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Mastering Your Elk Season: Joe Giglia from the ElkBros
331 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of the podcast, Drew Miles welcomes Joe Giglia from Elk Bros to discuss the ins and outs of elk hunting. They kick off the conversation with a light-hearted take on the first rule of hunting: being prepared and enthusiastic. Drew shares a humorous account of his chaotic morning, emphasizing the importance of punctuality, especially when it comes to hunting trips. As they delve into the topic, Drew reflects on his own experiences hunting elk and his upcoming plans for the season with his son's elk tag. The duo explores the excitement and challenges that elk hunting brings, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts.
ELKBROS
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Transcript
Introduction and Prayer
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners.
00:00:17
Speaker
We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Meet Joe Giglia and Elk Hunting
00:00:22
Speaker
All right. This is going to be a fun one. We'll we'll get into why I'll be fun here in a minute. But I got Joe Giglia from Elk Bros here on the pod.
00:00:31
Speaker
Talk elk hunting today. Joe, like like rule number one in hunting. Yeah. What what is rule number one? Like your first day going hunting. So what's the rule number one? Like rule. I'll tell you.
00:00:44
Speaker
What do you think that is? Rule number one in hunting? Yeah. Like the first day, guys coming to get you. Yeah. Um, God, be ready, man. Get ready. Passion and be ready. Yep.
00:00:56
Speaker
Okay. So here's how my morning went. Uh, we had a bonfire till 11 o'clock last night. My wife this morning, five-year-old came in the room. She took my phone off of my charger next to the bed, which was set for 7 a.m.
00:01:08
Speaker
Give it to my five-year-old. So he go play video games on my phone. Well, 8.15, my wife, who's, I'm never late for anything in my life. Rule number one is don't be late. I'm never late for anything. I'm i'm in the gym 15 minutes. My wife is late for everything.
00:01:22
Speaker
It's 8.15. My wife's running through room. I said, what do you do? She's like, I'm going to late for Pilates. I'm like, oh, what time is it? She's like, 8.15. eight fifteen And now I'm like, oh my gosh. So Joe's been calling my five-year-old, my five-year-old just sending him to voicemail. you know He's over there just watching YouTube out there, sending him to voicemail. And here I am, we're starting this thing. i did everything wrong with the elk hunting coach you're supposed to to do. Like rule number one, lesson number one, always be on time, pay for the gas.
00:01:53
Speaker
You know, that's what's so funny is, is, um, so on your thing, on your invite, you know, it has, if you're going to be late, you know, please let us know, you know, and I was like, oh man, am I going to give him stuff, man? So I, I went went and texted, uh, Ms. Rose and, uh, Ms. Rose is like, he is never late. I hope everything's okay. So I, I texted her back and I said, I just want you to know I'm officially the first sleep in.
00:02:17
Speaker
All right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude. And and he's she's calling my producer. Chad's calling. yeah Everyone's calling and texting. My son's just sending them to voicemail. Just like what five year old is out there. Like I'm playing video games. Why don't you phone keys blowing up, dad?
00:02:32
Speaker
So that's who you need as your HR person, man, is your five year old. They can take care of everything for you. That's my idea to screw you. Screw you. Delete, delete, delete, delete. So, uh, but yeah, Hey, I can tell you i feel very rested.
00:02:46
Speaker
I feel very rested. I got a good, I got a good nine hour. Apparently I needed a good nine hours straight, you know, or, but, uh, yeah, man, I'm yeah. It's 7am is late for me. Typically I wake up at six every day. Yeah. Um, and then go the gym at seven 15.
00:03:00
Speaker
and i was like, going sleep till seven o' tomorrow because we were out super late. We had this big giant bonfire. had pick my, my kid was in South Dakota. I was not invited, man. think My kid was in South Dakota running the tack for me. and He flew in, he got home at like 10 o'clock at the airport. So I had to, stayed down the beach and then jumped over to pick him up at like 10 o'clock and then got home and I was like, Oh, can sleep till seven, which is awesome. And then I ended sleeping until eight 15 and here we are at eight 45 about to do a pod dude.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So, uh, Joe, I'm excited, man. These elk hunting podcasts always do so well. Cause man, everyone wants to kill an elk.
00:03:39
Speaker
Um, I've killed a handful of them. I've never killed one with a bow. i've only had one season out of my bow with four them. And this year I'm turning my tag back. um If you're listening to that last podcast, i think you know why. My kid has that statewide elk tag in Utah this year.
00:03:53
Speaker
ah wow. I have essentially an over-the-counter tag in in Colorado, even though it's not over-the-counter anymore. I have my second choice. think I'm going turn it back because my kid's tag goes from the 13th to the twenty third um rut hunt with a rifle. So I'm going to be out there in the rut with a rifle, which is kind of a cheat code.
00:04:11
Speaker
um But man, I still haven't gone with my bow. And I think that like the pinnacle of hunting for everyone, especially out East is, getting an elk with your bow.
00:04:22
Speaker
I mean, it's just, everyone wants, it's something everyone wants to do. Everyone wants to learn to do. uh, That exotic thing part of, I mean, when you're from back East, I can remember because I'm originally from back East. I'm from the Carolinas. So I was raised in Podunk, North Carolina, um, raised hunting squirrels and coon and bullfrogs and fishing. And, and you would read those articles, man. You'd read those articles and outdoor,
00:04:47
Speaker
um, outdoor magazine and, and field and stream. And it was like, you know, these were people that you just could not, you know, they were these people that were up here and it was like something that you would never be able to do. And it was like this exotic thing, this elk hunting and, yeah you know, yeah um, you know, you, you're reading stuff by Wayne Carlton and by Larry D Jones and,
00:05:12
Speaker
you know, bowhunter with Dwight's shoe. And, um, yeah it was just something that ah was almost like dreamlike, you know, for a lot of people now, the world's gotten a lot smaller, right.
00:05:23
Speaker
Um, just from all this stuff. I mean, look what you and I are doing right now. We're doing remote podcasts, right. And, It impossible just a few years ago to do something like this, but the world's gotten smaller. People are looking beyond a lot of borders and and things are becoming possible because of the information they're getting. Because, you know, before when you're reading a magazine, if you wanted to come out West, the logistics part of it, you know.
00:05:47
Speaker
Who do you call? You know, what do you need? Where are you going to go? And, you know, what is that going to cost you? So all of that has changed so much. And you're right. It's on the list. I mean, um it's just such and it's a it's an overused word.
00:06:01
Speaker
But I have not found another word to replace the fact that they're the most majestic critters I've ever hunted. Right. You never heard of coos deer. I got a hundred coos, huh?
00:06:13
Speaker
You know, goes dear man when you're from the Carolinas,
Joe's Journey to Elk Bros
00:06:18
Speaker
you know, the, the size of the white tails that we have. Every white tail guy says the same thing. It just reminds me of that. It just doesn't, you know. Doesn't click.
00:06:28
Speaker
Yeah. I'm going, I'm actually going to North Carolina. I've never, I in San Diego. I've never killed a white tail, which everyone's just like shocking. Right. And I have all these, like all my new guys I'm hiring on are all white tail guys in the East coast. And so I'm actually flying back.
00:06:41
Speaker
to hunt whitetails in December with Jason Redd from Timber Ninja and Shed Crazy. going go hunt whitetails in North Carolina. So I'm going to first whitetail and see what this is all about back there.
00:06:54
Speaker
Well, and it's really, it's kind of that glassing game, right? I mean, you're looking for those those ghosts out there and and then being able to put that stock on them. That part of it is is pretty awesome, right?
00:07:06
Speaker
But for me, it's the whole... It's the whole communication calling um that intimate. I mean, you talk about intimate, man. Elk and you know, when you're bow hunting elk, that intimate nature of that, and of knowing that critter, being in that critter's environment, being in their home, you know, trying to...
00:07:30
Speaker
beat them, making them think that you're one of them. And, and, and that challenge of doing that or bringing them up to your toes to get that shot with the bow is just, there is something about that.
00:07:41
Speaker
I mean, I get a lot of that. I love to turkey hunt because I love that communication aspect, you know, things that you can call in. Shoot. I went to hunt with my buddy down in Texas to hunt hogs. And I was the first dude that showed up on his place that was trying to call hogs, right. Trying to use some of the sounds to bring them in. It's just, I love that calling aspect.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah, man, there is something, and the same thing with turkeys, I guess. Turkeys don't really get me off, but ah it's but with elk, man, one of those things sounds off, and they're, yeah you know, even if they're a mile away, you're like, oh, there they are. yeah It's just like, something's just like, it just turns on, and then all of a sudden the excitement goes, and you're kind of running, and then you're getting in there, and then You know, there's cows around. you And you can smell elk, too. there is an Elk is an experience during the rut. It is an experience, man. You can smell them. you could it' just it's And there's these giant, you can hear them, right? hear them not only talking, but you can hear them moving, right? You can hear them coming through. Like, I talk about the first bull I ever shot. Like, I heard him five minutes before I shot him.
00:08:41
Speaker
like it just He just came through. and they're just... They're so big and they're just crashing through things. And, you know, when they're coming downhill, they're not coming down slow. They're coming down hard a lot of times, you know, and breaking branches and breaking stuff. And it's just, it is cool, man. You're getting excited here. I mean, I just woke up, but I'm getting excited over here.
