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Rare Book Dealer Judy Loto on a Mysterious Engraved Powder Horn
70 Plays8 years ago
Antiques Dealers' Association executive director Judy Loto goes into detail about an antique powder horn that's the apple of her eye. She also has some tips for new collectors.
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Transcript
Preserving Cultural Memory with Antiques
00:00:00
Speaker
For every object that we can't save that gets destroyed somewhere or gets thrown away or gets burnt or gets sold or gets torn apart, you know, the ones that we can preserve that help speak to who we were as a nation are helping us one step at a time maintain the memory of why we are the way we are and who we are and our place in the world.
Introduction to 'Curious Objects' and Judy Loto
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Hello, welcome back to another episode of Curious Objects and the stories behind them.
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Brought to you as always by the magazine Antiques.
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I'm your host, Ben Miller.
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My guest today is a woman I've been really excited to have on the podcast for some time now.
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Her name is Judy Loto.
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You just heard her talking at the start of the episode.
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And so you probably already have a sense of just how passionate she is about antiques.
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Judy is as keyed into the American antiques scene as anyone.
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And she's really driven by a deep commitment to the objects and to what they mean for us and for our culture and for our understanding of our own history.
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So Judy is a dealer in her own right, but she also runs a large trade organization, the Antique Illness Association of America.
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And she's heavily involved in a historical society.
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But I think more than any of those individual occupations, it's fair to call her an antiques evangelist.
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She's motivated by a desire to bring a love and understanding and passion for antiques to everyone in the world.
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That's obviously something that I'm very interested in doing as well.
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And I think some of you are interested in that idea also.
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So I really think that you're going to enjoy the conversation that we had.
00:01:36
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Judy has insights into a lot of different aspects of the world of antiques and collecting.
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She has some good tips for collectors.
Freeman's Auction House Sponsorship
00:01:44
Speaker
And we couldn't very well call ourselves antiques dealers if we didn't fit in a couple of fun stories.
00:01:50
Speaker
So before we dive in, I do want to say a quick word of thanks to our sponsor, America's oldest auction house, Freeman's.
00:01:55
Speaker
Located in Center City, Philadelphia, Freemans has been telling the story of curious objects and collections since 1805.
00:02:01
Speaker
Today, Freemans believes in a unique standard of one-on-one service, and their tradition of excellence has benefited generations of private collectors, institutions, advisors, estates, and museums.
00:02:12
Speaker
After a successful spring season led by a $6 million single owner collection, Freeman's is currently inviting consignments for their fall and winter auctions.
00:02:20
Speaker
Head to freemansauction.com to learn more.
00:02:24
Speaker
That's freemansauction.com.
00:02:27
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Now, without further ado, Judy Loto.
Judy Loto's Personal and Professional Journey
00:02:30
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Judy Loto, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.
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Hi, how are you?
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I'm doing well.
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How are you?
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Not bad.
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Not bad.
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Enjoying spring up here in New Hampshire.
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Now, I want to talk to you about a lot of different things, because you're a woman of many occupations and many talents.
00:02:49
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But I think if listeners know you, they probably know you from the Antique Dealers Association of America.
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You're the executive director there.
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I am.
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So you run the ADA, you organize an antique show with the ADA.
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You are also the director of development for Discover Portsmouth.
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And you're a dealer in your own right.
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And let's see, and you have a family with two daughters.
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And I'm wondering what you do with all your free time.
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I garden and I cook and I hike, actually, if you'd like to know.
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Not much free time out there, but I do try and I, you know, I life is a life is a blessings.
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I know there are some antiques in your family.
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I should say there is an antique dealer in your family.
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But it was not an automatic thing for you to end up as a dealer and as someone so involved in the fabric of antiques in this country.
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How did that come about?
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As usual in a choose-your-own-adventure sort of way.
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It's never a direct path.
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Although I had a lot of influences growing up.
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So my grandmother and my mother both loved antiques and my father loved history.
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So the house that I grew up in was an authentic reproduction of a 17th century Massachusetts house, the Parson Capon house.
