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Wyoming Born, Western Built: The Rise of Maven Optics – Mike Lilygren
282 Plays17 days ago
In this episode of the Tricer Podcast, Drew Miles talks with Mike Lilygren, co-founder of Maven Optics, to dive into the story behind one of the most respected names in western hunting optics. Mike shares how he left the corporate world to help build Maven in Lander, Wyoming—where a passion for the outdoors, community, and innovation drives everything they do. From binos, and spotting scopes to rifle scopes, learn how Maven’s direct-to-consumer model delivers premium optics at a price hunters can actually afford. They also discuss the value of relationships in the gear industry and how a deep connection to hunting and climbing informs their design process. A must-listen for anyone serious about backcountry glassing and western big game hunting.
MIKE LILYGREN
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mavenbuilt/
Website - https://mavenoptics.com
TRICER USA
Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
#Tricer #TricerTripods #WesternHunting #BackcountryHunter #MavenOptics #HuntingGear #SpottingScope #RifleScope #BigGameHunting #DIYHunter #PublicLandHunter #MountainHunting #HuntWyoming #OpticsMatter #TricerPodcast #HuntMoreGlassBetter #DirectToConsumer #GearTalk #HuntingInnovation #HuntHardGlassHard
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Transcript
Tricer Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners.
00:00:17
Speaker
We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen. Yeah, we were just joking.
Meet Lilligreen from Maven Optics
00:00:24
Speaker
We should recording the whole time. We've already done 20-minute podcasts. i've impressed and record I record. I've got my friend Lilligreen on the pod today from Maven Optics. Mike, how are you doing? and I'm doing great.
00:00:34
Speaker
Doing great.
Why Direct-to-Consumer Works?
00:00:35
Speaker
Man, Maven is is just an awesome brand, and a brand that I've been using for a long time. Spotters, they're eighteen s I have a pair of their 12s.
00:00:45
Speaker
Small spotter, I've got their rifle scopes. Just a brand who's done things unique in the optic space by just being their only direct-to-consumer, DTC. You can't go buy their stuff at Cabela's or Bass Pro or any of these places.
00:01:02
Speaker
You can only buy it from Maven. And by doing so, they've been able to create just some of the most high-end optics in the industry at a price that the blue-collar guy can afford.
00:01:12
Speaker
And I think it's been very appreciated. So Mike, how you doing, man? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. You know, I get the, not only do I get to talk to real consumers and real people using real products um all the time, but I also get to live in the middle of Wyoming um and, and have beautiful days out in the mountains. um You know, I'll go up so but to, I was just telling, telling you about this where we'll go up tomorrow afternoon and just like in 15 minutes, be up in the mountains and ah right where we, where we hunt elk in the fall.
00:01:40
Speaker
And yeah, go get to just pull out some, uh, some firearms and shoot some stuff. So, um, test some products. So yeah, it's a beautiful day here in Wyoming. Yeah. It's really neat. And it's neat how, like you talk about you being in Wyoming, right? Cause you're not in like the, the capital of like where you should, you should be in Salt Lake, right? Like I'm in Salt Lake, right? You should be in Salt Lake, right You should be in Bozeman, right? No, you're in what's a town you're in in
Founding Maven Optics: A Leap of Faith
00:02:06
Speaker
Wyoming? Lander.
00:02:07
Speaker
Lander. So we actually, yeah the three of us who started the company, I mean, the the literal honest truth is ah we were we we quit our corporate jobs because the the company we're working with got bought out. we We're so pissed off.
00:02:20
Speaker
And we sat around a campfire and thought, what do we know? And who do we know um about the industry within the industry that we can live in the town we love to live in? because we love lander wyoming we're raising our families here we're doing our thing whether it's for me it was i moved here to be a rock climber and i'm still a rock climber but i'm also an avid elk hunter um yeah antelope hunter i love to get out there my buddies cade and brandon who i started the company with love to fish love to bird hunt love to big game hunt and we just wanted to live in this town and and we realized that there was an opportunity happening in the industry
00:02:59
Speaker
where you could be direct to consumer. um We happen to have really strong relationships in the optics industry to be able to produce products that could be the best in the world, compete with the best in the world.
00:03:12
Speaker
um But with that direct to consumer model, like you were just pointing out, you can offer a price point that the average Joe can afford it. You like cut out that middleman markup and offer a price point that it's aggressive. So we literally were sitting around saying, how do we live in this town? What do we know? Who do we know? And we've built everything on making good product, living in Wyoming and relationships and it's relationships that make this worth doing.
00:03:41
Speaker
So yeah.
Product Expansion: Listening to Consumers
00:03:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's actually a really beautiful story. i was actually talking to Cody Rich about this last week with your whole story because I've been to your plant, your yeah warehouse out there. it's It's phenomenal. It's awesome. And you really just built your business around your life, not your life around your business.
00:03:55
Speaker
Yep. and change the whole community through doing so and employ a bunch of people and do that. What were you guys doing before? Were you in the industry before? We were. So the the three of us met at Brunton, um which is ah an industry in Riverton, Wyoming. It was a a historic compass manufacturer ah made these and still does make these really high quality professional compasses.
00:04:17
Speaker
Well, that company was in Colorado It was found in Colorado in the 1890s, was purchased in the 1970s by a group in Riverton, Wyoming, and moved up there.
00:04:29
Speaker
And they started getting into binoculars in the 1980s, camp stoves in the 1990s, solar panels in 2000. So I was in charge of product development there for about eight years.
00:04:42
Speaker
um My partner, Brendan, was in charge of marketing and design for about 10 years. And my partner, Cade, was in charge of sourcing, warehousing, logistics ah for about six years. We all met there, but that company was purchased by ah the company that owned Gerber Knives in 2008.
00:05:00
Speaker
in twenty or two thousand And eight and so Or 2006, I guess. And did by 2008, they had taken over the company. They had integrated the sales force.
00:05:10
Speaker
And we just really didn't like the direction that company was going. um you know Their their built model was built around Walmart and the military, um which are viable customer base. it just It's not where you want to be when you make want to make good stuff.
00:05:27
Speaker
And so we left that company 2008, terrible time to start a new company. But we we started a product development firm um and started working for other people.
00:05:37
Speaker
We did that for about ah five years and realized that it wasn't it wasn't satisfying. Here's designing products for other people. They're saying had this idea. yeah want to design it and do it. Yep. And so we were we either taking their idea, more often taking our idea and bringing it to them and saying, oh, here's a fly rod, a Tenkara style fly rod or a tent or so or a sleeping pad. or We had a whole assortment of products.
00:06:03
Speaker
We're mostly making for small, mid-sized dealers um and then and then designing, sourcing, doing all that. But yeah, none of it had our name on it.
Maven's Commitment to Quality
00:06:12
Speaker
So we'd make cool stuff and then it'd be like, oh, that belongs to this other customer.
00:06:17
Speaker
um So yeah, it was, we around 2013, well, in 2013, we realized that we had an opportunity, we could launch our own brand. And that's when we we kicked into the Maven gig. So now it's been shoot 12 years.
00:06:31
Speaker
and And as you mentioned, we're at, 22 people here. So it used to be like, how do we make a living and survive for the us and our families? Now it's, we have a really big family. We have a really nice building.
00:06:43
Speaker
We're a strong part of the lander community and that's what we want to maintain now. So. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. And I can't believe it's, oh man, 2013. That's pretty quick. I think first got my hands on some Maven stuff in probably 2016, 2017. was on a hunt over in ah Arizona because I had had some, some swarobinos.
00:07:03
Speaker
And my buddy's like, hey, I bought these Mavens. And I was like blown away. I'm like, wow, this is pretty awesome. What is Yeah. And then it's such a unique – like I love using Maven in my ads and stuff. And you see it a lot because it's such a unique looking product, right, with the orange and the stuff. And, you know, if I don't have any of the whacked out. Like, you know, you guys do some cool stuff with like, you know, camouflages and stuff and Cryptex. And think you can do some Kuyu stuff.