00:08:59
Speaker
I just tell you, it in you know, I have a buddy that's ah one of my partners in elk bros and his name Gilbert Ornelas. And he was actually my client before we became, developed a real close friendship. And now we're actually partners in the business.
00:09:14
Speaker
And the first time that I had Gilbert, you
Elk Bros and Hunt Wars
00:09:16
Speaker
know, Gilbert is a South Texas hunter. And he comes to me, he's like, he's like, bro, man, I've killed hundreds of whitetail. I mean,
00:09:24
Speaker
you just get one of them critters in front of me and and it's over like that. And I was like, you know, dude, I, it, I know they're a big target, ah but it's a different experience. And the first bull that showed up on him, everything that he, i mean, this bull comes up and he's screaming.
00:09:43
Speaker
He's only, I think at that point, I'm trying to remember because originally the bull was like at 40 and then the boy ended up at like 18, 19 yards. And, um, and You could see the saliva. You could see the steam coming out. I mean, the whole time. Oh, man. And he said everything he knew about bow hunting went out the crack of his butt, man.
00:10:02
Speaker
100%. It was just such an experience. And it took um it took him, I think it was three years, three or four years of hunting elk. Now, he was not just hunting any elk. He was hunting at that particular elk that he wanted.
00:10:16
Speaker
And we had to have some conversations to try to get that to change a little bit. But... um I was like, dude, man, you got to get one under the belt. You do that and everything's going to change for you, right? You just get that first elk under the belt, learn that process, get used to that closing, and it's going to change for you. It's just going to alter everything. And it has. I mean, since that first one that he got with me, I think he was 16 straight after that, you know. Oh, geez.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. And just... um It's such a total different, it is it truly is an experience. It is an experience. Everything that you talk about, the the environment that you've got to work within, the smells, the sights, the sounds, the just the the size of them. And, you know, as a hunter that, you know, I've been hunting since I was a kid. I've been shooting the bow since I was six, right?
00:11:10
Speaker
And, you know, with whitetails, for me, it was like, It was the you know, a whitetail was the smartest critter, but man, they got anything. It was just boom. They were just gone.
00:11:22
Speaker
You know, their behavior was, you know, what it was or boom, they were out of there. And elk, when you experience elk and all the different behaviors, you know, um they just have these personalities and they have different personalities. And then you get to experience how they communicate and how they work within their own herd and within their group. and To get to know that and then utilize that knowledge to your advantage to find their weaknesses from the things that they do.
00:11:53
Speaker
You know, I told you, I think I told you before that I was a a coach. I've been a teacher coach. I'm a retired in, you know, high school teacher coach. And as a coach, what I did was i knew what our strengths were.
00:12:09
Speaker
What I had to do was identify the weaknesses of our opponent and then play to those weaknesses. You coach football? um So I've done football, basketball, track and field. i've you i mean, you're in a small school.
00:12:22
Speaker
I'm in Little Cimarron, New Mexico, rural community. um I coached football in another community before I came here. But I think... I think K through 12, we probably had 600 kids in our high school. We had um anywhere from at one point there were 90 kids at our biggest point, 200.
00:12:44
Speaker
So you're talking very small community here and having to work with The kids that you have, you got to build them. You don't have them moving in and out of all the supplies. So you really have to do a job on coaching to strengths, finding failure points, overcoming failure points, and then finding your opponent's weaknesses and then wedging into those weaknesses to be able to get done what have to. So I kind of bring that to what I do.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, I had a feeling because I really didn't know nothing about elk bros. um And I just had to wake up and call this guy and be like, I'm so sorry. And he's like, and when you were like, Drew, drink your coffee, take a minute, regroup. I know the mindset, let's not do this yet. And i was like, oh, this guy has to be a coach.
00:13:31
Speaker
This guy has to be like, you did everything right. It's like, like i just I felt like I just ran to the top of the hill and I started drawing bow back and you like grab my shoulder and you're like, hey, take 30 seconds to draw your bow back.
00:13:44
Speaker
Get your breath, get your, get your heart rate. And I was like, Oh, this guy must be a, I knew like just from that, like that brief phone call, was like, this guy has to be a coach of some sort. Uh, and I just knew it was gonna be a fun pod.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's that. So a bow hunter, um, a coach, um, a guide, And I have been able to put all of that together into Elk Bros.
00:14:11
Speaker
um As a guide, shoot, man, guiding for about 30 years, I've never been point-and-shoot guide. That's just not the type of person I am.
00:14:22
Speaker
When I have somebody with me, i want them to feel the same passion that I have. I want them to know what's going on. I was, I'm always communicating, showing them sign, talking about what's happening, talking about the animal, getting them and pulling them into the experience. And,
00:14:41
Speaker
you know, that has been how I've done things. So, um, elk bros, so that everybody knows out there elk bros, basically when I retired from teaching and coaching, I had clients that I was guiding and I had clients that told me, they were like, Joe, man, he said, you you're not a guide. You're, you're a coach. You teach us what you're doing.
00:15:05
Speaker
You've got to do something with this. And, You know, I'm like, you know, at that time, what are you going to Write a book, you know, do magazines. And I'm ADD, dude, man. That stuff of sitting at a typewriter, such a struggle for me, right?
00:15:18
Speaker
But for my students in school, I taught graphic design, web design, video production, broadcasting. So I had all of that skill set.
00:15:29
Speaker
And, you know, I talked to Corey one day um and and I told him, I was like, but I just want to thank you because you were actually my inspiration because I saw I was online and I saw that there was a online elk hunting course by Corey Jacobson.
00:15:46
Speaker
And I was like, man, at that point in time, i was already doing online content for all of my students. When a kid came to my class, they went to a portal, had their lessons, and was teaching them through courses that I developed online. I was like...
00:16:02
Speaker
man, I could do this. This is my format, you know, with my skill set. So what I did was I'm like, I'm going to create, I called the dudes up. I said, I'm going to do this, man. I'm going to do something.
00:16:13
Speaker
And I'm going to create an online course in my coaching style, which is totally different. I am, even though I've been a high school teacher for 30 years, I hate the way they teach in high school.
00:16:25
Speaker
If you take a look at the way subjects are taught and then you take a look at how coaches coach, who different models, man. Well, you're coaching. So we homeschool, but, and I know you're going with this.
00:16:37
Speaker
Coaches coach to the player's skill set, right? And teachers teach to this like generic everyone. And like you have to, and everyone is not generic. Everyone is unique and individual.
00:16:50
Speaker
and You have to be able to focus on what their strengths and weaknesses are. That's the things I love about homeschooling our kids. We can be like, Oh, what's been an extra time doing this? What's the less time doing that? And and which figure out who you are.
00:17:01
Speaker
So you've got that. So if you think about it, high school is basically a pyramid where you're giving them all this knowledge, right? And you're hoping by the time they get to the top that they've retained some of that, even though when they're doing it, I kind of compare it to a video game, man.
00:17:17
Speaker
You're on level one on this video game and you're trying to figure out how to get to level two. So you're just doing all of this stuff and your your person dies and then you get a new one. So you try it differently and then it dies and you try something different.
00:17:30
Speaker
Get to a level, the next level, that you have no idea what it looks like. And by the time you get there, it's probably hard to repeat it because you've tried so many different ways to get there here. You you really don't know how you got there.
00:17:44
Speaker
Well, you take a coach. For example, when I e watch a football team, why is it that a football team can score in the last two minutes of a football game after they spent hours not doing any scoring? It's because they practice how to finish.
00:18:01
Speaker
They know what it looks like, you know. So they actually, why is it a team, you know, a basketball team? They practice to be able to put that goal through, you know, that hoop. That ball through that goal with 2.5 seconds on the clock with an inbounds play.
00:18:15
Speaker
They practice that. Like with my track athletes. You know, my track athletes, I have pole vaulters that are clearing a bar. I'm teaching them how to clear a bar before they really have the skill set to clear the bar.
00:18:28
Speaker
They're learning what that feels like so that through all of the skills and drills they get there, once they get to that point, they know how to finish. So what I've done with my course is I actually take that thing and I turn it upside down.
Elk Hunting Techniques
00:18:43
Speaker
um I start with, just like I do of my athletes, that point that is most in their control, that last 30 seconds to a minute when that elk is in front of them. And I teach them how to close because, know,
00:18:56
Speaker
You know, as well as I do, but that there's going to be a lot of people that are going to get with an elk in front of them in so many different ways. Right. Whether they do it right, whether they do it wrong. Whether whether it steps out in front of you or it's just, they just kind of show up sometimes. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I've learned them a lot. I just have all with my bow. Yeah. It's, ah yeah. It's sometimes stuff just happens and it never happens.
00:19:21
Speaker
Animals, especially during the rut. Right. It, it, they don't do what you want them to do. They're doing what they're going to do of the time. Sometimes you're just looking a genius, but it's because most of the time you got lucky. Well, yeah. And there's always, know, there's...
00:19:36
Speaker
You know, when you have that skill set, you can kind of play to that and have an idea what they're going to do. But most people are like that, that dog chasing the car, man, they're running after. And once they get it there, they don't know what to do with it.
