Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
What Cartridge and Caliber Is Right For Hunting – Jaden Miller
331 Plays2 months ago
This week Drew has Jaden Miller from West Elk Precision on the Tricer Podcast. Jaden has been building rifle for hunting and competitions for a long time and has lots of experience behind a rifle. Drew and Jaden dive deep into long range hunting and bullets. They talk about calibers for hunting and why Drew likes 30 caliber and Jaden leans toward smaller calibers. There is a lot of information packed into this one hour podcast that you don’t want to miss.
JADEN MILLER
WEST ELK PRECISION
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/west_elk_precision/
TRICER USA
Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Opening Prayer
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer Podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners. We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Excitement for Hunting Topics
00:00:23
Speaker
Dude, I am super excited for this one. We're going to be talking everything kind of long range hunting, mule deer, custom rifles. It is going to be a fun podcast.
Guest Introduction: Jaden Miller
00:00:34
Speaker
I have Jaden Miller on the podcast. Jaden, how are you doing? Good. How are you doing? I'm doing great, dude. I'm excited to have you on. We've been talking for like, we did a whole podcast just talking before the stand podcast. I had to press record. So dude, um Tell us about you, tell us about your company, tell us
West Oak Precision & Custom Rifles
00:00:54
Speaker
what you're doing, man. Because you're you're a hunter out of Colorado that's doing some cool stuff. Yeah, so West Oak Precision, we're out of Western Colorado, um just south of Grand Junction. um Do a lot of hunting, a lot of long range shooting, shoot a lot of competitions. I shoot a bunch of PRS competitions, NRL hunter.
00:01:13
Speaker
um I ah really dove into NREL Hunter a lot this year and and shot a lot of those. But building custom rifles, um I've been doing it for, this will be be pretty much year six for me. Did it part time for six or five years and then went full time
Origins of West Elk Precision
00:01:30
Speaker
here in April. So um loving it so far, but having ah having a lot of fun with it, meeting a lot of cool people and and going on a lot of cool hunts. So I'm loving it. and it's ah It's West Elk Precision, correct?
00:01:41
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. So I grew up just, let's see, it'd be just East of here in Panya and we had the West Elk Mountains there. So it was kind of fitting for me whenever, whenever I was in school, I planned West Elk Precision and I had the little business plan there that we, we did in business class. So it's been that ever since I started and this is kind of what I always wanted to do.
00:02:02
Speaker
Nice dude.
Specialization in Hunting & PRS Rifles
00:02:03
Speaker
And now do you guys specialize in hunting rifles or do you guys build NRLs type stuff and PRS stuff as well? Or what what what are you guys kind of doing? Any of it really. ah most ah Most of the rifles I'm building they are going to be hunting rifles. So I build a lot of rifles off the the like XLR chassis and I build a few off the MDG chassis. We're doing a lot of them off the manner stocks. um Any of those. I try to ah supply all the parts or or have them all in stock and that way I can build rifles a lot quicker than some of these guys can.
00:02:32
Speaker
But then I also have a lot of the PRS stuff. just It's a little bit smaller market, so I don't carry quite as much of it. But I like to have some of it in stock, so that way I can still build rifles pretty quickly for both PRS and Interahunner.
Building a PRS Gun for Competitions
00:02:44
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, I'm building a PRS gun, and we'll go into this a little bit more on PRS. We're going to talk PRS. We're going to talk long range, all that stuff. I'm building a gun right now. I'm building like ah it' a Matrix chassis.
00:02:55
Speaker
um Yeah, the NPA matrix chassis, I think it's approved steel barrel, ah Zeus terminus action. I got a pitch in like they was the vortex.
00:03:10
Speaker
Raise your two for it. Raise your two. Yeah, so i mean it's going to be a slick gun, dude. Build nothing out. It's going to be weighing like, you know, 18, 15, 18 pounds. you Got the weights for it. Got the whole thing. And we're going to come into PRS in 2025 and try and make some waves. and We're going to put some Tricer into that, into that industry, man, the internal hunters and stuff. So we've got some really cool stuff coming, but I'm actually building a gun just like I have been experiencing. Go shoot some of these matches with you guys and figure it out and go fly over there and shoot with you one time or something. Yeah. Yeah. I run a lot of the local matches or I have here for the last few years. I just got to run in the the regional finale here in was July 20th or something along those lines right in there. Um, but yeah, PRS is cool. I got into PRS just to be a better hunter.
00:03:58
Speaker
and then kind of fell in love with
Shift from PRS to NRL Hunter Series
00:04:00
Speaker
it. There was a two or three year span where I was skipping hunting tags just to go shoot PRS matches, but it's kind of came back. Well, that's what Matt, Matt, my boss at XLR, he was like, there's no way I would ever do that. And and it's kind of came back to where i'm I'm hunting a lot more now than, than shoot PRS, but it's fun. I love it. And and the NRL hunter series is, it's gotten to be one of my favorites
Building an NRL Gun
00:04:23
Speaker
too. I'm, I'm a little better at that than I am at the PRS just cause the finding targets I,
00:04:27
Speaker
I find targets really well and managing gear on the on the clock. I do that really well. So next year I think I'm going to shoot a lot more of the NRL hunter matches. I'm putting like 14 matches that I'm going to. Oh wow. Yeah, I think the NRL might be funner for me. So I'll probably have to build an NRL gun as well.
00:04:46
Speaker
My poor partners, I'm just always just building cool stuff, but I'll probably build an NRL gun as well, just so I can go do that and experience that side of it. And but you can go do interl with anything, right? Like I have a 260 Remington that shoots very accurately. Um, I can go shoot an NRL match with a 260 Remington. I don't have to go build a big chassis gun, right? I can do it with anything. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually the first, the first interl match I shot, it wasn't an actual interl one. It was the first one they did just kind of tested the concept. And I took my seven mag out there and shot that match.
00:05:14
Speaker
and it wasn't what you wanted, but it it worked and it was a it was a good step into the sport and and just see what it's all about. And then I built a rifle from there. I shot a couple with the 6.5 PRC and and then now I had ah i i shoot my pretty much my matched gun that I put a lighter barrel on um and it works really well.
6.5 Creedmoor vs. 260 Remington Debate
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, my only issue I think I'd have with my 260 and not even really, it's the barrel might warm up a little bit, but I think you have time in between stations too, right? Like you're not gonna be,
00:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah you you would you would be just fine with the 260. It's close enough to the 6.5 Creed that you would be just fine. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I talk so much smack on the 6.5 Creed, even though my 260 is essentially the first 6.5 Creed. yeah know but it is This is a gentleman's gun, dude. This is not a 6.5 Creed. It's close enough. It's basically a glorified Creedmoor.
00:06:09
Speaker
Well, dude, honestly, it was out before the Creed. It's more efficient than the Creed. And then Hornady is just really good at marketing. yeah Like I don't like, it's like 260 is like, bitch it, you know, I've been shooting it like before Creed got popular and all of a sudden like, everyone's like, Creed, more, Creed, more, Creed, more. And I think it's a phenomenal deer cartridge. I'll i'll leave it at that. It's not an elk cartridge, but it's a phenomenal deer cartridge. Oh yeah. We we can, uh, we can argue about the deer and elk cartridge and all that, but, um,
00:06:38
Speaker
It's the Creedmores, the PRCs, all those. It's marketing, but there's a little touch to it, too, I think. The way they're changing the lead angle on the chamber and all that, it really helps with a lot of these bigger bullets. The throat design, I wrote an article a couple years ago about just comparing the 6.5 PRC to a 260, comparing the 7.5 PRC to a seven mag, the 300 PRC to a three and a win mag. And although there there is a lot of similar similarities in all those, they did they did
Ethical Hunting Distances
00:07:13
Speaker
change them for the bullets that they're making right now. And and I think there's a there's a few good reasons behind what they're doing.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, so in that 260, I'll shoot, I shoot hammers, 124 hammers. Guns, that's a lights out gun, dude. I put in that rifle, I put four bullets into ah a grapefruit at 1000 yards and it was like, I put the gun away. I was like, this gun is just lights out with those bullets, those hammer bullets. But I also shoot the A-tips out of it.
