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Tom Evans | Red Bull | Wings For Life World Run
81 Plays3 years ago
Episode #57
Tom is a professional runner who burst on to the scene when finishing 3rd in the MDS in 2017. He is a Red Bull Partner and will be taking part in their Wings for Life World run next weekend.
To learn more about Wings for life an event where 100% OF ALL ENTRY FEES GO TO SPINAL CORD RESEARCH please go to https://www.wingsforlifeworldrun.com
Tom gives some nuggets in this interview, listen out for his thoughts on:
- Following the process
- Responsibility
- Doing the basics well
Fascinating chat with Tom, enjoy and we will see you on the next episode.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Tom Evans
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to episode 57 of the UK Run Chat podcast. I'm Joe Williams and in this episode I speak with ultra runner Tom Evans. Tom is a professional runner who burst onto the scene when finishing third in the marathon de Sableb back in 2017. He's a Red Bull partner and will be taking part in their Wings for Life world run next weekend.
00:00:23
Speaker
To learn more about Wings for Life, an event where 100% of all entry fees go to spinal cord research, please go to www.wingsforlifeworldrun.com. This is a fascinating chat with Tom. Do enjoy, and we will see you on the next episode.
Tom's Early Sports and Military Transition
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome, Tom. Thanks for coming on the podcast. How are you? Very well. Thank you very well. How are you? Yeah, I'm really good. Really good. Thank you. Thanks for hosting the chat hour last night.
00:00:53
Speaker
No, it was it was really good. It was, yeah, interesting. Definitely a different way of doing things, something I've not done before. But yes, an amazing question sort of outside the box. It's, yeah, that's always great. And hopefully, hopefully answered some people's questions. And yeah, they are more knowledgeable now.
00:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. So you really burst on the running scene, didn't you? A few years back, I was very interested in your story when it came out. For those who don't know, tell us about that first event and when you, when you started. Yeah. So I was, um, I guess I started a little bit further back. I was always really sporty when I was growing up and when I was at school and
00:01:36
Speaker
I then left school after my A levels and I joined the British army and I went to Sandhurst and commissioned into the Welsh guards. And the military is obviously, you do lots of sports and I kept playing sports and it was great for camaraderie and teamwork. And yeah, you can learn lots of lessons in sport. And I guess sort of, I kind of got to the point in my career where I didn't feel like I could turn up to work with a black eye on Monday morning after playing rugby or
00:02:06
Speaker
something similar.
The Marathon des Sables Challenge
00:02:08
Speaker
Was that your sport or was it, Tom? Was it rugby? Rugby, hockey, cricket, you name it, I would try it. Any excuse to play sports instead of having to do work. And the army has got an amazing sports policy. So yeah, I had always been fit when I was at school and I was definitely never the best sports player, but I was always
00:02:36
Speaker
the fittest and I would always seem to be better than I was because at the end of matches, I would be the one who scored the winning try or made the sort of try saving tackle. I think just because I wasn't as tired as everyone else. I had that endurance from a young age. And so yeah, it made me, I was probably pretty useless, but it made me look like I was quite useful.
00:03:04
Speaker
And yeah, I'd ended up sort of just getting into sort of doing more and more running and training with the British army. And yeah, I signed up to, um, the marathon to Saab, uh, I signed up in 2016 for the race in 2017 as part of a, part of a bet with some friends who did it in the 2016 edition and did really well, uh, finished in the top 300. Uh, and I said, ah, you guys did well, but I think I could do better. Um,
00:03:30
Speaker
after, yeah, this was after a couple of beers. Talk us through that. I was interested in that and that whole conversation. So go on, your pals had already ran it and they finished in the top 300, did they? Yes, yes. They finished in the top 300 and we were just chatting through it and I had never done any ultras, never done anything remotely similar, but thought, oh, so how hard can it be? And I'm fitter than these guys. And yeah, I genuinely believe that I can do better. And even if I finish
00:04:00
Speaker
top 200, it would be better. And yeah, just as I started doing more and more training, I got really into it. And yeah, there I was a year, so 10 months later, stood on the start line, not really knowing what to expect, having prepared, prepared on my own and sought some advice from people who had done the race previously, but it was, yeah, very much sort of a trial and error approach and still working full time in the army.