00:19:48
Speaker
So what I do is I actually start with that point and teach them how to finish. And then, I come back to the setup. Now, when I'm talking about the setup and everything I'm talking about, it's making sense because they just had that animal in front of them and in trying to finish. So they understand what they're supposed to do.
00:20:10
Speaker
And then I go back to response. And so when I'm talking about when you get a response and what to do with that, they already know what kind of setup they're looking for because they just came from there. So I actually built backwards. I scaffold backwards so that People are at that level. And when they come back as they're learning, they know what it looks like and they know why and what the reasons are for the things that I'm telling them.
00:20:34
Speaker
Right. So that was how I built the course. And, you know, when we developed the course, um we actually created a podcast and the course. Yes, you're paying for the course, but we give we have a podcast called Blue Collar Elk Hunting, where It's basically us, our crew together, just like we're in Elk Camp.
00:20:54
Speaker
We treat everybody like it is Elk Camp. We enjoy each other's company. And then we're giving them free content on how to succeed in the Elk Woods, man. And Everything just kind of grew from that, Drew, man, because then people wanted to hunt with us. And then we had our first hunt with the Elk Bros giveaway where somebody won a chance to come and be in our camp with us.
00:21:15
Speaker
Right. And then we were like, man, people want this education. So we started Elk Bros Adventures where. People could actually purchase a hunt um and they they would, we had to get landowner tags we had to do it on public property at that point in time. So we were limited in what we could do. And I want you to know that this idea, how this came about in developing that whole process, I'm a coach for Hunt Wars. I don't know if you've ever heard of Hunt Wars. I've heard of Hunt Wars, yep,
00:21:48
Speaker
So when Hunt Wars first started in year one, I love the concept of Hunt Wars, man, because people put in and anybody can win this opportunity to compete on a level playing field, you know, um in an elk hunt. In that competition, it's and I always tell my athletes, I call them my athletes, always always tell them, look, don't worry about the competition part.
00:22:11
Speaker
Elk hunters are competitive by nature. Hunters are competitive by nature. It's you and that animal. The rest of the stuff takes care of itself. But I loved the aspects of the show. I loved, you know, the ethics of it. I loved how they were penalized for longer shots, how they were rewarded for more mature animals, right?
00:22:30
Speaker
And, but when I watched the first year of it, you know, of course you had people that were winning from Arkansas or Alabama that had never hunted elk in their life, right? And so now they're on this show and learning how to, or trying to learn how to call elk,
00:22:48
Speaker
while they're there on an elk hunt, right? um They're going out in the woods, having no clue what they're doing. It was like Groundhog Day, the same errors every day. So I got hold of Troy, who was the owner. I sent him an email and I said, what if these guys had some training prior to where they could call, you know, where they could be coached on the behaviors, where they could be coached on the animals.
00:23:13
Speaker
Dude, I got an email the next day and next thing I know, Elk Bros is working with Hunt Wars and I'm training athletes for season two. And in season two, here's the great thing, Drew.
00:23:26
Speaker
In season two, we had hunters from Arizona. We had hunters from Idaho. um We had hunters from Colorado. We had two guys that had zero bow hunting knowledge on elk.
00:23:39
Speaker
They had zero, they had never um hunted elk with a bow. They had never hunted big game with the bow. And now they're in this competition. And I taught all the athletes. Well, you know, guys from Arizona that have been hunting them, they bring a lot of their skillset.
00:23:56
Speaker
And generally it's like when I have basketball players that come in that think they're all that sometimes they're a little harder to coach. And then when you teach them some of the things, sometimes they fall back on you know their old stuff. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah. On the stuff that they know. Well, these guys that, When they came in, i have a video of the of the guy that was calling. It's Brenton Howie. And Brenton sounded like something dying, man. He had zero calling ability at the time.
00:24:25
Speaker
Well, those guys followed our playbook, went through our course, went through the training. And in season two, it was the team that was least skilled in the beginning that won the competition.
00:24:37
Speaker
And so, and it was, it was so awesome because that just plays for those people out there. And, you know, there's a lot of people telling you, if it's your first year elk hunting, you're not going to kill an elk.
00:24:47
Speaker
And I'm like, screw that, man. yeah If you're going in the woods thinking you're not going to kill an elk, you're absolutely not going to kill an elk. You step on the basketball court thinking you're not going to win the game.
00:25:00
Speaker
You're definitely not going to win that. I killed an elk. My first elk, it was the first elk I'd ever seen in the wild in, on public land. I killed it. It was all the elk I saw in seven. It was a seven day hunt day six. The last night I shot the only elk I saw a cow or bull.
00:25:15
Speaker
Right. It was, and I, have shot either. I shot a bull because I had an either sex tag. yeah I shot a bull and it was my first time ever elk hunting, man. It was the first elk I'd ever seen on public land and I shot it and killed it. It was, it happened.
00:25:26
Speaker
Absolutely. It happens. And you can look, Some people say that destiny ah is a matter of chance sometimes. I say destiny is a matter of choice.
00:25:39
Speaker
ah You can absolutely do things to put opportunities and and ah and those those things that can go positive for you in your favor.
00:25:51
Speaker
You can create those opportunities. You can put yourself in the best position. yeahp You can put yourself in the best places to have that. opportunity to finish. So, um, I did that. And then on the ranch, I i was, I've been, i had been guiding for about 10 years on the Vermejo park ranch.
00:26:11
Speaker
Um, Ted Turner's place from Northern New Mexico. And, uh, I, we started a guide training program where I actually was a mentor and teaching young guides coming in to teach them. So I was taking these things that I was doing with other people and I started doing it with Elk Bros Adventures. And since then, now el Bros Adventures, we have two two different properties, private properties now where we're able to, instead of just having five landowner tags and one hunt of five guys,
00:26:45
Speaker
Now we're able to do multiple hunts, multiple times, you know, on two different properties. And for the first time this year, we're doing our actual first coached rifle hunt.
00:26:56
Speaker
So I'm really excited about that, man. And then ah it's just, it's so cool where we've come in the last five years. Oh, it's awesome. not education i'm I'm excited. Like I've already gotten some ideas in my head. We're going to do elk giveaway next year. I'm like, oh i want to talk to you guys about that.
00:27:13
Speaker
um so I can tell you that I only remember three teachers from high school, and that's Coach Coda, Coach O'Malley, and Coach um Duke. They were all my football coaches.
00:27:25
Speaker
Yep. And i love, and I'm like, this is new now. and I'm just like, man, that's why I liked them. Cause like, well, and know also cause when you're on the football team, you get away with a little bit more stuff in class, but, uh, you get a little more leniency, at least out here in East County, of San Diego.
00:27:39
Speaker
But, uh, man, they are my favorite teachers. Like to this day, like I just saw his coach code his brother. he goes to church to me. and I'm like, Hey, tell Joe. Hi, you know, and Joe's 70. I think Joe's 77. I still coach or 74. He's still coaching or coach coaching and teaching it over at this high school. went to,
00:27:56
Speaker
21 years ago, you know? And, uh, but man, like I never put two and two together until you started talking. I'm like, man, those are my favorite teachers were the ones who are my, who are my football coaches, you know, the ones that we were with on the field.
00:28:08
Speaker
And it could be also a part of it is like, you have so much more respect for them, right? Cause they're out there grinding with you in the summer and they're, they're pushing you and they're, they're, you know, and, and there's also sense respect for them, for you as well. Cause you're, you're one out there throwing up during hell week, you know, how it gets lot harder back in the day, you know? And,
00:28:24
Speaker
Dude, they had expectation of you and they demanded things of you, right? Yeah, and those were my favorite. I never thought of it until i'm like, dude, and i I couldn't tell you another teacher's name, but I can tell you Duke O'Malley and Coder right now.
00:28:37
Speaker
And those are my three coaches. I cannot think of another teacher's name right now except for those three. and ah And it's 21 years later and I'm like, oh man, that makes so much sense, man. I'm in another town yesterday, exactly yesterday, coming back from Albuquerque to Cimarron. And I stopped in a town in between Las Vegas, New Mexico.
00:28:55
Speaker
I'm at a lot of burger ordering a burger. And one of my players from 30 years ago had seen me there and came in there. He's got, I mean, it had to be more than 30 years now, man, because he's got a son, 32.
00:29:09
Speaker
And I coached him when he was a freshman in high school. And he comes in and the first thing he says is the most honorable word that I feel that there is, is coach.
00:29:20
Speaker
yeah and he And that's, he comes in, he says, coach, and he gives me a hug and stuff. And, You know, i actually have some of my elk bros coaches right now. um One of my lead coaches, Chico Gallegos, I coached Chico when he was 16 years old and we became um close throughout the years. And here we are now.
00:29:41
Speaker
ah He's in his 50s and I'm 63. um and And we're still as close as ever. And now he's working with me, which is phenomenal. You know, it's just so cool.
00:29:53
Speaker
If anybody knows me, Chico knows So, yeah. With that, what we talked about doing is we're to talk about some of like the biggest mistakes hunters make coming into elk hunting. And I think that's a good thing. I think you can learn from mistakes.