00:07:40
Speaker
so the, the Horny ATIPs, which is like their high end, high end match bullet. I think it's like a 140 or what's it? I don't know what that bullet weighs. I haven't chopped those bullets for so long. Like a 140 or something like that. But Horny does some cool stuff, man. But I mean, it's a thing with, with a,
00:07:58
Speaker
300 PRC is a freaking 30 nozzler, but now they just, they're so good at marketing it. I'm not knocking it. I think it's great. I think Hornady is awesome. I have friends over there. It's awesome. But um yeah, dude, so it's cool. We got a lot in common and I like to talk to guys like you actually know what they're talking about ah with like long range stuff and building guns.
00:08:19
Speaker
um This year, on my hunts, I'm using a factory Browning 3006 Woodstock for every hunt. Okay. Why? ah but
00:08:34
Speaker
I was just on a few hunts last year, one in particular, I was hunting elk in Arizona with my kid and I just had like, this freaking morons man, like up on a rim above us, like sending rounds, like a thousand, I was going back trucking more ammo, just sending bullets, I didn't know they were doing man. And in my opinion,
00:08:52
Speaker
I could get to 400 yards of any animal. If I can't get to 400 yards, I probably should be taking the shot, yeahp right? Even that good that that gun, then all I can shoot 500 yards of it all day long. I say pretty a i got to shoot it in like, I mean, it is what it is. I know what it is, right? I've got to shoot three quarter now and three quarters not terrible. yeah I mean, it's not like, I mean, I could drop, have like I have a, I have a couple of factor or
Choosing Hunting Cartridges
00:09:13
Speaker
a custom rifle, a 280 Ackley and then a 260, then I can pretty staff the bullets, right? So it's obviously good, but um just kind of like a, like a,
00:09:22
Speaker
man like I feel like it's gone so far away from this like hunting and got into this like rifle thing where it's like people were just they have to go buy these cartridges everyone wants to buy a six five PRC or seven PRC and as soon as they get it they feel like They could just dial that damn scope and and but pull the trigger, but they don't understand windage. They don't understand any of that stuff. And they they're not proficient with their rifles. Yep. Yep. Right. These guys get the gun. They go shoot. They might go ring steel at the range with no wind once, or once, or twice a year, a thousand yards. And all of a sudden they're a long range hunter. Yeah. And they're shooting at, they're shooting at truck size steel at a thousand yards and they're hitting that and they're like, Oh yeah, I'm ready to go. I can go shoot now. i have As much of the long range rifles I build and then the long range shooting that I do,
00:10:08
Speaker
The more I shoot, the less confident I am at these extended distances because I know what can happen out there. So like this year, I'm actually, I'm going to a, I'm hunting with a six creed and so I'm doing a six creed. That's what I'm shooting elk with and deer. I just shot, I killed a two 10 buck a couple of weeks ago um and shot him with that six creed and it just folded him up.
00:10:28
Speaker
So the reason my, my thought process behind that is I'm going to something smaller so I can limit myself because I know what I can do at those extended distances and I get overly confident. And so when I take my seven mag out there and I know, all right, I know I can kill that bull at 1200 yards. If I hit him correctly, it, I, I, when I get in that heat of that moment, I do it. And I had a bull two, three years ago that he was at 800 yards. it was dead calm where I was sitting, I was glassing out there. And I mean, I, I shot 40,000 rounds that year, at six, five Creed. So I'm i'm shooting a lot and dead calm looking out there. It's, it's not blowing it all out there. It looked like through the binos at least. And I shoot and miss and shoot and miss and ended up wounded him. And then I had to go all the way over there yeah and put him down. And it was one of those, it was pretty eye-opening for me. Like, you know, I, even though I do shoot this much and and I do shoot really well,
00:11:26
Speaker
i I still don't think guys should be shooting pass out seven, eight, 900 yards unless they're in the perfect conditions and they absolutely know what's going on between them and the, and the animal. And so there there's guys that all argued all day long. My grandpa, he's, he's a super good long range shooter and he'll shoot stuff out to 12, 1300 yards and and not when you can eye out it. But there there's always, you just don't know what the conditions are at that animal. and And that's what makes it hard, especially when you get in these canyons in Colorado.
00:11:56
Speaker
Yeah, man, for sure. And there's a side of me, too, with this whole thing, because I've passed bulls. I have a bull in particular, where I went and ended up going home empty handed. I had a bull at 800 yards. Shooting a gun that I shoot at 1,200 yards all the time, my 7, or a 280 Ackley. Very accurate gun. Shooting burgers out of it is just a very accurate gun. And I passed them. There's something to me with the long-range stuff, like,
00:12:22
Speaker
I want to try and get on the animal. You know, that's probably why I like archery so much too. You know what I mean? And I got some muzzleloader
Ethics & Proficiency in Shooting
00:12:29
Speaker
tag this year. Like I want to, man, I don't want to knock it. I want to hunt him. yeah Like I want to, I want to be a freaking wolf.
00:12:40
Speaker
and play the wind and get in there and get close to him and get with the, you know, and then set up on him and find him. And like, I want that experience, right? And, and I'm not knocking it. Like, dude, if you're grabbing me over yards, it's freaking bitchin'.
00:12:54
Speaker
But what I am knocking is you shot 40,000 rounds last year. The average dude bought five boxes of Hornady, probably the ELDMs, not even the ELDXs, which you probably should match bullets. I'm going to get into that right now with you. I guarantee you're shooting like probably that Sierra match king or something like that or Sierra. 108 ELDM, Hornady. You're probably shooting match bullets, which I'm not going to knock, but ah and not necessarily my game.
00:13:21
Speaker
but um And they go and buy five box of it. That's all they have. then They're using that same box from two years ago. And then also they're a long range hunter, right? And they have the dope in their phone and they're doing it. And it's like, I feel like it's taking away. This is going to be controversial. Like I've even said before, like I wish there was a way to limit the distance you're allowed to hunt animals.
00:13:44
Speaker
because it would open up more, because guys are killing them at that range, right? Yeah. yeah it but It would open up more tags. It would open up more hunting. It would force people not to get a lot of animals to get bigger, right? Like it was just like weird thing there, but like technology is so bitchin' and so good, right? But at the same time, like I had the flagship bow and I have the custom rifles and I have all that stuff and I have the range finding binos and I have the BTX. Like I have all this stuff. It's like this weird balance there. Like I was a,
00:14:11
Speaker
huge opponent of them getting rid of the scopes on muzzle litters. Yeah, I love that. You haven't happened it forever. But like, dude, like, you look at the rifle like Brady Miller shooting. yeah Brady is a badass dude. This guy's shooting a single shot rifle, not a muzzle litter.
00:14:28
Speaker
yeah like exactly Like this guy Brady with with open, with open-sized phrase, good, like 600 yards, you know what I mean? Which is awesome. which Open-sized. So but you put, you put a frigga scope for that thing and it's a single shot rifle and you're killing animals all day long, four or 500 yards, which honestly, 500 yards anymore is not that far of a shot. Like I kind of liked that like quarter mile range is like four twenties, kind of like where I like kind of like to stay underneath that for hunting. Oh, my kid da did kill a buck a little bit further than that last year. Like i think he was like four, four 50 or something.
