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S2:EP4: Food for Thought - Food that feeds your mental wellbeing
120 Plays11 months ago
In this episode, we are joined by Great British Menu winner, Kirk Haworth, Andy Aston and Charlotte O'Donnell, hosted by Natalie Mainwaring. Together, they discuss the importance of what good food in our daily lives can do for us and the difference it can make to not just our overall health, but our mental wellbeing too.
Kirk gives his expert opinion on fuelling your body and mind to feel your best and how he has used food as a medicine in managing symptoms of Lyme disease. Andy talks about eating like our ancestors and appreciating simple foods. Charlotte gives her experience on the power food can have on our day-to-day lives and how it can transform our outlook on both work and life.
You won't want to miss this episode! Thanks for tuning in.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to a special recording of the Back to the Story FYI podcast. It's a podcast that's really here to talk about topics that are really important and hopefully today we're going to give you some food for thought. I'm really excited to have some brilliant guests with me today.
Meet the Panel: Charlotte, Andy, and Chef Kirk
00:00:19
Speaker
So first of all, we've got Charlotte. Charlotte is really on a mission to make sure the workplace can be as healthy and as happy as it possibly can be. Andy, who is our head of partnerships and community, who does everything for purpose,
00:00:30
Speaker
Andy is also intrinsically linked to our well-being program at Baxter Story, who's going to give us some fantastic insight in terms of food. And then we've got chef extraordinaire, Kirk, who is with us today. You've all probably recently seen Kirk be crowned champion of champions on Great British Menu. Kirk has been one of our original chef partners at Baxter Story and has been a huge advocate in terms of changing mindset around food.
Focus on Mental Health Awareness Week
00:00:55
Speaker
So it is mental health awareness week today. And so therefore there's a bit of theme in terms of how we're going to talk through food. And I'm really excited that I think we're going to bring together three different viewpoints and we're going to talk about expertise and also some lived experiences. So without further ado, let's kick this off. Andy, one of the biggest things that you do on the day today is advocate for food and mood. And I'm just really keen for you to kind of give us some insight in terms of how the two are intrinsically linked.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yes, thank you. Nice to be here. Well, food and mood, if I'll give you a quick brief history on it. Two years ago, we, myself and the nutritionist were at a science lab and presented to six people, you know, and they're all very miserable. We had lovely food there. They didn't want to try asparagus. They didn't want to, they weren't interested at all. So we had some jokes with them. We thought, hang on a minute, we've got something here. We talked about asparagus, why you pea smells, you know, cause some people are put off by that. Don't be put off, it's natural. Just go for your system, it's fine.
00:01:54
Speaker
They started laughing. From that moment on, we found food and mood. We went on a bit of a tour with it. We went to a lot of our businesses and back story. The idea is, it's one of our session, basically, to talk about everything food and how your mood can change. Basically, it set up to educate and excite our teams, but it moved them to the client side, which is great, and teaching people about good wellbeing and sustainable nutrition.
Food and Mood: A Deeper Dive
00:02:19
Speaker
It started two years ago, it's right across our business now, you might even see it here at PwC, across your salad bars, or if it's not here yet, it's on its way. So yeah, for me, I mean, I'm not going to get to personally, but for me, you know, good nutrition starts when you get consistent. And I think for me, that's, and we'll go on to that later, but it's really important you get consistent and try things. And that's the bit about try things, keep moving, keep trying things.
00:02:45
Speaker
And how much can food affect your mood? Is it just a wild statement or is it a real true? Massively. So if I go out now and I eat a beautiful bottle of pickled carrots, some beetroot, some cucumber, lovely tasting stuff, some seasonal asparagus, whatever it might be.
00:03:04
Speaker
If I'm committed, I'll eat that and I'll enjoy every bit of it. But if I can go and take a packet of biscuits or some chocolate or something really, really high in sugar, I'm gonna, my mood's gonna fluctuate. It's gonna fluctuate a lot crazy. And I'd always say this, try and go for something that's a little, there's nothing wrong with sugar, but try and go for something that's a little bit more refreshing, light tasting. So when you eat it, you don't feel heavy. That's the whole idea. When you try the food in Mutu, I don't know, we've done a few here, when you eat that bowl of salad that we give you,
00:03:34
Speaker
you feel great after it. You walk away in the afternoon thinking, you know what, that's really cool. I love that.
Gut Health and Diet Impacts
00:03:39
Speaker
It's like, I don't feel, my mood hasn't changed. Probably a little bit better than it was before I started in the salad. So yeah. It's really interesting. I've actually learned about food hangovers lately and I didn't, you know, everybody knows what traditional hangover is after you've had a few booze.
00:03:52
Speaker
booze-filled hours but actually I've learnt how much you can get food hangover. I knew you definitely woke up on a few times. Has anybody else experienced that? Yeah, for sure. I mean, my journey, I used to journal after I ate things and I would journal how I felt the next day or after I ate it and that's how I started to basically work out about myself. But people say that the gut's the second brain. I believe it's the first brain really.
00:04:17
Speaker
And if we look at things like headaches, leg pain, things like that, we actually look in the wrong places. We actually look in the head or we look in the legs. But actually, if we look to the gut, that can be alleviated by what we're putting in our gut. So yeah, it's a very interesting thing and a very kind of deep-rooted thing when we look at the gut as a whole, because if we look at it on the body, it's a center.
00:04:43
Speaker
of our body, right? So when we look at that level, it's radiating everywhere around us. So it has direct, you know, there's no doubt about it has direct effect to our mood, for sure, you know, if you eat a Domino's pizza, two nights in a row and go to bed the next day, and wake up, you're gonna feel horrendous, you know, I'm gonna feel you know, sub
00:05:04
Speaker
There are some people out there that can get away with and feel all right. But when we look at mental health, there's definitely a massive connection to that. And I think we just need to, I think it's the way we speak about these things that we make change, not by preaching about it. It's like, I always say, be the light. So the way you act, the way you move, the way you speak, the way you eat, all these things, allow your actions to do the talking. It's like with my food, I don't,
00:05:34
Speaker
preach to people what they should be doing or what they should eat. I'm just trying to make my food exciting and delicious and it makes them think, oh, actually, this is really delicious. This is exciting. So then that's like a silent message. And I think it's the same with always on an individual level where it's in a family or them sort of things, the way we go about our daily life, what we talked about, consistency. If you consistently do something over a matter of time, people will start noticing your family if it's your system.
00:06:02
Speaker
Oh they'll notice that and then you'll see how you look and you're thriving more within yourself and then their minds start to look like themselves.