00:04:29
Speaker
And yeah, it just had, just had the most incredible experience at marathon de Saab that's yeah, fast forward a couple of years. And, uh, and here we are today now not in the army and yeah, as a professional full time ultra distance trail runner. Yeah. You very humbly didn't mention there that you finished third in that race, didn't you? Um, well, I still have to sort of pinch myself, um, to remind me that it happened. Is it such a.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's such a competitive race and to be able to do that in my first race was, yeah, fairly crazy. And I watched Martin de Saab this year, sort of dot tracking. And yeah, definitely, definitely sort of relights the fire.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah.
Discovering Endurance Talent
00:05:18
Speaker
So how much did that take you by surprise then? Because you've just said, obviously you were very fit growing up and you noticed that playing team sports and you're obviously in the military. So you're going to be very fit from that as well. How surprised were you when you came third overall? I think at the time, yeah, very surprised. And it was for me, it was just really nice to be able to compare myself to others. So I thought that I was fit.
00:05:45
Speaker
but I didn't really know what that meant in relation to other people. And yeah, so at the time, yeah, I was surprised, but then sort of the more, the more and more I look back on it, it sort of, for me, it makes, it now makes complete sense that I'm reasonably good at endurance and long events. And I enjoy the long events of looking at, yeah. So if I look back at my childhood and,
00:06:13
Speaker
this was always what I was best at school, cross countries, I would always win, but my friends didn't do cross country running. They all played team sports and I was very sociable growing up and I wanted to be part of a team and I think at the time, yeah, athletics, especially sort of the longer distances as a growing up, for me, it wasn't the done thing. So the school that I went to and then I was,
00:06:41
Speaker
I was at boarding school, so I didn't really join a, an athletics club when I was there. I sort of just did it at school and yeah, none of my friends did. And I happened to be good at it. And so I would do it on a couple of times a week. And, but that was, yeah, that was, that was about it. And, um, the only reason that I really did it and tried hard at it was so that I could, I could be better in the team sports. Um, so yeah, so looking back on it, it makes, it makes complete sense that this is,
00:07:12
Speaker
This is where I've ended up and I still love the, the camaraderie around the team. And I've sort of created it. Yes. Running is an individual sport, but actually the teamwork involved to get you onto the start line, um, is, yeah, is quite amazing. And I had sort of worked really hard in creating this team around me. So I've still got the elements of the teamwork that I like.
00:07:38
Speaker
but also the elements of sort of actually being a little bit of an introvert and then being able to go out on in these races and give everything on my own with sort of no real external motivation. Um, so yeah, for me now looking back on it, it makes, did I think I would finish third? No, but looking back on it, did I think that I would do well? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
Brilliant. And it does make you wonder, I wonder how many other sports people that are out there that went into professional team sports that always ran from childhood through to being adults, I don't know, footballers and sprinters and other sports. It makes you wonder if they channel down into running, just solely running how good they would be. Yeah, I think, yeah.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah. I think it's something, something super, super interesting, but I, yeah, you can't imagine many, uh, many footballers are going to hand in their contracts with big Premier League teams to, uh, to start professional running. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't think that will happen any, anytime soon. Good point. Um, so you mentioned some stuff about teamwork then, and you know, and you, um, and, and running as an individual, how much of it, sorry, let me go back a step.
Military Influence on Running Strategy
00:09:01
Speaker
What, how old are you when you went in the army?
00:09:03
Speaker
Uh, I was 18. 18. So to my, so I'm not a military mount on, but my, my, if I think about the military, I, and the characteristics of people in the military, I immediately think organized, disciplined fit. And the other thing that I see when I see, like you see the Royal Marine commando adverts on the TV and it's very much about teamwork and being part of a regiment, aren't you? So how.
00:09:30
Speaker
How has, because you spoke about your building a team around you then, how has your military experience helped you now that you've come over into professional running and how different is it, you know, being part of a regiment as opposed to being a, you know, a runner on your own? I think really good question. Um, I think for me, it's, there is always someone in a better place who has got a better understanding of the problem that
00:10:00
Speaker
you are facing. So whether it is an injury or your nutrition or a race strategy, never be afraid to ask for help. And that's certainly what I found in the military is I was very much a generalist and did a little bit of everything.
00:10:24
Speaker
Whereas there were some people who had spent years and years and years focusing on small niche areas who were far better suited to come up with the solution. Even though in, in theory and on paper, I was in charge, I had absolutely no idea because I hadn't done it. I hadn't done it for that long. And I was, I then wasn't afraid to ask for help. And I think that's.