Acquiring and Connecting with Antiques
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My parents also were disinclined to take my sister and I to amusement parks and much more inclined to take us to Sturbridge Village, Strawberry Bank, Historic Williamsburg and places like that.
00:04:41
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Of course, yeah.
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Now that's familiar to me.
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I was dragged around to all the museums when I would have rather been doing almost anything else in the world.
00:04:51
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So the premise of this podcast is to talk about curious objects.
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And so, you know, each episode, there's a focal point, which is a particular piece that has some dimension or multiple dimensions of interest around it.
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And I'm...
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for this episode with you um you've suggested an object that's a little bit interesting and sort of out of the out of the norm because it's not a piece that's you know in in the area that you specialize in it's not a piece that you have in your inventory that you're looking to sell but it is a piece that tells a bit of a personal story about you one of the advantages um
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to spending a lot of time with a lot of antique dealers is you get to see a lot of wonderful things.
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So, and, uh, one day it was a Hartford, Connecticut, um, spring antique show.
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I was, uh, chatting with a friend of mine, uh, Brian Cullody, who, a well-known dealer and a former museum curator in his own right.
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Uh,
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about an object that he had in his booth.
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And it was a powder horn, a flattened powder horn.
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And I've always admired powder horns.
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I think that their decoration is wonderful, their purpose.
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So what were they used for and what does one look like?
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So they were used for storing black powder for, well, for weaponry.
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I mean, if you're looking, this was...
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prior to modern firearms.
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So you would have had to pack a charge, pack powder in, pack shot in before firing a weapon, firing a gun.
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So this was an effective way to keep your powder dry.
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And it used a sheep's horn or a ram's horn
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these horns are hollow on the inside and waterproof.
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So they're made of keratin, I believe.
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So it's not ivory.
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It's not bone.
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You can heat it.
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You can shape it.
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It's kind of like fingernails.
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And you can decorate it.
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Exactly.
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So the one that he had that I admired so much, I loved it because I thought the decorations were very different than anything I had seen.
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It's got chamfered edges and it's got a date, 1816,
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But there are wonderful designs on it.
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There's actually a paddle boat with an American flag carved into the top.
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There is a wonderful gambrel roofed house with two chimneys.
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And it wasn't, I think what drew me to this was the engraving on this is not rote engraving.
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It's not something that's, everything looks the same.
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This house is a pretty specific house.
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The chimneys are two different sizes.
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They
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It shows where the chimneys go down in that sort of attic section and how one of them goes sort of around a window.
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There's two L's off the house.
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There are little Windsor chairs that are engraved into each of the L's and in the second floor as well.
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There's just the... So it's a very personal piece.
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It is, yep.
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And it's even signed.
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It says the property of Charles White.
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Charles White?
00:08:16
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Mm-hmm.
00:08:17
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Yeah.
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And do you have any idea who Charles White was?
00:08:21
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Well, so yeah, I've done a little poking around and I haven't gotten anything definitive.
00:08:26
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But it's an ongoing, it's an ongoing search, which, of course, is one of the things that I love about the object, because it doesn't have all of the answers, it leaves some room for some room for question and research and trying to figure out the mystery.
00:08:41
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And so this was, as you said, this was one of the first antiques that you came into possession of by your own effort.
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Why was this the first?
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Why wasn't it a Windsor chair or, you know, a piece of needlework or something else entirely?
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Why do you think it was this?
00:09:03
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Well, so that's a great question.
00:09:07
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Although I enjoy so many of the larger objects out there, I don't always have a place for them.
00:09:16
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They need to be things that I feel like I can live with in my own home, and that means something that can tolerate the
00:09:23
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evidence of children and two dogs and a cat.
00:09:25
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And for me, it was, I loved the date.
00:09:29
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I loved the name on this.
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I loved the mystery to be solved.
00:09:33
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The engraving was terrific because there were some things on there that implied a different region.
00:09:40
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I thought I might be able to use those regional images and pin down a little bit better where this might have come from.
00:09:46
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It was expensive for me at the time and yet not as expensive as some of the other lovely things that are out there on the floor of these wonderful antique shows.
00:09:58
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And honestly, it talked to me in a way that other things did not.
00:10:04
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at that time.