00:07:25
Speaker
yeah But um it was really kind of unique. And it really kind of took – and it's kind of like a grassroots movement, yeah? Yeah, we definitely, I mean, we decided early on and the reason we use the term Maven, um a Maven means a trusted influencer, an expert.
00:07:41
Speaker
um We were using that in our in our business plan as we were starting up. We're like, how do we seed the market? How do we get people, influence people? And we decided instead of going from the top down and going through big ad base, ah magazines, retailers, we would start from the bottom up and work within the industry to have encouraged people to use our product and that the we would word of mouth would be the secret to our exposure.
00:08:08
Speaker
And so, yeah, it does start this little grassroots movement. We still do a lot of surveys with our new customers and 70% of our new customers buy our product because they heard about it from somebody they know and trust.
00:08:22
Speaker
whether it's their hunting buddy or somebody they follow on Instagram. But it's we're not we really don't want to be buying our ad position. ah Well, we can't ah afford the kind of buy ads that someone like Swarovski can do.
00:08:36
Speaker
um And so we yeah and we're okay with that slow growth model. Like really in the end, it's about supporting the industry, supporting our employees, supporting each other and not worrying about ah being a billion. We don't need to be Vortex. We don't want to be Vortex.
00:08:53
Speaker
I mean, we've all seen where the direction of that company has gone. Great people, great product, but or good product. But –
00:09:03
Speaker
it It's, they're so big. They're, they're, they're, you know, they're drinking their own Kool-Aid. They're, they're, they're swallowing themselves up. The same thing that happened to Bushnell 30 years ago. um
Handling Product Failures: A Maven Approach
00:09:13
Speaker
We don't want to do that. We just want to continue to be the niche product we are. We want to make stuff we're proud of.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's actually really admirable because, you know, like I look what I'm building right now and I am going into some of these other markets. I am doing this stuff, right? Like i I'm growing and i do, i always say i do want to be a Vortex. I do want to be a SIG. I want that recognition.
00:09:32
Speaker
It's kind of where I want to be like in the tripod space, right? But you guys have been so core, like like speak to that. Like what is it like you guys have had a set of principles since the beginning yeah and haven't moved from them.
00:09:45
Speaker
Like it's just like, this is what we're going to do. I guess you did go and you did make like ah ah lower hours, you would have made an entry level product. You did, that you diverted that way. You'd made some entry level stuff. Cause originally it was just like, we're only gonna make the tie in stuff.
00:09:57
Speaker
Right. You guys didn't realize we didn't make some entry level stuff as well. yeah if You guys have been real true to your, your values in that. Like you have not gone. And like, I know for a fact, people are trying to get you guys to go into stores. Like I know for a fact, like I know that shields would love to have you.
00:10:10
Speaker
Oh yeah. We've had shields, uh, Cabela's before they were bought by best pro was really knocking on our door. I'm sure they will again. um And no, we've told every one of them to piss off. Like we've told them just, no, we're sticking to our values.
00:10:23
Speaker
You are right in that in the beginning, I mean, our value always has been to make product we're proud of. um And in the beginning, that meant make the best we can.
00:10:34
Speaker
But we realized as people were coming and we do, what we talked about this before we, we hit play on tape, but um we do a lot of consumer shows and we realized at the shows, we were telling a lot of people, no,
00:10:47
Speaker
Because they would come up, they'd say, show me your bino. You know, we'd show them our eight by 42 or 10 by 42 and it'd be a thousand bucks. Well, thousand bucks is still a lot of money, right? You know, yeah, it competes with a $2,000 optic, but it's a lot of money. And so they were like, well, I'm not ready for a thousand dollars. And so we said, well, you know, go buy something else.
00:11:05
Speaker
Go buy some WMAX. Right. Come back when you're ready. And that was a bad move. And so we realized that and launched our C-Series in 2000. in two thousand ah geez, you would think i would know that off the top my head, but probably right around 2017.
00:11:21
Speaker
And um yeah, we launched our C-Series. So we're looking at a $300, $400 price point, much more achievable, still a great optic, still lifetime warranty, um but it gives you an opportunity to to step in something without having to pull the trigger at a thousand bucks.
00:11:37
Speaker
it gets them into the brand, right? so like Exactly. So i know for like I know for a fact that, and I i i don't knock Vortex. I have Vortex in some my rifles. i got um I got their optics. I've got, and I know for a fact that the Vortex's core is um the Diamondback binocular, which I think is a garbage binocular, but they say that's what they sell the most of, right? They sell...
00:11:59
Speaker
hundreds of thousands of but not vortex diamondback binoculars every year but yeah but now if i'm at maven and i'm sending them over hey go buy pair diamondbacks come back to me you know what they're going to buy next is a pair of vipers exactly or they're going to move to razors yeah i've gone i went i've done that i've got the vortex diamondbacks i've got the vipers and i've got the razors now right like and and you don't want to give them the chance to have that because like you want to get them into maven you want to give them that C series, they're probably going upgrade. that's how optics work. That's why always say like the whole buy once cry once thing is, is very relevant in optics. Cause like you're buy a set of, uh, you're going to the C series, which is a great bino.
00:12:34
Speaker
They need to come out home with me and I'm going to have my B ones. You're going to like, Holy smokes. Yeah. These are like HD compared to these C's. Yeah. You're going to buy them. Right. But at least if but if they had the vortex diamond backs, they're probably gonna go buy the razors or the vipers.
00:12:47
Speaker
Not exactly. Not this, not the B series, you know? Absolutely. you There's definitely brand loyalty in the industry. And especially if you can um you could you can gain it, you can lose it. But if you have a good track record with that brand, you're going to keep going along.
00:13:03
Speaker
um We are seeing more and more people move over to our brand that have had falters in that track record. So they've they've jumped onto a brand, they've moved along. And Vortex is a good example, but there's others.
00:13:15
Speaker
um And they've gone on and they've had... quality issues, they've had performance issues, or they go out like you just said, and they go out with their buddy and they say, oh crap, there's ah here's a whole different brand I can go with.
00:13:26
Speaker
But if you can get them on with your brand, you can keep them satisfied, you can you know you not let them down, you're going to grow with them through their ages, through their their pocketbooks, whatever but for growth you have.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and that's the truth too, is like people who buy Tricer now, they continue to buy Tricer, right? Like they're buying my Biopugs, they have my tripod, right? And they're buying the new head because they have this, right? And then there might possibly be some really cool tripods coming next year, you know? And they're going buy that tripod because it's really cool.
00:13:59
Speaker
Right. there's loyalty there. Right. And a lot of that comes from us being, well, I'm not saying our stuff doesn't break. We break stuff. People break. We sell, you know, 10,000 tripods a year. We break some tripods. People, things happen. Like I've had panheads bend, right? Like a guy emailed the other day, like, dude, my backpack was up in the top my rafters in my garage and it fell off and I broke my panhead. And my, like, what do you want me do? I'm like, send me new panhead.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah. That's a customer for life. It cost me a panhead. Sure. That guy, when he goes to buy, you know, his kid a tripod, buying a tricer because he knew that when his backpack fell off or, you we have run their stuff over. We got guys, I mean, you guys have done it. Like I see my backpack. I put my backpack roll off a hill and go for a 500 yard roll down a cliff, you know, and mess some stuff up.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah. you know We have horses rolling over on top of horses. gonna be Terrible. horse Oh my gosh. well these thing Fires four wheelers. I mean, I've, I'm, I gotta tell you that there's a group big core group of people who buy side by sides and four wheelers who just should not own them because they can't not run over shit.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah. but um But yeah, we back it up, send them a new one or repair it. A lot of our optics can be repaired in a way that you'd be surprised where like they're not really disposable, um but ah the you know especially lens breakage. or But you bend a frame, you break a frame, obviously you roll a horse over on top of it.
00:15:18
Speaker
It's <unk>s rarely going to survive. But yeah, you back them up. you We do an unconditional lifetime warranty. I always say not no questions asked because I want to know the dumb stuff you did.