00:14:58
Speaker
But ah like that's kind of like what people don't realize is when you're shooting, like that 450 mark is when things really start going wrong with wind and stuff. yeahp Things start moving a lot on you. um And that's what you don't see. is like that that quarter mile i you I like to call it a quarter mile. is like Then you're like, oh, damn, that's a quarter mile. That's a lot further than this 400 yards. No, a quarter mile.
00:15:25
Speaker
yeah
Technical Aspects of Shooting
00:15:26
Speaker
So yeah, dude, I don't know, sorry, I'm talking too much, but what what do you what your take on that stuff? What do you take on me getting close, using a 30 on six, doing all this stuff? So I 100% agree with you on the on the hunt side of it, and and guys are shooting a bit too far. um I think, for for me, 600 yards is is that range. And basically, the way I think about it is I can't miss an elk at 600 yards. Like there's, out of all the shots that I've taken in the last two, three years shooting matches, I can't miss an elk at 600 yards. It would be very hard for me to miss the kill zone. um So that's where i that's where I put that range at, and that's like that's why I said, all right, what can what can kill an elk at 600 yards? It's the smallest cartridge possible. That's where that sixth creed came into play, and that's why it shows that.
00:16:13
Speaker
and So that's that's why I went there this year. I do 100% agree. I get get guys calling me all the time, hey, I want a rifle that'll shoot nokits at 1,000 yards. okay like I can build you a rifle that'll shoot nokits 1,000 yards all day long. like That's no big deal. um it's It's super easy to do. the The big component there is going to be A, how you shoot, how well your ammo's doing, and how well you can read the wind.
00:16:40
Speaker
so The Hornady factory ammo anymore is it's awesome. It shoots really well. It shoots good tight groups. The ESs and SDs are are going to limit you once you get past that 600 yard range. so That's that's another another spot where it becomes a factor at that. yeah ES means extreme spread yeah and then SD standard deviation, right? yep Correct. ye so your Your standard deviation is typically going to be lower like I went out and shot with um but Shane Smith. I think he was on your podcast there a little while ago.
00:17:11
Speaker
And we shot there that Hornady, let's see, it was 180 ELDM factory ammo. And he had ah an SD of 10 and an ES of 24, if I remember right. um So, and that's good. That's really good for for the Hornady ammo. I've seen their ESs get up to the 90 to 110 range, and that's where it starts to become a ah factor that you have to kind of account for.
00:17:35
Speaker
um and And what that means is that you're having a range. Like when I shoot, I try and get my standard deviation down as low as possible, like five to seven. And I'm only using, I'm not even using a crazy like precision. im mean using it you know powder chucker thing, you know, but charge basketball um talk about yeah, my phone has got ah the bitchin one, you know, we can all use some of that sometimes I'll like when I'm doing like some more long range stuff, but you you can get it really low by hand loading it. and So what that means is there's 20 spread that means that you can be shooting
00:18:07
Speaker
was just using round number 3000 feet per second or 3020. And that's, and that's, and it doesn't sound like much, but when you start getting out further, that's when you're seeing your deviation starts dropping. ah good It's just like, now you're off, you know, 22 per second. It's this lower and you get to 800 yards and you can be down six inches versus, yeahp you know, one or two inches. And that's where things get really bad. Yeah. You start, you start to see a vertical spread. That's, that's where you come into, that's where it comes into an issue.
00:18:36
Speaker
And so even if you have like, there's, there's so many components that go into it, but you, you get into, all right, I'm, I'm shooting like yesterday morning, Shane's shooting, uh, 28 40 say was his average and he had a good ES, but if he had an ES 80, he's shooting 28 40 is at his average. So his high end is going to be 20. Let's see here.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, he's going to be 2880 would be as high end because you cut that cut that ES in half um and and go from the average there. So if he's at 2880. But then he's shooting in a higher temperature. The higher temperature is going to make your powder burn faster. And then you're also going to increase velocity there. So now in your calculator, you have 2840, but he's shooting one that's at the high end of his ES. And it's also
Hand Loading & Powder Selection
00:19:28
Speaker
going faster. So he's going to be shooting 2920. Now he's shooting over an animal at 600 yards. So that's, that's, there's so many factors that come into play that can, that can be taken into account on that. And, and and that's the hard part. And that's where.
00:19:41
Speaker
That's where it starts to become unethical. um So when you do hand load, you can pick your powder, you can pick one of the Hodgkin extremes out of ah their super temperature sensitive. i want I want to talk about this too. I want to talk about this too. you Yeah. Yeah. This is why I'm using H4350 now in most of my rifles. It's slower. I understand it. Superformance, very fast. RL26, very fast. But that H4350 is going to carry me across
00:20:13
Speaker
Freezing weather in in air in Colorado this year on third season, deer hunt. And then probably 80 degree weather in Mexico in January. I'm not going to have a giant deviation in my shots because that's such a stable powder. And we get so caught up in like trying to be very fast.
00:20:30
Speaker
Which I'm not a big fan of going very fast like I again like i'm I'm a kind of fun Like I don't think I don't think you have to be have the fastest bullet No 100% in the world I think honestly I could tell you some stories that I think sometimes speed can kind of hurt you a little bit with the copper bullets. Yep, but um You want to pick like a like something that's going to be consistent, right? Like it's going to work, right? Honestly, that's kind of why I'm not a fan of match bullets, but we'll go to that too. But like, I want to use like a, like a very funny system that I know is going to work every single time yeah ah for me. yeah Right? Like, and again, I'm not you, Jayden, who can like guarantee it's just killed an elk. Like I want to make sure that.
00:21:12
Speaker
Like if I put it in the shoulder, I'm not exploding. I'm going through and I'm, you know, and I'm, I'm getting some penetration there as well. yeah Like there's just like, there's like, that's just me like, uh, but keep going. Sorry. Oh no. The, the, even the orally extremes they have, uh, they, they still are temperature sensitive, just not as much as a super performance or I've been testing some of the shooters, world powders and stuff like that.
00:21:35
Speaker
They're horrible as far as that goes, but you can, there's technology now like using the Kestrel, um, where you can put that into your Kestrel. So I can go out, like I've, I'm shooting the shooter's world precision rifle out of my six Creed and out of a 16 inch barrel, I'm running it at 29 50. I had looked to 3,100 and dumped it down there to that 29 50 and then water tested it to make sure I wasn't going to run into pressure. So that's another thing that guys aren't doing anymore. and and It really, really shows you where, where you have pressure, where you're going to run into pressure. Um, so you just, you just say you're getting 29 50 out of a 16 inch barrel. Yeah. Yeah. So me and, um, Steve Peck from XO, he, we talked about it at on expo. He's like, yeah, I'm going to do a 16 inch six creed. I was like, that's what I'm planning on doing. And so he, he's like, what do you expect for velocity? I was like, I think we get, I think we can get one up to 2,900.
00:22:29
Speaker
He's like, okay, well, that's that's pretty darn good. And he was shooting his, he got up to 3,102 and he's like, holy cow. I was like, dude, i I don't know if I'm gonna get that high. And so I went out and did a ladder test and at 3,100 you have pressure, like it was it was hot. But that's before, that was the first 20 rounds of the barrel too. So I would expect for it to speed up another 50 to 75 feet per second. Are you shooting a 75 grain bullet? That's a 108 ELDM. You shoot a 108 ELDM at 20?
00:22:59
Speaker
3,100 feet per second out of the 16 inch barrel. What powder what pattern are you running? That's a shooter's world um precision rifle. So it's between 4350 and Varga as far as the burn rate goes.