00:30:10
Speaker
And even this morning, like I said, when you told me, Hey, calm down, get yourself ready to drink cup of coffee, then do the pod. Like that was like, Oh, I know that. You know what i mean? Like, it's just, like you said, man, some, an elk comes in and things just go out the window.
00:30:25
Speaker
I took a guy last year on elk hunt and he missed an elk at 23 yards twice because he didn't range it. Even though he watched it come in from 200 yards away and he guessed 40 and just he melted down. And this is one of the best archers I know. It was his first hunt.
00:30:40
Speaker
And I got out of bull and he just, everything went out the window. He said, he goes, I couldn't even hold my bow. I had him blind. He goes, I could, I was shaking. I, everything, this guy, I mean, I can go sit a hundred yards. of This guy, and he'll, i mean, he'll out shoot me all day long right and he couldn't hit an elk at 23 yards. ah it's And it's an elk is, I mean, 800 pound. It's a horse. It's essentially a horse with antlers. You know what i mean?
00:31:02
Speaker
Absolutely. yellow And they're bright yellow, you know, and he missed this thing. And, you know, Well, you just mentioned one of the huge mistakes right there. And and so what I'm about, and understand with Elk Rose Adventures, when somebody gets a hunt with us, it's the same thing, like I told you, with Hunt Wars. We're actually coaching them right now.
00:31:22
Speaker
um We're working with them right now on their calling. We're working with them on behaviors, working with them on how to finish, how to respond, all of the different things, aspects of the elk hunt before they even get to camp.
00:31:33
Speaker
So when they get to camp, they have a huge education before they get there. And then they're with one of our coaches in the field, putting them in the driver's seat, not putting them behind you. You know, we want that to empower them so that they're making decisions. Now we're going to help them just like a coach would on a sideline. Think about in a basketball game.
00:31:52
Speaker
I see a player that's dribbling wrong or not. I don't get to go out there and grab him on the court. He has to play the game, right? Now I can call timeout and go, all right, here's what I'm seeing. And think about this. Here's some possible options you can do.
00:32:04
Speaker
You know, and, and we work on those positives that we want them to do and we become their partners out there. So, but what you were talking about, we try to teach people how to recognize their failure points and not to have that happen on a hunt because you only get so many opportunities.
00:32:21
Speaker
And a huge failure point for me is guys depend so much on a range finder, right? And now if you have a bull coming in and you hear him and you know that that bull's coming in that way, that he's responding and you know that he's moving in and you have a chance to go ahead and hit landmarks, great.
Preparedness and Skills
00:32:42
Speaker
But how many times is it an oh crap moment when that bull steps out and that's your opportunity, like your buddy, that bull comes at 40 yards. Well, by the time you grab a range finder and you're risking doing all this, by the time you do it and you get a range, you've missed an opportunity and they walk out of your life. Right.
00:33:00
Speaker
So one of the things that i try to train guys is from 30 yards in, ah should be a dead bull. You should know that. distance, 30 yards in, right?
00:33:11
Speaker
um Yeah. You're not going to miss whether it's 20, 25 or 30. You put pin on there. It is a big animal people. They are very big. So it should be dead. Yeah. And I mean, yeah yes absolutely. And you should know what your bow does at that distance.
00:33:27
Speaker
That's why at that 40 yards, really you're like three inches off from that 30 yard, right? and With today's bows. So You know, but what happens is, is they fall back on that.
00:33:39
Speaker
I have to know. Right. And, and you're not shooting dimes. Now it's great to be precision in your shooting. Yes. But what I teach people is, well, you have to practice once that you're in your yard and you're a rock star.
00:33:53
Speaker
Now you've got to change that environment to make it, you know, real life situational as on a hunt. You want to be shooting from different positions. You want to be shooting through trees.
00:34:04
Speaker
You want to be shooting with obstacles between you and that and that animal. um You want to be out of breath, whether you're doing pushups and you have to get up, whether you sprint to that target and you come back.
00:34:16
Speaker
You want to be able to draw back. Do a cow caught? Yeah. And then pop that animal. You know, you want to work on all these things, but you don't want to be dependent on that range finder.
00:34:28
Speaker
You have to, and and i and I teach people just a simple skill, is after you've been a rock star, go and pull your four arrows, whatever you have. As you're walking away from the target, throw those arrows back and go to one of those arrows, pick it up, turn, look at the target, draw, shoot.
00:34:45
Speaker
No range finder. And start working so you can recognize what those distances are. You know, because you're going to go and look it. You're to okay, that's three. And you're going to pop it. And then you're going to be able to then gauge how you did that. And then you're go be able to look at the environment. Why did I think it was that distance?
00:35:03
Speaker
Because, y'all, it's different when you have just flat between you and that critter. And when you have trees in between. Things change visually on that. So you have to practice those things. So rangefinder has been a big mistake.
00:35:17
Speaker
I think one of the biggest mistakes, Drew, that I see is that guys, they they hear about how physically strenuous, you know, it's going to be on the hunt.
00:35:28
Speaker
It is. And the bet in the better shape you're in, you know, the better experience you're going to have out there. But that doesn't mean you have to be benching 300 pounds, man. It doesn't mean you have to be curling 60 pounds, right?
00:35:41
Speaker
It means that you have to be doing what you're going to be doing when you're in the mountains. You know, if I'm a swimmer going to swim the English Channel, I better be swimming. If I'm a hunter that's going to be hunting elk, I had better be hiking. I better be walking. I had better be, you know, have something on my back where I'm doing hills. And it doesn't have to be 50 pounds on your back, man.
00:36:01
Speaker
You know, what is your pack going to weigh when you're out there? Have five pounds over that. That's all you need, you know, but you need to be doing the things that are going to put you in the best position to kill, right?
00:36:13
Speaker
So I see all these people that are doing like CrossFit and they're showing all the gym stuff and they're doing squats and everything like that. But if I ask them to do a cow call, if I ask them, you know, they struggle with their calling. And generally what happens is they work their calling on the drive from North Carolina to Wyoming.
00:36:35
Speaker
You know, they're listening and they're practicing at that point time. And then by the time they get to Y.O., that one diaphragm that they have, they get out the field with it and they've already blown it out just using it, ah trying to learn on it as they get there, right?
00:36:49
Speaker
I think a big failure point is guys don't work their calling as much as they work their shooting, as much as they work their conditioning. And you need to be doing it early. You need to be listening to actual animals.
00:37:02
Speaker
You need to put your phone away from yourself, record yourself at a distance. You need to Make sure you know how to throw calls back behind you because elk will peg you.
00:37:15
Speaker
And if you're throwing calls in front of you, you're going to create a um ah you're goingnna create a hang-up situation. So these are things that I see are huge mistakes, right?
00:37:28
Speaker
um and And things that we try to get them to recognize as their failure points. I'll give you another huge mistake. And I've seen it on Hunt Wars and I had a guy that pulled it. Just last year. and And as soon as he did, he goes, man, Joe's going to kill me.
00:37:42
Speaker
Because I tell guys, when you're setting up, you never hide from that animal. You don't set up behind stuff. You set up in front of things, not behind. You do not want to restrict your shooting lanes.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yes, there's always oh crap moments where you've got to just get down and it is what it is. But you might have to move too. and And I see a lot of wagtail hunters.
00:38:05
Speaker
that once an elk gets within a visual or they can see them, they just lock up. They don't want to move. They don't want to do, you know, put them themselves, they're worried that the animal's going see them and they're going to lose the animal.
00:38:16
Speaker
And I try to tell them, look, if you have an animal that's going in a situation where you're not going to get a shot, you have to move. If you don't move, you have zero opportunity. Now let's do the math.
00:38:29
Speaker
Let's say you stay locked up and you watch the bull walk away. No shot. yeah you move to give yourself an opportunity. Now you're either going to have an opportunity or you're going to blow it up, but at least you have an opportunity. yeah Yep.
00:38:43
Speaker
Yep. So these are the kinds of things. And the other one is this, here's the huge one. I hope every listener listens to this. If you have an opportunity to draw because you see horns coming or something like that. And and with today's bows at 80% let off, you can draw and you can hold and hold and hold, right?
00:39:04
Speaker
If you have that opportunity, great. But there's so many times, again, when that bull shows up, has is visually where you can see them at 30 yards, and a person does not want to draw.
00:39:16
Speaker
Or they wait till their head gets behind a tree, right? They're just going to freeze there, and they're going to let the head go behind a tree, and then they're going to draw. And I'm telling you, no. Number one, you're always going to draw.
00:39:30
Speaker
Never try to draw in a bull when they're putting their head behind a tree when they're moving. Elk have a fatal flaw. When they see movement, they're going to stop and they're going to look.
00:39:42
Speaker
And almost every time they're going to do it broadside. Okay. So if you have an animal that he puts his head behind the tree and you're drawing back his, and he comes off on the other side and catches the end of your movement, he's going to stop and look at you.
00:39:59
Speaker
with a tree right in the kill zone. And I tell guys, let the bull come through. As soon as he's open, draw a cow call, lock him up, and then pop him. Now, if that animal is 10 yards from you, that movement might make him booger because that's his natural instinct to a predator. But he's just going to booger so much, and then he's going to stop and look back to see what boogered him.
00:40:22
Speaker
You know, especially if you cow call or you grunt, right? He's going to stop and look back because you're going to confuse that critter. And then you'll have that opportunity for a shot. We had a guy last year on Hunt Wars.