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So it was a stretch for me to pay for it.
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I was able to convince Brian to let me pay it in a couple of installments.
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So that helped me purchase it, which was very kind of him to do.
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And at the end of the day, it was small enough to
00:10:20
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to be part of my home and be enjoyed all of the time, but without being run over by all of the activity in my home.
00:10:29
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Yes.
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Which is, you know, that's very important.
00:10:32
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Well, it is.
00:10:33
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It's great because I can have it out where I can see it and enjoy it.
00:10:37
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And I don't...
00:10:38
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For me, my collection, and I have just a few wonderful things.
00:10:42
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For me, my collection is not Seven Powderhorns.
00:10:45
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For me, there is something about the object, and it's a very eclectic mix, that calls to
The Personal Stories Behind Antiques
00:10:50
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me in some way.
00:10:50
Speaker
So I have a wonderful painted trunk that I purchased from another...
00:10:56
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set of dealers up in Maine, Jewett and Berdan, that is a classic dome top painted trunk.
00:11:04
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But instead of your painting by hand or instead of your design, the sort of design work that many of them have, this one was stenciled.
00:11:14
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And I had never seen one that was stenciled before and I thought the colors were amazing.
00:11:18
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So I tend to like things that appeal to interests of mine and or are slightly off the beaten path to
00:11:27
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so that they have a little mystery that needs to be solved.
00:11:31
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I'm starting to think you're just a collector of misfits.
00:11:34
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Well, and that is, you could make that argument.
00:11:38
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You could make that argument.
00:11:40
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To me, these objects tie me back in a way.
00:11:42
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It's like my opportunity to hold in my own hands a teeny little piece of history that affected the lives of people before me and helps remind me that as I go forward, perhaps there's something in my life that will interest someone else 100 years from now.
00:12:00
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It sounds ridiculous to think that a powder horn or a silver spoon or
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or a piece of furniture can help build that understanding.
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But I really firmly believe that it can.
00:12:10
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It's like that parable of the starfish.
00:12:15
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All these starfish have washed up on the shore.
00:12:17
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Why bother saving that one?
00:12:19
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You're never going to make a dent.
00:12:21
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You're never going to be able to save all of them.
00:12:23
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But I've made a difference to that one.
00:12:26
Speaker
Well put.
00:12:44
Speaker
On that note, let's take a quick break.
00:12:47
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I want to take a minute to thank you all for listening and to thank those of you who have gotten in touch with me.
00:12:53
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I've gotten some really helpful feedback and some good suggestions for people to interview for future episodes.
00:12:59
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I really appreciate that and I'd love to get more of it.
00:13:02
Speaker
So feel free to reach out on email at podcast at themagazineantiques.com.
00:13:08
Speaker
And don't forget to subscribe and rate the podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you are listening right now.
00:13:17
Speaker
That really helps to get the word out to a wider audience and bring more people in to listen to some of these great stories.
00:13:24
Speaker
You can always see pictures of the objects that we're talking about online at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast.
00:13:31
Speaker
I know it can sometimes be difficult to picture exactly what's being described, so I really encourage you to go to the website and see for yourself.
00:13:39
Speaker
Once again, our sponsor for this episode is Freeman's.
00:13:43
Speaker
Freeman's is America's oldest auction house.
00:13:45
Speaker
Located in Center City, Philadelphia, Freeman's has been telling the story of curious objects and collections since 1805.
00:13:52
Speaker
With international experience and comprehensive knowledge of market conditions, the specialists at Freeman's work closely with consignors and collectors to offer unparalleled assistance in the sale and purchase of fine art, furniture, decorative arts, jewelry, books, and more.
00:14:06
Speaker
Freeman's is currently inviting consignments for their fall and winter auctions in such categories as Asian arts, fine jewelry, books, maps and manuscripts, Americana, British and European furniture and decorative arts, as well as 20th century design and American art and Pennsylvania impressionists.
00:14:22
Speaker
Ready to consign?
00:14:23
Speaker
Visit Freeman's online at freemansauction.com to learn more.
00:14:27
Speaker
Music
00:14:37
Speaker
So with a big thank you to Freemans, let's get back to Judy Loto.