00:23:14
Speaker
which are like the two powders I'm using right now. So I'm going to be loading, uh, I use bargain and like my three kids, three away. It's my kitchen, three away. Um, and then, uh, I'm going to use bargain for our building a six dasher for PRC. So I'll probably be using bargain that as well. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I like, when I go with super short on barrels, I, I mess with powders. Um, like I did a six, an 18 inch six, five PRC a couple of years ago.
00:23:38
Speaker
And that's what I handled with the last couple of years. um ran I ran that with 4350. There's no nowhere out there that has 4350 in their book. And I got up to 2850 with 147 ELDM out of that 18 inch barrel without seeing pressure ever. And like I said, so you go you go if if you have a load that you are afraid that you're going to run into pressure,
00:23:58
Speaker
You take it, dump some water on the load and then shoot that. And if you have pressure, you'll have a heavy boat lift. And so it's, it's a good way to show you, all right, I'm out here in Colorado hunting and I get into some rain. If I shoot this load, I'm still going to be able to extract it, eject it and everything and run another one versus like my grandpa, he's getting ready. We got to go hunt next weekend that he's going on.
00:24:22
Speaker
He tried some water on his load. He shot it and it pretty much stuck the bull. He was, he was giving it all he could to open that bull. So that shows you that that's not a load you want to run that you're too hot on pressure. So that that's what I've, we've started doing on on all the loads that we do just so you can be, you can be at the higher end, but you're not so high that you're going to run the issues in the field.
00:24:43
Speaker
Okay. Um, now yeah, cause I'm, I'm not a big speed guy. I used to want to be fast as possible and I go up to pressure to come back a little bit. yup I've kind of now like I use quick load and I kind of find my node. yeah Honestly, like even doing live testing now is kind of pointless for me. Like the quick load is so good at that. Like finding your node, it's pretty much always spot on. yeah Um, so like, I think I'm shooting that one set right now. I'm probably going to go to one 78 ELDX. I'm sure the one 75 LRX right now. I was like, God, I think it's gone. Like.
00:25:14
Speaker
2750 or something or 20 out of that 30 out six 175 2750 and I know like everyone wants to be like 3000 three that would be really fast right now But dude, like that's like a a super efficient and bullet out to like 450 yards like it just it'll work at that read that range It'll be fine and it'll do its trick. Well if you're not playing on shooting some at 700 yards, it doesn't matter It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter and it's good. It's just gonna work. Yep. I am we' go to the six or where work you keep going I am a proponent of energy still, which people aren't. I'll tell you why. like I like the 1,500 pound rule for elk. and i think for what it For one, yeah will kind of it'll limit your distance you're shooting elk. I know like that gun's 1,500 pounds, like 450 or something like that at at at that but range. and One reason I like that is
00:26:09
Speaker
Cause it kind of carries over to speed. So I find if you have that energy, you'll have the speed you need for the bowl to work as well. yeah But now that's probably not going to transcend into your, into your sixth, cre your sixth grade though. Cause it's like a different, it's a lighter bullet. yeah So, um, but I also wonder what we'll get to that. So what's your take on energy? Cause most people throwing out the window now. Yeah. I mean, I've, I've looked at it. Um, I haven't looked at it on this sixth grade. I need to look at it.
00:26:36
Speaker
When I was shooting that six five PRC, I wanted to get to that 28 50 cause that carried the energy out to 800 or 600 yards. So that's why still looking at energy I was still looking at energy. Yep. Um, we shot. So my mom drew a good bull tag here and she shot that ball. I told her, cause I use match bullets. That's all I use.
Match Bullets in Hunting
00:26:57
Speaker
Um, out of my seven mag I shoot the 180 yield DM out of my six five ah PRC, I shoot the one 47 ELDM and out of the six good, I'm shooting the one Oh eight ELDM and I told her, all right,
00:27:06
Speaker
We're shooting a very, very frangible bullet. So you want to hit them behind the shoulder. Otherwise we're not going to get the penetration that you want. That was my thought and I had never proved it. And I still really haven't. I, it was one animal, but she, she gets up there on the tripod, smokes that bowl at six 20, I think. Cause what was, she shot the bull up, goes right through. It was a high shoulder shot. I was like, great, we're going to be chasing this bull around. We were pretty close to private. He ran towards the private. I was like, he he's going to be in there and we're not going to be able to get him. And we get up there and that bull ran a softball size hole through that shoulder and into the next shoulder with that 147 ELDM.
00:27:44
Speaker
I was like, huh. So I still need to shoot more animals to see that, but I don't shoot high shoulder spot shot specifically because it is more frangible bullet. The, the copper is going to be a little bit thinner on those. Um, but like I told you that I'd shot that, I should have shot that buck a couple of weeks ago and shot him right behind the shoulder. And it looked like you stuck a 12 gauge right there, just right at his skin and pull the trigger and he just dropped right away. So I've shot goats with those 180 yield DMs. that All the yield DMs have done really well for me. um I know I was talking to Mark from XO and and they just shot that caribou up there in Alaska and he said but that that 109 yield DM, which is what Steve's shooting, he said it it did really well.
00:28:25
Speaker
So that's kind of why I'm sticking to the ELDMs. I do understand why some guys are are still shooting the like the um Barnes Triple Shocks or some of those. um i've I've talked to a few guys that are still shooting those just because they hold together so well. But for me, I'm willing to lose a little bit of meat as long as I know I can track that animal and that he's not going to go as far. so Yeah, blood can be an issue, man. So I'm on this whole 30-06 kick.
00:28:56
Speaker
And we'll talk bullets right now. I i went to Hawaii and i couldn't bring her I didn't bring a rifle, because it was going to be a total nightmare to bring a rifle. And the guy's like, well, you've borrowed my rifle. was we were good We shot deer with our bows. We shot we saw we saw pigs with bows. We stabbed pigs. we don't set So he gives me his six PRC, which I'm like, OK, cool. But he has copper. yeah it was like It was like blue, green, and red bullets in this gun. But but they were all copper, right? It was freaking, you know? like or
00:29:28
Speaker
so So, I guess that would be Nosler. partition ahs are No, they were green. I think Nosler makes a green tipped copper bullet. So, it's like Nosler, Hornady and Barnes, all copper. And so, we get to 150 yards of this buck. It's a great buck. Last night, and I had my bow in my hand. He's like, dude, you're knocking on this buck. You want to shoot it? I was like, yeah, I want to shoot it.
00:29:51
Speaker
um And I just, I don't miss that shot. Like nerve yeah I do not miss this shot. yeah And I just smoked this buck through both shoulders. Cause I'm a family who's comfortable with it through their shoulders. That way you just get the expansion. yep But keep in mind this gun with those bullets, I think like one 50 grade bullet is probably cooking and it's like a 24. It was probably going like 30, 200 feet per second. I don't know what that got. Maybe more, yeah right? but the big Maybe more. And dude, it hit that buck.
00:30:21
Speaker
We both heard it smack. I watched the buck run 10 feet roll. Um, and then we, uh, everyone else heard it. They were your guys hunting, you know, come up like a half mile away and heard the smack. I mean, you heard the, heard the report. yeah Get over there. No blood bucks gone. ye And I'm like, I did not do that thing. Well, did I miss it? Like, no, I did not miss. I did not miss this book. yeah And then, um,
00:30:47
Speaker
Again, a couple of days later, this is kind of like, honestly, that's why I'm like, oh man, 3.06 going slower, I've been fine for this, I'm way better. It would have been a bigger bullet, it would have been good. A couple of days later, same thing, last light, couldn't get on the bow, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna shoot that buck, can you give him the rifle? And I freaking, again, don't, high shoulder shot, I want the buck to come down, it's, I'll shoot him with a,
00:31:16
Speaker
the rifle and Buck drops in his tracks. Wow, it was like 160 yards. It's like the same exact shot. Drops in his tracks. Get over there. About took about 10 minutes to go over there because it was like super tall grass. Buck is still alive. I have to slit his throat. It has a pinky sized hole on both sides of it.