00:10:50
Speaker
That's definitely the mindset that I've come into with running. Yes. I need to take 100% responsibility, even if things go wrong. And if my say, for example, if I get misdiagnosed by a physio for one injury and it actually turns out to be something else, you could be really frustrated and say, Oh, it's their fault. And they did this and they did that. And they didn't do this. They didn't do that. But actually at the end of the day,
00:11:20
Speaker
It was my decision to go to that physio. So I'm the person who has to take responsibility. So, and I think for me, not shying away from that responsibility and being able to put my hands up and say, yeah, yes, I am the person who has got to do the running, which is seen as sort of the difficult part, but actually I'm not too proud to ask for help from people who maybe you've
00:11:47
Speaker
maybe they've run for less time than I have, or they maybe haven't had the same results that I've had, or they're a physio, they're a nutritionist, they're a coach, be it whoever they are. I am more than happy to ask for help and put my hands up and say, look, my understanding of this isn't his, is nowhere near as good as yours. And I would absolutely love to have some help. And I'm more than happy to listen to anyone who's willing to give advice and
00:12:16
Speaker
Some of it you'll absorb and you'll use and other of it you might choose to ignore because actually you don't agree with it or you don't think it, but actually still at the end of the day, then you still taking that 100% responsibility. The information is out there. It's just about you trying to listen to the information and then sort it out, sieve through it, see what works and then take 100% responsibility.
00:12:44
Speaker
for your actions, whether that's speaking to people and asking for help, or it's the pace that you go out in a training run. There's no one else who's, no one else is controlling what I do. So yeah, I need to take full responsibility, even if it's not directly my decision. And I think, yeah, I think that's exactly what you do in the military. Yes. Yeah. It's very interesting. Um,
00:13:10
Speaker
You know when you,
Transition to Professional Running
00:13:12
Speaker
when you entered the marathon de Sable, you were still in the military you said then, weren't you? Yes, yeah. Was it a part of, was that the catalyst for you leaving the military to actually move into running or were you coming to the end of your career anyway? No, yeah, that was definitely the start of things and I had never imagined after doing the race that I'd be thinking about leaving.
00:13:39
Speaker
And I think for me, as I very quickly realized that consistency and planning for races and training was incredibly important. And what I was not able to do, geez, in the army, I didn't know what I was doing next week, let alone in six months time. And I compare that to now, geez,
00:14:09
Speaker
If all goes to plan, touchwood, I've planned my races. If a 2022, 2023 and 2024, I have an idea of what I would like to do and what training camps I would like to do. And there's absolutely no way I could do that in the army. And I sort of took that responsibility and said, right, in order for me to be as good as I possibly can be and to really try and find what my limits of both physical and mental endurance is.
00:14:38
Speaker
I need to take this more seriously. And yeah, I was then approached by some different sponsors who have now become partners, who truly believed in my dream and my vision of trying to find what I'm possible of doing and doing that in races and in sort of FKTs and projects subsequently.
00:15:09
Speaker
Yeah, it then got to a point in 2000 and after winning the CCC in 2018, I handed in my notice the day after with the army and sort of had to serve for another year. And because, yeah, the opportunities were too good to turn down. And again, I had to then take that 100% responsibility that you're leaving arguably one of the most stable jobs
00:15:38
Speaker
around at a, yeah, at a crux time. I was 26 at this point. Um, and yeah, in a very stable, very, yeah, a well-paying job. I absolutely loved what I did and I'd done it for the last eight years. And to all of a sudden to say, Oh no, I'm actually going to become a professional ultra endurance athlete and a trail runner, which in the UK doesn't really exist.
00:16:08
Speaker
Um, there aren't any real role models of people who are trying to do it full time. Um, whether that's, yeah, because the UK is small and there isn't that much opportunity for these. There certainly wasn't four or five years ago and it now really is growing. And yeah, I had decided that in order for me to try and reach my potential, what I needed to do was become full time and then.
00:16:36
Speaker
once I then made that decision, it was then right. You know what you have to do. Now is the problem solving part. How do you fund this? How do you get partners and sort of create this team around you who really believe in your vision and want to see you succeed as much as I want to succeed? And yeah, how do we make it work? So yeah, it was it was a pretty, pretty scary, pretty scary jump. But yeah,
00:17:06
Speaker
And certainly, yeah, I left the army in 2009, middle of 2019, and obviously not mentioning the C word. We then had, yeah, 2020, 2021, where I didn't race and I was then injured. And yeah, it was really, really difficult, but a lot of hard work before sort of creating the conditions where I was able to do this full time, even if I was injured, because I had partnered with
00:17:35
Speaker
people and companies who trusted and believed in me and in my vision, and not just in the short term, but in the long term, which is then they trusted me when I was during COVID and when I was injured, that now I'm back on start lines and back racing. So yeah, that sort of return of investment is there.
