusivity and Allyship
00:10:47
Speaker
and and I think the opportunity to join Shine as an ally and in a managerial position is to show other managers that it's such a big impact that we can have and to make people feel safe.
00:11:00
Speaker
just as an ally, you know we can be a voice and we can be a ah presence that can that can change and impact. And having had best friends and and members of my team not experienced the most positive or they even still be unable to to fully be themselves, I never want anybody to feel like that in the workplace. I want them to feel accepted and free to be who they are. and support them and and let them know they're valued and you know they can just just be who they are. So for me, it was a big thing as an ally to to be known as an ally and joining Shine and and representing kind of helps with that big time. Yeah. Yeah. And wait we love having you part of Shine as well. And it's interesting because you touched on that word fear and the need for education
00:11:56
Speaker
What else do you think really stops people from being a more visible and active ally? you know what What stops them from moving from that sideline into the pitch? I did it as a sports analogy. I've never done a sports analogy in my life. yeah
00:12:12
Speaker
and Again, even myself, i I feel I still have a lot to learn and I sometimes doubt myself as an ally. Do I really know what I'm talking about? What happens if I get it wrong? What own if I say something that's not right or I address something in the wrong manner? So I understand that people would themselves have fear of being a stand up ally. But that I think that's just another strength. I think putting yourself into the position to to be an ally will educate you ultimately. you know i'm I'm learning, I'm joining in on activities and I'm joining in on and
00:12:51
Speaker
producing documents for Baxter story. And all of it is a big learning and curve for myself as well. And I still think, oh, gosh, what if I say something, even on this podcast, you know, what if I say the wrong thing? But I think that's appreciated by the community. And I think, you know, I'm putting myself out there so that I can learn and that I'll learn along the way. And I can understand as well if a manager feels or what if I put myself out there to support and some of that negativity comes onto me, you know, once people start taking the mic out of me or saying comments about me or think that, you know, maybe you're a heterosexual man and you think, oh, everyone's going to think I'm gay and couldn't possibly do that. yeah That in itself is, is part of being an ally. It's it's not been afraid to maybe people do think that. So what, do you know, it's, you know, you can correct them if you feel you need to, but if they want to believe that about you,
00:13:48
Speaker
So, you know, duck off a water for ducks back. is it it's yeah It's just putting yourself in a position to know that people think, oh gosh, they're standing up for me and my community. They're supporting me. You know, creating that safe space is huge in the workplace. And I think it's really key.
Creating Safe Spaces and Visual Support for Inclusivity
00:14:07
Speaker
and I think it's amazing that Back to the Story have created Shine to support people because as much as my staff have come to me and ah are open and honest about their relationships, that's only the ones that have come forward. There could be other people that work for me or work through the wider Back to the Story that still don't feel comfortable and confident to be themselves. And the more we do and the more we put out there and the more people that join and stand united throughout Back to the Story,
00:14:34
Speaker
the more people will hopefully just be themselves at work and, you know, let their individual shine through, you know, and and just and be who they need to be. So you it's that it's that humanness, isn't it? It's just being, yeah you know, I suppose removing the fear requires people to really believe in and know the impact of why they're doing what they're doing, why they're choosing to kind of be the active ally versus take that step back. So, In there, you mentioned, you know, when we look at things that people can do to be a better ally for those who may already be an ally, but will actually want to become more active. You already mentioned a couple in there around educating yourself, not expecting perfection because we are all human and it is about that learning, ah yes which is really important. What other things can people do to demonstrate active ally leadership?
00:15:30
Speaker
I think definitely sharing the Shine newsletters that come out, look at me, so on brand, but just, you know, embracing activities that you can that show that you're supporting. So, you know, sharing the newsletter on your staff board, if you're doing in-house newsletter, incorporate elements into that, publicize any of the Shine pieces that come out. So like this podcast, for example, definitely sharing that with everybody. celebrating Pride Month, just being open and honest in conversations about how how you feel towards it. But yeah, definitely, I think the list list things can make a big impact on this. I think just printing off the newsletter and putting it on the staff notice board shows that you're incorporating it into the culture of of your workplace. yeah And I think little things will make people go, oh, they
00:16:22
Speaker
They've put that up. they They must be comfortable with that. That must be something that they accept. And I think little little gestures can make a bit big difference. For me, I talk about my personal experiences as well with people because I think it humanizes it. Like you say, it's it's not just a statistic or information on a board. It makes it that personal touch that people can relate to. And I'll do that with colleagues ah just talking about our families because, you know, a big part of my family now is, you know, my two children. And so it's just making people know that the truth that I live is is it something that they might be able to tap into and feel comfortable with them telling their truth. yeah But as a manager, the little things that put in the newsletter on the board, I think would would impact straight away that people know that that's something that you are
00:17:15
Speaker
and wanting to share with the team and wanting to support. I think it's that there's visual things that you can do. And then, as you said, the little gestures, like the conversations that you have with team members, the way that you call out um or call in people who may be saying something that may be offensive to somebody who's part of the community. and I think that's really important. And then what I also loved about what you said earlier is that you hold space.