00:06:10
Speaker
I think something that we were talking about before we kind of kicked off recording the podcast was actually people's expectation of, I've done it for two days, why don't I feel the difference? And actually, so how long does it, how long do you need to do something in order for the gut to respond? Yeah. I mean, I don't know exactly, but I always say like with all my health stuff, anything I used to try and I've done so many things even out of that work with naturopaths and holistic medicines, I always did three months minimum.
00:06:37
Speaker
minimum and then see. And you have to record these things because you forget and have a little journal with you and just write it down. I used to mark out of 10 how I felt every day. So then I would look then a week back and if it would go from a six to a seven or a five to a three in my pain, then I could go, okay, and I would write underneath what I ate that day. So then I could directly link it
00:07:00
Speaker
to those things. But it takes a little bit of time to work out what is a three, what's a five, what's a ten. And a lot of discipline as well because actually you've got to be so disciplined to do that and then wait for the sustained kind of improvement. And I find that the food and my mood is very cyclical and intertwined.
00:07:17
Speaker
So the trouble is when I'm more stressed and I don't feel great, I eat worse food. And then actually that doesn't help and I'm more, I almost use it to kind of numb myself in the evenings when I just need to chill out and slow my brain. If I'm feeling great, I'll reach for the healthier food. I'll take the time. I'll spend, you know, that lovely hour in the morning eating a lovely nutritious breakfast.
00:07:41
Speaker
when I'm in my worst times and my brain's going a hundred million miles an hour and I'm thinking all the things. I almost struggled to eat the good food. So it's a lot of discipline to say, Charlotte, don't go for your gut feeling to say, grab a sausage roll, you know, grab something that's really quick and can't be. It's going, you know, what's going to
00:08:03
Speaker
help you, you know what's going to make you feel better and sleep better. My sleep's terrible when I've had that sugary, fatty, kind of carby food and a glass of red wine and I'm like, oh, instantly feel better for a moment, feel terrible throughout the night and the next morning. And that is really sort of saying the gut is clearly something, there's an access to making sure that you're looking after yourself as well. Yes, I mean, I've been looking at too much detail for three weeks now, I've been going through the process.
00:08:32
Speaker
setting my body and the difference in my gut is massive. How are you doing Matt and Dave? I started fasting three weeks ago so I'm literally doing one meal a day and I'm incorporating vegetables, grains, nuts, pulses, herd spices, you can have chocolate in there if you want it, it's on there for 30 times a week. I have one meal a day and I have it every kind of normally about half, six, seven o'clock a night.
00:08:57
Speaker
So it varies between 23 and 24 hours fast. Now it sounds crazy, but the early days were really tough because you're detoxing. Your
Mindful Eating and Workplace Culture
00:09:05
Speaker
body goes into that ketosis stage where you detox from your sugar, the gluten, whatever's in your system. And those are the hardest days. But when I got through that, it literally, I feel totally different. My mood has improved massively. I used to be so grumpy.
00:09:19
Speaker
because I wasn't happy, so I might have been stress-eating, whatever I was doing. But now, going through the process, the discipline is massive. Kirk, you mentioned, I keep the journal of everything. How many times I go to the toilet? Exactly what I've eaten. The amount of calories I roughly think is in there. The medicine I've taken, how did I sleep? Did I enjoy that meat? Did I enjoy this podcast today? Because I did that.
00:09:40
Speaker
it's off the chart and then I collect that information for two months. I'm doing that for two months and then I'm seeing where I'm going but the benefit not just weight wise but the general feeling of my body, my body's peaceful. I feel very quiet, I feel calm and I enjoy my food. So that big bowl of food I mentioned earlier, I'm dreaming about pickle courgettes, you know, because I know tonight's we'll prep ready to go. I'm excited by it but I'll take half an hour to eat that bowl of food. I will take my time so you know I'll chew the food which again gut health,
00:10:07
Speaker
digestive. If you chew your food, you're helping your gut chew as many times as you can. And then I just sit there and enjoy it. It's quite a ceremonial process. You sit in there and you're the most luckiest person in the world with a bowl of vegetables and grains, but you fully, fully embrace and enjoy it because you know it's doing you good. And I actually like the taste of carrots again, you know, because you kind of go off it. When I go off stuff, I go off it really badly. I love you taking the time. So it's just in terms of something that I mean, I had to take
00:10:35
Speaker
couple of weeks off last year, just pretty burnt out from some intense projects. And I came back to work and one of the most
00:10:43
Speaker
It was an amazing kind of realization for me. My team watched me eat a sandwich and have a glass of water. And they all both looked at me in shock. And I was like, what do you mean? They said, I've never seen you sit and eat and finish something in one go. And I was like, I eat food all day, all the time. But what I didn't realize, it can take me two hours to eat my breakfast because I'll have a little bit and I'll get distracted. And I'll have a little bit and I'll go off and talk to that person. When I'm calm and when I actually I take the time to eat,
00:11:13
Speaker
and enjoy it and think about what I've practiced.
00:11:16
Speaker
it feels so different and it can be a delicious like chicken burger and it can be something that you're like, wow, that was a real treat. As long as it's good food and good ingredients there. But ultimately what I'd love to in the workplace is really building that culture that we get away from the mainline coffee, grab a quick biscuit, have a chocolate bar in the afternoon when you just need quick energy and it's building the time to sit and have breakfast, sit and have lunch together.
00:11:45
Speaker
I think there's an opportunity to learn from lots of cultures. If you look at Fika culture, if you look at the whole bread culture, as a nation we're probably time poor and always in the hurry to do something else. And actually what we're not learning is actually that time is so valuable for more than one reason in terms of nourishment. We all need calories in order to be able to
00:12:06
Speaker
continue about actually how we behave with our food during those times can really affect our wellbeing as well. I'm really encouraging everyone to make it a non-negotiable, to really block time out in your diary, to say, this is where I'm going to eat, you know, hydrate, have the water and value that.
00:12:23
Speaker
And I've really, really seen a change in, I mean, I've been here for 18 years. So I've seen P. lemme see go through an absolute transformation in the way that we treat mental health. I mean, over those 18 years, I've had some really difficult experiences and had to take some, you know, some serious time out. And at that point it was complete stigma. There was no talking about it. It was don't talk to Charlotte, you know, she's just not here.
00:12:51
Speaker
Now, well, the joy for me is being able to do things like this, raise the awareness, say it's actually it's more than okay to talk about our mental health because it's all on a spectrum. We've all got mental health. It's either good or it's bad. And I think the rhetoric used to be mental health is only bad mental health. I suppose what connects all of us out of the room today is actually workplace food experiences.