00:15:28
Speaker
i also want to get better. So I want to learn and see if make sure we can make better things if we can. so Yeah, all the broken stuff still comes to my house. It's probably going to have change because i'm we're selling too much stuff, you know. We're doing thousands of orders a month now. Oh, yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
So, like, if I get it broken, you know, whatever. lots Most of time, it's dumb. People do dumb things, right? Like, I've had guys put their tripod up against a table and shear a 300-way mag and shear both legs off, and then call me trying to lie, you know.
00:15:53
Speaker
right Like, oh, my tripod broke. me see a picture. And it's sheared in half like a saw. And I'm like, did you put against table? She's like, yeah. i was like well, don't lie to me. Just tell me the truth and I'll replace it. you know i ninety i would say 90% of our stuff that breaks is just sheer. Someone does something stupid.
00:16:07
Speaker
oh yeah But it happens, right? like I mean, dude, it's very easy to lean your bow up against your side-by-side and take off and run your bow over. you know It happens every year. People run their bows over. Things happen. Yeah. You know, and and I don't advertise like, oh lifetime vortex warranty. We take care of people just like we do.
00:16:22
Speaker
Right. Like we just take care of them I want to know like what happened and what was your straightforward? We're going to replace it We're going to fix it. Like tell the team all the time, like, you know, a $300 panhead is not worth a bad review on Rockslide.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah. Amen. Yep. i mean, yeah, we're, we're right with you. Rifle scopes have got to be the worst though. as We've moved more and more into that industry. There are more, uh, more just dumb mistakes that people are doing over cranking things, under cranking things, um, not understanding how to set up a firearm.
00:16:55
Speaker
I just can't, we can't emphasize enough that if you're not an expert, Just go see an expert. There are so many people out there that know how to
Gear Maintenance Anecdotes
00:17:04
Speaker
mount a rifle scope. Go to your gun shop.
00:17:07
Speaker
Have them help you mount your rifle scope. Do it right. If you don't own a torque wrench, go on Amazon and buy a torque wrench. They're cheap. 40 bucks, dude. Get that Wilson torque wrench, like the Wilson screwdriver, yellow wrench, or I've got some other one here now. That's a red one. I got it. Yeah, man.
00:17:25
Speaker
It's, I actually have videos on my YouTube. If you listen to this, you want to watch. I think I install my Maven scope on my rifle on YouTube. I put a video up for me how to do it with, go buy some levels, do it right and torque it on there correctly. Right.
00:17:37
Speaker
But man, Mike, I'll tell you what, I don't hope I don't offend anybody listening this. There are some stupid people in the world. And those are typically the guys who are the loudest. Yep. Right. They're the ones who like, I, have you have no idea how many guys get so upset. And we ship our tripods. always sit up, ship out inverted. So they're folded over on themselves. Right.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yep. They can't get their pan head to go smaller. Yeah. They can't get their pan head to attach to the hang hook. Right. Right. Cause the tripod's upside down. Right. Or they put it together totally backwards, you know, or they pull things apart before listening. Right. And then they'll go and bash you online and you're like, did you know that this is a screw? Do you know there's this? right Right. That's why you look at our new tripods and there's like four set screws.
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah. Like we have set screws on, we have set screws holding down the top cap. Now three sets is coming up now. Oh, that's excellent. Just because we're just realizing that people just don't, you we have to make it so, i don't want to idiot proof. Sorry. Everyone listen to this, but it's always the, it's always the guys who, you know, they go out to the range and they dial their scope all the way down.
00:18:36
Speaker
to to where it can't go anymore. Like to the bottom. Yeah. It was bottom. Right. And they're trying to shoot and their scope's not tracking and it's not doing this stuff. And it's your fault. They missed this animal. And it's just like, right. Man, like I can cytoscope in now.
00:18:48
Speaker
In five rounds. I mean, easily, im you should be pretty damn near. I might be doing some little clicks after that, but like, I get you within five rounds, get you on. And I always, dude, a bore sight. Buy a bore sight. It's cheap. $10 on Amazon. $10 on Amazon, probably buy one.
00:19:03
Speaker
Put it in there. Sight your gun in Put it into your your vice. Get it close. Or even just put it onto a freaking bag. Get it close on the fence in the yard. to the range. Shoot one at 25 yards.
00:19:14
Speaker
Make a couple adjustments. Go to 100. And you're bringing it in probably... probably within a six inch circle, bring it down. You're right there. Yep. You know, but, uh, it's so fast.
00:19:25
Speaker
But if you don't know how to bore sight, if you don't know how to mount a scope, just go talk to someone who does. Yeah. Like there's plenty of people out there. There's plenty of YouTube videos like yours that you can go on and learn quickly how to do it correctly instead of just trying to, trying to wing it tightening by feel. Yeah.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah. yeah No, it's, um, it is unfortunate. And it is shocking how, like I'll, I go the range often when they go to the range, I'll take time and sight someone's gunning for them. Cause I see them there and they're spinning the same. They cannot figure it out. They're going the wrong way. They're going opposites. They're going, right.
00:19:59
Speaker
And it's just like, Hey, what's bringing it, what's bringing you in close. 25 yards first. You know, because these guys are around 300 yards, you can't hit the target. Well, yeah, because you need to get yourself 25 yards first. Get yourself down and close and then then do it. it's It's not that hard once you do it. I mean, honestly, go get a pellet gun and do a pellet gun.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. Practice that way because it's it's expensive shooting a 30-06. You're shooting three bucks night pull that trigger, man, and you're just sitting there just shooting. You're not even hitting the target, you know? Yep. Yeah, we do a lot with 22. We do group shoots here. So, a lot of our employees come in. They don't have a lot of hunting or shooting experience.
00:20:31
Speaker
So, It's a big team building thing for us to all go out to the range. I mean, the range is a mile down the road. um We have a key. We can drop in there off hours. um And so going down there, getting comfortable with firearms and then getting comfortable with the the mounting and sighting and process.
00:20:48
Speaker
um And we, of course, do a lot of that for for customers here, but it's great for our staff. And, you know, some of one of our guys, Alan, started out on on helping us with our golf business, but that man...
Feedback on Maven's RS1 Rifle Scope
00:21:00
Speaker
has killed more animals in the last two years than probably half the rest of the company combined. He is so on board and it was all just about getting a chance to get out there and try it.
00:21:10
Speaker
on And, and of course we live in the heartland of it. So, I mean, you've come out here for an antelope punt. It's, ah it's so much fun to get out and you, and you get wide open spaces. I keep looking out my window. Like you can see what I'm looking at here, but I've been in your office. I see. yeah It looks beautiful.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah. i you You didn't give yourself one in the basement. You're definitely a good view. Yeah, I definitely have a good view. So, you know, figure I write the checks, so I at least get a chance to look out the window. Yeah, it's a...
00:21:38
Speaker
It's neat, man. I love what you guys are doing. Let's talk. we should talk about the Rivalscopes because I think like you're like your RS1 really kind of took the industry by storm, right? Like yeah I always joke around the rock slide is like have love hate relationship with them because right now my bipod is blowing up on there. But man, they could find a way just to tear you apart.
00:21:54
Speaker
like they're They're pretty pissed off about me not putting. I have panning in my bipod. and They don't want panning. So there's a whole thread about that. Right. right They're very armchair quarterbacky over there. Oh yeah. but But man, like those guys on rock slide, like there's a reason why I'm running RS 1.2. You can't, when they come in stock, our rocks, I have a thread saying, Hey, they're stock. Go buy them. And they're buying you guys out. Oh my gosh.
00:22:15
Speaker
So we launched our original RS one. I mean, the reason it's called RS one is because it's rifle scope. Number one. And so we originally launched the RS1. That was our first rifle scope that came out.
00:22:27
Speaker
It was a two and a half to 15 by 44, 30 mil tube, workhorse of a rifle scope, but it was capped turrets, right? And so, cause that's, we're hunters, like we weren't dialing to shoot.
00:22:38
Speaker
So we're capped turrets. We love it. It's still i still what I run on my hunting rifle. um But at the urge of a lot of our of our avid customers, including some guys on Rockside, we're we launched that same scope with an adjustable turret or with an exposed turret, exposed to elevation turret, still capped windage.