Learning and Understanding Antiques
00:14:44
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I want to ask, I want to get into the subject of learning about objects and the process by which you or I or anyone else can dive in, maybe to an area where we're unfamiliar, maybe to an area where we are familiar, and
00:15:04
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and figure out what we can learn and what we'd like to learn and what would really enhance our understanding and enjoyment of an object.
00:15:14
Speaker
For me, I'm a silver dealer and everything that I know about silver, I learned on the job.
00:15:22
Speaker
It was essentially an apprenticeship for me.
00:15:26
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So I just learned by looking at object after object after object and making guesses about them and getting it all wrong over and over and over again and gradually starting to get a thing right here or there and
00:15:41
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It's a slow process, but, you know, that's my effort to learn about just one area.
00:15:48
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And even after years of work and of study, I feel that there's so much I don't know.
00:15:56
Speaker
You know, I have a memory from early in my antique, my professional antique days, which has haunted me.
00:16:08
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And I want your take on this.
00:16:10
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So I went up to an estate sale because our firm had been tipped off to the fact that the sale was going to include a piece of very rare early American silver, and we wanted to buy it.
00:16:26
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So I went up.
00:16:28
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This was a little estate in the middle of the woods up in the Hudson Valley.
00:16:33
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And I drove through the night because I had to be there at 3 in the morning to be first in line to run into the house as soon as they opened the door so that I could make sure that I got to this piece before anybody else did.
00:16:47
Speaker
So I slept for two hours in the car and then I stood in line for six hours.
00:16:53
Speaker
It was really...
00:16:53
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Classic.
00:16:55
Speaker
It was punishing.
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah, I hadn't known really what I was getting myself into.
00:16:59
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I was just a few months into the job at this point.
00:17:01
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And everything went smoothly.
00:17:04
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I went in, I got the piece.
00:17:06
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I took a look around the house to see if there was anything else that might be of interest.
00:17:12
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And then I left feeling very pleased with myself for having acquired this rare and important thing.
00:17:20
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Well, later that day, I got a call from a fellow who I had met there.
00:17:25
Speaker
He said, Ben, he said, did you happen to see that mahogany sideboard in the living room?
00:17:33
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And I said, well, yeah, now that you mention it, I think I do remember that.
00:17:38
Speaker
And he said, did you know that there was a fellow there at the sale who walked in, bought that sideboard and walked out?
00:17:47
Speaker
And he is a dealer in early American furniture and particularly specializing in Duncan Fife.
00:17:54
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:17:57
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And he said that sideboard was a mint condition Duncan Fife sideboard with the original bill of sale in one of the drawers.
00:18:09
Speaker
Wow.
00:18:09
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Wow.
00:18:10
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So this is a, you know, God only knows what it's worth, a third of a million dollars.
00:18:16
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I don't know.
00:18:17
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But it was a lot of money.
00:18:18
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And it made me think, you know, I walked right past it.
00:18:22
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And I had no idea.
00:18:24
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And so suddenly I didn't feel quite so pleased about how my day had gone.
00:18:30
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But it made me wonder, you know, I mean, it gave me this craving.
00:18:33
Speaker
It was I think it was an important experience for me because early in my antiques career, it gave me the sense that knowledge is power.
00:18:41
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Yes.
00:18:41
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Yes.
00:18:43
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Like so many things in life, knowledge is power.
00:18:45
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Yeah.
00:18:46
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Well, exactly.
00:18:46
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Exactly.
00:18:47
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But I think.
00:18:49
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it's also overwhelming to realize there's so many different types of objects out there.
00:18:54
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There's so much knowledge that I would need to acquire to be prepared to do that across a variety of different fields.
00:19:00
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And so I'm wondering, you know, does it pay to learn a little bit about everything?
00:19:05
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You know, or by contrast, you know, is a little knowledge a dangerous thing?
00:19:08
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Can you talk yourself into thinking you know more about something than you really do and get yourself into trouble that way?
00:19:16
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What's your take on that?
00:19:20
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Well, you know what?
00:19:22
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I think that your story is very typical of people who are starting out in the business.