Pronoun Usage and Intersectionality in Allyship
00:17:40
Speaker
So you recognize that actually some individuals may not be ready to share their stories or be their full selves at work.
00:17:46
Speaker
But you're holding that space, that safe space for them to be able to, when they choose to step forward into that light. Definitely. And I think that, you know, that is so important in, in, in doing that. I think one of the other things I'd probably add there is pronoun usage. and I don't know that that's, you know, taken off and you know, there's a lot of people now who show their pronouns after their name, but I know that there's also a lot of people who don't and I kind of get a lot of comments around, oh, well, you know, I don't feel like I need to. And actually I went to a really interesting event a couple of months ago by checking in, which is a hospitality LGBT plus network. And there was a really interesting comment around actually, if you choose not to show your pronouns after, and you leave it up to the communities of people to do that for themselves, are you really being an ally? Because allyship is again about doing something so that you're showing that you're standing with them and they aren't having to fight that fight or be that but fight that battle. a Yeah.
00:18:38
Speaker
So I think pronouns again is another great way that people can demonstrate active allyship and what they do. The other thing that I think we that I really liked about the definition I read earlier about recreate space is that recognition of intersectionality in allyship. And then actually we can be a great ally for one group of people, but that doesn't mean that we can't be to the full person in its intersectionality, because you might have a person who identifies at LGBTQI+. but that person might also be a person of colour or also lives with a disability. And so they actually may be discriminated against for multiple identities, not just one of those. And I think, you know, to be a real effective ally, we have to be intersectional, which means we can't just fight for the rights of LGBTQI plus people, we have to fight for equality for everyone, regardless of their race, gender, identity, disability or sexual preferences. What do you think
00:19:30
Speaker
leaders can do to educate themselves to show up for the whole person? and That's a big question for a Monday morning.
00:19:42
Speaker
It's definitely looking into it, joining joining in on on the education that's provided through the company, through like yourself, you know, you you go to events or you read up on stuff and speaking to the individuals as well, making sure that they feel that they're incorporated, you know, make checking in on them, seeing how how they're doing in all elements of their lives. I think one-to-one with team members is crucial. And, and you know, asking those hard questions sometimes, you need to kind of face-to-face sort of just check in in and ask those those tough questions. Do they do they they feel valued? Do they feel incorporated? And I know we do that on a bigger scale through surveys as a company, but
00:20:28
Speaker
as a manager, you know just making sure that on the floor that they they're feeling incorporated and included. And education, I know I've said it all the way through this, but I want to know that I'm getting it right and I want to know you know what the issues are. And as much as the internet has some stuff that will lead you down a rabbit hole, it's it's full of really useful information and there's there's some key websites that can really support you on finding out the answers to those questions that you might not feel comfortable asking somebody, but you can gain that knowledge that way by the internet. And then back to the story, obviously, we have Diving Shine, you know, those networks that Back to the Story have put together hold a lot of useful information that you can tap into. And there's people on there like yourself
00:21:17
Speaker
who I could pick the phone up to, who I could drop an email to. And I think that's the strength of the company is that we have those key people that are would love to get that email to go, oh gosh, yeah, no, totally happy to help. and this is how you could handle it or this these resources are available. So it's not been afraid to ask those questions and to gain that information. And and there's loads of people throughout our company that will be more than happy to support and different things. So for example, a while back they did the Dyslexia podcast. um And as somebody who's dyslexic, I was so touched by that. It meant so much that the company was was was identifying something that I thought was
00:21:59
Speaker
You know, it's something that it dealt with at school. And when you're an adult with dyslexia, you just have to get on with it. But the company didn't. The company was like, you know, we see dyslexia as a strength because you have different attributes that you can bring when you've got dyslexia. And it's the same with every other thing that we've got. So as a woman, you know, backstory, talking about the strengths and the issues we have to go through as a woman through the rise group and then shine again is is giving those that information and and those strengths throughout the company. So.
Fostering Inclusivity through ERGs and Leadership Advice
00:22:29
Speaker
I've totally got off track. say No, i I think that was beautifully answered. I think just identifying.
00:22:36
Speaker
it really the is that people can be part of one resource group if if a business does have lots of resource groups. you know I can be an ally for Rise and be an active member of the community of Shine and be there for the other ERGs to identify that you know intersectionality is ah is a thing and and people are part of multiple of these networks. You don't have to be exclusively to one. and I think you know the power as we start to build more ERGs of backstory, and I hope we have many more on the horizon, and is that as ERGs we work together collaboratively, and we already do, but even we work further to together collaboratively to demonstrate that intersectionality, and so that people feel kind of seen and in their in their full selves. Thank you for your answer to those questions, I really love that. So I've got a little lightning round for you if you're ready.