00:31:35
Speaker
ye because those bullets were going so fast out of that six PRC that they weren't expanding ye at that range. The six PRC, and that same thing can happen when you're using some of those match bullets as well at that close range to go in so fast. they can bigger it's kind of like god's got It's almost like a 300 yard gun, you know what I mean? You can shoot them closer, with if it was a better bullet, it would have been fine. So I actually told what i actually told my buddy Chase, who runs the operation, I was like, Chase,
00:32:03
Speaker
I would run ELDMs in this
Bullet Performance & Recommendations
00:32:05
Speaker
gun. If we're going to have people use your gun over here at this range, these bullets aren't doing what they're supposed to do, because if it was an occupy would have expanded, but these deer, I mean, the one buck I shot was probably 200 pounds. It wasn't much more than a mule deer, but the bullets just weren't doing their job because they're going too fast. An ELDM would have been my bolt of choice for those animals because it would have fringed, you know, came apart inside the animal and killed it.
00:32:31
Speaker
yeah so it's And um honestly, I'm probably not qualified to talk about the bullets just because my sample size is so low. And like Jaden, Clinton, those guys are testing these bullets so much that they're, good its you it's a podcast. You can be an expert. Oh yeah. 100%. So I've, we've shot 12 animals in the last four years with the ELDMs and every, every animal that we've shot, they've opened up on really well.
00:33:02
Speaker
Um, and that's been, that's been distances that are 20 yards to fake 700 was the furthest that we've shot. My grandpa shoots the one 56 EOLs out of a six five PRC. And then he shot, he has a 300 normal approved. And that's what he uses for shooting those elk at 12 or 12, 13 yards. And he shot the two 45 EOL at that one. And he started running out of velocity at at that 13. I think that one was like 13 12.
00:33:30
Speaker
and he throws one rising. You say EOL? Yeah, they're extreme outer limit. Oh, the bur the burger burger. The burger. Okay, the burgers. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um'm Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so he, he shoots that bullet 13, I think 13 10 and he gets up there. He has a video of it. He shoots it. Perfect. Gets over there and The bull's still sitting there, just chilling, bedded down, shoots it again, dies. So he pulls out that EOL and it looks like you could almost reload the bullet. The tip was just bent a little bit. It didn't open up at all. And so I don't know why. I think it's just because he was hitting that lower end of energy and it wasn't able to expand. But that's why I've just, I've stuck with the match bullets. They've always opened up for me.
00:34:23
Speaker
whether you're at the closer distances or the farther distances, I do stay away from that shoulder, though. that that's i I don't want to ruin that much meat, because if you hit one in the shoulder, you you just leave that shoulder there, and it's coyote meat, because it's rude. Yeah, my father-in-law hit an elk, and it just destroyed the shoulder with one of those ah burger bullets. yeah So that's honestly why I say hunting, maybe with you is different. I tell people, hunting bullets for hunting.
00:34:51
Speaker
So like again, you lose some of the, here's the thing is you lose some of the standard deviation and you lose some of the, you lose some of the,
00:35:01
Speaker
the the is this i don't think you I don't think you lose anything. The BCs. You do lose some BCs. So like if you go to use an acubon, it's not going to have the same BCs, ballistic coefficient, as a DLDM. It's not. It's not going to be as accurate at 700 yards. But for hunting situations, because I know like when I'm shooting at the desert, we're doing a total of 100 yards, I'm like laying on a mat. and it's like But when I'm hunting, I'm laying with a freaking stick up my ass yeah and and there's ants biting me, like the really true story. And, you know, where I'm resting on a tree and I'm on a rock, it's it's just like,
00:35:40
Speaker
I want to make sure that if I do hit him in the shoulder, he goes down, yeah right? It does, it penetrates all the way through. So I'm a big believer in a bullet that's going to go all the way through the animal because also I want blood, ye right? So like I like, I like copper bullets. I'm probably going to be shooting, my copper bullets are pretty much switching all over to hammers. I really do like some of the, the I do like the, um the TTSXs, my kids shoot those, the 168s, but the hammers, they fragment as well, so the hammers go in, they send three pedals out, and then the core goes through. I want to pass through. I'd like to get a pass through on my animals when I kill them. On an elk, it's hard to get a pass through with any caliber. I mean, they will, but you go through shoulders, you're going to have some... You're going to be surprised when you throw your windbag, you're going to find it in the off shoulder sometimes. You're going to have that bullet there.
00:36:33
Speaker
yeah but um I just feel like hunting bullets like an ELDX or a... I don't think the ELDX is that much different than the ELDM though. It's a little bit thicker but it's it's not that much different. We shot two bulls last year side by side and and the the bullet performance on the animal wasn't that much different and we both hit them right in the same spot.
00:36:54
Speaker
But if you talk to Hornady, and if you talk to Hornady, they would tell you totally opposite. And they'd say, what they would say is a bunch of keyboard warriors are out there. Yeah. And they're like, we don't recommend it at all. We do testing. We know the ELDM is not for hunting. The ELDX is for hunting. This is like, dude, I was out with them. We were doing a gun together. And they're like, dude, ELDX is for hunting. But everybody's ELDMs, because the thing with the ELDM, which is really cool, is like, when you hit them right,
00:37:22
Speaker
It's devastating. Oh, they don't go anywhere. Yeah. They are dead right there because what happens is that, you know, the M will fragment and you're going to get like a, like a 12 inch wound cavity, right? Like I don't want to knock rocks, like a rock site on this big old kick right now, which is kind of like what you're doing. They're on this big kick where you got to shoot a Sierra, um, tips about, tips about the TMK yep and they're on there and they're shooting two, two threes at elk. This is a real deal. And they,
00:37:50
Speaker
Dude, if I tell them I'm shooting 30 out of 6, they get, they salivate and take me out. Like, which I love it because I, I like controversy and I like pissing people off. And like, like, this first issue we have right now is a conversation, right? But they want to just like, they'll call you an idiot because you're shooting out 6 and hours. They're way mad. Like, these guys are like, they're drinking the Kool-Aid over there, which is fine. Like, do what you want to do, but don't knock guys. but Like, I'm telling you right now, a three-year-old woman actually killed way more elk this year than that.
00:38:13
Speaker
six grid You know what I mean? And, and my, and they're shooting the tip match game. And it's like, man, putting that stuff on the internet. I, you know, I agree with that at all. Like, I think like you should shoot, like my opinion, you're usually 40,000 rounds a year. I don't know. You're on an elk. You need to be using a seven. so a 280 caliber or the seven millimeter or a 30 caliber bullet. I've shot an elk with a 260, which is a creeper, took four shots. Barely had them penetrated all the way through. I think one boy passed through. They're tough animals. I shot them with 300 wing mags and they die. But you shoot with your wing mags and they don't die too. I mean, it's not like they're just tough animals. It depends on the animal. The average dude in my opinion should be shooting, you know,
00:39:01
Speaker
Even a 308, anything that's 30 caliber, know your range. I think that 1,500-pound mark is a good... This is me talking to the average dude, not the NRL 100 guys. ye Know your range. 1,500-pound mark is going to keep you where that caliber is going to work every time and shoot those bigger bullets, heavier bullets, heavier caliber bullets, and you've got a lot more success versus throwing in a 75 grade 243 bullet and shooting this elk. And it's like why, in my opinion, why are you bringing a knife to a gunfight, Jayden? Why are you bringing a six meter? Why? I just don't understand it. Why? Tell me why. So when I shoot, I know exactly where that bullet hits because I'm shooting a smaller cartridge.