00:17:59
Speaker
I'll come on to your partners in a minute and your new injury as well. It's very inspiring what you've done as well, like you say, because people listening to this, they may be in stable jobs and have families and commitments and that kind of thing and have something that they would aspire to do or to be or to have. And hearing that story, it is inspiring. And like you said, it was a big leap that you took.
00:18:28
Speaker
It must be mentally reassuring for you to, you said that you didn't know from week to week what you were doing in the military and yet now you can plan one, two, three years ahead. How much does that help you mentally? Yeah, I think hugely. I think for me, yeah, just knowing what I'm doing is really important and I think people,
00:18:57
Speaker
really dislike the unknown. Um, that sort of suspense of not, yeah, not having that sort of security and that stability, I think can be, yeah, it can be really, really difficult. And I think for me now, it's so nice to be able to sit down and look through my calendar and speak to family and friends and say, Oh yeah, I'm going to be away for this week or this month. And I'm racing on this weekend and I, yeah, I can then plan things.
00:19:24
Speaker
Um, I'm incredibly close with my family and friends and my fiance Sophie. And there was also a professional athlete, which definitely makes things easier at points, but harder at other points because we're both trying to plan a professional racing career, um, and trying to plan a season and how do we make it work? But yeah, just having that, that foresight to be able to plan. Yeah. I think is, is super, super important because without that.
00:19:53
Speaker
then yeah, you end up sort of procrastinating and before you know it, six months has gone past and you've not really achieved anything. And with that, so like, I like sort of breaking things down and setting goals and whether it's a purely running related goal or it's a, okay, well, I'm going to, I'm big into my cooking. Um, right. I'm going to develop a new recipe that I can use on for race day minus one, for example. Um,
00:20:22
Speaker
And by doing that, it gives me, again, using that word responsibility, I then take 100% responsibility for those actions. And yeah, at the same time, I have that consistency that I know exactly what I'm doing. And I'm able to plan, not just for the week, but for the months and the years ahead. And yes, things do change. And you have to be pretty flexible and agile in your mind.
00:20:50
Speaker
that's then why I've created this team who, when problems do arise, I have these incredible minds around me, whether that's my nutritionist, or my manager, or my partners, or so for my fiance, who were able to, yeah, who were able to help and yeah, lots of minds is better than one mind. Yeah.
Teamwork and Support Networks
00:21:10
Speaker
And then you can help get people to help you with with those problems. And
00:21:15
Speaker
I think the people who are listening to this now sort of will really see this theme of teamwork, whereas actually you think running is such an individual sport, but actually the power of the team is so much stronger. And so to use the phrase, if you want to, if you want to go fast, go solo, if you want to go long, go together. And I think it's so important that whether it's people that you train with or it's having a really healthy relationship with a coach or
00:21:42
Speaker
your running group or your running friends, whoever it is, it really helps not just as a as a motivating factor, but also as a as a soundboard. Because yeah, there are there is always someone out there who knows a little bit more about a certain subject than you do. And if you honestly believe that you know, the best out of everyone, then yes, something has gone seriously, seriously wrong.
00:22:11
Speaker
Tell us about your partners then. I know you work with Red Bull and Adidas. Yeah, so I've been incredibly fortunate. I signed with Red Bull the day before I won CCC in 2018 and for me that's a huge
00:22:32
Speaker
that was a huge amount of trust put in me that, yes, I had some good results, but I hadn't had any, any huge results. And for them to sort of to put their faith in me was, yeah, was amazing. And those are the exact partners that, that I want to work with. And so I use the, yeah, I use the saying sort of, I don't, I don't kiss on the first date with partners, because actually, I wanted
00:22:58
Speaker
I don't want these partners who are around for six months or a year. I want these partners who are going to be there for the long run through the bad times and the good times. Yeah. And that's exactly what I found with Red Bull, Adidas Terrex and Garmin, who have all just been, yeah, have been there from the very beginning. And yes, there have been, yeah, bad times and good times, but the one thing that has
00:23:25
Speaker
remained constant is their support and nothing is too difficult. And I think by aligning yourself with people who have got very similar values is, yeah, it makes you want to work harder for them, but also they then want to work harder for you. And I take to the example with Red Bull, Red Bull's charity partner Wings for Life on the 8th of May have got a Wings for Life world run that is an amazing event.