00:22:58
Speaker
um and ah and And to be honest, like ah we also have a love-hate relationship with those guys on Rockside because on one hand – Well, on the main hand, they are real users.
00:23:10
Speaker
They're guys that really use every freaking day all the time and really hard. So you should listen to them. But like any real user, they have very strong opinions.
00:23:22
Speaker
And they have very strong opinions on some of the niche columns that can be right or can be wrong. It doesn't really matter. Like it really doesn't matter whether you shoot m MOA or, or mill.
00:23:34
Speaker
It doesn't matter. They're both awesome. But If you love mill, you love mill. And those the the they you know those guys love mill. And so it's we sell out of the mill version of that RS 1.2, and we still have MOA sitting in stock.
00:23:49
Speaker
I'm an MOA guy. That's the language I speak. And hell yeah, that's great. Now i on my 6.5 Creedmoor and now on my 7 PRC, I have the MOA version. It's easy for me to get.
00:24:02
Speaker
But anyway, um we built that exposed turret version, and Rockside guys, of course, did their... at the time, actually fairly unsystematic. Now it's fairly systematic, extreme drop test.
00:24:16
Speaker
Yeah. um Anybody who drops their gun like that is one of those aforementioned idiots that doesn't take care of their product. That being said, it's nice that a product passes that the idiot proof test.
00:24:29
Speaker
And those of us who will fall down occasionally when we walk around, myself included are glad to have a very durable product that you know they can live up to that test it won i think it won the drop test i mean it yeah it was like the best yeah and not only that like it's just all around i can't think of a better hunting scope right now i think mine's what it's two and a half to 15 is that what it is yep two and a half it gives me everything i want in a rifle scope out to as far as i want to shoot and i shot a buck at 20 yards this year with my rifle and
00:25:00
Speaker
At two and a half You can tell it. Right. At two and a power. And it was, it's even at two and a half power. All I could see was deer. At the surface, deer was, and I'm like, my gosh, if I was using my VX3i, which I used to use, which is four and a half,
Understanding Ballistics and Environmental Variables
00:25:12
Speaker
I might not have found in this buck at 20 yards. Probably lost the buck.
00:25:14
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that's the thing is that a lot of, you know, it's, it's great out to a thousand, 1500 yards, depending on what you're shooting, which is more than most people should ever, way more than most people should ever hunt.
00:25:27
Speaker
It's all in the scope you need, but to have that opportunity at two and a half, if you, especially being an elk hunter, getting into the dense timber out here, there's, I run, I keep mine on six all the time as I'm walking around.
00:25:39
Speaker
But as soon as I walk into the timber, I drop it to two and a half. And, uh, it's great to be able to see the the the amount of light that thing brings in is insane. It's like, Oh, it's, it's phenomenal. Uh, I almost never use the red dot on it.
00:25:52
Speaker
I don't know. People love that. I don't, I don't, I don't, I would never even think turn it on. Like I never get to turn it I don't know. It has a red dot in there. i don't use that, but I do. I keep on a two and a half. But what I do with mine is I set my guns in a hundred yards now and I keep my turret at like two.
00:26:08
Speaker
Oh, okay. So you're always set for a 200-yard shot. So you're set for like a 250-yard shot. That way like stuff happens, right? And you panic, right? Right. Yeah, you're still in the realm. Still in the realm. I'm right there. Get it done. Especially on the elk. I'm probably going to get $300 of that. I'm still good Yeah.
00:26:23
Speaker
i shoot i c sight mine in i I shoot at 100 yards, but I sight mine in high. So I'm sighting in at a 200 yard. um the This local shooter that we've been dealing with, that's working with on product development, convinced me how much better you are when you're sighting at 100.
00:26:37
Speaker
um Because you can just see so much more detail. that's why I 100 yards. bringing in that that that variability of it bringing that down so much more i used to always cite at 200 and i realized that um the the amount of information that i can see is so much less um that it's not it's you you gain that advantage but i just aim high i know my ballistics so i i just cited in at a higher point so i'm still cited at 200 but it it's, it's again, it's just like the MOA versus MRAD. There's no right way to do it. no right way to do it. So like all my kids' guns, like pretty much every rifle up until the last couple of years, I signed it in 200. So all my kids' guns, their partner's guns are actually, signed them in at 100 and I bring them up, whatever, inch and three quarters or whatever, which is, you know, seven, seven MOA right now. i'm trying to do MILRADs, but i don't know, because they're doing PRS and it's a cool thing to do, which is super confusing for me. I feel like it's nowhere near as fine, fine as MOA, but whatever.
00:27:31
Speaker
um I digress on that. And then I said, that's the rifles, 200 yards zero. yeah And then they go from there. Right. Um, but I, on my gun, I guess i assume at a hundred yards zero now, cause it's just so easy for me to be like, I want to shoot out in the middle of that X right there. That's it. Right.
00:27:44
Speaker
I can get a good group right there. And then now I can just, if I'm hunting, I shouldn't the thing to one and a half. I know my ballistics are, I'm good to go. It's 200 yards zero. Now cause it's just turned to one and a half. What's the difference? Um, And don't need to worry about it.
00:27:56
Speaker
Exactly. And that and the the key always is know your firearm, know your ballistics, ah and just go shoot as much as you possibly can. yep There's no substitution for trigger time.
00:28:08
Speaker
And we all learned that from archery, but it's so much more true. It's so true with with with firearms as well. hundred percent 100%. So yeah, that scope has just been crushing it. Do you guys have them in stock right now?
00:28:21
Speaker
We do. We're in stock right now. Yeah. We just, and we're actually have some, um, coming in, uh, in two more weeks. So we're going to be great for the, for hunting season this year. So yeah. Hunting season. It's when I know that it was, it's never in stock. I've been able to get mine. Cause I know a guy who works at Maven. So I've been get my stock, my scopes, but, uh, I know that whenever I want them, they're never in stock and people are like I can't believe you've got a BS one. i'm like, yeah, i kind of know.
00:28:45
Speaker
Mike yeah me up. Right. But, uh, I love that scope. It's on all, yeah you guys, if you see my, the Woodstock 30-06, I've been shooting all the ads, everything. It's Maven scope on there. Gorgeous. Yeah. it's It's got Maven scope on there. Actually, be there's going to coming out after this is out right now. I see my gun like in a creek and it's hard maven Maven on there. So I love i love that scope. it's It's the scope I recommend to anybody right now for looking for. And it's a high-end scope. And what does that scope run?
00:29:10
Speaker
$1,600? No, $1,200. $1,200? Yeah, $1,200. twelve hundred bucks twelve hundred bucks Dude, so like, I mean, I don't like talking to other brands, but i mean, man, this thing is, every bit of a VX6. Yeah.
00:29:21
Speaker
VX6 glass, you're talking $2,500 scope, $2,000 scope, and you're getting it for $1,200. And it only weighs 22 ounces. Yeah. Which is phenomenal, right? Like, it's it's it's obviously not like, you know, you're super ultra, ultra light, but it it holds at zero, which I love about it.
00:29:36
Speaker
I can say that, like, I've learned, like, I don't put cheap scopes on any guns anymore. Like, my kid's first buck, he had a, think he had a Diamondback on it. and Oh, man. And he shot the buck in the leg, lost the buck.
00:29:47
Speaker
And to get to the range, the gun was off by, you know, it was like four inches low, four inches right. You know, if thing is wouldn't hold zero and I've never an issue with my mavens, mavens just hold zero no matter what.