00:39:46
Speaker
So even on that book that I shot, I shot him at 350 yards. I shot him off. I had a triple pole MDT Skypod in the front and I was shooting tripod, which I wasn't prone. And even with that, I still seen exactly where that bullet hit at 350 yards.
00:40:03
Speaker
If you're shooting a three and a win mag, you have no idea. You have no idea. I have no idea. If I shoot a three and a win mag, if I shoot my seven mag, any of those, I have no idea where that bullet hit most of my hunt and I do alone. So I need to see where that bullet hits. I don't have a spotter behind me that says, Hey, you hit high, you hit low. You, you hit them in the guts. You hit them in the shoulder. Any of that. I'm my spotter. I need to see exactly where that bullet hit.
00:40:26
Speaker
So I'm a big proponent of either six, I don't tell most guys six Creed, but six five PRC is what I push most guys to, um, for that reason. And I've even had it where most of the time your spotters, I shouldn't say most of the time the guys you're hunting with or the guys that I hunt with do not shoot near as much as me.
00:40:50
Speaker
Even at a PRS match, I'll shoot shots sometimes and I'll be like, yeah, you missed high. I'm like, no, I didn't. I missed off the right. So even, even with that spotter behind you, they don't get to see the exact angle that you're at following that bullet the entire way. And I want to be the one spotting my own shots, calling my own shots and, and, and seeing exactly where that bullet hits. If I'm shooting a 28 nozzler, ah a three and a win mag, a 30 out six, a seven PRC, any of those.
00:41:15
Speaker
you aren't gonna be able to see that bullet until you get to that four or 500 yards. Like at 400 yards, I'd be pretty confident with that seven PRC and a good suppressor to see where I'm hitting. But most guys, it's six, 700 yards before they're seeing anything. And most of the guys shoot and they pop their head up anyways, because they have no idea they're they're not seeing anything. And so that's why i want I want the smallest cartridge possible so I can see exactly where I'm hitting.
00:41:41
Speaker
But what I really bring it down to is a fixed mechanical debate. It's is kind of how I relate it.
Hunting vs. Match Bullets
00:41:49
Speaker
The, the hunting bullets are your fixed broad heads. You know, they're going to, you know, they're going to work, you know, they're going to expand, but they're, they're not. If you hit them forward, you want the fixed blade. If you hit them back, the fixed blade is going to suck with the match bullets. If you hit them forward, they're not going to work as well as a fixed blade will.
00:42:07
Speaker
But if you hit them further back, you still have that possibility that you're going to throw a fragment over there in the heart and they're going to bleed out and die right there 20 yards away. So that's kind of how I look at it. Um, I shoot fixed blades out of my bro bow for the same reason. So it's, that's how, that's exactly how I look at it. And I think it's, I think it's a debate that I hope somebody will put the time in and put it on ballistic gel and put it in stuff like that, where they, they can actually see results.
00:42:34
Speaker
But even if they do that, I still think it'll be a debate. and it's It's just, you have to you have to choose the right shot for what you're shooting is the way that I look at it. I have a video on my phone of a bull elk being shot perfectly. Eight times, if I were 50 yards with a 6.5 PRC, you shouldn't yell me X's. Perfectly. You can watch the shots hit perfectly and it's not dying. Did he just stand there? Eat him up.
00:42:59
Speaker
but he but He ate him up, he's moving around, he tried to go back to trying to get more ammo. Eight times better 50 yards. If that was a, at that distance, a 300 PRC or a 300 WIM mag, that pole wouldn't have been shot eight times. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. but that but i Even though they saw it hitting him, they saw we watch they watched the shots, they watched the shots hit him, but the pole wasn't dying. So that's my argument, it's just like,
00:43:28
Speaker
Okay. Let me give you this. It's it's a Brady Miller argument. you You've been hanging out with Brady a lot. ah Yeah. I know. It's just like, I'm a, like, here's my thing. Right. And I completely understand the argument too. I completely get it. So let me give you, here's, here's my thing. And this is, about I got rocks. I'm really upset with this one. All right. Jayden, I want you to go stand 600 yards away. I want you to pick which ball I'm going to shoot you with. Yeah.
00:43:56
Speaker
A 215 grain, we'll call caliber, 300 weight mag or whatever, $30 or a 100 grain ELDM. Which one do you choose to be shot with? Yeah, you're going to choose a smaller one. A smaller one? yeah Why? Because it's smaller. it's not yeah that's there There's not going to be as much energy.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yes. So that's my art and like, I didn't rock side, but so that's so stupid. It's going to kill you. I was like, no, don't tell me that you're like, like it's ah that's an honest question. Like you're going to choose a smaller bullet because you know, it's not going to do as much damage as that big bullet. And that's my argument for this is like, if I'm going to shoot, especially at the ranges you're saying 600 yards. Dude. I feel like you have to have like, so here's that Mac truck dude. heres Here's the other part is I would. Yeah.
00:44:52
Speaker
after thinking about it a little bit, I'd rather have you shooting me with the bigger one because I know you're not going to shoot it as well. but you You're getting hit both times, right? And into so if you're getting hit with the same bullet both times, it's it's fun. Yep. face You want to shoot the bigger one. But when I have a fierce in the shop right now at $20 or that rifle is so hard to shoot. So hard to shoot. And you put You put me behind, I don't like recoil either, that's the other thing. I don't like recoil much either. I put a mozo break on the .30-06, I'm being honest. I've been paid four bucks for the break on it. I don't believe you have to shoot, I shoot a .280 Acle, not a .07 mag. I don't believe you have to, when you start understanding what's the coefficient, you start realizing you don't have to shoot a .300 PRC.
00:45:39
Speaker
If you don't want to shoot 700, like you'll have the same, you'll have enough energy at 500 yards with a 30 out of 60 enough to kill the animal. Right? So like, you know, if you know your range, you don't need to shoot. I would rather look at what's the coefficient rather than like freaking bullet size. Yeah. but Keep going. Sorry. Well, I was going to say I, that sixth grade, I shoot without a break.
00:45:58
Speaker
That way, then that way I don't, I don't need to have a break on it and so and can still spot my shots. Um, when I'm shooting, like when I take kids out to hunt, we do a lot of the, a lot of the private land tags around here. I'll throw the suppressor on there and then it's, it's a dream to shoot. But you, you put somebody behind that 20 Nosler and you can't shoot it. It's there. They're so hard to shoot. I said it already, already, but I shoot a lot and I don't like shooting that, that 20 Nosler.
00:46:26
Speaker
I did load development for a 338 by 378 for a guy. And I called him, I said, dude, you're not gonna be able to shoot this rifle. And he was like, oh no, i I shoot a lot, I'll be fine. Okay, whatever. And do load development, give give it to him. And he hasn't shot it since. It's such a hard rifle to shoot.
00:46:42
Speaker
And if you hit something, it's going to hurt, but it's just, you don't want to shoot it and you don't want to practice with it. And you, you, you don't want to, you don't want to shoot it near as often. Like I have a spot up here that I had that's it's close to private land. And when I shoot a but ah buck there, I want to drop it. it I don't want it moving anywhere. I'm not going to take my six creed on that hunt. I'm going to take my seven mag and shoot the 180 yield. Yeah. Cause I want to drop it right there.
00:47:09
Speaker
And I'm going to go for a high shoulder shot, even though it isn't Neil. Do you have a bullet? It's a little bit bigger bullets. So it's a deer. It's a deer. It's going to die. Yeah, exactly. It's a very big difference with a deer, a deer, like it's, it's almost like.