00:13:15
Speaker
And, you know, if I think of some statistics, so Office of National Statistics said a few years ago that 17.9 million days are lost due to sickness every single year, but actually quite scarily, 71% of people don't feel comfortable about having a conversation about mental health within the workspace as well. And for me, there's an absolute direct, there's got to be a direct correlation as you know, I think we all sit here and say the mental health conversation has definitely come forward and the stigma is less so than it used to be.
00:13:45
Speaker
which says actually workspaces have a really important part to play in how they curate their environment. So Charlotte, actually, as a PwC, you know, you are the workspace person on this podcast at the moment. How have you physically seen the spaces of PwC change to kind of help facilitate better wellbeing for your team members?
00:14:05
Speaker
Oh, it's become an intrinsic part of the design. So I've actually had the joy of being part of many of the designs or construction projects along the years. And now our teams will absolutely think of the environment about how can you be your best self? We've got quiet areas, we've got more vibrant areas, we've got areas where people will come together, dine, you know, break out together.
00:14:31
Speaker
but we're really valuing. If you need that quiet space, if actually it's more of a green environment, if it is escaping to our edible garden, which we've just gone and had a look at. Now, for me, it was champion having those spaces where you can take a break from what's a really, you know, vibrant but intense world that we work in.
00:14:48
Speaker
And everything has to be done very fast. It's very important, but it's actually really important to remember that we're all really human beings and we can't operate as robots to be high performers. And that's a big thing for us is being high performers, all of us.
00:15:05
Speaker
how can we do that without going and having an amazing salad bowl or having virtual music for breakfast or, you know, it's such a brilliant part if we can all make sure that we take a break for each other. Because I think my team take care of me and say, do you think you maybe should take a break now? I'm like, OK. But if we do that for each other and say, should we go to lunch together, then actually we will create this culture where the magic will happen.
00:15:33
Speaker
I think we've got different generations coming through now actually and I think of like the millennial, the baby boomer, you know, we all, I'm the millennial, just, we all kind of live a certain way and actually we've got generations now that are forcing us to think differently as well, you know, maybe exploring that in terms of what the impacts that we're seeing in those different generations and what their demands of more wellbeing perspective.
00:15:56
Speaker
Yeah, of course, I think in terms of let's take chefs, for instance, I mean, from when I started training when I was 16 to now I'm 36, seeing the change in that in the younger generation now, the 20 year olds coming through that want to cook to when I was 20.
00:16:13
Speaker
you know, and the difference is huge, but it's not about, I hear it a lot, and you know, I've heard the chef say, well, you know, well, I didn't get, you know, I didn't get that, or it wasn't like, I just had to get on with it. And it's like, it's like, no, we have to change, we have to be the change makers.
00:16:28
Speaker
We have to be the ones that I'm always thinking what it's going to be like in 10 years. What can I do? You know, I'm open a restaurant a month and I'm putting around a wellness package for all my staff. So we will have to do certain things at certain times. And that's it. It's like, we'll have to do a sound meditation twice a week. We'll have to do this. I'm putting in a 15 minute visualization course before every service. We'll all sit down and we'll visualize and we'll do gratitude. And then it's like,
00:16:55
Speaker
How do we make change? We have to be the light. So we're like, that's how we do it. And then it moves forward. How can we bring that into our kitchens? I mean, I think there's a lot too. What's the food that actually chefs tend to eat or when do you guys eat actually in the kitchen? I mean, our teams are cooking beautiful food for our clients, for our people, but actually, I think a huge important thing for us as a partnership is saying, what are we doing for our teams?
00:17:24
Speaker
because if they're feeling great, if they're actually well, if they're being able to high-perform and eat the great food that they're having, surely that's so important to the dishes they're creating? That thing comes down to environment as well. It's not always about the food, it's about the environment they're working in, you know, because as Cope said, I'm a bit older than everyone else, but all those years ago, it was terrible. We know that, but that's the kitchen, but that's across any sector, whatever work we do. But I think now what you're seeing is more diverse, more inclusive,
00:17:52
Speaker
environments need
Creating Supportive Work Environments
00:17:53
Speaker
to be better. And I think that's what we need to look at. The kitchens, for example, is in a good working order, you know, and there's harmony in that kitchen, chefs are happy, teams are happy because they know, they know they've got a great environment to work in. So that's really important to me. It's not always about the food, food plays a massive part, but I think, yeah, get the environment right, create the culture, the beginning of the journey.
00:18:12
Speaker
which is amazing, you know, create that culture that, yes, we will make time because it's too easy to say, we're going to have a break. People don't do it. You need to start somewhere, embed it and that culture will follow. It will happen. But you need to be quiet. Sometimes you need to be quiet. Not tough of it, but you really need to throw in. It needs discipline. It needs discipline. Again, we mentioned earlier, you've got otherwise
00:18:32
Speaker
You can do it three out of five times. You might do it once a week. You might do whatever. So I think just start from the basics. We all still talk about hydration and stuff like that. Start from the very basics. Make sure they've got the basic needs to work in the environment they're in. And that includes front house, back house, wherever we're talking about. It's just really important to get that right for me. Because I worked in many, many operations and years and seen some terrible ones. But we moved on. You know, we're thinking about, you know, the whole kind of set up of an office now is more there's plants everywhere. So it's kind of the idea is it's
00:19:01
Speaker
It's making it more, it's nice to come to work. I used to get told when I had a particular role that I had, I was literally told, I don't want somebody who goes to the gym because they wanted me to be completely wedded to the work, to the project, to everything. And don't get me wrong, we were talking about what it's like to grow up in your career and how much you can put in that extra time and commitment and actually there's a real balance between the wellness, but actually investing in your career. And for me, I think I wouldn't have got to where I am if I hadn't
00:19:31
Speaker
put in all of that passion and commitment. But now it's a huge part for me to start my day with exercise, with the right food and really give myself my best part of my day. That's not selfish. It means I come to work as my best person. Whereas I used to completely reverse that and be at work as early as I could, eat rubbish food, not sleep.
00:19:55
Speaker
Making sure everyone else is all right. Yeah. I made sure every project was delivered, every work piece was done, and then I was kind of dying of death, so I'm pretty at home. There's some real interesting kind of pieces in there. I think movement is one. So we know that movement is the mental health awareness theme for this year, which is really exciting. And Charlotte, I'm going to ask you in a second about how PwC are probably taking that in a different angle, but actually physical movement itself, you know, in the, in the industries that we live, you know, working in facilities or working
00:20:24
Speaker
And in the kitchens, et cetera, you're on your feet a lot, et cetera. But that also is one type of movement. What else should people be doing to make sure movement forms part of their day, to make sure that they're keeping themselves to be as best as they can? Things on top of movement as well as movement. I honestly think like
00:20:44
Speaker
You know, I think Andy talked about fasting and what's that he's basically saying that it's give him a lot of gratitude because when he gets to that food, he's grateful because he's more conscious because he's realized actually how lucky he is to get to that food because he's actually waited. I think gratitude is such a big one.