00:40:35
Speaker
Drew and the bull got his head behind there. Same thing. Bull locked up. Tree in the kill zone. He's already up to the point where he's going let down. Now he's screwed, right?
00:40:47
Speaker
So, yeah, it's just those those are habits and things that I see. You know, the lack of calling ability. I think is really number one. I would rather have somebody be a great caller than be in CrossFit shape.
00:41:03
Speaker
Absolutely. Right? see I think I'm the opposite. I think I'm, i like, I don't think I fit your mold. Because I think I'm a terrible caller, but I'm in good shape. So I need to work on my calling. I got to get on, like, do you have, like, courses for this?
00:41:17
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I can go run hills, right? I can do that stuff. I go, like i said, I'm in the gym five days a week. I mean, i don't know that I'm mountain shape right now, but I get there pretty good by, you know, by September, I'm pretty good shape. But yeah, my calling ability is terrible.
00:41:32
Speaker
and so And so really think about it, man. So think about there's, there's, here's the ways that you can come across an elk to have an opportunity. You can hike and hope and end up having it happen.
00:41:44
Speaker
Your odds of that are kind of like getting four of a kind in a poker game, right? a lot to Unless you're putting yourself, unless you have the knowledge set to know where animals are at that time of day in those areas, right? That's going to help you.
00:41:57
Speaker
yeah Okay. So the other way is basically you have to find them. That's like me trying, and I compare this all the time. That's like me trying to find my wife in Walmart.
00:42:08
Speaker
It can take me forever, man, because that's, I can be in one aisle and she can be on the other aisle. And it's like, she's not in the store. Cause I don't see her. You can go buy elk that are a hundred yards away and you think they're never there.
00:42:21
Speaker
So there's two ways, either for you to have to find elk or to have elk find you.
00:42:29
Speaker
And that same elk that was now 200 yards away, my wife on the other side of the aisle, if I yell Loretta, she's coming. She might be pissed, but she's coming. Right.
00:42:40
Speaker
I don't have to spend 45 minutes looking for her in the store. I don't have to spend days in the mountains looking for that animal. So your ability to utilize their language to make them, you know, think that you're an elk doing elk things so that they come to you is a huge advantage, man.
00:42:57
Speaker
it's ah It's, I would say it's the number one reason that I've had the success that I've had over the years. Is calling. Is calling. Yep. And look, what does that have to be?
00:43:08
Speaker
You know, I tell people, look, and I'm going to do this on your show, Drew. I'm going to give the secret call. This is, you want the call to kill elk? Here it is.
00:43:24
Speaker
There it is. Go kill elk. All right. I am as cow oriented as it comes. I've killed more elk because of cow talk than anything.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yes, I've killed bulls using bull um sounds. But the cow sounds, I just believe in being a lover over a fighter. I think you're going to attract a lot more critters with sugar than you are with vinegar, right?
00:43:50
Speaker
So um I've always been cow oriented. You learn to do that cow talk. Yes, and I've learned to mimic bulls in the right situations. I've learned to, over these years, I've learned the languages that they do.
00:44:01
Speaker
I've learned how to put on scenarios that make elk think that elk are doing elk things and come to that, you know. how many times have you been on a fence on private property and there's a rut fest going on on the other side? Oh, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
00:44:14
Speaker
You're like, oh, I wish I could be over there. Well, I want those elk that are there, at least some of them, to wish that they were where I'm at. So I can create a situation. I can paint a picture of a bunch of elk in my own rut fest and make them come to me, man.
00:44:34
Speaker
You know, um have them leave that property. So these are some of the things that, that we teach guys. So it's fun. Cause like, it, it's weird that I've never killed a bull with my bow. I really haven't done it. Right. I put the time other do it i think i I think I have the skillset to do it. I think I'm a good hunter to go kill both my bow. And if I kid to stop drawing tags, I'd probably do it.
00:44:53
Speaker
But, um, yeah, ah Would you say, and it's yeah I get to have friends, I'm friends with like Cody Rich and Corey Jacobson and you know you and I'm talking to all these, some of the best climbers in the world coming to talk, Brian Barney, everyone all different skills. Ryan Lampers, all these different skill sets, right? you're kind of learning from them.
00:45:11
Speaker
Would you say that you're more of a, like maybe you're using the bugle tube to find the elk? And then putting it away and then using the cow call. Cause like bre Brad hunt is a phenomenal elk caller.
00:45:22
Speaker
And he's like, dude, like I'm just, he goes cow calf, like a lot of calf calls, lot cow calf calls. And he goes, that's what my, that's my trick is like, he goes, I'm not calling him. He goes, I'm not trying to fight him most time. I'm just trying to get him in there with love. Like you said.
00:45:34
Speaker
So are you more of a bugle tube to find them and then cow calf to kill them? Like what what's your, so actually, um, actually I'm, I'm, I'm a cast caller. Right. So,
00:45:47
Speaker
um I'm always starting anything I do with Cow Talk. Everything I do is... Oh, really? Yeah, even early season. So early season, you know people are like, well, why are you using Cow Talk? Well, because bulls mew. And really what I do is I do a single mew.
00:46:02
Speaker
um and early season, when bulls are talking to each other with mews, and if you've never been in a group of bulls, when they're mewing at each other, they absolutely do. And they'll communicate with those mews.
00:46:13
Speaker
And I've gone out and I have... you know, just single mew through my tube. It gives a little bit deeper re resonance. And I've had a mew back, just single mew. And people were like, well, that's cow. Nope, that's a bull. and And gone in and killed bulls just like that, you know, that have done that. So I'm always that oriented. So when I start out, I start out, I'm cast calling. Just think of a person that's working a river, man, just like you do.
00:46:40
Speaker
You're working in that closest hole. And then you're trying to get a little bit further. You're trying to get value out of your calls, but you want to test from close to medium to far. So what I'm doing is, is I'm just cow calling with my mouth, just throwing it in a direction and, and I'm listening.
00:46:57
Speaker
I don't get anything there. Then I'm getting a little louder or I'll do my cow call through my tube. If I don't get anything there. Yeah. Then I'm going to try a location bugle. Cause I'm to throw something out there um because I'm going get the most value out of that call to see if I get a response.
00:47:13
Speaker
But as I'm moving through the woods like that, I am continually cast calling. It's just like you're working a river. So when I get to a new spot that I have a hole close, if i if I come over a ridge and or I'm in thick area or I come to a little bowl, I'm going to do the exact same thing that I'm doing right there. and And most people are are working for that response, but most people are working for a bugle response. They're not listening for other type of responses.
00:47:41
Speaker
they're not They're not listening for that.
00:47:46
Speaker
And that's all you get, right? A lot of guys hear that and they're like, what was that? And they just, you know, keep going on that. Or they're not listening for a mew or they're not listening for raking or they're not listening for branches breaking.
00:48:00
Speaker
Because elk, and that's one thing that I try to teach guys is if all you're doing is hunting for a bugle, then you're going to pass a lot of elk. right? So there's other ways that you can hunt besides that.
00:48:14
Speaker
And, and what happens with that, it has to be like, we use our, what we call scenarios or try to paint a picture of elk doing elk things. But there's certain times that we use that. And for certain reasons that we use that when we've either heard, seen, um or, you know, smelled an elk in some way, or we're seeing close sign, we might try something like that.
00:48:37
Speaker
But I work through the woods, actually almost always trying to sound like a group of cows, calves as I'm moving through. So that if there are any critters out there, they're hearing me and they're moving towards me, just like a D-back would come in, you know, he trying to head off that receiver as they're going.
00:48:55
Speaker
Or I'll do a scenario like we've had... We've had times when nothing is happening. So I will actually be that bull, man. I will be a bull with a group of cows that's heading to bed. And I'm just sounding off doing the cows and just doing like that because I know there are other bulls out there that are listening just like hunters are trying to locate those cows or those herds, then move into them.
00:49:20
Speaker
So I give them a target to come to. I give them a group that's there and I'll actually go to an area and, and work in and just stop and listen at times so that those elk can catch up to me because most people don't realize elk move in elk time.
00:49:36
Speaker
We, we have an ongoing joke with our group. We got two guys on our, in our, in our core, Manano and Luis, and these guys would be hunting. They're both from Venezuela. And,
00:49:49
Speaker
We always laugh because, you know, they would be using my techniques. And every time that they would stop to take a dump in the woods, an elk would get killed. Right? ah Because, you know, it definitely wasn't the Venezuelan smell. Let me just tell you, wasn't that.
00:50:06
Speaker
But what was happening was that they were stopping for a time. And one guy heads off, the other one ends up sitting on a log, waiting for the other dude, you know. And all of a sudden they start hearing...
00:50:18
Speaker
Like, whoa, what is that? And it's elk coming in because the elk had been moving to them the whole time. But because they stopped, the elk had a chance to ah catch up.
00:50:29
Speaker
Right. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm always I'm very aggressive in that way. I'm not aggressive in, you know, trying to find that one bull that wants to fight and just using aggressive tones and stuff like that. I'm aggressive in that. I'm always using language. I'm using elk.