00:19:32
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It takes a long time to learn about American decorative arts in general.
00:19:39
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I was very fortunate in that I had astounding teachers who had touched thousands of objects.
00:19:50
Speaker
and were able to pass along their information in incredibly focused ways.
00:19:55
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And I was working with a collection that had been created, put together by Henry Francis DuPont, one of the largest and most prolific collectors of American decorative arts out there.
00:20:07
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So it gave students in that program an opportunity to look at
00:20:14
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many, many, many things, many examples all at once.
00:20:18
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And not just the examples, but to look at, to learn about how they were created and how that tradition had passed down and to look at the examples themselves and then to be able to discern from there the sort of good, better, best, if I can borrow a phrase from Albert Sack, of those objects.
00:20:39
Speaker
But I have to say, you know, having walked through that house...
00:20:44
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I would think the two or three years of your program would hardly be enough to scratch the surface of what's there.
00:20:52
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Well, and that's true.
00:20:54
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Having said that, as a book dealer for many years, I can tell you that the more you look at, the more you touch, the more objects you can get your hands on, the more people you can talk to who are educated in their fields, and frankly, the more books that you read on the subject, the more you can talk to.
00:21:09
Speaker
the faster you're going to gain that knowledge.
00:21:11
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And in a broad sense too.
00:21:13
Speaker
You're gonna learn about style periods and style periods, for instance, span all different kinds of material, not just silver, not just furniture.
00:21:19
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Sure, sure.
00:21:20
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There's some horizontal.
00:21:21
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There's a lot of carry over there.
00:21:23
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There's a lot of horizontal understanding that happens.
00:21:25
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So how much of this kind of connoisseurial knowledge is written in books versus how much is locked up in the minds of dealers and curators and collectors who maybe pass it on through oral tradition?
00:21:41
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Well, I'd say probably, in my opinion, 50-50.
00:21:44
Speaker
You are going to absolutely find people out there who do not have the opportunity or the benefit of living here on the eastern seaboard, for instance, where history is so steeped in almost everything we do and see.
00:21:59
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And we're surrounded by so many examples of wonderful dealers and antique shows and such, right?
00:22:08
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Museums.
00:22:09
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So you will absolutely find what I like to refer to as armchair authorities who live in other parts of the country who have never seen these things but for whatever reason have developed a love of them and have read every book on the subject.
00:22:24
Speaker
So that makes them steeped in a certain level of knowledge, academic knowledge about something, but they've never been able to hold the material in their hands.
00:22:33
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And I can't tell you how many dealers out there who have picked up maybe two books in their life
00:22:40
Speaker
really haven't read much but but they've seen a lot everything they have gone out of their way to seek out examples and museums and and stores and collections and whatever you know what have you and they are phenomenally knowledgeable in a different way it's really hard to say which one is better uh from a from a decorative arts standpoint i can tell you that
00:23:04
Speaker
the argument is going to be that the person who handles the objects is going to know more in general because they're going to understand the nuances that make something fantastic in a way that an armchair scholar cannot.
00:23:18
Speaker
But the armchair scholar is going to be likely steeped in a broader history and understand why, the why of the objects in a way that the person handling them might not.
00:23:31
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You know, for every object that was created, there's a why.
00:23:35
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It had a purpose.
00:23:37
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These objects had a purpose.
00:23:38
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There was a context.
00:23:40
Speaker
There's a reason that it was created the way it was and designed the way it is and used the way it was supposed to be used.
00:23:47
Speaker
And that the armchair connoisseur is going to know that information more thoroughly than someone who's handled the objects generally.
00:23:55
Speaker
So ideally, you've got the best dealers, the best collectors,
00:24:00
Speaker
The best curators are the ones who have made an effort to handle the objects and learn about the context as well.
00:24:07
Speaker
It gives them a much, much broader picture.
00:24:11
Speaker
So you're telling me I just have to do everything.
00:24:14
Speaker
Sadly, I think your education is going to be ongoing for many years yet.
00:24:18
Speaker
And the library you will just have to build so that, you know, you're...
00:24:25
Speaker
you have to come to terms with the fact that your home will be filled with furniture made of stacked books on your favorite level.