00:21:03
Speaker
For me, mental, I used to write, you know, like when I was very sick, I used to write, because especially when you feel ill all the time, it's so easy to be in a hole where like, it's not fair, like why me? So I used to write like five things on my wardrobe before I went to sleep at night. And that could just be, I've got a warm bed. Like how, if we look at the world now, like we are so lucky that we have a warm bed at night, we get to drink water.
00:21:25
Speaker
We have a shower, right? We're so like consumer driven and especially if we're ambitious, we always want more. We always want the next thing. And we need to just rein it back in and go, actually, I'm so lucky. I think for mental health, that with exercise is one of the best things I would say. And I think you want to do it then. You mentioned consistency and gratitude. You feel you want to do the exercise because you've been good to yourself. You know, being good to yourself.
00:21:54
Speaker
difficult to do. But when you find that discipline and you appreciate what you've got, you'll find yourself have that extra energy. You'll find the extra energy to you know what, just going to go for half an hour walk or something. What you don't want to do is put pressure on people because nobody likes to be told what to do because that puts extra pressure on them and it could send them the opposite way. What you want to try and do is just encourage simplicity. I don't think it's all it is about movement. I get it. But sometimes it's your mindset. If you're happy in your mindset, you'll get out of it what you need to get out of. And I think for me personally,
00:22:21
Speaker
I have to stick to that. I have to be disciplined and I have to cut other things out of my life because I'm grateful I've got. But if I want to stay on this journey and keep going and flushing, I will make some big decisions in terms of diet and stuff like that. And I'll still be happy because I know where it takes me. I know the road I'm on at the moment. When you go on that journey, you'll find a happy place. And that gives you the confidence to kick off with whatever else comes in. Just find a starting point. Find a starting point.
00:22:45
Speaker
I always say, just start with water, you know, and then you move on from there. So all kinds of intellect isn't it? The food, the water, we talked about that, but it's a wonderful journey to go on. It's a wonderful journey to go on, but you've got to, you just, it's the pressure point. Just don't put pressure on yourself, just start somewhere. Don't put pressure on yourself, because it's not about just other people, but I got into a phase because I picked up strength training about a year ago. Never done it before and didn't think, I was scared of the gym. Genuinely didn't know what to do. It might intimidate an experience. It really was.
00:23:14
Speaker
Now I love it. It's one hour. I can't think of anything else because it's really hard. But also I had to find the balance between doing it six days a week and jogging to the gym and jogging back. And I was in bed by 7.30. I was exhausted. And I had to be really kind to myself and say, I'm not an athlete.
00:23:31
Speaker
never going to be an athlete. I just need to go four times a week and maybe jog on a Sunday and do it within balance of all the other things that fit into my life. But I am happiest when my life is simple, when I've got the really simple things that I can go for a walk, have the time. But movement also helps with my stress hugely. And last night I went out for a run.
00:23:56
Speaker
was just all in my head and things were going around and I was thinking about today and I was like I want it to be amazing. I was like just get my trainers on out the door and I find I can work through my anxiety through the steps and when I can push myself with my running it genuinely physically comes out of me and my thoughts all kind of seems to realign and they're not all
00:24:21
Speaker
The rumble does. It's definitely changed though because I think that quite often in a workspace environment you can expect that you've got to sit at a desk for nine hours a day and that's it and you've got to be creative and come up with everything and I think there's a permission now. Yes. It's just naturally granted to say actually just go get up and do that walk, have that agility because actually not everybody works and is different and so therefore it's really important that we create that space. I suppose my question to yourselves is I know that one of the things that you created was kitchen talks
00:24:49
Speaker
as a way in which you encourage conversations around these kind of things. Can you just give us a bit of insight into that and the difference that's made within the workspace? Yeah, absolutely. And it kind of leads onto that and our different look at movement as the theme. So what we want to create is a movement around mental health and using that to open up the conversations. And as much as we're talking about how can we improve our mental health and how can food featuring that and all the great habits, we really want to create a movement that actually
00:25:18
Speaker
It's okay to talk about that mental health. We've done a series of videos in my department with our leadership. So I do think it has to come from the top. We are a hierarchical organization. And once you've got your leaders speaking out and sharing their mental health journeys, it does make it okay for others to talk about it. So we've really been emphasizing people sharing their stories.
00:25:44
Speaker
just as part of who they are. It doesn't have to be that you're good, bad, or different. You can absolutely be a whole person and have those ebbs and flows. Throughout your day, you might have a bad moment. So yeah, the movement for us is very much around opening up those conversations. But Kitchen Table Talks was really looking at food as an enabler for conversations. So the premise is around sort of come together and make bread.
00:26:13
Speaker
Zandi and I have done a kitchen table talks together and we did it for our leadership team. The whole idea is to take them out of that busy workplace, get your hands in the flour, just make a simple bread together. It's really funny watching people do it well, not do it well, kind of get competitive over it. I feel uncomfortable as well. They get really competitive about, I want my bread to be the best bread.
00:26:38
Speaker
And what I will do is weave in little bits about my story and start talking about mental health and you get the uncomfortable laughs and some of the jokes and it's all non-alcoholic as well. So I'm very adamant that it's all non-alcoholic for the benefits that that will have for our mental health about cutting out or cutting down. And then we go into a room and have a family style sharing meal.
00:27:05
Speaker
And that sitting around a family table, big bowls of delicious food, very simple, nutritious, nothing fancy. I love a beautiful fancy plate of food, but ultimately a big pie, big kind of salad bowl, or you know, it's just passing it from person to person. It's deliberate, you've got to ask someone, can you pass me that? Or can you pass me the butter? Or can you pass me? Then you just get this gentle element of people start opening up. And I think,
00:27:34
Speaker
you know, when you sat around your kitchen table with your family or, you know, Christmas or something else, those celebrations, that's when you start to get this real joy of people going, oh, I've got this hobby or learning things about each other. I did it with a group of our engineers.