00:50:48
Speaker
ah calls, whether it's cow, calf, or whatever, whether it's a scenario I do, I'm always doing something so elk can know where I'm at and can come to me.
00:51:00
Speaker
I want them to find me, right? and I'll tee you up on a mistake I find with a lot of hunters. I think there's an overemphasis, and I own a gear company, so this ah that does not apply to Tricer.
00:51:14
Speaker
I think there's an overemphasis on gear over practice. Absolutely. And I think the people get so caught up on, I've got to buy a new bow. I got to buy a new rifle, i go elk hunting. And I'm such a big guy of buy tags. Yeah.
00:51:28
Speaker
not gear i've got to have this stuff i mean like you could go out in jeans and hunt elk like it doesn't matter you don't need to have the craziest sitka outfit with the best backpack with you know yes i want you to go buy tricer so i want you to go buy all that stuff it's what we do in this industry and we sell stuff um and yes it'd be more comfortable but how much of that do you see like i feel like the first question is always like what arrow are you shooting Yeah. how head How heavy, how do I need 80 pound draw?
00:51:55
Speaker
Do I need, and people, I'll get killed with 40 pound draws, 50 pound draws all the time. My women, you know what i mean? So let's talk about gear. Yeah. So, and, and this is where me and my crew, yeah I'm kind of the, you know, they kind of laugh at me and they say I'm a different like type of dude. Well, again, I told you I was a teacher coach for 30 years, right? yeah Raising a family.
00:52:16
Speaker
Didn't have all the money for all that stuff, man. No, I'm a teacher. I'm in tennis shoes. I used the same bow for 17 years, double X seventy five s wasp broadheads, fixed three blade, um hunted camo tops that came from Walmart, ate peanut butter and jelly and bologna sandwiches.
00:52:35
Speaker
And I killed 36 elk in 38 years. And it was it had nothing to do with the gear. It had to do with the hunter using the gear as a tool with what you have, man.
00:52:48
Speaker
ah it It has to happen with what's between the ears and what's in your heart. And I truly believe, I'm telling you, Drew, I believe every time I put my hand on my bow and I step into the woods that I'm going to kill an elk.
00:53:06
Speaker
That's how I feel. that's That's the confidence level that I have. That's the belief I have in my skill set. And it doesn't, yeah, I mean, it's great. Like right now, The greatest thing, especially as I've been getting older, you know, having yeah yeah this Merino Lair stuff that I've been using. Dude, that 2-0, I see you wearing that hat.
00:53:27
Speaker
Their 250 hoodie. I own, I wouldn't think about Tri-Sage is I get so much free gear. I have gear from every company industry. That 20250 hoodie is my favorite piece of gear. I live in it.
00:53:38
Speaker
I live in my, my father, my father and my father just bought another one at TAC this weekend. He's like, I bought another one. like He goes, I tried some other brands. They kept falling apart. and He's like that 20250 Merino is the most comfortable piece I own.
00:53:50
Speaker
So it's interesting because, um The 250 on an actual elk hunt and during the bow season, it's a morning thing with me, but I'm not able to wear it when I'm actually moving through. Oh yeah. I don't wear it during the day, but it's like my layer. I'll run I'll run like a 150, the 250. And then like, ah like ah i run like an ambient style jacket or the new go hunt ambient style jacket.
00:54:11
Speaker
And that pretty much gets me through all of elk season. Right. or So I have so one fifty the 150, the 250, and then I wear, I wear a vest. I wear their aptitude vest over top and, With that, my layers are complete, right?
00:54:24
Speaker
Especially in September. Yeah. And New Mexico, right? Yeah. You know, that's like a rain gear, you know, people, I, I, my brother-in-law came out to hunt with me and he purchased his rain gear. I mean, an expensive rain gear suit from Cabela's.
00:54:40
Speaker
um Yeah. Me Cabela's has always been eye candy for me. I could go in there, but I really couldn't buy much most of the time. Right. um I could see all the cool things and then go and look at this and look at that and learn about stuff. But, you know, we're we're out there in the West. We're out here in New Mexico.
00:54:57
Speaker
A rainstorm comes and pounds on us. He's got his pack on the outside. He puts his rain gear on, puts his pack on, is holding his bow. And all his gear is getting wet. His bow is getting wet. You know, his body is staying dry.
00:55:10
Speaker
Me, I pulled out $10 poncho, um put it on yeah put it out, sat down, my pack, my bow, everything under the poncho, put my head down, take a nap for about five, six minutes till the storm blows through.
00:55:24
Speaker
And I'm completely dry, shake it out, roll it up, put it on my pack and I'm going. And now he's got to go through taking everything off. And, you know, so yeah it's, ah it's about use. It's not about cost. It's about efficiency. It's not about cost. It's about what works for you.
00:55:40
Speaker
It's about the hunter. Right. And, and I agree with you. I think I think so many people get so caught up in that, you know, everybody's like, um I don't know, I call it like bow porn, you know. It's like they get so caught up in all of this stuff and and, you know, having to have this or having to have that. And instead of really getting behind their equipment, you know, you take Larry Bird, worst shot in the NBA, you know, as far as his form.
00:56:15
Speaker
But the dude never missed because he did it hundreds of times, man. he nobody but Nobody could stop him. And you get your bow, any bow, get it decently tuned to what you're shooting and get behind it and shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot in different ways from different, you know, different looks from your knees up. Know that weapon and you will be deadly with it.
00:56:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of it is right. Like we could only hunt for a week. but we can buy gear all year long. So it's kind of fun as adults. Like it's fun to buy. It's fun to do it. And I do it. I mean, trust me, I have all the gear, right? it is like I get gear sent to me. My wife told me, she's like, if you get one more backpack, ah we're done. Like no more backpacks. I have, I have backpacks for every company in the industry, right? I'm trying them out and doing it so. I love gear. I mean, I'm, I'm guilty of it, but ah it's, it's the uses. And i I will say that I do think you should be doing some sort of,
00:57:13
Speaker
workout, right? Like you should be working, you should be doing hiking Hills or you should be doing, like ike said, I do like, it's not CrossFit, like a circuit training. You should be doing that. You should be waiting there, but it's not, the it's not the end all right. There's so much more to this rounded out thing.
00:57:26
Speaker
and I don't think you have to be, cause I'm not in like the best shape. I'm in good enough shape to go, go hike Hills. Like I'm not Cameron Haynes, right? Like I'm right. I can go do it. Like I tell you right now, I went and hiked with Cody Rich and those guys are running up at, you know, 8,000, 12,000 foot all the time in Monsanta.
00:57:43
Speaker
And I'm from San Diego and i always get sucking wind. i was getting tired up there because it just, you can't prepare for that when you live, you know, in North Carolina, you can't prepare for 12,000, right? Like we're going to go scout goats next month. And my buddy Ed's like, yeah, we're going to be up about 13,000. I'm like, oh, I'm thinking about it.
00:57:59
Speaker
But what you can do is you can do HIIT workouts, right? Yep. You can do those short, hard, high intensity workouts so that you're improving your recovery time. So it might, it might really hit you hard when you do it, but your recovery is going to be a lot quicker. when you get on the top of that hill there, the animal, you're not going to be there sucking air for five minutes and,
00:58:18
Speaker
Everything going up and down, you're going to recover that much quicker. So there's things yeah you need to mitigate it, right? you could do what um My point is you can do everything you can yeah prepare for the unexpected, right? You can shoot your bow. like I'm a big like believer in like going to shoot tacks, going to shoot 3D archery. Typically, everyone has 3D archery groups in their towns now. like I can shoot 3D archery twice a month in San Diego if I wanted to yeah from the local clubs.
00:58:39
Speaker
go shoot three d archery, go shoot from weird positions, go shoot off the roof of your house, get up there and freak your neighbors out, right? get ah Shoot the roof of your house, shoot whatever you get got to do to shoot, shoot behind things, put things in front of you, get behind the fence, step out, shoot.
00:58:52
Speaker
Like I did the same thing with rifles, right? Like I do a lot of rifle shooting and I, when me and my kids go shoot, it's like your gun sight in. Okay. Now we're not shooting at the range anymore. We're going out in the hills. We're going to find ways, absolutely pick rocks, pick weird positions,
00:59:05
Speaker
shoot off of this, shoot off my tailgate, shoot off of the freak in the back of the side-by-side, just weird, even though we're not going to do that in the field. But, you know, there's different positions to get them to shoot that's not just laying prone because it's like, it's not going to, prone is pretty much not going to happen, right?
00:59:19
Speaker
Yes. With elk hunting, it's going to be, you know or any kind of hunting, it's probably going to be You know you're laying on the ground, yeah you know, when you're mule deer hunting, or for example, you're crunched down. You got to stand up and draw or shoot from your knees, right? You know, elk hunting will be standing up, but it's just, it's not going to be that next to year your house, straight 20 yard shot every single time. You needed to get some weird stuff and just find ways make yourself uncomfortable.
00:59:44
Speaker
Absolutely, man. In fact, you should seek out the uncomfortable because once you've done that, it's like your buddy at that 40 yard shot. the reason that he lost his, you know, lost it out there was he didn't, he didn't get a chance to depend on his range finder. And so there was some guesswork in that right there. And that just made him took his confidence down a little bit on that as well.