00:24:33
Speaker
It's a different kind of antique chair.
Engaging New Collectors with Antiques
00:24:38
Speaker
What's an interesting approach that you've seen a dealer use or an organization or an institution use to try to build a bridge to new collectors?
00:24:50
Speaker
Well, um, and, and, or you could also give me the other side of that, which is what is an embarrassing and, and cringeworthy effort that you've seen to try and, you know, reach out to young collectors.
00:25:05
Speaker
So I think, I think that's a great question.
00:25:09
Speaker
Um, and it's sort of two, two different, um, there's two different answers there.
00:25:15
Speaker
I think that one of the best and easiest ways to reach out to new collectors, if one is playing a very long game in the field, is to make sure that we bring history and the objects of history effectively to our children, to youth.
00:25:37
Speaker
I think that
00:25:38
Speaker
All of us with a vested interest in making sure that our history is not lost or forgotten need to put together a concerted effort to do the same with history and with decorative arts.
00:25:50
Speaker
And that is museums.
00:25:52
Speaker
It is collectors.
00:25:53
Speaker
It is dealers.
00:25:54
Speaker
It is auction houses.
00:25:55
Speaker
It is everybody.
00:25:57
Speaker
Who wants the world to understand that if you don't understand where you've been, you can't possibly move forward with an educated eye, right?
00:26:09
Speaker
I think in museums, we have to remember that it doesn't matter how beautiful it is if it's behind glass, if it's behind plexi, if it's behind walls and stanchions and barriers and there are guards, the public is going to feel a real serious level of disconnect.
00:26:27
Speaker
It's going to be too special, too fancy, too something for them to feel a personal connection to it.
00:26:35
Speaker
And that's a problem.
00:26:37
Speaker
and I get why we have those security measures,
00:26:40
Speaker
But the disconnect that the public feels is one that has really long-term ramifications.
00:26:46
Speaker
It's one of the really interesting differences between museums and shops is that the shop is, in a sense, it's more cloistered.
00:26:55
Speaker
Not everybody gets to see everything or certainly own everything.
00:26:59
Speaker
But on the other hand, you can walk into our shop and pick up a 15th century spoon and hold it in your hand.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yep.
00:27:08
Speaker
And that's a really awesome experience.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:12
Speaker
Well, and that's, and that's the catch 22, isn't it?
00:27:15
Speaker
Because museums can take almost anything and, and, and,
00:27:20
Speaker
put a spotlight on it and bring it to life, right?
00:27:23
Speaker
Put it on a pedestal, put a wonderful label with it, put a spotlight on it and draw attention to it in a way that someone might not have paid attention otherwise.
00:27:32
Speaker
So it is a tough thing that both museums and dealers have to figure out how to deal with, how to bring things to light and yet how to keep them safe.
00:27:45
Speaker
you know, how to help people have a personal collection or connection, excuse me, with things.
00:27:53
Speaker
And yet, how to educate in a way that doesn't diminish the object itself so that we can continue to tell its story for a long time to come.
00:28:04
Speaker
What's a book that you would recommend for listeners that's just like a super fun read about some subset of the world of antiques?
00:28:17
Speaker
Well, so I have a couple.
00:28:24
Speaker
One of the still today finest books that was ever put out there on how to take a look at objects was the very, very famous Albert Sack.
00:28:36
Speaker
He did a book called...
00:28:38
Speaker
The fine points of furniture, affectionately known by everybody as good, better, best.
00:28:42
Speaker
Good, better, best.
00:28:44
Speaker
But the premise of the book was really terrific.
00:28:46
Speaker
I think that it took objects and it showed people how to look at them in ways that broke it down.
00:28:54
Speaker
It was really, really not intimidating.
00:28:57
Speaker
You looked at three objects.
00:29:00
Speaker
This one was good.
00:29:01
Speaker
This one's better.
00:29:02
Speaker
And this one's the best example.
00:29:05
Speaker
And the pictures were terrific.
00:29:06
Speaker
And there was a wonderful, really sort of brief description on what the difference was and what made something better or best.
00:29:14
Speaker
So you as the person could be like, oh, okay, totally get it.