00:23:55
Speaker
with the, yeah, with the goal of curing spinal cord injuries. Um, something that is, yeah, something that's incredibly close to my heart. And this event is a, it's a running race with no set finish line and a catcher car that starts 30 minutes after the runners start. And it starts at exactly the same time all around the world. And what we're doing is we're running for those who can't and.
00:24:21
Speaker
Because I've aligned myself with Red Bull and our vision is the same and our goals are very similar. What I want to do with this race is get as many people to do it. And what I want to do is with my performance, make it a talking point. And actually, yes, it's not a real race. It's a charity race. It's a fun run. But what I want to do, it's an amazing concept.
00:24:45
Speaker
It's an absolutely incredible concept. And I think it, and it was probably one of the original app runs and pre-COVID it was a, it was done on an app. So it was super accessible for everyone. And I think they've struggled maybe a little bit this year because it's an app run. And we're now through COVID and app runs have seemed to be a thing of the past, but I, yeah, I'm, I'm flying to Vienna, um, to, yeah, to really be a part of, yeah, to be a huge part of this race. And yeah, I'm super excited. It's such a great concept and.
00:25:15
Speaker
100% of the, uh, of your signup fee goes to spinal cord
Wings for Life Event and Goals
00:25:21
Speaker
research. Um, and Red Bull pick up all the costs associated with, with running the race, which I think is, yeah, incredibly rare. Um, and yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Maybe eight. Yeah. Maybe eight. Um, starting around lunchtime, depending on where you are. Um, but yeah, it's just.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's just an incredible event. And I want to, I want to give my all for my partners and my partners who end up move, trying to move heaven and earth sort of in order to allow me to do the best performance that I possibly can, because my voice is my performances. And if I can, if I can put in a real shift, uh, on the eighth of may, and hopefully it will get people talking and exposure for the charity will go up and.
00:26:06
Speaker
Yeah. The charity can then, um, yeah, more donations, which we are then helping to find a cure for spinal injury, which I think is, yeah, it's just an absolutely, uh, incredible thing. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. What have you, have you got a number in mind? What are you aiming for? Oh, that would be telling that would be telling exclusive. I think, I think I'm capable of six minute miling. Um,
00:26:36
Speaker
for a, yeah, for a fairly long chunk and to sort of to see that the, the hundred K world record is broken this weekend. I will probably go out in a similar sort of pace. Um, so yeah, just over, yeah, around six minute miling. Um, this Vienna is such a beautiful place. And yeah, my motivation for doing it is not necessarily to, to get big numbers, but
00:27:05
Speaker
Yes, I want to run big numbers so people talk about it and it helps to grow awareness for the charity. So yeah, I just really hope I can have a successful day, not for me, but for the charity and we can raise
00:27:21
Speaker
a shed load of money in order to find a cure for spinal cord injuries. Yeah, Wings for Life will run that is and I'll add links to that in our notes. Perfect, thank you. Just coming back to the, you mentioned your injury and you've been injured.
00:27:38
Speaker
quite recently, haven't you? And you were
Injury and Rehabilitation Journey
00:27:40
Speaker
speaking about your team as well. I read, um, I dug out the addition of runners world where you spoke to them after your injury and you spoke about going to the Red Bull athlete performance center. Just tell me about, tell us a bit about that injury and how you got through that and, um, and, and the teamwork bit as well that you mentioned within that performance. Yeah. Yeah. So I had a, I had a bit of a.
00:28:04
Speaker
I say a shocker of an injury to everything that could have possibly gone wrong in my right knee did go wrong in my right knee. Um, through a combination of different things. I had a, I had a full, um, thing and I tore the cartilage, but kept trying to go through it. And then that then changed my running mechanics. And that led to some serious IT band issues and more swelling. And yeah, it was a very, it was very unhealthy. Um, and looking back on it.