00:27:55
Speaker
Like just to be, you know, not to be cliche, but not the typical group of people to start talking about the feelings. Honestly, once it really got into it, they learned things about each other that you would never imagine would come up. That was purely food as an enabler for the conversation. Food is so powerful. And actually, Kirk, if I think about plates being plant-based, you must get people turned up sometimes and not having any idea what they're turning up to and potentially expecting a steak dinner, et cetera.
Inclusive Dining and Childhood Food Perceptions
00:28:25
Speaker
and then they have to go on this whole learning journey of food with what you do. Do you ever get that? And then what are some people's reactions around that? Yeah, a lot because...
00:28:35
Speaker
You know, like I spoke before, I don't really like the kind of preachiness of labels, especially with food. I want my food to be inclusive to everyone and food is so personal. So, you know, 80% of people that actually come to plates eat meat and fish. And that's, you know, that's great. I'm hopefully just showing them or enlightening them that they could eat maybe, you know, a little bit of extra veg on the weekend, you know, and cut down a little bit on the meat and fish if that's, you know,
00:29:06
Speaker
So for me, it's like, it's interesting when say like, a partner brings their wife, who's veggie, and the husband's a big like bodybuilder, and he's kind of just brought her for her, he's basically just booked for her. And then at the end, he's almost like hugging me going, I never thought I could be full. You know, like I never thought this I never thought it could be like creamy or rich or whatever. And I'm like,
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's, you know, that's what I'm trying to show. That's the message for the food, you know, I'm trying to just show like food inspired through the earth. That is got nutritional profile, but it's also exciting food in the day, you know, like, I think that's what we're going to do with the with making food wholesome and healthy, whatever people eat with their eyes, whatever, you know, like if you put some dry salad leaves on a bowl, like
00:29:58
Speaker
People are like, I don't want to eat that. And the smell as well, we brought in some herbs from the garden. It's like the smell was incredible. So it's how we articulate that. And that's what I've spent the last seven years on in terms of places. I've learned that actually food is very psychological. And if we can create a genre of cooking that people in their mind don't, they book and they don't even know that it's plant-based or think it is, but they've gone, I want to eat that. Sounds delicious. Boom. They're there. They're there already. And they're like,
00:30:28
Speaker
Oh, at the end, oh, I didn't realize that it's all I didn't have eaten it all. I didn't even know. So like my job is to make that tomato dish as sexy as that scallop dish. Yeah. Or as exciting as that beef Wellington. Right. That people so like nostalgically driven towards like, how can I make my dishes more exciting and interesting than that? And that's the level that we work at. And, you know, there's been lots of failures, but it's an it's an evolution and it's a journey and it's an exciting one.
00:30:58
Speaker
I think something you said there and probably a little bit off topic is nostalgia and how much some of our food behaviours all start. And I can see you looking at me really intensely now, start so young and we don't realise it. And if I think of my journey, food was a reward. I got brought up, you know, not very much. Mum and dad always used to go shopping on a Monday because my dad had Mondays off from work. And that was the exciting day in the house because that was when there was something
00:31:24
Speaker
in the house that was more than just the absolute basics that we would get. And also any time anything happened, we were rewarded through food, but it was never good food. You know, it was always a donut, a cake or something. Yeah. It's like, how many of you had birthday parties, you know, when you were six or seven at McDonald's? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean.
00:31:48
Speaker
When you actually look at it, it's crazy, right? So actually it's a programming through society that we've actually been susceptible to and through, depending on how our parents brought us up, what we got put in our mouth first. Think about it this way, from when you're born, if you never tried sugar until you were 10.
00:32:06
Speaker
Imagine, right, your palate would be completely different. If you tried raw pure cacao, which is what chocolate's made of, but if you take a Snickers, for instance, it's like 6% cacao and the rest of it's just sugar and loads of rubbish, our palates had that from like we were a kid. So when we have the purest fingers, oh, that's disgusting. Actually, we need to not blame the ingredients, blame ourselves. And it's about taking accountability as well and looking at things and going, okay,
00:32:32
Speaker
I understand that now, right? And obviously, it depends where our parents were at. I remember my mom and dad, they were so busy and sometimes just throw things in the oven. And it depends if you're a single mother and it's not anybody's fault because we're not aware of it. And also, money's got a big pot to play in it, right? But also, I think with the food thing is, because I've looked at this and people go, it's too expensive to eat like that. And I'm like,
00:33:00
Speaker
If you actually look how much a McDonald's is now on KFC, you're talking about £89 or Domino's Pizza. It's not cheap to eat rubbish food anymore. It's actually not the money. It's the education of what to do with the foods and how to cook it.
00:33:14
Speaker
Because we're all in this industry, we're in this bubble. We think everyone knows how to make a broccoli soup or whatever. They don't. They don't know how to do it. No idea. Because I can say... Well, it's scary. It's quite intimidating. What would you tell me to cook if I could get excited about vegetables at home that isn't intimidating?
00:33:33
Speaker
So I just jump in quickly, but when you sit there, reset, you can reset your palate. You can't, you can't. I find it out already. You're fasting, you'll know. Yeah, you find yourself, wow, things taste different. Oh, I didn't know I was addicted to that. Your brain goes, yeah. Oh, I want, I want that, I want that thing that you've normally always, you know, if you, if you, when you walk to work tomorrow, look at how many people go to Prat and get the coffee and carry on, Prat goes coffee and carry on, because they've programmed themselves. I can't work unless I've had my coffee. No, you just haven't took accountability, gone, actually,
00:34:03
Speaker
I can work without the coffee, and I'm not going to do it this week. I'm so habitual about my food, whether it's treats or what I'm rewarded myself for, or I definitely mentally crave something before I've thought about why do I want that? It's 100% emotional. I'm such an emotional. A lot of us are. What can we do there? If I just think about, and they're going to answer your question about what they're going to change as well. Exactly. I want a recipe. But if you think about any workplace celebration,
00:34:31
Speaker
You walk around probably, if we were to walk around the floors here or in our office, it's cake, it's sweets, et cetera. How do we change? That's what we need, you know, to be a game changer. We've got to change that culture that actually rewards sugar base. And so what can we do to kind of make things, people kind of move away from that?
00:34:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's so tough. I think when you, it's interesting, when you, when somebody sees you like eating, I don't know, a salad or a clean piece of, let's say fish with lots of healthy ingredients around it, people are like, Oh, you want to diet? Yeah. And again, it's a programming. No, that's what I'm treating myself. This should be normal, right?
00:35:11
Speaker
So it's like, it's how we get to the mass market of like all the things that are around us, you know, like Greg's has to go, McDonald's has to go, all these things have to be replaced.