00:29:18
Speaker
So before, so this looked to me like three clocks, right?
00:29:23
Speaker
And these all look like tall case clocks, grandfather clocks.
00:29:26
Speaker
I don't know.
00:29:26
Speaker
One of them looks just as interesting as the other.
00:29:29
Speaker
But this really put those examples next to each other and really laid out why one was better than the other.
00:29:35
Speaker
And for me, of course, one of my absolute favorite books that really got me into decorative arts in the context was Our Own Snug Fireside by Jane Nylander.
00:29:45
Speaker
I don't know this one.
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's really good.
00:29:48
Speaker
Well, I love, again, the context of the objects, not just learning about the connoisseurship, not just looking at how they're made or what it is they say about who used them or owned them, but how those objects were used in daily life.
00:29:59
Speaker
Because to me, that's the thread that really...
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:30:04
Speaker
keeps me connected to the past even today.
00:30:06
Speaker
And I said it earlier, we've all got to eat, we all sleep, we all sit, we all entertain ourselves, we all have places we have to store things in.
00:30:17
Speaker
And so did people 100, 200, 300 years ago, and I presume we're going to need those same things in the future.
00:30:23
Speaker
So our own snug fireside really focused on images of the New England home.
00:30:29
Speaker
Before I let you go, I just want to ask if you have any other, any antique stories that you like to tell, any fun experiences, any horror stories?
00:30:40
Speaker
Sure.
00:30:43
Speaker
People collect things that I, frankly, didn't even know existed.
00:30:47
Speaker
Oh, gosh.
00:30:49
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:30:50
Speaker
What's the weirdest thing you saw someone collecting?
00:30:53
Speaker
One of the funnest collections that I ever saw was a collection of ladies' shoe heels.
00:31:03
Speaker
Not the whole shoe.
00:31:04
Speaker
Nope.
00:31:05
Speaker
Just heels.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
That sounds like a sexual fetish.
00:31:16
Speaker
I'm sorry, I realize this is a strictly academic interest.
00:31:22
Speaker
This is a PG show, right?
00:31:25
Speaker
So far it has been.
00:31:27
Speaker
So it was this wonderful collection and these collectors had built this special display case into a wall and had the ability to turn these lights on and it was these shelves of
00:31:43
Speaker
heels for women's shoes.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I was a little blown away that such a thing could even exist and asked questions about it.
00:31:50
Speaker
And of course, I am by no means an authority, but the explanation was essentially that in the mid-late 19th century, early 20th century, very, very high-end shoes were made by hand.
00:32:04
Speaker
They were made to order.
00:32:06
Speaker
And heels were their own
00:32:09
Speaker
So the heels were made separately and they were stacked wood and cork and then they were wrapped and decorated.
00:32:16
Speaker
So women, and as with all fashion things, I assume that this trend started in France.
00:32:23
Speaker
In Paris, women would purchase the heels and then have the shoes made to incorporate the heels.
00:32:32
Speaker
And these heels would blow your mind.
00:32:34
Speaker
They were amazing.
00:32:36
Speaker
They were gorgeous.
00:32:37
Speaker
I mean, just gorgeous.
00:32:39
Speaker
The shape, the design, they were sexy.
00:32:42
Speaker
They were svelte.
00:32:44
Speaker
They were sparkly or subtle or, you know, the craftsmanship that went into these women's shoe heels would blow your socks off.
00:32:55
Speaker
No kidding.
00:32:56
Speaker
Well, I think I'll leave it there.
00:32:59
Speaker
Judy Lota, thank you again so much.
00:33:01
Speaker
This has been a real pleasure.
00:33:03
Speaker
My pleasure.
00:33:04
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:33:14
Speaker
All right, that about wraps things up for today.
00:33:17
Speaker
Thanks again for listening.
00:33:18
Speaker
I really hope you took something away from that.
00:33:20
Speaker
As always, don't forget to subscribe, tell your friends, spread the word, and get in touch with me at podcast at themagazineantiques.com.
00:33:28
Speaker
Today's episode was produced and edited by Sammy Delati.
00:33:31
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit, and I'm your host, Ben Miller.