00:28:33
Speaker
Um, I, yes, I have to take full responsibility and I do take full responsibility and I take full responsibility that it was what my actions were completely wrong. And had I taken different actions at the start and being a little bit more sensible, would I have needed an operation? No, probably not. But I did what I did and I have to take full responsibility for that. And yeah, after I'd broken myself, it was.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah. Red Bull, um, athlete performance center based in, uh, in Austria, just outside Salzburg, uh, near the headquarters, uh, in Fuschel, um, have got this incredible setup. So that it can sort of only be described as sort of a premier league football esque rehab facility. Um, because yeah, the Red Bull want their athletes to, to perform and to be as good as they possibly can be. And.
00:29:28
Speaker
they realized that in order to win gold, you have to invest gold. And yeah, just the most incredible hands-on support, not just in Austria, but when I was in the UK, I worked closely with some different physios, predominantly a guy called Doug Jones at Altius in Manchester.
00:29:52
Speaker
who, yeah, are absolutely incredible. And we took a very sort of holistic approach and didn't just look at the injury, but thought, right, what else, what else can we do in order to get better? And then, yes, we want to fix this injury, but to make sure that things don't go wrong again. So folk did lots of Pilates, did yoga focused on core, focused on biomechanics. And yes, we've kind of ticked every box and taking that responsibility again. That's a key word.
00:30:22
Speaker
The right, yes, this has happened, but let's learn from these mistakes and let's not, let's not let it happen again. And yes, I then had to have, uh, have surgery because things had sort of gone, gone beyond what was rehabable, um, without sort of a serious intervention. Um, and yeah, I then went out to, went out to Austria to the, uh, Red Bull athlete performance center, the APC, um, just before, so for a month before Christmas and.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, with the idea of returning to running, they've got the most incredible facilities with old to G treadmills and amazing sensors and strength testing equipment that, yeah, I haven't got access to, uh, in the UK. And yeah, it was just, I sort of kind of describe it as for every week I spent out there, I probably made three weeks.
00:31:15
Speaker
gains that I would have done had I been in the UK. So yeah, just an incredible opportunity and yeah, forever, forever thankful for Red Bull for one having this facility to look after their athletes and yeah. And then allowing me to come out and train and rehab and yeah, which is consequently led me to, yeah, to be back racing where I am now and to be in the shape in the form that I am now, which I'm super happy about, which then should hopefully set me up.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah, really nicely for a big 2022. And to have that support from those partners is just incredible. Yeah, very, very good. You made a comment in that same article. You said that a lot of the rehab stuff initially was very uninstagrammable, which I thought was great. It's having that discipline to do all those little things that aren't
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose that's a great way of putting it on Instagram. They're not flashy. They're very often very, very small movements and exercises you have to just be really disciplined with, don't you, to build your base up again. Yeah. 100%. I think people like people like doing the, and even with training, people like doing the sexy sessions. They like doing the mile reps and they like doing the eight hundreds on the track and
00:32:40
Speaker
They don't like going out and doing really slow recovery runs. Um, the unsexy stuff that isn't going to get as many likes on Strava or whatever you, whatever you used to manage, whatever you used to, yeah, to see how Instagrammable or how sexy these things are. And for me, it's yeah, basic. My, my instructor going through Sandhurst used a phrase and basics done well.
00:33:09
Speaker
Uh, and that was all that he ever asked from us was that, yeah, we did the basics, but we did them really well. And I think that's what endurance is running isn't necessarily difficult. And all you are trying to do is get from A to B as quickly as possible. And that's the same for every running race that you can possibly do, whether it's a park run or it's a hundred mile mountain ultra. All you are trying to do is get your body from A to B.
00:33:39
Speaker
And that's incredibly basic and yes, you can complicate it, but it doesn't necessarily need to be complicated. And I'll sort of break things down and say, right, what do I need? What basic skills do I need to have and how can I improve them without making things completely complex? Because if I'm away for a week or a couple of days, I still want to be able to do these little exercises that are going to help with these sort of marginal gains according a British cycling phrase.
00:34:09
Speaker
And yeah, what can I do? What if I've not got access to amazing equipment and all these amazing technologies? And I think, yeah, we can get very wrapped around all the, yeah, the latest technologies and the highest powered massage gun and all these things. But actually there are a lot of more simple things that we can do rather than, yeah, spending lots of money and hoping that the results
00:34:38
Speaker
come actually a bit of hard work and dedication and discipline can go a really long way. But yeah, going to bed, not using your phone two hours before you go to bed and having a really dark room when you go to sleep isn't quite as sexy as using electro muscle stimulation before your run. And it doesn't sell. So yeah, I think it
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah, doing the basics, but doing the basics incredibly well, I think is, yeah, is something that I have learned, learned in my military career that I then brought into my running career. And I think is, yeah, it's fundamental. And it would be a, yeah, I think you would struggle to find a professional athlete who didn't do the basics very well. And you look at
00:35:31
Speaker
You look at a football, you look at a professional football team and they still do what looks like incredible, simple, incredibly simple passing drills. These are professional footballers who are running hundreds of thousands of pounds a week, but they're still doing basic drills that you would see the Loughborough under eight football team doing. Yes. And the professionals would do it much better, but it's fundamentally, it's still exactly the same.