00:30:00
Speaker
And I am that moron that's very abusive to his gun. And I throw my thing around and I saw my backpack and I took my backpack off my shoulder and hits the ground, you know? Yep. it just hold oh yeah i'm yeah i'm sloppy that way too i i make fun of other people but i'm a pretty pretty sloppy uh i don't take care of my gear like i should um and and and i probably have the same problem with you i know a guy so i also know a guy that works at maven and so he helps me out a lot but uh but no i i i'm ah pretty abusive but i try to take care of my stuff
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, but you almost want to be too, right? Like I throw, I'll throw a tripod to the back of a truck. ah You know, I'll throw things around because want to break it. I want to see it. So like we're we're field testing brand new, you know, prototypes. I'm throwing, I took it to Mexico. We broke them.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah. It helped me. Like I want, and what I'll do a lot of times, like, like Cody Rich is a caveman. Cody, I have a new trial. I shouldn't, I'm working something. I'm you a hundred percent. I like, I love Cody. I'm working for something new for next year, but Cody with this thing wouldn't close. Instead of just like looking at it, he just pushed it and snapped something on the second. I'm like, Oh, thank God you're here to be a dummy.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah. You know, and he he broke it. And I was like, no he's like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, it's perfect. i actually fixed it in the field. What he did, but it was like it over, I already knew there was an issue there, but now I knew there's a really an issue because the way this thing happened,
00:31:17
Speaker
this thing out of the way, it snapped it. And he just, and he did what most guys are going to do, which is just or caveman, break it. Push harder. It's not push harder. Yeah. That's always the answer. Push harder, break it. Right. Like I have this, uh, these shooting tripods and I was doing this like leg lockout device and you know, you would snap down and my farm, they couldn't figure out to fix it, how to put it up. So they just broke it, you know, father, my partner.
00:31:38
Speaker
And they're all, they're like, I'm so sorry. You know, I know. I and was like, no, it's perfect. And now the design is completely different. it doesn't drop down at all. It's on roller bearings. And the problem is solved. And the problem is Yeah. It just took it. You want people breaking your stuff. You want it, you know, you want to break it before it goes to market. Because if you don't break it, you know, it's going to get broken in the field by somebody. Someone's going to break it.
00:31:56
Speaker
Absolutely. One of the things that we realized coming into this whole thing is the number one most sensitive issue on all binoculars is the eye cups. I mean, everybody, that's the piece that yeah that's that's out there. It's the piece dangling out. And so we made our eye cups removable um from the get go.
00:32:10
Speaker
And so, so they're usable user swappable. um We can repair some of them in house, but we mostly, if someone comes up to say Hey, an eye cup won't come up, won't go down. Great, send you new pair.
00:32:21
Speaker
And we've actually gone through two three generations of improved designs just in line, um all threaded, all completely compatible.
00:32:32
Speaker
From the user perspective, no real difference, a a little a little different resistance, so they like them a little more. But overall, we just made that a user user serviceable or user replaceable part because every single binocular, the eye cups are what's going to fail.
00:32:48
Speaker
Um, you can take care of it. You can rinse it. I mean, they're waterproof, like rinse them underwater, move them around, get some, get that grit and dirt out of there. But sooner or later, if you're a real user, you're going to have iCup failures.
00:32:59
Speaker
Great. They come right off. We'll get you some new ones. So, you know that's how I learned that my eyes are going out. I mean, i do love where reading glasses now, but I am a fully extended iCup guy and I wasn't five years ago.
00:33:10
Speaker
Ah, like I have to have them extended now for my eyes to work behind my but everybody. I don't know. That's funny. I don't know if my eyes are going out. It has to be because and I have to wear glasses too. Like I was reading, I had to go buy some reading glasses in Hawaii because.
00:33:22
Speaker
I wear progressives now. So I have to wear them to hunt because I can't see that ridgeline clearly. I can tell you there are animals on it, but I can't really see the difference between a bull and a cow anymore at distance.
00:33:35
Speaker
So yeah. And I have to have readers. So yeah, they're full progressives. So I went from the opposite. I used to be eye cups extended. Now I'm wearing glasses all the time, except when I'm on the computer. so gotcha yeah so old getting old sucks have you it talk about animals on a ridge i know you guys don't do any thermal stuff maybe someday yep um yeah never say never never say never dude i used a pair of i don't know if they were steiners whatever think steiners are they make thermals yeah binoculars in africa oh wow have you been africa yet
00:34:09
Speaker
No, I'm going in July. Oh, dude, it's so cool. I know. I've heard everybody, like, once you go, you can't stop. I was like, I don't want to to Africa. It's going to lame. And now I'm like, go back. I'm going back next year. should to get the hunt with us next year. see if I get you in there.
00:34:21
Speaker
um I think Leopold sponsored it. and We should get you guys on on have sponsored and go with us because Leopold didn't send anybody. It's like a big brand collaborative thing. But anyways, they had these thermal binoculars and you would look up at a hillside.
00:34:35
Speaker
It's like cheating. Oh yeah. It is cheating. Yes. It is cheating. It's why it's illegal in many States. Literally. I'm like, holy crap. There's that many animals. So then you like, you'd see the, you'd see their thermal image. It only works in the morning and the afternoon. Cause in the day gets too hot. Cause it's differentials. Yeah. You get the rocks got everything.
00:34:53
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, you'd see 20 animals where the average guy's pair of anodes might see one or two. Right. It was cool. And I was like, oh man, I wish this was for coos deer hunting. Like it would be phenomenal. And I don't know.
00:35:07
Speaker
i know in Mexico you can get away with a lot more stuff. I'm just curious. I know that you can't bring a thermal rifle scope down. I'm curious if I can bring down thermal binoculars. Cause man, like dude, I can't tell you. i almost feel like it's cheating though. i'm like, am I cheating if I if i do it?
00:35:20
Speaker
think they consider it cheating. But it's legal and I'm in Mexico, you know what I mean? I don't know. But dude, it was cool. It was cool. Drugs drugs are legal in Mexico too. So you can do you can do whatever you want down there.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah, drugs are legal down there. They do a ton of those, don't they? Yeah, but it was it was definitely an experience seeing seeing those things, and I was like, holy crap, this is like unreal. You think about elk hunting, it wouldn't even be fair.
00:35:43
Speaker
like You'd be able to look in, because you look in a dark timber, and you can see through the dark timber, see the body patterns, and that's where you like you'd be able to look at poly binos and be like, there's elk in there. I don't have a pair these binos, by the way. Nobody report me to fishing game. I don't own a pair of these binos.
00:35:57
Speaker
I'm just saying. like It was Africa. It was it yeah Africa. Oh, yeah, Africa. You can shoot. It's like, how much do you have to spend? Yeah, totally. like we're sitting there by this We're sitting there by this river and there's some ah the guy's like, there's some otters. I've never seen otters. It's the owner.
00:36:09
Speaker
Shoot him. you Oh, Jesus. you know Oh, there's a porcupine. Shoot him. Everything you see there, you can shoot. There's nothing yeah nothing not on the table over there in Africa, that's for sure. they just did They see it and they're like, okay, see that one? $10,000. That one? $2,000. It's shockingly inexpensive, dude.
00:36:27
Speaker
it's like It's shockingly inexpensive how much it costs to come an animal over there. you know We got 50% off on all of our stuff. but um man, like you can go shoot a lot of stuff, you know, like 800 bucks, 700 bucks. You know what I mean? It's just like the real big ones, know, like kudos and stuff. Yeah. and And the big and the big legendary trophy piece. Trophy stuff. But I mean, other than that, you can go shoot a lot of like the deer size stuff is like less than a thousand bucks.
Conservation's Economic and Ecological Impact
00:36:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:36:50
Speaker
You can stack some up and I don't care what I'm shooting. Like, i think the blest bucks are like 600 bucks. I'm like, that thing's a bitch and looking animal looks like an antelope. Oh my gosh. They're insane. Yeah. And, and, and, and obviously, you know, we're, we're, we're jumping around ah but in a, we're in a blessed situation to be able to, to even look at that.
00:37:06
Speaker
But the economy that gets built over there around that kind of conservation hunting is really impressive because, And I didn't really realize any of that. I didn't i wasn't born in the hunting industry. um I grew up in a military family and my parents were competitive shooters.
00:37:21
Speaker
So I, in fact, they met on the pistol team in college. It's kind fun story of my life, but I i killed paper from a very early age and, um Did a lot of shooting and never considered hunting.