Challenges with Food Corporations vs. Small Businesses
00:35:21
Speaker
And at the end of the day, unfortunately, that beast is a big beast. And I don't know how that's going to be. I think us little independent businesses our own sort of way have to just do our part. And if we can influence 10 people every week or whatever. I think from that point, we are part of the high street, you know, the buildings we work in, we're part of the high street there.
00:35:41
Speaker
For me, I think it's the educational piece again. I think it's great when we send all this stuff out, but what's even better is when we've got physical presence. It could be a chef, it could be somebody, but you're doing something. I love the idea of sharing food. You know, I'd love to see more sharing food where you come along as a chef there, but you're going to have a table of six out of 10, but you're going to sit down and eat your food.
00:36:01
Speaker
That's, you can talk through what you're having. So everyone's kind of gone on the journey together. As you said, peer pressure is awful. You know, peer pressure or something like, oh, we're going to have that today. It's Friday. You know, then you break whatever you're doing. So I think, yeah, for me, I'd like to see more presence from chefs, especially in the workplace, just being around, um, doing demonstrations, whatever that looks like, you know, because they know what they're doing, you know, and they understand the food a bit more. And again, it creates a hive of activity, creates inspiration.
00:36:28
Speaker
You know, crepes like this, you can share this fish. It's that mixture between the customer and who's going to eat it and who's created it. You're not hiding away. I get the joy of whether the chef's like it or not, but I get the joy going into the kitchen and kind of being like, oh, what are you making? And I was tasting something I'm cooking today and yesterday I went in and I got handed like a little bit of fresh baked focaccia. It's like, I'll try a bit of that. I mean, honestly, like the joy I get from being able to kind of walk around and hear the creativity.
00:36:55
Speaker
but the more our teams can go out and the chefs can connect with our people and really tell them why should they eat what's on that salad bar, what's gone into that dish, why have they picked those beans over actually that it's a 50% meat, 50% beans actually in a burger. We can do so much better and that competing with the high street
00:37:16
Speaker
getting people away from that quick and really quite poor quality food. Our people love a chicken katsu. I mean, don't get me wrong. If I could just campaign, don't eat katsu in sandwiches, go to the salad bar. So if I've got one challenge to the chef teams and for me to do for our people is to go, don't pick that fried chicken and chips. You are going to feel incredible if you have
00:37:43
Speaker
you know all of these 30 parts from this salad bowl that we can create you and that's the journey we're absolutely going on together. But then I think it's also you have to then take those foods that you love like a chicken katsu or whatever and it's it's with that buttery crumb and you can't just go oh here's some beetroot some some carrots you have to then make no you have to we've made a katsu dressing yeah we've got this this you know you see you're giving them the thing that they want in the mind
00:38:11
Speaker
but you're delivering them something different. We did that with a Caesar salad. It's a psychological thing, right? We did a Caesar salad with a plain grilled chicken. Oh, the chicken can be steamed. And then they put the crumb chicken on it. I loved it. But at least it was a combination. Well, the crumb could be like lots of crispy quinoa on top of the steamed chicken or whatever with a katsu sauce. But I think what, no, no, but what you were saying there is it all goes down to cooking fresh and therefore what's going into the dish. And that's the bit that we don't realise quite often is if you go out other places,
00:38:41
Speaker
what you're actually eating. I think we had the conversation about turning over labels, etc. And therefore, bread isn't something that should be feared.
00:38:49
Speaker
if it's made properly. Andy, I think that's probably something that you're quite passionate about. Yeah. 100% good bread's great for the girl. We know that. You know, if it's made fresh and it's not negotiable for us in our business that we're making some form of bread because you take away all this stuff. If you look at a loaf of bread, bread's got to be affordable for everyone. We know that. But if you look at that label, it's quite scary and you're wondering what does that actually do to that product? But when you make it,
00:39:13
Speaker
free-based ingredients and then you add maybe you add some fresh herbs or vegetables different. So it's quite a straightforward thing. Fresh bread is the easiest thing in the world to make. It's something as a business you know that we are I don't know how many bakers we've got now but we trained since last year probably about 450 maybe more than that across the UK. So we're encouraging again that creates interest it creates a story behind it then he goes into local regional suppliers like Wildfire
00:39:39
Speaker
So again, it's a whole story there right away, back to the source of the product to the customer gets it. So it's scary at first to make bread because people might get it wrong, but just give it a go. And I think it's really important if we tell that story to the customer.
00:39:54
Speaker
then the chefs are going to influence change. And I think sometimes you talk about the cats, I would learn, I think this is going to be controversial, but sometimes to make a difference, you have to make a difference and you have to take something away. Now you do, for change to happen, we go down many routes with this one, but to change to happen sometimes, you have to make a conscious decision, if we want this to happen,
00:40:19
Speaker
We agree as a team and then we move forward because you can, what comes out of that can be wonderful. You can find new ideas and not Kurt mentioned there about the Steak Chicken and Quinoa. Love that idea, by the way. You know, so it's little things like that, not being scared of change. And being brave. And being brave, not being scared of the change. You've got to go where it scares you.
00:40:37
Speaker
You're going to make the change where it feels because we, again, we programmed to do a certain thing like, oh, but if we take that, if we take that crispy chicken burger off, all our clients are going to disappear instead of going, actually, we're going to make something that's better than this chicken burger. And we're actually going to double our clients.
00:40:52
Speaker
and we're going to, we might struggle at the start, but we're going to stick to our guns and everyone is aligned with it and we're going to make impact and over the five-year period it's going to change the game. So it's just making that jump and it's scary, right? It's got to be brave. We've talked about it for a long time and it's very standard to go, let's have a sandwich lunch. Everybody knows what a sandwich lunch is. It's what, you know, that's how the workplace operates.
00:41:18
Speaker
We just want to change that. We want to say the anti-sandwich lunch. Just trust us. Tell us how many people you've got. Let our chefs create you an amazing menu that's going to be sustainable. It's going to be delicious. It's going to give you that sustained energy. It's going to be a talking point as well. Actually, if we can get our people and our clients going, wow, what is that? That smells fantastic. That tastes really different.
00:41:44
Speaker
and give them the stories behind the food. What an amazing break to stop talking about, you know, all the projects and sort of stressful elements and just act as people and say, if you tasted a bit of that, that was delicious. I think that's just all about utilizing food to its ultimate potential.
Food as Medicine and Personal Health Journeys
00:42:02
Speaker
And I suppose probably the last bit that we're going to talk about today was the power of food is medicine.