00:36:00
Speaker
And I think it's the same for running, whether you're an Olympic gold medalist for the marathon, or you're trying to break five hours for the marathon. I think there are a lot of, there are a lot of similarities and you can both do a lot of the same things, which are the basics. Yes. The sessions aren't going to be the same and the more sexy stuff might not be the same in terms of training, but actually you can still.
00:36:22
Speaker
optimize your sleep, you can still optimize your recovery and your nutrition and do your stretching and do your foam rolling. So these basic things that, yes, they take time, but actually a fundamental for the success, sort of part of the, yeah, part of the process. And for me, I'm very process driven and use the phrase of process, not outcome. And I think that's for me, that's fundamental that I know that if I tick all these boxes and I follow the process and I do the process as
00:36:52
Speaker
as well as I possibly can, then the outcome will look after itself. And yes, sometimes that doesn't happen. People have good days, people have bad days, but yeah, I am trying to create an environment where I can do as well as I possibly can. And I think, yeah, to create conditions where success is inevitable. Yes, success can never be inevitable.
00:37:22
Speaker
but you're doing all you can in order to lay the foundations that you're increasing the chances of being successful, whether that's running an Olympic qualifying time for the marathon or it's breaking four hours for the marathon. Success is your own success. It doesn't matter what other people's goals are, but you can still learn a lot of lessons from people who are at the top of their sport.
00:37:50
Speaker
What is your truth? Tell me about your nutrition, because you mentioned that at home, Sophie is a professional triathlete, isn't she? Yes. Yeah. There's the two of you at home. What's it? Who's the chef and do you take it in turns? And what do you do? You help each other out with your nutrition strategies and what? And, you know, is it a pizza on a Saturday night? Tell us a bit more about that.
00:38:17
Speaker
We do take it in turns, but it's sort of me for 13, so for one, maybe. So yeah, I am the chef, but I love cooking. For me, I think it's really important to have things in your life where you can sort of completely relax and de-stress, and I don't have to think about running or anything.
Nutrition Strategy with Sophie
00:38:37
Speaker
I can just cook for the enjoyment. I work with a nutritionist for Red Bull.
00:38:46
Speaker
Steven Smith, and yeah, he sets sort of meal plans. And I think typically what we do is we really periodize our nutrition plan. So depending on what the training has been and what it is going to be determines what foods we're going to eat. So I think for us, what's really important is, yes, Sophie and I, we're not on the same training schedules
00:39:11
Speaker
And our carbohydrate requirements might be different on certain days. So the ability to be able to manipulate a meal that you can add more carbohydrate or take away carbohydrate and it to still be a meal. Like I've gone through phases of sort of weighing things out and having incredibly boring food for weeks on end where yeah, it is, it is just that it is incredibly, incredibly boring food.