00:37:35
Speaker
And you and I were talking about this before we hit that before we hit play. um the The shooting industry is such a big industry. um So much bigger than hunting industry.
00:37:47
Speaker
but I didn't realize growing up with, and it really what the hunting industry meant, um, and what it is to the, you know, to the impact on conservation in the U S what the impact of conservation worldwide, the impact of economies worldwide.
00:38:03
Speaker
Um, and so that's something that I've grown to appreciate as I, i mean, I'm shit 56 now. And I started hunting when I was 30. So it's still been a long time, but, um,
00:38:15
Speaker
it's a It's interesting to just learn what's going on in that um as as we look at that industry around the world. um But again, to circle around, i had no even though I was born into the shooting industry, I had no idea how big, how hot, how growing that, especially with NRL, PRS, that's exciting, fun things to do um with a firearm. And there's a lot of that going on.
00:38:42
Speaker
And you're now getting into that into the world too. Oh, yeah. I'm diving headfirst into the NRL, the PRS space, having fun with it. Right.
Ballistic Turrets: Precision vs. Simplicity
00:38:50
Speaker
Yeah. Rumping some people the wrong way and having a good time.
00:38:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um That's going to happen. are you What's your take on like a ballistic turrets? Because you guys don't make – people make them for your scopes. What's your take that? Like a CDS-style Leopold. i mean that's what they kind of forge that.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah. What'd you guys take on that? I know this you guy's doing it. Like Kenton Industries makes them for you, right? Kenton doesn't make it for us. We, we work with Wyoming Arms, which is ah a local AR manufacturer and they do a lot of ballistic turrets up there, up out based out of Cody.
00:39:20
Speaker
um And, and Kenton, we've got some things we've had in been in conversation with Kenton for a little while. oh Do they not not make, do Kenton not make one at all? Not yet. Nope. And just it's just a matter of us providing blanks to them and then they could they could per produce them.
00:39:35
Speaker
um My take on it is, um personally, I think it's a mistake. um And here's why. um There are so many variabilities in the ballistics of your gun that distance is only one.
00:39:51
Speaker
And ah there with technology today in the apps that you can have on your phone, um you can take into account the other really critical ah variables, which are ah elevation, temperature.
00:40:06
Speaker
um Obviously, environmental conditions are ah another variable that's a little bit. But elevation and temperature itself are are huge variabilities in what happens to your your round.
00:40:18
Speaker
And so, yeah One, you can understand the basis of ballistics very quickly and print yourself a dope chart and be as accurate as your custom built turret very quickly.
00:40:29
Speaker
And so like you were talking about dialing up one and a half MOA, you can do that super easy. I would say stick with an MOA, stick with an MRAD turret. and then know your gun and know your gun and then utilize the technology you have to have a ballistic app um and take into account when you need to, the other variables of elevation and temperature and environmental conditions and be more accurate.
00:40:56
Speaker
Because if your goal is to be accurate enough, then then fine, make a turret or use holdover. um But if you want to be accurate, you've got to take those other conditions. And so you should stick with a straight out straight and MOA or MRAD turret and dial the chute with some knowledge.
00:41:14
Speaker
So accurate enough? Okay. Get a custom turret built. It's fun to say, oh, that's 350 yards, dial 350, chute. You're going to probably be within a pie plate.
00:41:27
Speaker
but you're not going to be able to stack rounds. So here's where i would disagree with you, but agree with you. I don't, I don't use a ballistic turret. I just do, I dial my own stuff. I use my dope to my phone, but now my two partners, Paul Brock, they just pulled their gun out. I built their gun for them.
00:41:45
Speaker
built the turret for them. They went to Mexico. They saw deer 340 yards. You would thought they were American sniper. I dodged 340, shot this deer. Done. But if I would have said like, here's an app, here's, they would have been like, what?
00:41:56
Speaker
and same thing with my kids. Same thing with my kids, right? So like we're shooting 308s. It's funny. um I treat my partners like my sons. They both shoot 308s. They all shoot the same load. hand load it for all of a 160-acre and TTSX.
00:42:08
Speaker
It's like a 450-yard four fifty yard rifle So in that range, the ballistic turret really set their guns at 5,000 elevation. It's kind of like right there in the middle. It's pretty much in that range. It's not going to matter, right? It's going to kill the animal. It's going to get it done.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yep. Good enough. Exactly. And that's where I, that's where I like it for that entry level guy. Who's like already barely sighted their gun in. Yeah. If you get set up, but there is some involved with having to get your velocities anything still to get that thing done. Right.
00:42:33
Speaker
But without you coaching them, without you loading for them, yeah they, they wouldn't have the capacity to do that. Yeah. They will. The problem is if I would have done that they would have been holding over and injuring animals all over the place. and I'd be paying for Cousier, Mexico.
00:42:45
Speaker
So ferris I just built them the turret. Yeah. Built them the turret, took them shooting and they're like, Oh, I'm a freak. I'm American sniper now. i They're doing it. So it does make it easy from like that sense for the kids. Right. It makes it makes it great for my kids and be like, Hey, it gets them dialing. I can say three 75, they dial three 75. Right. Yep.
00:43:03
Speaker
yeahp um It just makes it a little bit easier as they're learning it, right? and then But I do think that as an entry level, it's good. I do think you should graduate to another turret because once you get yourself like a Garmin GPS and you can start switching between ammo as well.
00:43:19
Speaker
You're not locked. You can start and you start looking at your, you know, you to names start getting into Kestrels and stuff, right? start realizing like, oh my gosh, barometric pressure. you might see a whole m MOA difference at a thousand yards between 6am or 7am and 1pm.
00:43:34
Speaker
hundred percent 100%. Totally, totally different. And that's 10 inches at a thousand yards. 10 inches, at the exactly. ten inches So that's where, like like I said, out to 400 or 500 yards, those turrets are great. It does the trick.
00:43:46
Speaker
but I can put it on your gun, get you velocity, and you're going to be go hunting. right Go hunting, do your thing. That's fair. And we might as well make it fun. We might as well make it. It's accurate enough.
00:43:56
Speaker
It's fun. It gives a sense of, of, of dialing satisfaction. Well, it gets a sense of dialing. Absolutely. And you get the confidence that you can make it work. And that's what you want to do with a kid. That's what you want to do with ah somebody who's new to dialing is give them that confidence.
00:44:12
Speaker
So yeah, I'd agree with you on that. But you want you do want to get eventually get out of it and get into the regular turret and learn how to do it ballistics and learn your apps, learn your stuff. I mean, even, dude, like i took cool I'm taking classes on Kestrel. I mean, Kestrel's a whole other level figuring those things out. and Oh, yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker
it's um Because you can't you have to realize, too, like if you're only using an app and you set it up for 70 degrees and you get out and you get into... You need to have your barometrics in there. You need to have all this stuff in there yeah with, you know, your elevation, you know, your, your air densities, all that stuff. Cause it's going to change.
00:44:43
Speaker
So you need to make sure whatever app you're using has reflects that, right? Like an apply ballistics is going to do that. It's going to give you everything you need wherever you are with the GPS coordinate and the weather call. Yep. And then if you can, and then later you integrate, like you said, your Kestrel.
00:44:56
Speaker
So you're starting to bring wind ah at like point specific barometric pressure and temperature. um Then it makes, it becomes a big deal, but you're right at under, you know, under 400, under 500 yards, that variability is still there, but it's manageable.
00:45:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I do to other things besides rifle We're going do whole rifle scout podcast.
Hunting with a 30-06: Challenges and Proximity
00:45:19
Speaker
I, you know, I went to the whole 30 out six thing last year. Yep. I feel like I have to try really hard shooting animal past 400 yards.
00:45:27
Speaker
What's your take on that? Oh, I'm with you hundred percent. I've been shooting a 30-06 since I started hunting. And I also really, I'm really challenged to take a shot beyond 450, 400, 500 yards. To find an animal at that distance. It's hard to find one that far.