00:47:23
Speaker
They have a, you can't, like deer if you shoot them, it's gonna die. They're not really tougher deer. I guess they might be, but my experience is not. like elk like Some elk just, doesn't matter, what you can shoot them with a f freaking cannon and they dis still they're still standing there. and You're like, what the heck, you my kid dumped a,
00:47:39
Speaker
I know last year, 168, ELDX, perfect
Challenges in Elk Hunting
00:47:45
Speaker
shot. Just, it was a cow, 330 yards, dumpster in her tracks. Bam. Yeah. High five it. Look back a minute, a second later, but but it stands back up. He shoots it again, say spot, and it died right there. yeah Right. I mean, it's like, they just like, they have, they don't want to die and they have so much blood going through. Just people understand too. There's like, it takes a long time for them to die. They might not even know their dad for a minute or two, you know?
00:48:08
Speaker
Well, I think sometimes they just buckle those legs, unlike how you're saying that six by PRC. I think they'll buckle their legs and stand there and pretty much be dead and just sit there and take bullets. Like i've so I've seen him do it one ah one time and that he just stood there and just kept taking bullets and taking bullets. We're like, is he, cause we couldn't see where he was hitting because he misses him. What's he doing? And he's just hammering that cavity and he was just taking them.
00:48:32
Speaker
This is a fun conversation and yeah I'll even throw in there too with this whole caliber thing. um everyone wants to build these ultralight
Rifle Weight & Recoil Management
00:48:41
Speaker
rifles. I carry anywhere from an eight to nine and a half pound rifle on me yeah for accuracy and for recoil for those reasons. So like if I was shooting a six PR, a six three more, I wouldn't need that. yeahp But like for my average, even my two sixties, like eight pounds, I like a heavier rifle for hunting. I think if you're, especially if you're planning on shooting longer ranges, don't go and try and build a six pound rifle for longer ranges. I think
00:49:05
Speaker
I think a little more weight isn't going to kill you. You know, it's inherently just more stable. but Build an appropriate rifle for the cartridge. That's what I tell guys. And that's why like that six created seven and a half pounds scoped with a folding chassis on it. So it's, it's, it's something that's very shootable. My seven mag is 11 pounds because I can shoot it really well. Um, but the guys that want to do the seven and a half pounds scoped 28 Nosler.
00:49:33
Speaker
I don't want to shoot it. i mean that's and And I know that they can't. They think they can shoot it really well, but but they can. like yeah I think that nine to 10 pound range with a scope and a bipod and a break or a suppressor, um I think that's the way to go. I'm building a bitch and bipod. I'm going to have five of them in my hands here in a few weeks. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:49:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's the bipod market is there's one bipod out right now. um Some of my buddies are working on one that's similar to the triple pull and I think it's going to be pretty cool, but I think there's one bipod to use and it's the MDT SkyPods. They're the only bipod I'll i'll run. The Thunderbeast bipod's all right.
00:50:15
Speaker
um but it just doesn't have the range that those SkyPods do. Those are heavier bipods. These are not hunting. but For the average guy, they're not hunting bipod. I'm not being a pair of bipod. I'm building a hunting bipod. They're the only bipod, and they're heavy, but they're the only bipod because they're the only one that does what they do. and I'll pack it. I packed a triple. It's like two pounds, six ounces. Going up, weve we had a...
00:50:44
Speaker
Oh, I think it was 2,200, 2,300 feet vertical right off from the truck. And I didn't like the triple pull, but I packed it just because I know how valuable it is. um On the back country, that's like this go hunt that
Developing a Versatile Hunting Bipod
00:50:59
Speaker
we're going on. I'm not going to pack it up there, but um I do know that there is value to it. Oh yeah. So I've i've got a, this is an a prism precision bipod. Okay. Yeah. iphon No, nothing's not gun work. This is from Prism. Oh, okay. It's like a PRS-style bipod. It's a pretty slick bipod. Yeah, yeah, it looks... Oh, it's from Odenworks. I'm sorry, it's from Odenworks. Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty slick bipod. That's gonna be my PRS bipod. They sent me one and they tried it out and see how it done. I haven't even got to really use it yet, honestly. So I gotta figure that out and know how it works, but... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're starting to break like gun with that new gun works. Bipod's cool. I don't like to twist locks on the legs. Um, I'm not a twist lock fan on the legs, uh, just because you have to get up there and either have the bipod closer to you or you have to get off the rifle and change where the legs sit now. So I don't like that as much. I like to be able to get up there and just pull it or press a button and the legs pop out. Um, and that's why I like that Skypod or the thunder beast.
00:52:01
Speaker
Which is hard too. Mine's going to have twist locks because the thing with twist locks is you save the weight. Yep. That's the hard part. You start adding aluminum in there. So I'm building a bipod. I'll talk about it real quick because I'm working here on it. um Not sure I'm going to call it, but ah it's going to, it's kind of like the ultimate back of two bipods I'm working on. right now I think I'm at like 12 ounces with my long. It's going to come with everything you need. It's going to come with two sets of legs, one long set that'll go from like,
00:52:31
Speaker
eight to ah like 22. Another set of legs, it'll go from like six to 10. You'll get both sets of legs in there. It'll come with two sets of feet, one rubber set, one spiked set. It'll come with two heads that you can change out, either Arca or Picatini. So it's all there. I hate that you can buy a bipod. It's like, it's my Arca bipod. And you can go buy a pick bipod. It's going to be, this bipod will do everything you need to do.
00:52:56
Speaker
um I'm still working on it. I've been everyone's athlete build a bipod for years and I haven't done it. And so now I'm working on building the bipod. The age 22 will be a good range. I think that's that's what you need is that adjustability. Yeah, that's why. Yeah, that's why I like those sky pods is just for the adjustability. um But yeah, I mean, it's it's hard because they are so heavy. That's the that's the worst part. The mountain nearby i think is the best one out there right now for the hunting side. Oh, yeah, I really like him.
00:53:27
Speaker
I really like him a lot. So um yeah, man, that's cool stuff. That's really cool stuff. What are we going to go an hour into this thing? Now we could talk some more about PRS and stuff. I think that's a good, that's a good to pockets on hunting. And yeah, I think we're going to go down that rabbit hole. um We got to end this thing with a, like a hunting story every single time. Yeah.
00:53:51
Speaker
So you got some freaking good animals around you, man. You're definitely a killer. I like that buck. You got a buck with like four drop times on it up there in the corner. Should you show us that thing? Yeah, yeah. it's He's right up there. He's probably hard to see here. Dude, he's like, if you're on YouTube, you'll see it. But if you're on YouTube, I mean, this thing is like, oh, dude.
00:54:16
Speaker
He's just a freak. Holy smokes. Is he in velvet? Yeah. So he's just, he's mass and drop tines. That's all he is. I haven't even scored that buck because I have no idea how to score him. It's like probably 28 wide, but like tree trunks, like two inches round going out with like, with like four kickers. Like he's just like a buck that no one's going to pass. Yeah. He's, I bet he's got seven inch bases on him.
00:54:43
Speaker
I mean, he's a gnarly bug. Yeah. Gnarly bug. I would say like, the yeah, like two inches around or not gnarly. Yeah. a Diameter. um So tell us, tell us a story. tell a hot story um i I've got some pretty good. I would say last year's, last year's sheep hunt was probably the best one. I do. I kill a lot of big deer, but they're, most of them are private land tags. So they're nothing crazy.