00:39:43
Speaker
but actually now we'll make meals and we'll really, yeah, we'll enjoy sitting down together. And I think sort of that social side of, of performance, I think, yeah, being able to mentally relax is really important and actually is a huge, huge performance. Um, it's a huge performance game because if you are sort of constantly worrying about things and weighing everything that you ate and yeah, it becomes, yeah, it becomes really, really difficult and
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, so we will sit down at the beginning of the week and our training looks pretty similar week in, week out. So we know right on a Tuesday night is going to be slightly higher carbohydrate because so it's got a long ride and I've got a long run, but actually on a Friday night, it might be a little bit different. And we might say, okay, well actually we'll go, we've both had easy days and we've got easy days tomorrow. Let's have a slightly lower carb day, but actually let's make it really fun and let's have
00:40:43
Speaker
let's make sushi together or something but then being able to say okay well actually yeah let's do we've got a big ride let's do yeah let's do some nice sourdough pizzas we've got a pizza oven here and yeah i think it's food is is incredibly important and we've both got such a healthy relationship with food that you don't have to cut anything out sort of things in moderation is is great and yes 99 of the time we are really
00:41:13
Speaker
I say really good with food, as long as we're getting, yeah, as long as you're recovering enough from a session and fueling enough for the next session, then yeah, then that's great. And I think if you're too strict, it can, yeah, it can lead to problems pretty quickly. And yeah, finding the right balance of what works and yes, it doesn't have to be over complicated, but actually for me, I really enjoy cooking and I like making meals
00:41:42
Speaker
things coming together rather than just having some rice, some broccoli and some chicken. I'd much rather make something that is tasty to eat and just because it's tasty doesn't mean it has to be
00:41:58
Speaker
unhealthy. You can tell your passion about it because you described it as the social part of your training. I think it's so important. I spend so much time outside training and suffering that actually I want my meals to be really enjoyable and I want to be able to either sit at the table or sit in front of the telly and be able to eat something that tastes really nice and be proud of
00:42:24
Speaker
what I'm, yeah, be proud of what I'm making. And I think food is such a, yeah, it's such a huge part in, yeah, in a professional athlete's life. And so the saying, you can't out train a bad diet, I think is, is so true. And I found sort of as my, as my nutritionist got better, my consistency with running is so much better. I don't have stomach, I used to have some stomach issues, but now sort of,
00:42:51
Speaker
with periodization of food, I know what to avoid at what times. And yeah, by taking that, going back to the word responsibility again, yes, I have nutritionists. Yes, I have a meal planner, but actually I'm still the one who's eating it. I'm still the one who's cooking it. So I'm the one who's got to take that 100% responsibility. And I know that if I eat really well, then I am setting those conditions for success. But I know if I eat really, I know that if I eat badly,
00:43:18
Speaker
then my training is going to suffer. I'm going to feel worse in myself. Um, and yeah, I'm not setting those conditions for success. And after a race, yes, there is time to go to your favorite cafe. And, or if you're going on an easy ride, having coffee and cake and enjoying things like that, but at the same time being prepared to sort of go on a training camp and really knuckle down and, and make sure it's all right. But you can't be, you can't be at the top of the mountain the whole time. There has to be peaks and troughs and
Life Beyond Running
00:43:48
Speaker
yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
That's how that's how we get better. Otherwise you end up just plateauing and not enjoying it as much. So yeah, I think, yeah, it's a, it's a huge part in, yeah, a huge part in our lives and yeah, I want to enjoy it as, as much as I possibly can.
00:44:04
Speaker
Is that your favourite non-running hobby? Any others? Did you fancy doing any other Red Bull sports, like chucking yourself off the side of a cliff with wings? Yeah, I would like to. Yeah, so hobbies are sort of a funny one. Yeah, I'm hugely, hugely involved with sport, but as we've got a proper sort of family life at home, we've got 10 chickens, two dogs and a tortoise.
00:44:32
Speaker
so yeah they are they are very quickly becoming a hobby as well and yeah we end up being so busy that actually at the end of a long day i love to be able to yeah cooking probably is sort of the yeah my main hobby outside it's something that i do three at least three times a day every day um and yeah i absolutely love it and for me it allows me to yeah to be able to sort of
00:44:56
Speaker
sit back, take a deep breath and just relax and not think about sport or taking the dogs out for a walk. I'm a big coffee drinker and I've turned into a serious coffee snob, which I think a lot of people have over the last couple of years now that making nice coffee at home is so accessible. And yeah, I think it's great.
00:45:21
Speaker
a great to have things outside of sport, uh, yeah, that you can still set goals for, but maybe they're not. So performance goals, but you can still have, uh, some direction. So, you know, where you're going. Yeah. Nice. But my niece has a tortoise called William. How about ours is called Herman.
00:45:41
Speaker
They're quite mesmerizing, even though they don't move very quickly. You just, you can't take your eyes off them when they're plodding. No, they're great. Absolutely love him. Yeah, he is. He is great. Absolutely loves, loves kale and strawberries. Very good. Tom, it's been, it's been great chatting. Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks again for hosting the chat hour on Twitter last night. I'd love to talk more.
00:46:11
Speaker
If anyone wants to connect with you, I know your social channels are Tom Evans Ultra, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how you get on next week with the Wings for Life world run. Perfect. Thank you. Thanks very much. And yeah, if anyone's got any questions, just reach out, but yeah, great fun and great to chat in. Yeah. Thanks so much. Cheers, Tom. Thanks.