00:45:43
Speaker
Absolutely. And I'm, I'm just not, I, I shoot the shit out of that thing and I'm not confident enough. Now I've just, I've been getting really into back country hunting. So I've been hiking that thing in there and I love my 30 out six. My brother's a gunsmith. He built it for me. I love that gun. I can super confident with it, but it's not light.
00:46:02
Speaker
And so, um, I just got a new weatherby carbon, uh, seven PRC. So, um, I'm a excited. rifle It's a wicked rifle. Is it folding chassis?
00:46:13
Speaker
No, it's not the folding chassis, but it does have a carbon stock. Um, and so it's, it's literally leaning on my corner right over there because I haven't even shot it yet. Um, but I'm excited to move on to that because I'm going to save myself about four pounds of hike in weight. Oh, geez. um Which is really valuable to me um because i want to I want to get into the backcountry further and further away.
00:46:35
Speaker
um I'm a little bit older. I'm getting a little more irritated by people. And so, um i yeah, just excited to go shoot that. So I'm breaking my 30-06 trend.
00:46:46
Speaker
ah I hope my brother's not listening to this, um but I'm breaking my 30-06 trend, for which is around. and And you know, i mean, it's the most likely when you're – pop it around the, uh, uh, the back country that it's rolling in around in somebody's pickup truck that you got a, a, a cartridge right there. So you don't have to worry about it.
00:47:05
Speaker
A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, 7% is the cool guy cartridge now though. You're definitely getting trendy. I'm hip. I'm a hipster. I'm going to start growing a mustache. You should get a mustache like me over there, dude. You can get you in there.
00:47:17
Speaker
Did you, um, you don't have any stock? You don't have any like like like donkeys or goats or anything or llamas? I don't. i don't. i've done No pack stock for me. um I have never hunted in the backcountry with animals.
00:47:34
Speaker
I've climbed in the backcountry with animal support, but I've never never hunted with animal support. And I would really like to. I don't plan enough i don't plan enough ahead So I'm sort of an impromptu guy. Like I'll just get a text from my buddy. Hey, you I'm going in tomorrow. You want to go? And I'm like, hell yeah, I'm ready.
00:47:54
Speaker
i can grab my stuff and just go. So I took Livesey's llamas in and ah three out of the four were great. One of them, he's probably not making on any more trips. He kept laying down on us. It was kind of a nightmare.
00:48:05
Speaker
um But I hear they keep the grizzlies away. they keep it's But man, like it was so cool. We don't have v llamas. Like I was like, all except for that one llama who was just like, you he was like 12%. He wasn't into it. He was like, I'm out of this. It was like 80 degrees.
00:48:19
Speaker
He's like, yeah, I'm not into this. Mark's probably going to sell him, honestly, after that trip. He was like, yeah, he yeah not he's obviously just lame, right? Yeah, he's not cutting it. So llamas are so expensive now, but dude, I had this guy on from this. He's ah a donkey racer and he does like ultra marathons with donkeys. This is a real thing.
00:48:39
Speaker
This is a real thing, Mike. It's a real thing. And dude, so know if you've ever been down south by us, like California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, we're covered in donkeys.
00:48:50
Speaker
They're invasive. Yeah. And so this is this is this is how great our government is, right? Our government will capture these donkeys. They will pay Joe's horse service $1,000 to break the donkey, saddle trade the donkey, and trailer trade the donkey.
00:49:05
Speaker
Really? Then Mike can go buy that donkey for $150 or for $250. or two for two fifty Okay. So you can get yourself two donkeys for $250 and those things, they swear 120 pounds each they can carry in, if not more.
00:49:20
Speaker
And you've got two donkeys with you and they're best to get in pairs. so Okay. so they So they have a buddy. It's best to get them in pairs. They're not so annoying. They're not so loud. Okay. So you could be like walking yourself to work with your donkey every day, tan them up in front of Maven. Right. Have your, training these things. Yeah.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah. Making the, making your, you know, your grunt, whoever the newest kid is, take them on walks to the store, getting them ready for season. Okay. And then you'd be bringing in, you could bring in every, ran you could bring in three rifles. Yeah.
00:49:49
Speaker
Well, there you go. Now you need to send me a link to this so I can, because I, I'm a city dweller, so I don't really have some good property, but my partner, Cade, he has eight acres just primed. Let's put donkeys on his property. Let's get some donkeys out there. I'll pay for them.
00:50:03
Speaker
Okay. I'll send you two donkeys. Donkey co-op. Donkey co-op. Donkey co-op at Cade's house. His wife will love us. She's always wanted, she just got chickens. So they just lost less than a year ago. She'll love having some donkeys out there.
00:50:17
Speaker
i'm um And the cool thing is like, if you don't like them, they're so cheap. you can just leave them out there. You can just shoot them and eat em you know what mean? They're so cheap. It's like, it's like a llama is like sick. Like we took out a living says, llama is like, Hey, that llama, there's 18 grand. So, you know, and I'm like, Oh God, please don't die.
00:50:32
Speaker
Don't hurt the Dalma. Don't hurt this. The donkey, 150 bucks, dude. I mean, like if it if it falls down a cliff, you're like, oh, whatever. If it buries it, you're like, at least buried the donkey, not me. You know? Right.
00:50:43
Speaker
So it's like. All right. Yeah, you can count me in. I'm in for 250 worth of donkeys. For sure. I'm seriously going text after this and see if you can get you guys some stock. All right. I'm going to get Kate on that. He just walked by my office. so I'll have to grab him. we'll get you guys some donkeys up there because I want someone to do it. Cause this guy's, and so no joke, my office, the podcast.
00:51:02
Speaker
So this guy ended up getting his first donkey off of Craigslist from like some tweaker. yeah And then his second donkey he got from like his neighbor. And like, he goes and runs these marathons where you run and they you have to, the donkey has to wear like a ah oil, a, a,
00:51:17
Speaker
a gold pan, like a pickaxe. Oh, right. You have to, it's like, it's like, yeah, traditional. So, but dude, they're clicking off like six minute miles, the first five miles. Wow. It's a 30 mile ultra marathon. And he's like, he says my first race, I'm just, I'm just kicking everyone's ass. I'm just passing everybody. I'm dominating.
00:51:33
Speaker
He goes, I ended up finishing like second to last. the time we got to, realized what donkeys is you have, it's not the beginning. They have to do, you have to do the whole race. Yeah. Right. So you you to pay some out of the gate, but they, yeah, they, they're, yeah. So there's this trick soap. So these guys are doing like full on ultra. It's a real thing. Ultra donkey racing marathons.
00:51:53
Speaker
And, uh, it's cool. So I'm going to have to get you, I'll get you in touch with them because it's, I want someone that you guys have the property there to do it. And yeah, having the stock, especially like get into your fifties. I mean, I'm only 40 and my knees are swollen up like crazy lately. It's been really getting me like, I don't know what I can do for my knees get some peptides or something, but, uh,
00:52:11
Speaker
Having the stock to carry in that weight. Yeah. ah carry out the weight even better. Carry out. That's where it's really hits. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially someone like you just kills animals. every time he goes back there, you know, you can bring an elk out once a week.
00:52:23
Speaker
Oh man. and So, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We get them, we get them to get some donkeys. He starts walking him to work every day. You guys got your Maven. We can, you can brand them with Maven, you know, the Maven logo on their ass. Right. and like Yeah. The big M flying M. You could paint them orange. Yeah.
00:52:42
Speaker
You'll be crushing it, man. Oh, man. All right. You're in, huh? So what, a we always end with hunting story. You got anything new coming out you want talk about before we start doing a hunting story? Well, so we are, um I was telling you just before we kicked off, um we are getting more focused around the shooting end of things. We just launched our RS6, which is a true 1 to 10, 1 to by mil tube with a locking turret so it's a turreted well
00:53:13
Speaker
LPVO, which is pretty sweet or that's super sweet. Retails for $1,800 and absolutely thing is a crusher.
00:53:23
Speaker
So I absolutely think it's worth checking out the RS6. um That's like a straight-bodied, straight-bodied, like, you know, your AR-15 military style, three-gun, one to 10, perfect coyote rifle.