01:00:08
Speaker
Right. And, and you just have that unsure mark. You got to make yourself uncomfortable. I tell people like when, You know, me and Chad, my brother-in-law would shoot all the time. We'd play horse just like you would with basketball. Somebody picks a shot, shoots it, and then you got to follow the same thing. You're trying to find things that are weird and difficult and, you know, that take, make you uncomfortable to be able to make those shots. And even trying to squeeze something right next to, you know, where that kill is right next to the size of a tree or something like that, where you're going to whack an arrow.
01:00:39
Speaker
You know, I love, messing with people's heads, you know, like that. they're They're so, instead of focusing on the kill, they're focusing on what they don't want to hit and they end up hitting it, right? Yeah. I mean I love doing like, we'll do one footed stuff a lot. Um, but even like grab a rock and stand on a rock, a little unbalanced rock with one foot.
01:00:58
Speaker
You have one foot on a rock, you know, just something different. Whatever. Put one foot on a frigging step stool. I don't care what it is. Just do get your body different positions when you're shooting your bow or your rifle, whatever you're doing. It don't just shoot from the flat concrete of your backyard. This is just, it doesn't exist. Yeah.
01:01:16
Speaker
it does exist man It does not exist out there, man. There's no flat concrete. There's no benches to shoot from. There's no, it's just not there. yeah And I hope everybody's listening to what you just said, you know, because that is not the reality when you're hunting. And most of the time, those animals are not going to be on, on your contour. They're going to be up, down, right.
01:01:41
Speaker
You know, so um And, and that's the other thing, like I tell people when, when you're trying to gauge, like when you have that bull that's coming in, everybody thinks when they see the side of an animal that is broadside.
01:01:52
Speaker
And I tell them, don't look at the side, look at the front legs. Are you, do those front legs look like one leg? Then you have a broadside critter, right? If you've got one leg that's in front of the other, or that leg is behind the other, you either got a quartering away or quartering two.
01:02:09
Speaker
pay attention to those legs because it will that will be the main way that you be able to tell how that animal is standing and and how extreme that stance is right there some of it's easy to read i mean you got a bull standing you see most of his butt you know when you're seeing some of that shoulder yeah that's absolutely an easy read it's those ones that you think that they're broadside when they're not really they've got a little bit of movement from one side to the other.
01:02:36
Speaker
And so that's really going to help you with your, some of your shot placement. And the other thing is, is guys that shoot 3D and you're trying to shoot that 12 ring, right? When you have that actual animal in front of you, you know, that 12 ring is no longer the spot, especially if they're quartering, you know, if they're quartering away from you,
01:02:57
Speaker
You want to look at the leg on the opposite side, not the leg on the this side. You want to shoot through the animal, right? And that's huge, man. You'd be surprised at how many people end up blowing through just one lung on an animal because they're they're shooting the same spot that they shoot 3d all the time. Right. I was telling, I was, I always joke around. My friends are such, so much better than archery. And I'm always like, yeah, you 12, but I killed it.
01:03:22
Speaker
yeah You 12, but I killed it. You know? Oh man. You know, here's another one. So I feel like I've gotten really good at finding animals, right? Like I can go find an animal from any unit now and get out there through e-scouting, just from doing it enough and even getting in the field. like I kind know where to look for elk, deer, you name it I'm going to find an animal.
01:03:41
Speaker
Right. Um, I was one of my biggest mistakes. And we had this conversation when I was talking with Cody, cause we were in this beautiful meadow and I was just telling him like my biggest mistake. My first time hunting was like, Oh, look at this meadow. It looked, there's gonna be animals in this.
01:03:56
Speaker
Like, and I, and I, you learn that like, whatever looks really good to you, like as like a comfortable, is so far off from where they're going to be. You almost want to go to like, where's the last place I want to go, especially on public land, right? I get it. You're to private. You're going to get a little more of these cool spots.
01:04:14
Speaker
And I feel almost like with big animals, with animals, it's like, where's the last place I'd want to go? That's probably where an elk's going to be, especially out of you when you're rifle hunting. And you've been doing that with, especially when you're hunting. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when you're rifle hunting, you're going to go the last place you want to go, not where you, where you'd want to be.
01:04:31
Speaker
Yeah. And, and, you know, a lot of people, and, and you're exactly right with the rifle hunting, man, especially when you get to that season and those bulls are in recovery mode, you know, they want to find those holes. They want to find those places that nobody else wants to go to.
01:04:45
Speaker
Right. and And, and it works. There are bulls that grow very old because of that. And I think the mistake on the archery side is everybody's always bull minded. They're like,
01:04:56
Speaker
you know, they got cameras out in June and they're looking for bulls and this bull, I got them on my camera. And then they go there and, you know, come September and there's no bulls to be found because, you know, really what you want to be looking for is you want to be looking for those places that the cows want to be, where they want to be where their calves, you know, where they want to bed, where they want to feed.
01:05:17
Speaker
Those are what you're looking for. It's like the field of dreams, you know, find it, you know, build it and they will come. I just watched this movie recently again. i was like, I haven't watched that since high school. I need to watch this. Yeah, was good.
01:05:27
Speaker
Yeah. Such a, but but I, you know, that's the thing i always remember in my head, man, you know, just because that, um, you know, yeah, that we're out to kill a bull, man, think with that, think with that mentality of where the cows are.
01:05:44
Speaker
Find cows, find cows, fish, find the cows, find the bulls. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. yeah That was an awesome pod, man. Um, we always end our pods with a hunt story.
Memorable Hunting Stories
01:05:57
Speaker
i feel like you might have a couple 36 bulls and 38 years or whatever.
01:06:02
Speaker
You might have a couple hunt stories. want to give us a, give us a campfire hunt story. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, man. And really, um, I, I, I've killed a lot of animals and, um, but it seems like the stories for me are, are the ones where,
01:06:20
Speaker
I get to see other people succeed and that really means so much to me, man. And, uh, you know, my, my brother-in-law Leroy Chavez has been my, my lifelong hunting buddy, um, for all these years, he got cancer in 2019, lost his ability to walk. So, um, he's, he's now walking again, but his balance isn't great. So he's not able, this guy, he's 10 years, my senior,
01:06:49
Speaker
Never, ever thought he was because, you know, he was a cross-country runner, actually a Hall of Fame cross-country runner at his university. And he was just always there. And, you know, um Chav has always been that person that is the opposite of me. He's quiet. He's calculating.
01:07:11
Speaker
um He's going to follow me through hell or high water. You know, he's always there as that person I could depend on. And it always seemed like me and Chav would get in situations together, especially, you know, like last day things. And we're actually on a hunt and it was a tough hunt, man. um We only had five days because, you know, I get to hunt the first five parts of the five days of the season because I would then have to go guide. Right.
01:07:40
Speaker
And most people want to hunt the little bit later part. And I've always killed all my elk. Hint, hint, everybody out there in those first 10 days of the season.
01:07:51
Speaker
um And it takes ah a required skill set to do that. But I think if you can kill a silent elk, you can kill any elk. There's something to give you. But um so we are actually on this hunt. It was tough. It was hot. It was dry.
01:08:05
Speaker
We had encounters that here and there. Nothing that panned out for us. And it's the last day of the hunt. We've got the truck packed up. we sleep We were sleeping in the back of the pickup truck.
01:08:16
Speaker
eating bologna and cheese and peanut butter and jelly. And there was one area that was basically an area that everybody was driving by. And and i told Chad, I said, okay, we'll pack up. Let's at least do a morning hunt and go try this one spot. So um we do that. We drive down. We bang the truck down there with everything packed up, grab the bows. We go out.
01:08:40
Speaker
and y'all, this is pre-GPS. This is, you know, you're using maps. This is, um you know, all of that, you know, ah didn't have the packs that you had today, those kinds of things. And we go out and we drop into this one area and I throw a cow call out and I get a response from another cow, man.
01:09:03
Speaker
And then next thing I know, we're here in We're hearing multiples. We're hearing some calf calls. They're moving through. It's this thick, thick oak brush. It's perfect. What I love to hunt in. The thicker, the better for me because that's when things get close and personal.
01:09:16
Speaker
And we start going in. And now as we're going in, we're starting to hear some bull sound off. And mind you, this is only three quarters a mile from where most people camp. And everybody else is driving by this and they're going nuts in here.
01:09:30
Speaker
So we getting in and we're inside the oak brush and we're working and you can see through the oak brush, you can see bodies moving and stuff like that. And I catch something off to my side, chav catches movement and we separate out. Right.
01:09:45
Speaker
And, uh, as we're going through and we're working, I'm just cow calling and I get this bull to start, you know, chuckling at me to join him. Right. And,
01:09:55
Speaker
And I keep working and I cow call and I start rolling some rocks and stuff like that. And I catch this bull coming and he comes looking for me. And sure enough, he comes out. And when they show themselves, they're only at 15 yards, 20 yards at that point.
01:10:10
Speaker
And I drill this bull and the bull doesn't go 40 yards and he's dead. And so I'm like, okay, Chav, man, I start doing my signature double bugle because I've got a bull on the ground.
01:10:25
Speaker
I know we got to get it packed up because we got a full truck right now. So I start double bugling, double bugling. And finally I hear this noise and Chav comes into me and he's like, I said, bro, I've got an elk down. He looks at me and he goes, so do I. oh no.