00:55:13
Speaker
um But last year, sheep hu grandpa drew a sheep
Grandpa's Challenging Sheep Hunt
00:55:16
Speaker
tag. And so he he put in, I think it was like 40 days skeleton last summer. And couldn't- Is that a Rocky up there, Rocky Mountain? Yep, yeah Rocky Mountain. Yeah, we have deserts here, but they're they're pretty hard to get tags for. That was a Rocky Mountain though. And he put in all those days, skeleton. Well, and he actually has the goat tag we're going on next Tuesday.
00:55:38
Speaker
so He got the tag, put all those days in scouting. And then right before season starts, he, uh, he got to where he couldn't stay above timberline. Um, he would get super low on oxygen if he was staying in a tent. And then he would get super claustrophobic just cause he wasn't getting the oxygen. So he did that, huh? He went the first week and he kind of wanted to do it by himself. So he was going up there a lot by himself and, and trying to find him.
00:56:05
Speaker
couldn't find him, couldn't find anything. um We kept hearing about sheep. There was, I think there's seven, eight tags in the unit for Rams and couldn't find nothing. And so it was a two week tag. So we gave him the first week and the next weekend, cause it was a Wednesday tag was when it started. So it went Wednesday to two Wednesdays from then. So that last weekend he had, we were like, all right, we're coming over there. We're, we're going to help you find a sheep.
00:56:35
Speaker
So we get over there. Um, I did a 14 or the first morning, Saturday or Friday morning. Couldn't find a sheep. Couldn't find nothing. Came down and I was just toast. I wasn't, wasn't planning on on going up there. And so he went around. There was another spot that we heard that there was sheep and, and we talked to some guys that were down below hunting the unit next to it. There was a highway running through there and they were like, yeah, there was, there was Rams up there yesterday.
00:57:01
Speaker
And so he hiked up there. It was probably 3000 bird to get up there. Hikes up there. Couldn't find nothing. Couldn't find nothing. So, and this was Sunday that he did that. So me and my stepdad were like, well, we're going to go just drive up this other road and and see if we can find anything. So we drove over there and I hop out of the truck, just throw glass up. As soon as I throw a glass up, I'm like, I got sheep. He's like, are you kidding me?
00:57:28
Speaker
You're not going to like where they're at. My stepdad, he's a bigger guy. He's like, I was like, you're not going to like where they're at, but they're up there. And so I throw the spotter on there and and there's a legal Ram in there. He wanted a big Ram, but he's at this point, he was like, if it's legal, I just want to kill one. So we, I shot an in reach message off to my mom and grandpa because they were up there at the top of that mountain. We just said, get down, get over here. We got to get this sheep killed. Cause I had to be at work the next day. And my stepdad had to be at work the next day. And then my mom flew out.
00:57:58
Speaker
So they came down, they hit the truck at, oh, probably one. And we picked them up. We were headed back over to this other drainage. It was about 45 minutes from where they were. We get over there and we start hiking and couldn't find the sheep. So it looked like they, they went over cause I only seen them for probably 20 seconds. They went up and over the top and into this bull. And so they went over, couldn't find them in that. I figured they were just going to be on that hillside kind of,
00:58:26
Speaker
laying, there was some grass up there. I figured there'd be right there. Weren't there, weren't there. We kept going up and couldn't find them. And so we, there's one set of pine trees right at the area, the very end that we couldn't see in the bottom of this bowl. So we top out over that and I was like, you guys just stay here. I'm going to go run right at the base of these trees and see if I can find anything. And sure enough, I get up there and they're chilling right in the bottom of that bowl. So we had them come up there.
00:58:56
Speaker
Um, he, he was shooting a, I forget what the rifle was. It wasn't one of my rifles. It was one of the, it's like a Cooper, one of those, but it was a super, super light rifle, um, in two 80 AI. And he's like, I want to keep it under 500 yards. Well, we hit the end of those pines and that was all the cover you had. There was, there was no topography in there to keep us hidden or anything like that. We didn't have time to go over and around and up and over. And so they were right at six 20. And I was like, grab, you're going to You're going to have to make the shot right there. So he gets prone on his backpack and he doesn't shoot off the backpack very often. This was a learning experience for him. So he gets in there, shoots and misses. And I was like, Oh God, this is not good. And so they start rolling up this hill and he can't find which one's the legal Ram. He can't do that. Um, he can't run his data cause he's running all of his data off of Kestrel.
00:59:55
Speaker
And so this is where it kind of helps have a good spotter that that knows the elevation and all that. So I was behind him with my Geovids and I would range, I would check the Kestrel and then I would dial his turret and then I would watch where he was hit because it's his data was off and it was it was a shit show, the whole thing. And so he's missing, shoots high, shoots high, shoots high. This but or this ah ram runs probably 1200 vert up this hill. And I was like, Oh Lord.
01:00:25
Speaker
finally hits the Ram right at the top of the hill. So hits him once, the Rams kind of sit there. I'm like, give him another one. And he hits him again and just drops him right there. And he was pumped. So I turned around and my stepdad, and like I said, he's a bigger guy. He's just pale in the face. He's like, Oh Lord, we got to walk all the way up there. They were in the bottom of the drainage and we kind of walk all the way up there now.
01:00:52
Speaker
So anyways, we get up there right at dark and that was when I was still working for XLR. So I texted them. I got serviced from the top of the hill and texted them and said, I'm not going to be there tomorrow guys. So anyways, we, we got them all cleaned up and we got some good pictures of him and and grandpa, was he was pretty excited. Um, we, we didn't get back down to the truck till about three in the morning, but it was, it was super good. It was a good time. That's awesome. That's awesome. You grab us, do the, how old is grandpa?
01:01:20
Speaker
Uh, I don't know, to be honest, probably 68, 70 right in there. Yeah. younger up Yeah. he He runs a ranch over in over by a Glenwood, Colorado. And so he's, he's still super active last year for that sheep hunt. He was running every day. And, um, even right now, I bet, I bet he's out walking right now. I'm just getting ready for the goat hunt, but, but yeah, it it makes it kind of challenging just cause he can't stay above timberline. Um, but it's, it's good to still get them out there and, and.
01:01:49
Speaker
get up to that 13,000 foot like this, go how we're going on Tuesday. He'll be, we'll be camping down around that 9,000 foot mark. And we'll probably end up killing one around the 12 to 12 to 13 marks. So it'd be a pretty good little hike, but he's pretty excited to get up there. Good for him, man. Good for grandpa. That's an awesome, uh, story, man. This is a great podcast shade and I want to have you on again, man. I got all kinds of fun stuff to talk to you about. It's a good pod. You're good. You're good talking to, and um,
01:02:17
Speaker
All kinds of great insight and tons of knowledge, man. Where can we find well so West
Social Media Presence & Content Creation
01:02:22
Speaker
Elk Precision? Where can we buy rifles from you? Tell me all about you guys. yeah yeah Instagram and all that stuff. Yeah, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. I'm trying to do some of the YouTube videos just because it's good content to get out there. Don't expect good quality camera videos. I'm doing them with my iPhone and a little cheap mic, but um I put a lot of lot of info out on there on on stuff you can do yourself on the rifles just to make them more accurate, more reliable.
01:02:46
Speaker
Um, Facebook, Instagram, I post a bunch of, a bunch of videos on there and and pictures of rifles that I'm building. And then westockprecision.com I got the website up and I do articles from time to time on there of rifle builds and hunts and and everything along those lines. So trying to keep as much content out there as
Future Plans & Podcast Gratitude
01:03:04
Speaker
I can. So yeah, hopefully I'll probably fill in this goat hunt, um, and, and get a video out there for that too.
01:03:12
Speaker
That's awesome, dude. I really appreciate you coming on. We got to do it again, bro. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast. Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at Tricer USA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com. Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.