00:23:26
Speaker
Oh gosh, okay. So quick answer, but quick question, a quick response. Allyship is? Caring for others. others What is one thing you've learnt recently and your role as an active ally? The impact we can have. You mentioned resources and websites. What is one website that you've gone to recently to find out a bit more information about allyship that people should go to? but I went to look at where all the Pride events were around the UK. I can't remember the name of the website, but there was so much information on there. Oh gosh, I don't remember the the name of the site. that's but yes oh How will you be celebrating Pride Month? How will I be celebrating? I would love to get to a Pride festival, but I have a three-year-old, so that probably won't happen unless somebody's willing to babysit. And I'll be celebrating with my
00:24:19
Speaker
my family and I will be celebrating through work as well. I'll be very vocal about it and sharing information with the team of everything that's going on. Nice. So I've got one last long question for you. So we know that, you know, it's been an interesting time for the LGBTQ community, particularly the trans community. Unfortunately, research shows that there's a rise in anti-LGBT class rhetoric, discrimination, hate crime incidents, And there's it's highlighting some significant challenges for progress that are really happening. and And as I said earlier, it must be said that these challenges and issues are disproportionately felt by the trans community. So if you could speak to any leaders sitting on the fence now who aren't already today active allies, what would you say to those leaders to encourage them to be more active in their allyship in the future?
00:25:14
Speaker
I think I should probably start by asking them what it is that's holding them back because everybody has ah a personal journey to it and maybe something has occurred with themselves that's put them in a position that they're concerned about being supportive. And also I'd reassure them that there's so much support as an ally from the community that, you know, throughout the journey of Joining Shine, I've been incredibly welcomed as an ally and I've been supported and educated along the way with it all.
00:25:46
Speaker
and it any point I felt comfortable to sort of say, what is that? And and and what does that mean? And and how can how can I be supportive of that? you know whats What's my role within it? So I think the only thing that would be holding people back is the worry of the stigma that may fall upon them, the lack of and lack of knowledge around the subject and how they can support. And I'd just say that they shouldn't hold you back. We need you. we need We need as many people as possible to be supportive and create a culture within the workplace that we are accepting and supportive to everybody. So yeah, if if anybody has any fears or concerns,
00:26:41
Speaker
please don't speak to me, email me, ring me, you know, I'd be more than happy to support somebody who's a bit unsure if it's for them. I can guarantee you it is. It's a great, great group of people and we're making changes so you can be part of that and your team will appreciate it, especially if you have somebody that is in the shadows and doesn't feel comfortable to come out by making such a small move to join and be vocal could make that one person's world. They come to work every day and do the jobs we need them to do, so let's turn around and do something that they needed us to do by supporting them and making them feel included and and welcomed in the workplace. You are so inspirational. Do you know what I love more than anything? I love that you started
00:27:30
Speaker
answering that question by the question that you would ask those leaders sitting on the side, calling them into conversation to find out more. yeah Speaks volumes for the leader that you are. ah and And why I think, you know, but you know, I just did all of you and i'm I'm so grateful to have you as an ally. So a big thank you for jumping on this podcast episode with me and having this fantastic conversation. Oh, thank you. And thank you for making me feel so welcomed and shine as an ally. And I have one question for you if I may. Oh, go ahead. As an ally, what what do you want from your allies? What do you want from us? Joe, I think it is just the more more of the questions. I know, obviously, being aware that for some people, answering those questions is harder than for others in the community. But asking those questions, holding that space. I think it's knowing actually the one thing is knowing
00:28:23
Speaker
When is it useful for you to use your voice this as an ally where where we may feel less confident or like we don't have a voice? And where do you just need to hold space for us to use our voices and to feel supported in speaking our truth and and what we need and communicating that it from from our own words in our own way? So I think it's going, flipping between that two, knowing when to be a vocal ally And from where when you need to step back and push us forward to allow us to use our voices. I think that's really important and crucial for me. Good question. Thank you.
Conclusion and Resources for Allyship
00:28:57
Speaker
Thank you. And thank you to everyone listening for joining us for our second Shine Takeover episode on FYI, the Backstory podcast for Pride season.
00:29:06
Speaker
So we hope that this conversation inspires further discussion, learning and continuous acts of active allyship. For those looking for additional ally support and resources, I'm going to make some special mentions to Stonewall's LGBTQI Plus allies program, our inclusive and diversity partner inclusive employers who have a host of materials. and We Create Space, who are a queer-led learning platform, community network, and D&I consultancy, doing some incredible work. It just keeps popping up all over my feed recently, and links to these will be in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's discussion, don't forget to subscribe to our Spotify channel for more engaging conversations, and stay tuned for upcoming episodes. And let me leave you with this quote by Dana Allison-Levy, one of the co-authors of the book, Being an Ally. Whatever we call ourselves, an ally, an accomplice, a co-conspirator,
00:29:53
Speaker
We must do better to understand, empathise and take action to care for each other. Keep shining wherever you're listening. Till next time.