00:42:06
Speaker
which I think is a really new conversation that some people have been practising for a while, but actually I feel that people are talking about it now. And, Kirk, you've got a really personal journey with food and being medicine for you, and I was just hoping you might be able to share that with a little bit of the listeners and what that's meant for your journey over the last 10 years.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's so powerful. I think like we spoke before about chefs kind of cooking this beautiful food and then not really caring about themselves. And that was like a real awakening moment for me when I became very, very sick.
00:42:41
Speaker
is that i've been put all this passion and energy and i'm i'm obsessed to be the best so i would just like i'll be in at six in the morning i get home at 2am um i drink i have a few um red bulls um i'd eat a donna kebab at 2am or some chicken wings be very honest now and i go to bed
00:42:59
Speaker
I'd wake up four or five hours late and it'd be straight. And I would work in a two mission store restaurant where, you know, you know, I'm going to be honest, you won't wake up nice people. They were not nice. There was a lot of bullying going on. There's a lot of stress. So that on itself is really, really bad. And I just thought, this doesn't make sense. So I'm putting all this effort in for someone that I'm never even going to meet.
00:43:20
Speaker
And then I'm destroying myself. It doesn't make any sense. So when I had to stop working for 18 months and I moved back into my parents' house at North, I started to reverse the energy and I put in the same passion and energy into myself. You know, it's like, Andy will know, in kitchens 10 years ago, the staff food used to be horrendous. You know, you used to make spike bowl one day, and then with the leftover minty mate shepherd's pie, and the leftover minty mate lasagna, this is what you used to, you know, you get a tin of baked beans and some walnuts and spread.
00:43:50
Speaker
And when you look at that and you go, Jesus, no wonder. And for me, fast-forwarding Lyme disease, when I look at it now, it was just the last trigger that was just like, Kirk, stop disrespecting me like this. I'm going to, oh, I ain't going to keep working for you, like an internal dialogue in my body that you can't keep treating yourself like this.
00:44:12
Speaker
And then that's when I started to read about the gut. And this is 10 years ago, and I was like, wow, because I was severely riddled with chronic pain everywhere. I used to wake up basically with a hangover every single day for years, and I stopped all alcohol then. Never drank anything. I used to wake up the hangover. So that's when I started to look at the real importance of food.
00:44:37
Speaker
And yeah, it's so much, you know, it's the core of everything. And I think it's, you know, it's, I think, if I could say one thing to people that's powerful is that prevention is the best thing. And like, I don't think people realize how, like, if you don't have your health, you are nothing. You can have $65 billion in the bank account, but if you're real, it don't mean anything. If you'd have given me 10 million pounds,
00:45:04
Speaker
seven years ago, I was like, I don't care, mate. I want this to stop. I want to stop feeling so ill. So I think it's like putting the effort. If you still feel healthy now and you feel great, just maybe go, okay, what can I change? Maybe they can add in another healthy habit. We can't just live in
00:45:25
Speaker
You know, we've got to enjoy ourselves as well and do some things. You know, like I said, you know, if you eat a burger now and again, it's fine. But I think just taking that effort for prevention and, you know, going, OK, I'm going to stick, I'm going to go to the gym twice a week and I'm not, you know, it's not negotiable. Where do you find, so discipline is a word that you said probably a few times today, and that's something that's hard to come by for a lot of people.
00:45:50
Speaker
We live in a distracted world, everything you sell is not to be disciplined because nobody makes money if we're disciplined because we're not doing what they want us to do as consumers. How have you managed to cut through that and find discipline and really hold it?
00:46:04
Speaker
I was just so sick of feeling ill. So it was like disciplines the only way like I was on for six years, I was on high opioid medication because my pain was so bad. And when I started to read about what opioids were doing, I was like, Oh my God, like I need to get off that even though I just listened to my doctor, they said, Oh, they find they're not a very strong drug and all this sort of stuff.
00:46:23
Speaker
And I was like, so my discipline was like, I'm going to get off this. And I was like always scoping it down, changing things. I just was like, I was prepared to sacrifice anything to feel better. If you said to me, you can never go on holiday ever again for the rest of your life, but you can have your, but like, you can feel better. I would have done it. Like I would sacrifice everything because all I wanted to do was feel better. So I think that's where the discipline comes from. And I think now we're living in a world now with so much medication.
00:46:53
Speaker
And I'm not saying all medication's bad for a period of time. If someone's really struggling, it helps them. But I think that's what's masking us to go in to the deep-rooted journey within ourselves to heal because they're plasters. And it's like, okay, I've got this now and I take this medication, that's me done. I always say this, when people get diagnosed, it's
00:47:17
Speaker
they think it's almost like the lid shut. And I always say reverse it, the lid's open. Do you know what? I sat in a taxi. Now's your time to find out and do the work. I sat in a taxi a while ago with a taxi driver. I don't know how we got on the conversation of food. And he was 65 and being diagnosed diabetic. And his doctor's response was, I'm just going to give you some pills, basically. And he was just like, no, I'm not having that.
00:47:44
Speaker
And this is a proper chap that you would not expect who got on the internet and genuinely did research. And he reverses diabetes all through food. But the easy option for somebody was to medicate and to kind of not consider actually the power of food. I think.
00:48:00
Speaker
that's the bit about food is medicine. And I think we've got to help people understand potentially the power of it and how much of a difference it can make. Yeah. And I think we have to stop, you know, like it might sound harsh, but you have to take accountability. Like you have to go, all right, I'm not doing, I'm not living like this anymore. I don't want to take that anymore. And I want to make change for myself. And at the end of the day, it comes down to us, like your parents, your best friends, they can help you. But like the end of the day, all comes down to you.
00:48:29
Speaker
It's a really powerful place to kind of end on, I suppose. It does come down to you and Andy, I think we've had those conversations personally together before that we are the only people that can make change in our lives. Yeah, I mean, someone said to me my original training years ago when I was going on travelling somewhere, said to me, you've got a lovely running machine, a lovely bike, you've got the house, you've got everything else.
00:48:50
Speaker
But you're moaning about paying money towards the gym to invest in your body. And it kind of hit, because people, you go and buy, you know, whatever you buy, but you won't spend the money to invest in yourself. And I might not have explained it properly there. But for me, that meant, you're right. Why do I need that? If I invest this money now here, it's going to give me a better future. And I think that kind of triggered a lot for me. I always think about it. Do I need to buy a parachute? Or can I?
00:49:12
Speaker
spend that money on water and do it without the trainers or something to go running. I don't know. So I think very different than I did 10 years ago. I think the investment in yourself, you have to be selfish to yourself sometimes. You have to make time to do what you need to do. And I show you mentioned earlier, you have to make time to do it. You have to factor into your day because you are the most important person in this world. Even if you've got family, I get that. And I understand that if you look after you, everything else stays care of yourself. There's that bit in the plane where they say you put your own life mask on before you help anybody else.