01:10:45
Speaker
So we had peeled on the same herd. I went to the left. He went to the right. I shoot a bull. He shoots a bull. We have two bulls on the ground. It's about 930 in the morning at that point time.
01:11:00
Speaker
We are a mile from the vehicle. um no Everything's packed away. And I'm like, all right, dude, but we're just going to cut these animals and we're going to hoof them on our shoulder, man. We're going to just carry the meat with us like that.
01:11:17
Speaker
We carried two bulls out eight miles total. Just hauling stuff. and I mean, we looked like a bloody mess. When we came into town, it looked like, you know, we had been in a butcher shop when we got there. But we did not get out of there until almost nine that night, getting all getting those two animals out of there, man.
01:11:44
Speaker
But, you know, the whole key to it was we didn't want to give up. We wanted one last opportunity. And that's all it took. And after...
01:11:55
Speaker
After five days of struggle, all it takes is seconds for things to turn around. and And
Lessons from the Hunt
01:12:03
Speaker
that's the thing that I want people to realize is that, you know, when you're hunting, hunt the hunt.
01:12:10
Speaker
Hunt the hunt because you love the hunt part of it. And understand that it only takes 30 seconds to go from zero to hero. It only takes that 30 seconds for things to have been totally silent to everything blowing up around you.
01:12:27
Speaker
And here we went for all that time. And now after five days of grueling, two guys in the middle of a herd, they're going nuts and end up with two kills after five days of of struggle, man, of just grinding it out.
01:12:42
Speaker
Right. And so. That's what I want the message I want people to understand is that things can change. Don't give up on your focus. Don't give up on the reason. Stay in the moment and try to make it happen.
01:12:55
Speaker
And it can. Absolutely.
Engage with Elk Bros
01:12:57
Speaker
So there's my story. A little lesson with it. That's an awesome story. Man, what a cool podcast.
01:13:06
Speaker
I'm excited for Elk Bros. I'm like probably Elk Bros course because I've got my son has that statewide bull tag during the rut. even though it's with the rifle, I kind of want to take your course and hear guys have going on.
01:13:18
Speaker
How could, how can we take your course? How can we find you guys? How can we support you guys? What what do you got going on? So everything you want to find about us, just go to elkbros.com.
01:13:29
Speaker
um From elkbros.com, you can find Elk Bros Adventures. You can find our podcast. You can find our course. You can find everything right there. You can find our gear store, anything that you want to at And it's E-L-K-B-R-O-S dot com.
01:13:45
Speaker
It's not Elk Brothers. It's Elk Bros, one word. And um the name was not made to be a boys club. The name was to celebrate these years that me and my brother, um i consider Chab my brother, even though we're brother-in-laws.
01:14:03
Speaker
He's more my brother than any blood. um It was to celebrate that and any of the people that had been in my camp for those years up to that. so um If you look at the emblem of elk bros, you're going to see one big ugly guy and a little bit smaller guy. And you can see the hand clap. That's an actual photo of us um on a hill one day. and And that has become our mantra.
01:14:25
Speaker
And now we have um a lot of brothers that have shared camp with us that mean so much to us. And so it's just a tribute to that, right? That's awesome. What's the course cost?
01:14:37
Speaker
um So the course is generally $99, but I've kept it at $75. I kept it at a discount for about $75. You can get it. 40 years of education and the information that you're going to get in that is, yeah. yeah I do it because i am a blue collar guy that has struggled for a lot of years.
01:15:00
Speaker
And I want other people to have the opportunity to do what I've done. So I've kept the price at where I've kept it. That's awesome. I'm going to pay 75 bucks to take this course. How long is the course? um It's as long as what you want it to be.
01:15:14
Speaker
um I've had people, you can fly through the course in the amount of time that you want to and in days, um or you can really get into it. and And there's a lot of things in the course that um are manipulative and will take you to learn that are interactive.
01:15:31
Speaker
And you can go in deep into it or as surface as you want. It's going to depend on the person and what they're looking for. I have some guys that'll go through it once and then they'll actually go back a little bit later and go through it again. It's just like watching a movie. They catch something that they skimmed over that they didn't catch or that really. So here's the cool thing. Once you go through the course and you have the knowledge,
01:15:55
Speaker
Then when you go back and go through it again, because of your knowledge base, there's things that mean something to you even more, you know, when you see it that next time. So it's just going to depend on you, man.
01:16:07
Speaker
Now I'm going to make my kid take it. He's got the tag. Now, what about, um, what if we wanted to go hunting with you guys and do the whole that experience? Is that available or is that? Yes, it is. So, um,
01:16:19
Speaker
We have two options that we have on there. You know, if people want to just go DIY, um we still have the same landowner tags in a unit. If people just want to purchase a tag and go on their own and do that, we have some of that so that they can hunt New Mexico.
01:16:32
Speaker
If they want to hunt with ah and be coached by elk bros, um then they can they can purchase one of our coached hunts. And I'll tell you, um here's the thing about that, Drew, is that So the properties that we have, the one property that we have, are our our neighbor, um at one time, they were charging like $18.5 for a hunt.
01:16:59
Speaker
um ah We charge $9.5, $10.5, depending on how the high demand is. For a landowner tag or not for the not for the guided course? No, no, that's for the entire hunt. So you're getting the tag. With the guide? With the?
01:17:12
Speaker
With the coach, $9.5. Oh, my goodness. That is... ah That is unheard of people. So in New Mexico, you can buy a landowner tag for $15,000 in some places, right? Yeah. A That's why I was thinking, Oh, this is going to be a $20,000 tag.
01:17:27
Speaker
Yeah. So and you get all that experience. You get the core. I'd pay you 10 grand teach me how to Elkhart. That's just, that's awesome. one hundred percent 100%. And now, but here's the thing though, and for me,
01:17:40
Speaker
um and And look, I guided on Vermejo Park where, in fact, our other property, our whole eastern border is Vermejo Park. That is a $20,000 hunt on there for five days.
01:17:51
Speaker
And we're charging $9,500, $10,500, right? so the But for me and my mentality as a teacher coach and what I've had to do, and even now even now I couldn't afford one of our hunts.
01:18:04
Speaker
So for me, I wanted more opportunity. So I kind of... I've looked out there and I looked at some things that were happening. Hunt Wars was a great example of that.
01:18:15
Speaker
Steve Chappelle, what he does, a great example of that. He has that one program. So what I did was in order to ah create opportunity, I created something called the Adventure Club. So for $325, people get, they can become a member of our Adventure Club.
01:18:31
Speaker
And when they become a member, they have access to all of our our success squad coaching materials to my course. They get, we do gear giveaways each month for eight months out of the year.
01:18:44
Speaker
um We have gear discounts. And every time we get 32 members, every 32 members, we take those 32 members and we put them in the draw in our and select one person for one of our $10,000 hunts, a one in 32 chance.
01:19:03
Speaker
So somebody for $325 is not only going to get all of this other value that shoot, you can put in for other States. You can try to put in for other States and for more than that. And if you don't draw your money's gone, it's just blown into the wind. Right.
01:19:19
Speaker
And for that amount lower than some of those States, We're giving them value and a one in 32 chance to draw a $10,000 hunt, a coached hunt with us, right?
01:19:29
Speaker
So now I will tell you, um we also have rifle hunts later in the season that we don't do coach hunts. We do what we call teaching guide hunts. So in other words, I never want anybody that is with an elk bros coach or teaching guide to ever feel they're in the backseat.
01:19:46
Speaker
If minimum, they're going to be my partner on the side. They're going to everything I'm thinking I'm going to include them in the process. They're going to be part of that. They're going to be learning. So we're always raising that level of that. So we have the Elk Bros Adventures coached hunts, and we have the Adventure Club for people that want that opportunity to draw that hunt.
01:20:08
Speaker
Every time we get 32 people, we're drawing a hunt. I don't care if we if all of our hunts are filled up with Adventure Clubbers. um It's a chance of a lifetime. so Nice. And I assume this year is booked out.
01:20:21
Speaker
um This year is not booked out because it's our first year on these private properties. um We have sold out several hunts, but we still have some early season archery that's that's open on on both properties, actually. We have some primetime archery still open on one of our on on there.
01:20:40
Speaker
It seems like the rifle hunts sell out quicker. um I think a lot of people are just learning about what we're doing as far as the archery hunts there. So it's our first time. um our first year. So we still have some openings.
01:20:54
Speaker
Nice, man. That's awesome, man. 9,500 bucks, man. Go on elk this year with elk bros. That is ah steal for the knowledge. The knowledge is worth it, man. Joe, what an awesome pod, man. Let's do it again. Yeah, I would love to do, man.
01:21:08
Speaker
I'd like to
Conclusion and Farewell
01:21:09
Speaker
talk about tricer sometimes. So ah I'll come on and talk about tricer. I didn't talk that much on this one. You're a good talker. So can bring me on your podcast and I'll just talk the whole time. There you go.
01:21:20
Speaker
Talk about Tricer. Let's do something. Thanks, Joe. You bet you, bud. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast. Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on.
01:21:31
Speaker
Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at TricerUSA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com. Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.