00:53:37
Speaker
Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Great, great coyote, great three gun competition. Um, but also a great scouting gun, uh, uh, scope.
00:53:47
Speaker
So really worth checking out. So, um, really cool new optic for us. I mean, new, it's been out for for four or five months, but, um, but that's really new in the market. Season hasn't started yet. So it's really good.
00:53:58
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. And I'll be out shooting that thing tomorrow. So I'm looking forward to getting out, playing with it again. um God, I don't really have, I mean, my hunting my hunting excitement, I didn't have a super strong season last season.
00:54:12
Speaker
I spent a ah lot of days ah in the backcountry for me. um You know ah that we all get into this industry because we love hunting, we love being outside, and then we find ourselves sitting behind a desk a lot more than we want to.
00:54:27
Speaker
um But I did spend a lot of time hiking around the backcountry, first with a bow and then with my 30-06s. um Had some great days, got got eyes on a lot of big bulls um and did not put one down.
00:54:40
Speaker
And so it was a ah simultaneously a super satisfying season to get to spend time in the backcountry with my buddy, get time to spend the backcountry with myself.
00:54:51
Speaker
um which is I value more and more. I actually probably value that more than harvesting anymore. um And it was better on my knees. So we can say that for it.
00:55:02
Speaker
um But this year I put in for that same ah area, area 20, it doesn't mean much to most people, but 25, 27 tag, um which will put us right on the continental divide um here, which is a super gorgeous area of the wind river mountains here in central Wyoming.
00:55:20
Speaker
Um, so i'm looking forward to hopefully drawing that tag and spending more time in the mountains. I've got actually a camp stashed in there. Um, and, we'll spend time right at, at 11, 12,000 feet, which is great, great place to spend, spend time.
00:55:38
Speaker
Um, my daughter also moved back with me. So i'm looking forward. to I, since she was six, we hunted, antelope together and driving our, you know, bouncing a pickup truck around the prairie of Wyoming chasing antelope is super fun. And the only thing more fun is to do that with your kid.
00:55:56
Speaker
So, um, I mean, she's 24 now, so, but yeah I'm looking forward to just spending time in a pickup truck with her, um, chasing speed goats around, which is my, maybe actually my favorite way to hunt the favorite antelope to hunt our favorite animal to hunt.
00:56:12
Speaker
Um, So, yeah, I mean, ah kind of a sad story to to end your podcast with. but Well, no, you guys do. Talk about, too, you know, talk about conservation. You guys are a huge part of the One Shot up there, too, right?
00:56:25
Speaker
We are.
One Shot Antelope Event: Ethical Hunting
00:56:26
Speaker
it's ah What's One Shot? So the One Shot is ah is a really interesting 80-year-old event here in Lander. um It was founded as a competition between ah Wyoming and Colorado um for antelope hunting.
00:56:39
Speaker
um And basically the competition is this. It's it's evolved, obviously, in 80 years. But um we have nine teams of three that come up here and ah and buy tags. there's so They're dedicated tags for the event, but they still pay for them.
00:56:55
Speaker
mean, by teams, you mean like the governor of Wyoming. Yes, that the governor of Wyoming is a big deal leaves one of the teams. oh And so he shoots with a local hunter and then he picks a hunter.
00:57:05
Speaker
um And basically you divide up these teams and you you head out. And rule number one, you have to harvest ethically harvest an antelope with one shot.
00:57:16
Speaker
If it takes you more than one shot to ethically harvest, that's a no, that's that's a fail. um Rule number two is if your team... is one of the teams that harvests three antelope, then it's done for time.
00:57:30
Speaker
And so, and rarely do two teams harvest three antelope because there's a lot of pressure in trying to shoot an antelope with one shot quickly. um But yeah, so we, it's a big economic boom for our county, for our town.
00:57:45
Speaker
It's a great opportunity to spend time with people in the industry um and the governor specifically of Wyoming gets a chance to compete. He's the only guy that gets to compete more than once. So everybody else just gets one chance.
00:57:57
Speaker
Although we invite all of our past shooters to come back and, and spend time and they, you know, get a chance to go out and antelope hunt. I know when I was in your office, you had like, Oh, that's a governor's antelope skull right there. Yeah. So, so Maven, we actually, i don't know if we you know this, but we put our team together in 2019.
00:58:13
Speaker
And so we got a chance to compete and we are the current record holders for time. I didn't know this. i want to hear it. Yeah. We shot three antelope in, 16 minutes. Um, so my partner, Brendan shot his in under a minute.
00:58:27
Speaker
He was set up thanks to some good optics. He was able to see this antelope in the dark. So he was able to set up and wait for, for shooting light and shoot it immediately. Uh, my partner Cade was able to get on an antelope that had already been the, his opponent had tried to shoot one had missed.
00:58:43
Speaker
So he had to immediately jump into action and was able to harvest his in
Shooting Competition: Trials and Strategies
00:58:47
Speaker
five minutes. Um, And I was the slow poke. It took me 10 whole minutes, but I did have to, I was also a second shooter. So my ah competitor, my opponent shot his.
00:58:58
Speaker
So then the clock started shooting for me and I was able to chase myself into position, get a group, get on another group and shoot one in 10 minutes. Really? Yeah.
00:59:08
Speaker
um And I didn't have any idea my buddies had done such a great job. So you're out with your team. No, you're out. You spend time with the competitor. So you're out there with a competition team and you, have and we're Wyoming, so there's no cell service.
00:59:23
Speaker
So nobody knows what's going on until the afternoon when you all come back. you to coin, like who gets go first then? Yep. They draw your name out of a hat. So, and I don't know whether it's better to go first or second. um I think it's better to probably go to go first. If you have a good guide, I've been guiding for the last three years. And so that's a way harder, high pressure event.
00:59:45
Speaker
You got to get someone on an antelope at first light. That's, that's hard to do. Um, it's, and so it's a little less competitive for size. I mean, that monster that you got last year, we're not going, we're going after, you know, respectable bucks.
00:59:58
Speaker
They have to be a buck. It has to be a two point. Yeah. it It has to be a two point. Um, yeah, exactly. I've never put it that way, but I might start doing that. Yeah. it just ah Good two point. logit They're all good two points.
01:00:11
Speaker
Yep. Yep. As long as it's got black cheap patches. I mean, there's been ones that have shot that are good two inches, but yeah. But um yeah, it's a
Water for Wildlife Fundraiser
01:00:20
Speaker
fun event. It's a good social event.
01:00:22
Speaker
um It raises money for a ah conservation organization called Water for Wildlife, which puts ah the water is the number one rarest commodity in this region. So it helps put water tanks and water ah drinking areas out all around the region. So from in Wyoming, ah Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, there've been water projects all throughout.
01:00:44
Speaker
And so raises a lot of money for that, which is great. An average water project costs $5,000, $10,000. five ten thousand dollars so they're expensive to put in. That's awesome.
Maven's Brand and Customer Connection
01:00:53
Speaker
Well, you guys, I know we didn't talk a bunch about their spotting scopes or binoculars, but that's really what they're known for. And then the right scopes has taken off.
01:00:59
Speaker
I hope everyone listening this gets to realize you're talking to the owner of Maven. And that when I, when I call, when you call Maven, getting the owners and they are hunters. They are dudes who are just doing it right. Keeping their business in land of Wyoming.
01:01:12
Speaker
And just, I'm just so happy to be working with Maven, having them sell my stuff and to become friends with Mike and these guys up there. um Mike, where can find you guys?
Connect with Maven and Tricer
01:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, you can find us at mavenbuilt.com or of obviously on all the social medias with Maven Built. So come check us out.
01:01:28
Speaker
You cannot go wrong with Maven. I'm a big fan. mike you Mike, thank you so much for having me on. My pleasure. Coming on my podcast, whatever I did. Oh, yeah. I appreciate it. Thanks, Drew. Thank you. All right. Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast.
01:01:42
Speaker
Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at Tricer USA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com.
01:01:55
Speaker
Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.