00:49:41
Speaker
And my old neighbour Bob said to me, what is it with all of us people? We MOT our cars every single year without fail, but we don't do that to ourselves and nobody can drive the car. We have to drive the car, so therefore why do we invest all that in another object rather than actually ourselves? I had to do that with my mental health because my
00:50:00
Speaker
I literally came to the point different from the pain and from a health perspective, but actually it was my body stopped and I couldn't carry on because I was pushing through and pushing through and pushing through and putting myself last. So I mastered. I probably didn't understand it myself. I didn't know all the things I know now. Nobody talked about it.
00:50:22
Speaker
I just thought it was a normal thing that at work, you, that's how you feel. If you're going to be high performing, if you're going to work hard, you just push through. I thought everybody was going off and having a cry in the toilets or, you know, not being able to sleep or just kind of let's have 10 coffees a day and you'll be fine. It's not a problem until my body stopped me, my mind and my body. I had to take that break.
00:50:49
Speaker
And it took a couple of years after, actually, for me really to learn that I had to put myself first. And I'm the only person that can say, I am going to do this. I'm going to invest in good food. You know, I feel very privileged that I can go out and spend the money on really good quality ingredients. I can afford the gym. I can afford these things.
00:51:10
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't cost anything to go out for a run. We really can build movement and good food into our lives for not a lot of investment. But if you're lucky enough to be able to invest time, and it is selfish, but selfish in a really positive way to say, if I can be well, long-term, it's not that quick fix because I think we're all taught and it can be the negative side to say what works for me right now in this very moment, what's going to make me feel
00:51:39
Speaker
different energised right now, but we're not thinking about 10, 20, 30 years' time. And all of us talking about this now, it's like, what am I investing in my future? It's not just what we eat today, it's how we're going to feel when we're 50, when we're 60, when we're 70. And that's a real privilege, I think. So Charlotte, you probably set up my last question really nicely there, is that we're all learning and we're all on journeys. And I suppose I'd love to know from all of you,
00:52:08
Speaker
What would you tell your younger self now as to be another coach but for moving forward? So, Andy, what would you tell your younger self? I think I'd tell myself to listen to my grandparents more, living with my grandparents for quite a while.
00:52:22
Speaker
They ate really well. They ate really well. There was always good quality produce, small portions, but they grazed throughout the day and they always said to me, just follow us, follow what we do. You know, they were very slender, they were very healthy and fit. You know, we're talking 40 or five years ago, but I wish I'd listened because I think my diet over 20 years has been terrible. You know, I don't think I ate a free meal today at all. So I would tell myself, listen,
00:52:48
Speaker
find something you like and stake it. We talked about consistency a lot today and I wish I'd been more consistent with my eating over the years because it kind of, especially in kitchens, you just, you don't stick to a plan. So yeah, I'll tell myself just to, I'm being a bit more curious with food. I think, you know, sometimes you stick to what you know, but I wish I'd been a bit more curious around the whole protein part but I'm just sticking to the food that, you know, I thought was safe.
00:53:16
Speaker
He's like your ancestors, we say. Yeah, I think you're not wrong there. And I think protein is a whole big conversation about the importance of it in later life as well. And while it might not be an essential now, what you do now is probably going to affect that as we grow older, as the older people. Charlotte, what about yourself? I think for me, it really, when you post this question to us, firstly, I think the environment wasn't ready for it. So when I was 18, which was a few years ago,
00:53:43
Speaker
The culture and the environment wasn't ready for me to prioritize my wellness, but if I could go back, sleep would be a huge thing for me. It's always been a problem, but I also didn't put a lot of effort into it. And I think for me, the discipline really has to come into sleep and then valuing the exercise. I didn't think I could do it. I was scared of it and I didn't prioritize it, but the joy I get from
00:54:11
Speaker
Having the strength outside of work as well is really amazing. So not just having my identity purely rooted in the workplace, actually going into the gym and going, my identity has led to, you know, can I go up five kilos? You know, can I stick another plate on that bar? That's really empowering and really exciting. So I wish I'd have started that earlier. That's pretty impressive. I think definitely
00:54:36
Speaker
from a sleep hygiene perspective, we do not realise the impact of that. I was listening to something the other day where actually how our sleep patterns work and they were saying that shift workers have a shorter lifespan because of their sleep patterns. And I think that's just incredible that probably sleep is something that we all don't talk enough about. Maybe that's for another podcast. What about yourself, Kirk? I think what I'd say to my younger self was, I think we spoke about this before, but I would definitely wish I'd have been more selfish.
00:55:04
Speaker
I wish I'd have made more decisions for myself rather than making decisions to make other people happy or just because I wanted to hang around with those people. Yeah, just be more selfish, put yourself first, do what's right for you because actually,
00:55:24
Speaker
I think that's the kindest thing you can do to the people around you because if you don't then you're unhappy and then that's the domino effect to them. Actually when we think about selfishness it's not actually selfish. If you put yourself first you're a better person than the people you love so it's actually a kindest thing you could probably do. So yeah just I would have been way more selfish
00:55:45
Speaker
I put my health first, obviously, biggest lesson I've ever learned in my life. I put my health first before everything else, and that's not just food, that's about the people that you are around, your circle, friends and family, and be more strong-minded. I think that's really powerful, and I think the whole bit is everybody's talked about prioritising themselves.
00:56:06
Speaker
and taking a different alternative view of the word selfish. But to your point, if you don't look after yourself now, you're not going to be well enough to look after anybody in the future. So we need to kind of make sure we're prioritizing as well. But by doing that, what you actually do is give everyone else permission to look after themselves. So I think you turn out on your head and what you talked about leading your teams and saying this is a non-negotiable for us in plates, that this is how we're going to run our service.
00:56:32
Speaker
by you doing that and studying it from the top, by me taking care of myself and saying, actually, I'm going to go to the gym. I lead the way for my team to say, can I go to the gym? Absolutely. Please do go home at a reasonable time. Let's go to lunch together. So actually, by us looking after ourselves, giving that permission to everybody else to do it is what's going to make the culture completely different.
00:56:54
Speaker
So there we have it. We've all just got to go and leave this room today. Send the example. We've got green juice and green food waiting for us to make sure we're all energised. But I just want to say thank you so much. You've been a really interesting guest to have and it's been really fantastic listening to some of your stories and your personal kind of shared experiences. So thank you. And if you want to hear from more, please do tune in to FYI the Backstory podcast.